] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 1, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Hi everyone! I had some personal problems last night, so I can only send a partial Digest for today, and I'll have to append the rest of today's message to tomorrow's Digest...Sorry for the inconvenience! -- Dave ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:02:20 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 I second Bill Wright's enquiry. I've been approached by a lady interested in developing a program for teaching English as a second language, based on the Wizard of Oz. I remember that Jane was looking into lesson plans for one of the centennial's projects. Anything Bill or I could pass on to the teachers who contacted us? |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 05:49:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 > From: "W. R. Wright" > > I have received an inquiry from a third grade teacher who wants to use the > Wizard of Oz as the text for a lit teaching unit. She wants to know if > there is an available teaching unit at this level using the WOZ. If so, how > would she go about getting a copy. Any teachers out there in the Digest > that can answer this? If there is no teaching unit, this might make a nice > project for the IWOC. I believe Jane is already working on such a project. And in the latest edition of "The Oz Collector," Books of Wonder lists a book entitled "Fantasy Literature in the Classroom, Strategies for Reading, Writing and Responding" by Monica Edinger, which includes sixteen pages on using "The Wizard of Oz" in the classroom. It's probably available from other bookstores as well, but it probably has to be special ordered. > From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) > Subject: various > > Sorry not to have replied sooner, but I was at Quadling Convention this > weekend... Full report, please! > From: CurtTofOZ@aol.com > Subject: OZFest > > For all of the world that would be of interest for the upcoming OZFest > in Chittenango, I am proud that we have a Web Page dedicated to our Fest that > gives all of the events that will be going on for the weekend. What's the URL for the Web Page? I can link it to my page. Everyone, you did catch the brief Oz reference on "Star Trek: Voyager" last night, didn't you? --Eric Gjovaag ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:01:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Bill W: This teacher may be able to use _The Annotated Wizard of Oz_ as a teaching aid, but I beleive it is no longer in print. On Ozma/Tip: I can't say anything regarding this marriage in _Seven Blue Mountains_ without giving away a very interesting plot device, but it is kosher. The thread a couple months ago about the real Ozma (the fairy) and the "other Ozma" as Pastorias daughter was, as Dave Hardenbrook said, just a weird theory by Aaron that, IMHO, is not very realistic. Stephen Teller: Thanks for the info. I too believe that _Murder_ took place in 1956. Originally, I was going to put it in 1959, but that gave Chris conniptions, as this was two years after Snow's death. Let me second your appraisal of _Disenchanted Princess_. If you to my Web Page and look at reviews of Buckethead Books, you will see that I also loved this story. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones It's high price has been mentioned, but if there ever was a book that was worth $25.00, it's this one. ********** CRUCIAL PLOT INFO FOR DISENCHANTED PRINCESS ********** It is necessarily true that these two books conflict. When Ozma was transformed into a boy (and the other thing that happened at the same time...), a new persona may have been created in the person of Ozma/Tip. This persona/spirit was submerged, but not eliminated, at the end of _Land_, when Ozma was restored. Therefore, the Tip that we met in _Murder_ was not the real Tippetarius, but instead a carbon copy, or a "ghost image". If true, this means that there may also be a ghost image of Amalea around... ********** END OF SPOILER FOR DISENCHANTED PRINCESS ********** The Ozzy Digest archives are now available, month-by-month up to the end of April. Here are the file sizes: December 1995 295,882 January 1996 484,257 February 1996 911,170 March 1996 1,141,645 April 1996 813,651 If anyone wants one or more of these, please e-mail me privately at TJONES@CSI.COMPUSERVE.COM --Tyler Jones ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:53:52 +0100 From: smcguire@MIT.EDU (Scott McGuire) Subject: MGM Wizard of Oz movie on CBS May 10 Hi all, People were wondering when the MGM Wizard of Oz movie is going to be (or was) broadcast on TV. I don't know when it was last broadcast, but according to _The Boston Globe_, CBS is going to show it (nationally in the US) on Friday May 10, just a couple of weeks from now. --Scott McGuire / smcguire@mit.edu ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 15:54:44 +0000 (CDT) From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 In Seven Blue Mountains Vol.I Omza does not appear. However, following the logic of that book there is nothing to prevent Ozma from marrying Tippetarius. Actually they do meet in volume II, but that may not see publication for a while. Are Pendexter's "Oz and the Three Witches" and Abbott's "How the Wizard Came to Oz" compatible? Can they both be fit into one HACC? Of course they could if you believe that the Wizard had a way to cheat on Glinda's magic pearl truth detector, but that would be cheating. SJT ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 19:03:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The HI/RCC 1) Tyler, thanks for the offer (assuming it works). Don't worry about compilation. I've already done that. Included below is the current version: --- The Historically Inaccurate/Rejected Chronological Chain of Oz Compiled by Aaron Solomon Adelman (adelman@yu1.yu.edu) Universe II: March Laumer's Oz (Baum-Thompson-Neill-Consistent) ???? The Good Witch of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? An Orphan in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1920 The Green Dolphin of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? Other Lands than Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1945 The Magic Mirror of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press 1947 The Frogman of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? Aunt Em and Uncle Henry in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? The Ten Woodmen of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? The Careless Kangaroo of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? The Charmed Gardens of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? A Fairy Queen in Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? The Umbrellas of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? The Crown of Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press ???? A Farewell to Oz March Laumer Vanitas Press Universe III: Oz among Other Fictional Worlds (Baum-Thompson-Quasi-Consist= ent) ???? "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" (in The Enchanter Reborn) L. Sprague de Camp and Christopher Stasheff Universe IV: Aaron Solomon Adelman's Absurd Oz 1996 The Evil Author of Oz Aaron Solomon Adelman Contact the author at adelman@yu1.yu.edu for a copy Universe V: Marcus Mebes's Absurd Oz ???? Radioactive Teddy Bear from Hell Destroys Oz Marcus Mebes and Peter Sandbothe Universe VI: Oz According to Some People Who Don't Know Dorothy Eventually= Went to Live in Oz (FF-Inconsistent) ???? Dorothy Returns to Oz Shawn Billman, et. al. Buckethead Universe VII: Alexander Volkov's Magic Land (FF-Inconsistent) 1899 The Wizard of the Emerald City Alexander Volkov Included in Tales of Magic Land I (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) 1900 Urfin Jus and his Wooden Soldiers Alexander Volkov The Wooden Soldiers of Oz (March Laumer, trans.) Included in Tales of Magic Land I (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) 1901 Seven Kings of the Underground Alexander Volkov The Underground Kings of Oz (Opium Books) Included in Tales of Magic Land II (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) 1902? The Fire God of the Marranes Alexander Volkov Included in Tales of Magic Land II (Peter L. Blystone, trans., Red Branch Press) 1903? The Yellow Fog Alexander Volkov = A Yellow Fog over Oz (Chris Dulabone, trans., Buckethead) 1904? The Secret of the Forgotten Castle Alexander Volkov = The Forgotten Castle of Oz (Chris Dulabone, adaptor, Buckethead) 1905? The Emerald Rain Yuri Koznitchov Not translated from Russian to English yet. Universe VIII: Phillip Jose Farmer's Oz (FF-Inconsistent) 1923 A Barnstormer in Oz Phillip Jose Farmer Universe IX: Gregory Maguire's Oz (FF-Inconsistent) ???? Wicked: the Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West Gregory Maguire Regan Books/HarperCollins Universe X: Thomas L. Tedrow's Oz (FF-Inconsistent) ???? Dorothy--Return to Oz Thomas L. Tedrow Universe XI: World as Myth (FF-Quasi-Consistent) 2010 The Number of the Beast Robert Heinlein Universe XII: Another Version of Oz ???? Seven Day Magic Edward Eager Universe XIII: The Stupid Psychologist's Oz 1899 Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz ? --- 2) Stephen, what happens to Tip according to A Murder in Oz? 3) On the Two-Ozmas theory: Oh, no! Not that again! I am NOT going to edit The Woozy of Oz to agree with that. That kills so much ammo in arguements and a lot of motivation, and besides that theory has one flaw: Why is the Lurlinide Ozma ruling Oz? She's not of the royal family, and she was never elected by the people (OK, at least not until Jenny Jump came to Oz). Why should she get the throne? 4) Got Mr. Tinker in Oz, Dorothy and the Magic Belt, and Dorothy and the Seven-Leafed Clover today through ILL. ***ENTER POSSIBLE SPOILER MODE*** Mr. Tinker in Oz: Ezra P. Tinker must be incredibly stupid to think that= Tik-Tok's warranty had run out, not being able to tell that his watch was= running so fast that it recorded that 1,000 years had gone by when less than a century had actually past. This book also gives magical objects an incredible amount of foresight which is not passed onto their owner, has no time pass between when Dorothy leaves and when she returns home, and has such psychologically incredible feats as someone standing by a bog for decades instead of giving up trying to cross it and go home, and everyone in the Emerald City forgetting how to laugh. Also, this book has the historical problem of Mr. Tinker taking up residence in the palace as a royal inventor at the end of the book, which makes one wonder= how come he never showed up again. (Missed his friends on the Moon and moved back there?) Dorothy and the Seven-Leaf Clover: Since when was the Wicked Witch of the West a transformational witch? If she could have transformed people,= wouldn't she have used such a power against Dorothy and company instead of sending wolves, bees, crows, and flying monkeys after them? E.g., Bastinda: Ha! Now I've changed them all into silly putty, I can take those shoes at my leisure. Again, we have the no-time journey problem. Dorothy and the Magic Belt: Finally a story in which the elusive Dr. Nikidik appears (much to Barry's chagrin). Unfortunately, this book creates more historical problems than the other two. First, it gives Dr.= Nikidik a deaging powder. Where he got this, I don't know, because the Powder of Youth that Mombi gave to Dr. Pipt was a fake. Perhaps Pipt knew that Nikidik had some of the real stuff, but the latter refused to give him any, resulting in the desperate Pipt being tricked by Mombi. Secondly, this powder acts inconsistently; on living creatures it reverts= them to earlier versions of themselves, but it makes Tik-Tok literally run backwards instead of reverting him to an earlier state. (The misuse of this powder is done by Nikidik the Younger, son of Dr. Nikidik.) Thirdly, Nikidik the Younger wishes 30 people into existence, but unlike all other artifical people in the Oz universe, these are little more than boring automatons. Fourthly, at the end of the story, Nikidik the Younger and Mombi are deaged into infants, which Dr. Nikidik promises to raise himself into hopefully better people. This is seriously problematic, as Mombi shows up again about 20 years later in The Lost King of Oz as an old woman. Sixthly, Dorothy is whisked away to= Oz right before Aunt Em and Uncle Henry's eyes and a note is sent to them. This demonstrates that the author is truly ignorant of Oz, as everyone on this group (hopefully) knows that until Aunt Em and Uncle Henry come to Oz in The Emerald City of Oz, not only do they not believe in Oz's existence, they don't have any proof it exists. Tyler, shall I just put this book into the HI/RCC where it belongs? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ============================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 2, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:23:10 -0400 From: CurtTofOZ@aol.com Hi again Dave, In re-reading the note I sent, I wish to elaborate. I told you that I print the Digest and pass it around. This is the truth. I am among many (2 dozen) board members in the Chittenango Foundation, and we wish to think that we know a lot about L.Frank Baum and all of his works. When I first printed and showed the members the Digest, they were really aghast. No one would have believed that elsewhere in the world, ordinary people would find his works so appealing and noteworthy to study in so much detail. Yes, we were all brought up in a closet here. There is 6,000 people in our village, and L.Frank Baum was born here, and that gave us the right to assume that we were the only ones that would ever be interested, right. Well, we see things a little differently now, don't we. My wife and I have made it to 2 of the last 3 Munchkin Conventions in Wilmington, and have a taste of what others think of OZ. It will never cease to impress me, though, and I will continue to try and not think that I know all there is to know about Baum & his works. I am trying to gather all of the genealogy on the Baum family that I can get, so that I can house it in the future museum, which will be called "The L.Frank Baum-OZ Museum, Inc.", and has already been chartered here in New York State. So, If you find someone that has family history, please put them in contact with me, Thank you for your time, keep up the good work, it's appreciated. Curt of OZ ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:07:05 -0400 (EDT) From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 Tyler: The Mego Emerald City Playset in mint condition should sell from $125-$250 depending on what part of the country you are in. Out here in New Jersey it usually sells at the higher end of that scale. It is important to note that the condition of the box is very important. Even if all the pieces are there and in mint condition if the box shows alot of wear it could hurt the price dramatically since there are many Mego sets available. If the box is missing it should get between $75-$100 if all pieces are mint. Chris Warkala ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:30:33 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi again! A very hectic time for me, since it turns out I'll be away two weekends in a row, and very busy in between. (Still, I'll be in New York next weekend, and will try to visit Books of Wonder while I'm there.) So there're a lot of Digests, perhaps fortunately rather short ones, to get caught up on... John Kennedy wrote: <> Traces of this still survive, in references to "sweetmeat" and the "meat" of a nut, neither of which are animal flesh. David Hulan wrote: <> Not one of those things I like to think of too closely, since at least this tribe was there in the first place because of Ozma... (Still, it was a small tribe, and those particular Gypsies might have been able to survive. Might make an interesting book to have one of their descendants return to Oz.) <> Arthur Conan Doyle had Sherlock Holmes refer to a 14-year-old as "a little girl" in "The Boscombe Valley Mystery," and anything that's good enough for Sherlock Holmes is good enough for me... <> Well, Jon L. Breen had a short story published in one of Ellery Queen's anthologies in which Dorothy made a flight to Oz with an early pilot, but that was after DOTWIZ, since the Wizard was already back in Oz (in fact, he solved a very well- plotted mystery). Possibly the message was passed on when the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, Jack Pumpkinhead, the Wogglebug, and the Gump visited Oz in "Queer Visitors from the Marvelous Land of Oz?" (Presumably that took place after OZMA, in which Dorothy hadn't yet heard of the last three personages.) Tyler Jones wrote: <> Well, I haven't had a chance to read THE GARDENER'S BOY OF OZ, but there've been at least two claimants to the title of "the Wicked Witch of the South" (in Shanower's ENCHANTED APPLES and Payes' WICKED WITCH). Payes' Sindella clearly couldn't have been an assistant of Blinkie (who no doubt claimed the title herself before she was disenchanted), but Shanower's may well have been. <> Any random number is bound to appear under certain circumstances...47 in particular is something of an in-joke in certain parts of comic book fandom, because the Legion of Super-Heroes first appeared in ADVENTURE COMICS #247. Also, I suspect prime numbers tend to be more noticeable, perhaps even funnier, than composite ones, since they're less likely to be deliberately chosen for specific reasons than more divisible numbers like 48 or 72 or 100. It would've been perfect if there'd been 47 states when ZIXI was written, but it's off by one: there were only 45. Oklahoma would soon make it 46 (which event was the subject of what I've heard was the first musical to break the record of THE WIZARD OF OZ), but there were 47 states for less than a month: New Mexico and Arizona joined less than a month apart: conjoined even more than the last two admissions my own generation remembers: Alaska and Hawaii. (What this has to do with Oz I don't know, unless it added the new territories Captain Salt discovered on an equal basis with the Munchkin, Quadling, Winkie, and Gillikin countries...) <> I'm anxious to read it! (If nobody else has it in print, why doesn't the IWOC publish it? Then they'll have a perfect record of publishing new Oz books by ALL the post-Baum FF writers!) Aaron Adelman wrote: <> It's been done. By Robert A. Heinlein in "All You Zombies." So we should be thankful that, whatever else he did to the Oz characters in THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST, he didn't do THAT... AOL seems to be having trouble again! Let's hope this gets through. Rich Morrissey ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 14:07:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Tyler >Bear: I won't rebut David Hulans "meat-heads" comment, as I save my political gripings for other sites. Please speak more plainly - is this comment, criticism, caution, etc.? I thought I handled this very sauvely and debonairly. :) Stephen J. Teller - For the record I have read "Wicked" and I hope the Bugle does not review it. All it can do is create interest in it. IMO ugly things should be ignored as much as possible. Who wrote "Our Landlady," and what is the subject? Regards, Bear (:<) ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 15:12:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Bizarre Theories in Oz 1) Uh, Tyler, I did not originate the Two-Ozmas theory. I don't even accept it. My own bizarre theory (now officially a malicious lie in The Woozy of Oz) is that Mombi was Pastoria's wife.=20 2) Can anyone please tell me Volkov's name for the Good Witch of the North? 3) Tyler and Chris, are books in the HACC dated by when they begin or when they end? I'd like to be consistent in the HI/RCC and it means the difference between dating Wicked at 1859 and dating it at 1899. 4) Stephen, Oz and the Three Witches and How the Wizard Came to Oz are mutually incompatible, as they give different versions of how the Wizard was able to convince the Wicked Witches of the East and West of his powers and hence get them to leave him alone. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 16:03:46 +0000 (CDT) From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-01-96 Aaron S. Adelman: ................PLOT SPOILER ALERT......................... In "A Murder in Oz" the spirit of Tip remains in existance, but in a sort of Limbo, and murders Ozma because he wants to be re-incarnated (literally). At the end of that story it is suggested that Glinda and the Wizard will find a way to allow both both Tip and Ozma to have physical bodies similtaneously. .............................END OFSPOILER..................................... Do you include the comic book presentations of Oz to be separate Oz universes? Surely _Oz Squad_ and _Oz_ are highly heretical, but thoroughly developed. Well, perhaps. I will check my collection for other universes. Randy Hoffman's _Fairylands of the Sea_ is among the longest, most complex,and (incidentally) unfinished works. His biography of J. Glegg _Mixed Magic Makes Mischief_ deserves greater exposure. It probably has only been seen by people who read things on the OZ RESEARCH TABLE at conventions. Eric: What sort of a report do you want about the Quadling Convention? I showed an unsubtitled Russian film of The Wizard of the Emerald City (live action, not animation). Susan Hall provided several original Oz games: OzBall and Guesstures (the latter was a version of a pre-existing game). Ryan Bunch wrote an original puppet play _The Book Eating Silverfish of Oz_ which was performed by various persons at the convention. Susan Hall had a devilish contest identifying various monarchs and their realms by their pictures. (Marin Xiques and I tied for first place). There was an auction that netted $63 for the Club. That is my brief report. There will probably be a longer version in the Observer. SJT ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 17:07:45 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Recent Digests Dave: No apology necessary. In fact, you should give yourself a break, and take more time off. Producing the Digest every day, I don't see how you find any time for yourself. Steve Teller: The current Oz Collector catalog has "Our Landlady" by LFB available at the $35.00 price. Copies ordered before 6/1 will contain a bookplate signed by the editor. Tyler: Although the _Annotated Wizard of Oz_ is now out of print, it is available in many libraries. Dick Randolph DIXNAM@aol.com ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 19:29:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Eric: I was unable to watch Star Trek Monday night. It came down to taping that show or another one. I can watch STV next Sunday afternoon, but the "other show" is not re-run six days later. I can't wait to spot the reference, though! Stephen Teller: In the long run, Pendexter's book and Abbott are not compatible. There are too many conflicting accounts during the final battle between the Wicked Witches. That is why all of Abbotts books are being split off into the sub-BOW Universe, which will be Baum consistent only. Aaron: Thanks for the HI/RCC. I know that _A farewell to Oz_ takes place in 1999. You may want to consider incrementing your Universes, since Universe II should probably the the sub-BOW Universe. ********** MAJOR SPOILER FOR MUDER IN OZ ********** The persona of Tip has taken over Ozmas life force, since he apparantly was not "destroyed" at the end of _Land_. Glinda manages to give a body of his own. This does not necessarily contradict _Seven Blue Mountains_. ********** END OF MAJOR SPOILER ********** Aaron again: Maybe the Random Housies could be siphoned off to the sub-BOW Universe, which will be Baum-consistent only. However, there is still the problem of Dorothy vanishing right in front of Uncle Henry and Aunt Em, with the subsequent note. Maybe the sub-BOW Universe should be made consistent with only the first three of the FF. --Tyler Jones ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 17:26:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-01-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 > > I second Bill Wright's enquiry. I've been approached by a lady interested > in developing a program for teaching English as a second language, based > on the Wizard of Oz. I recall a piece from the "Bugle" a few years ago (maybe in one of the "Best" volumes) about a Russian book that was an adaptation of "The Wizard of Oz," followed by an adaptation of "The Magic of Oz," in English, with Russian footnotes to explain the slang, colloquialisms, etc. Probably wouldn't be too tough to do in other languages. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > The Ozzy Digest archives are now available, month-by-month up to the end > of April. Here are the file sizes: > > February 1996 911,170 > March 1996 1,141,645 > April 1996 813,651 Well, I see my melding into the background has had some benefit... --Eric "See, shorter 'Digests', that's what I'm talking about" Gjovaag ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: For the Digest Can anyone out there help this person? --Eric ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 20:21:41 -0700 From: Margaret Chapman To: tiktok@eskimo.com Subject: over the rainbow hi. I'm a fellow Oz fan. I'm wondering if you know where(on the net) I can find the lyrics to the song, Somewhere over the rainbow Thanks. Margaret Chapman dachapma@access.k12.wv.us ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:22:56 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Ozma, Dan, and Tippetarius Dear Dave: Well, I have only imagined a Tip-marries-Ozma possiblity, not written it out. If I ever did it, it would be in an SBM 9 or 10. Plenty of time for you to beat me to it! Tip decides he wants to try being grown up, Zim ages him to about eighteen--and then Tip discovers he sees Ozma differently than he used to! Probably a lot of Oz authors have thought about marrying the Queen of Oz off at one time or another. What if several people married off Ozma at once? Just write the stories, and have the Oz fans vote for the matchup they like best? Just out of idle curiosity, are you entering the IWOO club's Oz books contest? Rather distressed that Laumer already married off Glinda. Hmm. How does one handle that sort of situation? Sounds like you have not read SBM yet. No, Ozma does not marry Tip. Not in Books I or II. Not even book III, which is still mostly ideas floating around in my head. However, part of the plot of SBM is based on the fact that there IS a real Tippetarius out there in Oz--Mombi used the infant Prince Tippetarius to accomplish the infant Ozma's enchantment by switching their outer appearances (and some of their substance as well.) SBM I begins with Princess Amalea waking up to find that she has turned into a boy. She/he has NO idea why. She/he thinks she has been enchanted. In fact, she/he has been DISenchanted. (At the same time Ozma regains her girlish form.) Later, Zim the Flying Sorcerer takes Tip on as an assistant.. One must admit that the above makes an Ozma-Tip match possible. Hmm. How 'bout a story with Tip and Dan as rivals for Ozma's affection? Flip a coin to see who wins. Your character or Baum's. (Coins are impartial, y'know.) If Dan wins, then Ozma decides that marrying Tip would be too wierd.. If Tip wins, it's because Ozma and Tip know each other so well. Might Tip be the ideal romantic complication instead of Tititi Hoochoo? Or in ADDITION to Tititi Hoochoo? Would you like to use Tip? Go ahead! He's Baum's creation, not mine, after all. You may use SBM's explanation of his existence if you like. (Somewhat Ozzier than Snow's 'vengeful spirit' story--and the explanation is based on a "trick Mombi was familiar with" right there in "Land of Oz." Wonder if Baum ever realized he unwittingly gave a future Oz author the means to bring back Tip when he had Mombi perform her "switch forms trick." on Jellia Jamb.) Melody ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 22:14:02 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 Tyler Jones: No, Ozma does not get married off to Tip in the first two SBM's. Or even the third. It is still mostly a crazy idea I came up with that, if I wrote it at all, would not take place for a while. Still, Tippetarius might be a perfect romantic complication for Dave's Dan... Melody ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 22:14:09 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 To Aaron: A Tip-Ozma marriage may seem wierd--but perhaps my explanation of how it's possible will have appeared in the Ozzy Digest by the time Dave publishes this message. Tip: I can't feel this way about her, Zim. It's so wierd! It'd be like marrying MYSELF! Zim: She is not yourself, Tippetarius. You simply wore her form for the first few decades of your life. And she wore yours. You are two different people, with two different sets of ancestors. The idea of courting her may seem strange, but there is nothing wrong with it. To SJT: Thanks! Melody ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 22:14:05 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 To Richard Bauman: Thank you very much for trying to help with my plight. My computer is an IBM-compatible, though. But thanks--maybe you did help somebody out there with a Mac. Anybody out there know how to retrieve an oversized E-mail with an IBM? Heeeeelp! Melody ============================================================================= From: Dave, your Ozzy editor :) Subject: Many Ozzy Things :) TYLER: >If true, this means that there may also be a ghost image of Amalea around... And Tattypoo??? >The Ozzy Digest archives are now available, month-by-month up to the end >of April. Here are the file sizes: I also make a point of hanging on to the previous month's Digests... THANK HEAVEN FOR "LITTLE GIRLS": > Arthur Conan Doyle had Sherlock Holmes refer to a 14-year-old as "a >little girl" in "The Boscombe Valley Mystery," and anything that's good >enough for Sherlock Holmes is good enough for me... And in the "Mary Tyler Moore Show", when Bess' 16-year old ex-boyfriend switches his affections to Mary, Mary (perhaps to drive home to him the age difference) calls him a "little boy"...And then there's the episode when Mary hires a baby sitter who turns out to be a year *younger* than Bess, and yet she says things to Bess like, "Want me to help you with that jigsaw puzzle, *little girl*?" :) :) :) NUMBER GAMES: The subject of 47 has come up again, so let me re-assert my conviction that 47 is the number that won't go away...It pops up so much it seems to be in the fabric of the Cosmos. Rich attributed it to 47 being prime, which may be part of the answer, but then where is 83 and 29 in Ozzy lore? :) "It may be that 47 is the Cosmic Random Element, the Agent of Infinite Change." -- Buckminster Fuller, _Synergenics 2_ OZFEST PAGE: Curt E-mailed me the URL of his OzFest web page, which he forgot to give in his post. It is: http://www.netvalue.com/oz BEAR'S "GROWLS": >Tyler >>Bear: I won't rebut David Hulans "meat-heads" comment, as I save my >>political gripings for other sites. >Please speak more plainly - is this comment, criticism, caution, etc.? I >thought I handled this very sauvely and debonairly. :) For the record, I would rather keep non-Ozian politics off the Digest...The only people open to criticism here are Ruggedo, Mombi, and ...Ozma! :) >Stephen J. Teller - For the record I have read "Wicked" and I hope the Bugle >does not review it. All it can do is create interest in it. IMO ugly things >should be ignored as much as possible. I don't agree. I think people should be made aware of this book and of its content. (Note that I'm not saying one way o the other how I feel about _Wicked_, I'm just saying poeple should be enlightened about it.) OZMA AND DAN: BTW, in case anyone was wondering how things were going with Ozma and Dan, Melody kindly E-mailed me some ideas that I think will help me make Ozma and Dan's marriage work *without* contradicting _Seven Blue Mountains_ (I have posted her remarks in this issue's _Digest_ because I realize now that she wanted it to be public because she explains to us how an Ozma-Tip union *could* occur!) I'm sure glad we have this forum in which we Oz fans/authors can help each other!!! (Thanks again Melody!!!) :) :) :) OZ ON CHARON NEWS FLASH!!!: I got an answer from James Christy today about our desire to have an Oz theme for the nomclature of geological features on Pluto's moon Charon! He was very encouraging!!! :) It's getting *very* late for me now and I really should go beddy-bye, but tomorrow I'll post what his letter says (and also my letter to him that his is in reply to, for the sake of the newcomers to the Digest...) -- Dave ============================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 3, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 15:04:32 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-02-96 YAAAY for Oz on Charon! Dave, maybe you could print James Christie's answer for us on the digest? Rich Morrisey - You actually can get "A Murder in Oz" through IWOC. it's published in the first volume of "The Best of the Baum Bugle". I wouldn't go to the effort of trying to include in the HACC - it's only a short story, not a book. Have you any idea how many Ozzy short stories are HACC inconsistent? Unless you want to give this one special status becasue it was written by an actual ex-Royal Historian, Jack Snow. But then, other Royal Historians have written short stories about Oz, some of which were published in "Oziana"... I'm sure Robin can elaborate. Eric - could you check for me which Bugle has the article about the Russian textbook? It just so happens I have a copy of the textbook itself, I never knew it had ever been reviewed in the Bugle. This is the only adaptation I know of in which the characters of Glinda and Ozma were merged, so that "The Magic of Oz" could be a logical sequel to "The Wizard of Oz", with noone noticing all that was missing inbetween... Melody, Dave - I love the idea of Tip as a romantic complication between Dave and Ozma. Ooh, another cool thing I remembered about 47: my mother is an official "skeptic", like Martin Gardener, and she has a couple of books about how charlatans like Uri Geller manage to impress people with their "telepathy". When you tell people to think about a "random" two-digit number, they are indeed more likely to come up with an odd than an even number, there is a preference for numbers ending with a seven, and there is a preference for numbers which are close to 50, which I guess is the "average" two digit number... "47", in other words, is concieved of as being more "random" than other numbers... So when Uri Geller says: "I'm getting 47, or 57..." he has much higher than a one in fifty chance of being right. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 05:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-02-96 > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: Re: Recent Ozzy Digests > > < while and I'm anxious to place it chronologically. >> > I'm anxious to read it! (If nobody else has it in print, why doesn't > the IWOC publish it? Then they'll have a perfect record of publishing new Oz > books by ALL the post-Baum FF writers!) "A Murder in Oz" is not a novel, but a short story. It is currently available from IWOC as part of their first "Best of the 'Baum Bugle'" collection, or as a pamphlet from Buckethead Enterprises of Oz. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Who wrote "Our Landlady," and what is the subject? "Our Landlady" was a column L. Frank Baum wrote ca. 1890 in his newspaper in the Dakotas. A collection of the columns is coming out soon, and Books of Wonder has it in their latest "Oz Collector" catalog. > From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-01-96 > > Eric: What sort of a report do you want about the Quadling > Convention? That one you gave (and I just deleted to save space) will do nicely for now, thank you. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Eric: > I was unable to watch Star Trek Monday night. It came down to taping that > show or another one. I can watch STV next Sunday afternoon, but the "other > show" is not re-run six days later. I can't wait to spot the reference, > though! It's not a big deal, just a character using a memorable line from the movie. But it was fun. I hear there was also an Oz joke or reference on "The Dana Carvey Show" on Tuesday, but I didn't see it. Then there's the ubiquitous Oz reference "Mystery Science Theater 3000" has in just about every experiment... > From: Dave, your Ozzy editor :) > Subject: Many Ozzy Things :) > > OZFEST PAGE: > Curt E-mailed me the URL of his OzFest web page, which he forgot to > give in his post. It is: http://www.netvalue.com/oz I will link this to my page ASAP, although probably not in time for this year's event. --Eric Gjovaag ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 11:06:35 -0700 From: steller Subject: various Greetings all! Bear: In 1890-91 LFB edited _The Aberdeen Staurday Pioneer_, a newspaper in Aberdeen SD. For this he wrote a column entitled "Our Landlady" dealing with the residents of a boarding house and their comments on current affairs. These form the first published imaginative writing by Baum, and have some foreshadowing of things in Oz books. Some of these pieces were reprinted with annotations by the South Dakota Writers Project in 1940, a very rare edition indeed! A few columns fave appeared in the _Baum Bugle_. Nancy Koupal has now produced a complete edition of all the columns with introduction, introductions to each column, detailed annotation and glossary. This is being published by U of Nebraska Press. It is far more "Baumian" than _The Book of the Hamburgs_. Eric: The lyrics to "Over the Rainbow" can be found in any edition of the screenplay for The Wizard of Oz. RMorris: "A Murder in Oz" is available from IWOC. It is included in _The [first] Best of the Baum Bugle (1957-1962). It was originally published in four early issues of the Baum Bugle, but those would every expensive. General: I have seen nothing yet (in the two weeks that I have been reading the Digest concerning two of the most important works of Oz, the 1914 film _His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz_ which contains the Jinxland story that later became part of _The Scarecrow of Oz_ put which differs from the book in many significant ways (One of these is that Dorothy is a slave to the witch Blinkie and does some the things Trot does in the book. The Wizard traps Blinkie and puts her in a can labled PRESERVED SANDWITCHES which he relables PRESERVED WITCH), and the musical _The Tik-Tok Man of Oz_ which preceded the book Tik-Tok in Oz_ and which differs from it in many ways (RobinO knows more about this as she acted in it at Castle Park). Should these two works be included in the Oz Canon? They were written by the original Royal Historian, afterall. And they came before the books, unlike _The Wogglebug_ and the 1914 _Patchwork Girl of Oz_ in which the book was written first. Give me your thoughts. Whether we like _Wicked_ or not it should be reviewed. I have run reviews of _Was_, _Dorothy--Return to Oz_ and _Oz Squar #1_, and a review of the BofW/Morrow edition of _Patchwork Girl_ should be in the Winter Bugle. I spoke to Chris Dulabone yesterday, and he is still not receiving e-mail, so, if you sent him any, or ordered anything by e-mail from Buckethead in recent weeks you know why he hasn't replied. SJT ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 14:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest CurtTofOz: The good thing, of course, is that our two groups now know about each other and can combine forces to spread Baum and Oz all over the world! :-) Chris W: Thanks for the Mego scoop. I sent the Oz fan the info. Rich: Actually, we believe that _Quer Visitors_ and all the others which were eventually combined in the volume _The Third Book of Oz_, took place BEFORE _Ozma_, since Dorothy did not know about the newer characters. IMHO, I view this book as Historically Inaccurate, since it has Uncle Henry and Aunt Em meeting these characters (hence knowing about the Land of Oz) when it is clear from Baums other books that they do NOT know about or believe in Oz until _Emerald City_. This book is in the HACC as the result of compromise with Chris. In order to resolve the apparant contradiction between _Enchanted Apples_ and _Wicked Witch_, we have determined that there could be many people claiming to be "THE" Good/Wicked Witch of (Choose your Compass point). This is a self-imposed title after all, and anybody can take it. Rich again: If you go to my Web Page and check out the Buckethead page, you will see that Buckethead is currently offering this book for the low, low price of only $3.00! http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones Aaron: I do not remember Volkovs name for the Good Witch of the North, but Farmer called her Helwedo. Aaron again: Well, now, that's the trick. I believe that multi-year books should be placed in the year that they begin, while Chris believes that they should be placed in the year that they end. Currently, SBM1 is placed in the year that it ends, the result of more compromise. Melody: Oh, No! You gave away your plot device! Thankfully, this is only a small part of your story, and I still recommend this book very highly to anybody who has not yet read it. By the way, Button-Brights marriage to Glinda is resolved by shipping the Laumer books off to a separate Universe, where the Baum, Thompson and Neill books are the only FF titles that "happened". If many people write about Ozma marrying somebody, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it. AH HA! That's why I didn't remember the marriage of Ozma to Tip. It didn't happen! I knew I couldn't have forgotten something like that! :-) May I submit that Ozma and Tip/Amadin/Dinny do not know each other so well? When Mombi did the transformational swithceroo, they traded shapes only, they did not acquire the personalities, knowledge and memories of each. They may each know what the other looks like, but they are still strangers, although they have a unique link to each other, and that may be the basis for getting to each other and then we can have him and Dan vie for the hand of Ozma, with TTH possibly interfering. This could be really cool! It could even become a serial. "Next week, On Emerald City Place, 90210", Dan comes out of his coma and reveals that Tip has hidden the body of Mombis twin sister in Glindas basement as revenge for Glinda spoiling the confrontation between Button-Bright and Ojo for Betsy Bobbins affections, assuming that Trot recovers from her amnesia... Melody again: When I get large text mailing, it usually gets downloaded automatically into C:\CSERVE\DOWNLOAD. You could also use "File|Save" to turn the mail message into a text file. Putting it in you filing cabinet turns it into a file that is not QUITE ASCII text. Dave: Yes, and Tattypoo, and Sir Hokus, and the Scarecrow/Chang Wang Woe, and maybe even the wooden doll-image of Peg Amy. Dave again: I am with you on this: keep politics off the digest, except for Oz politics! E-mail me privately for my words of wisdom in THIS Universe! :-) Oz on Charon: YES!!!! We need a Mount Munch. Oh, yes. We really really really do! :-) --Tyler Jones ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 10:15:23 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: A Murder in Oz RMorris306@aol.com writes: [on _A Murder in Oz_] > I'm anxious to read it! (If nobody else has it in print, why doesn't > the IWOC publish it? They did. See "The Best of the Baum Bugle 1957-1961" page 14. Personally I don't think much of this story. Oz magic simply doesn't work this way. Also [SPOILER ALERT] the spirit of Tip needed a body, so he took Ozma's spirit??? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And what was he doing hanging around Glinda's palace, anyway? Ozma was disenchanted near the Emerald City. I like the DISENCHANTED PRINCESS idea much better. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 19:03:15 -0400 (EDT) From: David Bedell Subject: Ozzy Digest: 47 From the standpoint of number theory, of course, 47 is unique in being the only random prime. David Bedell, University of Bridgeport, CT, USA ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 19:19:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Wicked Witch of the South 1) Uh, Rich, Payes's Wicked Witch of the South is Singra (if my memory serves me correctly), not Sindella. 2) Melody, I was thinking about entering the IWOC contest, but Barry has suggested we try passing The Woozy of Oz off as science-fiction. Also: In The Woozy of Oz it is revealed at one point that Ozma was married at one point. (Dave, I am sorry the marriage didn't last.) As her husband's name is not mentioned, it could be either Dan or Tippetarius (or someone else even). The idea of a Tippetarius whose form Mombi stole at one point requires only a minor change in a spell in Mombi of Oz, so I have no objections to it. As for the ghost idea, why am I wondering how often such magical side effects happen? Also: I take it for granted that Tippetarius (and/or its neuter and feminine equivalents Tippetaria and Tippetarima) is a fairly common Gillikin name and not unique to one person. Otherwise Mombi would have been arrested for kidnapping. 3) In private communication Stephen mentioned to me that some of the books referred to in footnote in Laumer's books were for books that he intended to write later. Based on this, I assume that An Orphan in Oz and Other Lands than Oz are two such phantom books, in which case they should be removed from the HI/RCC. If anyone has any information contrary to this (such as a copy of one of these books), please tell me. I might just appropriate these titles for the two sections (pre-Dorothean and post-Asmardian respectively) of Mombi of Oz. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 19:53:44 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-02-96 Rich>> "A Murder in Oz" is being reprinted by Hungry Tiger Press, in a collection of Jack Snow stories called "Spectral Snow". There's an order form in the Spring '95 Bugle. (Well, *ours* arrived in the mail yesterday.) Bear>> "Our Landlady" was the name of a regular column of satiric essays that Baum wrote for his newspaper in South Dakota. The main character is a boarding-house landlady, and much wry comment on then-current events, politics and attitudes is offered in the exchanges between her and her boarders. The Winter 1992 Bugle has an article on them (taken from the book that's just come out, I believe, then in preparation) and a representative column. -- Eleanor Kennedy ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 20:26:55 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: Question: Does anyone know how to go about getting a copy of the Australian film Oz (aka Twentieth Century Oz)? Bill Wright ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 21:04:36 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: Dave Said: I'm sorry that no one I sent my JPEG of Mount Flathead to has been able to decode it. I don't know if this helps, but the JPEG is 640x400 resolution and was either encoded for mailing in MIME-64 or UUEncode depending on who I sent it to. I don't know if the problem is with the JPEG or with the encoded mail files... ---------- Dave, the copy that came to me was not encoded as a mime attachment. It was buried in the message itself, rather than coming as an attached file with its own header so it could be trapped by my email sw (Eudora). I normally have no problem receiving mime attachments. Bill W. ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 21:25:46 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: To CurtTofOZ: I have added several links at my website to your Chittenango Festival Schedule page. Good luck with the festival. Bill W. ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 21:10:21 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Eric: Thanks so much for the info on the book with stuff for use in a class using WOZ. I will pass it on. On your question from a lady asking for where on the net she can find "Over the Rainbow": I sent her a separate email advising she won't find it legally on the net since this song is still under copyright. There is a songbook available that has this and all the other songs from the movie. Costs about $13 plus postage. Wow.........as I was composing this note a big earthquake just hit. I thought the roof was going to come in on us. Headed for cover. I'm back now and looks like we survived it this time. Bill W. ============================================================================= From: Dave, your editor MELODY AND _SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS OF OZ_: Tyler wrote (to Melody): >Oh, No! You gave away your plot device! Thankfully, this is only a small >part of your story, and I still recommend this book very highly to anybody >who has not yet read it. Actually in 20-20 hindsight, I realize I could have surrounded Melody's comments in regard to _SBM of Oz_ with "*** SPOILER ALERT ***", but I hate altering what other people write...I don't think her message will spoil the main story for anyone though. However, to help everyone out with what they want and don't want posted, and with what caveat... TWO POSTING TIPS (That I will probably add to the FAQ): -- When sending a message to me that addresses its comments to people besides me, it is obviously meant for public posting; but if you write a message to just me, please indicate whether or not the message is private or meant for the whole Digest to "overhear". -- When divulging the plot of a story, whether yours or someone else's, frame it in a "*** SPOILER ALERT ***" warning , or something similar, so people know that the info therein may "spoil" part of a story they have not yet read. TYLER: >I do not remember Volkovs name for the Good Witch of the North, but Farmer >called her Helwedo. I like Locasta better. :) >I believe that multi-year books should be >placed in the year that they begin, while Chris believes that they should >be placed in the year that they end. IMHO, multi-year books (including my own), should be shown in *ALL* eras that they take place, so for example the HACC with _Locasta and the Three Adepts_ might look like this: . . . 1921B Ridiculous Rivals in Oz 1921C Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz (Chapter 1) 1922 Kabumpo in Oz . . . 1928 The Giant Horse of Oz 1928A Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz (Chapter 2 to 3) 1929 Jack Pumpkinhead of Oz . . . 1993K Brewster Bunny in Oz 1993L Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz (Chapter 4 to End) 1993M The Healing Power of Oz Would this make things too messy? >May I submit that Ozma and Tip/Amadin/Dinny do not know each other so well? >When Mombi did the transformational swithceroo, they traded shapes only... Could someone refresh my memory? When did Mombi perform a similar "switcheroo" on Jellia Jamb (and with whom)? >They may each know what the other looks like, but they are still strangers, >although they have a unique link to each other, and that may be the basis >for getting to each other and then we can have him and Dan vie for the >hand of Ozma, with TTH possibly interfering. This could be really cool! I'm getting excited about it myself! :) :) :) >YES!!!! We need a Mount Munch. Oh, yes. We really really really do! :-) Except that since the *official* designations would be in Latin, all the maps of Charon would say, "Munch Mons". :) :) DAVID B.: >From the standpoint of number theory, of course, 47 is unique in being >the only random prime. What do you mean? What does it mean in number theory for a number to be "random"? AARON ADELMAN: >Also: In The Woozy of Oz it is revealed at one point that Ozma was >married at one point. (Dave, I am sorry the marriage didn't last.) I have said this before, but I'll say it again -- I *DON'T consider Laumer's or the Adelmans' stories to be part of the "Main Oz Universe" (in which Ozma and Dan live *happily ever after*!!!). OZ ON CHARON: Here is the letter I wrote to Christy, and his reply that I received yesterday: >Dear Mr. Christy: > > My name is David Hardenbrook. I am an astronomy >enthusiast and the Internet Digest editor for the >International Wizard of Oz Club. I recently read in the book >_New Worlds_ by Heather Couper and Nigel Henbest that when you >first discovered Charon you wanted to name it "Oz". I >recognize that this name was overruled because there are >strict rules in the astronomical community limiting names for >new moons, but I also know that no such limits exist for the >nomenclature of geological features of moons, and that in >fact each moon in the outer Solar System has a particular >theme for its geological features. My fellow Oz fans and I >feel that since "Oz" was your first choice for the name for >Pluto's, that we should petition NASA to make Oz the theme >for Charon, so that when the upcoming Pluto flyby >photographs Charon, its features will be named for people >and places in the Oz books. > > Such a mounment to L. Frank Baum and Oz seems especially >appropriate for the upcoming celebration of the centennial of >the publication of _The Wizard of Oz_. > > Any advice or support you can offer we would greatly >appreciate. > > Sincerely, > [Our names appeared below this] >Dear Dave, > >I think that your suggestion is a good idea. Naming features on Charon >using names from the "Wizard of Oz" is certainly a theme that I could >support. I suggest making contact with Robert Staehle, who is organizing >the Pluto Flyby mission. How nomenclature is worked out between NASA and >the International Astronomical Union is a mystery to me. Presumably names >associated with the many astronomers who have worked on Pluto could be the >theme for Pluto itself. Because Pluto and Charon do not rotate with respect >to one another, it may be appropriate to develop four themes, for back >sides and facing sides. Thus, you might make your proposal more modest by >suggesting that the back side of Charon be "Oz". Good luck with your effort. > > Sincerely, > > James W. Christy Just to fill in some info for the newbies, Charon is the moon of the planet Pluto, discovered in 1978 by James Christy. Christy wanted to name the moon "Oz", but the International Astronomical Union forced him to use a name from classical mythology (Charon was Pluto's ferryman -- the cloak-and-hooded skeleton in the movie _Clash of the Titans_), but since the surface features *on* Charon can be named anything, I got the idea to have the Oz books as the theme for the geological features of Charon, which will be first observed and mapped during the Pluto Flyby Mission, launch scheduled for 2002. Hence the letters I've posted above. The next step seems to be to get in touch with this Robert Staehle, but first I welcome any comments on Christy's letter from Digest members. -- Dave ============================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 4, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 13:55:45 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 Hi Digest! Yeah, David B., what is a "random prime"? Bill W. - I also want a copy of the Australian Oz film, as I posted here about a month ago... no luck for me so far, I hope you do better! If you do discover some sort of general source, please let me know too. Glad you survived the earthquake ... but next time, won't you oblige us by falling into a crack in the ground, so you can give us first-hand reports from the land of the Mangaboos? :-) Aaron - Volkov's name for the Good Witch of the North is "Villina". (Kind of like a cross between "Evilline" from "The Wiz", and "Billina"!) Bear - "Wicked" absolutely SHOULD be reviewed in the Baum Bugle. It may not be a good book, or a nice book, or a pretty book. But it has to do with Oz, and many collectors are interested in at least knowing something about all books related to their collection. Plus, having been reviewed in "The New York Times Book Review", this book has prbably already reached a wider audience than most non-FF Oz books, so that it many ways it is an IMPORTANT book for Oz-fans, and therefore newsworthy to the Bugle.(To stretch a point, SOMEONE has to read "Mein Kampf", or even "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" which is one of most repugnant and dangerous peices of propaganda ever written, just to know whats in there, so that potential readers can be armed with the historical facts that counterargument these vile books) I'm not saying every Oz fan should read "Wicked", I'm saying every Oz fan should know enough about "Wicked" to make the decision whether to read it or not. I'm glad I read "Dorothy - return to Oz" when it was translated into Hebrew, even though I actually suffered while reading it, and I consider it one of the most odious books I have read in my life. Having read it, I reviewed it for Israel's most prestigious literary reviews. If five parents walked into a bookshop the next day, and said to themselves, "I won't buy that book for my child, the newspaper said it was awful", I'm glad I read the book and wrote the review. If one parent walked into a bookshop that same day, and said: "I wonder if they have the REAL sequel to 'The wizard of Oz', the newspaper said it was excellent", I'm very very glad I read the book, and wrote the review I wrote. Plus, though I loathed "A Barnstormer in Oz" as much as I thought I would after reading reviews of it, I was riveted by "Was", which many people detest (for reasons that are obvious to me). I think it was clever of Stephen to publish two opposing reviews of "Was" in the Baum Bugle. I actually think that the negative review was the better review, because it didn't just say: "I hated this book", but was intelligently written, and gave enough examples and an accurate enough description of the atmosphere and plot of the book, to let me make a more educated decision about reading it. I read the book thinking I was probably not going to like it, and maybe this very belief made it easier for me to enjoy what I did of the book. I've been writing for hours, gotta go now. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 06:06:00 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: Can anyone answer this one? What was the name of Dorothy's pet in the original STAGE version of the Wizard of Oz? Bill Wright ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 09:11:42 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 I believe that March Laumer *DID* publish a book called IN OTHER LANDS THAN OZ. ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 06:32:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 The Winter 1995 issue of _The Baum Bugle_ arrived at my house yesterday. Imagine my surprise at discovering its cover is dated "Spring 1995"! Both Eleanor Kennedy and I edited page proofs for Dan and Lynne Smith (it was the Smith's final issue--Spring 1996, nearly ready to go to press, will be edited by the Oz Club's new _Bugle_ editor, Bill Stillman), but we didn't get to see a mock-up of the cover. It's a good issue. Peter ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 08:57:20 -0700 From: steller Subject: various -----FAIRUZA ALERT----- All fans of Fairuza Balk (Dorothy in the 1985 _Return to Oz_) should know that her new film is _The Craft_ which has a saturation opening this week. Perhaps the distributor thought he could sneak it through before the reviews came in. From the review I read I see Fairuza plays an witch wannabe. She played an apprentice witch in the made for television movie _The Worst Witch_, which was fun, about 10 years ago. The reviewer of _The Craft_ said Balk was the one bright spot in an otherwise mediocre film. Aaron S. Adelman: _In Other Lands than Oz_ is a real production by Vanitas Press (March Laumer). It is a collection of stories by Laumer and others most of which have nothing to do with Oz. Two of them, by Laumer, deal with the Woozy, his [its?] creation and "sticky end." The former of these did appear in _Oziana_ quite a long time ago. There are other books, mentioned in footnotes in Laumer books, that have not yet been written. Several years ago March Laumer told me he was planning to write _The Woozy in/of Oz_ if the title had not been used. Has it now been used? I had not heard. What do we do with adaptations? _Return to Oz_, Vinge's novelization of _Return to Oz_ etc.? Consider, _Tik-Tok_ is an adaptation of _The Tik-Tok Man of Oz_ which was,in turn,a stage adaptation of _Ozma of Oz_ (That's why there are so many similarities between the two books). Similarly, should Jack Snow's _Shaggy Man_ be considered a rewriting of _John Dough and the Cherub_? There are some very close similarities between the two. Just a few thoughts that roam my mind. SJT ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 11:02:27 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy stuff Eleanor Kennedy: I, too, received the "Baum Bugle" package yesterday, but although the issue cover says "Spring 1995", (an obvious typo), it is actually "Winter 1995", as indicated on page 1. The "Oz and Ends" section contains a very nice write up on the Digest, and particularly in regard to our esteemed Editor, Dave!! (:-D) Eric: Great article regarding the economy and monetary system of our favorite fairyland. (:-) Steve Teller: Two of the Buckethead books you review in the current Bugle, "The Lost Emeralds of Oz", by Fred Otto, and "The Healing Power of Oz", by Gil Joel, are two that I have recently read, and agree that, (while I never had the pleasure of knowing Mr. Otto, but have heard many complimentary words expressed about him), that he would have preferred a much different style of illustrations. ( No offense intended toward Mr. Sullivan or his work.) I did buy the special edition of "The Healing Powers of Oz" with the hand colored illustration by Marcus Mebes! Kudos to Dan Smith and the rest of the Bugle staff for a fine issue. (:-D) Dick Randolph (DIXNAM@aol.com) ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 11:47:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: HACC dating 1) On the subject of dating stuff for the HACC, some of the stuff in Lurline's Machine is going to cause at least as much trouble as Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz. The Woozy of Oz according to Tyler would be 1903A (it has a chapter which takes place one month after Ozma comes to the throne) and according to Chris would be 2097 (at the earliest; it could also be labled 1 YA (Year of the Asmard) to avoid forcing the series to end at a particular date). The third book (current ordering), Mombi of Oz, in which part 1 recounts the overthrow of Pastoria from Mombi's point of view and part 2 continues post-Asmardian history, is going to be even worse. According to Tyler it would be 1861 (assuming adoption of the date from my working model of the overthrow of Pastoria), according to Chris 2097A/1A YA, and according to Dave it would have to be mentioned in at dates from 1861 to 1903 several times and then in 2097/1 YA as well. While technically more correct, it would definitely take a lot more research to put into practice that either Tyler or Chris's proposals. Currently I favor Chris's proposal, that books be dated by where they end, as that would put the books in Lurline's Machine in correct order, at least so far as post-Asmardian history is concerned. 2) Stephen, since none of the plays melds well with the FF, at best one could consider them to represent alternate versions of Oz and not standard Oz. Hence if they go anywhere, they go in the HI/RCC rather than the HACC. If you can give me references to published versions of them, I'll gladly put them in. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 15:40:21 -0600 (MDT) From: estelle@usa.net (Estelle E. Klein) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 I did catch most of the Oz spoof on The Dana Carvey Show- the four main characters stood in rage while Dana sang a take off entitled "If I Only Had An A**". It was a very short segment, but he was entertaining!! ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 15:20:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest ********** ON A MURDER IN OZ ********** WHile it is true that this was originally a short story published in a magazine, it has now been published as a book, and therefore goes into the HACC as it is historically accurate to the FF. While it seems to contradict the information in _Disenchanted Princess_, in fact it does not. The "Tip" that we met in Jack Snows book was a by-product of Mombis transformation, and thus could only achieve life thru Ozma. When she was unenchanted, the newly-created "ghost" followed her around instead of being bound at the Emerald City. This Tip has no relation to the Tip we meet in _Disenchanted Princess_. Let me say again that this book is available for the low low price of $3.00 from Buckethead and you can find this info on my web page. According to yesterday's digest, Chris is not currently receiving e-mail, so it would be a good idea to use his snail-mail address, also given on my web page. Stephen Teller: In my honest opinion, I believe that these two films should NOT be listed in the canon, simply because they were written by L. Frank Baum. Using this arguement, one could also say that such things as the Aunt Janes Nieces books and _The Book of the Hamburgs_ should also be considered canonical Oz books. It is true that Baum was the one who brought Oz to us and he will be honored and remembered for that forever, but that does not mean that everything Baum wrote, drew, saw, did, heard, felt, thought, etc. is by definition historically accurate Ozian history. I realize that many people have this attitude that "All Baum is Oz and all Oz is Baum", but I cannot accept that. Projects like the films and _The Third Book_ of Oz were meant as sidelights to the Land of Oz and they are not accurate to the main Oz books. IMHO, I view the Oz books themselves as the heart and soul of Oz, with all other activities (movies, toys, plays, etc.) as offshoots. Oz has grown in the last century and, as a concept, has superseded Baum and is now bigger than he ever was. The Baum 14 are still the core of the FF which is the core of Oz, but I believe that other stuff by Baum should not be granted canononical status simply because of the name on the cover. John White: Yes, _Disenchanted Princess_ is far, far, far, far (add a few hundred more fars) superior to _Murder in Oz_, but see my comments above as to why both books can be considered accurate and not contradictory to each other. Aaron: Your remark means, of course, that Ozmas marriage (to Dan or somebody else) did not last in YOUR Universe. Which reminds me, here's something to start with: The four Historically Accurate Universes. This is only a rough approximation, but should get things going: HACC 1: The Mainline Universe: Accurate to the entire FF plus the entire IWOOC extension. This is the main one. The vast majority of non-FF material goes here. HACC 2: Lurlines Machine: Accurate to the entire FF and contains some Laumerisms. Has a few differences with HACC 1, but they are enough to require a separate Universe. HACC 3: Laumerian Universe. Accurate to the first 35 books of the FF. Written in a very different tone from other Ozzy Universes. Note that in this Universe, the dates of the first six Baum books will be closer to the date of publication, as Dorothy is at least sixteen by the time she moves to Oz permanently. HACC 4: Sub-BEOO/BOW. Accurate to the Baum 14 (or possibly only the first 3 Baum Books). This Universe is for stuff by authors who have not read the entire FF or even the entire Baum 14 and thus may not know of the major changes and revelations that occured later in the series. Note that at this time, it is unknown whether Dorothy moved to Oz permanently and it is also unknown if the Wizard returned in this Universe. All other Universes (the HI/RCC) are as Aaron as put them out so far. Obviously, I am not the end-all and be-all of this, and I hope to have lots of input from other people on this. Aaron again: Actually, there was no chance that Mombi would have been arrested, but I can't tell you why. You'll have to get the book and read it yourself, which would be well worth the effort. Also, _In Other Lands Than Oz_ sounds familiar. I'll look to see if I have it. I will also provide you with a list of books that I do have, along with the dates that Laumer himself provided. Dave: Ick! The splitting up of each book by chapter and assigning each chapter a separate year was suggested as a joke once by Chris. Yes, it would be VERY messy, but it was a nice though :-) Actually, there are problems no matter which way you do it. Dave again: Mombi did the switcheroo on herself and Jellia Jamb in _Land of Oz_ to fool Glinda. Dave and Aaron: As you can see, your two books will occur in two different Universes, (assuming that this thing pans out), thus what happens in one book will not affect events in the other. I am encouraged by Christy's response. I don't think we should settle for just one side of Charon, though. We oughta take the whole hog! :-) --Tyler ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 15:26:38 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30 through 05-03-96 I've spent most of my spare time the last few days assembling some computer furniture and setting up the computer so I can use it without considerable discomfort. That's now taken care of, so I should be able to respond daily without much problem from now on (assuming I have anything to say, which I usually do. :-) ). Digest of 4/30: Aaron: Lurline and Tititi-Hoochoo as a marriage isn't totally far-fetched - since they're both rulers, such a marriage might be entered into for reasons of state with no pretense of love on either side. Not that it's likely, but I find it less bizarre than Glinda and Button-Bright... Tyler: I largely keep my political opinions off the Digest as well; I was just riposting to Bear's original comment. But I probably shouldn't even have done that. I'll try to refrain in the future. Steve: I've sent you a review of WICKED; it was written for a general readership rather than Oz fans, but it might serve if you get nothing better. John White: We don't KNOW that Ozma didn't start Dorothy and the Wizard on their adventures underground, but if so it seems even less bright of her than setting Dorothy on the ROAD - the only dangerous place in the latter was the Scoodler country, but the underground adventure was dangerous almost everywhere. How could she rule Oz effectively when she'd need to monitor Dorothy's progress almost continuously? And why would she do it in the first place? It's not as if she couldn't have wished Dorothy - and the Wizard and the rest of Dorothy's companions - to Oz directly, without all the underground stuff. Dave: >David H. wrote: >>...it's one more point for my essay on why, though Ozma is >>sweet and adorable, she's not terribly bright... >Dan (rolling up his sleeves): You wanna step outside and say that?! :) :) :) But Danny-boy - your own sweetie-pie has repeatedly said that violence never solves anything! :-) :-) :-) Digest of 5/1: Dave, hope your personal problems were nothing serious. Tyler: OK, I misremembered about the two-Ozma theory. I agree that it's highly unlikely, but then I think a lot of things that have crept into published books are highly unlikely, and they've been published anyhow. I'd remembered that as one of them. Digest of 5/2: Curt of OZ: Glad to hear that there's so much interest in Baum in Chittenango. Rich Morrissey: OK, I'll give up on "little girl" necessarily implying a pre-puberty Dorothy. But in one of the books - don't recall for sure which, but probably TW or MAGIC - Baum says that Ozma appears to be fourteen or fifteen, and Dorothy "much younger" or "several years younger", something like that. Thirteen isn't significantly younger than fourteen or fifteen. The trip by the Gump in QUEER VISITORS is very narrowly dated by the World's Fair that they end up in the midst of toward the beginning. If you accept it as Historically Accurate, and after OZMA (and therefore presumably also after DOTWIZ, since Dorothy didn't return to Kansas in between), then you squeeze the chronology back pretty far. Maybe not farther than I already have with my aging theory, but pretty far. (Dang, I wish I had my books!) "All You Zombies" was probably the first SF story where a character had sex with him/herself, but there's a lot more of it in David Gerrold's THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF. Aaron: When I get my books back I can check and see if Volkov gave the Good Witch of the North a name, but probably someone else can check for you sooner. Eric: As others have pointed out, the lyrics to "Over the Rainbow" can't be legally posted on the Net. But it would be easy enough to quote them in a private E-mail to Ms. Chapman, and legal as far as I know. Digest of 5/3: Steve: I don't think the film "His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz" or the play "The Tik-Tok Man of Oz" should be considered canonical, any more than "Queer Visitors" or "The Woggle-bug Book". They contradict the FF, which have to be the basis of everything. IMO. David Bedell: A "random" prime? I don't recall anything like that from number theory, but then number theory wasn't ever one of my favorite parts of mathematics. Aaron: Why would Mombi have been arrested for kidnapping, even if only one person in Oz ever had the name of Tippetarius? (In fact, who would have arrested her? I don't recall any evidence of a police force or justice system in pre-Ozma Oz.) Bill: I doubt if the Australian film "Oz" has anything to do with the real Oz - it's a pet name they use for their own country. (I remember seeing a comic in London titled "Judge Dredd in Oz", but he was visiting Australia, and it had nothing to do with our Oz.) A big earthquake in the Seattle area? Glad you survived it OK, and hope all my other friends and acquaintances there did as well! David Hulan ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 16:55:41 -0400 From: Nathan Faut Subject: Storylines In OZ Dave, Thank you for the Oz Digest. I find it alternately interesting, wonderful, fascinating, frustrating, and certainly thought-provoking. I just received my Baum Bugle last night and noticed that you and the OZ Digest are written up in it, with glowing reports even. Congratulations. I started reading the "heretical" book by Gregory Maguire titled _Wicked_. I have read a lot of folks' (rather dismissive) comments about Wicked, and caught the FF vs. non-FF chat. Darned few folks bring up Barnstormer (that I've read) and fewer still seem to have read Weird Heroes (#2?): The Oz Encounter (THAT was an eye-opener!). Don't get me wrong, I love the originals (well, I have some problems with the Thompsons, but let that pass). But I am intrigued with the facets of childhoodness and adultness when comparing the originals to the hereticals. For instance, the Tin Woodman axes the Kalidahs in the original story, rather brutally, if my memory serves me properly. And I still shiver when I think of the casual way that the Wizard kills off the Wooden Gargoyles in DotWiz -- the Wizard makes some off-handed remark that they were probably leading evil lives anyway, after torching their village as the pair escape down the mountain's interior. Then, of course, the deleted references to the Meat Kingdom in DotWiz, too, that was published in the Baum Bugle a few years back. [I am far away from my Baum Bugle and other references, so I can't quote this as accurately as I'd like.] So here we are, challenged by writers who bring reality to OZ. In the FF and many of the pastiches since, holding to the childhoodness has been an important underpinning of each novel. Philip Jose Farmer, Gregory Maguire and Ted White, however, reconsider Oz. Oz suddenly has its own unique language, sex and birth and death, and rape (in that order), and other "adultnesses". I am of two minds about the hereticals, myself. On one hand, I am intrigued by the vision these people bring to Oz. They ground the fantasy land while staying within the places and events we have come to accept as minor Gospel. The writers look at Oz and take the fable away. For instance, Glinda is a tool. She travels here and there, makes some spells, and then goes back to her castle. She never has a Life. She never lets her hair down. She hardly talks for goodness' sake! Dorothy and Ozma gossip like young girls (Ozma, DOTWIZ, Road, etc.), but Glinda remains cool, aloof and estranged. Yet she obviously has tremendous knowledge, power, ability, and a vast array of tools. The hereticals (The Oz Encounter this time) give Glinda movement, face, character ... and death. Dorothy, in the original FF, is the impertinent yet charming little girl. She slaps the Lion, she says No at the oddest times and gets away with it -- half the time, I'm not sure if she isn't spoiled rotten. Yet other times, she is totally charming and winsome. Dorothy, like most children, is a creature of action and emotion first, thought (if any) much later. Yet the hereticals try to determine what kind of girl she REALLY was (Wicked) or what kind of adult she became when she returned home (Barnstormer). I find the constrast of airy, light, nearly flighty (FF) and confused, scared, scarred, damaged by the trip to Oz (hereticals) to be endlessly interesting and fascinating. On the other side, I am repulsed by what is, essentially, a fantasy world forced into reality. The original FF don't have death (other than hideous kinds), taxes, money, and more fears than I can count. The hereticals strip away that Nirvana, rend and shred the comfort and brightness of Oz and replace it with our world's troubles. I read Oz books to NOT deal with double-dealing politics, NOT deal with bills and bosses and bad hair days. It's good, old-fashioned escapist literature. And the hereticals tear that away. Along that line, I admit that I find the idea that Ozma gets a boyfriend just repugnant. Dorothy never gets one in the FF; neither Trot nor Betsy, too. Why Ozma? Why not pick on Glinda -- get her a husband, she's old enough. Let's look at this another way. Ozma, Dorothy and friends are just at that age, in Baum's day, when girls tittered, tattled and gossiped. RPT didn't change that (thank Ghod!). These days, a lot of young women in that age bracket are smoking, getting AIDS or pregnant -- maybe not a majority, but enough to get local attention. I graduated high school with boys who had tried sex when they were twelve and eleven. The local news here in D.C. occasionally reads about a boy (aged maybe eight or ten) sexually molesting a girl (aged seven or nine). Baum lived and died in a Victorian/Edwardian world where manners were far more important, added structure to the civilization, and cotillions and balls were The Events. Between the hereticals and the FF spans a lot of published work that you folks and others like us are reading and writing. Baum, Thompson, Neill, et.al. never gave Ozma a boyfriend, nor Dorothy nor any of the other friends. Yet, when Wicked or Barnstormer comes out, most "true Oz" fans dismiss those as heretical and interesting but "not valid". Then what makes giving Ozma a boyfriend valid? Oh, it's cute, it's fun to play with the idea, write down the story. But it's heretical. It breaks the characters as they are written in the original stories. The comfortable thing about Thompson and Neill and Snow is that they left those storylines alone. They didn't fill-in hoztory between the FF -- they pursued new, additional hoztory, whether travelogues, mysteries, or political intrigues. I suggest that, wonderful writing and interesting plot though it is, the tale of Ozma and Dan romance be considered as heretical as Wicked, Barnstormer and Encounter. Nathan ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 20:10:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 Dave, your letter to Christy and his response are really super. How exciting! Yip Mons, anyone? I wish I could remember more of my high school Latin; then I'd know how to say things like "Lake Quad." Actually, there probably are no lakes on Charon anyway. Mombi/Jellia switcheroo: LAND, p.251. "So Mombi called Jellia Jamb to her, and performed a certain magical rite with which she was familiar. As a result of the enchantment Jellia took on the form and features of Mombi, while the old witch grew to resemble the girl...." Jellia did not lose her own sense of identity. When, on p.253, Glinda asks "...what is your name?" Jellia is frightened. "This Jellia dared not tell, having been threatened with death by the witch if she confessed the fraud." She knows quite well who she really is. --Robin ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 21:44:09 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 To whomever asked about the Mombi-Jellia Jamb transformational switcheroo--it occurs in Land of Oz when Glinda's troops camp outside the Emerald City. Glinda tells General Jinjur by messenger to surrender Mombi to her. Mombi refuses to go, and "by a trick familiar to her" (Baum's own words) causes Jellia to exchange forms with Mombi herself. Two of Jinjur's woman soldiers take Jellia, disguised as Mombi, to Glinda, who shortly discovers the deceit and changes Jellia back to herself. At the same time, Mombi changes back into herself. ******* SPOILER ALERT FOR DISENCHANTED PRINCESS ****** One reason I gave away the Plot Device is because I've been freely giving away that Plot Device for years! In fact, Steve Teller published it in a review of SBM and other original Oz novels in a Baum Bugle. Anybody who read that review knows how Tip turns out to be just as real as Ozma. I'm glad he published the Plot Device in the review. That way, I get credit for it. If it's swiped, people know who it was swiped from! However, there's lots of stuff about SBM I have NOT given away, or given to very few. However, for SBM, because Mombi meant for the Ozma-Tip switch to be permanent, she used a stronger version of the above, and Ozma and Tip indeed have some switched memories as well as outer shapes. Working for Zim the Flying Sorcerer seems comfortable and natural to Tip because he (very) unconsciously remembers working for another magic-worker-- Mombi. Switching some of Ozma's and Tip's substance would also be a good explanation why Glinda could not find the lost Ozma--she (and Tip) was in two places at the same time, which would cleverly confound any magic used to find Ozma (or Tip). It would also explain why Ozma behaves so differently from Tip. SHE unconsciously remembers having been a princess of Lostland, and so behaving like a princess with courtly manners and ways suddenly comes naturally to her after her untransformation from Tip. *******END OF SPOILER ALERT!******** Well, I don't know how much of a spoiler the above is--much is not directly mentioned in SBM itself--it is merely implied. Hmmmm. It might be a spoiler even for readers of SBM! Gaaaah! Since Buckethead's asking price for SBM I is $25.00--well, I don't know how much my autograph's worth, but it's going into every one that Buckethead manages to sell. Melody ============================================================================= Date: Saturday 04-May-96 02:17:12 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things GILI: Thanks for your comments! I agree that all books should be reviewed and discussed, no matter how "ugly" we may think they are. DICK R.: >The "Oz and Ends" section contains a very nice write up on the Digest, and >particularly in regard to our esteemed Editor, Dave!! (:-D) :) :) :) TYLER: >The splitting up of each book by chapter and assigning each chapter a >separate year was suggested as a joke once by Chris...Actually, there are >problems no matter which way you do it. How about doing it this way: Put the book where the *majority*, or the *most significant* part of it of it takes place (Either way, _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ would be placed in 1993, just prior to _Healing Power_. >I am encouraged by Christy's response. I don't think we should settle for >just one side of Charon, though. We oughta take the whole hog! :-) I think I agree with you. *MOST* moons (including Earth's) are non-rotating with respect to their primaries (Translation: they keep the same face pointed toward their parent planet), but to the best of my knowledge, *NO OTHER* moon has a theme that is restricted to only one hemisphere... Let's go for the gold -- Oz for *ALL* of Charon! (Any more comments on this, anyone?) NATHAN (MORE OZMA-AND-DAN-BASHING): I'm sure a lot of people of sick of hearing me repeatedly defending my Ozma-Dan romance over and over...So for a change I'll let them defend *themselves*...! :) > For instance, Glinda is a tool. She travels here and there, makes >some spells, and then goes back to her castle. She never has a Life. She >never lets her hair down. She hardly talks for goodness' sake! Glinda: No wonder Dave thinks I'm that Irish singer Enya in disguise! We both get criticized for being "private people"! :) > Along that line, I admit that I find the idea that Ozma gets a >boyfriend just repugnant. Ozma: Why is my having a love interest given the same level of vileness as bringing violence, rape, and other terrible things into Oz? Love is one of the joys of life, and *does* exist in utopian worlds like Oz that are free of those horrible things. Dan: And if love and romance is "adult", where did all those Disney movies from _Snow White_ to _Aladdin_ come from? Scraps (singing): "A whole new world...Ozma and Danny's point of view--" Ozma: Er, thank you, Scraps... >Dorothy never gets one in the FF; neither Trot nor Betsy, too. Dan: Not to quote President Reagan, but: "There they go again!" :) If it's not in the All-Powerful FF, it can't ever be! >Why Ozma? Ozma: Why not? Baum rightly says I'm "fifteen or sixteen", which is old enough for a serious relationship! Glinda: And Thompson's and other's subsequent inferences that Ozma's no older than Dorothy, Betsy, and Trot is (as you'll find out when you read _Fairy Princess of Oz_) our elaborate propaganda campaign to protect Ozma from the wrath of-- Kabumpo: AHEM! Glinda: Sorry...I won't leak... >Why not pick on Glinda -- get her a husband, she's old enough. Ozma: So am I! Glinda: I *AM* next on Dave's list! :) >These days, a lot of young women in that age bracket are smoking, >getting AIDS or pregnant... Ozma: And you won't see *ME* doing those things...The love I have for Danny *HAS NOT* and *WILL NOT* alter my overall character of sweetness, gentleness, "lovingkindness" and devotion to the welfare of my people! Dave's story will *NOT* alter or "corrupt" Oz's Ozziness, as many seem to think. Dan: . So many seem to think that any love story in Oz must have drugs, violence, explicit sex, etc., etc., when in fact, Dave's story will be as innocent and charming as any FF Oz book...You'll just see a tender relationship developing between two people! >Then what makes giving Ozma a boyfriend valid? Ozma: What makes giving me a boyfriend INvalid? Scraps: Is _Patchwork Bride of Oz_ "invalid" because the FF doesn't insinuate anything romantic between me and the Scarecrow? Reera: Is _Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted easter Eggs of Oz_ "invalid" because Baum said I was even more reclusive than Glinda? Adepts: Is _Glinda of Oz_ "invalid" because we're not Glinda, Ozma, or the Wizard but we practice magic anyway? :) >Oh, it's cute... Sir Humphery Appleby: Also original, imaginative, and novel. Prime Minister Jim Hacker: The three "killers" as far as Humphery is concerned... Bernard: Are you sure we should even *BE* here, Prime Minister? Your diplomatic schedule doesn't include Oz this week... >But it's heretical. Dan: Okay, I'm heretical. Kind of gives me a feeling of importance. :) >It breaks the characters as they are written in the original stories. Ozma (examines herself): As far as I can tell, I'm still in one piece... :) :) >I suggest that, wonderful writing and interesting plot >though it is, the tale of Ozma and Dan romance be considered as heretical as >Wicked, Barnstormer and Encounter. Dan: _Fairy Princess_ can't POSSIBLY be as heretical as _Wicked_ because _Fairy Princess_ doesn't contradict the FF. (Granted it does if you are convinced that Ozma can't have a love interest period, but I'm betting that most Oz fans are more willing to approach Dave's tale of mine and Ozma's relationship with an open mind.) ROBIN O. (OZ ON CHARON): >Dave, your letter to Christy and his response are really super. How >exciting! Yip Mons, anyone? I wish I could remember more of my high >school Latin; then I'd know how to say things like "Lake Quad." Okay, here's a quick lesson in Latin nomenclature for planetary features: ( so we can come up with names for things on Charon ahead of time! :) :) ) Latin Term Translation Example Mons Mountain Olympus Mons (Arizona-sized mountain on Mars) Mare Seas Mare Tranquillitatis (where Armstrong walked) Planitia Flat Plain Chryse Planitia (where Viking I landed on Mars) Patera Round depression Loki Patera (Volcano mouth on Jupiter's Io) Valles Valley Valles Marineris (5000-mile-long canyon on Mars) Linea Linear formation Phineus Linea (on Jupiter's Europa) Rupes Ridge Discovery Rupes (on Mercury) Terra Continent/Plateau Aphrodite Terra (on Venus) >Actually, there probably are no lakes on Charon anyway. Don't be too sure...It's cold enough out there that there *could* be lakes of liquid nitrogen! -- Dave ============================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 5, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 20:34:33 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: SJT asked: Ref the 1914 film _His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz_ and the musical _The Tik-Tok Man of Oz_... Should these two works be included in the Oz Canon? Well, the first was a silent film so it may be difficult to incorporate into the Canon. But the Tik-Tok musical is an interesting question. Where might the stageplay be available? If someone could get a copy (fax will work) to me, I will enter it into a web page for everyone to have access to. Then we may have a more informed discussion on the merits of including it in the Canon. Unless a reasonably large number of the Ozzy crew has a chance to read and talk about it, then the won't go very far (I suspect). Bill W. ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 03 May 1996 20:46:06 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: Here's a suggestion on the Charon/Oz venture. Why not enlist the international reach of the I'net to promote the idea. We can put together a set of pages that give the idea and background, host them at our sites, and see if we can enlist a lot of mirror sites. It could include a form email response that would go to who ever should get letters of support. Visitors to the pages could then easily send an email of support to the people (particularly in Nasa/JPL and its funders), to whom these letters might make a difference. The downside risk is that not many emails might be generated. But the basic idea is to get a lot of publicity for the idea. Any other thoughts? Bill W. ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 14:13:29 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-04-96 Dave - Charon! Charon! Charon! I think we should get unwired Oz fans to sign the letter too. Maybe circulate a form with one of the next bugles, as was once done with the campaign to get Baum's face on an American stamp? Especially effective would be celebrity names, such as Ray Bradbury and Martin Gardner. David H. - the australian film Bill Wright and I are looking for does have an Oz connection. There is a section about it in Allan Eyelle's book "the world of OZ". It is a modern parable of Oz - Dorothy is a groupie of a rock star called "the wizard", and she sets off across Australia looking for him. On the way she befriends some Australian characters who parallel the Scarecrow, tinwoodman and Lion, except they're all 'real' people. She buys a pair of red shoes in a boutique called "The Good Fairy". All this according to Allan Eylle, as I haven't seen the film myself! Bill Wright - the name of Dorothy's pet COW in the original stage version of the wizard of Oz is Imogene. Hey digest, whaddya know, the Winter Bugle actually arrived in Jerusalem a few days ago, BEFORE it reached the rest of you in the States... I've only arrived in Jerusalem recently myself, so I haven't had much time to read it, but I did read the report on the digest. maybe we could write up a digest of the digest a couple of times a year, and submit it to the"Bugle", so others know whats going on here? (This is like asking, "maybe we should tie a bell to the cat?" I can't think why anyone would want to volunteer for such a lot of work... but just in case any of you are crazy enought to attempt this, I think its a good idea.) Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 10:15:42 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: David: >I doubt if the Australian film "Oz" has anything to do with the real Oz - >it's a pet name they use for their own country. Basically, as I have been told by others, it is the WOZ story set in modern Australia with contemporary characters. >A big earthquake in the Seattle area? Glad you survived it OK, and hope all >my other friends and acquaintances there did as well! It rattled our cages pretty good......the folks who study this stuff keep telling us that we are due for "The BIG ONE" before too long. Hope not. But then, as Gili noted, I can always look forward to its transporting me to a place I would really like to visit, and maybe stay a while. :-) Bill W. ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 10:23:06 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: Nathan: > For instance, the Tin Woodman axes the Kalidahs in the original >story, rather brutally, if my memory serves me properly. Actually, it's a wildcat that gets axed. Didn't seem all that brutal to me. Just one clean stroke and voila!, the problem is solved. No blood, no mess. :-) Bill W. ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 14:13:57 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Romantic Tension in Oz In our last episode, Dave said: >Scraps: Is _Patchwork Bride of Oz_ "invalid" because the FF doesn't insinuate >anything romantic between me and the Scarecrow? Actually, I was under the impression that in _The Patchwork Girl of Oz_ you could see the sparks virtually flying between the Scarecrow and Scraps. Bill, in the play version of _The Wizard of Oz_, Dorothy was accompanied by a calf named Imogene, presumably because a small dog on stage would not be very visible. This character was appropriated by Shanower in _The Giant Garden of Oz_. (Not that I'm complaining; Aaron and I have been seriously considering appropriating Danx and Trixie Tryfle.) Given all this talk of heretical books which overinject reality (or rather the worst aspects of reality) into Oz, I have gotten the idea for a book which would parody these attempts to get at "the real story." The book, which would be called _The Broad Side of a Barn in Oz_, would of course involve the more memorable charaters from these heretical works (especially Sharts and Blogo) and deal with the real story behind them and ridiculously unparsimonious explanations a la Farmer to explain all the problems in the heretical books. Blogo: Somehow I don't think that this is very funny. Wogglebug: Well, when it's revealed that you were created in a very strange accident involving a turkey and a rubber glove, it gets very amusing. Blogo: NO! ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 12:54:54 -0700 From: steller Subject: various Gili: The negative review of _Was_ was so good because it was written by Phyllis Ann Karr, who is a published writer (beyond her Ozian writings) of novels and Arthurian material. It is my hope to get opposing reviews of _Wicked_, although I have not yet found anyone who really liked it. Bill Wright: Dorothy's pet in the stage version of _The Wizard of Oz_ was a calf named Imogen. It would have been hard to get an actor in a dog suit. By the way, I have a British stage adaptation of _Wonderful Wizard_ in which Dorothy's pet is a mouse, that way you didn't need anyone to play the role. The author of that did a sequel called, as I recall, _The Scatterbrained Scarecrow of Oz_ (I am writing this in my office and my books are at home) which also has this mouse friend. I will check and see if it has a name (if anyone cares) and report back. *****ANOTHER FAIRUZA ALERT****** Fairuza Balk's next film to be released is _The Island of Doctor Moreau_ starring Marlon Brando. She plays a genetically engineered cat woman. This is due for release October 10, so you need not hold you breath. Aaron Solomon Adelman: I have no idea where to find the text of _The Tik-Tok Man of Oz_, it was never published. However a complete description of it ran in the _Baum Bugle_. I would have to look the exact source. _His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz_ is currently available in videotape (Books of Wonder has offered it for sale, and it is available elsewhere). Again, a complete description has been published in the _Bugle_, some years ago. The script was never published. Tyler: I would never dream of including _The Book of the Hamburgs_ or any of Baum's non-fantasy books in the canon because they have nothing to do with Oz; BUT the films and plays do deal with Oz and were written by the person who knew most about it. (I do not include the 1903 _Wizard of Oz_ because that was largely written by others. It is the fantasy novels of Baum such as _The Sea Fairies_, _Sky Island_ and _John Dough and the Cherub_ that I feel should be considered canonical, not _Aunt Janes' Neices_ or _The Boy Fortune Hunters_. If you reject the "Queer Visitors from the Land of Oz" stories (which is a more accurate title than _The Third Book of Oz_, an editor's name for a compliation of the stories and _The Wogglebug Book_ which had been expurgated as thoroughly as the BofW edition of _Patchwork Girl_), do you accept the "Little Wizard Stories" as full fledged members of the Ozian history. They were never part of the FF. I really believe that L. Frank Baum is a better source of information about Oz than a group of fifth graders who had never read an Oz book (with the possible exception of _The Wizard_ in their lives!!! Dave: _The Patchwork GIRL of Oz_ definitely does suggest a strong attraction between Scraps and the Scarecrow. Speaking of Ozma's marriage, L. Sprague de Camp had her married already in _Sir Harold and the Gnome King_. That's the end of my grumbles. SJT ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 18:27:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Gili: Well, differences are there, but not too great. I loved both _Was_ and _Barnstormer_. Aaron: Here is a list of the Laumer titles that I have, along with the dates that Laumer has assigned to them. Note that Laumer considers all FF titles to occur in the year of publication except for _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_ (1906) and _Road to Oz_ (1907). 1911 Uncle Henry and Aunt Em 1912 Careless Kangaroo 1944 Magic Mirror 1947 Frogman 1953 Umbrellas 1978 Green Dolphin (Ick!) 1983 Aunt Em and Uncle Henry (Not the same as 1911) 1984 Good Witch 1988 Charmed Gardens 1989 Fairy Queen 1991 Crown 1999 Ten Woodmen 2000 Farewell Titles that he has listed with dates that I do not have 1943 Vegetable Man 1984 In Other Lands 1990 China Dog Stepen: I will agree with Aaron on this: That adaptations such as _Return to Oz_ and _The Tik-Tok Man of Oz_ should not be considered Canononical as they do not meld with the FF or even the Baum 14. _Tik-Tok of Oz_ the book IS canononical in that it was a book written and published that DID (and does) meld with the FF. The fact that it was based on a stage play that was in itself based on an earlier book is immaterial. The book itself stands on its own as Historicall Accurate to the FF; the other offerings are not. Aaron and Dave and Chris (assuming Chris gets his e-mail turned on) I am now complying with Aaron and Chris in saying that stuff should go at the last year if it is a multi-year book, or possibly in the year that the main action takes place, especially if the book is about time-travelling. ON PLUTO'S MOON: On most moons, their "day" is as long as their "year". That is, the amount of time it takes to revolve is the same as it takes to orbit its parent. Therefore, the people on the planet would always see the same side, like our own Moon. I have also heard that Charon orbits Pluto in a fixed pattern travelling the same speed and direction as Pluto. Therefore, not only does the same side face Pluto, its position in the sky relative to Pluto is fixed. That is, Charon is always in the same place as viewed from Pluto. John and David: I agre that it is unlikely that Ozma would start Dorothy off on an adventure by involing her in an earthquake. It is true (as David said) that she would have trouble ruling if she kept a constant watch on Dorothy. David and Rich: Remember, though, that according to my theory, Dorothy was chronologically 13 when she moved to Oz permanently, but physiologicall 11, which could be considered several years younger than a 14 or 15 year old Ozma. Matt, who lives next door to me and is 8, considers himself to be MUCH older, wiser, more mature, etc. than his little brother of 5. :-) David again: I will almost definitely send _The Third Book of Oz_ off packing to Universe 4, which would resolve any contradictions. This book is simply not accurate to the FF, but may be accurate to just the first three. ********** ON THE LYRICS TO OVER THE RAINBOW ********** I have sent them to Ms. Chapman (or will after I finish this post). David and Aaron: For all practical purposes, there isn't a police force NOW, aside from the municipal governments. The only time that "justice is served" is when Ozma hears about something and then handles it herself. Melody: Autographs are usually not worth much as long as a person is alive (therefore, may your John Hancock always be worthless :-)), but the book itself is well worth the $25.00 asking price. Nathan Faut: Your comments of yesterday had two main points. 1: Ozma's boyfriend and 2: the general loss of innocence in non-FF writings. Your concerns with Ozma getting a boyfriend are ones that have been discussed before. One thing you mentioned was the fact that nowehere in the FF was it ever mentioned that Ozma has, is having or ever could have a romantic interest. My answer is "So what?" It seems, rude, but consider what would happen if people only wrote about stuff that had already happened and people, places etc. that were already there and NEVER put in anything new. Oz would have died years ago. We HAVE to invent things every time somebody writes a new Oz book. Even Baum himself did this as early as _The Land of Oz_. I cannot accept the logic of "If x has never been mentioned in the FF, then x can NEVER happen ANYWHERE EVER". While the FF is the foundation of Ozzy history, it is not the complete end-all and be-all of Oz. If it were, there would be no need to write any other Oz books, because everything would have been said, seen and done in the FF. As for ruining Ozma, that has also been discussed. I will breifly summarize my conclusions here. I believe that a change of situation, either by giving the character new experiences or by engaing in simple character development, is not the same as a personality change. That is, while giving Ozma a boyfriend is definitely a change of pace from the FF and will also broaden her character from what we have seen in the FF, it will not make her into a different person. She will still be the same sweet, gentle, kind, caring compassionate person that we all know. The disagreement here seems to stem from the question "Can we have a love story without it degenerating into a sick prono fantasy?" I say yes, provided the author is good enough. I will assume for the moment that Dave has the ability to pull this off :-) But what about the general loss of innocence that permeates the non-FF titles? Well, I will admit that the childlike atmosphere was that which gave Oz its original success and as Rob Rhein (no Oz connection) once said, "What got you there is what's gonna keep you there". However, there comes a time when you want something more "meat", to use a word that has also caused a lot of discussion on the digest. Part of the price of growing up is that dancing down the YBR in a land of sunshine and lollipops is no longer enough. Every once in a while, we crave more. Don't misunderstand me. I am not belittling your point of view. It is precisely that vision of Oz which has made it so enduring throughout this entire century. It is a vital part of Oz, but only one part. To put it another way, someone on this digest once asked us "Can't we just read the Oz books and enjoy them just becuase they are fun stories?" My answer to that question is two-fold. Yes, I can do that, but I cannot JUST do that. I can enjoy the Oz books on that level some times, but not all the time. Tyler: Boy, what a nice story!. Dave: Yes, that story was really nice. Tyler: What was it about? Dave: I can't remember, but it sure was nice. Tyler: Yes, if there's one thing it was, it was nice. [T & D breathe a long sigh of contentment] That just won't do it for me anymore. So yes, Oz is a place of escapist childlike innocence, but it is also a lot more and Oz books that are written that way are just as much Oz books as the other kind, as long as they do not textually contradict the FF, of course. --Tyler "Super long post" Jones ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 16:42:53 -0400 From: David A Gerstein Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-04-96 BILL WRIGHT: The name of Dorothy's animal sidekick in the 1902 play is Imogene. She is a cow. And, if I'm not mistaken, a recent Oz book from, I believe, Books of Wonder, included the character (but gave her an origin within Oz). I recall that in this book, Imogene had a hobby of giving unusual kinds of flavored milk (butterscotch, etc.). Very enjoyable book -- was it THE GIANT GARDEN OF OZ? (I read it while sleeping over at a friend's house a year ago; the friend had lots of recent Oz books and I can't recall precisely which one this was!) David Gerstein <96dag@williams.edu> ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 19:58:25 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-04-96 Gili: Actually, I don't think WICKED is a bad book. It's not a great book, but it has some very good parts in it, and Maguire definitely knows his Oz, at least through the Baum books. He twists and distorts it in ways that may offend a lot of Oz fans, but as a book it holds up quite decently. If it had been written as an ordinary fantasy without the specific Ozzy references, I don't think many people would have any problem with it - its world is no nastier than, say, Tolkien's. As an Oz book, of course, it's highly heretical; at least as much so as BARNSTORMER, and probably more. (BARNSTORMER at least accepted the general truth of WIZARD, with some relatively minor modifications; WICKED makes major modifications in WIZARD, and even more major ones in the rest of Baum.) Of course, I liked BARNSTORMER on the same basis - a good fantasy playing off the idea of Oz, though in no sense consistent with the FF. Why did you loathe it? Bill Wright: Someone else can probably answer this with more authority, but I'm pretty sure that Dorothy's pet in the original stage version of WIZARD was Imogene the cow. Which Shanower borrowed for a character in GIANT GARDEN, almost certainly on purpose. Steve Teller: I may have to see "The Craft" just to see if Fairuza turned into as pretty a young lady as she was a little girl. I've never seen anything she'd done besides RETURN. As far as I'm concerned, adaptations that didn't make the FF (meaning exclusive of TIK-TOK and SCARECROW - and SHAGGY MAN if you want to consider it an adaptation of JOHN DOUGH, although to my mind the resemblances, while obvious, aren't strong enough to justify that) are just as non-canonical as any other FF work (including, decidedly, the 1939 movie). Most, if not all of them, are in fact heretical, since they contradict the FF. But that's just my opinion; I'm hardly in a position to pronounce anything ex cathedra. (Of course, neither is anyone else...) Nathan Faut: I don't think the Tin Woodman axes Kalidahs in WIZARD - unless you mean when he cut the bridge he'd built as the Kalidahs were crossing so that they fell into the gulf. The only animals he killed directly with his axe were the wildcat that was chasing the queen of the field mice, and the wolves the WWW sent against them, as far as I can recall. (Not that this is really relevant to your argument, to be sure.) I pretty much agree with your opinion that Dave's FAIRY PRINCESS is going to be heretical. (If for no other reason, accepting it into the HACC would severely limit other writers, including myself. Future Oz stories and books I write, if any [and I have one story and two books in progress at the moment], are not going to include a romantic interest for Ozma. Nor, I think, will those of most other Oz authors.) But I've liked quite a few heretical books, and have every hope of liking his, too. I -don't- find the idea of Ozma having a romance, or even getting married, "repugnant". I just think that it interferes with the Oz universe as it has developed over the course of the FF and most of the subsequent books enough that it can't be accepted as something later authors should consider. (For that matter, I'd say the same about PATCHWORK BRIDE, though its overall effect would be far less.) Robin: I don't have my Latin dictionary handy, but I'm pretty sure that the Latin word for "lake" is "lacus". I know there's a "Lacus Solis" somewhere, I think on the Moon but possibly on Mars. (And astronomers use the terms "lake", "sea", "ocean", and such on dry worlds for large flat areas - e.g. the aforementioned "Lacus Solis", "Mare Imbrium", "Oceanus Procellarum", etc. on the Moon. So a "Lacus Quad" or something of the sort would be quite in order on Charon. Or a winding crack of some sort could be, say, "Flumen Winkiorum"... David Hulan ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 19:16:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-04-96 Bill "Piglet": I assume you refer to Dorothy's pet cow, Imogene? My .02 worth on reviews: If it bears the name Oz and/or is about Oz, it probably should be reviewed, even if we hate it. Maybe *especially* if we hate it, as long as we can still review it rationally and with appropriate elaboration to back up our main points. --Robin ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 22:49:34 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: Kansas Oz Theme Park For Ozzy Digest, I just attended an economic development meeting in Santa Fe. One of the attendees was the business advisor to the governor of Kansas, so I asked him if the Oz Park was really for real. He said that Kory (the promoter) had received a promise of critical financing from a wealthy Arab investor, that the presentation to the Kansas officialdom was well received, and that the outlook for the Oz Park was "encouraging." Let us hope! Best, Herm ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 23:03:57 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: misc DavidXOE@aol.com writes: > How could [Ozma] rule Oz effectively when she'd need to monitor > Dorothy's progress almost continuously? She may have taken a "vacation" and left the Scarecrow in charge. I suspect that watching Dorothy having adventures is one of Ozma's favorite pastimes. She certainly didn't mind doing it in ROAD. > And why would she do it in the first place? It's not as if she couldn't > have wished Dorothy - and the Wizard and the rest of Dorothy's > companions - to Oz directly, without all the underground stuff. Perhaps Ozma thought that Dorothy might not like being wished about when she (Dorothy) hadn't asked for it. But this wouldn't be a problem if Dorothy just "happened" to have an adventure. If Ozma did start Dorothy on her adventures in DORWIZ, then she (Ozma) was careful to pick a safer path in ROAD. She evidently had decided to tell Dorothy about it this time, using her birthday party as an excuse. That party may have been mostly just an excuse for bringing Dorothy to Oz. After Dorothy came to Oz permanently Ozma doesn't seem to have had any more birthday parties with so many international guests. Nathan Faut writes: > For instance, the Tin Woodman axes the Kalidahs in the original > story, rather brutally, if my memory serves me properly. The Tin Woodman had felled a tree to make a bridge across a gulf. When the Kalidahs tried to follow he chopped off the end causing the Kalidahs to fall and to be "dashed to pieces on the sharp rocks at the bottom". He did behead a cat that was chasing a mouse. He also beheaded the forty wolves that were slaves of Bastinda. For all we know these wolves might have been friendly and sweet tempered had they been freed from Bastinda's spell of enslavement. > And I still shiver when I think of the casual way that the Wizard kills > off the Wooden Gargoyles in DotWiz -- the Wizard makes some off-handed > remark that they were probably leading evil lives anyway, after torching > their village as the pair escape down the mountain's interior. That has always bothered me, too. It was so clearly unnecessary, since they had a good head start and the Gargoyles would never have followed them into the tunnel. Also, the Gargoyles were clearly good creatures who had reasonable laws. They couldn't stand sound, so that had a law against making noise, and lawbreakers were placed on the top of a tall building until they promised to be good. The Wizards words were: "Perhaps the flames will set fire to all that miserable wooden country, and if it does the loss will be very small and the Gargoyles never will be missed". That looks rather like genocide of a sentient race, just because their customs are a bit different. I hope that Ozma was watching with the Magic Picture and used the Magic Belt to discreetly put the fire out and to repair the wings and restore them to their rightful owners. Robin Olderman writes: > ... "Lake Quad." Actually, there probably are no lakes on Charon anyway. Billions of years ago the tremendous heat that was locked away inside Charon when it had formed suddenly burst forth as rivers of molten nitrogen flowing from the moons interior. The rivers converged to form a great ocean of boiling nitrogen, from which rose vapors that condensed to form a haze of fine nitrogen ice that shrouded the entire moon. Over time the sea cooled and froze, and was covered with a fine nitrogen snow. And thus was Lake Quad formed. :-) Dave Hardenbrook writes: > Don't be too sure...It's cold enough out there that there *could* be lakes > of liquid nitrogen! Actually, it's rarely *warm* enough for liquid nitrogen! In your letter to the naming committee perhaps you could give some examples the prove to them just how wonderful an Idea an Oz theme is. For instance: Scarecrow Rupes, Cowardly Linea, Big Enough Mons, Little enough Patera, Valles Hidden, Mare Soup, Deadly Planitia, Tattypoo Terra ... -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 23:58:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Heresy and other things 1) Bill, Dorothy's pet in the stage version of The Wizard of Oz was a calf named Imogene. From what I've heard secondhand, a cow by this name appears in The Giant Garden of Oz. 2) Stephen, Hah! Seems I'm beating Laumer to writing something called The Woozy of Oz (full text exists, 48,809 words in latest edition). Worst comes to worse, I'll change mine to The Lost Woozy in Oz. Any word on how much work Laumer had done? Also: Return to Oz (the novel) should go in the HI/RCC. That's Vincent Vinge who wrote it? As for parallels, so what? There are parallels between Kabumpo in Oz and Grampa in Oz, yet no one claims only one should go in the HACC. 2) Uh, Tyler, one could claim also that Lurline's Machine belongs in the main Oz universe and that Dave's should get their own, or that both require their own. Both Adelmanian and Hardenbrookian Oz would appear to me to be equally nonstandard--they both expand Oz and its characters in new directions. In Dave's case he brings probably the oldest immigrant so far into Oz and gives Ozma a love interest. In Lurline's Machine, foundations are given for the entire science of magic, the political situation is changed, and unexplored holes are looked into (as well as new ones formed). And as for Hardenbrookian Oz not affecting Adelmanian Oz, Barry and I have already modified our working model to be compatible with Dave's, the only exception being that in Dave's model Ozma and Dan stay married forever, while in our model they don't. 3) Dave, imagine this: Police officer: Mombi: What do you want? Officer: By order of Locasta the Good Witch of the North, you're under arrest. Mombi: As if the hecklers she's been sending her weren't enough! What for? Officer: You have a baby named Tippetarius? Mombi: What of it? Officer: There's only one kid named Tippetarius in Oz, and he definitely isn't your son. Therefore you have kidnapped him. Mombi: Nonsense! Now go away before I turn you into a toad. Tip: Waaaaaaaaaaaah! Mombi: Now look what you've done! You've made him cry. Officer: That kid fits the description I was given perfectly. Madame, the squad wagon is this way. Mombi: Officer: Locasta knew you would try that, so if you don't mind... Mombi: I'm innocent! This is really Pastoria's daughter. I just transformed her... Officer: Tell it to the judge. 4) Nathan, I never heard Dan say anything about making Ozma and Dan do anything violent, unhealthy, or prone to spread nasty diseases around, and my brother and my combined character forces us to avoid going in certain directions that are improper for Oz (e.g., Barry will not allow violence to be used by the protagonists successfully to move closer to their goals, and I will not abide consumption of sentient beings in any way, shape, or form). No one is saying that we should expand characters in such directions as to change them into total slimeballs. What we're doing is expanding characters in directions that people actually take. 5) Uh, Melody, you're going to want to read the first chapter of The Woozy of Oz as soon as it comes out, trust me. Also, I don't see a huge leap in character between Tip-ward-of-Mombi and Ozma as protrayed by Baum. Though she adapts to courtly life, her behavior is characterized by stubborness and recklessness. See Ozma of Oz, The Emerald City of Oz, The Lost Princess of Oz, and Glinda in Oz, in the first two Ozma does something stupid and reckless and sticks with it, the day being saved by others who think more clearly, and the second two in which she does something stupid and reckless and has to sit around and wait to be rescued by someone else. Please note this behavior, if done by Tip-ward-of-Mombi would not be surprising in the least; after all, it is reckless and stupid to play practical jokes on a wicked witch time and time again. It's only later that she really changes her behavior; under Thompson she becomes a wimp, and under Neill an idiot (but then again, everyone in Neill's books are beyond stupid). Fortunately, later writers make her act more intelligently. Now I'm curious of how Tippetarius-apprentice-of-Zim behaves after disenchantment. 5) Dave, strangely enough, I have no objections to you marrying Glinda off. I can always claim that they got a divorce and later Glinda married Button-Bright. Saladin: I call myself Saladin in 2097. Button-Bright is a name for a kid. Sorry, Saladin. Then again, Dave, you could always write about him falling into the molasses pit... Also: I believe that the FF does insinuate romantic feelings between Scraps and the Scarecrow. When they meet in The Patchwork Girl of Oz, there is definitely some sort of attraction between them. (The Scarecrow is not beneath being attracted to the transformed Peg Amy in Kabumpo in Oz as well.) That the Scarecrow and Scraps would get married at some point seems to me to be unsurprising then. Reera coming out of her shell is more surprising, though still psychologically believable. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 22:07:16 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Hello, Digest! Thank you for all your words of encouragement and "professional" commentary regarding my Ozzy story FLYING MONKEYS, or whatever I'm going to call it. Actually, could I use some of the already-named winged monkey characters-- don't I need to come up with my own or use some more Public Domain-ish? The band that wants to show up in my story is along the more mischevious (albeit good-natured) side-- Banana, Binini, Bonono, Bununu, and Billina (honorary title only) I wanted to save this its own question-- what do you think about the villan? It seems that Gwigg (the evil sorceror from the village of the Magaboos) after being re-planted, has surfaced in OZ and wants revenge on the Wizard and Dorothy. I know people think that he comes from one of (if not THE) darkest book. . . You know what my friend suggested-- The Terminator in Oz. (Sigh) I think he was going for the high-concept Hollywood movie thing with state of the art special effects. Until next time-- Danny ============================================================================= Date: Saturday 04-May-96 21:51:34 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CHARON: Gili wrote: >I think we should get unwired Oz fans to >sign the letter too. Maybe circulate a form with one of the next bugles... This is a good idea! How would I go about submiting something like that to the Bugle? >Especially effective would be celebrity names, such as Ray Bradbury and >Martin Gardner. I could send the letter to these people, also to Carl Sagan and Frank Drake. Are there any other Ozzy-philes who are astronomers, or that at least (like Bradbury and Gardner) would have clout in the astronomical community? Bill W. wrote: >Why not enlist the >international reach of the I'net to promote the idea. We can put together a >set of pages that give the idea and background, host them at our sites, and >see if we can enlist a lot of mirror sites. This is a good idea too! (But it'll have to be somebody else who does it, since Delphi doesn't allow its users to set up their own web pages.) Tyler wrote: >I have also heard that Charon orbits Pluto in a fixed pattern travelling the >same speed and direction as Pluto. Therefore, not only does the same side >face Pluto, its position in the sky relative to Pluto is fixed. That is, >Charon is always in the same place as viewed from Pluto. That's correct. Pluto and Charon keep the same face towards *each other*, so not only do they each see only one side of the other, but they remain forever stationary in each other's sky. Other factoids about Charon: -- Charon's name can be pronounced either "SHAR-on" or "CARE-on". -- Charon is the largest moon in the Solar System in proportion to its parent planet (nearly half as big as Pluto!). -- Charon appears larger in its parent planet's sky than any other moon in the Solar System (eight times the size of the moon in Earth's sky). -- Pluto and Charon are the largest members of a family of small, icy bodies that lie at the outer edge of the Solar System. Although usually the outermost planet, Pluto's eccentric orbit has currently brought it and Charon closer to the sun than Neptune, and with maximum proximity to the sun, tempratures on the two worlds have soared to ~350 degrees below zero F. TYLER AND AARON: Thank you for your "pro-Dan" comments! :) MARCH LAUMER: I received a letter from March Laumer today. He is now back in the states and we can order his books from him now (But we have to hurry -- he returns to Sweden in late June he says!). The Oz books of his that he has available are: Aunt Em and Uncle Henry in Oz (US $15.00) The Green Dolphin of Oz (US $25.00) A Fairy Queen in Oz (US $15.00) The Umbrellas of Oz (US $15.00) A Farewell to Oz (US $15.00) Wooden Soldiers of Oz (editor) (US $15.00) Underground Kings of Oz (translator) (US $15.00) Listed prices include postage and he asks that all checks be made payable to himself (March Laumer). Anyone who has read these books care to comment on them? -- Dave ============================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 5, 1996 (Addendum) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 04:19:39 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest For Tyler Jones: Just catching up on recent Digests, and noted your interest in The Oz Scrapbook. Yes, it is still available in many libraries. If you want to own a copy, I have one for sale, almost mint condition in dust jacket, for $40 plus shipping. If you prefer a lesser (cheaper) copy, let me know, and I will look for one. Herm Bieber ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 09:33:09 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-04-96 << From: DavidXOE@aol.com As others have pointed out, the lyrics to "Over the Rainbow" can't be legally posted on the Net. But it would be easy enough to quote them in a private E-mail to Ms. Chapman, and legal as far as I know. >> You might want to check the Lyrics Page.... http://archive.uwp.edu/pub/music/lyrics/ The direct URL for Over the Rainbow [came up as]: http://archive.uwp.edu/cgi-bin/lyr.songs?g/garland.judy/over_the_rainbow#1 If it doesn't go straight through, the first URL will be the search area. It also lists a preamble in the song *not used* in the movie (or any recording of it *I've* ever heard). For my birthday last Monday I received a (new?) CD now available called "Behind the Scenes at the Making of The Wizard of Oz: the complete NBC 'Maxwell House Good News' radio broadcast of June 29, 1939," in which Judy Garland, Ray Bolger, Frank Morgan and Bert Lahr promote the MGM film which was about to open. It contains the first ever live performance Garland singing "Over the Rainbow." The NBC orchestra uses Stothart's actual musical arrangements, so while sometimes the tempo may be a bit slow at times for the singing, it the right flavour of instruments. As the cast members promote the film and sing selections from it, they include lyrics not used in the final film. Some were more *thankfully* removed, such as Bolger's line, "And perhaps I'd deserve y' and be even worthy erv y'...." but more interesting is the lyric AFTER Lahr's normal concluding "Huh?!" in "King of the Forest:" "A carriage is the thing of kings, Which carraige I'd be king of kings, And the whole year long, I'd be hailed and crowned, By every living thiiiiiing.... If I, if I, if I..... were King....!" (I know it's more pronounced "fie" but you get the idea). ====== << From: steller Subject: various -----FAIRUZA ALERT----- All fans of Fairuza Balk (Dorothy in the 1985 _Return to Oz_) should know that her new film is _The Craft_ which has a saturation opening this week. Perhaps the distributor thought he could sneak it through before the reviews came in. From the review I read I see Fairuza plays an (sic) witch wannabe. She played an apprentice witch in the made for television movie _The Worst Witch_, which was fun, about 10 years ago. The reviewer of _The Craft_ said Balk was the one bright spot in an otherwise mediocre film. >> I saw "The Craft" yesterday, as I felt I could not complain about it without seeing it. Fairuza made a very good character filled with anger and rage. While the film does NOT accurately portray witchcraft as the nature loving religion it is (Wicca), the writers *have* done their homework regarding ritual, etc. and seeming to possess a working knowledge of the Craft, although even these are loaded with errors (kids, don't try these at home! ). Unfortuntely, the film neglects to stress that these girls are Self Taught, and therefore this is why they allow themselves to lean towards the dark side of magick (manipulative and/or negative, a *Major* No No in the actual religion of Wicca). I was impressed it did remind of the Threefold Law: whatever one does (to oneself or others) returns to us three times over. As the girls had no actual teacher of the Craft, the film neglects to stress the most basic Wiccan law: "An' that if harms NONE, do what thou wilt" (do whatever you want in your life [including taking personal responsibility for your own actions], but NEVER do harm to another, or yourself). And so like Hollywood, this film considers that "witches" in the Great Big Outside World are "automatically" Carrie or Samantha, able to manipulate reality at a mere thought. Witches are *not* Q (Star Trek: TNG). Witches worship nature via a polytheistic faith of a god and goddess that represent the very duality of nature. There are Dieties for nearly everything (this film neglects the goddess completely, refering to some unknown entity Balk seems to pronounce as "Mennell;" it would have been at least an interesting joke to refer to him as "Manos" [as in "Mystery Science Theatre 3000"]...). The semi-comedy/semi-thriller film is not as (unintentionally?) funny as the Julian Sands film "Warlock" (or as insipidly stupid as "Warlock II"), but it is Extremely Brainless Entertainment (ie, little substance), and it has a few good chills here and there. Sent Sunday the 5th, I'm off to celebrate Beltane in NYC's Central Park.... -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking." Geoff Gould aka < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 09:33:13 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-05-96 << From: "W. R. Wright" Nathan: > For instance, the Tin Woodman axes the Kalidahs in the original story, rather brutally, if my memory serves me properly. Actually, it's a wildcat that gets axed. Didn't seem all that brutal to me. Just one clean stroke and voila!, the problem is solved. No blood, no mess. >> I still remember a Kalidah being impailed by Capt. Salt and it cursing at him for merely pinning it to the ground, it being immortal and all. ========== << From: steller Subject: various *****ANOTHER FAIRUZA ALERT****** Fairuza Balk's next film to be released is _The Island of Doctor Moreau_ starring Marlon Brando. She plays a genetically engineered cat woman. This is due for release October 10, so you need not hold you breath. >> I wonder if one will see more than in her uninteresting version of "Dangerous Liaisons".....<> She's done up in "annoying [inaccurate "stereotypical"] "witch" Goth[ic] bad teenager" makeup, which, when she smiles, gives her a creepy skull-like grin. And she smokes like a chimney throughout. As Mary Poppins might say, "Thoroughly unattractive." But then, it *is* her character. Sent Sunday the 5th, I'm off to celebrate Beltane in NYC's Central Park.... -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home." Geoff Gould aka < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 17:25:11 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-05-96 Bill W. and Dave - I also like the idea of an Oz/Charon website. I'd take care of this myself if I had the technical capabilitis... I think any campaigning we do should include information both about Oz, and about Charon. John White - I *Loved* your name suggestions, they sound perfectly irresistable. The only one that doesn't work as well in Latin as it should, is "Deadly Planiti". Perhaps in this one case, the entire name should be translated into Latin? Would this then be "Planitia Mortale"? I think that sounds better. Eric G. - Where have you dissappeared to? I liked your piece for the Bugle about the economy of Oz. :-) David H. - I didn't actually loathe "Barnstormer". I just disliked it intensly. Even not as an Oz fan, I don't think its a particularly well-written book: too little plot and too much anthropological "treknobabble" as Ken Cope would say. Also, not enough whimsy (with the one exception of Blogo the Rare Beast) and too much blowing up people with grenades. I felt no sympathy for any of the characters (except briefly, with Blogo, when he encounters the VERY rare beast), and no compulsion to visit any of the locales described. If I had the time to be more specific, I would... Personally, I was terrified of the Gargoyles, more so than of any of the "evil" creatures in any of the Oz books. Which still doesn't mean they deserved to die, only that I was relieved to see them go... Fairuza Balk - was excellent in "Valmont", which is based on "Dangerous Liasons" (she plays the role that Uma Thurman played in the version with Glenn Close). I also saw her in "Gas, Food, Lodgings", "The Worst Witch", a video clip about vampires, and as a young rape victim in a television movie. She is very beautiful, though in most of these movies she spent most of her time looking worried. I think nowadays she'd be typecast as the sexy young victim/heroine of a horror movie - let me know if either of the movies mentioned match this description! The Digests are growing long again.... :-) but I'm not complaining. I like it. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 10:56:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Flying Monkeys of Oz 1) Daniel, from what I've heard on this digest, they'll probably skin you alive if you use other people's characters without permission. Fortunately there are plenty of unnamed winged monkeys for you to choose from, so have fun creating a few of your own. Also, Gwigg should be a viable villian; I hadn't even thought of ressurecting him when I came up with the now defunct idea of bringing in practically every evil magic worker ever created into The Woozy of Oz (currently the number is down to 12 in that scene where there were formerly about 100). Why am I imagining Gwigg trying to rent Kaliko's slicing machine? 2) Goofy Oz book name I have to get out of my head: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly in Oz: I'm not sure what it's about, but= I think Glinda and the Ugly from the Brotherhood of Failures of Phreex would star in it. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 13:55:36 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-05-96 Barry: There definitely did seem to be a strong attraction between the Scarecrow and Scraps in PATCHWORK GIRL, but it then seemed to disappear for the next 80 years or so until PATCHWORK BRIDE. Even though they spent considerable time in each other's company in some of the subsequent books. Steve: Depending on what you mean by "really liked" WICKED, I thought you had such a review from me. I didn't think it was Wonderful, but my review was generally positive. (If you want a review that thought it was Wonderful, see if you can reprint the one the Los Angeles TIMES ran back in January or February sometime. It knocked that reviewer's socks off...) I think we may have a misunderstanding here on definitions of terms, with regard to "canonical" at least. To most of us (I think), the FF are "canonical", along with the Little Wizard stories and Baum's other fantasy books that are directly tied into Oz through characters who appear in Oz books (i.e. MO, DOT AND TOT, SANTA CLAUS, JOHN DOUGH, ZIXI, SEA FAIRIES, and SKY ISLAND are canonical, but TWINKLE AND CHUBBINS, MASTER KEY, ISLAND OF YEW, AMERICAN FAIRY TALES, ANIMAL FAIRY TALES, and POLICEMAN BLUEJAY aren't). But the movies and plays, even those that Baum wrote, are not only not canonical; for the most part they're heretical, since they contradict the canonical books. But nothing written by anyone other than Baum outside the FF is canonical in any sense. They're all apocryphal; they may be high-level orthodox apocrypha (books by FF authors outside the FF), lower-level orthodox apocrypha (books by other writers that don't contradict the FF), mildly heretical apocrypha (books that adhere to some fraction of the FF but diverge materially from others), or highly heretical apocrypha (books that contradict most if not all of the FF). At least, that's how I understand the terms as they've generally been used on the Digest. Certainly nobody has said that the works of those fifth-graders in Albuquerque (I think it was) should be accorded more weight than Baum's plays. But I, and I think a lot of others, don't think either should be accorded any appreciable weight. (Nor, indeed, should my own THE GLASS CAT OF OZ, or Karyl and Eric's QUEEN ANN IN OZ, or Barry and Aaron's THE WOOZY OF OZ.) Tyler: I assume that your description of Charon's position in the sky of Pluto means that it's in a...umm, geosynchronous would be wrong, maybe hadeasynchronous?...orbit? So that, in other words, it's always at the same declination and right ascension for any point on the surface of Pluto, moving slowly with respect to the stellar background. The laws of physics wouldn't let it sit at the same point with respect to the stars... >Remember, though, that according to my theory, Dorothy was chronologically >13 when she moved to Oz permanently, but physiologicall 11, which could be >considered several years younger than a 14 or 15 year old Ozma. Matt, who >lives next door to me and is 8, considers himself to be MUCH older, wiser, >more mature, etc. than his little brother of 5. :-) But you were the one who said that maybe Dorothy was an "early bloomer" who appeared to be her chronological age of 13 when she was physiologically 11...my argument remains the same, that if Dorothy appeared to be 13 or so, and Ozma 14 or 15, Baum wouldn't have said she appeared several years younger, or much younger, or however he phrased it. Dorothy presumably must have appeared about 11, give or take a year; if she'd been born 13 years before EC, I would expect this to have been remarked on by her aunt and uncle in the context of what kind of work she might be able to do if they were kicked off the farm. There isn't exactly a police force, but PATCHWORK GIRL shows that there is at least some kind of legal system in Oz, even if it isn't invoked very often. This appears to be a post-Ozma development, though. Aaron: It was Joan, not Vincent, Vinge who wrote the novelization of RETURN TO OZ. I seem to recall they were once married but are no longer, but that's only a vague recollection and no on should put any weight to it. Danny: I don't think you could use Anfuso's names for the Winged Monkeys from his book, but none of the names you mentioned were among those he uses, so you're safe there. Dave: Can't we pronounce Pluto's moon "TCHAY-ron", as if it were English (our language), or "KHAH-ron", as if it were Greek (the language it came from), instead of what amount to a French or a Latin version? David Hulan ============================================================================= Date: Sunday 05-May-96 11:13:17 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DAVID HULAN (FROM YESTERDAY): You seem to be arguing that a permanent love relationship for Ozma MUST be deemed historically inaccurate because it puts a shackle on other writers. But can't other writers just not mention him? As Tyler has observed, Dan could be off on a diplomatic mission or something. Also, in my own mind, I imagine that Dan could be a a very low-profile spouse like Mrs. Columbo or Bess Truman. :) DAVID HULAN (FROM TODAY): >I think we may have a misunderstanding here on definitions of terms, with >regard to "canonical" at least. Maybe this should be a new section in the FAQ... >But nothing written by anyone other than Baum outside the FF is canonical in >any sense. They're all apocryphal; they may be high-level orthodox apocrypha >(books by FF authors outside the FF), lower-level orthodox apocrypha (books >by other writers that don't contradict the FF), mildly heretical apocrypha >(books that adhere to some fraction of the FF but diverge materially from >others), or highly heretical apocrypha (books that contradict most if not all >of the FF). By this definition (which is I think is pretty much accurate), _Fairy Princess_ will *NOT* be heretical because it will be FF-compliant. ( Unless you *insist* that Ozma's having a love interest fatally contradicts Ozma's "I will never marry" statement in _Kabumpo_, in which case such classics as Jane Austin's _Emma_ and Louisa May Alcott's _Little Women_ commit "heresy" within *THE SAME STORY* because they have heroines who ardently pledge alligence to eternal celebacy, and then change their minds when love finally comes their way! -- After all, can't a girl change her mind? :) ) > ... So that, in other words, [Charon is] always at the same >declination and right ascension for any point on the surface of Pluto, moving >slowly with respect to the stellar background. The laws of physics wouldn't >let it sit at the same point with respect to the stars... Er, if Charon had a fixed declination and right ascension, then it *would* be stationary with respect to the backround stars. You mean Charon has a fixed *azimuth and altitude* in Pluto's sky (and Pluto in Charon's sky!) >Can't we pronounce Pluto's moon "TCHAY-ron", as if it were English (our >language), or "KHAH-ron", as if it were Greek (the language it came from), >instead of what amount to a French or a Latin version? I only gave you the pronounciations the astronomy books give...The Greek pronounciation you give is probably permissable, but an English "Ch" sound would be incorrect. DRAWING OZMA: I'm currently working on the illustrations for _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_. I use celebrities for models of many of the characters. For jexample I use Irish singer Enya for Glinda and Goldie Hawn for Polychrome. But I'm stumped for a model for Ozma! My impulse was to use figure skater Oksana Baiul, but I'm already using her for one of the Adepts, and no one else seems sweet or Ozzy enough for the "job"...So does anyone have any idea who might be ideal as Ozma? ( If only I had a sweetheart -- then there would be no problem! :) ) -- Dave ============================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 6, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-05-96 (Addendum) Dave, I was glad to learn of the lyrics site, and pleased that Randy Goldberg went to the trouble of transcribing "Over the Rainbow" by Randy Goldberg. Careful readers will want to know, though, that the transcription was a little off: the line about lemon drops should read: "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops that's where you'll find me." The transcriber also mis-keyed "lullaby" as "lullabye." Peter ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 18:52:56 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: Dorothy's Pet For Bill Wright I dug out the playbill from Judy's collection for the original Fred Hamlin production of the Wizard of Oz play starring Montgomery and Stone. There is no mention of a dog. The only character that could be a pet is: "The Cow named Imogene, Dorothy's playmate" played by Joseph Schrode Herm Bieber ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 16:37:58 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff >Actually, it's a wildcat that gets axed. Didn't seem all that brutal >to me. Just one clean stroke and voila!, the problem is solved. No >blood, no mess. But what about the piles of dead bees (after stinging the Woodman) and the wolves beheaded by the same? > >Fairuza Balk's next film to be released is _The Island of Doctor >Moreau_ starring Marlon Brando. She plays a genetically engineered >cat woman. >This is due for release October 10, so you need not hold you breath. I wondered if this was ever going to be a movie. This is one of the first Wells book I ever read and it _freaked_ me out. With the implications of genetic tampering and popularity of Jurassic Park, et al. . . Well, it just better be good. > >> And I still shiver when I think of the casual way that the Wizard >>kills off the Wooden Gargoyles in DotWiz -- the Wizard makes some >>off-handed remark that they were probably leading evil lives anyway, >>after torching their village as the pair escape down the mountain's >>interior. > >The Wizards words were: "Perhaps the flames will set fire to all that >miserable wooden country, and if it does the loss will be very small >and the Gargoyles never will be missed". That looks rather like >genocide of a sentient race, just because their customs are a bit >different. I'm curious as to the motives of the Wizard when he first came to Oz, as the first book mentions him appropriating the role of a psuedo-god, ordering the construction of the EC and ruling out of intimidation. I believe that until he returns to Oz a second time, Mr. Diggs retained a lot of American sentiment of the late 1800's-- growing up with ideas of manifest destiny and Monroe doctrine. Later, in Oz under Ozma he learned to accept people (and creatures) for who they are. Paraphrasing Dorothy, he is a good man, just a bad public administrator. > >I received a letter from March Laumer today. He is now back in the >states and we can order his books from him now Um, Dave, is there an address or something? Also, wasn't there some speculation a few months back that Pluto itself may be reclassified as moon? Whew! Sorry for the long post, Danny ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 17:47:26 -0700 From: steller Subject: Various Anyone wanting a genuine sequel to DOTWIZ and wanting to learn the later history of the Mangaboos, the valley of Voe, the Wooden Gargoyles, and the Dragon family must read _Seven Blue Mountains, Vol 1. The Disenchanted Pruncess of Oz_; it's all there Supplement to my last entry: (1) The British play in which Dorothy has a pet mouse is _The Wizard of Oz_ ) 1971 by Alfred Bradley, who also wrote _The Scatterbrained Scarecrow of Oz_ ) 1976. These were published by by Samuel French, but I had to go to their bookstore, 12 Fitzroy Street, London W1P 6JR, to get my copies. (2) the article in the _Bugle_ about _The Tik-Tok Man of Oz_ was in Sp 78: 4-8; the article on _His Majesty the Scarecrow of Oz_ was in Sp 73: 8-10. Anyone collecting beautifully illustrated editions of _Wizard_ should know there is a new British skillfully abridged edition with color illustrations by Gill Guile. I found a single copy in a B. Dalton's store in Tulsa, and a second one in a B. Dalton's in Joplin, MO. Apparently B. Dalton's apportions only one copy to a store, and the stores are unable to order more. So if you want a copy be the first to get to you local store. The sale price is $5.98. You can be sure it will be worth a lot more in fifty years. Aaron S. Adelman: I believe in was Joan Vinge who did the novelization of _Return to Oz_, however there was another adaptation of the movie for children by Alistair Hedley published by Puffin Books which is very interesting and contains insights not in the film. Concerning Laumer books: _Green Dolphin_ is one of the strangest books ever offered for sale. The first 80% has absolutely nothing to do with Oz, the last chapters related to an Oz fragment by Baum, I do not recommend this one. _Aunt Em and Uncle Henry_ involves those two characters visiting the house that brought Dorothy to Oz the first time, and the spirit of WWE invades Aunt Em (the exact same theme is in the not available _Uncle Henry and Aunt Em_). _Fairy Queen_ will tell you why Lulea changed her name to Lurline. _Umbrellas_ concerns WWW's and Button Bright's umbrellas. I have not yet read _Farewell_. The two translated books of Volkov titles. By the way Dave: How do we order these books before March returns to Sweden? Give up his address. On the subject of Baum's use of "meat": I just read the following passage from _Our Landlady_ 9 August 1890 (nine years before _Wizard_). Mrs. Bilkins, the Landlady is reporting a conversation she had overheard: "'This idea o' kissin' through a goose quill,' continued the gal, 'is my own inwention [sic]]. You get a kiss just the same only it's removed to a respectful distance. Do you feel able to go through the ordeal. Hi?' "'You bet I do,' says the feller,'let's have it!' "Then I heard a sound like as if some one had pulled his foot out o' wet mud an th' feller yells, "'Why, Gene,you've pulled a piece out o' my cheek!' "'On, no, that's the beauty o' the thing, you know when you've got kissed. How do you like it?' "'Oh, under some circumstances it's all right, but I think I like a meat kiss better.'" So you see, for Baum, "meat" did not necessarily mean flesh intended as food. Farewell for now. I', off to see _The Craft_. ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 21:11:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Tyler >Autographs are usually not worth much as long as a person is alive. Like many other things it depends. It depends on what author, what book, what condition, how scarce, etc. Take a look in your local bookstore and see what the difference is between autographed and un-autographed copies. You may faint. Tyler >But what about the general loss of innocence that permeates the non-FF titles? Well, I will admit that the childlike atmosphere was that which gave Oz its original success and as Rob Rhein (no Oz connection) once said, "What got you there is what's gonna keep you there". No argument here. >However, there comes a time when you want something more "meat" If you want meat, go to a butcher shop! Not the "sugar plum" shop. >It is precisely that vision of Oz (sugar plums) which has made it so enduring throughout this entire century. Tyler, you have certainly convinced me. I would guess that most will continue to enjoy and follow the original spirit of Oz while a few will sit in their dark cells churning out heretical works for a limited audience. I just always wonder why they bother? Aaron >Return to Oz (the novel) should go in the HI/RCC. That's Vincent Vinge who wrote it? That's Joan D. Vinge, based on the screenplay by Walter Murch and Gill Dennis. Eric - You really have pull at CBS. WOZ is showing, at least here in The Valley of the Silicons, on Friday night, May 10th. They are obviously trying to compete with X-Files. Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 23:00:00 -0400 From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-05-96 (Addendum) Dave -- I'm trying to help the Oz club with its auctions. If convenient, please post the following for me: If anyone has an extra 1st ed. of Hidden Valley or Merry Go Round; or a Copelman illustrated Wizard of Oz or Magical Monarch of Mo; or the Ruth Thompson pamphlet The Gingerbread Man, I am looking to buy any or all of these for the International Wizard of Oz Club! Prices will be definitely above wholesale, but perhaps somewhere below retail. It's for a good cause! Patrick Maund ZMaund@AOL.com ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 23:42:40 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Gwig ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) writes: > It seems that Gwigg (the evil sorceror from the village of the > Magaboos) after being re-planted, has surfaced in OZ and wants revenge > on the Wizard and Dorothy. Well, he would certainly be a prickly and heartless villain. There is the problem that the Mangaboos normally only live for about five years, and it is not clear how much of their former self survives the replanting cycle. The sorcerer picked from Gwig's bush might have used his magic to avoid the replanting cycle. This kind of interference with the natural order of things usually has some bad side effects. In most universes the resulting being is usually twisted towards evil, and is unpleasant to be around (like the Nine Wraiths in Tolkien, and the liches of many RPGs). (Hmm, what would an undead vegetable be like? :-) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ============================================================================= Date: Sunday 05-May-96 21:23:29 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things LAUMER'S ADDRESS: If I may borrow a Gjovaagism: DOH! :) :) :) Sorry about that omission, everyone! His address is: March Laumer 1029-B 10th St., N.W. Largo, FL 34640 DANNY (CHARON): >Also, wasn't there some speculation a few months back that Pluto itself >may be reclassified as moon? Pluto *can't* be classed as a moon because it isn't orbiting anything except the Sun. Some astronomers *DO* want to demote Pluto from a planet to a minor body known as a "Kuiper object" which can be thought of as either an icy asteroid or very large comet. The astronomer G.P. Kuiper first speculated that comets and other icy objects originated in a belt beyond Neptune. Some astronomers think Pluto is just the largest of the Kuiper Belt objects and should not be consiered a true planet. IMHO, Pluto should remain a planet because we've called it a planet for 66 years, and I tend to be liberal about what constitutes a "planet". (I even consider the four large moons of Jupiter, and Saturn's atmosphere-possessing moon Titan to be "planets", even though they orbit other planets.) "MATCHMAKER, MATCHMAKER, FIND GLINDA'S MATCH..." :) :) : In the wake of the Ozma-Dan debate, some people have brought up the possibility ( after Ozma and Dan are nicely settled :) ) of my marrying *Glinda* off as well...So I am curious to everyone's opinion about who would be a good match for Glinda. Sorry Laumer fans, but I just can't see it at all: Glinda and Button-Bright??? IMHO totally impossible!!!...... Jodie Foster and Deng Xiaoping *MAYBE* :) :) :) , but not Glinda and B-Bright! -- Dave ============================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 7, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ========================================================================== Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 22:48:45 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: To all who responded to the question about Dorothy's pet in the original stage play, many thanks. Herm provided confirmation direct from an original playbill; it is indeed Imogene the Cow. The question originally came to me from the Chipping Sudbury School near Bristol, England. (I think it is a grammar school type.) Seems there is some kind of contest that the school is entered into, and this is one of the questions they had to answer. I'm trying to find out a little more about the contest, and if it sounds like something that would be of interest to the Digest, I'll pass on the details. BTW, I'll be gone to Norway tomorrow, so I'll miss the next two and half weeks of the Ozzy Digest. I wonder how long it will take me to read them all when I get back. :-} Bill W. ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 02:06:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest WOW! Two digests in one day. This hasn't happened in quite a while. Not counting Melody's excellent essay, which was more of an attachment TO the digest rather than an extension OF it, but I loved it anyway! :-) Steve Teller: On "Extra" stuff being admitted into the canon: As someone said yesterday, nobody (including myself) actually has the authority to decide what is "real" Oz and what is not, with the exception of Baum himself, and he has long since left us. By canononical, do you mean the baseline by which other books must conform to in order to be considered historically accurate? I personally believe that only published books that are accurate to the FF should be considered Historically Accurate and that ONLY the FF is canononical. IMHO, I do not think that the canon should ever be expanded, even with stuff that was written by original historians, including Baum. It must be remembered that plays and other writings by Baum and others were not meant to be presented as mainstream Ozzy history by the authors, although some material (like the little Wizard stories) can be included in the HACC, as they are accurate to the FF, but I believe that the FF is the FF is the FF :-) I will go with the majority of people on this digest, and say that there was definitely an attraction between the Scarecrow and Scraps in _Patchwork Girl_. Oh, yes, there really was :-) Stephen Teller: I believe that Mike Burns, who lives on this digest, was very impressed with _Wicked_. On Ozm's marriage: For some reason that I cannot remember, I found _Sir Harold and the Gnome King_ to be inaccurate to the FF. David and others: As Dave and I have stated before, an addition to Ozmas court (even Ozma's boyfriend) would not necessarily shackle other writers. It is not necessary that every character be mentioned in every book. If somebody, even somebody important, is not mentioned, we can assume that he is there anyway and simply had nothing to say, or that he was away on a mission. John White: ********** SPOILER FOR DISENCHANTED PRINCESS ********** In this story, our heroes take a tour of the places visited in DOTWIZ and they found the Gargoyle country to be a charred mass of burnt wood. Of course, it is possible that Ozma relocated the gargoyles to some safe place in Oz. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Aaron: It was in fact YOU who suggested that the Lurlines machine series be given its own Universe, since it was so different from other peoples work. I claim that the mere existence of a boyfriend for Ozma does not necessitate a separate Universe, even when combined with the "truth" of the Good Witch of the North, but that a complete description of the source of magic that you plan does. Of course, this trend should not be carried to its extreme conclusion, because then each book would be in its own Universe and any continuity would be destroyed, and I sill think that some level of continuity is important. Aaron: Current HACC theory has it that the Mombi we see in Neills book is not THE Mombi. She is only a magical animation drawn by Jack Pumpkinhead and brought to life with the magic that the Wizard mixed into the paint. Therefore, she was the manifestation of what Jack believes Mombi to be. "She" would be able to draw only upon the knowledge of Jack for memories, etc. and a little bit of paint for actual magical power. Danny: bring Gwigg back! We saw too little of him in DOTWIZ. Of course, it would be more likely that this person is Gwiggs desendant, eager for revenge against his revered ancestor (they only live about five years, after all), but Gwigg himself could return with the right amount of encouragement (by that I mean magic) and some more magic to allow him to live longer than 5 years. Speaking of that, Danny, you may want to read _Disenchanted Princess_ for some more info on the vegetable people! It's expensive, but worth it! :-) Danny again: Terminators in Oz? I won't even mention the book one of MY friends wanted me to write (wink, wink) :-) Dave: I'll give a capusle review of some Laumer books right now: Aunt Em and Uncle Henry: Decent Green Dolphin: Oh, Ick! Choke, gasp, wheeze!!!! :-( Fairy Queen: Very good :-) Umbrellas: Good Farewell: Decent. Note that "Farewell" is Laumers own attempt to end the Oz series. Herm: Thanks for the info on the Oz Scrapbook, but I already have a copy! :-) Badger: I will defer to you on the Wiccan faith, since I know next to nothing about it, except that it is very oriented toward nature. Badger again: I believe that Kalidah was impaled by Cap'n Bill in _Magic of Oz_ David: [_Patchwork Bride of Oz_] If you look on the HACC, you will see that Chris and I have placed it between _Tik-Tok_ and _Scarecrow_. Our reasoning is that the ceremony was performed by the Good Witch of the North, as ruler of the Gilikin country. The only time that there was a GWoN who was also ruler of the Gilikin country was before _Giant Horse_. The book could not have taken place after that date and, of course, it also must have taken place after _Patchwork Girl_. With no other info, I originally placed it right after _PAtchwork Girl_, following my rule of placing books with closed ranges at the earliest possible time. However, Chris talked with the author, and they finally decided that this book took place just before the Scarecrow came to visit Glinda in _Scarecrow_. The only question that remains is "Why has the marriage never been mentioned in later FF books?" If you will remember, they finally decided that the marriage should only be acted upon at certain times and in certain places, therefore, for most of the time, they were simply Scraps and the Scarecrow, and the marriage was considered their private business. David: My arguements for Dorothys age are based on comments in _Lost Princess_, where Baum says that Dorothy is a year older than Trot and a year younger than Betsy, and _Giant Horse_ when Trot says "me too" in reference to Prince Philadors remaining ten for many years. Trot may not have been ten, of course: she may have simply identified with Philador to the extent of remaining the same age. Perhaps some of the first six Baum books should be moved back a year or two. Dave and David: I like David analysis of the gradations (or degrees) of heresy regarding Oz books, based on by HOW MUCH of the FF they agree with. Dave: Please don't laugh, but I would have suggested Alicia Silverstone for Polychrome! :-) How about a young Lynda Carter for Ozma? Please, I beg of you, NOT CHRISTINA RICCI! :-) How about Anna Chlumsky (sp?) for Dorothy? I would have suggest (miss X) for Dorothy, but she chose not to be my sweetheart, so I won't :-( Get this: Johnathan Taylor Thomas for Button-Bright! :-) --Tyler Jones ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 14:33:51 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-96 Dave - how about Fairuza Balk as model for Ozma? :-) But there are lots of beauties out there. This is the age of supermodels. Patrick Maund - Is there much call for editions with the Copelman illustrations? I have one, but I never thought there was anything special about it, and I didn't know that people were especially anxious to collect it. I'll enjoy keeping it more now that I know that other people are after it! Ah, the selfish little joys of collecting... Gili :-) ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 09:20:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Kalidahs 1) Badger, wasn't it Cap'n Bill who impaled a kalidah? 2) I know this is going somewhat offtrack, but as I remember it in The Island of Doctor Moreau, sentient beings are created not through genetic engineering but through surgery. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 06:33:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 Going back a few days now... > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-02-96 > > Eric - could you check for me which Bugle has the article about the > Russian textbook? It just so happens I have a copy of the textbook > itself, I never knew it had ever been reviewed in the Bugle. This is the > only adaptation I know of in which the characters of Glinda and Ozma were > merged, so that "The Magic of Oz" could be a logical sequel to "The > Wizard of Oz", with noone noticing all that was missing inbetween... It's discussed (I wouldn't go so far as to say "reviewed") in the Christmas 1962 issue, and reprinted on page 51 of volume 2 of "The Best of 'The Baum Bugle'". > From: steller > Subject: various > > Eric: The lyrics to "Over the Rainbow" can be found in any edition of > the screenplay for The Wizard of Oz. Yes, I know that, and I told the person who was asking the same thing. But she was specificially asking about finding them on the World Wide Web. IMHO, "The Tik-Tok Man of Oz" and "His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz" should be considered earlier drafts of "Tik-Tok of Oz" and "The Scarecrow of Oz," respectively, and thus non-canonical. There are just too many differences and inconsistencies between them and the rest of Baum's books, but when he wrote the books he changed them so they would fit in with the rest of the series. Like "Barnstormer," I do not and can not consider "Wicked" to be in any way official. Unlike "Barnstormer," however, I actually enjoyed "Wicked." Dunno why, I just found it appealing. (One BIG boo-boo, though: the Emerald City was there and well established before the Wizard arrived? I don't think so...) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Rich: > Actually, we believe that _Quer Visitors_ and all the others which were > eventually combined in the volume _The Third Book of Oz_, took place > BEFORE _Ozma_, since Dorothy did not know about the newer characters. Hence the compilation's name, "The Third Book of Oz"... --Eric "One down, HOW MANY to go???" Gjovaag ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 06:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-05-96 > From: steller > Subject: various > > Fairuza Balk's next film to be released is _The Island of Doctor Moreau_ > starring Marlon Brando. She plays a genetically engineered cat woman. > This is due for release October 10, so you need not hold you breath. I saw a preview of this film at the convention I was at over the weekend. It looks REALLY cool. If Fairuza's in it as well, it may become a must-see instead of a would-like-to-see. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-04-96 > > Bill Wright: > Someone else can probably answer this with more authority, but I'm pretty > sure that Dorothy's pet in the original stage version of WIZARD was Imogene > the cow. Which Shanower borrowed for a character in GIANT GARDEN, almost > certainly on purpose. Just to clarify, however, the only similarity between the cows in "The Wizard" on stage and "The Giant Garden of Oz" is the name. Other than that, they are clearly not the same actual character. (Just in case anybody was wondering.) The former is from Kansas and doesn't talk, the latter is from Oz, can talk, and is magical. --Eric ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-05-96 (Addendum) Two Digests in one day? Hoo-boy... > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-04-96 > > For my birthday last Monday I received a (new?) CD now available called > "Behind the Scenes at the Making of The Wizard of Oz: the complete NBC > 'Maxwell House Good News' radio broadcast of June 29, 1939," in which Judy > Garland, Ray Bolger, Frank Morgan and Bert Lahr promote the MGM film which > was about to open. It contains the first ever live performance Garland > singing "Over the Rainbow." [rest deleted] For the record, this is not terribly new, I believe it came out in 1989 or 1990, along with all the other fiftieth anniversary stuff. I received the cassette as a prize at the Winkie Convention soon after its release. I must get the CD ASAP. I believe this was from a copy owned by Harold Arlen (or Yip Harbug, I can never keep them straight). Extra lyrics: > "A carriage is the thing of kings, > Which carraige I'd be king of kings, I believe that's: "For courage is the thing of kings, With courage I'd be king of kings..." > I still remember a Kalidah being impailed by Capt. Salt and it cursing at > him for merely pinning it to the ground, it being immortal and all. Er, don't you mean Cap'n Bill? I don't think Capt. Salt has been on land and in Oz long enough to have actually met a Kalidah... > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-05-96 > > Eric G. - Where have you dissappeared to? I liked your piece for the > Bugle about the economy of Oz. :-) I was off at a sci-fi/British convention out of town over the weekend. But I'm back now, and trying to catch up with everything, while still having to go to work this afternoon, and still suffering the aftereffects of a major, nasty cold. > Fairuza Balk - was excellent in "Valmont", which is based on "Dangerous > Liasons" (she plays the role that Uma Thurman played in the version with > Glenn Close). I also saw her in "Gas, Food, Lodgings", "The Worst Witch", > a video clip about vampires, and as a young rape victim in a television > movie. She is very beautiful, though in most of these movies she spent > most of her time looking worried. I think nowadays she'd be typecast as > the sexy young victim/heroine of a horror movie - let me know if either > of the movies mentioned match this description! Going back even further, right after "Return to Oz" I saw her in the film at the British Columbia pavilion at Expo 86 in Vancouver, playing a little BC girl (which she was at the time) named Molly, who shows an alien red ball around the province. Not as hokey as it sounds, and she was good. Going even further back, before "Return to Oz," she was in the early-80's TV adaptation of "The Best Christmas Pageant Ever," which gets trotted out every holiday season here in the States. (I very much doubt this would ever be shown in Israel...) It would be nice if the "Bugle" did a good interview with Fairuza, and included a complete filmography. > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Flying Monkeys of Oz > > 1) Daniel, from what I've heard on this digest, they'll probably skin you > alive if you use other people's characters without permission. That's what lawyers do... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > DRAWING OZMA: > I'm currently working on the illustrations for _Locasta and the Three Adepts > of Oz_. I use celebrities for models of many of the characters. For > example I use Irish singer Enya for Glinda and Goldie Hawn for Polychrome. > But I'm stumped for a model for Ozma! My impulse was to use figure skater > Oksana Baiul, but I'm already using her for one of the Adepts, and no one > else seems sweet or Ozzy enough for the "job"...So does anyone have any idea > who might be ideal as Ozma? ( If only I had a sweetheart -- then there would > be no problem! :) ) My suggestion: A young Courtney Cox, before "Friends." See if you can find the video for Bruce Springsteen's "Dancing in the Dark," or an episode of "Misfits of Science." But just don't copy her hair from those days... --Eric ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 06:47:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-04-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 > > Yeah, David B., what is a "random prime"? I was a math major in college, number theory was one of my favorite classes, and even *I* am wondering about this one... > From: cummingss@kenyon.edu > Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 05-03-96 > > I believe that March Laumer *DID* publish a book called IN OTHER LANDS THAN > OZ. He did. I have a copy. > From: steller > Subject: various > > Similarly, should Jack Snow's _Shaggy Man_ be considered a rewriting of > _John Dough and the Cherub_? There are some very close similarities > between the two. Not enough to warrant classifying them as the same book, IMHO. Otherwise "Tik-Tok" shouldn't be in the FF, since it's a rewrite of "Ozma." > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy stuff > > Eric: Great article regarding the economy and monetary system of our > favorite fairyland. (:-) Thanks. But it's been so long since I wrote that that I can't remember exactly what I wrote, so when I finally get around to reading this "Bugle" it will be a surprise to me as well. And I hope Patrick Maund will dig up the reply he gave to my piece once and send it in, it was quite good and filled in most of the gaps I missed. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30 through 05-03-96 > > A big earthquake in the Seattle area? Glad you survived it OK, and hope all > my other friends and acquaintances there did as well! FWIW, I never even felt it, and never knew it hit until I watched the news the next morning. But when I returned home later to pick up a few things, I found all kinds of stuff had fallen over. Fortunately nothing valuable or fragile. Oh, and Mr. Behring, THE KINGDOME CAME THROUGH JUST FINE! --Eric "Slowly getting there..." Gjovaag ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 07:23:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-96 > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > >Fairuza Balk's next film to be released is _The Island of Doctor > >Moreau_ starring Marlon Brando. She plays a genetically engineered > >cat woman. > >This is due for release October 10, so you need not hold you breath. > > I wondered if this was ever going to be a movie. This is one of the > first Wells book I ever read and it _freaked_ me out. With the > implications of genetic tampering and popularity of Jurassic Park, et > al. . . Well, it just better be good. Of course this is not the first film version of "Island," there have been at least two others. I even remember when the last one came out, in the late-70's. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > If I may borrow a Gjovaagism: DOH! :) :) :) Hey, I borrowed that from Homer Simpson! --Eric "Hey, I got through them all!" Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # *** DOCTOR WHO RETURNS TO TELEVISION IN 8 DAYS! *** *** TUESDAY, MAY 14, STARRING PAUL McGANN AS THE DOCTOR, ON FOX *** ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 10:39:47 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Charonic feature naming OK, how about this for a feature on Charon, which I'm surprised nobody mentioned: Possibly the only Oz feature visible from orbit (and somebody who actually _does_ have a knowledge of Latin (unlike me) please correct the endings, etc.?), Via Laterus Luteum (Yellow Brick Road), for a long, narrow feature. John White: > (Hmm, what would an undead vegetable be like? :-) An animated pickle comes to mind..... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 10:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Blogo the Rare Beast Having never read BARNSTORMER, and likely never will, just curious: is Blogo the Rare Beast any kin to the "Roast Beast" served up by the Grinch in "How the Grinch Stole Christmas?" --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 13:33:07 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: I had to get this out... More goofy titles: _Judge Dredd in Oz_: Judge Dredd: I am the law! Scraps: Krizzle-krazzle-kraw! He says he is the law! He'll spoil our fun If he can with his gun. Shall we let him do that? Pshaw! Somehow I suspect that this new movie version of _The Island of Dr. Moreau_ is going to be very freely (i.e., badly) adapted. The original book involved the use of "vivisection" (probably fairly standard surgical techniques), not genetic engineering, to produce non-human-derived people, and it certainly did not involve anything which looked like one of the cast members of _Cats_. Can anyone confirm the October release date? I have already seen promos for it. _Dr. Moreau in Oz_: Where on one of the Ozure Isles a mad scientist is using leatherworking techniques to make people out of singing shoes. ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 11:38:34 -0700 From: steller Subject: movies Dave Wall: Actually there have been several earlier films of _The Island of Dr. Moreau_. There was one in the thirties with Charles Laughton entitled _Island of Lost Souls_. I have not seen it. I have now seen _The Craft_. It is certainly not a masterpiece, but it is not as bad as some critics have claimed. I was watching StarTrek Voyager last night, and one of the characters looked like Margaret Pellegrini (the Munchkin). Does anyone know if it was she, I could not find her name in the credits, but the role was a small one. I hope to see her in Sedan, KS later this month and would like to mention it to her. There were two references to the MGM film in the program: "There's no place like home" and "click your heels together three times . . ." which indicate that the movie will still be an icon 400 years in the future. That's all for today. SJT ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 14:30:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Danny: I think the point that Bill was trying to make is that while there was violence and death in _Wizard_, Baum did not go into graphic detail about blood, guts and other stuff. The victims simply stopped moving and that was it. Of course, Dorothy expected to "see a terrible sight" when Gwig was sliced down the middle, but as we know, she didn't. Danny again: I seriously doubt that the Wizard had a motive for coming TO Oz, but he may have developed a power-hungry attitude once there. Depending on how much non-FF material you accept, and of course your interpretations of events, it seems that the Wizard built the Emerald City and went into hiding for a two-fold purpose: protect himself from the Wicked Witches and to secure his power in the green land. Danny and Dave: I take a rather centrist approach to planets. I accept Pluto, since it orbits the sun and its path is relatively solitary, unlike the asteroids, which I do not accept, and I do not accept the moons of the larger planets, since they orbit something else that in turn orbits the sun. BTW, are there any examples in the solar systems of moons that also have moons of their own? (ex, something orbits Titan, which orbits Saturn, which orbits the Sun). Bear: I believe you may have missed a subtle point. While I was praising the innocence and joy of Oz, I also argued that it in itself was no longer enough to sustain me, and that occasionally, I need such works as Laumer to truyl enjoy all that Oz has to offer (except, of course, for the really weird _Green Dolphin_). Dave: Potential matches for Glinda could include Zim from _Disenchanted Princess_. The problem is that Glinda would require a good, strong and noble adult human male, and there are so few of these in the Oz series. --Tyler Jones ========================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 15:29:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Quick Question: In the heretical _Barnstormer in Oz_ Hank Stover, Dorothy's son, is describing Dorothy's life back in the United States. He told Glinda how Dorothy met her husband, Hank's father. At the time, Dorothy had left South Dakota (not Kansas in this version) for the big apple of NYC and became a dancer on Broadway. Anyway, this is where Dorothy met her future husband, whom Hank described as "A regular Stage-Door Johnny". Does anybody know what this means? --Tyler Jones ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 17:47:53 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-96 Badger: Not having seen "The Craft" I can't say whether it purports to deal with Wicca or not - but certainly it's not accurate to say that all who claim to be witches (particularly in fiction) are ipso facto claiming (truly or falsely) to be Wiccans. The witches of Oz, for instance - both good and wicked - seem to have no connection with Wicca at all. It's no more reasonable for Wicca to claim the term "witch" exclusively than for, say, Christianity to claim the term "monk". (To hearken back to a previous discussion on the Digest...) And it was Cap'n Bill, not Captain Salt, who impaled the kalidah, in MAGIC OF OZ. Gili: One could, at least for the references to WIZARD, use the Latin terms from MAGUS MIRABILIS IN OZ for the Charon features. Well, I enjoyed the "treknobabble", if that's what you want to call it, in BARNSTORMER. Must be a matter of taste. And I found the Doc Savage allusions with Sharts highly whimsical, too. I didn't find the Gargoyles especially terrifying. Even in DOTWIZ I found the Mangaboos scarier than the Gargoyles, and elsewhere I found the Scoodlers, Gludwig, and, most of all, Mooj to be scarier as well. (These are from when I was a kid. If I'd read HANDY MANDY then, I might well have added Wutz, but I was 35 or so by the time I read that book, and I don't find anyone in Oz very scary as an adult.) Me: Correcting myself, and Aaron - the male SF/fantasy-writing Vinge is Vernor, not Vincent. I knew "Vincent" didn't sound right, but couldn't remember his right name until after I'd sent off the message. Dave: OK, you're right. FAIRY PRINCESS will not necessarily be heretical. Although by that standard, "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" isn't heretical, either, since as far as I recall it doesn't contradict anything in the FF; it just makes a change in Oz after the time of the FF (assuming it's dated about the time it was written - which implies that Harold Shea and company have a non-aging spell of their own, since Shea must have been born around 1915 himself...) that's so major that it obviates any attempt to write later books that are similar in tone to the FF. But I still think FP will have to be considered off in a HACC of its own. A married Ozma just isn't going to be the same person that a single Ozma is - as you, and others, have said, this is letting her mature and have some new experiences, but that also implies some changes in personality. Admittedly, it would have little effect on a book like GLASS CAT, where Ozma does nothing but set up at party at the beginning and hold court a couple of times later in the book, but any other book that aspires to give her a major role would have to take it into consideration. Copyright considerations, if nothing else, would inhibit that. You're right, of course. I meant constant alt-az, not dec-RA, regarding Charon's position in Pluto's sky. However, as regards the pronunciation of "Charon", I don't care what the astronomy books say. I don't say "YOOP-i-ter" or "zhew-pi-TAY", or "WAY-noos" or "veh-NEW"; why should I use a Latin or French pronunciation for Charon? I say it's TCHAY-ron and I say the heck with it... :-) A model for Ozma? Hmmm...the first person who came to my mind was Natalie Wood, the way she looked in "Rebel Without a Cause" (only with a different hairstyle, of course). If you want someone a bit more exotic, I recently saw some clips from the movie of "Flower Drum Song" for the first time since it appeared in the early Sixties, and Nancy Kwan in it is still the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. (Which, I would think, is the proper criterion for Ozma...) Danny: Presumably Mr. Diggs actually grew up in the USA in the early to mid-1800s, since he spent enough time in Oz to consider he'd gone from "quite a young man" to "a very old man" - surely at least 30 and more likely 40 years. If he was telling the truth about being born in Omaha he wasn't born before 1825, since that was the time of the first white settlement there (and it was only a licensed trading post; the city itself wasn't founded until I believe 1850). More likely he was born around 1830, and came to Oz just before the Civil War. But of course, the Monroe Doctrine and Manifest Destiny went back that far, anyhow, so it doesn't affect your argument. Dave again: I know there was speculation at one time that Pluto might have been another moon of Neptune's that somehow got kicked out of its orbit and now follows its own path around the sun. Certainly it has the most elliptical orbit of all the planets. But I don't know if this hypothesis has been proved, disproved, or simply put on hold waiting for more evidence. (If memory serves Pluto is actually smaller than Neptune's moon Triton. Wish I had my reference books...) A match for Glinda? I agree with you that Button-Bright, even if he's grown up into Saladin, isn't it. Offhand, no one in the canon seems right. There just aren't a lot of strong adult male characters in Oz, and I think one such would be required. There's the Wizard, but he and Glinda have been closely associated for too long by the end of the FF for it to be plausible for a romance to suddenly develop. And I find the idea of a marriage of convenience completely un-Ozzy. The same goes pretty much for Shaggy and Cap'n Bill; they aren't as close to Glinda as the Wizard, but they've known her for decades, well enough for any potential romance to have blossomed already. And Tititi-Hoochoo has no heart. And those are about all the strong (and good; Ruggedo is strong enough, but...) adult male humans I can think of from Baum. Thompson offers a couple of better possibilities - not -strong- possibilities, but more plausible than anyone from Baum. Grampa, for one. He's not a magic worker, but he's a good man, with a stout heart and strong personality, and he and Glinda haven't spent much time together, so there's always the off chance of a spark. And then there's Wumbo the Wonder Worker, who's probably the best choice that's come to my mind so far. He's a magician of some power, he's good, he's an adult male, and he's apparently had very little to do with Glinda. However, you couldn't use him until 2002 or 2003... Or there's Jinnicky - after all, they do have red in common, and are two of the most powerful magic-workers in Baumgea. I can't really see it personality-wise, but it could make a good deal of sense (though she'd have to get him out of that jug...). And he's in a PD book, so he could be used. David Hulan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 19:02:14 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-96 Dan Wall: >>Fairuza Balk's next film to be released is _The Island of Doctor >>Moreau_ starring Marlon Brando. She plays a genetically engineered >>cat woman. >>This is due for release October 10, so you need not hold you breath. >I wondered if this was ever going to be a movie. This is one of the >first Wells book I ever read and it _freaked_ me out. With the >implications of genetic tampering and popularity of Jurassic Park, et >al. . . Well, it just better be good. Whoa, whoa, whoa! You WONDERED if it was *ever* going to be a movie??? You mean like "Island of Lost Souls", the 1933 version starring Charles Laughton as Moreau and Bela Lugosi as the Speaker of the Law? Or the 1977 "Island of Dr. Moreau" with Burt Lancaster, Michael York and Richard Baseheart? Frankly, I find the idea of Brando as Moreau more than a little scary. But then, I find the idea of Marlon Brando a little scary these days. -- Eleanor Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 20:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Dave - Any chance you could ditch the extra ===== ? Please? The Island of Doctor Moreau - This has already been done twice. Who could top Bela Lugosi's "Are ve not all men?" and Charles Laughton as Moreau? The modern one was pretty pale by comparison. Animalistically, Bear (:<) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 21:26:21 -0400 From: DAlbright1@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-96 Angelica expects to sit down with the material and begin compiling it first of June, but didn't tell me how long it would take. I don't get the feeling it's just a couple hours work, and suspect it will be later in the summer before she passes it to Jim. I also don't know how many places responded, but she sent me her mailing list and it was four pages long -- lots of places with stuff. Since Jim VanderNoot usually attends the Club conventions, I suspect it he wouldn't be able to get it posted any sooner even if she did finish it quickly. Don't know what to tell you as far as pending projects, though I think the digest will be the solution to lettting each other know what's up. Jane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 20:07:58 -0700 (PDT) From: The Oz Trading Post Subject: RE: Tik-Tok Does anyone in the Ozzy Digest loop have info on this? ------------------------------------- Name: The Oz Trading Post E-mail: The Oz Trading Post Date: 5/6/96 Time: 8:07:58 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 22:18:07 -0400 From: DAlbright1@aol.com Subject: posts Oz lessons plans are anticipated for the centennial and Lee Jenkins has made some progress in finding us an education industry partner to assist in distribution and is seeking grants to fund the project. To the best of my knowledge the individual who offered to develop the lesson plans themselves has done nothing about it since volunteering three years ago. So, the only suggestion I can make is for the requestor to get in touch with other teachers who have taught Oz and see if they would be willing to share materials. Also, a plan is hatching in South Dakota for a statewide Oz program in the schools. I've requested information in case it can help whoever will eventually do the work of putting plans together for us. Being neither a parent nor a teacher, I've never even seen a lesson plans, and feel quite inadequate to step up to the plate and do it myself just to get it done. I have only thought of a few ideas nothing more than that to intoruduce the Oz theme in a classroom. The Good the Bad and the Ugly already has made an Oz appearance in a T-shirt depicting Dorothy, Toto and the Wicked Witch of the West in boots and cowboy hats ready to draw. ========================================================================= Date: Tuesday 07-May-96 00:57:42 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MIKE T. > Having never read BARNSTORMER, and likely never will, just >curious: is Blogo the Rare Beast any kin to the "Roast Beast" served up >by the Grinch in "How the Grinch Stole Christmas?" Or could Blogo the Rare Beast possibly be related to the "Perfectly Normal Beasts" in Douglas Adams' _Mostly Harmless_? TIP: If, as both _Disenchanted Princess_ and _Murder_ reveal, Tip is a totally separate entity from Ozma, then is there argueably a contradiction with _Mysterious Chronicles_, in which Ozma tries to re-live "past glories" as an adventuresome boy (which she should *NOT* have a memory of if she and Tip are separate...or *should* she??) BEAR: >Dave - Any chance you could ditch the extra ===== ? Please? I'm using a shorter divider in today's Digest -- let me know how it works out. DAVID H.: >OK, you're right. FAIRY PRINCESS will not necessarily be heretical... >But I still think FP will have to be considered off in a HACC of its own. Fortunately Tyler, who actually *DOES* the HACC, is not of that opinion. :) :) >A married Ozma just isn't going to be the same person that a single Ozma is... I guess this sub-debate in the Ozma-Dan controversy boils down to whether or not we're going to let the Oz characters grow and evolve, or require them to remain stagnant, with no new experiences in thier lives which might contradict future writings. Perhaps just as there are two astronomical Cosmologies, there should be two HACC "C-Oz-mologies": The "Big Bang" HACC, in which the Oz characters are allowed to grow and have new, character-building experiences; and the "Steady State" HACC, in which Oz and all the Oz characters must remain exactly as they were in the FF forever and for all time in the name of not inhibiting future writers. But IMHO writers are *more* inhibited by not allowing Oz and the Ozians to grow and change (for the better) the way *we* do in *our* lives, and I have faith that Tyler and Chris can work out reconciliations between books like _Fairy Princess_ in which something significant affects and enhances the lives of the Oz people and other books in which a quest is successfully completed or an attempt to conquer Oz is foiled, but that goes full circle and everything is right back to status quo at the end. And I am *still* convinced that an Ozma with a love interest would not change so much in character that it would be irreconcilable with other books! -- Dave ========================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 8, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 13:40:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Gili Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 HI digest! Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, I have an idea for a model for Ozma (squeal)! Elizabeth Taylor when she was twelve, as she was in "Lassie Come Home". Barry - I believe there actually IS a comic book "Judge Dredd in Oz", and a friend of mine has it - but it's not OUR Oz. It's some kind of nightmare futuristic Australia. -Gili ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 08:53:32 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Same fan, new name Dave, I decided to quit impersonating my husband and add a few addresses to our AOL account for myself. When it's easy for you, please change my digest delivery to Ozisus@aol.com -- I hope to start moving all my Oz emails here. And for the post, I'm needing to find a source fo MGM movie stills. If anyone knows a dealer who tends to have them for sale, please pass any info you have my way. Not just the publicity shots you can get from Turner, but frame blow ups from the film itself. Also, IWOC members, PLEASE do me a tremendous favor and complete the survey in the recent Bugle mailing about the Centennial Convention. When our committee's plan caused an uproar among a vocal few, and we agreed to go back to square one and survey members, we lost a lot of ground and now must play catch up. We really need to find out what you all want to do in order to deliver the Centennial Convention of our dreams. I need to tally results and get them distributed to the committee and the board of directors prior to the June convention. And FYI, about that list of suggested topical workshops, it is our intent to offer all of them or others like them of equal number - to have a wide-ranging menu of things so every type of Oz fan can have a convention filled with whatever they enjoy and where they can skip the stuff that bores them. It was my hope that by including that list, too, people might be able to think "out of the box" about what an IWOC Centennial Convention could be. Thanks, Jane ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 09:41:31 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 Eric G: > IMHO, "The Tik-Tok Man of Oz" and "His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz" > should be considered earlier drafts of "Tik-Tok of Oz" and "The Scarecrow > of Oz," respectively, and thus non-canonical. There are just too many > differences and inconsistencies between them and the rest of Baum's books, > but when he wrote the books he changed them so they would fit in with the > rest of the series. How does this square with the theory that Oz is a real place that Baum had informers about? Why would the story change? (Ummmm...I forget, Barry Adelman?): > _Judge Dredd in Oz_: > Judge Dredd: I am the law! > > Scraps: Krizzle-krazzle-kraw! > He says he is the law! > He'll spoil our fun > If he can with his gun. > Shall we let him do that? Pshaw! (Obviously, Scraps is suffering from futsie and must be dealt with accordingly) Tyler: > > Anyway, this is where Dorothy met her future husband, > whom Hank described as "A regular Stage-Door Johnny". > > Does anybody know what this means? > I believe it is equivalent to what we would now call a "groupie", i.e., someone who waited at the stage door to catch a glimpse (or something more) of their stage idol. It has something of a slimey connotation. Dave Hulan: > > However, as regards the pronunciation of "Charon", I don't care what the > astronomy books say. I don't say "YOOP-i-ter" or "zhew-pi-TAY", or "WAY-noos" > or "veh-NEW"; why should I use a Latin or French pronunciation for Charon? I > say it's TCHAY-ron and I say the heck with it... :-) "WAY-noos"? Isn't that how Ens. Chekov would pronounce it? :-) Sorry, but one should pronounce things the way the namer/bearer wishes them pronounced (for example, it always irked me that the British pronounce Gandhi as if it rhymes with candy. And my name is MY-k'l, thank you, not MITCH-ale, which it would be by your rules). (your smiley noted, BTW) Sorry for the overall lack of Ozziness, --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, somewhere on Via Laterus Luteum ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 09:59:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Sir Harold and the Gnome King 1) Tyler, the only thing heretical about "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" was that it holds that people only aged at an incredibly slowed down rate before Dranol Drabbo's disenchantment. Other than that, it falls pretty much within standard Oz, which is more than can be said for certin books that are in the HACC. Also: As I remember it, it was someone else, not me, who suggested putting Lurline's Machine into its own universe. The only reason I can see for segregating it is that it is as heretical as The Fairy Princess of Oz, perhaps more so since Mombi is portrayed in an unusually good light. Also: Just a thought: if Scraps and the Scarecrow are married, what are their children going to look like and be stuffed with? 2) On Barnstormer vs Wicked: Barnstormer was better. It's cleaner, it's closer to Baumian Oz, its views on religion are more realistic, it asks better questions, and Sharts and Blogo can beat up Morrible any day. Also, Blogo the Rare Beast has nothing to do with Roast Beast or Perfectly Normal Beast. He looks like a cross between a chicken and a monkey, comes from the Winkie-Quadling border area, and can drink several times his body weight in alcohol in a matter of minutes. (: 3) Jinnicky and Glinda? Not very likely. Jinnicky is a major figure in the Evian mafia (as revealed in The Woozy of Oz), so if that marriage ever got off the ground, Glinda would probably soon leave the Red Jinn, if not transform him into a fragile piece of ceramic. Actually I suspect that Jinnicky is already married and has a harem. 4) Dave, I don't see the contradiction at all. First of all, Tip the Disenchanted Princess is definitely a seperate person from Ozma/Tip ward of Mombi, the two of them having swapped forms some time in the past. Secondly, Tip the Ghost sounds to me to be not really a seperate person from Ozma but rather like a magically enhanced psychological problem given more or less physical form. Ozma still retains her memories of life as Tip ward of Mombi, in fact her basic personality arguably remains the same (at least initially), so nothing precludes her from putting on masculine clothing and pretending to still be a boy for a while. 5) Bizarre Oz title to get out of my head: The Electric Ozade Acid Test--I have no idea what this is. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 10:52:41 -0700 From: steller Subject: (no subject) Tyler: I am glad you make the distinction between canonical and historically accurate. I agree, only the FF can be considered canonical, therefore no apocryphal work becomes binding on other "historians." The names of the witches of Oz except Glinda, Mombi, Blinkie, Gloma and (horrors) Tattypoo are undetermined and any writer may chose to use names established by other writers or not at his/her own discretion. Oz is not like a "shared world" such as Star Trek or Nivens' Known Space with its Earth/Kzin Wars. There is no approved book establishing the rules, and there never really can be. The authors of the FF were not consistant among themselves as can be seen by the need of March Laumer to explain why the Munchkins were originally in the East, moved to the West, and later returned to the East in _The Magic Mirror of Oz_. I realize that those who treat Oz as pure history may disagree with me, but I have the same problem with the Bible. As a relative newcomer to the digest, I am regularly puzzled by the discussion of the Ozma/Dan marriage. Has the story in which this occurs been published (I am using this word in its original meaning, made public)? If so, how can I get a copy? I am also interested in acquiring any and all original Oz stories. Does anyone know how I can get a copy of _Emerald Rain_ (in Russian at least)? If anyone has a copy, is it illustrated by by Vladimirsky, who illustrated the six Volkov books. By the way, anyone wanting the Volkov books, they are often available from Znanie Bookstore in San Francisco. I will send its exact address and phone # later today, it does not have e-mail. I like Eric Gjovaag's suggestion that _His Majesty the Scarecrow_ and _The Tik-Tok Man_ should be considered earlier drafts of their respective books. I personally think one of the best things Fairuza Balk did was an almost unknown film _The Outside Chance of Maximillian Glick_. It is available on videotape, and any Fairuza fan should seek it out. Tyler: A "stage door Johnny" is a man who stands by the back door of a theatre in hopes of meeting the actresses. They are ofter pictured hoolding bouquets. The bolder ones would go inside and try to see an actress in her dressing room. So much for now. SJT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 17:50:22 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Blogo the Rare Beast of Oz Mike, according to _A Barnstormer in Oz_, the Rare Beasts come from an area on the Winkie-Quadling border, which conincidentally is where Laumer put the orange country of Unnikegwick. The Rare Beasts are sort of short (but, then again, everyone except Sharts and outsiders are short in that book), have apelike heads with a roosterlike comb and a long nose with a reddish bulb at the end and ostrishlike legs. The character of Blogo was a fugitive who had killed a judge in a dispute over the paternity of a human child, and interestingly he and Sharts the Shirtless were about the only two characters in the book who acted like they came from Oz. Dave, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head to use as a model for Ozma (okay, maybe Ashley Judd, but that's a bit of a stretch). My first impulse in making up illustrations would be to pick out the Neill illustrations that look best and use those as a model. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 13:04:39 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 Tyler Jones << I will defer to you on the Wiccan faith, since I know next to nothing about it, except that it is very oriented toward nature. >> That it is. Beltane in the Park (NYC's Central Park) this past Sunday was quite a sight: about 200+ celebrants and three May Poles. And "not surprisingly," all of the Predicted Rain was light - the previous evening and Sunday evening. *None* during the warm sunny day with its light cool breeze.... << I believe that Kalidah was impaled by Cap'n Bill in _Magic of Oz_ >> D'oh! Well, while it's no excuse, it's been years since I've read it, but the imagery of the scene stuck.... While I have *read* the Baum books, I'm more of an MGM Film guy.... << I would have suggested Alicia Silverstone for Polychrome! :-) How about a young Lynda Carter for Ozma? Please, I beg of you, NOT CHRISTINA RICCI! :-) How about Anna Chlumsky (sp?) for Dorothy? >> What's wrong with Christian Ricci?! She'd make great Ozma! She's not JUST Wednesday Addams; she was great in "Casper." I am about two films-of-her behind though.... =========================== From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Kalidahs << 1) Badger, wasn't it Cap'n Bill who impaled a kalidah? >> So Tyler Jones informed me [still hanging head in shame]. << 2) I know this is going somewhat offtrack, but as I remember it in The Island of Doctor Moreau, sentient beings are created not through genetic engineering but through surgery. >> While I've not read Wells' book, I think the 70s remake (with Micheal York) may have inferred genetic engineering as well, which didn't exist in Wells' time, so he'd have to have his story rely only on surgery. ========================= From: Eric Gjovaag << For the record, [the Oz CD] is not terribly new, I believe it came out in 1989 or 1990, along with all the other fiftieth anniversary stuff. I received the cassette as a prize at the Winkie Convention soon after its release. I must get the CD ASAP. I believe this was from a copy owned by Harold Arlen (or Yip Harbug, I can never keep them straight). >> Somehow I missed its release. If it got mentioned in the "Baum Bugle," I missed it there too. << Extra lyrics: I believe that's: "For courage is the thing of kings, With courage I'd be king of kings..." >> That *does* make more sense, thanks: Lahr sings it gruff and so "in character" it is almost unintelligible on the CD. << I don't think Capt. Salt has been on land and in Oz long enough to have actually met a Kalidah... >> I'm never gonna live this down, am I - - ? ========================== From: steller Subject: movies << I was watching StarTrek Voyager last night, and one of the characters looked like Margaret Pellegrini (the Munchkin). Does anyone know if it was she, I could not find her name in the credits, but the role was a small one.>> I forget the actress's name, but she was the psychic in the "Poltergeist" films. << There were two references to the MGM film in the program: "There's no place like home" and "click your heels together three times . . ." which indicate that the movie will still be an icon 400 years in the future. >> While Michael McKean's Fear character was able to read the crew members' deepest thoughts, so was more than likely able to find it that way (as its indicative program would not have made such a reference), the classic film will ALWAYS be an icon. :-) I take it "the role was a small one" was an unintentional pun? ========================== << From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-96 Badger: Not having seen "The Craft" I can't say whether it purports to deal with Wicca or not - but certainly it's not accurate to say that all who claim to be witches (particularly in fiction) are ipso facto claiming (truly or falsely) to be Wiccans. >> Wiccan is the New Age title for witch, as the term Witch tends to freak out modern cowans (non-witches, usually "Christian" ). "Wiccans" tend (stereotypically) to be more "airy" about it: almost 60s/70s types. Witches tend to seem more grounded: certainly the witches I know are. Witches are in every walk of life that more than likely you personally know at least one pagan and/or one witch. You just don't know it. << The witches of Oz, for instance - both good and wicked - seem to have no connection with Wicca at all. >> That is because, apart from it being a 1899 Fairie Story, Oz is in an Alternate Universe where the laws of magick are quite noticably different than in the Great Big Outside World (here). Magick and witchcraft in Oz is not religiously based. << It's no more reasonable for Wicca to claim the term "witch" exclusively than for, say, Christianity to claim the term "monk". (To hearken back to a previous discussion on the Digest...) >> Being a semi-recent subscriber, I missed that issue, how far back was it? To put it simpler though, all witches are pagans, but not all pagans are witches Pagans can be cowans. In "The Craft," the girls believe they are witches as they have Read Books On It. This is NOT how to become a witch (sometimes not even the way to become a pagan). Originally, witches were the highly respected Village Elder, the teacher, the *healer* (to a witch the concept of Do No Harm is as important as to a modern doctor). One doesn't become a witch Just To Do Spells or Magick. Merely for edification you might want to stop by your local bookstore for the late Scott Cunningham's comprehensive easy-to-read paperback "The Truth About Witchcraft Today." It has a nice photo of an executive type woman on the cover and it's about four whole bucks. It's such an easy read, you could probably have a seat and read it *there*. One becomes a witch (or just a pagan) to venerate nature and the Deities behind it, as well as towards promoting self-growth (ie, spiritual growth). Oz characters often used magick as a tool, or as a weapon. Magick with a K means being able alter reality in a fashion unable to be measured by science YET...: magic without a K refers to illusions, such as provided by the likes of David Copperfield, etc. (although I often suspect Copperfield is really a Q.... ). -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "I don't have a solution but I admire the problem." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 14:35:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Eric: Since I have not read _Wicked_ yet (haven't had the time), I cannot comment fully on the pre-existance of the Emerald City. From _Lost King_, we get the impression that there was SOMETHING there before the Wizard arrived, perhaps a small castle and some scattered villages. However, _Wicked_ was definitely inaccurate to state that there was a full-sized flourishing Emerald City when the Wizard first arrived. The HACC Council issues two rulings: I, Tyler Jones, God of consistency among the Oz books and absolute dictator of the HACCs, hereby, now and forever, declare _The Third Book of Oz_ to be Historically Inaccurate to the FF and wil be stricken from the Mainline Oz Universe, also known as HACC 1. This book may be eligible for inclusion into the sub-BOW/BEOO Universe, aka Universe 2. The vote was unanimous, 1-0. Also on a 1-0 vote, the sub-BOW/BEOO Universe was promoted from Universe 4 to Universe 2, bumping the Lurline's Machine Universe to #3 and the Laumer Universe to #4. The reason for this is that people are more likely to write books that take place in the sub-BOW/BEOO Universe than the other two. The purpose of this Universe will be to support Dave Hardenbrooks theory of the "Steady-State" HACC, wherein there are no major (and few minor) changes to the situation in Oz, both physical and character-development. Mike T: I doubt there is a connection between Blogo and the Grinches roast beast. If anybody tried to roast Blogo, he'd probably rip their guts out and then he'd get nasty! :-) David: In a coment on similar tastes, I also enjoyed the tekno-babble of Hank Stover in analyzing the situation of Oz in _Barnstormer_. Dave: It's possible that Ozma was only being symbolic in the re-living part, since as Tip, she mostly worked in Mombi's fields and ocassionaly goofed off. ********** SPOILER FOR DISENCHANTED PRINCESS ********** I doubt that she could have "Clipped" memories from the real Tip, as the change of shape was merely physical, and in any case, it happened when they were babies, so Tip could not have done a lot anyway. However, she WOULD retain the memories of Tip as Mombi's servant, and may simply have been exaggerating them to help her feel sorry for herself. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** This was a troubled time for Ozma, struggling to define her new identity. A little irrational behavior from her at that time is to be expected. David and Dave: (On Ozma's boyfriend and future textual repercussions) First off, Dave, thanks for the encouragement about the abilities of Chris and myself regarding the resolution of contradictions! :-) However, I want to move away from the idea of only me deciding what is or is not accurate and what will or will not damage continuity. It is true that I maintain the HACC, but I do not want to be the only one who decides its makeup. David has a good point when he says that no future books even MENTIONING Ozma's husband would be unusual. IMHO, I consider this a stronger arguement than a "personality change", which others have remarked on. It is true that other authors have written books in which a permanent addition to the Emerald City is made, but without comment, since there are so many already, one more will hardly be noticed and not mentioning somebody is of no moment. However, the arguement seems to be that Dan, by virtue of being Ozma's husband, will be a unique and highly visible person, and his not being mentioned will be a major gap in the Emerald City scenes. We can get away with it by using your theory that he is a quiet person who is unwilling to hog the spotlight in the Emerald City, but may lead an active life outside the green walls. In this way, people can write Oz books, even with Ozma as a major character, and Dan's absence will not be conspicuous. In this way, we can theorize that Ozma's marriage is not a major situational change, if Dan spends most of his time away from EC and only drops by to visit Ozma, kind of like a sailor who is away months at a time and only makes port for short times. Also, this would allow Dave to write all kinds of books about Dan's adventures, in and out of Oz! :-) I also remain convinced that a married Ozma (providing he is a good man) would not go through a major character metamorphosis. --Tyler Jones ========================================================================= Dave: Wednesday 08-May-96 00:14:19 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DAVID H. (CONTINUED FROM YESTERDAY): >I know there was speculation at one time that Pluto might have been another >moon of Neptune's ... But I don't know if this hypothesis has been proved, >disproved, or simply put on hold waiting for more evidence. The idea of Pluto being an escaped moon has been debated for quite a long time. Although by no means "disproved", I think the idea has fallen into disfavor in the last few years by the discovery of several small icy bodies (a deep-freeze version of the asteroid belt?) in those outer reaches of the Solar System...Indeed, some astronmers believe, instead of Pluto being a moon that escaped from Neptune, that Triton is a "cousin" of Pluto that got *captured* by Neptune! >If memory serves Pluto is actually smaller than Neptune's moon Triton. Yes. Our moon, Jupiter's Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto, Saturn's Titan, and Neptune's Triton all outsize Pluto. >A match for Glinda? ... There's the Wizard, but he and Glinda have been >closely associated for too long by the end of the FF for it to be plausible >for a romance to suddenly develop. I don't agree...love is a strange thing... :) (Besides, how do we know that Glinda and the Wizard haven't been involved FOR YEARS and have just kept it a secret?) GILI: > ... I have an idea for a model for Ozma (squeal)! >Elizabeth Taylor when she was twelve, as she was in "Lassie Come Home". Another great suggestion (I'm getting lots!)! Thanks Gili! Or how about Elizabeth Taylor just a couple of years later when she was in "Jane Eyre". S. TELLER: >As a relative newcomer to the digest, I am regularly puzzled by the >discussion of the Ozma/Dan marriage. Has the story in which this occurs >been published ... ? It hasn't been *written* yet! I'm just doing preliminary outlines at this point...But *some people* are so determined to pre-judge _Fairy Princess of Oz_ (that's the title), that it *sounds* as though I've written it already! TYLER: >The purpose of this Universe will be to support Dave Hardenbrooks theory of >the "Steady-State" HACC, wherein there are no major (and few minor) >changes to the situation in Oz, both physical and character-development. I love the way my MOPPeT's get embraced so quickly! :) :) :) > ... if Dan spends most of his time away from EC and only drops by to >visit Ozma, kind of like a sailor who is away months at a time and only >makes port for short times. Also, this would allow Dave to write all kinds >of books about Dan's adventures, in and out of Oz! :-) This, coincidentally, would create a neat parallel between Dan and his namesake in _Little Men_/_Jo's Boys_, whom Louisa May Alcott always charcterizes as a "wanderer". ( His refusal to remain anchored anywhere is in fact a reason Jo won't let him marry her niece...But I want to be kinder to *my* Dan, and let him have Ozma. :) :) :) :) ) >I also remain convinced that a married Ozma (providing he is a good man) >would not go through a major character metamorphosis. You may rest assured that Dan *IS* a good, kind man, totally worthy of Ozma! -- Dave ========================================================================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 9, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 11:00:16 -0700 From: steller Subject: Znanie Russian Books: The address of Znanie Bookstore is 5237 Geary Blvd, San Francisco CA. Phone # (415) 752-7555. They have had all the Volkov books (if Russian) in various editions. They have also had Russian translations of Baum Books, sometimes with original illustrations. I just received my Bugle, so I shall read that now. SJT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 16:23:39 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-07-96 Tyler (and Dave): Certainly an addition to Ozma's court will not shackle future writers. Even, I will (somewhat reluctantly) agree, a boyfriend for Ozma. A -consort- for Ozma, OTOH, -would- shackle future writers, much like (say) Dorothy growing up, or the Scarecrow turning permanently into a meat man, or the Cowardly Lion being permanently de-aged into a cub. These are not peripheral characters or new characters; they are characters who are well-established in the canon and whom other writers are very likely to want to use as major players in their stories. Whether Dan appears in the story or not, Ozma's reactions to a lot of situations will have to be affected by the knowledge that she has a husband. They would probably be affected significantly by the fact that (if I understand Dave's scenario correctly) she's allowed herself to age physically and psychologically from Baum's 14-15 to maybe 18-20, but that can probably be rationalized at least, and if her love for Dan is of the deep but mild sort (e.g. no serious angst when he's away, just being glad when he returns) then again having him as a boyfriend could probably be rationalized. But I -don't- think she can actually be married without its having a constricting effect on future writers, if FP is put into HACC 1. It isn't that every new book has to bring all of Oz back to where it was at its beginning. But I do think that making a major and irreversible change for one of the major Baum characters (Ozma, Glinda, the Wizard, Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Cowardly Lion, for sure; most of the other important characters, probably) is sufficient to take a book out of HACC 1 and into a chronological chain of its own. Maybe not in the Jones/Dulabone HACC, but in my mental one. It's pretty clear that the Mombi from LUCKY BUCKY isn't -the- Mombi. -The- Mombi was dissolved by water; the Mombi in LB was totally immersed when Davy went to the bottom of Lake Quad, and wasn't more than infuriated by it. One of these days I really must look at your HACC. I have a better Web browser, now, and will try to get around to it Real Soon Now. I guess I can accept your rationalization for why the Scarecrow and Scraps don't show any particular affection for each other (less than, say, the Scarecrow does for the Tin Woodman) in later books; after all, neither of them has a heart... Eric: I don't think the presence of the Emerald City before the Wizard arrived is a particular boo-boo in WICKED - considering all the other ways its pre-Wizard Oz differs from the Oz of WIZARD, that's a minor discrepancy. Anyhow, there must have been -something- on the site of the EC pre-Wizard, or the ruler of Oz for whom the Forbidden Fountain was created wouldn't have had occasion to drink from it. Well, yeah, Imogene the Cow in GIANT GARDEN doesn't resemble Imogene the Cow from the stage WIZARD except in name. I didn't mean to imply anything else. But I'd bet the stage one is where Shanower got the idea for a bovine character named Imogene. Michael: I doubt if the Yellow Brick Road is visible from orbit - at least, not from a very high orbit. It's not the Great Wall of China, after all; as described, it's probably no wider than the average street in the EC, and almost certainly narrower than the main boulevards. The EC itself, Lake Quad, Lake Orizon, probably the major rivers, and very likely the Tin Woodman's palace are all likelier to be visible from orbit than the YBR, I think. It seems unlikely that Blogo the Rare Beast has any connection at all with Dr. Seuss's Roast Beast. Someone's speculation that Blogo was the result of a mating between a turkey and a rubber glove is not far off the mark... Tyler again: I don't know it for a fact, but I doubt if there are any cases of a satellite having a satellite, because any such body couldn't have a stable orbit unless it was so close to the large satellite that the planet's gravity was negligible - and I think that even for the biggest moons like Titan and Ganymede and Triton, such an orbit would probably be inside the surface of the moon. However, there are collections of cosmic junk at the L4 and L5 points for most of the major satellites, I think; some of them might be big enough to qualify as "moons" in a sense. But they don't orbit the satellite, but the primary in the same orbit as the satellite but 60 degrees ahead or behind. "Stage-door Johnny" was an early-20th-century term something like "groupie" nearer our times. Stage-door Johnnies were men who hung out around the stage doors of theaters hoping for a chance to see, touch, talk to, and with any luck date, the actresses and chorus girls. There's a reference to them in a song, "Life Upon the Wicked Stage", from the original score of SHOW BOAT; it's been cut from most subsequent productions. I don't know if it's included in the current stage revival. But I've run across the term plenty of times elsewhere. You must not have read many straight novels from the teens and twenties... Dave: Your divider is still ten === too long to print on one line as I receive it, FWIW. Doesn't bother me, but just FYI. David Hulan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 11:32:17 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff MOREAU-- Thanks for the info on the Moreau movies of the past! I'll definately look them up. I am aware that the book's "technobabble" involves vivisection, which is what made it so creepy. But the parallels of genetic engineering are there, which makes the book so topical even today. But enough of 19th century science fiction-- onto Oz! BETSY BOBBIN-- It seemed like, all of a sudden, she was a part of Ozma's entourage, but I must have missed/didn't catch her "first appearance." Any help? EPISODICAL OZ-- Thank you Dave for your remarks about Oz yesterday. After looking at all the Oz books out there, and even reading some non-FF lately, I was really disconcerted about lack of dynatic tension. True, it is hard to keep the "newness" of Oz constant, which is why I hold fast to Baum's 14, but the danger today's authors must watch for is having Oz books degenerate into episode after episode with no opportunity for dramatic change. For example, one of the reason that I don't like Star Trek (yes, you did read that right Trekkies) is that most episodes are drained of dramatic tension because you _know_ that everyone/everything will turn out alright because they all need to be there available for the next week and season. I know you can site exceptions to this-- but look! All the exceptions are the best episodes of the series! Don't get me wrong. There can be good episodes as well as bad episodes, but without dynamic change, there can never be dynamic tension. This is why so many people create their own characters, so they CAN do whatever they want to include dynamic tension and leave established characters alone. This is me, getting off my soapbox, Danny ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 10:22:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" To: Ozzy Digest Mailing List 1) Stephen, which bible do you have problems with? If you care to discuss this issue, please E-mail me privately. (I'm a rabbinical student. I know about such things.) I'd hate to see this Digest degenerate into a holy war. Also: Actually, Barry and I suspect that Tattypoo is properly a title and not a name. My guess is that it is a contraction of Old Ozzish tat i pu =3D "witch of the north" and that, like many other cogonems, was simply transliterated when the switch from Old Ozzish to English was made. 2) Badger, somehow I don't see it likely that there are many Wiccans here at Yeshiva University. Probably more likely that we've been infiltrated by . Also: Can we get off of Wicca, please? I'm on the verge of starting a holy war myself... 3) Tyler, what do you mean the Lurline's Machine Universe got bumped to #3? I already made up the banners proclaiming WE'RE #2! (: Also: Do you intend on putting the Hardenbrookian books in the mainstream universe or in with Lurline's Machine? While definitely fudgeable at the moment (Jack Pumpkinhead was supposed to stay with Ozma "to the end of his days", so the marriage between Ozma and Dan can last "forever", i.e. until a few decades before the beginning of the post-Asmardian era), somehow I don't think he'd appreciate it. Also: Where will Kenneth Joslyn Baum's The Dinamonster of Oz, which is truly disharmonius with mainstream Oz, go? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 20:23:25 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: Re: Andrea, I'm forwarding your question to the Ozzy Digest discussion group to see if they can provide any insights on this. Jim Vander Noot --- On Mon, 29 Apr 96 16:03:34 -700 Ed Milian wrote: Hi! My name is Andrea. I'm doing a high school project on the wizard of oz. More specifically, I'm exploring the way children use literature (fairy tales) to escape from their own reality. If you have any information which could be useful, please email me back at edmilian@terraport.net Thank you very much, Andrea -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 5/7/96 Time: 8:23:25 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 16:28:00 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest SJT - "Emerald Rain" is not an easy book to find! I bought all four of the copies I came across in Israel: two went to Fred Meyer, one to Willard Carrol, and the fourth is on my shelf. I also got a couple of extra dust jackets which I donated to the club auction - I know that one was auctioned at last year's Winkie convention, I don't know what happened to the other. The illustrations are in Vladimirski's style, but they are by a different illustrator and they are far inferior to Vladimirski's illustrations. However, Leonid Vladimirski wrote the introduction to the book. By the way, for any of you who haven't heard of "Emerald Rain", it is a Russian book that came out in 1992, written by Yuri Koznitchov as a continuation of the Volkov series. I have no idea what it's about, as I can't read Russian. Just from looking at the illustrations, it seems to be rather science-fictiony. Someone there travels in a rocket. Fred Meyer promised to get it translated, but this was probably right about when he fell ill, so - who knows? Also - if any of you are interested in Russian books, either Volkov or Baum, you can always trade with me! Israel is crawling with Russian bookstores (there was a very large wave of immigrants from the former USSR a few years back), and I've come across a couple of interesting things (including "Emerald Rain"). I can't guarantee anything specific, because the supply is unreliable, but I can volunteer to be on the lookout. And as usual, I'm happy to trade Hebrew books and ugly Dorothy dolls too. Gili ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 10:23:58 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Post for Ozzy Digest I need help on the "The Annotated Wizard of Oz." by Michael Patrick Hearn. I read somewhere about there being two different states for this book, the states being discernable by the color of the binding and the price on the jacket. At the time, all my books were packed and I couldn't check my copy, and now that I'm unpacked, I can't recall where I saw this information. Does anyone know about this title? Thanks, Mike Denio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 12:11:57 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Romances of Glinda To put my two cents in on the subject, in the absence of information from the FF, we have no idea what kind of man Glnda would fall for. You could argue that she would prefer a strong character like herself, but then again, strong personalities might clash so she might prefer someone who would be the less- dominant member of a partnership. Or there could be other combinations or possibilities, such as her alternating between the two extremes with subsequent breakups, or her being a creep magnet, or no man she would have coming near her out of fear or overidolization, and so forth. The grown-up Button Bright in _The Frogman of Oz_ is a fairly strong character, not anything like his persona in say _The Road to Oz_ or _The Lost Princess of Oz_. Given this, I don't see him as being too unfit. Matches with Glinda based on the guy's occupation I find fairly hollow. If that were the rule, then Dan would certainly be inelligible to be with Ozma (he's not a ruler of a country) and Jinjur (being a former general) would probably be married to the Tin Soldier or Omby Amby. I personally know two professors whose husbands are of very different occupations (one's a mechanic and the other's a carpenter), so that rule does not really apply even in this world. On the other hand, if you really want to have some fun on the subject, one could make up some ancient Quadling law about who the queen should marry... I don't see Jinnicky being much of a match for anybody. I thought Glinda would prefer men who don't live in jars, and some of the cultural differences might get in the way. Come to think of it, I don't remember Jinnicky having much of a personality, which would be about the only plus for someone living in a jar. Nickadoodle: Don't worry, Glinda, I'll keep you comfortable. I LOVE you! Glinda: Oh, dear... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 03:01:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-08-96 Missed the Star Trek credit the other evening, but noticed a resemblance of the small woman to Zelda Rubinstein, the small psychic in Poltergeist. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 10:31:30 -0700 From: steller Subject: various MY-k'l: By your analogy, should we refer to Munchen (with an umlaut) in Deutchland? I'm just asking. Anyone: Just what is Lurlene's Machine? Aaron S. Adelman: Is _The Woozy of Oz_ available for people to read? As my second message yesterday seems to have been lost, I will repeat the information about Znanie Bookstore. Its address is 5237 Geary Blvd. San Francisco, CA. Phone (415) 752-7555. They are a Russian language bookstore and they frequently have the Volkov books available and also Russian translations (ofter with original illustrations) of Baum's books. This is short because it is the end of the semester and term papers and final exams are piling up. (Students aren't the only ones this troubles.) SJT ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 17:07:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > WOW! Two digests in one day. This hasn't happened in quite a while. Not > counting Melody's excellent essay, which was more of an attachment TO the > digest rather than an extension OF it, but I loved it anyway! :-) Er, what essay? Did we get a new one? > Aaron: > Current HACC theory has it that the Mombi we see in Neills book is not THE > Mombi. She is only a magical animation drawn by Jack Pumpkinhead and brought > to life with the magic that the Wizard mixed into the paint. How can this be HACC theory? This is what happened in the book! Why label it a theory? > Dave: > Please don't laugh, but I would have suggested Alicia Silverstone for > Polychrome! :-) I LIKE this idea! > How about a young Lynda Carter for Ozma? This one, too! > Get this: Johnathan Taylor Thomas for Button-Bright! :-) A YOUNG Jonathan Taylor Thomas, correct? (He is getting close to his teens now, IIRC.) > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Kalidahs > > 2) I know this is going somewhat offtrack, but as I remember it in The > Island of Doctor Moreau, sentient beings are created not through genetic > engineering but through surgery. AFAIK, nothing in the publicity for the new movie (so far) mentions genetic engineering. There certainly wasn't in the preview I saw at Anglicon. > From: steller > Subject: movies > > I was watching StarTrek Voyager last night, and one of the characters > looked like Margaret Pellegrini (the Munchkin). Does anyone know if it > was she, I could not find her name in the credits, but the role was a > small one. Ooh, bad pun there. No, I seem to recall seeing the name Patty Maloney in the opening credits of that episode of "ST: Plymouth Voyager" (I swear, Plymouth has a commercial for their Voyager van in EVERY episode of that show!). Maloney is another well known little person-actor, but like Billy Barty she's not old enough to have been in "The Wizard of Oz." > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > [General commentary about "Barnstormer" deleted] > Anyway, this is where Dorothy met her future husband, > whom Hank described as "A regular Stage-Door Johnny". > > Does anybody know what this means? Some guy who hangs around the back door of a theater, looking to meet stars, actors, chorus girls, etc. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-96 > > A model for Ozma? Hmmm...the first person who came to my mind was Natalie > Wood, the way she looked in "Rebel Without a Cause" (only with a different > hairstyle, of course). Oooooh, I like THIS idea, too! (Courtney Cox? Did I mention Courtney Cox? BAH!) > From: The Oz Trading Post > Subject: RE: Tik-Tok > > Does anyone in the Ozzy Digest loop have info on this? > ------------------------------------- > Name: The Oz Trading Post > E-mail: The Oz Trading Post > Date: 5/6/96 > Time: 8:07:58 PM > > This message was sent by Chameleon > ------------------------------------- Could you speak up, please? I didn't hear the question. --Eric "ARTICLE ABOUT THE NEW 'DOCTOR WHO' MOVIE IN TV GUIDE THIS WEEK!!!!!!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 19:09:44 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Review for Ozzy Digest OK, here's my long-promised review of THE WINGED MONKEYS OF OZ; I hope you have room for it. (Save it till you have a short Digest if you like; it's not time-critical.) THE WINGED MONKEYS OF OZ, by Dennis Anfuso, HC currently in print. This is another new Oz book, this one from a small press called Interset Press, in New Hampshire. The author and his wife own the press, which undoubtedly helped in getting the book published; on the other hand, it's good enough to have deserved publication anyhow. I'd rate it in the middle rank of recent Oz books I've read - not as good as QUEEN ANN IN OZ or THE GIANT GARDEN OF OZ, but better than Donald Abbott's books for Books of Wonder, and about on a par with CORY IN OZ and most of the other Books of Wonder publications. Melanie Taylor is a seven-year-old girl (though through most of the book she seems more a rather bright nine) who lives in Tacoma, Washington. Her father has taken her to the beach one day when she spots an exhausted winged monkey there. (It seems that when the king of the Winged Monkeys told Dorothy they couldn't carry her to Kansas in THE WIZARD OF OZ, he only meant that they couldn't be commanded to do so; the monkeys can fly out of Oz if they want to.) Her father puts it in a cage and calls in the police and scientists and such who want to study it, but Melanie feels sorry for it (and spots another monkey flying overhead), so she lets it go and the monkeys carry her off to an island in the Nonestic Ocean. Meanwhile, the Queen of the Field Mice has told Ozma that the Winged Monkeys are living in a very poor part of Oz, so Ozma sends Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Cowardly Lion on an expedition to find them and invite them to live in Ozma's palace in the Emerald City. Melanie and her monkey friends slowly make their way toward Oz, with Melanie meeting a number of interesting characters and, fairly unusually for an Oz book, learning some important things and growing a bit in the course of the book. (Most of the child characters in the Oz books come out of the book no different from the way they started it, aside from having had some adventures. About the only exceptions that come to mind offhand are Bobby Downs (renamed Bob Up) in THE COWARDLY LION OF OZ, and Jenny Jump in THE WONDER CITY OF OZ. And those are two of the worst books in the entire Famous Forty.) Meanwhile, Dorothy and her friends reach the land of the Winged Monkeys after some mild adventures, and the whole band accepts the invitation to go to the Emerald City-because the king is afraid Ozma will be angry if they refuse. There are thus two parallel stories that remain completely separate, aside from the fact that winged monkeys are involved in both, up to the final chapter, when Melanie's friends are reunited with the rest of their band and Ozma sends Melanie home. It works fairly well, though it doesn't develop the same tension that, say, Baum did in LOST PRINCESS when Dorothy's party converged with the Frogman and Cayke, or Thompson did in OJO when Dorothy's party converged with Ojo's. In those books both parties were seeking a common goal, so watching first one and then the other approach it kept the reader wondering what one group was doing as they read about the other. In this book there's no real convergence of interest, so it weakens the tension. Other comments: Anfuso clearly loves puns on names even more than Thompson did, and much more than Baum; some of his are truly outrageous (like the character who appears late in the book, a writer of children's books named Elf Rank...). He illustrated the book himself, reasonably competently; comparing him with the BoW artists he's better than Campbell and Terry, about on a par with Denis Macfarlane or Donald Abbott, and not as good as George O'Connor, IMHO. (Shanower is in a class by himself; I consider him the best Oz artist of all time, even including Neill.) And the book could have used a thorough copyedit; there were too many typos and minor infelicities of expression that should have been caught before it went to press. At the price - $24.95 from the publisher - I recommend it only to serious Oz fans; it's good enough that I'd recommend it unhesitatingly to any Oz fan at around $10-12, but only to a quasi-completist at the current price. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 12:40:10 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Well, I guess I didn't make the cut yesterday with Dave's server being down, so I apologize for some less timely stuff. . . MOREAU-- I did want to thank all those who pointed out the previous MOREAU films. I will definately look them up for rental. (I suppose I am one of the younger members posting here (relatively, anyway.)) BESTY BOBBIN-- It seemed like, all of a sudden, she was a member of Ozma's entourage. I must have missed or didn't catch her first appearance. Any help? OZ CASTING CALL (forgive me not knowing some of the names)-- Ozma-- the Acadamy Award winning girl from THE PIANO Dorothy-- the star of THE LITTLE PRINCESS Trot-- Ariana Richards (Lex from JURASSIC PARK) Besty Bobbin-- Amber Scott (Pan's little girl in HOOK) Jellia Jamb-- the child star of MIRACLE ON 34TH and upcoming MATILDA Captain Bill-- Sean Connery Button Bright-- that Spanky kid from LITTLE RASCALS Shaggy Man-- Christopher Lloyd Glinda-- Angelica Houston Tattypoo-- Carol Channing (esp. with a name like that!) Scarecrow-- Robin Williams Tin Woodman-- Harrison Ford Cowardly Lion-- Computer FX voiced by James Earl Jones (ala LION KING) Nome King-- Danny DeVito Mombi-- Rhea Perlman And the Wizard. . . George Clooney! No, no, no! I mean that guy from MY FAVORITE MARTIAN and PICKET FENCES (I can't remember his name! UGH!) Cut, that's a wrap! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 16:19:22 -0400 From: homer I think the very best suggestion I've heard so far on a model for Ozma is a younger Courteney Cox with different hair. P.S.-I think marrying Ozma is a rotten idea, especially since there's NO ONE even halfway decent for her. It will ruin the concept of her that I think most people have. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 16:16:53 -0400 From: homer Being fairly new to this, could someone tell me what all the abbreviations like "FF" and "HACC" mean? It's confusing. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 15:04:45 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-96 Tyler Jones: As everyone who's read the spring 1996 issue of The Oz Collector knows, "The Winged Monkeys of Oz" is currently being reformatted and reprinted by the publisher in cooperation with The Oz Collector. It should be available again at the beginning of June. For anyone looking to obtain a copy, The Oz Collector is offering a pre-publication special price of $19.95 (the book normally retails for $24.95) on all copies ordered by June 1, 1996. And all copies ordered by that date will also be signed by the author! To get a copy of The Oz Collector you can call toll-free (800) 207-6968. Advance apologies to any and all who consider this a shameless plug and not useful information. Stephen Teller: Just read your review of "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" and, though I certainly respect your opinion, I was rather shocked by your rather cyncial assumption that the use of the word "Facsimile" on the dust jacket was intentially misleading, rather than an unfortunate mistake. The fact is, someone at Morrow failed to show the jacket copy to me or the editor-in-chief and get our approval before it was published. It was a terrible mistake and we all deeply regret it, but I'd like to think that you could have at least inquired to find out why the term was used erroneously instead of assuming the worst. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 16:05:30 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-30-96 Bill W.: There's a wonderful book for teachers called "Fantasy Literature in the Classroom" which includes a whole chapter on using "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" in the classroom and offers various classroom plans. It also includes sections on using books like "Charlotte's Web" and "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" in the classroom as well. It's not available in most stores, but it is included in the most recent issue of The Oz Collector. Your teacher friend can call (800) 207-6968 to get a free copy of the catalog, which includes more details on the book. Steven Teller: I agree! "Our Landlady" is a wonderful publication and an important addition to any Baum enthusiast's library. For those not going to the Ozmapolitan Convention, the book is offered, complete with a bookplate signed by the editor, in the new Oz Collector. See above for info on getting one. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 16:35:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-08-96 > From: Gili > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 > > HI digest! > Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, I have an idea for a model for Ozma (squeal)! > Elizabeth Taylor when she was twelve, as she was in "Lassie Come Home". Hey, I like that one, too! (And I see Dave does as well.) > Barry - I believe there actually IS a comic book "Judge Dredd in Oz", and > a friend of mine has it - but it's not OUR Oz. It's some kind of nightmare > futuristic Australia. I believe that's what Barry (or somebody else) was saying... > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 > > Eric G: > > IMHO, "The Tik-Tok Man of Oz" and "His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz" > > should be considered earlier drafts of "Tik-Tok of Oz" and "The Scarecrow > > of Oz," respectively, and thus non-canonical. There are just too many > > differences and inconsistencies between them and the rest of Baum's books, > > but when he wrote the books he changed them so they would fit in with the > > rest of the series. > > How does this square with the theory that Oz is a real place that > Baum had informers about? Why would the story change? That is a theory that I do not necessarily hold. > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Sir Harold and the Gnome King > > 2) On Barnstormer vs Wicked: Barnstormer was better. It's cleaner, it's > closer to Baumian Oz, its views on religion are more realistic, it asks > better questions, and Sharts and Blogo can beat up Morrible any day. But I liked "Wicked" better anyway. > 3) Jinnicky and Glinda? Not very likely. Jinnicky is a major figure in > the Evian mafia (as revealed in The Woozy of Oz)... Aaron, if you keep telling us these sorts of things, nobody's going to want to read the book, because you've told us all everything that's in it anyway! > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: Blogo the Rare Beast of Oz > > Dave, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head to use as a model for Ozma > (okay, maybe Ashley Judd, but that's a bit of a stretch). Mmm, I see Ashley Judd as more of a Dorothy type... > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 > > << I don't think Capt. Salt has been on land and in Oz long enough to have > actually met a Kalidah... >> > > I'm never gonna live this down, am I - - ? Nope! > From: steller > Subject: movies > > << I was watching StarTrek Voyager last night, and one of the characters > looked like Margaret Pellegrini (the Munchkin). Does anyone know if it was > she, I could not find her name in the credits, but the role was a small one.>> > > I forget the actress's name, but she was the psychic in the "Poltergeist" films. I don't think so. (Didn't the actress in the "Poltergeist" films die not quite recently?) --Eric ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 20:05:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Sorry Dave, I have just learned that for Ozma to marry she must receive permission from Lurline. I have also learned that, for reasons she is not willing to discuss, the answer would be no! :) That should solve the problem. :) :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 21:13:32 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Ozzy digest ***** Repeat. It looks like this one didn't make it last night. ***** stellar: >I was watching StarTrek Voyager last night, and one of the characters >looked like Margaret Pellegrini (the Munchkin). Does anyone know if it >was she, I could not find her name in the credits, but the role was a >small one. I hope to see her in Sedan, KS later this month and would >like to mention it to her. I shouldn't think so. According to TV Guide, the "background" performers were all members of Cirque du Soleil. Tyler: "Stage-Door Johnny" is a term for a young man who hangs around the stage door (performer's entrance) of a theatre, especially after the show, in order to meet/talk to/ask out one of the chorus girls. The phrase (and the thing) pretty much died out when the "huge-chorus-of-leggy-girls" musical did. You can also hear the term used in "Life Upon the Wicked Stage" from "Showboat" (play and movie). Eric: I, too, wanted to compliment you on your "Money in Oz" article. It was delightful. Actually, I've wanted to say that ever since I proofread it, so many moons ago, but I thought that might be rude to others. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 21:51:37 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-08-96 You can include this one in the Digest: The contradiction between the Emerald City being built by the Wizard VS statements even in the FF that there's always been a capital city in the center of Oz, can be easily resolved. The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz makes mention of a pre-Wizard capitol city in the center of Oz--which was destroyed by the Wicked Witches and whatever evil forces they used to seize Oz. Then, when the Wizard arrived, he rallied the Ozians to build a new city on the ruins of the old. The destroying and rebuilding of cities happens all the time in history---down come the barbarian hordes or the conquering armies, then the city/town/village must be rebuilt. Of course, there were also ancient cities that were never rebuilt . Hope this helps! Melody Grandy Keller ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 02:40:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: A Review of Tedrow's Dorothy--Return to Oz Blogo: Tedrow: Hi. Can I help you? Sharts: My name is Sharts, MD, and this is my colleage Blogo the Rare Beast. We've been sent by the Association of Heretical Authors of Oz to torture you. Tedrow: But why? Blogo: Your book, Dorothy--Return to Oz, sucks. Sharts: On several counts. First, you totally ignored the Oz books, even though you claim that your father read them to you as a kid. Secondly, you rely wholly on the movie. Thirdly, your plot is unoriginal; you copied the MGM movie's basic plot and stuck Dorothy's granddaughter, which you unoriginally named Dorothy Gale as well, and several parallelized characters of your own in. Fourthly, your book is a morality play; we don't have any problem when the story has a moral to it or demonstrates why one should or should not behave in a certain manner, but your whole book is dedicated to shoving morality as you see it down the reader's throat. Fifthly, your major characters are shallow. Sixthly, you turned the original Dorothy into a monomaniac. Seventhly, you had magic able to impinge on one's morality, all the Munchkins being changed into wicked witches; in Oz books there is not only no source supporting this possibility, it is also contradicted by the 100% cannonical The Giant Horse of Oz, in which Mombi's attempt to change Orin into a wicked witch result in the Ozureanian queen transforming into "Tattypoo" the fake Good Witch of the North. Eighthly, you will the prize for lamest named characters, namely for Ima Witch, Ura Wizard, and Itsa Dragon. Ninthly, the Wizard had no son, and even if he did, that man would not have ascended to the throne, as, since we're going by the MGM movie, the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, and Cowardly Lion were left to rule the Emerald City. Tenthly, your writing style is confusing. And last but not least, your book is mistitled; Dorothy the First does not return to Oz, and since Dorothy the Second has never been to Oz before, she cannot be said to return there. Tedrow: And for all that you're going to beat me up? Sharts: Well, if you want, we can complain that your book fails to meet the main purpose of Oz heretica, that is, it fails to develop characters beyond what could be done in an ordinary Oz book. If you're going to write heresy, you might at least write something deep and meaningful. Your book develops characters no deeper than in the MGM movie. Blogo: Can I nougie him, Boss? Sharts: Sure. You start on him, and I'll go back to the car and get the video tapes of those episodes of Kids in the Hall. Tedrow: No! Not them! Sharts: Blogo: Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 15:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Michael: There is not necessarily a contradiction between Baum writing "drafts" of Oz books and Baum getting info from informers in Oz. We can assume that Baum sometimes got his info in bits and pieces and wrote whole books around a few snippets. As more info came in, he was able to write the "real" story. Aaron: I think that may have been the thing. Dranol Drabbo, a first-year amateur student, "accidentally" reverses Lurlines spell, created by the Queen of Faries and which has had 700 to install (and instill) itself in the land? No Way! Too imlpausible. As for your comment that some other books on the HACC are also implausible, that is the reason for HACC2. Stephen T: The Universe of HACC2 will be the Universe in which only the FF is canononical, in that other books which are written there will not further define the Ozian situation and will not be binding on other authors. This will not cause problems, as the main philosophy of HACC2 is that the FF has already fully defined Oz and there will NEVER be any major changes to the Ozian situation. HACC1, however, is different. It is more dynamic, and new books DO define and change the Ozian situation and "bind" historians. There is still a large amount of room for creativity and freedom, however, and it is still the case that an author writing for HACC1 can write (just about) anything he or she desires. On "Stage Door Johnnies": Thanks for the info that so many people provided. I wonder if Josie Bisette or Christina Applegate have any of these? (If not, I volunteer!) Dave: Not meaning to dampen your spirits, but I really would not call the Steady-State Oz *your* MOPPeT. This Universe was someting that we needed, and you were the first person to actually spell it out for us. Therefore, I claim that you did not invent it, you just brought it out of our dark subconscious into the full light of day with your eloquent analysis :-) A universe where the FF is not only the core of Ozzy history, but also the end-all, be-all, first, last and only word about ALL things Ozzy is one that would be supported by a large number of Oz fans and we need it. In honor of your words, HACC2 will also be known as the "Steady-State" Universe. The original purpose of HACC2 was to provide a place for Oz authors who have not read the entire FF and are not familiar with the changes that post-Baum writers implemented. This Universe may still be required, and if so would become HACC5. I too would like Dan to be able to spend more time with Ozma. In Oz, of course, this is very possible with the use of magic. For example, suppose Dan has just completed a mission/adventure in Rinkitink. In order to get back to the Emerald City, he would not necessarily have to spend weeks crossing the deadly desert and other Ozzy terrain to reach his beloved. Ozma could give him a compass like in _Shaggy Man_, and he could return anytime he desired. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 10, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 14:40:50 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-09-96 SJT - About your suggestion for the pronounciation of Munchen (Munich): didn't somebody, (probably Michael P. Hearn) raise the suggestion that the source of the word "Munchkin" was from one of Baum's children's misspronounciation of the name of a statue of a little German boy, the "Muchen Kind"? Melody - I agree. It makes perfect sense that the Emerald City was built on the ruins of an ancient city. It's also true that this happens all the time - in fact, I've heard an archeologist say that the best places to dig are IN exsisting cities. Sometimes, cities were built over cities which were built over cities. The further down you dig, the further back in history you go. I seem to remember that there were at least seven cities which built (or rebuilt) and ruined on the site of ancient Troy. Aaron - I agree with everything negative Sharts and Blogo had to say about "Dorothy - Return to Oz", only more so. Except you misunderstood the title: it refers to the Ozian's cry for Dorothy to return to Oz and help them out. Someday maybe I'll have the time to translate my published review of this horrendous book into English. But here are some points I think Aaron missed: in the entire first half of the book, nothing happens, except for an endless repetition of various ominous signs. These signs are also presented in an innapropriate style of narration. Instead of telling stories or giving information, all the cues given are visual, as if Tedrow were writing instructions for a movie camera. And these visual cues are not given from the viewpoint of one of the characters, in fact, Tedrow keeps saying things like "as soon as Dorothy looked away" or "Behind Dorothy's back". These are all the kind of solutions a movie director would give when adapting a book into a movie. But when you're actually writing a book, giving information "visually" is perfectly uneccesary. Why write: "If Dorothy had only looked in the magic crystal, she would have seen the sky-writing which spelled out: "Dorothy! Help us!"" , instead of simply writing: "the citizens of Oz tried again and again to reach Dorothy, or send her a message - to no avail". And, the biggest sin of all, the worst thing any heretical writer has ever done: THE SCARECROW AND TINWOODMAN HAVE DIED!?!?! "OF OLD AGE"?!?!? *NOT!* Gili ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 11:52:03 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: 10,000 HACCs Is it my imagination or is the number of HACCs expanding out of hand? My personal preference would be to assume that everyone is at least partly right and so shoehorn everything into one HACC unless it can be proven to be heretical or too contradictory beyond a reasonable doubt. Was it my imagination or did two different people ask about Betsy Bobbin's past using the exact same wording? Betsy and Hank made their debut in _Tik-Tok of Oz_ when they escape a sinking ship and end up in the Nonestic Ocean. Before then Betsy is supposed to be from Oklahoma, but I have this theory that--oh, hello Kabumpo. SJT, _Lurline's Machine_ is a series Aaron and I have been writing which takes place in Oz's future, of which Aaron has blabbed a considerable amount. We are trying to solicit some outside reviewers, so if you would like to read the latest draft of the the first book in the series, _The Woozy of Oz_, send Aaron (adelman@yu1.yu.edu) a message and he'll send you a copy. Please be aware that all the good parts you'll like are what I wrote. (: Aaron, calm down. We need no holy wars on the digest. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 10:45:34 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 05-09-96 As far as I know, there are at least two different "states" for THE ANNOTATED WIZARD OF OZ. The earlier state has a light yellow dust jacket, and a later state has a darker yellow dust jacket. I remember ordering a copy of the later state from an overstock book catalog. Kicked myself a few years later for not having ordered more. Cheer, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 10:41:27 -0700 From: steller Subject: (no subject) Daniel Wall: Probably many others have sent this in (but maybe they were all thinking the same thing): Betsy Bobbin first appears in _Tit_Tok of Oz_. Aaron S. Adelman: I don't have problems with the Bible per se. The problem is the essential difference between those who believe the Bible is a wonderful collection of books written over a period of years and fundementalists who believe that the Bible is infallable and every word in it is to be taken as *literally* true and anything that disagrees with the Bible must therefore be in error. There seems to be a similar dichotomy among fans. In Science Fiction circles there was the the split between supporters of *fiawol* (fandom is a way of life) and fijagdh (fandom is just a G-- D-- hobby). In Ozian circles there is a differences between those you consider the Oz books *history* (who can be called fundementalists) and those who consider excellent stories. Avigail: I know Fred M. is trying to get _Emerald Rain_ translated, but the person he had been expecting to translate it died. He is not in the best situation to find a new translator as he will be in the hospital for several more weeks at least. If you find another copy of _Emerald Rain_ keep me in mind, I will gladly buy it from you. (I'm sure thatmany others would say the same.) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 15:00:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-09-96 From: Barb DeJohn Hi Digest!!! I was watching "Guiding Light" and there was an OZ reference. Michele Bauer (dressed in a candy-stripper outfit) said "I look just like Dorothy from The WIzard of Oz." In Ladies Home Journal (June Issue) Roseanne says "I wish at an earlier age I'd learned what I know now-- that I'm a good person," "But I just didn't get it. It's like Dorothy in Wizard of Oz. She had the power to go home all the time, and you know, we all do." Oz references are everywhere!! Dave: It is probably just as well that you don't model Ozma after a sweetheart. What if you broke up? You wouldn't want the constant reminder. I am now ok with the idea of Dan and Ozma dating but don't rush and marry them off. Wouldn't it be better to have them date for a long time. Then you could have lots of future adventures with them without hampering anyone else's stories and if he wasn't mentioned it wouldn't seem as odd. Melody: When is Volume II of The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz coming out? I am anxious to read it. Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 16:32:04 -0400 From: homer A few comments on "Oz Casting Call" that was in here yesterday. Some of those were really far stretches!! Angelica Houston as Glinda??!!?? Come on!!! Some were good, such as "The Picket Fences Guy" as the Wizard. (I'm assuming you mean Fyvush Finkel) ~sp? P.S. You have to keep in mind that Trot is two years YOUNGER than Betsy Bobbin, but the actress you have playing her is about six to eight years OLDER. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 16:09:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-09-96 Danny: Bettsy Bobbin first appears in TIKTOK OF OZ. Also, the guy from PICKET FENCES and MY FAVORITE MARTIAN is Ray Walston, who also was featured as Luther in SOUTH PACIFIC. David, et al: I do not feel that marrying Ozma, etc., limits any Oz author in any way. If, as an Oz author, I choose to limit myself to the FF as being canonical, then any subsequent writing becomes essentially irrelevant to me -- unless I choose to acknowledge it (with the permission of the subsequent author, of course). BTW and while I'm at it... I can't envision Ozma, who's been referred to zillions of times as a "little ruler," "little princess," "girl princess," etc., is meant to evolve into someone who'd want to get married. Perhaps I was too thoroughly convinced in KABUMPO (p.256) when Ozma says: "I'm not going to marry anybody!"RPT says Ozma was "dismayed by even the thought of marrying; for though the little Ruler of Oz has lived almost a thousand years she is no older than *you* are and would no more think of marrying than Dorothy or Betsy Bobbin or Trot. Ruling the Kingdom of Oz takes almost all of Ozma's time and in any that is left she wants to play and enjoy herself like any other sensible little girl. For Ozma is only a little girl fairy after all." And she STAYS a little girl fairy consistently throughout the entire Oz canon: the 39 books in which she is acknowledged as ruler. Of course a character can develop and grow in a series, but this feels as wrong to me as it must have felt to Baum, Thompson, Neill, Snow, Cosgrove-Payes, and the McGraws. --Robin (Yes, Eric, I'll probly watch DR. WHO) Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 17:12:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Lurline's Machine 1) Daniel, Betsy Bobbin first appears in Tik-Tok of Oz. 2) Stephen, Lurline's Machine is my brother's and my subseries which by definition comes after all other current Oz books. Contentwise expect Oz as you know it to change, way beyond what Dave is proposing in his books. None of the books have been published yet. The first book, The Woozy of Oz, is basically finished and will probably be submitted for publication during the summer. Later books--A Civil War in Oz, Mombi of Oz, Trot of Oz, and The Queasy in Oz--have been written in part. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 19:15:21 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests 05-08 & 09-96 Digest of 5/8: Gili: Was Taylor in LASSIE COME HOME? I'd forgotten that, but I haven't seen it since it first came out. (Alas, I'm nearly as old as Taylor...) I know her big picture from that time was NATIONAL VELVET. But I think at that age she was still a bit young for Ozma. Maybe when she was playing Amy in LITTLE WOMEN a couple or three years later? Oh, there definitely is a JUDGE DREDD IN OZ comic - I mentioned seeing it in a London bookstore last year. But it has nowt to do with -our- Oz. Jane: I got the BUGLE yesterday and will fill out the questionnaire about the Centennial Convention tomorrow, or maybe even tonight, and get it off to you (or whoever it goes to) by Saturday. Mike: I agree that one should pronounce a name the way the namebearer prefers - you should hear the variations on my last name! (Fortunately, few Anglophones mispronounce "David"...) But I have no clue as to how Pluto's moon wants its name pronounced. Aaron: There's more to having children than being married, and I think the Scarecrow and Scraps lack the facilities to do it the human way. If the children come by magic, I presume they could be stuffed with almost anything. Or need not be stuffed at all. I doubt if Jinnicky is married, or the subject would have come up in SILVER PRINCESS. But I doubt if he ever would be, either; I didn't really suggest him seriously as a consort for Glinda. Steve: Well, there are a few other named witches in Oz - Coo-ee-oh, Plush, Little Blue Schoola, Aunt Geranium, maybe Faleero (she's a fairy as well, but she's referred to as a "witch" in PURPLE PRINCE), maybe Cinderbutton (IIRC we don't know where Kadj went to visit her; it might have been Oz), and possibly others who escape my memory at the moment. But there are quite a few unnamed ones as well. Vladimirsky may have been the original illustrator of the Volkov books, but the copy of SEVEN UNDERGROUND KINGS that I have (gratia Gili) is illustrated (quite nicely, but in B&W only) by Aleksander Koval'. Badger: Actually, I know quite a few Wiccans, Witches, and pagans. (I've been around SF fandom for 35 years now; it's hard to miss them.) And I know a fair amount about their beliefs and practices, though certainly not as much as one who subscribes to the religion would. But although the term "witch" may have originated to refer to a particular class of religious practitioner (arguable, but certainly possible), and their spiritual descendants may have adopted the term today to refer to themselves, the word "witch" long ago became a common noun in English with the usual freight of connotations that common nouns pick up in a language. I object to anyone trying to appropriate a common noun and insisting that it no longer means what it's meant for centuries. But this is drifting far enough from Oz that if you want to discuss it further it should probably be in private E-mail. Dave: There's always the pairing of the dance at the end of SCALAWAGONS, where the established couples of Uncle Henry/Aunt Em and Jenny Jump/Number Nine choose each other, to give a clue as to other relationships. I can't remember if the Wizard dances with Ozma or Glinda in that one; I know the Tin Woodman dances with the other. (And Neill has them dancing in positions that would make it very difficult for the lady to follow, but maybe he wasn't much of a dancer...) Digest of 5/9: Danny: Betsy Bobbin first appeared in TIK-TOK OF OZ. She's the main child character in it, taking more or less the role that Dorothy played in OZMA. Unfortunately, it's impossible to maintain the kind of "dynamic tension" you'd apparently like to have in any open-ended series with a sizable fixed cast of characters. It's just possible to knock off a minor character on rare occasions (as, for instance, Johnny Keems and Orrie Cather are killed at a couple of points in the Nero Wolfe books), but you know nothing irreversibly bad is going to happen to the main characters in the series unless the author gets tired of it - and for a truly open-ended series like Oz, even that doesn't work. I mean, any author could go through and decimate Oz, but anyone who did would promptly be ruled heretical and future authors would ignore his book. This doesn't mean that it might not be an enjoyable book, but it would interrupt the chain in a way that future authors wouldn't want to accept as a premise for their books. This is probably why some authors who really like to have their protagonists worked over, like Dick Francis, don't usually write in series. Aaron: Out of curiosity, did you actually type "tat i pu =3D", or is the "=3D" what the Internet passed (either from you to Dave or from Dave to me) instead of some other character? If you typed it, what is it supposed to mean? Barry: Button-Bright's character is much better developed in SKY ISLAND than in any of the FF; I consider SKY ISLAND (along with DOT AND TOT, ZIXI, SANTA CLAUS, JOHN DOUGH, and SEA FAIRIES) as effectively canonical, since it's by Baum and deals with Oz characters in a way that's consistent with the FF. (I also consider it Baum's best book, FWIW.) But he's still not one I'd consider suitable for Glinda, even grown up. He's much too laid-back. As I said to your brother, I wasn't really serious about Jinnicky and Glinda. But I think Jinnicky has a very strong personality, especially in PURPLE PRINCE (and the non-FF YANKEE). Danny again: I don't think the idea was to "cast" Ozma and/or others, as if for a stage or screen production, but to pick models for an artist to use in illustrating Dave's book. That (along with the fact that I rarely see either films or TV these days, so I don't know many names of current actresses) is why my suggestions mostly hark back to the Fifties and Sixties (and sometimes even Forties). It's still easy to find pictures - both still and moving - of those ladies. Of course, women were better looking back in those days... :-) :-) :-) Eleanor: Was "Life Upon the Wicked Stage" in the Fifties movie of SHOW BOAT? I don't remember it, and I've seen the movie several times. I only saw the Thirties one once, so can't speak to that one (though it was a much better movie). I only have that song as an add-on to a cast album from a London stage revival of about ten years ago. I concur with your praise for Eric's "Ozian Economy" article - very well done! Take a bow, Eric! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 20:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Dave and the Princess ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) writes: > This is why so many people create their own characters, so they CAN do > whatever they want to include dynamic tension and leave established > characters alone. This is an excellent point. Thompson married off lots of princesses in her Oz books. There was the Princess Peg Amy of Sun Top Mountain, Princess Pretty Good of Perhaps City, Princess Marygolden of Corabia, Princess Planetty of Anuthur Planet, etc. All of these were Thompson's own characters, and nobody questions her right to marry them off. But she *never* stooped to marrying off one of Baum's princesses, much less *The* Princess. Is Dave so lacking in imagination that he can't come up with a princess of his own? (Note that the above is designed to provoke Dave into revealing to us the existence of a truly wonderful fairy princess of unearthly beauty and delightful disposition who will make Dan much much happier than Ozma ever could. :-) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 00:31:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Ozma and Dan - Minor change: I still assert that a boyfriend, even a husband, for Ozma, would not necessarily put a burden on other HACC1 writers if the marriage is treated lightly. As you suggested, we can create a situation where Ozma does not pine for him when he is away. I believe Dave has a responsibility to ensure that Dan is only a small (although important) part of Ozma's life. She is first and foremost the ruler of Oz, and such duties overshadow everything else. Therefore, I submit that Ozma's post as ruler of Oz is not affected by her having a husband. Rather, it the case that Ozma's marriage is affected by her being ruler of Oz. Let us assume that Dan knows this. While he and Ozma love each other, Dan knows that Oz will always come first. Perhaps that is why he will spend most of his time away from the capital. Dan knows that he will always command only a minor part of Ozma's attentions, but he accepts this because their love for each other is so strong. He is grateful for what little time they can spend together. IMHO, making a major and irreversible change to a character may warrant a book being declared Historically Inaccurate and having the dubious honor of being sent down to Aaron's HI/RCC. I am a little hesitant to give each book a "Universe" of its own. We already (or will soon) have four, plus possibly one more, plus all the "inaccurate" ones in Aaron's Universe. However, make no mistake. Ozma having a husband (even one as itinerant as Dave) is a change. I just think that, if it is done right, the change will not be enough to force HACC1 writers in a course that is more pre-determined that the one already established by the existence of the FF. On the paint Mombi: I stated it that way because I remember some people commenting that it WAS the real Mombi. This may have been in Nate's Ozian Times or the Oz research group or something else. I believe that it is obvious that the thing created by Jack P. was only an image. Danny: Betsy Bobbin arrived in _Tik-Tok of Oz_, Baum's eigth book. She did not get to Oz until the end, but she fast became friends with everybody and was soon well installed among the EC elite. On Episodical Oz: One can argue that this same lack of tension exists in every TV show and book series ever written. 999 times out of 1000, the good guys win and almost NEVER is a major good character killed off. It has happened only once in Star Trek, for example, and only once in DRAGONLANCE. I don't think I have ever read, saw or even heard of a story in which evil triumphs and/or most of the good characters are killed off. True, this is somewhat more pronounced in Oz, as there is also very little violence. One of the reasons for this is so that writers will not have to re-invent the wheel every few years. That is, if the major players get killed off on a regular basis, they will have to keep inventing new interesting people to be on the show/book/etc. Not only is this a lot of work from a creative standpoint, but IMHO, people would lose interest without some degree of continuity. Could you imagine a TV show where a major character dies every month or two? By the way, another reason people develop new characters istead of only re-using the old ones is that they can have the pleasure of creating something of their own, as well as the fun of building on something that has gone before. Aaron: The Lurline's Machine Universe got bumped to #3 because I am assuming that more people are likely to write material that will go into the Steady-State/Pure-FF HACC than they will for yours. Not to put down your Universe of course, it will simp[ly have less contributors and by its nature will be more accepted than yours. Besides, much like Snapple, you can revel in the fact that "Threedom equals Freedom" :-) Daves book will probably go into HACC1 as long as Dave accepts the fact that Dan will only be a minor part of Ozma's life, as I mentioned above. As David Hulan has pointed out, if Dan plays too large a part in Ozmas life, and by extension the rest of Oz, it would fundamentally change Oz to the point where other writers would be cramped. Much as I hate to do it, _Dinamonster_ must be relegated to Aaron's HI/RCC. It (as were so many others) went in the original HACC only as a result of compromise with Chris Dulabone, who felt that ANYTHING by someone named Baum was, by definition, accurate Oz history. I can no longer accept this even as part of a package deal. I will have to go with Barry and say that it is not a requirement that two people who get together have the same career. DAvid: I liked your review of Anfuso's _Winged Monkeys_. The book is on order and I should get it fairly soon. In the name of accuracy, we can assume that the winged monkeys, after living in EC for a little while, admitted to Ozma that they only moved there due to their fear of Ozma's anger. Once the little misunderstanding has been smoothed over, Ozma creates a nice little forest for them, and they depart. Homer: What you say is close to the truth. There is ALMOST no-one good enough for Ozma. That is why Dave is inventing a new character. He will have to be a VERY good and noble person to be worthy of our Ozma, but I think he wil be. YOur concerns have been discussed on the digest before (many many times), but it is enough to say that the Ozma we know from the FF is a good, kind, caring, sweet compassionate person. In my opinion, her developing an honest relationship with a good person would not ruin that. Ozmas status as single is, IMHO, not a fundamental characteristic of Ozma, despite her comment in _Kabumpo_ when she said "I'm not going to marry anybody". Therefore, I am of the opinion that the presence of a boyfriend would not change Ozma at all, except to provide some character development. Homer again: While I am sure that Dave will be more than happy to provide you with the list of acronyms we use on the digest, let me describe HACC. HACC stands for Historically Accurate Chronological Chain. This is the set of Oz books that have been determined to be accurate Ozzy history, as defined by the FF, and to a lesser extent, other accurate books. In the past, there was only one of these, but as people such as Eric Gjovaag have pointed out, there are many authors and publishers, each with their own level of knowledge of Oz. While we define the FF to be the core of Oz, not every author has read the entire FF. Not every author has even read the entire Baum 14, and thus may write stories that are very different from each other. With this in mind, we have split the HACC up into multiple "Universes", similar to the Multi-Verse situation in Heinleins 's _Number of the Beast_. THis has not actually been done yet, but hopefully it will by this weekend. Here is what we are workign with so far. HACC1: The mainline Universe. This is where most Ozzy material will go. The FF is assumed to be the baseline of Ozzy history, but other novels can further define and change the Ozzy situation. It is living, dynamic history. This will require cooperation among authors, and sharing of ideas, but that's what the Internet is for! HACC2: The Steady-State Universe. This term was suggested by our own Dave Hardenbrook to describe an Ozzy Universe that was also based on the entire FF. However, unlike HACC1 the FF is more than just the start of something that goes on forever. In this Universe, the FF has fully defined all major historical occurences and character development. No major new things can happen in this Universe. Time almost stands still. True, there are adventures and new characters, but the meld into the background. This Universe is for people who are concerned that some stories change Oz too much from its roots. HACC3: The Lurlines machine Universe. This Universe is host the Adleman brothers series of books that will apparantly be a little different from your standard Ozian fare. This Universe has been named after something in their books that changes the situation in Oz enough to warrant their own Universe. HACC4: March Laumer. You've heard of him, and here he is! The infamous March Laumer, who writes Oz books that, while accurate textually, are very different from most Oz books. His books are definitely adult in nature, and they define an Oz that is so different that it simply MUST have its own Universe. However, IMHO there is no pornography in these books, and I view them as some of the best books I have ever read. Note that this Universe is only accurate to the first 36 of the FF. The other 4 never "happened", since Mr. Laumer never read them and some stuff in his books vastly contradicts events in the final four of the FF. HACC5: Baumiana. This Universe is similar to HACC2, except that instead of the entire FF, we are further restricted to the Baum 14. Bear: Shocked by "Mother" Lurline's refusal to allow her to marry, Ozma and Dan flee to Rinkitink, where the jolly king gladly seals them in holy matrimony for all time. Melody: I used to theorize that there was a small castle, and some nearby villages. After all, the 50,000 people who live there had to have come from SOMEWHERE! Aaron: I hereby banish Tedrow to the nether reaches of the space time continuum. He is assigned to HACC infinity plus one to the negative tenth power. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 09-May-96 23:40:00 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DAVID H.: >I don't think the idea was to "cast" Ozma and/or others, as if for a stage or >screen production, but to pick models for an artist to use in illustrating >Dave's book. But as long as Danny brought it up, why not do it? (see below) :) :) :) (Many of the characters I would cast are the same as how I would illustrate them.) DANNY'S "CASTING CALL" >Ozma-- the Acadamy Award winning girl from THE PIANO Holly Hunter? >Shaggy Man-- Christopher Lloyd My vote is for British actor Bill Travers (Joy Adamson's hubby in _Born Free_), who plays a very effective "shaggy man" on the britcom _To the Manor Born_. >Glinda-- Angelica Houston I associate Angelica Houston too much with _The Witches_ to see her as Glinda. My vote for Glinda is Irish musician Enya, or if you insist on an actress :) , Judy Davis. >Tattypoo-- Carol Channing (esp. with a name like that!) Carol Channing is too gaunt, IMHO -- I'd go for British actress Margaret Rutherford if she were still alive, but as she's not, I might opt for someone like Angela Lansbury for Tattypoo (or Locasta). >Scarecrow-- Robin Williams Great choice! >Tin Woodman-- Harrison Ford Too macho, IMHO -- How about Tom Hanks? >Cowardly Lion-- Computer FX voiced by James Earl Jones (ala LION KING) Another good suggestion! >Nome King-- Danny DeVito How about Bobby Fischer? :) :) :) >And the Wizard. . . For the Wiz, I'd say Carl Reiner. Others on my _Dramatis Personae_: Scraps -- Whoopi Goldberg Polychrome -- Goldie Hawn The Hungry Tiger -- British actor Mark Wing-Davey Percy -- Dudley Moore The Wogglebug -- Richard Hayden Lurline -- British Actress Penelope Keith The Adepts -- Figure Skater Oksana Baiul and Agnetha and Frida from ABBA. TYLER: >I too would like Dan to be able to spend more time with Ozma... Dan: You mean there are people on Dave's Digest who *don't* want to send me to Skampavia??? :) :) :) > ... he would not necessarily have to spend weeks >crossing the deadly desert and other Ozzy terrain to reach his beloved. Ozma >could give him a compass like in _Shaggy Man_, and he could return anytime >he desired. This is a good idea! REVIEWS: Thanks to David for his review of _Winged Monkeys_ and Aaron and Gili for their joint review of _Dorothy -- Return_! As soon as things have gotten a little less hectic for me, I'll post both here and for Tyler's site my own review for the Buckethead Books I've read... SERENDIPITOUS OZ REFERENCE DU JOUR: I was reading a book about _The Mary Tyler Moore Show_, and it described Murray Slaughter (Mary Richards' unconditionally suppportive collegue) as being "the Scarecrow to Mary's Dorothy". GLINDA: David H. wrote: >I can't remember if the Wizard dances with Ozma or Glinda in that one; He dances with Ozma...but does that mean Ozma should marry the Wizard??? ( I can almost hear the gasps from Bear, Robin, etc. on THAT one! :) :) ) IMHO, the best FF evidence for the potential of love blooming eventually between Glinda and the Wiz is the picture in _Glinda of Oz_ where she has her hand on his shoulder! :) 0x44617669 0x6420482E 0x20262041 0x61726F6E ( = "David H. and Aaron" :) ) : David H. wrote (to Aaron): >Out of curiosity, did you actually type "tat i pu =3D", or is the "=3D" what >the Internet passed (either from you to Dave or from Dave to me) instead of >some other character? If you typed it, what is it supposed to mean? For some reason, some characters in Aaron's messages (including the equal sign and end-of-line whitespaces) come through to me as an equal sign followed by the character's hexidecimal ASCII equivalent (the '=3D' should be '=' since 0x3D is the hexidecimal in ASCII for the equal sign). Usually, I manage to "clean up" Aaron's messages, but you just caught one that I missed. RESPONSES TO THE CURRENT "ANTI-OZMA-AND-DAN" LANDSLIDE: Barbara DeJohn wrote: >I am now ok with the idea of Dan and Ozma dating but don't rush and marry >them off. How do you guys feel about THIS? Would you feel better about it if Ozma and Dan gave it time and didn't make a hasty decision? I *DON'T want Dan to end up like Disney's Aladdin, however -- I don't know if any one else watches the show, but one begins to wonder if Al and Jasmine will *EVER* tie the knot! (Don't worry folks -- I'm NOT a cartoon-junkie..._Aladdin_ and soon _Little Wizard Stories_ is as far as it goes for me.) Homer wrote: >I think marrying Ozma is a rotten idea... This is what Lucy in _Peanuts_ means when she says, "Can I offer you a bit of destructive criticism?" :) > ... especially since there's NO ONE even halfway decent for her. What All-Powerful Genie bestowed on you the ability to know the "decency" of *EVERY* eligible bachelor in Oz? :) Homer also said that a marriage to Ozma "will ruin the concept of her that I think most people have", and Robin O. expressed the view of many that the "Ozma is just a little fairy" passage in _Kabumpo_ closes the case. Let me quote my response to this view in my FAQ: Thompson asserts in _Kabumpo_ (when Pompadore propses to her) that Ozma is a "girl" ruler, and no more likely to fall in love/get married than Dorothy, Betsy, or Trot...Could someone define the word "girl" please? Baum says that Ozma physically is fifteen or sixteen (or course she is really much older), and is therefore old enough to fall in love, and there is no reason why she couldn't allow herself to age *a little* in recent years, so that she is now of marrying age. Neill's later illustrations seem to bear this out, in which she looks definitely more mature than before. No Oz author (at least in the All-Powerful "Famous Forty") has said one way or another whether fairies liek Ozma can or cannot fall in love, and outside Oz literature, there are plenty of indications that fairies *CAN* fall in love. So there is no real objection that I can see to Ozma's having a love interest. And if Scraps and the Scarecrow, who after all aren't even "meat people", can fall in love, why not Ozma? Bear wrote: >Sorry Dave, I have just learned that for Ozma to marry she must receive >permission from Lurline...the answer would be no! :) And there you have the basis for the tension in my story! :) Robin O. wrote: >David, et al: I do not feel that marrying Ozma, etc., limits any Oz >author in any way... I have to give Robin credit for the clever Trojan Horse she set up, making it sound at first as though she's not anti a married Ozma...Thus making her negative comments which follow all the more jilting... :) :) >I can't envision Ozma, who's been referred to zillions of times as a >"little ruler," "little princess," "girl princess," etc., is meant to >evolve into someone who'd want to get married. As I say above, I'm not convinced that those phrases in quotes PROVE that Ozma is pre-teen...And Baum says she *IS* in her teens (fifteen or sixteen), and as Tyler has argued, perhaps Pompadore's proposal got Ozma thinking about love and other things, so that she is more willing to accept someone's love by the time Dan comes along...But of course this is all blasphemous clap-trap to those who regard the Oz Canon as the irrefutable first, middle, and final word on everything. But I'm still hopeful that there are enough people who are *NOT* of that view that they will be at least willing to give my book a fair chance. Tyler wrote: >Shocked by "Mother" Lurline's refusal to allow her to marry, Ozma and Dan >flee to Rinkitink, where the jolly king gladly seals them in holy matrimony >for all time. :) :) :) :) Thanks Tyler, for your comments on Dan letting Ozma put her duties as Queen of Oz first and foremost...This will help with developing Dan to be a character who I believe will not only be acceptable to *MOST* Oz fans, but will have a strong and unselfish enough character that he will set off for extensive periods and let Ozma rule. I just have one question though -- how much of Ozma's time DOES ruling Oz take? I was kind of under the impression that Oz's near-utopian state made it unnecessary for Ozma to devote more than an hour or two each day to ruling, after which she was free to relax and frolic with her friends (and lover???). Am I wrong about this? Does the Oz Canon say anything about it? -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 11, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 07:49:16 -0700 From: steller Subject: Oz Could I have actually typed _Tit_Tok of Oz_? I must need more sleep. I had to get up this morning before 5 A.M. (after going to bed at 1 A.M. to appear on a local TV station talking about _The Wizard_ on CBS. Do people really watch telebvision that early in the morning?? To be perfectly honest, Vladimirsky was the original artist for the five *original* Volkov books, but there had been an edition of _The Wizard of the Emerald City_ some twenty years before the Vladimirsky illustrated edition. It was not the lesser witches mentioned in the FF that I was referring to, it was the practice of some writers of later books to give names to characters that were not named in the FF. March Laumer is the prime offender in this catagory. The Oz and Ends piece in the new Bugle may swell the list of digest members significantly. Chris Dulabone informs me that he still is not getting e-mail. He sends his apologies to anyone who has sent him any. SJT ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:20:45 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-10-96 << From: cummingss@kenyon.edu As far as I know, there are at least two different "states" for THE ANNOTATED WIZARD OF OZ. The earlier state has a light yellow dust jacket, and a later state has a darker yellow dust jacket. I remember ordering a copy of the later state from an overstock book catalog. Kicked myself a few years later for not having ordered more. >> I still have my yellow hard bound copy. Before college I "hated" Baum's Oz book as it "conflicted" with the 1939 film of which I love best of all movies, not taking into account I was looking at it backwards. Coming across Hearn's book in my college library, I decided to "put aside" the film and read the book, and found the comprehensive annotations incredibly fascinating, particularly referred "trivia" from the later books (such as Mr. Diggs' full name). I went out and learned it was out of print, but eventually got a copy. It was this book that got me into the FF and joining the IWOZ Club in 1976 or so, and have been a member since then. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "If at first you DO succeed, try not to look *too* astonished!" < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-09-96 Great, my system goes down, giving me two VERY LONG Digests (Hey, everyone, can we try and be more consice, please?) to reply to. Well, at least I'm working in a school computer lab today with LOTS of great Internet connections today. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-07-96 > > Eric: > Well, yeah, Imogene the Cow in GIANT GARDEN doesn't resemble Imogene the Cow > from the stage WIZARD except in name. I didn't mean to imply anything else. > But I'd bet the stage one is where Shanower got the idea for a bovine > character named Imogene. I know, and you know. I was just trying to clarify things who may NOT have known, considering the way some of the notes about Imogene were coming out. > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest > > OZ CASTING CALL (forgive me not knowing some of the names)-- > > Ozma-- the Acadamy Award winning girl from THE PIANO Anna Paquin (but she seems more like Trot to me). > From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-96 > > Stephen Teller: > Just read your review of "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" and, though I > certainly respect your opinion, I was rather shocked by your rather > cyncial assumption that the use of the word "Facsimile" on the dust > jacket was intentially misleading, rather than an unfortunate mistake. > The fact is, someone at Morrow failed to show the jacket copy to me or > the editor-in-chief and get our approval before it was published. It > was a terrible mistake and we all deeply regret it, but I'd like to > think that you could have at least inquired to find out why the term > was used erroneously instead of assuming the worst. I'd just like to add my two cents here, if I could, about the "Bugle" review, although I know it's going to get me into trouble again. I want to say that I did not disagree with a single word Stephen wrote (with the possible exception of the final sentence about demanding a refund -- a little harsh, IMHO, especially in light of what Peter's just told us). But there were only about two paragraphs devoted to reviewing the book, and the rest was decrying the changes made. This, IMHO, is not a proper review of the book as a whole, but an attack on the changes. While I do think it important that readers, especially Oz readers, know about these changes, I think it would have been a lot more fair to present a more balanced review. Let's face it, only about a half dozen pages were affected out of over three hundred. And that is now my final word on the subject. > From: rri0189@ibm.net > Subject: Ozzy digest > > >I was watching StarTrek Voyager last night, and one of the characters > >looked like Margaret Pellegrini (the Munchkin). Does anyone know if it > >was she, I could not find her name in the credits, but the role was a > >small one. I hope to see her in Sedan, KS later this month and would > >like to mention it to her. > > I shouldn't think so. According to TV Guide, the "background" performers > were all members of Cirque du Soleil. But this character was not in the background, she was in the forefront nearly as much as Michael McKean's Clown. I'm fairly certain it was Patty Maloney, as her name (unlike Margaret's or Zelda Rubenstein's) was in the opening credits. Can we PLEASE not condemn Ozma and Dan's romance until Dave actually writes it, it's published, and at least some of us get a chance to READ it? (This, IMHO, is one of the biggest dangers in posting story ideas to the Digest.) --Eric "Off to eat lunch" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:48:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-10-96 > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digests 05-08 & 09-96 > Of course, women were better looking back in those days... :-) :-) :-) HA! My wife has 'em all beat! (Of course, I suspect many other married men on this list will say the same thing...) > I concur with your praise for Eric's "Ozian Economy" article - very well > done! Take a bow, Eric! Having now read it for the first time in years, all I can say is: That young whipper-snapper did do a pretty good job on it, didn't he? (But I still want to see the "Bugle" publish the follow-up Patrick Maund wrote as well. Well, Patrick?) Tyler, with all these HACC's popping up, are we going to have a book called "Infinite Crises in Oz" in fifty years to reconcile them all? (In-joke there for DC Comics fans.) --Eric "Still got opinions, just don't say 'em very often" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 16:17:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-10-96 Dave: I didn't mean to set up a Trojan Horse trap, so I can't take any credit for having been clever there. Y'all marry her off, give her triplets, divorce her, or widow her. It won't affect how I think of her. She's a little girl...maybe 15ish...for me. Of course she can grow up and of course fairies can fall in love (gee, what a straight line!), but Ozma in my writing will stay a single little girl, no matter who writes her as anything else. Scraps/Scarecrow: So they don't have the facilities? Remind me to show you a certain photo of that twosome acting up at an OzCon many years ago...! (Pete, Steve...remember?) ;) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:44:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Dichotomy in Oz 1) Stephen, your religious dichotomy seems rather artificial. My own views place the Jewish Bible as being above just a wonderful collection of books, many of them being literally the word of G-d, and I do believe in the importance of the simple meaning of the text, but I definitely do not hold by taking the text by literalistically. Doing so would create more problems than it would solve; since the Hebrew Bible is written in human language, one has to take into account parts for which the literalistic meaning is contrary to the simple meaning. Anyone who wants me to continue on this tangent, please E-mail me privately and I'll continue this there with a hole slew of examples, because if I continue here this will become an religion digest. As for my views of Oz, I definitely do not hold by it being a real place; on the other hand, I can always say, "Let's just suppose for the moment it is" and start churning out all sorts of theories to take into account various discrepancies, which can be a lot of fun. 2) David, who are Plush, Little Blue Schoola, Aunt Geranium, Cinderbutton, and Kadj? I don't remember them from any Oz books I've read so far. Also: I wrote "tat i pu". It's just that the UNIX machines and VAXes love distorting what I write. (: 3) Dave, I am under the impression that ruling Oz takes up significantly more than an hour or two of Ozma's time each day. I remember from some book (don't remember which off the top of my head, but I think it was in the Baum 14) that Ozma spent all moring in affairs of state. Then again, with the passage of time and the development of new situations, it could come to take more or less time. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 17:45:33 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 5-10-96 Robin O : Right you are!!! RPT's words (KABUMPO, pg. 256) says it so well. "For Ozma is only a little girl fairy after all." That's how I picture her still . . . 50 years after I first read that line. That being said, I'll still buy and read Dave's book, when its published, and, no doubt, enjoy it as well. :) :) David Hulan: At the end of SCALAWAGONS, the Wizard dances with Ozma, the Tin Woodman with Glinda, the Scarecrow with Dorothy, and Scraps with Jack Pumpkinhead. It doesn't seem likely that these pairings would lead to anything more than that, does it?? I, too enjoyed your review of WINGED MONKEYS. (:-) Dick (just a HACC2 believer) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:21:08 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-10-96 Gili: I was thinking there were more like 14 cities on the site of ancient Troy, but I may be confusing it with Jericho. (I mean the number of cities on the site; I know the difference between Troy and Jericho. :-) ) Barry: There were two requests for info about Betsy Bobbin, but they were both from the same person - a message got left over from the day before, and the poster (Danny, I think) re-sent it (with some changes, but not in that paragraph) so that both appeared in the 5/8 Digest. And if you and Aaron need any other reviewers for the MS of THE WOOZY OF OZ, I'd be happy to volunteer. Steve: I think there's an important difference between the Biblical Fundamentalists and the Oz-books-are-History people (of whom I consider myself one). The former regard the Bible as not only literally true in every word (although it requires some juggling where there are apparent contradictions, like genealogies that purport to apply to the same people but differ in detail), but as an infallible guide to how one should conduct one's life. The Oz-books-are-History people, on the other hand (possibly with a few exceptions, but only a few) only regard the FF as proclaiming the truth about Oz (although it requires some juggling where there are apparent contradictions, like different accounts on how aging works or whether the Winkie country is in the west or east), and an infallible guide only to what can and can't be put into new Oz stories without their becoming heretical. And I, at least, frequently enjoy heretical books thoroughly; I just don't include them in what I consider "historically accurate" accounts of Oz. I'll reserve judgment on Dave's FAIRY PRINCESS until I read it, but he's going to have to do a really marvelous job to convince me that a royal marriage in Oz is something that future writers should accept. Do you know if there's any money available for the translation of EMERALD RAIN? My brother is fluent in Russian and writes well in English, but he's not likely to want to do that big a job for fun. If there's money available, though, I can ask him if he'd be interested. Barb DeJohn: Oz references are certainly everywhere, although the vast majority of them are clearly to the movie and not the books (even WIZARD). There was a commercial that was running on Southern California radio stations shortly before I left where a woman was arguing with her bank about a loan application that they'd lost and kept saying she hadn't turned in, and finally she says, "And I said, 'Of course! It was all a dream! And you were there, and you were there, and the house fell on the wicked witch! Why, I don't even have an account at your bank!' And they said, 'Yes you do.' And I said, 'No. I don't.'" Again, pure movie. Robin: Ozma's marriage would only limit subsequent authors to the extent that they try to fit into something like Tyler's HACC with other non-FF books. Those who don't care what other non-FF writers have said are obviously not limited - but then it's up to Tyler & Co. to decide which book goes in the HACC and which doesn't. I admit that I don't intend to let it limit my writing about Oz. I'll write what I like, and let others sort out the contradications... Tyler: The only type of series I can think of where good characters are periodically killed off or otherwise disposed of is the soap opera, where it happens all the time - usually because of a salary dispute with the actor involved. Not, I think, the model we want for Oz! :-) Although books where evil triumphs, or at least entropy triumphs, aren't so rare as all that. (True, they usually don't make series.) Offhand I can think of Jack Williamson's DARKER THAN YOU THINK, Fletcher Pratt's SEEDS FROM THE STARS, and John Brunner's TOTAL ECLIPSE, and I'm sure I could come up with others if I put my mind to it. Mostly, of course, from the SF/fantasy field, because that's where you find good-vs.-evil on a grand scale; elsewhere it's typically more individualized. (Just about all tragedies reflect the triumph of evil in some sense.) Regarding WINGED MONKEYS: *****SPOILER ALERT***** In fact, something very like your solution to their presence in the EC happens in the course of the book; I just didn't want to give away the whole plot. *****END SPOILER ALERT***** Dave: Nothing wrong with a "casting call", but since, as I said yesterday, I'm not very familiar with current film and TV stars, I can't do much in the way of input. (And I assume that casting people as they were 30 years ago isn't in the cards - aside from the fact that a lot of people on the Digest wouldn't know what they were like. Deborah Kerr as she was in the movie of THE KING AND I, for instance, would make an excellent Glinda. And Beatrice Lillie from the late Sixties would be an ideal Locasta/Tattypoo. Gladys Cooper from about the same period would as well.) Angela Lansbury, despite the fact that she's pushing 70 (from one side or the other; I'm not sure which), still seems to me to have too much sex appeal for the Good Witch of the North. I'm willing to give your book a fair chance, and have every expectation of thoroughly enjoying it. My only quibble is whether it belongs in HACC1 or not, which is an altogether separate issue. >I just have one question though -- how much of Ozma's time DOES >ruling Oz take? Acto Robin's quote from KABUMPO, "Ruling the Kingdom of Oz takes almost all of Ozma's time..." Seems authoritative enough to me. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 18:36:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Hammerheads of Oz Recently I tried ILLing Tales of Magic Land 2, but no libraries were willing to lend it. Does anyone know of a second translation of one of the stories in that book, The Fire(y) God of the Marran(e)s? If not, can anyone tell me what happens in that book? I am especially interested as to the nature of the religion of the Marrans (Volkov's equivalent of the Hammerheads). Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 20:41:51 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Dan and the Fairy Princess of Oz Dave Hardenbrook writes: > How do you guys feel about THIS? Would you feel better about it if Ozma and > Dan gave it time and didn't make a hasty decision? If Dan is Ozma's boyfriend and the story is properly written, then each reader could interpret this as they like. Those who like the idea would see a warm and gentle romance, while those who don't would see a simple friendship. Then everyone would be happy. (But I think it would be even better if you replaced Ozma with your own fairy princess. This would give you complete freedom to do whatever you like. From what I know of your story, a custom designed fairy princess would work better than Ozma anyway.) > I just have one question though -- how much of Ozma's time DOES > ruling Oz take? ... Does the Oz Canon say anything about it? I think that at the beginning Ozma had plenty of free time. She was very accessible to her people, but few of them took advantage of this since they were used to being ruled by the reclusive Wizard. After a few years the demands on Ozma's time seem to have grown considerably. In TIK-TOK Dorothy is eager to bring Betsy to Oz because Ozma is so busy ruling Oz that Dorothy is lonely and wants a playmate. By now the demands on Ozma's time must greatly exceed the supply. The only way for her to spend a lot of time on something new would be for her to cut out something else. As she puts ruling Oz first, that time would have to come out of the little that she manages to spend with her current friends. This is one of the reasons why a custom fairy princess would be a much better choice for Dan. She could have a lot of time on her hands and be quite bored. Then one day ... -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:50:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls I subscribe to a fanzine called "The BIG little TIMES." It is for collectors of something called Big Little Books which were printed in the 1930-50's era, primarily. Ozzy's know about them because there is one called "The Laughing Dragon of OZ" by Frank Joslyn Baum. I just saw a copy listed as "fine" in the BLT offered for $125 by Dick Hoffman, 1-716-745-9534, if you are interested. I have a copy and can tell you that you have to be a completist to want to buy this. All of these HACC's remind me of the theory of epicycles. We need a new Kepler wielding Occam's razor. If Scraps and the Scarecrow want to have a child it is pretty simple. They sew one up and each provides a handful of their own stuffing! :) About "dynamic tension" and knocking off characters - look what happened to A. C. Doyle when he tried to off(literally) Sherlock! I like series with continuing characters that I can get to know better. For a counter-example, look what has happened to sports teams! The constant changes have certainly reduced interest and fan loyalty. At least mine. Tyler - What next! It is bad enough having Dave trying to cram Dan down our throats without you putting him out in the sticks somewhere being "grateful for what little time they can spend together." Beam me up! Tyler >Shocked by "Mother" Lurline's refusal to allow her to marry, Ozma and Dan flee to Rinkitink, where the jolly king gladly seals them in holy matrimony for all time. Tut tut! You can't fool Mother Lurline! She immediately seals Dan in glass and installs him in Ozma's throne room where she can enjoy his company, "for all time." :) :) And, by the way, Rinkitink is no longer quite so jolly! Next! Dave >Holly Hunter? No Dave, I think he meant Anna Paquin, who played her daughter and was "given" the Best Supporting Actress Oscar over older women who had a much better claim to it. It was one of the worst award choices I have ever seen. Dave >IMHO, the best FF evidence for the potential of love blooming eventually between Glinda and the Wiz is the picture in _Glinda of Oz_ where she has her hand on his shoulder! :) You have an overactive imagination. She was simply brushing off some dandruff. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:43:55 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest DRAMATIC TENSION-- True, what I was pointing out was a danger to writers (not allowing characters to develop) or another checklist for critics (what makes a good story.) I really do not advocate killing a character off as dramatic tension. I brought this up as round-about support of Dave's Ozma and Dan. *****partial review of THE WICKED WITCH OF OZ****** For example, my remarks about dramatic tension were made shortly after I read Rachel Cosgrove-Payes' book recently printed by IWOC. I was disappointed in this book, because after a wonderful premise (the old witch reawakening) the plot really goes nowhere, literally losing its characters in the forest of Oz wandering from one random encounter to the next. The witch, Singra, remains ineffectual as most of her actions are brought about by plot contrivances (too much being in the "right place at the right time" kind of thing,) and as her immunity to water is never developed at all-- why have it? Just about the same thing can be said for every character and situation in the book. (If you're interested in further discussion, bring it up.) Like I said, after Baum's passing, the Oz books, by nature, became episodical. There can be good episodes, there can be okay episodes, and there can be bad episodes. That's just life. OZ CASTING CALL-- Yes, this was merely a humorous extension of Dave's request for models. I did take some poetic license on aging the main girl characters. But after Jurassic Park, I figured Ariana Richards would make a great Trot, as I think Trot is the most action-picture orientated of the group. My idea for the Wizard was Ray Walston, BTW, but Fyvush Finkel works beautifully. Tin Woodman as Tom Hanks, better idea than mine! (Actually, a lot of yours were.) Glinda, though-- how about Helen Hunt (Mad About You) Too young? I also thought about Glenn Close, but she seemed to. . . harsh. Polychrome as Goldie Hawn-- going for the ditzy blonde image, Dave? Of course, I can't think of anyone else right now. . . Wogglebug-- how about that Mr. Belvedere guy? Nome King-- I'll hold with Danny DeVito, but if you want a villan everyone will immediately dislike, how about Jim Carrey? Enough for now, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Barry: I am also a little concerned that the number of HACCs not grow too large, with every book having their own "Universe". However, we have five right now, and that's probably a nice number. In general, I agree with you that we should try to put any book into HACC1 unless there is a compelling reason not to do so. Dave and Barbara: I like the idea of a (relatively) extended courtship period, but beware Aladdin and other dime-store paperback romances. Remember Alice and Sam the butcher from "The Brady Bunch?" :-) This way we could ease into it and you could define Dan's character and role over several books. Robin: Your attitutde toward Ozma and Dan illustrates the need for HACC2, the "Steady State" Universe. While you accept the idea of Dave writing about Ozma's marriage, you do not feel constrained by it, since it represents a major deviation from the situation defined in the FF. This is the reason for the Steady State Universe, where the FF is the first and last word on everything. The point being that Ozma's quote and Thompson's lecture in _Kabumpo_ represented Ozma's condition at that time. According to HACC1, there is room for change, especially over a period of 75 years. According to HACC2, since this was her attitude in the FF, this will be her attitude forever. Choose your Universe! :-) Even in HACC1, though, the FF sets the tone for some situational limits. The example that David Hulan suggested, that the Tin Woodman return to his flesh-and-blood state, is definitely NOT Ozzy. David: I usually pronouce your name HOO-lawn, although it could just as easily be HUGH-lawn. Also, I don't know about comparisons of women from across the decades, but I have watched some old movies starring the likes of Katherine Hepburn and Myrna Loy, and I must say be still my heart! :-) John: While Thompson never used marriage on Baums characters, she DID change their situation once in a while. For example, she made Ojo the Prince of Seebania and she gave the Scarecrow that unusual history in Silver Island. And, of course, how could we forget Tattypoo/Orin? Who, as it turned out, DID have a husband she never knew about until her disenchantment. Also, she brought out Pastoria, who Baum mentioned but never introduced. Therefore, I submit that Thompson was not averse to changing the situation of Baum characters. According to Baum, Ozma looks fourteen or fifteen. If we allow for a slight margin of error, plus the fact that Ozma could have allowed herself to tick upward a year or two, she could be old enough to fall in love and still young enough to be called a "girl". Dave has posed an interesting question: Just what DOES entail ruling Oz? I will admit that there is little evidence in the FF. Most stories involve non-rulers having adventures outside EC and only returning at the end. Ozmas role, as someone in the BUGLE once said, seems to be final judge (when we already KNOW who the bad guy is), prize dispenser and party hostess. The mechanics of government do not come into the story much, although there is some mention of this in LUCKY BUCKY. Ozma, the Wizard and Bucky are looking at some complaints filed by citizens and are passing summary judgements. Let's put it to the people: Can anyone give us any references to the actualy ruling of Oz, at either the national regional or local level? It seems to me that there is really not all that much effort that needs to be spent on this. Oz is a relatively orderly kingdom and most of the day- to-day operations probably take place at the local level. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Saturday 11-May-96 00:00:56 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ERIC: >Can we PLEASE not condemn Ozma and Dan's romance until Dave actually >writes it, it's published, and at least some of us get a chance to READ >it? Thank you Eric! I know you're not overly enthused about either my Ozma-Dan or my Locasta ideas, but I'm glad you have the capacity to maintain an open mind (and not accuse me of throat-ramming)! >(This, IMHO, is one of the biggest dangers in posting story ideas to >the Digest.) You may have a point. (Jellia Jamb concurs as she sweats it out shovelling the mud out of the Ozzy Digest Meeting Room...) JOHN W.: >If Dan is Ozma's boyfriend and the story is properly written, then each >reader could interpret this as they like. Those who like the idea would >see a warm and gentle romance, while those who don't would see a simple >friendship. Then everyone would be happy. But I don't want to try to "make everyone happy"...That's what politicians do! (I'm sure that no matter WHAT I write, there will be those who will hate it!) BEAR: >It is bad enough having Dave trying to cram Dan down our throats... You don't like to read what I have to say about Dan? Then don't read it! (That's what the key is for!) After reading your "Lurline" scenario, I have to marvel at your continual calls to keep Oz Ozzy, and then turn Lurline into a vengeful monster who would ever do harm to Ozma, Rinkitink, etc.! Tititi-Hoochoo: So what have you been up to? Lurline: Well, that ungrateful tramp Ozma fell in love with a mortal vermin, and that fat pig Rinkitink married them, but it's okay--I kicked their little butts! *THIS* is Ozzier than what I propose in *my* stories??? TYLER: >Remember Alice and Sam the butcher from "The Brady Bunch?" :-) Or Marlo Thomas and Ted Bessell on _That Girl_ (the network cancelled them before they got around to tying the knot); or Ted and Georgette on _Mary Tyler Moore_ (they only married finally because after about a year of Ted's bogus proposals, Georgette finally put her foot down!)... >This way we could ease into it >and you could define Dan's character and role over several books. I am now working on splitting _Fairy Princess_ up into a trilogy...I'll keep you all posted ( whether you like it or not! :) :) :) ). And just another thanks to those who are supporting me...and even to those who *don't* but refrain from following the Yellow Brick "Low Road" :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 12, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 15:27:34 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-10-96 (fwd) Hi Digest! For some reason, my message from yesterday didn't get posted, so here it is again: Dave - I believe whoever it was who recommended the little girl from "The Piano" as a model for Ozma was referring to Anna Paquin, not Holly Hunter. We have discussed the flexibility of the term "little girl", but Anna Paquin was 11 when she got her Oscar, a little girl by anyone's definition! (Sorry - anyone *over eleven*!) SJT - sorry if my multiple addresses have caused confusion, but please please don't call me Avigail! Though it is officially my first name, like a certain author we all know and love, I prefer going by my middle name - Gili! Today I would just like to add some thoughts about the HACC: go ahead and form an HACC. Go ahead and try to explain away some of the contradictions in the Oz books, especially if this gives you pleasure, and/or new Oz story ideas. I also respect any author who makes an effort not to add new contradictions to a canon (or semi-canon) already riddled with contradictions. All this is good, and fun, and positive, until we start setting up rules and judging others by their compliance to the HACC. Different people like different things about the Oz books, so called "Historical Accuracy" is not the only criterion by which we judge books: we also judge according to style, and atmosphere, and our own personal likes and dislikes. Dave can write whatever he wants about Dan and Ozma - some of us will enjoy the story, some not; some will accept Dan into our personal vision of Oz, some not. I certainly don't think that if Dave writes a book in which Ozma and Dan get married, the rest of us HAVE to bring this into consideration forever after. If we like, and if Dave being the copyright holder allows, we can write Dan into our own stories in the future - but we don't have to. The HACC is great for putting some order into the masses of stories already written about Oz. However, I refuse to limit myself according to the HACC in my future writings about Oz. The Adelmans' "Woozy of Oz", of which I've read six chapters, is in direct contradiction to the story I wrote for Oziana about the Woozy. This doesn't mean that one of the stories is correct, and one is incorrect. As long as they are both enjoyable, they are equally legitimate. I hope you can all live with this view. :-) Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:01:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-96 HACC1/HACC2: Tyler said: >Your attitutde toward Ozma and Dan illustrates the need for HACC2, the >"Steady State" Universe. While you accept the idea of Dave writing about >Ozma's marriage, you do not feel constrained by it, since it represents >a major deviation from the situation defined in the FF. This is the reason >for the Steady State Universe, where the FF is the first and last word on >everything. >The point being that Ozma's quote and Thompson's lecture in _Kabumpo_ >represented Ozma's condition at that time. According to HACC1, there is >room for change, especially over a period of 75 years. According to HACC2, >since this was her attitude in the FF, this will be her attitude forever. >Choose your Universe! :-) I don't wanna choose a universe if HACC1 is the one with room for change--which I like--and HACC2 ("Steady State") holds things in stasis. I lean towards HACC2, but certainly feel that logical development of character is allowed. The time setting of the story would matter to me;if it's set somewhere during the time period of the FF, then the characters would have to be the way they were there. Yeah, I know. *Which* time period? But I hope you know what I mean. If the time setting is after MERRY GO ROUND, then I would have no problem with characters growing. They *should* grow...as long as their growth is consistent with their characterization as shown in the FF...as a logical outgrowth of the original characterization. Frozen in time makes no sense to me, either. (So why won't I let Ozma grow up, then??? ) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 10:10:39 -0400 From: homer True, I doubt Lurline would be THAT mean and vengeful, but it's happened before. In Eric Shanower's "The Forgotten Forest of Oz", Nelanthe was a fairy who lived in the forest of Burzee. She got exiled and had her immortality taken away for kissing a mortal man. And if that's so bad, then disobeying Lurline MUST be pretty horrible. OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 10:30:49 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-11-95 Eric: >(Hey, everyone, can we try and be more consice, please?) Nup. :-) Regarding Steve's Bugle review of PG, I thought it was fair enough. A reprint of an FF book doesn't need anything about the story - anybody getting the Bugle has presumably either read all the Baum books (since they're readily available) or isn't interested in the books anyhow. All that needs to be described is the quality of the production, and he conveyed quite well that that was superb. The only reason the review needed more than one column was the controversial aspect of the editing. Aaron: Plush, Little Blue Schoola, and Aunt Geranium are three witches from LUCKY BUCKY. (Actually, they're simulacra like Mombi in that book, but presumably based on real Oz witches who never appeared in a book in their natural guises.) Kadj the Conjuror is from GNOME KING; Ruggedo finds his cave, which is empty because Kadj is visiting his - niece, I think it was, or at least a relative of some kind - Cinderbutton the witch. Tyler: A several-book courtship ending in marriage is not uncommon in series fiction. I think of Dorothy Sayers's Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane, or Ngaio Marsh's Roderick Alleyn and Troy (forget her birth name), or Frances and Richard Lockridge's Bill Weigand and Dorian Hunt, for a few. (Most long series I've read have been mysteries...) All those series started with at least one book where the male detective hadn't even met his future wife; then they meet in one book (usually with the future wife as a suspect), and court over the course of two or three more books before tying the knot. My last name is pronounced the same as "human", only with an "l" instead of an "m" in the middle. To pick a nit, it's Ozma, the Wizard, and Number Nine that are reviewing complaints in LUCKY BUCKY; Bucky was still out in the Nonestic at that point, I believe. Certainly he hadn't reached the EC. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:04:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-96 Good news! The Sonics won last night, going up on Houston 3-0 in their best-of-seven playoff series. Bad news! The game was shown on our local CBS affiliate, meaning no showing of "The Wizard of Oz" in the Emerald City! I REALLY hope all that Angela Lansbury stuff at the end wasn't new, because I had no way to tape it... > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-10-96 > > Tyler: > The only type of series I can think of where good characters are periodically > killed off or otherwise disposed of is the soap opera, where it happens all > the time - usually because of a salary dispute with the actor involved. Not, > I think, the model we want for Oz! :-) You didn't see "Babylon 5" the other night, then, did you? JMS killed off TWO characters in one episode! One of them may have been the biggest shock of the series so far... > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Tyler - What next! It is bad enough having Dave trying to cram Dan down our > throats without you putting him out in the sticks somewhere being "grateful for > what little time they can spend together." Beam me up! Seems to me that if everyone would just not bring up Dan and Ozma, and let Dave get on with writing his book, Dave would have nothing to say about the matter, and we could get on to talking about more important things... (Dave, maybe you should just take the jigh road and not comment on this any more, thus giving people no fuel for their fires?) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Dave and Barbara: > I like the idea of a (relatively) extended courtship period, but beware > Aladdin and other dime-store paperback romances. You do realize, don't you, that Aladdin and Jasmine (Disney version) are FINALLY getting married this summer in the new video, "Aladdin and the Forty Thieves" (or something like that)? About time, if you ask me... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > ERIC: > >Can we PLEASE not condemn Ozma and Dan's romance until Dave actually > >writes it, it's published, and at least some of us get a chance to READ > >it? > > Thank you Eric! I know you're not overly enthused about > either my Ozma-Dan or my Locasta ideas, but I'm glad you have the capacity > to maintain an open mind (and not accuse me of throat-ramming)! Hey, just because I'm not a fan of the two-Good-Witches-of-the-North idea doesn't mean I hate ALL of you ideas! (People accusing me of holding opinions that are not mine is one reason I've had to clam up here!) I'm actually looking forward to reading about Ozma and Dan's romance, and I hope you do a good job of it. (Just don't expect me to put it into MY own personal canon -- only because the FF and books by FF authors are the only ones in my canon, and yes, that includes my own "Queen Ann in Oz.") --Eric "See, if we just let each other hold their own opinions, and not try to argue them all out...oh, never mind..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 13:10:56 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-96 << --Eric "ARTICLE ABOUT THE NEW 'DOCTOR WHO' MOVIE IN TV GUIDE THIS WEEK!!!!!!" Gjovaag >> And the last MST3K episodes in the *same issue*!! ========================== << From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) OZ CASTING CALL-- Glinda, though-- how about Helen Hunt (Mad About You) Too young? I also thought about Glenn Close, but she seemed to. . . harsh. >> How about Meryl Streep, then? << Nome King-- I'll hold with Danny DeVito, but if you want a villan everyone will immediately dislike, how about Jim Carrey? >> I like the idea of DeVito (or the fellow who plays Kramer's friend Mickey on Seinfeld). Carrey is too tall and thin for the short round Nome King: he might make a good voice over though, if Ruggedo were a computer generated character. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'.... till you can find a rock." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 11:54:14 -0700 From: steller Subject: Ozzy things In justification of my review of _Patchwork Girl_: It was not the book _The Patchwork Girl of Oz_ by L. Frank Baum that I was reviewing but the *facsimile* edition by BofW and Morrow. I presumed that most of the readers of the _Bugle_ would be familiar with the original book, and that this readership would be interested in the quality of the reproduction. I did praise the general appearance of the book, as the previous BofW/Morrow facsimiles have been praised. Considering Peter Glassmans suggestion that the book was *not* being presented as a true fascimile, I have before me _The OZ Collector_ Vol I, No.21 (Spring 1995) which has the headline "Announcing the Publication of a Facsimile of THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ!_, in which the word "facsimile" appears four times on page 1. I rest my case. Also, I did not tell buyers to demand a refund, I said they would be justified in doing so (on the basis of truth in advertising). Aaron: True, my dichotomy is an oversimplification, I am sure that all dichotomies (like all generalization) are false. There are two types of people: those who classify all people into two types and those who don't. David: Fred Meyer is trying to get _Emerald Rain_ translated if it can be done at a reasonable cost (I will need to clarify the meaning of reasonable, I hope to talk to Fred this weekend). The translation, however would not necessarily be for publication. Aaron: ****FIRE (FIERY) GOD SPOILER ALERT******** The Fire God of the Marrone's is really Urfin Djhus (or Juice, Dhus, Dhjus) from the book _Urfin Djhus and the Wooden Soldiers_ in his second attempt to conquer the Magic Land. He is not really a god at all but just a fraud who creates a class structure in the previously classless society. A, Volkov, as a good Russian Marxist, does not present a favorable view of religion, not when writing before Perestroika. *********END FIRE (FIERY) GOD SPOILER********* I enjoy heretical books, if they are well written. I can even enjoy the _OZ SQUAD_ and _OZ_ comic books. I want to thank DaveH for maintaining this Digest. There are a dozen new addresses since I joined April 24 (some are old members with new addresses). ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 11:00:56 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Well, I try to keep my posts breif, or post not at all, but you guys just pose such interesting ideas! About Ozma's ruling and governmental duties-- Acutally, I wanted to mention this in a story I'm developing, but my MOPPET is that since Oz is a benevolent commune (see Eric's MONEY article in the Bugle or the _EC of OZ_) such efforts will need constant leadership and direction. The EC seems to be the holding and distribution point for all of Oz-- massive administrative duties to be coupled with normal governmental duties like judging disputes, passing laws, and dealing with immigration (Dorothy, Betsy, Trot, etc.) Glinda seems to take the role of Oz Internal Security-- keeping watch with her Magic Book and working with our Oz heroes. Dorothy-- What's my next assignment, G? Glinda-- Well, Double-o Oz, it is that old Nome King again. W has some magic gadgets to help you out. Wizard-- See, Gale, Dorothy Gale, this egg launcher in the shape of a bonnet. . . Oops, guess I got carried away, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 15:32:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Stephen: Not the names again! This issue has been discussed on the digest previously. The problem is, while these people (WW-West and WW-East) were not named in the FF, it is reasonable to assume that they DO have names. Barry once gace a sarcastic suggestion that their parents decided to call her "The Wicked Witch of the West", "The" to her friends and "Mrs. West" on formal occassions. If somebody wants to give her a name, then I say that one name is as good as any and we may as well all use the same one for the sake of continuity. Also, authors will not have to keep writing "The Wicked Witch of the West" when a simle "Bastinda" or "Gingemma" will do just as easily. Eric: If you are interested, the digests for this month seem to be running about 19% larger than the ones from April, although the more recent ones are getting rather large. Eric again: It is true that one of the dangers of posting ideas about future stories is that people will pre-judge them, and of course, we will already know a good deal of the plot ahead of time, but that is the price that HACC1 people such as Dave and myself must pay if we want to work in a Universe that retains some level of consistency and continuity within itself. Of course, not everybody on this digest is a HACC1 person (hello Bear and Robin!), but we must do what we can. I can't wait to receive my BUGLE and read Eric's cool article! :-) On HACC 47 million and counting...: Well, I've mentioned that I don't want the number to grow too big. I am still in favor of SOME consistency, and you can't have that if each book has their own Universe. Right now, we have five. Three main ones and two for individual authors who have written (or will write) series that are accurate to the FF, but are very different from others. Speaking on that score, I must demote Adelman and Laumer again! :-( The reason for this is that HACC5 (The Baum-14-only) Universe should rightly be HACC3. This is because more people are likely to write books in this as opposed to the Lurline's Machine or Laumer Universe. Here is what I have so far: HACC1: Mainline. Dynamic and changing from the base of the FF. Requires some degree of the four C's from authors: Consistency, Continuity, Cooperation Collaboration. Also requires an author to think "How will my story affect and/or constrain future authors?" The FF still defines the CHARACTER and personal situation of the major characters. That is, the Tin Woodman cannot regain his flesh-and-blood status and Ozma cannot become a dictator who tortures her subjects. HACC2: Steady-State. Accurate to the FF, as is HACC1, but in this Universe, the FF has also defined the situation and attitude of Oz and Ozzy characters for all time. No major (and few minor) deviations are allowed from the core that is the FF. Authors do not need to work together, as the material in the FF contains everything that they need to work with, and they cannot go very far beyond it anyway. HACC3: Baumian Steady-State. Exactly as HACC2, but based only on the Baum 14 instead of the entire FF. HACC4: Lurline's machine. The Adelman brothers series. Their books are accurate to the entire FF, but some story elements are different enough from other Oz books to give them a Universe of their own. HACC5: March Laumer. The evil author is here! His books are textually accurate to Baum, etc., but they are written very differently from other Oz books in a much more adult manner. Note that HACC5 is only accurate to the first 36 (Baum, Thompson, Neill) of the FF. The later books (Snow, Cosgrove, McGraw) did not "happen" in this Universe, as Mr. Laumer never read them and contradicted them somewhat. This is, of course, not counting the HI/RCC, maintained by Aaron, which will now include _Dinamonster_ and possibly _The Third Book of Oz_. Robin: Someone who e-mailed me privately mentioned that Baum referring to Ozma as a "little girl" may have had more to do with Baum's personal impression of her rather than the actual situation. According to the anonymous mailer, Baum may have refused to see her as "growing up". Nevertheless, this is exactly how Ozma remains in HACC's 2 and 3. Aaron: ********** MINOR SPOILER FOR PIRATES IN OZ ********** WHile I don't remember Plush, Aunt Geranium and Little Blue Schoola, Kadj the Conjurer was mentioned (but never seen) in _Pirates_. Ruggedo entered his cave by accident and was cured of the curse of the seven year silence. Thompson mentioned in passing that Kadj had gone off to visit his sister, Cinderbutton the Witch, who was also never seen. I remember a little while back, when you were hammering out the plot of _Woozy_, and you mentioned bringing "all" the magic workers in the FF back, you left these two out. I wondered why, but said nothing. On Ozma's work week: By looking at some of the statements in the FF, we can assume that Ozma, at one time, was very busy ruling Oz. This, of course, would continue forever in HACC's 2 and 3, but may not in HACC1. We can assume that Ozma, after taking the throne, did not understand ruling, and thus had a lot of free time. After a few years, she began to get into the grind of ruling and found that it was a lot of work. Eventually, she learned to delegate. However, being ruler of Oz DOES take up a fair amount of time, even in HACC1, but we can assume she has SOME time for herself. David: I cannot ever remember seeing a reference to Oz that was not movie-related. On Dave's book and Ozma's marriage: I too am reserving final judgement. All that I have been saying in defense of Ozma and Dan is ASSUMING that the book is written well enough to make the marriage plausible and that the marriage will not put too much of a constraint on authors. A little constraint is expected. That is the point of HACC1. One thing Dave may consider is giving permission for BRIEF mentions of Dan by other authors, such as "Dan was currently in the Jalacasco Islands" or "Ozma was not present at the banquet, Dan being in town for a few days" or "Ozma and Dan are off visiting the Yips" said Dorothy. I'll say this: It's an all-or-nothing gamble. Either it goes in HACC1 or it is relegated to the pits of Aaron's HI/RCC. However, suppose that Dave's book bombs, but he writes several. This would then justify the creation of another HACC just for him. That would become HACC5 and Laumer would become HACC6. There are three possibilities, therefore. Bear: Believe it or not, the multiple HACCs are the result of using Occam's razor. As others have said, there are just too many authors with varying levels of knowledge of Oz to cram everything into one unified version of Oz. I honestly believe that five or so is not too unwieldy. A dozen or more would be, however. Dan being out in the sticks is the price he must pay for being in HACC1. He simply can never command a large part of Ozma's time. Danny: I'll go along with you and say that Trot is probably the most action oriented girl of the four (Trot plus Ozma, Dorothy, Betsy). Was it you who suggested Rhea Pearlman as Mombi? That was absolutely beautiful! We'd have to find a way to put John Ratzenberger in there somehow and let her go to town! Dave: you're right. You can't make everyone happy. When it gets down to brass tacks, just write your book and that's that. The only concern that I agree with is whether it belongs in HACC1. The answer to that question can only be answered when the book comes out. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 21:29:08 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Thompson Tyler Jones writes: > While Thompson never used marriage on Baums characters, she DID change their > situation once in a while. For example, she made Ojo the Prince of Seebania Ojo was a minor character who was hardly mentioned after PATCHWORK GIRL. Developing him was like Dave developing Locasta, and I have no problem with that. > and she gave the Scarecrow that unusual history in Silver Island. The Scarecrow is a main character, but this did *not* cause any change in his situation. Indeed, the primary tension of the book is that his situation would be changed, and that he would end up as a meat person ruling the Silver Island. The happy ending was that he escaped this horrible fate and stayed as he was. Incidentally, no real proof is ever given that he is the Emperor. He never "remembers" being that person. In fact, in WIZARD he remembers being alive before he ever touched the pole, which suggests that he is not the Emperor after all. > And, of course, how could we forget Tattypoo/Orin? The Good Witch of the North was another minor character, hardly mentioned after her brief appearance in WIZARD. > Also, she brought out Pastoria, Yet another minor character (whose existence was barely mentioned by Baum). > Therefore, I submit that Thompson was not averse to changing the situation > of Baum characters. Yet all of the many princesses that she married off were her own. This only serves to emphasize that Thompson new the difference between developing a character and committing sacrilege. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 23:16:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Just read Erics article on money and it's pretty cool! I liked the comparison to the Amish rather than Marxists, since there is no equivalent to a "Ministry of Central Planning" that determines what is produced and how much. Each person/family simply makes what they want and it all adds up in the end. One reason that the system seems to work so well is that for the most part, Ozites are simple rural folk who do not have any esoteric needs. Food, clothing, shelter and a few luxuries seem to be all they need or want. They do not desire 200 MHz Pentiums, Mazda Miatas or $200 desinger jackets. Most of what people need they can make themselves, and if not, they can trade for it or receive it as a gift. Eric's chart of US-Ozian currency equivalents was interesting. The fact of a $30.00 coint (piozter) may suprise some people, but our own country had a $20.00 gold piece once. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 23:28:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Unnamed Witches in Oz 1) Stephen, what's wrong with naming characters that Baum left unnamed? (Then again, I'm guilty of the same crime...) 2) Robin wrote: >Y'all marry her off, give her triplets, divorce her, or widow her... Giving her triplets or widowing her? I never thought of those. Hmm... (: 3) Dave wrote: >But I don't want to try to "make everyone happy"...That's what politicians >do! (I'm sure that no matter WHAT I write, there will be those who will >hate it!) I have to agree with this. If at least a few people aren't ticked off by Lurline's Machine, I will know that I didn't do good enough a job. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 12-May-96 00:45:08 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things STAND BY YOUR "DAN": John White wrote: >Yet all of the many princesses that she married off were her own. This >only serves to emphasize that Thompson new the difference between >developing a character and committing sacrilege. "Sacrilegious", "Rotten", "Heretical", "Socialist"...All these and more have been used to decribe a book that I have not even *written*, let alone anyone has read...Now I know how Salman Rushdie felt...(You'd think I was Hitler, Stalin, Ghengis Khan, and Bennedict Arnold all rolled into one!) >Is Dave so lacking in imagination that he can't come >up with a princess of his own? Maybe Ozma has a twin sister that Dan could have, like in _Palm Beach Story_: Rudy Valee (excited): You have a twin sister??!! Claudette Colbert: Yes, my husband was actually supposed to marry *her*, but that's another plot altogether. :) :) :) :) :) Tyler wrote: >One thing Dave may consider is giving permission for BRIEF mentions of Dan >by other authors, such as "Dan was currently in the Jalacasco Islands" or >"Ozma was not present at the banquet, Dan being in town for a few days" or >"Ozma and Dan are off visiting the Yips" said Dorothy. Yes, I would allow such brief mentions of Dan, just so long as he doesn't appear, the relationship isn't busted up, and he isn't proclaimed "not only merely dead, but really most sincerely dead". :) >Someone who e-mailed me privately mentioned that Baum referring to Ozma as >a "little girl" may have had more to do with Baum's personal impression of >her rather than the actual situation. According to the MOPPeT in _Fairy Princess_,===================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 13, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 14:15:05 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-12-96 I've started thinking about the HACC's as a timeline, with parallel lines to describe different versions. Some books could belong on more that one of the lines. But to tell the truth, my head is swimming with all the talk about HACC's, and I don't find all of it interesting. Personally, I won't mind if I don't have to read anything about HACC's for a long time. And I won't mind if I don't read anything more about Dan either, till the book is actually finished. No offence meant, I'd rather discuss things that have already been written and organised. I friend of mine e-mailed me the following advice for would be playwrights, and I think it holds here too: "the worst thing you can do is show your play to your friends before you've finished it. They will try to make you write THEIR play - you want to write YOUR play." Gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 12:48:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Wicked Witch of the West Tyler wrote: >Barry once >gace a sarcastic suggestion that their parents decided to call her "The >Wicked Witch of the West", "The" to her friends and "Mrs. West" on formal >occassions. Wait a minute...If she's "Mrs. West", who married her? I may have had Mombi had children, but who would be sick enough to have children with Bastinda? (: Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 17:38:55 -0400 From: homer Just an idea, but maybe it would be a better idea to have a character of lesser importence marry first. Then when you see how people react to it, you will know if marrying a REALLY important person such as Ozma would be a good idea. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:49:13 +0000 (GMT) From: yu150843@YorkU.CA (N. Hylton) Subject: Re: Moons and Pluto [forwarded, not-strictly-Ozzy message] [This a forwarded message from a non-Digest member in answer to the question posed on the Digest about whether a moon like Charon could itself have moons. -- Dave] On Fri, 10 May 96 05:22:45 -0500, you wrote: >I have two questions: > >1. Is there (or could there ever be) an example of a moon that itself has > a natural satellite? > Other than the asteroid 243 Ida and it's 'moon' Dactyl (imaged by the Galileo probe en route to Jupiter), I believe the answer is, no... From what I understand, the problem is that this is essentially a 3 body system, which tend not to be stable over long periods of time. Eventually, the smallest body would either impact on one of the larger bodies or be ejected from the system alltogether... From what I've read in this conference, such a system is not prohibited... It's just not likely to last for very long.... Cheers! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 15:51:27 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-12-96 Stephen Teller: >Considering Peter Glassmans suggestion that the book was *not* being >presented as a true fascimile, I have before me _The OZ Collector_ Vol >I, No.21 (Spring 1995) which has the headline "Announcing the >Publication of a Facsimile of THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ!_, in which the >word "facsimile" appears four times on page 1. I'm rather put out, Stephen, that you've taken our personal corres- pondence and now launched it on-line. As I already told you via e-mail, but which you've chosen to ignore in this further attack on me, the use of the word facsimile in "The Oz Collector" was a mistake made by the copywriter based on the mistake on the dust jacket. The fact checker for that issue of The Oz Collector checked the dust jacket of the book and so allowed the mistake to slip by. Mistakes do happen dispite all the best attempts to avoid them. Given that the magazine in which your review appeared - the Baum Bugle - is certainly prone to its own share of mistakes (the date on the cover of the issue in question jumps to mind!), I cannot understand your refusal to accept that such a mistake could happen, nor can I understand your choice to publish a public review first and then ask me later via private e-mail what the facts were. A responsible writer would ask the questions before writing his review. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 16:02:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-12-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-10-96 (fwd) > > Today I would just like to add some thoughts about the HACC: go ahead and > form an HACC. Go ahead and try to explain away some of the contradictions > in the Oz books, especially if this gives you pleasure, and/or new Oz > story ideas. I also respect any author who makes an effort not to add new > contradictions to a canon (or semi-canon) already riddled with > contradictions. All this is good, and fun, and positive, until we start > setting up rules and judging others... Oh, save your breath, Gili, goodness knows I've tried to tell them the same thing and it's done no good. Just let them have thier games and we'll have ours... > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-96 > > I don't wanna choose a universe if HACC1 is the one with room for > change--which I like--and HACC2 ("Steady State") holds things in stasis. Then don't choose one. Read and enjoy the Oz books you like, and figure out your own HACC, if you are so inclined. Let others work out their own personal HACCs, too. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Stephen: > Not the names again! This issue has been discussed on the digest previously. And yet you are now rehashing the entire argument. (Hey, everybody, it's all right NOT to respond to something at all!) > Eric again: > It is true that one of the dangers of posting ideas about future stories > is that people will pre-judge them, and of course, we will already know a > good deal of the plot ahead of time, but that is the price that HACC1 people > such as Dave and myself must pay if we want to work in a Universe that > retains some level of consistency and continuity within itself. Of course, > not everybody on this digest is a HACC1 person (hello Bear and Robin!), but > we must do what we can. Fine. Then why don't those who want to discuss the HACC and their stories' implications on it discuss it amongst themselves? > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Just read Erics article on money and it's pretty cool! > I liked the comparison to the Amish rather than Marxists, since there is > no equivalent to a "Ministry of Central Planning" that determines what > is produced and how much. Each person/family simply makes what > they want and it all adds up in the end. I'd like to add here that I was discussing pure Marxism, as envisioned by Karl Marx, not any sort of centrally planned socialism calling itself Marxism, as was practiced in the old Soviet Union. (Would have been nice if my article had been edited to alter or eliminate that reference to the USSR, I might add, which WAS current when I wrote it, which shows you how long it's been now.) Of course I'll be the first one to admit that my knowledge of Marx is shaky, and I may be misremembering my college World History class. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 19:54:49 -0400 From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Fact Only on the end of its tail does a hippopotamus have any hair. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 20:37:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Gili: That was a very eloquent speech in favor of "Let's just write what we want". For the most part, I agree with this. One thing I must say is that assignment to one of the HACCs (or sending it down to the HI/RCC) is not in itself a summary judegment. I do not consider books in HACC1 to be "better" than those elsewhere. It is simply a matter of organization and creating room for those who have different views. I say, write your own story the way you want, and we'll figure out a place for it. However, it is part of the philosophy of HACC1 that writers should want to cooperate with each other and work together to keep consistent. If you feel that this is too restrictive, simply write something and it will be placed elsewhere with no hurt feelings on the part of anybody. The HACCs (even HACC1) are not an attempt to force people to write a certain way and then to judge them if they do not comply. The HACCs are simply a voluntary listing giving people the flow of history and an overall view of the Ozzy situation. First and foremost, Oz books are meant to be enjoyed as fun stories. The HACCs are only an afterthought. Robin: Hmmmmm, I don't fully understand what you're saying. On one hand, you say that you don't like the idea of a "frozen in time" Universe, yet you don't want Ozma to grow up, since that would change things from the way they were in the FF. The problem is that even ONE change from the FF that is accepted into a given Universe would open up the door for all changes. I still assert that some changes are not acceptable even in HACC1, such as The Tin Woodman bcoming meat again or something else that changes the fundamental characters and situtations that were given in the FF. I guess I don't know what you mean by a logical outgrowth of their original characterizations as defined in the FF. Homer: The situation in _Forgotten Forest_ is a little different. Nelanthe was a wood-nymph and it was Zurline who exiled her, who may not be the same as Lurline. This thread has been discussed on the digest before. The conclusion that most people agreed with was that the word "fairy" has been used in the Oz books to represent a broad range of magical beings, each with their own levels of power, knowledge, responsibilities and restrictions. They almost certainly do not all follow the same rules and are also not likely all under the same authority. People such as Lurline, Zurline, Lulea and Ak are probably different rulers with different bands of magical beings under their command. Therefore, Zurline's rule and punishment of Nelanthe may not affect Ozma and Dan with regards to Lurline. Aaron and David: After "going to the videotape", which meant I went to my bookcase and looked up the info in _Pirates in Oz_, Cinderbutton the Witch is the daughter of Kadj the Conjurer. This means that Kadj has (or had) a wife or female companion who was not mentioned, and may or may not also be a magic worker. David "HUMAN -> HULAN": That is correct about Number Nine instead of Bucky. That episode always bothered me a little as to how someone who had only been there a year could have risen so quickly to the absolute summit of power in EC. On Fred Meyer: We haven't had an update on Fred's condition. Does anybody have any news? Danny: Baum's statements in _Emerald City_ seems to bear your theory out, what with the holding bins that contain everything people need and are filled by the people with whatever surplus they produce and then if they get too low, they are magically filled again. By the Thompson Oz, though, this seems to have faded away, and what we have apparantly is a system where each community produces something valuable and trades the surplus for other items produced by other communities. Money itself may be used to fill in the gaps when the numbers don't jibe with perfect accuracy. By the way, I prefer my Ozade shaken, not stirred. Well, what the President MEANT to say was... Let me rephrase my "HACC1 test" statement for Dave's book. I said that the marriage should not put too much of a constraint of future authors. I should have said that the marriage should be done in such a way that an author not mentioning it would not seem unusual, or that Dan's absence would not ruin the continuity of HACC1. Dave has already mentioned that he is willing to give permission (if people ask nicely) to mention Dan in passing, as long as they do not ruin the marriage/coutship, kill Dan off or use him in a story. I want a Dan with a slow hand (I couldn't resist, Dave!) I stand by my belief that the Ozma/Dan thing is not sacrilige unless Ozma's character changes fundamentally from what we have seen in the FF. As long as the relationship is handled tastefully and Ozma remains the sweet caring individual we know, it will be a good addition to Oz. Of course, Dave could be putting up a smokescreen and Dan will be some total jerk who ruins Ozma, but we'll have to wait for the book itself to come out and answer these questions once and for all. On The HACCs: I should be able to put these up tomorrow sometime. I'll send a message to the digest when they're there. Here is a brief outline of how I split them up. The FF in its entirety in present in HACCs 1, 2 and 4. The FF in the form of the Baum 14 is in HACC 3. The FF in the form of the Baum/Thompson/Neill 36 is in HACC 5. The five books published by IWOC are in HACCs 1 and 2. I did not put the IWOC 5 in HACC 4, since I do not know if the Adelmans want them in there or not. HACC1: Most books remained here. HACC2: Besides the FF and the IWOC 5, the only other book in here so far is _Queen Ann_ By Gjovaag and Carlson. THe reason being that Eric has repeatedly said that he is not bound by other non-FF authors and he does not feel that other non-FF authors should be bound by him. This philosophy is reflected in HACC2. HACC3: To honor the Baum purists, the Baumian Steady-State Universe contains all other Ozzsy writing by Baum and his descendants. HACC4: Since the Adelmans have not actually published anything yet, this is a Universe-in-waiting. Of course, if the Adelmans privately mail me a list of titles and dates of ocurrence, I could put them in. However, since Aaron has expressed an admiration of _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, I put that one in here as well as in HACC2. Note that this book is the only non-FF, non-IWOC-5 book that is in more than one Universe. This can change, of course, although IMHO each book will probably fit in only one. I can't see a book going in HACC3 and HACC5, for example. That's just a little TOO weird. HACC5: All published Laumers are in here. THe unpublished ones, that he never wrote, are not. Since I do not want to be the dictator of Oz, once all the HACCs are up, I would appreciate any advice, suggestions, etc. I want this to be something that everyone contributes to, I'm just the grunt worker here... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 21:24:26 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: HACC47 and Ozma's sister Tyler Jones writes: > On HACC 47 million and counting...: Perhaps you could give these HACCs symbolic names. Right now if you told me you had put a book in HACC3 I wouldn't have the slightest idea which HACC you were talking about. But if you said you put it in the Laumer-HACC, then it would be immediately obvious which HACC you meant. Dave Hardenbrook writes: > Maybe Ozma has a twin sister that Dan could have, Now *that* Idea has potential. Dan spots an unconscious girl in a cavern, surrounded by dangers. With great courage, perspicacity, and fortitude he manages to rescue her, only to discover to his amazement that she is none other than Princess Ozma of Oz! She wakes up, but remembers nothing. Dan tells her who she is, and starts to escort her to the Emerald City. This journey proves unexpectedly difficult, and during the many adventures, the princess (who is in a similar state as Marygolden was) relies heavily upon Dan. A romance blossoms, with the result that she agrees to marry him. And thus it is that Lurline reads in her magic record book -- which records the doings of all her subjects wherever they may be -- that Princess Ozma has agreed to marry a mortal! This sort of thing is not to be tolerated, so Lurline immediately goes to the Emerald City to deal harshly with the matter. Ozma is in real trouble, and she has no idea why. But just in the nick of time, Dan arrives in the Emerald City with *gasp* another Ozma! Confusion reigns, but eventually it turns out that thousands of years ago Lurline had caught Ozma's twin sister making eyes at a knook, and as punishment Lurline condemned her to lie in that cavern, and to fall in love with any mortal man who could manage to rescue her. A very red faced Lurline stiffly gives her blessings and leaves. Then there is an elaborate wedding with Ozma herself performing the ceremony, after which Dan and Ozma's sister embark on their honeymoon. Dave, your twin sister idea is great. Go for it! :-) :-) :-) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 00:58:05 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Catching Up on Ozzy Digests Hi everyone! I'm back from my week-and-a-half trip and I've just downloaded all the Ozzy Digests, and if I don't answer them tonight I doubt I ever will! So.... Tyler Jones wrote: <> Maybe they somehow made Henry and Em forget? Or they thought it was a dream? For that matter, maybe the title "The Third Book of Oz" (which was correctly observed to be some recent editor's, not Baum's) meant it was the third book involving Dorothy with Oz characters. <> Although I've mentioned before that I don't have access to Web Pages, many thanks to you and everyone else who let me know. I'll order it shortly, though I think I'll review all the Oz books I picked up at Books of Wonder on my trip first! <> That reminds me--didn't I hear someone mention Laumer's using at least one character created by an FF author after those three--Cosgrove/Payes' Percy The Rat? Albeit only to kill him off? Or was I thinking of someone else entirely? <> Not necessarily. The (often galling but perversely fascinating) comics prozine with the ironically Ozzy name WIZARD recently ran a list of values that autographs by comic book creators would add to books they signed. Most were small, but a few, by living but reclusive creators like Steve Ditko and Jerry Siegel (who's since died, but was living when the list was compiled) allegedly increased a value by as much as $100. (Comic fandom investment is weird anyway: some dealers have hyped "signed, numbered comics" at inflated prices, even when signed by artists in their 20's and in good health.) <> Yes, but how successful an attempt was it? Any more so than "Emerald City," _Baum's_ own attempt to end the Oz series? <> Besides which, the last individual who could do so would be the Grinch. Blogo may, as noted, be rather short, but the Grinch is downright microscopic, living as he does just north of and in the same proportion as Who-ville, a town on a microscopic world the size of a dust speck. (As revealed in Dr. Seuss' first book about it, HORTON HEARS A WHO...) <<999 times out of 1000, the good guys win and almost NEVER is a major good character killed off. It has happened only once in Star Trek, for example...>> I can think of at least three examples: Captain Kirk in "Generations," Tasha Yar in the first season of "Star Trek: The Next Generation," and Mr. Spock in "The Wrath of Khan." Granted, Spock was brought back, but (at least to date) the other two weren't. Steven Teller wrote: <> I remember one that revealed he was the result of a fairy to cross a bear with a beehive (!), but no longer have the issue. Was that Laumer's? And has anyone yet explained what role the enigmatic Krizzle-Kroo played in the Woozy's life? Nathan Faut wrote: <> Heinlein's NUMBER OF THE BEAST notwithstanding, there's no reason to assume Oz doesn't have sex and birth and even occasional death. All are included in the FF (remember Princess Pajonia of Pumperdink, not to mention Billina's chicks?). <> I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you're right. She _is_ a bit of a spoiled brat--but at least she's a brat with a genuine sense of justice. Barry Adelman wrote: <> And, in THE SPECKLED ROSE OF OZ, Donald Abbott brought in Sir Wylie Gyle! Who's next, Dinah the chef from THE WOGGLE-BUG? John N. White wrote: <> Well, she had at least one more birthday party in THE MAGIC OF OZ...and she often invited people from other countries on individual occasions. <> So do I--and perhaps, as I mentioned a while back, to restore the Nomes that Dorothy had changed into eggs in OZMA after the party was safely out of reach. (And what about the Scoodlers in ROAD? Apparently, if we can believe Neill in SCALAWAGONS, they got their heads back somehow. This sort of genocide was genuinely foreign to Baum: when Woot proposed puncturing all the Loons in TIN WOODMAN he was deterred by the Woodman and the Scarecrow.) Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <> Well, as I've mentioned, they were the first two Oz books I'd read! That might explain Ozma's role, but how to explain Dorothy's and the Wizard's return to Oz and the fact that the latter was no longer a humbug? Michael Turniansky wrote: <> Presumably the books gave the "facts" and the musicals took a few liberties...just as stage musicals actually based on historical people and/or events (e.g., "The King and I, " "Annie Get Your Gun," and "1776") did. Whew! Time I got to bed! More later... Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 13, 1996 (ADDENDUM) *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 22:51:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-12-96 For all those who may have known her, I must sadly report that Myra Blossom died last Friday. Her funeral will be this Tuesday. Myra and Henry Blossom used to go to OzCons. Many of us remember them with great affection. Hank is holding his own. It's remarkable that with a few keytaps, I can let dozens of people know this within a matter of hours because of computers and Dave. Thanks, Dave. It really matters, having this means of communication. --Robin ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 14, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 06:38:01 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-12-96 << From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-96 Good news! The Sonics won last night, going up on Houston 3-0 in their best-of-seven playoff series. Bad news! The game was shown on our local CBS affiliate, meaning no showing of "The Wizard of Oz" in the Emerald City! I REALLY hope all that Angela Lansbury stuff at the end wasn't new, because I had no way to tape it... >> Youch! Sorry to hear that! As I have the 50th Anniversary edition (with the "lost footage" and the original sepia toned Kansas scenes to watch sans commercials afterwards), I kinda stuck to my Friday night "X-Files" fix. I did jump in during commercials. I neglected to tape the Afterward stuff Angela Lansbury did; sorry. Otherwise, I would certainly be able to provide a copy for you. ==================== << From: Tyler Jones ....Rhea Pearlman as Mombi? That was absolutely beautiful! We'd have to find a way to put John Ratzenberger in there somehow and let her go to town! >> He *would* make a great Cowardly Lion voice over (James Earl Jones would be too majestic).... -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!' ....till you can find a rock." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 14:56:35 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 Hi Digest! Despite my latest comment about the HACC, I do have one question: doesn't Volkov get an HACC of his own? Patrick Maund - thank you for the information about the Hippopotamus. It left me baffled and fascinated. Are Woozys related to Hippopotami? Stephen Teller and Peter Glassman - perhaps "Books of Wonder" could add a single, seperate sheet to editions of "Patchwork Girl", functioning as a kind of "errata", in which the changes to the original text would be mentioned, or even defended, and the use of the word "facsimile" would likewise be accounted for? This sheet would be intended for adults interested in the book for its collector's value, and could be removed and ignored by anyone (adult or child) reading the book for pleasure only. That way SJT's call for "truth in advertising" would be appeased, with minimal expense to "Books of Wonder" and no tampering with the actual printed volumes. Just a thought. Dick Morrisey - I had a theory about "Krizzle-Kroo" which gave me the story idea for my story "The Woozy's Tail", which was published in the 1991 "Oziana". However, I'm not even going to give this away with a spoiler alert, because it really is the point of the whole story. You'll just have to order it from the club (one or two dollars) and read it for yourself. :-) Bye! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 08:50:17 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 Has anyone seen TWISTER yet? It's great fun! Oz fans should enjoy cameos by both Judy Garland, and Dorothy. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Wicked Witch of the West > > Wait a minute...If she's "Mrs. West", who married her? I may have had > Mombi had children, but who would be sick enough to have children with > Bastinda? (: Have you read "Wicked" yet? Nothing stated out-and-out, but there are some interesting implications... > From: ZMaund@aol.com > Subject: Fact > > Only on the end of its tail does a hippopotamus have any hair. Thank you for today's contribution, Sir Real. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > HACC2: Besides the FF and the IWOC 5, the only other book in here so far is > _Queen Ann_ By Gjovaag and Carlson. THe reason being that Eric has > repeatedly said that he is not bound by other non-FF authors and he does not > feel that other non-FF authors should be bound by him. This philosophy is > reflected in HACC2. (/me rolls eyes) What have Karyl and I done to deserve this, huh? Not that it matters to me, but is "Queen Ann" also in HACC1? And could you refresh my memory as to which HACC HACC2 is anyway? (Little Angel-Eric who just appeared on my shoulder): There, there, Eric, you don't want to get involved in this. It will only make you cranky and confused. (Little Devil-Eric who just appeared on my other shoulder): Yeah, keep it up, argue about the HACCs to death, make everyone mad at you! Er, Tyler, on the other hand, why don't you just go ahead and do what you want and not announce it here? > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: Catching Up on Ozzy Digests > [on the deaths of "Star Trek" characters:] > I can think of at least three examples: Captain Kirk in "Generations," > Tasha Yar in the first season of "Star Trek: The Next Generation," and Mr. > Spock in "The Wrath of Khan." Granted, Spock was brought back, but (at least > to date) the other two weren't. Have you read William Shatner's new novel "The Return" yet? Because I refuse to, since he RESURRECTS CAPTAIN KIRK!!! AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! (And it's the Borg who do it, no less!) (BTW, before someone complains, no, I did NOT include spoiler warnings, since I DON'T want people to read this book...) By the time many of you read this, the new "Doctor Who" movie will be on Fox TONIGHT! If you are a sci-fi fan, please watch it, then write a letter to Fox with your opinions, especially if you liked it. And if you have a Neilsen box, I will pay you to watch it... I'm curious, is Gili the only subscriber to this list from outside of the United States? --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:39:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: 007 in Oz 1) Tyler wrote: >By the way, I prefer my Ozade shaken, not stirred. Which reminds me of my favorite quote from Grampa in Oz: "My name is Bond, Vaga Bond." (: 2) Rich, on Laumer killing off Percy: If I could get away with it, I'd kill off Till Orangespeigel myself. Percy is cool; Till is a jerk who gets away with murder. Also: Read The Woozy of Oz when it comes out. The Woozy according to my brother and me is in no way related to a bear or a beehive, but (and I've leaked this before, so there's no harm in saying it again) to the even more enigmatic Hiergargo the Magician. As for the meaning of the term "krizzle-kroo", I haven't leaked that yet, so you'll just have to read the book and find out for yourself. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 12:03:26 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 To: DAVEH47@delphi.com Message-id: <960513120326_490025966@emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Homer: >Just an idea, but maybe it would be a better idea to have a character of >lesser importence marry first. Then when you see how people react to it, >you will know if marrying a REALLY important person such as Ozma >would be a good idea. Gilbert Sprague did marry off Scraps and the Scarecrow in THE PATCHWORK BRIDE OF OZ, and nobody seems to have objected. They're about as important characters in Oz as anyone but Ozma, Glinda, Dorothy, and the Wizard. (And probably have more ink in the FF than even Ozma or Glinda.) Tyler: Number Nine became the Wizard's assistant in WONDER CITY, so it's not unreasonable that he'd be involved in a conference with Ozma and the Wizard over the administration of Oz. Of course, at the end of GLASS CAT I have the Wizard take Barry on as a new assistant. In the original draft, when I thought (erroneously) that the Neill books had gone into PD because he'd been dead over 50 years, I had Number Nine involved as well, and Barry a Second Assistant. But as it is, I postulate (without saying so explicitly) that sometime in the 40+ years between LUCKY BUCKY and GLASS CAT, Number Nine and Jenny Jump decided to let themselves grow up some more, get married, and move to the countryside, so that the Wiz needed a new assistant by the time Barry got there. Thus, no conflict with the FF... Rich: Obviously Laumer's attempt to end the Oz series was no more successful than Baum's, since Oz stories continue to be written. Less so, really; if Baum hadn't needed the money then he really -could- have ended the series at any time (at least until WIZARD went PD), but all Laumer could ever do was end his own writing about Oz. I think Dorothy is considerably more aggressive in Baum than in Thompson or the later writers. (Neill didn't use her much, but the others all had her as an important character in at least one book.) Even in Baum she's strongest in the earlier books. All: I'll be gone for the next four days - consulting job on Long Island. Maybe I'll be able to catch up on Saturday... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 12:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Krizzle-Kroo Rich, as a matter of fact Aaron and I, in _The Woozy of Oz_, have figured out what the word 'krizzle-kroo' means and why it gets the Woozy so angry. The explanation the Woozy gave for his existence does not jibe with those that Laumer supposedly gave based on what has been put in the Digest (ILLable sources please!), but it could be argued in that case that the Woozy was lying, as I suspect to be the truth. I'm not going to blab it here, but if you want to find out the answers to these mysteries, send Aaron a message and he will send you a copy of the latest draft of _The Woozy of Oz_. Any useful critiquing would be helpful. Rich again, I haven't read the (supposedly bad) _Wogglebug Book_, so I have no basis upon which to appropriate Dinah. (Then again, I don't have much for Danx and Trixie either. It's probably no surprise that what we've written using Trixie probably bears little resemblance to the play...) I've tried to keep the appropriations making sense (e.g., need a Munchkin character -> Danx). Don't worry, there will be no 99 public-domain appropriated baddies. What's this about Laumer killing off Percy? Percy is cool! He was the best character in _The Hidden Valley of Oz_! He can't die! Percy: You tell 'em, kiddo! Would someone who's read _The Fire God of the Marrans_ tell me if the religion was around before Urfin Dzhjus came around or did he start it? Aaron has this strange idea of appropriating it for the Hammerheads and I would like to know what's already been written before appropriating. Hammerheads: O Hail, Mighty Gjovaag! Eric: I finished reading _Queen Ann in Oz_ and found it pretty good, though I found what the knook said about trees (about their relationship to oxygen and carbon dioxide) somewhat out of place. I already hypothesized that books which fall into the Valley of Lost Things in Merryland would form the basis of trade, but I never figured a biology text would get that far. If Imagination has Gnomes, what about the other three kinds of elementals (salamanders, sylphs, and naiads, if I remember correctly)? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:12:28 -0800 From: Bob Shepherd Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 What a perfectly Ozzy weekend we just had! Friday night, of course, was the showing of _The Wizard of Oz_ on CBS. A tradition we have had at our house on "Oz Night" for the past four years is that I take my three kids to the store and let them buy all the junk food they can eat. We then go home, pull out the hide-a-bed, and we all watch the movie together. My daughter, Valerie, gets out her Oz dolls and they watch the movie with us. We have the movie on video tape, of course, but nothing quite matches the fun of that special night the movie is broadcast. The additional film footage and memories that were shown at the end of the movie were a wonderful bonus this year! Saturday I took Valerie to a local production of "Ozma of Oz". It was just a small, low budget play aimed towards the kids, but it was terrific nonetheless. The actors did a wonderful job of capturing the Oz magic, and the kids (and parents) enjoyed it immensely. L. Frank Baum would have enjoyed a few of the extra puns the production crew threw in. In the scene where Dorothy, the Scarecrow and Ozma and trying to get past the Pounder, they had an actor dressed as a Pounder and he had a kid's plastic hammer, which he would raise and lower, narrowly missing each character as they rushed past. It was the kind of hammer that squeeks whenever it strikes something. The Scarecrow was the last to get past the Pounder. As he was going by, he stopped to pick some- thing up. As he did, he said, "Hey look, it's a quarter, Pounder!" The Pounder, looking disgusted, tapped the Scarecrow on the rear and made the hammer squeek. The Scarecrow exclaimed, "That was a Whopper!" If only every weekend could be so Ozzy........ ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:13:29 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest HACC stuff On HACC theory-- With all this discussion on multiple universes, let me share my personal vision of the mulitple Oz stories. When the Wizard entered Oz and Dorothy and her group liberated Oz from the threats of Wicked Witches (all the events in WIZARD) they became celebrities. With Ozma on the throne, her fame reached throughout "Baumgea." In time, these people and other unique individuals of the Palace became legends. As their stories passed around, their legends grew. By the time these stories reached OUR world, there could be varying degrees of truth in each facet of each story. Some legends are entirely fanciful, some are the closest to truth that we can get. Baum knew the more truthful ones, getting his stories directly from Dorothy. Subsequent authors may have gotten the more inflated versions of Oz heroes' adventures. It is up to us individually to decide how "truthfully" we want to take each story. (This theory comes from Weis and Hickman's _Dragons of the Summer Flame_, since these authors allowed others to write orginal stories in a universe they created but didn't return to for many years. In the meantime, many contradictory and heretical stories developed.) Enjoying the Oz legends, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:01:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 Fred Meyer: He's going to leave the rehab. unit this week, we think. It's still up in the air where he'll go next. He needs more work with his walker, etc. He is definite about not going to any conventions this summer. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest On the HACCs: I will admit that my original purpose in creating the HACC was to create one unified version of history that all Oz books more or lessa agreed with. It was never my intention to force my own personal view of Oz on others, nor did I ever seek to force others to write Oz books my way. I had in mind a group effort, where all of us would provide input, advice and ideas. However, it is not working. The misunderstandings, misrepresentations and divisiveness are snowballing. I never wanted that, so I have come to a decision. The HACC (there will only be one) will be nothing more than a simple list of all Oz books that are accurate to the FF. Dates will be assigned based on that book relates to the FF and to other books if and only if they relate. The HACC will not pass judgement nor will there be any requirement to be on the HACC whatsoever, apart from accuracy to the FF. People will write Oz books, and use as much or as little consistency with non-FF books as they choose. Regardless of how much (if any), all books are welcome on the HACC, as long as they are true to the spirit of the FF. However, I still believe that scholarly research, consistency and continuity are worthwhile goals, even though they cannot be achieved on an overall basis. To that end, I still intend to do HACC analysis and try to determine a best approximation and if anybody wants to help out or get advice, then I am available as always. I believe that if it is wrong to force someone into consistency, then it is also wrong to force them NOT to be consistent. Eric and Stephen: The reason I was rehashing the entire arguement was that Stephen had obviously not heard it before, and I was attempting to bring him up to speed. Other topics: Speaking of killing off characters, there was an article about that in USA TODAY. The article argued that doing this once in a while served to shake things up and keep the show fresh. I still would not advocate killing Ozma, Dorothy, etc. While it would change things, it's a little un-ozzy. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Dave - Just to clarify. I think it is fine if you write a book about Ozma and Dan. I will probably buy it and read it. BUT, I am going to go on and continue to dislike the idea. Why didn't you feel bad about what I did to Dan when I was playing around with your scenario? AND, if you are going to put out controversial ideas, wouldn't you be disappointed if everyone just ignored them. (Back to your b-ball game Eric - Dave doesn't need any defending. After all he is the god of the digest and can "kill" any of us at any time! :)) Homer >True, I doubt Lurline would be THAT mean and vengeful, but it's happened before. In Eric Shanower's "The Forgotten Forest of Oz", Nelanthe was a fairy who lived in the forest of Burzee. She got exiled and had her immortality taken away for kissing a mortal man. And if that's so bad, then disobeying Lurline MUST be pretty horrible. See! At least Dan will be able to look at his beloved from inside his glass coating for eternity! :) Could we give Peter Glassman a bit more respect. All you have to do is look at an issue of the Oz Collector to know how much we have to thank him for. Has anyone else noted that there are "crabby" days on the Digest? Seems like they come on Mondays. Must be a result of dealing with all that free time on weekends. :) :) Regards, Mr. HACC1 (or maybe 3) Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 18:29:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 Dave and Ozzy Digest readers: I had a good chat with Fred Meyer a weekend ago. He says the progress is extremely slow. He mentioned having had a leg-brace fitted to assist him in standing for his exercises. He remains widely interested in affairs of the Oz Club and I know he likes the messages that find their way to him. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:08:56 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: red shoes Can the Ozzy Digest help? --- On Thu, 25 Apr 96 03:53:17 UT Peter and Susan Horn wrote: hello, this is Susan Horn at Peter_Horn_Jr@msn.com, looking for a good rubber stamp of Dorothy's ruby slippers. One that really looks like them. Do you have such a thing? Can you send me the email address or other info on anyone you know of who might? A thousand thank yous for your help. -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 5/13/96 Time: 8:08:56 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 23:20:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Till Orangespiegel's Ancestry Dave, The other day I found this text on the Net under "fairy tales" (forgot to record the URL; sorry) about a character called Til Ulenspighel, who is a megajerk who wins in the end of the story. Knowing that Laumer's character Till Orangespiegel's family was originally named Ulenspiegel, I was wondering if there was any connection, considering also that Orangspiegel is also a megajerk who gets away with murder. Enclosed below is the full text; if you feel it is too long, feel free to not include it in the Digest. I'm quite willing to manually E-mail it to interested parties. [I decided not to include it in the Digest, but E-mail Aaron if you want a copy. -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 12:25:15 -0700 From: steller Subject: Ozzy things Gili: I will never call you by that other name again (unless you request it, of course), I have always thought of you as Gili and was only copying your address. David Hulan: Thanks for your defense of my review. Eric: The Angela Lansbury stuff was not new. All that was new was 10-15 second bits from CBS *stars* saying what they liked about the movie. Tyler (and Aaron): People can call Baum's unnamed characters whatever they wish *if such designations are not considered historically accurate and so binding on later serious writers.* I spoke to Fred Meyer Saturday and he sounds more like *the old Fred* than he had for months. He has had two serious operations on his back. He will be in the hospital at Madison WI for several more weeks, and does not expect to be able to attend any conventions this year. He does hope to be back in operation and to resume, at least some, of his responsibilities soon. Rich M. *****************RAGGEDYS SPOILER**************** It was Ray Powell, in the unpublished (and unpublishable for copyright reasons) _The Raggedys in Oz_ who killed off Percy, although not totally. Ray hated the rat. *************END OF SPOILER********************** SJT ====================================================================== Date: Monday 13-May-96 20:28:22 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ERIC: >I'm curious, is Gili the only subscriber to this list from outside of the >United States? Yes (at least no one else with a foreign country suffex in their address). We had a member from Scotland for a while, but she unsubscribed. BARRY: >What's this about Laumer killing off Percy? I think this is most unlikely, since, as Tyler has observed, Laumer has never even READ _Hidden Valley_ (or _Merry Go Round_, or the Snow 2)! Percy: The reports of my death are greatly exagerated! :) Oh, and about that little comment Greene and Martin make about me in the _Oz Scrapbook_: :) :) :) OZMA AND DAN -- FINAL (YES, *FINAL*!) THOUGHTS: The debate about whether Ozma should have a love interest has really become bitter, and I now fear that it is poisoning other aspects of our Ozian discussions. I want to keep the Digest as friendly and hospitable as possible, so for that reason, "I hereby decree that until what time...*IF* any" that my Ozma-Dan romance is published, I will not permit it as an issue on the Digest...I will not bore everyone to tears continuing to defend the story, and I will not post any further messages that try to pre-judge my efforts... (I may even remove the section I devote to it from my FAQ)... I will write the story, hopefully get it published, let people read it, and THEN we can discuss it (in a friendly atmosphere, I hope!) :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 15, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:40:44 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: HACC's "To HACC, or not to HACC, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of Ozzy Digest subscribers, Or to take arms against that sea of critics, And by opposing enrage them. To cry; to sleep; Oh, to just get a good night's sleep and forget this Entire HACC business!!" Dick (with deep apologies to the Bard) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:07:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Western Witch of Oz 1) Eric, I have read Wicked, and while Elphaba may be a semi-decent person, Bastinda under Baum, Abbott, one of the Random Housie authors, and even Volkov isn't. Gingemma may have a few redeeming qualities, but so far I haven't heard a single nice thing about Bastinda other than the fact that she died. 2) David, Jenny Jump and Number Nine getting married seems quite reasonable, though considering their very shaky start, I wonder if a repeat of Jinjur's situation might occur... 3) Barry, the Woozy is incapable of lying, being a square beast. The creature that was Laumer's informant was not the Woozy at all, but a Boxer. The Boxers have been insanely jealous of the Woozy, seeing that the Woozy appears in three FF books, two non-FF books (one of which is titled The Woozy of Oz), and one heretical book, while they only appear in two FF books and get a mere mention in on non-FF book. Therefore, feeling that the Woozy is hogging the spotlight reserved for square beings, they have been telling Laumer malicious lies about the Woozy in order to make themselves look better and hence increase their popularity. Also, I am not sending out any more copies of The Woozy of Oz, having enough reviewers already. Sorry, folks. 4) Danny, you have basically reiterated my informant theory. 5) Tyler, killing off a character is a great idea. I say we start with Till Orangespiegel and then put Tedrow's characters out of our misery... 6) Stephen, it's not unusual in some cultures for people to have more than one name, so I don't particularly mind if certain Ozites end up with more than one name. Though if people from America did, THEN there's something wrong. Out of curiousity, has anyone besides Eric and his coauthor named the Shaggy Man and anyone else besides my brother and I the Shaggy Man's brother? Also: How does one partially kill off a character? 7) On Woozy and hippopotamuses: I wasn't aware that Hiergargo created the hippopotamus as well... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:17:58 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-14-96 HEY EVERYBODY - IT'S MAY 15! Happy Birthday, Baum and Oz! As far as I remember, Til Ulanspeigel is a very well known character i German folktales, he's a little like the Jewish "Hershale" who turns up in so many jokes and stories. I thought this was common knowledge... I'm sure this can be looked up, and I may be wrong. I also have some vague memory which leads me to believe that Erich Kastner wrote a book about Til Ulanspiegel. But I may be confusing this with the book he wrote about the Baron Munchousen, which was also based on German folktales. Bye! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 13:14:12 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: HACCs Tyler, bravo! The multiplicity of historical chains is at an end! Strasheela the Wise: Now the concentration can be on alternate universes, such as that with the Magic Land, which in some respects is not as good as Oz's, but at least we have rockets and eliminated cannibalism. For those who are interested, the URL for the story about Orangespiegel's ancestor is gopher://ftp.std.com/00/obi/book/Fairy.Tales/Grimm/til.ulenspighel.txt. Despite the URL, this is not one of Grimm's Fairy Tales (I double-checked my hard copy.) However, interestingly, there is a story in Grimm about someone named Dr. Knowitall! Sharts: Ha ha, Eydoant Nowitall, you will notinterfere with my rulings on faculty council or I will make pubic this story. Nowitall: I dare you to find the spelling book. Percy: David Hulan: I thought Number Nine was Jenny's assistant, not the Wizard's. Eric, thanks for the reminder about Dr. Who. Why am I now imagining _The Daleks in Oz_? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:32:48 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-09-96 Ozzy reference: In the March 1995 (yes, '95! I'm way behind, wanta make something of it?) issue of Games magazine, this Cryptic Crossword clue: "Ultraviolet protection for a munchkin? (6)" Leads to the answer OZONE (Oz one) David Hulan: > I doubt if the Yellow Brick Road is visible from orbit - at least, not from a > very high orbit. It's not the Great Wall of China, after all; as described, > it's probably no wider than the average street in the EC, and almost > certainly narrower than the main boulevards. I know. I was being facetious. The Great Wall is not visible from orbit, either. That's a common myth. It is _also_ no wider than a street. > It seems unlikely that Blogo the Rare Beast has any connection at all with > Dr. Seuss's Roast Beast. Someone's speculation that Blogo was the result of a > mating between a turkey and a rubber glove is not far off the mark... > I was wondering, if the two mated, would they produce the Medium Rare Beast? :-) SJT: > > MY-k'l: By your analogy, should we refer to Munchen (with an umlaut) in > Deutchland? I'm just asking. > Yes, IMHO, if we can manage it. After all, many of our pronounciations have changed, to reflect native pronounciations. Most English names of places reflect British colonialism and the attitude of not bothering to attempt to attempt the native pronounciation. After all, most people in this country now say Beijing (bay-zhing) for the capital of China (yes, I know its native name is really something like Shang-guo, but there you go, some things haven't changed yet), not Peking, Pekin, or Peipin of earlier times. Similarly, when's the last time you heard Italy's Livorno referred to as Leghorn, or Sri Lanka as Ceylon, etc.? (And even there, it's only approximate, as the first consonant should be pronounced with the tongue flattened and touching the palate.) Oh, no! Not the Oz movie casting again. The last time I tried to send this, I apparently put Nate's Oz list out of existence. :-) I can't remember all the folks my wife and I came up with, but it was something like: Wizard: Wilford Brimley Scarecrow: Brent Spiner Cowardly Lion: Paul Reiser Dorothy: WWW: Roseanne (I forget the rest) But I absolutely love Danny DeVito as Gnome King. Inspired! BTW, to all: I know I'm gonna get flamed for not knowing this, but who exactly _is_ the ailing Fred Meyer? Eric: > > How does this square with the theory that Oz is a real place that > > Baum had informers about? Why would the story change? > > That is a theory that I do not necessarily hold. Nor do I, Eric. I was merely throwing the question out for those who _do_. For the moment, I'll accept Rich's answer (poetic license). David Hulan: > I agree that one should pronounce a name the way the namebearer prefers >... But I have no clue as to how Pluto's moon wants its name pronounced. That's why I said name-bearer/bestower. After all, my kids certainly had no say in the way we chose to pronounce their name. They accept it as theirs because that's the way they've always heard it. Aaron: > 3) Dave, I am under the impression that ruling Oz takes up significantly > more than an hour or two of Ozma's time each day. I remember from some > book (don't remember which off the top of my head, but I think it was in > the Baum 14) that Ozma spent all moring in affairs of state. Then again, > with the passage of time and the development of new situations, it could > come to take more or less time. Good thing she doesn't read the Ozzy Digest as well. It could well take away from her time doing important things, like having parties for her friends :-) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:14:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy digest Gili: Yes. Technically Volkov does have a HACC, but it is not called a HACC. I reserve that phrase for books that are accurate to all or part of the FF. The important thing to remember is that Volkovs land of Goodvinia is not Oz. Clearly, it is related to Oz and has some similarities, but it is not the land that we know from Baum's books. Therefore, his stories are inaccurate to the FF, but they are closely related. Volkovs books go into one of Aarons HI/RCC Universes. I have nothing but the highest respect for Books of Wonder and Peter Glassman. I am very grateful for his company producing new Oz stories as well as reprints of stories form the past. While I may not agree with the big decision (everybody knows what it was, so I won't say it), BOW has done a great deal to keep the spirit of Oz alive. Thank you, Peter. Eric: What have you done to deserve this? Nothing. You unwittingly fell into the trap of assuming that HACC1 is somehow better or superior to HACC's 2 and 3. It is simply a matter of style and no HACC was more official than the other. I put your book in HACC2 to honor your statements that the FF was the only "official" standard of Oz. Of course, since I dumped all that and now have only one HACC which does not require accuracy to anything but the FF, it no longer matters. Also, if I did what I wanted and told no one, how would people find out? Part of the purpose of this digest is to exchange info and ideas. The only way to do that is tell people what we're doing. Eric again: Thanks for the update about the ressurection of Kirk. Much as I admire old Jim, I think I'll pass. Danny: What you say is very close to the "informant theory" developed on this digest. That is, that authors get their info from Oz second or third hand. All kinds of distortions creep in, modified by the emotions of the people involved. By the time it gets published, there may be many discrepancies with books in and out of the FF. Bear: I believe you would have been a HACC 2 supporter. This one was true to the letter and spirit of the FF. That is, the FF defined everything about Oz and there could be no major changes from it. All HACCs but the original are gone, now, and that HACC passes no judgement as far as accuracy to non-FF books. Stephen: Obviously, nobody can give an official name to an unnamed Baum character. However, I merely suggested that people use the names that have already been invented so that we all know who we're talking about. If not, we can assume that these people have and use many different names to help confuse the people they were ruling at the time. Naturally, one person's name is not binding on another author. Dave: I won't mention the (thing), but when do you expect your book to be finished and/or published? --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:45:23 -0700 From: steller Subject: various Rich M.: *****SPOILER FOR THE WOOZY'S TRICKY BEGINNING******* Dementia, a member of Lurline's band, found a practical solution to the riddle: "What do you get when you cross a teddy bear with a [blue Munchkin] beehive?" The result was the Woozy. P.S. Never discard an OZIANA, it may be valuable someday! Some early ones have fetched a pretty penny in auctions. *****************END OF SPOILER*************** Tyler: As I see it all that is required for a book to be included in the HACC is faithfulness to the FF; there is no necessity for any two books on the HACC to be consistant with one another. In my terms unless a book directly contradicts the FF on a major point (after all there are contrdictions in the FF) it would not be considered *heretical.* Some works are highly heretical, such as _Was_, _Barnstormer_, and _Dorothy-Return to OZ_; others are only mildly heretical such as the four Random House Books, which seem to take place between _Ozma_ and _Emerald City_. Aaron: Til Eulenspiegel (Owlglass) is a character out of late Medieval and Renaissance German folklore. He is a trickster character who always manages to thumb his nose at authority. Only people who do not like to see authority figures fooled would consider him a *megajerk*. Richard Strauss wrote a Tone Poem about him. He is an equivelent of Br'er Rabbit, or Coyote. There is even an equivalent character in Jewish folklore; his name is Hershel Ost (?) (unfortunately my _Treasury of Jewish Folklore_ is at home. All: Oz is for fun. The Land of Oz is a Land of Love. Let us never sink into bitterness or recriminations. Let us discuss topics with respect and frienship. Steve Teller ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 23:32:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Volkovian chronology My brother and I just had a discussion over when Volkov's books should be dated in the HI/RCC. If we assume dates should be parallel those of the HACC, The Wizard of the Emerald City should be in 1899. However, Ellie and her parents are noted as originally living in a van, the wheels of which have been removed, which seems a bit strange for 1899 to me, which inclines me to place it in 1937. Does anyone else out there have any relevant information? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 15-May-96 00:32:46 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things GILI: I'll just second your birthday wishes (though by the time you read this they'll be a day late): Happy Birthday Mr. Baum! :) MIKE T.: >Good thing [Ozma] doesn't read the Ozzy Digest as well. How do you *KNOW* she doesn't? :) :) :) S. TELLER: >The Land of Oz is a Land of Love. Let us never >sink into bitterness or recriminations. Let us discuss topics with >respect and frienship. Amen! :) TYLER: >I won't mention the (thing), but when do you expect your book to be finished >and/or published? Now that I've stopped discussing it, it won't be long! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 16, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:49:01 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Crabs in Oz Spurned on by Laumer's borrowing of Til Ulenspighel (which, sorry to say, Gili, is not common knowledge in the US, at least around here), I am wondering if a case could be made for my identification of Oz's Dr. Nowitall with his namesake in Grimm. The FF, at least as far as I've read, doesn't give a lot of details on him. Do any non-FF books give any personal details which may sway the case in one direction or the other? Given this kind of folkloric borrowing, would anyone have any objections to a few more? I have an idea for incorporating a hag-riding incident in which-- Kabumpo: Don't give away the plot! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:49:56 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-15-96 Hi Digest! Whaddya know, turns out, thanks to Steve Teller, that what I thought I remembered knowing about Til Whatshisnamespeigel is true. You even mentioned Herschale (a.k.a. Herschel Ost) ! Mike - then again, you still say Germany, Italy, Japan, Egypt, Moscow, Paris, Jerusalem ... Not Deutschland, Italia, (Nippon?), (El-Mitsr?), Moskva, Pareee, Yerushalayim.... Fred Meyer has been the secretary of the International Wizard of Oz Club for ever. He was one of the original 16 members.If you have any reference books about Oz, most of them list his name in the acknowledgments. For me personally, and probably for many others, Fred Meyer's name was more or less synonomous with the club's for a couple of years, before I started corresponding with other club members. I gather he was many people's first friend in the Oz Club (me included), that's why so many of us are so anxious to know how he is doing... Oh, and, Dave - I am reading this precisely on May 15th, at 3:45 p.m. I can't bother to work out exactly how the time differences work out, but each day's Digest usually reaches me a little before noon the same day. Bye! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:16:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Woozy Stephen, Munchkins have square beehives? Also: Eulenspiegel = Owlglass? That would explain to some degree Orangespiegel calling himself the Owl Practicioner. Actually I consider Orangespiegel to be a megajerk because of the crazy and self-aggrandizing stunts he attempts. For example, what type of freak gets mad because there is no orange country in Oz and practices magic just to change the entire country orange? It requires serious jerkitude just to come up with the scheme, and what's worse, Ozma didn't turn him into a rock or something else harmless for executing his scheme (which, indeed, fowl up and instead mirror-reversed Oz). I just can't sympathise with such a character. If Barry and I ever get around to writing our Oz parody The Broad Side of a Barn in Oz, you can be sure that Till Orangespiegel will be a prominent character, and unlike Laumer, we will have it in for him. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:58:54 -0700 From: steller Subject: OZ HAPPH BIRTHDAY BAUM! Thank you Gili for reminding us. Gili: It was Charles de Coster, not Erich Kastner, who wrote _The Legend of Tyl Ulenspiegel_ but that was first published in 1867, and the legend of Ulenspiegel had been around for centuries. Aaron: ******SPOILER FOR THE RAGGEDYS******* Although Powell totally destroys Percy at the beginning of _The Raggedy's in Oz_ at the end of the book (because of his service in _Hidden Valley_) he is restored into some existance, but just as an ordinary rat. At least that is my recollection. The Personality Kid is gone. By the way, Powell (I believe was the first to resurrect Ruggedo from the cactus Ozma (or Thompson) left him as. Percy was the agent of his ressurection, but he also freed a much more sinister magician who almost destroyed all of the fairylands. ************END OF SPOILER******************* MY k'l: I an caught between two chairs. On one hand, as a purist, I believe in calling things by their *proper* names. On the other hand I believe that the purpose of language is communication and if you call things by forms of names that your audience does not understand you will succeed in confusing and alienating them rather than enlightening them. Ah, the problems of on English Professor. Fred Meyer is the Executive Sccretary of the International Wizard of Oz Club (IWOC). He is also the only one of the original sixteen members of IWOC to have remained active for 39 years. He has been to every major Oz convention since the second Ozmopolitan convention. He originated the Oz Research table, ran the IWOC story circle, co-founded OZIANA, and has devoted more time to Oz and IWOC than any other 10 people. SJT ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:34:01 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff For those of you you know a bit more about Oz prehistory (the Dark Ages of Oz?) I have a couple questions--- 1) How did the land of Oz become populated? People had to emmigrate from somewhere, after all. Coming from the mind of a 17th-18th century mid-west American, the culture of the Ozites is, of course, similar. Were they once from _our_ world but got lost amid the rush to occupy America and ended up in Oz a la ROAD TO OZ? How does this explain the obivously magical creatures and the Tottenhots? 2) The Yellow Brick Road-- when was it built exactly? Did the Wizard commision it? Is it only in Munchkin country? (Obviously, the quarry for the bricks was in WINKIE country. . .) There, maybe that can keep us off of HACC's for a bit ;) Danny ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 13:43:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Recoup and Regroup: I will not discuss the HACC for about two weeks. After that, the result will suprise and amaze us all. Begin the countdown! Aaron: As far as I know, those are the only times when someone named the Shaggy Man and his brother. Laumer mentioned that Shags had a name, but never used it. Barry: Jenny Jumpr originally appropriated Number Nine (aka Whistle Breeches) to be her assistant, but he later moved to bigger and better things. Oz from orbit: Probably the only thing visible from outer space would be EC, with all of the lights reflecting off the jewels. Mike: (flames a comin') I remember a little of your cast list. SOme of the more inspired ones were Jim Carrey as the Scarecrow, Brent Spiner as the TIn Woodman and Tom Arnold as the Lion. These are nearly perfect castings, along with Danny DeVito as the Nome King and Rhea Pearlman as Mombi. Fred M. Meyer is the Executive Secretary of the Oz Club. I am not sure of the roles of the Board of Directors and the President, but the Exec Secretary is the engine that runs the Club. I have not been a member for very long (about five years), but I know that Fred, probably more than anyone else, has kept this club running in good shape. He is one of the great ones. I know that we all wish him a speedy and healthful recovery :-) Steve: Bravo for your words. We can all look at Oz in slightly different ways and even disagree in the way it is presented, yet we can do this in a spirit of friendship by remembering that we are here because of our love for the Marvelous Land of Oz. --Tyler "short post" Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:05:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-15-96 From: Barb DeJohn Hi Digest!! One of my friends who went to Kansas State passed on to me an article from the Alum magazine about Tod Machin. He is said to have one of the largest Wizard of Oz collections in the world and if the picture is any indication I would say it probably is true. He lives in Kansas City. Does anyone know him or know if he is a member of IWOC? The band Unwritten Law's new CD is entitled "Oz Factor." The cover of the CD has Dorothy and Oz in the background with some weird characters in front. I don't know what the band sounds like but I'm guessing they are probably alternative. There was another Oz reference on Guiding Light yesterday. It was something about a man behind the screen. WoO must be a favorite for their writers. Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:21:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Just a quick extra: Aaron: The only book of Volkovs that has any sort of counterpart in the FF is _The Wizard of the Emerald City_, which is similar to _The Wizard of Oz_. However, there is no evidence or reason to assume that these books take place in the same year. In all likelihood, Volkovs book takes place within a few years of the year of publication, probably the late 1930s. --Tyler JOnes ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:24:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-15-96 Fred Meyer: For those who don't know him, Fred has been the Executive Secretary of the IWOC for more than 25 years. He has probably done more for spreading the gOZpel than any other single person. He is devoted to proliferating things Ozzy and has done so--with fervor--through the auspices of the International Wizard of Oz Club. Oz, and the Oz Club, mean a great deal to him...much more than they do to most other folks. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 22:00:35 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-96 stellar: >I was watching StarTrek Voyager last night, and one of the characters >looked like Margaret Pellegrini (the Munchkin). Does anyone know if it >was she, I could not find her name in the credits, but the role was a >small one. I hope to see her in Sedan, KS later this month and would >like to mention it to her. I shouldn't think so. According to TV Guide, the "background" performers were all members of Cirque du Soleil. Tyler: "Stage-Door Johnny" is a term for a young man who hangs around the stage door (performer's entrance) of a theatre, especially after the show, in order to meet/talk to/ask out one of the chorus girls. The phrase (and the thing) pretty much died out when the "huge-chorus-of-leggy-girls" musical did. You can also hear the term used in "Life Upon the Wicked Stage" from "Showboat" (play and movie). Eric: I, too, wanted to compliment you on your "Money in Oz" article. It was delightful. Actually, I've wanted to say that ever since I proofread it, so many moons ago, but I thought that might be rude to others. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:38:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-14-96 Uff da! What with my server going down and the excitement Laura and I had over the new "Doctor Who" movie (IT WAS TOTALLY AWESOME! I HOPE THERE'S A NEW SERIES NEXT SEASON!), I'm now falling behind in answering Digests. So, without further ado... > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-12-96 > > << From: Eric Gjovaag > Bad news! The game was shown on our local CBS affiliate, meaning no showing > of "The Wizard of Oz" in the Emerald City! I REALLY hope all that Angela > Lansbury stuff at the end wasn't new, because I had no way to tape it... >> > > Youch! Sorry to hear that! As I have the 50th Anniversary edition (with > the "lost footage" and the original sepia toned Kansas scenes to watch sans > commercials afterwards), I kinda stuck to my Friday night "X-Files" fix. I > did jump in during commercials. I neglected to tape the Afterward stuff > Angela Lansbury did; sorry. Otherwise, I would certainly be able to provide > a copy for you. Well, they showed the movie out here Sunday afternoon (after the fourth and final game of the series, ironically enough). Yeah, the Angela stuff was a rerun, which I have at least two copies of now on tape, I think... > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: Krizzle-Kroo > > Hammerheads: O Hail, Mighty Gjovaag! Oh, no, not again... > Eric: I finished reading _Queen Ann in Oz_ and found it pretty good, though I > found what the knook said about trees (about their relationship to oxygen and > carbon dioxide) somewhat out of place. He's a knook! What would you EXPECT him to say? (Remember, Karyl and I are both from the environmentally conscious Northwest, where trees are very important to us.) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Eric and Stephen: > The reason I was rehashing the entire arguement was that Stephen had > obviously not heard it before, and I was attempting to bring him up to > speed. Couldn't you have e-mailed it just to Stephen, then? > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > (Back to your b-ball game Eric - Dave doesn't need any defending. After all > he is the god of the digest and can "kill" any of us at any time! :)) But he won't, because he is a benevolent deity, who will let us all make up our own minds. A philosophy I agree with, I might add. Now that I can't talk about "Doctor Who" any more, I've added a new line to my .sig, what do you think? --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:52:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-15-96 > From: Avigail Bar-hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-14-96 > > HEY EVERYBODY - IT'S MAY 15! Happy Birthday, Baum and Oz! Ooh, that's right! Maybe in celebration, I WILL eat that last cupcake after all! (And happy 140th, Frank!) > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: HACCs > > Eric, thanks for the reminder about Dr. Who. Why am I now imagining _The > Daleks in Oz_? DALEK (gliding down the Yellow Brick Road): Halt! Halt, or you will be ex-ter-min-a-ted! DOROTHY: Oh, really? (she throws a bucket of water over the Dalek) DALEK (after letting out a piercing electronic scream): AAAHHH!! My ca-sing has been li-qui-da-ted! Mal-func-tion! Mal-func-tion! Who could have e-ver thought that a good lit-tle fe-male hu-man child like you could des-troy our won-der-ful wick-ed-ness? AAAHHHH! (Dalek finally dies. Toto sniffs at the few little electronic bits left.) DAVROS (observing from the shadows): So. This child is more powerful than she appears. Perhaps we should rethink our invasion of this land... (Er, apologies to those of you not familiar with the Daleks. We now return you to our regularly scheduled mayhem.) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy digest > > Eric: > What have you done to deserve this? Nothing. You unwittingly fell into the > trap of assuming that HACC1 is somehow better or superior to HACC's 2 and 3. I have no opinion, one way or another, on ANY HACC! I'm not, as Dave tried to label me once in his FAQ, an opponent, but I'm not a PROponent, either! It just doesn't matter to me, okay? SHEESH! > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Volkovian chronology > > My brother and I just had a discussion over when Volkov's books should be > dated in the HI/RCC. If we assume dates should be parallel those of the > HACC, The Wizard of the Emerald City should be in 1899. However, Ellie > and her parents are noted as originally living in a van, the wheels of > which have been removed, which seems a bit strange for 1899 to me, which > inclines me to place it in 1937. Does anyone else out there have any > relevant information? "The Wizard of the Emerald City" (or whatever the translated title is) was first published ca. 1939, and a new edition, with some added and delted incidents, came out in 1959. It's from this second version that the rest of the series sprang, and they were published in the 60's and 70's (no, I don't have the exact dates handy). --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 21:23:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Dave - Thank you, thank you for offing the extra ======='s. Michael T >The Great Wall is not visible from orbit, either. That's a common myth. It is _also_ no wider than a street. Remember David's business is optics. He may not have meant with the human eye. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:15:29 -0400 From: Athos4@aol.com Subject: Wicked For anyone who might be interested, Edward R. Hamilton, Bookseller Falls Village, CT 06031-5000 has available in "very limited quantities" Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West for $7.95 per copy. Postage, whether you order one or a dozen, is a flat $3.00. The order number is 573698. FYI E. R. Hamilton is a discount/overstock/remainder dealer. Payment is strictly cash; they do not bill or take credit cards. If the item is out of stock, your money is promptly refunded in full. At least, this has been my experience. Enjoy! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:48:35 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-14-96 Saw the film "Twister," in which not only is the [good guys'] prototype Tornado measuring device(s) named Dorothy, but Helen Hunt's as-a-child character owns a small Cairn Terrier (although they don't go for the obvious, it being named Toby rather than Toto). << From: Bob Shepherd Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-13-96 What a perfectly Ozzy weekend we just had! Friday night, of course, was the showing of _The Wizard of Oz_ on CBS. A tradition we have had at our house on "Oz Night" for the past four years is that I take my three kids to the store and let them buy all the junk food they can eat. We then go home, pull out the hide-a-bed, and we all watch the movie together. My daughter, Valerie, gets out her Oz dolls and they watch the movie with us. We have the movie on video tape, of course, but nothing quite matches the fun of that special night the movie is broadcast. The additional film footage and memories that were shown at the end of the movie were a wonderful bonus this year! >> Being the film is 100 minutes (or 101, depending on the source), why not time it to start the (sans commercials) video to end by the time the broadcast ends? Of course, this year apparently they had SO many commercials, it ran *well* beyond the two hour mark, so while the concept has merit, one would have still seen the ending twice before the additional footage. ===================== << From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest HACC stuff >> Regarding the concept of HACC, does Baum factual errors fall into this catagory? I mean, items in later Baum books that directly condradict previously established *facts*. The little piglets were brought to Oz by the Wizard in "D&WinOz" from the Big Outside World, yet in "Tin Woodman," they meet a large set of pigs inaa house that relate that their offspring were the piglets, who left *there* to go live with the Wizard. Did Baum make this error on purpose, or did he simply forgot he had already established the origin of the piglets? Does this fall into Alternate Universe stories, even though by Baum? -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'.... till you can find a rock." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:48:47 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-15-96 << From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-09-96 I know I'm gonna get flamed for not knowing this, but who exactly _is_ the ailing Fred Meyer? >> There is no such thing as "a stupid question," btw. You know when you read the term "to the Young At Heart," to whom the 1939 MGM classic is dedicated? Well, it might as well be speaking of Fred Meyer. I am sure Fred was one of the original founders of the International Wizard of Oz Club since its January 1st inception in 1957, but I do now that for most of its time he has been its executive secretary. At Fred's insistance and encouragement, I wrote my (to date) only published short story for the club's annual short story magazine Oziana (the 1979 issue). Not only did this open and loving man give *me* glowing compliments about the completed work (although the story all but wrote itself), but in the annual Status Report and What's Coming This Year newsletter he singled out my story "The Real Critics" about which to rave. I actually have no idea as to his (current chronological) age, but on a corporeal level (only), he (appeared) "old" when I met him in the summer of 1978 at the NJ MunchkinCon (he and I corresponded tons during three years prior to that, having started shortly after my joining the club). When the inevitable happens, while we may mourn the passing of such a great man for whom the Oz books and film(s) meant so much, like Baum before him, he will no doubt pass over the Shifting Sands to a place of high honour in Ozma's Court. -------------------- Geoffrey L. Gould aka < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'.... till you can find a rock." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Thursday 16-May-96 01:32:46 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MY (AND THE DIGEST'S) ADDRESS: Eric G. forwarded a request to subscribe to the Digest today. and I surmise that where they got my address it was misprinted...I've already encountered two Web sites that had my address as (dropped the 'H')...Folks, if you're Net-surfing and you come across my address, or if you have a page of your own, please be sure it says ! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ BADGER: >Thought for the Day.... >"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'.... till you can find a rock." And this related thought: Diplomacy is about surviving until next century; Politics is about surviving until Friday afternoon! -- Sir Humphery Appleby, "Yes, Prime Minister" DANNY: >The Yellow Brick Road-- when was it built exactly? Did the Wizard >commision it? Is it only in Munchkin country? I'll have to let the others comment on your first two questions, but as far as whether the YBR is only in Munchkin country: I believe the FF has yellow brick roads in all sectors of Oz, although MOPPeT is that by the time my books take place, Ozma has had the roads in Winkie, Quadling, and Gillikin Countries each repainted a different color so that they can be told apart, e.g. the yellow road in Winkie country is now painted blue (so that it will no longer blend in with the yellow Winkie background). -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 18, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Hi everyone! For anyone who was wondering, there was no Ozzy Digest for May 17...I was away all day yesterday attending Glinda's birthday party! :) :) :) -- Dave ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 06:16:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16-96 Hey, has anybody tried to access my web page lately? Has anybody had trouble getting into it? I've been getting some complaints about this, and my server has been acting up of late, but I also think some people just aren't typing in the right stuff... > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Aaron: > As far as I know, those are the only times when someone named the Shaggy > Man and his brother. Laumer mentioned that Shags had a name, but never > used it. Karyl and I DID give him a name in "Queen Ann in Oz," however. > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-14-96 > > Saw the film "Twister," in which not only is the [good guys'] prototype > Tornado measuring device(s) named Dorothy, but Helen Hunt's as-a-child > character owns a small Cairn Terrier (although they don't go for the > obvious, it being named Toby rather than Toto). Isn't the bad guys' device called Dot? That is, of course, a diminutive of the name Dorothy... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:04:44 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Settlers of Oz Good questions, Danny, though to be honest, I don't think the FF (at least as far as I've read) has answered them. In the heretical _A Barnstormer in Oz_, Farmer descends the more familiar human Ozite groups from Goths who cross over by way of a gateway. In that book they don't speak English, which means that if you accept this as a basis for the origin for everyday human Munchkins, Gillikins, Quadlings, and Winkies, you have the language problem to deal with. The theory that Aaron and I came up with was that a spell went kablooey and changed everyone into Anglophones. Farmer, as I recall, did not pin down a date for immigrants to come over, but it would probably have to be several centruries into the common era as he mentions them practicing a syncretic mix of Christianity and what appears to be an ancient Norse-like religion. On the other hand, the ancestors of Till Orangespiegel came over from Germany about 300 years ago, so a much later date may be possible, or it could be that there has been continuous or sporadic immigration over the years. But at the time there is no "official" answer to the question. As to the Yellow Brick Road, I think someone has answered that question in a non-FF book, but since I know less about that, I will defer to others on that question. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:38:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy digest Barry: As far as I know, only Laumer has ever mentioned Professor Nowitall. He gave him the first name of Eydoant and portrayed him as a total academic with no desire for administration, which is why his former (albeit unknown) pupil the Wogglebug was chosen to be the Dean of the Royal College. Laumer showed him as leaning toward the physical sciences, such as physics and chemistry. Steve: That's one of the difficulties: The Wicked Witches of East and West do not HAVE proper names, as defined by the FF or Baum. I suppose if Baum knew that people would still be writing Oz books today, he would have given them some. I meant to tell you this yesterday, but if you want a full discussion on the placement of the Random Housies, check out my web page! Danny: The only mention of ancient peoples living in Oz came in the IWOC extension book _The Ozmapolitan of Oz_, wherein Dorothy meeets some PaleOZlithic and NeOZlithic people in underground caves. If memory serves, I believe that the Paleolithic (old stone age) period occured from 50,000 B.C. to about 10,000 B.C.. MOPPeT is that people migrated to the Oz Universe through gateways similar to those in _Barnstormer_. For some reason, the gateways were larger and more permanent back then, allowing whole tribes to enter instead of just one person. Some people have speculated that the Wizard built the Yellow Brick Road. I disagree with this myself. The whole reason that the Wizard built the palace and Emerald City with a giant wall around it was to keep the Wicked Witches from getting to him. After locking himself in, why would he then build a nice wide road right up to his front door? Others have suggested that Pastoria or other ancient Oz kings built them. In _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, Gingemma caused the Yellow Brick Road in the Munchkin Country to appear with the magic of the Silver Shoes. private vs digest postings: The problem with sending private e-mail to answer a question is that, due to the fluid nature of the membership of this digest, one person asking a question probably means at least a few other people do not know the answer. By posting to the digest, everybody is brought up to speed. Also, private e-mailings tend to go against the purpose of the digest. Alexander: Yes, yes, we already know the stories, but we must continue to tell them so that their lessons will be instilled in our hearts (gross paraphrasing, but the meaning comes through). Danny again: I'll answer your question, since it does not require to discuss the thing-that-I-won't-discuss-for-two-weeks. What obviously happened was that Baum forgot the story in _DotWiz_ and made up another one in _Tin Woodman_. Since the FF is the core of Oz and the Baum 14 is the core of the FF, resolving contradictions within Baum are very important. One solution is to remember that the Wizard was originally a circus showman and may have been prone to exaggeration and bending the truth a little, or twisting it into a pretzel. Some people have theorized that he got the pigs as described in _Tin Woodman_. When he returned to America, he realized that people may not believe in a color-schemed land with talking animals and Wicked Witches, so he made up a slightly more believeable story about the mysterious island of Teenty-Weent. When he met Dorothy again, he simply continued the tale. ********** THE MARCH LAUMER SOLUTION ********** March Laumer, according to himself, specializes in resolving contradictions in the FF (or at least the first 36). This is his story: The piglets are children of Prof. and Mrs. Swyne as mentioned in _Tin Woodman_. Desiring further education for his children, Prof. Swyne sends them to a famous school on the island of Teenty-Weent. A sailor washes ashore on this island, and pig-naps the piglets, intending to make some money when he gets home. Later, he sells them to a circus-man named Oscar Diggs, who eventually gets back to Oz. Therefore, according to Laumer, both stories are true, in a roundabout sort of way. ********** END OF THE WORLD ACCORDING TO LAUMER *********** --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:02:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Prehistory of Oz 1) Danny, from The Woozy of Oz in seems that fairies first came to Oz's world for permanent settlement about half a million years ago. I have no data on when humans first came to the planet, though I believe that they came from Earth, the human homeworld, somehow. Magical creatures other than fairies spontaneous popped into existence (according to magical hotspot and Magic Machine theory) or were deliberately created. The yet unfinished Mombi of Oz does make mention of Oogaboo being settled by Moites three centuries before the Ozmatic era. As for the Yellow Brick Roads, according to the chronologically problematic How the Wizard Came to Oz, they were magically created by the Wicked Witch of the East in order to facilitate her (unsuccessful) invasions of the Emerald City. The psychologically unbelieveable Dorothy of Oz maintains they were a joint project of the Wizard and the Good Witch of the North, the bricks getting their yellow color from love and sunshine, but this hypothesis is untenable as the Wizard supposedly enchanted the bricks at a time when he had no real powers. (In fact, the whole book is riddled with such holes.) Clearly at least the First Yellow Brick Road must have been built no later than during the Wizardian era, but other than that, as there is (I think) no FF-based data on their origin, there is no definitive solution to the problem. 2) Daniel, it has been mentioned on this Digest that Laumer found a solution to the piglets problem. First, the piglets were sent by their parents, Dr. and Mrs. Swyne, to Teeny-Weent to get an education. Second, they were kidnapped by a sailor. Third, they were traded by the sailor to the Wizard for nine tickets to the circus. Also: Yes, Baum did make a blunder. He did do that from time to time. Personally, I think his biggest blunder was making Ozma a fairy after several books in which she could be interpetted quite easily as being human, as this has caused no end of hairy reinterpretations to make it work properly. But what's done is done, and so even in Adelmanian Oz a fairy she remains. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:48:53 -0700 From: steller Subject: Real Things(?) Aaron: Actually (according to Laumer) Munchkins have square *blue* beehives. I will not deny the Til ORANGEspiegel is a Megajerk. It is the person whose name March Laumer appropriated who I defend. Barbara De John: Tod Machin is indeed in IWOC. Jane Albright knows him well and will probably have much more to say about him. SJT ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:10:39 -0400 From: homer OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ I wonder how deep is the desert? The Nomes couldn't walk across it but they could go beneath it. Also does the desert turn EVERYONE that steps on it to dust, or just everyone LIVING? Could,'t the Scarecrow or Scraps go across it without the use of, say, the Magic Carpet? In Eric Shanower's The Forgotten Forest, The Sawhorse runs across it. OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:15:27 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-10-96 Got a week's worth of Digests to catch up on, so apologies for the "un-timely-ness" of these comments: Steve Teller: You say that the person Fred was going to get to translate "Emerald Rain" has died. I thought he was going to get Peter Blystone to do it. Is Peter dead? If so, when, where and how did he die? My God, man, give us news! Barb de John & Dave Our Host: Delightful as your "Oz-sightings" are, don't just post them here. Send them to Michael Gessel for the "Across the Shifting Sands" feature in the Bugle! With your permission, Barb, I'll pass yours along, unless you want to send it yourself, but Dave, I'd want a little more information on the title and author of the MTM book you were reading. Hic, HACC, hoc: As far as I'm concerned, some books are available in the History section of the Emerald City Barnes & Noble, and some are available in the Historical Fiction section, and when you own the bookstore you can stock the shelves any way you want to. That's all. Except of course for the Lurline's Machine series, which would be available in the *Science* Fiction section. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 14:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Tornado Travel Dave, I don't know if Leah Garchik's "Personals" is widely syndicated, but today's feature in the San Francisco Chronicle cites an account of a tornado that hit Kirksville, Missouri, on April 27, 1899. A Miss Moorhouse was propelled through the air about 1.4 and deposited safely to the ground. Her account is apparently reprinted in "Tornado: Accounts of Tornadoes in Iowa" by John Stanford (Iowa State University Press, 1977). Peter ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:51:10 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16-96 Hi Digest! Danny - Philip Jose Farmer seemed to have the same kind of questions in mind about how people got to Oz when he wrote "A Barnstormer in Oz". He has some interesting answers, but I don't have the patience to go into them! Barb DeJohn - Yes, Tod Machin is a member of the IWOC. He sends letters in turquoise envelopes, and he has beautiful curly handwriting... Eric - All I know about Daleks, I learnt at the Museum of the Moving Image in London a couple of years back, when they had a huge exhbit about the various Dr. Whos. Interestingly enough, near the enterance to the exhibit stood Tik-Tok from "Return to Oz", a little tarnished and in a glass case, but you couldn't miss him. :-) |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:33:04 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-15-96 For the Digest: Someone asked about Wizard of Oz audio clips for the computer a while ago. I have them (got them on sale at Radio Shack!) and here's the address of the company that sells them: Sound Source Unlimited, Inc., 2985 E. Hillcrest Dr., Suite A, Westlake Village, CA 91362. I have them installed on my computer--it says "I ----AM ------ OZ ---- THE GREAT AND POWERFUL!!" when Windows '95 comes up. Tried using the Witch's laugh as the default beep, but it became pretty darn irritating to hear the computer cackle at me all the time. The Munchkin "Follow the Yellow Brick Road" turned out to be the least irritating default sound. By now, Sound Source probably has animated clips to go with the sounds. Happy hunting! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 22:45:58 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Not all Ozzy... Hi again! Aaron Adelman wrote: << David, Jenny Jump and Number Nine getting married seems quite reasonable, though considering their very shaky start, I wonder if a repeat of Jinjur's situation might occur...>> Do you mean domestic violence (on the part of Jenny and Jinjur, that is), or divorce (Jinjur seems to be single again in TIN WOODMAN, not to mention A RUNAWAY IN OZ) or both? Michael Turniansky wrote: << I was wondering, if the two mated, would they produce the Medium Rare Beast? :-)>> Actually, since I've just read Judith and Neil Morgan's excellent biography of Dr. Seuss, "Dr. Seuss and Mr. Geisel," I'm reminded of the fact that Dr. Seuss (a/k/a Theodor Seuss Geisel) and L. Frank Baum were, respectively, the first and second authors every bit of whose work I passionately wanted to read, starting at the age of about 4 and 6 respectively. Somehow it's not surprising in retrospect, since they had a somewhat similar approach to storytelling. (Granted that Seuss mainly worked in the comic-verse genre largely abandoned by Baum after FATHER GOOSE, but his early prose books like THE KING'S STILTS and THE 500 HATS OF BARTHOLOMEW CUBBINS had almost an Ozzy approach to genuine adventure.) Both men filled their books with unusual people, imaginative animals, some real ones acting unlike any of their species (Baum had a cowardly lion and a wise donkey; Seuss an elephant who hatched an egg and the Cat in the Hat), and some whose like nobody has ever seen (the Kalidahs, Orks and the Woozy on one hand; the Sneetches, the Whos and the Lorax on the other). Even Seuss's drawing style might have pleased Baum: in his less favorably inclined moments toward Neill he often expressed the desire for an artist who was more of a cartoonist and who could draw funny pictures. A crossover would seem almost too obvious, after that...both men's worlds were too well realized on their own to try to mix them. Still, I don't know of any Dr. Seuss Digest, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was one. Steve Teller wrote: << P.S. Never discard an OZIANA, it may be valuable someday! Some early ones have fetched a pretty penny in auctions.>> I never owned that issue, sad to say...but I'm sure the person I borrowed it from is taking your advice! <> I first encountered the character in a book by, I think, Moritz Jagendorf (would I make up a name like that?) called THE MERRY PRANKS OF TYLL or something like that. I've since read others/ Probably Tyl's most famous adventure (the equivalent of Brer Rabbit's encounter with the Tar Baby in that most people remember it best) was the time he went to work for a baker, and with carefully assumed naivete asked what he should bake. The baker sarcastically told him to bake monkeys and owls, and that's exactly what Tyl made (cookies in those shapes). Summarily dismissed on the baker's return, Tyl took the cookies with him, successfully sold them at a street fair, and disappeared before the baker could ask to be reimbursed for his dough... Eric Gjovaag wrote: <> I hear it's not too good, but is it really THAT bad an idea? I didn't hear too many complaints when the third movie resurrected Mr. Spock... <> <<(Er, apologies to those of you not familiar with the Daleks. We now return you to our regularly scheduled mayhem.)>> I suppose some people aren't, since the original BBC program was distributed sporadically in America. (It was usually on PBS stations before the current Fox movie...very well done, indeed! Though one wonders why, since this new Doctor once again has different tastes from his earlier incarnations--specifically including Tom Baker's, as seen when he looks for clothes and shudders at the scarf--he happens to be such a fancier of jelly babies.) Amazing how much the Daleks sound like Tik-Tok, though since they're actually cyborgs (with human bodies and/or brains inside, descended from displaced Earthmen brought to the planet Skaro in ancient times), they were really more akin to the Tin Woodman... Badger wrote: <> I figured either (a) the Swynes were lying (claiming relationship to celebrities isn't unknown), or (b) the Wizard was lying (how much of a magician's patter is even supposed to be the literal truth, anyway?), or (c) the Island of Teenty-Weent is actually IN Oz, and the Wizard had had the Piglets even before he left Oz in WIZARD. About time I actually said something about Oz, isn't it...? Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:54:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Dorothy and Locasta Just a thought: As you all probably know, in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz the Good Witch of the North kisses Dorothy on the forehead, and the resulting mark is supposed to protect the girl from harm. Is there any evidence of what would happen if someone tried to harm Dorothy? Presumably it would be something terrible, as the King of the Winged Monkeys risks offending Bastinda, for whom it must be noted that no one (so far as I know) has ever written anything nice about her, rather than bring about whatever Locasta decreed would happen to a violator. I am aware of Kiki Aru transforming Dorothy into a lamb, which resulted in no immediate effects on him, but perhaps to be worthy of the curse one needs to actually hurt her, e.g., someone hits Dorothy and draws blood. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 18-May-96 01:10:53 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MGM INFO?: I received a private message from someone asking if there are any resources on the Internet devoted specifically to "movie/tv stuff" (I gather she means the MGM _Wizard of Oz_ movie)? If so could you E-mail her privately at: ivygate@intrnet.net ELEANOR: >but Dave, I'd want a little more information >on the title and author of the MTM book you were reading. Er, what book was this? (What does MTM stand for?) RICH M.: I just wanted to say I appreciated your comments about Dr. Seuss! I still have and read his books as well... LOCASTA'S KISS: Aaron wrote: >As you all probably know, in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz >the Good Witch of the North kisses Dorothy on the forehead, and the >resulting mark is supposed to protect the girl from harm. Is there any >evidence of what would happen if someone tried to harm Dorothy? >Presumably it would be something terrible, as the King of the Winged >Monkeys risks offending Bastinda...rather than bring about whatever Locasta >decreed would happen to a violator. I am aware of Kiki Aru transforming >Dorothy into a lamb, which resulted in no immediate effects on him, but >perhaps to be worthy of the curse one needs to actually hurt her, e.g., >someone hits Dorothy and draws blood. My book addresses this issue... ********* SPOILER FOR _LOCASTA AND THE THREE ADEPTS OF OZ_ ********** In one part of my story, Ozma, Dan, the Adepts, and others--all of whom have been kissed by Locasta--are consumed by a horrible monster called the Chrimeythomveg (this is a portmanteau of the names of the bullies who picked on me in grammer school). Our heroes are unharmed, except that they are now in the monster's stomach. Ozma wonders how they could have survived, and Audirfah (the dark-haired Adept) observes that it is because Locasta's kiss is protecting them them from harm. "Being trapped in a monster's stomach isn't harm?" Augnetah (the Adept with golden hair) asks. "It's an *inconvenience*" Audirfah explains. Presumably merely turning one into a lamb is a similar "inconvenience". Perhaps if the Chrimeythomveg had done something else to do them more direct harm, the consequenses for the monster would have been terrible, though MOPPeT is that the kiss is preventative, not a punishment after the fact. ********* END SPOILER ********* -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 19, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:10:46 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Unfortunately, I missed the last posting of the Digest (5-17) so I can't see what everyone's comments were regarding my questions of pre-hOZstory-- ancient emmigration and the YBR Fortunately, though, I can clarify my last statement in my posting. Looking back, I think one could mistakening see some racial bais. I want to make sure no one is readining me incorrectly when I was discussing what is a Native Ozian. It is my belief that Native Ozians are actually the farmers and smiths reminiscent of the American West that Dorothy meets as Munchkins and Winkies. How are these Ozites different in cultural roots and emmigration than other Ozian citizens such as the Scoodlers or the Hammerheads who are wierdly magical? How are all of the above different than other Ozian citizens that do not fit in either category, like the Tottenhots-- they aren't magical, they just like to play, and the animals like those in Donkeytown or Foxtown-- normal animals at first glance, but able to wield magic. Looking at animals again, you have a range from these to lions, tigers, and bears to camels and elephants to bunny rabbits. This is my arguement, but when boiled down to its basics, I risked confusion in seeming to promote WASPish ideals. Perhaps, though, beacuse of Baum's era, these ideals may be there anyway. Food for thought, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 06:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-18-96 > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy digest > > Barry: > As far as I know, only Laumer has ever mentioned Professor Nowitall. Baum mentions him in "The Marvelous Land of Oz," and Neill even illustrated his hand. But he doesn't actually appear, of course. > private vs digest postings: > The problem with sending private e-mail to answer a question is that, due to > the fluid nature of the membership of this digest, one person asking a > question probably means at least a few other people do not know the answer. > By posting to the digest, everybody is brought up to speed. Also, private > e-mailings tend to go against the purpose of the digest. But long posts that repeat stuff that's already been said here a number of times is, frankly, dull, and a waste of time, space, and for some people money. Once every week or two is fine, but there have been times, you must admit, Tyler, that you've posted long explanations about the HACC every day. I still say that those who are interested in discussing the HACC can start a sub-list and discuss it amongst themselves, but I also realize that this is not entirely practical or satisfactory. If I had all the answers, of course, I'd be secretary of the International Wizard of Oz Club . > From: steller > Subject: Real Things(?) > > Aaron: Actually (according to Laumer) Munchkins have square *blue* > beehives. To add a little more info here, Baum describes the Woozy's skin as being blue (so I don't know why Neill illustrated him as being brown). > From: rri0189@ibm.net > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-10-96 > > Hic, HACC, hoc: > As far as I'm concerned, some books are available in the History section > of the Emerald City Barnes & Noble, and some are available in the > Historical Fiction section, and when you own the bookstore you can stock > the shelves any way you want to. That's all. Except of course for the > Lurline's Machine series, which would be available in the *Science* > Fiction section. Heh! I LIKE this explanation! But no matter how hard I look, the Seattle Barnes & Noble (Seattle, the Emerald City -- get it?) only carries its Oz books in Children's Classics... > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16-96 > > Eric - All I know about Daleks, I learnt at the Museum of the Moving > Image in London a couple of years back, when they had a huge exhbit about > the various Dr. Whos. Interestingly enough, near the enterance to the > exhibit stood Tik-Tok from "Return to Oz", a little tarnished and in a > glass case, but you couldn't miss him. :-) AAARRRGGGHHH!!!! You got to see the MOMI exhibit??? Wow, I'd heard that it was great. But if Tik-Tok was there as well...hmm, disturbing questions are now raised about the relationship between him and the Cybermen... > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: Not all Ozzy... > [Re: "The Return" of Captain Kirk] > I hear it's not too good, but is it really THAT bad an idea? I didn't > hear too many complaints when the third movie resurrected Mr. Spock... But ya gotta remember, at the time "Star Trek III" came out, that was the only Star Trek around, and it had a bigger emotional impact when Spock died in STII. Now, Kirk's day has come and gone, and others (Picard, Sisko, Janeway) have taken his place. So why kill him off in "Generations" only to bring him back? At the hands of the BORG, no less? Besides, every review I've read of "The Return" say it's just not that good a book, no matter what you think of Kirk's return. > <<(Er, apologies to those of you not familiar with the Daleks. We now return > you to our regularly scheduled mayhem.)>> > > I suppose some people aren't, since the original BBC program was > distributed sporadically in America. (It was usually on PBS stations before > the current Fox movie...very well done, indeed! Still is shown in many places, actually, including here in the Seattle/Tacoma area. But it's nowhere NEAR as widely distributed now as in the show's heyday in the early 80's. > Though one wonders why, since > this new Doctor once again has different tastes from his earlier > incarnations--specifically including Tom Baker's, as seen when he looks for > clothes and shudders at the scarf--he happens to be such a fancier of jelly > babies.) The Doctor's tastes have always changed (and it was the Doctor's second incarnation, played by the late Patrick Troughton, who introduced not only jelly babies to the character, but the sonic screwdriver). The first Doctor knew nothing of cricket, but the fourth Doctor used cricketing metaphors all the time, and the fifth Doctor played the game and dressed in a cricketer's outfit. The sixth Doctor derided his predecessor's "feckless charm," and he was ridiculed in turn by his successor for his fashion sense. All part of the regeneration process, I suppose. If anyone else wants to discuss "Doctor Who," I propse either taking it to private e-mail or carrying the conversation over to the rec.arts.drwho newsgroup. > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Dorothy and Locasta > > Just a thought: As you all probably know, in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz > the Good Witch of the North kisses Dorothy on the forehead, and the > resulting mark is supposed to protect the girl from harm. Is there any > evidence of what would happen if someone tried to harm Dorothy? Not evidence, exactly, but the kiss does come into play again in "The Wishing Horse of Oz." --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 08:27:03 -0700 From: steller Subject: Ozzy matters Eleanor: No, to the best of my knowledge Peter Blystone is not dead. He was having severe sight problems involved with cateracts the last time I (or Fred spoke with him) which was delaying the publication of _Tales of Magic Land III). Fred had another translator in mind (I do not know the name) who has died. Fred had managed to get, presumably accurate translations made of _Yellow Fog_ and _Deserted Castle_ before the Buckethead versions appeared. Aaron: In _The Wishing Horse of Oz_, Gloma, the otherwise good witch, attempts to destroy Dorothy (because she thought Dorothy was a destroyer of witches and her own existance was in danger) and failed because of kiss of the Good Witch of the North. She then admitted defeat and offered herself for sacrifice if Dorothy would not punish her subjects. She later provided Dorothy with the Powder of Darkness that helped save the day. The Good Witch's kiss protects Dorothy from harm, it doesn't punish those who attempt to harm ber. (Note that I avoid using the names Locasta, Tattypoo and Bastinda). ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 10:35:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-18-96 i have many big zips of oz files i could upload them if you wish to a alt binary group aslo i to seem to remember the wizard commissioned the road to be built did anyone catch the outtakes from oz songs that have been posted in the binary also i notice no talk about the oz comics have been talked about here so far in my all of 2 digests i have got anyway id say get the graphic novels from yoru local comic shop well worth the price great ozzy feel to them also there is now oz squad put out and just oz both of which kick butt and another book out of oz stories folks want more info on these just let me know hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:25:35 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-18-96 << Isn't the bad guys' device called Dot? That is, of course, a diminutive of the name Dorothy... --Eric Gjovaag >> Well, also as Cary Elwes's character stole the design, just making it look a bit different (square sensors rather than round, etc)., and probably used DOT as a further dig. ================= From Rich Morrissey: >>The little piglets were brought to Oz by the Wizard in "D&WinOz" from the Big Outside World, yet in "Tin Woodman," they meet a large set of pigs ina house that relate that their offspring were the piglets, who left *there* to go live with the Wizard. Did Baum make this error on purpose, or did he simply forgot he had already established the origin of the piglets? Does this fall into Alternate Universe stories, even though by Baum?>> I figured either (a) the Swynes were lying (claiming relationship to celebrities isn't unknown), or (b) the Wizard was lying (how much of a magician's patter is even supposed to be the literal truth, anyway?), or (c) the Island of Teenty-Weent is actually IN Oz, and the Wizard had had the Piglets even before he left Oz in WIZARD. Hmmmmm.... (a) is feasible, but they'd have little reason to lie; they make no other attempts to impress their guests, (b) the Wizard had them right there with him, so it wasn't like he seemed to be lying, (c) I should try to find the book and check the story again (I know it's heresy to pack one's Oz books ), but my recollection is that the Island of Teenty-Weent was merely "where everything is small" (the piglets are "too large" for him to mean Lilliput ), and that he'd not returned to the magical realms prior to this visit (c-A) where would he have hidden them prior to his departure in WoZ? "Careful where you step there, my dear, that's our bacon breakfast..." ================= From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Dorothy and Locasta << Just a thought: As you all probably know, in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz the Good Witch of the North kisses Dorothy on the forehead, and the resulting mark is supposed to protect the girl from harm. Is there any evidence of what would happen if someone tried to harm Dorothy? Presumably it would be something terrible, as the King of the Winged Monkeys risks offending Bastinda, for whom it must be noted that no one (so far as I know) has ever written anything nice about her, rather than bring about whatever Locasta decreed would happen to a violator. I am aware of Kiki Aru transforming Dorothy into a lamb, which resulted in no immediate effects on him, but perhaps to be worthy of the curse one needs to actually hurt her, e.g., someone hits Dorothy and draws blood. >> Perhaps the mark vanished when Dorothy first returned to Kansas (where Ozian magick does not work). It would have to be re-applied upon a return. I agree that Kiki Aru turning her into a lamb did no more harm than turning the Nome King into a goose (except having the King concerned for possibly laying an egg!); I think "drawing blood" would fall under the No Harm rule. ================= From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things << MGM INFO?: I received a private message from someone asking if there are any resources on the Internet devoted specifically to "movie/tv stuff" (I gather she means the MGM _Wizard of Oz_ movie)? >> Hey, hey! Feel free to tell the rest of us MGMers too! If she means non-related Oz TV stuff, she can check my web site: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/tv.htm That'll keep her busy surfing.... -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?" < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 20:35:05 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-18-96 Steve Teller - I checked, and Erich Kastner actually did write a book entitled "Til Ulenspeigel". A friend of mine has it in Hebrew, I don't know if it's ever been translated into English. Kastner doesn't seem to be as popular in the U.S. as he is in Israel, which is too bad for the U.S.! I wouldn't be surprised if other authors have written books about the same character, after all, he is a folkloric character and there isn't neccesarily a definitive written version of his escapades. I am now reading "Wicked", and will share my opinions about this book when I am done. Don't you all envy Dave? |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 15:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest Eric: I just tried to access your page (May 18, 11:30 AM Tucson time, which is the same as Seattle time, since we do not do the Daylight Savings Shuffle). I got a PPP negotiation error, which could mean that (1) I simply timed out on my network or (2) my browser could not find you page. Let's try it backwards. Can YOU access MY page? Also, your reference in _Queen Ann_ was the "only time" that I was talking about. I just didnt specify it, since Aaron already did. Barry and Danny: Also in _Barnstormer_, Hank is told that when humans first arrived here, they encountered people that sounded suspiciously like Neanderthals, so it's possible (according to Farmer) that people have been there for over a hundred thousand years. Since this book is not accurate to the FF, however, it does not count in the "real" Oz and the evidence in _Ozmapolitan_ is the only hard data that we have. Spencer: Do you have any hard data? Harry: Nothing that you would call "rock hard". Aaron and Danny: I tend to discount the evidence in _Dorothy of Oz_, but I remain doubftul that the Wizard had a hand in building the Yellow Brick Roads, since having roads right to his front door would defeat the purpose of him trying to isolate himself from the world. Homer: The sand itself is probably a couple of feet deep. In _Land_, the Griffon sank a little bit into the sands before collapsing. In _Emerald City_, Baum mentioned that, under the desert, the Nomes tunneled through solid rock. I would imagine that the sand is between one and three feet deep in places with drifts here and there. Below that there is probably a strata of dirt and below that, solid rock. Also, I would iamgine that only organic material would be destroyed and that people such as Scraps and the Scarecrow could survive by walking on it. Rich: According to the non-FF _Oz and the Three Witches_, which some people do not like since it reads more like a textbook than an actual story, the Wizard knew the trick of the Nine Tiny Piglets, but was using mice when he lived in Oz. Aaron: As far as I can tell, nobody has ever actually tried to physically harm Dorothy in the series. I tend to agree with Dave that such things as turning her into a lamb are inconvenient, but not harmful. Of course, it is possible that the kiss has worn off after so many years, but you never can tell. Dave: I believe that MTM stands for the Mary Tyler Moore Network. It pokes fun of the MGM logo in that the two look very similar and MTM has a cat appear and it meows in place of the roaring lion. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:12:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Woozy of Oz ***WARNING: DISCUSSION OF LAUMERIAN AND ADELMANIAN MATERIAL*** 1) My brother and I several minutes ago discussed an idea he had for resolving the contradiction between the Laumerian and Adelmanian versions of the origin of the Woozy. He suggests that perhaps bears and Munchkin beehives can somehow produce wooziform creatures which we provisionally call blockheads. These blockheads turn out to be useful in that they can be instilled with magical spells, hence easing the burden of magic-workers who need to invoke one or more long spells repeatedly.. So Hiergargo takes a blockhead and, probably with the aid of one or more fairies, instills in him whatever special spells he wants, which as a side effect causes the three hairs to grow on his tail, and hence the Woozy is created. The question is whether or not this is a viable theory. From the Adelmanian side it can be accomodated with minor modifications, but how well does it work with Laumer's material? ****END WARNING**** 2) Elanor, well Barry and I are planning to attempt publishing The Woozy of Oz through a science fiction publishing company... 3) Rich, given Jenny Jump's temper, I wouldn't put violence past her, though I think Number Nine would sue for a divorce before the tension escalated that high. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 20, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:12:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Woozy of Oz ***WARNING: DISCUSSION OF LAUMERIAN AND ADELMANIAN MATERIAL*** 1) My brother and I several minutes ago discussed an idea he had for resolving the contradiction between the Laumerian and Adelmanian versions of the origin of the Woozy. He suggests that perhaps bears and Munchkin beehives can somehow produce wooziform creatures which we provisionally call blockheads. These blockheads turn out to be useful in that they can be instilled with magical spells, hence easing the burden of magic-workers who need to invoke one or more long spells repeatedly.. So Hiergargo takes a blockhead and, probably with the aid of one or more fairies, instills in him whatever special spells he wants, which as a side effect causes the three hairs to grow on his tail, and hence the Woozy is created. The question is whether or not this is a viable theory. From the Adelmanian side it can be accomodated with minor modifications, but how well does it work with Laumer's material? ****END WARNING**** 2) Elanor, well Barry and I are planning to attempt publishing The Woozy of Oz through a science fiction publishing company... 3) Rich, given Jenny Jump's temper, I wouldn't put violence past her, though I think Number Nine would sue for a divorce before the tension escalated that high. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:06:51 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-19-96 Hi Digest! Eric - I meant that TikTok was standing near the entrance of the exhibit FROM THE OUTSIDE. He wasn't actually included in the exhibit! Tyler - strictly speaking, the Scarecrow and the Patchwork Girl actually are made of organic materials - cotton, straw. But I get your meaning anyway, and I tend to agree: if the Tinman and the Scarecrow weren't harmed by the fumes in the Poppy Field, they shouldn't be harmed by the fumes of the Deadly Desert, either. However, the scarecrow, being highly flammable, might like to take some precautions against the desert anyway... Anthony - nice to have you aboard the graphic novels have been discussed here a couple of times and are generally liked by all unlike some of the other Oz comics have you noticed I'm trying to write with no periods like you? :-) Gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 07:14:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-19-96 > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > Unfortunately, I missed the last posting of the Digest (5-17) so I > can't see what everyone's comments were regarding my questions of > pre-hOZstory-- ancient emmigration and the YBR That's okay, we ALL missed it . > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-18-96 > > i notice no talk about the oz comics have been > talked about here so far in my all of 2 digests i have got anyway id > say get the graphic novels from yoru local comic shop well worth the price > great ozzy feel to them also there is now oz squad put out and just oz > both of which kick butt and another book out of oz stories folks want more > info on these just let me know We have discussed the comics before, of course, and I have quite a section on them in my FAQ. And many of us on this list know Eric Shanower, who wrote and drew the graphic novels and is half of the team responsible for "Oz Story" magazine. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy DIgest > > Eric: > I just tried to access your page (May 18, 11:30 AM Tucson time, which is > the same as Seattle time, since we do not do the Daylight Savings Shuffle). > I got a PPP negotiation error, which could mean that (1) I simply timed out > on my network or (2) my browser could not find you page. Gee, I wish I knew more about the practical side of all this, so I could actually give some sort of intelligent and informed response... > Let's try it backwards. Can YOU access MY page? I haven't tried to for a while, but I've never had a problem in the past. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 10:16:48 -0400 From: David A Gerstein Subject: Woozy: Brown vs. blue ERIC G.: Around the time that "The Patchwork Girl" was being finished, small models of the Woozy were made as toys and distributed in shops. Some Baum Bugle printed an ad for one of these toys... "This is the Woozy from Woozy Town, He has [?] [?] and his color's brown. The Woozy is a cunning beast, with most peculiar habits, He eats nothing but [?] [?] and little Easter rabbits..." While this is about as uncanonical as you get, I have a hunch that these toymakers issued a brown Woozy before the color plates were actually colored, in their engraved form, at the printer's for PATCHWORK GIRL. So the book had to match the Woozies that were available to the public, I guess. (Does anyone HAVE one of these Woozies? Or even a more detailed recollection of this ad or what year of the BUGLE it appeared in? As I recall the toy Woozy looked very like the 'real' one, not really that hard to do when your inspiration looks like it does!) David Gerstein <96dag@williams.edu> "Have you seen THE WOGGLE-BUG?" "Yes, and I'm sorry I didn't bring the insect powder!" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 10:29:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) Stephen, what? Is Tales of Magic Land III out already? If so, I'll have to ILL it then... 2) Mark, if you have digital copies of the last five Thompson books, we would certainly appreciate those. Though digital versions of the entire FF are supposed to exist, only Baumian material has been put online so far. 3) Secondary reason to discount evidence from Dorothy of Oz: Would the Wicked Witch of the East appreciate the Wizard and the Good Witch of the North carrying on a building project in HER territory? I think not... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:56:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest ********** 2 MOPPETS CONCERNING OZIAN ORIGINS ********** Danny: It has always been my thought that the inhabitants of the strange kingdoms were originally normal humans, such as the farmers, etc. that Dorothy met on her first trip. Back in the old days, after Lurline enchanted the land, some people were affected more than others. For example, suppose that the ancestors of the inhabitants of Scare City liked to frighten people and they did this a lot, almost to the exclusion of all else. The magic may have picked up on that and altered them over the centuries. MOPPeT 2 is one I mentioned a couple months ago. That is, that many of these strange kingdoms are not in Oz at all, but that each one is a small demi- Universe that is sometimes connected to Oz via a hperdimensional link. The links come and go and can even move around. This is used to explain why people can have adventures in the same area over and over again and meet new countries every time. ********** END OF ORIGIN MOPPET ********** Eric: It is true that I have at times been verbose in my explanation of the HACC, but when the two-week deadline is up, any explanation/defense of it will appear on my web page. Stephen: It is interesting that you specifically avoid using the names Tattypoo, Locasta and Bastinda. Tattypoo, if you will recall, was used in the FF, and is therefore canononical to most people. Mark Anthony: I can't remember any mention of the Wizard mentioning that he commissioned the roads to be built. Badger: According to _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_, the Wizard never went to Teenty-Weent. He bought them from a Sailor in Los Angeles, who was the one who actually went there. Aaron: AS far as I know, there will be no problem with your origin and Laumers material. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 18:22:35 +0000 (CDT) From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Subject: Re: Organic materials Very shortg today--gotta get grades in. Tyler: Straw and Cotton *are* organic materials. SJT ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:57:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Aaron - Congratulations! You have invented (see Oz Digest of 16 May 1996) a new perversion/activity - "interpetting." We await, with interest, your definition! :) :) Slow weekend greeting to all. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:15:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-19-96 Woozy: Baum does, indeed, describe the Woozy as being blue; however, I'm not sure we should blame Neill for coloring him brown. Neill did very little of the actual color work, except for the cps made from actual paintings (as in EMERALD CITY) for the Oz books. Notations on his original artwork we've seen indicate that he commonly would make suggestions to the colorist assigned to his work. I do not know if the Woozy's color is Neill's mistake, or that of his colorist. Fred Meyer: Recouping and working on rehab in Wisconsin. He sounded better today than I've heard him sound in months. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:20:49 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-18-96 On the Yellow Brick Road problem: The Yellow Brick Road likely dated back to when the Pre-Wizard capitol of Oz existed and there was free traffic between every section of Oz. (The pre-Wizard capitol is named Ozmara in "Seven Blue Mountains of Oz." ) . In "Wizard" the Yellow Brick Road is in good repair in the settled parts of Munchkinland. In the wild woods where Dorothy and her friends meet the Cowardly Lion, it is in very poor repair. It is reasonable to believe that the road was built before the Wicked Witches conquered Oz--after that, there was not much traffic between Munchkinland and the capitol of Oz, even when the Wizard rebuilt it. As long as the Wicked Witch ruled Munchkinland, nobody (or hardly anyone) cared to travel to her country, and likely the Wicked Witch (like the former Soviet Union) discouraged (or strictly forbade!) her Munchkins from leavng. Hence the Yellow Brick Road between Munchkinland and the capitol of Oz fell into disrepair and stayed that way until the rule of the Scarecrow, and then Ozma. Being the good queen she is, Ozma probably had all roads repaired and more built. Both Munchkinland and the Quadling Country are far easier to travel to in later books than "The Wizard." Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:40:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Handy Mandy in Oz and The Blue Emperor of Oz I was at the Strand Bookstore here in New York (828 Broadway (at 12th Street)) today, and I managed to get copies of Handy Mandy in Oz and Captain Salt in Oz--put out by Books of Wonder, no less--for $6.50 each. For everyone else in the NY area: they also had one more copy of each there, the BOW edition of Tik-Tok of Oz (simply beautiful), The Sea Fairies, Mother Goose in Prose, Del Ray paperback editions of various Baum books, and, of course, the omipresent The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. ***WARNING: ENTERING HYPOTHETICAL SPOILER MODE*** Looking at my new copy of Handy Mandy in Oz, I noticed that the name of the Royal Ox is Boz and that he has no recollection of his past before becoming the Royal Ox of Keretaria except that he lived in the Blue Forest. I also remembered that it had been said on this Digest that Pastoria's father is Ozroar Boz, that he turned up again in the unILLable The Blue Emperor of Oz, and that he ended up living in a cottage in the Blue Forest. I now suspect that The Royal Ox is indeed the transformation of Ozroar Boz, but not being able to obtain the needed book to find out, I ask if my guess is correct, or whether it's just a curious but wrong hypothesis, like one I sent to Eric before I read Queen Ann in Oz that, based on comments he had made, the Shaggy Man was the lost king of Oogaboo. ***EXIT HYPOTHETICAL SPOILER MODE*** Also: Before I forget, thank you Peter for reprinting Handy Mandy in Oz and Captain Salt in Oz. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 19-May-96 22:22:28 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THOUGHTS ABOUT THE WOOZY: Aaron wrote: >My brother and I several minutes ago discussed an idea he had for >resolving the contradiction between the Laumerian and Adelmanian >versions of the origin of the Woozy. He suggests that perhaps bears and >Munchkin beehives can somehow produce wooziform creatures... Based on my knowledge of paleontology, the technical term proabably be "Woozimorph". :) :) David Gerstein wrote: >(Does anyone HAVE one of these Woozies? Or even a more >detailed recollection of this ad or what year of the BUGLE it appeared >in? If I recall, this ad was re-printed in _The Oz Scrapbook_. I can get it out of the library and check... A question: Are there other woozies out there, or as with Tigger, is *THE* Woozy the "only one"? I just had another thought...If Woozies have square beehives, does that mean that they only eat bees that make their nests in bottomless square boxes invented by the White Knight? :) :) A MODEST ANNOUNCEMENT: I am pleased to announce that I now have a web page!!! So far, it is very rudimentary, but it does have the current version of the Ozzy Digest FAQ, and links to Eric's, Tyler's and Bill Wright's sites. I would appreciate it if folks would log on to the site and "beta test" it to make sure it's working. I would also like feedback, comments, suggestions, etc., and also please let me know how my JPEG of Mount Flathead (at the top of the FAQ page) looks...Hopefully at long last other people will get to see it! :) The URL for my page is: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47 -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 21, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 00:00:48 -0700 (MST) From: Ozma Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 I kind of enjoy the headers--seeing who all is on your list--but remembering the talk about newsgroups: you know, you can do a bcc: at the top and then the header won't appear. But personally I would miss it. Especially since I couldn't even do a "review list" and see who is on. Or, *in time*, I think you could have a list here to which only you could post. Oh! Our Oz pages just got translated into German! I haven't even been to look yet--I just got the message. ------------- Sandy Andrews ozma@asu.edu ====================================================================== ate: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:31:04 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 David Gerstein - Jane once sent me a reprint of the Woozy cutout (after I designed a similar one for "the Oz Gazette"). I've never asked her where it came from, but it is absolutely brown. However, I always think of the Woozy as blue. Maybe Neill thought brown because that is a typical color for leather, and the Woozy is made of leather (or some leathery sustance)? Aaron - the Strand bookstore is an amazing place. I spent a whole day there this summer, and mailed myself a boxful of goodies - including "The Wizard of Oz" with the Charles Santore illustrations which I got for about six dollars. Highly recommended for all bibliophiles visiting New-York. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Cat (c) by Felix Lee ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:26:19 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 Tyler Jones: << According to _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_, the Wizard never went to Teenty-Weent. He bought them from a Sailor in Los Angeles, who was the one who actually went there. >> Thanks! -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?" < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:08:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Woozy of Oz 1) On the Woozy eating bunny rabbits: I wasn't aware of him being THAT perverse... 2) Dave, I believe Baum made it clear in The Patchwork Girl of Oz that there was only one woozy, and I am not aware of anyone applying the term to any other creature. Even in Adelmanian Oz, the Woozy's (nonhuman) sister is refered to as the Queasy, and if wooziform creatures show up, they'll probably be called blockheads. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:43:34 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Woozy Ad. Dave H. & David G. : On page 149 of the Oz Scrapbook is a reprint of an ad for the film, "Patchwork Girl of Oz", not the toy. It shows a picture of the Woozy, and says; THE WOOZY in the "Patchwork Girl of Oz" Beast is coming to this town, Has no hair and it's color's brown. I The Woozy is a funny beast, With most peculiar habits, He lives on unfermented yeast And little Easter rabbits. A Cubist artist's wildest dream, Could picture nothing rarer, The Woozy is a cubist scream, For nothing could be squarer. II This is the Woozy from Woozy town, He has no hair and his skin is brown. His eyes are filled with a cheerful stare, To be a Woozy you must be SQUARE. III The Woozy soon his ears will flap, Upon your radiator cap, And there he sings his little ode, "Be square and give me half the road." IV The Woozy opens his cubist mouth, And has the people "going south", But though he's ludicrous, beware, The Woozy's always On the Square. MEET THE WOOZY AT THE (Theatre and Date) Dick Randolph (DIXNAM@ aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:10:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 > Anthony - nice to have you aboard the graphic novels have been discussed > here a couple of times and are generally liked by all unlike some of the > other Oz comics have you noticed I'm trying to write with no periods like > you? :-) > > Gili good for you typing like this provides free flowing thought a constant stream of images good for the poet and the writer the message and content are more important then the structure hugs nathony van pyre > > We have discussed the comics before, of course, and I have quite a section > on them in my FAQ. And many of us on this list know Eric Shanower, who > wrote and drew the graphic novels and is half of the team responsible for > "Oz Story" magazine. send me your faq please > ====================================================================== > Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 10:29:08 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > > 1) Stephen, what? Is Tales of Magic Land III out already? If so, I'll > have to ILL it then... > > 2) Mark, if you have digital copies of the last five Thompson books, we > would certainly appreciate those. Though digital versions of the entire > FF are supposed to exist, only Baumian material has been put online so far. personal email with info on both these would be appreciated hugs anthony van p yre > > Mark Anthony: > I can't remember any mention of the Wizard mentioning that he commissioned > the roads to be built. just anthony please or anthony van pyre > > ====================================================================== > Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:40:41 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Handy Mandy in Oz and The Blue Emperor of Oz > > I was at the Strand Bookstore here in New York (828 Broadway (at 12th > Street)) today, and I managed to get copies of Handy Mandy in Oz and > Captain Salt in Oz--put out by Books of Wonder, no less--for $6.50 each. > For everyone else in the NY area: they also had one more copy of each > there, the BOW edition of Tik-Tok of Oz (simply beautiful), The Sea > Fairies, Mother Goose in Prose, Del Ray paperback editions of various Baum > books, and, of course, the omipresent The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. B send me personal email please if you would maybe pick up some of these and send the m to me hugs anthony van pyre also on the yello brick road discussion correct me if im wrong but dont all roads on the yellow brick road lead to the emerald city? wjhat i mean is doesnt the yellow brick road really start at the emerald city and branch out all over oz from there?? well according to the lost king of oz teh wizard built the emerald city if all i wrote above is true then wouldnt that lead creadence that the wizard commissioned the road to be built?? hugs nathony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:32:52 -0700 From: steller Subject: Ozzy things Aaron: A quote from M. Laumer's "The Woozy's Tricky Beginning": Dementia is speaking, "What should I run into one day but a great big deilghtful-looking teddy bear (who as I learned later, lived in the forest under the name of Edward Behr). And hear this! He was lying on his tummy with his chin in his paws, looking up adoringly at a bright blue box-shaped Munchkin beehive!" So you see, the Woozy is descended (according to Laumer, at least) from the most famous of bears, Winnie the Pooh. By the way this would put the Woozy's origin long after the days of Hieragargo. Aaron and everyone: No, _Tales of Magic Land_ is not yet published, it is the project that Peter Blystone is working on. I guess I will have to call him and ask how it is coming. He had been unhappy with the sales of _Tales of Magic Land I_. Everybody! If you want to see _Tales of Magic Land III_ published, go out and bvuy copies of _Tales of Magic Land I and II_!!! ILLing is all very well and good, but it doesn't pay for publishing costs. Tyler: I am perfectly aware that Thompson named the Good Witch of the North Tattypoo in _Giant Horse_. She also named the Soldier with the Green Whiskers Wantowin Battles in _Ozoplaning. I personally, (and this is just personal) never liked the name Tattypoo. It lacks the dignity of Glinda; it is *cutesy* and non-Baumian. I also talked to Fred Meyer this weekend. He is out of the hospital and is in a nursing home for awhile. He does sound much better. Steve T. Woozy Model: The 1913 (?) model of the Woozy that could be cut out and glued together was reprinted as a back cover of a Baum Bugle. I can look up the issue when I get home. One year Susan Hall provided copies of it at a Quadling Convention so I was able to cup it out and assemble it without harming a Bugle. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:45:20 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digests, 5-18 & 19 Danny Wall wrote: <> In a world where (many) animals are intelligent and civilized, I'd say the Kings of Foxville and Dunkiton (and other like the Lonesome Duck) are just like human magic-users... they've learned enough magic to perform it well. Eric Gjovaag wrote: << Baum mentions him in "The Marvelous Land of Oz," and Neill even illustrated his hand. But he doesn't actually appear, of course.>> Hmm...I'd almost forgotten him. But that does seem to show that WICKED (which I still haven't read) wasn't completely off the mark in postulating pre-Wogglebug schools in Oz. <> I never knew till now that Neill DID make him brown (never having read an edition with the color plates), so I always thought of him as being blue, as Baum described him. Neill apparently took some time to get the Woozy right; Baum was especially critical of one illustration that made him look as if he was made of wood, which Baum specifically denied. Very likely it was that same illustration that made Thompson have Dorothy assert in WISHING HORSE, quite inaccurately, that the Woozy (like the Sawhorse) WAS made of wood. Steve Teller wrote: <> Against everyone, or against witches? It does hurt a lot of the suspense of the earlier books if Dorothy, in retrospect, was always protected from harm (a la Prince Inga with his Pink Pearl), though it might perhaps have been working in mysterious ways...e.g., enabling her to avoid being transformed by the Nome King in OZMA by meeting his challenge of finding an actual figure (Evring) to disenchant. Anthony Van Pyre wrote: < anyway id say get the graphic novels from yoru local comic shop well worth the price great ozzy feel to them also there is now oz squad put out and just oz both of which kick butt>> There has been talk about the Oz comics in the past (especially the graphic novels by Eric Shanower, now one of the best Oz illustrators, and occasional writers, in the new books). I'm not sure something that "kicks butt" is exactly what all of us are looking for in an Oz book, though. Badger wrote: <), and that he'd not returned to the magical realms prior to this visit (c-A) where would he have hidden them prior to his departure in WoZ?>> The same place he hid them in DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD-- in his hat! (Or his omnipresent black bag; surely he wouldn't have set off on a long trip from a place he'd lived for many years without some luggage!). And where better for an island "where everything is small" to be located than the Land of Oz? Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <> But most of his books are available here if you know where to look. EMIL AND THE DETECTIVES is probably the most popular here (as I've heard it was in Germany); it was a Scholastic book selection (where I first read it) and also adapted into a Disney movie. (What's interesting is that his little-known-here--but still translated at one time--sequel, EMIL AND THE THREE TWINS, was centered around a movie being made about the first book, long before Disney actually did so. I've heard there been a German movie of it earlier, but I can't confirm it.) Disney adapted at least one other Kastner novel: LOTTIE AND LISA was adapted into the Hayley Mills comedy THE PARENT TRAP. Tyler Jones wrote: <> And possibly only animals and people, at that--and that only if they touch it. In HUNGRY TIGER the vegetable man, Carter Green, ran across it pushing Betsy Bobbin in a wheelbarrow. Betsy could be explained since she didn't make physical contact (like the sandboat party in THE ROAD TO OZ, or the numerous groups that used the Magic Carpet), but Carter definitely did. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:32:54 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 David G.: Following Dave's pointer, I located the ad in question. It's not an ad for a toy at all, but for the Oz Film Company film of "The Patchwork Girl of Oz". It's kind of long to re-type here, but it does call the woozy brown in two places. Of course, "Patchwork Girl" was in black and white, so who's to say otherwise? Oh, and the ad is on page 149 of "The Oz Scrapbook". -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:22:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 Nox/Boz: Aaron...oy! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:32:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Aaron: Am I seeing things, or did you send the same post two days in a row? Am I seeing things, or did you send the same post two days in a row? ********** SPOILER FOR BLUE EMPEROR AND HANDY MANDY ********** Aaron: No, the Ox and "OX"-roar (hahahahahahaha) are not the same person. The Ox has been around for a while and Ozroar Boz, father of Pastoria (although NOT the same Ozroar that we meet in _Lurline and the White Ravens_, according the HACC theory) was enchanted and imprisoned by Mombi. He was released in _Blue Emperor_ in 1966. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Speaking of Henry Blossom, the author of _The Blue Emperor of Oz_, someone mentioned that he is still alive while telling us the sad news of his wifes passing on. Does anybody have his address? (electronic or snail). Let me add my thanks to Aaron's for Peter Glassman's reprinting of _Captain Salt_. It is my all-time favorite FF title, although Baum's _Ozma_ comes close. On the Woozy: As far as we know, there is only one. Ojo had this discussion in _Patchwork Girl_, mentioning that the sign said "Beware THE Woozy", not A woozy. However, if Aarons theory is correct, that the Woozy is a magical construction, then there cold be any number of them all over Fairyland that we have simply not seen before. On Dave's page: It is brand new and I was finally able to clip the JPEG of Mount Flathead. It is beautiful! Check it out now! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:13:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 > From: Avigail Bar-hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-19-96 > > Eric - I meant that TikTok was standing near the entrance of the exhibit > FROM THE OUTSIDE. He wasn't actually included in the exhibit! I figured it was something like that. But the initial mental picture... > From: David A Gerstein > Subject: Woozy: Brown vs. blue > [the Woozy as advertising gimmick talk deleted] > (Does anyone HAVE one of these Woozies? Or even a more > detailed recollection of this ad or what year of the BUGLE it appeared > in? As I recall the toy Woozy looked very like the 'real' one, not > really that hard to do when your inspiration looks like it does!) I'm not exactly sure if this is what we're talking about, but there was a cut-out advertisement that forms a rocking Woozy toy when properly assembled, and it was reprinted on the back cover of the Autumn 1971 "Bugle." Hmm, if I get a color copy made on cardstock... > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > > 3) Secondary reason to discount evidence from Dorothy of Oz: Would the > Wicked Witch of the East appreciate the Wizard and the Good Witch of the > North carrying on a building project in HER territory? I think not... Of course she wouldn't. But the question is, what could she DO about it? > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Eric: > It is true that I have at times been verbose in my explanation of the HACC, > but when the two-week deadline is up, any explanation/defense of it will > appear on my web page. But what about those who don't have web access? (I've got to handle this myself this summer with my FAQ.) > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Handy Mandy in Oz and The Blue Emperor of Oz > > ***WARNING: ENTERING HYPOTHETICAL SPOILER MODE*** > I now suspect that The Royal Ox is indeed the > transformation of Ozroar Boz, but not being able to obtain the needed > book to find out, I ask if my guess is correct, or whether it's just a > curious but wrong hypothesis, like one I sent to Eric before I read Queen > Ann in Oz that, based on comments he had made, the Shaggy Man was the > lost king of Oogaboo. > ***EXIT HYPOTHETICAL SPOILER MODE*** Well, you're now 0-for-2. First of, Ozroar was NEVER called Ozroar Boz in "Blue Emperor," this is something tacked on by others here. Second, read "Handy Mandy" before making any assumptions about Boz. Third, no, Ozroar is not enchanted in the form of an ox. > Also: Before I forget, thank you Peter for reprinting Handy Mandy in Oz > and Captain Salt in Oz. Of course The International Wizard of Oz Club beat him to this a number of years ago... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > David Gerstein wrote: > >(Does anyone HAVE one of these Woozies? Or even a more > >detailed recollection of this ad or what year of the BUGLE it appeared > >in? > > If I recall, this ad was re-printed in _The Oz Scrapbook_. I can get it out > of the library and check... Hang about, I'll check my copy. Ah, here, on page 149, is a "Meet the Woozy" advertisement for the silent film version of "The Patchwork Girl of Oz." Perhaps this is what's being recalled? It has a four stanza poem, and the second one is, indeed: "This is the Woozy from Woozy town. He has no hair and his skin is brown. His eyes are filled with a cheerful stare. To be a Woozy you must be SQUARE." There, I guess that settles things. > A MODEST ANNOUNCEMENT: > I am pleased to announce that I now have a web page!!! So far, it is > very rudimentary, but it does have the current version of the Ozzy Digest > FAQ, and links to Eric's, Tyler's and Bill Wright's sites. I would appreciate > it if folks would log on to the site and "beta test" it to make sure it's > working. I would also like feedback, comments, suggestions, etc., and also > please let me know how my JPEG of Mount Flathead (at the top of the FAQ page) > looks...Hopefully at long last other people will get to see it! :) > > The URL for my page is: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47 HUZZAH!! I shall link it to my page ASAP, and maybe even check it out sooner. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 21-May-96 00:05:38 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things STEVE T.: >I personally, (and this >is just personal) never liked the name Tattypoo. It lacks the dignity of >Glinda; it is *cutesy* and non-Baumian. I agree, and that's why I embrace the name "Locasta"...at least it was Baum who invented it... ONE ADDTIONAL OBSERVATION ABOUT THE WOOZY: The Woozy is by far the easiest Oz character to render in a 3D modeling program. :) :) :) TYLER: >Aaron: >Am I seeing things, or did you send the same post two days in a row? Sorry, *MY* mistake... :) >On Dave's page: >It is brand new and I was finally able to clip the JPEG of Mount Flathead. >It is beautiful! Check it out now! :-) Thanks for your comment! :) NATE BARLOW: I just want to take a moment to say _au revoir_ ( as opposed to farewell :) ) to Ozzy Digest member and good friend of the Oz community Nate Barlow, who has just graduated, but the bad news is he is losing his school internet account. :( Hopefully he will be back online soon...but until then, we'll miss you Nate! FINAL MESSAGE: I realize that this is not all the Digest messages I received today, but it is 1:00 AM, and I got to get to bed! :) Your messages *WILL* be in tomorrow's Digest! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 22, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:04:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Seven Day Magic ***WARNING: SPOILER FOR SEVEN DAY MAGIC*** Today I recieved Edward Eager's Seven Day Magic. It contains what is frankly the wierdest version of the Wizard and how he came to Oz short of that of Wicked. It begins with some children checking a wish-granting book from the library. One of the children makes an ill-chosen witch and is carried off by a dragon which comes out of the room of a retired Vaudville magician. After talking to the magician, whose magic has not been working lately, another wish is made, resulting in the entire house flying to the land where the dragon lives, much to the consternation of the magician's landlady. Informed by the local peasants that the dragon will be eating the captured child at noon, which is only a few minutes away-- Kabumpo: DON'T GIVE EVERYTHING AWAY, OR ELSE! Alright, alright, but you can take it for granted that the magician becomes ruler of the land, which they name after him: Oswaldoland. While this story is definitely fun, to shove it into the general Oz universe requires the Wizard to have lied about his past, even after he was debunked and on his return trip to Oz. Seeing as no one closer to the FF holds by this, I assume that this book will NOT get into the HACC, and= so it will remain in the HI/RCC, now dated at 1868. ***END SPOILER*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:21:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Ah Ha! A first. Dave has censored something I wrote. Wasn't clear why? What do you have against e. e. cummings? Regarding the ad about the Woozy, see p.149 of The Oz Scrapbook. For those who are not ILLers - THE WOOZY in the "Patchwork Girl of Oz" Beast is coming to this town Has no hair and it's color's brown. The Woozy is a funny beast With most peculiar habits. He lives on unfermented yeast, And little Easter rabbits. A Cubist artist's wildest dream, Could picture nothing rarer. The Woozy is a cubist scream, For nothing could be squarer. This is the Woozy from Woozy town, He has no hair and his skin is brown. His eyes are filled with a cheerful stare, To be a Woozy you must be SQUARE. The Woozy soon his ears will flap, Upon your radiator cap. And there he sings his little ode, "Be square and give me half the road." The Woozy opens his cubist mouth, And has the people "going south." But though he's luudicrous, beware, The Woozy's always On the Square. MEET THE WOOZY AT THE - Theatre and Date "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" was the first Oz feature film about Oz made by Baum and it was reportedly a flop. It had to be better than this poem. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:16:34 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: posts I inadvertantly lost three digesst before I had time to read them, but did want to let readers know that the Baum family still have toy Wozzies that were created in conjunction with the Oz film manufacturing company. Next time anyone talks to Bob Baum, remember to ask him if those Woozys are blue or brown! Ozma recalled having boxes and boxes of them; so many in fact, that (soft hearted readers, read no further) they burned most of them in the fireplace. And the "ailing Fred Meyer" has been Club secretary and full-time Club volunteer for the International Wizard of Oz Club since 1961. He was instrumental in getting it started. Those of us responsible for various aspects of Club administration today are tackling the task of filling his shoes as he recuperates from serious spinal problems. Since Fred was the first person some Club members ever felt they knew -- his remarkably long and knowledged-packed letters arrived regularly for new members -- lots of people are especially concerned about him. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 05:32:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Woozy of Oz, take 2 1) Distress about the some of the things claimed about him on this Digest, my informant, the Woozy , asked me to post the following message: --- I am dark blue. I am not made of leather or wood; I just have very thick skin. I didn't get along well with either Thompson or Neill. I don't eat yeast or rabbits. I do have hair--the three strands on my tail. My ears do not flap at all, being holes in the side of my head. And this thing about the bear and the beehive is so perverse that I'm having Kabumpo step on Aaron the next time he even THINKs about incorporating it into The Woozy of Oz. Such a thing wouldn't work, even in Mo. And while in theory someone could duplicate the process that Hiergargo the Magician used to create me, he or she would have to duplicate the spells incorporated into my being as well, but since the papers they were written on disappeared with the rest of my family after my father met his tragic end, that is not likely any time in the near future. And that was by far the worst poetry about me I've ever heard. Gwomokolotolint the Woozy --- 2) Mark, see http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/books.htm to get to the texts of Baumian Oz books (and other Baum books). Also: The Wizard was clearly not on good terms with the Wicked Witches of the East and West. That goes double for the Wicked Witch of the West, who used the flying monkeys to drive him out of the Winkie country. Therefore he certainly would not want to encourage any building project that increased connects between himself and the Wicked Witches. The roads, of course, could have been already in existence at the time of the building of the Emerald City; there certainly was something on the site beforehand. 3) On lousy Thompsonian names: For the prize of worst Thompsonian name, I nominate the nickname she gave the Guardian of the Gate: Guardy, which certainly encourages the use of the Volkovian and much more decent sounding Faramont. 4) Rich, in Wicked Dr. Nikidik TAUGHT in a pre-Wogglebug school (specifically the University of Spiz). Also: Uh, if I remember correctly, Carter's feet didn't touch the desert. He was wearing quick sandals. 5) Eric, imagine this: Gingemma: Alright, you slobs! This pinheaded wizard sent in a flock of auks two days ago with a bunch of bricks to lay down this road here. This is certainly a prelude to invasion, so I want all of you to get to work tearing up this here road before that wicked wizard gets his army here. You're to start here in Munchkinezia and work your way down the road till you get to the Emerald County. Any questions? Slob #1: What do we do with the bricks? Gingemma: Put them into piles about three feet high. When you're done with tearing up the road, we'll ship the bricks over to Winkieland for my sister to make a summer castle out of. Any more questions? Good. Now get to work! Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:53:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-96 > From: Ozma > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 > > Oh! Our Oz pages just got translated into German! I haven't even been to > look yet--I just got the message. What Oz pages are these, then? > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Woozy of Oz > > 1) On the Woozy eating bunny rabbits: I wasn't aware of him being THAT > perverse... Where did THIS idea come from??? > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-20-96 > > good for you typing like this provides free flowing thought a constant > stream of images good for the poet and the writer the message and content > are more important then the structure hugs nathony van pyre And we all thought Aaron's lack of apostrophes was hard to read... > send me your faq please I'm afraid that's not possible at this time, as right now it's only available through my World Wide Web page. But this summer I hope to set up a text version that I can put on ftp sites, send out to those who ask, etc., so that those without Web access can read it. > send me personal email please if you would maybe pick up some of these and > send the m to me hugs anthony van pyre Books of Wonder will gladly send you any of their books, they are also a mail order house. Give them a call at 1-800-345-6665 and ask to be put on the mailing list for "The Oz Collector," their catalog of all kinds of Oz goodies. > From: steller > Subject: Ozzy things > > Aaron and everyone: No, _Tales of Magic Land_ is not yet published, it > is the project that Peter Blystone is working on. I guess I will have to > call him and ask how it is coming. He had been unhappy with the sales of > _Tales of Magic Land I_. Everybody! If you want to see _Tales of Magic > Land III_ published, go out and bvuy copies of _Tales of Magic Land I and > II_!!! ILLing is all very well and good, but it doesn't pay for > publishing costs. I've already done MY part, buying both of the first two volumes... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > STEVE T.: > >I personally, (and this > >is just personal) never liked the name Tattypoo. It lacks the dignity of > >Glinda; it is *cutesy* and non-Baumian. > > I agree, and that's why I embrace the name "Locasta"...at least it was Baum > who invented it... Are we sure it was Baum who created this name, and not Julian Mitchell? Does anybody know how much of that play was Baum's and how much Mitchell's? --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 13:22:14 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Now I'M feeling Woozy... Hi again! Both Digests since the last time seem to be focusing on the Woozy...his origin, his color, his possible uniqueness... Tyler Jones wrote: <> I like that idea (though your other one about dimensional warps also has something to recommend it). A few towns like Flutterbudget Center and Rigmarole Town specifically have such an origin. The places ruled by animals seem to be, again, the result of intelligent, talking animals wanting to have places of their own (e.g. Bunnybury and Catty Corners inside Oz, Foxville and Dunkiton and the monkey city in Mo outside). Possibly waves of stray magic have brought a few originally inanimate objects to life, as in Bunbury and Illumi Nation, though others were the deliberate result of later magic users like Glinda, such as the Cuttenclips. <> Well, aside from Ojo's dubious conclusion (when we see a sign "Beware of the Dog," do we assume this is the only dog in the world?), Baum the omniscient narrator specifically tells us the "this is the only Woozy that has ever lived, either in Oz or out of it." I'm inclined to go along with that. Steve Teller wrote: <> LONG after! In fact, even after the events of PATCHWORK GIRL (1914), since Pooh was said to be a year younger than Christopher Robin in THE HOUSE AT POOH CORNER. Christopher wasn't born until 1920 (he died earlier this year, a couple of days before P.L. Travers and several months before Garth Williams...it's been a sad year for devotees of classic children's literature). Unless, of course, we rationalize it by saying the fairies somehow travelled through time... Eleanor Kennedy wrote: <> Probably because whoever wrote the poem couldn't come up with a word to rhyme with "blue." Even Superman's blue costume was actually brown in the black and white serials and TV episodes (which meant a new one had to be made when the 1950's TV show switched to color), but that wasn't reflected in any of the merchandise. Maybe the stuffed Woozy was brown, but I still go along with Baum that the real Woozy was blue! Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> I've learned to be patient, and not send the message twice if it doesn't get in...just as the message I sent Sunday wasn't in yesterday's Digest, but was in today's. You put a lot of work into getting this Digest together, and we all appreciate your efforts and realize there will be occasional delays. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:50:49 -0700 From: steller Subject: Ozzy Things I just received my copy of March Laumer's _A Farewell to Oz_ and have been busy reading it. I do not consider it a spoiler to say the basic idea of the book (which is *The Oz Book for 2000*) is Ozma's bringing together and to Oz for the centenary of Dorothy's first arrival in Oz, all the people who had been associated with Oz, including March Laumer. There in Oz there are many discussions about the facts in the books, with Ruth Plumley Thompson and L. Frank Baum discussing (with Mr. Laumer, Ozma and others) how they came to write what they did in the books. There is no suggestion that the books are not totally historical. A second plot concerns two contemporary children (from the year 2000) whose idea of Oz has been shaped by the 1939 film and who believe the books are the inaccurate versions. _A Farewell to Oz_ follows on Laumer's earlier book, _The Ten Woodmen of Oz_, and someone not familiar with that book may not be completely clear about what is going on. Laumer has footnote citations to many books, including many of his own, even including books that (at least to my knowledge have never been published--perhaps not even written, e.g. _Jim the Cab Horse in Oz_. The book also lists two co-authors of Laumer: Gerald Langa and Anita McGrew. Laumer wrote that he has another book in the works which he hopes to distribute before he returns to Sweden this Summer. It is a double volume of two novelettes: _The Cloud King of Oz_ and _Beenie in Oz_. ***********Spoiler for _Ten Woodmen_ In _The Ten Woodmen of Oz the Oz Book for 1999_, the *Tin* Woodman is is suffering from EYDS (an obvious homophone of AIDS) caused by pollution. Ozma sends Dorothy (made to look like Judy Garland in 1939) accompanied by ten woodmen from various parts of Oz to our world to try to do something about the problem. This does not succeed. Ozma discovers a multitude of people trying to get into Oz, but prevented by Glinda's barrier. Filled with compassion, she decides to allow everyone in, and in order to make room she and Glinda shrink everyone in Oz to 100th of their original size, thus making Oz big enough to accomodate everyone. The consequences of this end that book and are continued in _A Farewell_. **************End of Spoiler******************** I have before me the Autumn 1971 _Baum Bugle. On the back cover is a reproduction of a *cut out advertisement* for "The Patchwork Girl of Oz (1913)." It is a Rocking Woozy. It is definitely brown. On the back of the Woozy are the words *Meet the Woozy* and on the two rockers we read: *Read all about him in the new Baum Book "THE PATCHWORK GIRL of OZ"* and *He's a BLOCKHEAD = but he's always SQUARE!* The book and the film both came out in 1913. Concerning the Good Witch's kiss. Since it is not mentioned again before _Wishing Horse_ it really does not remove suspense in books in which Dorothy is in danger. It is something working behind the scenes--perhaps very subtilely (spelling intentional). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 14:33:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Anthony: Actually, according to _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_, the Wizard built the city and palace, or at least bossed the job. In _Lost King_, Pajuka confirms that there was a castle there before the Wizard arrives, but that what the Wizard built was far larger and more impressive. Clearly, there must have been SOMETHING there before, as Pastoria ruled there for a short time and Ozma mentions that the Forbidden Fountain was used in ancient times. MOPPeT is that befor the time of the Wizard, the green area contained several small villages and a small castle in the center. The Wizard decided to combine all these into one large city in the center. Even in Oz, it is a little hard to build a city and have 50,000 people show up out of nowhere to live there. I maintain my doubts that the Wizard was involved in the construction of the YBR's, since it would be detrimental to the whole purpose of building the Emerald City and palace, which was to hide from the Wicked Witches. I believe that Pastoria or some previous king had them built. According to _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, The Wicked Witch of the East build the one in the Munchkin country by using the silver shoes. Steve Teller: I am with your opinion 100%: "Tattypoo" is just to cutesy a name for the powerful Good Witch of the North. Of course, this person was not "really" the Good Witch, at least by original inclination. Even if you do not accept Dave's premise of Locasta (and there is some indirect evidence to support it in the FF), she was originally Queen Orin and before Mombi's transformation, there WAS no Good Witch of the North! Rich: There MUST have been some sort of school system before the Wogglebug arrived on the scene, since he "studied" at Nowitalls one-room schoolhouse, without the knowledge of that esteemed scholar, of course. :-) The kiss on Dorothy's forehead is beginning to sound like Binks talent in the XANTH series... Eric: For those who have no web access, "Let them eat FTP!" Actually, I can't say that, since I do not have a FTP site, but the web is the only place I can post stuff. I guess I can mail the files to people who request it. We will miss Nate, but hopefully, he will get a job soon and get back on the Net. He created THE OZIAN TIMES, the noble predecessor of the Ozzy digest. For those interested, I still have them all somewhere... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 01:06:43 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-96 Hi Digest! Sandy A.: what do you meant translated into German? Which Oz pages, the Digest? Share! Thank you Dick, Eric, Eleanor for checking "The Oz Scrapbook" for us. I wonder who wrote the poem? Obviously someone who didn't think highly of cubism. SJT - of course, Winnie the Pooh is Edward BEAR, not BEHR. Also know by the name he lived under, Trespassers Will (or am I imagining that part?) So this is not necessarily the same bear we know and love - but a Laumerian cousin of his. Eric - true, "Emil and the Detectives" and "Lottie and Lisa" are available in English. Maybe even "The Flying Classroom". But have you ever heard of (I'm venturing to translate from Hebrew): "The Little Man"? "The 35th of May, or Danny's Adventures on the South Seas"? "Tiny and Anton"? Good books. Ciao! Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:52:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz on PBS (for the Digest) My local PBS station, for which I help raise money for during their "Doctor Who" pledge drives, recently got word of "The Wizard of Oz in Concert." Knowing of my interest in Oz, they asked about it, and I may try to raise interest among the Oogaboos for an Oz night at the station. So, the question is, what ELSE to show? Sure, "In Concert" will be the biggy, but lots of other Oz programs have been shown as well -- not all of which I can remember the names of! So, if some of you can help provide me with some titles... * The 1985 special, partly advertising "Return to Oz," which the first two-thirds was a nice overview of the Oz phenomenon. * The Angela Lansbury thing CBS just showed. I've seen it separately on our other local PBS station before. * And does anyone remember what year the TV version of Aljean Harmetz's "The Making of 'The Wizard of Oz'" came out? I know it was quite some time after the book, maybe the early 80's, and Jack Haley had passed away by that point. Also, does anyone know if the BBC documentary "In Search of Oz" is available to PBS stations? Or does A&E have the American rights to that one sewn up? --Eric "And any ideas for premiums/thank you gifts?" Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 22:48:11 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-96 > 3) Secondary reason to discount evidence from Dorothy of Oz: Would the > Wicked Witch of the East appreciate the Wizard and the Good Witch of the > North carrying on a building project in HER territory? I think not... Of course she wouldn't. But the question is, what could she DO about it? To Tyler: WW of the E: Why, the same thing I did to Nimmee Amee's boyfriends! Ny-YAAAAH-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaa! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:52:49 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-96 Anthony Van Pyre > I was at the Strand Bookstore here in New York (828 Broadway (at 12th > Street)) today, and I managed to get copies of Handy Mandy in Oz and > Captain Salt in Oz--put out by Books of Wonder, no less--for $6.50 each. > For everyone else in the NY area: they also had one more copy of each > there, the BOW edition of Tik-Tok of Oz (simply beautiful), and The Sea > Fairies. I hate to tell you this, but it is almost certain that the books you bought were stolen. Though the Strand Bookstore is a wonderful source for used and second hand books, it is also well known to New York's book theft communtity (and, yes, there are people who earn their living stealing books out of bookstores and reselling them) that the Strand buys so many books from so many people that it is a very easy place to sell stolen books without having any questions asked. Since the two books you mentioned were just issued last month, it's very doubtful that anyone who bought them would have sold them to the Strand for the dollar or two they would have paid rather than returning them to us for full retail value. After all, our store is only a dozen blocks away. Please don't feel bad about this. After all, theft is part of running a retail store in New York. But please don't encourage others to buy more stolen books. This will only encourage the book theif when he sees that the Strand has sold them. - Peter Glassman Books of Wonder ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 19:59:49 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-96 Tyler Jones: > Let me add my thanks to Aaron's for Peter Glassman's reprinting of > _Captain Salt_. It is my all-time favorite FF title, although Baum's _Ozma_ > comes close. Thanks for the kind words, Tyler, but I am not the only one responsible for the Books of Wonder publications and so should not receive all the acolades. Books of Wonder is a company comprised over a dozen hard-working, dedicated book lovers who are commited to preserving the best in children's literature from the past and promoting the finest new children's books being created today. They all deserve a part of your kind words and I'll be sure to pass it along to them. Thanks again! - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 21-May-96 21:46:22 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BEAR: >Ah Ha! A first. Dave has censored something I wrote. Wasn't clear why? I e-mailed Bear privately telling him why. :) Don't feel though, folks, that I'm out to censor...I'll only do it *VERY RARELY* -- This is the *first time* I've edited someone's message in the nearly six months ( Lurline, has it been *THAT* long? :) ) since the Digest got started, and I'm not likely to do it again for *at least* another six months... :) AARON: > ... the Woozy , asked >me to post the following message... *MY* infromants the Three Adepts at Sorcery asked me to post *this* for them: ----- Didn't you guys on Dave's Digest establish that Gwomokolotolint is *NOT* the Woozy but someone else? -- Auxannah, Augnetah & Audirfah (formerly Aurah, Audah & Aujah) The Adepts at Sorcery of Oz ----- ERIC: >>From: Ozma >> >>Oh! Our Oz pages just got translated into German! ... > >What Oz pages are these, then? http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/oz/ (Check it out folks! It's got lots of good stuff by young Oz fans!) >Are we sure it was Baum who created this name [Locasta]...? And out of curiosity does anyone know where it came from? It sounds so close to *two* (un-Ozzy and un-Locasta-like) Latin names: Jocasta (Oedipus' wife AND mum) and Locusta (both the Locust genus and an infamous Roman toxicologist). GILI: >SJT - of course, Winnie the Pooh is Edward BEAR, not BEHR. Also know by >the name he lived under, Trespassers Will (or am I imagining that part?) Pooh lives under the name "Mr. Sanders"; It's Piglet who has the honored ancestor "Trespassers Will" (short for "Trespassers William"). -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 23, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:25:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 i used to get books of wonder catalogs but they quit sendign them after the 4rth one also someone please translate some terms used here ff im sure deals with baums books but what is this ill and mopppet stuff please send a list of commmonly used terms on here thannk hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:01:00 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 Aaron - didn't we agree that Gwomokolowhatever is NOT the woozy's name, but Laumer's name for an owl who was talking to the Woozy? Sigh. You've all already written everything I wanted to write. I'll have to find some other way to waste my time today. I'd just like to repeat, once again for all of you, I LOVE the digest. When I don't get to read it on a certain day, I suffer withdrawal symptoms. Bye! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 04:58:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Seven Day Magic > > [synopsis deleted] > While this story is definitely fun, to shove it into the general Oz > universe requires the Wizard to have lied about his past, even after he > was debunked and on his return trip to Oz. Seeing as no one closer to the > FF holds by this, I assume that this book will NOT get into the HACC, and > so it will remain in the HI/RCC, now dated at 1868. Whoever said it was an Oz book, and thus needed to be included in the HACC or HI/RCC? Goodness gracious, if we were to include EVERY book that ever mentions or implies a connection to Oz, both documents would be so massively huge that they'd take over the entire Internet... > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Woozy of Oz, take 2 > > 2) Mark, see http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/books.htm to get to the texts > of Baumian Oz books (and other Baum books). Hey, some of them are linked to my page, too, remember! > 5) Eric, imagine this: > > > [deleted for brevity's sake] Er, why is this addressed to me? I've made no comments AFAIR (as far as I recall) about the YBR's one way or the other. > From: steller > Subject: Ozzy Things > > *Read all about him in the new Baum Book "THE PATCHWORK GIRL of OZ"* and > *He's a BLOCKHEAD = but he's always SQUARE!* The book and the film both > came out in 1913. The film came out in 1914. > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-96 > > Eric - true, "Emil and the Detectives" and "Lottie and Lisa" are > available in English. Maybe even "The Flying Classroom". But have you > ever heard of (I'm venturing to translate from Hebrew): "The Little Man"? > "The 35th of May, or Danny's Adventures on the South Seas"? "Tiny and > Anton"? Good books. Again, why is this addressed to me? I've made no comments on any of these books. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Stolen Books of Oz 1) Eric, don't you mean that TYLER is the one with the habit of apostrophe dropping? 2) Peter, I think you're mistaking Marc for me. Also: Good thing I didn't write my name in the front cover of those books yet... How much do I owe BOW, or at the very least, do you have any suspects I should send Sharts and Blogo after? Also: You are definitely right. Please convey my thanks to the rest of BOW for the reprints. 3) Auxannah, Augnetah, Audirfah: Gwomokolotolint (at least in Adelmanian Oz) is the Woozy's name, actually a rather common name in his homeland of North Antozia. This name is not to be confused with Gwokolotokint, which is the name of an owl who used to work for Urfin Jus, to whom the Woozy denies any relationship. ****WARNING: DISCUSSION OF SPOILER**** 4) Stephen, come to think of it, Laumer's shrinking of the Ozites to accomodate more people sounds like an inversion of Heinlein's expanding Oz about 1/4 inch in each direction to accomodate 4 more people. Is it my imagination, or are the reports of what's in Laumer's books getting freakier as time goes on? ****END DISSCUSSION OF SPOILER**** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:17:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 dont we consider the books baums great grandson has done as official ie dorthy in oz?? hug anthony van py re ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:28:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest On Tales of Magic Land: I have bought the first two, and am eagerly awaiting III, hopefully within a year or two. Rich: Thanks for your interest in my two theories reagrding the possible origin of the strange and unusual kingdoms. The second theory has no evidence to support it, but I made it up as a "safety valve". Using this theory, people can have an infinite number of adventures all over Oz, including in the same area, never run into the same kingdom twice, and hve no conflict. How much Wood Would A Woozy Whittle... WHen Baum said there was only one, this was based on his current knowledge of Oz and the surrounding fairylands. He may not have known everything at the time and was probably repeating some rumors that he picked up from the Munchking Farmers who imprisoned him in the first place. Note that this is based on the "informant theory" that not everybody agrees with. Peter G: Thanks for reminding me, and of course Books of Wonder contains several dedicated people all of whom worked to publish these books. I was using the royal "I", but meant everybody. By the way, a young girl who lives in my neighborhood is interested in obtaining a copy of _The Silver Princess in Oz_. I looked in your catalog, but it is not there yet. Do you guys intend to publish it? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 11:37:44 -0700 From: steller Subject: Peter Blystone I spoke to Peter Blystone this morning for the first time in a year, and I have good news and bad news. The good news is that he has recovered completely from his double cataract surgery and can now see again. The bad news is that _Tales of Magic Land III_ is not immediately forthcoming. For those of you who do not know Peter Blystone published (at his own expense) _Tales of Magic Land I_ in 1991. This contained his translations of Volkov's _Wizard of the Emerald City_ and _Urfin Jus and his Wooden Soldiers_, and sold for the ridiculously low price of $11.95. He then published _Tales of Magic Land_ two containing _Seven Underground Kings_ and _The Fiery God of the Marrans_ in 1993, for $13.95. He had hoped that these books would pay for themselves, but the sales were less than he had hoped. They are well produced paperbound books, but unillustrated except for the color covers. _Tales of Magic Land III_ will contain the first accurate translantions to be published of _The Yellow Fog_ and _The Secret of the Deserted Castle_. However this may be a while in coming, for financial reasons. If you can afford to buy these books, do so. If you have influence in a library encourage them to do so. Peter Blystone's new address is 157 D. Arthur Kill Road, Staten Island, NY 10306-1167. End of commercial. Eric Gj: Thanks for doing your part! I finished March Laumer's _A Farewell to Oz_. It is at once cynical (about people living in the late 1990's) and sentimental. It is dedicated to March's brother Keith Laumer, who was a noted science fiction writer, who died in 1993. Parts of the book are very moving. Much of the book concerns the passage in _The Lost King of Oz_ in which Mombi is *put out*. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:38:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Dave - I am really honored to be the first to be censored. :) :) Peter Glassman - Slightly off Oz message. Since BOW is "commited to preserving the best in children's literature" is there any chance you are going to reprint Carol Kendall's great books? I have been trying to find a couple of them for decades. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:29:00 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Hello World I have just gotten back from a trip which took me all the way to Philadelphia and back, so I have several days' e-mail to respond to. Here goes: Aaron: Do you think you could leak some more details? On the Woozy song: I don't think it's good enough poetry to be canon in the first place. On where to get books: Last Monday, while passing through Washington, DC, I was at White Flint Mall. At Border Books there (a three-story behemoth; excellent selection for a new-book store) they had quite a selection of Oz books, most of them from Books of Wonder (three times thank you, Peter!), including _Runaway_, _Scalawagons_, _Handy Mandy_, _Captain Salt_, Christmas_, _Glass Cat_, _Ozma_, and even the infamous edition of _Patchwork_. Had I that kind of budget, I would have taken this opportunity to fill in quite a few holes in my collection, but as I am not yet independently wealthy I settled for getting just _Handy Mandy_, which I am sure is not stolen as I paid about twice what Aaron did. (Two twin brothers, out of contact with each other, buy the same book from the same publisher, same edition, within 24 hours of each other... <_Twilight Zone_ theme>) If I'd had the funds I would have gotten _Glass Cat_ as well. Sorry, David. David Hulan: Well, how does your apology pay my electric bill?!? Resultant lesson from all this: Really good bookstores can be found in good cities. Collorary: Charleston is a crummy town. On e-mail from Oz: FROM: Professor H. M. Wogglebug, T. E. TO: Barry Eshkol Adelman CC: SUBJ: External Communication Pursuant to complaints of violations of royal decrees of her Highness Princess Ozma of Oz, all electronic mail originating within Oz is to be terminated (the "March Laumer gossip" decree). All persons, animals, or whatnots found doing so will be forthwith be subject to all legal penalties applicable. Informants will forthwith stick to authorized limited communications only. Professor H. M. Wogglebug, T. E., acting by the command of Princess Ozma of Oz ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 23-May-96 10:21:34 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ANTHONY: >dont we consider the books baums great grandson has done as official ie >dorthy in oz?? The question of which books are "official" and which aren't is an ongoing debate on the Ozzy Digest. Read through my FAQ that I sent you -- It will explain not only the jargon on the Digest, but it also tells about the "Famous Forty" and why some think it is the only "official" Oz series (I'm not one of them by the way -- I generally think any Oz book that adheres to the original Baumian conception of Oz is "official" or at least is "historically accurate") --- Begin forwarded message --- FROM: "Adepts at Sorcery" TO: "Dave" DATE: Thursday 23-May-96 04:47:47 (OzST) SUBJ: Postings from Oz Dave -- The message that Barry posted from the Wogglebug is clearly bogus because the address doesn't have an '.oz' suffex. Ozma has not forbade us from letting you post for us in the Digest. We think the message Barry received was in fact fabricated by the same person who is claiming to be Enya on the Enya mailing list. :) On the other hand, the message MAY be legit, but may have originated in the Adelmanian universe -- We only know what's going on in our own. :) -- Auxannah, Augnetah & Audirfah (formerly Aurah, Audah & Aujah) The Adepts at Sorcery --- End forwarded message --- -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 24, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:54:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Tiktok's Dubious Story I've been looking at Ozma of Oz over lunch, and I just noticed a hole in Tiktok's story. He claims that Evoldo shut him up in the cavern and locked the door, then he threw the key into the ocean and jumped in after it. How would Tiktok know what Evoldo did after he was locked up in the cavern? Maybe Evoldo is really alive somewhere... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 11:52:09 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: RE: Ozzy posts BARRY-- So I guess e-mail from Ev, Mo, Ix, etc. is okay? Rumor has it that the long-eared Hearer from Nome-land has been a long-time Digest member, although he never says anything, just listens. . . Sometimes I wonder if Pessim (from SCARECROW) is posting sometimes under an assumed name. (Hey, is there a name for the Nome lands, anyway?) Guessing that the Shaggy Man's computer is an Apple, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:04:29 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Dave's JPEG Dave, I looked at the JPEGof Flatehead Mountain and Skeezer Lake, and it looks great. One problem: When I downloaded it and tried to open it, it would not open from either JPEGView or GIFConverter. Furthermore, attempts at copying the image and pasting it into GIFConverter only succeeded in bombing my machine. I wonder if there is a spell on this file... Also, Dave, how do you know that the message you got from the Adepts is not a fake? the ".oz" ending may not apply to the Royal Athletic College's seperate domain. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:11:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Obscure Acronyms of Oz 1) Marc, FF = the "Famous Forty", the 40 Oz books which are considered by practically all Oz fans to be cannonical. ILL = interlibrary loan, which is the least expensive way to read Oz books you don't have. It also takes about two weeks at least, and it works only if there's a library out there which has the book you want which is willing to lend it. Fortunately, the entire FF seems to be ILLable. MOPPeT = my own pet theory. Also: Just because someone is descended from L. Frank Baum doesn't mean his or her books intrinsically have any value as Oz books. Hence Roger Baum's books are not cannonical. In fact, I've severly dissed his Dorothy of Oz (and Kenneth Gage Baum's The Dinamonster of Oz as well) for serious consistency and logical problems. 2) Gili, GwomokolotoKint is the name of the owl. GwomokolotoLint is the Adelmanian name for the Woozy. 3) Eric, my criteria for any book getting into the HI/RCC are: 1) the book must not be in the HACC, and 2) the book must take place at least in part in the Oz universe (or some version thereof). As part of Seven Day Magic takes place in what is (maybe) Oz, I put it in the HI/RCC. Also: on that YBR thing, er, uh, I must have mistaken someone else's post for yours. My apologies. 4) Professor Wogglebug, what is this "March Laumer gossip decree"? The Woozy and the Queasy never told me anything about it. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 15:51:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-96 dave i read the faq which was good by the way but i would thank that baums great grandson would be considered a offical historian by lineage if you know what i mean hugs anthony vanp yre by hte way whats the word on the zips anyone want htem send me mail they are a meg each about and i got liek 10 of them ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:21:46 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-96 Tyler - "Silver Princess"can be purchased from the Oz club. Eric - Sorry, could've sworn you were the one who responded about Kastner. Barry&Aaron - so you two are twins, huh? Hmm. :-) |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 14:48:25 -0700 From: steller Subject: Gjovaag Eric: I stand (or actually sit) corrected. Of course the 1914 film of _Patchwork Girl_ came out in 1914. My blushes (which don't show up on e-mail). However, don't be so paranoid, Gili's comments on Kastner were really directed to RMorris. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:05:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-96 Woozy: I think the Boxers in SILVER PRINCESS and in WONDER CITY are related to the Woozy. Chillywalla!!!! Neill draws them as being somewhat different, but there's a noticeable "family" resemblance. It always made me wonder about the relationship when I was a kid. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 18:32:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest Anthony: Dave's FAQ contains a list of just about every acronym used on the digest. Ask him to mail it to you, or perhaps Dave will post it on his web page. Gili: Definitely agree with you on this one. I need my Ozzy Digest every day! :-) Aaron and Eric: I'm going to have to go with Eric on this one: Oz is so Universal that to include every book, tv show, movie etc. that mentions Oz would be an impossible task. IMHO, we should only include books that are specifically written to BE Oz books, and then we can discuss accuracy, etc. In defense of Eric: He has NEVER mentioned anyhting pertaining to the history of the Yellow Brick Road(s). One more time for Eric: I've noticed on the digest that people will sometimes refernce quotes and such inaccurately. This is probably due to the number of postings every day. People sometimes just get muddled. Aaron: I don't think that Laumers references are getting "freaky". It's just that as time goes by, we remember more and more arcane details of his stuff. Anthony: You can read about the "officialness" of the Oz books in Dave's FAQ and in my HACC (in about two weeks). This subject has taken the lion's share of discussion on earlier digests, but let say one quick thing: Many people consider works by Baums descendants to be, by definition, more official that other Oz books, including non-Baum titles in the Famous Forty, simply because they were written by somebody named Baum. I personally do not agree with this. Oz no longer belongs to Baum alone or the the Baum family, but to all of us who love Oz and share in its spirit. On Tales of Magic Land: I am glad to hear that Peter Blystone has recovered. I hope that many people write to him, telling him that they will willingly pay for Tales of Magic Land III. End of commercial. ********** NON OZ-RELATED PLEA FOR HELP ********** Back in 1982 (Junior High), I came across one of those stories that a "Humans now live in an underground city" motif similar to the movie Logans Run. The two main characters were a boy and girl about 11 years old. The boy had apparantly been born "Outside" and the two tried to get out of the underground city. The city was built on levels with a mythical "level 80" at the top. They were climbing levels, but I stopped reading there and could never find the book again. Does this sound familiar to anybody? I remember some side-plot devices were that nobody could read anymore and not wasting water was a major concern. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 20:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls ****SPOILERS OR AT LEAST A GROUCHY VIEW OF "GRAMPA IN OZ" ****** I am working my way through the RPT books and have toiled through what I came to think of as "Kabumpo II." I hope RPT manages to find another plot line. It did have some items of interest. p. 150 - Regarding weather in Oz - "there is no snow in Oz." p. 160 - So what are they eating - Good Grief! BEAR STEAKS! So much for the Vegan theory. P. 203 - They find all those "heads in the clouds." I know some of them. p. 245 - Here is an example of marriage in Oz. Tatters is tricked into one! p. 267 - "With the aid of a powerful radio belonging to the WOZ, she had heard the whole story Grampa had just related...." My, RPT was a little confused on the concept of radio. The CIA would really like to have a radio like this. Grampa would have had to have a transmitter for Ozma's "powerful radio" to receive. Oh well, she clearly wasn't a rocket scientist. Well, being a completist, I'm glad I read it. Hopefully she is through her learning curve and "The Lost King of Oz" will be better. I just have this image of the publisher saying, "That was a little thin Ruthy, you are really going to have to pick it up here or the series is going to end. Call me when you have something for me." Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:39:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-96 > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 > > i used to get books of wonder catalogs but they quit sendign them after > the 4rth one Did you ever buy anything from them? Because if you didn't, they would have stopped sending them to you. It does cost them money to send a catalog, why should they send them out to people who won't buy things from them? > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Stolen Books of Oz > > 1) Eric, don't you mean that TYLER is the one with the habit of > apostrophe dropping? Did I not say Tyler? I could have sworn I did. Oh, well, considering how many items attributed to me of late I didn't say, maybe we're all just getting befuddled. > 2) Peter, I think you're mistaking Marc for me. See what I mean? > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 > > dont we consider the books baums great grandson has done as official ie > dorthy in oz?? It's all up to the individual Oz fan, isn't it? > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > By the way, a young girl who lives in my neighborhood is interested in > obtaining a copy of _The Silver Princess in Oz_. I looked in your catalog, > but it is not there yet. Do you guys intend to publish it? It's already available from The International Wizard of Oz Club... > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: Hello World > > [re: Barry -- it WAS you, Barry, wasn't it? -- mentioning not buying > "Glass Cat"]: > David Hulan: Well, how does your apology pay my electric bill?!? Trust me, with Books of Wonder's royalties, he couldn't afford to pay any of his bills anyway. I sat down and figured it out once, and my share of the royalties from each paperback copy of "Queen Ann" sold came to twenty cents. I've said it before and I'll say it again: You can't get rich anymore from writing Oz books! So don't worry about taking food from David's mouth... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:36:39 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-96 Hi again! I'll be going away for the weekend, so this'll have to be my last till late Monday or Tuesday... Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <<"Emil and the Detectives" and "Lottie and Lisa" are available in English. Maybe even "The Flying Classroom". But have you ever heard of (I'm venturing to translate from Hebrew): "The Little Man"? "The 35th of May, or Danny's Adventures on the South Seas"? "Tiny and Anton"? Good books.>> "The Little Man" was translated into English as was its sequel, "The Little Man and the Big Thief." Interestingly enough, its plot centered around a movie being made of the events of the first book, just as the little-known-here "Emil and the Three Twins" involved a movie (Disney's?) of "Emil and the Detectives." Did Kastner have a special fondness for the movies, perhaps? Anthony Van Pyre wrote: <> I don't think it necessarily works that way. If "Dorothy in Oz" is canonical by virtue of being by L. Frank Baum's great- grandson, then surely so is "The Laughing Dragon of Oz," which was by Baum's son Frank J. Baum. I happen to own a copy of the latter book (inherited from the late DC Comics editor, E. Nelson Bridwell, who wrote "The Oz-Wonderland War"), and it isn't that bad--but then, it isn't that good, either. Tyler Jones wrote: <> But the Oz people often *do* run into the same kingdoms twice, especially in the later books: the Hoppers and the Horners, for instance, are mentioned several times. Probably the record-holder, Pumperdink, is perversely one of the most likely possibilities for such a theory: Thompson has used it in short stories that made no mention of Oz, including at least one taking place during a decidedly non-Ozzy winter! On the other hand, all these places *do* appear on the maps, at least the up-to-date Oz maps. (And some of them even include places outside the FF; I've got one that shows where the places in the aforementioned, non-FF "Laughing Dragon of Oz" are located. Will the next map show us the location of places in "Dorothy in Oz" or, even worse, "Return to Oz?" Steve Teller wrote: <> I hadn't even realized March and Keith were brothers, but it makes sense, especially given their style (almost Adelmanian) of naming characters. (One of Keith's novels that stands out in my mind, though I don't recall the title, centered around Thor and Loki, revealed to be aliens from space whose real names were Gralgranthor and Lokrien.) And, given the entirely uncharacteristic decision(on the part of Ozma and Dorothy) to "put Mombi out," I'm glad someone has bothered to address it in fiction! ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 23-May-96 20:54:59 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DANNY: >Rumor has it that the >long-eared Hearer from Nome-land has been a long-time Digest member, >although he never says anything, just listens. . . He puts his ear to an Internet fiber optic cable (which passes through the cavern walls in that area) and listens to the binary pulses, and then transcribes the Digest for King Kaliko. >(Hey, is there a name for the Nome lands, anyway?) Thompson named it (In _Wishing Horse_) "Nome Man's Land". We will now pause for a brief moment to allow all Digest members to groan. :) BARRY: >Dave, I looked at the JPEGof Flatehead Mountain and Skeezer Lake, and it looks >great. Thanks. :) >One problem: When I downloaded it and tried to open it, it would not >open from either JPEGView or GIFConverter. I don't get it. *NO ONE* seems to be able to view the picture from a standard JPEG viewer. Has anyone tried loading it into Adobe Photoshop (which I've never had trouble importing/exporting my JPEG's into)? Maybe my JPEG generator (which converts to JPEG from the video format the Amiga uses) writes a couple of un-kosher bytes... >Also, Dave, how do you know that the message you got from the Adepts is not a >fake? They correctly answered a question that only the Adepts know the answer to. MORE ON WOOZY PHYLOGENY: Robin wrote: >Woozy: I think the Boxers in SILVER PRINCESS and in WONDER CITY are >related to the Woozy. Chillywalla!!!! Neill draws them as being >somewhat different, but there's a noticeable "family" resemblance. Of course, all Woozimorphs are descended from the Great Cubic Picassoid, which in turn belongs to a family of creatures all morphologically based on the Five Perfect Solids of Pythagoras and Plato. Here is a cladogram of the family: The Woozy / /\ / The Queasy /\ / The Boxers /\ / Cubic Picassoid /\ / A. Cube (from _Flatland_ universe) /\ ____ / The Dodecahedron (from _The Phantom Toolbooth_) \ Polyhedromorpha :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 25, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 05:37:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-24-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Tiktok's Dubious Story > > I've been looking at Ozma of Oz over lunch, and I just noticed a hole in > Tiktok's story. He claims that Evoldo shut him up in the cavern and > locked the door, then he threw the key into the ocean and jumped in after > it. How would Tiktok know what Evoldo did after he was locked up in the > cavern? FWIW, you're not the first to wonder about this. Fans have been bringing it up for years. > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-96 > > dave i read the faq which was good by the way but i would thank that baums > great grandson would be considered a offical historian by lineage if you > know what i mean I'd concur -- if any of Baum's decendents could write a decent Oz book! So far, they've all fallen short, IMHO. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:51:53 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Flatland Uh, Dave, it's a nice cladogram, but I don't think there was any A. Cube in the Flatland universe. There was certainly A. Square and a sphere, but there never was A. Cube. Names for the domains of the Gnome King: Other than the horrible pun of Thompson (which I would consider a joke, not a real name), my guess it would be the Gnome Kingdome. I think one of the Enchanter books called it Gnomica. Aaron, the March Laumer gossip decree is that one set up to prevent idle gossip from leaking out of Oz. It was instituted when it was found that Jellia Jamb was leaking all sorts of rumors (some totally false, and others quite true) to Laumer out of frustration for never getting any good parts in books. By this time, many people had leaked out incomplete, faulty, or untrue information, one of the worse cases being Sharts the Shirtless' self- aggrandizing and -emmachoization leading to the heretical _A Barnstormer in Oz_. Quite wisely, Ozma decreed that information would be sent only to authorized parties. Aaron again: Hmmm. You have a point. Maybe Tik-Tok has a clairvoyance attachment? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 09:46:40 -0400 From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-24-96 Ok guys, three questions: Who the h--- is the Queasy? Who the h--- is Laumer? Where the h--- can I get "The Oz-Wonderland War"? [Note: The hyphens are mine... -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:57:47 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-24-96 Anthony - what do you mean by "the zips"? Do tell. Maybe I want one, I don't know yet. :-) |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 10:59 -0500 (CDT) From: tallison@mcs.com (Tim Allison) Subject: Oz Park Those of you in the Chicago area may be aware of Oz Park. There isn't all that much Ozzy there, but they try. This year the annual festival will be started with a showing of WOZ at the Lincoln Park Zoo, then during the weekend they have music, crafts and food booths, a midway and entertainment for the kids. Last year they claimed to have costumed characters, but I didn't see them. I think it would be nice if some of us heightened the Oz appeal. Let's put on our Oz t-shirts and have a picnic-either brought or bought there. This would be the first weekend in August-either Saturday or Sunday. Since it's by the lagoon and across the expressway from the lake, the heat isn't intolerable. If anyone is interested, please let me know. Also, since we don't seem to have a club directory any more, could someone please mention this to others in the area who aren't subscribers to this list? Thanks Carol Mitchell tallison@mcs.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:32:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Aaron: One possible explanation is that Tik-Tok could hear an enraged Evoldo talking to himself and outlining exactly what he was going to do. Of course, it would be much more exciting if Evoldo was still alive and hiding out, planning to.... (here comes Kabumpo!) On Dave's JPEG: Here is what I did. The CompuServe Mosaic Browser allows you to right-click images and download them. You can't do this with a background image, but I found a sneaky way to do it. Anyway, I saved the thing as a JPEG file and have no problem looking at it with the SPRY Image Viewer. Anthony: I understand what you mean by "Official Historian by lineage", but I cannot agree that Baum's descendants have an inborn ability or derived authority to write Oz books that are (to steal Aarons phrase) intrinsically more official than anybody else simply because of their last name. IMHO, this is similar to the ancient theory of "The Divine Right of Kings", which decreed that certain bloodlines were ordained by God to rule over other people and that the King's oldest son, just because he was the first born, had a God-given authority and ability to become the next king. For the record, I am the first-born son of a first-born son of a first-born son so maybe... Eric, Anthony and capitalism: This is a practice that is becoming more common. Catalogs are expensive to print and distribute, and if someone does not buy stuff from the company, then they stop sending it. This is especially true for catalogs that are printed on glossy paper and have lots of color pictures, but if you want the catalogs, you gotta reciprocate by buying their stuff. Rich: The "hyperdimensional link" theory does not necessarily require that EVERY kingdom be located "out there". There are some that are definitely in Oz, such as Pumperdink. Therefore, you can visit some kingdoms over and over and also never see some again, with no problem. Dave and Danny: Besides the awful pun of Nome-Man's Land, the country really has no name, except for the generic Nome Kingdom or Dominions of the Nome King. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:57:24 -0700 From: steller Subject: Queasy Qui est le/la *Queasy*? Wo ist der/das/die *Queasy*? --Herr Professeur Teller (Perhaps je ist ein bit queasy--oder Woozy?--Trop de macaroni!) ====================================================================== Date: Friday 24-May-96 21:59:45 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ERIC: I just thought I'd mention that my server at school upgraded to Netscape, so now I can see those great yellow brivks on your site! :) GILI: >Anthony - what do you mean by "the zips"? Do tell. Maybe I want one, I >don't know yet. :-) He seems to have some Oz-related files compressed in 'ZIP' format...Can you tell what the files actually are though, Anthony? SAROZ@AOL.COM: >Who the h--- is the Queasy? A character in Aaron and Barry's _The Woozy of Oz_. (The Woozy's sister, is it, A. & B.?) >Who the h--- is Laumer? See sec. 2.10 of my FAQ. :) BTW, Sorry to have censored you ( you're not alone now, Bear :) ). but I am trying to keep profanity off the Digest. :) BARRY: > ... but I don't think there was any A. Cube in the Flatland universe. Hmmm ...You're right -- A. Cube is just in Rudy Rucker's _The Fourth Dimension_, in which he uses the _Flatland_ characters, but unlike _Sphereland_, probably does not belong in the Flatland HACC. :) :) :) >Aaron, the March Laumer gossip decree is that one set up to prevent idle >gossip from leaking out of Oz. Like these recent headlines in _Weekly Oz News_: "FLASH: OZMA MEETS WITH SPACE ALIENS -- THEY ADVISE HER ON PRESSING ISSUES OF ECONOMICS, ECOLOGY, DIPLOMACY, AND PARTY-THROWING!" "FLASH: TIKTOK LOSES 150 POUNDS ON NEW MIRACLE DIET AND IS NOW AS SLENDER AS C-3PO!" "FLASH: HUMAN FACE AND OTHER RELICS OF ANCIENT ALIEN CIVILIZATION DISCOVERED IN AERIAL PHOTOS TAKEN OVER DEADLY DESERT!" "FLASH: OZMA MEETS WITH JFK, MARILYN MONROE, AND ELVIS -- THEY GIVE HER ADVICE ON PRESSING ISSUES THAT COMPLETELY CONTRADICT WHAT THE ALIENS TOLD HER!" Ozma: D--- tabloids... :) >It was instituted when it was found that Jellia >Jamb was leaking all sorts of rumors (some totally false, and others quite >true) to Laumer out of frustration for never getting any good parts in books. Actually, I have been receiving reports from the Adepts of the doings and previously inrevealed hidden talents of Jellia, which will be the subject of my *Next* book, _Jellia Jamb of Oz_ ( after I finish _Fairy Princess_ :) ). CAROL: >I think it would be nice if some of us heightened the Oz appeal. Let's put >on our Oz t-shirts ... On this note, I'd like to take a moment to give my opinion of the Oz Map pin...It's very nice, but it's too small, IMHO. I wear it as a conversation piece in hopes to give myself opportunities to spread the Ozzy gospel ( as well as possibly running into a girl who says, "Hey, I love the Oz books too!", with wedding bells shortly thereafter. :) :) :) ). But the pin is so small that no one ever notices it! I think we need big Oz badges that proclaim our love of Oz to everyone!!! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 26, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 07:33:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-25-96 > > > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-96 > > > > dave i read the faq which was good by the way but i would thank that baums > > great grandson would be considered a offical historian by lineage if you > > know what i mean > > I'd concur -- if any of Baum's decendents could write a decent Oz book! > So far, they've all fallen short, IMHO. > > --Eric Gjovaag > the weather or not they can write a decent book isnt the issue the issue is weather or not its cannon we are not disscussing writing style or storytelling ability what we are talking about is if the informatin presented is accurate there is a differnce hugs anthony van pyre > > Where the h--- can I get "The Oz-Wonderland War"? > > [Note: The hyphens are mine... -- Dave] avaiable at most comic shops usally in the bargain boxes 3 issues in all nad pretty good stuff hugs anthony van pyre > > ====================================================================== > Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:57:47 +0300 (WET) > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-24-96 > > Anthony - what do you mean by "the zips"? Do tell. Maybe I want one, I > don't know yet. :-) > zips is a extnson for a file compressed with pkunzip the files held within in this case are wave files lots of them to be exact hugs anthony van py re > > Anthony: > I understand what you mean by "Official Historian by lineage", but I > cannot agree that Baum's descendants have an inborn ability or derived > authority to write Oz books that are (to steal Aarons phrase) intrinsically > more official than anybody else simply because of their last name. if we look at this the way stories are handedd down by tradition like in the native americans or in other traditions or nationalities then i beg to differ with your above statement perhaps baum as a father told his children oz storries that didnt get published and they in turn told their kids hugs anthony van pyre > Eric, Anthony and capitalism: > This is a practice that is becoming more common. Catalogs are expensive to > print and distribute, and if someone does not buy stuff from the company, > then they stop sending it. This is especially true for catalogs that are > printed on glossy paper and have lots of color pictures, but if you want > the catalogs, you gotta reciprocate by buying their stuff. was going to tackle this last time alright here si the situation they sent me their catalog 2 of them that they send everyone at the time i didnt have any money so i couldnt order anything they stopped i called htem a yearlater requested catalogs again they said they would send me the onese they send everyone again first(ie the 2 i already had) i had told them i have these 2 already they said we have to send these before we send any others so the resent them then sent me one more hte one thing i wanted in the first catalog which i now had money for they were out i wanted nothing in the 3rd catalog and that was the last i recieved hugs anthony van pyre > GILI: > >Anthony - what do you mean by "the zips"? Do tell. Maybe I want one, I > >don't know yet. :-) > > He seems to have some Oz-related files compressed in 'ZIP' format...Can you > tell what the files actually are though, Anthony? as stated in earlier oz digests and above i have wav files from the movie and some outtakes where they messed up in the words they were singing or the tempo hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 09:15:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-24-96 Dave--Somewhere in the Woozymorph lineage, I think there's a N'Ozzeate branch (pronounced Nauseate). In the '50s, another branch migrated to the U.S. where they plagued the denizens of Greenwich Village; they were simply called "squares." ;) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 12:14:25 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Queasies Saroz, the Queasy is a character which will NOT be appearing in _The Woozy of Oz_, but is scheduled to appear--uh, oh, here come the blab police. There was also a brief appearance of her in Aaron's last Purim joke, "The Evil Author of Oz." Yet another goofy title inspired by the Tik-Tok problem: _Star Wars in Oz_: In which Darth Vader and Evardo XVI battle and the immortal words are said, "Evardo, I am your father!" STJ: Huh? ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 13:53:34 -0400 From: homer Hey, what's going on at the Books of Wonder "Oz Collector"? Every time I call to place an order, no matter when I call, I talk to the same old guy. He seems really slow, and they almost ALWAYS screw up my order. It takes forever, and when I call back to see what the delay is, they say "No, no, you never ordered that" or "We never sent that out." It's awful! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 15:41:22 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests since 5/18/96 Spent the better part of the past two weeks in either NY or TN, and the brief time in between I was too busy to comment on the Digest, though I did read it. I'll try not to be too prolix in my catch-up comments... :-) 5/18: Tyler: I'm using Professor Nowitall in my in-progress EUREKA IN OZ, which is completely inconsistent with Laumer's Oz but consistent with the FF (at least, it's intended to be...). There isn't any specific set of dates for the Paleolithic period; I believe it ended around 10,000 BCE in what's now the Middle East, but I think there were some tribes in remote parts of the world that were still paleolithic into the last century, or maybe even this one. The Neolithic is marked by the shift from hunting and gathering to either herding or agriculture (or both). It's an interesting question why, when Professor and Mrs. Swyne appear to be normal-size pigs, that their children are so tiny. (Neill isn't too consistent in depicting them, but Eureka repeatedly says they're the size of mice, and no one contradicts her.) Peter Hanff: >A Miss Moorhouse was propelled through the air about 1.4 and deposited >safely to the ground. I think I'd award at least a 9.6 to anyone who went up in a tornado and got back to the ground safely. :-) :-) :-) (So I sometimes watch gymnastics...) Rich: I watched a DR. WHO episode once. That told me that either I needed to watch every episode or not bother. I chose the latter. 5/19: Danny: Strictly speaking, Dunkiton and Foxville and the Scoodlers aren't in Oz, though they're on the Continent of Imagination (or Baumgea, by Dave's coinage). Since they're outside the Deadly Desert, there's much less difficulty in getting to them. Most Ozian citizens seem to be relatively WASPish. I can't remember any non-white or even non-Anglo characters in the FF other than the Tottenhots and those who are clearly not truly human, like the Hoppers and Horners and Thists. 5/20: Gili (and others): The sign the travelers see at the edge of the Deadly Desert in ROAD very specifically says the sands will turn "living flesh" (not "organic material") into dust. This would seem to imply that even a pair of shoes (which are non-living flesh) should protect one from that magic, but it evidently wasn't -that- specific. It would be reasonable, however, to assume that Tik-Tok, the Tin Woodman, the Glass Cat, and the Sawhorse could all cross the desert with impunity. Because of the heat it might not be safe for Scraps, the Scarecrow, or Jack Pumpkinhead. (The fumes, though mentioned a time or two, can't really be that bad, or the Magic Carpet and the sandboat wouldn't have prevented harm to their users.) 5/21: Steve: I bought a copy of TALES OF MAGIC LAND I, but have never seen a copy of II. I'll buy it when I do, as well as III when it comes out. Can I order it direct from Blystone at the address you give in a later post? As someone pointed out, Winnie-the-Pooh didn't live in the forest under the name of Edward Behr (or Bear); that was his name in the Milne house. In the forest he lived under the name of Sanders. (Back in the Sixties, and possibly before or since, Poul Anderson used the pseudonym "Winston P. Sanders" for some of his work in ANALOG and possibly elsewhere, just as a bit of trivia.) Rich: We don't know what would have happened to Carter Green if he'd just stepped onto the DD barefoot with no magical protection; he might have been protected by the Quick Sandals, but he definitely was by the Rash Ruby he was carrying. Eric: >> 3) Secondary reason to discount evidence from Dorothy of Oz: Would the >> Wicked Witch of the East appreciate the Wizard and the Good Witch of the >> North carrying on a building project in HER territory? I think not... >Of course she wouldn't. But the question is, what could she DO about it? Presumably she could do -something- about it. Since the Wizard had no real power at all, we can discount him entirely. The GWN couldn't have been strong enough to defeat the WWE in her own territory, or she'd have done so before Dorothy's house terminated the WWE. It appears that in pre-Dorothean times Glinda was unwilling to intervene outside the Quadling Country, but this clearly isn't true of the GWN. So the only reason she didn't must have been that she wasn't strong enough. Dave: I hope Nate Barlow will rejoin us soon. An account that lets you access the Internet isn't all that expensive - AOL is only $9.95 a month, for instance, and there are probably other carriers that are even cheaper. (It's not that cheap if you're doing a lot of Web-surfing, of course, but it gets you E-mail and the Ozzy Digest with no problem.) Of course, if he doesn't have his own computer yet that's something else. 5/22: Aaron: I don't think anyone suggested putting SEVEN-DAY MAGIC into the general Oz universe. But the segment you cite is clearly inspired by the Oz books (one of the few Oz references that isn't just to the movie), and so should probably appear in your HI/RCC if, say, WICKED does. (Eager was somewhat limited compared to Farmer or Maguire, in that all the Oz books were still under copyright when he wrote SDM [or so I believe; I don't have my books yet, so can't check the publication date of SDM]. So he had to write around it more, including not using "Oz" in the story.) "Guardy" as a nickname for the Guardian of the Gate may be the worst Thompsonian name in the FF, but I think "Cowy" for the Cowardly Lion in ENCHANTED ISLAND is distinctly worse. Anyhow, "Guardy" wasn't presented as his name; it was clearly a nickname the Wizard gave him based on his vocation. Eric: I don't suppose we know whether "Locasta" was Baum's or Mitchell's, but it sounds like a Baumian name (akin to Glinda, Lulea, Maetta, Gayelette, etc.), which "Tattypoo" certainly doesn't. Rich: It was only about three or four weeks ago that I saw the obituaries of Christopher Milne and P.L. Travers in the Tribune, and I don't think they were all that dilatory in publishing them. So they couldn't have died "several months" before Garth Williams, unless the latter is still alive and you're forecasting the future... :-) Tyler: It's an interesting question as to why Oz would need a school system any more. If the whole place isn't to get overcrowded, the birth rate has to be very low. And since children never grow up, they don't really need a lot of schooling. One would think that there wouldn't be enough children needing schooling at any one time to support a whole school system; the few new ones (like Pajonia) could be tutored individually. (This is another subject that's covered in EUREKA IN OZ.) Gili: "Trespassers W", which is short for "Trespassers Will", which is short for "Trespassers William", was believed by Piglet to be his grandfather, based on a sign outside the tree where Piglet lived. 5/23: Eric: Naturally every book that mentions or implies a connection with Oz can't be put on the list, but I think books that actually take characters to Oz do belong there - which means SEVEN-DAY MAGIC and NUMBER OF THE BEAST belong there, along with THE ENCHANTER REBORN. But, say, THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES, which has one scene in one story where a book-burner on Mars sees the Emerald City appear in the distance and then crumble, doesn't. I think limiting the HI/RCC to books where characters actually visit Oz (or a country that is obviously based on Oz) doesn't require that huge an expansion. YMMV. Tyler: Actually, there is some evidence for your "hyperdimensional link" theory of where some of the odder kingdoms in Oz are. It's hard to explain otherwise why Jack and Peter suddenly find themselves blocked by a wall and a door (leading to Chimneyville) on a road that Jack has to have taken hundreds of times from his home to the EC. Bear: Which of Carol Kendall's books have you been looking for? THE GAMMAGE CUP, THE WHISPER OF GLOCKEN, and another sequel whose title I forget at the moment, have all been in print within the last 20 years, I know. If she's written others, I'd like to know the titles so I can look for them too. Barry: Glad to hear that another bookstore is carrying GLASS CAT. That makes three I know of so far, including BoW... (If anyone else sees a copy at a bookstore, please let me know, even if you don't buy it!) If the entire print run of GLASS CAT sold out, it wouldn't pay more than a couple of months' worth of electric bills (at least, not in summer time). I wrote it for egoboo, not money. Of course, if people don't read it I don't get the egoboo either. 5/24: Aaron: Presumably Evoldo told Tik-Tok what he was going to do before he locked him up; TT didn't -know- Evoldo carried out his threat, but events proved that he must have at least thrown the key into the sea (because Billina found it on the beach), and Roquat agreed that he'd ended his life. If -that- wasn't true then Ozma was overreaching even more than it currently appears when she intervened, since Evoldo -had- gotten just what he'd bargained for. Bear: Well, I warned you that Thompson's early books, particularly COWARDLY LION and GRAMPA, aren't very good. LOST KING is much better, IMHO, as is its immediate successor HUNGRY TIGER. I'm not overly fond of Peter from Philadelphia, so his three books (GNOME KING, JACK PUMPKINHEAD, and PIRATES) aren't high on my list. GIANT HORSE ties up a lot of loose ends (and leaves a lot of new ones), but as a story it's also mediocre, as is PURPLE PRINCE. But YELLOW KNIGHT, and all the books from OJO through SILVER PRINCESS, range from quite good to excellent. (I'm not as fond of CAPTAIN SALT as Tyler is, but it's still better than most of her early books.) OZOPLANING is probably the worst FF book not by Neill, but I think she'd already decided to stop writing Oz books and wasn't really trying in it. Eric: Well, I get forty cents per PB copy of GLASS CAT sold, but then I don't have to split with a co-author. (Reminds me of a remark by Cole Porter when one of Rodgers & Hammerstein's musicals - I think SOUTH PACIFIC - beat out one of his - I think KISS ME, KATE - for Best Musical one year. "Yeah, but you notice it took two of them to do it!") :-) Rich: Pumperdink is mentioned in a number of books, because Kabumpo keeps turning up, but we only actually visit it twice in the FF. Of course, that's once more than we visit almost any other place except the EC, Glinda's castle, the Tin Woodman's palace, Jack Pumpkinhead's and Jinjur's farms, and the Scarecrow's tower. Can anyone think of another place that receives multiple visits in the FF? (Jinnicky's palace, but that's not in Oz itself.) The IWOC Oz maps include references from the non-FF Oz books published by the IWOC, as well as LAUGHING DRAGON and Baum's non-Oz fantasies. But they've ignored other books (including those by people named Baum), and I have no reason to think they'd add references to DOROTHY IN OZ or RETURN TO OZ. If they had it to do over again they'd probably delete the references to LAUGHING DRAGON, but it's a little late for that now. 5/25: Barry: Jellia had a good part in OZOPLANING, as well as in the non-FF MYSTERIOUS CHRONICLES. And my planned Oz short story for the 1997 Research Tables is "Jellia, Maid of Oz"... Carol: Thanks for telling me about Oz Park - I've just moved to the Chicago area recently and will certainly want to attend, but I don't know any other Oz fans here yet to pass the word to. (I'll mention it to anyone I meet at Ozmopolitan next month, though.) Do let me know (by private E-mail if you prefer) when the details are more settled. Tyler: I'm not the first son of a first son of a first son, but I have figured out that if my great-grandfather had had a title (other than The Meanest Man in West Davidson County) I'd have recently inherited it; my grandfather was his first son, and although my father was his second son, and my uncle had two sons, both of them died leaving only daughters. For that matter, I only have a daughter, so on my demise the "title" would pass to my younger brother, or his older son if I outlive my brother... You don't have to buy -often- from a catalog to keep getting them; I'll usually keep getting catalogs from places that I only order from every couple of years. And there are some places, like The Mac Connection, that have sent me catalogs for years even though I've never ordered anything from them. (I think they buy mailing lists and send catalogs to people on them even though they buy nothing.) But Books of Wonder keeps their mailing list more up to date, I think. Steve: La Queasy, c'est la soeur du Woozy. Die Queasy ist in Adelmans Oz. (Well, in your German version you asked "Where is the Queasy?") :-) Dave: The Oz T-shirts are a better way than the pin to proclaim one's love of Oz. I particularly like the "Winkie" one that I got at Winkie Conference last year; I imagine they're still available, though I can't remember the name of the lady who was selling them offhand. Eric or Peter Hanff or someone might be able to give you her name and address. (I think she's from around Sacramento somewhere.) And so now I'm all caught up - and will try to stay up to date until the first part of June, when we'll be moving into our new house and then I'll be going to Louisville for Ozmopolitan, and will probably get way behind again... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 13:50:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-25-96 > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: Flatland > > Aaron, the March Laumer gossip decree is that one set up to prevent idle > gossip from leaking out of Oz. It was instituted when it was found... Well, here we go, people presenting their own ideas as established facts again... > From: Saroz@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-24-96 > > Ok guys, three questions: Since Dave's answered the first two already, I'll just tackle: > Where the h--- can I get "The Oz-Wonderland War"? All I can suggest is to check your local comics shops, especially the ones with a large selection of back issues. Look under both the "Captain Carrot" and "Oz/Wonderland War" classifications. (In case you were wondering, it was a three-issue mini-series put out by DC ca. 1985. The full title is "Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew in the Oz/Wonderland War Trilogy" -- I think.) It is hard to find, as I don't think it ever really hit it big (one of my local shops didn't stock it because they thought it wouldn't sell -- then got all those requests for it, and realized the mistake they'd made), but according to the latest Overstreet price guide their value is about two dollars per issue in near mint condition -- IF you can find them. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > ERIC: > I just thought I'd mention that my server at school upgraded to Netscape, > so now I can see those great yellow brivks on your site! :) Oh, good. Now when I add all the other graphics this summer more people can enjoy them! (Hey, everybody, would it be worth my while if I put up a text-only version of my web page as well, or at least of the FAQ?) --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:52:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Saroz: DAve has answered two of your questions (or at least pointed you to the Laumer question), and here is the answer to the other question. Sadly, tthe Oz-Wonderland-War (Three double-length comics) are out of print. This is too bad, since they are hilarious. I will be bringing my copies to the Southern Winkie Convention in October, if anyone cares to see them. Dave: Definitely, yes. We need big huge Oz map pins to spread the word! :-) --Tyler "Shortest post of all time" Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 20:14:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Dave - Now you have IMPLIED that I was censored for profanity. That was not the case. My grandfather told me that "Profanity was a weak mind trying to express myself strongly." That cured me long ago. I was censored for something much more heinous. :) Dave again - So much for little pins. Tatooes are big these days. Have you considered having OZ tatooed someplace obvious? Your forehead maybe? :) :) :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 23:21:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Queasy 1) Barry, what's wrong with "the Nome Kingdom"? 2) Gili, Barry is not my twin. He's the result of an accident I had some time ago with a photocopier. (: 3) Robin, the Woozy has denied to me any relationship with the Boxers, which he has described to me as "a bunch of wierdoes dressed in boxes running around in the woods". 4) Bear, fortunately there is no enchanted princess in The Lost King of Oz. Grumpy the Bear: BEAR STEAKS?! I'LL KILL HER! I'LL KILL HER! 5) Saroz and Stephen, the Queasy is the Woozy's youngest sister. She does NOT appear in The Woozy of Oz, but is only mentioned, as are a few other members of his family. Her appearance is currently top secret, only to be revealed when the book in which she appears, currently titled The Queasy in Oz, is published. Currently that book is #5 in Lurline's Machine and has been put on the back burner so that more work can be done on The Last Emperor of Oz and Mombi of Oz 6) Saroz only, March Laumer is an author who writes Baum-Thompson-Neill-consistent Oz books in not-for-children mode. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 21:13:33 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff I have another pre-history (actually, more between-the-pages-of history) question to throw out-- I don't know if it was brought up before. . . Why is it that the Emerald City in _Wizard_ has its emerald beauty fake, that is, seen only through green-tinted glasses, whereas in the next book, _Land_ Jinjur and her army reveal that there are indeed emeralds there! All the rest of the books treat the EC this way as well. Did the Scarecrow, in his brief reign as ruler, order all the emeralds in, or were they always there in the first place? If glasses were needed to be worn even upto Jinjur's Rebellion, how come all of a sudden they weren't by the end of LAND. Hmmm. . . Pondering the unponderable, Danny ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 27, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 02:13:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Queasy, part 2 1) Marc, the stories in Dorothy of Oz and The Dinamonster of Oz are not "models of consistency with the rest of the Oz universe". 2) David, I was under the impression that the Nine Tiny Piglets weren't midgets, but that they were just very young. Also: Strange. I was under the impression that you didn't have to watch all Doctor Who episodes to enjoy them. Not that I wouldn't want to eventually see them all... Also: Remind me to make Hiergargo and family non-quasi-European. Also: Considering the Woozy's incredibly thick skin, could he survive a walk on the desert, even though he's made of flesh? Also: Wicked definitely appears in the HI/RCC besides Seven Day Magic and the despicable Number of the Beast. Seven Day Magic is copyright 1962. Also: The Silver Princess in Oz struck me as rather tourish and not very good. On the other hand, I thouroughly enjoyed Ojo in Oz. Also: I believe Uptown gets visited both in The Giant Horse of Oz and The Wishing Horse of Oz. ***WARNING: COMPLETELY USELESS AND CONFUSING SPOILER ON THE QUEASY*** Also: You wrote: >Die Queasy ist in Adelmans Oz. Actually--and I feel I can spoil you since this is a completely confusing and useless spoiler--the Queasy at this point isn't anywhere at all and cannot be properly said to even be alive or dead. (Heh heh heh! It'll take you until The Queasy in Oz is published until you figure this one out.) ***END WARNING*** n) Eric, a text-based version of your page would certainly be appreciated. Unfortunately, YU doesn't have PPP or SLIP access yet, so I do most of my Web-surfing through Lynx. ): n + 1) Daniel, apparently the Scarecrow decided to have real emeralds installed during his four years as king. As to why Ozma decided to abolish the green glasses, perhaps because she knew they weren't needed since she hadn't been blinded when she had previously visited the Emerald City as Tip. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 07:55:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-26-96 > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-25-96 > [in regards to Baum's descendants' books being considered canon:] > the weather or not they can write a decent book isnt the issue the issue > is weather or not its cannon we are not disscussing writing style or > storytelling ability what we are talking about is if the informatin > presented is accurate there is a differnce Okay, then here's my take on the whole canon issue: Whatever you want to be canon is part of your own personal canon. And everone else's personal canon's should be respected. > From: homer > > Hey, what's going on at the Books of Wonder "Oz Collector"? Every time I > call to place an order, no matter when I call, I talk to the same old guy. > He seems really slow, and they almost ALWAYS screw up my order. It takes > forever, and when I call back to see what the delay is, they say "No, no, > you never ordered that" or "We never sent that out." It's awful! The only times I've had problems with BoW is when I went through their phone service. Therefore, it's worth the extra thirty-two cents to me to write out a check and mail my ordere to them. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digests since 5/18/96 > > Rich: > I watched a DR. WHO episode once. That told me that either I needed to watch > every episode or not bother. I chose the latter. Well, it's not THAT bad, but even though I'm a die-hard Whovian I'll be the first to admit that it's not suited to everyone's taste. And IIRC (and I'm not sure that I do), it was Robin Helfrinch who was selling those wonderful Winkie T-shirts at last year's convention. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Dave again - So much for little pins. Tatooes are big these days. Have you > considered having OZ tatooed someplace obvious? Your forehead maybe? :) :) :) I don't care HOW "big" tattoos are, I'm still not going to do it. (Or pierce my ear or any other part of my body, for that matter.) > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > Why is it that the Emerald City in _Wizard_ has its emerald beauty > fake, that is, seen only through green-tinted glasses, whereas in the > next book, _Land_ Jinjur and her army reveal that there are indeed > emeralds there! All the rest of the books treat the EC this way as > well. Did the Scarecrow, in his brief reign as ruler, order all the > emeralds in, or were they always there in the first place? > > If glasses were needed to be worn even upto Jinjur's Rebellion, how > come all of a sudden they weren't by the end of LAND. Hmmm. . . The emeralds had been there all along, the Wizard (being an old showman, of course) just had the glasses put on to enhance the effect. Once Jinjur's troops came in without glasses, however, the secret was out, and presumably Ozma officially abolished the glasses as being unnecessary. But hey, the city is STILL pretty green even without the glasses. --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 10:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Emerald City of Oz Danny, that's another good question. I would suggest that the Scarecrow, realizing that he would not be able to keep up the bluff forever without someone eventually figuring it out, ordered the jewels all changed over to emeralds. Given the gap of about three years between _Wizard_ and _Land_, this should have been enough time to make the changeover. If I remember correctly, Volkov's _The Seven Kings of the Underground_ actually identified the source of the emeralds, but that book had the Wizard make the place emerald-studded. Eric, I thought the "March Laumer gossip decree" thing was an obvious joke. It was not meant to be taken seriously, any more than the e-mail messages from Oz, and I apologize if it confused or irritated anyone. David Hulan wrote: >"Jellia, Maid of Oz" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 10:37:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-26-96 Aaron: Sorry about that photocopier accident (which, BTW, made me laugh out loud). Also, I regret that in order to keep the DIGESTS truthful, I must inform you that the Woozy was so ashamed of his Boxer relations that he wasn't quite on the square with you when he dissed and denied them. It is a little known fact that the Scraps undertook a personal project to teach her boxy friend to prevaricate; she was, unfortunately, successful.--Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 14:11:14 -0400 From: homer Most likely, in the case of the Swynes and the Nine Tiny Piglets' size is that Oz was turned into a fairyland very soon after they were born. This of course only works if they were in fact born in Oz. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 14:15:39 -0400 From: homer The Truth Pond was visited twice, and the Scarecrow's beanpole, and the Yellow Brick Road (of course) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-26-96 In response to Dave Hulan with reference to 5/18 digest: i.e. miles; the article's point was that this event may have served as a model for events recorded by Baum in 1900. I neglected to include that factoid, too. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 16:15:06 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-26-96 Anthony: While it is theoretically possible that LFB told his children unpublished Oz stories that were then handed down to their children and so on, there is no evidence that this happened. It seems unlikely, because Baum made it clear after OZMA that he was only writing about Oz because he needed the money and that's what people would pay for. That being the case, it's improbable that he'd make up additional Oz stories to tell his children. And the Oz books by Baum descendants that I've read have -not- been accurate to Oz as otherwise described by Baum, although admittedly Baum's later books weren't accurate to Oz as he described it in his earlier ones. Still, trying to reconcile the contradictions in Baum's books is a worthwhile effort; adding in the other numerous contradictions in the books by Roger and Kenneth Baum as things that need reconciliation is carrying things too far, in my opinion. Homer: Books of Wonder seems to have subcontracted their mail-order business - at least for Oz stuff - to some outfit in New Hampshire. At least, that's where all the mail orders I've placed to them recently have been shipped from. I haven't had any problem with undue slowness (BoW has never been speedy; if you expect to receive anything from them in less than a month after you order then you're being overoptimistic), and all my orders have been filled. But your problem sounds serious. (Especially if you were ordering GLASS CAT! :-) ) Maybe Peter Glassman will read your complaint and comment on it. Me: Upon reconsideration, I think my French comment to Steve should have been, "La Queasy, cette est la soeur du Woozy." But my French is not very good; I read it OK, but don't know all the rules because I never studied it formally. Eric: >> Aaron, the March Laumer gossip decree is that one set up to prevent idle >> gossip from leaking out of Oz. It was instituted when it was found... >Well, here we go, people presenting their own ideas as established facts >again... I don't see Barry's comment that way at all. He was clearly writing a bit of humorous fantasy there, not presenting an idea. Danny: My impression is that the Emerald City, even in WIZARD, included lots of emeralds in its decoration. The green glasses were used to make -everything- in the city look green. ISTR that that custom continued in LAND until it was ended at the point where Jinjur's army invaded the city without putting on the glasses, and then was never reinstated. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 15:00:59 -0700 From: steller Subject: (no subject) David Hulan: _Tales of Magic Land I and II_ can be ordered directly from Peter Blystone at the address I gave last week. _Tales III_ may be awhile, until Peter Blystone, who is admittedly a poor businessman (like some other private Oz publishers) can get some money. It seems very likely that P. B. will be making as translation of _The Emerald Rain_, but if, and when it will be commercially available is anyone's guess. I saw and purchased a copy of _Glass Cat in Oz_ in *The Stars Our Destination* bookstore in Chicago. They also had a good collection of other BofW and Morrow/BofW titles. I consider _The Wishing Horse of Oz_ Thompson's best Oz book. Perhaps someday I will write the essay that explains why. The Oz Park in Chicago was the brain child of the late Bill Eubank. He got a group of people together including my father to march around in costume demanding that Chicago have a park named after the most important book written in my home town. See you in Louisville Barry: "Macaroni" is a literary term for a bastardized blending of various languages. I merely asked, in bad French and bad German (I don't have any bad Russian, Japanese, or Yiddish) *Who/where/why is the Queasy?* Aaron: Forgive me, I read your entry addressed Saroz only anthony van pyre i concur with what has been said genius is not inheritable none of baums offspring had his skill i have read rosine and the laughing dragon the original and non oz version of the laughing dragon of oz and the dinamonster of oz which i am responsible for seeing to press and for which i wrote the introduction and if anyone wants a copy i have many for sale with an forward by ozma baum mantele baums granddaughter and illustrated by her daughter baums great grandaughter and will state there is no evidence in either book that they contain any insight into l frank baums world as both books differ in mighty ways from the original begetter of oz roger baum is even further from his great grandfathers influence as he didnot live in the same period i suspect that peter glassman of books of wonder was a greater influence on dorothy of oz than frank baum the later roger baum books are even less baumian perhaps native americans pass down native traditions but there is no evidence that the royal historian did By the way, Ozma Baum Mantele will be a featured guest in Louisville. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 20:17:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest Anthony: It is of course possible that Baum told some stories to his kids and they either wrote them down or passed them on in turn to their children who did write them down. However, I would argue that _Dinamonster_ is definitely not written in the Baumian (in this case, L. Frank) atmosphere. IMHO, the Oz stories that have been written to date by Baums descendants are their own creations. Even if they were told by L. Frank Baum, I would argue that they should not be considered as "official" as the Baum 14 and the rest of the FF. For example, I do not consider Baum's other Ozzy writings to be official, such as _Third Book of Oz_ (originally serialized in a magazine), _Little Wizard Stories_ or _A Short Short Oz Story_, which Baum originally wrote on the back cover of his son's copy of _Road to Oz_. IMHO, there is a world of difference between L. Frank Baum sitting down and writing an actual book and just spinning bedtime stories to pass the time. Anthony (and others): Thanks for the info re the Oz-Wonderland Series. Maybe others can enjoy them as much as I have. They are Hilarious with a capital "H". Homer: I have never had a problem ordering stuff from Books of Wonder, but then I never use the 800 number. I always send stuff in snail-mail. Peter Glassman: Speaking of this issue, can we order BOW stuff over the internet? David: Perhaps there was something irregular about their birth (some kind of spot magic making them small), or perhaps their stay in Teenty-Weent affected their size, if you accept Laumers explanation. David and Eric: Even though the Wizard had no real power, the Witches did not know this. Therefore, if the Wizard was doing something in the Munchkin country, then the WWE(Gingemma) may have stayed away unless she was directly threatened. However, this brings up another question. He was trying to fool everyone about his magical power, even the good witches. Working with GWN(Locasta) on a project such as this would have let the cat out of the bag, since the witch would notice that she was doing all of the actual magic! This is all assuming that the Wizard was involved in the construction of the YBR's, which I still do not buy, for a number of reasons. David: Is is true that there is not as much of a need for a full school system, since so few people at any time would need education. Of course, Professor Nowitalls school was in operation before Ozma ascended the throne, so that people would probably still age normally. Also, of course, the only school that is given much attention is the Wogglebugs Royal Athletic College, and that is more for sports than actual education, which is taken care of by the Wizards education pills, further lessening the need for a formal school system. Rich and David: Places in Oz that are revisited are few and far between. In _Lost King_, Thompson mentions that Dorothy has just returned from a visit to Perhaps City, first mentioned in _Grampa_, although we ourselves do not see it. Regalia is visited twice, in _Purple Prince_ and _Silver Princess_. Also, in one of Neills books, we visit the Lollies and their Pops at least three times. David: Your are, of course, following the Salic law, which stated that titles and sovereign power could not pass to a woman or through a woman. Even so, I wold not consider "Royal Historian of Oz" as an inherited title so much as a profession. Danny: The green glasses were probably used to portray the ENTIRE Emerald City as green. There were clearly emeralds there, but there were non-green materials used in its construction and the Wizard in all likelihood wanted to have the illusion that the entire city was constructed completely out of emeralds. In _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, which I do not accept as Historically Accurate, the Wizard also used the glasses to confuse the Wicked Witches, who would be using magic of a color other than green. There is some discussion of the Emeralds in _The Lost Emeralds of Oz_, by Fred Otto, but I have not read all of that book yet. I presume that by the time Ozma ascended the throne, it was decided that any threat from the Wicked Withces was gone forever, and that it was cumbersome to have people wearing those glasses all the time and forever taking them off and on, so Ozma eliminated them. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 19:57:31 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 Eric Gjovaag: >Books of Wonder will gladly send you any of their books, they are also a >mail order house. Give them a call at 1-800-345-6665 and ask to be put on >the mailing list for "The Oz Collector," their catalog of all kinds of Oz >goodies. Thanks for the kind words, Eric, but the phone number you gave is for ordering and customer service concerning orders already placed. To request a catalog, it's best to call our corporate customer service line at (800) 207-6968. Anthony Van Pyre: If you received our general "introductory" Oz Collector as well as another issue and found nothing of interest to you in them, then you either: 1) have an incredibly large, complete collection already with no interest in adding new titles; 2) have a very narrow range of collecting which we don't meet; 3) collect very eclectly. In any event, I'm sorry our catalogs and policies so displeased you, but the fact of the matter is that nearly all our thousands of Oz customers start by ordering something from our "introductory" Oz Collector. Tyler Jones: >By the way, a young girl who lives in my neighborhood is interested in >obtaining a copy of _The Silver Princess in Oz_. I looked in your catalog, >but it is not there yet. Do you guys intend to publish it? Yes, "Silver Princess of Oz" and "Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz" are both scheduled for publication this autumn. Also scheduled is a newly illustrated edition of Baum's "The Enchanted Island of Yew" and Donald Abbott's newest book, "How the Wizard Saved Oz" - a companion to "How the Wizard Came to Oz." And, for fans of E. Nesbit (a British writer of fantasy for children who wrote at the same time as Baum), we're publishing two of her rarest titles: "The Magic City" and "Wet Magic." Also, for those of you who don't want to shop via mail, but do want to see our books, feel free to visit your local Borders Bookshop - they now stock all the Books of Wonder and Emerald City Press Oz books, including those by the Oz Digest's own Eric Gjovaag and David Hulan. Bear: >Since BOW is "commited to preserving the best in children's literature" is there >any chance you are going to reprint Carol Kendall's great books? I have been >trying to find a couple of them for decades. Probably not, since the last time I checked, the rights were still owned by the original publisher, Harcourt Brace and Company. In fact, up to a couple of years ago, they were still in print in paperback. They might still be (I'm not as up on this as my store's buyer is). If you would like to check to see if we have them currently in stock, please feel free to call the store at (212) 989-3270. And, although you're right that this is a bit off Oz, I also agree that they're great books! From: homer >Hey, what's going on at the Books of Wonder "Oz Collector"? Every time I >call to place an order, no matter when I call, I talk to the same old guy. >He seems really slow, and they almost ALWAYS screw up my order. It takes >forever, and when I call back to see what the delay is, they say "No, no, >you never ordered that" or "We never sent that out." It's awful! I'm EXTREMELY sorry to hear this! Please call our corporate customer service line at (800) 207-6968 and ask to speak with me. I definitely want to get to the bottom of this. And if anyone else out there is having any problems with our new fulfillment service (that's who you're speaking with, by the way), please call us and let us know! So far we've had more compliments than complaints, but we need to know what they're doing wrong so we can correct it. David Hulan: >You don't have to buy -often- from a catalog to keep getting them; I'll >usually keep getting catalogs from places that I only order from every couple >of years. And there are some places, like The Mac Connection, that have sent >me catalogs for years even though I've never ordered anything from them. (I >think they buy mailing lists and send catalogs to people on them even though >they buy nothing.) But Books of Wonder keeps their mailing list more up to >date, I think. Yes, we do keep our mailing list up to date, but anyone who buys from any issue of The Oz Collector receives the next two years worth of mailings. We feel that's certainly ample time for anyone to decide if they are interested in anything else we offer. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 00:31:58 -0500 From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) Subject: oz tinman@ncentral.com wrote: > Hey, what's going on at the Books of Wonder "Oz Collector"? Every time I > call to place an order, no matter when I call, I talk to the same old guy. > He seems really slow, and they almost ALWAYS screw up my order. It takes > forever, and when I call back to see what the delay is, they say "No, no, > you never ordered that" or "We never sent that out." It's awful! You think this is bad? Try getting a book from the IWOC these days..... greg ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 26-May-96 23:14:21 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things (5/26 DIGEST REPLIES) DAVID H.: >Strictly speaking, Dunkiton and Foxville and the Scoodlers aren't in Oz ... Even leniently speaking they're not in Oz... :) :) :) >Most Ozian citizens seem to be relatively WASPish. It seems to me though that the only evidence we have for the race of any native Ozian is the illustrations, which may be biased, and I think we've decided cannot be considered "evidence". >AOL is only $9.95 a month, for instance ... By the wonder of Lurline!!! Delphi is $20.00 a month, and then only evenings and for the first 20 hours each month (in the daytime and after 20 hours, you pay through the nose)!...But what can I do? AOL doesn't support the Amiga! :( > ... I think "Cowy" for the Cowardly Lion in ENCHANTED ISLAND is >distinctly worse... It certainly is! :) "Leo" whould be better (though cliche/d)...or how about "Tenderpaw" (descriptive), "Tiny" (ironic), or even "Zeke" (not-so-subtle MGM reference)... :) >The Oz T-shirts are a better way than the pin to proclaim one's love of Oz. But unfortunately I have a phobia about wearing T-shirts with logos, etc. ( something about the idea of writing conforming to my less than Olympian body contours... :) :) :) ) TYLER: >Definitely, yes. We need big huge Oz map pins to spread the word! :-) Or how about badges of Oz characters? What with it's being an election year, I was thinking having an "Ozma for President" badge made up for me. :) :) AARON: >... the Woozy has denied to me any relationship with the Boxers ... Hmmm...Must be a case of convergent evolution then... :) NOW TO TODAY'S DIGEST AARON AGAIN: >Also: The Silver Princess in Oz struck me as rather tourish and not very >good. On the other hand, I thouroughly enjoyed Ojo in Oz. I *loved* _Silver Princess_, and I couldn't even *read* _Ojo_ (I just couldn't get into it)...I guess that just shows the wide variety of tastes, even within a common interest like Oz. ANTHONY'S GRAMMAR ISSUE: More complaints are coming in about Anthony's grammar and lack of punctuation, and while I see people's points, I really feel the Digest should not be a forum for people's judgements about other people's writing style, so instead of posting the individual comments people have sent regarding Anthony, I am asking that we not publically embarass him on the Digest any more than I'm afraid I may be doing right now with this message, but instead please E-mail Anthony privately with your concerns about his writing. Thanks. ERIC: >I don't care HOW "big" tattoos are, I'm still not going to do it. (Or >pierce my ear or any other part of my body, for that matter.) Bear was just kidding. ( At least I *HOPE* he was! :) :) :) ) >>"Jellia, Maid of Oz" > If this was a pun, it was lost on me... ROBIN O.: >I must inform you that the Woozy was so ashamed of his Boxer relations that >he wasn't quite on the square ... ^^^^^^ No comment. :) > ... with you when he dissed and denied them. Oh okay...disregard what I said above....My Woozy cladogram is legit. :) OZ COLLECTOR: IMHO the best way to ensure continuing to receive BoW's catalog is to be a member of the Royal Club of Oz. :) ANOTHER RANDOM OZ REFERENCE: Lister: Are you a man or a Munchkin? Rimmer (singing): "I'm off to see the Wizard..." -- From the (very weird) Britcom, _Red Dwarf_ "AND THE WINNER IS..." Well, I really thank everyone for their wonderful suggestions for a model for drawing Ozma. However, I must admit that in the end I've chosen someone that *no one* suggested...And the winner of the Ozma model contest is: The lovely British actress June Duprez, who played the beautiful princess in the famous 1940 version _The Thief of Bagdad_. So in my drawings for Ozma in my books, that's who she'll look like. Thanks again though, to everyone for their suggestions... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 28, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 04:10:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Gargoyles in Oz? 1) Robin, I'll have to ask Glinda if she'll lend me that lie-detecting pearl of hers to see if the Woozy's been telling me the whole truth about his origins. Anyone have her E-mail address? Though I must admit, the idea of a relationship between Boxers and the Woozy seems far fetched. I have been assuming that Boxers are merely humans with bizarre taste in clothing. 2) Peter, Nalrodi the Mind-Reader tells me that How the Wizard Saved Oz is about the Wizard's three visits to Mombi. Considering his accuracy, why do I think he's wrong. Prasmthrasm: Because last time I was in the future, I read the book, and it was about why the Wizard ate beans with a knife. 3) Dave, if I remember correctly, in Number of the Beast, the Hungry Tiger calls the Cowardly Lion Leo and in turn is called Rajah. Also: How can your cladogram be legit when you've never seen the Queasy? If there's one thing I'm guarranteeing, it's that she doesn't look like anything else I've ever heard of in the Oz universe. Nalrodi: She looks like a fire hydrant! Prasmthrasm: She looks like a bottle of cranberry juice! Quentin: What was the question? I've got to keep these fictional characters on a leash. Yes, they are all wrong. Nalrodi: And Dave's model for the Woozy in his illustrations is Bert from Sesame Street... Kabumpo: 4) As you can see, I'm staying up way too late and getting way too goofy, so I'll end on the title question: It has been mentioned that when the land of Naught is revisited in The Disenchanted Princess of Oz, it has been totally burnt to a crisp by the Wizard. Has anyone written anything in which this land and its inhabitants have been restored or in which it turns out that one or more Gargoyles have survived somehow? (If so, then I'm in trouble; I just wrote something on the one surviving Gargoyle...) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 12:57:21 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-27-96 Dave - AAARGH! I thought this was the one place where NOBODY would be mentioning elections. Danny - my message from yesterday was swallowed and digested by the university computers, but I tend to concur with others on the Emerald City issue. I think the Wizard was out to make the impression that the entire city was carved out of a single, humungous emerald; whereas in reality, the largest emeralds there are only about the size of a tennis ball. Not that I would mind having an emerald the size of a tennis ball. I was at a friend's house the other day, and looked through a book of posters illustrated by Maurice Sendak. One of the posters was for "Return to Oz". Do any of you know what, if any, was Sendak's role in the design for the movie "Return to Oz"? What occasion was this poster designed for? Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 06:59:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-27-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Queasy, part 2 > > Also: Strange. I was under the impression that you didn't have to watch > all Doctor Who episodes to enjoy them. Not that I wouldn't want to > eventually see them all... Even if you wanted to, you couldn't, since many of the early black-and-white stories from the sixties were trashed in the mid-70's, and are now either completely missing or incomplete. (In the BBC's defense, how were they to know about the forthcoming videotape revolution, and how many copies their "Who" tapes would sell?) > n + 1) Daniel, apparently the Scarecrow decided to have real emeralds > installed during his four years as king. As to why Ozma decided to > abolish the green glasses, perhaps because she knew they weren't needed > since she hadn't been blinded when she had previously visited the Emerald > City as Tip. But the emeralds were there all the time, the Wizard had them put there. The glasses were just to enhance the effect. > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: The Emerald City of Oz > > Eric, I thought the "March Laumer gossip decree" thing was an obvious joke. > It was not meant to be taken seriously, any more than the e-mail messages from > Oz, and I apologize if it confused or irritated anyone. YOU know it was a joke. *I* know it was a joke. But would everybody reading it have realized it was a joke? I don't think so, not everyone has been reading the Digest from the beginning, and can tell what's serious and what's not. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy DIgest > > IMHO, there is a world of difference between L. Frank Baum sitting down and > writing an actual book and just spinning bedtime stories to pass the time. But Tyler, that's exactly how "The Wizard of Oz" started in the first place! > Peter Glassman: > Speaking of this issue, can we order BOW stuff over the internet? (If I may be so bold as to answer for you, Peter): Books of Wonder, AFAIK, has no connection to the Internet. Peter Glassman reads the Digest from his own private, personal account, and he tries not to use it for business. So so far, no chance of ordering from BoW via the 'Net. And I think it's something they should definitely consider. > From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-22-96 > > Thanks for the kind words, Eric, but the phone number you gave is for ordering > and customer service concerning orders already placed. To request a catalog, > it's best to call our corporate customer service line at (800) 207-6968. Oops. Mea culpa. > Anthony Van Pyre: > If you received our general "introductory" Oz Collector as well as > another issue... Hello, I've never gotten THIS! Guess I have to call that number and get one. (Yes, I save ALL of my BoW catalogs! And I want a complete set!) > and found nothing of interest to you in them, then you either: 1) have an > incredibly large, complete collection already with no interest in adding new > titles; 2) have a very narrow range of collecting which we don't meet; 3) > collect very eclectly. There is, sadly, a fourth option: poverty, or at least higher priorities for money. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > TYLER: > >Definitely, yes. We need big huge Oz map pins to spread the word! :-) > > Or how about badges of Oz characters? What with it's being an election > year, I was thinking having an "Ozma for President" badge made up for me. :) Oh, no, not a rerun of the ozlection in "Wonder City"... > ANTHONY'S GRAMMAR ISSUE: > More complaints are coming in about Anthony's grammar and lack of > punctuation, and while I see people's points, I really feel the Digest > should not be a forum for people's judgements about other people's > writing style, so instead of posting the individual comments people > have sent regarding Anthony, I am asking that we not publically embarass > him on the Digest any more than I'm afraid I may be doing right now with > this message, but instead please E-mail Anthony privately with > your concerns about his writing. Thanks. FWIW, I've decided not to worry about it, it's really a non-issue, like Tyler's non-use of possessive apostrophes. The only time I've commented on Anthony's writing style is when he wrote something so long that I couldn't figure out WHAT he was saying. Let it drop, everyone. > ERIC: > >I don't care HOW "big" tattoos are, I'm still not going to do it. (Or > >pierce my ear or any other part of my body, for that matter.) > > Bear was just kidding. ( At least I *HOPE* he was! :) :) :) ) Well, just in case he wasn't, I wanted to make my stand clear. > OZ COLLECTOR: > IMHO the best way to ensure continuing to receive BoW's catalog is to be > a member of the Royal Club of Oz. :) Even that may not cut it, since they are separate functions. > ANOTHER RANDOM OZ REFERENCE: > Lister: Are you a man or a Munchkin? > Rimmer (singing): "I'm off to see the Wizard..." > > -- From the (very weird) Britcom, _Red Dwarf_ Anybody want to hear the two "Wizard of Oz" references that I know of in "Doctor Who"? (And yes, go watch "Red Dwarf.") --Eric "Hmm, 'Red Dwarf in Oz'..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 10:54:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-27-96 on the point of dr who it is not in any way shape or form necessary to watch every episode as for the book mentioned other then the dorthy in oz i havent read baums descedents books but i will say this someone posted baum only wrote oz books later on because he needed the money while that may be so if you have seen the movie made about him you would know that he told his kids oz stories for years before ever writing anything down so who is to say he wrote all the stories he told i myself as a poet get snatches of poems and while ill tell someone them or perhaps a whole poem i dont get the chance to write them all down now for the oz wonderland war i do beleive i can get a couple copies of this for folks who are interested now on to about how i write i stated my point on this before please do either of 2 things 1 quit reading my posts or 2 if you have a problem with how i write then email me personally dave has nothign to do with how i write nor should he have to see complaints about it they should be directed towards me not to him or everyone on the list ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 11:46:47 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-27-96 Aaron: Piglets are born about the size of the average full-grown cat; they're bigger than mice at an early embryonic stage. I don't think they were -that- young! Maybe you'd only have to watch a lot of other Dr. Who episodes to enjoy the one that I did watch; maybe it wasn't a typical one. But the one I watched clearly assumed the viewer knew a lot of stuff about the Dr. Who universe that didn't need explaining, and it made no sense whatever to me. Something like reading, say, Chapter 10 of THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ with no other exposure to Oz at all... I like SILVER PRINCESS and OJO both, about equally. But they're very different in style, and it's easy to see why two people could differ about them as strongly as you and Dave do. Both are tourish, but then most of Thompson's books (with the exceptions of SPEEDY, WISHING HORSE, and HANDY MANDY) are primarily tours. And I thank you and others for mentioning other places that have been visited more than once in Oz books. It had slipped my mind that one scene in WH takes place at Jo King's palace. Out of curiosity, why do you reverse your emoticons from the way everyone else does them? Spending too much time reading Hebrew? :-) Eric: Agree with your statement about canon - though I don't think respecting everyone else's personal canons precludes arguing with them about it, as long as it's done politely and respectfully. YMMV. Robin Helfrinch sounds right for the name of the lady selling the Winkie T-shirts. I remember the "Robin" for sure. Steve: The Stars Our Destination was the second bookstore I knew of that carried GLASS CAT; it's the only one where I've actually seen it on the shelves. If Borders stores in general are carrying it, the one in Naperville either didn't get it or has sold out (along with selling out of all the non-Baum BoW titles), because I've checked its displays several times recently. (Well, not since Friday, May 17; maybe I should try again, if this is a really recent development.) Incidentally, was the copy of GLASS CAT you purchased at TSOD autographed? I was in there on March 3 and autographed the only copy they had left at the time. I've been told that that precludes a store from sending the copy back to the publisher... :-) (I did get permission to do it; I don't sneak around autographing, though I've heard of authors who did.) I agree that WISHING HORSE is Thompson's best Oz book. In fact, I think it's the best Oz book, period; WIZARD is more seminal, and MERRY-GO-ROUND is better crafted, but WH remains my personal favorite of the whole series. (This may be slightly influenced by the fact that it was the second Oz book I ever read, at age 5, and was a wonderful introduction to the sheer scope of the world of Oz, but I've reread it - and all the other FF books - many times, including recently, and it's still my favorite.) Tyler: I don't believe the Wizard was involved in the construction of the YBR, either. I was thinking that Randy never actually visited Regalia in PURPLE PRINCE, but had forgotten a scene or two with Uncle Hoochafoo showed it to us. And visiting the Lollies and Pops three times in the same book (SCALAWAGONS, for the record) doesn't really count; lots of places qualify by that standard. I was thinking of places that are visited in more than one book. Right, I was following the Salic Law on descent. And I agree that Royal Historian of Oz isn't a hereditary title, but an office. (With no authority to grant it any more. Or at least, no way to readily verify its granting. I assume Ozma could designate a new RH, but she doesn't seem to be communicating with a large number of people these days. Maybe she's too busy smooching with Dan...) Peter Glassman: Who's doing the new illustrations for ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW? I didn't think Nesbit's THE MAGIC CITY was that rare; I picked it up (along with copies of her THE MAGIC WORLD and a children's book by Oscar Wilde, the name of which I forget - something about a giant) in a very nice new edition maybe ten years ago, on the remainder table at B. Dalton. But WET MAGIC I haven't seen. Dave: It's true that there isn't much direct evidence for race among native Ozites, aside from the illustrations, but on various occasions the authors and characters do comment on the race of specific characters (e.g. the Tottenhots [in the original version of PG], the Silver Islanders, and Jinnicky's servants/slaves). This seems to be an indication that if other characters had been non-European in appearance they'd have mentioned the fact. And when a character of unspecified race -is- described in physical detail, it's always as a Caucasian (typically blue eyes and blond or red hair). AOL only gives you four hours of connect time for the $9.95 a month, but I've never had a problem with exceeding that. About all I do is E-mail, though, and that doesn't take much connect time, though it takes a lot of time at the computer! That's why I don't do Web-surfing and the like, though; I believe the rate is $3/hour for hours above the included four. All the writing on the Winkie T-shirt is on the back; the front only shows a map of Oz (relatively small and discreet, where a pocket might go and about that size) with the western quarter colored bright yellow and the rest left the gray of the background. My body contours are even less Olympian than yours, and I have no problem wearing it. If you're not familiar with Edgar Rice Burroughs' Mars books, then the titles of my Oz short stories won't mean anything to you. That series starts of with "A Princess of Mars", "The Gods of Mars", "The Warlord of Mars", and "Thuvia, Maid of Mars". So I've already written "A Princess of Oz" and "The Gauds of Oz", have "The Werelady of Oz" in progress, and plan "Jellia, Maid of Oz" for next year. Hence Barry's . (Although you attributed it to Eric, which will probably cause yet more confusion...) I've seen the 1940 THIEF OF BAGHDAD several times, and remember the princess as being truly beautiful, but don't have a mental picture of her that's clear enough to decide whether I agree with you that she's a good model for Ozma. One of these days I'll probably rent it and watch it again, and I'll keep Ozma in mind when I watch her. (Not that my opinion matters to anyone but me, but still...) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 13:34:15 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 5-27-96 Greg Boyle: Referring to your comment on the slowness of delivery from the IWOC, you must realize that since Fred Meyer's illness, many club officers and other volunteers are handling his various duties, and we all appreciate their efforts and should cut them some slack. Dave: Good choice for your Ozma model. :) Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 14:52:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest Anthony: As for MY take on the canon, you will have to wait two weeks at least. Obviously, as Eric says, in the final analysis you and you alone must decide for yourself which books you believe to be canonical, Historically Accurate, some combination of the two, or any gradation of them. However, the issue can and should be discussed openly. Dave: Well, with an AMIGA, your options are severely limited. Someday, maybe you can scrape up the dough to get a PC. :-) On Ozzy Tastes: Opinions can vary even within one individual. For example, I usually prefer books with strong plots, but _Captain Salt_, one of my favorites, is almost entirely episodic, or tourish. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 13:18:46 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Tyler, et al-- Is Abbott's How the Wizard Came to Oz just inaccurate to the FF, or what? I was thinking of getting this book, although I would prefer to continue getting my FF collection complete first. After reading Unexplored Territory, the outline of Diggs' arrival in Oz sounds like it could make a pretty interesting and adventurous story. As funds are tight now, I would prefer to get some of your opinions on this book before I buy. (I wish I would have with Cosgrove-Payes Wicked Witch. . .) WASPish characters-- I brought this up not because I think Baum's books are somehow de-valued by the abscence of political correctness. (I always wonder, though, what the Native Americans think with Baum's continual need to create an "american" fairy tale.) I am amazed, though, of Baum's ephasis on feminist themes throughout his books, and it seems that if he was so ahead of his time in one area. . . oh well. My final thoughts would be to encourage everyone to read a character how it feels best to you (if that ain't PC, I don't know what is!) For example, I am reading SEA FAIRIES, and the character Sacho sounds like he would be Spanish, so he is to me. Scraps has always seemed African Amercian to me, but that may be because she reminds me of my friend. If you accept ROYAL BOOK, would Scarecrow be Chinese? I guess Tititi-hoochoo would be Asian, in a way. Stretching things a bit, I suppose Lion (AKA Cowy ) could be African, and Hungarian Tiger [sic] would most likely be Indian. Who knows their taxonomy enough to say which Kabumpo is? Wasn't there a kangaroo and a camel in Thompson's books as well? The wonderful thing about Oz books is they way ANYONE can be included as a friend, hero, and even legend. This goes for people, animals, creatures, and animate objects. Instead of calling America a melthing pot, we should invoke the Oz image of America: the Flying Gump. Kinda gets ya right here, OOPS! Long post, sorry! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 16:51:26 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-27-96 David Hulan (replying to Homer): >Books of Wonder seems to have subcontracted their mail-order business - at >least for Oz stuff - to some outfit in New Hampshire. At least, that's where >all the mail orders I've placed to them recently have been shipped from. I >haven't had any problem with undue slowness (BoW has never been speedy; if >you expect to receive anything from them in less than a month after you order >then you're being overoptimistic), and all my orders have been filled. Actually, David, I think you're being a bit unfair with the one month comment. Having reviewed your orders, I noted that you tend to order items a month or two prior to their announced publication date so as to take advantage of our frequent pre-publication discounts. That would explain your frequent waits. But if you order something currently available, you should receive it within one to two weeks, which is fairly standard for most mail order companies. However, if you are placing orders for previously issued items and not receiving them promptly, please let me know, because that means our fulfillment house isn't doing what they're being paid to do. Tyler Jones: >Can we order BOW stuff over the internet? No, not at this time. I am not comfortable yet with the transmission of credit card data over the internet and until security improves dramatically, we will not be taking orders over the internet. Dave Hardenbrook (re: THE OZ COLLECTOR): >IMHO the best way to ensure continuing to receive BoW's catalog is to be >a member of the Royal Club of Oz. :) I hope you have another reason for belonging to The Royal Club of Oz, Dave, becasue we don't actually send catalogs to all members, unless they order their membership through offer in The Oz Collector. For those unfamiliar with The Royal Club of Oz, you can check our Dave's FAQ or Piglet's web site. Or if you would like to receive a free informational pamphlet, just call our toll-free number (800) 207-6968 or fax us at (212) 989-1203. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 21:31:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls On BOW's behalf - I have been ordering, using their much appreciated 800 number for years - lots of them - and have never had any problem. If they had an e-mail address I would like that just as much. How many more years do you suppose it will be before everyone in the country has an e-mail address? David - I think "Dr. Who" is a generational thing. I have yet to run into anyone in our generation who enjoys it. How did you feel about "Lost In Space? By the way, it is great to have you back in the Digest. Now Eric - It will only hurt a little, little bit. And your students will really dig it. (or whatever the current expression is) :) :) Dave & Peter - I have Kendall's "The Firelings," "The Gammage Cup," "The Whisper of Glocken," and "The Big Spash." What I have never been able to find are "The Other Side of the Tunnel" 1957, and "The Minnipins" 1959. I would pay any reasonable price for these. I don't think either is in print. If there are others besides these, I would REALLY like to know about it. Bookish regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 23:12:31 -0500 From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) Subject: Volkov translations steller wrote: > _Tales of Magic Land I and II_ can be ordered directly from Peter > Blystone at the address I gave last week. Could you please either post ordering info (address and prices) again or email them to me? Thanks- greg ====================================================================== Date: Monday 27-May-96 20:02:55 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Digest AARON: >Anyone have [Glinda's] E-mail address? The Adepts tell me that Glinda keeps her E-Mail address so confidential that even *they* don't have it! But maybe they can deliver the message to her Snail-Mail... :) >... in Number of the Beast, the Hungry >Tiger calls the Cowardly Lion Leo and in turn is called Rajah. Rajah is about as original a name for a tiger as Leo is a for a lion... :) (Non-Ozzy trivia question: Who are the *two* tigers in the Disney universe who are both named Rajah?) >Also: How can your cladogram be legit when you've never seen the >Queasy? If there's one thing I'm guarranteeing, it's that she doesn't >look like anything else I've ever heard of in the Oz universe. By definition, if the Woozy and the Queasy are siblings (i.e. about as closely related as they could be), then she *MUST* be on an adjecent phylogenic branch to the Woozy no matter *WHAT* she looks like! :) GILI: >Dave - AAARGH! I thought this was the one place where NOBODY would be >mentioning elections. Sorry, Gili -- I forgot you guys are having an election too. :) Actually, there will be no further discussion of elections here for the simple reason that all potential rivals (Jenny Jump, Jinjur, etc.) are laying low, and so a Special Election is not imminent, at least not in the next 400 years. :) PETER: >I hope you have another reason for belonging to The Royal Club of Oz, Dave... FWIW, Yes I do! I love the club and the _Emerald City Mirror_! DAVID H.: >Out of curiosity, why do you reverse your emoticons from the way everyone >else does them? Reversed smilies/emoticons are usually an indication of left-handedness. >I've seen the 1940 THIEF OF BAGHDAD several times, and remember the princess >as being truly beautiful, but don't have a mental picture of her that's clear >enough to decide whether I agree with you that she's a good model for Ozma. >One of these days I'll probably rent it and watch it again ... You mean you don't *OWN* _THIEF OF BAGDAD_??? :) :) :) (Seriously, it's one of my all-time favorite movies...No flames please, but I love it more than the MGM _Wizard_!) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 29, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 21:47:46 -0700 From: "W. R. Wright" Subject: Hello everyone.......I'm back after a two week absence. Spent the day catching up on the Digest.......it's amazing how much chatter goes on with only a small fraction of the Digest address list being the principal contributors. If everyone decided to change from lurking to talking it would be a BIG digest. Anyway, I'm headed for Norway for the rest of the year. So Dave, please take me off the Digest list effective 1 June, and on 5 June add me back on using the following email address: kurs1@computas.no. I'm going to miss not seeing everyone at the conventions this year..........this time next year at the OzCons. Cheers, Bill Wright ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 00:52:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 richard what is your generation i know folks from age 7 to age 45 who enjoy dr who as well as older also does anyone other then me have the all i ever needed to know i learned from the wizard of oz print? hugs anthony van p yre who thinks the girl who played ozma in the old black and white oz films that baum did was a great ozma ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 01:03:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Reversed Smilies of Oz 1) Eric, I remember from Doctor Who that one of the companion characters, Ace, kept wishing she was from another planet, and eventually it turned out to be true. Her real name is Dorothy. Now what is the other reference? Also: Unfortunately we don't get Red Dwarf in NYC either. 2) David, uh, maybe the Nine Tiny Piglets are mutants... Also: Actually (: is Hebrew for :) . 3) Tyler, A PC? Why should Dave help support Bill Gates's evil empire? Dave should get a Mac! (: ***WARNING: SPOILER FOR HOW THE WIZARD CAME TO OZ*** 4) Daniel, the major problem with How the Wizard Came to Oz is chronology. The parts involving the Wizard and the Wicked Witches are fine, but Abbott just had to involve the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodman, and the Cowardly Lion, and thus to make his chronology work the Scarecrow's creation took decades, the Tin Woodman stood rusted in the forest for thirty years, and the Cowardly Lion probably was magically rejuvinated at some point. Either that or the Adelmanian-Jonesian date for the arrival of the Wizard, 1868, is way off. I suspect that Abbott's informant got more than one story confused. ***END SPOILER*** 5) Dave, see 2), part 2. Actually I'm right-handed. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 01:18:54 -0500 From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) Subject: IWOC DIXNAM@aol.com wrote: > Referring to your comment on the slowness of delivery from the > IWOC, you must realize that since Fred Meyer's illness, many club officers > and other volunteers are handling his various duties, and we all appreciate > their efforts and should cut them some slack. I do understand the situation...Sorry if I sounded peeved, but I've had quite a frustrating experience. I was actually pointing out that BoW does pretty good- I've never had an order from them take more than 2 weeks... gre ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 06:03:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Amanda Elizabeth Schaible Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi Dave and everyone reading the digest! I would like to respond to Anthony's post, in which he stated, "someone posted baum only wrote oz books later on because he needed the money while that may be so if you have seen the movie made about him you would know that he told his kids oz stories for years before ever writing anything down so who is to say he wrote all the stories he told". I assume you are referring to the movie from a few years back starring John Ritter, which I would hope nobody would take as a serious factual accounting of LFB's life. Personally, I believe anything portrayed in that movie even less than I believe the fable that LFB came up with the name for Oz by looking at his file cabinet drawers. (One A-N, and the other O-Z, hence Oz.) The artistic license they may have taken in making that could have been boundless, and most likely was. I entirely agree, however, with your point that he may very well have unfinished stories which were not recorded. This, more likely than not, was the case as any one of us with our active imaginations can attest to. It would probably have been impossible for him to write all of his ideas into finished works, and probably took many of his half-baked ones with him across the shifting sands. Though it seems unlikely that he made this point on his deathbed. --Liz Schaible SCHAIBLE-AE@Worldnet.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 02:09:56 -0400 From: Athos4@aol.com Subject: J "There's really no doubt," said the prof. "The Yin and the Yang must bug off. Twoness is false; therein is no truth. It is chaos which ruleth -- forsooth!" "I hear and I reck' " piped the prole, "that you're really sincere in your role. Example: your script, so mixed and replete with der's, die's, la's and le's -- not a treat!" Is the "J" for jollity, or joking, or joker? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:00:35 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 You don't need Glinda's e-mail address in order to write to her. Any e-mail that has the word "oz" in the subject heading appears in an addedendum to her magic book of records. If the message is of personal interest to her, she will contact you privately. :-) (Just so Eric will not say I am spreading misinformation: this is my MOPPet.) Gili ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:04:09 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: African-Americans in Oz Danny, I wouldn't fault Baum for not being "PC" given the era, when the concept of not using terminology that offended other groups was sketchy or absent and ridiculous caricatures of the concept (such as _Politically Correct Bedtime Stories_) would be beyond comprehension. I think there have been a few mentions of skin color scattered about which would establish most Ozites as being Caucasian. Baum did make a few attempts at diversity with mostly negative results, though if I remember correctly the Tartar chief in _The Master Key_ was depicted somewhat positively. There is actually a non-white character I've wanted to follow up on. In _The Wishing Horse of Oz_ there is a passing mention that the book with the spell that brings Benny to life came from a "dusky" person, meaning there's an African-American wizard out there with a reason to go on a quest for a book... Dave, I've never even heard of _Theif of Bagdad_, so stop picking on David Hulan. Dave (again), your reasoning about the place of the Queasy in the cladogram does not work if the Queasy is adopted. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:41:43 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 Anthony: I saw the movie about Baum; however, I don't regard it as accurate biography (although I enjoyed it very much). Certainly Baum told his children stories when they were young. Some of them might have been about Oz. But there is no evidence I know of that the Oz books by his descendants are based on such stories, and a good deal that they weren't (first and foremost, the stories themselves, which depict an Oz very different from Baum's). Danny: HOW THE WIZARD CAME TO OZ is Abbott's best book so far (IMHO), and worth getting in the PB edition. (I'm not sure it's available any more in HC anyhow.) It's very short, though. Not Historically Accurate, but an enjoyable look at pre-Dorothean Oz. Thompson wrote of the Comfortable Camel and the Doubtful Dromedary, as well as various other animals like Pigasus the flying pig and Ozwald the Oztrich, but I don't remember a kangaroo in any of her books. Baum had one in EMERALD CITY, along with a zebra and a soft-shelled crab, and there were all kinds of animals in MAGIC. The animal inhabitants of Oz seem to have been from many continents; oddly, the only continent without any definite representatives as Oz natives I can think of is North America. Bears and wolves are mentioned, but they occur on other continents. (Well, I don't recall any penguins, so Antarctica isn't represented either.) Peter Glassman: I naturally make allowances for things ordered before the publication date, but have rarely gotten things I've ordered that I know are available in as little as two weeks, though it might have been a bit less than a month. For a recent example, I ordered a batch of copies of GLASS CAT on December 9, after I'd already received one batch, and it didn't arrive until sometime after I left to visit my mother in Tennessee on January 9 - I was gone for a week and it was there when I got back, so I can't give an exact date of arrival. This may have had to do with the Christmas rush and the fact that the package had to cross the diagonal of the country, though. But the items are almost always worth the wait (SPECKLED ROSE being the only exception I can think of), and usually I'm not in any big rush for them, so I don't consider it a real problem. Bear: I thought "Lost in Space" was silly, but frequently fun. I didn't watch it all the time (I don't watch anything on TV all the time, and never have), but if I happened to think of it I usually turned it on. I liked Hans Conreid. I think I've seen Kendall's "The Minnipins", though I don't think I've read it and know I don't own it. Never heard of "The Other Side of the Tunnel" or "The Big Splash". Dave: Two tigers in the Disney universe named Rajah? The one in "Aladdin" is obvious; my guess is that the other one would be in "Dumbo", but that's only a guess. I don't actually remember such a character. I also remember a zoo scene from one of the Seventies animated cartoons that might have had a tiger in it (though I mostly remember beavers) - "The Aristocats", maybe? The Korda THIEF OF BAGHDAD is one of my all-time favorite movies, too, although not as high as the 1939 WOZ. Still, it probably makes my Top Ten. (#1 for me is the fairly obscure but wonderful START THE REVOLUTION WITHOUT ME.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 08:22:17 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 Bear: I believe you are looking for a book you already have. "The Minnipins" is, I believe, the name under which "The Gammage Cup" was issued in the UK. Gilli: >I was at a friend's house the other day, and looked through a book of >posters illustrated by Maurice Sendak. One of the posters was for "Return >to Oz". Do any of you know what, if any, was Sendak's role in the design >for the movie "Return to Oz"? What occasion was this poster designed for? Sendak was the producer's first choice for designing the look of the film. The piece in the poster book was one of the designs he created for them. They were all set to sign him up to do the film until they learned he wouldn't be available to start on the project for 2 - 3 years. They decided they could not afford to wait for him and so hired someone else. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:43:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 From: Barb DeJohn Hi Digest!! Re: Emerald City In WWoO the travelers saw "a beautiful green glow in the sky before them." The wall that was around the city was a bright green color and the gate was "all studded with emeralds that glittered so in the sun that even the painted eyes of the scare- crow were dazzled by the brilliancy." pg 115 I think that the emeralds were certainly in the city that the Wizard built and a good bit of the city was probably green to give off the glow in the sky. The glasses were most likely worn to give everything else a green tint as well. As to the size of the emeralds, Dorothy stands on one at the end of Ozma of Oz to be sent back to Uncle Henry. By the picture it appears to be about the size of a basketball. I have ordered from BOW for a long time (when I was Smith instead of DeJohn) and I always order from the 800 number. I have only had one problem. When I ordered Queen Ann I had wanted the hard-bound signed edition and was told that they were sold out. I had missed the deadline only by a short time. I ordered the paperback instead and when it came it was slightly bent and then I found out the hard-bound was still available.( as it is even now for alot more money) I recently ordered "our Landlady" and I highly recommend it. It is a compilation of Baum's columns from 1890 with annotation by Nancy Tystad Koupal. It gives great insight into the times and Baum's sense of humor. Dave and David don't have Olympian bodies!! Gee, now I have to change my mental picture of you guys. :-) Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:48:00 -0700 From: steller Subject: OZ anthony: do not believe everything you see on television the dreamer of oz was a good program but was largely fiction sad but true Daviud Hulan: I do believe the _Glass Cat_ I bought at TSOD was signed (I bought it later in March), but I will be glad to get it personally signed at Ozcon. I cannot put _Wishing Horse_ before _Ozma_ as my absolute favorite Oz book (_Patchwork Girl_ is very high on my list.) Danny: Perhaps one reason that Baum was ahead of his time on feminist issues was because his mother-in-law was Matilda Gage one of the founders of the women's movement in the US (she broke with Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton because they were too willing to deal with bigots). He strongly supported the movement for women's suffrage in the South Dakota election of 1890 (you can read all about it in _Our Landlady_). The Kangaroo was in _Emerald City_ (and in March Laumer's _The Careless Kangaroo of Oz). There was a Comfortable Camel (and a Doubtful Dromedary) in _Royal Book_ and other Thompson books. General: I have just been re-reading _The Best of the Baum Bugle (1957-1961) available from IWOC for $2, and it is a great bargain. It contains (among many other things) Jack Snow's "A Murder in Oz" "An Ozzy Adventure" by RPT, poems and essays by RPT, material by Frank [Joslyn] Baum (probably his last writings because his obituary is also here), an otherwise unavailable poem by LFB and early Oz scholarship. I will send the address for ordering _Tales of Magic Land I & II later today Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:22:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest On the Woozy/Boxers: In Chapter 9 of _Silver Princess_, it implies that the Boxers are merely human beings who have put themselves in boxes to prevent wearing out, similar to the Preserves in _The Cowardly Banth of Oz_ (How about that for a groaning complement to Jellia, Maid of Oz?). It is doubtful in the extreme that the two are related. Eric (and a little bit of Anthony): Is is true that _The WIzard of Oz_ had its humble beginnings in the form of short stories that Baum told, but even so, these particular ones were bound into the first official Oz book. Also, there is little if any evidence that the stories that his descendants told specifically originated from L. Frank himself. Even if they were, I personally would not consider them canonical, although I can easily see that others would. This is a tenuous connection at best, and, based on reading all of Baum's books and those of his family, I do not believe that the other books originated from L. Frank Baum. David: It is interesting that all of the places that have been visited in more than one book were "normal" countries. None of the more unusual ones has ever appeared after their debut. Danny: Technically, _How the Wizard came to Oz_ is NOT inaccurate to the FF. It is a cute and amusing story detailing the Wizard's early days in the Land of Oz. The inaccuracy part derives straight from the HACC. While I am not finished revamping it, I can make a couple of quick statements here. To date, there are two books that mention the early history of the Wizard: The one above and _Oz and the Three Witches_. The books are incompatible due to details concerning some involvements of the Wizard's rise to power and the final battle between the Wizard and the Wicked Witches. In constructing my HACC, I had to choose. I chose _Oz and the Three Witches_, since I found that one to be more realistic, while _How the Wizard_ is a little cartoonish and one-dimensional. Also, some of the happenings are a little too unbelievable and soap-opera-like, even for Oz. Despite this, I would still recomend the book if you can afford it. It is not a bad story in itself, and to use your words, it is an interesting and adenturous story. It simply does not jibe with other non-FF stuff that has already been written and I chose the other stuff. You may decide to choose differently, especially since _Oz and the Three Witches_ is out of print. On my scale (which you can find on my web page), I would give this book two stars, or an average rating. However, I would strongly advise getting the entire FF first. This is the core of Oz and all else derives from it. You mentioned that funds are tight right now, so my advice is to concentrate your cash on the FF and then go wherever you decide with the non-FF stuff. More Books of Wonder stuff: (on delayed orders) Often in their catalogs, they will mention that a certain book will be published at a certain time, which is usually a couple of months after the catalog is sent out. Also, there is a disclaimer in there about delays involving some hand-crafted items. These are generally made (or printed) in small batches and I believe there is a two-fold purpose in this. 1) They need to wait until enough orders come in to make it profitable to make them and 2) They need to know how many to make. If they made a million items in advance and sold only a hundred, they would be in big trouble. Of course, some of these problems could be reduced if more people would order Oz books, and I believe that one of our goals should be to increase the Oz fan base. Bear: According to someone, internet presence double every year. I don't see this continuing forever, but in about 10 years or so, most people should have an e-mail address. Dave: I don't believe I've ever seen _Thief of Baghdad_. If I have a favorite movie, it is the Star Wars Trilogy. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 15:14:39 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Non-Oz trivia-- Two tigers named Rajah? Of course there is the one from Aladdin, but the other one required a bit of research. (Congradulations, Dave, you stumped even an animator on this one!) Technically, his name is _Raja_ and he appeared as the villain in the 1960 short _Goliah II_ about an elephant the size of a mouse. Nameless heroes-- Cowardly Lion, Hungry Tiger, West Witch, East Witch, et al. . . Hmmm, all this talk these past weeks (and more!) about characters who are never given a name makes me wonder if Nameless-ness would be a good topic for a Reaserch Table essay. . . Eric-- about your "fourth option" to Peter G, not having enough money or having money priorities-- I have a great quote about that, so wait til tommorrow! (I have to find it first!) Scanning my bookshelves, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 18:20:33 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: For the Ozzy Digest I spoke to Chris Dulabone, and due to some glitch in his new Internet carrier, he can indeed get E-Mail, but so far is unable to download them. All who wish to order Buckethead Books may do so by Snail mail from: Buckethead Enterprises of Oz 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM 87002 Seven Blue Mountains of Oz can also be ordered from: Harmony Arts 21 Hazelwood St. Asheville, NC 28806 All those who have attempted to call Chris by phone lately, and have only gotten a click--the Dulabone has not died. He merely got what he paid for by buying a $3.00 used phone which not only does not work, it does not ring properly so he does not know anyone is calling! He promised to have said defective phone removed. That's all for now! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:20:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-27-96 > > I was at a friend's house the other day, and looked through a book of > posters illustrated by Maurice Sendak. One of the posters was for "Return > to Oz". Do any of you know what, if any, was Sendak's role in the design > for the movie "Return to Oz"? What occasion was this poster designed for? My understanding is that he was initially approached to do some of the design work, and Sendak created that poster, but it never went any further. > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-27-96 > > if you have seen the movie made about him you would know that he > told his kids oz stories for years before ever writing anything down so > who is to say he wrote all the stories he told Do you mean "The Dreamer of Oz"? As good as it was, it was NOT the most accurate telling of Baum's life (remember, Baum had four sons, yet only three were shown in the film, to give but one example). The evidence seems to be that, unlike in "Dreamer," Baum did NOT spend years telling stories about Oz before writing down, it was just the latest one he'd been telling, and it caught hold of his imagination and he began writing it down. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 05-27-96 > > Maybe you'd only have to watch a lot of other Dr. Who episodes to enjoy the > one that I did watch; maybe it wasn't a typical one. That, I will agree, is entirely possible, especially one of the stories from the 80's. > Eric: > Agree with your statement about canon - though I don't think respecting > everyone else's personal canons precludes arguing with them about it, as long > as it's done politely and respectfully. YMMV. Debating, no; arguing to the point of making people angry and hurling insults, yes. (It hasn't happened here yet, but it's come close...) > Robin Helfrinch sounds right for the name of the lady selling the Winkie > T-shirts. I remember the "Robin" for sure. That's not saying a lot, considering how many Robins we've had at Winkies the past few years... > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 5-27-96 > > Greg Boyle: Referring to your comment on the slowness of delivery from the > IWOC, you must realize that since Fred Meyer's illness, many club officers > and other volunteers are handling his various duties, and we all appreciate > their efforts and should cut them some slack. Of course the Club has been slow on some deliveries even before Fred had to cut back... > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Now Eric - It will only hurt a little, little bit. And your students will > really dig it. (or whatever the current expression is) :) :) ??? --Eric "Hi, Liz!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 21:12:18 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: I'm back, did ya miss me? Dear Dave and other Digest people, Rinny and I tried to go with a cheaper Internet server, but that obviously didn't work out at all. We've missed out on all of our E-mail since I switched over. Now our old ozbucket@aol.com is back in action at last. This means a lot more $$$ will be leaving our possession. Oh, well... FWIIRP IN OZ is now in print. It has a full color cover, and includes chapters by everyone from the late Marcus Mebes to the digest's own Nate Barlow. And one was illustrated by Melody. It is $10.00. Next up will be The Tin Castle of Oz. I hope to get active again real soon! Any E-Mail that was sent to us since we switched to nmia never reached us. If there were any hurt feelings as a result of our lack of response, we're sorry. We really couldn't respond too well under the circumstances. Please try again. Well, I guess that's all for now. I have no idea what anyone has been discussing lately, so cannot respond to that, either. We've missed you all. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:46:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Ozma and the Wayward Wand ****WARNING: CONTAINS DISSING OF A LOUSY BOOK, INCLUDING SPOILING**** Ozma and the Wayward Wand, the last of the Random Housies, came in via ILL today. For an opinion, I turn the forum over to today's guest commentators: Bastinda the Wicked Witch of the West: It stank. Gingemma the Wicked Witch of the East: What my sister means to say is that Ozma and Dorothy were portrayed as wimps, security in the palace was displayed as incompetent, the wand in question is not the one Ozma has ever used, Ozma does not really leave powerful magical items lying where anyone can get at them, and Glinda is falsely portrayed as Ozma's fairy godmother. Such errors makes it look like the author knows very little about Oz and make it difficult for this book to fit into the regular series. Bastinda: And the writing style was dull. Gingemma: That too. ****END DISSING**** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 00:11:58 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Last Weekend's Ozzy Digests Back again! A lot to get caught up on... Anthony Van Pyre wrote: <> I don't think it works that way...not in Baumgea (sp?). Now, if you want to suggest the next official Royal Historian should be the 47th person to walk into Books of Wonder tomorrow, you might have a case! David Hulan wrote: <<"Guardy" as a nickname for the Guardian of the Gate may be the worst Thompsonian name in the FF, but I think "Cowy" for the Cowardly Lion in ENCHANTED ISLAND is distinctly worse.>> No argument there! He said (then) he liked it, but as far as I know, he was the only one who did! <> No, sad to say, Garth Williams is no longer alive. Nor, apparently, is my sense of the correct passage of time... Homer wrote: <> Definitely! Otherwise, the same thing would've happened to them that happened to Dorothy when *she* returned to California in LOST KING. Although the Wizard would have been considered the greatest magician of his time if the Nine Tiny Piglets from his hat had suddenly turned into Nine Big Hogs... Steve Teller wrote: <> I hadn't realized THE LAUGHING DRAGON OF OZ was a rewrite of a non-Oz original, which would seem to render its canonicity even more dubious (although the same might arguably apply to THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF OZ, or even RINKITINK IN OZ). How much are copies of THE DINAMONSTER IN OZ, and where can I order them? (It doesn't sound even as potentially canonical as LAUGHING DRAGON, but maybe I'm just a sucker for Oz books by the Baum family...) Bear wrote: <> Well, my mother (b. 1918) enjoyed it at least to an extent, and children's fantasist Diana Wynne Jones (born c. 1934) enjoyed it to more than an extent. She's freely admitted it heavily influenced some of her books, especially A TALE OF TIME CITY. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: << Even leniently speaking they're not in Oz... :) :) :)>> Well, nobody could be more "leniently speaking" than John R. Neill, I suppose, who (in LUCKY BUCKY) had Davy Jones refer even to the farther reaches of the Nonestic Ocean as being in Oz... <<(Non-Ozzy trivia question: Who are the *two* tigers in the Disney universe who are both named Rajah?)>> I assume you're talking about Disney cartoons, not comic books? Well, one is easy to get: the pet tiger belonging to Princess Jasmine in ALADDIN (the movie and the TV series that spun off from it). The other? Not very memorable, but he was in the short cartoon "Goliath II" (written, designed and directed by yet another illustrious children's fantasist, Bill Peet). Yes, I'll confess I had to do some research, in John Grant's invaluable ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WALT DISNEY ANIMATED CHARACTERS. (Actually, Grant spells *that* tiger's name Raja without the "h," but at least on screen, the name is identical.) Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 00:23:21 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: posts The Woozy toys I recently mentioned that are remembered by Baum's granddaughter, Ozma Baum Mantele, were advertised in "The Motion Picture News" of Oct. 24 1914. They are not the paper rocking toys that have been repproduced on the back of the Baum Bugle. Bob Baum (great-grandson) still owns at least one. The family may have others but I'm not quite that quick to pry into their possessions. Also, re. the paper rocking toys, Oz Club secretary Fred Meyer had a number of the reprints printed on heavy stock a few years ago for kids attending Ozmopolitan to play with. One of those reprints was what I sent Gili and no, I'm sorry, but I don't have more. I saved her one because she'd done such a nifty one for the Gazette. AND I'LL GO OUT OF MY WAY TO DO NICE STUFF FOR OZ GAZETTE CONTRIBUTORS (HINT HINT) (I know, Eric, but my debts to you have gained mamoth proportions). Eric G. for your local PBS Oz night, you might suggest video tapes of the Oz Film Manufacturing Company productions. I also know the Chadwick (1925) production is available to consumers on video -- I ordered it from a Barnes and Noble catalog a few years ago on VHS. The 1933 Ted Eshbaugh cartoon would be a shorter option. It was available at Walmart last summer. "Dreamer of Oz" might be OK if you can stomach perpetuating the historical inaccuracies (funny how they'll letter the publisher's window like it matters, then fail to mention a little thing like a fourth son... And don't get me started on how 5-month-old niece Baum never laid eyes on turned into that perfectly adorable little girl). A kinda recent Baum Bugle had a whole checklist of film productions. Unfortunately, my Oz storage closet looks like Fibber McGee's and I can't get near my Bugle files to give you the issue date. Gili: Blessings on your head for that reference to Sendak!!! I was sure he'd done something Ozzy, mentioned it to a researcher once then couldn't support it. I'd about given up hope of figuring it out. FYI all, I was disheartened that the traveling Smithsonian exhibit presented as fact the 1964 Littlefield theory about Oz as a parable on populism. It plays when you listen to back up information while viewing the Ruby Slippers. So, rather than pout in silence, I photo-copied some articles from the 1994 Bugle, letters to the NY Times editor refuting the theory (including one from Littlefield); and David Parker's (Digest contributor ) article from the Journal of the Georgia Assoc. of Historians and sent them to the curator of the Ruby Slippers. At least they'll have food for thought next time they right Oz history. Oz T-Shirts: as the proud (?) owner of 50 or so Oz T-Shirts, I eagerly recommend Lee Jenkins Mail order business, OzWorks as a source for them. She also has jackets, socks, neckties, jewelry (both lovely and tacky) and other wearables. She's at 153 East Main Street, New Albany, IN 47150 (812)941-9028 e-mail her at: ozzilee@aol.com Every tourist shop in Kansas/Kanssas CIty also seems to carry a Oz Ts, boxers, ball caps and other stuff produced by a company called The Resort. But they don't sell direct to consumers. You've got to drive through the area to find them. The Resort also is using generic art and taking advantage of MGM popularity, so many a Baum/Oz fan would not find the type of stuff they are looking for. Bill Wright: One person who completed a centennial questionaire mentioned that they had recordings from the original turn-of-the-century stage play. E-mail me privately if you are still looking for them and I'll get you together. THEME PARK NEWS The Kansas City Business Journal devoted a lengthy cover story to the Oz Theme Park. Titled "Royalty in Oz" its main "news" is that Saudi Arabian Prince al-Waleed binTalal has "agreed to provide equity financing for the $440-million, 3,500 acre project." When I (personally) first learned of his support of the project I understood he wished to remain anonymous so I didn't provide his name when a Herm beiber Digest post characterized him for Digest readers. Let us hope that the exposure thrust upon him by KC Business Journal, which is infamous for refusing to leave well enough alone, will not lesson his interest. The article is about 20 column inches and I'm not up to input that much. Sufffice it to say they mostly brought up rumors and declared them as such -- an improvement over perpetuating them, at least; talked about the land use plan;discouraged hoopla ("I didn't want to see any munchkins until ground-breaking" said the mayor) until every t is crossed. Skip Palmer, president of the project and former Walt Disney executive is quoted. The article reports that "Prince al-Waleed is the single biggest shareholder of banking giant Citicorp with a 9.9 percent intests. He also owns 24 percent of EuroDisney SCA, has a 50 percent sales stake in the Fairmont Hotel Management chain and owns major interests in the real estate, tetailing and broadcasting industries." He is a partner with that other Scarecrow -- Michael Jackson -- in some entertainment interests. When that particular partnership was mentioned, theme parks were included in the list of stuff they'd be supporting (although the gloved one is not involved in Oz). Surely that's more than enough Jane stuff. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 01:15:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Mark Anthony - Thanks for your thoughtfulness - I select option 1. Briefly, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 28-May-96 22:53:40 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DANNY AND RICH: You both got it! The two Rajahs are respectively in _Aladdin_ and _Goliath II_ (pronounced "Goliath the Second"). DAVID H.: >I thought "Lost in Space" was silly, but frequently fun... I always prefered the show (from MY generation's youth), _Space Academy_, which starred _Lost in Space_'s Jonathan Harris, as well as Pamilyn Ferdin, who played Felix's daughter on some episodes of _The Odd Couple_, and did some famous cartoon voices, including Fern in _Charlotte's Web_ and Lucy in the early Charlie Brown animations. End of today's 70's nostalgia segment. :) BARBARA: >Dave and David don't have Olympian bodies!! Gee, now I have to >change my mental picture of you guys. :-) Just don't go the other way! We're not built anything like Rinkitink *either*!!! :) :) :) TYLER: >I don't believe I've ever seen _Thief of Baghdad_. Then "run, don't walk" :) :) :) to your local video store and see it! (But make sure it's the 1940 version produced by Alexander Korda.) WELCOME BACK CHRIS DULABONE!!! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 30, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 05:13:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-29-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Reversed Smilies of Oz > > 1) Eric, I remember from Doctor Who that one of the companion characters, > Ace, kept wishing she was from another planet, and eventually it turned > out to be true. Her real name is Dorothy. Now what is the other reference? Er, she's from Earth (and Ace is a reference I'd forgotten about -- in one of the later novels after the show ended, it turned out that she was named for Judy Garland's most famous role). No, the two I was thinking of were: 1) Milo Clancey whistling some bars from "Over the Rainbow" in episode 2 of "The Space Pirates" (the story's incomplete, but you can see that episode on the videotape "The Troughton Years"); and b) In "Time-Flight," when the Doctor uses a Concorde to investigate a rip in time that caused another plane to disappear, the co-pilot asks something along the lines of "Look, supposing we DO go 'Over the Rainbow' or something..." > Also: Unfortunately we don't get Red Dwarf in NYC either. All six series of "Red Dwarf" are now available on videotape. > 3) Tyler, A PC? Why should Dave help support Bill Gates's evil empire? > Dave should get a Mac! (: Hear, here! (Okay, not the best thing for someone to say living in Redmond, where Microsquish is located, but I've been a Mac fan for years.) > From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 > > Dave and David don't have Olympian bodies!! Gee, now I have to > change my mental picture of you guys. :-) FWIW, when I get my hair cut real short, some people think I look like that Ah-nuld guy from Austria who's married to MAria Shriver. That is, I look like him from the neck up... > From: Ozisus@aol.com > Subject: posts > > Eric G. for your local PBS Oz night, you might suggest video tapes of the Oz > Film Manufacturing Company productions. I also know the Chadwick (1925) > production is available to consumers on video -- I ordered it from a Barnes > and Noble catalog a few years ago on VHS. The 1933 Ted Eshbaugh cartoon > would be a shorter option. It was available at Walmart last summer. Hmm, those are all good ideas. The problem with the silent movies, of course, is getting a soundtrack... > "Dreamer > of Oz" might be OK if you can stomach perpetuating the historical > inaccuracies (funny how they'll letter the publisher's window like it > matters, then fail to mention a little thing like a fourth son... And don't > get me started on how 5-month-old niece Baum never laid eyes on turned into > that perfectly adorable little girl). A kinda recent Baum Bugle had a whole > checklist of film productions. Unfortunately, my Oz storage closet looks > like Fibber McGee's and I can't get near my Bugle files to give you the issue > date. The problem with most Oz films, especially the more recent ones, is that somebody else owns the rights to them, and I doubt a little tiny PBS station in Tacoma, Washington can afford to show them, or has the legal muscle to wrangle them. So "Dreamer" is definitely out. > FYI all, I was disheartened that the traveling Smithsonian exhibit presented > as fact the 1964 Littlefield theory about Oz as a parable on populism. It > plays when you listen to back up information while viewing the Ruby Slippers. > So, rather than pout in silence, I photo-copied some articles from the 1994 > Bugle, letters to the NY Times editor refuting the theory (including one from > Littlefield); and David Parker's (Digest contributor > ) article from the Journal of the Georgia > Assoc. of Historians and sent them to the curator of the Ruby Slippers. At > least they'll have food for thought next time they right Oz history. Couldn't they have just looked at my FAQ ? --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 10:56:13 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-29-96 Bill: Have fun in Norway - the summer should be great, but if you're still there in December I don't envy you. (Though come to think of it, from what I've heard winters here in Chicago are worse than in most of Norway, except that it doesn't stay dark as long...) Anthony: Richard and I are both approximately 60, give or take a year. Aaron: I agree. Down with Bill Gates and his Evil Empire! Athos: Did you send your post to the wrong board? I don't remember anything in the Digest that your poem would relate to. Barry: Actually, Benny's coming to life is in GIANT HORSE, not WISHING HORSE. And "dusky" was a term often used even for Caucasians of relatively dark complexion (like Arabs, Spaniards, and Italians), so it wouldn't necessarily imply an African-American wizard. I think it much more likely that that character was from the Indian subcontinent, which is much more associated with wizardry of all kinds than Africa - especially in the 1920s. You really should see the 1940 THIEF OF BAGHDAD! Wonderful movie, with great special effects for the time. And Conrad Veidt is a great villain. It's easy to find at rental places. Peter Glassman: Just for the record, I revisited the Naperville Borders yesterday and they are indeed now carrying an extensive selection of ECP books, including GLASS CAT - although they either didn't order QUEEN ANN or had sold out of it already, because it wasn't on the shelf. They had two copies of each book they had except FATHER GOOSE; they only had one of that one, which may mean that they'd sold one copy of it. Barbara: As Dave says, we're not challenging Rinkitink, either, so don't shift your mental images of us -too- far! Steve: Be happy to personally inscribe your copy of GLASS CAT at Ozmopolitan, even if it's already signed. (Although consider the rarity value - you currently own the only signed PB copy of GC that -isn't- personally inscribed!) (There's a legend in SF fandom that copies of the publisher's edition of DANGEROUS VISIONS that aren't autographed by Harlan Ellison are worth more than those that are, because they're much rarer...) It's very close among WISHING HORSE, LOST PRINCESS, and OZMA for my top favorite Oz book of all time, but partly for sentimental reasons already mentioned I continue to go with WH. (And I would add PATCHWORK GIRL, RINKITINK, SPEEDY, and MERRY-GO-ROUND to my "A" list, though none of them challenges for #1.) Tyler: It is indeed interesting that all the places that have repeat visits in the Oz books are relatively "normal". I think partly that's because the only such places, except for the Truth Pond, are those associated with a continuing character, and except for those introduced in the first two books just about all the continuing characters are normal human beings or animals (Scraps and the Glass Cat being notable exceptions, but they live in the EC). It's also true that the great majority of the oddball places are from Thompson, although Neill and Cosgrove used them freely as well. Baum had the Dainty China Country, the Hammerheads, the Cuttenclips, Fuddlecumjig, Utensia, Bunbury, Thi, and Loonville; those are about it for him, averaging less than one a book, or exactly one per book if you don't count the six books that mostly take place outside of Oz proper. (If you count those books then I suppose you need to count the Wheelers, Mangaboos, Gargoyles, Scoodlers, and Rose Kingdom, which puts it back to just about one per book.) Pineville is the only really oddball place from Snow, and the Land of Good Children from the McGraws' is their only one (and the most bizarre in the whole FF, at that! ). I concur with your advice to Danny to get the entire FF first. (Well, he might add GLASS CAT to that...) Although in the case of a few of the Thompson titles, it's still not so much money as luck for finding them. I think OJO and PURPLE PRINCE are still hard to find, at least for under $50 or so, and I'm not sure about PIRATES and YELLOW KNIGHT, though I think the Del Rey editions of those may still be available in limited quantities from the IWOC. Melody: I'm hoping to have the opportunity to pick up your book, and other recommended BEOO books, at Ozmopolitan next month. If they aren't available there, I'll order them direct, but my preference is to see before I buy. Eric: I don't remember just when I watched the "Dr. Who" episode, but it was sometime in the early '80s, probably around '81 or '82. FWIW. True that there were at least three Robins I can remember from last Winkie, but the one with the Winkie shirts was not Hess or Olderman. Chris: Welcome back! But using AOL for E-mail shouldn't mean a -lot- more $$$ going out; I use it extensively for that and still never come close to using up my five (note: when I spoke of this a couple of days ago I was thinking it was four, but checked and it's five) free hours a month for the basic $9.95. If you use it for other things, like Web-surfing, it can add up, I agree. Aaron: None of the Random Housies was any good. MR. TINKER was probably the best, and it was worse than any other non-RH Oz book I can think of that I've read. (Even TOTO was better.) Rich: I don't know exactly when Milne and Travers died, but I know it was after we moved to Chicago, so it was sometime in April at the earliest. And based on Baum's description of their sizes, the Nine Tiny Piglets were not simply very young, but were midget pigs. So even if they grew up they'd presumably be very small for pigs - probably about the size of a normal piglet, actually. I bought my copy of DINAMONSTER at the Books of Wonder store in Beverly Hills, back when there was one. I don't know if BoW still stocks it or not; it isn't in the most recent OZ COLLECTOR. I think Buckethead published it; Chris Dulabone should be able to tell you if it's still available, now that he's back on-line. DINAMONSTER, incidentally, more nearly resembles Thompson writing on a bad day than Baum. Jane: Since New Albany is right across the river from Louisville, I assume Lee Jenkins will have a table at Ozmopolitan where I can see (and probably buy some of) her Oz T-shirts? I only have two Oz T-shirts at the moment, and would like more. (Had a couple of others at one time, but they were bought at a time when my physique was closer to the Olympian and farther from the Rinkitinkian, and I eventually gave them away to good homes on skinnier people.) Thanks for the update on the KC theme park. Dave: Don't think I ever saw - or even heard of - "Space Academy". But then, in -my- youth we didn't even have TV - or at least, my family didn't have one until I was nearly 16. (And we weren't all that dilatory; there'd been a station within reception distance for only a year or so.) I grew up on radio shows like "Captain Midnight" and "Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy". Actually, I once saw the silent THIEF OF BAGHDAD with Douglas Fairbanks, and it wasn't half bad. Never saw the Steve Reeves version from around 1960, though the novelization of it by Richard Wormser is one of those unexpected minor gems of fantasy that not many other people seem to know about. It should also be noted that the plots of the three movies (assuming the book reflects the plot of the 1960 movie) have almost nothing in common other than involving Baghdad, a thief, and a genie. But the 1940 one is the classic that everyone (at least, everyone who likes Oz) should see at least once. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 13:09:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Queasy 1) Barry, don't even think of telling the Queasy she's adopted! That's a nasty thing to tell a kid of her age! 2) Welcome back, Chris! As you are supposed to be knowledgeable of copyright law, could you please tell us if it is permissible at this point to use Joe King? Barry suggested that he show up in Lurline's Machine sometime after--Uh-oh! Kabumpo's coming. 3) Rich, if you're looking for a copy of The Dinamonster of Oz, I have a copy I picked up at the Strand which I was planning on trying to trade on the Net for something better, such as a Del Rey paperback of a Thompson book I don't have yet. The only catch is I've been waiting for Barry to read it, which he hasn't yet. I believe Buckethead sells the same book for $10; I'm willing to trade it for anything I don't have yet which is half the value (especially since I got it for about $5). Please contact me by E-mail if you're interested. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 13:33:15 -0400 From: David A Gerstein Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-28-96 DAVE: "(Non-Ozzy trivia question: Who are the *two* tigers in the Disney universe who are both named Rajah?)" The first is Jasmine's pet in ALADDIN, and the second (actually spelt "Raja") is one of the villains in the 1959 featurette "Goliath II", one of the better Disney shorts of the time (and which had its comic adaptation reprinted two months ago in WALT DISNEY'S COMICS AND STORIES #603). David Gerstein <96dag@williams.edu> ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:23:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Danny: I was in error yesterday. The inaccuracies in _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ are sufficient to render it Historically Inaccurate to the FF. I took the erros with the FF and translated them to the HACC, forgetting that the FF comes first. It is still an enjoyable story, though. Chris D: Welcome back! I obviously tried calling you when you had your cheapie phone, and I was afraid you had fallen into the Hollow Tube. Glad that you're back on-line. Rich Morris: IMHO, I don't think that the situation with the Piglets can be compated to what happened to Dorothy in _Lost King_. Here is my MOPPeT: When you are in Oz and choose not to age, your age is not supressed, with your lost years saved up someplace. Your aging process is halted, and the years are never generated in the first place. This is similar to turning off a light for one hour and then turning it on again. It will not glow twice as brightly for the next hour, since there electricity was not generated at all during the first hour. How, then did Dorothy age when she went to California? I believe that she had some extra wishing sand in her pocket and secretly wished to know what it would have been like to grow up. She aged for a while and then un-aged when she returned to Oz. This, IMHO, is even more unlikely to happen spontaneously. I believe that some more wishing sand was present and it interpreted her wish "I wish I were back" to mean both back in Oz and back to her original age. Granted, there is no evidence for this, but it is very doubtful that Dorothy would have aged all those years instantly upon returning to the outside world and even more unlikely that she would regress to being a little girl simply upon returning to Oz, without some additional magical help, such as the wishing sand. Also, if you look at my web page, you will see that _Dinamonster_ is available from Buckethead for $10.00. While the book is not Historically Accurate, it is a very well written story with an interesting afterword by Stephen Teller. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 17:06:40 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: 5-29-96 Ozzy Digest David Hulan: In your comments regarding the old TV show, "Lost in Space", you said you liked Hans Conreid. Isn't it Jonathan Harris you're thinking of? I don't recall Hans Conreid in that series. Barb DeJohn: What's new with that "little munchkin" of yours? Chris D. & Rinnie: Welcome back! :) Since you haven't been receiving the Digest lately, you haven't been aware of recent comments about late deliveries of Oz books, etc. In that regard, (and I don't mean this as a "shot" at Buckethead) I received the last of several books ordered from Buckethead after a considerable length of time. The apologetic letter that was enclosed with the book from your "Order Fullfillment Person", W. Randy Hoffman, a.k.a. "MABUDDY", had me on the floor laughing. The book (The Crocheted Cat in Oz") and the letter were well worth the wait!! As Mr. Hoffman paraphrased, "I'm a good man; I'm just a very bad warehousing agent". Great PR! (:-) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 15:10:47 -0700 From: steller Subject: Various anthony: i have that poster its framed in my library now what? Athos: Actually the J is for James, but I enjoy jests, jokes, and Jollity: Behold the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I was a moron. My God, perhaps I am! Everyone should know a little foreign language; I am trying to train a cat to bark, Barry: The spell that brings Benny to life in in _GIANT HORSE_! For shame! The *Sabu* _Thief of Bagdad_ is a great film; but the Douglas Fairbanks silent film.... wow! (The Steve Reeves version is not in the same league with the first two versions0. Rich Morissey: You, or anyone else, can get copies of _The Dinamonster of Oz_ by Kenneth Gage Baum (with a forward by Ozma Baum Mantele and an afterword by Stephen J. Teller, illustrated by Ozma's daughter Gita) for $10 postpaid. You can get them from me: Stephen J. Teller, 1610 S. Olive, Pittsburg, KS 66762. End of commercial. Eric: The three Oz Film Manufacturing Company feature films are available on VHS videotape from BoW and other places. They unfortunately do not have soundtracks. _Patchwork Girl_ is available with soundtrack from Video Yesteryear. One of the most interesting Oz related television events was an hour long program callled _The Whimsical World of Oz_ that was shown in 1985 before _Return to Oz_ was released. My copy, unfortunately has a defective sound track with pre-echo. The Aljean Harmetz program was aired about 1981-82, my print of it is even worse. I join my welcome backs (although for me it is a welcome since I was not on the Digest until he told me about it, and then HE was off) to Chris Dulabone!! Steve T. SJT ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 17:31:13 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Mission: Impossible in Oz Aaron, security in the palace never seemed to be too spectacular after _Wizard_. Case in point is the incident in _Handy Mandy in Oz_, in which a spy is able to get in and out fairly easily. (Though admittedly he was using disguises and Jellia never seemed all that bright.) In any case, how did you get two dead wicked witches to do a book review? (: ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 17:48:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-29-96 David: O.K., so your body's not Olympian. *I* think you're cute! Old space shows: I still have fond memories of CAPTAIN VIDEO. The show aired in the NYC area in (gulp) the '50s. I remember being torn between watching it or KUKLA, FRAN, & OLLIE. Too bad we didn't have VCR's in those days. Actually, if we did have 'em, I might have videoed the Shirley Temple version of LAND, which I was much too sophisticated as a teenager in the '60s to enjoy at all. Uh hunh. Ethnicity in Oz: Matiah in WISHING HORSE always struck me as a Jewish stereotype. "Metiah, son of Metorah, son of Metanic--merchants for...thousands of years," proclaims that infamous peddler. FYI, the torah is the heart of the Jewish religion; it consists of the first 5 books of the Old Testament. "Metanic" sounds too much like "Satanic" to me, but I dunno; it also sounds like mechanic, which is a relatively innocent word. Anyway, check Neill's illos. Apparently he assumed Metiah was a stereotype. He drew his one and only hook-nosed completely human character when he created him. And that nose is big! I'd forgotten the dusky gentleman in GIANT HORSE who sold the suit to Dan. The suit was sold in Grant Street. Any Bostonians out there who can tell us what that might have referred to in 1928? Thompson says "...the owner of Danny's dress suit must have been a powerful magician...," but she doesn't say which owner...the dusky gentleman or, perhaps, an earlier owner. Could the dusky gentleman have come by the suit secondhand and not have checked its pockets very well? I'd rather think he was, himself, a magician. I still wonder about that Grant St. reference, though. Hi, Chris! Can you come to OzCon this year? I'm gettin' longwinded. Bye! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 04:25:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Amanda Elizabeth Schaible Hello all! I just had to put in my two cents worth of agreement with David Hulan's opinions of the nicknames for the Cowardly Lion and the Guardian of the Gate. Those nicknames, which I don't even dare type at the risk of making myself ill, are absolutely putrid and sickening! Second, let me mention to Peter Glassman, that I adore Books of Wonder and all of the products. I don't like hearing too many bad things about anything, even if they are just about orders. To be honest, I haven't encountered problems with orders because I have bought most things either at conventions or at the enormous bookstore here in S.F. However, I have been so thrilled with my purchases, that I would consider any amount of time I would have had to wait for them a pleasure due to the anticipation of what was to come. I should be back on the mailing list now, so I guess I will see for myself. Finally, to everyone who contributes to the digest, I am having the best time reading all of your insightful comments and opinions. Thank you for sharing them with all of us. Liz Schaible ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 22:00:57 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Gili-- About Glinda having access to all .oz e-mail, you're making her sound more and more like FBI. . . (Hmmm, _A Conspiracy Theorist in Oz_) PC Baum-- That's right, David, no penguins! And someone else mentioned Thompson's quote about no snow in Oz. . . "Penguins of magic lands, unite!" Even now, the P.U., Penguins United, are beginning rallys at every person's house who is writing an Oz story, carrying picket signs and shouting "Hey-Hey, Ho-Ho, show some penguins and some snow!" The Raja(h) question-- Obviously Richard M. knows great animation source material when he sees it! Aarg! I can't find my quote I promised all of you! Now I know you'll be looking for it everyday now. . . Maybe next time, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 01:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Aaron - ) Tyler, A PC? Why should Dave help support Bill Gates's evil empire? Dave should get a Mac! (: I couldn't agree with you more over the relative merits of the MAC and the PC. However, you must not know that Microsoft software runs on MACs. I couldn't do without it. And.....just what makes Gate's empire evil? David - That wasn't Hans Conried. He was some of the voices in "Rocky and Bullwinkle" and made a lot of movies. In "Lost In Space," that was the continually evil Dr. Smith, played by ****** (here memory fails me, anyone remember?). "Come along Will Robinson, you'll do this for me won't you?" David and Peter - Thanks for your help. Sigh! In checking my books I can see how she might have named one of the books "The Minnipins." Now if I could just find "The Other Side of the Tunnel," which falls between "The Gammage Cup(Minnipins)" and "The Whisper of Glocken." "The Big Splash was her first book in 1960, and as far as I know, "The Firelings" was her last in 1982. Eric - That was getting tatooed! :):) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 31, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:40:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-30-96 stellar i was just curious about the poster i have it to and just another ozzie thing for folks to collect is all ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:56:21 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Oops! _Wishing Horse_, _Giant Horse_, what's the difference? (: I still think the character is worth following up on, which I intend to do. Robin, I always though Matiah was supposed to be a (very poor) attempt at an Arab stereotype, or at least hinting at that. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:06:34 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-30-96 Eric: FWIW, when I still had hair on top of my head and not on my chin, some people thought I looked like Edward G. Robinson. :-) Tyler: Suppressed aging when in Oz may or may not be analogous to turning off a light bulb. It might be closer to not checking your E-mail. But Dorothy's rapid aging in LOST KING does present some other problems if it's just due to her leaving Oz. There's no comparable effect when she leaves Oz for the Nome Kingdom, for instance, which she does in both RINKITINK and WISHING HORSE, yet we know that Ozian immortality doesn't apply in general beyond the Deadly Desert, even on the Continent of Imagination. For instance, why would Evoldo have traded his family to Roquat for a long life if he wouldn't have aged anyhow? And why would Zixi's perpetual youthfulness be remarkable? On the other hand, it would appear that wishes have to be voiced to be granted (this is definitely true for the Wish Way in RB; it's not certain for the one in LK). And in the context of what Dorothy was doing at the point where she suddenly started growing up, it seems highly unlikely that she'd even have been thinking about what it would be like to be grown up. She was too busy trying to figure Humpy out. But I guess your theory is possible, though I don't find it completely persuasive. Dick: I coulda sworn that was Conreid that played the bumbling villain in LOST IN SPACE, but it was 30 or so years ago and as I said, I didn't watch it all that often. Anyhow, I liked whoever played that role. Robin: Thank you. It's possible that Matiah was intended as a Jewish stereotype, but I've always thought of him as an Arab stereotype. Certainly his robe and turban are more associated with Arabs than Jews in American minds. Granted, there were plenty of Jewish merchants in Arabic countries, and some of them may have worn turbans, but I'd expect Neill to have used a different kind of depiction if he'd thought of Matiah as Jewish. (Stereotypical Arabs have big hooked noses as well, after all. And Neill drew the Wizard with what I'd consider a hooked nose, though maybe not as big as Matiah's.) Bear: I use Microsoft software on my Mac, too - both Word and Excel. But I don't consider MS application software evil. Windows is evil; DOS is evil; Gates is evil. Because he got - through no particular merit but an accident of history - an "in" when IBM chose MS-DOS as the OS for their PC when they decided to enter the PC market, and he parlayed that through intimidation and dirty tricks into a stranglehold on the OS market, even though his product is acknowledged by just about everyone to be no better than the fourth best OS around (after Mac, Amiga, and OS/2, and maybe Unix). However, this doesn't have much to do with Oz...except that I'm sure they don't use DOS or Windows on their PCs. :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:17:04 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 5-30-96 Danny: Digest subscriber Herm Bieber is a great source of reasonably priced FF Oz books. Steve Teller: I have a copy of "The Whimsical World of Oz" which you mentioned to Eric. The sound is pretty good, considering I taped it eleven years ago from a (IIRC) PBS airing. I recently made a copy for someone who researching LFB/Oz, and he was pleased with the quality of it. If you or Eric are interested, e-mail me privately. I'd be happy to make a copy for you. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:38:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Penguins in Oz 1) Daniel, you're right. Penguins have been bugging me all day, demanding to get mentioned in The Last Emperor of Oz and Mombi of Oz. 2) Bear, I know about Microsoft's Mac software, and I know that they do stupid things in writing their programs that no one else even thinks of doing. Horror story #1: When Multifinder first came out, allowing Macs to run more than one application at the same time, Microsoft Excel refused to run unless it was loaded into the first megabyte of memory. No other program had such a problem. Then when they fixed the problem, they promoted it as if it were a brilliant new idea. Horror story #2: When 68030-based Macs came out, Microsoft added code to its programs that wrote to the 68030's on-chip cache directly, even though Apple programming guidelines prohibit this. When the 68040-based Macs came out, these programs required that the on-chip cache be turned off just so they could run. Plus to this I'd like to add that Microsoft programs for features and not for elegance. Never have I heard it said "now it runs faster" or "not it requires less memory" of a Microsoft program, but always "now it wants more memory" or "now it runs slower". And when you add in bugginess... I call Microsoft an Evil Empire because they sell software at any cost. They don't care to make good programs, nor do they make innovative programs, but copy what everyone else does and promote it as if they came up with the idea first. If they hadn't gotten themselves entrenched in the industry, no one would want to buy their programs in the first place. As a matter of policy, I don't trust any of my data to Microsoft programs. I use NisusWriter instead of Word, and it not only reads Word files, it can do things Word can't do at all, like handle Hebrew properly. Now, what about Bill Gates as a villian in an Oz book? (: PS: The Chief of the Whimsies uses MS-DOS. Pass it on. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:56:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-30-96 Oi, what a commute I've had this afternoon, getting stuck in a ten-mile long parking lot of a traffic jam. Well, at least I have this nice Ozzy Digest to look forward to reading... > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-29-96 > > Aaron: > I agree. Down with Bill Gates and his Evil Empire! Er, that "evil empire" IS based here in my home town, you know! I like living in Redmond too much... > I concur with your advice to Danny to get the entire FF first. (Well, he > might add GLASS CAT to that...) And "Queen Ann"! > I'm not sure about PIRATES and YELLOW KNIGHT, though I think the Del > Rey editions of those may still be available in limited quantities from the > IWOC. No, the Club has only had the Del Reys up to "Jack Pumpkinhead" available for sale. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > From: steller > Subject: Various > > Eric: > The three Oz Film Manufacturing Company feature films are available on > VHS videotape from BoW and other places. They unfortunately do not have > soundtracks. _Patchwork Girl_ is available with soundtrack from Video > Yesteryear. One of the most interesting Oz related television events was > an hour long program callled _The Whimsical World of Oz_ that was shown > in 1985 before _Return to Oz_ was released. My copy, unfortunately has a > defective sound track with pre-echo. The Aljean Harmetz program was > aired about 1981-82, my print of it is even worse. Yes, Steve, I know all this. But since this has gotten WAY out of hand now, and it seems my posts are forever being misinterpreted or my meaning or intent otherwise lost (if it's a note I even wrote in the first place), I want to reiterate that what I am asking for now is *NOT* a general list of Oz movies -- I've got the "Bugle" and too many other references for THAT, and if I didn't I could always look at my own web page -- but movies or other videos that my local PBS station -- the one WITHOUT a huge budget -- could possibly show for a "Wizard of Oz" fundraiser night in conjunction with "The Wizard of Oz in Concert." Thank you, Steven, for the title of that "Return to Oz" trailer, that was something I had been looking for, but c'mon, everyone, no matter how much we'd like to I don't think they could get "The Dreamer of Oz" or "Return to Oz" or just about any other recent Oz project that hasn't already been shown on a PBS station somewhere -- which, fortunately, is actually quite a bit. > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > PC Baum-- > That's right, David, no penguins! And someone else mentioned > Thompson's quote about no snow in Oz. . . "Penguins of magic lands, > unite!" Even now, the P.U., Penguins United, are beginning rallys at > every person's house who is writing an Oz story, carrying picket signs > and shouting "Hey-Hey, Ho-Ho, show some penguins and some snow!" Quick, someone send these rampaging penguin's Greg Glick's "Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz," where one of the characters is a penguin! (Also, *IF* Karyl and I ever get around to our sequel to "Queen Ann," there will be snow involved. And there's already some in Robin Hess's "Christmas in Oz.") --Eric "Good thing the weekend's nearly here..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:43:11 -0500 From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) Subject: Thompson books out of sequence I have a question for those familiar with the Thompson books: I am the father of Mac, the 6 year-old Oz _fanatic_, and we've been struggling to find the later Thompson books. We last read _Ojo_ and I have thus far not been able to find _Speedy_ or _Wishing Horse_. I picked up a copy of _Handy Mandy_ a couple of days ago though, and my question is whether or not we should read it out of sequence or wait. My son is sensitive to the logic of the series, and is bothered when we encounter a character who has not been "properly introduced." We did read "Captain Salt" already, but if "Handy Mandy" refers to events or characters in the other two earlier books I'd prefer to wait- Thanks! greg ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:02:04 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Worst Book of Oz I just finished Kenneth Baum's _The Dinamonster of Oz_, and I disliked it considerably. Never before have I read something so-- imaginary friend: Your brother is trying to unload that copy! As I was saying, it really is a wonderful book, and a fascinating insight into Ken Baum's life and times. Seriously, I found his writing style wanting, as did his fact-checking and logic. Its saving feature was that it has a plot, which cannot be said for my personal nomination for the worst book on the planet, John Updike's _The Witches of Eastwick_. Has anyone read both this and _Dorothy--Return to Oz_? Someone nominated the latter for worst book ever written, and I am curious as to which is genuinely worse. STJ, I had no idea you were a professor! So tell me, what's the doctoral program at Pittsburgh State like? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:33:41 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-30-96 Liz Schaible: >I adore Books of Wonder and all of the products. I don't like hearing >too many bad things about anything, even if they are just about orders. >To be honest, I haven't encountered problems with orders because I have >bought most things either at conventions or at the enormous bookstore >here in S.F. However, I have been so thrilled with my purchases, that >I would consider any amount of time I would have had to wait for them a >pleasure due to the anticipation of what was to come. I should be back >on the mailing list now, so I guess I will see for myself. Thanks for the kind words, Liz! And thanks to all the rest of you on the digest who've rallied to BOW's defense. But, to be fair, we've had a few snags with delivery on occassion and it's important that people let us know about them. After all, if our friends and customers don't tell us what we're doing wrong, how can we correct it? So, although I appreciate all the good thoughts and kind words, I don't want to discourage anyone from letting us know when we've failed to do right by them. And I'm glad to hear that you're back on our mailing list, Liz. Hope you liked our most recent catalog! - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest The more things change, the more they stay the same: Non-Ozzy, although it parallels a discussion we had a little while ago. Anyway, some friends and I were at the Gaslight Theatre, an old-style Playhouse watching the show. The entertainment there consists of a very attractive young woman playing a piano. As we left, I noticed a group of guys hanging around talking to her and I thought "I'll de d___ed, Stage Door Johnnies!" :-) David: Good point about the repeat-countries having major characters who make return appearances, such as Randy (Regalia) and Kabumpo (Pumperdink). The two probably go hand in hand. David and Danny: The first nine Thompsons are available thru the Oz Club and the last five are available from the Club and/or Books of Wonder. The other four (_Yellow Knight_, _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_ and _Ojo_) are a little hard to come by, which is a shame since they are all very good. Dick R: Chris has an excuse for delayed orders, since his is a non-profit organization that is run on a shoe-string budget and he relies on volunteers to send his stuff out. One reason that I won't volunteer is that I know I would be VERY slow to get stuff out to people. Bear: I believe that most people see Gates as someone who wants Microsoft to have a monopoly on every aspect of the computer/internet business. This may or may not be true (Gates has NO interest in hardware), but that is how he is perceived. Alliance of Evil: With all this talk about "Lost in Space", I would like to see Dr. Smith team up with the Nome King! --Tyler JOnes ======================================================================