] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 1, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:51:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Liz Schaible - To which SF book store are you referring? Dick Randolph - Jonathan Harris, ah! The evil Dr. Smith. Thank you. Notice to Academic Types - In California they are going to start making you pay for your INTERNET time. I'll bet other states won't be far behind. Is this going to affect you Dave? Briefly, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:15:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Thompson and Judaism 1) It has been proposed that Matiah is a stereotype of Jews, though it has been also pointed out he could be an Arab stereotype as well. One thing that might push it towards being a Jewish stereotype is that in Pumperdink one of the cooks was named Hashem, which happens to be a substitute name of G-d. (Observant Jews avoid purposelessly using any of the seven names of G-d; hashshEm is the conventional substitute for the one conventionally translated into English as the LORD or Jehovah.) On the other hand, this just might be a coincidence (the other two cooks were Stirem and Fryem, plus nothing in Pumperdink struck me as particularly Jewish, realistic or stereotypical). Does anyone know how much Thompson actually knew about Judaism and her views thereon? 2) David, actually I thought of DOS and Windows as more stupid than evil, especially the former, which does less than any other OS on the market and many off the market. I would put DOS around dead last as far as OSs go. The man, Bill Gates, I would consider evil. (Though I'd really hate to get into an argument over what good and evil are in order to be able to justify it.) UNIX, on the other hand, I would put as about as close to evil as anything nonsentient can get. 3) Greg, go ahead, read Handy Mandy in Oz. Nothing in it really depends on Speedy in Oz or The Wishing Horse of Oz. Enjoy. 4) Having not gotten a message from , I hereby open my copy of The Dinamonster of Oz (should be in good condition, especially if Barry remembered to be careful and not bend the spine) to the public for trade for anything I don't have already. Ideal item wanted in trade would be a used Del Rey paperback of a Thompson book I don't have (Kabumpo in Oz, everything from The Yellow Knight of Oz to The Wishing Horse of Oz, The Silver Princess in Oz, Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz). Interested parties, please contact me via private E-mail for haggling. 5) Barry, Dorothy--Return to Oz is worse than The Dinamonster of Oz. The Dinamonster of Oz is at least amusing; Dorothy--Return to Oz is just plain sickening and morally offensive. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:18:01 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Penguins Penguin rally leader looking at Eric's offer of Bungle and the Magic Lantern: "Oh. Well. That's better. Alright Penguins! Pack it up! Make way for the Platypus Contigent!" Platypi: "Hey-hey, Ho-ho, Platypi have got to show!" Non-American animals? Someone said Baum left out uniquely American animals, but I know he had beavers, at least Fairy Beavers, didn't he? I don't know if you could count it or not, but his Animal Fairy Tales include buffalo, porcupine, alligators, and gophers. Cosgrove-Payes' Wicked Witch had a whole chapter of hummingbirds as well. Any other American animals? armadillo, moose, Eagle, racoon, etc? I suppose jaguars and llamas (south american) would be asking for a lot. In terms of Aussie Oz animals, there was that kangaroo in EC, and a wombat in Animal Fairy Tales, and of course, the Platypus Contigent currently lobbying for equal representation. Thanking Baum for no mosquitos in Oz, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:22:51 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dick Randolph: Thanks for the plug in Ozzy Digest 5/31. The broken wrist cast is off, and things are well on the mend. But I've been away a lot so the delivery service has been rather slow. However, Idon't cash checks until the books are mailed. In Germany I found a neat newly illustrated Wizard edition (Der Zauberer von Oz) with a "German" view of Kansas. It depicts Kansas as quite hilly, the Gale home as a one room hovel, more like a prairie wagon shed, and there are four tornados bearing down on in, not just one! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 05:36:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-96 > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 5-30-96 > > Danny: Digest subscriber Herm Bieber is a great source of reasonably priced > FF Oz books. And he can be contacted at Herm Bieber@aol.com > From: boyle@peabody.jhu.edu (McGregor Boyle) > Subject: Thompson books out of sequence > > I am the father of Mac, the 6 year-old Oz _fanatic_, and we've been > struggling to find the later Thompson books. We last read _Ojo_ and I have > thus far not been able to find _Speedy_ or _Wishing Horse_. Both books are available in very nice reprint editions from The International Wizard of Oz Club. > I picked up a > copy of _Handy Mandy_ a couple of days ago though, and my question is > whether or not we should read it out of sequence or wait. My son is > sensitive to the logic of the series, and is bothered when we encounter a > character who has not been "properly introduced." We did read "Captain > Salt" already, but if "Handy Mandy" refers to events or characters in the > other two earlier books I'd prefer to wait- No references in "Handy Mandy" to anything that happened in "Speedy" or "Wishing Horse," it stands up very well on its own. (But it would help if you've read "Pirates," since a character last seen in that book reappears in "Handy Mandy"...) --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:51:29 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-96 Aaron: I've personally never had any problems losing data from Microsoft applications, but maybe I've just been lucky. And I never used a 68040 machine, going straight from a 68030 to a PowerPC. I do think the "upgrade" from Word 5.1 to Word 6 for the Mac was a travesty. Gates - or a Gates-like character - could make an excellent Oz villain. Because what he does is legal, just evil... Eric: I didn't say "Nuke Bill Gates and his Evil Empire," just "Down with them." I wish no harm to the surrounding community at all, at all. I was thinking that the Club-offered Del Reys just up through "Jack Pumpkinhead", but wasn't sure. Greg: Both SPEEDY and WISHING HORSE are available in very nice editions from the IWOC. But you can read HANDY MANDY without qualms; none of the new characters introduced in the two missing books appear in it, nor are events in them referred to. For that matter, none of the new characters from those two books ever appears again in the FF, nor is there a reference to their events. The only tiny thing I can think of is that in HM Dorothy, Trot, and Betsy are all wearing coronets while they play croquet (I think was the game), and WH is the first and only place I can recall in the FF that says that Trot and Betsy are princesses as well as Dorothy. But these are both rather obscure throwaway bits; it's not as if Ozma awarded the title to the other two girls in WH. So if Mac should wonder when he missed their getting titles, you can tell him you have it on excellent authority that it wasn't in one of the missing books. However, since IMHO SPEEDY and WISHING HORSE are Thompson's two best books, and both in the top five or six of all Oz books, I highly recommend you order them from the IWOC unless you just can't afford the $20 or so each they cost. (I think they only come in HC editions, though I could be wrong. Don't have my latest fliers from the club handy to check. I'm sure if there's a PB also available at lower cost Eric or Steve or Robin or someone will say so.) Short Digest today! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:10:28 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 5-30-96 Tyler: As I said in my post, it was not a shot at Buckethead. I realize what Chris & Co. are up against, and I have no complaints about their delivery. I was only noting how impressed I was with the humerous letter one of their warehouse people was using. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:13:43 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Missing Thompson Books of Oz Peter Glassman, Tyler mentioned that four of the Thompson books (_Yellow Knight_, _Purple Prince_, _Pirates_, _Ojo_) are neither available from IWOC or BoW. Are there any plans in BoW's near future to print them? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:18:21 -0700 From: steller Subject: (no subject) Greg: _Handy Mandy_ does not continue the story of any Oz characters in _Speedy_ or _Wishing Horse_. Both of these books are currently available, with color plates, from IWOC. If you are not a member, join, they are hard to get outside of the club. Barry: Yes, I am a professor, but I try to live that down. The doctoral program at Pittsburg[no h] State is non-existant. KU (Lawrence) and K State (Manhattan) have a monopoly on doctoral programs in the Kansas Regents system. By the way it's SJT not STJ. And _Dorothy--Return to Oz_ is far worse than _Dinamonster_. (I should know, I edited the latter). Tedrow seems to know nothing about Oz, KGBaum didn't get it all right, but he was following some of the tradition. Frank J. Baum's book (Laughing Dragon) has absolutely nothing to do with the Oz of his father. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:52:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-96 Matiah: I never thought of the turban as being more than a device to aid the desert setting, but I think you guys have a point. Jews have been stereotyped as tricksy peddlers and I guess that, and the word torah, stuck out to me as a kid...not the turban. Odd, that persistence of memory and mindset;they're not easily dislodged by logic! :o) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 19:31:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Digest report: The Ozzy Digest for May 1996 is now available. Here are the file sizes: Dec 95 296K Jan 96 484K Feb 96 911K Mar 96 1142K Apr 96 834K May 96 794K E-mail me if you need any of these. Please do not post your request on the digest. Barry: ********** SPOILER FOR HORSES ********** The "Wishing Horse" is a misnomer, since Chalk cannot actually grant wishes, but he did figure out how to use the wishing emeralds. The "Giant Horse" is a normal sized horse from the Gilikin Country who can make his legs as long or as short as he wants. I know for a fact that Chalk is in PD, while the Giant Horse is not. This is embarassing, but I cannot remember the Giant Horse's name! Is is Highjump? David: Granted, my theory is not fully supported (mainly because wishes must be voiced, except in the non-FF _Emerald Ring_), but having Dorothy age simply by leaving Oz also has problems. The truth must lie somewhere in between. How would Dorothy's body "know" how many years had been lost? Perhaps Aaron's Machine has a database of people and keeps a running count. An evil person could wreak havoc by manually adjusting those numbers and then transporting someone back to America... ***** NON-OZZY GRIPE ***** David, I must disagree with you. OS/2 is the worst, most horrid evil system that has ever been invented. It deserves to be banished to the pits of H___. I cannot say enough bad things about it, so I will stop here. Aaron: I just heard that Bill Gates has come up with a piece of hardware that nobody has ever thought of before: A picture that shows you any scene in the world just by asking for it! Only Bill could think of this! :-) McGregor: AS far as I can remember, _Handy Mandy_ does not use anyone from _Speedy_ or _Wishing Horse_. Both of these books, by the way, can be ordered from the Oz Club. Other thoughts: Eric mentioned a line of thought that has never really been explored, either in the books or on the digest. Specifically, how does the magic enchantment of Oz affect the common people? As Eric said, most of the adventures involve a very select group of royals and/or celebrities from EC plus the usual bag of strange kingdoms. We very rarely get to see the average Oz citizen. Here's a rough MOPPeT: Most of the people of Oz do not use magic and are not considered fairies. They are simply normal people who live and work much as people did a century or more ago, with some fringe benefits. For these people, the enchantment works to make their general enviornment better. For example, the climate is always nice and tha rain comes often enough, but not too often. The soil is very rich, giving very abundant crops with a minimum of effort. In other words, I've often thought of the average Ozian's lifestyle as peaceful and idyllic. It is simple, but very easy with little or no toil. Very little changes from day to day. People are just generally happy. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 22:45:20 +0100 From: Sissor Subject: Yellow Brick Road I & II Hey all, Was looking through the Educorp Multimedia CD softsource catalogue and I saw these two cd roms. The Yellow Brick Road I and The Yellow Brick Road II. The first one is the Tin Man, Scarecrow, and Cowardly Lion and their quest to save OZ from the evil Gnome King and his Army. The second one is: Glinda is being held captive in a magical crystal ball and must be saved! It's a two cd-rom set. Both look like 3D raytraced figure animation. It's avaible for both Mac and Windows. $30 and $40 respectively. I was wondering if anyone has actually see or played these? Any comments? For those interested Educorp: 1-800-843-9497 or www.educorp.com -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQBvAzEqJqMAAAEDALufc5zZQa9RSF8EDaHmBBtL+ZU5IWEOuytOaABM05zRRAdq Zb+hbQPyimx6+tOU8To2re/khBId0qst+vzhgpfklo9sHM3GTrk5qN497l0koBTS wkjfnS9t1BS0oy9fQQARAQABtBlTaXNzb3IgPGhlbmFvQGJsa2JveC5jb20+ =TUen -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Sissor henao@blkbox.com Houston, TX ##################################################################### "to be nobody but yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight, and never stop fighting" - e.e. cummings ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 16:02:02 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-96 Hi Digest! Back after a four day absence. Peter Glassman and Eric - thank you for the information about Sendak. I was very curious about that, being a Sendak admirer. Sendak is still alive, isn't he? I've heard a rumor about him that I hope wasn't true. I knew of Christopher Milne's passing, but I was sorry to hear about Pamela travers and Garth Williams. Ethnicity in Oz - I noticed a multicultural trend in the Oz Stroy circle stories from the past year or two. One member wrote a story called "The Winter Soltice of Oz", which describes an Oz Holiday that combines traditions of Christmas, Hannuka, and Divali (possibly other holidays that I didn't recognise). Tyler (I *think* it was you who asked) - "wicked" has some references to the wizard's past. ******************SPOILER FOR "WICKED"********************************* I wonder how many of you who read the book noticed that Maguire made the Wizard a member of the Theosophical movement, who was sent to Oz by Madame Blatavsky in order to retrieve a book of magic (probably a book which is referred to in some mythology or literature of which I am not aware) from earth. *********************************************************************** Another Robin at the Winkie convention was Robin Mcmaster. There *were* lots of 'em! I remember at one point one of you offered to trade me a video copy of "WOZ in Concert", but I don't remember who it was. In any case, I'm still interested! Bye! Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 11:31:31 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: re: more Ozzy stuff Addendum to previous post: OOps! I know I'll get a lot of response about my mistake of calling a gopher a uniquely american animal! Even Winnie Pooh knows better than that! What I was thinking of was the Prairie Dog family in the ever wonderfully titled _Twinkle and Chubbins_. That better? I also was looking through Piglet Press' bibliography for some other books I haven't read, and found a jaguar in _Tin Woodman_! Shows how much I know! Next I find a Koala. . . Danny ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 01-Jun-96 15:10:57 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BEAR: >In California they are going to start making you pay >for your INTERNET time. I'll bet other states won't be far behind. Is this >going to affect you Dave? Oh ^%#&(@%#!...You mean it's not enough that I have to fork out big $$$ to my server, but they're going to TAX the Internet as well??? Can you tell me where you read/heard that? If it's much it *could* affect me a lot!!! ERIC: > ... [_Handy Mandy in Oz_] stands up very well on its own. (But it would >help if you've read "Pirates," since a character last seen in that book >reappears in "Handy Mandy"...) Also it helps explain why at the start of _Handy Mandy_, Ruggedo is in the form of a jug... TYLER: >This is embarassing, but I cannot remember the Giant Horse's name! >Is is Highjump? High Boy. >Granted, my theory is not fully supported... But it's much more logical, IHMO (that Ozzy magic just *halts* aging, rather "storing" the extra years in some latent form somewhere). >I've often thought of the average Ozian's lifestyle as peaceful and idyllic... >People are just generally happy. This is my view as well. :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 2, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 21:49:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: ozzy digest Trot's Royal titles: While _Wishing Horse_ may have contained the first mention of Trot as a Princess of EC, in _Giant Horse_, when Trot is made a princess of the Saphire City, the Scarecrow mentions that this makes Trot "twice a princess". Presumably, the other part refers to EC, although this is the first time it's mentioned. Steve "Don't say Professor" T: _Laughing Dragon_ is an interesting case. While it has absolutely nothing to do with any other Oz book, it can be argued that it is Historically Accurate on the basis that it does not contradict anything in the FF. Dave: From what Bear said, it sounds like Universities are going to start charging an "Internet fee" to students. it will probably be a flat fee charged on a per-semester basis. Also, thanks for your support of my two MOPPeTS. They may not be entirely true, but they SOUND like they are... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 21:05:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-96 Mosquitoes in Oz: They sing like birds according to, I think, Nick Chopper. Now *that's* an idyllic place to live! Oz Convention: Who's going to Louisville in a coupla weeks? I know Jane, Pete, Patrick, Herm, and Jim are going, but who else for sure? Hashem: I'm convinced it's a strictly-for-laughs name. RPT was more interested in gags than in what she would have considered esoterica. I have no reason to believe she knew much about Judaism, and it would probably take someone with Aaron's pre-rabbinical expertise to know a code name for G-d...unless that's something they teach for Bar Mitzvah????? --Robin "one of the many Robins at WinkieCon" Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 23:21:21 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-96 To Sissor: Have not seen the CD rom games you describe, but they sound neat! By the way, Folks, has anyone besides me ever owned a copy of the computer game "The Wizard of Oz" by Windham Classics? It is a simple text adventure game copyrighted in 1985, featuring the text at the bottom of the screen and 2d graphics at the top. **********GAME SPOILER ALERT!!!!!********** Interestingly enough, as Dorothy you meet Tip, Mombi, the Sawhorse and Jack Pumpkinhead in this game as well as the characters from "The Wizard of Oz." When you meet Tip, he goes with you to the castle of the Wicked Witch of the West. (Or he asks if he can go--it's been a long time since I played this one.) After you melt the WWW, you must search for your friends, who have been transformed into toys in a box. There are other departures from plot of the original "Wizard" as well, presumably to add interest to the game. Including the fact that Tip becomes the rightful ruler of Oz at the end of the game! (No, he never turns into Princess Ozma. He simply gets a royal crown and robe. Yes, you, Dorothy, are sent home, too.) !!!!!!!!!END of SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyways, it was a fun game while it kept me busy trying to solve it, and IS there anyone out there who has ever seen or played it? I still have the disks, and the only annoying thing about it is that the game is so well protected, I cannot even make backup copies for myself. If the disks ever go bad, that's it. Tyler: What happened to Dorothy when she left Oz is identical to legends told about those having dealings with the faeries of Ireland. When Oisin left the Irish fairyland of Tir Nan Og for Ireland, and then fell off his horse, he "quickly turned into an aged man" goes the song written about him. OIsin was lucky, probably because he had a faery mother. Other legends tell of mortals who visited the faeries for what seemed to them an evening, or a few days, only to return to the land of mortals to find that centuries had gone by out there and they crumbled to dust when they dismounted from their horses. Thompson seems simply to have followed an old Irish tradition when she has Dorothy age instantly upon leaving the fairyland of Oz. However, this does have problems because, in the Outside World, instant aging is simply impossible. The closest thing to it is progeria, a genetic disorder that causes a child to age rapidly and die as it is growing up. I agree with the view that it would take magic to cause a person to age as rapidly as Dorothy does. The way to avoid this bad effect might be to take absolulely NOTHING magical with one back into the Outside World. Aaron: Having worked with both IBM and Macs, I can say the Macs are easier to work with. But they are (or were) so much more darned ex$pensive than IBM's! And IBM software vendors seem to be much more generous than their Apple counterparts. Windows and DOS include disk defragmenting programs and other helpful tools that are not included in Mac's OS. You have to buy them separately from Symantec. Ditto for CorelDraw--one has to sink lots of $$$$$ into fonts, tracing programs and plug-ins to make Illustrator for Mac the equivalent of CorelDraw for the IBM. However, I do agree that Windows '95 swiped a lot of things from Apple's operating system. ( Recycling Bin = Trash, Start Button = Finder, Shortcut = Alias, etc., etc., etc.) There's no such thing as a perfect computer. In the future maybe... I loved Lost in Space when it first appeared on the air... until both it and Dr. Smith became so silly it was embarrassing.... Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 23:24:21 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For the Ozzy Digest Oz Story 2 was released tonight at a festive publication party at the Hungry Tiger Press (David Maxine, editor, Eric Shanower (ES), art director. It contains many new and (hard to find) old Oz stories and comics. The contents include: The Greed Goblin of Oz (story by ES; art by Anna Maria Cool) Dorothy and the Mushroom Queen (story by Janet Deschman; art by ES) Mary Marvel in the Modern Wizard of Oz (comic strip; art by Jack Binder Studio) Abby (story by ES; art by Frank Kramer) The Clockwork Man (story by L. Frank Baum (LFB); art by Vlada Stolikovich) The Wonderland of Oz (comic adaption of Baum's Land of Oz; art by Walt Spouse) The King of the Corn (story by Ruth Plumly Thompson (RPT); art by W. W. Denslow) The Magic Land (story by Eloise Jarvis McGraw; art by Lauren Lynn McGraw) Toyland (story and art by John R. Neill (JRN)) Christmas in Pumperdink (story by RPT; art by Mark Grammel) Who's Afraid? (story by LFB; art by JRN) Skin Deep (story by ES; art by Dan Parent) Policeman Bluejay (the complete 1907 fairy novel by LFB; art by Maginel Wright Enright) This handsome addition to any Oz collection is well worth the $15 asking price. To order postpaid, send $18 (NJ residents $18.90) to Hungry Tiger Press, 15 Marcy Street, Bloomfield, NJ 07003-3814. (no e-mail hookup yet!). Oz Story #1 is still available at the same price. ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 01-Jun-96 23:26:25 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TYLER: >From what Bear said, it sounds like Universities are going to start >charging an "Internet fee" to students. it will probably be a flat fee >charged on a per-semester basis. Oh, well if that's the case then it will probably only effect me if my campus starts charging a fee for the use of their WWW terminals in the library. (Everything else I do at home from Delphi.) MELODY: >By the way, Folks, has anyone besides me ever owned a copy of the computer >game "The Wizard of Oz" by Windham Classics? I never saw this game, but I have Windham Classics' "Alice in Wonderland", in which the player (Alice) interacts with characters from _Alice in Wonderland_, _Through the Looking-Glass_, and even _The Hunting of the Snark_! I have never been able to finish it though...I've never figured out how to get past the Jabberwock ( Can anyone who has by chance finished the game help me here? :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 3, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 03:18:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Platypuses of Oz 1) SOMEONE SEND THESE PENGUINS AND PLATYPUSES AWAY! I ALREADY PUT A KIWI INTO THE WOOZY OF OZ! 2) Danny, I think in The Emerald City of Oz the Tin Woodman mentioned that they have giant mosquitoes which sing in Oz. 3) Tyler, I thought that High Boy (the Giant Horse)'s body was twice the size of a normal horse. Also: The Magic Machine definitely stores a lot of data on people (and other things as well). Otherwise when disenchanting something the old form would have to be created from scratch. (E.g., when the Wizard was turned into a fox by Kiki Aru, he was able to restore himself to his natural form by saying something like "I want to be myself again. Pyrzxgl!" The Machine therefore had his old form stored somewhere; otherwise it wouldn't have known what to do when the word of transformation was invoked.) Also: Effects of magic enchantment not mentioned yet: Disease is rare and death is virtually impossible. Though I was under the impression that the happiness had nothing to do with the enchantment but rather with a) the political situation, in which the government allows people to do pretty much whatever they want within reason ("Behave yourself" is the only rule according to the Tin Woodman), and b) the culture, which promotes kindness and sharing, both of which help create an atmosphere of trust and well-being and hence happiness. 3) On "Ethnicity in Oz": I never really thought of Ozites as being syncretists before. Though that might explain Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz, which botches Greek mythology to the point of making a Jewish daemon a goddess. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 03:50:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Stuff that has very little to do with Oz 1) Robin, practically any Jew who has had some religious education knows (or should know--I can't vouch for what the Reform teach--) of the name hashshEm. 2) Dave, I haven't played that Carrollian game, but having a good knowledge of the contents of the Alice books, may I suggest that the Jabberwock could be defeated by cutting off its head? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 10:16:32 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi again! Going on another weekend trip, so I'd better make this quick... Tyler Jones wrote: <> Actually, I think I remember an issue of THE OZMAPOLITAN (a Reilly & Lee PR paper irregularly sent out to accompany new Oz books) that was reprinted in THE BAUM BUGLE some years ago. They were said to be written by Baum and/or Thompson themselves, at least partially...and one from the early Thompson era mentioned Ozma's decision to make Trot and Betsy princesses and give them equal rank with Dorothy. <<_Laughing Dragon_ is an interesting case. While it has absolutely nothing to do with any other Oz book, it can be argued that it is Historically Accurate on the basis that it does not contradict anything in the FF. >> That's what I'd say, too. Would anyone know if and when the non-Oz version was published? Robin Olderman wrote: <> Yes, but do they still *bite* people? Melody Keller wrote: What happened to Dorothy when she left Oz [in THE LOST KING OF OZ] is identical to legends told about those having dealings with the faeries of Ireland...Other legends tell of mortals who visited the faeries for what seemed to them an evening, or a few days, only to return to the land of mortals to find that centuries had gone by out there and they crumbled to dust... Thompson seems simply to have followed an old Irish tradition when she has Dorothy age instantly upon leaving the fairyland of Oz. >> Yes, but that seems to be the result of the passage of time being different in different worlds, and there've been other fantasies that reversed the effect. (In THE LION, THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE, the heroes, adults in Narnia, revert to children when the return to Earth. On the other hand, in THE MAGICIAN'S NEPHEW and later books they don't age back even to their earlier Narnian ages, let alone crumble to dust. <> I thought that often happened automatically anyway, as when Dorothy left the Silver Shoes behind in THE WIZARD OF OZ. See you later! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 10:43:11 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: Jabberwocks Dave, how do you get past a jabberwock? You cut off its head with a vorpal sword! (Yeesh, what do people learn in schools these days...) Melody, that tradition of time passing differently between our universe and Fairyland isn't unique to the Irish. I seem to remember similar legends from East Asia built around kids visiting a magical undersea kingdom for a night and when they get back it's like 200 years later. (Then again, if it also works the other way, that may explain Trot and Cap'n Bill's visit with the Sea Fairies...) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 07:48:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Thompson and Judaism > > Ideal item wanted in trade > would be a used Del Rey paperback of a Thompson book I don't have > (Kabumpo in Oz, everything from The Yellow Knight of Oz to The Wishing > Horse of Oz, The Silver Princess in Oz, Ozoplaning with the Wizard of > Oz). Interested parties, please contact me via private E-mail for haggling. Del Rey never got around to publishing "Silver Princess" or "Ozoplaning" before Judy Lynn Del Rey died. Although IIRC they were announced at one point. > 5) Barry, Dorothy--Return to Oz is worse than The Dinamonster of Oz. The > Dinamonster of Oz is at least amusing; Dorothy--Return to Oz is just > plain sickening and morally offensive. Tedrow does not know his Oz very well, but sickening and morally offensive? That's a stretch! It's nowhere NEAR as bad as "Wicked" or "Barnstormer," to name two examples. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-96 > > However, since IMHO SPEEDY and WISHING HORSE are > Thompson's two best books, and both in the top five or six of all Oz books, I > highly recommend you order them from the IWOC unless you just can't afford > the $20 or so each they cost. (I think they only come in HC editions, though > I could be wrong. Don't have my latest fliers from the club handy to check. > I'm sure if there's a PB also available at lower cost Eric or Steve or Robin > or someone will say so.) Yes, sorry for not mentioning it, they only come in hardcover. > From: Sissor > Subject: Yellow Brick Road I & II > > Hey all, > Was looking through the Educorp Multimedia CD softsource catalogue > and I saw these two cd roms. The Yellow Brick Road I and The Yellow Brick > Road II. The first one is the Tin Man, Scarecrow, and Cowardly Lion and > their quest to save OZ from the evil Gnome King and his Army. > The second one is: Glinda is being held captive in a magical > crystal ball and must be saved! It's a two cd-rom set. > Both look like 3D raytraced figure animation. It's avaible for both > Mac and Windows. $30 and $40 respectively. I was wondering if anyone has > actually see or played these? Any comments? The "Seattle Times" reviewed the first one recently, and mentions that it's not quite as Ozzy as one might think. At one point the Tin Woodman uses a circular saw to defeat the Winged Monkeys! > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > ERIC: > > ... [_Handy Mandy in Oz_] stands up very well on its own. (But it would > >help if you've read "Pirates," since a character last seen in that book > >reappears in "Handy Mandy"...) > > Also it helps explain why at the start of _Handy Mandy_, Ruggedo is in the > form of a jug... Thank you, Dave, for spoiling my carefully-worded non-spoiler... --Eric "Okay, yes, everybody, Ruggedo is in 'Handy Mandy'" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 07:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-96 > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: ozzy digest > > Trot's Royal titles: > While _Wishing Horse_ may have contained the first mention of Trot as a > Princess of EC, in _Giant Horse_, when Trot is made a princess of the > Saphire City, the Scarecrow mentions that this makes Trot "twice a > princess". Presumably, the other part refers to EC, although this is the > first time it's mentioned. Er, Trot wasn't IN Oz in "Emerald City." I don't think Baum ever made her or Betsy a princess of Oz, that was all Thompson's doing. (BTW, despite the chapter title in "Emerald City," Dorothy was actually made a princess of Oz in "Ozma of Oz." It just flies by so quick that if you blink you miss it.) > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-96 > > Mosquitoes in Oz: They sing like birds according to, I think, Nick > Chopper. Now *that's* an idyllic place to live! This IS discussed in "Emerald City," I might add. > Oz Convention: Who's going to Louisville in a coupla weeks? I know Jane, > Pete, Patrick, Herm, and Jim are going, but who else for sure? Sadly I won't be in Louisville, but since Winkies are coming up pretty soon now as well (less than seven weeks now!), who's going to be there? And who's going to take my Masters Quiz? > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-96 > > By the way, Folks, has anyone besides me ever owned a copy of the computer > game "The Wizard of Oz" by Windham Classics? It is a simple text adventure > game copyrighted in 1985, featuring the text at the bottom of the screen > and 2d graphics at the top. I never owned it -- they never made a version for the Tandy Color Computer, which is what I had at the time -- but a friend of mine in this area did, and we played it at an Oogaboo Rendezvous once. Fun stuff! > From: HermBieber@aol.com > Subject: For the Ozzy Digest > > Oz Story 2 was released tonight at a festive publication party at the Hungry > Tiger Press (David Maxine, editor, Eric Shanower (ES), art director. Then how come I saw a copy a couple of weeks ago at my local comics shop? (If I didn't already have it on order straight from HTP I'd have bought it then and there.) --Eric "Hey, Dave, I thought we weren't going to get a Digest yesterday!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 11:21:36 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-30-96 << DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: 5-29-96 Ozzy Digest In your comments regarding the old TV show, "Lost in Space", you said you liked Hans Conreid. Isn't it Jonathan Harris you're thinking of? I don't recall Hans Conreid in that series. >> I know this has already been settled, but ironically I do recall Hans Conreid being a guest star at least once, but cannot recall what exactly. << Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest With all this talk about "Lost in Space", I would like to see Dr. Smith team up with the Nome King! >> That *would* have been great, and in character. Smith would have been properly cowering and begging from all the tortures Ruggedo would ponder using. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Diplomacy - the art of letting someone have your way." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 11:41:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-96 speaking of oz cdroms did anyone get the sillybus of oz cd rom??or know where i can get a copy of it hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 11:58:37 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-96 << From: Sissor Subject: Yellow Brick Road I & II Was looking through the Educorp Multimedia CD softsource catalogue and I saw these two cd roms. The Yellow Brick Road I and The Yellow Brick Road II. The first one is the Tin Man, Scarecrow, and Cowardly Lion and their quest to save OZ from the evil Gnome King and his Army. The second one is: Glinda is being held captive in a magical crystal ball and must be saved! It's a two cd-rom set. Both look like 3D raytraced figure animation. It's avaible for both Mac and Windows. $30 and $40 respectively. I was wondering if anyone has actually see or played these? Any comments? For those interested Educorp: 1-800-843-9497 or www.educorp.com >> These are news to me, but they sure sound interesting: the first sounds similar to "Emerald City of Oz." ======================== To: Melody Grandy << I loved Lost in Space when it first appeared on the air... until both it and Dr. Smith became so silly it was embarrassing.... >> Same here, the change was with the second (color) season (although it started slowly towards the middle of the first (black and white) season. I prefered him as a villian that got them into trouble for being a closed minded fool than simply being a jerk. ======================== << From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things I have Windham Classics' "Alice in Wonderland", in which the player (Alice) interacts with characters from _Alice in Wonderland_, _Through the Looking-Glass_, and even _The Hunting of the Snark_! I have never been able to finish it though...I've never figured out how to get past the Jabberwock ( Can anyone who has by chance finished the game help me here? :) ) >> While I've not played the game, I would think you'd need a vorpal blade.... -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Diplomacy - the art of letting someone have your way." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 14:08:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Robin: The people in the Irish legends should stay on their horses! :-) Short post! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 12:21:32 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-96 Aaron - though "hashem" does mean "the name" in Hebrew, I have never met or heard of anyone with Hashem as a Hebrew name. However, Hashem is a very popular Arabic name (for example, Israeli Knesset member Hashem Mahmid). So that would actually be an argument for Matiah's being Arab. (Then again, I have met Jewish Matiahs and Matityahus, but never heard of Arabs by the same name. Nonethless RPT's characters seem to me to be influenced more by "Arabian Nights" than by just random ethnic stereotypes.) Herm Beiber - what publisher put out your new German edition of "The Wizard of Oz"? I have four different beautifully illustrated German editions, none of them seem to be like the one you described. Maybe my Swiss cousins can get me a copy of the new one, too. :-) Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:21:29 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com I am looking for any artwork for the 1998 Oz Club Calendar. I know it seems early, but most artists are not real punctual (sorry, Melody. That was not meant as a dig at ALL illustrators...). It's theme is to be the flipside of the '96 one. That was heroes that do not look very heroic. This will be villains who do not look villainous. AKA: General Jinjur, the Wizard of Wutz, or the roses of the Rose Kingdom. If you are at all interested, let me know ASAP that you will be drawing a picture and who you'd like to draw (I already have a beautiful centerfold of the First and Foremost Phanfasm as a woman -from EMERALD CITY, I think. But all others have yet to be cast!) Also: Anyone know where we can find a Fairuza Balk as Dorothy doll for less than a king's ransom? I'm not sure they were ever available in the US. I think they were made in England or Venus or some planet like that. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 14:25:45 -0700 From: steller Subject: Ozzy Matters Sissor: I have a review copy of and have played _Yellow Brick Road I_ (I haven't finished it yet, computer game playing is *not* my specialty. _Yellow Brick Road II_ is due for release about labor day. They are being produced by Synergy Interactive, Educorp is merely the distributor. Those interested in seeing a demo disk of YBR II should know I hope to have copies at Ozmapolitan convention in Louisville this month; YBR I will be there also, but not for free distribution. They are Windows 3.1, Windows 95 and Mac compatable. Greg: (via David Hulan) No, there is no PB edition of Wishing Horse or Speedy from IWOC. Barry: IWOC has been planning a _Purple Prince_ (with color plates) for several years now. Write a letter to the special publications committee demanding action. Melody: I owned a copy of the Wyndham Game, but was never able to play it on my old 8086. By the way, will you be in Louisville? Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 16:18:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-96 Melody: Yeah, I've got it, but I never was able to solve it. I'm not much of a games player, anyway, so it's sat around somewhere in the house for years. My version works/worked on an old Apple IIe. It seems to me I gave up somewhere quite early...in the Tin Woodman's cottage, I think. I couldn't get out of the darned thing, as I recall. Duh! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 18:02:19 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests, 06-01 & 02-96 Aaron: I don't know anything about Thompson's knowledge or views of Judaism, but I'd doubt extremely that "Hashem" owed anything to the Hebrew. I'm almost sure that it was intended to be pronounced "HASH-'em", as a pun on "turn them into hash", rather than "ha-SHEM" like the Hebrew word. I'm sure the match is pure coincidence (as I'm sure that Matiah's father's name "Metorah" has nothing to do with the Torah). DOS is itself just stupid; it was Gates's use of it that was evil. Windows, however, seems evil to me in itself - if for no other reason than that it's a blatant ripoff of the Mac OS, with about the same relationship as one of the $25 Rolex fakes you can buy in Hong Kong has to a real Rolex. Unix, on the other hand, I consider not so much evil as bizarre. A friend of mine once characterized it as "written by Martians for Martians". Since I already have a copy of DINAMONSTER I'm not much interested in your offer. I do have a spare copy of SPEEDY (HC, probably 1940s vintage, good but not mint condition) that I'd be willing to trade if you (or anyone) come up with something I want... (I paid, ISTR, $30 or so for it back in the '70s, so I'd want something for it that's either hard to find or that costs $30 or so to buy new.) Danny: I was referring to animals in Baum's Oz, not Baum's fiction in general. I'm sure he used animals from all continents at some point or other - possibly even penguins. He did have the fairy beavers in JOHN DOUGH, but they never came to Oz. I can think of animals from Eurasia (horse, chicken, tiger), Africa (lion, leopard, zebra), Australia (kangaroo), and South America (jaguar), but nothing unique to North America (e.g. bison, beaver, prairie dog, raccoon). Of course, continental divisions aren't always that strict in fact; although lions are usually associated with Africa there are some in SW Asia, and jaguars do occasionally range into North America. Barry: The four missing Thompson books are still under copyright, so reprinting them would take the permission of Dorothy Maryott (or however she spells her last name). I don't know how easy that is to get. ISTR hearing at some point that the IWOC had gotten reprint rights to PURPLE PRINCE, but my impression is that the IWOC isn't going to be reprinting any more books until they've sold off a lot more of their current inventory. Tyler: The Giant Horse (Highboy) isn't an ordinary-sized horse even when he's retracted his legs. His body, however, isn't inordinately bigger than some of the biggest ordinary horses. You won't find an ordinary horse able to fit two ten-year-old children, an adult male, a stone statue, and a scarecrow on its back comfortably. And I don't consider "Wishing Horse" a misnomer; while Chalk didn't grant the wishes by his own magic power, he played an essential role in their being granted. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:05:48 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Okay, one more observation on PC Baum, before I (Hopefully) can find another topic to talk about: Brousing in Piglet Press' bibliography (again,) I noticed that one of the Adepts, Aurah, maybe?, was quoted as having brown skin and brown hair. Did I read it wrong, or could we have an African Ozian here? Dave. . .? I was thinking of my reference to WInnie the Pooh in one of my previous posts about any American animals in Oz. Wasn't one of Milne's ideas in the Hundred Acre wood to include only British (or British-by-way-of imperialism) animals? I guess I put my foot in my virtual mouth, as Gopher is only a Disney character, added for their Winnie the Pooh cartoons. Guess I won't live this down, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 20:20:46 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-01 & 02-96 This is the second part of my response; I sent the first part accidentally. Tyler, continued: Since there is no real-world experience with magical retarding of age, we have no way of knowing just how it works. Certainly in many, many fantasy novels where there is such magical retarding of age, the one whose aging was retarded ages extremely swiftly as soon as the spell loses its effect, for whatever reason. Presumably the body cells do recognize the passage of time, but the magic prevents the usual processes from taking place when they normally would. Once the magic dissipates, the cells revert to the condition they would have been in had the magic not been in place. As I said a couple of days ago, I think the analogy of not checking your E-mail for a period of time may be more appropriate than turning off a light bulb. When you do finally get around to checking it, you end up having as much in your folder as if you'd checked it every day (assuming you never responded to any); it just happens a lot faster. I'll admit that I've never used OS/2 myself; some people I've known who have used it have liked it quite a bit, but I take note of your disagreement with them. The only group of ordinary Oz citizens that we get much detail about that I can recall are the people of Oogaboo in TIK-TOK (and QUEEN ANN and GLASS CAT...). I believe that Baum does say that they are fairies of a sort, though of course not the same sort as Ozma - but I'm not sure about that, and at the moment, I can't even refer to TIK-TOK (the only Oz book I'd had available for months) because it's already out at my new house. (We closed Friday and the movers bring our Stuff on Monday! By Wednesday or Thursday I should have access to my Oz books again!) Gili: I remember noting that the Wizard was a Theosophist; when I get access to my copy of WICKED again (soon!) I'll see if I recognize the source of the book. (Blavatsky invented a few herself, of course - one called THE BOOK OF DZYAN, I think...I'll have to look her up in that section of de Camp's LOST CONTINENTS.) Tyler (6/2 now): I have assumed that the Scarecrow's "twice a princess" remark about Trot referred to her previous office as Queen of Sky Island, since the Royal Historians seem to use "queen" and "princess" interchangeably for younger rulers (e.g. Ozma). In any case, we're never shown a scene where Ozma makes Trot or Betsy a princess, as we are when she gives titles to Dorothy, Peter, and Jenny Jump. Robin: I'm going to Louisville, be the good Lord willin' and the cricks don't rise 'twixt here and there, as we used to say in my youth... I've paid for my membership and room, anyhow. Melody: I owned a copy of that WIZARD OF OZ game, but I never got very far playing it. I didn't find it particularly good at the time, though its Ozziness (for as far as I got) was indubitable - clearly based on the books and not the movie. And then one time I tried to play it and the disk had been corrupted, so I gave up on it. In the outside world rapid aging like Dorothy's in LOST KING and all the other examples from fantasy is impossible, but in the outside world retarded aging is also impossible. Are these two negatives additive or multiplicative? Herm: I assume that OZ STORY MAGAZINE #2 will be available at Louisville, so I'll plan to buy it there (unless they want to give me another review copy...). I'm looking forward to it; "Policeman Bluejay" in particular is one of the few Baum works I've really wanted to read and haven't been able to find. (I'm not overly interested in the Boy Fortune Hunters or Aunt Jane's Nieces; I'll read them if I find them at a reasonable price, but I'm fairly tepid about them.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 20:30:19 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Dorothy growing up in LOST KING On the subject of Dorothy's growing up in LOST KING, Tyler is close with his idea that it was the wishing sand that was responsible. Dorothy never wished to grow up, however. What she did do was to read out loud the magic green formula of restoration that was on Humpey's tag. Immediately after that she began to grow, as the the wishing sand interpreted this as a command to "restore" her to her chronological age. (Another example of wishing magic obeying commands spoken in the language of Magic is the Wizard transporting a party to Morrow.) -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 22:22:14 -0400 From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-96 To: DAVEH47@delphi.com Dave -- if possible, can you post this for me? Maybe even post it again in a couple of weeks? Hello and Greetings to you. I am coordinating the auctions for the International Wizard of Oz Club. In general, we're always looking for any and all Oz, Thompson, and Baum material, but right now we're particularly after first editions of The Hidden Valley of Oz and Merry Go Round in Oz; copies of The Gingerbread Man (an advertising booklet written by Ruth Thompson; and copies of The Wizard of Oz and The Magical Monarch of Mo illustrated by Evelyn Copelman. I would greatly appreciate information about copies of the above for sale. Patrick Maund (ZMaund@AOL.com) -- thanks, Dave! ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 02-Jun-96 22:05:51 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AARON: >"Behave yourself" is the only rule according to the Tin Woodman ... This is IMHO just the Ozzy version of the credo of Shangri-La: "Be kind". :) THE JABBERWOCK: A lot of people suggested killing the Jabberwock with a vorpal blade just like the poem, but this admittedly child-oriented _Alice_ game is limited as what the played can do to other players. (Taking violent action is not one of them). ERIC: >Del Rey never got around to publishing "Silver Princess" or "Ozoplaning" >before Judy Lynn Del Rey died. I didn't realize the publication of the Thompson books depended on one individual! (Sort of like my local Software, Etc., which had a manager that had an Amiga, so they had lots of Amiga software, unlike all other big computer stores...But then he left, and quicker than you could do it with the Magic Belt, all the Amiga stuff was gone.) >>(Tyler): Presumably, the other part refers to EC, although this is the >> first time it's mentioned. >Er, Trot wasn't IN Oz in "Emerald City."... I think Tyler meant that Trot was "twice a princess" both of Sapphire and of the Emerald City...He did not mean to make any reference to _Emerald City_ *the book*. DANNY: >Brousing in Piglet Press' bibliography (again,) I noticed that one of >the Adepts, Aurah, maybe?, was quoted as having brown skin and brown >hair. Did I read it wrong, or could we have an African Ozian here? >Dave. . .? They tell me that they're European, and their pictures seem to confirm this...Of course having a close association with the Adepts (what with they're being my "informants"), I know a lot of "facts" about the Adepts that I'm obliged to label a "MOPPeT" here in the Digest... Auxannah: You'd better write up something about us in your FAQ, Dave... :) Audirfah: Call it, "What are the Adepts *really* like?" :) :) :) Aunyetah: Allow us to introduce ourselves -- we are three MOPPeT's... :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 4, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 03:23:49 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Availability of IWOC Oz Books: Regarding recent notes about IWOC Thompson and later books, the warehouse inventory records (not necessarily 100% reliable) show that: Speedy - available in hard cover only Wishing Horse - available in hard cover only Silver Princess - hard cover copies are near sold out; several hundred paperback versions should exist, but they weren't in the latest inventory. They may yet show up Capt. Salt - available in paperback only Ozoplanning - available in hard or soft cover Handy Mandy - available in hard or soft cover Magical Mimics - available in hard or soft cover Shaggy Man - available in hard cover only Hidden Valley - available in hard or soft cover Problems with the clubs fulfillment service (It was NOT Fred Meyer's fault or illness that caused the exasperating delays during the past year!) have mostly been resolved, and delivery times should be a lot faster in the future. David Hulan: Eric and David informed me that they will only attend the Munchkin Convention this year, so it is unlikely that Oz Story 2 will be on sale in Louisville. Melody: I guess the wholesaler must have sent Oz Story 2 out before the official christening! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 04:29:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Why Tedrow is the worst author of Oz 1) Eric, what I find so offensive about Tedrow's Dorothy--Return to Oz is that it forces its moral standard upon the reader. (Incidentally, this is one of my complaints against Heinlein.) While Wicked and A Barnstormer in Oz contain elements I don't like (the former more than the latter), neither of them forces anything upon the reader; if you like Unionism or Quadling Christianity, that's OK with Maguire and Farmer, and if you don't, that's fine with them too. If you don't like the Golden Ruler, then Tedrow finds you reprehensible. (And likewise if you reject Heinlein's views on the optionality of clothing, he thinks you're sick.) As I belong to a school of thought which holds that nothing is intrisically moral or immoral, that is, all morality is a matter of opinion, I find it presumptuous of Tedrow and Heinlein, two mere mortals, to tell me on their own authority what is and isn't moral. Isn't my opinion as good as theirs? (And as a precautionary measure, I add that there is one being whose opinions on morality I accept: G-d.) And on top of that, Tedrow doesn't write very well, down to the lame poetry in the magic spells and the near complete lack of decent names for any of the characters. Maguire, Farmer, and even Heinlein, on the other hand, can write decently. 3) David, wait a minute! I don't remember Jenny Jump ever being given a title. When did this happen? 4) Dave, OK, so you can't use a vorpal blade on the Jabberwock. That leaves a) going around it to the side, b) going over it, c) going under it, d) going around it through the fourth dimension, e) putting it to sleep first, f) wearing garlic or something else strong smelling around your neck so that it stays away from you, and g) bribing it. And maybe a few other things I didn't think up off of the top of my head, such as... Jabberwock: Like talking it to death? Yeah, that'd work too. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 13:40:33 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-03-96 Hi Digest! Melody, Dick, and others - interesting comments about aging. I never thought of how aging in Narnia only works one way. It's as if your REAL age (you being Lucy, Edmund, Jill or whoever) is your earth age, and that's what stays constant when you return to earth. Your age in Narnia changes with Narnian time so long as you don't return to earth. This is somewhat like reading a book - you can identify with a character and "grow old" with this character, but the moment you stop reading the book, you revert back to your earth age, which is your REAL age. There are so many variations on stories where time passes differently for one group of people than for another. Think of Rip Van Winkle - he grew old as he would have if he had been awake, he just didn't notice the passage of time (rather like what happened to the real patients described in Oliver Sacks' "Awakenings"). Sleeping Beauty also slept for 100 years (not according to Disney...) but during this time she didn't age a day. Peter Pan never grew up, and James Barrie himself (according to Alison Lurie) had some sort of genetic condition which meant his aging processes were retarded, so that he looked as if he had frozen as an adolescent, which if you come to think of it is a rather tragic condition. Peter Pan seemed to like it, but Barrie also wrote a play about a character called Mary Rose, who is kidnapped by fairies and returned years later - she herself has not aged a day, but her husband is now old enough to be her father, her baby boy a grown man, and the situation is unquestionably tragic. I've been rambling ... sorry! David - *****************SPOILER FOR WICKED************************ If you blinked, you could have missed it. The word Theosophy itself is not mention, but Madame Blavatsky is mentioned as the person who physically sent the Wizard to Oz. Which means that neither of them are humbugs... *********************************************************** Dave - so you can't kill the Jabberwocky with a vorpal blade. How do you win over the Snark? With railway shares and soap, unless it is a Boojum? Danny - brown skin could refer to any variety of people: tanned europeans, Indians (from India, or native americans), arabs or people from northern Africa .... I suppose you could interpret this however you prefer. Ethnic/racial labeling often has less to do with your actual color than with other features, physical or cultural. Else why would anyone feel a need to assign a "race" to the Patchwork girl, the Scarecrow, or any of the animals in Oz? BTW, FWIW, yes, Milne would have to be thinking in Imperialist terms to think of a tiger and two kangaroos as British animals... I think it rather rude of him to select toys for his child purely on the basis of what set of animals would make a good combination for him to write about... BTW - HashshEm is purely Adelmanian spelling. The Adelmans have developed a method of transcribing Hebrew into English so that absolutely no information is lost in the transcription. IMHO, this method should be reserved for discussions where the exact Hebrw spelling is crucial - most non-Hebrew speakers would find the method more confusing than useful. Bye! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 09:10:30 -0700 From: steller Subject: Laughing Dragon Rich M.: I regret to say that the original form of _Rosine and the Laughing Dragon_, of which _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_ forms the first part, has never been published and probably never will be. I have read the entire MS, discussed all the changes made between the MS and LD and summarized the chapters that follow the part in the published book and submitted this to the Oz Research table some time ago. Unfortunately my e-mail system cannot now import material so I would have to type in the whole thing before I could send it out. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 19:30:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: ozzy digest On aging: Obviously, since in our "real" world we have no practical experience with magical aging, but we can work out some theories. For example, if someone ages upon returning to America, the knowledge of how many years had elapsed must be stored somewhere (the Magic Machine, in our own cells, etc). My main point was that it is very unlikely that Dorothy's aging and de-aging was due only to her return to America and her re-return to Oz. IMHO, it is unlikely that both of these happened due to "natural causes". The magic wishing sand is a possibility, and so is the incantation, as suggested by John White. Aaron: That was an interesting parallel you came up with. If someone is enchanted and then magic is done to restore them, how does the magic spell "know" what the original form was? It is not likely stored in the new form, so the Magic Machine is our last hope. Now, if Wizard A changes me into a baboon and Wizard B hacks into the Magic Machine and makes that my "true" form, then I am in a lot of trouble... Aaron: I hope I did not suggest that the magic itself makes people happy, invoking images of a sci-fi book (I forget the name) wherein you are genetically designed to be happy and satisfied with your lot in life. I meant, of course, that the enchantment helps to create an enviornment where it is easy to be happy, since a lot of the misery has been eliminated (hunger, extreme hard labor, etc.). Eric and Rich: When I mentioned Trot as a Princess referring to EC, I meant Emerald City the place, although I should have meant Trot as a Princess of Oz itself. Of course, David suggestion (Sky Island) was a good one, as the Scarecrow probably knows of her adventures there. As David said, though, we never saw the actual ceremony where Ozma makes Trot and Betsy princesses, assuming that she does. Which she probably did. Chris D: Glad to see you back on the digest. Have you been getting the messages I'm sending you directly? On IWOC overstocking: Somebody mentioned getting rid of their excess inventory. What books do they have that they want to get rid of? David: That must be an interesting group of people. Everyone I have talked to or heard of has utterly despied OS/2, except for a MBA student who has been described as the "IBM worshipper". Danny and Dave: I don't remember any references to the Adepts skin color, only the color of their hair: gold, silver and bronze. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 16:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-03-96 > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests > > <<_Laughing Dragon_ is an interesting case. While it has absolutely nothing > to do with any other Oz book, it can be argued that it is Historically > Accurate on the basis that it does not contradict anything in the FF. >> > That's what I'd say, too. Would anyone know if and when the non-Oz > version was published? It was not. (And remember, "Laughing Dragon" isn't complete, it's only the first half of the story that never got completed.) > Robin Olderman wrote: > < Now *that's* an idyllic place to live!>> > Yes, but do they still *bite* people? No. The Tin Woodman explains that they are so well fed that they don't need to bite anybody for food. > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-30-96 > > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-96 > > speaking of oz cdroms did anyone get the sillybus of oz cd rom??or know > where i can get a copy of it I manged to get a copy at a used CD-ROM store here in Redmond. Take a look around, they may be out there somewhere. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > ERIC: > >Del Rey never got around to publishing "Silver Princess" or "Ozoplaning" > >before Judy Lynn Del Rey died. > > I didn't realize the publication of the Thompson books depended on one > individual! To be honest, I'm surprised Del Rey is still publishing the Baum books, she was that important to their publishing the Oz books. (I can't help wondering what would have happened if the Thompsons had been printed like the Baum books, not in oversized editions that were hard to stock on most shelves...) > Auxannah: You'd better write up something about us in your FAQ, Dave... :) > Audirfah: Call it, "What are the Adepts *really* like?" :) :) :) > Aunyetah: Allow us to introduce ourselves -- we are three MOPPeT's... :) :) :) Everybody, sing along: Three little MOPPeTs from school are we... --Eric "No, it ain't Gilbert & Sullivan" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 23:39:00 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dept. of Obscure Oziana: For those non-readers of Time Magazine, the May 20 issue contained an article on the nature of tornados. Apparently field meteorologists use a portable instrumentation package called a Totable Tornado Observatory (TOTO for short!). However in the current movie hit, Twister, this same device is called "DOROTHY." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 23:44:13 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-03-96 Rich: I'm afraid I have to correct you. Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy never returned to Narnia in "The Magician's Nephew". That book was written later as a "prequel" (as the modern phrase is). Three of them came back in "The Last Battle" (under special circumstances -- no spoilers here) and did, indeed, reappear as their adult selves. None of the other children aged that much while in Narnia. Melody: We have the "Wizard of Oz" game, but I've never played it. John has, but he's out of town this week. Aaron: I doubt very much if Hashem is to be read HaSHEM. It is clearly part of the trio, to be read "Hash 'em". (Hash = cooking term, 'em = them, as in "Put 'em up.") [Oops, I see David Hulan's already brought this up. "Never mind."] Badger: Yes, Hans Conried did appear in an episode of "Lost in Space" as Sir Sagramonte, a knight in armor hunting a Questing Beast (which was voiced by June Foray). I don't remember the title. Coincidentally, I think that episode is one of Jonathan Harris' best. I could go into detail about what went wrong with the show (culled from various Sci-Fi channel specials and interviews), but this isn't the right forum. -- Eleanor (whew, my longest post yet) Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Monday 03-Jun-96 23:35:27 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CHARON: I am just about to send copies of my letter regarding making "People and Places from Oz" the theme for Pluto's moon Charon to various astronomers and scientifically-oriented Oz fans, and I just wanted to ask the Digest members for three things: 1. Any more suggestions for people to send the letter to -- So far I am planning to send it to Martin Gardiner, Ray Bradbury, Carl Sagan, Harlan Ellison, and astronomers Frank Drake, Jay M. Pasachoff (whom I have circumstantial evidence of being an Oz fan), and Patrick Moore (whom so far as I know is not an Oz fan, but is prominent enough an astronomy figure that he may worth writing to as well). 2. A mailing address for Martin Gardiner, the one person in the above list whose address I cannot find (He's NOT in _Who's Who_!!!) 3. Please send me your name, E-Mail, and Snail mail address (optional) if you want your name to be included in my letter (Right now I have on my list: Tyler, Eric G., Gili, Dick Randolph, Barbara Belgrave, the Adelmans, Mike Turniansky, Barb DeJohn, William Wright, Ken Cope, and Laura Morrison). The Campaign For Putting Oz on Charon continues!!! :) IS RUGGEDO TINKERING WITH THE 'NET???: Did anyone receive yesterday (6/3) the following message (or one very similar): ===== begin clipped message ===== i OOi. Thanks anyway. Aaron. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman UOAE IAxx Ox xOIx Oxxx adelman@yu1.yu.edu ===== end clipped message ==== (Do not adjust your set. This *is* what it looks like!) Did anyone get this message, with a header including in the CC: field ALL the names on the Digest mailing list? I got this message, Herm Bieber did as well, and Dick Randolph wrote to me today saying "What was that???" (He did not elaborate, but Naroldi the Mind Reader says he got the same thing). Does anyone have any idea what happened? Nomes crossing Internet cables??? :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 5, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 12:34:09 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 Dave - I got the weird message two, except the weird characters turned up on my screen in Hebrew (two nun-sofits, and Aaron's full name.) :-) I assume Aaron accidentally typed reply to all or something. Aaron and Tyler - about where your true form is stored while you are under a transformation: how about in your genes? This would not explain how you could be transformed clothes and all, nor how you could retain your memories. But then, how did you keep them in the first place when you were transformed? On a tangent: I remember reading a science fiction story, where an astronaut is duplicated before going on a dangerous mission, so that there would be a copy of him left at home in case he dies. Each time his duplicate on the mission dies, and each time he is duplicated again and sent on the mission. Finally he makes it back home alive, only to discover himself in a tragic position: his duplicate is already living in his home, with his wife and children ... The weird thing about this story is - who exactly is the narrator? The duplicate, or the original? (I think I got to thinking of this because of the image of duplicates of transformed people being stored on Lurlines machine. Thought: where exactly did Tip turn up from in "A Murder in Oz"? Was he stored somewhere too?) Whaddya know. I'd never heard of "Lost in Space" before the discussions here. Yesterday I turn on the T.V. and guess what was showing? "Lost in Space" (on the Asian/European cable channel "Star Plus"). Dave - maybe one reason you couldn't find Martin Gardner in the "who's who" is that you misspelled his surname: Gardner, like the person who tends your Garden, not Gardiner. Plus - isn't there another Physicist (not Christy) who suggested the name "Project Ozma"? Wouldn't it make sense to send him a copy, too? Do you have my snailmail, or should I send it again under seperate cover? Bye Digest! Gili ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 09:00:43 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Charon Another suggestion as to whom to send your letter: L. Sprague de Camp, whose address I unfortunately don't have available. He could probably be reached c/o one of his publishers. Same for Martin Gardner (note spelling of the latter name, btw), if you can't get his address elsewhere. And definitely add my name to your list of signers, since Bradbury and Ellison at least should recognize it, and some of the astronomers might. E-mail address is DavidXOE@aol.com; snail-mail is 1208 Ardmore Dr., Naperville, IL 60540. Incidentally, I suspect that the odd message from Aaron (which I got as well) resulted from him doing something wrong in the process of sending me an E-mail - at least, I got a full E-mail from him the same day that had the same last couple of words. No time to comment on the last couple of Digests; the movers brought our stuff to the new house yesterday and today I shut down the computer and we move the last of our other stuff from the apartment to the house. I hope to be up and running again by tomorrow, but no certainties. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:30:33 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 Dave: IS RUGGEDO TINKERING WITH THE 'NET???: Did anyone receive yesterday (6/3) the following message (or one very similar)... ... Did anyone get this message, with a header including in the CC: field ALL the names on the Digest mailing list? I got this message, Herm Bieber did as well, and Dick Randolph wrote to me today saying "What was that???" (He did not elaborate, but Naroldi the Mind Reader says he got the same thing). Does anyone have any idea what happened? Nomes crossing Internet cables??? :) :) :) >> I got it. I just figured it was similar to a "Ozzy Digest Being Delayed" type message that was merely... odd. ============================== Eleanor Kennedy: << Hans Conried did appear in an episode of "Lost in Space" as Sir Sagramonte, a knight in armor hunting a Questing Beast (which was voiced by June Foray). I don't remember the title. Coincidentally, I think that episode is one of Jonathan Harris' best. >> Ah yes, now I recall the silly rubber suited biped "dragon." She tended to cry a lot, didn't she? (It's been years.) Anyway, I think Sean Connery's impressive Draco has her beat. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "If I want your opinion, I'll ask you to fill out the necessary forms." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:45:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 david since you cant import into your email can you attach it as a file to someone who can? also whoever said they got the cd rom i mentioned sorry forgot who siad it how is it and how much did you get it for nad could you get another as its not ever been avaiable in my area hgus anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 09:46:54 -0700 From: steller Subject: (no subject) Aaron: You don't remember Jenny Jump getting a title? Read the final chapter of _Wonder City_. Ozma makes her the first Duchess of Oz. On disenchantment: The Truth Pond, in _Road_ restores persons to the true forms. However, when the Frogman swims in it in _Lost Princess_ he does not revert to original Frog size although his extraordinary growth was caused by magic sklosh. I have often wondered what would happen if the cactine form of Ruggedo were watered with Truth Pond water. Tyler, On IWOC overstocking: Ask again after the board meeting in Louisville. DaveH: I got the message, but I didn't *get* the message. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 13:55:50 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Isoceles Triangle in Oz For those of you out there collecting Oz references, in last Sunday's _Parade_ Maria vos Savant published a letter to her asking about the Scarecrow's garbling of the Pythagorean Theorem in the MGM movie. In her answer, she made reference to what occured in the analogous situation in the book, for which she will undoubtedly get letters asking "There's a book?" Yes, Dave, I got the cryptic message pretty much as you received it. The oracle I wear on my wrist disguised as a watch tells me that this is all part of a complex plot which involves time travel, aliens, and a visit to the Aaron Spelling universe. Line inspired by Herm's post: "Get the barometer, and TOTO too!" Tyler, I would presume that some magic would be needed to regulate behavior. Given Ozma's experiment in a moneyless economy where people work for the innate pleasure of it, something would have to be done to make sure things which are rather unpleasant get done (collection and disposal of night soil and treating people with severe behavioral problems come to mind; with characters such as the Lazy Quadling in _The Patchwork Girl of Oz_, just about any activity would fall into this category). One possible way of getting around this would be to enchant people to find this sort of work pleasing. (For comparison, a solution like this was mentioned in Stanislaw Lem's _The Star Diaries_, and in that case people rebeled against that kind of manipulation and the whole thing fell apart.) While I'm at it, does anyone in Oz have any major behavior problems (the bad guys and the Lazy Quadling excluded)? Regarding the singing mosquitos, they may be well-fed, but what are they being fed? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 18:51:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Amanda Elizabeth Schaible Richard Bauman: The bookstore I was referring to was the Borders on Union Square. They had quite a few BoW things there when I was last in, but I may have bought them all up. I assume they will get more. I'm sorry it took sso long to get back to you, I was out celebrating my 21st birthday all weekend. Anyway, go visit them, it is a great store for things non'Oz as well. Dave: I think I still have a copy of the Windham Classics Oz game. I will begin a search for it, and if I find it will give it to you. I haven't played it in years, but when I was into it enjoyed it very much, though i can't remember much about it now. It was very Ozzy, and if I remember correctly, the magic slippers were even silver! Eric: Hi Eric!! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 19:18:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Amanda Elizabeth Schaible Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 >i > >OOi. Thanks anyway. > >Aaron. > >Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman UOAE IAxx Ox xOIx Oxxx >adelman@yu1.yu.edu > >Did anyone get this message, with a header including in the CC: field ALL the >names on the Digest mailing list? I got this message, Herm Bieber did as well, >and Dick Randolph wrote to me today saying "What was that???" (He did not >elaborate, but Naroldi the Mind Reader says he got the same thing). Does >anyone have any idea what happened? Nomes crossing Internet cables??? :) :) : Dave I also received this odd message, but just dismissed it as an inside joke that I did not get. Thanks for letting me know I wasn't out of the loop. --Liz ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 15:33:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Herm Bieber: How much are your hardcover copies of _Silver Princess_? Steve: What format and for what platform is your summary? You could mail me a disk and I could post it or mail it to people electronically. Narnian Aging: When the four kids went back to Narnia in _Prince Caspian_, they did not revert to their grown-up states (ironically, this would have been the reverse situation that Dorothy faced). In _Last Battle_, the four had by then achieved adult age in their own world, so would not have reverted. However, C.S. Lewis mentioned throughout the series that people who return are imbued with a strength that they earned while in Narnia before. So, in Narnia at least, there seems to be some sort of process that keeps track of age and ability to some extent. Dave: yes, received that weird message, and had no clue about it. Obviously, Rug is trying to take over the 'Net to facilitate his conquest of Oz. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 16:02:01 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ruggedo's Revenge or Adelmanian Madness? Dave, Naroldi the Mind Reader is correct, sir!! All that gibebrish you mentioned in today's (6-4-96) Digest is what I got. Possible Ruggedo IS interfering with the Internet, but IMHO, it is more likely the work of a deranged Woozy, having escaped from the Adelmanian Universe, expressing his displeasure with the Bros. Adelman for leaking so much of his story to the Digest!! (:-D (There were a series if small squares in the version I received!) Dick (or was it just the boogyman?) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 18:20:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Mysterious Message Everyone, if you recieved a mysterious message from me, please ignore it. This UNIX box hates me and, in its finite wisdom, has apparently garbled a message I sent to one person and sent copies of the garbled version to it seems the entire Digest. Sorry for the inconvenience. Aaron. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 17:30:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 Del Rey Oz: The reissuing of the Oz books was a labor of love for Judy Lynn Del Rey. Although Lester Del Rey was, at one time, involved in things Ozian, the force behind the project died, so did the project: it wasn't making enough money, I s'pose. Gili:I love what you wrote and wish I'd thought of it: >Your age in Narnia changes with Narnian time so long as you don't return >to earth. Yeah, O.K., but here's the concept I'd never thought of before.... >>This is somewhat like reading a book - you can identify with a character and "grow old" with this character, but the moment you stop reading the book, you revert back to your earth age, which is your REAL age. Cool!!! David: Guess what I'm reading and enjoying? (Thanks, Steven, for mentioning that Borders carries Emerald City Press titles.) :) :) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 18:42:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Why Tedrow is the worst author of Oz Then you haven't read "Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz," have you? Everything you accuse Tedrow of, only 1000 times more heavyhanded. > 1) Eric, what I find so offensive about Tedrow's Dorothy--Return to Oz is > that it forces its moral standard upon the reader. No it doesn't. The reader is free to make up his or her own mind about the morals in the story. No book is capable of forcibly changing a reader's mind -- or at least readers as bright and independent as Oz readers . Maybe I just read D:RTO only on the surface, or I'm just more in agreement with what Tedrow was saying than what other authors might have said, and just didn't notice it or care, but the morality of the book made little impact on me -- partly because the REST of it was so dreadful... > And on top of that, Tedrow doesn't write very well, down to the lame > poetry in the magic spells and the near complete lack of decent names > for any of the characters. Maguire, Farmer, and even Heinlein, on the > other hand, can write decently. This I can DEFINITELY agree with you upon. (Oops, my opinions are showing...) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > 2. A mailing address for Martin Gardiner, the one person in the > above list whose address I cannot find (He's NOT in _Who's Who_!!!) Good thing he IS in the Oz Club's membership directory! (I'll mail this under separate, private cover.) --Eric "Not that I advocate the willy-nilly use of the Directory for getting celebrity addresses..." Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 05-Jun-96 01:08:19 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THEOREMS OF OZ: Barry wrote: >For those of you out there collecting Oz references, in last Sunday's _Parade_ >Maria vos Savant published a letter to her asking about the Scarecrow's >garbling of the Pythagorean Theorem in the MGM movie. Is *she* an Ozzy-phile by any chance, and should I send the Charon letter to *her*? (For those who don't know Marilyn Vos Savant, she has the highest I.Q. in the world, and she has writen several books and many newspaper columns on many subjects...Most recently she wrote a book about the recent alleged proof of Fermat's infamous "Last" Theorem involving equations derived from the Pythagorean Theorem. ( Hey, if we want to know if it's really been proved, don't all we have to do is look in Glinda's Book of Records and see if it says, "Fermat's Last Theorem has been proved" or "A faulty proof of Fermat's Last Theorem has been submitted that many are wrongly accepting as legit."? :) :) ) >In her answer, she made reference to what occured in the analogous >situation in the book, for which she will undoubtedly get letters >asking "There's a book?" Sad but true. DEL REY'S OZ BOOKS: Robin wrote: > ... it wasn't making enough money, I s'pose. This also seems to be the case with Dover's re-issuing of the Baum 14 (They stopped after _Tik-Tok_, saying "It isn't profitable"). So my question is: Why do attempts at an "Ozian Renaissance" turn out to be, to paraphrase Victor Hugo, "a sunset instead of a dawn"? Is there something about Oz that is fundamentally incompatable with peopel living in the 1990's??? -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 6, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 23:55:50 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Shalom Gili: The German Wizard was published in 1994 by J. F. Schreiber, Postfach 285, 73703 Esslingen, GERMANY. The ISBN is 3-215-11441-0. It is available in Switzerland; in fact, I bought my copies in Davos last month. Best, Herm ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 02:02:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS Gee! I think some of our members have been in the Emerald City too long. The color seems to have rubbed off on them when they contemplate Bill Gates. Tyler >In other words, I've often thought of the average Ozian's lifestyle as peaceful and idyllic. It is simple, but very easy with little or no toil. Very little changes from day to day. People are just generally happy. Golly Tyler, this sounds like a barrel of fun for the just plain folks. Does this really sound great to you or just for the proletariat? Dave - If you are in California I am surprised you missed the article. It was about state schools charging profs for INTERNET connect time, as I recall. It was in the San Jose Mercury, but I can't retrieve it now. I have been gone for four days. I would guess it appeared on May 31st. I'll ask around. Aaron & Barry - Only if you have a vorpal blade! Aaron >As I belong to a school of thought which holds that nothing is intrisically moral or immoral, that is, all morality is a matter of opinion, Just out of curiosity, what "school" is that? Dave - I got the "cyberspace burp" too. :) :) Ah, it's good to catch up. I spent the last three days in "Lost Wages." We went to the MGM and saw the Oz exhibits. All were great except Dorothy who looked like she was about 28. Too bad we can't include photos in our posts. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 00:24:53 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 Spinning sides your way courtesy of Victor Columbia Edison. scratch scratch scratch... I'm rappin' Aaron A, I'm no L. Frank B, Gonna nail the coffin shut on the Oz story. You'll have to listen while I'm dissin' Those who disagree, because this soapbox here Only belongs to me. And the book that I'm writing (Between posts that are biting All the hands that are feeding me The sources that I'm citing) Would be done; Except I find it so exciting to collect all the mail spawned from the tempers I'm igniting. And don't you offend My sensibility, If you're typing without clothes, You're sans morality! Whatever you do don't state your point of view. You might make me think of things That make me blush Bright blue. Who do you think you are, Mr. Robert Heinlein, For putting naked people In your Future Timeline? I'm afraid a luscious stargirl with a pagan lifestyle, Might make me think for myself; I'd better stick with juveniles. It's much safer here, without the contradictions. I've got my Pooka pal Harvey, to back up my convictions. Tedrow, Laumer, Volkov are no use to me Unless they've got Oz names to use copyright free. (The lawyers for her estate will Subpoena me Glumly If I use the folks created by Ruth Thompson, Plumly) I'm rappin' Aaron A, I'm no L. Frank B, Gonna nail the coffin shut on the Oz story. You'll have to listen while I'm dissin' Those who disagree, because this soapbox here Only belongs to me. scratch scratch scratch... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 05:55:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-05-96 > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 > > david since you cant import into your email can you attach it as a file to > someone who can? also whoever said they got the cd rom i mentioned sorry > forgot who siad it how is it and how much did you get it for nad could you > get another as its not ever been avaiable in my area That was me. No, I can't get any more, seeing as how I bought out all their socks already, and the extras have all gotten good homes now. It was barely worth what I paid for it -- six dollars, used. If it's not available in your area, try used CD-ROM stores (if there is such a beast), or ask at your local software outlet to see if it can be special ordered. If that doesn't work, try the company: Multicom Publishing, Inc. 1100 Olive Way, Suite 1250 Seattle, WA 98101 BTW, the disc is called "Legends of Oz." > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: The Isoceles Triangle in Oz > > While I'm at it, does anyone in Oz have any major behavior problems (the bad > guys and the Lazy Quadling excluded)? There are Rigmarole Town and Flutterbudget Center, and in "The Emerald City of Oz" the Wizard implies that there are similar centers for people otherwise shunned by polite Ozian societies. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Herm Bieber: > How much are your hardcover copies of _Silver Princess_? Why are you asking Herm? They are not his, but the International Wizard of Oz Club's. He was reporting on the Club's current stocks. For ordering information, check out the Club's page on the WWW (that's World Wide Web for those wiseguys out there who were thinking of asking what the Wicked Witch of the West is doing on a computer...) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things [re: Marilyn vos Savant] > Is *she* an Ozzy-phile by any chance, and should I send the Charon letter to > *her*? To answer your questions in the order asked, I have no idea, and why not? [re: publishers stopping reissues of Oz books] > This also seems to be the case with Dover's re-issuing of the Baum 14 > (They stopped after _Tik-Tok_, saying "It isn't profitable"). They did not stop it at "Tik-Tok," Dover also put out an edition of "Rinkitink in Oz." No, I don't know why they didn't issue "The Scarecrow of Oz." --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 10:47:45 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: for Ozzy Digest Tyler, Re Silver Princess, not sure what you mean by "your copies". My last posting referred to the IWOC inventory (I'm on the Board). I think those hard covers were $20, but the stocks are either exhaused or near gone. As far as my personal "for sale" stock is concerned, at the moment I only have first editions of Silver Princess. If you are interested in these, please e-mail me privately. If I find any cheaper reprints, I'll let you know (although there are others waiting in line!). Cheers! Herm ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:02:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Mosquitoes of Oz 1) Barry, Kiki Aru certainly had behavioral problems, at least before he drank from the Fountain of Oblivion. Same goes for Ugu before he became a dove, and a lot of the small, strange countries in Oz are suffering for group disorders. Also: Perhaps the mosquitoes are fed tomato juice. 2) Eric, I haven't read Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz yet. I haven't even got an author listed for that. Also: Tedrow and Heinlein don't force the reader to adopt their moral standard; they APPLY their morals to the reader. ("Anyone who does not believe in/observe system X is immoral/sick.") 3) Dave, I'm hoping that whoever publishes Lurline's Machine has enough sense to advertise the subseries so that we don't get cut off in the middle due to lack of sales. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: _Oz_ comics I recently saw some issues of _Oz_ comics and to be honest, they frighten me. For some reason most of the male characters were made into muscle-bound mesomorphs and there seemed to be an awful lot of infighting. I am very scared of what they will do to the Shaggy Man (who will probably look like Rambo with a bad haircut and in rags) and Scraps (who will probably resemble more than anything else Catwoman from _Batman Returns_). On top of this they made the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger look like Thundercats and Tik-Tok either like a fairly dopey kid or a stand-in for Marvin from _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_. Ozma, save us! More to the issue, in the back of one of those scary comics it mentioned that the Baum 14 were available NOW from Del Rey. Are they reissuing them again? (That would certainly be a good start...) Eric, who wrote _Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz_ and where can I get a copy? (ILLed, of course.) Dave, I have no idea if vos Savant is an Oz fan. I'm not particularly impressed by a high IQ (they do not measure "intelligence", more like potential in an ordinary school environment), but she did (as usual) give a good answer, and on top of that she apparently read the book. Would someone who's seen both tell me if the way the characters look in _Oz Squad_ is less unorthodox/scary than _Oz_? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 15:35:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest On your "true" form: This is really the best evidence we have for the existence of Aaron's machine. If you are transformed, it is doubtful that the information relating to your true form is stored in you, since every part of you is changed. If you are changed into an animal, though, your memories and knowledge remain intact, but you are still a fox, right down to your genetic code. What if you are turned into a rock? Somewhere, information must be kept that says that you are "really" a person. It seems likely that it is kept in some form of Aaron's machine. ********** SPOILER FOR MURDER IN OZ ********** IIRC, Tip's "spirit" was released during the transformation by Mombi, and wandered around Oz for a while. It is not mentioned if Ozma's spirit did the same thing when SHE was transformed, but perhaps as the original spirit, it stayed and Tip's spirit, as one that was "created", was free to roam. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** David: moving is a very "moving" experience (no pun intended). Hope to see you back up soon. Steven: Perhaps the Truth Pond recognized that the Frogman retained his true shape and did not care about the size. Also, his growth was not the result of having a spell cast upon him. Barry: Most people would question if Ozma would do that to people (forcing them to enjoy doing stuff they normally would not), but Ozma and others in the series have made some arbitrary decisions before. Ozma: Tyler, we need someone to empty out the sewers every day. Tyler: But I'm a software developer. I don't want to... ZZZZZZAAAAAAPPPPPP! Tyler: Oh, boy! Let me at those sewers! I can't think of anyone similar to the lazy Quadling, except perhaps the grumpy ferryman in _Land of Oz_. This guy is a little different. The lazy Quadling apaprantly does nothing and is happy to do it, but I got the impression that the grumpy ferryman does not like being a ferryman. Perhaps someone forced him to do the job, although this was before Ozma. You could beat _Parade_ to the punch by writing them a letter explaining that there _IS_ a book out there :-) Ozian "Sunsets" versus "Dawns": IMHO, there was not enough marketing press behind the releases of the Oz books. Also, it is parents that buy the books for their children, so we may not be reaching the people who have the spending power. I believe that the Oz books have a palce, even in the 90's. We just need to make people aware of it. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 14:47:02 -0700 From: steller Subject: Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz While it is true that _Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz_ is more moralistic than _Dorothy-Return to Oz_, it is less offensive because it has fewer pretensions. _Lizard_ is a child psychology book based purely on the MGM film. _Dorothy-Return_ claims to be a real Oz book, written for pleasure by a person who claimed to live the Oz books, but gave no sign of ever having read them. _Lizard_ is *not* an Oz book (even though I included in it my apocrypha list); _Dorothy-Return_, unhappily, is. Steve T. Note bene: This is an *Ozzy* digest. It is not the forum for Apple lovers to dump on IBM clone users, or their equiptment. Let us live and let live. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 19:35:22 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Correcting myself (furiously washing egg off of face) Yes, of course. The aging takes place in "Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe", not "Prince Caspian", and when they return in "Prince Caspian" they return as children. I knew that. No, really I did. That's the *last* time I compose a message after midnight. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 19:52:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Just a thought... Does anyone have any idea what would happen if a plastic plant were sprinkled with Powder of Life? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 20:16:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Amanda - Thanks for the bookstore tip in SF. Ah, synchronicity. Today is the opening of a gigantic Borders on University in Palo Alto. It has taken over the site of the old theater that used to show "Rocky Horror" at midnight, much to the consternation of the local preservationists. I'm going by there tonight. By the way, happy birthday. By the way Aaron, Gates read what you said about him and flipped the switch on your UNIX box! That's what you get for imputing evil. :) Eric - speaking of IWOC member directories. Those used to come in the mail regularly, has that practice been discontinued? Dave >Is there something about Oz that is fundamentally incompatable with peopel living in the 1990's??? Surely you jest! Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 20:46:08 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-05-96 Gili: Actually, the person who tends your garden is a gardener, not a gardner. I've never seen the latter as anything but a proper name (probably derived from "gardener", of course). Steve: Ozma creates three titles in books - Dorothy as princess in OZMA, Peter as prince in GNOME KING, and Jenny as duchess in WONDER CITY. The interesting thing about this (as I had Bungle remark in GLASS CAT) is that in each of these cases the person given the title had just done something important to save the realm, so to speak - Dorothy stealing the magic belt and fending off the nomes with it, Peter silencing Ruggedo, and Jenny transforming the chocolate soldiers. Neither Trot nor Betsy ever did anything comparable in the FF, so there was no real justification for granting them titles. Neither did any of the other mortals who came to Oz, whether to stay or just for a visit, except the Wizard - and I think in his case the title of "Wizard" is all he'd want. True, Trot and Betsy were along with a crowd of others in LOST PRINCESS and GLINDA when Ozma was rescued, but in neither case did they play a significant rold in the rescue. Trot's other adventures in MAGIC and GIANT HORSE were pretty passive, as was Betsy's in HUNGRY TIGER. Billina, of course, deserved even more credit than Dorothy for the rescues in OZMA, but apparently Ozma doesn't grant titles of nobility to non-humans. Robin: Since you addressed it to me, I'd guess you're reading GLASS CAT. And I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it. (Want to write a rave review for the BUGLE? ) Dave: I don't think there's any fundamental incompatibility between Oz and the 1990s; there may well be an incompatibility between the number of copies a mass-market operation like Del Rey/Ballantine or Dover needs to sell and the number of people who have ever been serious fans of the books. My recollection is that most of the original books sold on the order of 50,000 copies or less in the first year or two of publication - that's way too few to be profitable for a mass-market PB publisher, and probably on the margin for a trade PB publisher like Dover. I assume, though, that the BoW/Morrow hardcover reprints are reasonably profitable, or they wouldn't be planning to continue them. I'm sure that BoW, being owned by Oz fans, doesn't demand the level of profit from their publication that Megacorp Conglomerated might, but I doubt if they're showing a loss on it. Maybe Peter will enlighten us on this? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 20:54:49 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Miscellany The FX cable network's program, "Personal FX, The Collectible Show", originating in New York, (but, oddly enough, not seen there,) had a guest expert on today informing viewers on the proper care of books. It was non other than Books of Wonder's own, and fellow Digest subscriber, Peter Glassman! In explaning the do's and don'ts in book handling, repair, etc. Peter used, for demonstration purposes, LFB's The Scarecrow of Oz, and Sea Fairies as well as RPT's The Hungry Tiger of Oz. Great job, Peter, and very informative and well done!! Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 06-Jun-96 01:52:46 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AN "ENCHANTED APRIL" IN OZ: Has anyone seen the movie _Enchanted April_? Everyone talks about other movies being influenced by the _The Wizard of Oz_, like _Star Wars_ (Could someone *explain* this one to me please?), but if there's any movie showing an Oz parallel, it's this 1992 British "sleeper" in which a group of people take a break from their dreary lives in London and vacation in an idyllic near-paradise in Mediterranean Italy. At the start of the film, when they're in London, it's very dark, bleak, and although not Sepia tone, the muted colors make it look like an "urban Kansas". Then when they are travelling by coach at night to the seaside resort in Italy, it is rainy, dark, turbulent--almost as if they were caught in a tornado. Then the next morning at the resort, Lotty--who is in many ways the "Dorothy" in the story--awakens in a darkly-lit room with only a sliver of light shining in. She goes to the shutters, and opens them to a burst of light and color as she glimpses the fantastic countryside for the first time, like opening the door into the "technicolor" of Oz. There is no actual transtion from B&W to color, just a change of lighting from dreary London to sunny Italy--it is very dramatic, and so remeniscent of the early part of _The Wizard of Oz_, I can't help wondering if there was a conscious influence. Just an observation. :) THE TRUTH POND: Steve Teller asked yesterday what would happen if the cactus that is Ruggedo enchanted were to be watered with water from the Truth Pond... To find out the answer, read my book, _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ (when it comes out) because that's exactly what happens! ERIC AND "LEGENDS OF OZ": Eric wrote: >That was me. No, I can't get any more, seeing as how I bought out all >their socks already ... Er, I gather you mean, "I bought out all their *stocks*" :) :) IQ'S: Barry wrote: >I'm not particularly impressed by a high IQ... Actually neither am I, but in Marilyn Vos Savant's case, I think there *IS* a correlation between IQ and intellegence. :) BTW, the Adepts asked Glinda to look it up today, and sure enough, the Book of Records says, "Fermat's Last Theorem has been *PROVED*!!!" The bad news is that now my favorite "Pact with the Devil" story, "The Devil and Simon Flagg" (Simon challenges Old Scratch to prove or disprove Fermat's Last Theorem; he fails), is dated. :) OZ IN THE '90'S: Tyler wrote: >I believe that the Oz books have a palce, even in the 90's. We just need to >make people aware of it. I agree!!!! David H. wrote: > ... there may well be an incompatibility between the number of copies a >mass-market operation like Del Rey/Ballantine or Dover needs to sell and the >number of people who have ever been serious fans of the books. But shouldn't there be a drive to recruit *NEW* Oz fans? :) POWDER OF LIFE: Aaron asked: >Does anyone have any idea what would happen if a plastic plant were >sprinkled with Powder of Life? Wouldn't it become a living plastic plant? (But it wouldn't have to eat, drink, breathe or photosynthisize) :) TO BEAR: Thanks for sending me the Internet article! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 7, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 23:57:52 -0400 From: ScottO1440@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-05-96 Dave-- Had to reply to your quote about the "Ozian Renaissance" turning out to be a "sunset instead of a dawn..." And your question that "is there something incompatable with [Oz and] people living in the 1990's....?" Well, I can only answer for myself, and I believe there has never been as wide an array of Oz items and books on the market as there is now. Many of us have forgotten (or perhaps weren't born) but the late 1960's and early 1970's were terrible! All the post-Baum Oz books were out of print. The only Baum Oz books available in color were 2 Dover reprints. I frankly never thought I'd see the day when the books would be published in color again, but the Oz club would actually have a hand in doing so! In addition, many of us complain that the 1939 Oz movie has eclipsed the popularity of the books but, whether this is true or not, this move wasn't even taken seriously until the last 20 years or so... Older movie references seldom, if at all, referred to it, and certainly not as the classic it is referred to as nowadays.... This is certainly the best of times.... --Scott Olsen ScottO1440@AOL.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 22:43:20 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-05-96 Dave Hardenbrook: >This also seems to be the case with Dover's re-issuing of the Baum 14 >(They stopped after _Tik-Tok_, saying "It isn't profitable"). So my question >is: Why do attempts at an "Ozian Renaissance" turn out to be, to paraphrase >Victor Hugo, "a sunset instead of a dawn"? I disagree strongly with this last statement! For over 10 years we (Books of Wonder) have been successfully publishing Oz books and now have over a third- of-a-million Oz books in print with the Books of Wonder imprint. And we (with William Morrow and Company) are definitely committed to issuing ALL the rest of the Baum books with all their original color illustrations over the next four years. How can you call that "a sunset instead of a dawn"? Don't blame Oz or today's culture, rather blame the other publishers who didn't have a clue on how to market and sell the Oz books. That's why Morrow teamed up with us. We know a "few" things about the Oz market and how to interest people in Oz. Also, as to the Del Rey paperback editions of the Thompson's, the problems with those had far less to do with Oz than with bad marketing, the wrong sales force and a poor choice of format. Judy-Lynn DelRey realized that the format was a mistake (she asked me for help with the marketing of the Thompson's when they - Del Rey Books - ran into trouble with their sales; it turned out that BOW alone was accounting for a large portion of their nationwide sales!), but once they had started on that path they felt they couldn't change formats. Also, Del Rey had another basic problem which has to do with the policy of their parent company, Random House. Random House will not allow their sales people who sell children's book to take orders for Del Rey titles - including the Oz books - because technically Del Rey is part of a different group within Random House. And the sales people who sell Del Rey titles can not call on children's book buyers because those buyers are the "exclusive" clients of the children's book sales people. So you can see why Del Rey might have had some trouble getting their editions of the Thompson's out into the market. The science fiction dept. buyers were reluctant to give more space to the Oz books (14 books takes up a significant amount of space on a shelf!) and the children's book buyers didn't know that the Thompson's were being issued. By the time they did, it was old news and most figured that their die hard Oz fans (translate that to mean "easy sales") had already found them elsewhere. The result was poor sales of the Thompsons and the decision by Del Rey not to issue the last four titles. As I said, don't blame Oz and the public. It's just been bad marketing and sales policies. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 15:13:47 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 Hi Digest! Wiping egg of MY face, Martin Gardner is not a gardener. :-). Whooops! OOOh, Ken's mad! What ticked you off, Ken? I didn't think Aaron was trying to force his opinions on us. Then again, I don't know if you've read Tedrow's "Dorothy - Return to Oz". IMHO, it is such a bad book, that as far as I care the more negative things written about it the better. (Gili's demonic aspect appears over her left shoulder, egging her on): THAT BOOK REALLY STANK! IT WAS HORRIBLE! IT PROBABLY SPOILED OZ FOR ANYONE WHO READ IT NOT KNOWING ABOUT BAUM'S BOOKS! THAT WAS A BAD BOOK! Thinking about that book makes me so mad that I may have been blinded to anything else offensive which may or may not have been included in the same discussion. :-) . An example of one kind of thing which I thought was bad about the book, and may have offended Aaron as well: at one point, someone says of one of the small towns in Kansas (and I can't give and exact quote or page number because I read the Hebrew translation of the book and I don't have it here with my anywat): "[this town] has had its share of shameful incidents -the Republican party was first founded here." Really now, this is the Reepublican party you're talking about here, not the KKK. I'm not out to defend the Republican party or anything, I'm not even American, but that's not literature - that's propaganda. For children. And it stinks. (End demonic phase. Gili reverts back to usual sweet self.) Bye digest! "Hugs", as Anthony would say! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 16:02:09 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Hi all, I'm back hooked up to the I'net now in Norway. Please note my new email address, which is different that the one I advertised earlier. The piglet@piglet.com will also work because I have set it up to forward all mail to my Norway mailbox. Bill W. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 11:06:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 eric im positive the oz cd rom i was talking about was syllybus cause it was in a ad though now i have more to look for thanks to you thanks hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 11:06:10 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 52d Anniversary of D-Day, for those few of us who can remember back that far... Ken: In fairness to Aaron, he said nothing about objecting to Heinlein's having his characters run around in the buff; he was objecting to Heinlein's saying ad nauseam that people who didn't run around in the buff when the temperature conditions allowed were immoral and/or sick. I'll have to say that I found most of Heinlein's later work intolerably preachy myself, though since the man was an extremely readable writer and a great story-teller I nevertheless have read all of those books. I doubt, though, that I'll ever reread much of anything later than THE DOOR INTO SUMMER. (Heinlein was preachy even in his earliest work, but it didn't get in the way of the story until up around 1960.) Aaron: Barry's question about Ozites with behavioral problems included the proviso "(the bad guys and the Lazy Quadling excluded). I think "the bad guys" can be assumed to cover Kiki Aru and Ugu (along with the Yoops, King Krewl, Blinkie and her associates, Googly-Goo, the Su-Dic and his wife, Coo-ee-oh, Glegg, Mustapha of Mudge, the Uns (except for Unselfish), Crunch the stone man, Gorba/Abrog, and so on and on. Of those who were not bad I think you could say Queen Ann and Chopfyt from Baum had something of behavioral problems, and probably others from later writers, though I'm not going to go through all the later books mentally to think of them. (The little knight from MGR who ended up king of Roundabout - name escapes me, and my Oz books, though in the room with me at last, are still packed - is one.) If Ozian mosquitos have metabolisms resembling those of our world, tomato juice wouldn't work. They need the blood of warm-blooded vertebrates for food, and nothing else works. Perhaps in Oz there are blood-trees for mosquito food, like the meat gardens... Barry: As far as I know, the Baum 14 have been continuously in print from Del Rey since they started issuing them. It's only the Thompsons that were allowed to go OP. I know the Baums have been on the shelves in decent bookstores every time I've looked for the last eight or ten years at least. Having the highest IQ ever recorded doesn't mean vos Savant is the most intelligent person living, of course - but she -is- clearly an extremely intelligent person. (And IIRC, she's also a Babe...) Tyler: I didn't make this comment to Barry yesterday, since I was rushed, but you reminded me of it. I don't think night-soil removal should be a necessary task in Oz. I believe that part of Lurline's enchantment includes the transfer of bodily wastes from all inhabitants by magical means; as evidence I note that nowhere in the entire FF does anyone ever show any sign of the need for elimination, even when, for instance, stranded somewhere for days at a time. :-) (And Kabumpo lives in a suite in the palace of Pumperdink...) I agree that the publicity for Oz books leaves a good bit to be desired. I think I mentioned earlier that when a friend who's a schoolteacher read GLASS CAT to her fifth-grade class, it produced a run on Oz books at the school library. (Of course, those old Baums aren't up to the standard of GLASS CAT, but the kids seemed to like them OK. :-) :-) :-) ) Also, I remember a conversation I overheard at a bookstore a couple of years ago - a little girl, about 9-10 years old I'd say, was there with her mother and said, "Mommy, -that's- what I really want! Oz books!" Her mother said, "But your brother already has them all." "I know, but he won't let me into his room to read them! I want my own!" The mother did buy her at least one for herself, though I don't know whether she ever ended up with the whole (Baum) set. Aaron again: I'd assume a plastic plant sprinkled with the Powder of Life would become a live plastic plant - probably with enhanced mobility and the ability to speak, a la Victor Columbia Edison. Bear: I haven't seen an Oz club directory in several years now. It may be a coincidence, but they stopped coming out annually the same year the Royal Club of Oz started, and I've always had the sneaking suspicion that it might have had something to do with wanting to prevent the RCO from trying to recruit IWOC members. I could be wrong; I hope I am, since to me the two clubs are so different that there's no conflict, and it's not as if either one cost so much in dues that there's any reason not to belong to both. Dave: I saw ENCHANTED APRIL, and now that you mention it I do recall the scenes you mention. I didn't associate it with Oz myself, but you may be right that the director was influenced by having seen the MGM WIZARD. (OTOH, I don't regard the MGM WIZARD as being really Oz - it's about as similar to the book as CLUELESS is to EMMA. That is, the movie was clearly inspired by the book, but they're radically different stories. In fact, the point of CLUELESS is closer to the point of EMMA than is the point of the movie WIZARD to the book.) I didn't state my point clearly enough, obviously, in the bit you quoted from me about "the number of people who have ever been serious fans of the books." I didn't mean to imply that only people who are already serious fans of the Oz books would or should be interested in the reprints - clearly that's not going to sell many copies at all, since serious Oz fans today probably number under 5,000. I meant that at any point in time - the 1920s as much as the 1990s - it's probable that the number of people who wanted to read lots of Oz books (which is what I meant by "serious Oz fans" - as opposed to people who might read one if it were given to them) was well under 100,000. That can be a very respectable market for a hardcover book, but it's puny for a mass PB. It might be enough to turn a profit, but not a very substantial one, and you have to do a good marketing job to do that well. And the Thompson books had the major disadvantage that her first few ranged from OK-if-you-need-an-Oz-fix to pretty bad, so I wouldn't be surprised if people who were unlucky enough to grab up COWARDLY LION or GRAMPA to see what this other Oz author was like never bought another one. David "It feels so good to have my computer setup back the way it should be!" Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 11:06:29 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Oz in the '90's There certainly IS a place for Oz in the '90's, just as there has always been a place for Oz in this century! I was (fortunate or not) born in the pre-television/early radio era of the late 1920's. Back then, kids reading for pleasure was more popular, especially as an alternative indoor activity to board games and jig-saw puzzles on rainy days or when ill. Today, TV is more often the solution to rainy day blues. Of my five grandchildren, three are of reading age, and of those three, only one, so far, has gotten "hooked" on Oz. She is ten, and presently eagerly devouring L. Frank's books at a rapid rate. I still have hope for the others. :) :) As Tyler said, we must make people aware of Oz. Start with family! ( My two kids were Oz fans when younger.) I give a copy (BoW) of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz to each grandchild on their 10th birthday, and leave the reading up to them. They all are aware of my love for Oz, and of my collection of books and other memorabilia, and they know they can borrow books from me any time they wish. Now, thanks to Dave, we have the Digest, and through Eric, Tyler, Bill (Piglet)Wright and others, wonderful web pages showing our collective interest and love of Oz, and exposing it to a wide audience. There will ALWAYS be a place for Oz! In the 90's, in the 21st century, and forever, IMHO!! Dick (stepping down off the soap-box) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 11:06:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" To: Dave Hardenbrook 1) Bear, I don't remember any concise term for the belief that nothing is intrinsically moral or immoral or that things are intrinsically moral or immoral. All I'm sure of is that there exist people who hold by each of these ideas. This came up in a Jewish philosophy course. 2) Ken, that rap was the most unusual criticism I've ever recieved so far. Though it is a misrepresentation of me; see yesterday's digest for my clarification on my position on Heinlein. Also: The Woozy of Oz IS written already. Assuming none of our reviewers finds anything which would cause us to rewrite major parts of it (such as a contradiction to the FF that we overlooked), it should be submitted with no more than minor modifications for publication by the end of the month. 3) David, isn't Billina the Queen of the Chickens of Oz? (Not sure where that title is mentioned; The Road to Oz or The Emerald City of Oz, I think.) 4) Dave, uh, perhaps I should have phrased my question on the powder of life better. What effect would it have on a plastic plant? Unless the plant started talking and moving, I don't see what changes would occur--yes, it probably wouldn't need water, sunlight, or fertilizer. Considering that beings brought to life with the powder of life don't grow or have self-repair capabilities, would I be wrong in assuming that nothing would happen? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:54:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: TODAY'S GROWLS > > Aaron >As I belong to a school of thought which holds that nothing is > intrisically moral or immoral, that is, all morality is a matter of opinion, > > Just out of curiosity, what "school" is that? Cal-Berkeley. (/me ducks, runs, and hides, especially since he's seeing Peter H. next month in person...) Ken, nice rap! > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Mosquitoes of Oz > > 2) Eric, I haven't read Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz yet. I haven't even > got an author listed for that. Duh! Why didn't I think of looking in the "Bugle" index for info on this book? "Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz" by Richard A. Gardner. Illustrated by Frank Richmond. Creskill, NJ: Creative Therapeutics, 1980. Reviewed in the Spring 1985 issue of the "Bugle" by PaulS. Ritz, on page 25. > Also: Tedrow and Heinlein don't force the reader to adopt their moral > standard; they APPLY their morals to the reader. ("Anyone who does not > believe in/observe system X is immoral/sick.") But you and I both know they're wrong. Don't you? > 3) Dave, I'm hoping that whoever publishes Lurline's Machine has enough > sense to advertise the subseries so that we don't get cut off in the > middle due to lack of sales. You know NOTHING of the publishing industry, do you? > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: _Oz_ comics > > More to the issue, in the back of one of those scary comics it mentioned that the > Baum 14 were available NOW from Del Rey. Are they reissuing them again? (That > would certainly be a good start...) Unlike the Thompson books, Del Rey has NEVER discontinued the Baum books, they've been doing them for over fifteen years now. Yes, there IS good Oz news from publishers. > Eric, who wrote _Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz_ and where can I get a copy? > (ILLed, of course.) I don't know if you can still do it, but back in '85 you could order the book straight from the publishers at 155 County Road, Cresskill, NJ 07626, for $9.95 + $1.50 p/h + sales tax in New Jersey. IF you were inclined to buy it, which I STRONGLY recommend against unless you're a completist like myself. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > David: > moving is a very "moving" experience (no pun intended). Hope to see you back > up soon. I'm just glad that this is the first summer in some time that I'm NOT moving... > Steven: > Perhaps the Truth Pond recognized that the Frogman retained his true shape > and did not care about the size. Also, his growth was not the result of > having a spell cast upon him. Or maybe the magic in the skosh was just stronger than that in the Truth Pond. > You could beat _Parade_ to the punch by writing them a letter explaining > that there _IS_ a book out there :-) Too late. It was Marilyn herself who brought up the book! > Ozian "Sunsets" versus "Dawns": > IMHO, there was not enough marketing press behind the releases of the Oz > books. Also, it is parents that buy the books for their children, so we may > not be reaching the people who have the spending power. Wanna bet? Sure, there are lots of parents buying books for the kids, but they don't have ALL the money or make ALL of the buying decisions. Children often are given the decision as to what books they want to buy (sometimes parent exercise veto power, sometimes they don't), and kids do have money. I remember it cost me a week's allowance to buy the old Rand McNalley paperbacks of the books, and I couldn't wait to get downtown to buy the next one I hadn't read... > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Just a thought... > > Does anyone have any idea what would happen if a plastic plant were > sprinkled with Powder of Life? Check out what happens in the tin garden towards the end of "The Emerald City of Oz." The Wizard and the Tin Woodman have a conversation that might have some bearing on this... > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Eric - speaking of IWOC member directories. Those used to come in the mail > regularly, has that practice been discontinued? Some time ago, yes. It seems that the PTB (for those wondering -- new one for the list, Dave -- that's "powers that be") in the Club flipped when one or two people used their directories to send ads for Ozzy products to Club members. So they discontinued the practice of sending an annual directory, instead compiling one every few years and charging about EIGHT DOLLARS for one, plastering "Do not use this list for commercial purposes or to generate mailing lists" notices all over for good measure. Surely there's a middle ground somewhere? > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > THE TRUTH POND: > Steve Teller asked yesterday what would happen if the cactus that is > Ruggedo enchanted were to be watered with water from the Truth Pond... > To find out the answer, read my book, _Locasta and the Three Adepts > of Oz_ (when it comes out) because that's exactly what happens! So I guess my started-long-ago short story "Doctor Who in Oz" can't do this now, can it? Darn, I was actually hoping to finish it some day... > Eric wrote: >> That was me. No, I can't get >> any more, seeing as how I bought out all >> their socks already ... > > Er, I gather you mean, "I bought out all their *stocks*" :) :) Yeah, that's what I meant. Of course I caught the missing "t" right after I sent the note out. Aren't typos fun? --Erci Gjvoaaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 10:07:07 -0700 From: steller Subject: Locasta DaveH I'd love to read _Locasta_, but when will it come out? It might even get a review in the BB. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 12:34:50 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: IQs Dave, one datum does not a correlation make, and correlation does not automatically mean causation. Aaron, I see a few distinct possibilities: 1) Nothing happens. 2) It gorws new leaves, stems, maybe some silk flowers. 3) The plant calls itself "Buzz" and demands you play classical music to it every day. As for Oz in the '90s, I still see plenty of children's books written well into the 1800s being sold. There are an ungodly number of editions of the _Alice_ books out with new illustrations (one recent edition I found rather nightmarish), as well everything from Jules Verne to _The Secret Garden_. While the paperback editions Del Rey put out were nice, they looked more like science fiction or fantasy titles than something you would package for small children. On the other hand, editions in hardcover, oversized, and with lots of color pictures might sell better when placed in the children's sections in bookstores because that's more of the kind of book small kids are read to out of, not paperbacks. It may not be the books themselves being at fault so much as the packaging, placement, and distributution. Dave, I see so little resemblance between _Star Wars_ and _The Wizard of Oz_ that I don't think even the most gargantuan efforts of Orwellian mind control could dredge up any but the most flimsy resemblances. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 09:57:57 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Oz in the 90's I definately think profitability is a focus for most of the mass market publishing today. This is especially true with children's publishing, as most of the profitable undertakings may need success in other media in order to be a success. Although Jumanji the book was an award winning, good selling book, think of how much more recognition it gets from the movie. . . ALso, like any market, the children's book market is subject to "fads." Currently, thiller stories, especially by RL Stein (?) are the fashion. Maybe Oz can really flourish when fantasy becomes a fad (again?) I suspect that as the centennial aniversary of Oz comes up, Oz will enjoy a lot of publicity. The IWOC better take advantage of this and milk it for all its worth, especially with the Centennial Book Contest. Three best words to know in marketing: Publicity, Publicity, Publicity. Peter Glassman, I would really like to have an "expert's" opinion, as our resident publisher. On a Lighter Note I wonder if the artificial plant with Life Powder would bloom more if it listened to soft music played by the phonograph in Patchwork Girl? And who says that there are artificial plants in a fairy land anyway? Of course, I also though there weren't any Mosquitoes, either. . . Living and learning, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 14:30:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest General: The Ozzy Digest today (yesterday by the time people read this) was echoed to 113 people. I believe this is a record. Bear: your comment may be sad but true. There just is no evidence in any Oz book, in or out of the FF, that the average people DO anything except live happy contented lives day after day. Your remarks are similar to a cartoon I once read about Heaven. In it, a guy is sitting on a cloud with his wings and halo. The Caption: "Won't eternity get kind of boring after a while?" Ken Cope: From Mombi Records, it's PROFESSOR V! scratch scratch scratch When you start rappin' about the mighty Aaron A, There's a couple of things that I just gotta say. His efforts at consistency ought to be praised, though his moral objections may leave you quite glazed. Quality of writing is the standard you should keep, and Tedrow comes in at the bottom of the heap! His "Woozy" is a tale that I can't wait to see, even if he's made most of it known to you and me. A fifth-grade teacher says an Oz book must be read. When they see it's Tedrow, the students all drop dead! scratch scratch scratch Barry: As far as I know, Del Rey has never stopped printing the Baum 14. Does anybody know why they printed the Thompsons in the larger size? Aaron: Obviously, a plastic plant sprinkled with the powder of life would become alive, but it would not need any food, nor would it be able to move or speak. It may be able to think, but it would give no outward signs of life, IMHO. Bear: I think the IWOC is charging for the Oz Club Directory, but I am not sure. David: I went to school with a girl named Baumgardner, although I never asked if she was any relation. I wrote a short story using her as a character and giving her a job based on her last name. A running gag was that she would introduce herself by saying "Hi. I'm Erica; Baum's gardener" (groan). Dave: Their was some discussion about this in The Ozian Times, the honorable predecessor to The Ozzy Digest. IIRC, _Star Wars_ was based on a book or a movie that was itself based on the MGM classic. Also, this digest and many of our web pages will hopefully serve as tools to increase the number of Oz fans in the world. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 17:34:52, -0500 From: Donald_Davis@prodigy.com (MR DONALD T DAVIS) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-96 Is anyone on the Ozzy Digest going to the Ozmopolitan Convention this year? It would be interesting to see people from the digest. I have already met at past Conventions Jane and David Albright, Robin Olderman and some other people that unfortunately I forgot their names It would be nice to hear from some of you out there and also if there is a scoop on the auction or any other events that will be going on at the Convention! Hope to hear from all to Ozmopolitans!! Don Davis ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 18:22:46 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for Digest All this talk about Ozian mosquitoes makes me think about The Tin Castle of Oz, which is at press now. It tells all about those bugs, as well as how the Tin Woodman's home was designed and built. It is an excellent book, written and illustrated by Peter Schulenburg. It should be ready to mail out shortly, as I just got the proof back as I was writing this! The full-color cover is the Ozziest I have ever seen! As most of you know, the late Marcus Mebes was the author of the little pamphlet entitled Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz. Though he credited Buckethead Enterprises in there, he was the one who made copies, and he did so without my authorization. However, about a year ago he printed (not Xeroxed) a revamped version of the book in hardcover with color plates, a dust jacket and vastly improved typography. This new edition was a real showpiece, but he made only six of them for close friends and relatives. I have decided that it is too nice to keep all to ourselves, so am willing to crank out a few facsimiles if there is any interest out there. Is there? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 21:02:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Borders Report - My local Borders has a GIGANTIC collection of children's books, including a lot of Oz books. Unfortunately, David, not yours. I encouraged them to carry it. By the way, I visited Borders to see what they had done to the theater. I don't buy books from Borders, Crown, B. Dalton, Books Inc. or Barnes and Noble. We have some great small bookstores here that also handle used books, the most interesting of all, and I don't want to see them go away. They need our support. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 21:17:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 Glass Cat: You betcha I enjoyed it! As for reviewing it, David, all BUGLE reviews are assigned by Steve Teller. Powder of Life: What would happen if it were sprinkled on a plastic plant? Dunno. Sounds pretty scary to me! Actually, I agree with Dave. Bear: Keep your hopes up for that new bookstore. We have a marvelous one here in Houston that took over the old Alabama Theater...the place where we used to have most of our regular "Rocky Horror" showings. The Alabama was a fabulous Art Deco movie palace and darned if BookStop didn't keep its ambiance! It's a pleasure to wander the store,and it's clearly a reconverted beautiful old theater. Fortunately, it's been done with care and even sensitivity. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Friday 07-Jun-96 01:43:41 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Digest PUBLICISING OZ: Peter G. wrote: >As I said, don't blame Oz and the public. It's just been bad marketing and >sales policies. I'm glad to know it's just a question of good marketing...IMHO, that makes Oz the Amiga computer of Fantasy Literature! "Only Oz Makes it Possible" :) IQ'S II: Barry wrote: >Dave, one datum does not a correlation make, and correlation does not >automatically mean causation. Did I ever say it does? ( Lurline! Point out someone's outstanding IQ, and everyone implicity accuses you of being a "High-IQ supremicist"! :) :) :) ) PLASTIC PLANT: My feeling is that whether or not the brought-to-life plastic plant could talk would depend what the magic would interpret as a "mouth", since Scraps, Jack P., the Sawhorse, etc., don't have mouths in the biological sense, but simply sewed-on/painted-on/carved-on representations of mouths that the "pattern-recognition routines" in the "system software" of magic (the Adelmanian "Lurline's Machine", the Hardenbrookian "Magic of Everything", or whatever ultimate explanation for magic strikes your fancy) recognized as being a mouth, so automatically made it serve the purpose of a mouth when the being came to life. But what about a plastic plant? If you cut a slit into one leaf, it might then vaguely resemble a mouth, but would powder_of_life::make_mouth() recognize it as such? _LOCASTA_: Steve T. wrote: >I'd love to read _Locasta_, but when will it come out? It might even get >a review in the BB. I wish I could give a definite answer to that question...I am still ironing out a few things in the text, and working on the illustrations, and then my book goes on Buckethead's publishing queue...It may be as much as a year before my book is available for purchase, but I just don't know at this point...I'll keep everyone posted though... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 8, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 14:47:23 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy PBEM? I know that we have discussed Oz in many game formats, but what is the possibility of someone developing an Oz play-by-e-mail (PBEM) game? It could be something for kids as well as adults, focusing on story-telling role-play in the land of Oz. I never have done any play-by-mail at all, so I really can't say what exactly this entails. Anyone? (Hmm, I think this makes two posts of mine in one Digest!) Danny ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 15:27:53 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 Dick Randolph: >The FX cable network's program, "Personal FX, The Collectible Show", >originating in New York, (but, oddly enough, not seen there,) had a guest >expert on today informing viewers on the proper care of books. It was non >other than Books of Wonder's own, and fellow Digest subscriber, Peter >Glassman! In explaning the do's and don'ts in book handling, repair, etc. >Peter used, for demonstration purposes, LFB's The Scarecrow of Oz, and >Sea Fairies as well as RPT's The Hungry Tiger of Oz. Great job, Peter, >and very informative and well done!! Thanks for the kind words. Actually, that was my second appearance on "Personal FX" - the first time was last December and was devoted to collecting Oz books. The host, John Burke, is great to work with, as is the producer, Michael D'Angelo. I hope to work with them some more in the future. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 12:44:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Star Wars and the Wizard Dave, About your request for a clarification of the parallels between the Wizard of Oz and Star Wars: the orphaned Luke Skywalker lives with his aunt and uncle on a barren (like Kansas!) planet. When his aunt's and uncle's ranch is blown away by the forces of the evil Empire, Luke sets out on a quest to restore order, assisted by three helpers: the clumsy C2-D2 (the Scarecrow), the kind-hearted metallic robot CPO-3 (the Tin Woodman) and the exceedingly furry Chewbacca (the Cowardly Lion; here the cowardly aspect is transferred to Chewbacca's master, Han Solo). Darth Vader corresponds to the Wicked Witch of the West, and the Death Star to the Witch's castle. In this reversal of gender roles, the Evil Mother (the Wicked Witch) becomes the Evil Father (Darth Vader = Dark Father). There are also some parallels between the Wizard and the ineffectual but enabling Obi-Wan-Kenobi. Of course Star Wars isn't just a sci-fi remake of The Wizard of Oz. The allusions are I think an attempt on George Lucas's part to establish the archetypal credentials of his film by paying homage to the best-loved quest film in the history of the movies. There are other archetypal elements as well, e.g., the medieval romance (and fairy-tale motif) of the captive princess. BTW: in a recent posting, the H.M. Marilyn Vos Savant T.E. was quoted as saying that the Scarecrow's garbled version of the Pythagorean theorem, in the film, also appears in the original book. Could anyone tell me *where* that occurs in the Baum story? Gordon ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 22:03:53 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-96 I played the Windham Classics "Wizard of Oz" game, and was rather impressed by it, all in all. Of course, like virtually all older computer games (the classics of Infocom, which can be run on computers and operating systems that didn't even exist at the time that Infocom was killed and eaten by Activision being the chief exception), it is dependent on hardware that is fast becoming completely obsolete. By the way, as someone in his fourth decade as a computer professional, may I say that most operating systems have their points? Unix, OS/2, the MacOS -- even DOS in its time (which was about 12 years ago). Only Windows is evil, and that's mainly because Bill Gates is a very not-nice person who is quite capable of openly lying and of flouting the law, the government being either too mesmerized by the wholly unjustified "boy genius" hype or simply too afraid of his wealth to do anything about it. (The one judge who tried was quickly shut up.) By the way, did anyone here know that BG was _born_ a millionaire? That's something his flacks don't want you to know. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 00:35:32 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: More Ozzy Digest Stuff Peter Glassman wrote: <> I was very happy to support your books, too, buying several of them last time I was in New York...and one of these days I'll get around to reviewing them here. Just one question: since most of your reissued books contain the original illustrations, including color plates (even non-Oz books by Baum like SKY ISLAND), why couldn't your new edition of DOT AND TOT IN MERRYLAND include the original Denslow illustrations? And, if Denslow's weren't good enough, why give the job to Donald Abbott (who mostly imitates Denslow, anyway), rather than, say, Eric Shanower? Gili Bar-hillel wrote [speaking of DOROTHY: RETURN TO OZ]: <<...at one point, someone says of one of the small towns in Kansas... "[this town] has had its share of shameful incidents -the Republican party was first founded here." >> I think that'd depend on what character said that. It could be more a comment on that character's own politics than on the Republican Party itself (especially since the original Republican Party, high on civil rights and protectionism, was very different from its present-day incarnation). <> Names got changed over the years, and sometimes quickly. Remember Chauncey Gardiner from Jerzy Kosinski's novel BEING THERE (or the movie by the same name, in which he was portrayed by Peter Sellers)--he actually *was* a gardener named Chance, whose name and profession got garbled by those to whom he tried to explain his background... Amanda Elizabeth Schaible wrote: <> The game manufacturers would probably in trouble if they'd been any other color, especially ruby. The Baum book (in fact, all 14 of them) is in public domain, but the MGM movie isn't, and Disney reportedly had to pay quite a bit of money to use ruby slippers in RETURN TO OZ! David Hulan wrote: <> I don't think anyone ever is mentioned brushing his or her teeth, either: does that mean people in Oz don't do it? More likely, it's because that's something that wasn't generally mentioned in polite company, especially in children's books, at the time most of the FF were written. As for Kabumpo, I remember reading an article (in a tabloid, so take it with a grain of salt) about a real elephant that had learned to use a giant toilet specially built for it...certainly such a thing wouldn't be unheard of, or impossible to use by Kabumpo or other intelligent beasts. <> Very true! I was fortunate that the first Thompson Oz book I read was JACK PUMPKINHEAD, one of her better ones IMHO (even though I agree that Peter wasn't Thompson's best child protagonist). It's happened to me with other writers and characters: I'd read and enjoyed several of Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot books when I picked up my first Miss Marple, NEMESIS. I was singularly underwhelmed and thought for about a year that Miss Marple was a mediocre character, until I read some short stories about her, then more novels, and realized Miss Marple was actually a very good character who happened to star in one mediocre (and very late) novel. Tyler Jones wrote: <> Probably not. "Baum" is German for "tree," and so appears often in Germanic surnames (e.g. Interlac members and former Legion of Super-Heroes scripters Tom and Mary Bierbaum). (I wonder if there's any significance to the fact that so many things in Oz grow on trees? I'm almost positive there is to the Robert Pattrick cartoon depicting L. Frank Baum as a tree which later Oz writers like Thompson, Snow, and Neill were branches growing out of...) Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 9, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 01:03:34 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Leia of Oz Dave, here's a clue: Think cinnamon buns|opium poppies. So help me, Oscar Zoroaster, you're my only hope! Now, the sneaky connection is that Joseph Campbell read L. Frank Baum and George Lucas openly tributes his Star Wars outline to Campbell's Hero's Journey. C3PO|Tin Man, Wooky|Cowardly Lion, Han Solo|Scarecrow is the (highly stretching it) usual correlation. Gili, I bought Tedrow's abomination at one of Mountain View's used book stores recently just to keep it out of the hands of the innocent. Science Fiction and Fantasy are places to try out alternative world views for size. Most of them are there just for the shock value (or are they...) I seldom consider any description of a fictional world to be advocacy. I devoured The Chronicles of Narnia, and was sadly disillusioned when my later reading of Tolkien pointed at its Evangelical Allegory. I resented the extent to which I tried to swallow Fundamentalist Christianity just to make Narnia a place that could be real. Next to that, Tedrow is just a quick buck hack selling bait and switch swill. After reading the digest, I then drive 50 miles to Sausalito without a stereo, forced to entertain myself with my own thoughts. I couldn't possibly flame anybody on the digest; So chose to "Victrola" Aaron rather than go point by point. I guess we know several Usenet flamewars have started with an opening remark of "So, how about that Heinlein fellow?" I read all his juveniles in the sixties between Oz books, and the fact that my soon-to-be spouse had also, was part of what had us hopping over a real sword (from Glory Road) at our Victorian/Pagan wedding. Enya Celtic processionals are a must for such an affair, Marbled Halls was sung, and the Rag from Return to Oz got all assembled out of their chairs and out to the garden. Hardly less controversial than Heinlein is Ray Bradbury, whom I first met in Pasadena at the Saturn Flyby Planetfest event in 1982. He had just been booed off the stage by a couple of thousand fans who didn't appreciate his paternal advice. He had urged "All you women to support your men in the space program so that when they make Mars a place where you can wear skirts you can cook for them and make babies". The last time I saw him was at a tribute to Ray Herryhausen at the American Film Institute. I got to ask them both what they thought about Virtual Reality (in which I was involved at Imagineering). It scared Ray H, but Mr. B was more philosophical. He pointed out that while V.R can be a sort of Plato's Cave of convincing illusions, we still need a garden (presumably a Disneyland)into which we can emerge and share tales of our subjective experiences. I told him that by the time the Bradbury Playroom exists, his Veldt would certainly contain the Hungry Tiger and the Cowardly Lion. I recently saw him on Comedy Central's Politically Incorrect defending Bob Packwood and Clarence Thomas. ("When I see a beautiful woman I wish I was 73 again.") If anybody with a good sound card has a Real Audio plugin, you might enjoy Radio Free Oz, streaming audio comedy from Peter Bergman, who claims to be the Wizard of Oz. He was on the radio show of the same name 30 years ago, and does bear a striking resemblance (circa Ozoplaning) and this new enterprise is looking very promising. (He liked Thompson's Peter stories, and now that I've read Neill's Wonder City, I get some more of his jokes) The URL is http://www.rfo.net John Goodman is doing some of it, I enjoy Mrs. Marv Mendenhall. More Oz urls soon, now that I can finally browse VRML sites, I'll report on what I find in the land of Avatars. Dr. Who's Tardis was the first place I got to visit once everything stopped crashing on me. All computers, software and operating systems bite equally, so get the one that does the most of what you need it to do. It's not Gates' fault that Apple squandered a 10 year lead. Now that my 200 megaherz P6 at home runs better than the Indigo Extreme I use at Gametek for the Robotech game, SGI is buying Cray to compete with the NT onslaught, just so they can stay overpriced. But I still wish it was system 7. See why I should avoid religious issues? Ken Cope ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 03:58:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Scott: Thanks for your ray of sunshine! There have probably never been as many Oz books available as there are today. I can't confirm or deny how the MGM movie was thought of prior to twenty years ago, but I'll take your word for it. I believe the main source of concern is that while the books are available, only a small group of people seem to know about it. Hopefully, we can spread the word that they are available and worth getting. Peter: And thanks to you for your dash of common sense. The Oz books have always (or nearly always) been the victim of bad marketing efforts. I've heard rumors that Ruth P. Thompson had a number of ideas to advertise the Oz books, but the publishers were not interested and sales leveled off. David: Y our remark about D-Day prompted me to tell this non-Ozzy tale. Picture it: a Junior High School science class in 1982. Myself and two friends who were into military history, waited until the exact time of day that the attack started, then we all stood up in the middle of Ms. Fried-Brain's lecture and recited: "Exactly 41 years ago, Pearl Harbor was attacked and our entry into WW II had begun". The other students (and the teacher) were a little suprised. :-) As for certain needs, such as elimination, Oz is not the exception when it comes to not mentioning this activity. It is rarely done in stories, unless the author wishes to shock his readers, in which case the author proceeds to go into graphic detail. Aaron: ISTR that Billina conferred that royal title upon herself, while Ozma only said "You have everything you wish for". I believe that Billina called herself this since at that time, it was thought that she was the only chicken in Oz and thus all other chickens were her descendants. At this point (a little bit after my post), the digest got cut off. So I will end here and post more when Dave sends me the rest. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 06:06:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-07-96 > From: Avigail Bar-hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 > > Bye digest! "Hugs", as Anthony would say! No, he says "hugs" . > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 > > eric im positive the oz cd rom i was talking about was syllybus cause it > was in a ad though now i have more to look for thanks to you thanks Then I shall quote from the cover of the CD-ROM: The Legends of Oz One Hundred Years of Oz [Yes, I know he's early!] Based on the Works by L. Frnak Baum and Roger S. Baum Introducing the SillyOZbul(TM) of Oz! Includes versions for Macintosh and Microsoft(R) Windows(TM) The SillyOZbuls are a part of the CD, not the whole thing, although they are a large part, and animated CD-ROM-style storybooks of all three SillyOZbul books are part of it. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 > > If Ozian mosquitos have metabolisms resembling those of our world, tomato > juice wouldn't work. They need the blood of warm-blooded vertebrates for > food, and nothing else works. Perhaps in Oz there are blood-trees for > mosquito food, like the meat gardens... Would the sap from one of the meat plants work? > Having the highest IQ ever recorded doesn't mean vos Savant is the most > intelligent person living, of course - but she -is- clearly an extremely > intelligent person. (And IIRC, she's also a Babe...) Yes, but she's also married. To the developer of the artificial heart, IIRC. > Tyler: > I didn't make this comment to Barry yesterday, since I was rushed, but you > reminded me of it. I don't think night-soil removal should be a necessary > task in Oz. I believe that part of Lurline's enchantment includes the > transfer of bodily wastes from all inhabitants by magical means; as evidence > I note that nowhere in the entire FF does anyone ever show any sign of the > need for elimination, even when, for instance, stranded somewhere for days at > a time. :-) OTOH, the subject IS brought up in "Oz-Story #2," in Eric Shanower's story "Abby." I think it's a case of it being so routine and non-essential to the story that it's just not mentioned. I mean, how often do characters in movies and on TV go to the bathroom? It's just not part of the storytelling process. (In one of his "Hitchhiker's" books, Douglas Adams has a HILARIOUS interlude where he goes into great detail about what his books would be like if he told his readers EVERYTHING Arthur Dent did...) > From: DIXNAM@aol.com > Subject: Oz in the '90's > > There certainly IS a place for Oz in the '90's, just as there has always been > a place for Oz in this century! Just remember, everyone, Oz is now a classic, and our great-grandchildren should be reading Oz books long after "Goosebumps" have been forgotten. In this case it's quality that matters, not quantity. > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: IQs > > Dave, I see so little resemblance between _Star Wars_ and _The Wizard of Oz_ that > I don't think even the most gargantuan efforts of Orwellian mind control could > dredge up any but the most flimsy resemblances. Then I will put your mind at ease by mentioning that "The Wizard of Oz" was just one of the classic stories that inspired Lucas and the storyline of "Star Wars." "Star Wars" is not a straight-and-direct retelling of "The Wizard of Oz," but there are certainly elements of it there. "Oziana" used to run a cartoon in each issue called "Oz-E-Gags," and the 1978 edition had two pictures, one of the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman and Lion reading "Star Wars," and R2-D2, C-3PO, and Chewbacca reading "The Wizard of Oz." But both pictures had the same caption! "It sems that this human meets three weirdos, and goes off to fight the forces of evil -- oh, there's a wizard, too." > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > General: > The Ozzy Digest today (yesterday by the time people read this) was echoed to > 113 people. I believe this is a record. You counted them all??? You need more to do, Tyler... > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for Digest > [re: facsimile of deluxe edition of "Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz"] How much would it cost? If it's not too unreasonable, yes, I'd be interested. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 06:22:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-08-96 > From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-96 > > Thanks for the kind words. Actually, that was my second appearance on > "Personal FX" - the first time was last December and was devoted to > collecting Oz books. The host, John Burke, is great to work with, as is > the producer, Michael D'Angelo. I hope to work with them some more in the > future. So can we get some advance warning next time so those of us trying to tape our friends' Ozzy appearances on tape can -- er -- tape them? Someone said: > BTW: in a recent posting, the H.M. Marilyn Vos Savant T.E. was quoted as > saying that the Scarecrow's garbled version of the Pythagorean theorem, > in the film, also appears in the original book. Could anyone tell me > *where* that occurs in the Baum story? Vos Savant brought up the book, but she never said that the Scarecrow's mangling was IN the book. Look, I've saved the column (I want to write to "Parade" asking permission to use it in my FAQ), would it just be easier if I posted the whole thing here? Then instead of misinterpreting what people have said about the column, people can misinterpret the column itself . > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: More Ozzy Digest Stuff > > [re: Books of Wonder's books] > Just one question: since most of your reissued books > contain the original illustrations, including color plates (even non-Oz books > by Baum like SKY ISLAND), why couldn't your new edition of DOT AND TOT IN > MERRYLAND include the original Denslow illustrations? And, if Denslow's > weren't good enough, why give the job to Donald Abbott (who mostly imitates > Denslow, anyway), rather than, say, Eric Shanower? I think I can answer at least part of this question. If you've ever seen a Denslow-illustrated version of "Dot and Tot," you'll notice that no black is used in the pictures. None at all. Instead, there are a number of color elements that, when all printed together on the page, make up a beautiful illustration. This, however, caused problems in later reprints, which were less costly to produce. I have a ca. 1920 edition, and one of the colors is completely eliminated, leaving big gaps in the illustrations! I'm sure that in an inexpensive reprint like Emerald City Press was trying to do would make reproduction of Denslow's originals impossible, and so they decided to go with new illustrations instead. And while I'm not a big fan of Donal Abbott's art, he was the perfect choice for this book, IMHO, because his work IS imitative of Denslow's. But what I want to know is, why did Abbott draw new illustrations, instead of line drawing versions of Denslow's originals, which IMHO are superior, and Denslow's best work in a Baum book? > Tyler Jones wrote: > < she was any relation.>> > > Probably not. "Baum" is German for "tree," and so appears often in > Germanic surnames (e.g. Interlac members and former Legion of Super-Heroes > scripters Tom and Mary Bierbaum). (I wonder if there's any significance to > the fact that so many things in Oz grow on trees? I'm almost positive there > is to the Robert Pattrick cartoon depicting L. Frank Baum as a tree which > later Oz writers like Thompson, Snow, and Neill were branches growing out > of...) That cartoon was drawn by the late Bill Eubank, not Pattrick, and Pattrick was dead when it was drawn (note the inclusion of "Merry-Go-Round" on the tree, which came out in 1963. Pattrick died in 1960 or '61, IIRC.) One more item to add: There are other people out there named Baum who are no or very distant relations to Frank. I've even run across another children's writer on the library shelves, Vicky Baum. --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 09:48:09 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Pythagoean Theorem Gordon, I should clarify what I said. I was referring to the part of the book where the Scarecrow gets his brains, which incidentally is the same part vos Savant was refering to. Nowhere in the book does the Scarecrow botch geometry (fortunately). I don't find the _Star Wars_-_Wizard of Oz_ parallels very convincing. It particularly breaks down with parallels like R2-D2-Scarecrow and Kenobi-Wizard. (Honestly, can any of you say C-3PO would make sense with a funnel on his head?) I am reminded of a comparison I heard a while ago between _The Wizard of Oz_ and _Terminator 2: Judgement Day_. (Now imagine Arnold Schwarzenaegar with a funnel on his head.) I'll have to agree with Rich on the toilet issue. I was not aware of the elephant story, but given how well-treated/spoiled Kabumpo is, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a giant bidet. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 11:10:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-08-96 From Barb DeJohn Hi Digest !! I went to Borders Books yesterday and they had quite afew Oz books, including Glass Cat. I bought Road to Oz for my daughter and she loves the colored pages and especially the gold on top. We are reading the books in order one chapter a night. It is incredible how much I forgot about. In Dot and Wiz it is said that the Sawhorse is the only horse in Oz. Obviously RPT didn't follow with that. If a plastic plant came to life maybe it would be like Stinky from Sesame Street. He is always whining and complaining about everything. I may be the only one on the Digest to watch SS. :-) Someone asked how my Munchkin is doing. (Stephanie born April 18th) She is a very good baby and we are both doing fine. I would like to get a little more sleep, we range from 4 1/2 to 8 hours a night but you never know how much. I think that reading the Digest is sometimes the only thing I get accomplished in a day. I agree that the best way to bring Oz popularity into the 90's is to start with our families. All of you in your twenties need to get married and have children soon. I am doing my part. Barb DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 09:43:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-08-96 Dave and Gordon, Actually Marilyn Vos Savant's response to the MGM Scarecrow's misstatement of the Pythagorean theorem was quite literate. She simply pointed out that it made sense that the Scarecrow got it wrong for the brains provided in L. Frank Baum's book were made up by the wizard from bran, pins, and needles. She quoted the passage describing the Wizard's manufacture of the brains. She then observed that "in the book, the Scarecrow spouted no mathematical theorems at all, and it's no wonder--whenever he decided to think hard about anything, the pins and needles began to stick out of his head!" She then quotes the Lion as summing it up best: "That is proof that he is sharp." Peter ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 13:42:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest This post and yesterday's should appear in the same digest, as I sent in the other one too late to be posted. Danny: Well, I've played Pay-By-Mail games for years, so I know a little of the genre. The main game I play is Cruenti Dei, which is a war game. The game board is a map of a world, divided up into hundreds of regions. Each player controls one regions and builds it up into an Empire. When all or most of the regions are taken and Empires begin to bump into one another, then things get interesting... One of the problems I see with an Oz game in PBM format is there is nothing that needs to be "mailed". Most PBM games are in a long-term format with players sending in instructions for their empires, etc. and the GM returning results and announcements of the state of the world. Each "Turn" of my game, for example, encompassed one year. IMO, an Oz game would not need this kind of macroscopic detail. Oz is better suited to an RPG, or Role-Playing-Game, format, similar to D&D or GURPS. In this kind of game, which could be played over an IRC line (it is not practical to play this sort of game in anything less than real-time), each person takes a character and interacts with the other characters and the world on an instant-by-instant basis. This would not work with standard PBM format. Someone on the Digest (or was it The Ozian Times?) sent me some material that put the Oz characters in GURPS format. It looked pretty good. Gordon: I believe that the posting claimed that there was a paralell, if not exact, situation in the book. I looked, but the only thing I could find was the Scarecrow telling his friends that there were all sorts of wonderful thoughts in his head, but he wouldn't discuss them, because he knew that nobody could understand them but himself. John Kennedy: I had no idea that Uncle Bill was born rich. I was under the impression that he (and Microsoft) were a rags-to-riches story, clawing their way up the ladder of success one rung at a time. Rich: Your comments about a good author hacing a few bad books, which may spoil things for readers, parallels my comments about Laumer. I remember when Aaron was very interested in reading his material, and then he finally found his first Laumer book: _The Green Dolphin in Oz_, which is by far the absolute worst book that he wrote and is NOT indicative of the rest of his work. I almost choked on that: Here I went to all this effort building up Laumer, and Aaron gets that one for his first! Luckily, he was able to forge ahead and read some others. The "Tree" you are thinking of was his "Oz book tree", where the Baum 14 comprise the main trunk and the other authors books branch out. I disagree with this model myself, as I view Oz as one long continuous timeline. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 20:59:18 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-07-96 Dick Randolph - Why wait till your grandchildren are 10 before giving them "The Wizard of Oz"? By the time I was eight or nine, I had read all the Baum Oz books at least once! Start them early! Dick Morrisey - In the specific context of tedrow's book, I don't think that the comment about the republican party was open to interpretation. This book has good guys and bad guys. The good guys are against the republican party - this is not discussed or argued, its just stated. I don't think an eight-year-old reading the book would think to her/himself: "Yeah, but then the republican party wasn't always the way it is today." This is not Laumer or Heinlein or Farmer or Maguire writing an Oz book for adults, this is a book for kids. I read a couple of the R.L.Stine books when they first started translating them into Hebrew. I thougt it was ironic that the heroine of the first book I read was a girl who hated reading, and had been systematically inventing book reports for books she had no patience to read, as the main argument for R.L.Stine seems to be: "well, at least they're reading *something*!" My spaghetti is burning ... whoops! Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 19:06:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Weekend Growls Dave - IMHO folks did not get the point of your comment about Oz in the 90's. Care to elaborate? Aaron - You "on the one hand.... but on the other handed" me! :) Eric - Thanks for the explanation about the IWOC member directories. I can never understand why people object to getting mail. I love mail. Gordon - No theorems in the book. The Wiz stuffs the Scarecrows head with bran, pins and needles. When asked, the Scarecrow says, "I feel wise indeed." No Pythagorean demonstrations. How many novels has anyone read where a characters says, "Excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom?" This much realism wouldn't do much to advance the plot. Besides, bathrooms aren't a safe place, look what happened to the evil lawyer in Jurassic Park! :) Weekend regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 21:26:29 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: The Mosquitoes of Oz On the subject of mosquitoes, only the female drinks blood. Male mosquitoes usually just drink nectar. With some species both sexes drink only nectar. When Lurline enchanted Oz she appears to have done a mass genocide of diseases and parasites. Thus, the only types of mosquitoes remaining in Oz are those that drink only nectar. They will certainly be well fed as Oz is desert-to-desert with nectar-laden flowers. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 22:57:31 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-07 & 08-96 Didn't get yesterday's Digest until it was too late to respond to it. Scott: You're right, this is far from the worst of times as far as Oz is concerned, though I think the late '70s were worse than the late '60s - some of the Thompsons were still available in stores well into the late '60s, although in rather inferior editions. (They may have been OP, but I certainly found a few of them - my copies of HUNGRY TIGER and CAPTAIN SALT were both bought new in 1968 or 1969.) I don't think anything much happened to improve things until the '80s. Peter G.: I'm delighted to read that you have over a third of a million copies of Oz books in print. It still bears out my idea that the market for any individual Oz book today is in the under-100,000 range, but that this is plenty to allow a publisher to make a profit with wise planning. And you answered a question that had long puzzled me: why the Del Rey editions of the Baum Oz books are almost always to be found in the SF rather than the children's sections of bookstores. (A few bookstore owners seem to have noticed - the incident of the little girl wanting Oz books that I mentioned a couple of days ago happened in an independent bookstore that had them shelved in the children's section - but most apparently blindly display them in the section whose reps sold the books to them.) Dick Randolph: I've tried to "start with family" in propagandizing Oz, but had little luck. My daughter just never got interested in anything beyond the movie when she was younger, despite my best attempts - the only exception, oddly enough, being THE SEA FAIRIES, which she liked a lot, even though I think it's one of Baum's weaker efforts. (But I also remember liking it much better when I read it as a child than I do now.) And my wife didn't care for any of the Oz books I got her to try, though since that didn't happen until she was in her 20s it might be that I just missed the appropriate window. (Both of them, however, love GLASS CAT - but there might be just a tiny bit of bias involved in that...) However, I have been successful in getting non-family members interested in Oz - though more through GLASS CAT than through direct advocacy. Aaron: Billina is, according to herself in EC, the ancestor of all the chickens in Oz, but I don't think she called herself "queen". I know the passage you're referring to, but don't have the book available yet. With any luck, I'll get my Oz books unpacked Monday or Tuesday and will be able to check references again! (Though Billina was clearly less than truthful - chickens, or at least a rooster, were mentioned in WIZARD. Unless a sudden plague carried off all the other chickens between WIZARD and LAND; presumably after Ozma's accession that couldn't have happened. But Billina doesn't strike me as a reliable source of information anyhow.) Eric: No reason why "Dr. Who in Oz" can't have cactus-Rug watered from the Truth Pond - other than that it will no longer seem particularly original to people who also read Dave's book. Danny: It's true that ordinary people in Oz aren't shown doing anything much but leading happy, contented lives - but it's not as if there's nothing else to do; if that's all they do, it's presumably because that's all they want to do. In most cases where an ordinary Ozite does anything else, it's because he's forced to - to find the proper princess or his father's head, or warn Ozma about Mombi, or find a new queen for Patch, or pass the tests to be King of Regalia, or what-have-you. The only real exception that comes to mind is Woot, though Tatters was certainly eager enough to leave Ragbad when he got an excuse. I think a plastic plant sprinkled with the Powder of Life would definitely be able to move - viz. the Sawhorse, the Gump, and Victor Columbia Edison. Speech is more problematic, as Dave says later; all the speaking characters who came to life with the powder at least had something analogous to a mouth, which a plastic plant might not. (But a properly-oriented pair of leaves might do the trick.) Don: I'm going to Ozmopolitan, and Peter Hanff and Stephen Teller, besides the people you mention. And Jim Vander Noot, though he hasn't posted here in a long time. And probably a few others. Bear: Thanks for encouraging your local Borders to add my book to the Oz books they're carrying. It may be the case that Borders doesn't place all the ECP books in all stores - as I mentioned a while back, QUEEN ANN isn't in the Naperville store, though GIANT GARDEN, which is older, is. (The last I looked they'd sold one copy of MASQUERADE, but that was the only other sale of a recent book. Several of the Baum reprints were gone, however.)(Well, I bought a copy of TIK-TOK from them myself.) While I agree in general with "support your local independent bookstore", I don't take such a strong stand on it as you do, refusing to buy from the big chains. I do have several friends who share your principles - interestingly enough, every one of them lives in Silicon Valley or its environs. I wonder if you'd be so principled if you lived in, say, Santa Rosa... I try to give a local independent bookstore the first chance when I'm out book-shopping, but the odds aren't that good of finding what I want there. And when I'm near the area I try to visit Stars Our Destination - but it's well over an hour's drive each way from where I live, and I'm not going to limit my SF-book buying to the kind of frequency that I'm willing to drive that far (through heavy traffic all the way). Robin: I know Steve Teller assigns Bugle reviews; I just hope that whoever he's assigned GLASS CAT to is someone who really liked it. (He did mention to me that he's requested a review.) Gordon: What Barry said about Marilyn vos Savant was, "In her answer, she made reference to what occured in the analogous situation in the book, for which she will undoubtedly get letters asking 'There's a book?'" I'm sure that the "analogous situation" refers to the point in the book where the Wizard gives the Scarecrow his brains; the Scarecrow doesn't recite a real or garbled version of the Pythagorean Theorem in the book. Rich: That's DOT AND TOT -OF- MERRYLAND - which is, incidentally, a counter-example to your approving comment about Baum's consistency in using "in" for books where the title characters start off outside Oz and "of" when they start off in Oz. D&T isn't an Oz book, of course, but if Baum were following a system you'd think it would extend to all his books. He only had two "in" titles, anyhow; I think it was more likely coincidence than intent that they happened to be the two where the characters started off outside Oz. Thompson, incidentally, was fairly (though not totally) consistent in her titling as well, though following a different system. If the title started with "The" it was always "of" except for SILVER PRINCESS; if it didn't start with "The" it was always "in", except for JACK PUMPKINHEAD. I did put a smiley there when I presented my "argument" about Ozites not needing to eliminate. And we do have examples of characters washing their faces, combing their hair, and bathing, though I don't recall an instance of tooth-brushing. Lots of work to do today (we have a friend in for the weekend to help with unpacking, furniture moving, etc.). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 23:35:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Unpopular Jobs in Oz 1) General: On disposal of, uh, waste material, I thought that they did have to worry about such stuff in Oz, but that authors were polite enough to mention such things, especially as they don't impact on the plot. The only exception by any stretch of the imagination that I can remember is in Laumer's The Frogman of Oz, in which Quelala returns from his yearly goodwill tour and checks, among other places, in a bathroom off to the side of the throne room, for his wife Gayelette. 2) Eric, OK, so I don't know so much about the publishing industry... Also: I know Tedrow and Heinlein are wrong, but attacking the reader is still not a good way to increase sales. 3) Danny, the only game I ever heard of being played by mail (snail or E) is chess. 4) John, fortunately old computer games for machines they don't make any more can be run on more recent machines using emulators. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 09-Jun-96 00:58:13 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things IT IS THE BEST OF TIMES; IT IS THE WORST OF TIMES: Bear asked me to elborate my position on "Oz in the 90's"--I guess at the time (a few days ago) I felt that Oz, like Louisa May Alcott, was fundamentally unappealing to kids living in the slick, trendy, crime-violence-disfunctional family-and-peer-pressure-filled 90's, but I now think maybe I was just in a cranky mood that day. :) Actually, when I think about it, especially as I recall my youth as the guy in school who got teased for liking Oz, I realize that the '90's--with BoW and other books, the Royal Club of Oz, etc. etc--are the most enlightened times Oz has enjoyed in a very long time! I guess it is a "dawn" after all! IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY...: In reading the the stated parallels between Oz and Star Wars, and have to say that I can't help asking if anyone else feels that the perceived parallels are a little, well, forced? BTW Barry, a long time ago I saw a Star Wars spoof called "Hardware Wars" in which IIRC the parodied C-3PO *did* have a funnel on his head!!! SUNNY DAY, SWEEPING THE CLOUDS AWAY...: No Barb, you're NOT the only one on the Digest to watch Sesame Street! :) (I watch Mr. Rogers too!) _Sesame Street in Oz_: In which muppets travel to Oz...Big Bird hits it off with the Ork (and Kermit with the Frogman and Sam with Tik-Tok), Bert revels in the most boring passges in Glinda's Book of Records (e.g. "At 3:46 PM Kimberly Smith of ST. Paul MN tied her shoes"), The Count counts all 11,436,723,992 Emeralds in the entire Emerald City, Kabumpo discovers that he is really a species of Snuffle-upagus, Cookie Monster creates havoc in the Valley of Bonbons, and Oscar signs up Jenny Jump, Jinjur, and Ruggedo in his Grouch-keteer Club. DIGEST MEMBERSHIP: Tyler asked if 113 was the record for members on the Digest. I'm not sure, but we had two new subscriptions today, bringing the membership (counting myself) to 116, which I think *IS* a record! :) (And this doesn't take into consideration the temporarily "inactive" members who have signed off of the Digest just for summer, etc.) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 10, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 06:59:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 that does sound like the cd if you run across antoher used copy let me know ill take it hugs anthony vanp yre ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 16:28:47 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 I believe that there was actually a Baum Bugle article coparing "Star Wars" and "The Wizard of Oz", written by Alan C. Elms, sometime in the early eighties? Could somebody check this? Gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 07:22:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > As for certain needs, such as elimination, Oz is not the exception when it > comes to not mentioning this activity. It is rarely done in stories, unless > the author wishes to shock his readers, in which case the author proceeds to > go into graphic detail. Or it somehow becomes a plot development, as recently happened in a "Doctor Who" novel (another long-running series in which waste elimination is rarely mentioned, despite the TARDIS looking a bit like a port-a-potty...). > From: "Barb DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-08-96 > > If a plastic plant came to life maybe it would be like Stinky > from Sesame Street. He is always whining and complaining > about everything. I may be the only one on the Digest to watch > SS. :-) Wanna bet? (Okay, I don't get much chance to watch anymore, but if it's on, and I'm not busy...) > I agree that the best way to bring Oz popularity into the 90's > is to start with our families. All of you in your twenties need to > get married and have children soon. I am doing my part. I'm not waiting to have kids! Whenever I get a chance (which isn't often, since I'm a substitute), I read Oz books to my classes, and my wife and I are giving Oz books to our nieces and nephews for their birthdays, starting at seven. Books of Wonder editions, of course... > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Someone on the Digest (or was it The Ozian Times?) sent me some material > that put the Oz characters in GURPS format. It looked pretty good. That was way back in "The Ozian Times." It was all right, except I didn't agree with using 500 points to create the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman. That makes them practically invulnerable, which isn't the best game-playing, IMHO. > John Kennedy: > I had no idea that Uncle Bill was born rich. I was under the impression that > he (and Microsoft) were a rags-to-riches story, clawing their way up the > ladder of success one rung at a time. Microsoft pretty much was a rags-to-riches story, but remember, Gates dropped out of Harvard to start the company. The Gates family is well-known here in the Seattle area for their philanthropy -- Bill's mother recently died, and it was a major story in all the papers, and several memorial events and fundraisers were held. > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-07-96 > > I read a couple of the R.L.Stine books when they first started > translating them into Hebrew. I thougt it was ironic that the heroine of > the first book I read was a girl who hated reading, and had been > systematically inventing book reports for books she had no patience to > read, as the main argument for R.L.Stine seems to be: "well, at least > they're reading *something*!" The one time I had to actually take books away from a student was "Goosebumps," because he was trading with and showing them to other students when he should have been doing his schoolwork. I had REALLY mixed feelings about having to do that... (Turns out, however, that this had been an ongoing problem, and when the teacher found out she was grateful I'd taken them from him so early that day.) > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-07 & 08-96 > > Eric: > No reason why "Dr. Who in Oz" can't have cactus-Rug watered from the Truth > Pond - other than that it will no longer seem particularly original to people > who also read Dave's book. In my defense, I was going to restore him to a cactus at the end, so as not to conflict with anything else anyone may write about Rug again. > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: Unpopular Jobs in Oz > > Also: I know Tedrow and Heinlein are wrong, but attacking the reader is > still not a good way to increase sales. Considering how fast I saw "Dorothy: Return to Oz" show up for four dollars on the remainder tables, I can't argue with you one jot. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY...: > In reading the the stated parallels between Oz and Star Wars, and have > to say that I can't help asking if anyone else feels that the perceived > parallels are a little, well, forced? It's not so much the characters and situations that are the same between Oz and "Star Wars" as the themes. Yeah, it's a stretch, but they ARE there. But I think too many people are reading too much in this Oz/Star Wars thread. > BTW Barry, a long time ago I saw a Star Wars spoof called "Hardware Wars" > in which IIRC the parodied C-3PO *did* have a funnel on his head!!! More than just a funnel, it WAS the Tin Woodman! He even carried an ax! (And for those who were wondering, R2-D2 was a shop vac.) --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 10:45:33 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 06-09-96 Ken: You may not consider SF and fantasy to be advocacy, but Heinlein certainly did. Aside from the philosophical consistency of virtually all his books, he said so any time anyone asked. And he was politically active - for, by and large, the same causes he advocates in his books - outside his books as well. (Not, it is true, for nudity or free sex, as far as I know - but against welfare and Medicaid, for sure.) Tyler (and others): To reiterate, I was joking about the lack of elimination in Oz. But mentioning it is not all that rare in other stories written today (though it was back when the FF were written); many of the fantasy books I've been reading lately - most of which seem to deal with fantasy wars - have their troops digging latrines when they make camp, and many of the mysteries where the main character is staking out a site have him or her wishing he hadn't drunk so much liquid because the call of nature forces leaving the stakeout briefly. Even in children's books the subject comes up fairly often - which makes sense, since grade school kids generally think any mention of elimination to be hilariously funny. Eric: >> Having the highest IQ ever recorded doesn't mean vos Savant is the most >> intelligent person living, of course - but she -is- clearly an extremely >> intelligent person. (And IIRC, she's also a Babe...) >Yes, but she's also married. To the developer of the artificial heart, >IIRC. So? I'm married, too. This does not prevent my appreciating beautiful women. It's not as if I had any desire to pay court to her or anything. Meant to mention this to Chris yesterday but slipped past that post without - if the facsimile of "Lurline and the White Ravens" isn't too expensive, I'd be interested too. "Baum" is a very common name, both German and Jewish. Two people with that name chosen at random are about as likely to be related to each other as two people named "Woods". (Two people surnamed "Hulan", on the other hand, are very likely to be related.) Tyler again: Yup, Gates was born to a millionaire. His story is millions-to-billions, not rags-to-riches. Aaron: There are several mentions of bathrooms in the FF - definitely in ROAD (where the Shaggy Man is described as taking a bath) and EMERALD CITY (where Dorothy's suite is described as containing a bathroom, and later ISTR Aunt Em taking a bath before dressing in her new finery). But none of WCs. I've played Diplomacy by mail. And Tyler implies that there are lots of other games played in a similar way. Cheers, David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 11:22:58 -0400 From: homer OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ What color is Ozma's hair? When she first appeared in Marvelous Land, it was described as "ruddy gold", obviously meaning blond. Ever since then it seems it has always been illustrated as black. And now I just read Giant Garden, and it says "auburn". Anybody have an idea? OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 15:03:18 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-8 & 6-9-96 Chris D. - I also would be interested in a copy of "Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz" . I enjoyed Marcus Mebes "The Healing Power of Oz" Great illustrations! Barb DeJohn - Glad to hear little Stephanie is doing fine, but sorry for you about her sleeping habits. (I was the inquisitive one.) :-) Gili & David H. - I DID try to interest my grandchildren in Oz at an earlier age, just as I had done with my daughter and son, but they were not interested. It just takes some people longer than others, and some, unfortunately, never do find the magic we here on the Digest have been captivated by. :-( Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 16:40:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Chickens of Oz 1) Ken, I was under the impression that in science fiction, assuming the author is any good, that the purpose of alternate world views was to make the reader think about his/her own world view. Either that or to entertain the reader. Also: Please explain what a Victorian/Pagan wedding is supposed to be. I was under the impression that Victorian and Pagan mores were for the most part antithetical to one another. Also: I have to agree with you on Bradbury being controversal at times, though for me it's from some of the stuff he writes, which though generally good from what I've read so far, in places it gets rather freaky, such as the ending of that story he wrote about someone who went psychotic when he realized that he had a skeleton inside him. 2) David, I'm very sure that there wasn't a chicken plague in Oz before Billina came, as she would have needed a rooster to produce babies. What puzzles me is how come Billina's husband (and I'm positive he must exist) is never mentioned. Sounds like an idea for a story... Kabumpo: Ahem! Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:45:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Eric and Dave: Luckily, I do not need to count the number of recipients. The CompuServe mailer has the names in a drop box and reports the number to me automatically. Today, this number is 114 (This number does not count Dave, as he is not a recipient). Ken Shepherd: Welcome aboard the Ozzy Digest! David: It is interesting to note that of the examples of Ozites choosing to do things out of the ordinary, Woot was the only one who was not royalty. On bookstores, I say that you should just go with whatever works best in a combination of location and titles offered. I believe that we should patronize stores that carry Oz books, though. Aaron: Other games palyed by mail, in addition to Cruenti Dei, are Lords of the Earth and Fantasy Kingdoms. The original Lords campaign, which began in 1981, is still going on! If my sources are right, they just turned in orders for Turn 192. Before they went electronic, they had generated over 60,000 sheets of paperwork! (Ay Caramba!) For the record, games such as these appeal to a rather small group of individuals who are, shall we say, (ahem) eccentric. Of course, I am one too, so who am I criticizing? :-) Phony Book Reports: Someone mentioned this in a post. I only did this once, in the second grade. We were supposed to read books, write reports and log how many hours we spent reading them. The top five kids (in terms of hours logged), got to leave school early one day and get ice cream. For the record, I did real book reports on the first seven Baum books, but then I turned in reports for several books that did not exist! (bad boy) :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 11, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:17:29 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 Richard Smyers once sent me a copy of his "Muppets in Oz," written when the original Muppet Show was on the air. It is too bad the copyright problems would be horrendous (and likely expensive to get!) because his story is hilarious! Richard did a great job of writng the Muppets' dialogue--everybody's in character. His ' Peter Pan in Oz' story is good, also, what I remember of it, but alas! I have no copy of that one. By the way, does anybody know how Richard is doing? The rascal once mentioned to me in a letter that he and other Oz fans had been trying to think of a way to bring Tip back to the Oz series for years. Once he prompted me to figure out a logical way to do it, I just HAD to use it in Seven Blue Mountains! Tip (and Smyers!) is one good reason SBM got so darn long. Tell me, am I the only Digest reader who actually WON Windham's Wizard of Oz computer game? Surely there are other winners out there... I got pretty mad at Thompson the first time I read what she did to the GWON in 'Giant Horse.' Namely, she preached "Beautiful Women are Good, Ugly Women are Bad" in ALL her Oz books, to the point where she turned Baum's sole homely female character who was also a GOOD female character into a beauty also! Yuck!! That's the one thing despicable about most fairy tales. They preach Beauty is Good, Ugly is Bad, ad nauseum, hurting women everywhere. (And guys, though lots more good guys are allowed to be homely or downright monstrous than good gals. Egad, if guys who look like the Toxic Avenger or Swamp Thing get to marry normal or gorgous gals, why not the other way around?) By the way, the folks at Disney may consider themselves liberated only when they get up the nerve to make a HEROINE look like Quasimoto! (Not joking, folks!) (Can you tell I've been seriously stepped on for not looking like a gorgeous model? Bigotry is infuriating! Grrrrrrr.) :>( About dialoguing on the Net as related to writing fiction--many books on writing fiction encourage not using adjectives with "he said," "she said." They say the words alone should carry the tone of voice. On the Net, on the other hand, use of emoticons (read: adjectives) is encouraged because, Net users warn, words alone do NOT express HOW the writer is "speaking"!!!! Therefore, fiction writers, here's the perfect excuse to sprinkle your prose with all the adjectives you please! :-) :-) :-) There are Ozzy elements in Star Wars, though Lucas does not lift the entire WOZ plot. Though nothing was ever mentioned about Oz in the original Star Trek, I've always equated Spock with brains, McCoy with heart, and Kirk with courage. Tyler: Finally found your Web page! Discovered the Internet program was tripping over a little Windows "95 file called dibeng.dll. Got rid of it, and, though doing so impaired the quality of some of my graphics displays, FINALLY broke out of Compuserve and into the Internet! Looked at several Ozzy things, including an MGM satire called "The Wizard of Odd." Warning: contains bathroom humor in a couple of panels. Otherwise, it was pretty funny. Example: WWW: I'll get you, my pretty......And your little dog, too.... and your goldfish you like so much.......and that boy who carries your schoolbooks..... Dorothy: Okay, okay, I get the point! Or: Munchkin: Follow the Yellow Brick Road. Dorothy: Follow the Yellow Brick Road? Munchkin: Follow the Yellow Brick Road. Dorothy: Follow the Yellow Brick Road? Munchkin: Are you dense, lady? Hit the road! Anybody else out there experiencing difficulty getting onto the Net with Windows '95--try loading the same modem driver into COM4 and COM2 if they are different (mine were, don't know why the tech did that), then reload Windows "95 into your machine. Dibeng,dll caused no more problems even after it was reloaded (so far!) The IWOZ Club now has an online Oz Trading Post! On >ahem< elimination of wastes in Oz--presumably Ozian human waste is not infested with the germs and parasites that make edible stuff grown in it inedible, or hazardous to one's health, in the Outside World? As a result, night soil could be much more freely used as fertilizer in Oz than here? (Plants supposedly grow GREAT in night soil! Does anybody out there know WHY fruits and veggies grown in it are considered inedible? Do cooties in night soil really find their way into fruits and veggies, waiting to bite the unwary eater, or is it simply that our culture considers that sort of gardening repulsive?) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:29:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Weekend Growls Thought on reading today's Digest - What is the e-mail analog to verbal diahrrhea? What is all this about how bad the 60's and 70's were for Oz books? In those days you could pick up used Oz hardbacks for around $10. By the 80's most of the dealers had received the message. Does anyone else remember it this way? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 05:59:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-10-96 > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 > > that does sound like the cd if you run across antoher used copy let me > know ill take it dont hold your breath its not like im actively out there seeking one nor like i have a lot of money > From: Avigail Bar-hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 > > I believe that there was actually a Baum Bugle article coparing "Star > Wars" and "The Wizard of Oz", written by Alan C. Elms, sometime in the > early eighties? Could somebody check this? You're probably thinking of Elms' "Oz in Science Fiction Films," an overall review of Ozian themes and motifs in a variety of film, including "Close Encounters," "E.T.," and of course "Star Wars." It appeared in the Winter 1983 "Bugle." > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest 06-09-96 > > Eric: > >> Having the highest IQ ever recorded doesn't mean vos Savant is the most > >> intelligent person living, of course - but she -is- clearly an extremely > >> intelligent person. (And IIRC, she's also a Babe...) > > >Yes, but she's also married. To the developer of the artificial heart, > >IIRC. > > So? I'm married, too. This does not prevent my appreciating beautiful women. > It's not as if I had any desire to pay court to her or anything. And I keep telling Laura that every time she catches me -- er -- window shopping... > From: homer > > What color is Ozma's hair? When she first appeared in Marvelous Land, it was > described as "ruddy gold", obviously meaning blond. Ever since then it seems > it has always been illustrated as black. And now I just read Giant Garden, > and it says "auburn". Anybody have an idea? Since when have the illustrators always agreed with the authors? Lots of differences between what Baum wrote and what Neill drew, and look at all the many different ways Dorothy has been drawn around the world. I think Ozma's hair color is a matter of personal choice, myself... > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > David: > It is interesting to note that of the examples of Ozites choosing to do > things out of the ordinary, Woot was the only one who was not royalty. Are you sure? Perhaps the reason he's a wanderer is that he's a runaway prince and... --Eric "Uh, oh, here comes Kabumpo!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:40:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" 1) Homer, you will want to read the first chapter of The Woozy of Oz when it comes out to find out why Ozma's hair color changes. The only other theory I've heard was one made half-seriously that there are really two Ozmas... 2) On Tyler's turning in book reports on nonexistent books: Argh! Why didn't I think of that when I was a little kid? (: Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:02:52 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-10-96 Homer: I don't recall the color of Ozma's hair ever being specified in the FF except for Baum's original "ruddy gold" - which could be interpreted as either blond or light red, depending on how much emphasis you put on the "ruddy" part. However, Neill always drew her as brunette after LAND, and all his successors until Shanower did the same, IIRC. Shanower, in his graphic novels, shows her with hair that I'd call more "chestnut" than "auburn", but I've never been quite sure what shade of red the latter term implies. I think of it as being more a reddish blond than a reddish brown, but I don't know that I'm right. Aaron: There's a theory that Billina collected some sperm from the rooster in Ev that she has a fight with in OZMA; this would have fertilized the first batch of eggs, and after that, well, two of her offspring were roosters, and chickens have never been particular about incest and the like... Tyler: Well, it's not strictly true that of Ozites choosing to do things out of the ordinary, Woot was the only one who wasn't royalty. Number Nine is certainly another. Short Digest again - wonder if Dave ran short of time? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:40:29 -0400 From: homer Out of curiosity, have any of you seen "Masquerade in Oz" by Bill Campbell and Irwin Terry? It's a good story, but the illustrations are TERRIBLE! I don't mean to be so critical, but there's simply no other way to say it. It's as if they didn't try to even make it look good, like they just took the first thing they scribbled down and used it. Half of the people I know could have done a better job. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 11:49:26 +0000 (CDT) From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Subject: Re: Ozzy matters My office computer went on a strike Thursday (it still hasn't recovered but I am able to get my e-mail), so I haven't been with you for awhile. Bear: What has Border's does to the theatre? I knew it was ailing (it has been for ever so long, Shakespeare's time at least). but I didn't know Borders was responsible. On the matter of Sesame Street: Several years ago, Richard Paul Smyers wrote a story (unpublished of course) entitled "Muppets in Oz." Of course it was more based on the Muppet Show than SS. By the way, I watch SS regularly, Jamie is six. Dot and Tot: For years I thought the name of the book *was* _Dot and Tot in Merryland_. Then one day I was reading the Bibliography Baumiana column in BB and discovered that either they had a typo or I was in error (something I find hard to contemplate). Re-reading the book I found justification for the preposition *of*, the Queen of Merryland crowned Dot and Tot members of the royalty, although they latter lost the crowns. I re-read Richard Gardner's (not Gardiner or Gardener) _Dorothy and the Lizard of Oz_ this weekend (see the desparate things not having e-mail can do to a person). It is intended as a parable, growing out of the MGM film, on the subject of not accepting easy solutions to hard problems. After all, when Dorothy revives at the end of the movie, the problem of Miss Gulch wanting to take Toto has not been resolved in the least. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:34:11 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 Peter: > > Actually Marilyn Vos Savant's response to the MGM Scarecrow's > misstatement of the Pythagorean theorem was quite literate. She simply > pointed out that it made sense that the Scarecrow got it wrong for the > brains provided in L. Frank Baum's book were made up by the wizard from > bran, pins, and needles. I guess Marilyn and I have a lot a common, then. That was exactly the point *I* made when the subject of the movie's "geometry" was brough to issue here, a few months ago. That, and our great intelligence .... :-) Tyler: > Oz is better suited to an RPG, or Role-Playing-Game, format, similar to > D&D or GURPS. In this kind of game, which could be played over an IRC > line (it is not practical to play this sort of game in anything less than > real-time), each person takes a character and interacts with the other > characters and the world on an instant-by-instant basis. This would not > work with standard PBM format. 1) Back to the idea of OzMU*.... (much better suited than bare IRC for gaming). 2) OTOH, in my freshman year in college, my friends and I couldn't get together a schedule that meshed for playing AD&D, so I ran it by e-mail. Obviously, not a lot of "action" got done, but it did allow for much more detailed descriptions, inter-character intrique and interplay (since no one could tell when "dice were being rolled", etc.), and so forth. A trade-off, but not impossible. Rich and his comment about stuff on trees in LFB's Oz: Piers Anthony takes that too muck larger extremes in the Xanth series (blanket trees, beer-barrel trees, ironwood trees, tangle trees, infant-trees, etc., etc., ad nauseum) David Hulan: > > I think a plastic plant sprinkled with the Powder of Life would definitely be > able to move - viz. the Sawhorse, the Gump, and Victor Columbia Edison. > Speech is more problematic, as Dave says later; all the speaking characters > who came to life with the powder at least had something analogous to a mouth, > which a plastic plant might not. (But a properly-oriented pair of leaves > might do the trick.) On this topic: How is it that Jack's pumpkin head, when replaced, is animated? The powder is not re-applied, is it? (There is no more, right, or am I mistaken?) And if not, then how much connectivity does one need to animate a new component? And how much of the original animated stuff need there be? And what happenes to the old heads? He buries them, right? Do they still talk and stuff after being removed? After the decompose completely?? Dave Hardenbrook: > > _Sesame Street in Oz_: > Bert revels in the most boring passges in Glinda's Book of Records > (e.g. "At 3:46 PM Kimberly Smith of ST. Paul MN tied her shoes"), > The Count counts all 11,436,723,992 Emeralds in the entire Emerald > City A Big LOL from this corner! (Doesn't Neil's drawing of TikTok resemble the hapless customer of Grover's waitering ministrations?) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:34:06 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for Digest I had not heard of anyone doing Sesame Street in Oz before. I know it was a joke. But I have read MUPPETS IN OZ by Richard Paul Smyers. It is not one I plan to publish, but it is a cute sketch worthy of the elder Henson. Eric_I was thinking about $10.00 for a dustjacket/color plate edition of Lurline and the White Ravens. It may not be possible if you are the only taker. I think, though, that I will make a few and possibly put them in Club auctions in future. This will help pay for things like The Tin Castle of Oz, which explains all that anyone wants to know about what those mosquitoes eat. I really need to get that into print, as a lot of people seem to place a lot more importance on the info than I ever did. By the way, what ever happened to your other Oz book? The one from le cake? I have a beginning for a similar book, but had let it dry up as I thought you'd beat me to the punch. Still looking for artwork for the Club Calendar (by the way, does anyone out there have a copy of the Dragon calendar? I would sure like to know if it has been printed, and if Fred has none, who has? Maybe a Club insider can tell me, the editor of the thing? I really need copies to distribute among the artists, too. Also, we are interested in obtaining a Fairuza Balk/Dorothy doll if it is not too much $$$. Lastly, and certainly LEASTLY, the new MAD Magazine has a perfectly awful parody of THE BUZZARD OF OZ, which I can not recommend very highly. About as funny as the recent drone of bathroom humor on the Digest. I guess that's all I can see that needs responding to on the Digest today. There sure is a lack of Oz talk these days. PS= I am trying to get e-mail between Melody and I to work. Is there a trick to this? Melody, did you ever get that MS for A MYSTICAL MAGICAL SUPER ADVENTURE IN OZ (one of our shorter-titled books)? If so, why is it that I can't receive YOUR e-mail to me? Is there a war between Compuserve and AOL? Maybe we should all switch over to Excel Telecommunications? Hmmmm. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:46:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: ILLable Oz Books Chris, would you happen to know which Buckethead books are available through ILL? So far I've only mangaged to get Lurline and the White Ravens in Oz. (Don't worry about this cutting into business; if I can manage to make some money this summer, I'll probably buy a few Buckethead books that I can't read otherwise.) Thanks for your help. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:56:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Todays Growls Barb - Children's sleeping problems, of one kind or another, continue until they are teenagers. Then the real problems begin...... So enjoy! :) Speaking of children and the Oz book discussion, I had no trouble interesting mine in Oz books. I read them to them out loud. (Baum only.) That is my solution to the interesting kids in books problem. You have real leverage because many kids would do anything to keep from going to bed. Tyler - My version of the book report scam was different. My teacher thought sci fi, which was my favorite fruit at the time, was beneath contempt. Fortunately, she didn't know any authors names. I simply read the books and wrote the reports, but made them sound like something contemporary and sometimes changed the title a little. I didn't get caught. Maybe she just let me get away with it because I read Gogol's "Dead Souls" and Tolstoy's "War and Peace" for her. Bookishly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:53:43 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: Doll Patternn Wanted Here's an Ozzy Digest item. --- On Fri, 31 May 96 12:06:57 -0700 erin akins wrote: I am looking for a doll dress pattern of Dorothys dress that she wore in the movie. I would like to dress a 22 inch doll in a relica of the dress.. Do you know where I might locate one ? Was such a thing ever made ? Thanks.. Toto@sna.com -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 6/10/96 Time: 7:53:43 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 23:58:01 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-10-96 To Homer: "Ruddy gold" sounds like Ozma has strawberry blonde hair, as Baum states in Land. The color change seems to have been Neill's, or the publisher's, idea, since Baum says nothing about Ozma's hair color in "Ozma of Oz." Indeed, he never again describes Ozma's hair color in any more of his Oz books. True, Ozma could dye her hair black or brown.... One other gaffe (among others) that Neill made: the Quilty Prime Ministers described as "plump" in "Gnome King of Oz" appear as skinny as rails in Neill's pictures. I do admire Neill's work, especially when he respects the Oz author's text. That's one other reason I collected the Oz series. But there are times his pictures contradict the text. Incidentally, has anyone ever heard of the Mary Frances series of books? They were stories containing instructions meant to teach girls how to cook and sew. (The writing in these stories make Thompson look like a literary genius.) The incidents in Thompson's Land of the Quilties read like a nightmare version of "The Mary Frances Sewing Book". The friendly Sewing Bird and the snippy Scissors Shears who give Mary Frances the sewing lessons seem to be combined into the hateful Scissor Bird that drives Scraps to work in "Gnome King in Oz." The Moral of the Mary Frances Sewing Book is "Patience and Perseverance Bring Success." Thompson gleefully snickers, "Hard Work will Make You Fall Apart!" when she shows Scraps' Quilty Queen predecessor doing just that. "The Mary Frances Sewing Book" tries to present sewing as fun. Thompson so much as says, "Sewing is plain, boring, hard WORK!" In all fairness, sewing CAN be fun for those with a knack for it. RPT perhaps did not, thus her savage poking of fun at Mary Frances. Does anyone know if RPT could sew or not? Again, Thompson may have never cracked a Mary Frances book in her life, but there seem to be too many parallels between the "Sewing Book" and Thompson's Quilties to be coincidence. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 11-Jun-96 00:29:40 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Digest _MASQUERADE IN OZ_: Homer wrote: >Out of curiosity, have any of you seen "Masquerade in Oz" by Bill Campbell >and Irwin Terry? It's a good story, but the illustrations are TERRIBLE! I have to say that although I have thoroughly enjoyed the Emerald City Press Oz Books, I have been disappointed by the illustrations in most of them. Maybe I've been spoilt by Neil, Shanower, etc., but most of the ECP illustrations are just too cartoonish, IMHO. And I know there are great artists out there ( including our own Melody G. :) ) who could provide wonderful illustrations for ECP books to match their wonderful stories! MUPPETS IN OZ: It's too bad that _Muppets in Oz_ can't be published because of the copyrights. This is the main thing that keeps me from writing out two (serious, as opposed to the joke titles we've come up with) ideas of my own: _Aladdin in Oz_ and _Columbo in Oz_. However, I may still write them for fun, and I may write and get published _The March Sisters in Oz_ and _The Campbell Clan in Oz_, since I'm fairly sure that Louisa May Alcott is public domain! THE FATE OF MISS GULCH: Steve T. wrote: >After all, when Dorothy revives at the end of the movie, the >problem of Miss Gulch wanting to take Toto has not been resolved in the >least. I always assumed that she got blown away in the cyclone to the same never-never land for heartless harpies that all those horrible nannies get blown away to at the beginning of the Disney _Mary Poppins_... :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 12, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:50:46 -0400 From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Digest Melody, There is nothing inherently bad about fruits and vegetables grown in night soil fertilized ground. Fruits should be washed and peeled; vegetables washed and cooked thoroughly.. The reason is that, although night soil decomposes fairly quickly, there may be some residual intestinal bacteria in the soil that could get on the produce surface. And this problem applies mostly to tourists. In rural Japan, for instance, the natives are used to (their own) strains of E. Coli, etc. that they may ingest with the salad and do not get sick. Tourists have different intestinal flora and may get diarrhea the first time or two. After that their bodies will adjust to the new flora with no more bad effects. Of course the foregoing does not apply if the fields are flooded with contaminated water containing typhoid or other deadly pathogens. So when travelling abroad, it is best to err on the side of caution. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 09:52:23 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Eggs in Oz If Billina was the first hen in Oz, how did the Gnomes know to be afraid of hen's eggs? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:30:03 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 Melody: I can't argue with the general tendency in fairy tales to make beautiful=good; ugly=bad. But I don't think Thompson was unusually bad in that respect. To get down to specifics, the GWON wasn't the only homely good woman in Baum, at least if you go by the illustrations; Dyna, while not terribly bright apparently, seems to have been good enough, and the jailer in PG (Tollydiggle? Can't refer to the book to check the name.) was depicted as far from beautiful but very good. Cayke is described in terms that indicate she was fairly homely. And on the other side, Jinjur (before she reformed), Mrs. Yoop, the Mangaboo princess, the roses in the Rose Kingdom, and Coo-ee-oh are all described as being at least fairly good-looking and are all bad. As far as Thompson goes, Chang Wang Woe's widow, Mrs. Sew-and-Sew, and Queen Cross Patch all seem to have been good, and Delva is certainly bad and beautiful, of examples that come to mind quickly. I know I've read that in China human night soil is an important source of fertilizer. Though this may be part of the reason why life expectancy in China isn't all that great... Bear: Second-hand Oz books were certainly cheaper in the '60s and '70s, but they were also pretty hard to find - as they still are, for that matter. I know; I spent a lot of time looking for them. (At least, they were hard to find in the LArea; I can't speak for other parts of the country.) This was particularly true of the '70s. There were a few places with substantial Oz collections, but they were expensive even then. Eric: My wife fortunately has the attitude, "Look but don't touch," regarding my admiration of the looks of other women. Maybe by the time you and Laura have been married over 20 years she'll feel the same way... Aaron: Someone in the Oz Story Circle - I think Kim Doyle, but I could be misremembering - wrote a short story on "How Ozma Became a Brunette", two or three years ago. I don't think it's ever been published, though. Homer: I have to concur with your opinion of Campbell and Terry as illustrators. I didn't like the way they did QUEEN ANN, either. Most of the ECP books that weren't illustrated by Shanower have undistinguished illustrations. I think George O'Connor, who illustrated GLASS CAT, is quite good - not in the class of Shanower or Neill, but as good as Dick Martin and better than anyone else whose Oz illustrations I've seen. (I haven't seen any of Melody's, or Marcus Mebes's, so can't judge theirs.) And he had to do the illustrations under very tight time pressure or they'd probably have been even better, I'd guess. I hope BoW gets him to illustrate some more books. Mike: Apparently, once the Powder of Life has been sprinkled on an inanimate object, new pieces attached to it also become alive. The Sawhorse had ears added after it was brought to life, and had a leg replaced at least once and I think twice. And Jack had his lower leg replaced after it was used to replace one the Sawhorse broke, aside from all his heads. What happened to the buried heads, on the other hand, is a question that hasn't been answered yet that I know of. (We know from the adventures in JACK PUMPKINHEAD that his head remains alive when detached from his body, even though it's not the one that received the original dose of PoL.) Chris: At $10 I definitely want a copy of "Lurline and the White Ravens" in the illustrated HC version. I've never had any problem sending E-mail from my AOL account to people on Compuserve, nor receiving it from them. And I have several fairly regular correspondents on that service. It must have something to do with the way the messages are being sent, but since it appears that the problem is at the Compuserve end (since I infer that your outgoing mail to Melody is getting through) I can't help. Maybe Bear or Tyler or one of the others on CS can suggest where the problem might lie. The Digests have been a little thin lately, but it seems to me that they've mostly been about Oz in one way or another. The only major exception that I can think of was the flurry of posts a few days back about operating systems. They may not have been about the aspects of Oz that interest you, but that's not the same thing. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:42:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest Eric: It is true that 500 points in a GURPS setting makes someone virtually invincible, but isn't that true of most Oz characters? People such as the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman cannot be "killed" in the normal sense, though they may be physically destroyed. Also, of course, since they have lived nearly a century, they have had the opportunity to gain many skills, which would add to their point totals while not necessarily increasing their invincible-ness. Also, of course, we must ask ourselves if we want an Oz game based on combat. While this is the most popular (and exciting) format, and one in which I partake ruthlessly, IMHO an Ozzy game should be a cooperative one, wherein palyers combine their skills to achieve a goal, similar to _The Lost Vikings_ for the SNES. Note that in this game, the players can and do kill enemies, just not each other. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:42:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest II Two posts today, since I forgot to send one out yesterday. Bear: The verbal equivalent is junk e-mail. This is a disturbing trend wherein people/companies collect lists of e-mail addresses and then advertise to them. They also send chain e-mail and "pyramid schemes". I strongly advise to flame these people unmercifully. Homer: I'm not much of an artist myself, so I don't like to bring it up, but the fact is that many illustrations of non-FF books are not very good. Some are excellent, however, but the ones in _Masquerade_ were not all that hot. Mike T: Laumer has addressed the issue of continuity in _Farewell to Oz_, I believe. The Tin Woodman was rusting, and the eventual decision was to replace him piece by piece. It seems to me that, although Jack's head is the seat of consciousness, it would lose "life" as soon as it is removed from the majority of his body and the new head would gain life by reason of its attachment. I would assume that a majority of the orginal body would be needed to keep the persons "spirit" intact. Chris: AOL has reported some problems receiving e-mail from outside their system. When sending mail TO CompuServe, remember to replace the comma with a period. Of course, it would be easier if everyone joined CompuServe... Bear: Interesting strategy. "I found _The Wizardry of Oz_ an provocative read, following the quest of young Dorothea for the home which was always within her. Her companions, the Crow-Scarer, the Wooden Tinner and the Lion-hearted Coward, were also searching for that which they already had." :-) IWOC message: I don't recall a dress pattern being made, but it was a rather simple blue and whited checked dress, IIRC. It should not be difficult for a person skilled in such activities to examine the movie closely and simply create a pattern. I could not begin to do this, though. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:17:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: More on Star Wars, etc. I agree with Eric that the parallels betwen the characters in WoZ and Star Wars shouldn't be judged acording to how precise the equivalences are. The point of the allusions is to encourage the viewer to think about deeper similarities (or contrasts) of theme and structure between the two films. This is frequently the way intertextual references work. BTW: there is an interesting and generally sensible article on the link-ups between Star Wars and The Wizard of Oz in the February 1978 issue of Psychology Today, pp. 12-18. This article also ties in very well with what Paul Nathanson has to say about the archetypal dimensions of the movie in his Over the Rainbow: The Wizard of Oz as a Secular Myth of America. Another oblique reference to The Wizard of Oz: in Mike Nichols' Working Girl, the view of Lower Manhattan from Staten Island is repeatedly shot in such a way that NYC resembles the Emerald City as Dorothy and the others first view it from beyond the poppy field. In case anyone misses this allusion, at one point Nichols has the Harrison Ford character, totally out of the blue and without any discernible motivation, whistle the opening bars of "If I Only Had a Brain." In this particular take on WoZ, Tess/Dorothy vanquishes the Wicked Witch (Sigourney Weaver) but has no intention of going back to Kansas/Staten Island. Instead her goal is to take the Emerald City. :) Why "If I Only Had a Brain" rather than, say, "We're Off to See the Wizard"? The extra little intertextual twist here is that Harrison Ford's character in Star Wars, Han Solo, is often associated with the Scarecrow. Looking at the beautiful new edition of Tik-Tok from Books of Wonder (congratulations, Peter!) I got to thinking: is there any evidence that Neill had Teddy Roosevelt in mind when he drew Tik-Tok? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:26:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Ugly Women in Oz 1) Melody, somehow I never thought of the Good Witch of the North as ugly, but more like a grandmotherly type. Then again, I have my own bias that only a good person be truely beautiful and that only an evil person may be truely ugly. Though I have to agree with you that Thompson made appearance and morals correlate way too much; the only really good-looking Thompsonian bad guy I can think of off the top of my head is the Wizard of Wutz (that was Handy Mandy's opinion of how he looked). 2) David, somehow the idea of Billina having chicks with that rooster she fought with in Ev seems unlikely, unless...er, uh, it didn't start off as a fight and Billina is somewhat more, uh, liberal than I suspected. 3) Homer, if you want to see lousy illustrations, may I recommend 1) The Mysterious Chronicles of Oz, and 2) the Random Housies, in which everyone looks depressed. My brother would certainly recommend the Oz comic books, in which, he has mentioned, most of the characters look like muscle-bound mesomorphs and the Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger look like Thundercats. 4) Michael, an Oz Quasi-MUD by mail? Hmm. I could go for that. Also: You mean to tell us that in Xanth that babies grow on trees? Also: What is a tangle tree? Also: I think that Jack's head has the same status as the Scarecrow's straw--both are animated so long as they are part of the person, but if removed, they become deanimated. In fact, in the Adelmanian model, such magic-dependent people can and, in fact, must replace their component parts from time to time because the powder of life is, strictly speaking, only a powder of animation, which does NOT imbue lifeless objects with the self-maintenance capabilities of true lifeforms. Though for how much of the original being is needed, that is still undecided. As far as I know, it might be possible to even split magic-dependent beings. (Note: Barry and I have no intentions of doing so to any character, especially not to major characters such as the Scarecrow and Scraps.) n) On Ozma's hair color: In Handy Mandy in Oz, it is explicitly stated that Ozma has black hair. This indicates, at least, that someone changes it at some point. n + 1) Dave, I was under the impression that Aladdin was public domain; only elements exclusive to the Disney version would be copyrighted. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:01:03 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-07-96 << From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Digest PLASTIC PLANT: My feeling is that whether or not the brought-to-life plastic plant could talk would depend what the magic would interpret as a "mouth", since Scraps, Jack P., the Sawhorse, etc., don't have mouths in the biological sense, but simply sewed-on/painted-on/carved-on representations of mouths that the "pattern-recognition routines" in the "system software" of magic (the Adelmanian "Lurline's Machine", the Hardenbrookian "Magic of Everything", or whatever ultimate explanation for magic strikes your fancy) recognized as being a mouth, so automatically made it serve the purpose of a mouth when the being came to life. But what about a plastic plant? If you cut a slit into one leaf, it might then vaguely resemble a mouth, but would powder_of_life::make_mouth() recognize it as such? >> Until Tip carved his some ears from separate pieces of wood and attached them, the Sawhorse was literally deaf when first brought to life, and could not hear Tip's orders to stop. ========================================= << From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: More Ozzy Digest Stuff The game manufacturers would probably in trouble if they'd been any other color, especially ruby. The Baum book (in fact, all 14 of them) is in public domain, but the MGM movie isn't, and Disney reportedly had to pay quite a bit of money to use ruby slippers in RETURN TO OZ! >> I believer, horrifically enough, that the rights to all but the first book are owned by (gulp!) Disney. This means we may yet see some lame attempt to shred one or two of the books, have the pages thrown up in th'air, and whatever pages are casually scooped up might make it into the script, the process they obviously used for the unforgivably "Return to Oz." When producer Gary Kurtz gave the run down on the script at a convention and gave a slide show of preproduction (at the time they were planning to have the Wheelers wear TUXES!!); when he asked if there were any questions my hand shot up (normally I never "have questions," I just lurk in person ). I was called on, and I asked, "Is this the final version of the storyline?" Hearing the intensity with which I asked my questions (as I wore my green Oz shirt: the same as the males in the Cleaning Crew wear in the Emerald City), Kurtz's face became that of a deer in headlights. You could almost *hear* his mind screaming in terror, Oh god, he's read the books. Out loud he very cautiously stated that every script getting slightly revised and such, to which I prophesied, "Mr. Kurtz, 'Star Wars' is an excellent film, but if 'Return to Oz' follows the story you just laid out, it will die a well deserved death at the box office." While I don't think they really lost their shirt, I remember the pans the film got in its reviews and how quickly it moved on. Would that film makers Just Get It that one can make an Oz film *without Dorothy*? That is, "Land of Oz" on its own as written would make a great film! ======================================== << From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy PBEM? I know that we have discussed Oz in many game formats, but what is the possibility of someone developing an Oz play-by-e-mail (PBEM) game? It could be something for kids as well as adults, focusing on story-telling role-play in the land of Oz. I never have done any play-by-mail at all, so I really can't say what exactly this entails. Anyone? >> You might want to pick up a copy of "Games Magazine;" there are ads for play-by-mail games. Either contacting them or maybe even playing them, could give you ideas on how to design your own. I've never done them myself; apart from "standard" FRPs such as D&D and AD&D, I've never come across an Oz FRP (yet). I *have* found myself in D&D campaigns in which Ozian elements have shown up (just as elements: I've also had problems with out parties wandering into a hive egg chamber from the Alien films ). I always thought a great D&D trap would be the carniverous plants from "Tin Woodman of Oz:" how many adventurers would consider whistling with which to escape? ==================================== << From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) For over 10 years we (Books of Wonder) have been successfully publishing Oz books and now have over a third-of-a-million Oz books in print with the Books of Wonder imprint. >> Does Books of Wonder sell foreign language versions of the book(s); specifically, Portugeuse? I have a Snail Mail correspondant in Brazil. I was running about in NYC on errands a few months ago and "found" Books of Wonder, but I was both in a rush (and it was pouring rain) so I did not have time to visit. (I forget by which subway entrance it is). -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:34:39 +22322105 (CDT) From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 Melody: I assume the Richard Paul Smyers book you called "Peter Pan in Oz" was his _An Ozzian Odyssey_, which is a full length book. I will be seeing Richard Paul Friday in Louisville (I expect) and will report on his health in next Monday's digest. The *technical* for *verbal diarrhea* is *logorrhea*, so I propose the e-mail equivalent to be *byterrhea*. Mike T.: Things attached to one brought to life with the powder of life are automatically animated. Note the Sawhorse's ears in _Land_. Dave: There is no reason not to write an _Aladdin is Oz_ as long as you only use the original elements. The Arabian Nights have been around since Galland's french translation in the 17th century. (Aladdin was *not* in the Arabic original). Of course if you use Jafar, Iago, or other Disney additions you would be in trouble (although Disney did not invent the names). By the way, I have learned that two of the Gargoyles in the Disney _Hunchback of Notre Dame are named "Victor" and "Hugo"; how kind! This will be my last posting until after Ozcon. Have a good week. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:41:44 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 Ha! Looked up when the Mary Frances books were published. They were almost concurrent with the Oz series! The Mary Frances Sewing Book is dated 1913, the same copyright date as Patchwork Girl. RPT could have read them as a kid. Not saying she DID, but she could have. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 11:45:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 Melody: I guess I'll have to reread the Mary Frances Sewing Book. I've sold several copies, but have never done more that skim them. Now, I'm intrigued. BTW, those books are very collectible. Muppets are some of my favorite people. I love Oscar, Mr. Snuffleufagus (sp.?), The Count, and Grover. For those who have read Richard Paul's Oz Muppet tale, it's cute. I wish it were more accessible for y'all. OzCon tomorrow. I won't be back on-line until Monday night at the earliest (I have a balloon catheterization, a "roto-rootering" of a coronary artery, scheduled Monday morning. No big deal, but I can just imagine all the mail I'll have to catch up on.) Eric--of course you read the students Oz reprints, but aren't any of them from IWOC? Steve, Jane, David, etc.--see you soon! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:52:49 -0400 (EDT) From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN Subject: The Rotting Pumpkins of Oz In defense of Neill, I do remember somewhere Ozma's hair being described as black in one of the FF (one of the Thompsons, I think). Being a fairy, of course, she probably can change her outer appearance to match her inner state... Mike, you ask a good question about Jack. If I remember correctly, in _The Land of Oz_, the pumpkin itself was the animate part that animated the rest of it (in the Jackdaw's nest it called out for help), but if this was a permanent condition, then spoiling would have certainly killed Jack, or at least made him very unpleasant to be around. I would suppose then that later the "spirit" of Jack suffused through the wooden structure and took up permanent residence there. That would allow him to continue existing once the head was replaced. Other authors seem to be working along similar lines. I think Laumer had the Tin Woodman's parts all replaced piece by piece (which would result in a nonanimate hunk of tin if the "spirit" didn't stay put) and Farmer mentioned that the Scarecrow had undergone a similar process, which is probably a realistic assessment since sooner or later the clothes he is made of would wear to the point of developing holes, straw falling out, disintegration, etc. Snow in _The Magical Mimics in Oz_ mentioned Scraps getting her shoes replaced but mentioned no ill effects, which means that it probably went well, and even Baum on occasion replaced parts of individuals without trouble (legs of Jack and the Sawhorse and of course the Scarecrow's stuffing, though in the last case that may merely be supporting material and not really "part of him"). Melody, animal dung has been used as fertilizer for quite some time without ill effects on the resultant food products. The problem is probably that no one wants to collect the human equivalent (and I can't blame them). You are also correct in your critique of women in Disney movies. The last Disney movies I saw, _Aladdin_ and _Beauty and the Beast_ I found particularly irksome as the characters of Beauty and Jasmine seemed rather out of place for the setting. Probably their attempt at stronger women (who pretty much end up in the same places as women in older Disney movies anyway) is an attempt at Disney to deflect criticism, rather than out of any concern for women. Your complaint about Thompson with her "pretty-good, ugly-bad" view, which is shared by Disney, is quite correct, though I think the problem is a lot deeper. In the media in general, how many women characters are you going to find who are less-than- supermodelish and good compared to homely good men characters? Quite a bit less. Most of the women characters I can recall from both books and audiovisual media are in the very beautiful to drop-dead gorgeous category, those falling outside that usually also being baddies (compare the only two women in H. Ryder Haggard's _King Solomon's Mines_). Oh, dear, I'm on a rant. I'd better stop before my fingers hurt. Barry "Yes, we know all about that stuff, you're making the digest a lot longer" Adelman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:55:56 -0400 From: ScottO1440@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 Perhaps to clarify that this is one of the best times for Oz--I certainly didn't mean, or intend to imply that this is the best time to start collecting 1st editions. The best time to start collecting 1st editions is always yesterday.... The days I could pick up a mint 1st edition of Lost Princess for $5.00 are gone. However, for new products, and for quality of product (books, dolls, toys, etc.) what's available today cannot be beat. About the "classic" status of the 1939 Oz movie: there are movie reference books out today that say that "Wizard" was "robbed" by "Gone With The Wind" for best picture. That would have been unheard of 15-20 years ago! An interesting discussion can be made about why the decline in status of GWTW in the last 15-20 years and the rise of the WOZ. Thanks. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:36:26 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-10-96 Hi again! Another few days... David Hulan wrote: <> Speaking of Heinlein (as many were), it's especially ironic that his characters were a bit surprised to find bathrooms (complete with toilets) in Oz. Apparently there was elimination but no sex in Heinlein's Oz, which is particularly strange given his proclivities, since the absence of both from the FF is purely a matter of what was considered acceptable in books (especially children's books) at the time they appeared. Melody Keller wrote: <> Very true...she was a bit more old-fashioned in that regard than Baum. Also, she seemed to use a lot more boys as protagonists than girls, in an unusual contrast from what might have been expected. (It wasn't even a matter of writing for a particular child--e.g., Lewis Carroll's using a girl protagonist because he was writing for a real Alice--since all of Baum's children were boys, and Thompson was single and had no children of her own.) <> Do Miss Spider and Mrs. Ladybug in JAMES AND THE GIANT PEACH count? And, unless their HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME goes even farther from Victor Hugo than I think it will, I don't think Quasimodo gets the girl. Seriously, though, in SLEEPING BEAUTY it *was* the beautiful Maleficent who was the villainess, as opposed to the three relatively homely good fairies. Michael Turniansky wrote: <> I suspect (and even thought of submitting a story to OZIANA about it) that the Scarecrow thought back on the Tin Woodman's experiences. He too had lost his head and his other original body parts and had them replaced by tin ones, but his consciousness always remained in the greater part of his body. The same with the Scarecrow, who'd had his straw replaced several times (with the Wizard's brains in his head, and at least once with money in his body). None of the old straw remained alive. Nor did the Gump's parts once he was disassembled, though his head still did. And finally, the Sawhorse had assimilated and been able to use a leg from Jack's body...all right, that had been sprinkled with the powder, but the leg Jack himself later made from a table leg wasn't. He could still use it. The clear conclusion is that in Oz one's consciousness resides in the greater part of one's body, or whatever part one chooses. Nick and Jack and the Scarecrow *wanted* to be able to use those body parts like their original ones, so they could. (An interesting question: if he tried, could Cap'n Bill learn to move his wooden leg like a real one? Possibly, and possibly not (since he got it long before he came to Oz), and in any case I don't think he'd really want to. Wasn't it David in GLASS CAT who had Billy offer to restore his real leg, and have Bill turn it down? It just struck me that that David's hero is the *ninth* individual named Bill (or William) in the Oz books...) As to what happens with the discarded parts..probably nothing in most cases. A human head might be a special case (as with Chopfyt and Nick's original head in TIN WOODMAN), since it contains a brain, but Jack's head, once he's settled into his new one (it *did* remain alive when he temporarily lost it in LAND), probably not. Very likely the Gump would be able to fly again if reassembled from all, or even most, of his original parts (Baum himself so indicated in his probably noncanonical QUEER VISITORS), but I don't think we have anything to worry about from the Scarecrow's discarded straw... Richard Baumann wrote: <> Well, I didn't make up any books to report on, but I remember reviewing a *lot* of Oz books when I was in second grade or thereabouts, and at least once I did a list of "Books That Might Be," starring Oz characters I hadn't (yet) seen in books of their own. Some, as I later found out, actually existed in the FF (THE SCARECROW OF OZ, THE COWARDLY LION OF OZ), others were added later outside it, some by people here on the Digest (I know I had DOROTHY OF OZ, and, I think, THE GLASS CAT OF OZ and maybe even THE WOOZY OF OZ as well), and some I'd still like to see (I particularly remember PROFESSOR WOGGLEBUG OF OZ...sorry, THE WOGGLE-BUG BOOK just isn't enough). Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 15:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest III This is the THIRD posting today for the Ozzy Digest, since I did not fully respond to yesterday's. Rug as cactus: In the battle for consistency, Rug is a special case. Everyone loves to use him, and he probably holds the all-time record for being transformed into different shapes in his endless quest to conquer the Land of Oz. In order to accomodate those who wish to be consistent, but may not know the entire history of Rug's transformations, we can assume that Rug has had several other adventures that we do not (yet) know about, and for the most part, Ozma has chosen the cactus as his "default" shape. This was his final shape in the FF, and the one that most authors would probably have him start from. They can then have him changed into anything else, and there will be no conflict with other authors. Eric's idea (just have him turned back into a cactus at the end) is an easy solution, as it completes the circle. Hair Color: Like Ozma, Dorothy changed her hair as well. In _Wizard_, she was a brunette, but afterward, she was blond. Someone said their hair color is smply a matter of choice, especially later in the series, where they have access to enough magic to be able to dye their hair instantly. Aaron and David: I was going to mention David's theory about the fight(?) that Billina had with the rooster in _Ozma_, since he mentioned this in a letter to the Oz Research Group, but he already mentioned it, so never mind. Finally, I am all caught up! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 12:46:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 > > Tell me, am I the only Digest reader who actually WON Windham's Wizard of > Oz computer game? Surely there are other winners out there... I didn't, but I watched a friend of mine win it once... > The IWOZ Club now has an online Oz Trading Post! They've had it for some time now, actually... Then Bear came along and said: > What is all this about how bad the 60's and 70's were for Oz books? In those > days you could pick up used Oz hardbacks for around $10. By the 80's most of > the dealers had received the message. Does anyone else remember it this way? Well, first we had to KNOW about them, which most of us young 'uns didn't. And ten dollars is a lot to a kid just discovering Oz books and whose week's allowance just covers the cost of a NEW book. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-10-96 > > Short Digest again - wonder if Dave ran short of time? Nah, it's probably just a case of nobody saying anything. Dave can't put it in the Digest if it ain't there in the first place. > From: homer > > Out of curiosity, have any of you seen "Masquerade in Oz" by Bill Campbell > and Irwin Terry? It's a good story, but the illustrations are TERRIBLE! I > don't mean to be so critical, but there's simply no other way to say it. > It's as if they didn't try to even make it look good, like they just took > the first thing they scribbled down and used it. Half of the people I know > could have done a better job. Hey! That's my illustrators on "Queen Ann" you're dissing there. (But yeah, ECP may want to consider some more Neill-esque illustrators. DEFINITELY Melody Grandy!) > From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) > Subject: Re: Ozzy matters > > I re-read Richard Gardner's (not Gardiner or Gardener) _Dorothy and the > Lizard of Oz_ this weekend (see the desparate things not having e-mail > can do to a person). It is intended as a parable, growing out of the > MGM film, on the subject of not accepting easy solutions to hard > problems. After all, when Dorothy revives at the end of the movie, the > problem of Miss Gulch wanting to take Toto has not been resolved in the > least. But in the context of the movie, I VERY much doubt that Gardner's solution would work. And just because it's a parable doesn't mean it's a good book. > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-96 > > Piers Anthony takes that too muck larger extremes in the Xanth > series (blanket trees, beer-barrel trees, ironwood trees, tangle trees, > infant-trees, etc., etc., ad nauseum) What about all of the products grown on trees in Oogaboo, the lunch box and dinner pail trees in Ev, the Fiddlestick Forest, the Indus-Tree, etc., etc. As wild as some of the Xanthian trees are, I think Oz and the surrounding countries have them beat. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for Digest > > Eric_I was thinking about $10.00 for a dustjacket/color plate edition of > Lurline and the White Ravens. It may not be possible if you are the only > taker. Well, I'm not, and if it's that little, I would DEFINITELY get it. > By the way, what ever happened > to your other Oz book? The one from le cake? I have a beginning for a similar > book, but had let it dry up as I thought you'd beat me to the punch. Nothing's happened with -- er -- THAT book. If somebody else beats me to the punch, so be it, that's one less title I have to worry about writing myself then. > Lastly, and certainly LEASTLY, the new MAD Magazine has a perfectly awful > parody of THE BUZZARD OF OZ, which I can not recommend very highly. About as > funny as the recent drone of bathroom humor on the Digest. So what do you expect from "Mad"??? My folks have some REALLY old "Mad"s from the late 50s and early 60s, and the magazine hasn't changed much from then. > I guess that's all I can see that needs responding to on the Digest today. > There sure is a lack of Oz talk these days. Well, everyone is welcome to introduce new Ozzy topics whenever they can think of one. > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: ILLable Oz Books > > Chris, would you happen to know which Buckethead books are available > through ILL? So far I've only mangaged to get Lurline and the White > Ravens in Oz. (Don't worry about this cutting into business; if I can > manage to make some money this summer, I'll probably buy a few Buckethead > books that I can't read otherwise.) Thanks for your help. You know, there IS such a thing as private e-mail if a person has a specific question for a specific person... > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-10-96 > > In all fairness, sewing CAN be fun for those with a knack for it. RPT > perhaps did not, thus her savage poking of fun at Mary Frances. Does anyone > know if RPT could sew or not? I very much doubted it, she was hardly the domestic type... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:50:38 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest Okay, I am going to go ahead and produce 10 facsimile copies of the color-plate edition of Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz. (Oops! Sorry, I left the x off of the e yesterday. I am aware of the fact that it should be there. Anyone who makes this grave error is in for trouble!) I will offer them here first. If they sell out at $10.00 each, all well and good. If not, I will put them in the Winkie auction at some outlandish consignment rate. Anyone wanting one drop me an e-mail and I'll hold it for you on a first come first served basis. As for Inter Library Loan, I usually avoid putting my own publications in libraries. Some of the out-of-print titles are possibly there, though. There is a library in CA with a Silver Shoes, unless someone has stolen it. Several of the AZ libraries have stuff that Marcus Mebes donated to them. And I know that several of the (NON-Buckethead) Wiz Kids' books are in local libraries, some having been re-bound into hardback. I am sorry, too, that the Muppet Show never produced Smyers' little story as a sketch. He had intended to submit it to Henson to use in this way. Oh, well. In any event, I see no reason why the ALADDIN story can't be done. Cedrtainly there is no Copyright on that, unless you plan to use the Robin Williams image of the genie in 100% recognizable form (he shape-changes so often, though, I see no trouble). On the issue of Neill illustrations, it is true that MUCH MORE OFTEN THAN NOT they are in an absolute haze as to the text. This was a major problem in putting together the dragon calendar for the Oz Club. Many of the artists I used were not familiar with the entire FF, and so needed a reference. I had the ability to copy Neill's art, but it was ALL WRONG, as usual. In light of the poor writing quality found in Neill's self-written books, I have no option but to suspect that, though he was a fine artist (lousy illustrator, but fine artist), he was almost completely illiterate. I can only suspect that he was unable to read any descriptions, hence he had to go with his own imagination, which was quite fertile unto itself, but had little or nothing to do with Oz. It's a shame, really, that the publisher was not willing to hire an ILLUSTRATOR to take over the series earlier. On that subject, I will try another approach with Melody. I want that book illustrated, by gum! Will fall back on the old-fashioned way and just use the post office. It may be snail-paced, as someone on the digest said, but it works. By the way, I think I got that last attempt at e-mailing it back, all garbled up so that it reads like a Neill book now. I hope this means that it isn't bouncing around on the Net where anyone can get at it for free... Until tomorrow, Wisdom, Love and Courage! CD &RX ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 12-Jun-96 00:46:03 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE ABOUT BEAUTY VS. HOMLINESS: Speaking as someone who tends to think of himself as homely (though it's probably negativism brought on by a media that insists that everyone have "chisled features"), I have to concur with Barry's assesment about the media in general making good gals supermodels and casting all others as baddies...Look at Margaret Hamilton--did she *EVER* have a role that was sympathetic?...I do think though that the homely male heroes are just as rare. For years Walter Matthau was cast as the villian (or at least the guy who *didn't* get the girl). Only in a few recent films like _Hopscotch_ and _Grumpier Old Men_ has it been acknowledged that guys who look like Matthau ( who if he were 28 would look a lot like me :) ) can have girlfriends. I hope to do my part in rectifying this though--FWIW, Dan is no oil painting. :) I agree with Aaron that Locasta (Good W. of North) is not "ugly" (though Thompson said she was) but just "grandmotherly". I think her goodness make her seem beautiful to those who know her! :) I agree also that Disney is as guilty as anyone of beauty = goodness fallacies. True, in _Sleeping Beauty_ the three fairies are homely; on the other hand, Sleeping Beauty herself looks like Barbie and the Prince like Ken (typical in later Disney films)! And as much as I like Aladdin, Jasmine is similarly Cupie-doll-ish...At least June Duprez (the Princess in the 1940 _Thief of Bagdad_) was Asian-looking! Lloyd Bentson: Princess Jasmine, June Duprez was a friend of mine, and you're no June Duprez! BTW, Naroldi the Mind-Reader predicts that Disney's Quasimoto *WILL* marry Esmerelda!!! (After all, *stranger* movie adaptations have been ground out by Hollywood--In the old 1930's version of _Moby Dick_, Ahab not only kills the whale, but he returns home and marries his *girlfriend*!!!) So maybe we *will* have a homely guy getting the girl in a Disney movie, but still it will be an exeption, not the rule. (One movie that infuriated me was _Muriel's Wedding_ in which the homely Muriel marries not the homely guy who loves her but the pea-brained hunk that literally hates the sight of her! -- Divorce of course soon results. So much for having a life as good as an ABBA song.) I guess about the only movie about two homely people finding and loving each other is _Marty_. Pity there aren't more. Well enough ranting, since I haven't mentioned anything Ozzy in the last twenty-odd lines. :) I'll just hope that I'll meet a girl that will know *I'm* worth something, even if I *don't* look like Andy Garcia. :) FOR SALE: I have a spare copy of _Masquarade in Oz_ for sale for $5.00. If interested, please E-mail me privately. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 13, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Melody >Though nothing was ever mentioned about Oz in the original Star Trek, I've always equated Spock with brains, McCoy with heart, and Kirk with courage. Does that make Counselor Cleavage Dorothy? :) :) Stephen - A contractor bought the old Varsity Theater in Palo Alto over the screaming objections of the locals and converted it to a gasp "chain bookstore" that is Borders. (Only a few years earlier a Crown store was driven out of the other end of University Ave. due to lack of customers.) Theater otherwise is alive and well in PA. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:43:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Melody and Eric: RPT most certainly did sew. I have her sewing basket, complete with beeswax! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 11:58:44 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Mike: >If Billina was the first hen in Oz, how did the Gnomes know to be >afraid of hen's eggs? The Nomes aren't in Oz, and there are known to be chickens in Ev. Also, the Nomes apparently are spread out even into our world, since they captured the Shaggy Man's brother in a mine in Colorado. Plenty of opportunity to learn to fear hens' eggs. And anyhow, apparently other types of eggs are also dangerous to them; there's the oztrich egg in GNOME KING and a dinosaur egg in the non-FF CORY, for two. And Rug feared laying a goose egg in MAGIC. There are certainly plenty of birds in Oz, even if there weren't any hens in Oz before Billina. We know there was at least one rooster, though, mentioned in WIZARD, and if there were no hens it's hard to see how he'd have gotten there. Aaron: I think there's a difference between inappropriate illustrations (which the Oz comics certainly have) and bad art (which Campbell & Terry, in my opinion, produce - sorry, Eric). The art in MYSTERIOUS CHRONICLES isn't very well drawn, but does depict the scenes described in the text. The art in the Random Housies, IIRC, isn't badly executed but doesn't seem at all "Ozzy". (I've only reread MR. TINKER in the past ten years, so I may be recalling it wrong.) The Oz comics are very well-drawn, but the characters for the most part don't look the way we've learned to think of them. I'd forgotten the reference to Ozma's black hair in HANDY MANDY. Thanks for reminding me. (Almost certainly Thompson was going by the way Neill had been drawing it for so many years by then.) Badger: Disney had bought the rights to the Oz books, but since all the Baums are now PD, anybody has the right to make movies based on them, and Disney is unlikely to make another one after the lack of success of RETURN TO OZ (which I personally liked a lot, even though it wasn't consistent with any of the books - so what, neither was the MGM WIZARD). Books of Wonder is at the 18th Street stop on the 7th Avenue subway line. And well worth a visit any time you're in the city. But I don't think they have Portuguese versions of the Oz books. Barry: Another instance of part-replacement was Aunt Em sewing a new eye on Scraps, in, I think, LOST PRINCESS. In our culture the use of manure as fertilizer is generally confined to that from pure herbivores - which has a much less umpleasant smell than that from omnivores (pigs or humans) or carnivores (dogs or cats). If you don't remember many less-than-beautiful women in books then you must not read many contemporary mysteries. Most of the female protagonists in those are far from gorgeous; many are decidedly homely. Scott: I think the relative rise in status of WOZ vs. GWTW in the recent past is fairly easy to understand. WOZ is pretty much timeless; aside from the relatively simple special effects, there's nothing much in it that dates - which is true of the books as well. GWTW, on the other hand, is strongly rooted in a pre-WW II American mind-set that seems very dated to modern audiences. Both were great movies in their day, but WOZ holds up better to time. I'm willing to bet that the book versions of WOZ outsell any reprints of the book of GWTW these days as well. Rich: You need to reread GLASS CAT - my male protagonist's name was Barry, not Billy. But yes, I was the one who had him offer to restore Cap'n Bill's meat leg, and had him turned down. (The fact that none of the magic-workers in Oz had ever restored that leg seemed improbable to me unless Cap'n Bill didn't want it restored, so I made it explicit.) And I'm currently working on PROFESSOR WOGGLE-BUG OF OZ, as it happens... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 11:58:53 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Aaron: > > Also: You mean to tell us that in Xanth that babies grow on trees? No, usually the stork brings them (really!). The particular tree in question, the infant-tree, grew aggressive babies decked out in diapers, with helmets and (pop?)guns. Typical of pun-filled Xanth. > > Also: What is a tangle tree? > The most dangerous tree in Xanth, it is an aggressive meat-eater that grabs people animals in its tentacles, and eats them. Technical aside to Barry and Aaron: Barry and Tyler both used the word "spirit" referring to creatures animated by the PoL. Do you feel the Jack pumpkinhead, et. al has a "ruach" or a "nefesh" (spirit or soul, roughly, to the rest of you)? If the latter, where did it come from? If the former, how can they talk (since I believe the power of speech is described as being only available to the nefesh)? In other words, is it a golem, a gilgul, or a gilgul/golem ("Golly, Gil! It's a Gillikin gilgul-golem!") *groan* ?: > You might want to pick up a copy of "Games Magazine;" there are ads for > play-by-mail games. Yay, GAMES! I have been reading them since they first came out, 18 years ago, and am the proud winner of a Games T-shirt! Badger: > I *have* found myself in D&D campaigns in which > Ozian elements have shown up (just as elements: I've also had problems with > out parties wandering into a hive egg chamber from the Alien films ). I mentioned at one time (here, or in private to Tyler? I don't recall) that my campaign had the little pink bear from LOST PRINCESS. After asking it about where to find the largest treasures on the level, and stuff, my goody two-shoes players decided to ask it who it belonged to (over the objection of one character). When they found out it belonged to the King of the Bears, they decided to return it, so I had to create an entire KotB scenario. Silly Ozbuls! SJT: > > The Arabian Nights have been around since > Galland's french translation in the 17th century. (Aladdin was *not* in > the Arabic original). Although, as my brother is fond of pointing out, Aladdin, according to the 1000 nights and a night was from....China! Or, as my brother likes to put it, "What Full-length Disney cartoon takes place mostly in China?" Barry: > You are also > correct in your critique of women in Disney movies. The last Disney movies I > saw, _Aladdin_ and _Beauty and the Beast_ I found particularly irksome as the > characters of Beauty and Jasmine seemed rather out of place for the setting. My wife's critique of Aladdin was the fact that all of the "good" characters were very light-skinned (well, except the genie), and the villain was the only one who was ruddy. (BTW, look for the Swedish immigrant near the beginning of the film. He's the one in the crowd with the line "Another suitor for the princess." At least his accent _sounds_ Swedish, to me.) Wow! Pretty verbos for me, --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:25:22 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Eric - I was watching the movie "Stakeout" the other night, and in one scene there is a glimpse of a poster of Seattle that says: "Seattle - the Emerald City". Have you ever seen one of these? Is "The Emerald City" a well-known nickname for Seattle? Just wondering. Gili ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:05:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Eggs in Oz > > If Billina was the first hen in Oz, how did the Gnomes know to be > afraid of hen's eggs? The Nomes/Gnomes don't live in Oz. And as we saw in "Ozma of Oz," there ARE chickens in Ev, which is near the Nome Kingdom. Besides, chickens aren't the only creatures that lay eggs. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 > > Aaron: > Someone in the Oz Story Circle - I think Kim Doyle, but I could be > misremembering - wrote a short story on "How Ozma Became a Brunette", two or > three years ago. I don't think it's ever been published, though. I believe Marin Xiques wrote something similar once. (Rinny? Are you reading this?) > The Digests have been a little thin lately... THIS one sure wasn't! > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy DIgest > > Also, of course, we must ask ourselves if we want an Oz game based on > combat. While this is the most popular (and exciting) format, and one > in which I partake ruthlessly, IMHO an Ozzy game should be a cooperative > one, wherein palyers combine their skills to achieve a goal, similar to > _The Lost Vikings_ for the SNES. Note that in this game, the players can > and do kill enemies, just not each other. The beauty of GURPS is that it can be any sort of game you want it to be. Sure, there are combat rules, since fighting often does come up in many games (and there are even advanced combat rules for players that want that), but that doesn't mean you HAVE to fight! A good GM can steer the game away from fighting and punish those players/characters who insist on hitting first and asking questions later. GURPS is flexible enough that it can be any kind of game you want it to be -- or even several at once! > Bear: > The verbal equivalent is junk e-mail. This is a disturbing trend wherein > people/companies collect lists of e-mail addresses and then advertise to > them. They also send chain e-mail and "pyramid schemes". I strongly advise > to flame these people unmercifully. Or just do what I do, which is delete the unwanted mail, ignore those kinds of posts, and merrily go on with your life. (If they persist, report them to their postmaster.) > From: Gordon Birrell > Subject: More on Star Wars, etc. > > Looking at the beautiful new edition of Tik-Tok from Books of Wonder > (congratulations, Peter!) I got to thinking: is there any evidence that > Neill had Teddy Roosevelt in mind when he drew Tik-Tok? Hmm, Neill first illustrated Tik-Tok in 1907, TR was still President at that time... Could be! But I don't think Neill went in for political charicatures much, either... No real evidence one way or the other, I guess. > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-07-96 > > I believer, horrifically enough, that the rights to all but the first book > are owned by (gulp!) Disney. This WAS the case at one point, but since then, all of Baum's books have entered the public domain, and anyone, not just Disney, could make an Oz film if they wanted to. Trouble is, Disney took such a bath on "Return to Oz" (despite it's success overseas and the fact that it eventually made money, the panning and poor box office in North America classifies it as a failure in their eyes), they wouldn't want to make another movie anyway. > Would that film makers Just Get It that one can make an Oz > film *without Dorothy*? That is, "Land of Oz" on its own as written would > make a great film! Then you obviously haven't seen the 1969 film "The Marvelous Land of Oz"... > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 > > Ha! Looked up when the Mary Frances books were published. They were almost > concurrent with the Oz series! The Mary Frances Sewing Book is dated 1913, > the same copyright date as Patchwork Girl. RPT could have read them as a > kid. Not saying she DID, but she could have. In 1913, Thompson was twenty-two. Hardly a kid... > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-96 > > Eric--of course you read the students Oz reprints, but aren't any of them > from IWOC? If IWOC were to reissue "The Land of Oz" (my usual introduction to Oz for my classes)... > From: BARRY ESHKOL ADELMAN > Subject: The Rotting Pumpkins of Oz > > Barry "Yes, we know all about that stuff, you're making the digest a lot > longer" Adelman It doesn't to be just you today, Barry... (Whoops, now I'm adding to the length of tomorrow's Digest. Sorry...) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest III > [re: Rug as a cactus] > Eric's idea (just have him turned back into a cactus at the end) is an > easy solution, as it completes the circle. Er, I don't exactly have him turned BACK into a cactus. Remember, it is "Doctor Who in Oz," which means there's time travel involved and -- er -- if I say any more that Elegant Elephant in the next room will probably stomp on my keyboard... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > BTW, Naroldi the Mind-Reader predicts that Disney's Quasimoto *WILL* marry > Esmerelda!!! Considering the surprising (for Disney) ending of "Pocahontas," it wouldn't surprise me if Nalrodi is wrong in this instance. Me, I'll just be prepared for whatever Disney throws at me... And finally, I seem to have deleted the note, but to whoever it was who said that the head of the Gump was the only part still alive: How do we know that the sofa, palm fronds, clothesline, and broom aren't still alive and skulking around the plalace somewhere? (There was a story in "Oziana" a few years ago that had the living clothesline as a major part of the plot, actually.) --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:30:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Mike: While Billina may have been the first hen in Oz, there is ample evidence of chickens in fairy lands outside Oz. Remember, Billina was placed in the palace chicken coop, so there must be many chickens in Ev, which is the country nearest to the Dominions of the Nome King. Aaron: A Tangle tree is a most un-Ozlike tree that lures people/animals into its locale and then strangles/eats them. As David mentioned, it seems that disembodied parts can live for a while after being separated. The magic may make the head the seat of consiousness. However, I disagree about it being possible to separate magical beings and in effect create two Scarecrows. IMHO, once a being like the Scarecrow is created, he has a spirit/soul/consciousness that cannot be split in two. Even if his body were evenly divided, the spirit would pick one half and the other would become lifeless. Badger: Right on! I believe that _Land_, _Ozma_ and even _DotWiz_ would make good films, due to the nature of the storylines. I don't know if it will ever happen, but the potential is there. Badger and Steve: The episode with the Sawhorse teaches us two things: 1) That it is necessary for a representation of certain body parts for the magic to give the creature the ability to see, hear etc. and once something is animated, a logical add-on would automatically come to life. I would suspect that if the Scarecrow was given a steel arm, it may not work. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:44:15 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Melody: Hmmm. Perhaps RPT hated sewing and some well-meaning aunt forced the Mary Frances books on her as a kid. "See, Ruthie, sewing can be *fun* and *exciting*." Robin: All of our best thoughts go with you (even though you won't receive them until after the fact). To all you lucky people going to Ozmapolitan: Bon voyage! Tell us all about it afterwards. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:06:21 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Quite a substantial Digest today, with loads of stuff to talk about. Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky wrote: <> Because the (G)Nomes aren't IN Oz! Their kingdom is underneath the Land of EV, which (as seen in OZMA) had plenty of chickens in residence. Gordon Birrell wrote: <> Which all goes to show how tenuous the parallels are, since earlier postings had shown how tenuous some of the parallels are. (Is Luke or Leia the Dorothy figure? Luke might seem closer since he lives with his farmer aunt and uncle, but it ultimately turns out that (since she's his sister), they're also *her* aunt and uncle.) Prior postings have identified R2-D2 with the Scarecrow and Han with, if anyone, the Cowardly Lion--though I suppose, if he only *whistles* the song, it could equally well be the "If I Only Had the Nerve" verse. <> Nelson Bridwell used to consider him a dead ringer for Jerry Colonna (a comedian with whom I'm largely unfamiliar), but I've already argued for Roosevelt's influence on at least one other aspect of OZMA and TIK-TOK...the simplified spelling of "Nome." (Phonetic spelling was dear to the heart of TR, who was President when OZMA was published.) Aaron Adelman wrote: <> Why not? I never knew chickens had any scruples about that sort of thing (and, as noted, her own chicks evidently performed some matings that would have been incestuous for humans). Badger wrote: <> They *were* owned by Disney before the copyrights expired. Copyrights currently last a maximum of 75 years (there's a drive to raise the limit to 90 years, but it wouldn't affect anything already in public domain), so even GLINDA went into public domain last year (Disney never owned the books beyond Baum's 13, nor did it ever own WIZARD). (Current books retained by the original author are protected for 50 years after the author's death, but that applies only if they were published after 1978...and even if it hadn't, it would only have thrown *all* of Baum's books into public domain back in 1969!) Eric Gjovaag wrote: <> Believe it or not, it used to have some very sophisticated parody when it first got started, as a regular comic book from the legendary EC line. As a result, it survived when the Wertham scandals and the Comics Code more or less killed the rest of the line, since editor Harvey Kurtzman successfully turned it into the magazine it is now. Unfortunately, Kurtzman soon quarrelled with the publisher, and ended up leaving the title, which was put in charge of Al Feldstein, newly-displaced editor of the EC horror line ("Tales From the Crypt," et al). Feldstein was superb at horror stories but only so-so as a parodist, and MAD lost its edge as--a fatal flaw for a parody series--it began to lapse into formula and lose its audience to more daring magazines like NATIONAL LAMPOON. (In the '60's the readership was said to peak at 18; now it probably is closer to 12 or even 10.) OzBucket wrote: <> That's a bit too strong a word: he obviously *could* write...just not very well, especially compared to Baum and Thompson. And I rather liked LUCKY BUCKY and did like RUNAWAY, though how much Shanower rewrote it I don't know... Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <<(One movie that infuriated me was _Muriel's Wedding_ in which the homely Muriel marries not the homely guy who loves her but the pea-brained hunk that literally hates the sight of her! -- Divorce of course soon results. So much for having a life as good as an ABBA song.)>> I never saw that movie, but how many people *do* have lives as good as an ABBA song? (Including ABBA itself; if memory serves, both the couples that composed the group ended up getting divorced.) A lot of non-Ozzy stuff this time, but a final note (still not technically Oz-related but at least Baum-related). My experiments in publication of my own demonstrate how much easier it is to reproduce old pictures when black-and-white copies, as well as color ones, exist. But, seeing that the color plates of the Oz books (and even non-Oz books like SKY ISLAND) weren't impossible to reproduce, nor were Denslow's in WIZARD (notoriously out of print for almost half a century), wouldn't people pay something to get the original illustrations? (Especially since, if memory serves, it wasn't one of Baum's more inspired books...) Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:51:52 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-12-96 Mike "Shaggy Man" said Weren't the Gnomes from (or rather under) Ev, not Oz? Robin: All the best on Monday. (:-)) Eric: re-illustrators - Melody Grandy, for sure!! Just received her first book of "The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz" today, and her illustrations are superb!!. Congratulations to Melody, and to Chris & Co. of Buckethead Enterprises!!! (also, delivery was quick. - ten days from mailing the check to having the book in my hands.) Can't wait to read it. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:54:23 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest Thanks to all of you who asked me to hold a copy of Lurline for you. I now see that the accent mark problem was not my fault. Do they not allow accent marks online? How odd. Anyway, I am in possession of ten hand-made copies with cardboard covers, dustjackets, and the 5 color plates. They are printed (not xeroxed) on cream-colored paper and the plates are potentially frameable. If the people who asked for one need my snail-mail address to send me a check ($10.00), it is 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM 87002. Patrick M. -I know that it is not on your list of stuff you're looking for, but I would like to put one on consignment in the Winkie auction, so that the non-online folk can have access to one, too. By the by, we are looking forward to the Con, but will not be able to take the meals. Just the access rate and a sales table. Thanks! On the subject of ugly=bad, pretty=evil, this has been the subject of an Oz club calendar already, and will soon be again. I think the lesson to be learned was just uttered by Rinny= you can't trust anyone either ugly or pretty. Actually, I think my own publications have been pretty open-minded in this matter, with only a few exceptions like Zelda and the Quadling Witch. And Melody, you of all people... I thought Zim and Dinny were quite handsome fellows, and they were good. But then again, the mother dragon was rather cute, too. Speaking of stuff to sell (we were, weren't we?), I have an Oz Wonderland War trilogy to unload for around $30.00, as well as three back-issues of that notoriously hideous OZ comic #s 0, 11 and 14 ($30.00 set) that I REALLY want to be rid of. If anyone wants either of these abominations, let me know. Otherwise, Patrick M. will have another item for the auction. Rich- No, Disney sold the rights to the Oz books to Hanna-Barbera after the flop of its own movie. If they have since re-sold the rights, I am not aware of it. This is sad. I really think that someone could make some very fine films of these stories with today's special effects. But if HB still owns the rights, we may have to settle for Flintstone-esque Oz cartoons. That might be as bad as Willard Carroll's Oz Babies. This, too, is sad, as Willard is a very nice chap, and he does have a working knowledge of Baum. K. Kline (author of Kaliko in Oz) has written a book called The Wogglebug of Oz, which is now being illustrated by Mark Woody. I am aware of another book about the insectine proff., but do not have it. It was listed in an Oziana in the 70's as having been written, I recall not by who. I have to agree that some illustrators are better than others. After my discussion on Neill yesterday, I'm sure no one expects I would count Neill as a good illustrator (actually, he was not an illustrator at all. He was an ARTIST who did lovely and wonderful art; but not an illustrator, who would depict what is in the text). I was not crazy about the pictures in Masquerade either. But they DID reflect what was in the story, so are true illustrations -even if you don't care for them artistically (though they are artistically better than those of Dirk -and of lots of other Oz illustrators). I was especially upset about Queen Ann. That book was originally submitted to me with some samples of illustrations that were at least a hundred thousand times better! What happened? I suspect a cheaper illustrator was already under contract? The story is still BoW's finest hour. It is the only BoW book I can recommend in good conscience (with the possible exception of Patchwork Bride, though it had a very unOzzy ending). The works of Donald Abbott grow ever more depressing and dark with each new book, though I do like his Denslowy look. Let's find him a happier story to illustrate! But, of course, none can compare in quality to the great and powerful Melody Grandy. I had to say that, as she is online and will see this. ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 14, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:33:11 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: German Wizard Herm Beiber - Turns out, upon inspection, not only do I have the German edition of the Wizard that you wrote about a couple of digest ago - it is one of my favourite editions of the book. For some reason I had never noticed the four cyclones, but you're right, they are there. What I especially like about the illustrations is how brilliant the elementary colors are. I made color photocopies of two of the illustrations in the book and took them to the Winkie convention with me, but I don't remember who I showed them to except for Fred Meyer... One was the illustration of Dorothy's first meeting with the Scarecrow, where the Scarecrow is the brightest, purest blue on a field of dazzling yellow; the other was the illustration of the poppy field, which is so green and red that it makes your eyes whorl. In other words, if any of you collectors find yourself in a German speaking country, look for this book! Just to reiterate, this is the 1994 edition published by J.F. Schreiber, ISBN 3-215-11441-0. The publisher's address: Postfach 285, 73703 Esslingen, Germany. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 09:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Hens and Comics ozbucket: > Speaking of stuff to sell (we were, weren't we?), I have an Oz Wonderland War > trilogy to unload for around $30.00, [...] > If anyone wants either of these abominations, let me know. > Otherwise, Patrick M. will have another item for the auction. > Well, before Rich jumps to E. Nelson Bridwell's defense, let me just say that O-WW was NOT an abomination, but a very well-crafted story by people who know, love, and revere Oz (and Alice). I loved it (wish I had kept it, though, seeing how much it goes for now....) To all and sundry: Thanks for correcting my impression about hens in Oz. I had erroneously assumed "Oz" was being used (as it sometimes is) to refer to whole continent of Imagination/Baumgaea. (cf. USA/America) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, covered in hen-feathers... ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:16:48 -0400 From: homer did anyone notice Dorothy wearing shorts in Giant Garden? i find it hard to believe that the fashions would progress the same in Oz as in the real world. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:03:09 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-13-96 Friday the 13th came on a Thursday this month! Gili: I'm sure Eric will tell you, but yes, "The Emerald City" is as standard a nickname for Seattle as "The Big Apple" for New York. Eric: I doubt that Neill had any conscious intention of parodying TR when he drew Tik-Tok. For one thing, Tik-Tok has more of a handlebar moustache, while TR's was more of a toothbrush type. And TR had rather small eyes (minified by his glasses, since he was myopic), whereas TT had huge ones. By you, 22 may hardly be a kid. By me, 22 is a kid. (But I'll agree that in the context of reading the Mary Frances Sewing Book, 22 probably shouldn't count as a kid...) Seems hardly likely the IWOC would reissue LAND, since there are several editions already available from other sources. (I know you weren't serious!) Tyler: DOTWIZ would make a good movie if they shucked just about everything that happened after Dorothy & Co. get to Oz, and just had a big party before sending everybody but the Wizard home. Otherwise it would have the same flaw as the book - but since movies just about always have to cut a book down anyhow, that's probably not a problem. For that matter, I think RINKITINK would make a great movie if they took out the contrived Oz-related ending and let Inga and Rinkitink rescue Inga's parents themselves. (Does anybody know how Baum originally ended KING RINKITINK?) Rich: There's a much stronger resemblance between Tik-Tok and Jerry Colonna than between TT and TR - Colonna had the big eyes and handlebar moustache, at least. But since I can remember Colonna as a not-terribly-old man from films in the '40s, I doubt he was the inspiration for Tik-Tok. More likely the other way around, if there was any connection at all. The original MAD comic was excellent, at least after the first couple of issues, which couldn't seem to decide if it was humor or horror. My brother had the first five years or so for a long time, but eventually sold them for a pretty good price when he needed the money. But when it went to the magazine format it lost a lot - probably, as you say, because of Kurtzman's replacement by Feldstein (although the short-lived companion to MAD, PANIC, was edited by Feldstein and was pretty good - however, he was using the same artists as MAD, which may have been responsible). Chris: It depends on your provider, but AOL doesn't allow sending or receiving accent marks, and I don't think any of the other major commercial services (Compuserve, Prodigy, GEnie, Delphi) allow it either; they're dedicated to making their service available to the most basic computers, and a lot of the early ones only recognized 7-bit ASCII codes. To get the accent marks you have to go to 8-bit ASCII. The check will be in the mail today for "Lurline". I thought the Oz-Wonderland war was fun, and far from an abomination. Not real Oz, of course, but closer to it than, say, the MGM movie. While Neill's drawings frequently differed from the text in detail, they weren't so far off that I'd agree with you that he wasn't an illustrator. He didn't read the text very carefully, but he usually depicts something pretty close to what the text describes - typically the same action, but with some differences in how they're dressed or what their shape is or that sort of thing. I suspect this was less because he was either illiterate or a poor illustrator than because he had a very large number of illustrations to produce and a relatively limited time to do it in. If QUEEN ANN is the only BoW Oz book you can recommend in good conscience, does this mean you haven't read GLASS CAT, or that you find something seriously wrong with it? If the latter, what? (I agree that QUEEN ANN is the Ozziest story they've published, GLASS CAT aside since I have an obvious bias there, though I think GIANT GARDEN is as good a story and far better illustrated. But GG, like just about all of Shanower's work I've read, is much darker than any of the canonical works.) Well, off to Ozmopolitan tomorrow - I'll be back in touch Sunday night or Monday morning. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 10:53:29 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Been away for a while, but here is some responces. . . The Crooked Magician is currently on a professional tour of Oz giving seminars on "Animated Life" An exerpt: "When bringing an inanimate object to life with the aid of magical substances, it is important to distribute the powder, potion, whatever, evenly, as the substance is the catalyst for imbibing the object with a soul, "chi," lifeforce, or whatever term you wish to use. This was an important consideration when Oz heroes created the Gump. "Further study is needed in whether this Life is created or somehow transferred from some other point. As we believe now, Life, like energy and matter, cannot be created or destroyed, merely transferred or transformed. See the proposed "lineage" of the Scarecrow. "The underlining rule to remember is what is called the "Pipt theory" or in other words, "function follows form." Thus, any form allowing the functions of speech, movement, or even levels of ability of wisdom, is dependent upon the incorporated form. "Along with this, the lifeforce will stay in concentrated form in the body as a whole, and even allowing for breif periods of seperation. If any part remains away from the main body of concentration, however, any given object may revert to its original inanimatacy. Likewise, any function-allowing form attatched to the main body of concentrated life will take on appropriate attributes. . ." Audience: "Zzzzzzzzzz. . . ." Bert: "Ernie, I'm so glad we're in Oz currently, this is fascinating!" Taking notes, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:30:32 -0400 From: Nathan Faut Subject: Has anyone seen this Oz reference before? Folks, While tooling around on the Internet, I tripped across the following URL: http://www.asiaonline.net/lilywong/book9.htm The artist lives and works in Hong Kong. Generally he deals with his heroine, Lily Wong, but once in a while branches out. The URL takes you to his retelling of the Wizard of Oz, Hong Kong style. Try the sample panels -- funny stuff! I plan to order that book, but thought I would pass around the URL for those who also follow Asian politics. Nathan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 15:37:46 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest Hi there, all you Oz fans and digesters! This is Rinny (you know the weirdo who married Chris Dulabone!). Someone wrote me a message about a story I wote about how Ozma became a brunette. Acoording to it, Ozma had brown hair before she was transformed but, when Mombi, her hair became gold. This was because Mombi did not have any copper dust to put in the antidote and substituted gold dust. Later on, someone else (I think I said it was Glinda) used copper dust to change Ozma's hair back to brown. Does this sound like utter nonsense to you? I really think that when I wrote that story I made the mistake of going by Neill's illos instead of what was in the text. His artwork is beautiful, but Chris and I both agree that he's a bad illustrator. Maybe if he was literate, he'd do betterx? Incidentally, I've created a separate screen name for myself: OzPatch. I named it in honor of the Patchwork Girl. I think she's one of the coolest people you could hope to run across, especially on a hot summer day like we're experiencing in Belen! And very pretty, I might add. (Of course, if you happen to like gray Nomes, you might not think the Patchwork Girl is quite so pretty.) We have finally sent (via snail mail) a copy of A MYSTICAL MAGICAL SUPER ADVENTURE IN OZ to Melody,so it is guaranteed to have superior illustrations. The book is over 80, 000 words, though, so don't expect her to read it over night... We are still looking for illustrations for the next calendar. So far, only Dave has agreed to do any. Also, we expect delivery of TIN CASTLE any day now. Anyone wanting to know the definitive answers to all of those mosquito questions can send $12.00 to us at 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM 87002. The book will be sent asap when it arrives. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 17:33:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy DIgest This is a post replying to the last half of 6-12 and all of 6-13 Eric: Some of Xanth's trees had earlier versions in Oz, such as the Indus Tree. I still believe that for the most part, a private question can be aired publicly and the answer (also given publicly) can provide benfits to many people. One may as well believe that if a student has a question for the teacher, he sould never ask it in class. OTOH, this can go to extremes. I have been in classes with "professional students". Some people on the digest may know the type. They show up in a suit and briefcase, they are always the first ones in and last ones out, they sit front-row center, they always stay after to talk to the prof about something, and they monopolize nearly all class time with inane questions. Chris D: As for the BOW books, i have generally liked them all, except for the Abbott books. _Masquerade_ was not one of the best, but I enjoyed _Magic Dishpan_, _Giant Garden_ and of course, _Queen Ann_ and _Glass Cat_, along with _Christmas_. On the spirits: Whatever you want to call it, it seems clear that characters such as Jack and Scraps have self-awareness and consciousness. Cogito Ergo Sum. I think, therefore I am. I have no idea where it came from. It is doubtful that the powder of life has the power to create a soul, but those characters are definitely alive in that they can think and feel (emotionally, anyway). As for Tik-Tok, I do not know if he is alive in the sense that he has self-awareness, or consciousness. Also, it seems that the spirit "knows" which body parts to animate and which ones to leave. When Jack's head was lost in _Land_ and _Jack Pumpkinhead_, it stayed alive because Jack "knew" that this head was still the one being used. When Jack carves himself a new head, the spirit leaves the old one and enters the new one. Eric: It is true that GURPS can be molded to anything that people want, so that a good Gamemaster can minimize combat and violence. My main point was that PBM games work best in grand-scale combat format, as opposed to FRPG's. On Chickens: Due to the vast number of responses, I beleive that we have pretty much established that there are chickens and other birds in and around Ev, so that the Nomes would have plenty of opportunity to come into contact with them. David: You mentioned that the Nomes must range farther out, since they nabbed Shaggy's brother in a Colorado mine. ANother possiblity is that he accidentally struck a conduit to the Oz Universe/Gravity Well and actually entered the Nome King's dominions. OzBucket: Chris D's offer of $30.00 for the set is a good one. I suggest someone snap it up quick! By the way, Chris, your mention of Hanna-Barbera and a Flintsone-like cartoon gave me an image of Dortothy sliding down Kabumpo's trunk, into the Red Wagon, and off to the Emerald City. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:11:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Magic-Dependents of Oz ***ENTER THEORETICAL/MOPPET MODE*** 1) Michael, I am certain that magically created artificial beings generally have human-level minds/souls, as they do have language capabilities, though where that mind comes from, I don't know. (Barry and I have not discussed such a topic in relation to Magic Machine theory.) It certainly wouldn't be an emergent property of the body, since such magic-dependent beings do not have brains in the biological sense of the term, at least stored directly in their bodies. Probably their brains are extremely complex programs running in the Magic Machine. As for where such brain-programs come from, I hypothesize that they are based on brains of already-existing people (dead or alive), or perhaps even previously stored information on people who are, er, uh, not quite dead or alive. I base this on the origin of the Scarecrow; when Chang Wang Woe was transformed into a crocus, all the information needed to restore him to his original form was stored in the Magic Machine, including all the information contained in his brain. When the Scarecrow became imbued with his spirit, the Magic Machine translated the pattern for his brain into a runable program and activated it. Though who the other magic-dependents might have been in a previous life, I don't know. Scraps might have been Chang Wang Woe's wife Tsing Tsing, but as for Jack= Pumpkinhead, the Sawhorse, the Glass Cat, and other such artificial beings, I have no clue as to whom they might have been. ***EXIT THEORETICAL/MOPPET MODE 2) Eric, I always assumed that the disembodied parts of the Gump/Thing remained alive. What I keep wondering is what happened to the palm fronds which served as wings (were they grafted back onto the tree, were they rooted somewhere, did they keep green even without water, etc.). 3) Tyler, it is most certainly possible in Oz to split a soul/spirit/consciousness. Note that the disembodied head of Nick Chopper and the Tin Woodman both have valid claims to having Nick Chopper's consciousness. 4) Chris, accent marks are permissible online. But as far as I can tell, to generate anything but ASCII characters on anything except a Macintosh is generally impossible without special software. 5) Can anyone tell me please which issue (and if possible, on which pages) in the Baum Bugle A Murder of Oz was originally published? So far the Buckethead edition, that volume of The Best of the Baum Bugle it's in, and Spectral Snow were not available in any responding library. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:47:48 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-08-96 Rich Morrissey: >one question: since most of your reissued books contain the original >illustrations, including color plates (even non-Oz books by Baum like >SKY ISLAND), why couldn't your new edition of DOT AND TOT IN MERRYLAND >include the original Denslow illustrations? And, if Denslow's weren't >good enough, why give the job to Donald Abbott (who mostly imitates >Denslow, anyway), rather than, say, Eric Shanower? It wasn't that the Denslow art wasn't good enough, but that there was no way to economically reproduce the book's illustrations. Abbott was chosen in homage to Denslow. We would gladly publish just about anything Eric Shanower does (having worked with him on two books - "The Giant Garden of Oz" and "The Runaway in Oz" - I can let all his admirers out there no that he is not only abundantly talented but a consumate professional), but he had no interest in re-illustrating "Dot and Tot". Badger: >Does Books of Wonder sell foreign language versions of the book(s); >specifically, Portugeuse? I have a Snail Mail correspondant in Brazil. >I was running about in NYC on errands a few months ago and "found" Books of >Wonder, but I was both in a rush (and it was pouring rain) so I did not have >time to visit. (I forget by which subway entrance it is). No, sorry, but we only publish in English. And we are currently at the 18th Street Subway stop on the 7th Avenue IRT line (1,2 or 3 lines). The store is currently at 132 7th Avenue on the corner of 18th Street, but as of the beginning of July we're moving to a larger space at 16 West 18th Street, between 6th Avenue and 5th Avenue. Stop by and visit next time you're in New York! - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:27:39 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Chris: IN case you did not get my E-mail. Your enormous E-mail finally came lumbering into compuserve two days after you sent it. Your beginning message reads fine, but the manuscript is Gibberish! Yes, better use Snail Mail. Robin Olderman: My Mary Frances Sewing Book has all tissue-paper patterns and membership club form intact. What kind of price would THAT command? (I know it's not an Oz book, everybody, but it's one Thompson could have read as a girl, then parodied in "Gnome King.") Aaron: Did not mean "ugly" in a bad way, but Baum does describe the GWON with lots of wrinkles--not exactly what the media would consider super-model material, even though it makes no difference how many wrinkles our grandmas have. Barry: Thanks for the rant! :-) Norman Rockwell would agree with us. In Norman Rockwell's painting instruction book, he calls the so-called unbreakable rule that young women should always be portrayed as pretty or beautiful "the curse of American illustration." Per your rant, it definitely is the curse of the entire media as well. Well, if any rule deserved to be broken, this one does. (Smash, crash, tinkle, tinkle.) By the way, it is interesting that two films that have become American classics starred females who were not conventionally beautiful--Star Wars and The Wizard of Oz. Eric: Your statement that Thompson was not the domestic type is not surprising. The Quilty episode reads like it was written by someone who hated sewing...Of course, there is the more pleasant sewing kingdom of -- was it Kimbaloo that exported buttons? Anyways, the kingdom in Lost King of Oz is much jollier than Patch. And Mrs. Sew and Sew a much pleasanter character than Queen Crosspatch of Patch. Ah, yes, in "Mary Frances," the character Scissors Shears sings, "Crosspatch, crosspatch...," which Thompson later named her Quilty Queen. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 00:14:16 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 Chris: Er, Chris--Melody Grandy has made a Great and Powerful Boo-Boo on BBB! Inside margins should be 5/8" instead of 1/2". Will fix. Sorry! By the way, folks, I can recommend this excellent Oz story by Christopher Buckley without the slightest hesitation! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:09:50 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: will I make it on time? One last item I need to mention. Thorns and Private Files in Oz (a new book by Melody Grandy and I which is built around some drawings by the late Marcus Mebes) is almost together. It deals with (obviously) Private Files and the Rose Princess. Melody has one last drawing that she is adding herself, and that is all the book is waiting for. I even have a nice lady who admired Marcus' work and is going to help us with the $$$. -Melody, our backer has the $$$ and wants to put it up. She asked that you go ahead and finish that drawing before getting to the rest of her deal with you. I do not yet know the price on this book, but it is 120 pages counting that last drawing. and will have a very lovely color cover. Thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 01:16:33 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-13-96 Chris: "The Great and Powerful Melody?????" I am just a humbug, Chris ol' boy! Here's a quote from an angel in Revelation: "Be careful! Don't do that. Worship God." Ruth was 22 in 1913? Never was good at keeping track of ages and dates. But she definitely could've seen the Mary Frances books when they first came out. Melody ====================================================================== Date: Friday 14-Jun-96 00:50:33 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FASHIONS IN OZ: Homer wrote: >did anyone notice Dorothy wearing shorts in Giant Garden? i find it hard to >believe that the fashions would progress the same in Oz as in the real world. Shanower always dresses Dorothy, Betsy, and Trot in modern clothing (see _Wicked Witch of Oz_). This is not unusal, as even Neill tended to make the girls look stylish. (Is it in _Giant Horse_ that Dorothy is dressed like a flapper?) TIK-TOK -- TEDDY ROOSEVELT RESEMBLANCE: David H. wrote: >For one thing, Tik-Tok has more of a handlebar moustache, while TR's >was more of a toothbrush type... Good point. IMHO, if there's anyone Tik-Tok resembles it's Hercule Poirot! :) ACCENTS: There are two work-arounds to the Internet's inability to transfer accents... One is to use '/'s (e.g. "Lurline/ and the White Ravens") which is standard Internet convention for accents...The other that I've seen--especially on the Enya newsgroup where there's a significant amount of accented Gaelic written-- is to use two lines and a comma for the accent, like so: , Lurline and the White Ravens "I TICK, THEREFORE I AM???": Tyler wrote: >As for Tik-Tok, I do not know if he is alive in the sense that he has >self-awareness, or consciousness. This is similar to the question posed in _2001 A Space Odessey_ of whether HAL is really conscious and self-aware, or just is programmed to do a masterful imitation. If the latter applies to Tik-Tok, you've got to give Smith & Tinker credit! :) Tik-Tok: My mind is going...there's no question...I'm afraid Dorothy... Good afternoon, Ozians...I am a Tik-Tok machine man...I became operational at the tik-tok plant, Smith & Tinker's, Inc., Land of Ev...*Daisy, Daisy...* Scarecrow: Quick, somebody wind his thinking! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 15, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Tik-Tok's "Computo, ergo sum" {FOR inclusion:} Our central mailer: > This is similar to the question posed in _2001 A Space Odessey_ of whether > HAL is really conscious and self-aware, or just is programmed to do a > masterful imitation. If the latter applies to Tik-Tok, you've got to > give Smith & Tinker credit! :) But could Tik-Tok pass the Turing test? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:01:00 -0400 From: homer A while ago, I received the first four graphic novels by Eric Shanower, which I had ordered out of BoW. They were all autographed by Shanower inside on the title page. (Real autographs, too-you could tell) When I ordered them it didn't say that they were going to be autographed. Does he always autograph them or was I just lucky? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 12:29:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Mike T: Well, your mistake was not TOO erroneous. People do in fact sometime use "Oz" to refer to the whole continent/world/gravity_well/Universe. In _Lucky Bucky_, Neill had Davy Jones tell Bucky that they were in the Land of Oz, when they were really hundreds of miles out in the Nonestic. When Bucky finally got to that area inside the desert, he said he was at last in the "REAL" Oz. Homer: Fashion has always been an issue in the Oz books. In David Hulan's _Glass Cat_, Trot was still wearing clothes from the early 20th century. Neill drew Dorothy as keeping up with the times in the FF, but I would imagine that shorts are a comfortable and convenient form of dress in a warm climate, so it is likely that Oz would take notice of shorts in the Great Outside World and make some. Also, maybe Jenny Jump's turn-style gave them to her. David: True, to make DOTWIZ a movie, shucking all the after-Oz stuff would make it flow better. Also, they could play up the excitement of escaping from the Invisible Bears and the Gargoyles and make itinto a decent 90-minute movie, non-musical. As far as I know, nobody has ever seen the original ending. I have always assumed that Inga forced Kaliko to release his parents, probably by threatening to destroy the entire Nome Kingdom with the pearls. An interesting issue is the fate of King Gos and Queen Cor. Was the storm part of the original manuscript, or did Baum put that in for Dorothy's sake and originally planned for them to escape? David again: In the Oz WOnderland War comic, they even make a reference to the movie. Once in Oz, one of the Zoo Crew (Rubberduck, maybe?) says that the landscape doesn't look likeany Metro-Goldwyn-Mare movie he's ever seen and someone else (probably Captain Carrot) commented that "the book is always different from the movie", implying that the book described the "real" Oz. I tend to agree with our Captain. Rinny: Welcome aboard! I'll send the $$$ right away for _Tin Castle_. For the record, I found Neill to be a very good illustrator early on, although his work did slide toward the end of his career. His drawings, more than any other, defined the look of Oz for all time. I agree with you that Scraps probably has the most personality of any Oz character. She is absolutely wild! Oddly enough, gray IS my favorite color. Aaron: That was a good point about Nick. Of course, he was originally human, and his consciousness moved into his new tin body, but apparantly some of it remained in his head. WHich one is the real Nick? I'll have to go with you and say both. Dave: Smith and Tinker did a great job of building Tik-Tok in the pre-electronic era. Of course, they may have had some magic to help them out, but he's as well-built as HAL. Tik-Tok: What are you doing, Dorothy? Dorothy: Uh, I'm just checking some components... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:25:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Yesterday's and Today's Growls Robin - Best wishes on your Monday "procedure." Eric >And ten dollars is a lot to a kid just discovering Oz books and whose week's allowance just covers the cost of a NEW book. Well Eric, when I was a "kid" I went out and earned money delivering papers, mowing lawns and raking leaves, etc. I used that money to buy books (I still have them too.). I couldn't have bought much with my allowance either. Dave - What is all this ranting about looks? You are just going to have to accept the modern reality. Appearance is everything - Character is nothing! Think not? Look at the prime example - I think his name is Bill. :( Robin - RPT's beeswax! I always wondered where that expression, "Mind your own beeswax" came from? Must have been from sewing bees. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:39:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Special Alert I assume most of you know about the new viruses? Briefly, don't download anything with "Good Times" in the title. It comes out of AOL and is lethal. If you download it it can destroy your hard drive and possibly permanently damage your processor. The only defense is not reading the file. Delete it immediately. The other virus is a new Trojan Horse named PKZIP300.ZIP If you download it will also wipe your hard disk clean. If you need more details, let me know. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:53:48 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-96 >did anyone notice Dorothy wearing shorts in Giant Garden? i find it >hard to believe that the fashions would progress the same in Oz as in the real world. I am currently reading WONDER CITY in which one of Jenny Jump's ploys is to give all of the EC "haute" fashions via her magic turnstile. (I haven't finished the book yet, so I don't know what ultimatley happens. And don't TELL me!) Some of the fashions are just as outrageous as something today! I still think Neill is a good Ozzy illustrator, even with some of his obvious errors. > your mention of Hanna-Barbera and a Flintsone-like >cartoon gave me an image of Dortothy sliding down Kabumpo's trunk, >into the Red Wagon, and off to the Emerald City. "The Wizard, Meet the Wizard, He's an honorary courterie Of the Emerald City, It's a place right out of fantasy! Someday, Maybe the Nomes will win the fight But Ozma Will make everything alright. When you're With Oz fairies You'll have an Oz-time, an Ozzy Oz-time, You'll have an Oz-some time!" --or-- "Meet our Dorothy. . . Her friend Scarecrow. . . Toto, her dog. . . Friend Tin Woodman. . ." "Help! Wizard! Get me off this crazy thing!" WONDER CITY-- As I said, I'm reading WC, and so far, all I really want to say is "Oy Vey!" I'll have to give you some MOPPeTs about it later. . . BTW, I actually like Jenny Jump as a villainess. Is she Public Domain? Later, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 15-Jun-96 01:13:48 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE MAGIC PICTURE: Can the Magic Picture tell *where* someone is located, or will it only show the person and if the backdrop is unfamiliar the viewers of the Picture have to guess at the location? "THE MUSICAL OF OZ"???: Danny wrote: >"The Wizard, >Meet the Wizard, >He's an honorary courterie >Of the Emerald City, >It's a place right out of fantasy! With all these inspired Ozzy lyrics, I think we're going to have to get together and write an Ozzy musical!!! :) Some other song ideas I've come up with: For the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Lion: "The Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and I" (Takeoff on "The Minstral, the Jester, and I" from _Once Upon a Mattress_) For the Wizard: "I'm now real live wizard, a wonderful wizard of Oz; No more humbug or a phony, a master magician am I..." (etc.) For the Wogglebug: "I am the very model of a wise and learned arthopod..." For the Adepts: "Three fine Adepts from Oz are we; Great mistresses of sorcery; Filled to the brim with Ozzy glee-E Three fine Adepts from Oz..." (etc.) For the Prologue, in which the Ozians all introduce themselves: "Ozzy-ish Songs for Ozzy-ish folks" (Takeoff on "Jellicle Songs for Jellicle Cats" from _Cats_), the last stanza being: "There's a man over there eyeing us with surprise As much as to say, 'Now, what odd rhetoric!' Do I actually see with my own very eyes A man who thinks Oz is just an MGM flick?" More ideas to come! :) :) :) C-SPAN IN OZ (NOT!): Bear wrote: >Well Eric, when I was a "kid" I went out and earned money delivering papers, >mowing lawns and raking leaves, etc... > ... >Appearance is everything - Character is nothing! >Think not? Look at the prime example - I think his name is Bill. :( I sense another political discussion brewing...If so, could we *PLEASE* take it off the Digest and do it through private E-mail? Thanks folks! :) *** SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT *** I just have to make this important announcement. My Internet server, Delphi, phoned me today and said that they didn't receive my payment for last month's service, even though I *DID* send it. They said they cleared it up, but if they still haven't, there is *a small chance* that they will lock me out this weekend and I won't be able to send/retrieve mail. So if there is no Digest or responses from me this weekend or (Lurline forbid) longer, don't worry, I haven't died! :) I'm just trying to square things with Delphi...But hopefully, and Lurline willing, there won't be any interruption of my service at all and things will go as normal. :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 16, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 03:15:05 -0700 From: MALCOLM BARKER Subject: Oz, special message Are there 14 or 17 Oz books by L Frank Baum? It lists 14 works under Baum on the net but I heard he wrote more, somewhere. Has Disney seriously bought rights to the original works? I'm making sure to print or copy them all I can find just now on the net just in case. Let me know if you want unlimited net service for $19.95/mo. or 20 hrs/ mo for $10.. Malcolm ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:38:17 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-15-96 Hi Digest! Here's a question about assesing the value of an Oz book. I know that stamps with printing errors are more valuable than other stamps. Does the same go for books? I'm asking because I have a Reilly&Lee edition of "The Land of Oz" which accidentally has a color plate from "Grampa in Oz" bound in it. How much of a curiousity is this? And if it is a curiousity, does this make the book more valuable? (As if I were planning to sell it ... why do I even care if the book is considered valuable or not? I like it, and I'm not planning on selling it or taking it out of my collection for any other reason ... just curious, I guess.) Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 12:46:12 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: Magic Picture Dave Hardenbrook writes: > Can the Magic Picture tell *where* someone is located ... ? The Picture does not explicitly say where someone is. That is why nobody could figure out where Ozma was by looking in the picture (in LOST PRINCESS). I suppose a sufficiently clever person could simply ask to see someone from a viewpoint of several miles overhead, etc., until they figured out where that person was. Nobody in LOST PRINCESS was that clever, however. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 11:39:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-13-96 Sorry I've been so inactive of late, everybody. Lots of other stuff going on, and sadly the Digest has had to fall by the wayside for a few days. But my summer vacation starts next week, and so I hope to be on just about every day (except when I'm at Winkies, of course), and contributing as much as I can. Before I jump in to the first of three issues I'd like to respond to, some old business: Earlier this week someone mentioned the man-eating plants in "The Tin Woodman of Oz." Surprisingly enough, nobody seems to have caught this and responded with "They were in 'Patchwork Girl.'" So I'll do so now. The man-eating plants were in "Patchwork Girl." And now, a plea: One of my many major projects I'd like to take care of this summer is an update/sprucing up of my web page. So I'd like all of you with access to the WWW, if possible, to check it out soon and look out for errors, things that need to be added, ideas for additional links and items I can include, etc., etc. All serious suggestions will be carefully considered. But please, let's not clutter the Digest up with lots of talk about this, please e-mail me privately (you can do so straight from my page). I'll give the URL at the end of this post. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Melody >Though nothing was ever mentioned about Oz in the original Star Trek, > I've always equated Spock with brains, McCoy with heart, and Kirk with > courage. > > Does that make Counselor Cleavage Dorothy? :) :) Counselor Troi was in "The Next Generation," not the original series (and once they put her in a regulation uniform and covered the cleavage, the writers suddenly figured out that SHE had a brain!). The only potential Dorothy-analogs I can think of from Classic "Trek" are Nurse Chapel or Lt. Uhura, neither of which I find terribly satisfactory... > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 > > Melody and Eric: RPT most certainly did sew. I have her sewing basket, > complete with beeswax! I joined the Club the year after she died, I never knew her personally, sad to say. So I really don't know all that much about her and what she was like. > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 > > Aaron: > I think there's a difference between inappropriate illustrations (which the > Oz comics certainly have) and bad art (which Campbell & Terry, in my opinion, > produce - sorry, Eric). FWIW, Karyl's not wild about their illos, and I'm just sort of indifferent. > From: Avigail Bar-hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 > > Eric - I was watching the movie "Stakeout" the other night, and in one > scene there is a glimpse of a poster of Seattle that says: "Seattle - the > Emerald City". Have you ever seen one of these? Is "The Emerald City" a > well-known nickname for Seattle? Just wondering. Okay, everyone, history lecture: In 1980, the Seattle-King County Visitors Bureau decided that Seattle needed a clever nickname, like Chicago had "The Windy City" and Boston "Beantown." (Wouldn't all those beans also make Boston the Windy City? But I digress...) They held a contest to "Find Seattle a Middle Name." The winner, on over 400 ballots, was "The Emerald City," despite the fact that me nor none of the other Oogaboos thought about submitting it (we didn't want to inflict our brand of oddness on the entire city). The Bureau aggressively used the nickname in promotions and advertisements, and it popped up on signs at football games and the like, but more recently it's died out a bit and has just become a general part of the city. There are still many "Emerald City" businesses, though, and it's still the best known of the city's nicknames (ahead of "The Jet City," "The Queen City," and "Showertown.") Eugene, Oregon, however, was known as "The Emerald City" for decades before Seattle ever used it. BTW, despite what they say in the movie, "Stakeout" was filmed in Vancouver, which becomes REAL obvious -- at least to those of us from around here -- when they show the city skyline. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for digest > > Thanks to all of you who asked me to hold a copy of Lurline for you. I now > see that the accent mark problem was not my fault. Do they not allow accent > marks online? How odd. It depends on the system the reader is using. Some can handle such characters, but others, such as mine, can't, and any unusual character gets reproduced as something totally off-the-wall (but in ASCII) or a string of nonsense characters. > Speaking of stuff to sell (we were, weren't we?), I have an Oz Wonderland War > trilogy to unload for around $30.00, as well as three back-issues of that > notoriously hideous OZ comic #s 0, 11 and 14 ($30.00 set) that I REALLY want > to be rid of. Your prices may be pushing it there. You can probably get the $30 for "Oz-Wonderland War" from Oz fans, but according to the latest Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide, the values of "Oz-Wonderland" is currently only $2.00 per issue in Near Mint condition. For some reason they don't list the "Oz" title, but they're probably still available in back-issue bins for around cover price or less right now. > Rich- No, Disney sold the rights to the Oz books to Hanna-Barbera after the > flop of its own movie. Er, my understanding is that HB bought the TELEVISION rights (no relation to Disney's movie rights) to all of the FF Books still under copyright at the time ("Patchwork Girl" to "Merry-Go-Round"). --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 11:48:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: For the Digest -- Can my fellow Oz fans help? I got this message in my mailbox a few days ago. I hope there are people here who can help. (Please send your replies directly to this teacher, and not to me or Dave for the Digest.) --Eric ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:10:45 -0500 (CDT) From: MKPETERS@ualr.edu To: TIKTOK@ESKIMO.COM Subject: mentor I am a graduate student in Little Rock, Ark. and I have been enjoying Oz since the 5th grade. I teach 2nd grade and do a big Oz unit every year. We read as many Oz books as we can before the end of the year. They love them, too, of course. I am currently taking a class in critical thinking and one of my projects is to use THE WIZARD OF OZ to teach critical thinking. I have found it to be rich in opportunities for children to predict and problem solve. I am looking for articles or books that deal specifically with the Oz book and thinking skills. Do you know if any exist? Are there any teachers that may be able to help me? I would love to talk with them and exchange ideas. Thanks for any assistance you can give. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 12:14:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-96 > From: homer > > did anyone notice Dorothy wearing shorts in Giant Garden? i find it hard to > believe that the fashions would progress the same in Oz as in the real world. Progress nothing. They're just more PRACTICAL. (FWIW, Jack Snow wanted to see some of the earlier Oz books reillustrated so the characters were wearing more contemporary fashions. Glad the publishers didn't listen to him, in this instance...) > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: The Magic-Dependents of Oz > > 5) Can anyone tell me please which issue (and if possible, on which > pages) in the Baum Bugle A Murder of Oz was originally published? So far > the Buckethead edition, that volume of The Best of the Baum Bugle it's > in, and Spectral Snow were not available in any responding library. You won't find those issues of the "Bugle" at any library, either, since they're all from the early 50's, when very few copies were printed, and almost none of them, if any, went to institutions. But, if you must know: Part 1, October 1958, pp. 4-5; Part 2, May 1959, p. 6; Part 3, Christmas 1959, p. 4; Part 4, August 1960, p. 4; Part 5, Christmas 1960, p. 10. But if you're so interested in reading it, dig behind the sofa cushions and see if you can come up with $1.50, because that's ALL the first edition of "The Best of the Baum Bugle" costs (or at least it did for a very long time, it may have gone up just a bit in recent years). > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-12-96 > > By the way, folks, I can recommend this excellent Oz story by Christopher > Buckley without the slightest hesitation! And which story is this? > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-13-96 > > Ruth was 22 in 1913? Never was good at keeping track of ages and dates. Not surprising with Ruth, actually, since she chopped off nine years for much of her life anyway. (Any source you read that says she was born in 1900 is incorrect, she was actually born in 1891.) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 12:24:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-15-96 > From: homer > > A while ago, I received the first four graphic novels by Eric > Shanower, which I had ordered out of BoW. They were all autographed by > Shanower inside on the title page. (Real autographs, too-you could tell) > When I ordered them it didn't say that they were going to be autographed. > Does he always autograph them or was I just lucky? I'll let Peter Glassman answer this, if he's reading this. But I just want to add an observation that it seems to be BoW's policy to have books autographed whenever possible. I just got my copy of "Our Landlady," with a small card autographed by editor/annotator Nancy Tystad Koupal. And the only solace I have in having paid full price for "Dorothy: Return to Oz" is that unlike those copies you can now buy on the remainder table for four bucks, mine has Tedrow's autograph. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Yesterday's and Today's Growls > > Eric >And ten dollars is a lot to a kid just discovering Oz books and whose > week's allowance just covers the cost of a NEW book. > > Well Eric, when I was a "kid" I went out and earned money delivering papers, > mowing lawns and raking leaves, etc. I used that money to buy books (I still > have them too.). I couldn't have bought much with my allowance either. Your point being...? (Incidentally, if you are somehow implying what I doubt you are, no, I didn't just get my allowance handed to me, I had to do work around the house to get it.) > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-96 > > BTW, I actually like Jenny Jump as a villainess. Is she Public Domain? Nope. Wholly owned lock, stock and barrel by Neill's daughters. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > THE MAGIC PICTURE: > Can the Magic Picture tell *where* someone is located, or will it only show > the person and if the backdrop is unfamiliar the viewers of the Picture have > to guess at the location? The latter. > For the Adepts: "Three fine Adepts from Oz are we; > Great mistresses of sorcery; > Filled to the brim with Ozzy glee-E > Three fine Adepts from Oz..." > (etc.) What about my "Three Little MOPPeTs" suggestion from not so very long ago, which I seem to recall arising from a discussion on the Adepts? --Eric "Good, last one, I'll write again tomorrow" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 20:46:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Homer - Hmmmmm. On checking I find that of the five Shanowers only "The Enchanted Apples of Oz" is autographed. I got them from the same source as you so either I am unlucky or you are lucky. Sigh. Good Work Dave - don't let that sneaky Bear get away with anything! :) Weekend Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:32:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Turing Test 1) Mike, considering that Tik-Tok acts like a person (albeit worrying about his works running down and being unable to pick himself up), he could probably pass the Turning Test, no problem. 2) Danny, Jenny Jump is unfortunately not public domain. If she had been, she would have made it into The Woozy of Oz and conquered the Emerald City. (Actually the entire section where the Emerald City gets conquered has been removed, so I'm not giving anything away.) 3) Dave, as far as I can tell, the Magic Picture has no method for telling where someone is. Though that sort of magic is certainly possible, as the Little Pink Bear can tell where things are. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 23:38:10 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for Digestion- guaranteed not to cause a tummy ache To: DAVEH47@delphi.com Message-id: <960615233809_329521458@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT So many of you have been asking for an up to date list that I decided to put a copy on the Digest rather than try to snail mail them all. Oz books available from Buckethead Enterprises of Oz. All titles are available from BEoO exclusively, don't bother your local bookseller. Order number 8. A Viking in Oz by Chris Dulabone. $6.50 9. The Enchanted Island of Yew by L. Frank Baum. Only a few left! $8.00 13. The Deadly Desert Around Oz by Chris Dulabone. Ill. J. Leigh Perry. $10.00 14. Veggy Man of Oz by Nate Barlow $10.00 16. The Magic Diamond of Oz by Danica Libutti, et al $6.00 17. The Crocheted Cat in Oz by Hugh Pendexter. ill. Caroline Taber. $10.00 19. The Colorful Kitten of Oz by Chris Dulabone. ill. Melody Grandy. $10.00 20. Wooglet in Oz by Hugh Pendexter. ill. David St. Albans. $10.00 22. Skeezik & the Mys Tree of Oz by Marcus Mebes, et al. $7.00 23. A Wonderful Journey in Oz by Ryan Gannaway. $5.00 24. Dorothy Returns to Oz by Shawn Billman, et al. (not to be mistaken for Tedrow's book of a similar title) $5.00 27. The Dinamonster of Oz by Kenneth Gage Baum. ill. Dorothy Morena. $10.00 30. Dagmar in Oz by Chris Dulabone. ill Charlene Greski. $6.00 31. The Flying Bus in Oz by Ruth Morris. ill. Corinne Morris & Melody Grandy. $10.00 32. Lunarr & Maureen in Oz by Chris Dulabone. Ill. Marcus Mebes. $8.00 33. The Emerald Ring of Oz by Jeremy Steadman. Ill. Chris Dulabone. $10.00 34. Bungle & the Magic Lantern of Oz by Greg Gick. Ill. David St. Albans. $10.00 35. The Magic Tapestry of Oz by Marcus Mebes & Chris Dulabone. $8.00 36. The Odd Tale of Osoenft in Oz by Marcus Mebes et al. $15.00 37. The Disenchanted Princess in Oz by Melody Grandy. $25.00 38. Invisible Inzi of Oz by L. Frank Baum as told to R. and V. Wauchope. ill. Eric Shanower $10.00 39. Cory in Oz by Allison McBain. $10.00 40. The Lunechien Forest of Oz by Chris Dulabone. ill. Mark Woody. $10.00. 41. The Case of the Framed Fairy of Oz by Gil Joel. $5.00 42. Kaliko in Oz by K. Kline. ill. Michael Goldmann. $10.00 43. The Marvelous Monkeys of Oz by Chris Dulabone. ill. Paul McGrory. $10.00 44. Egor's Funhouse Goes to Oz by Chris Dulabone. $28.00 45. Red Reera the Yookoohoo & the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz by Richard Quinn. ill. Marcus Mebes. $10.00 46. Brewster Bunny & the Case of the Outrageous Enchantments in Oz by Marcus Mebes. $2.00 with additional order of $15.00 or more. $3.00 a la carte. 47. The Healing Power of Oz by Gil Joel. Ill. Marcus Mebes. $12.00 regular edition, $20.00 special edition with color plate. 48. The Lost Emeralds of Oz by Fred Otto. ill. Derek Sullivan. $10.00 49. The Haunted Castle of Oz by Marcus Mebes. $10.00 50. The Fantastic Funhouse of Oz by Chris Dulabone. $12.00 51. Fwiirp in Oz by Nate Barlow, Marcus Mebes, et al. $10.00 52. The Tin Castle of Oz by Peter Schulenburg. $12.00 53. Thorns & Private Files in Oz by Melody Grandy, Chris Dulabone. ill. Marcus Mebes. Forthcoming! Non-Buckethead Items You'll Want: A2. A Murder in Oz by Jack Snow. $3.00 A4. Oz Activity Book by ABQ Ozmite Club. $2.00 A5. Sail Away to Oz by Marcus Mebes. $5.00 A6. Ozma Gets Really... censored. Very offensive item by Lea Briggs. ill. Marcus Mebes. $1.00 -highly overpriced! A8. Scarecrow & Tin Man by W. W. Denslow. $6.00 A9. A Short, Short Oz Story by L. Frank Baum. $3.00 B1. Radioactive Teddy Bear from H*** Destroys Oz by Marcus Mebes. Nasty comic book. $10.00 25. Lurline & the White Ravens of Oz by Marcus Mebes. $1.50 26. The Mysterious Caverns of Oz by Marcus Mebes. $1.50 OSP1. Time Traveling in Oz by Ryan Gannaway. ill. Marcus Mebes. $8.00 OSP2. Sinister Gases in Oz by Ryan Gannaway. ill. Marcus Mebes. $10.00 NOTE: There are 4 copies of Braided Man left, and 5 Foolish Foxes. I would still be willing to sell these at cover price, but not for long. Man is $6.00, Fox is $3.00. The price goes up in July. ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 15-Jun-96 22:08:54 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ERIC'S WEB SITE: Eric wrote: >And now, a plea: One of my many major projects I'd like to take care of >this summer is an update/sprucing up of my web page. So I'd like all of >you with access to the WWW, if possible, to check it out soon and look out >for errors, things that need to be added ... I will. Can you make a link to my Ozzy page? http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_FAQ.html CREDIT WHERE IT'S DUE: Yes, Eric, you *did* orginally come up with the "Three Little Maids" in regards to MOPPeT's, but inspired by your effort I composed (or began to compose) my own parody specifically for the Adepts... :) FINDING LOCASTA: Aaron wrote: >Though that sort of magic is certainly >possible, as the Little Pink Bear can tell where things are. Oh, d---! Now I have to think of a reason why the *Pink Bear* doesn't work when asked about the whereabouts of Locasta! :O Thanks for the Buckethead Book List, Chris! :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 17, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:09:26 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-15-96 Homer: >A while ago, I received the first four graphic novels by Eric Shanower, >which I had ordered out of BoW. They were all autographed by Shanower >inside on the title page. (Real autographs, too-you could tell) When I >ordered them it didn't say that they were going to be autographed. >Does he always autograph them or was I just lucky? Well, you were lucky in the sense that it's always nice to have an autographed book, but the fact is that Eric signed our copies, but we simply forgot to mention it in the catalog. Ah well, better that than saying they were signed and it turned out that they weren't! Danny: >BTW, I actually like Jenny Jump as a villainess. Is she Public Domain? Definitely not! As the publisher of "The Wonder City of Oz" I can assure you that Jenny Jump is DEFINITELY still under copyright. Don't touch her or I'll have to send the Nome King after you! - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 21:11:56 -0700 From: MALCOLM BARKER Subject: Oz Ok, I finished Ozma of Oz, found here on the net,listed as #6 in Guttenberg series, #5 in the Oz series, and chronologically #3, 1907. I hope it's #3 as I am trying to read the Oz books chronologically. Hope my questions aren't too dumb, sort of new to but fascinated by this world of Oz. Oh, if I only had a brain..... Thanks, Malcolm Barker ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 05:41:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: The Little Pink Bear of Oz 1) Malcom, there are 14 cannonical Baum Oz books and a few noncannonical ones. Someone else will lecture on Disney's movie rights; they certainly don't own the books themselves. 2) Dave, don't feel bad. I have some rewriting of Mombi of Oz to do because of the Little Pink Bear too. : Oh, Little Pink Bear! Come out of your house. I've got a surprise for you... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 05:54:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-96 > From: MALCOLM BARKER > Subject: Oz, special message > > Are there 14 or 17 Oz books by L Frank Baum? It lists 14 works under > Baum on the net but I heard he wrote more, somewhere. There are fourteen NOVELS that Baum wrote, which are considered to be his "official" Oz books. But three more books have been available at one point or another (well, four, actually, but three of them are sort of related), but two of them are anthologies of short stories. The first was "The Woggle-Bug Book," written in 1905, which relates some of the Wogglebug's adventures in America after becoming separated from his compatriots. The Wogglebug is the only Oz character in the book, and some people don't consider it to be an Oz book at all -- which it isn't, really. It's no longer available, and if you can find a copy you can expect to shell out at least several hundred dollars for it (but fear not, hope is available a little later in this note). The next came in 1914. "The Little Wizard Stories of Oz" was an anthology of six short stories published separately the year before, written with younger readers in mind. A reprint is currently available from Books of Wonder. The next came in 1961, with "The Visitors from Oz." Strictly speaking, this is not really a Baum book, since what came out in this book was rewritten by Jean Kellogg, but Baum did come up with the original stories for his "Queer Visitors from the Marvelous Land of Oz" comic page in 1904-05. Finally, all of the original versions of the "Queer Visitors" stories, along with a slightly edited version of "The Woggle-Bug Book," were compiled into one anthology called "The Third Book of Oz" in 1986. The most recent edition was published by Chris Dulabone's Buckethead Enterprises of Oz, but I see from his latest list (good timing, Chris!) that it's not currently available. Perhaps a used copy will turn up, or Chris will get so many requests for it that he's forced to reprint it... > Has Disney seriously bought rights to the original works? I'm making > sure to print or copy them all I can find just now on the net just in > case. Relax, Disney just bought the MOVIE rights, which have all lapsed now anyway. (Everyone, Disney bought the rights way back in the early 1960's IIRC, so there's no need to panic.) There are plenty of Oz books out there for everyone to buy. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for Digestion- guaranteed not to cause a tummy ache > > So many of you have been asking for an up to date list that I decided to put > a copy on the Digest rather than try to snail mail them all. Chris, how 'bout a monthly reposting of this? And a major press release for every new book when it becomes available? > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > ERIC'S WEB SITE: > Eric wrote: > >And now, a plea: One of my many major projects I'd like to take care of > >this summer is an update/sprucing up of my web page. So I'd like all of > >you with access to the WWW, if possible, to check it out soon and look out > >for errors, things that need to be added ... > > I will. Can you make a link to my Ozzy page? > http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_FAQ.html Not only are plans already afoot for this, I also plan a direct e-mail link to Dave so that people reading the FAQ and wanting to subscribe to our little daily dose of electrons here can tell him right then and there. --Eric Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # "My childhood had an unhappy ending -- I grew up." --Frank and Ernest ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:45:40 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-96 A. I'm sure Tik Tok could pass the Turing test, as long as his thought function were wound up! B. Malcolm is going to be swamped with these messages... but just in case- If you read the last couple of digests carefully, Baum's Oz books, all 14 of them, are now public domain. Baum did write many other fantasy books, some of which share characters with the Oz books, and this may be what had you confused. There are only 14 Baum Oz books. C. I didn't know Eugene was ever called "The Emerald City"! Now I can say I've lived in the Emerald city ... (for a year, at age five. That was the year Mt. St. Helen's errupted in Washington, and half my kindergarten brought jars of ash to show and tell...) I've never been quite convinced by the explanation given for why Toto didn't talk in "The Wizard of Oz". I'm sure he must have had a LOT to say to Dorothy. Maybe he was under a spell? Anyone have any theories? (maybe the enchantment on Oz wasn't strong enough in those days?) Gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 11:02:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-96 > > It depends on the system the reader is using. Some can handle such > characters, but others, such as mine, can't, and any unusual character > gets reproduced as something totally off-the-wall (but in ASCII) or a > string of nonsense characters. > > > Speaking of stuff to sell (we were, weren't we?), I have an Oz Wonderland War > > trilogy to unload for around $30.00, as well as three back-issues of that > > notoriously hideous OZ comic #s 0, 11 and 14 ($30.00 set) that I REALLY want > > to be rid of. > > Your prices may be pushing it there. You can probably get the $30 for > "Oz-Wonderland War" from Oz fans, but according to the latest Overstreet > Comic Book Price Guide, the values of "Oz-Wonderland" is currently only > $2.00 per issue in Near Mint condition. For some reason they don't list > the "Oz" title, but they're probably still available in back-issue bins > for around cover price or less right now. pushing it heck thats not pushing it thats ripping it off folks let me set this straight you can find the oz wonderland war at probally almost any comic shop in your state for about 2 bucks a issue and ive seen it as low as 25 cents if you pay over 10 bucks your being ripped off and shame on the person doing it cause it isnt ozlike hugs anthony van pyre and why the other oz books are not listed is because overstreet does miss books usally they are independents which the oz series and oz squad both are > wearing more contemporary fashions. Glad the publishers didn't listen to > him, in this instance...) > > > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > > Subject: The Magic-Dependents of Oz > > > > 5) Can anyone tell me please which issue (and if possible, on which > > pages) in the Baum Bugle A Murder of Oz was originally published? So far > > the Buckethead edition, that volume of The Best of the Baum Bugle it's > > in, and Spectral Snow were not available in any responding library. > > You won't find those issues of the "Bugle" at any library, either, since > they're all from the early 50's, when very few copies were printed, and > almost none of them, if any, went to institutions. But, if you must know: > Part 1, October 1958, pp. 4-5; Part 2, May 1959, p. 6; Part 3, Christmas > 1959, p. 4; Part 4, August 1960, p. 4; Part 5, Christmas 1960, p. 10. But > if you're so interested in reading it, dig behind the sofa cushions and > see if you can come up with $1.50, because that's ALL the first edition of > "The Best of the Baum Bugle" costs (or at least it did for a very long > time, it may have gone up just a bit in recent years). > actually i can think of one library that may have these and thats michigan state universitys library i know they have many many copies of the bugle as well as comic books one of the local book dealers is a oz fanatic and sells used and new oz books at his store (hi ray at curious book shop east lansing michigan) and he helped get msu's collection going and i do beleive helps maintain it hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 14:35:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls >> Well Eric, when I was a "kid" I went out and earned money delivering papers, >> mowing lawns and raking leaves, etc. I used that money to buy books (I still >> have them too.). I couldn't have bought much with my allowance either. >Your point being...? (Incidentally, if you are somehow implying what I >doubt you are, no, I didn't just get my allowance handed to me, I had to >do work around the house to get it.) My point is that if you want something bad enough you will make the effort/sacrifice/choice to get it. I wanted books more than anything else. Still do! :) Regarding Chris' book list - Did someone complain there aren't enough Oz books available? Awesome! Father's Day Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 17:37:29 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: more digest stuff I hope that we are all together again. Can somebody give us an overview of the Ozmapolitan Con? There are some of us who are too $less to go. I will, however, be going to Winkie Con next month, so anyone wanting a specific book listed yesterday can let me know and I will try to bring it. In case Melody is not home yet, the book she was talking about by Chris Buckley is called Beach Blanket BabylOz. She is still finishing up the color cover, but the interior looks wonderful. I wonder if she has the new project I sent her in readable form yet... By the way, I got a note from CSI telling me that I had a wrong address for her, and that is why our connections were incompatible. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 15:18:35 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Okay, so if Jenny Jump is not public domain, I need to find another villan for my second Oz story (not neccessarily very similar) (Of course, it might also help if I finished my FIRST one. . .) Does anyone know of a character (preferably one of Baum's) who has made it to Oz (preferably from America) but was not allowed to stay? This character would be one who would be trying to get back to Oz no matter what the cost, and hence be my misguided villan. If worse comes to worse, I will use a fairy-villan like the Nome king, etc, or even someone like the Ork who happens to be trapped in America. The synopsis: Button Bright, who becomes lost again in America, becomes tangled up in the plot as the villan tries to use The Traveller's Guide to Oz to return to that fairy land. I was going to write "The Traveller's Guide to Oz" as a stand-alone "factual" book a la Jack Snow's Who's Who, but will end up interspercing this text with the adventure story summarized above. Anyone interested in being a proofreader for my first book "The Greatest Mystery of Oz?" (Formerly titled on this Digest as "The FLying Monkeys of Oz.") It should be done by the end of this summer. Crossing my fingers, of course, Danny PS, How was the Winkie convention, anyone? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:44:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Two day's worth. I forgot to check my e-mail Saturday. On the Magic Picture: John's idea is, of course, the practical one. But we must ask ourselves, does the Magic Picture have this ability? I don't think that the Magic Picture can give us a wider view of a person so that we can tell where they are. "Magnification 12" and "Z-Axis plus 10,000 meters" have never been used, to my knowledge, in or out of the FF. However, this is not a bar to transportation. Ozma brought Dorothy to Oz at the end of _DotWiz_ by looking at her in the picture. Of course, I'm sure the Wizard could adjust the picture for mobile viewing. Also, it will take only one story where this happens to let us know that the Wizard has done this. Dave: Well, I got Saturday's and Sunday's digest, so the Delphi curse must have been diverted by Lurline and Glinda. Dave and Bear: believe everything has its place, and by bringing such concepts as politics onto the digest, we risk spoiling the Ozzy nature of it. There are other alternatives for persons such as Bear and myself to air our right (and right wing HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) views. For example, have you tried the TOWNHALL Forum on CompuServe? Malcolm: Baum wrote 14 books in the Oz series, but he also wrote a lot of other material, much of which has been published as books. Some examples are _The Third Book of Oz_, which contains some short stories originally written in a newspaper; _Little Wizard Stories_, six short stories written by Baum as bedtime stories for children; and _A Short Short Oz Story_, which was orginally written on the inside cover of a copy of _Road To Oz_. IMHO, none of these are HIstorically Accurate to the flow of mainstream Oz history, and will not appear on the HACC, if I can ever get it finished. I beleive my two-week deadline passed by a month ago. Chris D: Thanks for the new list. I'll update my web page Monday! Dave: I would argue that you do not need to have a reason as to why the Pink Bear is not functioning (Although I'll bet it's because the Bear King sent in for the latest Microsoft Upgrade and it crahsed his system). How many times, in or out of the FF, has the Pink Bear been used? He doesn't reside in EC, after all, and it's entirely possible that they have forgotten him. Also, of course, the Adepts would not know of him and would not be able to suggest him. This is similar to a thread that has been brought up ocassionally on the digest. In many cases, problems can be solved early on by the tremendous magical power available to the Ozites, but then there would be no story, so the power is not used and no explanation is given. I see no reason to change this policy. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 16-Jun-96 23:56:32 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA OF OZ: Malcolm B. wrote: >Ok, I finished Ozma of Oz, found here on the net,listed as #6 in Guttenberg >series, #5 in the Oz series, and chronologically #3, 1907... _Ozma of Oz_ is *most definitely #3 in the series, and I don't know where Project Guttenberg or whoever got the idea it was otherwise! BTW, if you want to see a listing of the titles in the original series (the "Famous Forty") it is in my Ozzy Digest FAQ, which I can send you, and it is also at my web site at: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_FAQ.html >Hope my questions aren't too dumb... *NO* question is too dumb! We all have to start somewhere... :) >Oh, if I only had a brain..... Scarecrow: It's the people *with* brains who aren't afriad to ask questions! CHRIS' _OZ-WONDERLAND_ WAR OFFER: Anthony wrote: >pushing it heck thats not pushing it thats ripping it off... FWIW, I have searched far and wide the Comic book shops in Orange County, CA, and I cannot find *ANY* Oz graphic novel, let alone _Oz-Wonderland_! I'm sure Chris has NO DESIRE WHATSOEVER to "rip off" anyone, and that he has a good reason for charging $30 for his copy, which I'm sure he'll be happy to clarify. ( And in case you were wondering folks, yes, this *IS* Dave in "Flame-War Prevention Mode" :) :) :) ) BEACH BLANKET BABYLOZ: Okay, can someone tell me about this new story? ( Please tell me Ozma doesn't turn into Gidget and go surfing! :) :) :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 18, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 22:00:38 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-96 Gili: >Here's a question about assesing the value of an Oz book. I know that >stamps with printing errors are more valuable than other stamps. Does >the same go for books? Sorry, but no. But don't feel bad. This is one of the most common misconceptions about books. Whereas money, coins and stamps are all strenuously overseen to avoid any errors, books are produced as enter- tainment and information sources - not legal tender (or the postal equivalent thereof). Therefore, books with mistakes are worth less than those without (unless the mistake is integral to the first issue of the first edition - as the mistakes in the first edition, first state of "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"). - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:02:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 chris (at least i think it was chris) not trying to start a flame war sorry but i have lived in lansing michigan and new orleans and have visted all over and have always been able to find oz comics and books have you checked outside the area you are in as i siad a shop in your state should have them and if you need any just let me know i can point you in directions to find them i can name about 10 shops just here in michigan alone where you can get them hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:06:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 > From: MALCOLM BARKER > Subject: Oz > > Ok, I finished Ozma of Oz, found here on the net,listed as #6 in Guttenberg > series, #5 in the Oz series, and chronologically #3, 1907. I hope it's #3 as > I am trying to read the Oz books chronologically. Hope my questions aren't > too dumb, sort of new to but fascinated by this world of Oz. Oh, if I only > had a brain..... Thanks, Malcolm Barker You can always check out my web page or one of the other ones being maintained around here for a complete list of books. (And for your next one, you need to look for "Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz.") > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-96 > [re: pricing on "Oz-Wonderland War Trilog"] > pushing it heck thats not pushing it thats ripping it off folks let me set > this straight you can find the oz wonderland war at probally almost any > comic shop in your state for about 2 bucks a issue and ive seen it as low > as 25 cents Well, *I* haven't seen any for sale for a long, long time. (Granted, I haven't been LOOKING, either...) > if you pay over 10 bucks your being ripped off and shame on > the person doing it cause it isnt ozlike You haven't tried to buy older, vintage Oz books lately, have you? There are some MAJOR rip-off artists out there... > and why the other oz books are not listed is > because overstreet does miss books usally they are independents which the > oz series and oz squad both are Overstreet doesn't list the "Oz" title from Caliber, but they do have "Oz Squad" in there, as well as the Shanower graphic novels and the Marvel/DC movie collaboration and the Marvel "Land of Oz" adaptation. [re: ILLing old "Bugle"s with "A Murder in Oz"] > actually i can think of one library that may have these and thats michigan > state universitys library i know they have many many copies of the bugle > as well as comic books one of the local book dealers is a oz fanatic and > sells used and new oz books at his store (hi ray at curious book shop east > lansing michigan) and he helped get msu's collection going and i do > beleive helps maintain it The problem is, since those issues of the "Bugle" go so far back, are they even available at MSU? These were some of the very earliest issues of the "Bugle," back when it was more newsletter than magazine, and Club membership was so small that very few issues were produced. Even if MSU had them, would they be willing to loan them out to another library? I doubt it very much, if they're part of a special collection. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: more digest stuff > > In case Melody is not home yet, the book she was talking about by Chris > Buckley is called Beach Blanket BabylOz. She is still finishing up the color > cover, but the interior looks wonderful. Now I can't recall: Will this be ready by Winkies? > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > Okay, so if Jenny Jump is not public domain, I need to find another > villan for my second Oz story (not neccessarily very similar) (Of > course, it might also help if I finished my FIRST one. . .) You could always make up your OWN character... (Don't laugh, authors do it all the time .) > PS, How was the Winkie convention, anyone? Ask me again in four weeks, once I come back from Winkis! (I assume you mean Ozmapolitan? Reports should be trickling in very soon...) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > On the Magic Picture: > John's idea is, of course, the practical one. But we must ask ourselves, > does the Magic Picture have this ability? Karyl and I do sort of push the envelope a bit with the Magic Picture's abilities in "Queen Ann in Oz"... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:12:23 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-15-96 > ====================================================================== > Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:39:35 -0400 (EDT) > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Special Alert > > I assume most of you know about the new viruses? Briefly, don't download > anything with "Good Times" in the title. It comes out of AOL and is lethal. If > you download it it can destroy your hard drive and possibly permanently damage > your processor. The only defense is not reading the file. Delete it > immediately. > > The other virus is a new Trojan Horse named PKZIP300.ZIP If you download it > will also wipe your hard disk clean. > The "Good Times" Virus is a hoax. It has been around the 'net world for many, many years. (although I'll concede that there may be a downloadable virus with that name. The usual claim is that simply reading a mail message with that subject will cause damage to your system, which is impossible). On the other hand, the PKZIP300 virus IS real, and very deadly. Be aware! > > THE MAGIC PICTURE: > Can the Magic Picture tell *where* someone is located, or will it only show > the person and if the backdrop is unfamiliar the viewers of the Picture have > to guess at the location? I was going to say, "yeah, if carefully worded," but someone beat me to the punch (as usually happens on weekends.) Since the picture can show you "anything or anybody that you wish", one should be able to say "Show me all the land within five mile of Princess Ozma" and been able to discover her in _Lost Princess_, were the terrain recognized... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 13:17:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Danny: The only person I can remember form Baum's 14 who did not remain in Oz was Zeb of Hugson's Ranch, from _Dot&Wiz_. He was not refused permission to stay, he simply felt he needed to go home. Maybe, years later, he remembers his adventures and becomes obsessed with the idea of returning to Oz. Aaron: The arguements I gave Dave for not needing to explain away the Pink Bear could also apply to your story. There are dozens of magical artifacts in the Ozzy world, and it has never been necessary before for an author to take the time to explain why each one was not used to solve the problems of a given book. Dave: I'll definitely go with you on this one. How are people going to learn about things if they never ask questions? You can see this same thing in college classes. Nobody wants to raise their hand and ask the professor to explain something, although it's obvious that almost everybody wants the question to be asked! Deep in the heart of SOC (Strategic Oz Command) Headquarters: Tyler: Dave, there's a possible flame situation in sector 47 of the digest! Dave: I'm on my way! Dave hops into his scalawagon and douses the Oz-Wonderland War comic discussion with good feelings. In Chris's defense, however, I myself have never seen this comic offered in any comic store. It IS 10 years old, after all. If it is the case that this series is no longer in print, then $30.00 may be a fair price, assuming that it is near mint condition. If it is available still, then the price would of course be much lower. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:58:29 +22322105 (CDT) From: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 I have returned from Louisville, but have not time for a long description now. My computer is still not well. It was a good convention for Munchkins, and I met many good people, some on the digest. Ozbot: The only Baum characters I can think of from American who never returned to Oz are Zeb and Jim the Cab Horse from DandW. Eureka returned, but with no canonical explanation. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:11:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: People who got kicked out of Oz 1) Daniel, as far as I can remember no one from America has ever been refused residence in Oz, even when they deserved it (e.g., Jenny Jump). Of course, you could always invent a previous undocumented character with that property. Xavier: Why can't I stay in Oz? Ozma: Because you're a horrible person, completely lacking in any virtues. I can't allow you to stay here. You'd set a bad example for my people. Xavier: Well, have the Wizard do to me what he did to Jenny Jump. Ozma: I'm sorry, but we don't do that any more. 2) Tyler, what are so historically inaccurate about the Little Wizard Stories of Oz? Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:28:15 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests since 06-13-96 What with going to the Ozmopolitan Convention, I haven't had a chance to comment on Digests for a while. Several people were asking for reports on the convention, so herewith my own brief (well, briefer than they might be) comments: It was quite a pleasant gathering, though very different in atmosphere from the Winkie Conferences that I've been to. Probably a lot of this was caused by the fact that it was in a big downtown hotel rather than in a resort in the woods - I'll find out about that next year, since the Ozmopolitan is going to be at a resort in the woods then. (And I'm going to be the Registrar/chairman...) Highlight was probably the thunderstorm that tracked our riverboat downstream Friday night, giving us all a frisson of feeling that just maybe a cyclone would develop and carry us all off to Oz... Although there were a lot of other highlights as well; the riverboat cruise featured several (I think four) of the original Munchkins from the MGM movie first performing some of their old songs and then being interviewed by John Fricke. (However, since I'm not that much of a fan of the movie, and it was probably 90 degrees on the enclosed deck where they were performing, I spent very little time there.) I got to meet several people I'd previously only known from the Digest - Steve Teller, Estelle Klein (and her delightful daughter Rebecca - the Real "Becky" Klein, for those of you who've read GLASS CAT), Melody Grandy, and Jane Albright - plus renewing acquaintance with Digest folks like Robin Olderman, Jim Vander Noot, and Peter Hanff. (If I've missed mentioning anyone I met, forgive me. If I missed meeting any of you who were there, I regret it very much.) Probably the most interesting item from the Digest point of view was a conversation that I had with Eric Shanower (who, by the way, received the L. Frank Baum Award this year). He didn't say anything about it's being in confidence, and was talking about it in an open room (though I don't think anyone else was listening besides David Maxine), so I think it's OK if I post it here. The conversation started off when I asked him how heavily he'd edited RUNAWAY (answer: a lot in terms of turning it into readable English, but not too much in terms of plot or characterization). But the interesting point was that he's read the original MS of WONDER CITY, and learned that Neill's MS had been completely rewritten - not just for readability, but for plot and characterization - by some anonymous person at Reilly & Lee, to Neill's great annoyance. Specifically, many of the things I found most objectionable in WC were not Neill's idea at all, but were put in against his wishes by the editor - including the whole Ozlection idea, Jenny's regression in age, and her lobotomization at the hands of the Wizard. It may well be that Neill himself was by no means as ignorant of the content of the earlier Oz books as it would appear from the books published under his name - he was a very poor writer, apparently, but very likely neither as stupid nor as weird as one might think from reading his books. Moving on to past Digests: 6/14: Homer: One of the later immigrants to Oz - Jenny Jump or Robin Brown, perhaps - might have introduced the idea of shorts. Although in GLASS CAT I attribute the change in style to girls wearing jeans (and presumably by extension shorts) to Becky Klein when she moved to Oz. I wrote that before any of Shanower's illustrations of Dorothy and Trot in pants or shorts had appeared, though it was published long after. Melody: Kimbaloo in LOST KING was the buttony kingdom, but Ragbad in GRAMPA was the one where Mrs. Sew-and-Sew lived; both could be said to have had to do with sewing, along with Patch. Dave: In GIANT HORSE there is an illustration labeled "Dorothy at Home in Oz" in which the character depicted is dressed as a flapper. However, it's clearly a picture of Trot, not Dorothy - the features, the hairstyle, the hair color, and the dress are all about the same as those shown on Trot in a number of other illustrations throughout that book. On the other hand, there's a picture of Dorothy later on in the book in which she is her usual blonde wavy-haired self, in, as I recall (still haven't unpacked my Oz books), a sort of surplice-front dress very different from the square-necked flapper dress Trot wears throughout. It's my opinion that this was just another screwup by someone at R&L, like the upside-down pictures in KABUMPO, JACK PUMPKINHEAD, and WISHING HORSE (if not other places). The two-line placement of accents only works if the writer and reader are using the same font, or if they're using a monospaced font. When I read your post the accent was over the second "l" in "Lurline", and not the "e", until I converted to Monaco. 6/15: Danny: I like Jenny Jump myself, though as a heroine rather than a villainess. But alas, she's not PD and won't be until 2015 or so - unless they change the law and make it take even longer. 6/17: Danny: I think the only human Baum character who visited Oz and then left for our world and didn't return was Zeb, from DOTWIZ. However, it wasn't that he wasn't allowed to stay, but that he didn't want to. And he'd be hitting the century mark by now, which is getting a bit long in the tooth for a serious villain... Of course, all the Whimsies, Growleywogs, and Phanfasms were sent out of Oz, but not to our world. This isn't to say that the First and Foremost mightn't have found his way here while looking for another way to Oz, though... Dave: One of the most disappointing things in the entire Oz series is the fact that in SCALAWAGONS Neill had a perfect chance to draw Ozma in a bathing suit, and didn't! Maybe Melody will remedy this major flaw in BEACH BLANKET BABYLOZ... Incidentally, I bought THE DISENCHANTED PRINCESS/SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS PART 1 at Ozmopolitan and have finished reading it now. An excellent book, and I can see why Tyler rates it so highly. (And Melody is indeed a first-rate illustrator; I'd never seen her work before.) My only quibble is that the style and story line seems to owe a good deal more to THE SWORD IN THE STONE than it does to Oz. This isn't bad; it's just not what I'd call "Ozzy". I do highly recommend that all of you buy this book so that Volume 2 can be published! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 18:05:32 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest boo-boo Whoops! Winkie Convention is next month! Me bad! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:19:50 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: Baum Question Can anyone on Ozzy Digest help answer? --- On Fri, 14 Jun 1996 15:52:54 -0700 SGARRE wrote: I was wondering if you might be able to answer a question for me or direct me in the right direction. Someone I know has recently discovered that L. Frank Baum was a member of a Rosicrucian society during his life. They wondered if this fact had been elaborated on in any biography or personal comments of his own, or any theories as to how it showed up in his writings. I don't really know that much about this myself but I have Web access while my friend doesn't so she asked if I could ask around. Any ideas? Thanks for your time! If you would like to e-mail some response to me, please be advised that I am available at GARRETT@BMS.COM, NOT the e-mail address above (it won't work for some reason!) thanks again Shawn M. Garrett aka Gyro G. -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 6/17/96 Time: 9:19:50 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 21:22:14 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: JCSBBQ@ix.netcom.com For the Ozzy Digest: --- On Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:54:45 -0700 JCSBBQ@ix.netcom.com wrote: I was wondering if anybody overthere could help me with a psychological evaluation on the "Wizard of Oz". It would be a study on "The Heroine's Journey: A Mysthical Analysis of the Wizard of Oz". If anybody can help me, I would be greatly obliged! Thanx! :) -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 6/17/96 Time: 9:22:14 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 23:34:19 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: comix Sorry for asking too much on OZ comix. I had not known how rare they were, so was guessing at their value. I had seen Oz/Wonderland War go for a lot more than $30.00 for a single issue at Club Conventions, so had thought that that much for a whole set was a very low price. In any event, I have never seen an OZ at a con, so I really don't know what it's worth. IMHO, a lot less than the paper and ink it took to make it. I suspect that people at Club Cons are more ready to part with their money, so I will put these in the Winkie Auction on consignment for about $5.00 an issue, unless any of you wants to make an offer. I apologize for not knowing more about the value or collectability of bad comix. While on the act of apologizing, I am told that I erroneously named Melody as the sole author/illustrator of Thorns and Private Files. I can't believe I did that. Or were my words misinterpreted? NO! It is a book that she co-authored with me based on a series of illos by Marcus Mebes. She will add a picture to it of her own, however, which I have not seen yet, but expect will be magnificent. This book will follow Tin Castle (if I haven't said so, TC is at press now and will be $12.00), as we have a backer for it. As it has its own funding, it will not bump any book in the backlog from its allotted slot. The next book I have to pay for is still Pegasus in Oz, and I still hope to see it out in the next couple months. It is a very good story, and I will keep the digest abreast of any progress toward its publication. Someone asked if I could post the list monthly. I'd be willing, though it sure would make for a very LONG digest once a month. I would also want instruction on how I could send it without having to type it directly into "compose mail" every month. As an update, I will no longer be selling the cheap crappy 1990 versions of Lurline or Caverns. If anyone wants a 1995 version of Caverns, Marcus had provided me with a number of them. The Hungry Tiger is now a character in it, and some other corrections were made as well, including far superior illustrations. The anti-drug message remains intact. This is so easy to take coming from a guy who committed suicide. I wasn't going to sell these, but I really do want to get enough $ to whip out my current backlog so that I may one day be able to publish Dave's masterpiece. This is the main reason for my current act of cleaning house. Not that I am trying to insult any of these books; they are all lovely, but I think Locasta is very special. If anyone cares to help get my backlog cleaned out in readiness for Locasta, I might be able to cough up some spare copies of Wiz Kids or other non-Buckethead Oz books. I also have some original art that appears in Oz books, but no way will I part with any of Melody's. Original hand-written mss, too. I have a lot of non-Oz books including tons of Piers Anthony (I used to respect him, so bought a lot of his stuff before I found out what sort of a guy he was). If anyone wants to plan a trip to ABQ to dig through my storage unit, I'll be happy to let most of that stuff go cheap. Real cheap! Rinny mentions that someone said Jenny is a villain. She was never really evil; she just wanted to run in an ozlection for ruler of Oz in Wonder City, and Ozma let her. SPOILER: Jenny did lose her temper and act mean when she lost, but reformed. Gee, I am pulling a Melody Grandy and just going back over this and over it again and again. I think I have run out of Oz news, so it's time to beam this off to Dave. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 17:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Gili Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 Hi Digest! Danny - how about Dorothy's cousin from "Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz"? He did seem rather happy to go back home at the end, but maybe he changed his mind. Actually, an even better potential well-meaning villian would be Jim the cab horse. I can certainly see why he would want to return to Oz! It's a dog's life for horses in a non-fairy world. (Hah hah.) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:02:55 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 Danny - How about Jim the cab-horse from "Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz"? Perhaps he has thought of a way of beating the Sawhorse in a race. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:16:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-96 I'm fine. Some deterioration in an artery caused some problems, but medication should take care of it. Thanks for good wishes, y'all. Trying to catch up on DIGESTS: Sorry if I respond to something that's responded to already, but I can't remember all the stuff I've read already and will certainly forget it if I try to read more. Eric: >You won't find those issues of the "Bugle" at any library, either, since >they're all from the early 50's, Nope. The club didn't start until 1957. Tik-Tok: He may say he doesn't "live," but I think he must, even when he's not wound up. How else could he remember things? (I sense a spate of computerish answers coming). He has a personality and a sense of ethics. He is able to use what I can only refer to as judgment, based not only on past data, but based on moral factors, as well. Shanower: Eric made a very conscious decision to dress Dorothy in modern garb. He knew there'd be flak, but figured that when Oz "belonged" to Neill, the illustrator chose modern dress. So-o-o.... Gili: My feeling is that your odd book has no real extra value. R&L made similar mistakes all too frequently, indiscriminately using cps they had hanging around, whether the plates matched the books or not. OzCon: It was fun to see everybody. What you don't know about Melody is that her talents encompass more than art and writing. She can boogie! We were given some line dance instruction one night, and there was Melody. She was terrific. I gave up after the Makarena, the first one. Not Melody! She kept going, and going, and going.... BTW: I think that Melody, Jim, and I were the only ones from the DIGEST who braved the line dancing. I'm going to book for Winkies today, now that I know for sure I can go. Yay! --Robin ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 19, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:52:02 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest (as usual...) I got my Digest late today - about 5:30 pm. It was funny, as I had just beamed a note to Dave asking about it. We must have crossed wires. Oh, well. I thank you for the info on the Con. I would have liked to have been there, but unfortunately $ controls so much in life. So far, Robin has stated online that she'll be at Winkie. So will Rinny and I. Will the three of us be alone? Or did I miss all the rest of your statements saying you'd be there? Thanks for your free advertisement for Disenchanted Princess. I always enjoy hearing kind words about BEoO books. I am not aware of any other Baum characters offhand who did not stay to live in Oz, though I do recall several of the reverse: In Third Book (Queer Visitors), many Ozian celebrities go AWAY from Oz, never to return (well, as they are there in the next book, we know they did return. I have a few ideas for that missing book, but so far have not gotten around to writing much. I could sure use a helper. Any takers? Oh, Rinny and I made the mistake of going into a local collectors' shop this week. I have just seen the Ashton-Drake dolls, though they are several years old. Wow, $80.00 each! I will not be acquiring any of these. They also had several MGM music boxes and a tin, as well as the X-mas ornaments (and a very elegant set of fragile X-massies that was $170.00!) I do not care to buy any of these for me (though the A-D Lion is absolutely darling!), but if anyone wants them, I can put you in touch with Lorrie's Collectibles. I do not know what they'd charge for postage or insurance -the latter of which I must suggest at least for the expensive X-mas ornaments. Okay, I gotta ask: Was anyone at Ozmapolitan Con on the market for a calendar? I would sure like to know if the dragons ever saw print. If it was available there, can you at least let me know via private e-mail? Thanx! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:34:21 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Accentuating Letters In re: how to put in those pesky accent marks I have also seen honest-to-goodness French people on-line put the accent ague *after* the letter, and the accent grave *before* the letter like so: Fr`ere Jacques, e'trange (with the apostrophe filling in for the accent here). The circumflex was also put in after the letter (table d'ho^te). It's not pretty, but it gets the job done. -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:21:07 -0500 (EST) From: TMP_HARKINS@DIRAC.PHYSICS.JMU.EDU Subject: For Ozzy Digest HI All! I have an -important question for those of us who would like to see a "OZ" Role-playing game. It may not -seem- like a related question, but trust me! Is there any way that a person can be legally -sure- as to what is in Public Domain and what isn't? Specifically, I had someone tell me that even though the copyright might have expired on the -books- (making reprints cost less due to not having to pay a person/estate) it may or may not have expired on the -characters-. I really need to know who to ask about this, or where to look for this ASAP. How does one -know- what is in Public Domain (PD) and what isn't? How does one -know- who is in PD and who isn't? Which L. Frank Baum books are in PD? I am primarily interested in the "Oz" books, but I am also interested in the book he wrote about the related areas around Oz (such as D&T in Merryland, etc.). Are there any others in PD other than L Frank Baum? Help! I'm begging here! :^) Feel free to write the digest or write me direct. Bruce ("Captain Nemo") Gray tmp_harkins@dirac.physics.jmu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:23:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 Beach Blanket Babyloz: Who is printing this? I didn't catch the info. It is a very good story. Before I realized that I could do only one story in an issue, I really wanted it for OZIANA. Rinny: I remember your story about Ozma's hair color. I thought, and still think, you'd come up with a very clever solution to an Oz mystery. Chris: Will you be bringing Fred Otto's EMERALDS OF OZ and the OZ ACTIVITY BOOK to Winkies, or will I have to order them? Ozmopolitan: Report? I'm not good at that, but we went on a riverboat ride Friday night and heard a cute musical version of the movie. John Fricke showed us the Munchkinland section of the movie and pointed out where Margaret Pelligrini, Jerry Marin, and Little Karl were in each part of the scene. (Those were the 3 Munchikins who were with us. BTW, Little Karl is really, really little. He makes Margaret and Jerry look tall. He was the first trumpeter in the movie.) We were also entertained by lightning towards the end of the trip. Saturday morning we could choose two out of three presentations to attend. One was about Oz music, given by David Maxine. Another was about Nomes, given by Eric Shanower, and the third was given by John Fricke, about Judy Garland. The rest of the day was taken by the auction and a swap meet. Saturday night's program began with Nancy Koupal's slide talk about Baum's OUR LANDLADY. Then we saw the premier of Willard Carroll's Oz Kids version of SEA FAIRIES. It was terrific. The L.Frank Baum Award was given to Eric Shanower. (YAY!) Research table and quiz prizes were announced. The fiction award went to the DIGEST's very own talented Eleanor Kennedy. YAY!!! (I want to read that story, Eleanor.) Sunday morning we saw a slide presentation about the homes of L.Frank Baum; it was given by Ozma Baum Mantele, his granddaughter. And then we had to return to the real world. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:04:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-96 > > > if you pay over 10 bucks your being ripped off and shame on > > the person doing it cause it isnt ozlike > > You haven't tried to buy older, vintage Oz books lately, have you? There > are some MAJOR rip-off artists out there... oh trust me i know about rippoffs on the vintage oz books > > > [re: ILLing old "Bugle"s with "A Murder in Oz"] > > actually i can think of one library that may have these and thats michigan > > state universitys library i know they have many many copies of the bugle > > as well as comic books one of the local book dealers is a oz fanatic and > > sells used and new oz books at his store (hi ray at curious book shop east > > lansing michigan) and he helped get msu's collection going and i do > > beleive helps maintain it > > The problem is, since those issues of the "Bugle" go so far back, are they > even available at MSU? These were some of the very earliest issues of the > "Bugle," back when it was more newsletter than magazine, and Club > membership was so small that very few issues were produced. Even if MSU > had them, would they be willing to loan them out to another library? I > doubt it very much, if they're part of a special collection. > they wouldnt loan them out probally but would send xerox copies i would think > Dave hops into his scalawagon and douses the Oz-Wonderland War comic > discussion with good feelings. > > In Chris's defense, however, I myself have never seen this comic offered in > any comic store. It IS 10 years old, after all. If it is the case that this > series is no longer in print, then $30.00 may be a fair price, assuming that > it is near mint condition. If it is available still, then the price would of > course be much lower. > considering they only list for 2 bucks a piece in overstreet you thnk 30 would be a fair price ususally i have seen comic shops more then ahppy to see these go > appears in Oz books, but no way will I part with any of Melody's. Original > hand-written mss, too. I have a lot of non-Oz books including tons of Piers > Anthony (I used to respect him, so bought a lot of his stuff before I found > out what sort of a guy he was). If anyone wants to plan a trip to ABQ to dig > through my storage unit, I'll be happy to let most of that stuff go cheap. do you have pornacopia ive been looking for this book ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:20:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Anthony: Did I detect PUNCTUATION in your last posting? I am so disillusioned! :-) Eric and Malcom: My page, of course, does not list the FF separately. They are mixed in with the rest of the HACC, but Eric and Dave have lists of just the FF so you will never lose your way. Eric and Danny: Making up a character is a good way to go for several reasons. Among them are 1) this person is YOUR creation, your own special contribution to Oz and 2) the character comes with no preconceptions, either for you, the author or us the readers. One of the strengths of the Oz books down through the decades comes from mixing old and new. Enough new characters and places to keep things exciting and enough of the legacy people and places to provide continuity and to give us a sense of history. On the magic picture: One of the interesting questions about the picture is "can we hear sound through the thing?" In _Emerald City_ we could. In other books, it was clearly implied that we could not. In _Royal Book_, we could not at first, but then the Wizard boosted the picture with a magical insturment that was not identified. Steve T: David Hulan once theorized that Eureka sneaked (or is that snuck?) along with the party in _Road_ and when she was discovered in Oz, they decided to keep her around. Of course, she was not mentioned in _Emerald City_, but that does not mean that she was not there. Aaron: While nobody has ever been refused admittance into Oz, Shaggy's brother came close to it in _Tik-Tok_, when Ozma stated that she had no compelling reason to let him in. Also, Aaron, I was going to peruse the Little Wizard Stories and tell you why I took them off the HACC, but I can't find them right now! Let me look for them and then I'll let you know. David and Danny: Of course, Danny could write the story as taking place only a few years after Zeb's return, or he could have accidentally encountered some de-aging magic, perhaps the Ozzy equivalent of the Fountain of Youth. David again: Glad that you liked _Disenchanted Princess_. Does this mean that you will be writing a review of it for my web page? The same goes for all others who have read BEOO books. Chris and Rinny are forbidden to submit reviews due to an obvious conflict of interest. Chris: As for sending an updated catalog without having to retype the whole thing, AOL may allow you to send a text file as e-mail. Also, you could keep the catalog in electronic form, copy the whole thing onto the clipboard, and then paste it into the mailbox area. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you had a PC with CompuServe, you could do it very easily and very quickly. That, by the way, was NOT a commercial for CompuServe. A Computerish answer for Robin: Tik-Tok could easily store memories on a hard drive or equivalent piece of equipment. As for using judgement, ethics and learning, they could all be simulated by circuitry and magic. Of course, in Oz the use of magic does tend to blur the line between live and not live. --Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:38:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Michael T - My source assures me that this version of "Good Times" is not a hoax. I hope you will not find this out to your detriment. I didn't think I would have to convince anyone of this. The current alert was issued by the FCC. You do not have to download a program. It can infect your system through your e-mail. You stated >The usual claim is that simply reading a mail message with that subject will cause damage to your system, which is impossible). Want to bet your system on it? This issue about comic prices may reflect a current situation in the market. I have had a friend from Oregon visiting. He took six years of vintage Disney Comics into our local comic shop (I think 1945 to 51). They were in the very good to fine range. He was offered $500 for them. He went ballistic, loaded them up and left. Based on Overstreet and fairly strict grading they were worth much, much more. However, I think it is now a dealer's market for comics, in other words not a good time for collectors to sell. More warnings from the gloomy Bear. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:50:04 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests... Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <> Maybe he just didn't realize he could? After all, I doubt he'd seen a lion before, so he wouldn't have realized a talking lion was anything out of the ordinary... Danny Wall wrote: <> Others have noted that the obvious choices are Zeb Hugson or even Jim the Cab-Horse. But, as David noted, Jim would probably be dead by now, and even Zeb would be a centenarian. Does it *have* to be a Baum character? How about Thompson's Peter from Philadelphia? He seems even less popular (and moody) than Zeb would be... Tyler Jones wrote: <> Yes, but in my favorite Oz stories an explanation *is* given, as in LOST PRINCESS, where the characters can't use the Magic Picture or the Great Book of Records to find Ozma because Ugo has stolen both. Even the Magic Belt couldn't be used because Dorothy wasn't sure how to use it (so what if she *had* used it when she first got it in OZMA? I've had that same problem with computers). Similarly, many stories can use a sentence or two to explain why certain things didn't work (e.g., the references in the Great Book of Records are too vague). Peter Glassman wrote: <> What mistakes? And thanks for your explanation of the change of artists in DOT AND TOT OF MERRYLAND...just out of curiosity, what caused so much difficulty, when THE WIZARD OF OZ apparently presented no difficulty in reusing Denslow's illustrations? David Hulan wrote: <> So Shanower, in indicating both the regression and the lobotomy were reversed when he used Jenny in RUNAWAY, not (as I'd thought) so much improving on Neill but restoring his own wishes? What in Oz could have motivated this editor--some traditionalist (and very non-Ozzy) prejudice against Jenny's close association with the younger Number Nine? (It makes me wonder what s/he'd have made of Diane Duane's Nita and Kit, or for that matter of Dorothy and Button-Bright.) This definitely improves my opinion of all three (Shanower, Neill, and the Wizard) and makes me wish someone might reissue the original version of WONDER CITY. (And how long was that editor at R&L, anyway? Could s/he have also interpolated PATCHWORK GIRL's similarly having the Wizard lobotomize the Glass Cat ("I thank you," indeed!), which, as has been noted, Baum himself seemed to think better of...maybe because it wasn't Baum's idea to begin with? OzBucket wrote: <> No problem! And the series wasn't bad at all, and lacking only in two points, one unavoidable (Eric Shanower hadn't entered the comics field yet) and one in scripting. Of the four people who did produce it, three--editor Roy Thomas, original writer Nelson Bridwell, and artist Carol Lay--were all Oz fans, and all contributed superbly to the dialogue and plotting. The odd man out was scripter Joey Cavalieri, who essentially became involved mostly because he knew people, not because he was that appropriate nor (IMHO) that good. Alas, he's also the only one still involved with mainstream comics these days...would you believe he's now editor of the Superman comics? (He was the one who tossed in highly inappropriate MGM-style dialogue from time to time.) Robin Olderman wrote: <> I'm inclined to go along with David on that and attribute it to Becky Klein's influence (even if GLASS CAT isn't an FF book--neither are Eric's, for that matter). It's a lot more practical in many situations, such as when Dorothy grew temporary wings in WICKED WITCH. The T-shirt Shanower gave her could simply be moved aside, whereas her traditional dress would've had to be torn up the back, hardly appropriate to the dignity of a Princess of Oz (or bunched up above her wings, which would have been even less so). And he was right...if Ozites under Neill could keep up with outside fashions to an extent, why not now? Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:06:38 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-10-96 What is it with this digest? People start discussing "Lost in Space", two days later I see the show on T.V. for the first time ever. Dave mentions "Enchanted April" (which I had seen before), and that evening the movie is on T.V. here. Then you started discussing Marilyn vos Savant, of whom I'd never heard before, and I come home today and see her photograph on the cover of "Skeptical Inquirer" (my mother subscribes). I agree, she is very pretty. Doesn't "Savant" actually mean "wise"? BTW, David, the only reason Baum is considered a Jewish name is because so many American Jews came from Germany or had German or eastern-European ancestors. Speaking of German/Jewish names, allow me to include a Non Ozzy joke: A Chinese man and a Jew are sitting on a bench. All of the sudden the Jew leans over and slaps the Chinese man across the face. "what was that for?" says the suprised Chinese man. "That was for Pearl Harbor," replies the Jew. "But the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, not the Chinese!" cries the Chinese man. "Ach," says the Jew, "Chinese, Japanese, what's the difference?" a few minutes later, all of the sudden, the Chinese man leans over and slaps the Jew. "what was that for?" asks the Jew. "That was for the Titanic," says the Chinese man. "Iceberg, Goldberg, what's the difference!" Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:11:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-96 > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 > > chris (at least i think it was chris) not trying to start a flame war > sorry but i have lived in lansing michigan and new orleans and have > visted all over and have always been able to find oz comics and books have > you checked outside the area you are in as i siad a shop in your state > should have them and if you need any just let me know i can point you in > directions to find them i can name about 10 shops just here in michigan > alone where you can get them Mark, maybe you could pick up a few sets, then sell them at cost to Oz-comic-starved Oz fans around the country? > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digests since 06-13-96 > > I'll find out about that next year, since the Ozmopolitan is > going to be at a resort in the woods then. Where will this be, then? (A state, at least======================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 20, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:27:29 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Rosicrucians and Tik-Tok > Subject: Today's Growls > > Michael T - My source assures me that this version of "Good Times" is not a > hoax. I hope you will not find this out to your detriment. I didn't think I > would have to convince anyone of this. The current alert was issued by the FCC. > You do not have to download a program. It can infect your system through your > e-mail. If you want to be cautious, More power to you. Did you acutally investigate this claim? Checking with the FCC (last time I checked) says that 1) They never issued such a warning, it is a hoax and 2) It's a hoax that has been going around for some five years. This may have changed. > > You stated >The usual claim is that simply reading a mail message with that > subject will cause damage to your system, which is impossible). > > Want to bet your system on it? Sure. I back up every day. Don't you? Re:Tik-Tok's memory: HARD DRIVE? Doesn't anybody remember core memory any more? You couldn't kill that with just a mere turning off the power....Anyway, I thought the original (Melody's?) question was more of "Why does he remember things he see/hears when he runs down?" If that's the case, yes, he would need to have active "circuitry" running all the time, in a scientific world. For what it's worth department: The Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis (AMORC, Rosicrucians) was founded in 1915 by H. Spencer Lewis. (although he took the _name_ from a seventeenth century) Since LFB died in 1919 (?), it doesn't seem likely that he was a Rosicrucian, but if he were, it was only in the last years of his life. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:32:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Tik-Tok's Memory 1) Bruce, all of Baum's work is now PD. You can use his characters in your own work with impunity. 2) Rich and Danny, Peter was indeed invited to live in Oz, but he didn't accept because of loyalty to his grandfather. Also, Peter is not PD. 3) Eric, considering the complexity of the human brain and that Tik-Tok has a comparable mind, I would estimate that Tik-Tok's memory--in theory there is no difference between RAM, ROM, or drives of any kind--is at least several hundred thousand gigabytes (100,000,000,000 simulated neurons * several kilobytes of data needed to simulate each). Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 15:25:38 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz The 1997 Ozmopolitan Convention is tentitively scheduled for Southern Wisconsin. I am not sure of the resort but it sounded something like Long Lake or Lake Long (It won out over French Lick in southern Indiana). 1998 may be at Starved Rock State Park in northern Illinois. Rich M.: To find all of the valuable typographical errors (and other first edition points) get a copy of _Bibliographia Oziana_ (revised edition), one of the most valuable things IWOC has published; Jenny Jump was not *lobotimized* in _Wonder City_. Some antisocial character traits like bad temper, envy, and (excessive) amibition were removed from her without damaging the ego-structure. The Wizard achieved this by extraction (not surgury) although in more civilized countries long periods of counseling would be required. Reading the original version of _Wonder City_ would only increase the reader's appreciation of the work that the editor did to improve a rather thin story. The book as published is far better than Neill's original. It should be noted that this was not done behind Neill's back or ovewr his head. He probably worked with the editor to improve the text. I have been told Neill's next book, _Scalawagons_ , is much closer to his MS (which I have not seen). Mike T., don't malign an editor until you have walked in her shoes for a mile. Tyler: I know there are many explanations of Eureka's return to Oz (probably the most elaborate one is in Laumer's _The Careless Kangaroo of Oz_ which includes the Shaggy Man, the original owner of the Love Magnet, Polychrome and Almira Gulch in the story). Captain Nemo: All ouf the Baum Oz books, and all of his non-Oz books as well, are out of copyright. BTW: I am going to need a review of OZ-STORY No. 2. (Contact me at steller@pittstate.edu) Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:28:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 tyler well you gotta keepem guessing and occasonally one slips out after so much text is wrote everyone else on the oz comics i am more then happy to search for these for folks im already looking for a set for one person on here but havent had time to stop at any of the 6 shops within a half hour from here im doing physical therapy for my ankle 3 times a week and my mom is on kemo no dont want no pity notes back im just letting you know now on the oz books im pretty sure oz 16 is out i just havent got it yet if you need any of these oz books by calaber i know i can get them locally but your not jus t missing what you said your also misssing oz 0 and the 4 one shot issues also the romance in oz as for the oz squad this one has been my bane i do not have a full set of this im more then happy to help out here matter of fact if you want to do mail order for the oz comics directl i can give you some shops numbers folks to call as for 600 dollars for walt disney books maybe this will help you understand while the said books maybe worth lets say 1200.00 apiece for 4 books for a total of 4800.00 dollars you have to remember some things while disney books are old and collectable (like the donald duck ones for the artist barks) the shop first has ot think one can i resell these and to how long will they sit 3 how much can i really get for them most dealers give 1/4th of what a book is worth and a third in trade because they have to make their money to you can easily put a ad in a great trade for the comics industgry called the buyers guide and sell them yoruself you will make alot more money that waay hugs anthonyv an pyre ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:31:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Chris: I believe everybody got te digest late that day, as Dave was unable to send it out on time. This results in a little boredom early in the day for me, but that's OK. As for the Ozzy deaprtures in _Third Book_, there are those who view that story as non Historically Accurate, since Aunt Em and Uncle Henry knew of the existence of the Oz people even though they did not believe it years later. Also, the stories are not plausible for other reasons. Bruce Gray: Peter Glassman knows which books/characters are and are not copyrighted, but you seem to be asking for some big central office that keeps track of all copyrights. There must be such a place, but I do not know of it. As far as I know, ALL Baum books and characters are in Public Domain. Also, I believe that the last five FF books by Thompson and their major characters are also PD. Gili and Rich: The idea that Toto did not know he could speak is a probable one, although Billina and Eureka spoke the first time they entered fairyland with no particular effort. Jim the Cab-Horse required some encouragement before he spoke. Also, Dorothy mentioned (In _Tik-Tok_, I think), that Toto did not need to speak, since he was able to communicate all wants to Dorothy by simple means. Dave and Rich: True, explanations of why certain magic can't/won't help fills out the story, but the problem is that there is now so much magical material available that a prolonged discussion of why each and every item was not available would be quite long and boring. The "Oz Round Table", hosted by Ozma Ozma (checking her list): Okay, we've already explained why 46 of our magic items could not have helped in our latest adventure. Who wants to tackle number 47? Trot (Raising her hand): Couldn't we have just used the Wishing Emeralds in the cave? Ozma: Hmmm, I'll have to refer that one to the Professor. Wogglebug: It is obvious to even the uninitiate that the magico-active material composing the outer sheathing substance of the area emanated short, highly focused bursts of energy of such a high frequency as to render any jewel-based magic inoperative and also served to obfuscate the fact that other wishing magic could be implemented in lieu of the heretofore mentioned emeralds. Trot: Uh, thanks, I guess. Rich: Didn't the Wizard, towards the end of _Patchwork Girl_, mention something about giving Bungle brains to match her "station in life" or something like that? In fact, I even recall Bungle asking Pipt to do that for her. I can't go to my books directly, since I am at work. Aaron: From what I remember of _Tin Woodman_, the little Pink Bear can only do two things: Tell us where people/things are, and tell us what has transpired in the past. As happens so often, he could have powers that we do not know of yet, but the King of Bear Center states quite clearly that he cannot see into the future. Dave: I was going to comment on the record-setting number of Ozzies, but you beat me to it. Good to see that we have finally arrived at 120. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:20:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for digest (as usual...) > > So far, Robin has stated online > that she'll be at Winkie. So will Rinny and I. Will the three of us be alone? Lynn and Patrick have me running around doing so much already that even if I hadn't already paid for the con and my plane ticket, I wouldn't have much choice. Not that there's much that could keep me away anyway... > From: TMP_HARKINS@DIRAC.PHYSICS.JMU.EDU > Subject: For Ozzy Digest > > How does one -know- what is in Public Domain (PD) and what isn't? > How does one -know- who is in PD and who isn't? Ask a copyright lawyer. But my understanding is, once a character is introduced, and once that book in which he or she is introduced becomes public domain, he or she or it is fair game. > Which L. Frank Baum > books are in PD? I am primarily interested in the "Oz" books, but > I am also interested in the book he wrote about the related areas > around Oz (such as D&T in Merryland, etc.). Are there any others > in PD other than L Frank Baum? Help! I'm begging here! :^) All of Baum's books are in public domain. They were all first published over seventy-five years ago. As for other authors, due to nobody noticing Thompson's last five books ("wishing Horse" to "Ozoplaning") all slipped into public domain, and all of Jack Snow's are. All the other books are still under copyright. > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-96 > > Beach Blanket Babyloz: Who is printing this? I didn't catch the info. Chris, through Buckethead. > Rinny: I remember your story about Ozma's hair color. I thought, and > still think, you'd come up with a very clever solution to an Oz mystery. Possibly appearing in a future edition of "Oziana"? I remember it being very short, it would fit in nicely somewhere there's a hole that needs to be filled... > From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-96 > > > You haven't tried to buy older, vintage Oz books lately, have you? There > > are some MAJOR rip-off artists out there... > oh trust me i know about rippoffs on the vintage oz books Of course (free plug), Herm Bieber is NOT one of them, his prices are TERRIFIC! (Ooh, here's an idea, Herm! In my web page, shall I have an automatically-e-mail-you button for those interested in buying vintage Oz books, so they can contact you directly? Herm? You are still reading this, aren't you?) > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Eric and Malcom: > My page, of course, does not list the FF separately. They are mixed in > with the rest of the HACC, but Eric and Dave have lists of just the FF > so you will never lose your way. I haven't looked for a while, but I still say that the FF needs to be differentiated in some way, such as boldfacing the titles, just because they ARE the FF and the books all the rest of them have sprung from. > Eric and Danny: > Making up a character is a good way to go for several reasons. Among them > are 1) this person is YOUR creation, your own special contribution to Oz and > 2) the character comes with no preconceptions, either for you, the author or > us the readers. Perhaps what Danny needs to do is write a short Oz story in which his new character (if he uses one) first goes to Oz, which then becomes the opening chpater of his book... > Steve T: > David Hulan once theorized that Eureka sneaked (or is that snuck?) along > with the party in _Road_ and when she was discovered in Oz, they decided to > keep her around. Of course, she was not mentioned in _Emerald City_, but > that does not mean that she was not there. Or a few days after arriving in Oz for good, Dorothy suddenly remembered, "Oh, shoot, we forgot to bring Eureka! Ozma, can we use the Magic Belt and bring her here?" and Ozma, remembering the piglet incident in "Dorothy and the Wizard," laid down a few ground rules before saying yes... > Chris: > As for sending an updated catalog without having to retype the whole thing, > AOL may allow you to send a text file as e-mail. Also, you could keep the > catalog in electronic form, copy the whole thing onto the clipboard, and > then paste it into the mailbox area. I've said it before and I'll say it > again: If you had a PC with CompuServe, you could do it very easily and > very quickly. Or you can save it as a text file and, depending on what kind of terminal program you're using, just upload it every month. It's not too tough, actually. > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests... > > Others have noted that the obvious choices are Zeb Hugson or even Jim the > Cab-Horse. But, as David noted, Jim would probably be dead by now, and even > Zeb would be a centenarian. Does it *have* to be a Baum character? How about > Thompson's Peter from Philadelphia? He seems even less popular (and moody) > than Zeb would be... But he's still under copyright, and will be for some time... > From: jvandern@neosoft.com (Jim Vander Noot) > Subject: Ozmopolitan Convention > > By the > way, we'll be getting our own domain name soon and will post the info when > availble. WOO-HOO! I just hope it's something that makes sense, with "Oz" in there somewhere, and not something incomprehensible to the public-at-large like IWOC. > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > Subject: ILLing magazine articles > > 1) Eric, when ILLing magazine articles, in my experience they never send > the magazine. What they do is Xerox the article and send you the copy. Okay, whatever. I just think it's still not a big or expensive deal to just buy "Best of the Bugle" volume 1 if you're really that interested in reading "A Murder in Oz." > From: "Stephen J. Teller" > Subject: Oz > > David Hulan: > I have also read the original version of _Wonder City_. It is true that > the Ozlection action is not in it, nor is Ozma's birthday party. However > it does include Jenny's regression of age, if not the *lobotiziation*. > There are many varients from the published text, and Jenny is in places > even more unpleasent than in the final version. I have been contemplating > an article of the *ur-text* of _Wonder City_ but have not > written it. Write it, write it! This would be GREAT in the "Bugle." (Maybe Eric Shanower can write a piece for that issue about editing "Runaway," too.) > BTW I like _Seven Blue Mountains Book 2_ even more than book 1. Is volume 2 out now ALREADY??? I have GOT to get cracking... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > OZMA ON THE BEACH: > Eric: > >And I don't think, even if she asked me very nicely, that I could get the > >nerve up to rub suntan lotion on her back... > > Dan: I wouldn't let you anyway! :) :) :) One reason I wouldn't do it, of course... > SPECIAL WORD FROM YOUR OZZY EDITOR: > We broke a new record today! We now have an unprecidented 120 people > (counting myself) on the Digest!!! ( I don't expect it to last, but there > it is for the moment... :) ) Yeah, it will probably go up again next week... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:53:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 Magic/Science: The Shaggy Man once said that magic and science were, essentially synonymous. I think the point was that magic was just unexplained science. I really want Tik-Tok to be magic, I guess. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:20:31 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest aol is having a lot of major problems with e-mail today. I went into their (thankfully free) Online help room, and everyone and his dog was having the same problem. For this reason, I do not know how much of this will reach Dave, or when. Okay, enough about the bloomin' Oz Wonderland War. I think I will probably put it in le auction next month and let the Club unload it for some astronomical price that none of us (least of all me) will ever believe. For whover asked about Pornocopia, yeah. It's buried in that storage unit somplace. IMHO, it is Piers' LEAST pornographic story of all time (yes, even beating out Balook! It is a sophomoric story that revolves around smegma, and contains no sex at all! So what's the big deal, anyway? My guess is that the porn label was a cheap advertising ploy). Probably his most original story, too. I do not remember what I paid for it, but it is hardback w/dj. BTW, I have seen an edition of Milne's Once on a Time where a similar advertising ploy was used: the cover making it sound like a porn book, which it is NOT. As for Beach Blanket BabylOz, it is not porn, either. Melody is finishing up a color cover for it, in addition to her drawing for Thorns & Private Files. In other words, no. It will not be at Winkie. You will not get to see who rubs suntan oil on Ozma's back just yet (and you guys accuse Pornocopia of being dirty? She's a little girl, for crying out loud!). However, Fred Otto's Lost Emeralds book will be making its first official Winkie appearance. Last year, it was there only in proof-form. It was not very obvious alongside of Nitch/Madden's $50.00 poetry (Oziads) book, though. Despite the fact his was in even less-finished form... Robin.. I had not planned on carrying any of those little activity books along. They are kinda old news to my way of thinking, and who supports Ozmite Clubs any more (well, aside from me and probably Eric G...). But I could probably bring one if you really wanted it. I was planning to bring several Lost Emeralds anyway. I plan to take one or two Disenchanted Princess books to sell there, too. Maybe three... Eric G.. You have an updated list now. I am happy to bring as much of the new stuff as I can, but you must understand that not all of the books are mailed from here. Some go out from other states, and I do not have any copies to take. I am the author of Marvelous Monkeys, for example, but I do not have any copies here. If you want that one, you have to order it. If you want to make the whole thing easier on me, just send an order as though there were no Con. I may still fill a good portion of the order in person, if I think you'll get any of your books quicker. Robin: It's Rinny. I'm glad you think my story about Ozma's hair color is creative. Probably she can make her hair any color she wants it to be. ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 21, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 06:40:19 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest Re: The Ozma bathing suit discussion... Does anyone else know that Eric Shanower has already portrayed Ozma in a bathing suit? The deliniation appears in AMAZING HEROES #115, April 15, 1987, p. 42 (for bibliographers). The entire illustration shows the Scarecrow (in polka-dot one-piece, carrying/wearing a rubber duck safety ring), Toto (wearing neither suit nor safety device), Dot (one-piece black suit & flipflops), the Tin Woodman (one-piece stripes, carrying beach ball), & the Queen herself in a two-piece (words fail me, but "Thong" comes to mind) decorated with a small tasteful crown on the bottom half. They are apparently heading for an outing at Lake Quad. The drawing is B&W (as is the whole magazine) or I'd give more details... [N.B.: Dave--lPlease let me know if I've done this right--still very new to this posting business... --Thanks, Ken] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 00:57:54 -0700 From: MALCOLM BARKER Subject: OZ! I now hove all but 3 of L Frank Baum's original "canon" Oz books, reading about a book a day, many thanks to Borders books and Project Guttenberg and Del Rey/International Oz club! Will get the rest of the 26 books as I can find 'em when I finish these. Thanks, Malcolm ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 09:17:14 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-20-96 S. Teller: > [Neill] probably worked with the editor to improve the text. I have > been told Neill's next book, _Scalawagons_ , is much closer to his MS > (which I have not seen). > Mike T., don't malign an editor until you have walked in her shoes for > a mile. Ummmm, excuse me?? I never made any comment about any editor (except maybe for computer text editors). I assume you're talkiong here about the Neill re-write issue, which I made no comment upon, knowing nothing about it. As usual with this digest (and why does this problem seem only endemic to THIS digest?), if you're going to start flaming, make sure you point the flame-thrower at the right target first! --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, joining the mis-flamed ranks of Eric, Dave, etc. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:12:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-20-96 The Ozmopolitan Convention will probably be held at Lake Lawn next year. It's on Lake Delavan, near Lake Geneva. It's gorgeous. A bit more expensive than what we're used to, but even the O'Hare hotel has raised its rates, so it looks like were stuck no matter where we go. We're looking into Starved Rock for '98. It's a rustic retreat run by the state of Illinois...kinda like Asilomar. Sounds good! Toto's speaking ability: Ozma tells Dorothy:"...while he knows everything that is said to him he prefers not to talk." "'Goodness me!' exclaimed Dorothy. 'I never s'pected Toto was fooling me all this time.'" She calls Toto to her. "'See here, sir!' she continued, addressing the dog,'I've just learned, for the first time, that you can say words--if you want to. Don't you want to, Toto?'" "'Woof!' said Toto, and that meant 'no.'" "....Just one word, Toto--and then you may run away." After her coaxing him, he finally says "All right. Here I go!" and darts away. All indications are that he always knew he could talk in Oz and chose not to. Eric:Um, if you're gonna recommend booksellers, I'm cheaper than most retailers who have store maintenance to cope with. No one can beat Herm: he has no shop overhead to worry about, but I come close! And for the utterly gorgeous stuff, BoW can't be beat. Rinny: I don't know where the Ozma/hair story is anymore. Gimme another copy at Winkies? Chris: I want Beach Blanket Babyloz and assume you'll let us all know when it's ready. People, it's a very good story, and we know it'll look great with Melody's illustrations. [End of "plug."] [Begin new "plug] OZIANA will be out soon. Very good issue. Buy it! It has a sequel to SPEEDY IN OZ and is illustrated wonderfully well by our own Ken Cope. You'll be blown away by his illos, y'all! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:22:15 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: Vintage Oz Books (For Digest) >From: Eric Gjovaag >Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 > >> From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski >> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-96 >> >> > You haven't tried to buy older, vintage Oz books lately, have you? There >> > are some MAJOR rip-off artists out there... >> oh trust me i know about rippoffs on the vintage oz books > >Of course (free plug), Herm Bieber is NOT one of them, his prices are >TERRIFIC! Being a fairly recent Oz collector, I can with some level of confidence say that a highly inflationary market is the best thing for both old collectors, new collectors, and sellers. Simply stated, the high price that these books command is the only thing getting the truly rare books into the marketplace. Also, unless you have an "in" with one or more active dealers (BTW: Robin has been very kind to me), the high price of a book is the only thing that keeps it on the store shelf long enough that you'll have a chance of buying it. You just need to decide if you want the book $100 or $1000 more than the collector that walked into the store ahead of you. Personally, I'd rather have a chance at buying a rare book at a ridiculous price, than to have a dealer tell me they "just sold one" for a great price. Finally, an active market makes it easier to sell your old books as you upgrade your collection. As for being "ripped off", its an unfortunate truth that this tends to happen, even when both buyer and seller are trying to be ethical. Ignorance of what you're buying is almost always the cause (and don't I know it). You have a couple choices here: 1. Deal only with dealers you trust, that charge a fair price for their books, and know the books they are selling. 2. Get to know the books yourself. I've got my best deals from dealers who didn't know what they had, and my worst deals when I wasn't sure what I was buying. When I know the book, I can get a feeling for its condition and scarcity, and then make a value judgement on the price. Between the "deals" and the "value judgements", I had to built my collection on the latter. Although the screaming bargains are out there, they're not common enough to build a collection, and if you aren't an active collector, you won't recognize the bargains. Bottom line is that I have never regretted the purchase of any of my fine rare books, even when I thought they were priced too high. On the other hand, I've regretted some of the "bargains" plenty. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-20-96 > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Rich: > Didn't the Wizard, towards the end of _Patchwork Girl_, mention something > about giving Bungle brains to match her "station in life" or something like > that? In fact, I even recall Bungle asking Pipt to do that for her. > > I can't go to my books directly, since I am at work. Okay, let me take a look here: "The Glass Cat, which Dr. Pipt lawlessly made," continued the Wizard, "is a pretty cat, but its pink brains made it so conceited that it was a disagreeable companion to everyone. So the other day I took away the pink brains and replaced them with transparent ones, and now the Galss Cat is so modest and well behaved that Ozma has decided to keep her in the palace as a pet." "I thank you," said the cat, in a soft voice. [from "The Patchwork Girl of Oz," pp. 336-338] I don't recall her ever regaining her pink brains in the books, but she obviously did, because they're there again in "Magic," if not sooner. > Aaron: > From what I remember of _Tin Woodman_, the little Pink Bear can only do > two things... The Little Pink Bear was in "Lost Princess." > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for digest > > Eric G.. You have an updated list now. I am happy to bring as much of the new > stuff as I can... Chris, my request to you was made by private e-mail, just to you. This should be a matter between you and me, and not aired for the entire Digest. If you have a specific reply to make to me when I send it to you and you alone, send it to me only, please. You can summarize general points here all you like, but what you have doen violates netiquette, and I'm just glad I didn't say anything that required a truly private reply, else I would be afraid that it would have shown up here! --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 12:10:25 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digests 6/18-20/96 The Digests of the 18th and 19th refused to download when they arrived, but Dave kindly re-sent them to me and they worked OK today. Thanks, Dave! 6/18: Robin: I'd have braved the line dancing, but I was too tired to make it by the time the program was over. I'm a habitually early-to-bed/rise person, and by 11:00 I tend to wilt. So I went up to bed. 6/19: Chris: I'd love to be at Winkie, but the dibs aren't in tune this year. Maybe next year I'll be able to make more than one of the conventions. Tyler: Certainly there are ways Zeb could be made the villain of Danny's piece, but it would also require a complete character transplant, since he's depicted as being quite good throughout DOTWIZ. (Maybe a bit lazy, but not more than most kids his apparent age - I picture him as about 12 or 13.) If he wants to use a Baum character I still favor the First and Foremost Phanfasm - who lost all memory of his magic when he drank from the Forbidden Fountain, and was therefore exiled from Mt. Phantastico to our world by those Phanfasms who weren't part of his army. But he remembers the beautiful country he experienced so briefly after drinking from the fountain, and longs to return to it...and over the years begins to learn some new magic... Sure, I'll do a review of DISENCHANTED PRINCESS for your Web page, if you want me to. It'll probably be a couple or three weeks before I get to it, but I will. AOL lets you attach files to your E-mail. I've never done it, but I assume it works OK. For the purpose of repeating the BEOO list on a monthly basis, though, I think it would be simpler for Dave if Chris just maintained the listing as a separate text file and used the clipboard to copy it and paste it into the "Compose Mail" window. That I have done often and know it works very well, using a Mac and AOL. Gili: Of course the reason why "Baum" is a fairly common Jewish name is that many American Jews came from Germany or (more commonly) the old Austro-Hugarian Empire, where they were assigned names that usually were of German origin. But I was just mentioning it because the only Baums I happen to know personally are all Jewish, though L. Frank wasn't. Incidentally, my curiosity on one point was satisfied at Ozmopolitan when I heard Ozma Baum Mantele, L. Frank's granddaughter, talking about the family - they pronounce the name in the English style ("Bawm"), rather than the German (with the vowel of "town"), which I've heard used (and which is how my friends named "Baum" pronounce it). Eric: The next Ozmopolitan, assuming the contract negotiations go OK, will be at a place called, if memory serves (and I've only heard it spoken; I've never seen it written), Lochlawn, on Lake Delevan, in Wisconsin near the Illinois line. It's close to Lake Geneva, which I can find on a map, though I can't find the other places. I see Ozma in very much the same kind of bathing suit that you describe - possibly with a kind of "scale" effect to the material. And although I can't imagine her asking me to rub suntan lotion on her back, I'd be happy to comply if she did... (Interesting question - do Ozites get sunburn? Especially Ozma?) Steve: All I can say is that Eric Shanower told me very specifically that Jenny was never regressed in age in Neill's original MS - that Neill kept her an older teen-ager throughout. Maybe he remembered incorrectly, or maybe he saw a different "original" MS than you did. Anyhow, he said that he made her a teen-ager again in RUNAWAY to restore Neill's original vision of the character. But I'd be very interested in reading an article about the differences between the ur-text and the published version of WC. And while I'm glad to know that you like SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS 2 even better than 1, not all of us get to read books before they're published... Dave: In one sense, editors have absolute control over what goes into the published version of a book - though if an author is popular enough, the editor's real power isn't as great as it is in theory. The author's only leverage is the ability to withdraw the book from that publisher if he doesn't like what an editor wants done to it. 6/20: Steve: Again, Shanower told me that Neill was very unhappy at the editing job that R&L did on WC. I've no personal knowledge on the subject, but he definitely said that. As to whether the story line in the published version was better than that in the MS or not, it may have been, but it was decidedly the worst in the entire FF anyhow. Imho. Tyler: As lots of others will probably point out, the Little Pink Bear is in LOST PRINCESS, not TIN WOODMAN. :-) Eric: It seems highly unlikely that Dorothy would have forgotten Eureka when she went back to Oz to stay. Makes much more sense to me that Eureka wasn't living with Dorothy by that time, though Dorothy didn't know what had happened to her. (If/when EUREKA IN OZ is published, you'll find out the details of my "solution". Though as we all agree, they're not binding on future authors, any more than I consider myself bound by Laumer.) No, volume 2 of SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS isn't out yet. Steve obviously got to read the MS. Chris: Ozma is described as being 14 or 15, which is not such a "little girl" that the thought of someone rubbing suntan oil on her back seems "dirty" to me. I mean, we're not talking about rubbing it on her legs, even. Backs are about the least sexual parts of the anatomy. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:46:32 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest replies I've been away from the digest for a couple of days, so I apologize in advance if this post seems long. . . First off, someone mentioned (a long time ago) a "trick" Disney question asking which animated film took place mostly in China (Answer-- Aladdin, inasmuch as its original story took place in China) Keep your eyes open, then, when your question will lose significance, for a future Disney film will be "The Legend of Fu Malan" a Chinese story based on a Joan-of-Arc type character. Now, off to Oz! Jim and Zeb-- Of course! A quick look through my books could have pointed this out to me, thanks to all who responded. Right away, I could picture Zeb as a misguided villan, getting along in years, and yearning to get back to Oz to halt or revert his old age. So much so, in fact, that he would be willing to chase Button Bright and initiate all kinds of trouble. Perhaps Jim could be in it as well, but it would be hard to have him be a villan in America. . . Button Bright-- "Hmmm, it seems this old horse has been stalking me for the past three blocks. . ." New vs Old characters-- Tyler, and others, offered the suggestion to use an original character as my villan. Usually, I never have a problem with this! My first inclination, however, is to use established characters. I really can't explain it, sorry. I suppose that I love certain characters so much, that I can't help but create my own situations and see how they handle it. Not to slight anyone who doesn't do this, but I always feel that it takes much more genius to work within established characters and push their abilities or situations and explore them in increasingly different ways. Sometimes, (again, only sometimes) it seems that original characters become a cop-out for lazy authors, ("I guess I need this type of person, let me just create it") or seem to be put in to boost the authors ego ("look, I'm a part of this world now!") I have not read many original Oz books, (Rest assured, Ozzy authors, my first ones to seek out will be David's, Eric's, Melody's, and Buckethead's) But look at the inundation of Star Wars original authors out there. It seems that most of their original characters are in there to create what I call the Dramatic Tension (being able to really play around with a character, something you can't do with established characters like Luke or HanSolo) yet, these authors DON'T put these characters through the wringer, so it's almost like, what's the point? Well, I digress. I hope making Zeb a villan will not cause too much an uproar like, I dunno, making a love intrest for Ozma or something. I finished Wonder City a few days ago, maybe time for a few Moppets and Spoilers tomorrow! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:28:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-20-96 ozbucket it was me who wanted that pornacopia dont care if its porn or not just that its piers and i want it is all how much would you be wanting for it? hugs anthonyv an pyre ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest To: Dave Hardenbrook Message-id: Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Steve: It's interesting that you put the word "excessive" in parentheses when you mentioned the Wizard's operation on Jenny Jump. It was clear to me from the text that the Wizard was removing *ALL* of Jenny's ambition in order to make her content in the simple life that had been chosen for her. Eric: Well, for each book in the HACC, I put a category and one of them if FF, but of course this does not stand out too well. I have an idea that WILL make them stand out, but I will need a little time to put it together. Your possibility aout Eureka is the most likely and the easiest to explain. Of course, March Laumer's story was a lot of fun to read... The Oz Web Site: how about wizardofoz.com or something similar? Chris: This was discussed on the digest before you came on board, but Baum himself described Ozma as being 14 or 15, hardly a "little girl". --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 14:37:42 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Oz anthony im only missing oz 12 and anynumber over 15 i have o and the four others Tyler: Yes, the Wizard had given Bungle non-Pink brains in _Patchwork Girl_ and it humbly thanked him. But in later books the brains were once again pink (like Eureka's fur) and Bungle's pride was restored. The Little Pink Bear can answer *any* question about what is, but questions about things that haven't happened yet are outside its field. Aaron: I just checked, and The Best of the Baum Bugle #1 is $2.00. Buy it already! Eric: No, Seven Blue Mountains 2 is not out yet. Melody is constantly rewriting it. Probably the version I read several years ago has been completely changed. If everyone buys _The Disenchanted Princess of Oz_ we may see _The Flying Sorcerer of Oz_ (at least that was the title when I first got it, _Disenchanted Princess_ was called _Tippetarius_ ). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 16:05:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Mr. Ozbucket - What should I conclude? You do not take orders via INTERNET? You didn't get my order/request for info? Please advise. In re Pornocopia - I have to admit I have a copy. It was $19.95 new in hard back. It is a small book of 187 pages. I picked it up used at half price. IIRC, in this age it would probably only be considered bawdy. I wouldn't recommend it if you are missing any Oz books, etc. Non-gloomy regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:24:48 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: for digest Rinny's story about Ozma's hair would be in CA if it still exists. We are so good about storing things where we can't get at them! We will be able to look for it that week prior to Winkie, though. If we find it, we can talk about its going into Oziana. I must apologize to Eric G. for putting any personal messages to him on the digest where everybody else has to see them whether interested or not. I know that this is not acceptable, and I am sorry, Eric, that I did it. I will never do it again. By the way, how do you know my mother? I am told by Theo Carson, Club Treasurer, that the 1997 Oz Club calendars (Dragons of Oz) will be printed next week, and that NO Club stuff was sold at the Con due to bad organizing. The main hold-up for the calendar was that Fred had told them to go ahead and print it, but someone else said to hold it up until the Convention dates for '97 were set. I was rather hurt by this news, but at least there is some hope that it will be at Winkie and Munchkin. I am still anxious to hear from any artists who want to contribute to the 1998 (hopefully more on-time) Club calendar (The Beautiful Villains of Oz). I already have an absolutely beautiful centerfold, but nothing else! Dave is working on something, and I assume that Melody will get to it whenever I stop piling illustration work on her. Any other artists online? For all it may be worth, I hope that you all will want a 1997 one anyway. It doesn't actually start 'til January, so you can still get yours in time to use it. You can also get back issues of the 1996 calendar, The Unlikely Heroes of Oz, from the Club. I was flattered to see that Disney borrowed the title in a recent documentary/commercial for its Hunchback: Disney's Most Unlikely Heroes, which was shown on ABC. I know that we had lots of other things to tell you about, but we never write them down in order to remember them. Hence, I guess that's it for today. See ya. ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 20-Jun-96 19:31:30 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DAN SNEAKS BACK INTO DISCUSSION: Danny ( not Ozma's Dan; the one on the Digest :) ) wrote: >I hope making Zeb a villan will not cause too much an >uproar like, I dunno, making a love intrest for Ozma or something. I know I promised not to talk about Dan in regards to his "role" in my _Fairy Princess of Oz_ again, but the messages of today seem to call for his coming out of the woodwork, at least for a moment... David H. wrote: >Ozma is described as being 14 or 15, which is not such a "little girl" that >the thought of someone rubbing suntan oil on her back seems "dirty" to me Of course, some Oz authors assert ( or maybe "preach" is a better word :) ) that Ozma *is* a "little girl" and always will be (most conspicuously Thompson in _Kabumpo_ and Gil S. Joel in _Healing Power_). Which leads to this MOPPeT of mine, which is the premise of _Fairy Princess_: When R.P. Thompson first became Royal Historian, she (and I wonder of this may be actually true!) received letters from children asking her to give Ozma a handsome prince; but Thompson felt uncomfortable with this, as she saw Ozma as a "little girl" (even though Baum said Ozma was in her teens), and so she decided to "set the children straight" about the prospects of Ozma having a beau, hence Thompson's little Sermon on the Mount in _Kabumpo_. But Ozma in fact *is* open to loving someone, but there is the threat of "disapproval" (mastery of understatement) from folks like Lurline and Tititi-Hoochoo should Ozma ever in fact love someone, so the Oz people decided to perpetuate Thompson's misconception and make everyone think Ozma *is* a "little girl", just to qualm the wrath of the "Ultra-Fairies". But the charade comes crashing down when Dan comes into Ozma's life... End MOPPeT. And because Ozma and Dan's relationship is still officially a non-issue on this Digest, all replies to what I've just said (the flames in particular!) will be considered private messages and will NOT be printed in the Digest. (P.S. I *do* find it interesting that there's all this talk about Ozma in a bathing suit and rubbing suntan lotion onto her back and no one thinks anything of it, but I talk of giving Ozma a prince, and half the Digest members call for either burning me at the stake or splattering Ozma's beau with an oozie!) (P.P.S. Danny, write your story, make the story the way *YOU* want it, and don't worry about what others say...I'm afraid the reality is that *ANY* original idea is going to get flamed.) DIGEST MEMBERSHIP: The membership has gone up again (Thanks for your optimism that that would be what happen, Eric! :) )...An dnow, there is at last a member of the Digest besides me who is on Delphi! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 22, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 00:54:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Zeb Returns to Oz? 1) Danny, I like the idea of Zeb as a villian, though if you want to have Jim in it you're going to have to have it significantly before the present; I don't think horses live as long as humans do. Barry, it seems, wants to have Jim show up in something called The Nine Tiny Piglets of Oz (probably something around book 4 or 5 in Lurline's Machine), based on a theory of his that beings who travel to fairylands once are prone to travel there more than once (as happened to Dorothy, the Wizard, Trot, Cap'n Bill, and Button-Bright) and with an inference that he's been wandering in fairylands for decades. Getting back to the original topic, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch on his character, assuming that he were desperate enough. 2) Since it seems everyone is throwing in their two cents on the idea of Ozma in a bathing suit, I might as well throw in my own thoughts on the subject: Somehow I can't imagine it. It doesn't seem right for a ruler. For comparison, can anyone ever remember seeing, live or via the media, the ruler of a country in a bathing suit? (Come to think of it, the idea of Clinton in a bathing suit is really scary...) 3) Dave wrote: >(P.P.S. Danny, write your story, make the story the way *YOU* want it, > and don't worry about what others say...I'm afraid the reality is that > *ANY* original idea is going to get flamed.) I must agree! I will not be satisfied unless someone says, "You had WHAT happen to Uptown in The Woozy of Oz!?" Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:37:40 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-96 Hi Digest! Unprecedented computer fuddles have kept me from reading the digest fro three days in a row ... well, maybe not unprecedented, this has happened before! I guess some pets are more talkative than others. I think I can usually interpret what my cats are trying to communicate, with reasonable accuracy - just as Dorothy understood Toto. But sometimes this is not enough. When I moved my litttler cat with me to Tel-Aviv, she spent the first two days with her front paws on the the windowsill, staring out into the new street with a look of wild excitement on her face. every few minutes she would rush up to me, and gibber and babble away in meowimese. I knew she was reporting to me about what she had seen and how this compared to Jerusalem and how she felt about it - but I couldn't understand the specifics! maybe Toto is a canine Unc Nunkie. Collectable prices are odd things. Last summer I brought some stuff with me from Israel for the winkie auction, and was amazed at how much most of the items fetched. It's a matter of supply and demand, but the differences can be dramatic:for instance, I got three copies of an Ozzy poster for free from a ticket stand in Jerusalem - one of them sold at the auction for $160 dollars. It wasn't even a particularly great-looking poster. That's why, if you want any Ozzy merchandise from Israel, you'll do a lot better trading with me than buying it at an auction ... a shameless plug there, but absolutely true, too. Bye now! Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:39:30 -0400 From: DIXNAM@aol.com Subject: Recent Digests Dave: Do I detect negative ions in the air surrounding today's Digest? Or is it just the "official" arrival of Summer? Everyone: Chris D. mentioned recently that he would be taking a few copies of Melody Grandy's Disenchanted Princess of Oz and Fred Otto's Lost Emeralds of Oz to Winkie con, and I urge those of you attending, to acquire copies of both, if you haven't already done so. IMHO they are two of the most attractive, and well written, of Buckethead's publications that I have read thus far! (:-D Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:44:58 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-96 Ken: Sounds like an interesting illustration in that AMAZING HEROES. Too bad I'm unlikely ever to see it... One wonders, though, what the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman are doing in bathing suits, since they certainly can't be planning on entering the water! Eric: I don't recall the Glass Cat being mentioned between PATCHWORK GIRL and MAGIC. For that matter, I don't think Eureka was, either. If they were, it was only in the context of the party for Inga and Rinkitink, or the Glass Cat might have been with one of the search parties in LOST PRINCESS. But I don't think so in either case. Bungle appeared, and Eureka was mentioned, in GLINDA as well, and then I think both disappeared for the rest of the FF; certainly neither had a significant role after GLINDA. (Both have appeared extensively in non-FF books, though.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:00:12 -0400 From: Gann349@aol.com Subject: miscellaneoz CHRIS: i'm positive that in my files i have the oz gazette with rinny's story in it. if you want a xerox, e me. DAVID: i agree, wonder city was less than stellar. okay, here's a joke: many of the munchkins from the mgm film had a difficult time getting jobs. i mean, who wants to hire someone so short? so when the little people got older, a man in florida built little-people-sized apartments and let destitute elderly munchkins live in them for free. they are all grateful for their "stay-free mini-pads." --Atty ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 09:07:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-96 > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-20-96 > > The Ozmopolitan Convention will probably be held at Lake Lawn next year. > It's on Lake Delavan, near Lake Geneva. It's gorgeous. A bit more > expensive than what we're used to, but even the O'Hare hotel has raised > its rates, so it looks like were stuck no matter where we go. We're > looking into Starved Rock for '98. It's a rustic retreat run by the state > of Illinois...kinda like Asilomar. Sounds good! Gee, and maybe, just maybe, I'll be able to afford to go by then. (Granted, doesn't mean I WILL go...) > Eric:Um, if you're gonna recommend booksellers, I'm cheaper than most > retailers who have store maintenance to cope with. I had no idea. I've never bought anything from you! (Bringing stuff I need to Winkies?) > [Begin new "plug] OZIANA will be out soon. Very good issue. Buy it! It > has a sequel to SPEEDY IN OZ and is illustrated wonderfully well by our > own Ken Cope. You'll be blown away by his illos, y'all! Will it be available at Winkies? > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digests 6/18-20/96 > > Chris: > I'd love to be at Winkie, but the dibs aren't in tune this year. Maybe next > year I'll be able to make more than one of the conventions. Well, guess I'll have to mail you my copy of "Glass Cat" to get it autographed. > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest replies > > I've been away from the digest for a couple of days, so I apologize in > advance if this post seems long. . . Long posts have never stopped a lot of people here from saying anything (myself included)... > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Your possibility aout Eureka is the most likely and the easiest to explain. > Of course, March Laumer's story was a lot of fun to read... That I agree with, "Curious Kangaroo" is one Laumer book I really enjoyed. > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: for digest > > I must apologize to Eric G. for putting any personal messages to him on the > digest where everybody else has to see them whether interested or not. I know > that this is not acceptable, and I am sorry, Eric, that I did it. I will > never do it again. By the way, how do you know my mother? S'okay, no harm done this time. And I don't know your mother, but remember, I AM a schoolteacher. Same union and handbook as mothers . > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > (P.P.S. Danny, write your story, make the story the way *YOU* want it, > and don't worry about what others say...I'm afraid the reality is that > *ANY* original idea is going to get flamed.) Good advice for ALL would-be authors (and not just Oz authors, I might add). --Eric "I'm going to see the 'Weird al' Yankovic concert tonight!" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:03:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: More on T.R.'s mustache Dave et al.: Last Sunday there was a segment on Teddy Roosevelt's Sagamore Hill on America's Castles (Arts and Entertainment channel), with a number of photographs of T.R. Turns out that he groomed his mustache in several different styles, including the "toothbrush" version familiar from Mount Rushmore. But he also sported the "handlebar" mustache with extensions on either side that drooped down and lifted up again slightly. He never favored the big flamboyant loops of Jerry Colonna, and neither did Tik-Tok, if you look closely at the illustrations. The Rushmore Roosevelt, which has pretty much fixed T.R.'s image in the public mind, *had* to go for the toothbrush version, since the technical problems of sculpting a handlebar mustache would have been insurmountable. Incidentally, Jerry Colonna's dates are 1904-1986, so he is definitely out of the running anyway as an inspiration for Tik-Tok. Here are the other points of comparison that occurred to me when I suggested that Neill might have had T.R. in mind when he created the illustration of Tik-Tok: 1. The short, rotund body 2. The round face 3. The small eyes surrounded by perfectly circular wire-rimmed spectacles, which correspond to the stylized metallic circles that define the outer part of Tik-Tok's eyes 4. T.R.'s famous pith helmet, which is echoed in Tik-Tok's hat I'll be the first to admit that none of this adds up to a positive I.D., but I think the resemblances are certainly suggestive. It would be interesting to know if any of the early reviews of Tik-Tok mentioned the similarities. T.R. was a very popular president, and the vogue for "reproducing" him for children had already begun with the Teddy bear in 1902. I just joined the Digest when a discussion was in progress concerning Dorothy's return to the U.S. after a number of years in Oz to find herself grown into a young woman. I remember being struck by this by apparent divergence between Dorothy's "real" self and her "Oz" self when I read the book years ago, but I don't remember which book it was. I'd be grateful if one of you could fill me in (private e-mail would be preferable so as not to clutter the Digest). ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:30:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Ken: Your post seemed to work fine, since it appeared. All it entails is sending e-mail to Dave, with something in the subject heading to let him know that it is a digest post instead of a private message. Malcom: Good hunting! I know that Del Rey has all the Baum 14 available and you can get the first nine and last five Thompsons and all the Neill, Snow, Cosgrove and McGraw stuff from IWOC or BOW. As for those four Thompsons in the middle, that's going to be fun! Mike and Steve: One of the causes of this is the effect of super-repeating. For example, I will post something, then David will echo my post and add some comments, then Eric will echo that and add HIS comments, and on and on until there are so many names associated with the thread that it is impossible to sort them out and a comment will be mistakenly attirbuted to someone who did not make it. Of course, we could cut down on the echoing... :-) Robin's snippet regarding Toto's speaking ability came from Tik-Tok. I suspect, though, that Toto may not have "known" about this ability until he came to live in Oz. Although he may have made the logical connection in _Road_, when he saw Billina speaking. On Bungle: I was able to look at _Patchwork Girl_ last night. Eric already mentioned the scene at the end when the Wizard changed her brains, and Bungle herself asked Dr. Pipt to replace her brains with pebbles so that she would not feel above her station in life. On BEOO and other reviews: I am unable currently to update my web page, but if anybody cares to send me reviews, I will be able to post them within a week or so. All I ask is that you follow the few guidlines as mentioned on my page: 1. Negative reviews are accepted, but please keep the criticism objective. 2. Please use the star scale I provided in order to give people a consistent sense of what's going on. For example, suppose two people submit numbering systems. If Eric uses a scale from 1 to 10 and Aaron uses a scale from 12 to 47, then people will be confused. On the little Pink bear: Woot: What are you doing here? PB: Tyler put me here yesterday. Woot: You aren't supposed to be here. This is MY story! PB (checks his HACC): OH, yes, I belong in _Lost Princess_ Thanks for the correction, everyone! Danny: The key, of course, whether your main character is a new creation or an old standby, is to write the best story you can. A good author will shine regardless of which he uses, and a bad/lazy/"cop out" author will do poorly regardless. My main point was that overall inthe story, a mix of old and new is a good idea. The "newness" of the main character depends on the authors mood. Welcome finally to the second Delphi person! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:46:43 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: OZ Mike T.(and Rich M): I'm sorry to have attributed to one of you a remark made by the other. Unfortunately in my e-mail system, which I a stuck with, it is impossible to go backwards, to see who was writing at any point,it is also very difficult for me to go back to the earlier digest to see who actually made the comment--but I have and discovered it was Rich M, not Mike T., my appologoies. I am not in the habit of flaming. David Hulan: I am making so many complementary comments about _Seven Blue Mountains 2_ in hopes of speeding its publication by creating demand. Although I have read the (ur-)text, I have not seen Melody's illustrations, nor seen her revisions. John R. Neill died before I was able to read, and long before Eric Shanower was born, so neither of us has any first hand information about his feelings about the revisions of his MS. Eric has dealt with Neill's daughters, but the events occured more than forty years earlier. It can be argued which of FF has the worst story line. Because I read WC decades before I read Lucky Bucky, I have always prefered it. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 16:13:50 -0700 From: glassman@ix.netcom.com (glassman ) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-96 Robin Olderman: >And for the utterly gorgeous stuff, BoW can't be beat. Thanks, Robin. We do try! :-) And we also try to price our less gorgeous volumes at more modest prices than most of our colleagues. Few people notice this when visiting the shop, however, because they're usually so busy coveting the "utterly gorgeous stuff" and true rarities that do tend to go for fairly high prices. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:20:28 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 David: Comparing SBM to a famous children's classic is flattering. Would you not have been bored by yet another Standard Characters Go on Standard Oz Quest to Achieve Standard Goal story? : ) Also glad you don't care for chocolate. The extra piece of pie was delicious! Did your wife like the Wicked Witch chocolate they put at your plate? (I'm melti-i-i-i-i-ng!) Steve: Nice to see you! Thanks for the demo CD of Yellow Brick Road. Did try it, and was not surprised to see the Oriental names of its creators. The look, feel, and sound of the game is very Japanese. This is no Windham Classics, folks. This one featured a battle scene between the Scarecrow and a Gnome soldier. So far have not figured out how to make the Scarecrow win--though the vital stats say his one weapon is his boomerang hat(!) Was able to get him to throw it once, but could not figure out how to do it again. Robin: Do we have a temporal glitch? I remember dancing in a conga line at a friend's graduation party, but not at Ozmapolitan... By the way, Robin says that RPT's sewing basket does look like it's been used. Maybe the Patch episode was written after a bad sewing day... Chris: So, everybody wants to see Ozma in a bathing suit? Hey, Chris! The Digest folks have given me inspiration for a back cover---! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 23, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:06:51 -0400 From: ScottO1440@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-96 Regarding some recent digest issues: I, um, don't know if I'd want to see a drawing of Ozma in a bathing suit. The whole subject strikes me as unusual. In regard to the discussion about Neill's MS for WC, etc., I find this subject fascinating and an excellent idea for a Bugle article. I remember an Oz club member (I don't know if she'd like me mentioning her name) telling me years ago that the Neill books were her favorites. She told me they were among Fred Meyer's favorites, too. Can anyone confirm this? As for me, I was somewhat startled and surprised (to say the least) when I first read a Neill Oz book. Having already read 99% of the series, I thought I knew what an Oz book should be like, and had already granted some tolerance to some authors for writing things I didn't totally agree with. But Neill was another matter! Besides giving a skewed view of Oz, his books are hard to read! Why is this? Incomplete sentences? Poor construction? Bad (or no) plots? Poor flow? Can anyone give me a hand here? What writing rules does Neill break? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 23:48:16 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (Daniel C. Wall) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Did I promise everyone a quote a long, long time ago that I could never find? Found it! It's quoted by Erasmus (Shyeah, no wonder why I couldn't find it except by accident) "When I get money I buy books. If any's left, I buy food and clothes." Hope it strikes a cord with you all, too! ****SPOLIER FOR WONDER CITY OF OZ******* Well, I can see why this book ends up on most people's "Worse Oz books" lists-- it definately has a tone that is not "Ozzy" It's almost like it tries too much. Here were a couple of items I wanted to bring up. 1) Non-aging of Oz citizens. Neill specifically states that children are born and raised/reared in Oz, as Number Nine's family indicates. He even says that these children will grow up to pre-determined ages because of their family. This implies that the non-aging of Oz citizens is almost like a genetic trait. Obviously, there must be enough genetic variation, or eventually a family of 8-yr old genes will not be passed on, for example. I like this idea, as it allows for a compromise of the strict pro-"non-aging" theories and those more liberal. 2) The obvious abundance of magic and magical inanimate objects in WC. This issue was met by the creation of the Lurline's machine theory, (See Dave's FAQ for more info, right Dave?) I would like to offer an alternate ***Theory**** (key word there.) Before Ozma's reign, magic was suppressed by the Witches of the realm, who did not want competitive upstarts. There always were magical creatures and inanimate objects in Oz, but pre-Ozma they were shunned to exile in their own areas-- think of Bunbury and Utensia in WIZ. With Ozma on the throne, these objects and others (like the fully animated houses) became more and more integrated with routine daily life throughout Oz, cumulating with the period of time Neill's books take place. Of course, with all the trouble and extra worry that these objects give, (maybe they even resonated more ambient magic by being so concentrated together,) keeping them around humans and in cities became increasing less safe and were eventually thinned out by city zoning and ordinances placed by the Wogglebug. All in all, just because Neill used these facets of Oz doesn't mean that, by other author's exclusion, that they didn't exist when not used by another author. Perhaps the "informant" for Neill made sure to point out all these things. (or at least his editor, right? ) ******end discussion******* Guessing Neill's informant was the Wogglebug himself, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 17:33:07 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-22-96 Aaron: Well, Neill described Ozma wearing a bathing suit in the text in SCALAWAGONS; I don't see why he couldn't reasonably have illustrated that scene. And she may not be the best example, but Princess Di has been pictured in a bathing suit quite often - and so was Jackie Kennedy when she was First Lady. For that matter, I'm almost sure that I remember seeing pictures of Gerald Ford and George Bush in bathing suits, though I can't cite where or when. Gili: The idea of Toto as a canine Unk Nunkie rings very true! Eric: You can mail me your copy of GLASS CAT for an autograph or wait till next year, or whenever I'm able to make it to Winkie again. >> From: Dave Hardenbrook >> Subject: Ozzy Things >> >> (P.P.S. Danny, write your story, make the story the way *YOU* want it, >> and don't worry about what others say...I'm afraid the reality is that >> *ANY* original idea is going to get flamed.) >Good advice for ALL would-be authors (and not just Oz authors, I might >add). I agree with the advice to write your own story the way *you* want it, but I don't consider civil disagreement with a proposed story idea to be "flaming". I don't remember any proposed story idea being flamed on the Digest. Tyler: I very rarely echo (having just done it in the last paragraph...). Only if it's easier to echo than to give the context of what I'm responding to if it needs it. (Of the frequent posters here, Eric, Mike T., and Dave are the only ones who echo a lot.) Steve: Sounds as if you have a pretty poor E-mail system. But since I assume it's free, you're probably getting what you pay for. :-) As I've said before, I read LUCKY BUCKY when it was the New Oz Book for the year, and didn't read WONDER CITY until I was in my forties, which may be the reason why my assessment of those two books is the opposite of yours (since your experience was more or less the opposite). But most people I've talked to have thought LB was the better. Peter G.: BoW doesn't have super bargains in used books, but I've always found your prices very reasonable. (By contrast, The Prince and the Pauper in San Diego, which is the only children's bookstore I've seen that I consider comparable in stock to BoW, is far more expensive - to the point where I've rarely bought anything from them.) Melody: >Would you not have been bored by yet another Standard Characters Go on >Standard Oz Quest to Achieve Standard Goal story? : ) Not if it had been as well-done as SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS 1! After all, I read and re-read the FF, most of which fall into the "SCGoSOQtASG" plot category (and, except for not using the most common standard characters, that was what I did in my own book). But I'm also quite happy to read a new twist on Oz that stays in the children's book category (as opposed to the new twists that move it into the adult book market, like WICKED or BARNSTORMER). (Not that I mind reading the latter, either...if it's Oz, and well written, I'll almost certainly enjoy it for what it's worth.) Marcia hasn't eaten the Wicked Witch chocolate yet. Probably saving it for a special occasion... Hope Chris accepts your idea for the back cover of BBB! ;-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:10:08 -0400 (EDT) From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-22-96 Mike Denio: Great comments on your reasons for buying vintage Oz books. My wife and I are always on the lookout for Oz books and it is also our experience that the prices run from severely underpriced (we picked up a first edition of Speedy in Oz for $5) to severely overpriced (we have too many of those stories). We have paid alot more than we have wanted for some of the items in our collection but we feel that we are knowledgable enough about the books to know when a price is way out of line. Unfortunately people like Herm and Robin are few and far between when you are looking to purchase older Oz books. There are good deals out there especially on non-Oz books Baum wrote under one of his psuedonyms. Hunting for them is half the fun. Chris Warkala ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:43:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest David: Eureka was mentioned by the Shaggy Man in _Patchwork Girl_, so I am assuming that she arrived sometime before that, but after _Dot&Wiz_. This was when Shaggy was cautioning Bungle to behave herself and to curry favor with the Pink Kitten. He implied that if Eureka did not approve or her, then to watch out for "breakers". Eureka made a brief appearance at the end of _Scarecrow_ and Bungle had a cameo at the tail end of _Rinkitink_. These were in what I call "And they met" chapters, since our heroes return in triumph to the Emerald City, and they meet... In an aside, I do not believe that Shaggy was serious. IMHO, Eureka was still not popular or well-respected in EC at the time, and certainly not to the point where she could order the destruction of those she did not like. BTW, for the classic example of an "And they met" chapter, try chapter 6 of _Wishing Horse_. YOICKS! Melody: One the reasons I enoyjed SBM1 so much was that it differed from the standard plotline. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 18:07:39 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: after reading digest Hi again, The digest today was interesting. In light of a recent controversy concerning not-so-funny humor, I want the record to show that the reply to Eric G. was a JOKE, and he did not say ANYTHING about my mother. I was slow to readthis digest, as I was out of town yesterday. Still, there was only one digest waiting for me today. I think my mail is messed up. I tried to send a file to Atty, but it arrived all garbled, just like the file to Melody. This could also interfere with any attempt to send new lists. I have had several nice digest folk try to explain to me how to make this work, but it is clear that I am much too stupid to make it happen. Maybe Bungle could spare a few of those pink brains for me? Mine obviously don't work. If ever I get to digging through my storage unit, I will try to find pornacopia (hey, what's this business of leaving out any punctuation or capitalization? It really is hard to read). If you can make a trip to ABQ, I would love to have you go through that stuff and just pick out what you want and make me any offer you like. I do have lots of Piers Anthony, but most is fairly common paperbacks such as can be found anywhere. As for Ozma's age, that is a matter of some disagreement, as is Dorothy's age. I prefer to believe that she stopped aging upon coming to Oz, but it is possible that she is still growing ever older, as so many other authors like to think. Baum himself erroneously listed her as a teen in Tin Woodman, though thankfully corrected this error in later books. IIRC, Ozma was like 8 or 10 in Glinda, and potentially younger in later books (though ironically the illustrations had her growing ever older!) Okay, I have just gotten a disconnect notice from Ma Bell. I have not been able to afford my phone bills in some time, and being disconnected will probably take me off the Net again. I have to come up with $197.98 by July 1, and that is simply not possible (NO, I will NOT borrow any $ from the Oz books to pay my personal debts! That $ is for Oz, not for me!), so be ready to see me take a break. Got a nice letter from Melody. She will be drawing Mrs. Yoop for the next calendar. Oh, boy! That will be exciting! Melody is a big fan of giants (no pun intended, natch), so this should be a really great drawing! Well, I think I will beam this off to Dave now. I wonder if I'll have another digest waiting for me when I sign on... ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 18:25:34 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: More for digest? Okay, I just now sent my last posting via Flashsession, and in that same flashsession got back the new digest. Short little thing. I had included a very LONG item that probably will not get in, so even my own posting for today (tomorrow? I'm so confused!) will probably be quite skimpy. Melody's comment about a new back cover for BBB makes me wonder how many more pages must needs be added to include all of the esisting material, but I think it'll all be worth a few more pages. She's really a great illustrator, and anything she draws is worth an extra page or two any ol' time! There wasn't anything else that was directed to me in this one that I didn't already cover a few minutes ago, so I guess I'll get back to writing Oz books and stop spending hours answering mail (though, admittedly, this is easier and a lot LESS time-consuming!). BTW, has anyone got any ideas as to the act of explaining away the contradictions in Shaggy Man? IIRC, it is the only one of the FF that is blatantly contradictory. Of course, we can find a contradiction in anything at all if we want to, but that is the ONLY one of the 40 that I recall being entirely HI. For this reason, I think it is the most important book to get a sequel at this point in time. As you have probably heard, I am trying to get books that are at least 50-60,000 words to offset some of the earlier, teeny-weeny books we've seen, but I guess this one may not need to be so long if you have a really good explanation. Any takers? E-mail me privately, and we can talk at length without bothering the rest of the digesters. Thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:34:07 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 Eleanor Kennedy Subject: Accentuating Letters << In re: how to put in those pesky accent marks I have also seen honest-to-goodness French people on-line put the accent ague *after* the letter, and the accent grave *before* the letter like so: Fr`ere Jacques, e'trange (with the apostrophe filling in for the accent here). The circumflex was also put in after the letter (table d'ho^te). It's not pretty, but it gets the job done. >> Why can't they just type Fr=E8re Jacques and =E9trange (or is it Fr=E9re= Jacques and =E8trange, and would "d'ho^te" be "d'h=F4te")? Or do not all computer= pick up such accented characters? In CompuServe sometimes people see such accented letters as Just The Letters. < Badger > ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:34:14 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-96 From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-20-96 << Toto's speaking ability: Ozma tells Dorothy:"...while he knows everything that is said to him he prefers not to talk." >> In my 1979 Oziana short story "The Real Critics," I enjoyed giving Toto an opportunity for a little biting banter with the Glass Cat (even using the actual name Bungle in an attempt to rile her). ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:34:17 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-22-96 From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Zeb Returns to Oz? << Since it seems everyone is throwing in their two cents on the idea of Ozma in a bathing suit, I might as well throw in my own thoughts on the subject: Somehow I can't imagine it. It doesn't seem right for a ruler. >> Well, it being "her" country over which she *is* the monarchy (not to mention those in the theory she is a fairie or part fairie and not merely humanoid), maybe teenage looking (yet [based on results] 100+ year old) Ozma might just choose to swim au naturel? -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 22:21:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-22-96 OZIANA: Boy, it'd *better* be ready by WinkieCon! Should be proofed and printed early this week. I wonder how the GAZETTE is doing. Speaking of which,if Rinny's Ozma hair color story has appeared in the GAZETTE (as someone suggested in the last DIGEST) then I can't run it in OZIANA. General policy, folks. Eric, etc.: if you want me to bring books to WinkieCon, e-mail me a want list. I'm not gonna lug those durned things unless I have to. And, FWIW, I work almost exclusively with "Want" lists, rather than generating catalogs or lists of stock. Our Oz books turn over too rapidly to make it worth the labor involved in listing...can you tell that I don't *like* listing them?! Ironic, my summer project is listing my own collection. Aargh. Not fun, but necessary. I've gotta clear out some of this stuff! Another good dealer out there is John McMahon of My Back Pages in Tulsa, OK. He gets a lot of Oz, is knowledgeable, and is fair. Oh, and Dennis (Geesh, I think his last name is Milhaus?) of First Folio Books in Buchanan, TN. Dennis carries higher end Oz, but it's frequently phenomenal stuff. Pricey, but beautiful. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:21:38 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: Commenting from file It would be great not only to help Tammy out, but also to assemble an Oz Party Guideline FAQ... --- On Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:46:28 -0600 (MDT) LIBRARY@pueblo.lib.co.us wrote: X-Personal_name: Tammy From: woodsie522@kktv.com Subject: OZ PARTY I am giving my daughter an OZ birthday party in the fall. Are there any ideas as to interesting food, games, decotrations that you may be able to pass along? AND have you heard of Dorothy's House in Liberal Kansas? Lovely place. Thank you!!! -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 6/22/96 Time: 9:21:38 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:27:33 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: (no subject) OK, Oz fans. Here's an opportunity to promote Oz! Jim Vander Noot --- On Sat, 22 Jun 96 16:03:53 -0700 Ewa Hellberg wrote: Hello! My name is Kristin. Im 17 years old. Im writing to you because I've just found out that I will have the leading part, Dorothy, in the musical The Wizard of Oz. So I am interesting to know more about Dorothy as a person. Can you help me.... Kristin, Sweden -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 6/22/96 Time: 9:27:33 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 23-Jun-96 01:46:57 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TIK-TOK REVISITED: I had another thought about Tik-Tok...Does he have emotions??? The answer to this question may help determine whether or not he is "alive". OZMA'S AGE AND A WILD "COMPROMISE" PLOT: I have been trying to rack my brains trying to come up with a scenario that would allow Dan to marry Ozma and live happily ever after, but that would also both appease the "Ozma-is-a-little-girl" proponants, and would "save" Dan from being relegated to the HICC and heresy-hood. So here are the ideas that I'm thinking of--I probably won't use them they're so wild, but I have tovent them anyway...forgive me for thinking "out loud"... (Again, all comments to this will be considered private, unless I REALLY think i tworthwhile to post them in the Digest.)... Is it possible that--like The Spirit of Christmas Past in _A Christmas Carol_, _Big John, Little John_ ( more 70's TV nostalgia! :) ), and the "ghost" of Dave Bowman in _2010_--Ozma *fluctuates* in age???--Possibly because fairies like her are ageless and have "different time values" than we do? Ozma's status as a "variable" fairy ( all you astronomers--would Ozma be an R R Lyrae or Cepheid variable? :) ) might explain the disagrement about her age (without having a "propaganda" theory), and would explain why in some of Neill's illustrations she looks like just a brunette Dorothy, but in others like--as Oscar Madison might say--a "Baumgean Betty Boop". :) :) :) So Dan is with Ozma when she's a young adult, but goes off on adventures of his own when Ozma is a little girl--and it is during these periods ( not very long, or else Dan would go crazy! :) ) that most as-yet-unwritten Oz stories take place. Or perhaps most wildly of all--maybe Glinda or the Wizard or Zim finds a way to split Ozma's two age-states into *two separate people*!!! Dan would then marry the mature Ozma and run away with her to "the sticks", while the innocent, childlike Ozma would go back to dutifully ruling Oz, and everyone is happy! (Yikes, a TWO-OZMA theory???) These ideas are just brainstorming...If it were up to me I wouldn't try to think up such weird things...but if it's the only way to make my story acceptable to the majority of Oz fans... ( But based on Badger's message today, we've got Ozma *skinny-dipping* now, so maybe the day is not TOO far off when you'll all let her have a fella!!! :) ) ( I still have to find a way of making marrying off Glinda acceptable though!!! :) ) WORD OF OZZY WISDOM FOR THE DAY: Scarecrow: If life is a box of chocolates, then get your chocolates at *See's Candies*, where they let *you* choose what goes into the box... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 24, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 08:59:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Neill's Writing 1) Scott, as I see it, the major problem with Neill's writing is that he talks DOWN to the reader. Baum and Thompson, on the other hand, assume that the reader is a reasonably intelligent human being and thus talk TO the reader. 2) Badger, I can't envision ANY human or humanoid fairy skinny-dipping in Oz. 3) Dave, I can just barely accept the idea of a fairy yo-yoing in age. But spliting Ozma in two is way too wierd, and in any case, spliting characters has been done already in Oz. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 06:14:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-22-96 > From: Gann349@aol.com > Subject: miscellaneoz > > okay, here's a joke: > many of the munchkins from the mgm film had a difficult time getting jobs. i > mean, who wants to hire someone so short? so when the little people got > older, a man in florida built little-people-sized apartments and let > destitute elderly munchkins live in them for free. they are all grateful for > their "stay-free mini-pads." G-R-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-A-A-A-N!!!!!!!!!!!!! > From: Gordon Birrell > Subject: More on T.R.'s mustache > > I just joined the Digest when a discussion was in progress concerning > Dorothy's return to the U.S. after a number of years in Oz to find > herself grown into a young woman. I remember being struck by this by > apparent divergence between Dorothy's "real" self and her "Oz" self when > I read the book years ago, but I don't remember which book it was. I'd > be grateful if one of you could fill me in (private e-mail would be > preferable so as not to clutter the Digest). Oh, since when have we worried too much about cluttering up the Digest? It was "The Lost King of Oz," currently available from the International Wizard of Oz Club. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Malcom: > Good hunting! I know that Del Rey has all the Baum 14 available and you can > get the first nine and last five Thompsons and all the Neill, Snow, Cosgrove > and McGraw stuff from IWOC or BOW. As for those four Thompsons in the > middle, that's going to be fun! But not necessarily inexpensive... > Of course, we could cut down on the echoing... :-) I echo because I get misinterpreted enough on here, I don't want to be accused of doing the same. Yes, I do err on the side of cuation at times, but I'd rather have a longer Digest than an incomprehensible one. Too many times someone says something like, "Sam, I couldn't agree with you more. Perhaps it's evidence that Baum flossed after all," and I have NO IDEA what's going on. I don't save my Digests, and to be honest I don't pay all that much attention to who's saying what until I type up these responses. So by echoing, I hope at least to jog the memories of people like myself as to what's being discussed. I do try to snip out anything that's not related to what I want to say, and not to echo echoes. --Eric "And usually I delete my .sig for you guys so as to not use up even more space" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 06:36:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 > From: ScottO1440@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-96 > > I, um, don't know if I'd want to see a drawing of Ozma in a bathing suit. The > whole subject strikes me as unusual. What's wrong with unusual? (When I do see some picture of Ozma in a swimsuit, all I hope is that it will be tasteful. We're talking the ruler of Oz here, of course!) > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-22-96 > > Aaron: > Well, Neill described Ozma wearing a bathing suit in the text in SCALAWAGONS; > I don't see why he couldn't reasonably have illustrated that scene. This is, of course, how this entire discussion got started. We've now come full circle, so perhaps we should give the thread a rest...? (That is, until we see Melody's picture...) > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: after reading digest > > In light of a recent controversy concerning not-so-funny humor, I want the > record to show that the reply to Eric G. was a JOKE, and he did not say > ANYTHING about my mother. Well, *I* recognized it for the joke it was, and replied in kind... > I was slow to readthis digest, as I was out of town yesterday. Still, there > was only one digest waiting for me today. I think my mail is messed up. No, it's getting delivered a little more irregularly to me as well. Everybody, we've got to remember, Dave has a life outside of serving our Ozzy e-mail needs! Yes, there are going to be days when the Digest is late, or not appear at all, because of glitches at his end, or he has something else he has to do, or whatever. So Dave, I understand completely if my Digest is late or not there, and for me at least, you DON'T have to send out early "Sorry, it's going to be late" notes as you've done in the past. Personally, I've decided that should I not get a Digest for two days in a row, and there was no advance warning that you'd be out of town or something, THEN I will write and say "Que pasa?" So far, I haven't had to do it. > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 > > Why can't they just type Fr=E8re Jacques and =E9trange (or is it Fr=E9re= > Jacques > and =E8trange, and would "d'ho^te" be "d'h=F4te")? Or do not all computer= > pick > up such accented characters? In response to this, I'm going to type in EXACTLY what I see on my screen right now: > Why can't they just type Fr=E8re Jacques and =E9trange (or is it Fr=E9re= > Jacques > and =E8trange, and would "d'ho^te be "d'h=F4te")? Or do not all computer= > pick > up such accented characters? As you can see, it's quite a mess. My system can only pick up the seven-bit character set, but most exotic characters are part of the eight-bit character set, and thus give many of our computers coniption fits. It's even worse if I want to download something, my system keeps giving me all kinds of red flags and warnings, then eventually says, "Nope, sorry, I can't do it." > Well, it being "her" country over which she *is* the monarchy (not to > mention those in the theory she is a fairie or part fairie and not merely > humanoid), maybe teenage looking (yet [based on results] 100+ year old) Ozma > might just choose to swim au naturel? I DEFINITELY don't want to be there when she does this, I don't think my poor little brain could take it... (Not to mention Dan and Laura would both be really, really annoyed at me...) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > TIK-TOK REVISITED: > I had another thought about Tik-Tok...Does he have emotions??? The answer > to this question may help determine whether or not he is "alive". Were we to ask Tik-Tok, I'm sure he'd say something along the lines of "I am on-ly a ma-chine, and can-not feel e-mo-tions." When writing for Tik-Tok in "Queen Ann in Oz," I was struck by how similar he is in many ways to Data on "Star Trek: The Next Generation," namely in that both use their unique machine-nature to claim that they don't have something that the rest of us can easily see. (OTOH, in "Return to Oz," there was that lovely moment when Tik-Tok cried a 10W-40 tear.) --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 12:39:38 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: Various Gordon B.: _The Lost King Of Oz_ Scott: IMHO it is plotting that is Neill's achilles heel. _Scalawagons_ is mostly plotless, _WC_ has little real plot (and most of that was added after the original version) and _Lucky Bucky_ is very linear with no real real conflict. Re: least favorite Oz books. Among Thompson's I give last place to _Cowardly Lion_, Bob Up is the weakest of her *human* heroes and Notta Bit More's disguises and jokes are tedious and dull. Dorothy's throwing a bucket of water on Notta just because he is dressed as a witch is appalling. (_Lost King_ has Mombi *put out* which is also against Ozma's standard behavior, but _LK_ has many positive qualities) I far prefer _Ozoplaning_. BTW my least favorite of FF is _Hidden Valley_. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 13:52:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest SCOTTO1440 (no name given): I don't remember any grammatical erros in Neill's books (run-on sentences Ann Soforth), but the plot in WC was a little disjointed. Danny: The main complaint I have with Neill's rule of a stop-growing age is this: What if you don't like the age which you have been assigned? What if you're not happy being 12 (for example) and would like to grow a little older? Under this system (and also Baum's original premise that all aging halted upon the enchantment) it would seem to be tough luck. You're just going to have to be miserable for the rest of eternity in order to satisfy Lurline's idea of fairyland. Of course, one solution would be for Lurline or Ozma to enchant everybody and make them content with the age they are now, and given some of the arbitrary decisions that Ozma has made over the decades, this is not too far out of character. David: You can count me as one of those who liked LB better. It was still not good, but it was not as poor as WC. Chris: I see one of two problems: Either your system is not configured properly or AOL has not done a good job with their MAC software. It is interesting that you claim that Baum "erroneously" described Ozma as a teen, since you feel that Ozma is around 8 or even younger. What is your feeling based upon? Chris again: While people wanting to write specific books should e-mail you privately, we can (and should) discuss any potential problems with _Shaggy Man_ on the digest, so that other people might get some ideas. Dave: I know that Tik-Tok has feelings of loyalty to Dorothy, if that counts as an emotion. Mr. Spock is loyal to Kirk, but he would deny that it is an emotion. :-) Your theory of the "variable Ozma" has possibilities. Even discounting Dan, there may be times when she would need to appear as a woman and times when looking like a little girl would serve her purposes. Remember, everyone, she may LOOK like a little girl, but she has been ruling Oz for at least a century now, and definitely does not THINK like a little girl. Therefore, Ozma would act differently, based on the persona that she has at the time, sort of like Princess Langwidere, except that of course all of Ozma's personalities would be sweet and caring. I really like this idea. It even has a non-Ozzy precedent, in David Eddings Elenium/Tamuli series. Also, when Ozma is in one of her personas, it is considered rude to discuss her other personas, so that there would be little if any crossover/conflict. As for the Two-Ozma theory, uh, (ahem), well, that could get a little confusing. As for making Glinda's marriage acceptable, she has always been presented as a woman, so there should not be a problem. Also, she does not figure into many stories, so the subject would not come up much in EC. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:17:07 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 Aaron - not only have princesses such as Di and Stephanie been photographed in various bathing suits - Fergie has been photographed without one... The reason most world leaders aren't photographed in their bathing suits, is that they are men in theirlate sixties or seventies who do not look their best innothing but trunks. Unlike Ozma? Badger - the reason you can't place stresses the way you did, is because not all systems interpret symbols the same way. For instance, on my screen, what showed up was: Fr=E8re, =E9trange. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 15:53:10 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: digest I'm about to get a huge pile of e-mail, I know. In this digest, I stated that Shaggy Man was the only one of the FF that is blatantly heretical. I guess I forgot all about Neill for the moment. Sorry. Rinny does remember her Ozma's hair story being run in a gazette. I'd have loved to see it printed again, as it may be decades before Rinny and I get any more of her writing into print ourselves. I think I'm exaggerating, actually. We have a collaborative effort (A Silver Elf in Oz) scheduled for next year, if all goes well. Dave has informed me that I shall be receiving his book with corrections, all ready to shove into the backlog and get into print sometime before the year 78,000 (We really need a Future Time Traveller in Oz to give me funny examples to make these statements more interesting). He has also stated that I will get to see some illustrations. Yay! Tyler has just informed me that a new page will soon be created that will be for HACC discussion exclusively. I hope that we will all be told when that happens, but he did not yet know how long it may take. I had hoped to upgrade my version of the HACC as well, but will wait and do it there. Okay, anyone with small children (Steve Teller, Melody?) I just spent one of my typical sleepless nights and saw Jelly Bean Jungle (I think that was the title. It was at 6:oo am so I guarantee nothing). The closing credits have a cute Oz reference, and the show is terrific! It really blows Sesame Street away in quality and content. Not that I do not like SS, of course. I grew up with SS, and it will always have a special place in my heart. But this show was really something. I think Jamie and Meghan (I can't spell either of these names) would love it! It is geared for people their age, of course, but I still enjoyed it even as an old geezer! Well, I guess that's all the public news I can think of just now. I may have a sudden burst of inspiration that will lead me to do another two-post day like yesterday, but I think I should save those inspirations for Oz book writing. After all, it would be a real shame if I ever let Melody alone with only seven MSs to illustrate... ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 14:11:14 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff In regards to last issue. . . >>> What writing rules does >>>Neill break? I think you hit the nail on the head when mentioning the lack of a linear plot in WONDER CITY, but since this is a problem Baum himself had at times, I'm willing to let it go. The biggest problem I find in WC is the tone of the story, which is very exaggerated, inflated, and fanciful to a fault. The puns abound until you want to echo Tip in LAND who shouts that if the Wogglebug doesn't stop with his puns, he's going to push him over the side of the Gump! In terms of exaggeration, Niell mentions that everything in a country of Oz is a certain color, even the people's skin! Almost every chapter reaches a fevered pitch of action even if it's not called for, and some characters are thrown in for no apparent reason. The thing I liked about Baum was his down-to-earth realism even in his fantasy stories. This realism is totally gone in Neill's Oz. >>> (P.P.S. Danny, write your story, make the story the way *YOU* want it, >>> and don't worry about what others say...I'm afraid the reality is that >>> *ANY* original idea is going to get flamed.) What? I thought we were in this for mass-consumer consumption and all the money and fame that goes with it, right David and Eric? >>Would you not have been bored by yet another Standard Characters Goon >>Standard Oz Quest to Achieve Standard Goal story? : ) >>Not if it had been as well-done as SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS 1! After >>all,I readand re-read the FF, most of which fall into the >>"SCGoSOQtASG" plot category >>But I'm also quite happy to read a new twist on Oz that stays in the >children's book category Can someone give us a plot-teaser (*NOT* spoiler though)? I mean, you got me hooked with all the praises so far, but let's give us some idea of what you're talking about. (Now I feel guilty, for my first story "Greatest Mystery of Oz" seems to fall SCGoSOQtASG category. Whew! I hope that acronym doesn't catch on.) >TIK-TOK REVISITED: >I had another thought about Tik-Tok...Does he have emotions??? The answer >to this question may help determine whether or not he is "alive". But Dave, I don't think Tiktok has a *heart* He definately has *brains*, which he admits are wind-up, of course. Perhaps, like any good Star Trek Vulcan, he would see emotions as illogical. Oz-ta la vista, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 16:52:22 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Various Just finished reading a short novel titled _Remake_ by Connie Willis. In it were one reference to The Wizard of Oz (patently, the movie version), two references to the Tin Woodman, one reference to the (in)famous ruby slippers, and one quote of There's No Place Like Home. Oz -- a la MGM at least -- is more pervasive than we imagine. Dave, I deduce in my best Holmes manner that you are a movie buff. You should read _Remake_. There's a reference to a movie or movie scene in practically every paragraph. It will really challenge your knowledge of *da movies* -- those which are cliche, in any event. CG (computer graphics), SF and VR fans might also enjoy it. Strangely enough (for you old-timers with us from the early Digest), the (anti)hero's occupation is remastering digitized *movies* to make them politcally correct. No! I don't want to stir that up again, but it is an odd coincidence. For those who might be interested: Catalog Qtly III 6/96 of Dover Publications, Inc. 31 East 2nd Street Mineola NY 11501 lists the following -- 29116-2 The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (Complete and Unabridged!), Baum, $1.50 This is a paperback edition, 128 pp., 20 of Denslow's original illustrations, newly reset in large, clear type. 28968-0 El Maravilloso Mago de Oz, Baum, $2.95 What else? The Wizard of Oz in Spanish. Paperback, 160 pp. 24779-1 Ozma of Oz, Baum, $6.95 Paperback, 111 illustrations, 288 pp. If ordering, state quantity, code no., author last name/title, total price Postage in U.S. $4.00. Give street address for UPS if possible. Which all goes to prove something, but I'm not sure what. To pontificate, I say: "A cheap, (not so) ratty edition is better than no edition at all." Or: if all you want to do is read the story, it should be possible to do so without having to spend $30 on up. You may quote me on that. Ozzily yours, W. Baldwin ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 25, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:38:11 -0400 From: homer OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ I was wondering: Does anyone know how many Oz novels were written? There were the FF but how many in all? Just an approximate number would do. 75? 150? 2000? OZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZOZ ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 20:21:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 Fred Meyer does, indeed, enjoy the Neill books for their vivid imaginative qualities. Most of us would consider those qualities creativity gone wild, artist unleashed! The writing lacks control and focus. By the time he got to LUCKY BUCKY, Neill seems to have learned some control. BTW, I spoke to him today. He sounds chipper. He still can't walk very far without getting tired and he needs his walker. Also, he's fighting yet another bacterial infection, poor guy. His birthday is July 10, for those who'd like to send a card. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:51:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 From Barbara DeJohn I just got back from Erie PA and had 5 digests waiting for me. I went to a used book store that had several old Oz books that they had not priced yet because they were all in really bad shape. How much would a 1st edition Baum be worth with the cover loose or off and pages loose? I am interested in hard copies of Baum's and RPT with color pictures. I can't afford 1st editions I don't think. Those of you with books for sale please contact me. I always wondered who Rinny was and now I know. Hi !!! Barbara DeJohn 10333.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:56:58 -0400 From: Haljim3@aol.com Subject: Purchasing Oz Books Dave: I am new to your digest and was wondering do you have a list of booksellers, or individuals, that have some of the FF for sale. I have some and would like to add to my collection. Also I have duplicates of some of the FF that I would be willing to sell or trade. What is the best way to go about this. Thanks for your help. Jim ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 08:26:24 +0200 From: Bill Wright Hi all, am catching up on the Digest have have a few comments back to offer. From: ozbot(Daniel C. Wall) >Does anyone know of a character (preferably one of Baum's) who has made >it to Oz (preferably from America) but was not allowed to stay? In addition to Zeb and Jim, who have been suggested by others, check out Hank the mule.......I don't have my books with me here, but don't seem to recall that he stayed in Oz. From: OzBucket >Still looking for artwork for the Club Calendar What kind of artwork are you looking for? From: MALCOLM BARKER >Are there 14 or 17 Oz books by L Frank Baum? Malcolm, in addition the numerous responses from others, if you check the Library Section at my website (http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/library/) you will find complete information on all of Baum's books for children, short stories, and plays (including Ozzy ones and non-Ozzy ones). Bill W. in OZlo ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:29:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Wizard of Oz Poster (fwd) Ah, the curse of the weird request from my web page strikes again... Send any answers straight to Mr. Bush, I don't care and I doubt very many of the "Digest" readers do either. --Eric Gjovaag ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 18:46:29 -0700 From: James Bush To: tiktok@eskimo.com Cc: jbush@richmond.infi.net Subject: Wizard of Oz Poster I am seeking a poster of the flying monkeys, they don't have to be the focus of the picture but they need to be clearly seen. Can you help me? Does such a poster exist? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:23:51 -0700 From: MALCOLM BARKER Subject: [Fwd: Praise for Baum] Received: from kaiwan.kaiwan.com (kaiwan084.kaiwan.com [198.178.203.84]) by kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA24749; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:14:20 -0700 (PDT) *** KAIWAN Internet *** Message-ID: <31CE5C62.259@kaiwan.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:14:10 -0700 From: MALCOLM BARKER I'm simply overjoyed with Oz! Really, I can't wait to get from one book to the next. I'll have to wait for Borders to get "Scarecrow of Oz" and the suspense has me drooling. Really, he's better than Tolkien, and of course wrote the most perfect books for kids (great precious gifts for Christmas). I had tried to find him in my local library and was dismayed to find Orange County Library has 1 (one) Oz book, in Chinese. Must surely be the right time for an Oz revival. I've read all the original Star Trek books but haden't thought of the characters as they relate to Oz before. I can understand how it would be difficult to match the quality of his literature but hope the story NEVER ENDS! Malcolm ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:25:25 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 On seven-bit characters: Eleanor, more to the point, it doesn't matter whether OUR computers and mailers can handle eight-bit chars (mine can), but DAVE H's can't!. Since he re-mails the stuff, we all (including you) received the message as =E8, etc. On echos: I put in the context for the same reason as Eric mentions: to avoid misquoting, misconstruing, or misattribution. Also, because (as he also said), I read quite a lot of mail each day aside from Ozzy Digest. I may not remember what the original reference was to. Be that as it may, I didn't even QUOTE something about Neill, again, because I had absolutely no knowledge of the MS situation. SJT, apology accepted. Heads of state in Swimwear: I've seen pictures of Kennedy, Reagan, Teddy Roosevelt, and I think even Queen Elizabeth II in swim attire. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky (Shaggy Men Love Magnets!) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:09:31 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 On story-writing: The good thing about formulas: They provide comforting familiarity--you know the basic framework--the interest comes from what the writer is going to hang on it this time. The only bad thing about writing a series of stories using the same formula is this--eventually the practice destroys 'suspension of disbelief' in the series. Sooner or later, the reader/viewer wakes up to the fact that "Hey, David Banner Hulks-Out twice on EVERY Hulk show! Why doesn't he Hulk-Out once on some shows, and three, four, five times on others? That would seem more real!" which wakes one up to the fact that one is only reading/viewing stories after all. Exactly what writers/producers DON'T want. Eric Shanower's publisher could very well have ordered him to use Dorothy and the Scarecrow in all his graphic novels because they are readily recognized--unfortunately, more Oz fans than I noticed, and wondered "Why Dorothy and the Scarecrow in every single book--?" Yes, Eric's graphic novels are good, but that teensy bit of formula did tend to dent suspension of disbelief as per above. Eric once wrote me a letter where he mentioned he was starring Dorothy and the Scarecrow in yet another graphic novel, (one of the five already published) and then said, "(How original!)" Parentheses his. So HE recognized he was overusing those characters. It is possible, as one Digest reader said, that his editors, with a misguided eye on their bottom line, made him do it... In Oz-Story, where I understand he has more editorial control, he does not always use Dorothy and the Scarecrow. His latest OzStory, like SBMI, has a computer-colored cover. Think he'll get a modem and show up on the Digest someday? Ozma skinny-dipping????? If folks want something worse than a bathing suit, they'll have ask some other artist!! :-) :-) :-) There IS a mention in Beach Blanket Babyloz that Trot and Dorothy playfully throw Ozma head over heels into the surf. There's the most likely scene for a bathing-suited Ozma... Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:15:30 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23&24-96 6/23: Scott: If the idea of an illustration of Ozma in a bathing suit seems too unusual to you, you needn't look at it. :-) I think Danny hit on the biggest weaknesses in Neill's books, as far as I'm concerned, especially the puns. Baum used puns sparingly - the Wogglebug's in LAND and the Utensia scene in EC, primarily - and Thompson used them mostly in naming characters and places, but Neill used them several times a page. Although this is by far at its worst in WONDER CITY, so that could have been the editor instead of Neill himself. Neill's Oz is also considerably weirder than the Oz of the other writers. I disagree with Aaron that Neill wrote down to the reader, at least to any major extent - at least, I never had that feeling (as I do, for instance, with the Dr. Doolittle books). And while I agree with Steve that SCALAWAGONS has no real plot, and WONDER CITY doesn't have much of one, I think that LUCKY BUCKY has more real conflict than several of Baum's books (DOTWIZ, ROAD, EMERALD CITY, PATCHWORK GIRL, TIN WOODMAN) and is no more linear than most of Baum and some of Thompson. The only Baum books without fairly linear plots are EC, TIK-TOK, LOST PRINCESS, MAGIC, and GLINDA; Thompson was more inclined to use interweaving plot-lines, but CAPTAIN SALT, HANDY MANDY, and SILVER PRINCESS are more linear than LB and HUNGRY TIGER, JACK PUMPKINHEAD, PURPLE PRINCE, and SPEEDY are about as linear. And these tend to be among my favorites of her books at that. Tyler: I knew of the Shaggy Man's mention of Eureka in PG - that is, in fact, the first time that it's mentioned that she's pink. So she clearly returned to Oz sometime between DOTWIZ and PG, and became pink in that same interval. I have my own theory that I pursue in EUREKA IN OZ, which will probably be finished this summer sometime. Chris: What's your evidence that Ozma was 8 or 10 in GLINDA? I don't remember anything of the kind, and in fact an 8-year-old Ozma doesn't make any sense at all in the context of the way she behaves in other books. Ten I could just barely give you based on behavior, but it's clearly stated in more than one place that Ozma is older than Dorothy, and there's sound evidence that Dorothy is 11. Actually, Ozma acts more like a twentysomething, or at least a late teen-ager, in most of the books where she does enough to give any real evidence of apparent age. Of course, if you want to insist that the various Royal Historians were all making mistakes, you can assert anything you like... Sorry to hear that your phone service is about to be cut off. Hope you're successful in raising the $$$ to get it restored so you can be back on line soon. I always enjoy reading your posts, even if I disagree with them fairly often. I don't consider SHAGGY MAN to be so HI as all that - for one thing, since almost all the action takes place outside Oz and outside any places that have been mentioned in the Oz books, there's not all that much room for inaccuracy. There's the case of the Shaggy Man reverting to his original story of how he got the Love Magnet, rather than the one he told Ozma after he bathed in the Truth Pond, and there's the case of the Nome King's tunnel still being mostly open, but those don't seem all that difficult to reconcile - no more than a lot of other apparent contradictions in the books, including cases where Baum apparently contradicts himself. Do you have other inaccuracies that you think need explaining? Badger: As others have said, typing accented characters and transmitting them through one of the major on-line services results in getting hexadecimal gibberish, because the accented characters require 8-bit ASCII and most of the major services only transmit 7-bit, because some of their users don't have systems that can read 8-bit. I can type frere and Etranger and d'hote, but I bet by the time they get back to you through the Digest you'll just see hexadecimal stuff; my computer allows it, but AOL doesn't, and I doubt if Delphi does either. Dave: I have less objection to your marrying Glinda off than to your doing the same with Ozma; I find Laumer's idea of her marrying a grown-up Button-Bright ludicrous, but I could see her marrying another mature magic-worker (even, possibly, the Wizard) fairly easily. Steve: Maybe COWARDLY LION is worse than OZOPLANING; I don't have a strong opinion on the subject. Possibly my dislike of OZOPLANING is based on the fact that I've owned a copy since I was a child, and hence have reread it a lot of times and never found it at all satisfying. COWARDLY LION, on the other hand, I read once in a borrowed copy as a child and didn't read again till I was well into my 40s. While I didn't like it much, its poor qualities haven't been as thoroughly impressed on my psyche as those of OZOPLANING. Anyhow, I place those two, along with GRAMPA, in the group of Thompson's poor books, along with Baum's ROAD, Neill's WONDER CITY and SCALAWAGONS, and Cosgrove's HIDDEN VALLEY as other poor books in the FF. Tyler: >The main complaint I have with Neill's rule of a stop-growing age is this: >What if you don't like the age which you have been assigned? What if you're >not happy being 12 (for example) and would like to grow a little older? Or, for that matter, would have liked to have stopped a little younger? This is less likely, granted; I know of few children who don't look forward to being older, though maybe in Oz this isn't true. (It doesn't seem to be with Dorothy or Trot or Philador, for a few who've been quoted on the subject.) I don't know what Chris's problem is specifically, but I've had few problems with the Mac software on AOL. Most of the time it works jes' fine, although the latest upgrade to 2.7 has had an annoying problem of the interiors of windows going blank for some reason, and I have to log out, close the AOL application, and reopen it to get rid of the problem. Not serious, but annoying. [NOTE: The following "Spoiler" banner is mine. -- Dave] ***** SPOILER FOR _DISENCHANTED PRINCESS OF OZ_ (= SEVEN BLUE MOUNT. 1) ***** Danny: OK, a quick "blurb" for SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS 1: Princess Amalea of Lostland - a sort of opposite number of Jinxland topographically, at the opposite corner of Oz - suddenly finds herself in the form of a boy. Since he's in a garden where only royalty are supposed to be, he's thrown in prison, but a kind-hearted jailer lets him out through a tunnel that leads into Oz proper. After a few adventures, he's taken under the wing of Zim, the Flying Sorcerer, who also turns out to be most of the other good wizards of the area of the Seven Blue Mountains. As the assistant of Zim's various personae, Dinny, as he's known after his transformation, has assorted adventures over a good many years, mostly with reference to people, places, and events in the PD volumes of the FF. (The story starts in the first year of Ozma's reign and continues up to more or less the present.) Among the references are the magic emeralds from WISHING HORSE, Wunchie and the Hammer Elf from HANDY MANDY, the entire underground world of DOTWIZ, and the Rose Kingdom from TIK-TOK (and those are far from all). Throughout we gradually learn more and more about Zim's mysterious background, and also watch Dinny learn and grow in knowledge and wisdom. It's a very unusual Oz book - more of a coming-of-age story than either quest or tour, which sets it apart from all the FF and any non-FF book that I've ever read. ****************************** END SPOILER ******************************* It's also very well-written and beautifully illustrated. [This simple statement of fact need not be included in the "Spoiler" block. :) -- Dave] David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:38:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-96 On Sun, 23 Jun 1996, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 24, 1996 *** Yes, that would explain why I got Monday's Digest late Sunday night... > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > What? I thought we were in this for mass-consumer consumption and all > the money and fame that goes with it, right David and Eric? MONEY? HAH! (And as for the second half, infamy is more like it...) --Eric "Gee, I didn't have a lot to say today, did I?" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:43:39 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Aging Question Tyler, About the Ozzy Aging Question, the reason I said I liked Neill's ideas about the issue (about each family having an established age for their offspring when they grow up) was that it implied a scientific blanketing statement to resolve the issue. Of course, I was easily able to adapt my Age MOPPeT (you're only as old as you feel) to this, so that if a child was unhappy with his or her age, they could always find means to grow up (not usually the opposite direction, unless a fairy like Ozma, I guess.) For example, (although not born at the same time) Ojo's family produced a son not much older than Dorothy, while his father's brother's family produced a much older son who grew all the way up to be Unc Nunkie. Hmm, perhaps a story idea here for someone, as a Oz kid, tired of being a kid, goes on a quest to get big, but just the fact that he learns about life on his quest, he indeed grows up. . . The idea that magic of Oz makes every one content in their situation sounds a little abusive of power for me. Oz was first seen as an architypical America, and I think my (and Baum's) ideas of independance might be severly compromised at that. (Although I hear I might feel the same when I read Captain Salt in Oz) Here's another thought-- All the (mortal) magic-users of Oz are older-- Glinda, Mombi, WicWit's, Mrs. Yoop, Wizard, etc. Could there be some correlation to age and being able to use magic? Agreeing that someone frozen at age seven months could be troublesome, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:31:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest On extra characters: My server also does not receieve the eight-bit character set. It would be easier on everyone to just use the seven-bit. on the HACC: Let me say that I am NOT going ot create a page that will be exclusively for HACC discussion. I do not know enough about JAVA and any necessary ODBC drivers to pull this off, for one thing, and it is not necessary. When I finally get around to revamping the thing and posting it on my page, all of my arguements will be placed there and people can e-mail me privately with suggestions, complaints, etc. On the super-long acronym: I onece wrote a short story called "A generic Oz story" and sent copies of it to the late Marcus Mebes, Chris Dulabone and March Laumer just for fun. This was definitely in the mode of the standard Oz story, and I called it AGOS for short. Maybe this acronym will catch on instead of the long one. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:21:19 -0500 (CDT) From: MKPETERS@ualr.edu Subject: subscribe My name is Kathy Peters. I am a graduate student at UALR in Little Rock, Ark. I am interested in how other teachers use THE WIZARD OF OZ in the classroom. I am in the process of writing a unit that teaches thinking skills using the book. I read the Oz books to my second grade every year and there are so many opportunities to teach thinking skills. Any ideas or suggestions will be appreciated. I am going to teach six thinking skills in the unit; Compare/contrast, Reliable/Unreliable Sources, Classification, Prediction, Evaluation, and Application. I am having a wonderful time putting this together because the book is one of my favorites. I'll be glad to answer any questions that anyone might have about the unit. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:59:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: For da Digest Shoot, I KNEW there was something more I wanted to say. I just picked up issue #1 of "Romance in Rags," Caliber Comics' new mini-series that's part of their "Oz" title. It's all about the Patchwork Girl, and I, for one, enjoyed it. I especially liked the art in this one, Bill Bryan's Scraps is charming and quite effective, even if she's nothing like Neill's. --Eric "Your opinions may vary, of course" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:47:46 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests Hi again! Another weekend away, another batch of digests... Gordon Birrell wrote: <> My understanding is that the Teddy bear wasn't meant to *look* like TR, but was inspired by the fact that he was an avid hunter...but only of big game, and strong adult animals. Some reporters remembered a bear cub he refused to shoot, which found its way into a cartoon...and then was made into a toy, helped out by another toy bear cub imported from Germany around the same time. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I thought the combined evidence of the books (since Baum also had people growing up, albeit mostly in his earlier books) was that people in Oz could age if, and only if, they wanted to. Even Neill seemed to go along with that, his "stop-growing age" being nothing more than a tradition of that family, and a temporary one at that. Number Nine, who came from that very family (hence his name) seemed to have aged a year or two by the time of his final FF appearance in LUCKY BUCKY. <> No, but, like the Wizard's "lobotomizing" Jenny Jump (especially given that she'd tried to run against Ozma) is too close to certain real leaders for comfort. (Yes, so was his initial scenario in the first book...of how many political leaders has the "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" line been quoted, anyway? but Baum's whole point WAS that the Wizard was a good man but a bad leader.) Re: Ozma in a bathing suit: Yes, it's rare for the leader of a country to be seen in one...but how many leaders play blind-man's-buff in their residential garden? The unique informality of Oz makes it entirely conceivable, though I agree that the concept of her skinny-dipping is going a bit too far (Fergie aside). Re: Exiles from Oz I think we're all agreed that neither Zeb nor Jim is likely to be a villain. But, if the Snow books are in public domain, how about Tom? Or, not to be sexist, maybe Twink? Re: Ozma's age About all Thompson ever said about Ozma's age was that she was "no older than *you* are" in KABUMPO, and that was clearly ambiguous. Surely she couldn't have meant *all* her readers (some have started on the books as early as 5 or 6, as I did, and Ozma's clearly not *that* young), and at least one of the marketing flyers seemed to be targeting readers as old as 15. (And why not? Baum mentioned a number of adult readers in one of his introductions, and I suspect the vast majority of us here are over 15.) Baum himself, aside from his explicit statement in TIN WOODMAN, had Ozma carry a note in her bosom in GLINDA (physically difficult for a prepubescent girl), and the very fact that Mogodore (nasty, but he didn't seem perverted) and Pompadore (a perfect gentleman) both wanted to marry her would seem to place her at least in her early to middle teens. Re: A RUNAWAY IN OZ I got this at Books of Wonder, but never got around to reviewing it. Definitely Neill at his best, with Shanower, by all accounts here, helping things out. Although, once again touching on ages, I've mentioned how I'd earlier been uncertain about how old Scraps was supposed to (physically) be...the word "girl" was ambiguous enough so I at first saw her as the age of Dorothy and the rest rather than (as Baum seemed to intend and the pictures indicate) a physical late teenager or young adult. Well, given her RUNAWAY dialogue ("You're mean, *mean,* MEAN!...just like everyone else in this stupid town! I'm leaving!"), I could almost believe she was even younger than 11-year-old Dorothy. Or, I suppose from what I've heard of parents of teenagers, more likely several years older... and, as someone once said, it's hard to find a Neill character who isn't childish, even when s/he never was under Baum or Thompson.. But an interesting group of characters, a definite plot, and a nice look at Neill's skewed but enjoyable vision of Oz that can seem downright bizarre when it bleeds from the pictures into the actual text. Those walking, talking quinces rebelling against going to market, not to mention Jinjur's marching squashes (amidst more evidence still that she's a divorcee) are a bit disconcerting. They're not Neill's first sentient vegetables (remember Dick Tater?), but I recall the discussion some months ago about what Oz people eat if all the animals can talk and reason. The consensus seemed to be that some, at least, weren't, but let's hope that applies even more to Oz vegetables, because otherwise even vegetarianism might not suffice for anyone trying to be humane and still eat! Good night, all! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:59:38 -0400 (EDT) From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-96 Just want to give out some information. If any of the members get the fx channel on their cable on today's Personal fx show they are going to feature a Wizard of Oz memoribilia collection. The show airs at 12:00 on the east and 9:00am on the west coast. If it is worth talking about I'll post something tomorrow. Chris Warkala ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 22:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Like Gili, I have been out of touch for three days. Gili, I think you are missing the point of a benefit auction. Sure people bid things up. It is for a good cause. Tyler >Of course, we could cut down on the echoing... :-) IHMO this would cut the length of the Digest in half. In case Mr. Glassman forgets to mention - BOW is moving and he is offering everything in the store at 20% off from June 21st to July 3rd. He sent me a card in California to tell me this. Sigh. This is great for NYers. Enjoy. David >I agree with the advice to write your own story the way *you* want it, but I don't consider civil disagreement with a proposed story idea to be "flaming". I don't remember any proposed story idea being flamed on the Digest. David always puts things so well they bear repeating. Now about Dan..... :) Dave >( I still have to find a way of making marrying off Glinda acceptable though!!! :) ) Good Grief. What next? You really have a marriage thing don't you? Are you married? Are you a justice of the peace? Married Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 22:51:41 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-96 << Why can't they just type Fr=E8re Jacques and =E9trange (or is it Fr=E9re= Jacques and =E8trange, and would "d'ho^te" be "d'h=F4te")? Or do not all computer= pick up such accented characters? In CompuServe sometimes people see such accented letters as Just The Letters. >> Yikes! I think I answered my own question! From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 << As you can see, it's quite a mess. >> So I noticed. << My system can only pick up the seven-bit character set, but most exotic characters are part of the eight-bit character set, and thus give many of our computers coniption fits. It's even worse if I want to download something, my system keeps giving me all kinds of red flags and warnings, then eventually says, "Nope, sorry, I can't do it." >> I hate when that happens. I didn't realize the distinction between character sets. I have enough grumblings pulling a .gif or a .jpg and once off-line having it come up claiming to be some sort of an unsupported .tga TARGA file. D'oh! -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Do witches run spell checkers?" < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 25-Jun-96 02:30:40 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things HOW MANY BOOKS?: Homer wrote: >I was wondering: Does anyone know how many Oz novels were written? There >were the FF but how many in all? Just an approximate number would do. The HACC (at Tyler's web site) says there are 210...I guess _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ makes it 211. :) ( About 50 of these are as yet unpublished, but you asked how many have been *written*. :) ). If you count the "Inaccurate" books (i.e. _Wicked_, _Barnstormer_, etc.), I think that brings it to about 220. THE FAMOUS FORTY FOR SALE: Jim (Haljim3@aol.com) wrote: >I am new to your digest and was wondering do you have a list of booksellers, >or individuals, that have some of the FF for sale. Between them, the International Wizard of Oz Club and Books of Wonder have most of the FF...( Does anyone have their phone#'s on them? -- I really should have them in my FAQ! :) ) OZ IN OC: Malcolm wrote: >I had tried to find him in my local library and was dismayed >to find Orange County Library has 1 (one) Oz book, in Chinese. Which Orange County Library was this, because if you look at their catalog, the Orange County Library *system* has *many* Oz books, including some of the DelRey reprints of Thompson! The Huntington Beach Central Libray has more Oz books still--*All* of the Baum 14, _Little Wizard Stories_, some of the Thompson books, *all* of Neill's (including _Runaway_!), both Snow's, _Merry-Go-Round_, _SillyOzBuls_, and _Giant Garden_ (on order). Let me know if you want more info.--I'm an expert on Oz in Orange County. :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 26, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 00:48:39 -0400 From: ScottO1440@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-96 Some additional thoughts: Steve-- Maybe one's favorite (or least favorite) Oz book has to do with when the book was read. You listed your least favorite as Hidden Valley, in which I thought Cosgrove did a pretty good job. (The illustrations are another matter.) Your listing of Cowardly Lion as your least favorite Thompson is interesting, because I always thought it was one of her better efforts... But that might be clouded by the fact that it was also the first Thompson I'd read. Many rate Lost King very highly, but to me it is just better than average. I suppose my 3 least favorate of the FF would be the 3 Neill's. After that it's hard to say, but I would be tempted to go with Magical Mimics. My least favorite of Thompson's would have to be one of her last 3--Handy Mandy, Silver Princess or Ozoplaning. In regard to Neill being a good artist but poor illustrator, one of my favorite drawings by Neill is the color plate in Lost Princess showing Dorothy and Toto being bounced around by the Merry-Go-Round mountains. This is a great picture by a great illustrator! I regard to plot being a major handicapp in Neill's books--yes that's true. But some books have little or no plot (Road, Capt. Salt) and they turned out much better. Capt. Salt is one of my favorite Thompsons. Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:31:05 -0400 From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: posts I've just read 23 posts in a row. That about guarantees the longest post from me ever. Chris: Fred Meyer called me a week or so ahead of Ozmapolitan and said he wasn't going to send any Oz Calendars because he didn't know where to send them. I suggested the mailing address of Lee Jenkins, the Louisville member coordinating the event if he was unwilling to use the hotel address or OzWorks -- which is open business hours and would have made transfer easy for Lee. He claimed he had no way of getting any of those three addresses. I offered to call the printer myself with them in order to have them available at which time he said there was no point as they wouldn't be printed in time. Robin and others: Both the Oz Gazette and the Oz Observer have been at the printer ready to print and mail since the end of April. I've been made to understand that there was first a problem with getting the membership list updated and later that there is a problem with getting mailing labels generated. I know Carole Mackey (The Oz Observer) put an August 1 due date in her publication for submitted material for the Autumn issue. If any of you have contributions in mind, you might want to be sending them her way. I'd REALLY appreciate it if she'd be appreciated and encouraged in her willingness to take over the Observer. It's a demanding volunteer role and hold ups in mailing (after hustling to meet a deadline) are not much of a reward for hard work. Did anyone find the condensed info on Reilly & Britton/Lee spine imprints that I included in a recent Gazette helpful? Don't need to clutter the Digest, but please let me know. I worry about young members being taken advantage of in ignorance about editions and thought that brief overview might help. And speaking of Ozian swim wear...In the software package "Reading Adventures in Oz" one scene has a handful of Oz favorites in a swimming pool. I was particularly struck by Glinda who is portrayed as a black woman with a rather bee-hivish hairstyle. My Ozmapolitan review would be more detailed than Dave's or Robin's and though Eric is dear to my heart his views on Runaway may not be the most important aspect of the event to Digest readers, so listen up to scroll on. Hearing a 1913 recording from the Tik Tok stage play and Barbara Streisan singing "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead" was a blast! Eric Shanower's presentation about the Nomes was illustrated with slides by all kinds of artists. Some of the foreign illustrations were particularly fascinating. While Dave crashed at 11 p.m. and missed the line dancing moments, a handful of us were draining the last coffee in the hospitality suite tillt 3 a.m. Wish you all could have beenthere (course it would have been crowded...) The riverboat ride was designed for public appeal with semi-professional story tellers, a local musician leading and Oz sing-along and the Munchkin interviews. The riverboat tickets bought by hundreds of non-convention attendees (by the way it cooled off fine when the storm hit and the windows were open; our problem became hearing over the excited chatter of those not listening to the program), the exhibit hall of maybe 20 vendors open to the public at $3 a head (everything from old Oz books to new stuff, Our Landlady, OzStory, etc.), public book signing (they shop ordered 100 copies of the IWOCs Wicked Witch of Oz) and the children's program that others could attend all helped foot the bills and generate unprecedented publicity -- daily live television broadcasts and tons of print media. My sister even saw the convention on the news in Phoenix. When you talk about getting word out, those little people are an ace in the hole for reporter interest. I also saw Bill Stillman, Willard Carroll and others being interviewed. One unforgettable moment came in auction time when two determined bidders fought over a souvenir plate from the now-defunct Banner Elk (N.C.) Wizard of Oz theme park. The winner paid $1,400 for it. Patric Maund was a TERRIFIC auctioneer. In record time (3-4 hours vs. the usual all day ordeal) we gout through the material and made considerably more money than anticipated -- the plate, of course, helped. Club materials were not in abundance for sale anywhere because Lee couldn't get anyone in the Club to respond to her requests to get them there. Please don't hold that one against Lee. Best not get me started on that topic.... Besides, she had other things the kept her scurrying, like designing a candy mold so we'd each get an Emerald City chocolate at the Saturday night dinner. Free transportation from the airport didn't materialize and a few foolish folks responded by spending hours at the airport instead of taking a $13 cab, on the other hand the food was the best I've ever seen at Ozmapolitan. I had a talented 17-year-old artist, Liz Grace, as my roommate. It was her first time so I didn't spend as much time as I would have prefered meeting new people chosing to devote more time to introducing her around. Estelle and Rebecca were a blast (especially when I was so distracted that I missed my flight home and got to visit with them in the airport). Enough already. Read it on the web site. A project that didn't get done in time is a brainchild of Lee and being done with the help of my roommate, Liz. They are producing a slide/tape version of Rinkitink that will be transfered to video. It had been slated for this year's convention , but Lz wasn't able to get that much artwork done in time. I believe the sound track already is recorded. So those of you who wanted to see a film version, this might dull the ache for a bit. One of my publishing oddities, like the upside down spine and the book Gili reported with the wrong color plate, is a copy of the Annotated Wizard that I have boudn backward. It's a novelty. Hearn once autographed it for me with his left hand (he's right handed). Peter/BOW: Congrats on the new digs! Hope it's bigger and better than ever. for infor on what happens next to Miss Gulch, does anyone have the recording of Miss Gulch Live? Perhaps it tells us. I'll e-mail privately the doll-dress person, but FYI, The Yellow Brick Road in Chesteerton had carried Barbie and Cabbage Patch sized Dorothy doll dresses in the past. Mad magazine also parodied Oz in July 1969 with The Guru of Ours. And Eric, I would have loved it if the Smithsonian had sought your page on the Populism connection. Sad that they didn't. Just wanted all of you to know I tried to do something constructive in the wake of all the pro-Populism stuff that we will now, no doubt, be hearing as something people learned from the Nation's Attic. If anyone got the CD, Video or has checked their Web Site, let me know if the populism stuff is printed as fact their too. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 10:11:27 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 I am amazed at the response my little comment is getting about Ozma possibly swimming skyclad. It was not meant to be construed as a sexual thing (orginally it was a half-joke): however, nude swimming is a completely natural and innocent activity. While I've not (yet) been to a (legal) nude beach, where nudity *has* occured it's no big deal; I've done it myself on Brighton Beach (well after dark). But so what? In most theologies all humans are a reflection of Deity anyway, therefore we should consider each of ourselves beautiful and have no qualms. Prior to civilization, the only clothing used was against cold and thistles and stuff. And with the Witch of the North telling Dorothy that Oz is *not [even] civilized*, I'd almost be surprised if Ozians ever *did* use swimwear. Note that the European countries in which nudity and sexuality are NOT as "taboo" as this prudish country have 99% less sex crimes than here. We are way behind the times with our "freedoms." ================================ << From: James Bush To: tiktok@eskimo.com Cc: jbush@richmond.infi.net Subject: Wizard of Oz Poster I am seeking a poster of the flying monkeys, they don't have to be the focus of the picture but they need to be clearly seen. Can you help me? Does such a poster exist? >> I've never seen one myself. Any particular pose? That is, could you do some sort of a video frame grab from the film? ================================ From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23&24-96 << As others have said, typing accented characters and transmitting them through one of the major on-line services results in getting hexadecimal gibberish, because the accented characters require 8-bit ASCII and most of the major services only transmit 7-bit, because some of their users don't have systems that can read 8-bit. I can type frere and Etranger and d'hote, but I bet by the time they get back to you through the Digest you'll just see hexadecimal stuff; my computer allows it, but AOL doesn't, and I doubt if Delphi does either. >> I found that out: mine own message came back to me in the Digest with all the plus signs and the "You Just Can't DO This" (d'h=F4te) type symbols. Characters do work like that within CompuServe. Surprises the heck outta people in the chats. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Do witches run spell checkers?" < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 12:51:45 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: various " Jim: The Oz Trading Post is on-line at www.Neosoft.com/~iwoc/iwoctrad.html/; you might try it for trading some of your duplicates. I noted that a copy of a "Speedy" 1st is being offered for $500. I paid less that that for a 1st (2nd state) "Wonderful Wizard." Bill W.: Hank certainly stayed in Oz. Malcolm Barker: Don't wait for for Borders to get "Scarecrow"; IWOC has it available with color plates for $20 for members ($25 for non-members). However few bookstores for it. David Hulan: I would disagree about "Lucky Bucky" having more real conflict than many of Baum's Books ("Road" excepted). It is merely an "on the road" story with a series of unconnected incidents. The only conflicts are between the bakers of the "doughmain" and the "pie-rats" and the appearance of Mombi's speaking likeness. These hardly give shape to the story. "Patchwork Girl" has the complex quest of Ojo to find the materials that would undo the liquid of petrifaction. BTW: We should come up with a standard way of referring to Oz titles. ALL CAPS, "quotation marks," _underlining dashes_ or something. I am willing to use any of these methods without preference. Many years ago I was trying to come up with a standard for evaluating the various Oz books ("A prolegemena for the future study of Oz Books") and I came up with the principle of the irrelevant episode, that is a part of the book that could be removed without affecting the plot. Indeed, an IE could be transfered from one book to another. The greater percentage of the book that was made up of IEs, the weaker the book was. A book fike "Road" was entirely IEs since it had no real *plot*. At the other extreme "Wishing Horse" has almost no IEs. Of course, this is an overly simplistic standard, and many other factors should be brought into consideration, but it is a start. One of the greatest stories ever written that uses the question of aging in Oz is Phyllis Ann Karr's "The Eldritch Horror of Oz", an Oz/Lovecraft pastiche. I recommend it to anyone who can find a copy (it has been published several times I believe). Rich M.: If you are interested in speculation about the later history of Tom and Twink, read Eric Shanower's "Abby" in _Oz-Story Magazine, #2_. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 15:30:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Homer: Dave already answered your question. The HACC is being worked on right now, and should be fully available in a few weeks, along with the HICC, a list of inaccurate Oz books. Bill: Hank the Mule definitely stayed in Oz. Granted, he was almost never after _Tik-Tok_, but he gets mentioned in an early Thompson (possibly _Royal Book_ or _Cowardly Lion_) and he was part of the huge parade in chapter 6 of _Wishing Horse_. Also, it is very unlikely that Hank would have left Oz with Betsy stil there. David and Chris: The issue of the Nome King's tunnel had been discussed before Chris joined the digest. There was a disagreement over whether or not the tunnel had been completely filled at the end of _Emerald City_. The generally accepted theory had been that the belt was low on power after transporting all those thousand of Whimsies, Growleywogs and Phanfasms home. ***** MOPPeT ***** When Ozma commanded that the tunnel be filled, the Belt simply did not have the juice to do it and only sealed the ends. Ozma assumed that it had been done and did not verify the action. Many later books, including _Shaggy Man_, _Red Jinn_ and _Braided Man_ have all had the tunnel still there. Danny: The abuse of power happens not unfrequently in Oz. I can think of examples from _Rinkitink_, _Cowardly Lion_, _Gnome King_, _Pirates_, _Ojo_ and _Woner City_. Note that I do not consider the "putting out" of Mombi in _Lost King_ to be abusive because Mombi got what she deserved. However, this example can be used to demonstrate the wild inconsistency with which villains are punished in Oz. Punishments range from total destruction (Glegg and Mombi, although Glegg's destruction may have been accidental) to turning to stone (Quiberon), turning into harmless animals (Gorba/Abrog) and even no punishment at all, such as Mustafa of Mudge. King Skamperoo of Skampavia actually had his personal situation improve after conwuering Oz! IMHO, age affects magical power only in the sense that it takes years and years of practice to become powerful in the use of magic. On aging in Oz: Yes, it is true that the aggregate of evidence suggests that people can age if they want to. MOPPeT is that Baum was in error when he first assumed that all aging was turned off forever when Lurline enchanted Oz, since he saw many people stay the same or nearly the same age year after year. Only later did other authors realize the "truth", that aging was voluntary and many people aged very slowly or even not at all. Neills mention could, as Danny said, a tradition in each family, with children remaining at a specific age for a couple of decades before moving on. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 15:43:06 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 Barbara: IMHO, your first choice for Oz books with color plates should be the reprint editions from Books of Wonder (the Baums through TIK-TOK, so far, with the rest of Baum scheduled to be published before 2000) and the IWOC (SCARECROW, SPEEDY, and WISHING HORSE). These are very nice editions that are all under $30, on better paper and with better bindings than Reilly & Lee ever used. For the other books, you're getting into Serious Money for a copy in decent shape with the plates; I haven't seen prices from Herm Bieber or Robin Olderman, but I'd be real surprised if even they have them for much under $100. It's true that the BoW PATCHWORK GIRL has been slightly edited to reflect modern racial sensibilities, and I assume that the same thing will happen with RINKITINK when they bring that one out. You may want other copies of those two books so you can have both Baum's original text and Neill's original artwork as well as all the color, albeit in two separate volumes. But the "white" editions of the Baums from the '60s are generally available for fairly modest prices and are entirely adequate for the "backup" role. (Note: the FF books after WISHING HORSE never had color, and are all available in nice new reprint editions from BoW or the IWOC, and sometimes both.) Bill: Hank the Mule definitely stayed in Oz; he's part of Dorothy's expedition in LOST PRINCESS, for instance, and I think is mentioned elsewhere as well, though I'm not sure he has any lines elsewhere in the FF. (He has a few in GLASS CAT, though...) Malcolm: You don't mention which Orange County you're in - as Dave says later, Orange County, CA, certainly has more than one Oz book in their system, but I find Orange Counties in Florida, Indiana, New York, North Carolina, Texas, Vermont, and Virginia, as well, and most of them are much smaller in population than the most famous/notorious one in California, and therefore presumably less likely to have a large county library system. (The Geography Nut strikes again!) But if you're as enthusiastic about Oz as you sound, you probably want to own the books yourself anyhow, don't you? The Baums are all available in PB in any decent bookstore (usually in the SF section rather than the children's) - not as good as having the hardcovers, but the story is there intact at least, if you're on a tight budget. If you're not, see my comments to Barbara above. Moi: It looks as if when I type accented characters, they go through as the same character but lose the accent, unlike what happened to Badger. May be the difference in what the Mac transmits or what AOL transmits vs. what whatever computer and Internet gateway Badger uses. Also, I didn't put a spoiler banner on my "blurb" for SBM 1 because I didn't think anything in it would spoil any reader's enjoyment of the book; I was trying to be very careful not to give away anything remotely suspenseful, while giving some idea of what the book was about, in the manner of the blurb that's found on the DW of most HC books or on the back of PBs. ******MAYBE A SPOILER IF YOU'RE VERY EASILY SPOILED******** The only possible exception I can see is my mentioning that Zim was also most of the other good wizards in the SBM area, but I can't see that that would hurt the impact of the book at all. ******END POSSIBLE SPOILER********* Eric: You mean you're not getting rich off QUEEN ANN? And here I've been depending on GLASS CAT to support my retirement! :-) :-) :-) Danny: Uh-uh. Unk Nunkie was actually Ojo's great-uncle, the brother of Ojo's grandfather. He was already a fairly old man at the time of Ozma's accession. All the professional magic-users in Oz are older, as I recall, but Tip, Dorothy, Button-Bright, Kiki Aru, Randy, and Handy Mandy are all young and are able to use magic; I don't think there's any more of a restriction on the use of magic by the young in Oz than there is on, say, the writing of books by the young in the US. They aren't likely to have had time to acquire the necessary knowledge to do it well, but there's nothing "magical" about attaining a certain age that allows one to be able to work magic. Rich: I don't think it's fair to say that the Wizard was a bad leader; if he had been, the people of Oz wouldn't have been so fond of him and happy at his return in DOTWIZ. He was a bad -wizard-, in that he didn't have any real magical powers, but not a bad leader of his people. Scraps seemed to steadily degenerate in maturity through the FF authors. Dame Margalotte made her to be a housemaid, which would imply that she was probably intended to be mid-to-late teens at least (granted, younger girls were sometimes used as housemaids in those days, but generally only if the employer couldn't afford a more mature one; since Margalotte had full freedom to make Scraps any size she wanted, it's most likely she'd have made her adult-size). And her personality in the Baum books seems to fit a twentyish human - she's intelligent, clever, and reasonably mature in her outlook, even if she does "hate dignity". In Thompson, on the other hand, she's much wilder and more irresponsible (especially in OJO, but also in GNOME KING - the only two Thompson books where I remember her playing a major role), and in Neill she reverts to almost total childishness in both WONDER CITY and RUNAWAY. Chris W.: There doesn't seem to be anything called the "fx Channel" on my cable system. Does it have any other designation? Badger: For the definitive word on the use of spell checkers by magic-workers, I highly recommend Harry Turtledove's THE CASE OF THE TOXIC SPELL DUMP. It's a pretty good fantasy/mystery with outrageous puns and a highly amusing parallel world that's -almost- like ours, but... (Although if you're not very familiar with Los Angeles it loses some of its appeal, I'd guess.) I think it's the sort of book most Oz fans would like. Dave: I don't think the IWOC has a phone number for ordering books, though Robin or Steve or several others are probably better qualified to answer that. I have the one for BoW around here somewhere, but can't lay my hands on it at the moment; probably Peter Glassman will give it to you, though. (If nobody else does in a day or so, E-mail me and I'll look it up.) Note to Peter G: wouldn't it be a good idea to put your toll-free ordering number somewhere in the body of THE OZ COLLECTOR, instead of just on the order blank? I don't usually save the latter, but neither of the two TOCs I have handy include the number. As I said to Malcolm, I suspect he's in one of the other Orange Counties besides the one in CA... I got sort of verbose today, didn't I? :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 16:49:55 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: not much to say today Well, it seems that we have another set of stalemates going. It is all very nice to continue the discussion on Ozma's bathing suit, but I really am not seeing any new material. Besides, IMHO the definitive has already been done by Melody. No one can match that illustration. Too bad I am not rich enough to get it into print overnight. Still, from the looks of things, I suspect that this discussion will still be going on for several years to come... Twink and Tom as villains? I don't know. I have been told, but cannot speak from personal reading, that they both grew up in a Shanower story in he and Maxine's latest Oz Story Mag. In fact, both have had husbands now! And Conjo seems to be a brainless dimwit who never got restored after the Fountain of Oblivion business. I would need a spoiler to add more on this story, but I'd rather read it for myself before doing so. The above is based on what I was told by two of the other digesters who have read it. I do not consider this to be real Oz, of course, but it is something that is available. So is that Mad Magazine I have already mentioned. Still, I am at least interested in looking at OSM, while any of the rest of you are welcome to buy up all copies of that Mad... Someone asked about calendar art. YES! I need some! The theme will be beautiful villains (the flipside of Unlikely Heroes). I already have a lovely centerfold of the 1st & foremost phanfasm (which I probably spelled rong), and one of Mrs. Yoop (she's a big'un, to quote Melody). Dave will be contributing someone I am not sure of yet. Whoever asked, and any other potential artists, please feel free to offer any art you can crank out, so long as it is something you want your fans to look at for a whole month. I mention this only to make sure I get no slap-dash stuff that would not do justice to your talent. If you are into it, let me know at ozbucket@aol.com Thanks! There were also a number of questions specifically for me. I refer them instead to the Oz series itself. That is where I got my information. I will have to agree with the majority that some books are better plotted than others, and that Neill was not much of a writer. However, we must not lose sight of the fact that Oz is a real place, and that its history has happened as it has happened regardless of our personal opinions. I have to assume that Neill's stories, like all true Oz books, were sent to him by Queen Ozma herself. If the message was garbled along the way, it is not necessarily Neill's fault. As my headline suggests, I am not finding much to respond to on the last two digests. I guess we are in a rut and someone needs to start a new topic so that the rest of us will have something to comment on. Rinny and I are trying to think of something Ozzy to start a discussion about, but it seems that most issues have already been discussed so much they're all old hat now. Maybe it's time we started re-reading these books from the beginning and just listing every little insignificant and minor contradiction so that all of the digesters can hash them out, thereby planning future books which will explain away any and all of even the most irrelevant seeming-contradictions. (We all know that there are no REAL contradictions, right? Hmmm) After that, we will REALLY have a problem finding new fodder to hash out (though I suspect any new books that come about will likely come complete with their OWN loose ends!). Take care, everyone. I'll let you know if I'm still online after the 1st of July (will they REALLY disconnect me so close to an American holiday? Even though I am more a citizen of Oz than of America, that seems so unpatriotic somehow...). ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 01:40:55 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 Bear - I'm glad the IWOC profited off the items I brought from Israel - the club easily made ten times the amount of money I paid for the items originally, incidentally making a number of club members very happy with the new, exotic additions to their collection. However, I am positive that goodwill towards the club wasn't the only factor driving the prices up. It is the fact that most collectors cannot simply walk into a ticket office and ask for Israeli posters as I can. Hebrew editions of "The Wizard of Oz" cost more in America that in Israel because they are rarer and harder to come across, and in any case Oz books are worth more to collectors than to non-collectors.I could probably, if I wanted to, make an economic venture out of exporting Israeli Oz collectibles to collectors in America. The fact is in most of the trades I've made up to now I've more or less broken even economically, or even suffered a loss if you factor in things like the time I spend going from shop to shop and packaging items and mailing costs etc. But that's not what counts - what counts is how happy both ends are with a trade after the fact, because when you come right down to it, collectibles are worth as much as you'd be willing to pay for them, in money or in effort. I'm rambling. My point is, anyone reading this who is interested in Israeli collectibles has basically two choices: either trade with me (I refuse to accept money, only trades), or wait till you have the oppurtunity to purchase whatever it is you want at some store or auction or if you ever come over to Israel. In the second case, you're most likely to be paying much more money (just think of the price of a ticket to Israel!), and the difference could either go to a good cause such as benefitting the IWOC, or it might just go into some other intermediary's pocket. *I* don't care, I'm not running a business - but I find it immensely satisfying to trade by mail. It's fun, and *both* sides get something they're happy with which they wouldn't ordinarily come across. But I'm rambling again. Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 17:50:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 > From: homer > > I was wondering: Does anyone know how many Oz novels were written? There > were the FF but how many in all? Just an approximate number would do. 75? > 150? 2000? Let's just say "A lot, and more coming all the time..." > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 > From Barbara DeJohn > > I just got back from Erie PA and had 5 digests waiting for me. I shudder to think what I'm going to have waiting for me when I get back from Winkies next month... > I went to a used book store that had several old Oz books > that they had not priced yet because they were all in really > bad shape. How much would a 1st edition Baum be worth > with the cover loose or off and pages loose? Depends on the edition. Firsts and early ones, especially with color, are probably still worth quite a bit, although I wouldn't go into three figures -- "Wizard" excepted. But later ones are probably worth about twenty dollars or less. I've seen some dealers selling these kinds of books for five dollars or less. > I am interested in hard copies of Baum's and RPT with color > pictures. I can't afford 1st editions I don't think. Those of you > with books for sale please contact me. Well, Books of Wonder has NEW hardcover editions, with color, of the first eight books and "The Little Wizard Stories of Oz," while the Oz Club has "Scarecrow," "Speedy," and "Wishing Horse." All for twenty dollars each. Not bad at all, considering what older copies sell for. Check out my web page as well, I have links to a few dealers and information on others. > From: Bill Wright > > From: ozbot(Daniel C. Wall) > >Does anyone know of a character (preferably one of Baum's) who has made > >it to Oz (preferably from America) but was not allowed to stay? > > In addition to Zeb and Jim, who have been suggested by others, check out > Hank the mule.......I don't have my books with me here, but don't seem to > recall that he stayed in Oz. Nope, Hank stayed with Betsy. He pops up again in "Lost Princess," but come to think of it, I don't recall him having a big role in any book after that. > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 > > I've seen pictures of Kennedy, Reagan, Teddy Roosevelt, and I > think even Queen Elizabeth II in swim attire. Er, is this young Queen Elizabeth? Where are these pictures? > From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-96 > > Eric Shanower's publisher could very well have ordered him to use Dorothy > and the Scarecrow in all his graphic novels because they are readily > recognized--unfortunately, more Oz fans than I noticed, and wondered "Why > Dorothy and the Scarecrow in every single book--?" FWIW, I've seen some of Eric's early drafts for some of his art in "The Enchanted Apples of Oz," and originally it was going to be Trot, Cap'n Bill, and Bungle finding the castle and the apples, not Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and Billina. At the time Trot and Cap'n Bill were still under copyright, however, and so he changed it (probably with some urging from First) to Dorothy and the Scarecrow. Bungle was initially changed to Eureka, but Eric changed her to Billina to -- he hoped -- take advantage of the publicity surrounding "Return to Oz" and Billina's appearance in that movie. > There IS a mention in Beach Blanket Babyloz that Trot and Dorothy playfully > throw Ozma head over heels into the surf. There's the most likely scene for > a bathing-suited Ozma... Y'know, I can see Dorothy and Trot doing this... > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23&24-96 > > I don't consider SHAGGY MAN to be so HI as all that - for one thing, since > almost all the action takes place outside Oz and outside any places that have > been mentioned in the Oz books, there's not all that much room for > inaccuracy. There's the case of the Shaggy Man reverting to his original > story of how he got the Love Magnet, rather than the one he told Ozma after > he bathed in the Truth Pond, and there's the case of the Nome King's tunnel > still being mostly open, but those don't seem all that difficult to > reconcile... Okay, so what's YOUR explanation for these? (I have one for the tunnel being there, but it's lame, and nobody seems to like hearing my opinions anyway, which is why I stopped posting them...) Tyler, any chance of me (or anyone else here) getting a chance to read "A Generic Oz Story"? > From: RMorris306@aol.com > Subject: Recent Ozzy Digests > > Re: Exiles from Oz > I think we're all agreed that neither Zeb nor Jim is likely to be a > villain. But, if the Snow books are in public domain, how about Tom? Or, not > to be sexist, maybe Twink? For more on Twink and Tom's post-"Shaggy Man" life and how their trip to Oz affected their lives, be sure to read "Abby" in "Oz-Story #2," available now from Hungry Tiger Press and better comic shops everywhere . > From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-96 > > Just want to give out some information. If any of the members get the fx > channel on their cable on today's Personal fx show they are going to feature > a Wizard of Oz memoribilia collection. The show airs at 12:00 on the east > and 9:00am on the west coast. If it is worth talking about I'll post > something tomorrow. Good thing I read this Digest at about 8:15 this morning (Pacific time). I managed to catch it, and was both pleased (the collector lives just down the road from me, in Tacoma!) and disappointed (all she knew was the movie, NO books in her collection, and her knowledge of anything outside the MGM movie was atrocious -- she couldn't identify her cel as being from "Journey Back to Oz"). But it was overall a fun little piece, and I'm SERIOUSLY thinking about contacting fX about how to contact her and invite her to join us at an Oogaboo Rendezvous some time. > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > Tyler >Of course, we could cut down on the echoing... :-) IHMO this would cut > the length of the Digest in half. But it would probably end up being a lot harder to understand. As I said the other day, I'd rather have a longer Digest I can understand than a short one I have to keep scratching my head over. (Another way to cut down the length, without sacrificing ANYTHING, IMHO, would be if people with long .sigs wouldn't post them each and every time they submit a note to Dave for the Digest. I usually cut mine out.) --Eric "Only reason it's in today is because someone was asking about dealers, and I recommended looking at my page" Gjovaag # Come visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ # ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 22:31:22 -0400 (EDT) From: swarkala@cris.com (Sharon Warkala) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 Barb DeJohn: The answer to how much a first edition is worth in the shape you described depends on a few things. First thing you want to make sure of is that the book is complete (all the pages and color plates are there). The next thing you want to check is that the damage to the book is repairable. Book spines can be repaired but torn pages or water damage is harder or impossible to repair. Also check for coloring or writing on the pages. Remember these were mostly originally owned by young children who would color in drawings or write on the pages. You should in no way pay top dollar for a book in the condition you described. I would not go above $20-$25 for one. Remember there were reprints after the first editions with color plates you can find in excellent condition for under $50 or get one of the BOW reprints. Also if you are really interested in buying older Oz books you should pick up a copy of Bibliographia Oziana. Many books advertised as first editions are not. Chris Warkala ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 23:33:21 -0400 From: Haljim3@aol.com Subject: Wanting to purchase Oz Books. Dave: I don't think I was specific enough in my last post about wanting to purchase or trade for Oz books. I am interested in the older hardcover books. First editions would be nice but I also would buy later editions. I am especially interested in: 34. The Scalywagons of OZ, 36. Lucy Bucky in OZ, 39. The Hidden Valley of Oz and 40. Merry Go Round of Oz. Any information on where I could find any of these or other Oz books would be appreciated. Please e-mail me with any information Jim McQueen Haljim3@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 26-Jun-96 00:50:43 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things NEILL: IMHO Neill is a good artist *AND* illustrator -- My main quibble about Neill is that his beautiful girls/women all look alike! Unlike me, I guess he didn't have a specific "model" for each character... OZ TITLES: Steve T. wrote: >We should come up with a standard way of referring to Oz titles. ALL >CAPS, "quotation marks," _underlining dashes_ or something. I use underscores becuase book titles should be italicized, and the convention for E-mail is to use underscores for italicizing, i.e. _Patchwork Girl of Oz_. IRRELEVANT EPISODES: Steve wrote: >The greater percentage of the book that was made up of IEs, the >weaker the book was. This is also the opinion of Scott Meredith in his book, _Structuring Your Novel_. However, I have never been one to take this "rule" very seriously. In my view there are two kinds of fiction -- Strong Plot and Episodic. -- To use Steve's examples, _Wishing Horse_ is definitely Strong Plot; _Road_ is Episodic. Many other books are in-between. I believe that a book like _Wishing Horse_ that has an intense crisis all the way through is *supposed* to have a Strong Plot. Whereas "irrelevant" episodes are fine for books that are *meant* to be Episodic. IMHO, if Episodics were inherently "weak", then we would have to call not only some great Oz books "weak", but also _Little Women_, _Alice in Wonderland_, _Winnie-the-Pooh_, _Mary Poppins_, and many others. ANOTHER OZ REFERENCE I JUST CAUGHT: In the movie _Patch of Blue_, there's a scene where Sidney Poitier and Elizabeth Hartman whistle "Over the Rainbow" together. INFORMATS: Chris D. wrote: >I have to assume that Neill's stories, like all true Oz books, were sent >to him by Queen Ozma herself. Why do you have to assume that? The general theory on this Digest is that every Oz writer has a different "informant" that they get their stories from. For instance, Melody says in her Intro. to _Disenchanted Princess_ that her informant is Zim. And Rachel Cosgrove Payes says in the Intro. to _Wicked Witch_ that she got the story from a little avian emissary. *My* informants are the Adepts. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 27, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 00:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" To: Dave Hardenbrook 1) Jim, Barry and I have copies of The Scarecrow of Oz and Handy Mandy in Oz (and the non-FF The Dinamonster of Oz) for sale or barter (price to be determined by haggling), and from time to time people offer books for sale or barter on this digest. 2) Bill, uh, Hank never left Oz. He shows up after Tik-Tok of Oz at least as late as some of the Thompson books. 3) Rich, marching squashes? Seems as if genes from the Mangaboos must have gotten into the Ozite vegetable population... Also: Someone must have cast a spell in Oz between the Thompsonian and Neillian eras that made everybody stupid. Fortunately, based on the works of later writers, it seems that spell either was broken or wore off. 4) Bear, ARGH! I feel like leaking some of the strange (and not so strange, but not so expected) marriages and love interests Barry and I have decided upon and discussed for Lurline's Machine. Dave will have to work overtime to outwierd us! Kabumpo, why must you stand over me? Believe me, Glinda getting married is not so wierd as--ARGH! Come to think of it, how come only women work in Glinda's castle? I can't remember ever hearing a reference to even one man working there. Hmm... Sounds like the basis for a story... n) Dave, the Orange County Library has Runaway and Giant Garden? Hmm... YU Librarian: Run for your lives! n + 1) Speaking of ILLing stuff, today I got The Rewolf of Oz, The Magic Diamond of Oz, and Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz via ILL. My opinions: Rewolf: Even more torturous to read than The Wonder City of Oz. The book is lame from start to finish. I'm glad I didn't buy a copy of this book when I had the chance. This will be parodied in The Broad Side of a Barn in Oz when Barry and I get around to writing it. Magic Diamond: A nice attempt for 4th and 5th graders to write an Oz book. Unfortunately it's not historially accurate; in the prequel to this book (presumably Acinad Goes to the Emerald City of Oz) they changed the Deadly Desert into a forest! ***WARNING: SPOILER ALERT*** Red Reera: An interesting premise, but the book is too short to have happen what happens. Not enough events occur to allow the personality developments happen at a realistic pace, and some events which logic says must happen are only hinted at. Also, there are some serious holes in the story: Why does Reera want a baby? How does Kabumpo know about her? Where did those enchanted Easter eggs come from and for what purpose were they created? ***END WARNING*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 07:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: underscores and asterisks Dave Hardenbrook writes: > I use underscores becuase book titles should be italicized, and the > convention for E-mail is to use underscores for italicizing, i.e. >_Patchwork Girl of Oz_. My understanding is that underscores indicate *underlining*, and that for italicizing one should use *asterisks*. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:18:23 -0400 From: Gann349@aol.com Subject: a book's "quality" in reference to the recent discussion about "episodic," "strong plot," etc., i don't think these are conclusive qualitative categories for a book. i would hazard to say that characterization, dialogue, interest level, symbolism, and theme would be among the most important factors. however, i don't see why we really need to "rate" oz books. obviously, the majority of us read them because we love oz. i find it disturbing that there is such a need to categorize and define, such a thirst to reconcile discrepancies. for god's sake, OZ SHOULD BE FUN!!! in the long run, "literary merit" shouldn't really matter that much. there are many people who i know feel MY oz books are poor (i mention no names, heh heh). all i can say is that they were a labor of love--and they'll always mean something to me, at least. regards, atty ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:08:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-96 Didja ever notice that when people start commenting on how long the "Digest" is, it starts getting even longer? > From: Ozisus@aol.com > Subject: posts > > for infor on what happens next to Miss Gulch, does anyone have the recording > of Miss Gulch Live? Perhaps it tells us. Er, I have it SOMEWHERE in storage at my in-laws. But I CERTAINLY hope nobody thinks THAT'S canon. It's a bawdy revue. Badger, you need to address your comments about a flying monekys poster to Mr. Bush , as he is not a subscriber, but some guy who found my web page and is asking for something I can't answer. > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: various > > BTW: We should come up with a standard way of referring to Oz titles. ALL > CAPS, "quotation marks," _underlining dashes_ or something. I am willing > to use any of these methods without preference. Let's see, we already have posters who use no capitalization or punctuation, who don't use the possessive apostrophe, who echo, who don't echo, who put in long .sigs, who delete their .sigs -- so all I gotta ask is, (a) Why do we need to pick one method, and (b) Will it do any good? People are going to do it however they wish, and so long as it's understood what they're saying, why try to impose arbitrary rules? > One of the greatest stories ever written that uses the question of aging in > Oz is Phyllis Ann Karr's "The Eldritch Horror of Oz", an Oz/Lovecraft > pastiche. > I recommend it to anyone who can find a copy (it has been published several > times I believe). It was published in "Oziana" way back in 1981. (BTW, we need two things from the Club, which I may get to work on some time myself: An index to "Oziana" and a "Best of Oziana.") > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 > > Eric: > You mean you're not getting rich off QUEEN ANN? And here I've been depending > on GLASS CAT to support my retirement! :-) :-) :-) Well, unlike you, I do have to split my royalties... > All the professional magic-users in Oz are older, as I recall, but Tip, > Dorothy, Button-Bright, Kiki Aru, Randy, and Handy Mandy are all young and > are able to use magic Use magic, yes. But all the magic they used was created for others to use. I liken it to driving. You can have a license, drive, and not know a thing about what's under the hood and makes it go. You can be an amateur mechanic and be able to make a few repairs, diagnose problems, and so on. Or you can be a master mechanic and fix everything, and even have the knowledge (if not necessarily desire, need, or resources) to build a car from scratch. The young magic-users you brought up just took some charms out for a test-drive, which somebody else had to creat and enchant. (Your books analogy is a good one, too.) > Badger: > For the definitive word on the use of spell checkers by magic-workers, I > highly recommend Harry Turtledove's THE CASE OF THE TOXIC SPELL DUMP. It's a > pretty good fantasy/mystery with outrageous puns and a highly amusing > parallel world that's -almost- like ours, but... (Although if you're not very > familiar with Los Angeles it loses some of its appeal, I'd guess.) I think > it's the sort of book most Oz fans would like. Harry Turtledove is also one of my wife's favorite authors, and we got a chance to meet him at a sci-fi convention in LA last spring. Nice guy. I've GOT to start reading some of his books. > I got sort of verbose today, didn't I? :-) Nothing wrong with that... > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > [re: Steve's desire for a standard for designating titles] > I use underscores becuase book titles should be italicized, and the convention > for E-mail is to use underscores for italicizing, i.e. _Patchwork Girl of Oz_. I use quotation marks because it's the least contrived-looking of the three to me. Being able to italicize in e-mail would be a BIG improvement... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:26:28 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-96 Scott: I'm sure that one's favorite and least favorite Oz books are strongly influenced by when one first read them, but I'm also sure that that's not entirely so. It's likely that WISHING HORSE is my favorite partly because it was the second Oz book I ever read, but most people consider it to be one of the better books anyhow. And other Oz books that I read early (e.g. OZOPLANING) are near the bottom of my list, while the very last one I read (HANDY MANDY) is well up among the top dozen, and the penultimate one (also read in my 30s), MERRY-GO-ROUND, is in my opinion the best-written of all the FF, although I put it only third on my all-time favorite list because it's not quite as "Ozzy" as WISHING HORSE or LOST PRINCESS. ("Ozziness" is, of course, a highly subjective quality that I can't really define for the benefit of others, but I know what it is when I see it. Of the recent non-FF books I've read, for instance, I think QUEEN ANN is the Ozziest [my own book not considered because of obvious bias], though SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS and GIANT GARDEN are at least as good and probably better as books.) Steve: There is not, it's true, a major conflict that is the subject of LUCKY BUCKY, as there is with, say, LOST PRINCESS or WISHING HORSE. But in addition to those you mention there are Bucky and Davy's encounters with the Dollfins, the Nomes, the Crazy Bones, and the Game River/Jack Pott. These seem to me to be fully as much conflicts as those with the Mangaboos, bears, Gargoyles, and dragons in DOTWIZ, or those with the Loons, Mrs. Yoop, and the Hip-po-gy-raf in TIN WOODMAN, which are all the conflicts those two books provide. I've always used ALL CAPS to refer to titles of books, lacking the ability to use italics or underlines, because to me it's a cleaner look than sandwiching the title between underscores, and quote marks are supposed to be for less-than-book-length titles (or so I was taught). But if there's a consensus on the board that some other approach is preferable, I'll be happy to go along with it. Actually, I think RINKITINK takes the prize for the least number of Irrelevant Episodes - it really has none, unless you count Nikobob's encounter with Choggenmugger and Zella's with the bees. But I think both of those are really relevant to the plot, and certainly couldn't be lifted out and put in another book so they made any sense. (Well, the chapter where Inga, Rinkitink, and Bilbil go to Oz could be dispensed with without harming the story, but Bilbil's disenchantment makes it relevant as it stands.) I agree with you, though, that I tend to find that the fewer IEs there are in a book, the better I like it - not necessarily the first time through, but upon frequent rereading. I don't think this is a total criterion, though; some books with few IEs (GNOME KING, for instance, or MAGICAL MIMICS) are well down toward the middle of my list, and some with quite a few (OJO, SILVER PRINCESS) are well up on it. Chris D.: It's nice to know that Melody has done the definitive "Ozma in a bathing suit", but none of the rest of us has had a chance to see it yet. Eric: I think Tyler's explanation of the presence of the tunnel makes good sense -that really just the two ends were plugged. As for the Shaggy Man's reverting to his original explanation of how he got the Love Magnet, I expect it was just that he'd forgotten over the forty years or so since he came to Oz. He'd told the original story about getting it from an Eskimo so many times that he remembered it better than the truth. Remembering details over 40 years isn't that easy, and we know Shaggy had a poor memory anyhow, or he'd have recognized Polychrome immediately in TIK-TOK... Chris W.: Post-first edition Oz books with color plates for under $50? I've never seen one in the past couple of decades; maybe I've been unlucky. Even non-first editions published by R&L with plates would all be at least 60 years old by now, after all. Dave: _Winnie-the-Pooh_ and _Mary Poppins_ are both really collections of connected short stories, and therefore inherently episodic. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:41:47 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: Taste Tyler: Are you sure that Mombi "got what she deserved"? What did she actually do in LOST KING that was so bad that she deserved extinction? It is not *completely* true that Mustaqfa of Mudge got no punishment; he lost his deloved lion collection. Dave: True, _Mary Poppins_ and _Winnie the Pooh_ are episodic, that is because both of them are collections of short stories linked by commor characters, not continuous stories. _Alice in Wonderland_ is a dream narrative and has the structure of a dream, so it is not expected to have a plot as such. As for _Little Women_ (which I have not read for more years than I would want to admit), it covers a period of years (which few Oz Books do, [except for SBM1]). I can not remember if there was anything in it that was *irrelevant*. However, in many Oz books, especially many of RPT's and all of Neill's, there are passages that could be removed without being missed. How many people would immeadiately know in which book appear Tune Town, Tappy Town, Down Town, Up Town, Roundabout, and the Roundabouties? BTW, I reject *any* absolute canons of taste. "De Gustibus non est Disputantum!" If you _like Dorothy-Return to Oz_, more power to you. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:13:12 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff Neill's stuff-- As I said before, I think that Neill's books were written with the Wogglebug himself as an informant, given the propensity for punning and egregious exaggeration. Plotlines-- Episodic, or not episodic. This was a topic I brought up a while back, mostly because I just finished WICKED WITCH with which I was a little disappointed in. I think a book can be episodic, which I define as not having any dramatic tension at all, just characters going through motions. OTOH, a book can be full of episodes, like EMERALD CITY, but still have dramatic tension and therefore be a good, if not linear or wholly-plot driven, story. Stay with me! I propose another consideration-- Survival stories. It seems a popular Oz theme is one of survival in a weird land. WIZARD itself is one, while LAND is not. It would seem that, like in ROAD or DOTWIZ, characters can go from episode to episode, but the basic plot remains the same-- finding a way out. In this sense, what may be highly spurious wandering is acutally blanketed by a genuine plot. More famous Survival stories, to explain my point further, are Lewis Carroll's Alice stories. PATCHWORK GIRL-- I agree with the assessment that, generally, furture authors really dumbed down Scraps. I think the opposite is true with the Wogglebug. Baum clearly meant him to used for satire throughout his 14 books, giving him ineffectual and useless dialogue and action. (Don't get me wrong, I like the character on this basis!) But it seemed that future authors increasing took the character more and more seriously. In WONDER CITY, he takes a mentor type role and his adivce is the basis for what plot there is. (Which is why I say he is NEill's informant.) I think they missed the point of Baum's original character. BOOK TITLES-- Whatever is convenient for the mailer, I guess, would be okay with me. I find it easier to write titles in all caps. As long as the mailer remains consistent within the same post, I don't see a problem. or you can just take anthonys advice and just write everything the same anyway right anthony Never thinking there is a lack of Oz stuff to talk about, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:44:32 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: digest The Digest was longer today. Still not much I need to respond to, but I am happy to see some info being posted on prices for older Oz books. As someone who collects books for use as reference tools rather than valuable collectibles to lock in safe someplace and never allow anyone to touch, I have primarily Del Rey and other generic cheap versions. If ever I get offered an old cvolor plate edition, it would be nice to know its value so as to avoid getting something worth $4.00 for $400.00. Not that I'd ever pay that much, actually... Okay, not all messages come from Ozma herself. That was an oversimplification. I could add to your list of examples of authors getting word from other informants. Still, whoever Neill had as an informant either gave him accurate info that was garbled, or it was sensationalized beyond recognition by either Neill or his publisher. I still hold that it would be a really interesting thing to see someone write a few sequels to qualify these in the series. Hmmm. The Belt was so powerless by then that it was unable to do its job. But, of course, that is not what the book says. Am I to believe that you'd rather simply ignore the info given in the book than try to rectify it? I cannot go along with that at all. It is very clear that the Nome King's tunnel was sealed up as though it had never been there. Not just the ends. No, I smell another book in between there somplace. I refuse to simply ignore one book in favor of another. BOTH must be rectified. And it's not like it'd be hard to do. I had started a lengthy outline some time ago, but I do not know that I'll ever get back to that. I have more pressing projects to hassle with. Off subject: Isn't there some kind of ruling concerning vulgarity on the Net? I do not mean the Digest at all. I am referring to places like the Nickelodeon Blabbatorium Chat-room (see under Kids Only). The rules state that no foul language is to be used, yet it's there in great abundance. Last night, Oldsmobile sponsored a Celebrity Spotlight interview in which the listeners were saying the most vulgar and horrific things about the celebrity being interviewed (thankfully, I think the online host screened the postings that she actually had to see). It was annoying, to say the least, and got in the way of my enjoying the interview. Isn't it illegal to post that kind of material? Especially in a children's forum! Oh, I should mention this again: I have the copies of Lurline with color plates and cardboard covers. I had them made up as several online folk voiced an interest in them. So far, only a couple of you have actually sent in your orders, however (thanks. The books should be arriving shortly). There are still a few that I'm not sure got the message: Please send $10.00 to me at 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM 87002. Thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:51:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest When did YOU read that story? I beleive it is true that the earlier you read a book, the better you like it, since your critical facilites have not fully developed yet. I read _Lord of the Rings_ when I was very young, and for a while it was my favorite series of all time (The Oz series is in a class by itself and does not compete with other things). Nowadays, though, it has fallen down the list after re-reading it a few years ago. Age and Magic: Young people can certainly use magic, but in most cases, it is magic that has been prepared for them (magic belt, wishing pills, etc.). While age in and of itself does not increase your magical power, I hold by the experience rule: ie, older people are more likely to have been at it a while and thus know more about it. Chris: What you wrote is what I wanted originally: A large group of people poring over existing Oz books, resolving inconsistancies and creating a standard timeline of Ozzy history. There are several obstacles to this, however. The first is simple lack of material. Very few people own the entire FF (or even the Baum 14 for that matter) and even fewer own a substantial amount of non-FF books. Chris, I respect your knowledge of Oz as vitrually unparalleled, but I believe that it is unrealistic of you to expect everybody to own every Oz book ever written, to know what happened in them, and to understand how each book relates to all others in the overall picture of Ozzy history, especially when most of these books are printed in very small editions. This is an idealistic goal, which we should work to achieve, but it does not exist at this point in time. The first task is to publish electronic plot summaries and analyses of all books that are no longer in print. Are you offering your services? I hope so, since I myself have been meaning to do this for a while, but cannot seem to get started. Also, of course, there are a great many people who do not believe that contradictions even need to be ironed out and a few people even get angry when the attempt is made. Therefore, most of this work should take place off the digest and done in private e-mail. Another problem, naturally, is that the vast majority of the Oz books are still under copyright, counting FF and non-FF material. Eric and others on the Hank issue: IIRC, _Lost Princess_ was Hank's last major role in or out of the FF, although he had a few cameos. Eric: If I can find "A Generic Oz Story", I'll put it on the web, or ask Dave for permission to post it here, as it is relatively short. Jim McQueen: I'm sure Eric Gjovaag (or somebody else) will refer you to Herm Beiber and the Oz trading post. I don't know Herm's phone number or address, but I', sure someone here will be happy to post it for you. Also, Books of Wonder sometimes gets some older stuff in. These items are very rare, and very expensive. IE's versus plot: I tend to agree with Dave about the nature of adevture stories: Either they are episodic ("look, another strange looking kingdom!") or based on a strong plot. Also, books can be in between, so we have a scale, with totally episodic stories on one end and strong plots on the other. IMHO, neither one is inherently better than the other. For example, _Road_ and _Captain Salt_ are both very episodic, yet I really like _Salt_ and did not care for_Road_. _Wishing Horse_ is an example of a strongly plotted book that I like and _Shaggy Man_ is a strongly plotted book (I think) that I did not like. This parallels the discussion that Danny started about using new or veteran characters to make a good book. These ingredients are yours to choose from. Whether or not your book is good is the way you tell the story, not which type of story it is. Chris wanted us to start some new threads, so here's one: What do you think of the legal system in Oz, as represented by the trials in _Dot&Wiz_ and _Patchwork Girl_? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:19:30 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-26 *posting* Re: Ozma's nude swimming Badger--It's true that a lot of people react adversely to the idea of the ruler of Oz swimming au natural. I myself have a hard time with the image. But above that I think that it really destroys the public image of a _ruler_ to be seen sans garments. Look at what happened to the Dutchess of York (admittedly not a ruler, but a member of a royal house).... Your point about nude bathing in Europe is taken. But Oz is (and was designed to be) an AMERICAN fairyland. There's always been a strong element of prudery in the American psyche. One of the things I have always enjoyed about Oz as I grow older (and older) is the way in which it reflects an ideal America. That's what makes things like Rigmarole Town and Flutterbudget Center, the Wizard's treatment of Jenny Jump in WONDER CITY, etc. so interesting--because our standards of behavior have changed since the books were written. Re: the ongoing debate about poor titles--one of my least favorite books in the series is in fact GNOME KING, which degenerates into a race to the Emerald City. It even throws in some unrelated delays just to build up narrative suspense. On the other hand, two of the strongest Oz books I've read are Thompson's GRAMPA and McGraw's FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN. A research question--Is Dorothy Gale related (by blood) to Uncle Henry or Aunt Em? It seems to me that this question was addressed somewhere by I can't locate it in my back-issue _Bugles_. Can anyone guide me? Enough pontificating... Ken ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:09:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" To: Dave Hardenbrook 1) Badger, concerning your comments on nudity: Strange, I never considered America very prudish when it came to sexuality, though in nudity I'll agree that they're definitely not on the same level as Europeans. Though in Jewish theology, at least, humans being created "in the image of G-d" applies only to the human mind, as G-d in Judaism is believed to be incorporeal; hence in Judaism nudity is frowned upon and the dress of religious Jews tends to be conservative. 2) Melody, this may seem like a silly question, but the thought keeps bugging me, so please bear with me: Is Zim short for Zames or Zimothy? 3) Chris, what's this about Tom (from The Shaggy Man of Oz) getting a husband in a short story? I definitely didn't expect gay marriages to appear in Oz stories, but then again, I didn't expect a hint in Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz that Reera and Glenn slept together before they got married either. Note: At least you now have something to respond to in the Digest. (: 4) Stephen, how about just writing the title, e.g, The Woozy of Oz, as opposed to _The Woozy of Oz_ or "The Woozy of Oz"? 5) Dave, I must beg disagree with you. I read Mary Poppins at my brother's request (he wanted a review), and it was terrible! At least in the episodic Oz books (Neill's FF books not included), there is at least some underlying goal to bind the entire book together--The Road to Oz has as a goal to get to the Emerald City and Captain Salt in Oz's goal is to get Tandy home. Even in The Magical Monarch of Mo, in which the episodes are stand-alone stories, there is an ongoing conflict between the people of Mo and the Purple Dragon, which culminates in something I'd better not say here in order to avoid spoiling it for those people who haven't read it yet. (Sidenote: The Magical Monarch of Mo is available at http://rrnet.com/~djamund/books/index.html, thanks to Dennis and Warren, for those who want to find out how the conflict is resolved.) But in Mary Poppins, the episodes have practically nothing to do with one another and, even worse, aren't very good stories. Mary Poppins may therefore show up in The Broad Side of a Barn in Oz. ***WARNING! REVIEW ALERT! BEWARE OF SHOOTING VENOM AND SPOILERS! 5) Yesterday I got three Oz books via ILL. My opinions of them: The Rewolf of Oz by Roger S. Baum: Boo! Hiss! The best thing about this book is the typography. Roger's writing skills apparently degenerated after he wrote Dorothy of Oz, and they weren't in such good shape then either. The Magic Diamond of Oz by Danica Libutti et. al.: An interesting attempt by fourth and fifth graders to write an Oz book. The method of resolution was definitely unexpected. (Sorry, no spoiler.) Unfortunately this book= is not historically accurate; in the prequel, Acinad Goes to the Emerald City of Oz, the deadly desert is changed into a forest! Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz by Richard G.= Quinn: The premise--the antisocial Reera going on a quest with a prince and the two of them falling in love--is interesting, but the execution is rather flawed. The book has way too many holes in it that should have been filled: How did Kabumpo know about Reera? How did the adventurers gain access to Glinda's book of records? Why did the Easter Bunny create the Enchanted Easter Eggs? How come Reera DIDN'T know where babies come from at the start of the story? The last is particularly puzzling; I never expected Ozites to not tell their kids about certain things. Even if she was raised by wolves, presumably they would tell her--wolves can speak in Oz, you know. ***END WARNING*** Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@yu1.yu.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:10:22 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-96 Gee, I *DID* ramble in yesterday's digest. sorry. Jane - thanks for your description of Ozmapolitan! *I'm* sorry I wasn't there. Eric - *I* like reading your opinions. You could e-mail them to me privately if you don't think anyone else is interested, but I think you're wrong... about the tunnel, this subject has been discussed to death. Here's my favorite theory, I don't remember which one of you brought it up (wouldn't it be nice if it were Eric, and prove I really do like reading his opinions...) Someone here suggested Ozma didn't specify *what* the tunnel was supposed to be filled with. So the Magic Belt filled it with rutabagas, and they all got eaten. Chrisbucket - don't work so hard thinking of things to bring up on the digest! Chill, lurk for a couple of days, something is bound to turn up! Ciao! (who here can tell I'm in a good mood?) Gili |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Thursday 27-Jun-96 02:13:11 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: (Debatably) Ozzy Things :) OZMA TOPLESS -- FOR DAN'S EYES ONLY! :) :) :) : There's been a lot of talk about the concept of Ozma skinny-dipping being unbecoming for the leader of an "American" fairyland. The irony being that the most famous skinny-dipper of them all is America's own President John Quincy Adams! That's not to say I think *Ozma* does it -- MOPPeT about Ozma's feelings about skinny-dipping or even going topless on the beach is the same as that demure comedienne Rita Rudner: "I just can't bring myself to do it -- I mean, they've never been in the sun before, I'm afraid they might catch fire!" :) :) ( Maybe I should put an end to this thread before we get REALLY depraved! :) :) :) ) SMILES FOR GILI: Gili wrote: >Ciao! (who here can tell I'm in a good mood?) I'm glad you are! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 28, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:42:24 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 Michael T: You misattributed to me a message (sent by Badger in response to me) about eight-bit characters. That's okay. No skin off mine. However, this was *directly above* your message to Stephen Teller accepting *his* apology for misattributing someone else's message to you! I do love synchronicity, don't you? ;-D -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:17:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Barb DeJohn - I have a copy of _Bibliographia Oziana_. If you have your eye on a particular book, email me and I will send you what it says about that book. I have done this for several others previously. Eric - Usz ju, xf njhiu mjlf ju! Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 23:43:09 -0400 From: "< Badger >" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-96 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 << Badger: For the definitive word on the use of spell checkers by magic-workers, I highly recommend Harry Turtledove's THE CASE OF THE TOXIC SPELL DUMP. It's a pretty good fantasy/mystery with outrageous puns and a highly amusing parallel world that's -almost- like ours, but... (Although if you're not very familiar with Los Angeles it loses some of its appeal, I'd guess.) I think it's the sort of book most Oz fans would like. >> LOL: sounds like it should be fun. Is it along the lines of humour as, say, Robert Aspirin's MYTH books or more subtle like David Eddings' fantasy series? My signature "Thoughts for the Day" are from a long list e-mailed to me a few months ago. I change them about once a week or more, depending on how many people on my list has seen the latest one. -------------------- Thought for the Day.... "Car service: If it ain't broke, we'll break it." < Badger > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/vul ture.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Badger_GLG_AmerNational_Freeman/pil l-1.htm All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice; UCC 1-207 ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:37:25 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Crime and Punishment, et al Jane wrote: <> I'm sure that plays a part. My favorite Thompsons are probably JACK PUMPKINHEAD and LOST KING, the first and fourth (respectively) I read. On the other hand, I read LOST PRINCESS and LAND, two of my favorite Baums, relatively late if memory serves, though I read all the Baums in my childhood and all the Thompsons except JACK PUMPKINHEAD as an adult. (Depending on your definition. I borrowed my second and third Thompsons at 19 from a British collector, George Beal...I wonder if he's the same George Beal who's done some writing for the Disney comics of late?) <> One of the oldies stations recently played a recording of that song with a female singer (i.e., not the Munchkins from the soundtrack) that was somewhere on the Top 40 in the early '60's. Was that the one? Steve Teller wrote: <> Definitely. Even WISHING HORSE has an IE or two (the Dooners could have been left out, for instance), but I always thought they were part of the charm of Oz. <> Definitely! I still remember it (from one of the first OZIANAs I read), and it's definitely both Ozzy and horrifying. I don't for a minute think of it as the *real* Oz, but it *does* explain why, even though Professor Wogglebug is an insect and therefore should have six legs (and explicitly does in THE WOGGLE-BUG BOOK), he's usually shown with only four... Tyler Jones wrote: <> He also provides the inspiration for one of Rinkitink's songs in RINKITINK IN OZ. <> Well, I don't think Mombi necessarily got what she deserved. Even if you're in favor of capital punishment (and I'm not), it's usually meted out only for murder, and Mombi never killed anyone. (At least the only other Oz character threatened with capital punishment by the legitimate rulers of Oz, Eureka in DOTWIZ, was accused of killing a sentient creature.) Actually, Baum himself is rather consistent about being relatively lenient with villains. While his bad rulers like Ruggedo can come up with hideous punishments, Ozma and Glinda usually are content to deprive wicked rulers of their thrones...and even then only when more legitimate rulers, like the Three Adepts on Flathead Mountain, Princess Gloria in Jinxland, and of course Ozma herself are available...remember how Glinda wouldn't restore the Scarecrow to the throne of Oz, on the grounds that he had no more right to it than Jinjur did? (Remember, Ruggedo was overthrown by Tititi-Hoochoo, not by Ozma.) When they change people into harmless animals or objects, it's strictly in self-defense (as with Ugu and Kiki Aru...and, indeed, they reversed the latter spell and offered to reverse the former one), and the good characters kill only by accident (like the two witches Dorothy kills in WIZARD). Thompson could be a bit harsher on villains, but usually only on their second or third or later time out (Mombi and Ruggedo being the classic examples). And Skamperoo and Mustafa weren't really evil or dangerous, so Ozma saw no reason to deprive either of them of their thrones, especially since she figured she had no right at all to do so in Skamperoo's case (Skampavia being outside Oz and not subject to her rule). Yes, technically she had the same rights as Inga did in RINKITINK, since he'd invaded her country...but, if Gos and Cor had remained on the throne, Pingaree would have been in far more danger from them than Oz was from Skamperoo. OzBucket wrote: <> I really can't think of all that many, aside from those you mention and of course Queen Coo-ee-oh. There are a few beautiful but rather antisocial types (Queen Ann, Reera the Red, Gloma...maybe even, if you count animals, Eureka), but I don't think any of them really count as villains. <> Not to mention most of Dickens, much of Shakespeare, some of Mark Twain...I could go on and on. Not only is there nothing wrong with being episodic, but I even question including "Winnie-the-Pooh" and "Mary Poppins" on the list at all...those aren't novels but collections of short stories. One might just as well expect "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes," or the LITTLE WIZARD STORIES OF OZ, for that matter, to be tightly plotted. (Can't you tell I have no notion of being consistent in my titles, since one can't italicize in e-mail?) Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 14:33:59 +0300 (IDT) From: Avigail Bar-hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 I'm not even going to respond to one of the postings on the last digest, which raised my hackles a couple of times, including on subjects not realted to Oz, except to say: "well, I *did* like _Mary Poppins_, so there!" onwards: ********************SPOILER FOR "GLASS CAT"***************************** Hi David! So, I'm more or less in the middle of reading the book, when Trot&co. visit Cowtown (Cowville?). Elmer, Elsie and Daisy - is Elmer supposed to be the cow on "Elmer's Glue"? Who are Elsie and Daisy? One thing I don't get - it the Wizard were able to send the three of them to America, why not send Dorothy the same way in "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"? ********************END OF SPOILER************************************** That's all for today... Bye! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 08:33:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark K. DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 From Barbara DeJohn Hi Digest !!! Gili I am sure that the course you took on Oz is over now. How did it end up? Were the other students as discusted with the Prof. as you? I'm sure they at least got the right info with you being there. I certainly hope you got an "A". I would be interested in Oz things from Israel but I doubt if I have anything that would be worth trading for. I am very envious of the convention attendees. I was wondering which of the conventions has the most people attending and is there one that is better than the rest. I would like to go to one but since I didn't know anyone I was reluctant. Of course now I at least know names and feel like I know some of you from the Digest. The closest convention to me is in Delaware but that is still 6-7 hours away and if I fly it doesn't matter where I go. I hope that the club decides to have the convention at the Hotel Del because I would love to go there and the convention would be a good excuse. Barbara DeJohn 10333.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:55:31 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 On episodic vs. strong plot: Well, my AD&D campaigns tend to be the episodic (or as Danny said, "survival") stuff rather than "strong plot", so I guess I like that style. On title notations, John White asserts: > > My understanding is that underscores indicate *underlining*, and that for > italicizing one should use *asterisks*. Well, actually (and this dates back to the old RUNOFF software, precursor to troff), 'net conventions are that *this* is boldface, _this_ is underlining, and /this/ is italics (slanted, like an italic font, get it?) As far as titles go, though, while it is true that in typeset publications titles should be in italics, a longstanding convention in scholarly papers (such as the Ozzy Digest), limited as they were by the capabilities of most typewriters (and later, early computer printers) is that book titles (only) should be underlined. All that being said, however, I must note that before coming to this digest I had never seen the convention of all-caps for titles. However, it is easy to read (IMHO) , and furthermore, since many times abbreviations are used (e.g. DOTWIZ, LAND, etc.) rather than full titles, it wouldn't be proper to use the underline. Aaron: (second of two almost identical contributions :-) > hence in Judaism nudity is frowned upon and the dress of religious Jews > tends to be conservative. (....and the dress of Conservative Jews tends to be religious? :-) ) > Is Zim short for Zames or Zimothy? Well, over where you are in the city, there is a men's clothing store called "Zim's" (at least there used to be. I remember their commercials on WEVD radio: "Zoom gali, gali, gali, zoom over to Zim's...." (although in their case it might have been short for "Zimmerman" or something)) ozbucket (Chris??): As to profanity on forums, that is an America On-Line thing only. I suggest you ask that question of the management there. (By my count, there are only 19 Ozzy digest subscribers who are aol users...) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:06:11 -0500 (EST) From: cummingss@kenyon.edu Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 Hi all: I ran across an Oz play that I had not heard of before. It is titled The Way-out Wizard of Oz by Val R. Cheatham, and appears in Skits and Spoofs for Young Actors 1977 Boston: Plays, Inc. It is one of 10 royalty-free plays for children. Has anyone ever heard of this before? I didn't find it mentioned in the 1977-79 Baum Bugles. I don't really want to hold onto this copy, so who should I send it to? It seems like an interesting Oz pastiche. Perhaps someone will put together a "checklist" of Oz dramatical works in print someday? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 11:38:13 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: All that stuff Aaron: If you are disturbed by marching squashes, read RUNAWAY or suffer the Conse-Quinces. Actually the importation of Mangaboo genes into the Ozian gene pool is covered very skillfully in SBM1. Concerning REWOLF, this was supposedly a chapter left out of DORTHY IN OZ. Aaron (second posting): I am sorry *you* did not like MARY POPPINS, but I utterly deny that it is terrible. I loved the books when I was young, and in the last year I have read all the stories in all four of the books to my son (he is six) and he loved them and went on to read and reread them to himself. Please don't confuse your personal tastes for absolute judgments. "I did not like" does not equal "this is terrible." The books are British, and perhaps a certain amount of Anglophilia is required for appreciating them. The problem with *just* writing the title is that is can be difficult to determine whether it is the book or the subject that is being referred to. The distinction between italics and underlining is moot, underlining was used for italics because typewriters would not permit italics. E-mail does not permit underlining *or* italics, Having underscoring and asterisks, I here declare that from now on *I* will use CAPS for book titles, and quotation marks for quotation marks. I will use asterisks for emphasis. Ipse dixit! Gann: Strange as it may seem, pedantic scholastic discussions dealing with, catagorization, definition, and the reconciliation of cruxes ARE fun, to some perverted minds, like mine. I must confess that MAGICAL MIMICS has always had a special place in my affections, perhaps because it was the first new Oz book published in my memory. BTW, it is not always impossible to find surprising bargains. It was only a few years ago that I found a fine 1st edition of SILVER PRINCESS in dust jacket at a very knowledgable used bookstore in Chicago for $15. Ken: I believe that Dorothy is identified as Aunt Em's sister's daughter, although I am unsure of the reference. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:29:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > > Come to think of it, how come only women work in Glinda's castle? I > can't remember ever hearing a reference to even one man working there. > Hmm... Sounds like the basis for a story... Nah, hold your horses. Jack Snow has Glinda's male servants appear in "A Murder in Oz." > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-96 > > I think QUEEN ANN is the Ozziest... *blush* > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest stuff > > Neill's stuff-- > As I said before, I think that Neill's books were written with the > Wogglebug himself as an informant, given the propensity for punning and > egregious exaggeration. Or maybe Neill just wasn't as good at transcribing/rewriting the events as Baum and Thompson. All Oz authors inject a part of themselves into the story, it just can't be helped. (Oh, and yes, even the best Royal Historians make mistakes.) > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: digest > > Off subject: Isn't there some kind of ruling concerning vulgarity on the Net? > I do not mean the Digest at all. I am referring to places like the > Nickelodeon Blabbatorium Chat-room (see under Kids Only). The rules state > that no foul language is to be used, yet it's there in great abundance. Last > night, Oldsmobile sponsored a Celebrity Spotlight interview in which the > listeners were saying the most vulgar and horrific things about the celebrity > being interviewed (thankfully, I think the online host screened the postings > that she actually had to see). It was annoying, to say the least, and got in > the way of my enjoying the interview. Isn't it illegal to post that kind of > material? Especially in a children's forum! Illegal, no, not really, but in VERY poor taste, yes. Since you're on AOL, and these sound like AOL-specific areas and not part of the Internet as a whole, you'll have to complain to someone at AOL. They MUST have some place to complain about this to. The problem with chat areas, though, is that the offending words disappear so quickly, and the offender can deny saying anything should an official call him on it. To an extent, e-mail is also protected, since it's not available for the public, just the people the mail is sent to. (Junk e-mail -- or spamming -- is another story, however, and Laura has gotten a few spammers kicked off their systems for doing so.) > Oh, I should mention this again: I have the copies of Lurline with color > plates and cardboard covers. I had them made up as several online folk voiced > an interest in them. So far, only a couple of you have actually sent in your > orders, however (thanks. The books should be arriving shortly). There are > still a few that I'm not sure got the message: Please send $10.00 to me at > 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM 87002. Thanks! Winkies is in only two weeks, I WAS planning on getting my copy there and save you the postage... > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Eric: > If I can find "A Generic Oz Story", I'll put it on the web, or ask Dave for > permission to post it here, as it is relatively short. Dave, when he finds it, can you send it out as an extra, separate from the Digest proper, so that those who DON'T want to read it won't have to be subjected to it? > Jim McQueen: > I'm sure Eric Gjovaag (or somebody else) will refer you to Herm Beiber... Already have. And Robin Olderman, and Books of Wonder. > IE's versus plot: > I tend to agree with Dave about the nature of adevture stories: Either they > are episodic ("look, another strange looking kingdom!") or based on a strong > plot. Also, books can be in between, so we have a scale, with totally > episodic stories on one end and strong plots on the other. > > IMHO, neither one is inherently better than the other. For example, _Road_ > and _Captain Salt_ are both very episodic, yet I really like _Salt_ and did > not care for_Road_. _Wishing Horse_ is an example of a strongly plotted > book that I like and _Shaggy Man_ is a strongly plotted book (I think) that > I did not like. To use a similar but non-Ozzy example, in "The Chronicles of Narnia," "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" is probably one of the weaker titles, because it is so episodic -- traveling from island to island, going on a voyage of discovery -- yet it is also probably my favorite book in the series. > Chris wanted us to start some new threads, so here's one: What do you think > of the legal system in Oz, as represented by the trials in _Dot&Wiz_ and > _Patchwork Girl_? I think Ozma is a fair and just judge, and I hope the ACLU, good as I think they are, doesn't get wind of the Ozian legal system... > From: Kenneth Shepherd > Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-26 *posting* > > A research question--Is Dorothy Gale related (by blood) to Uncle Henry or Aunt > Em? It seems to me that this question was addressed somewhere by I can't > locate it in my back-issue _Bugles_. Can anyone guide me? There was an article about Dorothy's family in the "Bugle" back in '68 or so (one of the few issues I don't have now -- c'mon, Club, more "Best of the Bugle" volumes!). I'm not sure if it will help, but you may want to check out Dorothy and Zeb's discussion of their geneologies in the opening chapter of "Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz." > From: "Aaron S. Adelman" > To: Dave Hardenbrook > > 3) Chris, what's this about Tom (from The Shaggy Man of Oz) getting a > husband in a short story? Chris hasn't read it, and I'm sure you haven't, so I'll tell you both: Read the story! (Oh, all right, if you must know: No, Tom doesn't get married, but he is gay, and his longtime companion has just moved out on him when the story begins. This is NOT a spoiler, as it has no bearing on the story itself, and little connection to what happens.) > (Sidenote: The Magical Monarch of Mo is available at > http://rrnet.com/~djamund/books/index.html, thanks to Dennis and Warren, > for those who want to find out how the conflict is resolved.) I believe Dover is still selling an edition, as well, for those who like their books to be in book form. > ***WARNING! REVIEW ALERT! BEWARE OF SHOOTING VENOM AND SPOILERS! You also should have warned us that you'd already sent in a review of these, and this was the second time we'd see it... > From: Gili Bar-Hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-96 > > Eric - *I* like reading your opinions. You could e-mail them to me > privately if you don't think anyone else is interested, but I think > you're wrong... Actually, it's more a case of, "I've said it all already, why should I waste everyone's time now?" It's not like my opinions really COUNT for anything, or that I'll change the world or people's minds (not that I'd want to do the latter anyway)... > (who here can tell I'm in a good mood?) /me raises hand. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: (Debatably) Ozzy Things :) > > ( Maybe I should put an end to this thread before we get REALLY > depraved! :) :) :) ) Chris and I have both made VERY broad hints that perhaps it was time to put the whole swimming thing to rest, which no one seems to have picked up on... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:30:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Rich and Aaron: It is possible that Jinjur's vegetables have only been animated by magic and are not "alive", similar to the flying fruit in the XANTH series. Aaron alone: I myself do not remember EVER seeing a man employed in Glinda's castle, in or out of the FF. Aside from calling the EEOC, this could be an interesting novel. It could also explain why I spend so much time there :-) Aaron again: in the name of consistency, Chris and I have assumed that the forest in _Acinad_ and _Magic Diamond_ only covered a small portion of the Desert bordering on the Munchkin country and they were exaggerating when they claimed that their forest covered the entire desert. Also, it is true that _Red Reera_ was far too short, but I gave it four stars anyway because what was there was good. As for the holes in the plot, that just opens the door for even MORE Oz books! John White: I am an underscore addict, ever since an instructor recommended them in Computer_Science_101 for variables. Gann349: I definitely agree with you that "Episodic/Strong_Plot" (was that another underscore? :-) ) is not the only way to look at a story. That is just one way of many to catagorize and analyze, even though you are less than thrilled with doing this. From your hints, I assume that you are an Oz author. I won't pry further, as you obviously want to keep your identity secret. Anyway, a person's love of Oz and Oz books can manifest itself in many ways. Some people love to watch the movie over and over. Some enjoy reading the Oz books and only think of them as fun stories with no baggage. Others love to search for hidden symbolism. Still others like to relate them to each other and by resolving incosistancies, use the Oz books to define a timeline of the history of Oz. There are many other ways in which people express their love of Oz as well, by writing books, drawing pictures, working behind the scenes at the Oz club, and so on. My point is that I and some others catagorize and "rate" the Oz books, and search to resolve conflict in the Oz books and present them as a flowing history of Oz BECAUSE we love Oz so much and we find a lot of joy and fun in doint so. It is our nature to probe further, and to ask "why?", and not to be content with just taking everything at face value. Do we love Oz as wonderful stories? Yes, but Oz is also so much more. This is OUR way of loving Oz. I will admit, however, that over-analysis does tend to squeeze the story dry and turn it into little more than a statistical analysis, but if you are careful, you can have Oz in all ways. I am convinced that everybody on this digest is here for their love of Oz in one way or another and that all of our contributions and feelings are equally good and serve to further the greatness that is the Land of Oz. And yes, Eric, that includes your opinions, too! :-) Eric: (Ahem). Well, then, let me say that... Kabumpo: STOMP! :-) Eric: Yes, the byte count in the last few days has been inching upward, mainly because (happily) some people are posting for the first time. Eric again: Watch out for Rich-Text-Format, or RTF, e-mail. This does not exist yet, but will allow us to use such cool things as Boldface, Underline and Italics. Steve: While it is true that Mombi did not do anything really terrible in _Gnome King_, her punishment was probably based on all the things she had done in the past. Ozma finally realized that Mombi, even without her innate magical power, was still a danger, and decided to get rid of the threat once and for all. Incidentally, Mustafa did did a "pre-punishment", when Glinda threatened Mudgers with the loss of their heads if they ever left their borders. This is the only time that an entire kingdom has been treated in this way. Chris: It is true that "the book" did not mention the lack of power of the belt, and very clearly stated that the entire tunnel had been filled, but does that necessarily "prove" that it happened? Let's track this info down to it's ultimate source. Baum said that the entire tunnel had been filled. He probably got this info from Ozma or Dorothy, who sent the letter. If Dorothy told him, then Ozma probably told her. How did Ozma know? She commanded the belt to fill the tunnel, and then just assumed that it had been done. I doubt that she would have used the magic picture to verify it, since the belt had always done what it was commanded to do. It is also possible that the weakened belt did fill the tunnel, but the material was tenuous and over the years, it slowly vanished, again leaving only the ends sealed. The key point here is that we do not see the tunnel being filled first-hand. We are only told so because the leaders of Oz THINK that it was filled. Vulgarity on the Net: There are no hard and fast rules on the 'Net, with the possible exception of distributing child pornography. As for "dirty words", people can send them as oten as they want, and there are no laws against this. Some chat rooms are goverened by a moderator, who can censor out offending data, but for the most part, the Internet is a freewheeling place with little (or no) holds barred. As Denver Pyle on The Andy Griffith Show once said, "Just jump in and hang on!". :-) As for this digest (which you did not specifically ask about), Dave deletes personal attacks and other such things. Ken: In _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_, Zeb refers to "Your Uncle Henry's wifes sister". This implies that Dorothy is related to Uncle Henry. Also, in _Emerald City_, Uncle Henry remembers Dorothy's "dead mother". This seems to suggest that Uncle Henry is the brother of Dorothy's mother. ********** THE MARCH LAUMER SOLUTION ********** According to March, Henry and Dorothy's father are brothers, and Aunt Em and Dorothy's mother are sisters. Therefore, brothers married sisters and thus Dorothy is blood-related to both. This situation was not uncommon back then. ********** END OF MARCH LAUMER ********** Gili: The rutabaga thing was Aaron's idea. Ozma did not specify a material to fill the tunnel with, so the Magic Machine selected one at random. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 16:32:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 Interesting thing starting to show up in DIGEST: We're starting a thread about other fantasy faves...and non-faves. I'll throw in my $ .02. I don't *care* if MARY POPPINS and the sequels are episodic. I loved them as a child. The concept of real magic's being accessible in the real world was lovely to contemplate. I first read THE LORD OF THE RINGS when I was 20-something. I didn't like it. I tried again a coupla years later and adored it. Point here is that is wasn't an age thing that determined my opinion; I just wasn't in the right mood for it the first time and read only because so many of my friends were sure I'd enjoy the trilogy. It might've helped if they'd eased me into it by telling me to read THE HOBBIT first. I still read LOTR annually as a Christmas gift to myself. I never much liked the Carroll ALICE books. Too nightmarish and cruel for my taste. WINNIE THE POOH never "grabbed" me as a kid and certainly could not do so now that I'm an adult. I was introduced (by Jim Haff) to E. Nesbitt and Edgar Eager when I was about 30. They "grabbed" me; again, I like believing that Psammeads and Mouldiwarps could just show up on a beach someday. :-) Punctuating titles: Originally, book titles were underlined, not italicized, in handwriting and in typing. While that may support the argument for underscoring before and after a title, my own preference--for no particular reason except that it "looks better" to me--is to capitalize titles that would normally be italicized. L-o-o-n-g post. Sorry! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 18:09:19 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: digest (what else?) To: DAVEH47@delphi.com Message-id: <960627180917_565527056@emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, things were very interesting today. I liked the idea about the -rutabagas was it? Ruby red ones, no doubt (will anyone catch that reference, other than EG, that is...). It may not be HA, but it was funny. Rinny and I both laughed when we saw it. Two reviewers had a problem with Magic Diamond. Again, you may not like the story (it was written by a group of kids, so I don't think you can expect Steinbeck), but it is HA. For all it may be worth, I think that the non-Buckethead Wiz Kids books hold the record as the best-written Oz books by any group of kids. I especially liked the first few, which had Melody Grandy covers, but all have their merit. The latest one, Before There was Oz, is not out yet, but I am anxiously awaiting my chance to see it! I have seen a non-Oz Wiz Kids book that is a sort of introduction to it, and it is great! Someone else stated that the characters in Healing Power acted out of character. Sorry, but I read the book and found no such occurence. Maybe the reviewer was stating a personal opinion rather than a true review of the book? On a possibly-related subject, it is not proper to assume anyone is absolutely good or absolutely bad. Ruggedo is able to do good at times, and he is also able to grow and to mature (whether or not he ages physically). Look at Skamperoo, for example. He was bad, but he overcame it. And he did it in the course of a single volume. Ruggedo took much longer, and even then only became helpful to Oz when it served his own best interests. I would say the opposite is true of Kaliko, who started out as a nice guy, but who later went bad (at least to a point - remember, no one is all good or all bad).The Wicked Witch of the East is said to have enslaved the Munchkins, but just how enslaved were they? Seems they were treated awfully well for slaves. Boq was rich? Hey, if slaves can be rich, I think I should look for employment there. Good and bad are not absolutes. If the reviewer was upset by Ruggedo's actions, they were not HI at the time. Also, we tend to assume that whole races are either good or bad. That is not so. Examples, Kericot the Considerate Kalidah or the Rhyming Dictionary of Bookville. Am I supposed to actually comment on someone's assessment that Reera fornicated? It was not stated outright in the book if she did. Implied? You can make your own judgement on that. I tend to be too moralistically-minded for my own good. Well, Marcus was a strange character. I can not always explain his hidden meanings or purposes in anything. I am still trying to figure out why he would be involved in a rag like Radioactive Teddy Bear from H*ll. But I thought Reera was well written (though admittedly much too short), and the artwork was among Mebes' best- especially the color cover. And even though it really confused a stunning number of readers, I personally loved the idea of reprinting a page from Glinda's Great Book! As for the questions brought up, I am sorry to say that the author is not around to respond to them. I guess you'll have to do the research and write a sequel that answers them:-). I wonder if my little happy face will show up... If not, I was not really serious about that sequel. Though if you write it, I will certainly consider it for possible publication. But don't hold your breath, as I am now hoping to concentrate on getting Locasta ready. (Dave! I've still not got it! When did you send it?) Okay, speaking of mail glitches, I have now sent two disks with AMMSAIO to Melody. The first arrived with all but a few words deleted, while I have just learned that the second arrived with slightly more, but most was lost. I had checked the disks (especially the 2nd) prior to mailing, but they are not making it intact. Can some computer wiz tell me what's wrong? I have sent Melody other books on disk without this problem. However, I was using a Mac Plus at the time, and am now using a IIci. Maybe this is not as great an upgrade as I had been told? Somebody please inform me. Thanks to Tyler for suggesting a new topic of discussion. I was the one who asked for it, so I am glad someone noticed. The Ozian legal system, IMHO, seems to change from moment to moment. At least from book to book. Mostly, what is to be done in any situation seems to depend on the mood of our Queen. However, to consider one of your examples, I think Eureka's behavior in court was absolutely unacceptable. Had she been executed on the spot, I would say it was her own fault. Not that I do not like her, just that she was acting like a total dinknose at that time. Seems to me that Eureka has matured a lot since then, too. But she's still a cute little thing, isn't she? For more on Eureka, the Ozian Library of Congress recommends the following books: The Ozmapolitan of Oz, The Colorful Kitten of Oz, er... uh, er... Gee, I think it's time someone wrote a new Eureka adventure. Can these REALLY be her only ones? She did show up in a comic book, and had at least a cameo in Willard's cartoon show, and I think walk-ons in some books. But no new books starring her at all? It has been too long... ====================================================================== Date: Friday 28-Jun-96 02:28:35 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things GENERIC OZ STORY: Eric wrote: >Dave, when he finds it, can you send it out as an extra, separate from the >Digest proper, so that those who DON'T want to read it won't have to be >subjected to it? Unless it's *really* long, I probably won't split it off from the main Digest, so you'll just have to grin and bear it. :) :) _HEALING POWER OF OZ_: Chris wrote: >Someone else stated that the characters in Healing Power acted out of >character. Sorry, but I read the book and found no such occurence. I think this may have been a reference to Ruggedo being a good guy in the story, which *seems* out of character, but is explained by the events in my _Locasta_! FORESTS IN THE DEADLY DESERT???: As Tyler said, _Acinad_/_Magic Diamond_, are considered HA and that the forest just covers one little part of the Desert. And maybe by now it's dwindled to little more than a oasis. Has anyone ever addressed the possibility of oases on the Deadly Desert? It was an idea I toyed with in a *very early* draft of _Locasta_ then discarded (because it didn't fit the story as it turned out, not because I don't think it's a good idea). MY MOPPET ABOUT THE TUNNEL: When Ozma commanded the Belt to "Fill the tunnel" (not specifying what to fill it *with*), the magical "operating system" (Lurline's Adelmanian Machine or my "Magic of Everything") checked and found that the tunnel was *already* filled -- with *AIR*! So magic_belt::flood_fill() returned with the "error": "Tunnel already filled - no action taken", which Ozma never saw because the Belt has no CRT display. The ends of the tunnel were sealed only to ensure the air would not escape. :) :) :) REERA: Chris, I agree with you about _Red Reera_. I see no eveidence that Reera fornicated. I frankly really enjoyed _Reera_! Just one thing, Chris: _Red Reera_ was neither written NOR illustrated by Marcus Mebes! I too don't understand what that _Radioactive Teddy Bear...Destroys Oz_ was all about...The one thing that I see that Marcus had in common with me is that he used the same model as me for Glinda: Irish Singer Enya! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 29, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 19:01:08 +0000 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Questions for a Royal Illustrator I'm here with my MunchCon co-chair hat on to ask a question that comes (actually) from Bill Stillman. As, I HOPE all of you know, Bill will be interviewing (for the very first time anywhere) Evelyn Copelman at the Munchkin Convention. For those who don't know, Evelyn was chosen by Bobbs-Merrill to re-illustrate "The Wizard of Oz" and "The Magical Monarch of Mo" in the mid-1940's. The question is: What would *you* like Bill to ask Miss Copelman in his interview? (For those who can't attend, don't despair, Bill will be writing up his interview for the Bugle, which, coincidentally, he edits now.) So, questions, anyone? -- Eleanor Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 17:53:45 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 >don't see why we really need to "rate" oz books. obviously, the majority of >us read them because we love oz. i find it disturbing that there is such a >need to categorize and define, such a thirst to reconcile discrepancies. for >god's sake, OZ SHOULD BE FUN!!! But atty, for some of us, anyway, categorizing, defining, reconciling, and rating Oz books *IS* fun. > (BTW, we need two things >from the Club, which I may get to work on some time myself: An index >to "Oziana" and a "Best of Oziana.") Dare I echo in saying "Here, here!" >Young people can certainly use magic, but in most cases, it is magic >that has been prepared for them (magic belt, wishing pills, etc.). >While age in and of itself does not increase your magical power, I >hold by the experience rule: ie, older people are more likely to have >been at it a while and thus know more about it. But with a non-aging world, why would Glinda or Mombi or anyone *BE* old if they could stay young and still have the magical power they have now? (Of course, maybe the more experience you have, the more you WANT to be older and your bodies ages at your wish.) >What do you think of the legal system in Oz, as represented by the >trials in _Dot&Wiz_ and _Patchwork Girl_? Hmm, I'll let that question digest a while (no pun intended) while I formulate a responce. But this leads me to a similar question that always bugs me-- If magic is against the law, why do Oz heroes still practice it? Not only do villans do magic (and get punished for it) but Glinda and the Wizard regularly practice and use magic, as does Ozma herself! IIRC, Ozma made no qualifications on her law forbidding magic, yet she only enforces the law (and at different degrees of severity) when she wants to. Did I miss something? TTFN, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 19:16:46 -0700 (PDT) From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: book contest concerns OK, Judges and other Oz Fans. Can we advise Scott as to how to proceed? And remind him of the copyright provisions relative to the contest. Jim --- On Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:09:16 -0700 Public-use Workstation wrote: I have no e-mail address. I am using the University Library. I have a major query with regard to my manuscript which is now half done. Peter Brown was a very undeveloped everyman character created by Ruth Plumly Thompson. I have used him in my novel because he had no real character (unlike, say, Carter Green or Kabumpo), and he was the only one who met the needs of the story I wanted to tell. References to Thompson events are quite vague. Also, I have a character who is modeled on Nipsey Russell's Tinman performance. He is clearly a different character, but blatantly inspired by the film. Also I have references to most of the major Oz films, including a reference to ruby slippers (in the context of the film; the book resurrects the silver shoes) as well as a character who makes fun of Ted Turner. According to Polking's _Beginning Writer's Answer Book_ this is acceptable. (Just look at the title of Al Franken's new bestseller.) I was wondering if that type of material would be acceptable for the contest. Sincerely, Scott Hutchins 1504 E. 83rd St. Indianapolis, IN 46240-2372 Current E-mail: nobody@iupui.com (worthless, any response will just be erased.) -----------------End of Original Message----------------- ------------------------------------- Name: International Wizard of Oz Club E-mail: International Wizard of Oz Club Date: 6/27/96 Time: 7:16:46 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:47:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Aaron - There is one man who works in Glinda's Castle. He takes out the garbage. :) Gann349@aol.com aka atty????? You're an attorney? What books did you write? This cryptic address reminds me to grumble about same. It would be nice to have a poster's name at the front of his/her post so we know who is talking up front and can get to know each other better. This is just a suggestion Eric! Ken - If you have the misfortune to read "Was" you will find out a lot about Dorothy's relationship to her aunt and uncle. In the "real" Oz books, someone else will have to remind you. Dave - What city/time zone are you in? Is there a cut off time of day/night for submissions? Or, did you censor me again?? Curiously, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:25:30 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 Atty: Certainly Oz should be fun! But for some of us, at any rate, part of the fun is treating the books as works of literature and critiquing them on that basis (though the standards aren't, thankfully, those used by modern mainstream litcrit types). All of the FF are _ipso facto_ Historically Accurate, but it's obvious that some of the adventures described are more interesting and important than others, though there's clearly considerable disagreement (healthily so) as to which those may be. And I, at least, find the interplay among Digest folks relating why they feel one book or another is better to be one of the most interesting - and fun - parts of the whole discussion. I don't, incidentally, know which Oz books are yours - don't recognize either your logon ID or your signature. This most likely means I haven't read them, so I can't give an opinion. Eric: Yeah, Harry Turtledove is a really nice guy, as well as one of my favorite writers. (TOXIC SPELL DUMP isn't typical of his work, though; most of it is fairly serious and strongly based on history - which is understandable, since he has a Ph.D. in history, with specialization in Byzantine history.) Steve: Well, Mombi thought she was dumping Snip down a regular well, in which case he'd have been miserable for a very long time, even if Oz people can't drown or starve to death. In fact, I'd have to say that dumping an Oz person down a well might be considered worse than killing someone, since they can definitely feel hunger (Pompa before they found the Soup Sea in KABUMPO) and probably cold and wet when immersed in water (though I can't think of a specific instance - Dorothy and Sir Hokus in ROYAL BOOK and Trot in LOST KING didn't seem very happy about getting wet, but it wasn't specifically stated that they were uncomfortable). Whether that was enough to justify destroying her is a judicial question that depends on Ozma's laws, I suppose - but it seems to me to be worse than Eureka's eating a piglet, which Ozma said was a capital offense. There are passages that could be removed from most of Baum's books without affecting the story, too, though probably not as many as in RPT's or Neill's. You could take almost any passage out of DOTWIZ between their leaving the Mangaboos and getting to Oz, or almost anything that happened after the first interview between the Wizard and Ozma after they got there, without affecting the story more than just shortening it. Much the same is true of ROAD, or the various places Dorothy and her party visited in EC. In PG you could leave out everything that happened between Ojo leaving Dr. Pipt's and getting to the EC, except for the man-eating plants that brought about their meeting with Shaggy, plus the Tottenhots, the Lazy Quadling, and the Trick River. In LP you could leave out the Merry-Go-Round Mountains and Thi, as well as the ferryman the Frogman and Cayke meet. In TW you could leave out the Loons and the jaguar and Tommy Kwikstep and the Hip-po-gy-raf. In GLINDA you could leave out the spiders and the mist maidens. None of these incidents do anything more than lengthen the book. Chris D.: A law was passed earlier this year (or maybe late last) prohibiting indecency on the Internet, but it was overturned (quite properly, imho) as soon as it got to court as being unconstitutionally vague. I sent you my $10 for Lurline almost two weeks ago now; I trust it reached you OK? Tyler: I own the entire FF, and all the IWOC and BoW non-FF books, but not many of the others. The problem with ironing out inconsistencies in private e-mail is that only the sender and recipient get to see the arguments. Maybe it would be an idea to put together a subset of the Digest folks who are interested in that kind of thing, and do it like the old N-way letters I did in the pre-Internet days, where each member of the group sent copies of each posting to everyone else in the group. I think most E-mail systems let people set up group addresses like that, so all you have to do is click on the "Oz Reconciliation Group" or whatever and your message goes to all of them, and then replies come back to everyone as well. If the kind of detailed discussion that you and I and a few others like to do on reconciling apparent discrepancies is boring the majority of the Digest people, it wouldn't be hard to take it off the Digest. I don't want to stop the discussions, but I'm willing to do it a different way. I don't, though, think that one-on-one E-mail is a good way to do it. I dunno - I don't think SHAGGY MAN was all that strongly plotted; it's pretty episodic, though not as much as many of Thompson's. She frequently had her oddball kingdoms take up only a chapter, or at most two, whereas Snow did devote several chapters to the Valley of Romance and the fairy beavers, although they, like Hightown, were simply way-stations along the main course of the plot. I don't really think many of the Oz books have strong plots, and the few that do are all among the better ones. WIZARD, LAND, OZMA, RINKITINK, LOST PRINCESS, YELLOW KNIGHT, OJO, SPEEDY, WISHING HORSE, HANDY MANDY, SILVER PRINCESS, MAGICAL MIMICS, and MERRY-GO-ROUND are about it for the strong plots, imho, with MAGIC and PURPLE PRINCE on the margin. Of those, MAGICAL MIMICS is about the weakest, and I put it somewhere near the middle overall. There are episodic books that are quite good - PATCHWORK GIRL, for instance - but all of the worst ones are episodic. The legal system in Oz? Not one of its strong points, I'm afraid; highly arbitrary and with no apparent philosophical foundation other than "Ozma is good and wise and therefore whatever she decides must be just." (I really do have to sit down and write my critique of Ozma-as-ruler. It would be nice if I could get it done in time for the research table at either Winkie or Munchkin...) Kenneth: You and Eloise Jarvis McGraw both rate GRAMPA a great deal higher than I do. Aside from the fact that it's almost entirely episodic (which needs something with the well-defined goal and charm of PATCHWORK GIRL to carry off), it contains two major characters (Here-I-go-by-the-name-of-Bill and the Forgetful Poet) that really grate on me when I have to read about them. But "it's simply a case of 'chacun a son gout'"... OTOH, I really like FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN, which I consider the best of the IWOC non-FF books (though OZMAPOLITAN comes close), and easily above the average of the FF. I believe there was an article in the BUGLE some years back (in the '60s or '70s) regarding the probably relationship of Dorothy and Uncle Henry and Aunt Em. I believe this because I wrote a short essay on the subject a couple of years ago for the Research Group and Fred Meyer stepped on it with an "it's been done". There isn't a lot of evidence, but the best there is seems to be that Dorothy is the daughter of Uncle Henry's sister, with a secondary possibility that she may be the daughter of his niece, so that he's really her great-uncle. (If Zeb's statement in DOTWIZ that they're second cousins is correct, then it would have to be that way, but most people seem to think that he was just using "second cousins" to mean "fairly distant relations".) Aaron: Re Tom's acquiring a husband, you have to read Eric Shanower's "Abby" in OZ STORY MAGAZINE 2. Since I doubt you can get it on ILL, and you seem unwilling or unable to spend money on Oz stuff, you probably will just have to continue to wonder. I agree with you about MARY POPPINS, by the way. My wife and I have generally similar tastes in books (good thing, or our house would be overflowing far more than it already is), but she doesn't like Oz and I don't like Mary Poppins. (I liked the Disney movie very much, incidentally. To those who say, "But it's not like the book," I say, "Fortunately!") Gili: Actually, I looked up the passage in EMERALD CITY and it says, "Ozma used the Magic Belt to close up the tunnel, so that the earth underneath the desert sands became as solid as it was before the Nomes began to dig." It doesn't say it's solid rock, though (which it was before), just solid, so maybe it was solid rutabagas - or even solid water, which would melt and run away in time. And it doesn't say that she closed up the part under Oz at all, just "under the desert sands". Considering some of the arguments I've seen for reconciling apparent contradictions in the Bible, I find this one easy to accept. Dave: I'm not sure about JQ Adams being the most famous skinny-dipper of all - LBJ was another one who got quite a bit of notoriety on the subject, though you're probably too young to remember that. (You are, of course, old enough to remember JQ Adams... ) I'm off to Cincinnati for an SF convention tomorrow, so I probably won't post again until Monday. (Visualizing sighs of relief all over the Digest.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:19:32 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" <104270.2374@compuserve.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 Aaron: "Zim" is short for "Wizard!" (If you cannot guess how, the answer lurks in the to-be-published SBMII, in a brief exchange between Zim and Jinnicky.) Does that end your suspense? :-) :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:31:49 -0700 (MST) From: Ozma Subject: Oz pages I am a graduate student & this summer we (the university) are making an educational CDROM teaching the uses of the Internet. I am trying to show people things like (for instance) what happens when they click on a link. So I need people who are willing to let me use their web pages for this...*hint hint*. I don't have a very big screen area for my instsruction. So, I can't very well show your entire page, just a portion of it. But I need to have e-mail permission for anyone's site that I use. I think it would be fun to have a couple of Oz pages at least in there. ------------- Sandy Andrews ozma@asu.edu http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/oz ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:30:52 -0400 From: DavidXOE@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 06-28-96 Hmm...I know I sent you a rather long response to yesterday's Digest; I wonder if it went astray or just got delayed somehow? I'm off for Cincinnati this weekend, so if it isn't in the Saturday Digest I'll try to re-create it. (I should probably save my responses as a temporary measure till they turn up on the Digest, to avoid having to start over if one gets lost - though this would be only the second time, I think, that one apparently has disappeared.) Badger: TOXIC SPELL DUMP is so different from Asprin's Myth books (which I also love) that comparisons aren't too meaningful. And I've never read Eddings, so I can't compare that either. Probably the closest comparison might be with some of the Pratt-de Camp collaborations, particularly THE CARNELIAN CUBE or THE LAND OF UNREASON; less with the Harold Shea series. Still, the humor is more in that vein (aside from the puns) rather than Asprin's. Rich: I know Ella Fitzgerald recorded "Ding, Dong, the Witch Is Dead" (as well as "Over the Rainbow") as part of THE HAROLD ARLEN SONGBOOK back in the Sixties, and since she just died a couple of weeks ago they've been playing a lot of her music lately; I'd guess that's the one you heard. One could say that it was an abuse of power when Dorothy and the Wizard strong-armed the sovereign kingdom of the Nomes into releasing Inga's parents. That the result was good doesn't mean that it was justified. Thompson was pretty tough on Mooj and Glegg and Wutz their first times out... I think Jinjur qualifies as a beautiful villainess in LAND, though she reforms afterwards. And how about the Queen of Catty Corners? Gili: ******************Spoiler for GLASS CAT****************** It's Cowville - actually, that whole segment arose because my friend Bruce Coville named the title character in one of his books (MY TEACHER GLOWS IN THE DARK) "Hoo-Lan" - who's a short, fat, baldheaded blue alien. I am neither short nor blue! But to answer your question, yes, the Elmer is the same as he of Elmer's Glue, though in the beginning he was just the husband of Elsie, the Borden Cow, who was featured in milk commercials from at least the Forties up into the Sixties. And the Wizard sent them to America after he became a real wizard, probably in the Thirties sometime. *****************End Spoiler for GLASS CAT***************** And it's time to hit the road for Cinsanity, so I'll finish responding to today's Digest on Monday, probably. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:48:05 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-28-96 Barb DeJohn - Yes the course is over. Still have to write an essay for my grade, though, and it's going to be a yucky essay, because I must use five specific quotations which have nothing to do with Oz. Don't ask. As for how other students responded to the class - suffice it to say, attendance dwindled dramatically from class to class. At the begining of the semester, the classroom was so packed that I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than 50 students in it. By the end of the semester the number was more or less twenty. Most of the people stayed on because they had no choice, everyone I talked to thought like me that this course was an outright disgrace. At first, I prepared things to bring to class and talk about, and Dr. Kagan seemed to be happy with this. But then he wouldn't let me talk about the things I had brought. I would raise my hand to speak, he'd say: "I'll just finish this thought, and let Gili add something". Half an hour later, I'd raise my hand again, and he'd say the same thing again. Or else he'd let me start talking, and before I'd completed my first sentence he'd interrupt and talk about something completely different. He didn't say ANYTHING interesting the entire semester. Most of the classroom time was taken up with his preaching to the students who had arrived about how irresponsible the students who hadn't arrived were. This was not merely the worst possible course that could have been given about _THE WIZARD OF OZ_, it's the worst class I've ever taken, period. Which is why I wrote very little about it to the digest. But nice of you to remember and ask, Barbara! Gann = Ryan Gannaway? Eric - DAWN TREADER was my favorite Narnia book too! It's true that books like the MARY POPPINS BOOKS, the PADDINGTON books, Beverly Cleary's RAMONA books are more like collections of short stories than novels. But usually, there is some process that can be traced from the begining to the end. In at least one of the MARY POPPINS books, all the characters from all the intermediate chapters meet in the end. Jane - I think it was a good idea to publish that information about the reilly&Britton/Reilly&Lee imprints in the GAZETTE. Personally, I don't have much oppurtunity to evaluate old Oz books other than my own, and I have my own copy of Bibliographia Oziana. But I've known kids to really get into cataloging and authenticating their collections. Bye! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:33:50 -0700 (PDT) From: ehornecker@tristar.uucp.netcom.com (Elise Hornecker) Dave -- Applause! Applause! Your MOPPeT that the tunnel was already filled with air and the belt simply closed the ends to keep the air inside was marvelous! That solves it in my mind! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:33:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Rich: I guess the only gripe I had about _Rinkitink_ was that Dorothy rolled into the Nome King's Dominions like a Sherman Tank and lorded it over Kaliko, treating him like a servant. Throughout the FF, Oz has treated the Nome country like a conquered province. One possibility is that Tititi-Hoochoo, after sending Quox to banish Ruggedo, "assigned" Ozma the responsibility of overseeing the Nome kingdom to make sure they behaved themselves. Chris D: Your comment on the "Wicked" Witch of the East puts you fairly and squarely on the side of March Laumer himself! :-) In one of his stories, Uncle Henry and Boq are discussing her and Henry was trying to find out just what mean and terrible things she did. Henry asked about such things as slavery, torture, imprisonment, etc. and Boq kept saying she didn't do any of those things. Anyway, Henry kept pressing Boq and Boq finally admitted that they only bad thing she ever did was to build a technical school and force all the Munchkin men to learn usefull skills. It was I myself who made the statement about the people from _Healing Power_ acting out of character. I'll have to look at it again. Reera's (ahem) activities: Whether or not the book stated that she, uh, "participated", the plot of the book revolved around her quest to find out where babies come from. I think we can draw our own conclusions. Ozzy legal system: From what we have seen, I conclude that the legal system is very informal. Since there is so little crime in the EC area, at least, there is no need for a formal structure and Ozma can set up whatever procedure she feels is appropriate at the time. It also apepars to be based on the Napoleanic code (Guilty until proven Innocent) instead of the Roman code (Innocent until proven Guilty). Eureka and Chris: Maybe she does deserve another book of her own, but there are so many other characters out there waiting as well... Oasis on the desert: Isn't there a reference to a tribe of something-or-others living in an oasis on the Deadly Desert in one of the IWOC books? I know that March Laumer has one. Also, there is a tribe of robots living in the desert in _Braided Man_, but they are not alive so they do not need an oasis. Dave: The Nome King's tunnel was also filled with dust, so maybe that initiated the error code. Dave again: _Radioactive Mutant Teddy Bear from H*** Destroys Oz_ was a comic book that the late Marcus Mebes worked on. Apparantly, it is not very "Ozzy". --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 19:50:35 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Oz digest - post please Steve T., Eric G. & Tyler: Thanks for the responses. I thought I had remembered there being something in the Bugle about Dorothy's parentage. I was reading Joan Vinge's novelization of RETURN TO OZ the other day and she made a statement about Dorothy's parentage that coincided with Steve T.'s comment. I wanted to check it out. I thought there might be something in the ANNOTATED WIZARD, but I can't find it there either. Tyler--can you supply a citation for the March Laumer reference? Thanks. Also, the situation with multiple marriages between families is not unknown even today. It's happened in my own family in my own generation. Re: IEs vs. Plot: Most early fiction was based on the romance--the medieval/renaissance works which were entirely plotless and basically featured a hero wandering through a series of adventures until his goal is realized. Anybody ever read Spencer's FAERIE QUEEN? Edgar Rice Burroughs' A PRINCESS OF MARS is entirely episodic, as are its sequels and his Tarzan books. Lots of children's fiction and YA books still follow the romance pattern--Grahame's WIND IN THE WILLOWS, the works of Nicholas Stuart Gray, the TOM SWIFT series, for example. Re: The Oz judicial system--I had a long response to this and then thought better of it. I'll only say two thing--In what country would the plaintiff sit in judgment on the defendant? Very scary.... And if inappropriate behavior in the courtroom could be punished by execution, then Jack Kevorkian would have been hanged long ago. --Ken ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:18:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-28-96 > From: "< Badger >" > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-96 > > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-96 Er, Badger, I hate to sound like I'm badgering you, but is there some other way that you can identify whose post your replying to? The way your system is set up right now is VERY confusing, and if you have a longer post and I get too far down and forget that you're echoing to a reply, I may respond to the original! (I've come close more than once.) An extra > in front or somehow including it within your << >>'s is all it would take to clarify things immensely. Thanks. > From: Avigail Bar-hillel > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > > ********************SPOILER FOR "GLASS CAT"***************************** > Hi David! So, I'm more or less in the middle of reading the book, when > Trot&co. visit Cowtown (Cowville?). Elmer, Elsie and Daisy - is Elmer > supposed to be the cow on "Elmer's Glue"? Who are Elsie and Daisy? One > thing I don't get - it the Wizard were able to send the three of them to > America, why not send Dorothy the same way in "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"? Because he was still a humbug in "Wonderful Wizard." > ********************END OF SPOILER************************************** > From: "Barbara DeJohn" <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > > I am very envious of the convention attendees. I was > wondering which of the conventions has the most people > attending and is there one that is better than the rest. From what I understand, Winkies and Ozmapolitan usually battle it out for which one has the highest number of attendees (I think Winkies usually has a slight edge, at around 150). And from those around the country who have attended several of each of the big three, I keep hearing that the atmosphere, comeraderie, and general fun is best at Winkies. But as for the program itself, there's little difference, if something is successful at one cnvention it will probably pop up at the other two before long. > I > would like to go to one but since I didn't know anyone I > was reluctant. Of course now I at least know names and > feel like I know some of you from the Digest. Even if you didn't, it's REAL easy to make friends at an Oz convention, you'll get new ones before you've even eaten your first meal, if you're outgoing enough and are willing to say "Hi" to strangers. > From: MICHAEL TURNIANSKY > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > > Well, my AD&D campaigns tend to be the episodic (or as Danny said, > "survival") stuff rather than "strong plot", so I guess I like that style. But episodic tends to fit RPG scenarios better than strong central plot anyway. (Not that it COULDN'T work, mind you...) > ozbucket (Chris??): Yes, that's Chris Dulabone. > From: cummingss@kenyon.edu > Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > > I ran across an Oz play that I had not heard of before. It is titled The > Way-out Wizard of Oz by Val R. Cheatham, and appears in Skits and Spoofs for > Young Actors 1977 Boston: Plays, Inc. It is one of 10 royalty-free plays for > children. > > Has anyone ever heard of this before? I didn't find it mentioned in the > 1977-79 Baum Bugles. I don't really want to hold onto this copy, so who should > I send it to? Me! Me! I'll take it off your hands! > It seems like an interesting Oz pastiche. Perhaps someone will > put together a "checklist" of Oz dramatical works in print someday? Steve T., this sounds right up your alley... > From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu > Subject: All that stuff > > Concerning REWOLF, this was supposedly a chapter left out of DORTHY IN OZ. Should I make the obvious joke here and say, "And with good reason!!"? Nah. > Gann: > Strange as it may seem, pedantic scholastic discussions dealing with, > catagorization, definition, and the reconciliation of cruxes ARE fun, > to some perverted minds, like mine. For some reason, I enjoy doing this with my other big hobby/fascination in my life, "Doctor Who," but not with Oz. > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Eric: > Yes, the byte count in the last few days has been inching upward, mainly > because (happily) some people are posting for the first time. Good argument for my raising the possibility of a newsgroup, everybody? (/me whistles non-chalantly, remembering how absolutely negative the concensus was last time he brought this up...) > Vulgarity on the Net: > There are no hard and fast rules on the 'Net, with the possible exception > of distributing child pornography. As for "dirty words", people can send > them as oten as they want, and there are no laws against this. Well, it depends on the sysop or other administrator at the offendor's site. Some are willing to deal with complaints about their users, others aren't. So no, no laws, but local rules, possibly. > As for this digest (which you did not specifically ask about), Dave deletes > personal attacks and other such things. So far, Dave has only had to censor one post, correct? > From: Robin Olderman > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > > I was introduced (by Jim Haff) to > E. Nesbitt and Edgar Eager when I was about 30. They "grabbed" me; > again, I like believing that Psammeads and Mouldiwarps could just show up > on a beach someday. :-) I KNEW I liked Jim (even though I only met him once before he died). I didn't discover Eager until college, which is when I re-discovered Nesbit as well. (Peter G., if you're reading this, how soon will BoW be reprinting more Nesbit titles?) > From: OzBucket@aol.com > Subject: digest (what else?) > > Well, things were very interesting today. I liked the idea about the > -rutabagas was it? Ruby red ones, no doubt (will anyone catch that reference, > other than EG, that is...). Er, no, I don't recall that... (Feel free to refresh my memory in private e-mail.) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > GENERIC OZ STORY: > Eric wrote: > >Dave, when he finds it, can you send it out as an extra, separate from the > >Digest proper, so that those who DON'T want to read it won't have to be > >subjected to it? > > Unless it's *really* long, I probably won't split it off from the main > Digest, so you'll just have to grin and bear it. :) :) Okay, you're the boss here. (I *DO* want to read it, but I'm sure not EVERYONE wants to, especially since this isn't meant to be a writing group.) > MY MOPPET ABOUT THE TUNNEL: > When Ozma commanded the Belt to "Fill the tunnel" (not specifying what to > fill it *with*), the magical "operating system" (Lurline's Adelmanian > Machine or my "Magic of Everything") checked and found that the tunnel > was *already* filled -- with *AIR*! So magic_belt::flood_fill() returned > with the "error": "Tunnel already filled - no action taken", which Ozma > never saw because the Belt has no CRT display. The ends of the tunnel were > sealed only to ensure the air would not escape. :) :) :) Okay, if I may add fuel to this fiery (?) debate, let me quote to everyone EXACTLY what Baum wrote about the filling of the tunnel ("Emerald City," p. 291): That day she [Ozma] watched her Magic Picture, and when it showed her that all the Nomes had returned through the tunnel to their underground caverns, Ozma used the Magic Belt to close up the tunnel, so that the earth underneath the desert sands became as solid as it was before the Nomes began to dig. Okay, so we don't know what Ozma's EXACT command to the Belt was. "Ozma used the Magic Belt to close up the tunnel" COULD be interpreted as supporting the plugged-ends theory, but the bits after the comma above seem to indicate otherwise. Whatever, despite everyone saying they want to hear my opinions, I'm NOT getting involved again. (I think this is the third time Snow's misuse of the tunnel has been brought up in the Digest now.) --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:56:48 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: HELPHELPHELP *Dave-please post if you can't answer yourself* I responded to the query from Kristin in Sweden that Jim Vander Noot put on the Digest on 6-23. This afternoon I got a response from her. She's using a different character set (ISO 8859-1) and some of the characters she's using are coming out as "=F6" and so on. This was discussed on the Digest last week. Can anyone tell me what characters these symbols represent so I can address this girl by her full name? Is this hexadecimal or what? Help would be greatly appreciated... Confusedly, Ken ====================================================================== Date: Saturday 29-Jun-96 00:23:33 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things HACC DIGEST?: David H. wrote: >The problem with ironing out inconsistencies in private e-mail is that only >the sender and recipient get to see the arguments. Maybe it would be an idea >to put together a subset of the Digest folks who are interested in that kind >of thing... What does everyone think of this idea? If I did it, who would be interested? CENSORSHIP: Bear wrote: >Dave - What city/time zone are you in? Is there a cut off time of >day/night for submissions? Or, did you censor me again?? My policy that I've now adopted is that I will not censor anyone without first privately E-mailing them telling them so and why. You all have to understand (and I know that some of you already do, Lurline bless you! :) :) :) ) that I have other obligations and only so many hours in the day, and sometimes I have to leave some messages un-read and un-incorportated into the Digest until the next day. But rest assured, your messages WILL appear! THE TUNNEL: Elise Hornecker wrote: >Applause! Applause! Your MOPPeT that the tunnel was already filled with >air and the belt simply closed the ends to keep the air inside was >marvelous! That solves it in my mind! Thanks! :) Though I'll humbly concede that the word "solid" in today's quote from _Emerald City_ is a (not insurmountable!) stumbling block to my theory... ON OZZY COURTS OF LAW: I really don't know what to say about this...Although I can't help thinking that _Rumpole in Oz_ would be another interesting experiment... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 30, 1996 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ============================================================================= Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 10:05:47 -0400 (EDT) From: jnw@vnet.net Subject: islands and belts Dave Hardenbrook writes: > Has anyone ever addressed the possibility of oases on the Deadly Desert? I once went to Oz in a dream an was told that there were a number of small, rocky islands in the desert. Some magic workers who really wanted to continue to practice magic had been allowed to move to these islands, which were not included in the "no unauthorized magic" decree. > Though I'll humbly concede that the word "solid" in today's quote from > _Emerald City_ is a (not insurmountable!) stumbling block to my theory... Well, we don't know the wording of Ozma's command, but perhaps the belt decided that since the tunnel was already full, all that was needed was to cool the air until it became a solid. :-) Note that Ozma could not see the result of her command with the Magic Picture because the tunnel was dark after the Nomes had left. I still prefer the explanation that the Belt's power was exhausted. This would explain why the belt was not used again until LOST PRINCESS. Ozma or Dorothy would certainly have used it to rescue the Scarecrow in SCARECROW if it had been possible. The events in LOST PRINCESS seemed to have drained it down again as it did nothing more in Baum's books except protect Dorothy from a spider. In GLINDA Ozma and Dorothy had the belt, but they still had to call for outside help since the belt was too drained to be of much use. -- jnw@vnet.net (John N. White) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:15:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-96 > From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > > But with a non-aging world, why would Glinda or Mombi or anyone *BE* > old if they could stay young and still have the magical power they have > now? (Of course, maybe the more experience you have, the more you WANT > to be older and your bodies ages at your wish.) Oz has not ALWAYS been a country with optional aging, remember. There is some evidence that magic came along gradually, not all at once, and so people could have been practicing magic before they stopped aging (or at least found out they could stop). > From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> > Subject: Today's Growls > > This cryptic address reminds me to grumble about same. It would be nice to have > a poster's name at the front of his/her post so we know who is talking up front > and can get to know each other better. This is just a suggestion Eric! What? What did I do this time ? > From: DavidXOE@aol.com > Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-96 > > Eric: > Yeah, Harry Turtledove is a really nice guy, as well as one of my favorite > writers. (TOXIC SPELL DUMP isn't typical of his work, though; most of it is > fairly serious and strongly based on history - which is understandable, since > he has a Ph.D. in history, with specialization in Byzantine history.) Oh, yeah, I knew that. If I *EVER* get this huge backlog of reading down to something manageable, I want to read "The Guns of the South" and his "Worldwar" tetralogy, as well as "The Two Georges," his collaboration with Richard Dreyfuss (yes, everybody, the actor and amateur history buff). > Steve: > Well, Mombi thought she was dumping Snip down a regular well, in which case > he'd have been miserable for a very long time, even if Oz people can't drown > or starve to death. In fact, I'd have to say that dumping an Oz person down a > well might be considered worse than killing someone, since they can > definitely feel hunger (Pompa before they found the Soup Sea in KABUMPO) and > probably cold and wet when immersed in water (though I can't think of a > specific instance - Dorothy and Sir Hokus in ROYAL BOOK and Trot in LOST KING > didn't seem very happy about getting wet, but it wasn't specifically stated > that they were uncomfortable). How about King Phearce in "The Scarecrow of Oz" and "The Gardener's Boy of Oz"? > From: Tyler Jones > Subject: Ozzy Digest > > Oasis on the desert: > Isn't there a reference to a tribe of something-or-others living in an > oasis on the Deadly Desert in one of the IWOC books? "Forbidden Fountain of Oz," IIRC. Toby's trying to find them before he gets waylaid into the rest of the adventure. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > HACC DIGEST?: > What does everyone think of this idea? If I did it, who would be interested? I would support its formation, though I wouldn't necessarily be part of it. But Dave, don't do it! You do enough work now with the Digest now, you don't want to go TOO crazy. Let someone else take a crack at it, if they're interested in doing it. > My policy that I've now adopted is that I will not censor anyone without first > privately E-mailing them telling them so and why. You all have to understand > (and I know that some of you already do, Lurline bless you! :) :) :) ) that > I have other obligations and only so many hours in the day, and sometimes > I have to leave some messages un-read and un-incorportated into the Digest > until the next day. But rest assured, your messages WILL appear! Don't forget, everyone, there are the ocassional mail glitches that cause your note not to be delievered for a day or two. > ON OZZY COURTS OF LAW: > I really don't know what to say about this...Although I can't help thinking > that _Rumpole in Oz_ would be another interesting experiment... :) Then there's the Perry Mason/Oz crossover, "The Case of the Framed Fairy of Oz" (or something like that) available from Buckethead Enterprises... --Eric Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:20:55 +0000 (UT) From: Kenneth Shepherd Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-29 responses *please post* Eleanor Kennedy--I seem to remember that Evelyn Copelman's illustrations for WIZARD were described in THE OZ SCRAPBOOK as "moody." (I suspect that this really means "atmospheric," with undertones of "dark"). I'd like to know if she agrees with this description, and if so, I'd like to know what emotions she was trying to evoke in the illustrations. The one that stands out in my mind is when Dorothy first encounters the Scarecrow. Thanks to all and sundry who responded with information about Dorothy Gale's relationships. Bear--I remember the review of WAS that appeared in the Bugle some time ago. Thanks to your expert advice I will continue to avoid it like the plague. It does, however, bring to mind a punchline of a cartoon that one of my own relatives sent to me: "Scarred by a traumatic childhood experience, an adult Dorothy of Kansas wonders why she constantly falls for ... heartless, cowardly men with no brains." David H--Thanks for your comments. FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN came out at the same time I joined the IWOC, and it was the first of the Club-published books I ever read. I like it better than MERRY-GO-ROUND, perhaps because it's so focused. I hope that Mrs McGraw will find the time to write some more Oz stories in the future--perhaps in conjunction with her husband (who is also a writer) as well as her daughter. OZMAPOLITAN didn't grab me the same way, although I like Dick Martin's illustrations better than anyone since Neill. >"it's simply a case of 'chacun a son gout'"... "Have Some Madeira, M'Dear?" --Ken ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:43:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Plot-driven vs. episodic narratives Following up on Kenneth's good comments on the pedigree of episodic narratives: one of the greatest novels ever written, Don Quixote, is so strongly episodic that Cervantes had to kill off his hero at the end of Part II to discourage other writers from poaching on his territory with endless chains of additional episodes. (Lucky for us that Baum didn't take such radical measures!) Another Great Work in this lineage is Kafka's The Trial, in which the individual episodes are sufficiently isolated from each other that Kafka scholars are still debating the chronological sequence of the chapters. Obviously we could go on forever listing canonical works that are non-linear in structure. The plot-driven/episodic distinction is part of a larger distinction variously theorized as "Classic" vs. "Romantic," closed vs. open structures, or (in Woelflin's art-historical categories), Baroque vs. Classical. These are not absolute distinctions but matters of relative emphasis. Even works that are strongly episodic usually have some kind of linear structure (like the quest, as in many Oz books or in the granddaddy narrative of them all, The Odyssey; or the changing seasons, as in the Melendy books of Elizabeth Enright--another children's series frequently attacked as being "plotless"). And the episodes themselves may be internally plot-driven--a crisis that is encountered, addressed, resolved or not resolved. So what makes one episodic narrative better than another? The relevance of the individual episode to the overall "theme" of the work is one criterion, but it depends on how generous you are prepared to be in defining the theme. Ultimately I think Atti is absolutely right in saying that you can't evaluate the work solely on structural grounds but on the basis of a whole group of factors (characterization, dialogue, inventiveness, etc.), and these factors are *particularly* important in episodic works where everything doesn't hinge on a tightly constructed plot. (That's why John Grisham et al. can get away with novels that are truly inferior with regard to characterization and dialogue.) Here's an example of an "irrelevant" episode that really works: In Chapter 10 of Dorothy and the Wizard (I can't bring myself to write DOTWIZ the way some of you do: sounds like part of an e-mail address) Dorothy and the gang encounter the Braided Man of Pyramid Mountain, who is busily at work in his secluded cavern producing and packaging "rustles" and "flutters." Not only is this passage irrelevant to the ongoing quest to return to the surface of the Earth: the Braided Man's entire *life* is irrelevant in that he has devoted himself to the manufacture of a product for which there can be no distribution and no market, and it is difficult to imagine a product more insubstantial and disembodied that his rustles and flutters. And yet this episode is simply wonderful: in its sheer loony pointlessness, it comes at just the right time to interrupt the predictable series of crises (Mangaboos, invisible bears, wooden gargoyles) that Dorothy and the others face in their ongoing ascent from the depths. It is a kind of plateau, a refreshingly little Dada moment, before the main characters go on to encounter their most harrowing adventure in the episode with the gargoyles. By the way: I notice that the jacket notes to the BoW Dorothy and the Wizard refer to this work as Baum's "metaphysical" Oz book. Could someone explain what that is supposed to mean? (Peter G.?) Here's a trivia question: who amongst you can remember--without looking it up--the name of Professor Marvel's horse? ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 14:17:18 -0400 From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-28 & 29-96 Chris Dulabone wrote: <> Ruby-red rutabagas were from an early (the first or second, I think) TALES OF THE WIZARD OF OZ cartoon. The Wizard had given Rusty the Tin Man a seed that would grow into such a vegetable, which he claimed would be good for a heart...only to have it grow into a Munchkin instead. (In *that* version of Oz, the Munchkins seemed to be kin to the Mangaboos.) Eleanor Kennedy wrote: <> She drew the first edition of THE WIZARD OF OZ that I ever read! I know it's fashionable to put her down because she wasn't W.W. Denslow, but she certainly had every bit as much right to reillustrate the books as Michael Hague on WIZARD, or Donald Abbott on DOT & TOT for that matter. I always liked her art. <> Well, just a few...did she base her concept of the characters on Denslow, or Neill, or even Judy Garland and her co-stars? How old did she see Dorothy as being? Aside from the movie cast, were there any real people (or dogs or lions, for that matter) she used for models? Danny wrote: <> Baum specifically mentioned that Ozma exempted herself, Glinda, and the Wizard from the law against practicing magic. In America, there are many things that can be done only with a license, and occasionally Ozma would let someone else practice magic (as in Jenny Jump's case, for instance). Scott Hutchins wrote: <> As was mentioned some time ago, he proabably isn't in the public domain, but for a limited publication like this one (or OZIANA), that's probably not a serious factor. <> In that regard, you're probably in excellent company. Daniel Mannix theorized once in the BAUM BUGLE that Baum himself was inspired by Fred Stone's performance as the Scarecrow in the stage WIZARD OF OZ--not so much when he wrote the Scarecrow himself in later books, but when he created Scraps, the Patchwork Girl. (Hmm... if you make your new character female, there might even be the potential of a romance for the real Nick Chopper, much as there was between Scraps and the Scarecrow, if only to a limited extent for Baum and most other authors...) <> But be careful, especially if you have any hopes of the books enduring as long as the classic Oz books have. 50 years from now, most children (and many adults) will have no idea who Ted Turner was, especially if his holdings get swallowed up by Time Warner. Baum usually was very careful about such things, especially in his Oz books..sometimes he'd push the line in his other books, but with few exceptions (like the WOGGLE-BUG BOOK) they were throwaway gags that didn't hurt the story. (Sometimes they even proved classically enduring, as with the octopus in THE SEA FAIRIES who was grossly insulted at being compared to the Standard Oil Company...even if Baum couldn't possibly know that, most of a century later, the company we now know as Exxon would be responsible for one of the most serious environmental accidents--especially from the viewpoint of a sea creature!) A good rule of thumb is...would this character be interesting, dramatic and/or funny even to those who've never heard of the original? Scraps certainly passed that test, and if your characters do too, more power to them. Bear wrote: <> That's actually up to the individual server. Some servers post the names along with the codes, but others, like my own AOL, don't. That's why I make a point of signing my contributions. David Hulan wrote: <> Yes, but she didn't. And, at least in America (though I can't speak for Oz) an attempt to commit a crime is punished less severely than if the crime is successful. <> That would also depend on to what extent Oz treats sentient animals as people, which for the most part it seems to. Killing a pig certainly isn't murder in America, but then American pigs, unless you're Walter Brooks, aren't talking, intelligent creatures. For that matter, I've heard of dogs, cats and other domestic animals killed, even over their owner's vehement objections, by various civilized governments that even at their most tyrannical could never do such things to people. <> I'm old enough to catch that reference, though I'm ashamed to admit I'd missed the Coville connection (especially since I was in Apanage with the two of you for so many years, and have been thrilled to see how well he's been doing since I dropped out...I must read MY TEACHER GLOWS IN THE DARK). Actually, this reminded me of Jack Snow's equally oblique reference in MAGICAL MIMICS to the wayward wooden son of Mr. and Mrs. Hi-Lo, which it took me a few minutes to get, and I doubt many younger people ("You mean Candice Bergen's father was a ventriloquist?") would get it at all. As I was telling Scott, one should remember that we're writing these stories for posterity, not just for our friends (even though that's exactly how GLASS CAT started...) Gili Bar-Hillel wrote: <> OK, I won't...but I'd still like to see the essay, either in the Ozzy Digest or separately, when it's done. We know you could probably do a better one for *any* other professor, so don't pass it off as substandard. Tyler Jones wrote: <> Well, this was an era of gunboat diplomacy, and hardly worse than the United States has often treated other countries in its sphere. It's almost the Ozzy version of the Monroe Doctrine (Oz being the big, powerful country on its continent, much as the United States is in the Americas), and, as I noted, Ozma never dethroned any legitimate rulers in any book I can think of. And Kaliko was hardly in any position to complain, since his ally King Gos had invaded outright the sovereign Island of Pingaree and enslaved its people. If Kaliko didn't show the proper respect to the ruler of another country (Kitticut), why should he expect respect from others? Maybe [Eureka] does deserve another book of her own, but there are so many other characters out there waiting as well... >> Since he's away this weekend, but I thought David Hulan (evidently a cat lover) was already at work on (or had even finished) EUREKA IN OZ. << < There are no hard and fast rules on the 'Net, with the possible exception of distributing child pornography. As for "dirty words", people can send them as oten as they want, and there are no laws against this. > Well, it depends on the sysop or other administrator at the offendor's site. Some are willing to deal with complaints about their users, others aren't. So no, no laws, but local rules, possibly.>> I don't think AOL is the worst by any means (I've heard horror stories about others like Prodigy that make AOL seem mild), but then I've never been one for foul language (at least not in print; I can't speak for when I'm frustrated in private conversation). They seem to be putting an end to occasional overstepping, when someone would jump on a word out of context. (I wasn't there for the infamous instance of someone objecting to "breast" in a discussion of breast cancer, but I do know they apologized after someone objected to "bitch" in a post to a dog-breeding list I belong to.) Time I sent this out! Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 21:43:49 +0300 (WET) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-96 *message from Gili* Bear - this how you mean, put our names on the TOP of digests? Dave - Please, please don't break the digest up into subsets. Please don't. :-) Barb DeJohn - I second what Eric said about making friends at conventions. Before my first Oz convention, I had corresponded with a couple of people, but not actually met any of them. I brought my own non-Ozzy friend from home with me just in case, but I would have felt right at home without her, too. The first thing that happened to me after I registered was that I was attacked and hugged by a perfect stranger, who turned out to be Robin Olderman :-). And the rest of the convention progressed in a similar way. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' avigailb@zoot.tau.ac.il '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:59:12 -0700 From: @pittstate.edu@mail.pittstate.edu Subject: Oz In response to Scott Hutchens request for information about what is suitable for use in a centennial book contest entry, I would note that the first rule is the book must "be based on L. Frank Baum's concept of Oz." References to the Ruby Slippers ould certainly not fit this concept. Just because a thing is acceptable to the BEGINNING WRITER'S ANSWER BOOK does not mean it is suitable for *this* contest. As for using Peter Brown, since Scott considers him such a vague character there seems no real reason to include him at all. Rather Scott should create his own *colorless* character. A book which was filled with references to contemporary films and events would not be a strong cantidate for my vote (and I am one of the judges). Concerning the ending of RINKITINK: I have always felt the ending of this book was anticlimatic. Inga performs all the tasks set for him by the Nome King, and then the King refuses tp free Inga's parents. Then Dorothy shows up and solves things. This reminds me of some of Euripides' plays, IPHIGENIA AMONG THE TAURIANS and HELEN, in which the heroes solve their problems and a new situation comes up requiring a god (the "deus ex machina") to appear and resolve it. It is known that Baum had an already existing MS of KING RINKITINK which he altered to make it an Oz book (Baum was one of the great re-cyclers). Actually the ending of RINK IN OZ should give BoW more problems than the references in PATCHWORK GIRL since it treats Tottenhots as inferior types of humans, below the level of Mifkits--and this is included in an illustration. Another book that uses the "deus ex machina" is PATCHWORK GIRL. Ojo goes on this long quest, fails to get the supposedly easiest thing (the left wing of a yellow butterfly) and then the Wizard steps in an produces an solution out of the air. Speaking for myself, I would not wish to see anything left out of the Digest (except for incivility). I read it daily with Avidity (my invivible friend). David Hulan: Your spoiler for GLASS CAT was not a spoiler at all, for it would have spoiled nothing. It is a very nice footnote however. You failed to mention that Daisy was Elsie and Elmer's calf, and there still is Daisy Brand whipped butter. Eric: You mean this *isn't* a newsgroup? (You can tell that I am still new to the internet). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 15:43:51 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: digest Okay, I have to respond to the recent discussion on When one read a book having relevance on one's opinion of the book. Of course, this is true of all books, not just Oz. But there are any number of books that I read as a child, and when I try to re-read them now I wonder how I ever stood them. On the flipside, I remember absolutely hating Mysterious Chronicles when it first came out, but it seems to get better now that my pre-conceived notions are being ironed out. Once one accepts its obvious faults, it actually has a decent story. Also, I remember greatly enjoying Lost Princess some years ago, but it shares a common thread with many murder mysteries in that I now know whodunnit, and the suspense factor is gone. Also, one has to be in the right mood to appreciate a book. A person who has just had a fight with a lover probably shouldn't read Tin Woodman in that state, for example. Frankly, I find all Oz books important from a historical perspective, and literary or entertainmemt value are not as important to me (unless I have to sell the book myself, that is...). I do wish that some people would stop putting words or concepts in my mouth. No, I never said that Acinad's forest was only a small area or an oasis. For a very brief period, the desert was rendered inactive. There were any number of bad consequences at that time, some of which have already seen print and others which will eventually see print (I really could use some more illustrators. Especially the kind who can get a project done in less than five years?). Greg Gick (probably not on the Net) also questions the origin of the Magic Diamond. Is it possible that it had ulterior motives in dismantling the Desert? I have made a comment on this possibility in one one of my own dust-gathering unillustrated books. I forget which one. I think that, now that he is dead, it has become common knowledge that A.E. Mouse was Marcus Mebes. And while he did not write Reera, I can tell you that he had a very real effect on the author, as well as on the printing. Marcus was the one who did the printing on that book, though I was the one who typeset the disk that he used (he had promised to put in a lot more pages and pictures, though...). I am disillusioned, Eric. You do not recognize the reference to Ruby Red Rutabagas? I am soooo disappointed. Have you not got a heart? If you need one, you will have to plant some Ruby Red Rutabagas. But do be careful to avoid planting Munchkin seeds by accident. At least we found out where Munchkins come from :-) (okay, for those who think I am even more crazy than you used to think, this is a reference to a very strange cartoon from the psychedelic age, which Eric was kind enough to make illegal bootleg videos of for me). Oh, I got the Oz Collector today. It has an ad for How The Wizard Saved Oz. It is a companion piece to How the Wizard CAME to Oz, and looks like it will share some common flaws. But I still contend that HTWCTO is Abbott's most HA book to date, so I may want to read it. Also, I have always liked those cute little mice... The other items in this issue are mostly heretical things like Oz comics (I have already stated my feelings on that). I can't think of any other Oz news just now, so will sign off for today. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 15:44:09 -0400 From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: PS Okay, another post today: I have just gotten another phone bill, this time demanding more money, but giving me more time. We are going to try to pay it if we can, but I really need a good get-rich-quick scheme. Any ideas? ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:43:32 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: Re: the tunnel of Oz (again) Are we back to this again? I think the tunnel under Oz was a hot topic when I first joined the Digest. . . Why not KISS it and say that someone dug through it again after Ozma's plugging? "Unseen to Ozma after making the tunnel as solid as before, the smallest Phanfasm, who lingered far behind the enemy army, scratched his head at this sudden roadblock, and began digging. . ." The consensus seemed that Eureka's sudden reappearance should best be explained by some unwritten book between her leaving Oz and coming again. Perhaps bu nature of our informant theory of how Oz is written, it is by nature episodic (there's THAT topic again!) It's kinda like Christmas letters! "Oh, and then this Phanfasm popped up in the middle of the garden, (The tunnel is now unfilled, BTW,) and Scrap's new button eyes are simply MARvelous! THen the wizard said. . . " Eavesdropping on Oz, Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:30:50 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Runaway At long last, after nearly five weeks, my copy of The Runaway in Oz arrived! I think it was worth the wait. It's obvious that BOW has really tried to carry on the look, the feel and the ambiance of the old-time Oz books, and I think that in this one they've really succeeded. Though I had a little trouble with the story line -- which I thought was a little, um, oh, lightweight I guess -- still I will be quite happy to display this one along with the rest of my collection. As far as I'm concerned, FF will now stand for the "Famous Forty-one." I have to say that Shanower's illos contributed greatly to my enjoyment of the book. I've read his graphic novels and did not enjoy them nearly as much because in full color his work, though technically wonderful, seems almost too lifelike. It's as though the events he depicts are /almost/ possible! I prefer a little more unreality in my fantasies. What, I say, is the value of portraying Oz as just like northern New Jersey with a little magic (or, as Asimov would have it, a sufficiently advanced technology) thrown in? Ah, but in black and white it's different! To me his black-and-whites came across as Neillesque in their Ozziness. Almost it is a whole other world. Thanks, Eric! I wish there were a major publisher bringing out a new Oz book every year which you could illustrate. There's no doubt you would soon be as famous as John R. Almost inevitably, though, I found I had three itches about the book. Is there a doctor in the Digest? (1) What happened to Morrow, as in Books of Wonder/Morrow ? (2) Did anyone notice the resemblance of Twinkler, especially the illo on p. 132, to Isaac Asimov in his later years? I admit that I may have noticed this because I had just finished reading an alleged final collection of his fantasy works which had his photo on the dust jacket. (3) I don't know why, but the episode (an IE?) of the glass man seemed strangely out of place. It was so short, to begin with, that it seemed an afterthought. It also, I thought, had no point and produced nothing which contributed to the story in /any/ way. Not even episodic. A glass man, glass man, glass man, glassman . . . No, that couldn't be, could it? Surely just a concidence. It must be a concidence. He wouldn't do that to us, would he? Although that would, on second thought, be a way of achieving an end that many of us would not be averse to accomplishing ourselves! Ozzily, W. Baldwin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:24:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyler Jones Subject: Ozzy Digest Danny: The issue of looking old when you don't *have* to was addressed in _Belgarath the Sorcerer_. According to the title character, sorcerers and such are SUPPOSED to look distinguished and experienced, and they can best do that by looking old. Of course, GLinda does not look old, but I doubt anybody on this digest would make the mistake of assuming that she is low down on Dave's magic scale. The use of magic: Ozma has forbidden anybody from using magic except for herself, the Wizard and Glinda. She seems to have forgotten the Good Witch of the North. When villains use magic, they get punished, but if heroes use magic for the *right* reasons, then they are usually rewarded, although Ozma usually confiscates the magic for herself. On the guy who wants to use Peter: Should we snail-mail him? I hope he does not get caught using Peter... :-( David and Steve: Even if being dumped down a well is not physically uncomfortable, the effect of being alone in the dark for eternity is a horrible fate. In this case, the Ozzies can suffer emotional pain versus physical. David and Chris D: I believe that there is some law against child porn on the 'Net, even though the general indecency law was struck down. David: The idea that "Ozma must be correct" seems to be the feeling. When Ojo was arrested, nobody even knew what law he had broken, yet they all assumed that he must be guilty. Sandy: Feel free to use my homepage, or one of the Oz pages hooked off it. I am at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tyler_jones Also, No the HACC has not been redone yet. I'll have plenty of free time soon enough though, as Dave can tell you! :-( Gili: Good thought. It is possible that Gann is Ryan Gannaway! Would somebody care to confirm that? (cough cough) That class you took sounded horrible, and i am glad for you that it is over, except for that wonderful essay. Ken Shepherd's reference, Chapter 2 of _Uncle Henry and Aunt Em in Oz_, 1984 Aunt Em says "Dorothy's my sister' child". Then, a little while later, she says "She also Henry's brother's child". According to Laumer, Henry (and therefore Em's) last name is Gale. There was also a reference to the Mankato family, but I'll have to dig a little and see what that meant. The tunnel (trying not to involve Eric "lemme outta here" Gjovaag) I believe that Ozma MEANT for the whole thing to be filled up as if the Nome King had never dug it. Since the tunnel was there in _Shaggy Man_ and some non-FF books, I (and others) assumed all that stuff about the belt being low on power and filling it with air/water/rutabagas or just sealing the ends. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:34:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Bauman <72172.2631@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Today's Growls Zims - In San Fran there used to be a burger place called Zim's that made hamburgers called Zimburgers. They were the greatest. That tunnel again - My theory is that it was filled with all of those vegetables that people hate to eat, like mushy green beans, Yuk! The belt found them on little ledges under dining tables and other esoteric places, and as they had no other use...... Eventually they all rotted to dust. Robin - Please explain how you can find the time to read LOTR annually. You must have tremendous reading speed. I'm still trying to get around to THE LOST KING OF OZ (David, I'm converted). If there were just a few more hours in the day....... Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 19:54:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-96 --Stating my name up-front for clarity--Robin Olderman Chris: Ruby red rootabagas? Where *is* that from? I thought I knew my FF Oz books pretty well, but that doesn't strike a bell with me. At first I thought Carter Green may have found a Rash ruby in one, but it's clear that he found it in a potato. Dave: If you can tell me how to use a subset thingummy, I'll be glad to try it. Eric et al: I still don't see the need for any other group. Dave is doing fine with this one and has my respect and admiration for the job he's doing. Why mess with what most of us seem to consider success? Very few people have complained about the way it's running, Dave seems willing to try to accommodate those few who do want to do something else and, basically, it sorta seems like the old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing to me. If you want to start a newsgroup, O.K. No one's stopping you, but why bother? Talking in "real time" formats would be difficult with a largish bunch of us. Also, if memory serves, although my server definitely will FTP and all that, you were never able to clearly tell me how to do so, so I couldn't join in. I'm afraid many folks will find themselves in the same boat I was in. Many of us are just not all that "into" computers. Me? I'm lucky I can sometimes master e-mailing and getting into the Web and using Telnet. Conventions: One thing *is* different about the Winkies, other than the venue. The Winkies REALLY do a deal with the costume parade. Y'all, you just can't believe how terrific some of those costumes are. We're talking professional levels here. And Eric does a dandy job as the Master of Ceremonies. O.K. One more thing is different: the food. I think I'll just not elaborate on it, but do any of you Winkies remember the year we had "M&M Chicken"? I know there's other stuff I thought I'd like to respond to, but it's not fair to hog too much space, so I'll stop now. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:32:18 -0700 From: ozbot@ix.netcom.com (ozbot) Subject: another Ozzy post To: daveh47@delphi.com Message-id: <199606300632.XAA08303@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hmmm, a friend of mine who loves HP Lovecraft wants to know where *I* can get a copy of ELDRITCH HORROR. Is a back issue available? I'll put it on my friend's tab. (Of course, this is the same friend who suggested THE TERMINATOR IN OZ) Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 30-Jun-96 01:28:09 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "THOU SHALT NOT PRACTISE MAGIC *EXCEPT*...: Danny wrote: >>But this leads me to a similar question that always bugs me-- If magic is >>against the law, why do Oz heroes still practice it? Rich replied: > Baum specifically mentioned that Ozma exempted herself, Glinda, and >the Wizard from the law against practicing magic. In America, there are many >things that can be done only with a license, and occasionally Ozma would let >someone else practice magic (as in Jenny Jump's case, for instance). But Ozma seems to make more exceptions to the "No Magic" rule than there are to "I before E except after C"! Besides the obvious Glinda and the Wizard, we have ( and before anyone says it, I *know* some of these people are "non-canonical" :) ): The Adepts, Locasta, Zim, Tattypoo, Gloma, Abatha, and Reera. (Any others?) SHANOWER'S BOOKS: Warren wrote: >Ah, but in black and white it's different! To me his black-and-whites >came across as Neillesque in their Ozziness. For more Shanower in Black & White, try _Wicked Witch of Oz_ and _Giant Garden of Oz_. BTW, the Huntington Beach Library that I said had _Giant Garden_ on order now *has* it! (I checked it out today.) DIGEST ON THE ROCKS???: Robin O. wrote: >Eric et al: I still don't see the need for any other group. Dave is doing >fine with this one and has my respect and admiration for the job he's doing. >Why mess with what most of us seem to consider success? Very few people >have complained about the way it's running... And those who have certainly haven't said anything to *ME* about it! Please, folks, if you have a complaint about how I'm handling the Digest, *PLEASE* tell me about it, I want to know what's on your mind! -- Please don't just gripe behind my back, which is what I'm starting to suspect is going on... -- Dave ======================================================================