] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 1, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 18:43:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-30-97 Re Borderland books (not to be confused with Borders books): I still hold that they're all in the Ozzy "universe" and therefore can all be justifiably called "borderland" Oz books. But that's only my opinion, not necessarily the most HACC. Re Oz and Pink Floyd: I notice Glinda is the WWN here--Floydian slip? Dave: Good luck with your computer repair. I've seen first-hand what computer-dependent people face when their computers are put out of action, and wish you the best. --Jeremy Steadman (and KIEX!) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 09:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-97 From The Associated Press: NEW YORK (AP) - Sydney Guilaroff, who created Judy Garland's braids in ``The Wizard of Oz'' and turned Lucille Ball into a redhead during a 40-year reign as Hollywood's most celebrated hairdresser, has died. He was 89. Guilaroff died of pneumonia Wednesday at a nursing home in Beverly Hills, Calif., his son, Jon, told The New York Times in Sunday's editions. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 10:10:03 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz meta tags We are trying to get the word out about our webpage. Thanks to all of you who have already found it. However, there are a lot of people who still haven't. It has been submitted to a number of search engines. But it still needs meta tags. (any word that you might do a search for to find our page). Here's a list we have added so far. If you can think of any others, do let us know and we will add them. Thank you! buckethead enterprises of oz baum books brick buckethead child children cowardly lion dorothy dulabone emerald city enterprises flying monkeys gillikins glinda illustrations l. frank baum lion literature monkeys munchkin land munchkins new stories nick chopper not for profit oz pictures plumly read reading road ruth plumly thompson safe scarecrow skeeziques stories the wonderful wizard of oz tin woodman toto wicked witch witch wizard wonderful xiques yellow yellow brick road writing ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 13:28:11 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-97 David, the only thing I can think of Ozzy about Isaac is that Isaac Asimov is a famous Oz fan, and even appeared in the short film, _the magnificent major_ starring Tisha Campbell, a variation of _TWWoO_. Craig, try watching Giorgio Moroder's version of Fritz Lang's classic, _Metropolis_. It'sthe one from Vestron with the female robot on the cover. You will understand how rock music can effectively support silent film. Of course, Moroder wrote his songs and score specifically for the film, and it works quite well, although it runs faster than other versions, it is actually the most complete print available. It isn't made anymore (Vestron went out of business), but is not hard to find for rental. I don't have _Dark Side of the Moon_, nor have I heard it, with or without _The Wizard of Oz_. Though someone complained about Disney's _Hercules_, brainchild of John Musker and Ron Clements, they brought on the animator of Alan Parker's film _Pink Floyd The Wall_ to supervise. Should be odd. Musker and Clements also helmed _The Little Mermaid_ and _The Adventures of the Great Mouse Detective_ (the latter with two others, however). Of course I still haven't seen _Pocahontas_ or _The Hunchback of Notre Dame_ yet. I found a place locally that has a sealed copy of _Peter Pan_ at its original suggested retail recently, I plan to pick it up. Monica O'Brien said she would try to get my _Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum_ tape back to me in time for the convention. She's had it for a month but hasn't watched it, and was trying to get her dad to make a bootleg of it. So hopefully, those at the Ozmopolitan Conference who want to check it out will get to. It's in Spanish with no subtitles, but it's worth seeing for any Oz fans. I just read the Carpenter Baum biography last night. It's given me lots of ideas for my next Oz book. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sunday 01-Jun-97 12:48:55 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Here's some more words for Chris' list: ozma, tin man, winged monkeys, munchkinland [one word], good witch of the north, wicked witch of the west, nonprofit, fantasy, children's fantasy, oz books, land of oz... (Ought I have a similar list on *my* web page?) Thanks to everyone for their good wishes about my computer...I'm going to call them Monday and ask them if I can expect to get it back before the next ice age...I also thank everyone for their recommendations for other services, but I am happy with Delphi...I don't *normally* pay $2/hr. for Delphi -- usually it's a flat rate of $23/month. The $2/hr. is the surcharge for accessing Delphi's archaic text-based shell with my Amiga, since their graphical interface is for PC & Mac only -- But it's lucky I can access Delphi with my Amiga *at all* or else I'd be offline *altogether* until my PC is repaired! I did think of perhaps signing on to some other service just until my system is back online so I wouldn't have these exorberent fees, but I don't know of any other service that still has a non-graphical, platform-indescriminant interface that wouldn't slam the door on the Amiga, which everyone now seems to regard as the Norma Desmond of personal computers...Of course if anyone knows of text-based or otherwise Amiga-friendly service... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 16:56:22 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-97 Jeremy: Sure, it's legitimate to call all Baum's non-Oz fantasies "Borderland of Oz" books, or at least all but MASTER KEY, which doesn't seem to have any Oz tie-in at all. It's just that I don't think any publisher ever called any of them that except the Trot books. (And that was, someone said, only in late reissues. Those happen to be the ones I own, so they have that label on my copies.) Dave: Unless they've changed since I was last on the service, about a year ago now, Genie is a purely text-based on-line service, and charged only $18.95 a month for more or less unlimited use. Actually, Genie even had a fairly decent Amiga interface, which it never had for the Mac, but it was always a rather primitive service. Their principle was that everything they had should be available to any kind of terminal starting with a dumb TTY - which limited what could be done with more sophisticated computers. If your PC is going to be out of commission for much longer you might take a look at Genie as a temporary expedient. (Unfortunately, I don't know how to get in touch with them any more. But if you're interested I can find out; I still have a number of friends on that service. E-mail me privately if you want me to look into it for you.) David ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 15:33:06 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-97 Hi there, I think that it wouldn't have gone amiss in that OzBucket message about your Web Site to have listed the URL. I will do so (Hope you approve): http://members.aol.com/OzBucket/webpage/home.htm . Also, Dave, If you're going to extra expense to keep the "Digest" coming, I would be more than happy to make a contribution, if you will let me know how to do so. As a matter of fact, If there is a continuing expense of any kind I don't know why you should be the only one to bear it. Anybody else have ideas? Bob Spark -- "An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?" Michael de Saint-Pierre ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 21:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 5/30 Digest David Hulan quite rightly points out that any discussion of absolute length of the reformation period in Purgatory is meaningless without some prior calibration. My personal comments were based on a view that Purgatory enables one to understand, feel, truly experience all of the hurt and unhappiness caused in the lives of others by the selfish and cruel things that one has said or done. (No lakes of fire or boiling blood like Dante's Inferno, but not C.S. Lewis's Gray Town either.) David is also right that dropping the political discussion is probably for the best, all things considered. And David is right too that the supposed joys of being without one's wife for any length of time are illusionary. Indeed, happily married men who lose their wives frequently just pine away and die. I think that seven years is the average, although I don't remember where I read that figure. (It is, however, exactly what my father did after the death of my mother.) In the 5/31 Digest Kiex indicates upset over something he assumes that I said about him. I am sorry that he misunderstood. He had made an objective (but not original observation) about the canonical Oz books. The observation sparked the thought that this was really revealing an attitude of the people who wrote those books and that is what I wrote about. An attitude of the Oz authors who created the thing observed, not of Kiex who just observed it. I thought that that was obvious and regret that it wasn't. And Bob Spark asks, Why, live your life with as much joy and love as you can, of course. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 23:23:51 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Bob: When Richar Burton (another atheist such as yourself) wakes up after death in _Riverworld_, he is suprised, but there is not anyone around to say "I told you so!" Oz and Floyd, the word spreads: On 104.1 THE HOG in Tucson, a DJ was discussing the effect. Kiex (or Jeremy): In fact, your opinion does match up with HACC philospophy. It's just that I haven't gotten around to putting borderland Oz books in there. Dave: I just heard that your computer has been sent to Smith and Tinker's in Ev for extensive repairs :-) Oz-Fest: This may or may not have been mentioned yet on the digest, but the current "Oz Fest" has nothing to do with the Land of Oz. It is a tribute for Ozzy Osbourne, who may or may not be re-joining Black Sabbath. Dave Hardenbrook has reported these two concepts getting mixed up before. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 07:45:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-01-97 Isaac: The Wizard's full name is Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkle Emanuel Ambroise Diggs (P.I.N.H.E.A.D.) I thought there'd be a millyun responses to "Why is 'Isaac' an Ozzy name?' so I didn't respond earlier. I guess everyone else figured the same as I, since I don't see a post about it. (Or did I skim too fast?) 1. I'm finished with the first reading of the MSS! 2. School is out this Friday. 3. OzCon is THIS WEEK! Oh, what a good time of year this is... --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 09:06:55 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-97 > --- > "An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the > pessimist always run to blow it out?" > Michael de Saint-Pierre > This reminds me of the conversation between a theologan and a philosopher: Theologan: A philosopher is like a blind man in a dark room searching for a black cat that isn't there. Philosopher: Yes, and a theologan would have found it. I just want to welcome a new reader of the Digest who is currently lurking: Bea Premack, a major force in the uncoming L. Frank Baum Festival in Aberdeen SD. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 10:06:41 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Ken Cope and Aaron Adelman: Enjoyed the lightbulbings. David Hulan: Come to think of it, I suppose that ship wasn't Heinlein's first novel. It was his first YA book, though, "Rocketship Galileo" (if I'm remembering the title right). Oz context of Isaac: Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkel Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs. Melody Grandy: "Ozma" is the only book where Langwidere appears, but she does get a brief mention in "Grampa" towards the end. I must admit I don't remember the context, but that's what I have down in the Haff "Who's Who" Appendix. Also, making use of the gazeteer I added ot it, I'll add to the Borderlands of Oz discussion that Ix is briefly the scene of events in "Silver Princess" and is mentioned in "Road," "Magic," "Wishing Horse," and "Captain Salt," and Noland is mentioned in the same five; Merryland is mentioned in "Road," "Magic," "Wishing Horse," and "Magical Mimics"; Santa Claus's valley and the Forest of Burzee are mentioned in "Road" and Burzee in "Magical Mimics"; the Fairy Beavers' Kingdom appears in "Shaggy Man," Isle of Phreex is mentioned in "Rinkitink," and Hiland/Loland is mentioned in "Road," "Magic," and "Captain Salt." David Hulan already commented that Mo is visited in "Scarecrow" and mentioned "Patchwork Girl." A couple of notable mentions in the non-canonicl\al Oz stories of Royal Historians: Santa Claus's Laughing Valley is in "Queer Visitors from Oz," and Dick Martin's map in "Enchanted Island" includes Mo, Laughing Valley, and two short story sites, Macvelt ("The Queen of Quok") and Thumbumbia ("Runaway Shadows"). The closest the Island of Yew gets to an Oz mention is showing up on the map Dick Martin did for the Jean Kellog adaptation of QV, "Visitors from Oz." The kingdom of the "Sea Fairies" is not mentioned as such, but the mermaids play a role in "Scarecrow," and mermaids get mentions in "Rinkitink," "Lost Princess," "Royal Book," and "Gnome King." The Nonestic Ocean was being used as a location for quite a while before Baum named it: "Ozma," "Tik-Top" (named on the map but not in the text), "Scarecrow" and "John Dough." (Maybe "Sea Fairies," depending on whether they're still in the Pacific throughout or not.) It was first named (apart from map) in "Rinkitink." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 3 - 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 16:30:47 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-97 Robin--I don't know why I didn't catch the Ozziness of Isaac. It must have just slipped my mind. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 17:37:07 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-97 Bob: I second your offer; if Dave is going to any extra expense to keep the Digest going, I'm more than willing to kick in a few bucks if he'll tell me how much and how to get it to him. (Actually, I know how to get it to him if the address in the IWOC directory is correct.) Tyler: >Dave: >I just heard that your computer has been sent to Smith and Tinker's in Ev >for extensive repairs :-) Uh-oh! And Smith and Tinker have been out of business for around a century now... Robin: Oh! (Smites self on forehead with back of hand.) I wasn't thinking of Mr. Diggs. Finished the first reading of the MSS? What's the next step, get together with the other prelim judges and do a first elimination, then reread the semi-finalists before picking the finalists? See you in a few days! Ruth: Ah, yes, _Rocket Ship Galileo_ (at least, I remember it as making two words of "rocketship", though I could easily be wrong - it was almost 50 years ago, much as I hate to admit it). The book that DESTINATION MOON was (_very_ loosely) supposed to be based on. I think it was the first Heinlein I ever read, though I can't be sure at this remove that the second half of _Gulf_ wasn't first. I know for sure I read that in the December 1949 ASTOUNDING, which was the first SF magazine I ever read. RSG was in my high school library, and I'd guess that I'd have read it sometime that fall, since I habitually searched for any fantasy or SF I could find in any library, but I'm not positive. I didn't remember it as being a backyard spaceship, though; I was thinking that the government was involved at least to some extent (though nothing like the way it was with the real moon-landers). But, as I say, it was nearly 50 years ago, and while I have a good memory it's by no means perfect (as everybody on the Digest knows by now without my saying so). However, Heinlein had written several novels before that, though I'd have to go to some kind of reference to be sure which ones. _Beyond This Horizon_ and _The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag_ for sure, and I think _If This Goes On_ and - oh, bother, I'm blanking, the "Anson Macdonald" one where the Chinese overrun the US and a handful of scientists invent a device that projects a ray that's only effective against those of Mongoloid race. Pretty racist, but then Heinlein was, rather. And there may well have been others I'm forgetting. I imagine the reference to Langwidere in GRAMPA was Dorothy remembering Langwidere during the discussion of Tatters' having two heads after he's married to Pretty Good. I think I remember something of the sort. Noland is more than mentioned in MAGIC; Kiki Aru spends most of two pages there, which is just about as much as Kabumpo and Randy do in Ix in SILVER PRINCESS, as I recall. (Incidentally, I'd somewhat forgotten this passage when we were having a discussion about Phreex a while back. Baum is very specific that Hiland and Loland are directly across the desert from Mt. Munch, and in JOHN DOUGH he's very specific that they're on the coast of the ocean that Phreex and the Isle of the Mifkets are in. Which pretty solidly puts that Phreex to the east of Oz. He also says that Kiki flew north from Hiland across Merryland, followed the curve of the desert around to Noland, and then flew west into Ix and then farther west into Ev, meaning that Ev doesn't touch on the ocean east of Oz. Yet we know that Pingaree is in the ocean off the Wheeler country, which - unless there's more than one Wheeler country, which seems unlikely - is on the coast of Ev, and therefore Pingaree is west of Oz. We also know this because Dorothy and the Wizard crossed the Winkie country in RINKITINK to get to the Nome Kingdom, and Inga and Rinkitink and Bilbil didn't have that long a trip from where their boat landed to the Nome King's dominions. So if there's an Isle of Phreex near Pingaree, it seems impossible to me that it's the same Isle of Phreex that John Dough visited.) I also have some question whether the Fairy Beavers in SHAGGY MAN are the same ones that were in JOHN DOUGH. (On the Oz-as-literature basis, I'm certain they were inspired by them. But on the Oz-as-history basis, they'd have had to make a major move to go from the Isle of the Mifkets to an inland location near the Nome King's dominions. I prefer to believe that more than one band of Fairy Beavers exists, just as Tyler believes that more than one band of fairies exists in order to keep Lurline and Lulea separate. No more difficulty in the one concept than the other. (Less, really. At least Lurline's and Lulea's bands both live in Burzee. The two sets of Fairy Beavers live far apart.) See you in a few days as well! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 20:28:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dear Ozzy Digesters: I received the following email message via my "Wizard of Oz" website. Thought I would pass this info along in case anyone is interested. If so, please respond directly to this person. Dear Oz Fan: I found "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" book at a sale. Do you know anyone who might want this? The colors and bright and vivid. Lots of color pictures too. The graphics are great! It's in pretty good condition considering the age. No scribbling, coloring or writing anywhere. The front cover does have a tear in the binding at the top left and bottom left. It says Junior Edition by L. Frank Baum. The very last page in the book which lists the other book titles to the series has been torn out. I'm a collector too so I thought someone who is an Oz fan might want this. You can e-mail me at FMeehan298@aol.com. Enjoy your Oz hobby! Another collector ***** The following comments, questions, etc. are from me: --Has anyone purchased the "Wizard of Oz" collector card series by DuoCards? I recently bought these and noticed that on the back of each card they give some info re: the MGM movie. On card #14 it has 3 trivia questions. One is: What is Miss Gulch's first name? DuoCards flubbed this up because they gave the answer as "Elvira" when it is really "Almira". This leads me to another question which doesn't necessarily pertain to this example but to collectibles in general. Does anyone know if/when collectibles are more valuable if they are issued with errors and/or discrepancies? --Starting this Thursday, "The Wiz" (direct from Broadway) is playing in Columbus, Ohio for 2 nights. It stars Grace Jones as the Wicked Witch, I assume Evilene. Has anyone else seen this? Any comments? I have tickets so I hopes it's worth it. --Lastly, I recently returned from another trip to Las Vegas. I visited the MGM Grand again and took some new pictures of "Ozzy" things. If anyone is interested in taking a peek, I just added my new page this a.m. It is called "More "Ozzy" Adventures in Las Vegas". How's that for non-scholarly "Oz" stuff? My URL is: http://www.geocities.com/~ozfan/ Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 17:52:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Ozzy Digest notice Anybody out there in Oz land collecting the "Wizard of Oz" trading cards from DuoCards? Because I'm trying to put a set together for a friend for a gift, but there are just a few small annoying gaps I need to fill. I have plenty of trading material, or maybe we can make some other deal. I'd also be interested in any of the chromium cards if you have them, but I know what the odds are of getting all of thsoe... --Eric "Please e-mail me directly if we can deal" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 21:57:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-97 Ruth: I think the reference to Languidere in GRAMPA occurs when Dorothy first sees Fumbo's bodiless head. Fumbo makes some kind of comment that he's not like Languidere, IIRC. John Fricke and "Symphonic" Oz: If anyone's within driving distance of Houston, y'all may want to come in to see a buncha Munchkins and John Fricke as they help the Kingwood Symphonic Orchestra present a nifty version of our favorite tale. Performances are on Thurs. and Fri. evenings this week. Meinhardt Raabe (coroner), Jerry Maren (main Lollypop Kid), Margaret Pelligrini, Karl Slover, etc. will be there, too, to share MGM memories and to autograph stuff. E-mail me for details. And to those of you stuck in the Board Meeting on Thursday, think of me here in Houston, listening to Fricke instead of suffering through all that "stuff"! Never mind. I'll probably get stuck in "Son of Board Meeting" on Friday... --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 09:43:27 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Here are some thoughts on Langwidere and Zixi. When I wrote, "It's a pity that we're not including non-Oz books in the BCF's," it's not as if I thought there were a prohibition on discussing non-BCF books (heaven forbid!) but rather, as Ruth Berman correctly surmised, my hesitation was that it would be more difficult to get a real discussion going if most 0people haven't re-read _Zixi_ recently. In any event, for what it's worth, here goes: In the case of both Langwidere and Zixi, there is an obsessive concern with self-image and a corresponding involvement with mirrors. In both cases, nobody knows what the person *really* looks like (cf. the Wheeler, p. 83: "I cannot say [what she looks like], although I have seen her twenty times. For the Princess Langwidere is a different person every time I see her.") In both cases there is a discrepancy between the public and private self. ********************SPOILER FOR _QUEEN ZIXI OF IX_***************************** In Zixi's case there are some interesting echoes of _Dorian Gray_, although the ghastly true image doesn't reflect the record of a lifetime of evil deeds but simply the disfiguring effects of extreme old age. The mirror that defeats the illusions of witchcraft also appears in folklore (vampires have no reflections, as I recall) and notably also in Hawthorne's "Feathertop." What I find interesting about Baum's treatment of the motif is the way he connects it with feminine vanity. And Zixi represents an extreme psychological case in which a powerful sense of vanity contends with an equally powerful and innate sense of truthfulness. Lacan talks about the "mirror stage" in human development: the search for a "reflection," literally one's own or figuratively an idealized, seemingly intact and perfect external image. In either case the reflected image enables one to construct a unified self-image. In Zixi's case, the only unified self-image she has access to can only reflect back what she herself knows to be the truth. The magic-maker is exempt from her own magic. She can see only the effects of her magically enhanced appearance on others, never that appearance itself. This horrifying rift between her projected image and her self-image is also, I think, what makes her a truly magic being: unlike any normal mortal, she is utterly incapable of self-delusion. (As Hawthorne puts it in the climactic moment in "Feathertop" where the scarecrow sees his true image in the mirror: "Perchance the only time since this so often empty and deceptive life of mortals began its course, an illusion had seen and fully recognized itself.") Lulea, in denying Zixi the ability to bewitch her own perception, argues from a legalistic standpoint (fairies don't support witchcraft), but she is surely also right in a deeper sense: Zixi's inability to delude herself may perhaps be one of her greatest strengths as a ruler. Otherwise: I agree with Aaron that Zixi, unlike Langwidere, is certainly a wise, prudent, and generous ruler. Nevertheless, in her desperate search for the magic means to align her reflected (self-) image with the image she projects to others, she descends to deceit, fraud, theft, armed aggression, and finally abject self-abasement in the scene with Lulea. That she ultimately resigns herself calmly and gracefully to the great rift in her being attests to her stature as a wise monarch. ****************************END OF SPOILER************************************* Langwidere strikes me, in contrast, as an eerie premonition of post-modern character types. It's not just that the public self and the private self don't coalesce. The private self doesn't even *exist* in any coherent sense. There is simply a succession of temporary selves, solipsistically admired and restlessly traded out in an endless cycle. The decision (was it Neill's or the printer's?) to use nothing but cold blue tones in the color plate depicting Langwidere in her "changing room" was an inspired one: there is something icy and frighteningly remote, not to say frighteningly familiar these days, in Langwidere's totally self-absorbed existence. For that matter: the image of Langwidere playing the mandolin in the isolation of her mirrored hall could be a vision straight out of a Fellini film. I absolutely agree with Bob Spark that Dave shouldn't have to shoulder the expenses of the Digest on his own. There's no way we can adequately compensate you, Dave, for all the time you put into the Digest, but I hope you'll let those of us who feel so inclined help you out with the financial side of things. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 12:05:40 -0400 (EDT) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-97 Ruth Berman: << The closest the Island of Yew gets to an Oz mention is showing up on the map Dick Martin did for the Jean Kellog adaptation of QV, "Visitors from Oz." >> I appreciated your listing of the way various Oz and Baum books and stories are textually interwoven. Gawd I'm old and my memory is held together with spit, but no bailing wire. Wasn't there a line in THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW like "I believe there was a mortal who was once made immortal" ?? This is an obvious reference to THE LIFE AND ADVENTURES OF SANTA CLAUS, though the connection to the other books is tenuous. Four of the charter members of the International Wizard of Oz Club will be present at the Ozmapolitan Convention this week: Fred Meyer, David Greene, Justin Schiller, and our Digest correspondent, Ruth Berman. I look forward to seeing you there! Patrick Maund ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 12:12:25 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-97 Earl: Your observation about the life expectancy of widowers is a sad, yet well-documented phenomenon. My maternal grandfather died less than a year after my grandmother's death, orphaning their six children. They were both 53. I grieve to this day that I never met them. My grandfather was a kind man, an excellent writer and an avid reader who my mother says I take after. Though he wasn't an Ozophile himself, it was the encouragement of his children to read that resulted in my mother and uncle both reading the Oz books and therefore me. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 11:33:04 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Ozzy Question: Does anybody know how long such things a wheat and corn last and stay useful once they have been harvested and are in grain form? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 14:49:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-97 Earl Abbe: I do hope, for the sake of the Digest, that you are not saying you expect David to pass on over the rainbow in 7 years--we need him to keep the Digest alive! Re one of the Borderlands: I'll love freaks too, all the days of my life. :-) Seriously, I'd think that for Digestion purposes, we can call all of those countries Borderlands (but that's just my wild suggestion, of course). Bob: Two things. a) A pessimist merely tries to give a more accurate picture of reality. In case you're wondering, my working personality is that of one, since that works best for me. b) I think giving donations to Dave is a wonderful idea and cause, as long as they're donations and not subscription fees. Anyway, happy Digesting, everyone. --Jeremy Steadman (and don't forget KIEX!!) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 16:01:53 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-02-97 > And Bob Spark asks, > Why, live your life with as much joy and love as you can, of course. > > Earl Abbe > > From: Tyler Jones > Bob: > When Richar Burton (another atheist such as yourself) wakes up after death > in _Riverworld_, he is suprised, but there is not anyone around to say "I > told you so!" > "The undiscover'ed country, from whose bourne no traveller returns puzzles the will" HAMLET. Let us leave the afterlife out of the discussion. It is all speculation. > > 1. I'm finished with the first reading of the MSS! > 2. School is out this Friday. > 3. OzCon is THIS WEEK! > > Oh, what a good time of year this is... > > --Robin > I would say "Amen" except MY school was out two weeks ago. This will be my last posting to the Digest until after Ozcon. After that, who knows. I will miss you all for the next five days, and the Summer School begins. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:34:07, -0500 From: YDPT01A@prodigy.com (MS ANITA R HALL) Subject: Wizard of Oz -Jitterbugs Please to help?! I have the wonderful chance to costume the stage production of "The Wizard of Oz" for a local community theater. After reading the script, I realize I have no idea what a "jitterbug" should look like. I know the scene was cut from the original film, but I find no reference to them anywhere else in any of the books. I would like to be true to the 'original' if possible. Can you send me to a source for a description or for photos from the film ...book, website, anything? I would appreciate any help. I take my costumes seriously and hope to do Oz proud! Thanks so much, Anita R. Hall ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 22:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Estelle E. Klein" Subject: Anton Loeb Does anyone have any information about a 1950 WOZ illustrator Anton Loeb? Thanks estelle ====================================================================== Date: Tuesday 03-Jun-97 22:48:19 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL INTERNET DIGEST EDITOR: :) Thank you lots to those who offered donations for keeping the Digest going, especially during this period when I don't have my PC...I think $5 would be an ideal value, but I'll accept any contribution...Every little bit helps me! :) Please send donations to: Dave Hardenbrook 9502 Erskine Drive Huntington Beach CA 92646-6007 NOTE: The Digest is and always will be a free publication...This request I'm making is a purely voluntary donation, and not contributing will *not* effect your Digest subscription! "RAINBOW" SPOTTINGS: Has anyone stopped to think how many films feature someone singing (or at least playing/humming/whistling) _Over the Rainbow_? Here are the ones I know of (Can anyone think of any others?)... The Wizard of Oz ( Boy, I'll bet you didn't *that* one coming, did you? :) ) The Philadelpha Story Interupted Melody Junior Miss A Patch of Blue Sleepless in Seattle BCF: You know, we were supposed to start discussion DOTWIZ yesterday, and everyone (including me) forgot! But thanks to Langwidere, the _Ozma_ discussion seems to still have life in it, so I am postponing the comencement of the DOTWIZ discussion another week... I don't think any expects me to pass over in 7 years (I *hope* not!)...And I'm not a widower...A lonely bachelor, yes; but not a widower... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 5 - 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 07:28:18 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - too many lives to keep straight In the 6/4 Digest, Steve Teller quotes my response to Bob Spark (and Tyler Jones's _Riverworld_ comment) and then suggests that we Sorry, I must have been unclear again. When I said to Bob, , I was talking about _this_ life. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 05:11:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz question I'm forwarding Can anyone out there help Craig with his question? I know next to nothing about Banner Elk, and so I figured some Digester might be better able to help. Please send any answers directly to Craig, as he is not a subscriber. [NOTE: He is now! :) -- Dave] --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:57:01 -0400 (EDT) From: CWingerson@aol.com Subject: Your Oz site I am doing some research on the Land of Oz theme park that once operated in Banner Elk, NC. Do you know anything about it? Do you know where I could go to find some info? Thanks in advance! Craig Wingerson http://members.aol.com/cwingerson ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 06:58:16 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 Anya Hassemnica (a snippet of Korean left over in my memory from a sojourn in Korea in 1960-61 paid for by my uncle. Means "hello, how are you?), > Does anybody know how long such things a wheat and corn > last and stay useful once they have been harvested and are > in grain form? > > --Tyler Jones I am sure that you will get much more knowledgeable answers, but several years ago didn't scientist succeed in sprouting some grain found in an Aztec burial site? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 09:45:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 The second phase of the MSS contest right now is for Steve and I to reread our top faves to narrow down the list...probably to three. These will be sent to the final judges. The third preliminary judge is not finished with the first readthrough. Ruth: You're coming to OzCon?! Save me a spot at supper on Friday night! It'll be very good to see you again. And I haven't seen Justin since the last time he came to OzCon in Zion. Or David, either, come to think of it. Gee, "old home week." Sounds wonderful. I'll try not to think too much of those we've lost over the years and just to be grateful that so many of us are still here. David: I think I'll take a break from the MSS and reread some Heinlein...probably starting with ROCKET SHIP GALILEO. Don't laugh at me if I bring it with me to Ozmopolitan! Maybe I should start with THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST. At least it'll last me more than just through the plane flight and, frankly, I like the durned thing. I know it was R.A.H. at his most self-indulgent, but I still enjoy watching him tie up all those loose ends...even though it took him a bit longer to resolve the Maureen/Lazarus/Woodie thing. (BEYOND THE SUNSET was his last novel, right? Or have I forgotten something?) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:48:05 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-97 I heartily agree with the suggested "editorial assistance" program! (the check really IS in the mail, Dave). good wishes to Fred Meyer, and bring us word of your experiences there. The arrival of the Spring '97 Bugle once again enabled me to see a face to associate with a fellow Digest member, and Oz author, David Hulan. David, along with Jane Albright and Stephen Teller, whose pictures also appeared, were book reviewers in the issue. Robin O. was also a reviewer, but, alas, no photo. This is another fine issue of The Baum Bugle. Kudos to Bill Stillman and his staff. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:54:54 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: The idea that there's more than one band of Fairy Beavers seems plausible enough in itself (and the geographical problem seems a strong reason to suggest the possibility). I'll have to look at themaps and references again before trying a comment on the freakish geography of the Phreex. Gordon Birrell: An interesting discussion of Zixi. I'm not sure when you refer to post-modern character types what novels/writers are meant. In some senses, fantasy literature has always been likely to reflect the feeling of not being an integrated self -- Ariel and Caliban are (partly) Prospero arguing with himself over who and what he is. I'll look at the illustrations you discussed and think about the issues you raised here some more. Anita Hall: The jitterbugs are apparently small creatures ("I have a little bug that will take the fight out of them" is approximately what the WWW says), and if they're the size of ordinary bugs or smaller even than that, they aren't going to be visible to an audience a few feet away. The actors could just pantomime reactions to being bitten. The "home movie" footage that Arlen took of the scene (shown on tv a few years back and I think included on some editions of the "Wizard of Oz" videotape) didn't include anything visible to the audience for the bugs, and I don't think there was intended to be anything. You might want to consider leaving out the song, as the movie did -- it doesn't forward the story and isn't particularly interesting as a song. If you're aiming at making the bugs themselves visually interesting enough to make the number more effective theatrically -- maybe modeling them on the Highly Magnified Professor Wogglebug (character introduced in the second Oz book, "The Land of Oz") would be amusing? I seem to recall that Ray Bolger, performing the song with Judy Garland on "The Judy Garland Show" wore a big black cape and something (wide tie or shirt?) polkadotted like a ladybug but in wilder colors. Incidentally, if the script you're using is the standard one by Frank Gabrielson, you might want to consider shortening it a bit by cutting out the tiresome comic bits he added -- all that business with the WWW's skeleton butler Tibia and the visiting witches. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:12:34 -0400 (EDT) From: PFCHRYSSON@aol.com Subject: Oz I live in North Carolina and when I was a little girl there was a theme park in Banner Elk, NC called the Land Of Oz. I visited there as a child but since then the park has closed and I'm sure is abandoned. Do you have any information on this theme park. Who started it, what happened to it? What it looks like today. This may be an interesting addition to your Oz information. PFCHRYSSON [Now *this* person *isn't* on the Digest, so please E-mail him (her?) privately... -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:12:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark K DeJohn <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest From: Barbara DeJohn Hello everyone !!! I have just finished reading_ The Number of the Beast_ by R. Heinlein. Ugh !!! I did like the Oz chapter but the rest I had to force down. I probably didn't dislike it as much as Aaron but then I doubt I dislike anything that much. :-) FWIW, I really liked _The Wind and the Wizard_ although the Oz part was alittle strange. I ran out and read _The Water Babies_ like someone else had mentioned doing. RE: Oz T-shirts There was only about 5 people who said that they were interested. The cost with all the colors could get expensive, so if you want me to continue to research it let me know. I could check on fewer colors. Ozzily, Barbara DeJohn 103330.323@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:53:21 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 Some recent observations: The Spring Bugle arrived last week and it is an excellent issue. The last article on the wooden Woozys is especially interesting, and ends with a classic sentence!! The article on the use of Oz in editorial cartoons is interesting--and timely. In todays (Wednesday) San Diego Union-Tribune, there's an editorial cartoon by Steve Kelley with an Oz theme! Everyone who reviewed a book in the Bugle's "Oz Bookshelf" I notice is also on the digest. Judging by their photographs, could David Hulan and Steve Teller be brothers? I should note that Jane Albright's photograph is certainly easy on the eyes, so to speak... :) Has anyone received the Oz Observer yet? I understand it may be out, but I have not yet received a copy. If anyone is as fortunate as I am, and is up getting ready for work about 5 a.m., you may be familiar with ABC's World News This Morning. Usually every 1/2 hour or so they will have a "voice over" by some woman before the station break asking some kind of trivia question--then after the station break the question is answered. Several weeks ago they asked an Oz-related question--and at first I wasn't sure if I heard it correctly--because it seemed like a **very** obscure question. As it turned out, I did hear the question correctly (because I waited for the answer). And again I thought, with all the Oz-related questions they could have asked, why did they ask that one? Anyway, here's the question: "Everyone knows the name of Dorothy's dog in The Wizard of Oz was Toto, but what was the name of Dorothy's cow?" I know there are many on the digest who can answer this, but I'll bet most can't. Good luck. (P.S. I knew the answer). Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 12:01:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 Re Non-Oz Topics: Hmmm. While I maintain they are in general perfectly appropriate in this Digest, I agree with Steve that debate over religion, as politics, is so enormous that we had best forbid it lest it fill our entire e-pages. Dave: Many apologies for accusing you of planning to leave this world for Nonestica at any time soon. Am glad to hear such is not your intention. More _Ozma_, okay; however, let's not prolong our discussion of Languidere too long, lest she grow heady with all the attention . . . Sorry, everyone; I guess it's time for me to sign off now. --Jeremy & KIEX, partners in humor (a nasty thought, that . . .) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:10:12 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Craig: Am just back from Europe and reading back Digests. Thanks for the plug in the May 31 issue. I try to keep my prices near what books go for, on average, in the IWOC auctions. In fairness to other considerate dealers like Robin Olderman, who has to charge somewhat more, I must say that I don't do books for a living and have no overhead for employees, store rent, etc. On the flip side, I'm away a lot, and this may result in slow service. I may even not be able to answer your e-mail for weeks at a time on occasion. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 12:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 I have the old Wizard of Oz trading cards set, and it has the same Elvira goof. Does anyone kno what the Oz reference is in the movie _Elvira, Mistress of the Dark_ The internet movie database also notes that _Heathers_ by Michael Lehmann, _Honey, I Shrunk the Kids_ by Joe Johnston both have Oz references. I've seen both of these films, but don't remember any. I know ther is also one in John Lasseter's _Toy Story_, but I don't remember what it is. Gordon--it's interesting that you mention Feathertop, as Jack Pumpkinhead was probably inspired by him. It's a good story, too... Would you happen to know if there was a particular Fellini film referenced by the song in _The Brave Little Toaster_, a film by Jerry Rees produced by Winkie Willard Carroll? "Over the Rainbow" also appears in the following films and TV specials: Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum (1985) Hakosem! (1994) First Do No Harm (1997) Nightline--Reclaiming Yosemite (1997) The Wizard of Oz on Ice (1996) The Wizard of Oz in Concert (1995) I'm sure this is far from complete. Thanks for your info, Dave. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 12:49:59 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 Bill, what is your reply-to address. I tried to send you infor about the Russian Oz films, but the address wouldn't take. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 10:26:12 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 References: <01IJNPI4380Y91XK7G@delphi.com> Robin: I'm not going to be at the Board meeting tomorrow, but I'm not in driving distance of Houston, either. (American Airlines has a $129 weekend fare from Chicago to Houston this weekend, but I'd have to stay there all weekend.) Besides, I have to finish folding the rosters, putting name tags in holders, and stuff like that... Gordon: I think I've said this before, but my opinion is that in Zixi's case we do know what she looks like - that is, the appearance she makes to her subjects and other sentient beings is indeed the configuration of her physical body. There is no "illusion" involved. Many things she does - including walking all the way from Ix to Nole and back - would be impossible if her body were really that of a 683-year-old woman, and her appearance were an illusion. This is also consistent with the analogy to "The Picture of Dorian Gray"; part of the point of that was that the magic that transferred the ravages of Gray's debauchery to the picture left his body healthy. My theory - though this is speculation, and there are undoubtedly other possible explanations - is that the spells Zixi used to prevent her body from aging had the side effect of making her see in a mirror what would have been if she had not used the spell. (Although presumably with continued life; Baum doesn't say she sees a skeleton, and that's all that would be left of an actual 683-year-old woman.) I don't think that there was any particular magic in the mirror; there is no evidence that if anyone else saw Zixi's reflection, it would have the appearance of an ancient hag. (It's true that she had all mirrors banished from her palace in Ix, but it seems highly unlikely that she never encountered a mirror when she was in Nole, and surely someone would have noticed that the pretty young woman's reflection wasn't what it should be.) Patrick: I think a reference to Santa Claus is insufficient to connect THE ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW to Oz. Santa Claus isn't a character confined to Oz and its borderlands; he says himself, in ROAD, that he has visited Dorothy in Kansas, and knows where Button-Bright lives (which we later learn is Philadelphia). And neither Kansas nor Philadelphia is generally considered "borderland of Oz"; if they are, then basically everywhere is, and there's still nothing to put Yew in the Nonestic. Craig: While it's certainly true that widowers don't typically survive a long time after the deaths of their wives, I'm not entirely sure that it's due to "pining away". I suspect most of it is due to the fact that men (at least in modern America, when the risks of childbirth to women are much less than they once were, both because of improved birth control lowering the frequency of pregnancy and because improved medical care makes each pregnancy less hazardous) usually die younger than women, and husbands are usually older than their wives. This means that most males whose wives predecease them are probably approaching the end of their natural span anyhow. I'd need to see a controlled analysis of, say, a group of men otherwise comparable in age, health, and income, half of whom had never been married and half of whom had just lost their wives, to see if the former group outlived the latter by any significant time. (Maybe such a study has been done; I just haven't seen it.) The case of your maternal grandparents is certainly an example, but on the other hand my maternal grandmother died in 1923 and my maternal grandfather lived on until 1955. That's the only case in my close family - parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles - where the wife died before the husband, except for one uncle whose wife died just about a year ago - and since he's now 85, and hasn't been in particularly good health for the last eight or ten years, the odds are that he won't last much longer. But I don't know if he'd have lasted any longer if my aunt had survived. And one of my wife's uncles was widowed at least ten years ago, and I think more like fifteen, and he's still going strong. Tyler: >Does anybody know how long such things a wheat and corn >last and stay useful once they have been harvested and are >in grain form? "Stay useful" in what sense? They'll stay useful as a food source - especially for animals - longer than they'll stay useful for seed, for instance. And a great deal depends on how they're stored. But if they're carefully stored in a dry environment and free from fungus, insects, mice, and other living things that eat them, the answer is "many years". Probably centuries, although I'm not an expert on the subject. I'm pretty sure I remember reading of grain found in Egyptian tombs that was several thousand years old and a few seeds still sprouted when moistened. There's probably a half-life sort of effect; after X number of years half the seeds are no longer viable, after 2X years 3/4 are no good, etc. What X is I don't really know, but it's a reasonably large number. Is this good enough for your purpose? Jeremy: Hey, my wife didn't die, she just went to California for a few days! Dave: I'll pop a fin in an envelope and get it off to you today or tomorrow. I've been reading DOTWIZ and had some comments to make, but I'll wait till next week cheerfully enough. I think Jeremy was talking about me, not you, passing over the rainbow. I'm not as important to the Digest as you are, but I'm probably the most verbose member; if I disappeared, the Digest would certainly be shorter, though I doubt it would die. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 15:54:41 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 Here is the url for my new Oz page: venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid=1153 You must create an alias and a password to get in, I believe. Tin Man, dorothy, Tippetarius, ozma, glinda, Cowardly Lion, Hungry Tiger, scarecrow, pumpkinhead, Peter, and Kabumpo are already used. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 20:32:28 -0400 From: Scott Piehler Subject: Ozzy items for sale Giant Garden of Oz-Limited edition hardcover-Sold Out Written/illustrated by Eric Shanower 1993, Emerald City Press, 1st edition Hand signed/numbered by Shanower #175/375 $15 plus shipping Wicked Witch of Oz hardcover Written by Rachel Cosgrove Payes Illustrated by Eric Shanower 1993, International Wizard of Oz Club, 1st edition Hand signed by Payes & Shanower $15, plus shipping. Also; Enchanted Apples of Oz-graphic novel (comic book) by Eric Shanower, introduction by Harlan Ellison 1986, First Comics, 1st printing $1, plus shipping ( I have two copies) Take all four books for $25, plus shipping! Priority given to package deal. Scott Scott Piehler Atlanta, GA USA http://www.mindspring.com/~rosco29/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 21:45:53 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 Tyler Jones wrote: >Does anybody know how long such things a wheat and corn >last and stay useful once they have been harvested and are >in grain form? Under ideal circumstances, for millennia. Anita R. Hall wrote: >I have the wonderful chance to costume the stage production of "The >Wizard of Oz" for a local community theater. After reading the >script, I realize I have no idea what a "jitterbug" should look like. > I know the scene was cut from the original film, but I find no >reference to them anywhere else in any of the books. If I remember rightly, the jitterbug was to be bug-sized, and therefore more or less invisible. If you have a human-sized jitterbug planned, you should be free. (There is no such event in the book, so that's no help.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 23:14:35 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-04-97 Gordon: Enjoyed your analysis of Zixi and Languidere. Zixi, the wise ruler who learns from her mistakes, comes out a better lady than Languidere the hopeless narcissist--who, like her mythological male counterpart, will probably stay infatuated with her faces in her mirrored room until she dies. David: Sorry you are not as capable of enjoying temporary bachelorhood as I am-- you would apparently need a bigger solitary streak, and perhaps a nicer reason for your wife to be away. Hope your mother-in-law is doing okay. :-) Robin & Steve: You're through reading the MS? Oboy! Who won? (Just kidding! :-) ) Was the final manuscript count 40? (As I recall, it was close to 40--as in Famous Forty. :-) ) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 23:16:04 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (R. M. Atticus Gannaway) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest RE: PINK FLOYD/WIZARD OF OZ i borrowed my friend's copy of "dark side of the moon" and played it along with the MGM movie. it did have some interesting coincidences; i can confirm most of the article's examples. too bad i don't like pink floyd. regards, atticus * * * "Suffering does make us more sensitive until it crushes us completely." ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 02:04:08 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: for Ozzy Digest Dave: Still playing catch-up on old Digests and I am distressed to hear of your computer problems. It happened to me last year, and I was completely helpless. So I went on a long weekend to San Diego (while it was being fixed) to admire the high Oz prices in that sunny land. I want to second those who have offered to chip in for any expenses you incur in making the Digest happen. Its enough that you donate your time! Just figure out a "fair share" and then double it because experience teaches that only about 50% of a volunteer supported group will cough up anything. Ciao, Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 07:28:37 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Book World Illustration (I forgot to report this earlier in the week.) The front page of _The Washington Post Book World_ for Sunday 6/1 has a large illustration based on a scene from the MGM _Wizard of Oz_ movie. The illustration is a black & white drawing by Christopher Bing and covers most of the page. The drawing shows a group of ten or so figures running away from the viewer, over a wide road paved with books, toward a mass of city towers in the distance. Most of the runners are in business attire although the Cowardly Lion and Tin Woodman are pictured au natural. Dorothy is not visible, unless she is one of the women in business attire (perhaps the one holding the Cowardly Lion's paw). The Scarecrow may be the individual just seen at the front of the crowd wearing a pointed hat. Toto is not there. Most of the city towers are flat at the top rather than rounded. No credit is given to MGM or Ted Turner. This is the 25th anniversary issue of _Book World_ and the lead article is by Kunio Francis Tanabe, who is now the art director and assistant editor of _Book World_. He writes about his 25 years in the book section at the Post. Tanabe works several references to the MGM movie into his essay. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:18:08 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest - Phreex and Zixi David Hulan: Well, clearly by internal-explaining, "Phreex" in "Rinkitink" is an error of name, and some other island must be meant. The Haff-Martin map showed RPT's Octagon Isle just to the SW of Pingaree, and that seems a plausible suggestion. By external-explaining, though, Baum obviously meant the name he used, and was making a mistake about where it was, because he was trying to use the map as Neill had drawn it for "Tik-Tok," with Phreex on the Ev side of things instead of on the HilandLoland side. Also, of course, Neill had his compass points backwards, and Baum was correcting it by assuming that the places were as shown, and only the compass needed to be reversed, instead of flopping the whole map over to get it reversed. (The Haff-Martin map flopped the whole map over, and that works better for most of Baum's books.) That leaves the question of why Neill put Phreex on the Ev side of the landmass, and I'd make a guess that it was a two-stage process. Baum must have put together a rough drawing (or verbal description?) of the Oz continent, with all the countries added in around the edges of the Desert, but he either neglected to draw (describe?) the coast-lines from non-Oz books or forgot entirely that some of them require a coast. (Hiland/Loland, in fact, is an island in "John Dough," and the Haff-Martin map snaked a thin arm of ocean around the inside to make it so, while keeping the basic shape of Neill's outlines; and No must either have or be near a coast, as the Roly-Rogues get dumped into the river, and the river spills them into the ocean.) The only bit of coast-line included on Neill's map was the stretch along Ev -- the only bit that had been in the Oz books (in "Ozma" and "Tik-Tok") till then. And Baum also, knowing that he had "Rinkitink" coming up, put Pingaree into the only bit of ocean visible on the rough draft (or the only bit specifically mentioned, if it was a verbal description). I'd guess that Neill, as the illustrator of "John Dough," remembered the Isle of Phreex fondly, wanted to add it to the map, and stuck it in that same bit of Ev-side ocean, forgetting that it needed to be closer to Hiland/Loland than that. And Baum, faced with a map that gave Pingaree a near neighbor to the left (Neill's "east") he hadn't inded, wrote a brief reference to it into the text (and assumed that left must really be "west"), rather than totally ignore Pingaree's closest-according-to-the-map neighbor. Of course, if one wanted to work up a story to explain how it happened, one could always suppose that there really was a second isle of Phreex, perhaps only temporarily (perhaps for some reason the Phreex had needed to come take refuge on Octagon Isle for a while?). Gordon Birrell: I think you're right that the decision to use monochrome pale blue in the drawing of Langwidere in her room of heads gives an appropriately icy effect. Incidentally, Richardson also has some monochrome pale blue drawings in "Zixi," but doesn't seem to use it to suggest sadness -- the monochrome color drawings (pale orange, pale red, pale green, pale blue) all seem to use the color simply as a warm accent. The drawing of Zixi confronting her other self, by contrast, is a 3-color plate, and so makes her appropriately a more complicated character chromatically than Langwidere. (The Dover reprint gives some indication of this difference, even though it's in in b&w, because the 3-color plates come out in a pattern of complicated greys, whereas the drawings on the pages of text come out looking like plain line drawings.) It's a nice touch that the angle in the plate is such that the reader does not see Zixi's reflection -- only Zixi herself does. I wonder if Richardson saw Bernhardt on stage when he was in Paris. His work as a whole generally reflects the influence of Art Nouveau, but his drawings of Zixi perhaps even more so. His Zixi (especially in the adaptation of the drawing of Zixi looking in the pool which was stamped on the cover, where the simplification of the shades of color leaves the lines of the complicated curves emphasized) looks a good deal like Mucha's posters of Bernhardt, I think. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:31:16 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-28-97 --Ozma's poppies On the subject of Ozma's poppies, I've always opined that they were left over when she mowed down the field of sleep-inducing poppies, in here "Emerald City Beautification" program. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 7 - 9, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 19:53:58 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: "Ozzie Digest" Howdy, In the "Datebook" section of today's San Francisco Chronicle there is a 3/4 page spread about the supposed matchup of Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon" CD with the "Wizard Of Oz" film. It was by Billy Jam, with a note that it was a special to The Chronicle, but I imagine that similar articles are to be found across the country. I found the last two paragraphs interesting. I will quote: "But as anyone who has gazed at a muted TV set in a music bar for too long can confirm, it's possible to match just about any music with any movie. All you need is a good imagination. "It's more likely that Elton John's 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road,' which also came out in 1973, has more to do with "The Wizard Of Oz" than 'Dark Side Of The Moon,'" said ex-manager (of Pink Floyd) Jenner with a laugh." Bob Spark -- "In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." H.L.Mencken ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:28:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 > Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 20:32:28 -0400 > From: Scott Piehler > Subject: Ozzy items for sale > > Giant Garden of Oz-Limited edition hardcover-Sold Out > Written/illustrated by Eric Shanower > 1993, Emerald City Press, 1st edition > Hand signed/numbered by Shanower > #175/375 > $15 plus shipping > > Wicked Witch of Oz hardcover > Written by Rachel Cosgrove Payes > Illustrated by Eric Shanower > 1993, International Wizard of Oz Club, 1st edition > Hand signed by Payes & Shanower > $15, plus shipping. > > Also; > Enchanted Apples of Oz-graphic novel (comic book) > by Eric Shanower, introduction by Harlan Ellison > 1986, First Comics, 1st printing > $1, plus shipping > ( I have two copies) > > Take all four books for $25, plus shipping! Priority given to package deal. il.ll take them all for 25 > > Anita R. Hall wrote: > >I have the wonderful chance to costume the stage production of "The > >Wizard of Oz" for a local community theater. After reading the > >script, I realize I have no idea what a "jitterbug" should look like. > > I know the scene was cut from the original film, but I find no > >reference to them anywhere else in any of the books. actually if you get the anniversery print of the film it shows you what the jitterbugs looked like as they added the scene back in at the end to show u what they had filmed hugs anthony van pyre ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:41:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest, 6/06/97 Dave: I've never asked you this, nor have I seen it asked by someone else during the time I have joined in the group Digestion (sorry). What is the meaning of the Tin Woodman picture at the top of each Digest? Your emblem, perhaps? Just idle curiosity. Someone: Lazy me. Still have not gotten around to resubscribing to the Club. Can someone give me the current address? (Sorry if I've asked this before, but I don't have all the Digests past nor any sort of memory.) Re _Number of the Beast_: I, too, appreciated the Oz chapter (although there was little Ozzish in it, as I recall), and thought it was a mediocre Heinlein, personally. But as I said, Oz didn't exactly do much for the novel, nor did the novel do much for Oz (to paraphrase a negation of that famous patriotic quote). Re life and death (a particularly Ozzy topic, of course): My grandfather (my father's father) died when my dad was 10. My grandmother, on the other hand, only just started to have age-related health problems. Up until then, she continued to teach music (at a local elementary school) and private piano lessons, and to conduct the yearly 4th of July band parade (walking backward), not to mention that she had her driver's license renewed yet again. I repeat, until this past summer she was in near-perfect health and clearness of mind. Oh, by the way, she turned 101 last August. David: Sorry for the mix-up. I do so much of that these days . . . Anyway, may Ozzy thoughts be with you all. --KIEX and jeremy, partners in confusion ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:57:33 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Ruth Berman: Thanks for your carefully considered remarks on the geography of Nonestica/Baumgea. I also like your suggestion that Richardson might have been influenced by Mucha's posters of Sarah Bernhardt in his rendering of Zixi. Given the heavy stylization of the female figure in Art Nouveau, there are bound of course to be some generic parallels. On the other hand, Zixi and Bernhardt are alike in other ways besides their good looks: both are queenly figures, and both are in some sense actresses, living in a world of representation and projected beauty. The word "post-modern" has been bandied about so much that it can mean practically anything one wants it to mean (which, in itself, could be considered a post-modern procedure!), but the way I was using it derives from the definitions that Linda Hutcheon provides in _A Poetics of Postmodernism_ (Routledge, 1988): that is, the tendency to shuttle back and forth between available modes of constructing meaning. Conventional boundaries (disciplinary, characterological, aesthetic, gender, etc.) are continually observed, transgressed, reinstated, supplanted. As Hutcheon sees it, the typical post-modern strategy is to install meaning while simultaneously challenging it. I think there is something of this in Langwidere's incessant trading out of one head (i.e., one mode of perception and sensibility) for another. This is quite different from the almost universal sense that our essential self is not entirely intact, as manifested in the traditional Doppelgaenger motif. An early literary example of post-modern character is _Waiting for Godot_, in which Vladimir and Estragon continually try on one provisional personality type after another, playing at being different people. (The difference between Gogo/Didi and Langwidere, of course, is that they, in a typically post-modern way, are fully aware of the artifice and problematic nature of what they are doing.) David: >I think I've said this before, but my opinion is that in Zixi's case we >do know what she looks like - that is, the appearance she makes to her >subjects and other sentient beings is indeed the configuration of her >physical body. There is no "illusion" involved. Many things she does - >including walking all the way from Ix to Nole and back - would be >impossible if her body were really that of a 683-year-old woman, and her >appearance were an illusion. > [snip!] >My theory - though this is speculation, and there are undoubtedly other >possible explanations - is that the spells Zixi used to prevent her body >from aging had the side effect of making her see in a mirror what would >have been if she had not used the spell. . . . I don't think that >there was any particular magic in the mirror; there is no evidence that >if anyone else saw Zixi's reflection, it would have the appearance of an >ancient hag. (It's true that she had all mirrors banished from her >palace in Ix, but it seems highly unlikely that she never encountered a >mirror when she was in Nole, and surely someone would have noticed that >the pretty young woman's reflection wasn't what it should be.) This is an interesting and even seductive interpretation, but it is difficult to square it with the text. Here is what Baum writes: "Although [Zixi] had been an adept at witchcraft for more than six hundred years, and was able to retain her health and remain in appearance young and beautiful, there was one thing her art was unable to deceive, and that one thing was a mirror. To mortal eyes Zixi was charming and attractive; yet her reflection in a mirror showed to her an ugly old hag, bald of head, wrinkled, with toothless gums and withered, sunken cheeks. [ . . .] Zixi wanted to admire herself; and that was impossible as long as the cold mirrors showed her reflection to be the old hag others would also have seen had not her arts of witchcraft deceived them." The repeated use of the word "deceive" pretty clearly establishes her beautiful appearance as an illusion, not a physical reality. As for her ability to walk all the way to Noland, that presumably is covered in the first sentence (she "was able to retain her health"). It's true that someone in the castle in Noland might have noticed from Zixi's reflection in a mirror that she wasn't what she should be--that's of course what happens in "Feathertop." But my reading of _Zixi_ is that the witchcraft bewitches the perceptions of all of those who behold Zixi, whether or not they are looking at her directly or in a mirror; it is only *her* perception of herself which must remain utterly truthful. Scott: I've seen most of Fellini's movies, but unfortunately I haven't seen Jerry Rees's _The Brave Little Toaster_. Is it available on video? --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:33:31 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 Earl, > Sorry, I must have been unclear again. When I said to Bob, your life with as much joy and love as you can, of course.>, I was > talking about _this_ life. I understood you perfectly, and agree with the premise. I have always had every intention of doing so. Jeremy & KIEX, > I agree with Steve that debate over religion, as politics, is so > enormous that we had best forbid it lest it fill our entire e-pages. While I am in total agreement that extraneous discussion is best kept to a relative minimum, I believe that as responsible adults we (or most of us) will do so, however some of our more interesting discussions--to me--have been to some degree off the subject of OZ. Forbidding any subject smacks of censorship and I am definitely NOT in agreement with that. Scott, I attempted to go to http:///www.venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid=1153 with no success. I was told that Netscape could not find that URL. did I do something wrong? Bob Spark -- "In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." H.L.Mencken ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 19:31:18 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 David Hulan wrote: >I think a reference to Santa Claus is insufficient to connect THE >ENCHANTED ISLAND OF YEW to Oz. Santa Claus isn't a character confined to >Oz and its borderlands; he says himself, in ROAD, that he has visited >Dorothy in Kansas, and knows where Button-Bright lives (which we later >learn is Philadelphia). And neither Kansas nor Philadelphia is generally >considered "borderland of Oz"; if they are, then basically everywhere >is, and there's still nothing to put Yew in the Nonestic. Hmmm.... A somewhat subtler analysis is possible. The ilne about Santa Claus at least puts Yew in the same fictional universe as Oz, and _in_ _that_ _fictional_ _universe_, it appears that all enchanted countries are to be found in the Nonestic. >I'd need to see a controlled analysis of, say, a >group of men otherwise comparable in age, health, and income, half of >whom had never been married and half of whom had just lost their wives, >to see if the former group outlived the latter by any significant time. >(Maybe such a study has been done; I just haven't seen it.) Unless I misremember, I believe one has been done. It is also generally observed that happily-married widowers are more likely to remarry quickly not, (as upset offspring are likely to assume) because they have forgotten their wives, but because they want to regain, as much as possible, what they have lost. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 23:47:03 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 Dear Craig Wingerson: >I am doing some research on the Land of Oz theme park that once operated in Banner Elk, NC. Do you know anything about it? Do you know where I could go to find some info?< I once lived a little nearer to that theme park than I do now, and I visited it a couple times when it was open. I hated it when I no longer saw the billboards advertising it, and heard that it had closed. The park was (if memory is correct) was on top of Beech Mountain and run by Beech Mountain ski resort. The Oz attraction was meant to help bring in money when skiing weather was over. After driving part of the way up, you had a choice of taking a bus or ski lift to the top where the attraction was. (I took the ski lift!) First, you came to Uncle Henry's farmhouse and barn, where they had a petting zoo. Teenaged girls dressed as Dorothy from MGM's Wizard would come to the door about every fifteen minutes to greet the latest group of visitors and take them on a tour of the farmhouse. A recorded voice (Aunt Em's) told the visitors a little about the house, and then (of course) warned everybody there was a tornado coming, and told "Dorothy" to take the visitors into the storm cellar, where darkness and whirling lights and recorded windy sound effects gave the impression a tornado *had* engulfed the farmhouse. Actually, "Dorothy" led the visitors down a zig-zag ramp which led to a wrecked, topsy-turvey version of the farmhouse they just left. Then Dorothy led the visitors outside into "Oz," where the first thing they saw were little Munchkin houses. Then they met the Scarecrow, who recited his history and performed a song and dance. Then they met the Tin Man, who said that he always gets up "oily in the morning." (Groan! :-) ) The Tin Man would perform HIS song and dance, in which he sang, "I look just like a tin can, but I really am a Tin Man." Then, of course, the Lion appeared after that. But they did not join the group, but said they would meet them in Emerald City. Then there came a magic show given by the Wizard's assistant. And finally the Emerald City itself, which consisted of several shops and one stage, the Wizard's palace where Dorothy & friends meet the Wizard. The Wizard (naturally) grants everyone's wishes. When it is her turn, "Dorothy" is told to "think of a rainbow." Then she disappears, and her friends wave at someone behind the audience. It's another "Dorothy" taking off on the balloon ride--which visitors could also ride when they had seen enough of the Emerald City. The balloon ride took visitors back to Uncle Henry's farm, where they could take the bus or ski lift back down. All in all, I enjoyed the attraction very much--although I wish there had been a little more to it. In the souvenir shops, one could buy MGM Wizard of Oz Tee-shirts, which featured the art from the front of the DC-Marvel adaptation of MGM's Wizard. And one could also buy the large white-covered Oz paperbacks as well. One of the shops used to display in a glass case a Dorothy dress worn by Judy Garland. Until the dress was stolen. Sigh. I really miss the Land of Oz attraction, and do wonder how much, if anything, is left. An outing there would have been a nice treat for my daughter. I still hadn't completed my Famous Forty collection when I visited Land of Oz on Beech Mountain, and thinking about it brings back memories of the fun I had chasing down the Famous Forty. :-) For more info, you might try contacting the Beech Mountain ski resort in Banner Elk. If the resort is still in business. If they are not the ones who ran Land of Oz, they might be able to tell you who did. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 03:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 Regarding Feathertop, a new edition was printed in 1992, beautifully illustrated by Daniel San Souci. Feathertop and his creation is very much a reflection of Jack Pumpkinhead, but pre-dates our friend jack by about 50 years! I highly recommend the book, written by Robert D. San Souci. My copy is signed with a pen & ink sketch of Feathertop very much in the John R. Neill style. Joel Harris ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 07:27:10 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission: You'd better keep her -- you'll live longer. In the 6/5-6 Digest David Hulan suggests statistical analyses of survival rates of widowers vs. non-widowers. I don't recall any such studies (although there probably are some) but I do recall studies showing that married men live longer than unmarried men (bachelors, divorced & widowers). Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 23:07:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Hey everyone! I just recently joined the list. I have had miserable luck trying to build up a collection, but I have been fortunate enough to find a few novel items to build a variant collection. My collection is built mainly of non-Famous Forty (for now). I was able to get copies of Oz-Story Magazine 1&2, as well as Spectral Snow (from Hungry Tiger Press) as well as SEVERAL books from Buckethead Enterprises of Oz. I found that site through a link on someone else's page. WOW! I purchased Haunted Castle of Oz, Seven Blue Mountains of Oz, Red Reera... of Oz, and Queer Quest for Oz. I was enchanted by all of them! I never realized that there are so many NEW Oz books! I think L. Frank Baum and Ruth Plumly Thompson would be overjoyed to see such a devotion to their writings, and to the land that they wrote about. Ozma MUST be smiling as she realizes all this. I heard that there will be a centennial book. Can anyone give me information on this? I wonder who will illustrate it? Who's the author? I would also like to know if anyone is willing to sell or trade to me the Oz books I'm gonna list below. I want hardbacks, but I will settle for paperbacks, though I would prefer old editions, and I don't care at all about condition. Silver Princess / Handy Mandy / Wonder City / Ojo / Captain Salt Thanks folks! Kieran Miller (Baringer@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 22:47:08 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz ********** TINY SPOILER FOR _NUMBER OF THE BEAST_ ********** Robin: I think I'll slightly disagree with you when you said that Heinlein (eventually) tied up all loose ends in his story. The whole Blackhat thing was left hanging. Granted, we know that they're the generic bad guys, but we know next to nothing about them. Also, it was still unclear at the end if all of those encountered were or were not the same person. Still, I enjoyed it too. Note: This book is not HACC-worthy, since there were no lands on the other side of the deadly desert. ********** END OF SPOILER FOR _NUMBER OF THE BEAST_ ********** Beaver(s): Either there is more than one band, or the same band has "branch offices" all over. Fairy Beaver Technician: Beaver magical support. May I help you? (muffled voice) Fairy Beaver Technician: Oh, I'm sorry. You're not in our district. Please call your local office number 47 and don't forget your registration number! David and Gordon: There was a "Twilight Zone" (or one of it's clones) in which an old man was made young again on the outside, but not the inside. In any case, David's theory seems more reasonable: That is, she really does look and feel like a young woman, but she appears to herself as old. David (and others) Thanks for the analysis of grain. To answer, yes that is enough for my purposes. The story of Egyptian grain is confirmed by a manager of a Kansas City flour mill. In a Fantasy Role Playing Game I am going to run again shortly, I am adding specific resources. One of those is grain, and I was loooking for a reasonable length of time that grain could be used for various purposes. Based on the information I received and other things, I, in my infinite wisdom and godlike power as Gamemaster, have decided that in the game, Grain has a useful life of five years. This assumes adequate storage measures by low-tech societies. Floyd and Oz: There are perhaps two or three Floyd songs that I like. I have none of his music, so I will accept the general knowledge of the "Dark Side of the Moon" and the MGM movie. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 16:35:03 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 I'm a bit surprised to find only one Digest awaiting me after I return from 56 hours or so devoted to the Ozmopolitan Convention. I won't try to do any kind of full report here, but will say that I saw a good many of the Digest people there: in alphabetical order Jane Albright, Ruth Berman, Herm Bieber, Peter Hanff, Scott Hutchins, Patrick Maund, Robin Olderman, and Steve Teller. (These are Digest people who contribute on a fairly regular basis. There may have been others who are lurkers, since I don't know who all the code names on the mailing list refer to.) And that I enjoyed the convention more than any Oz convention/conference that I've been to yet. Lake Lawn Lodge is a lovely setting, and a full-service hotel as well (unlike Asilomar, where Winkies meet and which is an equally lovely setting). It's a bit on the sprawling side, which is inconvenient for those members who aren't too spry getting around (and since I think I'm about at the median age of the attendees, that's not uncommon), but we think we have that problem solved for next year. I'll try to report on the program - which was _very_ interesting - in the next Digest or so. Craig W.: Two questions about Banner Elk in one Digest, when the subject, as far as I recall, has never come up here before, is an amazing coincidence! (Unless something in, say, a North Carolina newspaper appeared recently that stimulated both queries.) Anyhow, the only thing I know about Banner Elk is that a souvenir plate from there brought over $1000 at the last Ozmopolitan auction. Robin: Well, we've discussed the Centennial Contest at some length over the past weekend. But I still have no idea whether or not mine will make the final three or not (and neither do you, because you don't know which one was mine...). Here's some of the public information that came out at Ozmopolitan that I didn't know for sure, for the benefit of other entrants who may not know the full process either. The third judge, besides Robin and Steve, is Barbara Koelle. The three of them will agree at some point (it is hoped by the conclusion of Winkie Conference) on three finalists. Rachel Cosgrove Payes and Eloise Jarvis McGraw - the two living FF writers - have agreed to read the three finalists and each choose a winner. If they agree, that's the overall winner. If they each select a different winner, a tie-breaking judge (possibly Fred Meyer, possibly someone else) will read their two selections and make the final decision. I wouldn't have laughed at you if you'd brought ROCKET SHIP GALILEO to Ozmopolitan and I found about about it. (Did you?) You might have laughed at me - I brought THE PHANTOM SHARK ("A Rick Brant Electronic Adventure") with me for bedtime reading. I always find it relaxing to read a couple of chapters of a familiar book of juvenile fiction before turning off the light. (Most often Oz, but those books are bulky, so when traveling I usually revert to Rick Brant or Tarzan or something like that.) Far as I know TO SAIL BEYOND THE SUNSET was RAH's last book. And one of his most obnoxious, for my taste, but that's how it goes. I found it very offensive for a woman who, because of her bloodlines, had an income from a foundation that was quite adequate to live on even if her husband hadn't been something of a tycoon, to be railing about women who went out to work instead of staying home with their children. Especially when it's obvious that it's Heinlein's own voice behind her. (Heinlein was a marvelous storyteller. He was also not a very good man, imho.) Dick: In the rush of getting ready for Ozmopolitan I managed to forget to send some $$$ to Dave, but it'll go out tomorrow, I promise! I agree. Bill Stillman is doing a wonderful job on the Bugle, especially the aesthetics of it. But the content is also improving, no offense to past editors. Dave (sidenote): Since PFCHRYSSON refers to having gone to Banner Elk as "a little girl", I imagine that it's "her". Barbara: If you didn't grow up with more or less the same fictional background that Heinlein did, NUMBER OF THE BEAST would probably be pretty boring. I did, so I quite enjoyed it on one level, although as I mentioned to Robin above, while I admire Heinlein as a storyteller I don't as a person. Pity that so few wanted that T-shirt, but that's how it goes. Maybe appealing again will help. *************************************************** HEY!!!!! DON'T ANY OF THE REST OF YOU PEOPLE WANT AN "OZZY DIGEST" T-SHIRT????? IF SO, GET YOUR **** IN GEAR AND LET BARBARA KNOW!!!! *************************************************** Scott O.: Steve Teller and I don't really look a thing alike. Aside from both being somewhat overweight, having beards and High Intelligent Foreheads (although mine, which goes back well behind my ears, is much higher, if no more intelligent, than his), and wearing glasses, there isn't much resemblance. Steve and Justin Schiller (who founded the IWOC and was at Ozmopolitan), on the other hand, _do_ look a lot alike. And Jane is indeed one of the prettier ladies in Oz fandom. The picture in the BUGLE is by no means flattering. As far as I know, Dorothy only had a cow in the stage WIZARD, the version from 1901 or so. Her name was Imogene. But that's a piece of information that's so obscure that I'm amazed that it got onto a national broadcast; I doubt that there are 10,000 people in the country that know that. Jeremy: I think a non-Oz topic that inspires a fairly short answer (even if from several people), with perhaps ripples for another two or three days, is appropriate enough and keeps the Digest interesting. (Like Tyler's question about grain, to give a recent example.) But politics and religion seldom are limited to that magnitude of discussion, if they aren't quickly snuffed. Scott H.: Nice to finally meet you this weekend! Scott P.: I already have all the books you're advertising, but your prices look quite good to me based on what I'd be willing to pay for the books. (What I paid for them new, for that matter.) Assuming that their condition is near-mint. Melody: Yeah, if my wife were off at, say, a quilter's convention (which she's talked of doing at times), I might be more reconciled to temporary bachelorhood than I was when she was out taking care of her mother. According to what was said at Ozmopolitan, the final count of "judgable" MSS (meaning ones that met the basic criteria on length, I think) was 37. Just not quite enough for another Famous Forty... All this does bring up one interesting question, though. What's going to happen with the 36 MSS that don't make it? Especially the half dozen or so that are, from what I hear, very close to equal in quality to whichever wins? It would seem to be a crying shame for them to vanish without a trace. Emerald City Press has so far not found it commercially feasible to publish books in the size range of the contest books, though I understand from Peter G. that increased interest in new Oz books among bookstores may make it feasible in the near future. Buckethead lacks a strong financial basis, so publication schedules are slow and print runs and distribution are not very extensive. I have some ideas that might work (and of course, a lot would depend on what I think about the commercial viability of those MSS that don't reach the top spot - I trust Robin's and Steve's taste very much, but not quite enough to put money behind them without getting my own teeth into things), but it's not anything that's come close to jelling yet. I'd like others' reactions to the general situation, though. (Premise: there are half a dozen new Oz MSS out there that are in general comparable in quality - and length - to the FF. Fact: The IWOC will publish one of them. Query: How will most Oz fans get to read the other five?) Ruth: I'm sure you're right about the location of Phreex from the external-explaining (what I call the "Oz-as-literature") point of view. >From the internal-explaining (or what I call the "Oz-as-history") point of view, either there are two islands named Phreex (not all that implausible; there are multiple "Long Islands" and "Coney Islands" and the like in the world), or Baum got the name of one of them (presumably the one near Pingaree, which was only mentioned rather than being the site of a rather long sequence) wrong. Great seeing you at Lake Lawn! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 23:31:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Saundersrl@aol.com Subject: ozmania I've seen your list on oz book, and now ask "have you seen or have copys of all the books".I have 19 of 40 of the books and am looking,like everyone else,for the rest.I would want to collect any others,but the 40.I am however interested in copys of the other stories.Also,I'm working on a map of oz, to include every city,road,river,and house.If you can help, Richard Saunders 300 N Vista #915 Hou. TX. 77073 or e-mail [Please E-mail Richard privately, as he is not a Digest member...] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 02:26:51 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Many Days Oz Growls Having just returned from the wilds of Alaska and being sick as a sled dog and unable to sleep I will approach 11 days of Digests, in between coughs David asking for a copy of some x-rated piece from Patrick reminded me of: "Senator Smoot, Repub from Ut. ............ He protects our homes from erotic tomes, By reading them all himself." Now where did that come from? Nash? HMMMMMM! I see some of you dipping into politics with me gone. Earl, the latest rediscovery is to excuse any bad behavior with "Well, the other guys do that too. So what!" I think that is officially DNC Strategy No. 8. Tyler! Care to buy a spot on the White Water? I think you could pick it up cheap. Jeremy >And I have long championed the success of single-parents and adoption-based families, as I believe them to have potential for just as much success as natural families. Really! Please share your basis for this conclusion? Bob Spark >If I die, then wake up I'll be the most surprised person that you've ever met. I'll also probably be the most regretful one, but what is a poor atheist boy to do? How does that go....."An atheist at his funeral is someone who is all dressed up with nowhere to go. :) Well the new Bugle just arrived. Ruth, I'll buy your book. Is your address still correct? :) Also excellent reviews are all by our fellow Digesters. David - Could the Heinlein have been "Rocketship Galileo?" There was actually a copy in my high school library along with "Ralph 124C41+." Dave - Add me to the list if you decide you need some financial support. Tyler - I don't know about corn but I have Mormon friends who store red wheat. I think it will last "indefinitely" if the weavils don't get in. I think they do something to drive all the oxygen out of the storage container. Well, the sun is rising. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:46:06 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy pronounciation of pyrzqxql Way, way back on 5/20, David Hulan wrote: > OTOH, I know what you mean; I tried very, very hard to find the right > pronunciation of "pyrzqxgl" when I was a kid. > Why, in Hebrew, pronounciation without explicit vowels is second nature. That's why you were having trouble. It's easy. Using standard transliteration from Hebrew, we see that this "word" is really a sentence: "Pi raz kach gol", which means "the mouth of the the secret took a marble". Why this should be a magic formula, I'm not sure. "Abra cadabra" ("I will create as I have said", Aramaic) makes a heck of a lot more sense, but who am I to question the ways of magic? BTW, those of you who are Royal Club of Oz members may have noticed that Baruch did _not_ win the Junior division of the "Invent a way to get to Oz" contest (beaten out by a six year old. Oh, the shame!), but did get honorably mentioned. He already has the plotline in place for the next contest (invent a way to esacpe from a wicked witch using the powder of life), althoughhe has not yet written the story. I remain, still struggling to catch up on old news, --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:42:36 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 Scott: The cow's name was Imogene! Dave: Michael Gessel informed me that both _The Abominable Dr. Phibes_ and _Dr. Phibes Rises Again_ both feature (in the same footage) Vincent Price singing "Over the Rainbow." Everybody going to the Winkie Convention: Unless you are an absolute completist, do NOT buy a copy of the audiocassette Patrick Maund has. He let me listen to it and it was actually pretty dull (_The Human Horn_ is the title. One song is "Over the Rainbow."). It also has some foul language on it. I bet Robin will have a marked up Enchanted Island of Yew there, that was at Bibliophiles in Delavan for $275. I actually said to the gut there it would probably sell to someone like Robin. I found an _Annotated Alice_ for $3.00. I have never read the annotated version before, so it should be interesting. The public library tells me I've wasted my once-in-a-lifetime claims returned on the Annotated Wizard of Oz, even though they managed to find it in the library, put it back on the shelf, and have subsequently checked it out again. Last time it was on the shelf, so I think that cliams returned ought to be recalled since it was the library that was in error. Marc Berezin found vol 1 of _The X-Rated Videotape Guide_ and said it was a a psuedoscience fiction film by John Gold about sex hating women who lock up all the men. Perhaps someone involved drew a similarity to _Land_ or something and got the title that way. Justin was telling me about the adult _Alice in Wonderland_, and I don't think I want to see it. He said I should try to get the shabby costume adult _Wizard_ to put in the club's X-rated drawer with a comicbook some guy donated. Jane: I xeroxed the review of _Oz_ (20th Century Oz) from _The Last New Wave_ (it is the favorable review quoted in _The World of Oz_) and from his summary, it seems rather crass, but no worse and far less violent than _Wild at Heart_. I don't remember the author's name, but he makes it seem that the film is well worth seeing. Some of the songs on the album are quite good, others are annoying. Two of the songs have lyrics that are not things I think a child should hear ("The Mood" and "Greaseball") though I doubt if they would get the album a warning label today. When I got home from the convention, I had a whole lot more stuff for the filmography, but I didn't have my filmography to correct some of the _Under the Rainbow_ typos I found. I only remember one. The clip of _The Wonderful Land of Oz_ that was shown in Leonard Swann's documentary looked like a really arty student film from a film school. As I understand, Barry Mahon was a bottom of the barrel maker of nudies. He was making them because they were the cheapest type of film he could make and turn a profit. When he had made enough from these, he moved up to science fiction and fantasy, and thought quite highly of his Oz film, and said it was timeless. David Greene kept telling me how horrible it was, but now that I have seen the clip I definitely want to see the whole thing. Added to my filmography since receiving my award are: more info on _Number 13_ (THE Elizabeth Taylor put up most of the money, I have a lot more, too, but I don't remember it and don't have the printout) The existing footage is known as _The Tin Woodsman's Dream_ [sic "s"] and runs 9 minutes. I don't know where Marc Lewis got his credits for this film (with a 108 running time) or his oddly inaccurate credits for _Aysecik_, with credits like "angel" (there was none) "Iron Man" (He is called Teneke Koruadam (=Tin Woodman (though the s makes it probably more accurate)) and "Lion Man" (he is called Aslan Korkat (=Cowardly Lion)). I imagine if C.S. Lewis's estate sued you for calling a character Aslan, if he clearly was not the Narnia Aslan, would have about as much ground as Osamu Tezuka's estate suing you for calling a lion "Leo." _Aysecik, the Poor Princess_ (pre-'64 Degirmencioglu Aysecik film) Jane's appearance on _Personal FX_ with her Oz collection (if I get a copy of this, I will of course, have to added everybody who appeared in the episode. Sorry Jane! I suppose then it won't look like you're the star of the program. _Charles Santore Illustrates the Wizard of Oz_ _The Muppet Show_ episode (courtesy Marc Berezin and Michelle Naylor) _Donny and Marie_ episode (courtesy Michelle Naylor) _Paradise_ episode with L. Frank Baum character (courtesy Michelle Naylor) The other two stories of _Fantasia... 3_ (This Spanish film features "The Little Mermaid," _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_, and "The Three Hairs of the Devil") also added the art director's name (courtesy Marc Berezin) _Clueless_ reference (courtesy Michelle Naylor) _Dr Phibes_ references (courtesy Michael Gessel) Art director of the aborted _Return to the Land of Oz_ was Preston Blair (later the associate producer of _Journey Back to Oz_. Now I wonder if this was the working title, particularly considering the record Eric Shanower offered, that changed hands partway through) Now that I have my own autographed copy of the MGM pictorial history I corrected some typos of the names of people I had as "additional crew" I also added the names of the publicity staff. I forgot to add Sendak to the RTO credits. I still haven't combed through it so carfeully to determine what uncredited roles these people filled. Most of the time when I find out what some unknown did, like Sydney Guilaroff, it is usually someone I didn't know worked on the film at all. I e-mailed John Fricke about these people specifically, but he never got back to me. Michelle noted at lunch that she had no idea who Allegro Da Capo was, so Stephen had to tell her about him. Allegedly, he is in the coronation sequence, but he is one of the few I could never find in either the film or the production still. Bruce Boa appeared as the Policeman both at the end with the paddywagon and in the coronation sequence. The tenth anniversary Bugle retrospect shows this quite clearly. While we're still on Ozma (I hope I can catch up on the Hitchcock readings so I can reread DOTWIZ for the first time for our discussions. I haven't read it, other than looking a few things up, since I was in fourth grade, so I won't be much in the discussion otherwise, Maybe I should get off the computer and start reading) I was wondering what people thought about the eggs. It doesn't seem like it was mentioned much what little effect the eggs had on Roquat when Scarecrow beaned him with them. Could it be psychological, or would my mystery character's mandatory egg breakfasts be lesws effective than she thinks... If someone wants an audiocassette of the _20th Century Oz_ soundtrack, or a homemade audiocassette copy of musical highlights from the Children's Theatre Company Marvelous Land of Oz (which also features material from the Cinar Films, Under the Rainbow Shuki Levy's theme to the "Tinmanator" anime, and the 1994 Volshebnik as a bonus), Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum (with bonus material from Aysecik) or a real rarity, an audio recording of my middle school production, write me privately and I'll tell you about snail-mailing a tape. They are neither of a quality or of a legality that I could sell them, but they are great to listen to. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 14:40:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 I was curious if anyone knew if the Marc Allen Lewis who plays Santa Claus and the Nome King on _The Oz Kids_ is the Oz club Marc Lewis. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 15:53:00 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Two questions: 1) I can't find my info packet; when is the deadline for registering for the Munchkin convention? 2) I saw _Dorothy Return to Oz_ by Ted(?) Tedrow today in a used bookstore. It's only $6 for the hardcover first edition (I would guess the only edition), but is the book even worth reading or owning? I usually don't bother with this kind of stuff unless there's a compelling reason. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 14:51:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 Emerald City (1991) directed by Michael Jenkins, written by David Williamson, based on his play. Williamson is the brother-in-law of Chris Lofven. This stars Nicholas (Spider-Man) Hammond and Nicole Kidman. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 14:53:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 Marc Berezin claims that there may have been a 1993 Wizard of Oz cartoon written by Barbara A. Oliver with Doug Parker as the voive director. I'm still convinced he is mistaking it for the 1991 "Tinmantor" cartoon. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 15:43:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest The Ozmapolitan Convention this past weekend was a lot of fun -- getting together with such old friends as Robin Olderman, Davids Hulan and Greene, Peter Hanff, Steve Teller, Patrick Maund, Edith and Warren Hollister, Justin Schiller, Fred Meyer, Barbara Koelle, Michael Gessel, Herm Bieber, John Tower; and meeting such new friends as Jane Albright, Scott Hutchins, Michael Riley (whose forthcoming book on Baum's world-building from the University of Kansas sounds likely to be an insightful study), Margaret Berg (the most prolific Oz short-story writer?), Theo Carson (who alerted me to the 1908 appearance of "The Wizard of Oz" in Boston), Michelle Naylor (my room-mate), Bill Stillman, Jay Scarfone; and nattering on about what people have been doing, Oz books, Oz movies, etc. The focus of the programming was on Club history (and future history, as it were, in Bill Stillman's talk on plans for upcoming "Bugles"). David G. on the history of the IWWOC and Peter Hanff on the various Ozcons gave nostalgically entertaining slide talks (drawing occasional tears with tributes to such Ozcon attendees no longer with us as Dick Martin, Frank and Brenda Baum, Ruth Plumly Thompson, Margaret Hamilton, Jim Nitch, Fred Otto, Roy Roy MacVeigh). There was a video (abridged from a full-length video just out from Sirocco Productions on Oz and Oz collectibles, with a shorter companion video on Charles Santores' Oz art -- Santores did the cover art for these, too); the video pair looked to be good presentations, and I enjoyed the selections, but didn't really have enough interest in collectibles to sign up to get the two videos myself. Speaking of Imogene the cow, as Scott Olson was, and of the 1902 stageplay -- Some of you know that I've been working on an article on "The Wizard on the Road." I don't, of course, have a complete survey of where and when it played, but I focused on some representative cities that I could check in the U of MN's collection of microfilms of newspapers. For Minneapolis/St. Paul, New York, and Chicago (because I could check U MN dissertations on local theater history, "New York Times Index" and Michael Patrick Hearn's "Bugle" article on Chicago), I am reasonably sure that the dates of performance I discussed are all the ones there are. It occurs to me, though, that it would be a good idea to ask if anyone in the group knows of performances in Boston other than 1903, 1904, early 1908, and 1911/1912; or of performances in St. Louis other than 1906. Also, although I don't have access to western newspapers for the right years, and so wouldn't be able to check reviewers' reactions myself, I wonder if anyone knows dates of performances out west -- and, for that matter, although I probably can't add much to the representative sample without making the article unreasonably long, I wonder if anyone knows dates of performances for places other than Chicago, NY, Boston, Mpls/St.P, and St. Louis. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 17:48:04 -0400 From: "Gessel, Michael" Subject: Digest I am seeing information on Noel Langley, one of the screenwriters of the MGM motion picture version of The Wizard of Oz. This is for an article I am writing for The Baum Bugle. I would appreciate people getting in touch with me if they have had any contact with him when he was alive, knows someone who had been in touch with him, has any special knowledge of his life and works, or can refer me to any articles/books about him. --Michael Gessel michael.gessel@mail.house.gov ====================================================================== Date: Monday 09-Jun-97 18:14:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Hi everyone! I'll bet you were wondering what became of me! It turns out that Singra enchanted Delphi so that it refused to acknowledge my last monthly payment. As a result Delphi locked me out of cyberspace and I was therefore unable to read my E-mail or send out the Digest from Friday morning until this (Monday) afternoon...It's the longest I've ever been offline all at once and it almost killed me! :) My hearty thanks very much to the seven people (so far) who have generously donated to keep the Ozzy Digest going...Please keep them coming! Once again, my mailing address is: Dave Hardenbrook 9502 Erskine Drive Huntington Beach CA 92646-6007 ONE MORE REASON WHY OZMA REFUSES TO INSTILL A TWO-PARTY SYSTEM IN OZ: :) I got the Baum Bugle today...YAY! I especially enjoyed the Ozzy Political cartoons... Jellia: Maybe we *should* have a two-party system in Oz...At least then Oz would have one party more than the USA has! ;) And with these words, let's put an end to the political discussions (at least publicly on the Digest), okay guys? SCOTT'S PAGE: Bob Spark wrote: > I attempted to go to >http:///www.venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid=1153 with no success. >I was told that Netscape could not find that URL. did I do something >wrong? There is no 'www' in the URL - Just http://venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid=1153 (This has come up on the Digest before -- not *ALL* URL's begin with 'www' -- My own being a prime example: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47) CENTENNIAL BOOK: Kieran Miller (Baringer@aol.com) wrote: > I heard that there will be a centennial book. Can anyone give me >information on this? I wonder who will illustrate it? Who's the author? It's a contest in which many aspiring Ozzy authors (including me) submitted manuscripts...David Hulan talks more about it in his post for today... David wrote: >All this does bring up one interesting question, though. What's going to >happen with the 36 MSS that don't make it? Especially the half dozen or >so that are, from what I hear, very close to equal in quality to >whichever wins? It would seem to be a crying shame for them to vanish >without a trace. Emerald City Press has so far not found it commercially >feasible to publish books in the size range of the contest books, though >I understand from Peter G. that increased interest in new Oz books among >bookstores may make it feasible in the near future. Buckethead lacks a >strong financial basis, so publication schedules are slow and print runs >and distribution are not very extensive. I hope Books of Wonder *will* accept FF-length manuscripts in future...That was the real reason I had to submit _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ to Buckethead...And given that I had not yet entered puberty when Melody first submitted her recently-published _Seven Blue Mountains of Oz_ to Buckethead, it may be a while before _Locasta_ sees daylight ( unless of course it wins the Contest! :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 10 - 11, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 19:40:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-06-97 I'll bet lots of us know about Dorothy's cow Imogene. It was easier to work a two-person "cow" onstage than a real dog. Steve and David do not look much alike, in spite of the BUGLE photos. As for my own picture, I didn't send one in. I'm "round" and hate looking at all those chins. (O.K., there are only two of 'em, but still...) Barb: Check prices for a transfer design as opposed to screening. Cheaper process. OzCon: Very enjoyable. Lake Lawn Lodge is beautiful. The surrounding communities are interesting. I'm glad we'll be back next year. The program was good and the company was grand. Good to see some old friends again and good to meet some new ones. I'll be interested to see Scott's reactions. He was a newbie, but seemed to enjoy himself. The highlight for me was Pete's slide presentation of so many old friends from many years ago up 'til the present. Leonard Swann's Oz video seems interesting. I'll probably watch it later this week: I certainly did buy a copy. I'll also pre-order Michael Riley's book. Boy, would Michael enjoy the DIGEST! His book delves into Baum's fantasy world using *all* of his fantasies, not just Oz. The auction was short and funny. Patrick is a hoot. Bargains abounded, although some of the bidding went kinda nutsy. A non-functioning Mattel music box (c.1967) went for about $200. We had to stop the bidding for a moment to make sure that everyone knew it didn't work! (Maybe the bidders thought that Patrick and I, who sang the "Pop Goes the Weasel" music, went with the purchase? ) Ruth: Gonna come back next year? Huh? Huh! We-ell-ll? (Please) David: Thanks for having been Registrar. You did a fine job. Steve-O: I'll start my rereading this week. Scott H.: Nice meeting you. Patrick: So what does a Libertarian think of the internet? It's a byproduct of government (military) intelligence. Dave: Are you coming to Winkies? I'll slip you a fiver there, if you are. You certainly deserve it. --Robin O. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 03:12:59 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Congrats to David, Scott & Ruth who answered "Imogene" correctly for the name of Dorothy's cow. That does seem like a funny question to ask, now, doesn't it? It would have made more sense to ask the name of Dorothy's cat! Re: Ruth's comments about Neill's drawing of Oz maps on _Tic-Tok_ endpapers: Your comments about the _Tic-Tok_ endpaper maps was the first time I can remember (and I know that's not saying much) someone crediting their creation to Neill. Has this always been the case? I had always assumed Baum designed them and some unknown Reilly & Britton graphic artist put them together. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 20:39:03 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 References: <01IJVT9JP3GY8WYSU7@delphi.com> Greetings, I have deleted my signature file about Republicans by Mencken as a sign of my complete acceptance of the political ban. > In the 6/5-6 Digest David Hulan suggests statistical analyses of survival > rates of widowers vs. non-widowers. I don't recall any such studies > (although there probably are some) but I do recall studies showing that > married men live longer than unmarried men (bachelors, divorced & > widowers). A point of personal privilege, applicable to no one else: As a perfectly happy divorced person of long standing, for me married existence just seemed longer. > (Heinlein was a marvelous storyteller. He was also not a very good man, > imho.) Hear, Hear! You have my complete concurrence. Bob Spark -- "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." Groucho Marx ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:40:36 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Tyler: A friendly correction FYI: Pink Floyd is a British rock band consisting of several musicians, *not* a single person. IMO much of their music is dated (this from someone who's been called by some a "retro rocker"), but the best of it is really quite good, albeit somewhat depressing. Ironically, I don't care much for the two albums that are considered their masterpieces, "Dark Side of the Moon" and "The Wall." For those who care, I recommend "Wish You Were Here" and "Animals." Incidentally, I still haven't tried to pair the album with the movie. The reason is a testament to the enduring popularity of the movie: whenever I look for it at the video store, it's been checked out by someone else. <> -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:37:36 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Hi Digest! I'm back, but I've only skimmed the last digest, I haven't been rading for quite a while, so please fogive me if I'm not up to date. Also forgive in advance many typos and spelling errors: my modem is so slow that I've given up on correcting them. I'm back in Israel, by the way, but will be returning to the U.S. in the fall. I apologize to any of you who have sent me personal e-mail that I have not responded to: this was very rude of me. I have a backlog to reread and answer, bwhich I will get around to in the next couple of days. One of the last things I did at harvard before the end of the school year was watch The Wizard of Oz with the "Dark Side of the Moon" soundtrack. In my eyes, the match is clearly coincidental, but there are many very effective coincidences and it was a lot of fun. The Pink Floyd music gives a whole new twist to the movie that is a little eerie. Craig (I think) - don't buy Tedrows book, it is awful. Wait, there are Ozzy Digest t-shirts? Finally! Yay! So, details - who do I write for mine? Shaggy Man - about "pi raz kach gol", cute, but farfetched. also, "kach" is not past tense but in the form for a command, and the word for a marble in modern hebrew is "gula", not "gol". "gol" would be a soccer cry... ("goal". There's a lot of borrowing in hebrew...)Never mind about Baruch not taking first place. We all know he is destined to be a great Oz author nonetheless. :-) Also, back to irrelevencies, I know a number of haapy and successful single-parent families, my own included. But if anyone would like to discuss this with me I suggest taking it into private email. happy to be back! |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:49:46 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Hi everyone, Wow! Bill Stillman seems to have done the impossible: the Spring 97 Baum Bugle arrived yesterday... and it's actually SPRING 97!!! He's done a great job getting our publication back on schedule. Interesting features, also. An NPR interview with the author of a new book titled _The History of Money_ ended with his assertion of the the Baum populist allegory theory. Yikes... don't these stories EVER die out? Cheers, Scott Cummings ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:43:01 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Ooh, ooh, sign me up for a Digest T-shirt! How's about that. I lurk forever and this is the only thing I can come up with to say? Well, until something else of burning importance comes up, :) Danny ozbot@ix.netcom.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:27:49 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Jeremy: Since Dave didn't answer your question himself - the Tin Woodman logo was designed by former (and we hope future, when she's less busy) Digest member Gili bar-Hillel, specifically as a header for the Digest, when some members suggested it should have one. It's been around for rather over a year now, IIRC. The address of the IWOC is P.O. Box 266, Kalamazoo, MI 49004-0266. Unfortunately, I don't recall what the current dues are, and I think there's a special rate for students anyhow. Maybe someone else will tell you that. Gordon: I see what you're saying about Zixi, but, for instance, how could she be physically toothless and still eat normal food? And yet there's no indication that her banquets feature only purees and thin soups and the like, and it wouldn't be a very good illusion if they had to. I think Baum's "deceive" refers only to essence, and not to physical reality. But there's no real way to know. John K.: I don't think there's all that much indication that in the fictional universe that includes Oz and Santa Claus, all enchanted countries are in the Nonestic. Some certainly are - we know that Mo, Ix, Noland, Ev, Hiland, Loland, Merryland, Boboland, etc. are, for instance - but there are a good many enchanted countries that may or may not be. Yew is only the most prominent example, but there are quite a lot of enchanted countries in AMERICAN FAIRY TALES and THE RUNAWAY SHADOWS that are given no direct tie-in to Nonestica. (Burzee itself, for that matter, isn't really tied to Nonestica by Baum that I can recall. It appears in a book (ZIXI) where most of the action takes place in Nonestica, but it also appears in a book (SANTA CLAUS) where much of the action clearly takes place in our world. Fairies can get around easily; it may be elsewhere. However, since Snow (not always the most accurate reporter) places it in Nonestica, and Baum doesn't say it isn't, it's undoubtedly just as well to accept that Burzee is in Nonestica.) Haff and Martin put all these enchanted countries in Nonestica on their map, but that map isn't canonical. Melody: Thanks for the description of the Banner Elk Oz attraction. It sounds as if it would have been a fun place for Oz fans to visit. Too bad it's no longer there. Earl: I've seen those studies about married men living longer cited. It undoubtedly makes sense, which is why I thought a survey of widowers vs. other non-married men would be the proper type. I think that typically married men will eat healthier food, if nothing else; I know that even though I do most of the cooking for the two of us, I hate cooking just for myself and end up eating out most of the time if I'm alone. (And then I remember the gag that was popular in my youth, and probably still is - that it's not really that married men live longer, it just _seems_ longer. Not, needless to say, one I agree with.) Kieran: Welcome to the Digest! Most of the Famous Forty are available today, either from the International Wizard of Oz club, Del Rey, or Books of Wonder, or more than one of the above, if what you're interested in are reading copies (in many cases beautifully produced). Del Rey has all the Baum books in paperback. Books of Wonder has all the Baum books through SCARECROW in beautiful facsimile (except for PATCHWORK GIRL, which had about a dozen words and one illustration edited out because of their racial insensitivity) editions. They also have the Neill, Snow, and McGraw books in both hard and soft covers, and several of the late Thompsons. (IIRC they have CAPTAIN SALT, HANDY MANDY, SILVER PRINCESS, and OZOPLANING.) And they've just issued a facsimile of ROYAL BOOK. The IWOC has PB editions of the Thompsons through JACK PUMPKINHEAD, IIRC, as well as facsimile editions of SCARECROW, SPEEDY, and WISHING HORSE, and full-size softcovers of some of the later Thompsons and HIDDEN VALLEY. The only FF books that are hard to find today are the Thompsons from YELLOW KNIGHT through OJO. And then, in addition to the new books from Buckethead, there are a lot of new ones from Emerald City Press/Books of Wonder, including (kaff-kaff) THE GLASS CAT OF OZ, which I wrote. As for the centennial book, Dave partially answered your question. The illustrator hasn't been chosen yet, as far as I know, though I for one will be disappointed if it isn't either Melody Grandy or Eric Shanower (unless, of course, neither of them is willing to do it for what the IWOC is willing to pay). There are artists who are probably better overall - Trina Schart Hyman comes to mind - but none who are likely to create illustrations that feel as much like "real" Oz. Books of Wonder has all the books you list as specific wants except OJO available in new editions (paperback only, but full size). If you want old ones, Robin Olderman and Herm Bieber here on the Digest both deal in Oz books and can tell you which of any of them they have. (Herm is out of the country for a while, though. Try E-mailing Robin directly at robino@tenet.edu to see what she has.) Scott H.: Baum appears to get around the fact that Roquat was hit with a couple of eggs and survived when he says in TIK-TOK that a nome has to say a certain magic word, known to very few, very quickly after being touched by the interior of an egg or he will wither up and blow away. Presumably Roquat is one of the nomes who knows this word, so he was able to save his life - but it was no doubt as traumatic an experience as, say, having a bullet miss one's head by a quarter inch or so would be. Craig: I haven't read Tedrow's book, but from all I've heard it's not worth the time to read it, much less spending good money for a copy. Unless you're a real completist. I've never seen a good word for it. Ruth: Thanks for the Ozmopolitan report; it leaves me less to have to say when/if I get around to doing a report myself. Maybe I'll do that this afternoon; it's closing in on lunch time and I want to send this to Dave before I go out. Dave: My contribution is now in the mail. I believe in the two-party system. One on Friday night and one on Saturday night! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:27:59 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 References: <01IJVT9JP3GY8WYSU7@delphi.com> > Lazy me. Still have not gotten around to resubscribing to the Club. Can > someone give me the current address? (Sorry if I've asked this before, but I > don't have all the Digests past nor any sort of memory.) > The International Wizard of Oz Club P.O. Box 266 Kalamazoo, MI 49004-0266 The current dues are $25.00 for persons over 17 years. You can find the membership form on > > Scott: > I've seen most of Fellini's movies, but unfortunately I haven't seen Jerry > Rees's _The Brave Little Toaster_. Is it available on video? > > --Gordon Birrell > It is, it is from Willard Carroll's Hyperion studios, which also made the OZ KIDS series (and the current HBO series HAPPILY EVER AFTER). Indeed, the toaster and friends appear towards the end of CHRISTMAS IN OZ. > > While I am in total agreement that extraneous discussion is best > kept to a relative minimum, I believe that as responsible adults we (or > most of us) will do so, however some of our more interesting > discussions--to me--have been to some degree off the subject of OZ. > Forbidding any subject smacks of censorship and I am definitely NOT in > agreement with that. > > Bob Spark > I am also opposed to censorship, but this IS the "Ozzy" Digest. > > Hey everyone! I just recently joined the list. I have had miserable luck > trying to build up a collection, but I have been fortunate enough to find a > few novel items to build a variant collection. One of the best ways to build up a collection is to attend International Wizard of Oz Club Conventions. The autions at these collections usually have very desirable items which often go at ridiculously low prices. After the auctions, dealers are allowed to sell their wares. > I would also like to know if anyone is willing to sell or trade to me > the Oz books I'm gonna list below. I want hardbacks, but I will settle for > paperbacks, though I would prefer old editions, and I don't care at all about > condition. > Silver Princess / Handy Mandy / Wonder City / Ojo / Captain Salt > Kieran Miller (Baringer@aol.com) All except OJO are in print from either IWOC or Books of Wonder. > > Steve and Justin Schiller (who founded the IWOC and was at > Ozmopolitan), on the other hand, _do_ look a lot alike. > I had a picture taken with Justin, I may submit a copy to the OZ OBSERVER > > According to what was said at Ozmopolitan, the final count of "judgable" > MSS (meaning ones that met the basic criteria on length, I think) was > 37. Just not quite enough for another Famous Forty... > Actually 36 1/2--One MS was unfinished. > All this does bring up one interesting question, though. What's going to > happen with the 36 MSS that don't make it? Especially the half dozen or > so that are, from what I hear, very close to equal in quality to > whichever wins? They belong to their authors, and only they can decide what to do with them. > David Hulan Actually there is more than quality that determined which books were the most likely to be selected. Some were very good but did not make the top list because they were too specialized for the general audience that the contest required. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:55:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Scott H.: Why on earth would you assume that I'd buy an overpriced copy of YEW and then mark it up even further? What the he** have I done to deserve that kind of comment? I find it offensive. >> I bet Robin will have a marked up Enchanted Island of Yew there, that was at Bibliophiles in Delavan for $275. I actually said to the gut there it would probably sell to someone like Robin. deserve that kind of comment? Herm and I looked at those books at Bibliomaniac(let's at least get the name of the store right). The owner brought them there for us to see. I bought two black and white Oz books rather cheaply; they were affordable for the shop because of my dealer discount and because I have customers for them, so I don't have to mark up much at all...fast turnaround means low markup...I'll sell them at just about what they were marked at Bibliomaniac. We purchased (actually Herm purchased) the jacketed copy of DOTWIZ that went at auction the same day. Neither of us bought it to mark it up for our own profit. Either of us could have. Yes, Marc A. Lewis is "our" Marc Lewis. He has done a fair amount of voiceover work for Willard. Tyler: I don't think Heinlein tried to tie up *all* his loose ends in THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST, nor do I think it's great Heinlein. I just enjoy it for what it is. And I agree with David that the book probably appeals more to our generation than to a younger one. David: There certainly has been discussion about possibly publishing some of those other MSS, too. Believe me, we agree they shouldn't just "disappear." Bear: Feel better, darlin'--have you tried chicken soup? There are other things I wanted to respond to , but I think I'll just pass. My blood pressure is up too high already, thanks to Scott's carelessly callous comment. Yes, if you can't tell it already, I'm angry. You betcha! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:41:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Melody: Enjoyed your description of the Banner Elk Oz park. Bear: Sorry, but the Greene boys got in just a few decades ahead of you in buying that extra Bradbury volume. The address continued current for a long time after that, but isn't anymore. (When I dream a dream that takes place in a house, though, that's still the house that it usually takes place in.) It occurs to me people might like to know ordering information on Michael O. Riley's "Oz and Beyond: the Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum" and Sirocco's pair of Oz videos. "Oz and Beyond" is due out in August from University Press of Kansas, 2501 W 15 Str, Lawrence KS 66049; it's $29.95, and UPS postage for one book is $3.50 (or book rate postage is $3.00; either way, for additional books on one order it's $.50 each; 6.9% sales tax for Kansas addresses). Sirocco Productions is at 5660 E Va. Beach Blvd #103, Norfolk VA 23502; "OzL The American Fairyland" is $49.95 and runs 115 minutes, "Charles Santore illustrates The Wizard of Oz" is $19.95 and runs 30 minutes, and the pair together is $59.75 ($3.00 shipping charge; 4.5 sales tax for Virginia addresses). Another postscript is that I'm not sure if I made it clear that in asking about dates of "Wizard of Oz" onstage (in places other than Chi, NY, Mpls/ St.P, Boston, and St.L) I meant only the Baum-Tietjens play. I'm not trying to cover the versions by Elizabeth Chapman Fuller, Frank Gabrielson, and so on. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Hello again! (I had become somewhat worried that I was abruptly unsubscribed--no offense meant, Dave.) Re Oz book package deal (a Digest or two ago, as quoted by Scott P): I'd also like to bite (whole deal), if supplies are still available. Can you bill me? Re Forbidden Subjects: Okay, I see your point, Bob. No forbidding allowed! :-) * * * Dave, I second the motion. Re One Ocean (I am being serious here): Why not say the world's oceans are also part of the Nonestic, perhaps in another plane if necessary. They (Earth's oceans) are connected, after all, and if magical countries get to be in the Nonestic, why can't we be too? Re Banner Elk: That's what the suicidal Oz character said, referring to the semi-Oz fan regarding what the character wanted the fan to do to Oz books. (Weak, but I had to say it. Sorry.) OD T-shirts: Oh, I forgot completely--I'd like one; how much did you say you charged (and what is your address, Barbara)? Re grain: True, normally I'd not care a wheat, but it does give the Digest variety . . ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:46:14 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Ozmopolitan and DotWiz Having taken care of my other duties for the day, and with no Digest yet on hand, I thought I'd spend a while giving more of a report on the program at the Ozmopolitan Convention, and then make some remarks on DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ. Ozmopolitan: Friday evening started with a "show and tell", emceed by the Digest's own Steve Teller. There were quite a few people with interesting Ozzy items that they showed us and told us about, including Ruth Berman with a very interesting set of items she'd dug up in the microfilm archives at the University of Minnesota library (especially non-Oz artwork by Neill, and some art by RPT's favorite artists from the Philadelphia papers), and Scott Hutchins with a small part of his extensive collection of Oz-related videos. After that David Greene reminisced (assisted by slides) about the early days of THE BAUM BUGLE. When Justin Schiller went off to college, there was danger of the BUGLE (and with it, probably the IWOC - or it might still have been The Wizard of Oz Fan Club, which was its original name) folding, but Dick Martin and Fred Meyer stepped into the gap and continued to produce the BUGLE for several years. After a while, though, Martin began to burn out, and David and his twin brother Doug, with the assistance of James Haff, took over. David showed us copies of a lot of correspondence among the various people who did most of the Oz club's work in its first 15 years or so, as well as a lot of early BUGLE covers, among his slides. I wasn't involved in the club at the time, so for me it was nostalgia at second hand, but I'd known a number of the members through other connections during that time and found it fascinating. Then Leonard Swann gave a short talk about his just-released videos, and showed a 20-minute teaser from the 115-minute documentary on Baum. I bought that one, though I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. There's another, shorter one in which the artist Charles Santore discusses illustrating THE WIZARD OF OZ, which I didn't buy. Bill Stillman (current editor of the BUGLE) and Jay Scarfone were heavily involved in the production of the Baum video, and based on the teaser it looks well worth the $49.95 price unless you're on a very tight budget. Saturday morning Bill Stillman led a discussion on future issues of the BUGLE; unfortunately, I was unable to attend that one because of Registrar duties. Then there were the Oz quizzes; modesty forbids me to say who won the adult quiz - though I'll have to admit that none of the deadliest potential competitors, like Robin or Steve or Patrick, took it. After that first Peter Hanff and David Greene led a discussion of Ozian bibliography, and then Jane Albright, Robin Olderman, and Barbara Koelle talked about the current state of plans for the Centennial. (That's where I picked up the information on the book contest that I related in my last post to the Digest. I learned some other things as well at the convention, but in private conversations; I don't feel I should mention those. No, they did not include anything about who might or might not win.) The most promising possibility at the moment appears to be for a convention in Bloomington, Indiana, at a conference center associated with Indiana University. IU has a major Oz collection, which would make it appropriate. If that falls through, then Plan B is just to have the usual regional conventions in 2000, but with a centennial theme. The earlier, more grandiose ideas of a convention at the Del Coronado or the Palmer House foundered on the problem of cost. Saturday afternoon, after a brief business meeting where it was decided to return to Lake Lawn Lodge next year (but on the third weekend in June rather than the first), was devoted to the usual interminable auction. (That's my reaction. The auction is an important fund-raiser for the club, and is also a way for collectors to get Stuff at a fairly reasonable price, so I'm not objecting to it. But it's a time when I generally retire to my room to nap or read, because it has no interest for me.) Saturday evening Michael Riley gave a talk on his forthcoming book, _Oz and Beyond: The Magical Worlds of L. Frank Baum_. This sounds to me like a book I must have. As has probably been fairly obvious from my many posts on the Digest, my primary interest in Oz is in the world of Oz (and its borderlands); I'm not particularly interested in the books as artifacts, or in collectibles, or in the movies, though I find them mildly interesting in about the same way that I view Alice in Wonderland collectibles, etc. Riley appears to have zeroed in on the primary aspect of my Ozian interests that would make any sense for a scholarly work (I don't think an analysis of Ozma's reign from a political standpoint would get one many publish-or-perish points...); I hope that BoW or some other reasonably accessible source will offer the book, but if I don't hear anything about it by fall then I guess I'll have to contact the University of Kansas Press directly. I don't - within reason - care what it costs. And then the programming was concluded with Peter Hanff showing slides taken at Oz conventions through the years, starting with the first one at Bass Lake (where the resort was run by Harry Baum, one of L. Frank's sons) in, IIRC, 1961, and continuing through a Winkie Conference recent enough that I was in one of the pictures. It was interesting, if in some ways saddening, to see people who were young high school or college aged kids in the early days and are now middle-aged, or were spryly middle-aged in the early photos and are now barely able to get around. And saddest of all, of course, were the numerous members who have passed beyond the shifting sands. As it happens, Jim Nitch was the only one of those that I'd ever talked to personally, and only a couple of the others had I ever even seen to know who they were, but it was clear from the reactions of those who had known them that I'd missed a great deal by not having been in personal contact with Oz fans much earlier. After that we adjourned to the Great Room, where people sat and schmoozed; most of the group I was with, as it happened, were Digest people: Robin, Ruth, Steve, and Herm, along with Rik Thompson from the Bay Area and Steve's wife Nikki and son Jamie. (Jamie regaled us with very detailed descriptions of some HBO children's programming that he'd seen. He's a very bright kid.) And in the morning we had a rather nice brunch (no champagne, though, but then I had a long drive home...), said our farewells, and went our separate ways until Winkies or next year, depending on who we're talking about. Dotwiz: We've tossed this book around a good deal already over the past year and a half, so saying something fresh may be difficult. It's certainly the darkest and gloomiest of Baum's books, without much humor and what there is rather black. It's also an Idiot Plot, in that if Dorothy had just remembered in the beginning that Ozma would bring her to Oz if she made a sign at 4:00, most of her adventures would have been avoided. And it doesn't reflect well on Ozma that, even though Dorothy didn't make the sign, she left her little friend in serious danger when she must have seen the problem. The trial of Eureka is also a classic kangaroo court, and again doesn't reflect very well on Ozma. Eureka is probably not more than eight or ten weeks old (she seems to have just started eating solid food); sure, she's sassy and even offensive in some of her remarks, but putting her to death is about the equivalent of capital punishment for a human 10-year-old. This is not what I think a wise and warm-hearted ruler would do. As a final query: does anyone know if there was a fashion in posing little girls around 1907-8 with their upper bodies tilted forward and their derriere sticking out? Dorothy takes up this pose frequently in the illustrations to DOTWIZ, and to the best of my recollection she doesn't do it in any of the other books. OK, there's something for people to chew on. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:47:56 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Bear: Expert testimony has it that while southern states are near-perfect in the spring, they are hot, muggy and humid in the summer. Therefore, I will return to my core belief: In the beginning, God created Tucson, Phoenix, San Diego and Los Angeles. Eventually, he created the rest of the stuff. :-) In one of these four cities (or metro areas) shall I reside until the end of time. Dave: I'll second that. Most URL sites do begin with www, but every once in a while, one will sneak in there that's not. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:49:51 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Bob: At the Ozmopolitan Convention, the band at the bar knew that we were from the International Wizard of Oz Club, so they performed "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" for us. The url did not include "www" at the beginning, so here it is again: http://venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid=1153 It is still very much a work in progress, and probbaly will not be very impressive. You also have to give firefly some personal info and create an alias. In addtiton to those I listed, I know Polychrome is also in use. I must warn that it is possible to jump to pages that contain potentially offensive material, often X-rated, but that's because firefly has a free-speech policy, and other can put on anything that they want. It is not a location that is screened. The public library has a block to keep kids out of certain places, but they aren't kept out of this site. Anthony: I didn't see any Jitterbugs in the home movie footage. This was not the footage as it was to be shown in the films (that's probably locked up in some vault no one can find), and it was my understanding that animated jitterbugs were to be added later. I do not know if this was completed for the uncut 112-minute preview. Gordon: Bert Lahr played Estragon on Broadway. Around the time of the Shirley special in 1960, he played Nick Bottom. Disney releasd _The Brave Little Toaster_ on tape. It was a Hyperion Production, produced by Peter Locke and Thomas L. Wilhite. Willard Carroll and Donald Kushner were the executive producers. Willard bought Michelle's Banner Elk Oz plate at the auction last year for over $1400, apparently involved in a bidding war with someone he did not like. The Fellini reference is in the song "Worthless." The only Fellini film I saw was _8 1/2_. Dr. Bingham (dbingham@indyunix.iupui.edu) said that post-maodernism is based on the recognition that there are no stories which are truly new, and thus acknowledging and developing those ideas that already exist. It is the acknowledgement and acceptance of this that creates post-modern. It has been an unadmitted condition for the past thousand years. Only one of Shakespeare's stories, _The Tempest_, is original, though, of course, all of his plays are quite original in their usage of language and poetry and the like, but all were based on true stories or myths, except the aforementioned _The Tempest_, his last work. David: Michelle said she was offer $200 privately for the plate, which she thought was the most it would go for anyway, so she ended up consigneing it to the club for $200 at Robin's request. She put it in the auction because she and her sister were both given a plate by their parents, and eventually she had both of them. She only wanted to auction one of them, but she said Willard keeps writing her to ask if she's changed her mind. Maybe he'll try offering her a part in _The Runestone II_ or something. Kieran: I'm the author of the centenniel Oz book, if all goes well. (;-)) Actually, it is not known yet who the author is, because it has not been decided. Hopefully the author will at least have approval of the illustrations. I would not want someone to contradict the text the way John R. Neill did, even if their art were as good or better. As far as my comment that _The Oz Toy-Book_ was ugly, look at Nick and the Wizard on the _Bugle_ cover in (I think) 1983. I saw a copy of BoW's _The Royal Book of Oz_ yesterday, and it is across between one of their facsimile editions and their Sea Fairies reprints. It matches the latter in shape and cover, though it does have a dust jacket, which is altered to give appropriate credit to Thompson. On the other hand, it does have all the color plates and the introduction, something those of us who were only familiar with the Del Rey edition had never seen before. It is also plastered with disclaimers. Patrick: It's not my fault I didn't know what the color plates from _Glinda_ looked like: they've never been reprinted, and with a salary of $70-$80 a week I can't be much of a collector. I wonder if I was ripped off for my $100 Donahue reprint of _Mo_. The inscription said 1918, but I bet it was made earlier because it had all the color plates. Great Ike Morgan story! Check out these urls (no www mark, Bob): us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Baum,+L.%20Frank Hutchins,+Scott Stillman,+William Hollister,+C.%20Warren Coolidge,+Martha Scarfone,+Jay Fricke,+John Carroll,+Willard Mantele,+Ozma%20Baum Bradbury,+Ray Rushdie,+Salman Ryman,+Geoff Vidal,+Gore Remus,+Romola You can look up anyone else invloved in film this way; I listed those you might not expect would be included (well, Martha Coolidge would have to be). When I plug in the credits for the new docs, more people will be credited, of course. There will now be a filmography for Fred M. Meyer, Herm Bieber, and more. It was nice meeting so many of you at the convention! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wednesday 11-Jun-97 15:03:58 From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Well, here's another two-day Digest...I've been trying to get the Digest out every day, but with all my computer problems it's been hard...(Sending/receiving mail through Delphi's text-based shell is *very* slow and cumbersome...) I called the repair place and asked them when I can expect my computer and they said it would be another *two weeks*! When I asked them why it would take so long they said, "You ungrateful creature! Think yourself lucky that I'm giving you audience in two weeks instead of *twenty years* from now!" (Or words to that effect.) :) SOME RANDOM COMMENTS: Robin wrote: >Are you coming to Winkies? I want to do nothing more than go to a full-scale Oz Convention, but financially, there is utterly no way I could... :( :( :( It seems to me that asking a trivia question about the _Wizard of Oz_ *play* (Imogene) to an audience that is going to be familiar with just the *movie* is as unfair as asking Jane Goodall to explain the Theory of Relativity. Speaking of the movie, did anyone catch either showing on TCM yesterday of the Making of the Wizard of Oz (sandwiched between which were about 18 hours of Judy Garland movies -- none of them _Wizard_)? Most of it was nothing new to me, but I hadn't realized that in Margaret Hamilton's accident she had come so close to losing her life! (And that it wouldn't have happened at all if they had just went with the first "take" they filmed, which is perfectly fine!) I thought it was appropriate for Angela Lansbury to narrate it, since I see her playing Locasta in the movie version of my book! :) :) :) Scott Cummings wrote: >Yikes...don't these stories [Oz Populist Parable] EVER die out? Apparently not, since I still get asked periodically about the infamous "Hanging Man"... And also if it's true -- perhaps someone can set me straight if it's *not* true since I have not seen it yet and I'm here just going by what I hear tell -- that in _The Lost World_ they advance the "Racial Old Age" theory for the dinosaurs' extinction -- A theory that was discredited and discarded by the time of Ozma's accession, but still periodically rears its ugly head... I'm glad to see there are more requests for Ozzy Digest tee-shirts ( I had a feeling Barbara's saying, "Why haven't there been more tee-shirt requests?" would do it. :) ) For those who want to see the design for the shirt ( *my* design, BTW! :) ), it's on my web site at: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Ozzy_logo.gif David Hulan wrote: >Since Dave didn't answer your question himself - the Tin Woodman logo >was designed by former (and we hope future, when she's less busy) Digest >member Gili bar-Hillel... Thanks for responding to this when I forgot to, but as you can see from her post today, SHE'S BACK! (Welcome back, Gili!) :) >There are artists who are probably better overall... *Better* than Melody??? Surely you jest! :) :) > ...but none who are likely to create illustrations that feel as >much like "real" Oz. I agree with you there! ON THE OZ TOY BOOK: I wouldn't say the drawings for the _Oz Toy Book_ are "ugly", but I was very disappointed by their quality ( and outraged by the omission altogeher of Jellia! :) )...Which is why most of my Oz paper doll collection are of my own artwork... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 12-14, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:49:51 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Bob: At the Ozmopolitan Convention, the band at the bar knew that we were from the International Wizard of Oz Club, so they performed "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" for us. The url did not include "www" at the beginning, so here it is again: http://venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid=1153 It is still very much a work in progress, and probbaly will not be very impressive. You also have to give firefly some personal info and create an alias. In addtiton to those I listed, I know Polychrome is also in use. I must warn that it is possible to jump to pages that contain potentially offensive material, often X-rated, but that's because firefly has a free-speech policy, and other can put on anything that they want. It is not a location that is screened. The public library has a block to keep kids out of certain places, but they aren't kept out of this site. Anthony: I didn't see any Jitterbugs in the home movie footage. This was not the footage as it was to be shown in the films (that's probably locked up in some vault no one can find), and it was my understanding that animated jitterbugs were to be added later. I do not know if this was completed for the uncut 112-minute preview. Gordon: Bert Lahr played Estragon on Broadway. Around the time of the Shirley special in 1960, he played Nick Bottom. Disney releasd _The Brave Little Toaster_ on tape. It was a Hyperion Production, produced by Peter Locke and Thomas L. Wilhite. Willard Carroll and Donald Kushner were the executive producers. Willard bought Michelle's Banner Elk Oz plate at the auction last year for over $1400, apparently involved in a bidding war with someone he did not like. The Fellini reference is in the song "Worthless." The only Fellini film I saw was _8 1/2_. Dr. Bingham (dbingham@indyunix.iupui.edu) said that post-maodernism is based on the recognition that there are no stories which are truly new, and thus acknowledging and developing those ideas that already exist. It is the acknowledgement and acceptance of this that creates post-modern. It has been an unadmitted condition for the past thousand years. Only one of Shakespeare's stories, _The Tempest_, is original, though, of course, all of his plays are quite original in their usage of language and poetry and the like, but all were based on true stories or myths, except the aforementioned _The Tempest_, his last work. David: Michelle said she was offer $200 privately for the plate, which she thought was the most it would go for anyway, so she ended up consigneing it to the club for $200 at Robin's request. She put it in the auction because she and her sister were both given a plate by their parents, and eventually she had both of them. She only wanted to auction one of them, but she said Willard keeps writing her to ask if she's changed her mind. Maybe he'll try offering her a part in _The Runestone II_ or something. Kieran: I'm the author of the centenniel Oz book, if all goes well. (;-)) Actually, it is not known yet who the author is, because it has not been decided. Hopefully the author will at least have approval of the illustrations. I would not want someone to contradict the text the way John R. Neill did, even if their art were as good or better. As far as my comment that _The Oz Toy-Book_ was ugly, look at Nick and the Wizard on the _Bugle_ cover in (I think) 1983. I saw a copy of BoW's _The Royal Book of Oz_ yesterday, and it is across between one of their facsimile editions and their Sea Fairies reprints. It matches the latter in shape and cover, though it does have a dust jacket, which is altered to give appropriate credit to Thompson. On the other hand, it does have all the color plates and the introduction, something those of us who were only familiar with the Del Rey edition had never seen before. It is also plastered with disclaimers. Patrick: It's not my fault I didn't know what the color plates from _Glinda_ looked like: they've never been reprinted, and with a salary of $70-$80 a week I can't be much of a collector. I wonder if I was ripped off for my $100 Donahue reprint of _Mo_. The inscription said 1918, but I bet it was made earlier because it had all the color plates. Great Ike Morgan story! Check out these urls (no www mark, Bob): us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Baum,+L.%20Frank Hutchins,+Scott Stillman,+William Hollister,+C.%20Warren Coolidge,+Martha Scarfone,+Jay Fricke,+John Carroll,+Willard Mantele,+Ozma%20Baum Bradbury,+Ray Rushdie,+Salman Ryman,+Geoff Vidal,+Gore Remus,+Romola You can look up anyone else invloved in film this way; I listed those you might not expect would be included (well, Martha Coolidge would have to be). When I plug in the credits for the new docs, more people will be credited, of course. There will now be a filmography for Fred M. Meyer, Herm Bieber, and more. It was nice meeting so many of you at the convention! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:45:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 Scott: You write:>>Disney releasd _The Brave Little Toaster_ on tape. It was a Hyperion Production, produced by Peter Locke and Thomas L. Wilhite. Willard Carroll and Donald Kushner were the executive producers. Tom Wilhite is Willard Carroll's partner. >>Willard bought Michelle's Banner Elk Oz plate at the >>auction last year for over $1400, apparently involved in a bidding war >>with someone he did not like. You are repeating gossip...inaccurate gossip, at that. Willard really wanted the plate:he's a completist and is fortunate enough to have the funding to afford going after something he wants. Sheesh! Don't you have anything nice to say about anybody? Willard is a fine fellow. Stop implying petty behavior to a person regarding an incident you know nothing about other than hearsay. As for my having anything at all to do with that plate, you're wrong. If Michelle asked me anything about it last year (which is unlikely, since I did not work last year's OzCon auction) I may well have referred her to Patrick. If so, that's all I did. >>David: Michelle said she was offer $200 privately for the plate, which she >>thought was the most it would go for anyway, so she ended up consigneing >>it to the club for $200 at Robin's request. Absolutely not. I never "requested" such a thing and never was involved in the plate fiasco. Bear: I'm starting to sound like you with Eric! Oh dear. Gili: Yay! You're back with us! My e-mail now has white letters on a black background (don't know why...I did somethin' or other to it and can't make it go back) and your cat logo looks fanTAStic on it. Martha Coolidge's latest film opens on July 2. I think it's called "Out to Sea." Lemmon and Matthau flic...perfectly predictable, according to Martha, but cute. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:49:02 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Zixi - "Come on Gordon, give us a kiss." :) Robin - Thanks for the good wishes. I did try chicken soup. It turns out I am having "an allergy attack." I finally gave up and saw a doctor yesterday. There is a story going around that a lot of people are having similar attacks and asthma as a result of the new additive that the gov has forced us to put in the gas. I think it may have more to do with my not running for two months while my foot heals up. I have been running for five years and did not have an allergy event in all that time. Sigh. Gili - Good to have you back. Conventioneers - Thanks for filling in the geographically challenged. "I know this is the Oz Digest etc., but..." Being "sick" does have one or two advantages, for example lots of reading time. I just ran into a great new S&S novel by Garth Nix, titled "Sabriel," while taking an Oz break. It is described on the jacket as a "YA," however, it is plenty adult for me and filled with new thoughts, ideas and action. It is a really impressive first book for this Australian. I will hope for more. The DJ by the Dillons doesn't hurt the book either. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:23:33 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Craig: Thanks for the tip, though I already knew the truth about Pink Floyd being the name of a group. In a related issue, I made that mistake once about Lynyrd Skynyrd. I once asked "Isn't he dead?" :-) Scott: Nay, my friend, these stories NEVER die out, since the research is "out there". Even if it is contradicted later, the original stuff still exists For example, that story about tse-tse flies being able to fly at speeds in excess of 300mph resurfaces from time to time, even though it has been proven false many times. Kiex: The reason that some of us believe that our world and the Oz world (including the Nonestic Ocean) are different is due in part to the apparant fact that Earth and Oz operate under different physical laws as well as the fact that their atmosphere (and outer space) seems to be much different from ours. Also, there are at least THREE sizeable continents in fairyland, yet they do not seem to impinge on our world. The world of Oz does seem to have a special relationship with our world. Perhaps they are mirror images of each other, parallel earths. David: Interesting. If the big 2000 bash is in Indiana, I'll be able to add six more states to my list, if I take a "creative" route back home. Right now, my total stands at either 26 or 29. Research continues... DotWiz: This was the first "modular" book of the FF. That is, a story that contained many sub-stories. It is true that earlier FF books had some of the same elements (such as the Dainty China Country), but this was the first story that was totally constructed out of smaller elements. Tyler: Please, Mr. Gates, can you help me install Windows NT Workstation? Bill: Bring me the laptop of Lou Gerstner! Now go. Tyler: But he's the head of IBM! He might not like that... Bill: I SAID GO!!!! Tyler: AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Hang in there Dave! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest This may be a bit late since I got distracted by a project. A couple of last comments regarding points of question in OZMA. On Ruggedo-Roquat. My take on this is that Ruggedo was his personal name, Roquat his reign name. The king of the Nomes that Sant Claus knew was also a Roquat, I suspect that this was a dynastic identifier. When Ruggedo was deposed and cast out, he was no longer the Roquat. Ozma, who knew so little of Nome history and culture that she did not even understand the scope of the Nomes' realms confused the two. On Ruggedo and eggs. Eggs are deadly to Nomes. Period. That the Scarecrow smacked him with a couple and did Rug no harm is elementary, when they hit him, he was still wearing the magic belt. Protecting its wearer is what the belt does. This has been established. Even when it is "drained" and can do no other magic, it protects its wearer. Getting a couple of fresh eggs in his face quite understandably threw him into a panic because eggs are deadly to Nomes. Period. That this was enough to distract him while Dot got the belt off of him is also understandable. Eggs are deadly to Nomes. That the egg in the face did him no harm after the belt was removed, is probably because THOSE eggs had already been rendered harmless. If the Scarecrow had had another egg to throw there might have been one dead Nome. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:42:17 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 Robin: Thanks for your thanks. I goofed on a couple of things, but I should do better as Registrar next year, now that I've had a chance to work the kinks out. (And having my correct phone number and ZIP code in the flyer next year will help!) Can't blame you for taking offense at Scott's comment. Actually, it was so typographically mangled that I wasn't even sure what he meant, but if it was what you interpreted then you're justified in being angry about it. Gili: Welcome back! It seems as if all I had to do was hope for your return, and here you are! I'd have done it sooner if I'd known that was all it would take. :-) Steve: I'm opposed to externally-applied censorship, but a degree of self-censorship on something like the Ozzy Digest - to limit the amount of material with no conceivable connection to Oz - is desirable. (And grousing at people who don't practice such self-censorship is also legitimate.) Would an unfinished MS be "judgable"? Obviously only the authors can control what happens to the non-winning MSS, but unless the author wants to self-publish (with all the associated distribution problems), some other entity will have to be available to handle publication, whether it be the IWOC, Buckethead, BoW, or someone who's never published a new Oz book. I was pointing up the problem of getting a new, full-length Oz book published in the next decade or so, which becomes more of an issue now that there are apparently quite a few candidates of high quality that are not going to be published. >Actually there is more than quality that determined which books were the >most likely to be selected. Some were very good but did not make the >top list because they were too specialized for the general audience that >the contest required. I'm wondering what "too specialized" means in this context. If it means that the book should be a good introduction to Oz for someone who's only seen the movie, or maybe read WIZARD, then I don't think that was clear from the rules. I know I wrote my MS on the assumption that this book is unlikely to be bought by anyone who hasn't read at least a few of the Baum books, so that it's not necessary, for instance, to explain who Ozma is, or Jack Pumpkinhead, or the Patchwork Girl. Any more than most of the FF did. I guess I'll find out when I learn whether my MS made the cut or not; if it didn't, I'll certainly want to know why not. (And "it just wasn't good enough" would be a perfectly acceptable answer. Or I can think of several other possible reasons - but some I think should have been explicit in the rules if they were going to be judging criteria.) Ruth: Thanks for the ordering information on Michael Riley's book. I should have gotten it from him at the convention, but I was pretty busy and didn't think to. I'll send off an order to the UK press tomorrow. Tyler: I've only been in Tucson once, and that was in the spring and it was quite pleasant. But I've been in Phoenix several times, and given the choice I'd prefer Chicago or Nashville to that oven. It's not even all that dry any more (though I think it used to be), and daytime temperatures in three digits for much of the summer and early fall isn't any fun even when the humidity _is_ low. And then in the evening it gets down into the mid-80s. Probably if you grow up with it it doesn't seem too bad, but to compare its climate with San Diego (which probably does have the best climate in North America, unless you like it cooler, in which case Santa Barbara or Santa Cruz might be better) just doesn't wash. Dave: Sorry to hear that you won't be able to make it to Winkie. Full-scale Oz conventions are fairly expensive, though in general no more so than other conventions, like SF conventions - except that for the latter, it's more practical to put three or four or more people in a room and save money that way. And attendees can eat cheap junk food off-site instead of paying banquet prices for every meal. There's a sort of Catch-22 involved - in order to get meeting space, the convention has to guarantee a certain number of rooms and meals to the facility. If they let people attend freely without taking rooms and meals, there might not be enough to make the guarantee, since Oz conventions are pretty small. On the other hand, with the cost as high as it is, a lot of people who otherwise might attend are shut out by the cost. (I know I didn't attend an Oz convention between 1970 and 1993 mostly because of the cost, and I was relatively prosperous through most of that time. If I'd known what I was missing I'd have spent the money; it wasn't that I couldn't afford it so much as that it was a good bit of money to spend on an unknown quantity.) The fact that I was probably somewhere around the median age of the attendees at this Ozmopolitan - and that's been true of most of the Winkies I've been to as well - is, I think, more a reflection of the difficulty younger people have with coming up with the money to attend than of a lack of interest in Oz among those too young to remember when new FF books came out every year. I do not, unfortunately, have any solution to the problem. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:11:00 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Thoughts on _Dorothy and the Wizard_: Everyone seems to agree that this is one of Baum's least appealing Oz books: it's dark, gloomy, morbid, badly plotted, etc. etc. etc. But one thing struck me about Richard Tuerk's article in the Winter 1996 _Bugle_. While he dutifully catalogued all the disagreeable features of the book, the editor's note at the beginning of the article indicated that this was in fact one of Tuerk's favorite Oz books when he was a child. My own experience is similar: I enjoyed it thoroughly when I was first reading the Oz books (age 8 or so). Perhaps we should start with a more positive point of view: what is *good* about this book? Why does it apparently appeal to children (beginning with Baum's own contemporary readers, who continued unabatingly to clamor for more Oz books after _Dorothy and the Wizard_), even if adults find it inferior? A while back we were discussing the location of Hugson's Ranch in California, and David surmised that it was probably near Salinas rather than northward in the Sacramento Valley. I'd like to back that up. If Dorothy caught a train from San Francisco, she couldn't be heading up into the Sacramento Valley. If you're going in that direction, you still have to cross the Bay, though no longer on a ferry, and catch a train from Oakland. It seems to me, though, that the ranch is probably farther south in the Central Valley, around Fresno or possibly even Bakersfield, since Dorothy has crackers in her bag from "luncheon" on the train, and the train doesn't get to Hugson's Siding until five in the morning. Even allowing for a very slow ride because of the earthquakes, a trip this long would no doubt take Dorothy more than a couple of hundred miles. Notes on the printing of the book: Does anyone know why the running title inside the book, at the top of the pages, is "Little Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz"? Was this perhaps the original idea for the title? And another question: the word "Ozite" on p. 224 (p. 222 of the BoW edition) has an asterisk following it. Was there supposed to be a footnote there? I wonder if it has occurred to anyone else that the entire book, from beginning to end, is dominated by the motifs of eating and being eaten. Of the four principal phases of the underground journey, only the Gargoyle episode doesn't involve the threat of being eaten. The Mangaboo Princess plans to throw Dorothy, Zeb, and the Wizard to the Twisting Vines, where they will be "devoured" to make the plants grow bigger; the red bears of Voe attack and eat anyone they meet; the hungry Dragonettes would readily devour the travelers if they weren't tethered to the walls of the cave. By the same token, the theme of Eureka's desire to eat the piglets runs through the whole book, and there is a more or less steady discussion of what the travelers are eating, beginning with their landing in the vegetable (!) kingdom, fashioning a fishing hook to get food for Eureka, eating fruits and crackers in the Mangaboo land, eating a sumptious lunch in Voe, and eating (or not eating) dama fruit in Voe. They face death by starvation in the cave just below the surface of the earth. Even in the concluding episode in Oz there is an odd emphasis on eating, not only in the trial of Eureka and the usual mention of fat babies in connection with the Hungry Tiger, but also in the rather long description of the palace servants' attempts to find the right food for Jim. Hungry protagonists and hungry enemies: I'm not sure what to make of all this, but it most assuredly is a unifying theme, and it also ties in with other motifs of deprivation (the lack of sound in the Gargoyle land, the lack of visibility in the Valley of Voe, the lack of emotion in the Mangaboo country). Dorothy's green stripe: the Mangaboo suns create a green streak through the center of her face where the blue and yellow lights come together (p. 25). Just three years before the publication of _Dorothy and the Wizard_, Henri Matisse had produced a sensation in the art world by exhibiting "Green Stripe (Portrait of Mme Matisse", which depicts his wife with a green stripe running down the center of her face. I'm not saying that this parallel is anything but a historical coincidence, but it is certainly an *interesting* coincidence. On p. 218, the Imperial Cornet Band of Oz (stop for a minute to think what a band composed solely of cornets would sound like!) marches out playing the National air, followed by standard bearers with the Royal flag, which is described as being "divided into four quarters, one being colored sky-blue, another pink, a third lavender and a fourth white. In the center was a large emerald-green star. . .The colors represented the four countires of Oz, and the green star the Emerald City." Any ideas about why the colors have become washed out to the point that the Winkie yellow is white? There is internal evidence that Baum may have been aware of (and was prepared to defend) the belated use of the Magic Belt to rescue the travelers, but I'll write about that later. David: If you're going to insist, in defiance of Baum's own statements, that Zixi's beauty is *not* a deception, then it seems to me that you are going to have to build your case on more substantial evidence than her ability to eat solid food at state banquets. :) Still, I'm prepared to accept the idea that Zixi's magic actually does transform her physically (and not merely in the eye of the beholder) while the mirror reveals her essential age. Your aversion, and Tyler's, to the conception of Zixi as a withered hag may be partly a gender thing; I'd be interested in knowing what the women members of the Digest think about this. Gili: Welcome back! We've missed you. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:29:08 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-10/11-97 Gili! Good to have you back on the Digest! (And that goes for your cat, too. :) Thanks to you Ozmapolitan conventioneers who reported on the event. Sounds like everyone enjoyed. How is Fred getting along? Nobody mentioned how he is doing. I have purchased books from both Robin and Herm several times, and have paid very reasonable prices. I was always well satisfied with the quality of the books. Both Robin and Herm are honest, truthful folks to deal with. Any fellow Digesters wishing to fill in gaps in their collections would be wise to contact Robin and Herm. (The preceeding was NOT a paid commercial message.) Bear: Hope you're feeling better. Were you ill the entire trip, or just near the end? Dave: Re: your computer repair. Like that TV commercial of a few years ago, "It'll be ready any day now,..any day". ;-) Dick ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:09:56 -0500 From: The International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Wizard of Oz Wallpaper and/or Border Cc: "Dave Hardenbrook (E-mail)" I've not seen anything like this. It would be a great idea, though! = I'm mailing a copy of your question to the Ozzy Digest discussion group = in case anyone has run into such an item. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: Cabkap@aol.com [SMTP:Cabkap@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, June 01, 1997 12:29 PM Subject: Wizard of Oz Wallpaper and/or Border I am looking to decorate a room in my house like the Wizard of Oz as I am an avid collector of the Wizard of OZ items. I have not been able to locate any wallpaper or border anywhere. Could you please help me with this? Please e-mail me at Cabkap@aol.com with your relply. Thank you in advance for your help. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:38:33 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Scott: >It doesn't seem like it was mentioned much what little effect the eggs had on Roquat when Scarecrow beaned him with them. Could it be psychological, or would my mystery character's mandatory egg breakfasts be lesws effective than she thinks...< The Nome horror of eggs could be A) A baseless Nome superstition like the Real World's walking under ladders or having a black cat cross one's path Or B) Baum did say in one book that touching or being touched by an egg can make a Nome as subject to old age and death as any mortal. If the second is true, such a change would only become obvious with time as the affected Nome grew older while his fellow Nomes did not. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: ZMaund@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 David Hulan writes: <> Oz Club auctions at one point began at 11:00 AM, adjourned at noon, started again at 1:30 PM, and could run three or more hours after that. When I took over as auction coordinator in 1996, the first thing that everyone said was "the auctions go on too long." This year, the Ozmopolitan auction ran one hour and forty-five minutes. Dave, you might not have any interest in the auctions, but Robin Olderman and all the workers at the auction do deserve a smidge of credit for shortening and tightening the auction pace while maximizing the potential benefit to the Club. Scott writes: << Patrick: It's not my fault I didn't know what the color plates from _Glinda_ looked like:.. I wonder if I was ripped off for my $100 Donahue reprint of _Mo_.>> Scott: To be honest, I'm not sure what either of these two comments mean. I teased everybody (forty or fifty people) in the auction audience when I told them they were all dumbells if they didn't recognize the book the plate was from, but I don't think your comment reflects this. Likewise, my records don't indicate your buying a copy of _Mo_ at the auction, but I could be wrong. But regardless, the prices at auction were almost all quite low. And unless an item was mis-represented, which to my knowledge none were, it's hard to see how anybody can be "ripped off" at an auction. Even when some people perhaps overpay for an item (I remember a Banner Elk plate...) their bid may well be a vehicle for a contribution to our little non-profit educational organization. Patrick Maund ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 15:49:34 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest A sort of postscript comment on "Dorothy and the Wizard" -- It's interesting to note that it's one of the many examples of influence of sf on Oz. I haven't read the various early examples of journeys-to-the-center-of-the-earth myself, but looked up what J.O. Bailey had to say on that motif in his landmark study of early sf, "Pilgrims through Space and Time." He traces that motif back to the 18th century, but there was a big boost to the popularity of the theme early in the 19th century, when John Symmes came up with his crackpot, but appealing, theory that the Earth was hollow inside, with openings at the poles, and sailing into the inside through the polar openings would be possible. Even when journey stories did not draw directly on Symmes (for instance, Verne's "Journey to the Center of the Earth" portrays a large cavity in the Earth, rather than an entirely hollow inside, and does not assume polar access to the cavity), they drew on the popularity that Symmes had given to the notion of journeying inside the world. Some of the stories that Bailey discusses make use of details that show up in the "Dorothy/Wizard" interior-of-the-Earth, including the artificial sunlight in many colors, and the near-weightlessness that makes it possible to walk on the air. (It doesn't match up very well with the physics of the situation, and works better in a world below Oz than in the early sf stories Baum was following, probably.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 03:07:34 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 Re: Leonard Swann Oz video This sounds interesting. I assume it's a Baum biography. Is it along the lines of Biography on A&E? How can we order? Re: Married men living longer than single men: I'm not so sure. Sometimes I think being married has taken at least 20 years off my life. Or maybe being married with 2 stepkids (now teenagers) plus 2 additional kids just makes it seem longer (like David said)... Re: Oz Observer & Gazette: Are these out? I've heard rumors that some people may have received copies weeks ago... Re: Steve [Teller] and Justin Schiller (who founded the IWOC and was at >> Ozmopolitan), on the other hand, _do_ look a lot alike. No way! Justin Schiller is only 13 years old! Re: Dealer discount for books I was at a book fair a few weeks ago and saw a 1st edition of _Santa Claus_ that would really fill a gap in my collection, however the price of $150.00 seemed a little high, considering the condition. I asked if this was a "firm" price and the seller said they give a 40% discount to dealers. I answered "well....not officially....but I do buy and sell now and then...." I guess she felt sorry for me because she gave me the discount. Is there an "official" way to do this? Print some business cards, perhaps? Re: Robin's "My blood pressure is up too high already, thanks to Scott's carelessly callous comment...." Maybe, in the case of digest members who share the same name, we should use first names and last initials. I'd hate to take the credit (or blame) for something I had nothing to do with. Then again, at work I usually take the blame, and nobody there shares my name! Re: Ruth's "Sorry, but the Greene boys got in just a few decades ahead of you" Judging by what they sold at auction several years ago, that's certainly an understatement!! Re: David's Convention Report: Great report! I trust Fred Meyer was there and enjoying better health? Anyone care to comment about the auction? Re: Tyler's "In the beginning, God created Tucson, Phoenix, San Diego and Los Angeles. Eventually, he created the rest of the stuff. :-) In one of these four cities (or metro areas) shall I reside until the end of time." I can't argue with that, except maybe the Tucson, Phoenix and Los Angeles part... Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:36:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 I am going to try a third time to reply to the entire Digest of yesterday BEFORE I resort to responding a little bit at a time. (No offense to those of you who do; I just don't prefer to.) GOOD NEWS: I have regained dexterity of the fingers during typing almost equal to that which I had before the Night of the Flying Slicer . . . (flying in terms of speed, that is. Had I been trying to catch it, I'd likely have a stump now where a hand used to be!) Having a Cow: Whoever supplied the name of Dorothy's cow has a right to say "Imogeneous!" Thanks, Gili and others, for taking my side of the family type dispute. I'd despaired of finding someone who agreed with me. (Although I might very well change my mind once I find that special someone who's hopefully out there for me somewhere . . .) Re Roquat: Of course Baum had to come up with a way Nomes were vulnerable! Think of all the little children egging him on! (The yolk was on Roquat now!) Seriously, the "traumatic experience" of nearly dying was possibly what led Roquat to change his name to Ruggedo--since his life now had a more "rugged" aspect to it. On DOTWIZ: Does anyone think Ozma really intended to follow through on her threat to kill Eureka? I don't, although maybe the fact that I am fond of cats has something to do with that. Tyler: As someone who has lived in MI, OH, NJ, TX, and GA, let me tell you that contrary to popular belief, the South is NOT the best place to live, mildest climate or anything. Although I'd personally choose the Midwest or Northeast, I've visited relatives in New Mexico and not found it disagreeable there. Re Bert Lahr: Where, oh where, has Estragon? He left a Vladimir five minutes ago . . . Re Centennial Book: This question has probably been asked (or at least answered) already, but is there any way we could sort of post the winning entry in installments, here on the Digest? Just an idea. --jeremy and KIEX, partners in incoherency ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 03:39:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Robin Olderman suggests to someone named Barb to get a "transfer design" rather than screening. I assume this is for tee shirts or caps. I'll tell you this. I work in a print shop, and we transfer designs onto fabric and cloth all the time. It lasts a month. Screening lasts years. You get your money's worth! Bye! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 12:21:04 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Robin Olderman: Actually, Imogene was a one-person rather than a two-person cow -- played initially by Fred Stone's brother Ed. Hank Woodward played the similar role of Hank the Mule in the "Tik-Tok" stage-play and the similar roles in Baum's Oz movies. I think you kind of over-reacted to Scott Hutchins' comment that he thought you bought the over-priced "Yew" and would sell it at a still higher price. If he didn't know that your price would include a dealer's discount, then it would be reasonable for him to assume that you would have to mark it up in price at least a little if you bought it to re-sell -- and it's not all that unreasonable to think you might buy even an over-priced copy, if, say, you didn't have a copy on hand and knew someone who was eager to get hold of one quickly. I don't think he meant to be accusing you of price-gouging. Scott Olson: I don't know for sure if Neill designed the "Tik-Tok" endpapers. I assumed he did, not having evidence that anyone else did, but I suppose it's quite possible that it was someone anonymous at Reilly & Britton who worked up Baum's rough draft or verbal description. Tyler Jones: No, no, Baum explained about San Diego (in a short-short reprinted in the "Bugle" some years back) -- the fairies of Burzee stopped by and created it. David Hulan: Another oddity of deciding which countries are part of Nonestica is that the "Tik-Tok" map, besides leaving out Yew, left out Mo. "Patchwork Girl" had already established that Mo must be somewhere near Oz, and Baum was going to make that explicit in "Scarecrow," so it seems surprising that it didn't get onto the map. You'll probably get general agreement on seeing problems in the ending of "Dorothy and the Wizard." Even Cal Dobbins, who wrote an article, "Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz Revisited" ("Bugle," Spring 1983), on its good qualities, didn't like the ending. I think Baum plotted himself into a hole (literally, too), as it would have been an anticlimax to get the characters all the way up that mountain and out onto the surface and then still have to get them across the Desert and to the Emerald City. Of course, he could have had the mountain surface at the Emerald City, but that would have established a road to Oz too easy of acess (well, easier than most). And it would be hard to plot the surface leg of the journey so that it would seem like a continuation of the rise in the action, rather than an anticlimax (rather like the trip -- after getting all the way back to the Emerald City -- to Glinda's to finish up in "Wizard"). So he got them all the way up the mountain, but not to the surface. I'd make a guess that the business of having Zeb and Jim and Eureka in their different ways unhappy in Oz society was also partly at attempt to find an interesting action to occur in the Emerald City, so that the closing section would also not seem like an anticlimax, but the device doesn't work very well, particularly as regards Eureka. I kind of wish he'd closed off the theme of Eureka's desire to eat the piglets by having her go see Ozma privately to explain that she'd tried to eat one but failed. She could then have said that she enjoyed being able to talk and wanted to stay in Oz, but would agree to obey the "house rules," as Greg Gick referred to it in his article on Ozma's governance in the recent Oz Research Organization mailing, and would not hunt her fellow-citians. And possibly then her later pinkness could have been explained as a sort of mild punishment that Ozma imposed on her, by way of reminding her how she came to Oz and her guest-status.) Besides disliking much of the plot, I very much dislike Neill's artwork in this one book. (In the other books, I like his work very much.) The drawings in this one are too busy in many instances, the the drawings of the Wizard are so exaggerated that he looks as if he is wearing clown makeup or has been drinking too much. Like you, I think the poses of Dorothy bent at an angle look peculiar. You may be right in guessing that the odd slant was a fashion that year, but I don't know. My niece Harriet Sogin, however, liked the book a good deal when I read it to her a few years ago, especially for the Mangaboo Princess. She had been noticing that many books use few female characters and put those few into subordinate roles, so was enchanted to discover that Tip was really Ozma, and went on taking note of women rulers that show up in the Oz books. She was disappointed that there was no picture of the Mangaboo Princess in the b&w copy I was reading to her out of. Fortunately, just about then Books of Wonder brought out its edition, with the color plates, so I bought her one of those, and she enjoyed the color plate of Dorothy and the Wizard picking the Princess. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 22:51:07 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 Michael O. Riley's book, "Oz and Beyond": This must be the book that a local used bookseller told me he has an advance copy of. Unfortunately, now he can't find it and says he may have sold it. :( I'll just keep hoping he calls me. Gili and David: Thanks for the advice on Tedrow's book. I was 99% sure I wasn't going to buy it anyway -- there are enough *good* books out there to keep me busy searching. Munchkin Convention: I seem to have misplaced my registration materials. When is the deadline to sign up? Ozzy Digest T-shirt: yes! -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 01:51:52 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 Robin: Alas, my situation is very similar to Dave's--I would have loved to attend, but that was financially unfeasible this year. Not to mention that business at my workplace is booming lately--meaning I have a lot of work to do. Oh, yes, and so far I have 3 illos for you. (A great, big dog named Comfort just about *has* to be a sheepdog, right? That's what he is in the illo. A Newfoundland might have fit the bill, too.) Hope to add one or two more and get them off to you this week. Ruth & David: Glad you enjoyed the written tour of Beech Mountain's Land of Oz attraction--even though we can't take the tour for real anymore. :-( However, there *is* (or there was 3 years ago) an Oz-themed gift shop in Blowing Rock, not too far from Banner Elk. Coincidence? Dave & David: Thanks for the kudos on my artwork. I'm not sure which one of you mentioned Trina Schart Hyman, but she's one of my favorite artists, too! Loved the work she did for Cricket magazine. (In fact, I think "Cricket" once published one of the "Little Wizard Stories," the one about the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman. No, Trina didn't illustrate that one.) Trina has a knack for making even the most awful-looking characters look pleasant--if the awful-looking character is supposed to be a good gal/guy She's illoed "Snow White", "Sleeping Beauty," "Peter Pan," and others. Would love to see a Trina-illustrated "Wizard of Oz." :-) Dave: On Margaret Hamilton's Wiz of Oz accident--in the film it seems the flame goes up a bit too soon after Hamilton sinks into the stage. Was not surprised to learn she was caught in it and badly burned. (Stage Hand: How about a little fire, Witch? ) I understand poor Hamilton had to undergo some careful facial peelings to make sure her green makeup would not be permanent. One fellow told me that a relative of his once met her, and said she was one of the nicest people you could meet in real life. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Jun 97 17:58:00 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Hi everyone! Guess what! I got my PC back today!!! YAY!!! Thanks to everyone who recommended patience to me. :) The bad news is that for some reason Windows 95's "Dial-Up Networking" is refusing to log on to the Network, so for the time being, I'm still forced to mail the Digest from the shell (I'm hoping that will end tomorrow)... On the _Red Dwarf_ mailing list there is a lot of discussions about, and attempts to resolve, plot consistancies as with Oz, and one member of the list, Daniel Aubrey White, made a comment about fan's quests for plot consistancy and "realism" (and the desire to write original stories) that I think can be related to our Ozzy Discussions as well... Dan wrote: >[The reason plot inconsistancies exist, and why fans strive >to resolve them] is this: the fans care more than the writers. >The writers, even though they may love their characters, will >never love them as much as the fans do. The writers never pay >as much attention as we do. What we do, in nitpicking, is a labor >of love, while what they do, in writing tv scripts, is for fame >and fortune, no offense. That's why fanfiction exists; so the >fans can make their favorite characters do what they [think they] >should do... I think this applies to our search for continuity in the Oz books as well, although I think in the case of Oz, "writers" refers to Baum and *maybe* the other FF writers -- We modern Oz authors are technically "fanfiction" writers; but since Oz is now in public domain, we are amongst the few "fanfiction" writers who can actually get published! I just thought I'd share that little bit of insight...We here on the Digest show our deep love for Oz every day! -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 15-16, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 20:14:55 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 6/11 Digest, Bob Spark says This is good. Now we will not have to discuss the other strange attitudes of the "Bard of Baltimore." Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:29:16 -0400 From: Frank Freudberg Subject: Oz question Dave, do you know what audiences were expect to believe regarding Dorothy's biological parents (in the context of the original MGM film version of the Wizard of Oz?) How did she wind up with Auntie Em, et cetera? Thanks! Frank Freudberg ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:39:20 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 Hi Digest! Thanks to all for the friendly welcome back. some thoughts on "Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz": I have always been rather fond of this book, myself. The reasons may be in part personal, as it was a copy of this book that launched what is now my collection. I paid $8 for it in a bookstore in San-Francisco when I waaas only nine years old. Though the spine is cracked, many pages are discolored, the label is rubbed, some of the clolor plates are loose and one may even be missing, I am still pleased with the bargain I got... D&W also reminds me of another fantasy book which I have already mentioned here as an Oz imitation, but I'll describe it again. The book is called "The Amazing Land of Wew" by John Kaufer. The plot mixes elements from different Oz books, especially "The Pastchwork Girl" and "Dorothy and the Wizard". There is one episode especially that is like the kingdom of the mangaboos: the hero and his friends reach a land inhabited by tree-people. The monarch, who is very cruel, has just "sprouted", which means his acorn must be replanted so a sucessor can grow. By accident, the visitors cause the ebony acorn to be ground up in a grinder with acorns of other, common trees. The tree people are furious and want to execture them, but the visitors quickly plant the ground-up acorns, which grow instantly into a large bush, on which is growing a beautiful queen who is made of a combination of different types of wood. She ends up joining them in their quest (they are looking for ingredients for a magic potion to release the capitol city from an evil sorcerer) because her subjects refuse to be ruled by a mixed breed. execture should have been execute, sorry |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 07:28:13 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 Talking about DOTWIZ, First, a couple of quotes: > the word "Ozite" on p. 224 (p. 222 of the BoW edition) has an > asterisk following it. and: > On p. 218, the Imperial Cornet Band of Oz I have a Rand McNally paperback edition (these comprise the bulk of my Oz books) which I had always assumed to be an exact copy of the original. My pagination appears to be completely different than yours. My pages 222 and 224 fall after the end of the story. Both are part of a list of all the Oz books by L. Frank Baum. The Imperial Cornet Band of Oz is discussed on my page 185. Do I somehow have an abridged edition? Second, for some reason I have just been re-reading H. Rider Haggard (don't ask me why, I don't know myself. It seemed a good idea at the time). I find myself drawing parallels with DOTWIZ. The protagonists find themselves (willingly or not) in an undiscovered society completely different than the one to which they are accustomed. Disregarding any value judgements, these societies had been perking along fine until the arrival of our heroes. They then proceed to wreak havoc and then leave with said society in shambles. All of this is viewed as good and proper. A similar situation could be found with our recent involvement in Vietnam (Oops, bite my tongue. Politics has reared it's ugly head. Disregard the previous comment.) Possibly I am just in some kind of weird mood. Haggard can do that. Third, (and not on DOTWIZ), > A while back we were discussing the location of Hugson's Ranch in > California, and David surmised that it was probably near Salinas > rather than northward in the Sacramento Valley. I agree. As a resident of Sacramento I can attest to the fact that we are not nearly as subject to earthquakes as the San Francisco Bay Area and the Salinas valley. The San Andreas and its related faults are located 100 or so miles west of us. There is, however, a small town named Hughson near Modesto (about 60 miles south of Sacramento). I had wondered about that. Probably just coincidence. Bob Spark -- "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." Groucho Marx ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 12:55:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 So the Digest is now every-other day? That's okay, Dave; we all have computer problems now and then. Tyler: If we could only bridge the gap between dimensions . . . On Ruggedo: Clever idea, Roquat being the dynasty name of Ruggedo. It makes sense. But does this mean I should be afraid of my cat now? What's good in DotWiz?: I'd say, the action-packedness of its plot (adventure on adventure) make it at least somewhat different from some of the FF . . . Gordon: Are your directions (for train travel) good in modern-day (make that, late 20th century) CA as well as the turn-of the century? Just curious--and it might make a difference. Eating motifs: I've always wondered why I usually feel hungry after reading DotWiz! Mechanical Men and More: This is the time of year to engage in Tik-Tok, after all . . . Re trip to Glinda's (Wiz): Anticlimactic? Yes, that makes sense. So did the movie actually improve on the book in that respect??? I shudder to think so, but perhaps . . . Or perhaps the Hammerheads were just too hard to create onscreen. :-) On Eureka's attempt: Oh, yes--I vastly would have preferred Ruth Berman's scenerio to the elaborate trial one. Of course, as I said in the last posting, I still don't think Ozma really would hafe killed Eureka. Dave: Congratulations on regaining your PC. Hopefullly it'll hook up soon . . . By the way, where are your postscripts? (Quotes and such) I rather liked them. --KIEX and jeremy, partners at last (but with luck, not forever) Kiex: Hey! Jeremy: Sorry--slipped off my keyboard before I knew it was there. Kiex: Another reason to get a new keyboard! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:06:50 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Re; Nomes, eggs and magic protective words. <> I had completely forgotten Baum's "magic word" explanation. Probably accidentally on purpose. The more I reread Baum's Oz books, the more I come to the conclusion that he was the storyteller's equivalent of the film industry's "one-take wonder". When left alone to invent he would come up with wonderful, fresh ideas which worked smoothly in whatever context he was exploring at the time, but if he went back to tie off a loose end, his explanations tended to get more tangled, full of logic holes, unconvincing and generally lame than the original gap was. Obviously, from an Oz-as-literature standpoint, he had simply forgotten about the Magic Belt. Again. DOT/WIZ was another survivor of Ma and her sibs, and in almost as good a condition as LAND. Which should have warned me, not that I was of an age to take warnings of that nature yet. I agree. This book is damned hard to actually LIKE. It's scary, it's unpleasant, Eureka's trial is a blot on Ozma's escutchion and there is the "idiot plot" detail to have to contend with. (Although to be honest, didn't someone comment that at the time of DOT/WIZ Ozma was only looking in on Dorothy on Saturday afternoons?) Unlike LAND, the story never gets tiresome, and the characters are excellent, which is what saves it, IMHO, but even the intermittant comic relief is on the grisly side. Which is probably its worst flaw. With better comic relief, it would make an excellent Indiana Jones story. This is the first book in which we actually get a picture of the Wizard's character. And if he was not quite so good a man as he claimed himself to be, he was a lot more resourceful one. But I agree with whoever it was (David?) that pointed out that this was actually Zeb's book. This is unquestionably the "Boys' Adventure Story" version of the Oz universe, with Dorothy very much along for the ride. I also agree that even though Zeb is drawn to look about twelve or so, in an e-text version, he comes across as easily 14-15, making his return to California much easier to understand. In fact, it was inevetable, Zeb was already too old to really enjoy Oz. I also get the distinct impression that Baum didn't really seem have much admiration for horses. Both Jim and the Sawhorse have a distincly nasty streak to their dispositions, and perhaps intentionally, they appear to have very much the SAME kind of nasty streak. Jim's kicking the Sawhorse in a snit was no more than a dose of the Sawhorse's own medicine, given some of the Sawhorse's own past (and future) behavior. This seems all the more noticable, since during the early part of the book, when the party was all in danger, Jim was a valuable and honorable member of the group. (Hank, who is refered to interchangably as a mule and a donkey, does not seem to share this trait. He has a much less distinct personality overall, but he only kicks someone in defense.) As to the odd stance in which Dorothy is posed throughout the book, it was not necessarily a fashionable stance for little girls but it was the characteristic stance used in drawings of fashionable grown women. The straight-fronted "health corset" which was introduced in 1902 enforced it. And Neil does seem to have very much followed fashion when drawing his characteres. (I think it was Melody who pointed out that Neil's Dorothy looked like a rich relative of Denslow's. She was certainly far too well-dressed for an inpoverished farm child.) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:34:38 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 DOTWIZ-- What was good about it? Well, when I look at it now with my adult eyes, I can see the character studies that I find interesting. Dorothy's character as a stoic adventurer comes clear, as does the Wizard's self-grandiosity (ooh, a new word!) and American imperializism (which you can parrelell to his character in WIZARD) Zeb and Jim remain a counterpoint-- the more "realistic" and horrified responce to all of this strangeness. Eureka is just a perfect cat-- an independant jerk but you gotta love her. DOTWIZ remains a series of character studies, rather than a strict adventure story a la OZMA's "let's go save Ev" As a child, perhaps the appeal is that this story follows along the same lines of Hansel and Gretel-- the wayward travellers attempting to get home. There was a study (I can't remember who wrote about it ugh.) that asked kids which fairy tales they preferred. The overwhelming responce was Hansel and Gretel. However contrived the dues ex machina is, Dorothy nonetheless retains the power to save her party-- the child empowered uses her ability to escape horror. Interesting that the "eating" motif can be parrelleled to HandG as well. . . Food can always play a big part in kids lit for whatever reason. Even WIZARD is preoccupied with it, as is OZMA (especcialy with eggs being the key for Roquat's undoing.) Danny ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:46:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 Book: Peter Glassman says that authors nowadays don't usually get right of approval or choice of illustrator. No book has been chosen yet. Yes, some have been deemed as not following one or more of the rules of the contest. The most difficult one to follow seems to be the one about writing a book in the spirit of Baum's Oz (or however we worded that one). Stephen once put that into words for me and he did it so well that I'm going to ask him to repeat it for the rest of you. It defines the "limits" that that rule sets upon an author. It also explains what he and Barbara and I mean by a manuscript's being too individualistic or specialized. All MSS must have to be complete to be considered eligible. Sad, but true...and a sensible rule, too. But it does make me wonder what we missed from folks who somehow didn't hear about the contest in time. Still, we did what we could to make it public in plenty of time and seem to have been successful, as verified by approx. 200 inquiries about it. Jodel: Your Roquat/Ruggedo makes sense to me. Very satisfying solution. Gordon: Great questions. I wish I knew the answers. Maybe Peter Hanff will know, but he's outta town right now. I checked my 1sr. edit. and, sure enough, there was the mysterious asterisk. I don't recall having ever before noted it, so I checked my childhood copy (from the '50s with the odd redrawn cover...matching the equally odd Russian Mosque cover on the LAND of that vintage). The asterisk in my childhood copy is so heavily inked that it looks more like a blob than an asterisk, and I s'pose that's how I interpreted it as a kid. Maybe Baum was going to add a footnote about the term "Ozite," but was convinced that footnoting a kiddy book was a bad idea. I know that there's a footnote in OZMA --something about even princesses must darn socks--and one in MERRY GO ROUND., but I think that's it for the whole series. Hmm. Theme of deprivation. Another "Hmm." What was going on in Baum's life at that time? Any connection? Eating as a unifier. Fits even the discarded chapter which was to have been "The Garden of Meats." Very grim. Very scary. And this from the man who started the series with the intention of keeping nightmares out of fairyland. He's got almost every nightmare possible in there, other (oddly enough) than one about a witch. (O.K., he has a heartless male magician instead.) Even dragon(ette)s, although I don't think a youngster would be too scared of them, since they're tied by their tails. But Mother was to have returned soon, right? I guess I'll reread the book. Too many gaps in my memory. I'm one who isn't fond of it, but your comments genuinely intrigue me. ...and I love the Matisse connection. I'll bet it's deliberate. Dick: Uh, how much do I owe you for the commercial? Thanks! Ruth:>>it's not all that unreasonable to think you might buy even an over-priced copy, if, say, you didn't have a copy on hand and knew someone who was eager to get hold of one quickly. I disagree. It definitely *is* unreasonable for a dealer to buy an overpriced anything for a customer. Yes, it can happen, but only under very specific conditions. Those conditions didn't apply. The book in question was a so-so reprint of YEW. No reason to buy it unless I wanted to goudge or keep it for myself, and the message we're referring to strongly implied the former while completely ignoring the latter possibility. Dealer discount: One of you mentioned finding a dealer who offered a 40% discount to other dealers. This is almost unheard-of in the used and rare market, although quite common in the currently-in-print market (if the dealer buys enough to warrant the 40%). Standard dealer discounts are usually either 10 or 15% to other antiquarian dealers. A legitimate dealer will ask for at least a tax number before proferring a discount. Most of us ask the buyer to fill out a form stating that the purchase is being made for the purpose of resale; the form requires our tax #, business name, address, signature, etc. Many buyers are caught lying on these forms and pay stiff penalties. (Even so, however, a lot of "dealers" still fake it, figuring it's worth the risk. Very foolish of them, not to mention dishonest!) The form also says that we'll pay the sales tax when we sell the book(s) to a customer. We don't really get out of the tax entirely...we just pass it on to the poor customer! If we paid it upon purchase we would essentially end up paying the tax twice on one item. That's why all merchants charge tax...unless they're selling nontax items or are in a state with no sales tax. Dave: Glad you've got your pc back. I'm just learning which buttons to push on mine! And I just installed AOL yesterday, so I'm really looking forward to reading the answers to your AOL questions. Everyone: I'm sorry for the long post. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 00:13:22 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS ROBIN - Look under TOOLS and under that look at COMMANDS. You may have a reverse white/black command activated. At least you can do this kind of thing with a MAC. I'm not sure what you are driving. The only time I have seen this happen was with a VAX terminal. Don't be shy about taking younger Digesters in hand. That's what teachers are for isn't it? Don't give me all the credit for getting Eric to leave. I think we are poorer without him in spite of his hysteria and terrible habit of copying everyone's posts. He is certainly knowledgeable. Maybe he will wander back some day. The July issue of Esquire has a piece titled "The Lunatics Are On The Web It goes through the "Oz allegory" theory and then covers the "Pink Floyd Connection." For anyone interested it listed some web sites on the subject including: www.xnet.com/"arkiver/synchor.shtml#rainbow and www.chelmsford.com/home/aharm/woodsotm.html I happen to be a big Pink Floyd fan. If you have missed "Dark Side of the Moon" and "Wish You Were Here" they are worth a listen. Everything else is secondary. It is hard to imagine Roger Waters ever had a thought about Oz Someone should just ask him. Dick - Thanks for the good wishes. It got bad my last day of vacation, so didn't interfere with anything except my sleep. I am now mostly mended but surprisingly weak. Plowing the south forty was tough today. :) Now for DotWiz - This was the first Oz book I ever read, at about 7 years of age. This is the second time I have read it. What I remembered from the first reading was the "quest." This was the first book I read that had characters going on an interesting trip. I loved it and this is still a favorite type of literature for me. The second thing was really being taken aback when the characters were transported to Oz by Ozma. I was really disappointed. It seemed like cheating at the time. On this reading I noticed the violence. Jim commits assault and battery on the Sawhorse. His punishment? Implied threat by the "big cats." Eureka only attempts murder and that is apparently all right? Try that in your local hood! The Wizard and the Tin Woodman conspire to conceal her alleged felony! This is kindhearted? Dorothy's feelings are more important than the piglets life? Well, I guess you can tell, I am one of those law and order types. I'm also a cat lover - what a quandry. = Finally, sometime in the fifties my family was invited to a cabin on the slopes of Mt. Hood in Oregon. Nearby us kids found an old run-down cabin which served as a post office at one time. In it I found a turn of the century "Munsey" magazine, still in reasonable shape. (Of course I still have it.) Many of the models in the magazine looked like Dorothy. Above the waist vertical and flat-chested and below the waist puffed out behind (probably with a bustle). I think Neill was just reflecting the current fashion. Ladies????? Do any of our older members remember the expression "VOE!" Answer later. Cryptically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 14:43:18 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 > From: JOdel@aol.com > > Eggs are deadly to Nomes. Period. Would that it was that simple. In WONDER CITY a couple of Nomes attempting to steal the magic turnsyle were hit in the head with eggs and it merely knocked them out. The records are incomplete and contradictory. > > Steve: > > Would an unfinished MS be "judgable"? > No. > Obviously only the authors can control what happens to the non-winning > MSS, but unless the author wants to self-publish (with all the > associated distribution problems), some other entity will have to be > available to handle publication, whether it be the IWOC, Buckethead, > BoW, or someone who's never published a new Oz book. True, some of the MSS read would be publishable through one of those venues, but it is not the judges' task to find publishers for the worthy non-winners. > > I'm wondering what "too specialized" means in this context. L. Frank Baum wrote 14 Oz books, and 26 others were published by Reilly and Lee between 1920 and 1963. These forth form the basis for a book. There have been over 100 other books published (and even more unpublished) about adventures in Oz. There have been numerous film and theatrical versions of Oz. Many of these would only be known by a limited coterie of specialists (of which I am one). The rules of the contest state: "The new bookmust be based on *L. Frank Baum's concept of Oz*, and must adhere to the *style, audience suitability, and appeal/intentionof the Baum Oz books.*" Emphasis mine. This does not mean that we deny the existance of the later 26 books, but that Baumianism is a chief charateristic of a finalist book. Books that depend on material that is neither in the 40 (and especially the 14) and that could not be considered common knowledge, the things a normal reader could be expected to know, have a strong strike against them. We were not chosing a book for ourselves, but one for a wide audience, but it most be true to Baum. It is well known that the 1939 film has eclipsed the books in general popular imagination, but LFB is the standard. We want the book the club publishes to be one that LFB would feel is true to the spirit (and most of the letter) of his land. (As for your book, David, since I do not know which it is I can say nothing, but GLASS CAT would not be eliminated from consideration. > Full-scale Oz conventions are fairly expensive, though in general no more so than > other conventions, like SF conventions - except that for the latter, > it's more practical to put three or four or more people in a room and > save money that way. And attendees can eat cheap junk food off-site > instead of paying banquet prices for every meal. Generally speaking, the Winkie Conference gives the most bang for the buck. (But Ozmopolitan has the most traditions, and Munchkin has the best food.) > > David Hulan > > From: Richard Randolph > Thanks to you Ozmapolitan conventioneers who reported on the > event. Sounds like everyone enjoyed. How is Fred getting > along? Nobody mentioned how he is doing. > Fred is doing fairly well. He needed a wheelchair to get around (He can use a walker, but the distances were too great.) Because of his lack of mobility he was not as able to take part in convention activities as he has in the past. (He chaired most of the Ozmopolitan Conventions until 1993). He told me yesterday that he really like the room the party was held in after the Saturday night events. At the board meeting he was named chairman of the IWOC publicity and membership committee, so, if you want to do him good, get all your friends to join IWOC. > From: Scott Olsen > > This sounds interesting. I assume it's a Baum biography. Is it along the > lines of Biography on A&E? How can we order? It is not a Baum biography. It does contain biographical information, but it covers the entire Oz phenonomen. It has a lot of material on different versions of Oz, including footage from the 1910 Selig film and the Shirley Temple LAND OF OZ. Personally (I just finished watching it an hour ago) I felt there was too must on Oz dolls. The section on them seemed to go on forever. There are interviews with people like Ozma Baum Mantele, Michael Patrick Hearn, Rachel Cosgrove Payes, and Bill Stillman and Jay Scarfone. Eric Shanower was not mentioned although some of his illustrations were shown, but Charles Santore was not only interviewed but there is s saparate 30 minute video about his illustrating of THE WIZARD. John Fricke was not mentioned although he has done so much. It does use the music that RobRoy MacVeign commisioned for his uncompleted full length faithful animation of WIZARD. We finally have the chance to hear that music. > > Re: Steve [Teller] and Justin Schiller (who founded the IWOC and was at > >> Ozmopolitan), on the other hand, _do_ look a lot alike. > > No way! Justin Schiller is only 13 years old! And are you *sure* that Steller is much older? > KIEX: There is no way to post the centenniel book winner on the digest. It will be the property of IWOC as long as it is in print. Michael Riley's OZ AND BEYOND is current scheduled for publication in August, too late for this years conventions. P.S. at Ozmopolitan he was talking about attending the Winkie Convention if he could manage it. I just learned at Ozmopolitan that he was the Pamiani Press that published several Ozzy items in limited editions in the 1980's. Any final discussion of DOTWIZ should include mention of the series of pictures Rob Roy MacVeigh made for the 1948 (?) recording. The tape of that is one of my treasures, and I had Rob make me a watercolor of Eureka and the Dragonettes. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 15:47:10 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 Robin: I don't know what software you're using for E-mail, but there's probably a "preferences" or "options" menu item that's gotten changed from black-on-white to white-on-black (or "reversed video" or something of the sort). Bear: Since that "new additive" has been in gas for at least three years now, I doubt it's the cause of your current allergy attack. Not if this is the first one in five years. Lack of running is more likely; something else that's changed in your area (like the excessive rain of the past winter making certain plants occur in larger numbers, with corresponding increased pollen effusion) is most likely, I'd think. Tyler: I thought it was Mexican deerflies that were supposed to be able to fly at 300 mph or so. I do remember, when I was but a tad and read OUTDOOR LIFE faithfully, seeing it debunked because the fly in question weighed about as much as a .22 slug, and 300 mph is about the kind of velocity .22 bullets have as well - yet in areas where the fly is common, you don't hear of a lot of people being killed or wounded by the flies. (This is aside from any scientific proof that nothing that size could possibly move that fast under its own power.) You don't know how many states you've been in? I assume this must be due to trips taken when very young and fuzzy memories of parents who didn't really care? Good point, that DOTWIZ was the first Oz book entirely constructed from smaller blocks. This practice became so common in the later books that it's worth remarking that the first three books, with occasional exceptions (the Dainty China Country - and really the whole trip to Glinda - in WIZARD; the Jackdaws' Nest in LAND), had plots where everything in the book was integral to the main story. Of course, many of Baum's non-Oz fantasies used this modular approach well before DOTWIZ; DOT AND TOT, MASTER KEY, SANTA CLAUS, JOHN DOUGH - even ZIXI, to a considerable extent. Joyce: The Gnome King in SANTA CLAUS isn't named, so I'm assuming that you're postulating that his name was also Roquat? Could be, though there's no particular evidence of it, and when Kaliko became king of the Nomes he didn't adopt "Roquat" as his name, as far as we can tell. For that matter Roquat is "Roquat of the Rocks" in OZMA and "Roquat the Red" in EMERALD CITY (or maybe the other way round, but that's how I recall it), but in those cases we know it's the same individual. One thing that's puzzled me about the Magic Belt is that it's supposed to protect its wearer from harm - but it did not, at the end of OZMA, protect the Nome King from having the belt stolen from him. This seems inconsistent with Dorothy's later use of it in LOST PRINCESS and GLINDA. (Something that protects the wearer from harm while it's being worn, but that can easily be removed from its wearer by a hostile person, isn't all that much protection.) Gordon: Good question: why _do_ children seem to like DOTWIZ quite a lot, even though most adults think it's inferior? I can't speak for myself; it wasn't one of my favorites even when I was a kid, though since it was one I borrowed rather than owned I only read it once or maybe twice, and didn't have very distinct memories of it until I acquired my own copy while in my 30s and read it again. Of the books I borrowed but didn't own as a child, the ones I remembered most fondly were OZMA, ROAD, PATCHWORK GIRL, TIK-TOK, ROYAL BOOK, LOST KING, HUNGRY TIGER, YELLOW KNIGHT, PIRATES, and OJO. As an adult rereading all the books I understand why I didn't remember DOTWIZ, COWARDLY LION, GRAMPA, GNOME KING, JACK PUMPKINHEAD, and PURPLE PRINCE very well, but I don't know why SCARECROW and GLINDA made so little impression on me - or, for that matter, why I liked ROAD and TIK-TOK as much as I did, when as an adult I find them rather lacking. (Of the Thompsons, my adult opinions are pretty close to my childhood ones. Note that OJO was the latest Oz book I was able to read as a child by borrowing; the later books I either owned or didn't read for the first time until I was an adult.) But I suppose one reason why kids liked DOTWIZ is that it's an exciting story, with several episodes of serious danger to Dorothy and her companions, and kids generally like that kind of thing. Starting with ROAD, episodes of actual physical danger to the child protagonist of a story seem to drop, by and large, to no more than one or two a book. I think it likely that children remember the exciting incidents and ignore the general lack of intelligence in the plot. I agree that Salinas itself is no doubt too far north for Hugson's ranch; I had missed the mention of Dorothy's "luncheon on the train" when I made my earlier post. That would imply that she had boarded around noon, if not earlier, and the train was due at Hugson's Siding at midnight, though because of the earthquakes it was nearly dawn. Even assuming that it was a milk train (and one that stopped at Hugson's Siding probably would be) that didn't average more than 20-25 mph, you'd expect it to get 250-300 miles from San Francisco in no less than 12 hours. If it were heading down the Central Valley that would put it somewhere between Fresno and Bakersfield; if it were taking the more westerly route then it would be between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles. In either case, though, I think it's pretty conclusive that the quake in question could not possibly have been the 1906 San Francisco quake. Even in Salinas and Monterey that quake didn't do any significant damage, and as far south as Dorothy evidently was it's doubtful she'd even feel it if she were in a moving buggy, though she might if she were standing still on the ground. The green streak in Dorothy's face where the light from the blue and yellow suns comes together is pretty implausible, in that based on the description of them all the suns were visible at the same time. The only way you could get such a green streak would be if something were between the blue sun and the left side of her face, and something between the yellow sun and the right side of her face, but both could illuminate the center. (You might expect this, for instance, if she were looking through a narrow slot in something opaque. But not if she were standing out in the open.) In fact, the human eye adjusts very rapidly to the changes in the color of the illumination source, and nobody would notice anything unusual about colors unless they were in a partial shadow. A cornet band seems plausible enough, as an extension of the classic "drum and bugle corps". Cornets are, after all, basically bugles with valves that allow a wider range of notes to be played. I expect the cornet band included a few drums as well. Dick: Fred is physically still largely confined to his wheelchair, though I understand that in his own home he's able to move around some with the aid of a walker. I didn't spend much time talking to him, but he seemed much as usual in terms of his conversation when I did. The rest that I could say is hearsay and not my place to discuss. Melody: The effect of eggs on nomes is described differently in almost every book where it's mentioned. Someday I should probably compile this, mumble mumble. Unless someone already has? Patrick: Congratulations on getting the length of the auction down, and kudos to Robin and the other workers who have made it possible! Now, though, the thing to do is to take advantage of the more efficient auction to provide more programming to occupy the extra time left over. If the auctions can be reliably planned to last no more than, say, 2 1/2 hours, it should be possible to schedule something from maybe 4:00-5:00 on Saturday for people who are interested in more programming. In practice, it doesn't make much difference whether the auction lasts one hour or four hours if nothing else is on the program between 1:30 and the banquet on Saturday. (Except for giving people more time in the dealer room, but there's usually not enough in there to be worth more than a half hour or so at most.) Ruth: Dorothy & Co's experience in the Land of the Mangaboos doesn't fit much of any kind of physics. Weightlessness, if they were indeed at the center of the earth, would be correct - that is, there's no net gravitational force inside a hollow sphere, if the hollow is concentric with the outside of the sphere. But if there were no net gravitational force it would be like being in free fall in space; you couldn't walk anywhere, or keep your head "up", unless you were holding on to something. Also, clearly they weren't near the center of our earth. The journey of a thousand miles may begin with a single step, but this would have been a climb of over three thousand miles, and it isn't going to happen in a few days. They couldn't have been more than, oh, 40-50 miles down at most, I'd say. Scott O.: I got an OBSERVER/GAZETTE package about a month ago now, I think it was. Certainly quite a while. If you haven't gotten yours you need to contact whoever in the IWOC handles that aspect of things; I'm not sure who that is, though I think it may be Barbara Foster or Bill Beem. >>Re: Steve [Teller] and Justin Schiller (who founded the IWOC and was at >> Ozmopolitan), on the other hand, _do_ look a lot alike. >No way! Justin Schiller is only 13 years old! Umm...Justin Schiller founded the Wizard of Oz Fan Club in 1957 when he was 13; he didn't travel to Oz and stay there. :-) Jeremy: Glad to hear that your manual dexterity is approaching normal again! If Ozma didn't intend to put Eureka to death if she'd been found guilty, why did she cause Dorothy a great deal of distress by saying she would? As someone who has lived in KY, TN, GA, IL, VA, MS, MD, AL, and CA, I agree with you that the South doesn't have the best climate. One of the places that is worse, though, imho, is southern Arizona. If the part of New Mexico where you visited was up around Albuquerque then I agree it has a decent climate - as does the part of Arizona around Flagstaff. If you were down around Las Cruces then your idea of a decent climate doesn't march with mine. Posting the Centennial book winner on the Digest doesn't seem like a good idea. Granted, most of us would buy the book anyhow, so it would be unlikely to cost sales, but wouldn't you rather read the book in one sitting, more or less, with illustrations in place, than getting it in dribs and drabs on-line? Not that it matters, since I'm quite certain the IWOC would never post it here. Ruth: Actually, IIRC Baum had San Diego (or rather, the area where San Diego is located) created by a fairy who had been exiled from Burzee for a time. And the story - "Nelebel's Fairyland" - is in THE RUNAWAY SHADOWS. It seems to me that having the tunnel in the mountain surface near the Emerald City would have been less anticlimactic than the Magic Belt solution Baum resorted to. In fact, all he'd really have had to do was stick to Ozma and Dorothy's original agreement, that Ozma would look for her every Saturday morning, to get around the whole problem. Because the only plausible place they could have stopped was Voe, and the only way they could do that was to eat the dama-fruit and become invisible - in which case Ozma wouldn't have been able to see Dorothy's signal. So they just kept climbing until they got to the surface or Saturday came, whichever was first. I agree that the art in DOTWIZ isn't up to Neill's usual standard. Especially compared to ROAD, which immediately followed and is among his best. Maybe Baum - who was obviously having trouble with the book - delivered the MS late and Neill didn't have as much time as he usually did? Does any information of that sort exist? Craig: I don't think that would be Michael Riley's book that a bookseller tried to sell you an advance copy of. IIRC, Michael said the book hadn't been printed yet. Unless it was maybe a set of bound galleys or something like that. Anyhow, order it from the U. of Kansas Press; it's not so expensive as all that. Dave: *Congratulations* on getting your PC back! Now if you can only get it to access your ISP... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:37:16 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 Gordon Birrell wrote: >Everyone seems to agree that this is one of Baum's least appealing Oz books: >it's dark, gloomy, morbid, badly plotted, etc. etc. etc. ... >Why does it apparently appeal to children >(beginning with Baum's own contemporary readers, who continued unabatingly >to clamor for more Oz books after _Dorothy and the Wizard_), even if adults >find it inferior? Except for the one plot hole, what is _artistically_ bad about any of these things? "Because they don't go in kid's books. They're bad." Thank you, Barney; we will now sing you the anvil song.... I recall C. S. Lewis observing somewhere that he placed only two restrictions on "The Chronicles of Narnia" -- no scenes of romantic love, and chapters of roughly equal length (for bedtime-reading convenience). D&tW was one of my favorites, too. >stop for a minute to think what a >band composed solely of cornets would sound like! Errr.... Like a drum corps (or, as we called them in my youth, a drum and bugle corps)? Nothing odd about a "cornet band" at all, at least at that date. >Any ideas about why the colors >have become washed out to the point that the Winkie yellow is white? Obviously the flag was between Baum's informant and the sun! Ruth Berman wrote: > Some of the stories that Bailey >discusses make use of details that show up in the "Dorothy/Wizard" >interior-of-the-Earth, including the artificial sunlight in many colors, >and the near-weightlessness that makes it possible to walk on the air. (It >doesn't match up very well with the physics of the situation, and works >better in a world below Oz than in the early sf stories Baum was following, >probably.) Not really. The near-weightlessness is quite accurate, although the "walking on air" per se is nonsense. Baum is more nearly correct than Edgar Rice Burroughs (there would be no gravity whatever in Pellucidar). Of course the hollow Earth itself is pretty much nonsense; Cavendish's initial calculation of G pretty well determined the mass of the Earth, so that long before Baum's time, it was known that the Earth _couldn't_ be massively void. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:44:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Koupal, Nancy" Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello, everyone. I have been about two weeks behind everyone else but am now caught up, more or less. I envy everyone who was able to attend the Ozmapolitan. Many thanks to Robin, Ruth, David Hulan, and others who gave reports. Maybe next year . . . . Scott Cummings: Do you remember the author of the book titled _The History of Money_, as well as who published it when? Could the author be Hugh Rockoff? --Nancy T. Koupal ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 22:57:48 -0500 From: Jim Vander Noot Subject: The L. Frank Baum Memorial Award for 1997 To all my Oz friends, near and far: It was with great surprise that I received an answering machine message from Robin Olderman and Jane Albright congratulating me as the recipient of this year's L. Frank Baum Award. That theme wove itself into my dreams that night in such a strange fashion that I had to ask in the morning if I had really received that message or if it had all been a dream. I was reassured that it was indeed true, and I sincerely regret that this was the first Ozmopolitan Convention I've missed in more than a decade. It seems that Oz has always been a part of my life, ever since I first read The Wizard of Oz at age 6. In elementary school I shared that passion with other friends - we read Oz books in the classroom and used them for book reports. Later, Oz was mine alone, until I discovered the Oz Club, my own special family. Before that time, I would have been delighted to visit Oz and meet all the marvelous characters from the books. That would no longer be enough. It wouldn't truly be Oz unless you, and you...and you...were there. YOU are Oz, my friends! It is your love and your passion that give life to that most wonderful fairyland of all, where everyone gives and receives willingly as he is able, and where everyone is valued for his own uniqueness. Many thanks to all of you for this award and for being here, in Oz with me. Jim ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 97 23:07:56 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Thanks to everyone who have mailed me contributions...I can always use more! My address again is: Dave Hardenbrook 9502 Erskine Drive Huntington Beach, CA 92646-6007 To Jeremy -- I'm glad your fingers are doing better now! :) Frank Freudberg wrote: >Dave, do you know what audiences were expect to believe >regarding Dorothy's biological parents (in the context of the original >MGM film version of the Wizard of Oz?) How did she wind up with Auntie >Em, et cetera? The *original* MGM version??!! ( Tyler, was this written by that reviewer of _Wicked_? :) ) Anyway, if anyone can cast any light on this, can they E-mail Frank privately? (He's not a Digest member.) Stephen Teller wrote: >KIEX: There is no way to post the centenniel book winner on the >digest. It will be the property of IWOC as long as it is in print. I don't think that's what Jeremy or Kiex meant...They meant, can you post the author/title of the winning manuscript...And I'll add to that query; can you post the titles of the manuscripts that made it past the first phase and will be considered by the secondary judges? David H. wrote: >One thing that's puzzled me about the Magic Belt is that it's supposed >to protect its wearer from harm - but it did not, at the end of OZMA, >protect the Nome King from having the belt stolen from him. This seems >inconsistent with Dorothy's later use of it in LOST PRINCESS and GLINDA. >(Something that protects the wearer from harm while it's being worn, but >that can easily be removed from its wearer by a hostile person, isn't >all that much protection.) Jellia: The Belt's magic had run down [in accordance with Aaron's et. al theory of the Belt's reserve of magic periodically running out like a battery and it then having to be "recharged"] by the end of _Ozma_... Oddly enough, the Belt's power runs down much faster while it's in the possesion of someone evil... Wogglebug: BTW, in regard to Dorothy's "green streak", I'll add that it wouldn't work anyway, because in *optics*, which is what sunlight would be governed by, yellow and blue don't make green -- they make...white! >Posting the Centennial book winner on the Digest doesn't seem like a >good idea. Granted, most of us would buy the book anyhow, so it would be >unlikely to cost sales, but wouldn't you rather read the book in one >sitting, more or less, with illustrations in place, than getting it in >dribs and drabs on-line? Hmmm...That's *two* people who thought that Jeremy was proposing to post the *text* of the winning book! Did *I* misread his remarks? ...(Checks yesterday's Digest)...Hmmm I guess I did...Yes, I don't know about posting the actual winning entry verbatim, but maybe we could do some brief excerpts just to get people intersted...? However I *would* like to know the indentity of the winner to be announced, and even the current "semi-finalists"... And now, our Ozzy reference for the day: "Advocate and practitioner of romance, she was off to see the Wizard." -- Carl Sagan, in his novel _Contact_, just as Ellie the heroine embarks on her voyage across the Galaxy to encounter extraterrestrial beings. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 17, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 08:38:38 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-97 > Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 19:46:28 -0500 (CDT) > From: Robin Olderman > > No book has been chosen yet. Yes, some have been deemed as not > following one or more of the rules of the contest. The most difficult one > to follow seems to be the one about writing a book in the spirit of > Baum's Oz (or however we worded that one). Stephen once put that into > words for me and he did it so well that I'm going to ask him to repeat it > for the rest of you. It defines the "limits" that that rule sets upon an > author. It also explains what he and Barbara and I mean by a manuscript's > being too individualistic or specialized. This is the paragraph to which Robin refers: > > What you have done is entered into the problems of a "shared world." > This is a very common situation on Science Fiction in recent years. The > most famous example of this is the STAR TREK UNIVERSE. There have been > literally hundreds of books written using the Star Trek Characters (I > think Nikki has all of them--or almost). Another example is Larry > Niven's Man-Kzin Wars. The rules are set out by someone who is a > coordinator. Generally you cannot kill or permanently change the nature > of one of the major characters. In fine you cannot do anything that > would prevent future authors from continuing the series as if your book > were not published. > Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:09:05 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-97 _DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD_ AND DEUS EX MACHINA: my theory about why baum had the adventurers come to a stand-still and have to be rescued by ozma is to establish right off the bat the wizard's subservience to ozma. throughout the previous chapters, the wizard uses humbug magic or other ordinary devices to lead the children and animals out of danger. at last they've reached a point where the wizard fails and only ozma's magic can help them. it's kind of like "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" all over again. plus, the sudden disappearance of dorothy and his own instant teleportation disconcerts diggs and further augments his feelings of inferiority in relation to ozma. he must, after all, be humbled since he has up to this point exhibited a certain amount of braggadacio. MAGIC BELT: >Jellia: The Belt's magic had run down [in accordance with Aaron's et. al > theory of the Belt's reserve of magic periodically running out like a > battery and it then having to be "recharged"] by the end >of _Ozma_... > Oddly enough, the Belt's power runs down much faster while >it's in the > possesion of someone evil... i never bought this hooey about the belt's "running down." i firmly believe the belt is all-powerful, and the only REAL evidence we have of its limitations is in _lost princess_ when baum had to have it out of commission until the end (i felt cheated and indignant about all the inconsistent "close one eye, stand on your head and cluck like billina before making your wish" business). i don't think the belt ever runs out of power, but baum conveniently ignored it frequently, as of course did RPT and others. * * * "Suffering does make us more sensitive until it crushes us completely." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 10:37:51 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-97 Frank Freudberg: >Dave, do you know what audiences were expect to believe >regarding Dorothy's biological parents (in the context of the original >MGM film version of the Wizard of Oz?) How did she wind up with Auntie >Em, et cetera? As far as I know there is no information in the film about Dorothy's parents, and very little in the books. The only known facts in the books are that Dorothy's mother is dead, that Uncle Henry knew her well, and that she was a "dreamer". There is some implication that Dorothy's blood relationship is to Uncle Henry rather than Aunt Em, though it's not conclusive. The books do establish that Dorothy's surname is "Gale"; the books never give a surname for Uncle Henry or Aunt Em, but if you accept the movie version that their surname is "Gale" as well, then either Dorothy's father was Henry's brother or Dorothy was illegitimate. My personal opinion is that Dorothy's mother was Henry's sister, that she became pregnant by a passing stranger who had some immortal blood, and that she died in childbirth and Henry and Em took the infant Dorothy in to raise as their own. Dorothy's affinity for magical adventures is due to her father's genes. But this is by no means a consensus of Oz fans. I have sent Frank the above message as well, but I thought I'd post it to the Digest to see what others might think of my theory. Bob: I don't think the Rand McNally Oz books are abridged, but their type was reset and so the page numbers are inconsistent with R&L editions. That's why I don't try to give page references for Oz books, but just chapter references (which do seem to be consistent from edition to edition). I don't think Modesto is far enough from San Francisco to require the long train journey Dorothy apparently had, so Hughson is probably not relevant. Down around Camarillo or Ventura might be plausible, and that's definitely ranching country where it isn't urban - which it wasn't then. Joyce: At the end of OZMA Dorothy and Ozma agree that Ozma will check Dorothy every Saturday morning, but in DOTWIZ Dorothy says Ozma checks her every day at 4:00 PM. I find this evidence that Dorothy must have made at least one unrecorded visit back to Oz between those two books, at which point she and Ozma changed their arrangement. As I said in my last post, DOTWIZ would actually have made more sense if Baum had left the arrangement in its original form; I don't know why he made the change. Since he didn't specify a day of the week at any time during the book, it would have been easy enough for Dorothy to say something like, "Well, now that we've survived until Saturday morning, I can signal Ozma and get us out of this." I disagree that Zeb was too old to enjoy Oz - _I'm_ not too old to enjoy Oz, should I be fortunate enough to get there! However, Zeb was too prosaic to enjoy Oz, and his age might have been a factor there. Robin: I noticed that missing footnote the first time I ever read DOTWIZ (which was in a fairly early edition, probably ca. 1920), and have noticed it every time since. There are at least a couple of other footnotes I recall from Baum - one in TIK-TOK where he explains the Nome King's change of name, and one in MAGIC where he tells how to pronounce "patio" (which isn't the way it's pronounced today, if it ever was). There may be others. Bear: Eureka's attempted murder wasn't "all right"; she was confined to Dorothy's rooms - in effect, imprisoned - because of it, and chose exile to Kansas in preference to that. And Jim's "assault and battery" on the Sawhorse has to be considered in the context that the Sawhorse doesn't feel pain; if Jim had kicked a flesh-and-blood creature I'm sure his punishment would have been much more severe. Steve: I never intended to imply that the judges - _qua_ judges, at least - should have any connection with what happened to the non-winning MSS. I was posing the question to the Digest as a whole, though possibly it was in the course of a comment to you or Robin; sorry if I didn't make that clear. I would of course be interested in any ideas you or Robin might have on the subject as Digest members, but it's not part of your responsibilities as contest judges. If what you mean by "specialized" is including material from existing non-FF sources, or writing something that Baum wouldn't have recognized as being in the spirit of his Oz, then I think my MS is safe. There are a couple of things about it that are different from any Baum book, but they don't fall into any of the categories that you mention. Would there be any harm in announcing the titles of the books that are still in the running? The only possible objection I can see is that if no announcement is made of anything but the ultimate winner, all the entrants can believe that they might have been considered the second best, whereas if semi-finalists and finalists are announced those who don't make it will know that they weren't considered better than sixth or seventh or eighth best. But that seems like a fairly thin reason to keep everyone in suspense for months. John K.: There's nothing intrinsically bad artistically in a book - even a children's book - being dark, gloomy, and morbid, but it's a kind of writing that I don't think Baum did very well, and it isn't what most of us love in the Oz books. YMMV. Jim: Congratulations on receiving the Baum award - it was richly deserved, and I'm only sorry you weren't there to receive it in person. Dave: I'm sure the title of the winning MS will be posted on the Digest once it's decided, but that's likely to be six months or more from now. Like you, I'd like to know which MSS are still in contention at this point, now that it's been narrowed down to, I believe, six semi-finalists. If the Belt's power had run down at the point where Dorothy took it from Roquat, then why was she able to use it to open doors and turn nomes into eggs a few minutes later? That's a really fast recharge... You're right about yellow and blue light adding to make white, rather than green. I hadn't stopped to think about that. You can't get green by adding two colors of light, because green is an additive primary. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:24:12 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-11-97 Craig: Don't tell me you STILL don't have a copy. I thought everybody had this... (at least of club members) Of course, I got _The Ultimate Oz_ two Christmases ago and still haven't watch more than bits and pieces of the film, although I did watch the entire documentary. I've been wanting to watch it again for a couple of months now, but haven't gotten to it. When I finally did look at pieces I was stunned by the new brilliance of the print, which is, according to Eric Richard, who has all but the earliest two releases, the same as the new clamshell release that was recently touted with the bus tour, which I missed. Steve: Let me guess, my MS was too sprecialized... I was hoping it would not be. Sorry Robin, I didn't mean to offend you. My comment was a jesting one based on your schitck with Patrick at the auction. (You guys are funny!) I didn't mean it... I thought Michelle said you were involved. She said someone paid her the 200 to keep it in the auction. _The Brave Little Toaster_ is unusual in that Locke and Wilhite work together and Carroll and Kushner work together. Since Kushner and Locke formed their owned company, which made such films as _Dorothy Meets Ozma of Oz_ and _The Adventures of Pinocchio_ by Steve Barron. JODel: Not to dissent, but where in _Santa Claus_ does it say the Gnome King [sic] is named Roquat. I also don't remember any time when nomes were actually killed by eggs in any event in the books, but it has been a while Did you guys notice that the Oz National Air is "The Oz-Spangled Banner?" Ironically, "The Star-Spangled Banner" did not become the U.S. national anthem until 1931. Does anyone know who made the Oz flag in the new documentary? Patrick, I was not referring to the auction when discussing my Magcial Monarch of Mo. I got it at Elfinwood Book Shop in Indianapolis. The owner retired and closed up last year. It was probably the nicest bookstore in the state. I just happened to read an article by David Greene about Donohue in an old Bugle I got at the convention. Ruth, you did mean Fred Woodward when you said "Hank Woodward" as Hank, didn't you, or am I mistaken? http://www.giftcert.com/childrens_theatre_co.html shows what appears to be Horners from a production of Patchwork Girl, as I mentioned at the convention, but I'm only guessing. Welcome back to the digest Gili!!!!! I read about some lesbian comic in _The Indianapolis Star_ yesterday. Her name was Nancy Norman, I believe, and she said "I'm Glinda, the good lesbian!" Say it ain't so! Michelle and I discussed a bit of irritation at Eric Shanower giving Tom a male lover, and neither of us have even read _The Shaggy Man of Oz_. I should have brought up Robin Ramsay in Chris Lofven's _Oz_, too. Eric Richard implied when we were discussing our disdain for the gay stereotype surrounding fans of Judy Garland that he had a crush on the dead actress. Of course, we're all still at the age where we are getting over the torments of middle and high school students, I especially so, since I have to work with them, and have been falsely called "faggot," etc. multiple times, so I think we have a bit of an excuse, in case I have offended anyone. If I had detailed this more, I'm certain I would have. Now that I have seen the clip of _The Wonderful Land of Oz_ in the Swann doc. I want to see it more than ever now matter how bad people tell me it is. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:55:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-97 I'd be interested in a T-shirt, if it wer large enough (XXL or larger). The diet comment for unmarried men made things a little easier to swallow. Of course, I try to avoid my father's cooking (my mother doesn't cook) and stick with the low-fat diet I've been on for about a year and a half. In high school I weighed around 285 punds, and briefly peaked at 291. When I first altered my diet I weighed 275, and currentlyu weigh 250, but I certainly have a long way to go. You guys at the convention might also have noticed my teeth are disgustingly yellow. This is because when I was a little kid I swallowed my toothpaste, and they became hyperflouridated, and there is nothing I can do about it, except some cosmetic application that I can't have until I have my jaw fixed, which my parents cannot afford because my idiot father only makes $170 a week as a car dealer even though he has a double-degree in biology and chemistry. He got himself fired in 1981, then let himself get swindled multiple times. I don't hate my father, I'm just ashamed of him, for more reasons than I should put here: there's a big difference. I finally saw Todd Solondz's _Welcome to the Dollhouse_ the other night, which I mentioned in the digest several times after reading about it... Frank: It is interesting that in many translations, including those of Russian, Turkish, and Spanish, Dorothy lives with her parents, or even just "Mom." I think it's that chartreuse Superscope Storyteller tape that says Dorothy lives with her parents. That's the one where the Wizard wants the Witch's ring and has the "Follow the yellow brick road: that is what many are told" song. Kiex: I never especially liked the way MGM had Glinda come up right away in deus ex machina fashion. Unfortunately, both Russian films did this too. The 1994 Russian film (of which some clips are in the new doc.) is one of my favorite Oz adaptations, even despite this, however. I don't see the journey south as anticlimactic. My friend David LeFevere pointed out that the best of modern stories have multiple climaxes. There are several reasons I think this is appropriate. First of all, Baum wrote his witty tale in a naturalistic style, and it seems unlikely that Glinda would come right in the nick of time, particularly when she had not been involved to begin with (unlike the three aforementioned films; actually not, Elli never meets the witch in the 1994 film, she is guided by Totoshka in a manner similar to L.Q. Jones's _A Boy and His Dog_, and only meets Styella at the end) It seems to me that this second part is the true journey, while the first had been a false one The 1982 anime kind of bothches this idea by have the grandmotherly GWN in the beginning and Glinda in the EC, claiming to be GWN's sister, which seems extremely unlikely, just based on appearances. In _Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum_, Dorotea apparently knows as soon as the balloon takes off how to get back, but I don't understand Spanish well enough to understand how she learned it, because we never see Hada Glinda after she sends Dorotea down the road. After that bit of digression... The first journey was one of finding what they had, while the second journey was about learning what they had, and putting it to good use. The China Country sequence was both a diversion and a distraction to their journey, as well as teaching the travelers about caring. In the Turkish film, this is a party zone. The China people are children's sizes and move very stiffly, but participate in square dances and the like. I've always found it interesting that Baum made the fighting trees a bit of a trap: the text never describes them as having faces, let alone voices, so here they had to learn to overcome a challenge that does not readily present itself. Fellow digesters have already explained the importance of the forest slaying, though the Hammerheads are a stickier issue. They are interesting in an artistic sense by Baum wanting to incorporate the idea of a jack-in-the-box into his fantasy characters. When I encounter something interesting in real life, I often (and did) find interesting ways to incorporate it into my stories and novels (not all Oz). The Hammerheads are a sort of obstacle pushing back their journey, literally. I think of Charles Santore's descriptions of the left-to-right movement, which represents, in Western cultures, progress, because that is the direction we read. Willard Carroll has his own explanation of the Hammerhead's defense in _The Nome Prince and the Magic Belt_, but film versions are especially apocryphal and should be taken with quite a few grains of salt. After the Wizard leaves, Dorothy is essentially at square one, as are the others, really, for simple awareness is not the same as the mastery that the Scarecrow in particular would later have. Thus the second journey is the completion. The Wizard and the Witch are the central portions of the story, but, despite being the titular charachter, it is really not the Wizard's story, Dorothy's story must continue, and so it does. I never really thought of any feminist angle to the first story, although it had been mentioned, until it was discussed by Michael Patrick Hearn and Charles Santore. It was clear in later books, but I never really saw it here, and now I can. I never thought it was very important that Dorothy was a girl and not a boy, because she is and "everyman" character whom, by defintion, everyone can identify with. Robin: I don't remember a footnote in Ozma, but there is one in Tik-Tok explaining Roquat's name change. Steve: So you're saying my little inside references that would pass over the heads of many readers are untrue to the spirit of Baum's Oz? None of the inside references impede any understanding of the story as a whole, I don't think even the one you pointed out to me is significant enough to really hinder comprehension. I don't think the violent scene is any worse than DOTWIZ, although I still need to reread that book for our discussion. Remember, ALice in Wonderland is full of references todayy;s audiences don't get, but we still enjoy the story. In my next book there is a scene where Tip and Dorothy watch _Toto's Rescue_, and he makes fun of the Dorothy on the screen for being stupid, and sort of identifies it with the real Dorothy, totally in jest. She knows he is only joking, but it hurts anyway. I think some of you can relate to that based on my digest comments. Surely such manuscripts might be good enough that they could be revised, because I doubt if the winner would go to publication for the centenniel without further revision, anyway. One more thing: would the exclusion of Nick Chopper, other than several mentions, and the minimal appearance of the Lion and cameo of the Scarecrow, have any impact on the decision? Does anyone know who made the Oz flag that appears in the dcoumentary, so I won't be the only person with an "uncredited" credit in the imdb? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:44:38 +0100 From: "L. Beltz/M. Krueger" Subject: Ozzy Digest Subject: ozzy digest Gordon Birrell and Bob Spark and Robin Olderman: "Dorothy and the Wizard" was the only Reilly & Britton (or Lee) Oz book that varied significantly in pagination between editions. That was partly because they counted the color plates in the first edition as being pages, and then had to re-paginate when they dropped them. Bob's edition is probably full-length, not abridged, in spite of being shorter. Robin is probably right in saying that the asterisk on "Ozite" was meant to refer to a footnote that was dropped at the last minute. Baum did put a couple of footnotes into later Oz books. There's one in "Glinda" defining "patio" (probably less common outside California then than now), and I don't remember for sure if the information (in "Rinkitink?") defining "nome" as "one who knows" was worked into the text or presented as a footnote. Gordon: Interesting comments on the motif of eating and being eaten. // The pastel flag should probably be considered an experiment (by Baum in effective flag descriptions; by Ozma early in her reign in designing or re-designing a national flag). Pastels really cannot work very well on flags -- bright colors and strong contrasts are needed to show up on something meant to be viewed at a distance. So it's not surprising that the experiment was later revised. (It's still a bit difficult as a flag design -- the yellow contrasts nicely on the one side, but the central green and the borders with purple, blue, red are probably a bit difficult to distinguish when the flag is flown. Still, if the green portion is a sparkly "emerald" green, say, and the blue a pastel blue, the design is probably distinguishable enough.) Gili Bar-Hillel: "The Amazing Land of Wew" does sound like an Oz clone. When did it come out, do you know? A curious "Dorothy and the Wizard" imitation is Grace Duffie Boylan's "Yama-Yama Land," which came out the year after "Dorothy and the Wizard" (from Reilly & Britton), and features a little San Francisco girl, who gets caught in the earthquake and follows the opened crack down into the lands inside the hollow Earth. (Although when I say "the" earthquake, I am funding on whether it is, say, 1906 or not. Perhaps it's the same as Dorothy's earthquake, regardless of what year it is?) Some of the other characters make their way there by boat through the Polar opening, so this one is more Symmesian than Baum was. Some of the territories of lost objects (lost dolls, lost pins) sound a bit like "Dot and Tot in Merryland." It's an enjoyable story, with nice artwork. David Hulan: Yes, weightlessness in a hollow Earth with the hollow symmetrically centered on the Earth's center is correct enough. But some of the early hollow-Earth books Bailey describes were like "Dorothy and the Wizard" in assuming a kind of near-weightlessness, with people of lighter weight able to go "higher," and the effect falling off as one went further "up" from the surface -- and that's a situation more plausible with magic in an Oz book than when presented as "scientifically" likely. Melody Grandy and Joyce Odell and David Hulan : Jay Delkin summarized the various versions of what eggs do to nomes in his "Bugle" article of many years back, "The Trouble with Eggs," but he didn't go through systematically and list all the different versions. If the three of you (or some subset thereof) could do a more detailed article on the subject (maybe to distribute through the Oz Research Group instead of or in addition to through the Digest, depending on length), that would probably be a Good Thing. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:57:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-97 Re copies of DotWiz: Bob Spark tells us pages numbered 222 and 224 would come after the last page in his copy. Mine is a Watermill Classic obtained through a book order service in elementary school; it has only174 pages--no intro, no pictures. It's good for reading but has little else to say for itself. (With luck mine isn't abridged either!) Also to Bob: Why rereading H. Rider Haggard? Because a rider of Jim during these adventures would come out haggard indeed! Re your most recent signature quote--now that's funny! --- Earthquakes: They're not my fault! --- Footnotes? I do have a friend who plays piano with his feet . . . Seriously, wasn't there one (a footnote, I mean) about Roquat becoming Ruggedo somewhere in the series? --- And on to Oz? I agree, the magic transport via Ozma's wish does cheat the reader out of a more complex and well-thought out plot. But then again, Baum did about reach the length of the average Oz book with no end in sight . . . which hardly excuses it! Still, there are admirable things about the book, as many have pointed out, and I always liked it just as much as the others. --- Steve: Yay! I am so happy to have finally found another who believes Baum's books are the original and the best--I make no pretensions that mine will ever, can ever, reach that peak of Ozzishness. **I don't know if it came across, but I am utterly serious in what I just said. I believe it to be the truth, no question about it.** --- Shirley Temple Dorothy: I had not known about the LAND OF OZ film version Steve spoke of. I'd think she'd have made a better Dorothy than Judy Garland--someone who has seen it, am I right? --- No Centennial Digest-ion? Too bad--of course, we still have the BoCF's and the entire series to Digest . . . --- Somewhat instrumental to the plot...: As a cornet and trumpet player, I can give informed knowledge to the effect that cornets are basically the same as trumpets, just with more coiled tubing so they seem smaller. The tubing in cornets becomes gradually wider from mouthpiece to bell, giving them a mellower sound, while in trumpets the tubing remains the same diameter until it gets abruptly wider at the bell. [The bell is the wide part at the end of the horn, where the notes come out.] Trumpets are generally used for marches whereas cornets are used for softer, melodic pieces. I always found my cornet easier to play, because it takes less air for me to get a higher note [but that may just be me]. --- Ozma: Cat-hater or Not? Okay, good point; she did cause Dorothy a lot of pain at the idea of putting Eureka to death--pain which was probably not unfounded. I would say Ozma was still getting used to ruling Oz and didn't always know how justice is administered properly. --- The part of NM that I visited was Santa Fe, and I loved the mountains there! --- Jim (Vandernoot, not the horse): Many thanks for a heart-warming posting. I agree with you entirely. --- Dave: 'Fraid Steve had it right. I meant, can you post the text of the winning book in installments, right here, on the electronic pages of the Digest. Oh, well. I didn't really expect we could have that privilege. --- Good Old Run-Down Magic Belt: Of course it runs down faster in the possession of someone evil! That's the only self-protection device it has! --- Sagan Says: I like that quote, Dave! --Jeremy and KIEX, partners in ... well, partners at least :-) Kiex: I'll teach you to partner me, young man! Jeremy: But I can't dance . . . ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:27:37 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 Gordon: >Any ideas about why the colors have become washed out to the point that the Winkie yellow is white?< It's been out in the sun too much. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:29:17 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-14-97 Tyler Jones: >The world of Oz does seem to have a special relationship with our world. Perhaps they are mirror images of each other, parallel earths.< In "Barnstormer in Oz" (which I disliked) Farmer uses a "split-level continuum" theory to explain the relationship. In his book, Oz & earth are in two parallel dimensions, but they share the same sun & outer space. Am not saying this is true for "our" Oz. David & Ruth: On Dorothy's strange pose---Top leaning forward with bottom pushed back--I remember one time seeing an illo of a grown Victorian woman in exactly this pose, accompanied by copy that said women's corsets of the time pushed them into this fashionable pose, which was known as "the dyspepsia front." Ruth: I agree with you on Neilll's pics of the Wiz--yecccch. I like his simple style in "Land" better than the busier style he uses in later Oz books. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:28:27 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz David: I was under the impression that the MS contest was asking for books based on the "spirit of Baum". While I did not enter the contest, I interpreted this to mean that events in the Baum 14 were "common knowledge". Therefore, one could write based on those 14 with little or no explanation. David again: True, we do get up there in the summer. For the real back door of the furnace, you ought to visit cities on the banks of the Colorado River. During the "summer of hell" in 1989, Parker, Arizona recorded a high of 128. Ouch. Gordon: Ok, I'll try. Probably the one thing that appeals to most people about _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_ is the return of the Wizard. While not a saint in the first book, he was an important fixture in early Oz, and his return closed a very important loop. The Zixi thing: While it may be true that some males don't want Zixi to be old and ugly, I doubt that is the real reason some of us believe her beauty is only illusion. Throughout the book, she does things that an older, more frail person simply could not do. Kiex: While we may never know if Ozma really intended to kill Eureka or not, she was certainly acting quite seriously, even to the point of having a formal jury trial. David Hulan wrote about this once, and IIRC, he concluded that Ozma was not likely to put Dorothy through such needless torment if she never intended to put the kitten to death. Dave: That note about resolving inconsistancies was wonderful. I truly believe, as does the author of that comment, that it is precisely because we love the people and places of Oz that we nitpick so much and try to resolve as much as we can. Kiex: It's my opinion that the producers wanted to end the movie in the Emerald City, and that another trip, from a video standpoint, would have been anticlimatic, much more so than on the written page. For the record, I enjoyed that last part of the adventure in the book, but I realize that it would not have worked on film. Eggs: SO far, the evidence seems to be that if a Nome is hit with an egg, then his (BTW, have seen any female Nomes?) immortality is gone and they begin to age "normally", which may still give them a lifespan of several hundred years. David: The mystery has been cleared up, as other relatives have been called in to testify. Officially, I have been to 28 states. I thought I went through West Virginia, but no such luck. Still, I am over halfway there. David again: While it's true that being able to take the Belt ultimately does not afford protection in the long run, the fact is that the actual act of removing the Belt does no direct harm to the wearer. This may be a case of the original maker(s) of the Belt not thinking things through. They only made the belt protect the wearer. They did not think to have the belt protect itself. Note: For my essay on the "true" history of the magic belt, see my web page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tnj/ Something similar can be found in the first XANTH book. Bink's talent may protect him from harm, but he can still be greatly inconvenienced and humiliated. Tunnel: Clearly, the ending would have been better if the crew in _Dot&Wiz_ could have gotten out of the tunnel and found themselves in Oz. Hollows: While our own Earth cannot be hollow (our density is 5.5, much more than water and surface elements, therefore the center must be even more dense than that), the world of Oz probably could be, with different rules for gravity. BTW, this is another reason to believe that the world of Oz is not physically the same as our own. Jim: Congrats on the award. All of us at the Ozzy digest are glad for you and, of course, for Oz itself. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:36:56 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-16-97 The first Dotwiz I ever saw was one a friend showed us at her house--and she thought the story really wierd because it wasn't "Wizard." The first Dotwiz I bought and read was the Rand McNally whitecover paperback edition. I found the story as dark and morbid as many of you did. Baum seems to knock "lookism" in Dotwiz--the Mangaboos are gorgeous, but heartless and cruel. The people of Voe cannot be seen, and therefore cannot be judged by their looks, but they are very hospitable and concerned about the travelers' safety. The Gargoyles are stereotypical ugly and mean. (Chris Dulabone tried to correct this "Braided Man of Oz" a book that features a good Gargoyle.) The Mangaboos, don't seem to be completely emotionless. The Mangaboo Prince states that they become angry when rocks fall and break their glass buildings. Later, when the Mangaboos drive out the strangers, Baum says that Eureka's claws ruined so many vegetable complexions that the Mangaboos *feared* her as much as the flyilng heels of Jim. So the Mangaboos, at least at that time, could feel anger, fear, and probably hate as well. As Zim observes in SBM1, they seem to feel only negative emotions. It's their veggy faces that don't express any feeling at all. Beauty is apparently very important to them--they are angered when falling rocks spoil their fine buildings and the Mangaboo prince would rather destroy Dorothy & Company than let them "ruin our pretty melon vines and berry bushes" by eating them. *****Plot spoilers for SBM1**** There's another reason featured in SBM1--when Tip eats veggies, it really grosses out his Mangaboo companions. To vegetable folk it's like watching somebody eat live mice, lizards,canaries, etc. Tip also saves himself from being killed right away by the Mangaboos by using the importance they place on beauty. "DotWiz" does seem like an Idiot Plot--especially since Baum or Dorothy forgot that Ozma is supposed to look in on them every Saturday, not every day. I agree with David--Baum *could" have strengthened Dotwiz and saved it from Idiot Plotting with only a modicum of tinkering--by having Dorothy say, "Ozma agreed to look in on me every Saturday at 4:00, but it's Monday!" Zeb: And the Mangaboos are after us! Wizard: We must find a way to stay alive until next Saturday...! David: Clever of you to point out that while Voe was relatively safe as long as Dorothy & Company chose to be invisible, Ozma would not see Dorothy's hand signal. Of course, on the other hand: Ozma: Why, I asked for Dorothy and the Magic Picture showed Nothing! Dorothy must be in trouble. I had better consult Glinda! Or try to transport Dorothy here. Maybe Dorothy's just invisible.... Or: Ozma: The Picture just showed me a meadow. Oh, no! What if--if Dorothy's b--buried there? What if she's---de-e-ead! Boo-hoo-hoo-----! JOdel: Indeed Baum may not have admired horses very much. Phyllis Karr once made a very good point--that the horseless Emerald City would be paradise to someone who had to put up with the smell and mess of horse droppings in the streets of Baum's era. Indeed, I tend to prefer cars as transportation despite their problems--yes people get disabled by car wrecks but people were disabled by horses, too, when they were used for transportation. People have been disabled and killed by horse kicks, being thrown from them, falling off of them, etc. Give me untemperamental transportation any day! :-) The Sawhorse's future behavior: he kicks the poor Woozy in "Patchwork Girl." Different animals have different personalities. Hank was probably a more mild-mannered mule than most--mules have been known to kick, too! Jeremy: Glad you're getting more handy. The worst hand accident I ever saw took off the entire *back* of the person's fingers, rendering them pretty nonfunctional-- the patient could close, not open, them. I wonder what the doctor did, or *could* do, for *that* one. Argh. Dave: You're right--different colors of *light* blended together do add up to white--if you add enough of 'em. I didn't think much of the "Eureka on Trial" sequence, either. If more children love DotWiz than adults, it's probably for the reasons that you folks mentioned. A.) It's the sort of exciting action-adventure kids do love. B.) It's episodic--able to hold short attention spans.I've loved certain shows or stories as kids--then come back to them as a grownup and wondered what I ever saw in them. Example: kids love (or loved?) the excitement of Power Rangers, but adults think the show silly--because adults can see the shallow characters, outrageous plots, unscientific science, the dumb dialogue, obvious pandering to power fantasies, etc. The ideal is for a writer to appeal to children without insulting the intelligence of grownups. Even if, as someone says, nobody ever got poor underestimating the intelligence of the public, still-- if the intelligent ones think something is dumb, think they're *all* going to refrain from telling everyone else? (Eh, David? Elbow, elbow. :-) :-) ) One guy named Henry Morgan did in a show in the '60's called"Daktari" for my grandfather. Once he heard Henry make fun of "Daktari" in a talk show, my grandfather in turn spoiled it for me by making fun of it and mocking it whenever it was on. "Til the show became so dumb even young, naive me could see it. The writers of "Daktari" made the animals act too much like people--which would have been okay if "Daktari" had been set in Oz instead of the Real World. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:36:04 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest To: DaveH47@delphi.com The following is an Ozzy Service Announcement. I found this sale item on the rec.arts.books.marketplace newsgroup. I can vouch for neither the seller nor the book as I know nothing beyond what was posted to the newsgroup... < Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 22:39:00 -0500 Message-ID: <33A606D4.2003@suba.com> I am selling a First Edition, First State copy of L. Frank Baum's "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" (1913) in its original Dust Jacket. The book's major flaw is a water stain to the lower margin of most of the pages (including the jacket). Otherwise, the book has no other flaws to speak of. The jacket has numerous chips at the extremities (especially at the lower spine which continues to the back panel). The jacket's back panel has separated from the jacket spine. First edition Baum Oz books in their dust jackets are extremely rare. Asking $1500. E-mail if interested.>> That's all folks, Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:27:43 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy ELS's To: Dave Hardenbrook Just a random bit of silliness. Given the fervor in some circles over the "Torah codes" (and in other circles over the "Yeshua codes"), I decided to do some searches for equidistant letter sequences in "The Wizard of Oz" (Proj. Gutenberg edition*. I take no responsibility for textual accuracy). The letters "MIKE" appear in order, at equal intervals lots of times in the text, 14 times (forward or backward) at a distance of less than thirty. The shortest skip is in the sentence /"Can't you give me brains?" asked the Scarecrow/, where, starting at the m of "me", and counting forward every 5th letter, you get "Mike". Why it should be in this particular sentence about brains, I have no comment. The second-shortest interval occurs when Dorothy gives the cap to Glinda, saying /...when you have it you can command the winged monkeys three times./ Here, start with the second 'm' of command, and count forward every eighth letter. I checked, and 'pyrzqxgl' does not appear at all in the text of the first book, at any distance. If anybody out there would like me to check for given sequences, let me know. It's a very quick search (usually less than a minute). This letter should not be construed to be in any way related to the Torah codes study by Rips, et al. which was not random noodling, but controlled statistical experiments. In particular, context of the plaintext is of no consequence in the study. (* BTW, Gutenberg now has about 19 Baum books, including MAGIC and ROAD, as well as non-Ozzy YEW, SANTA CLAUS, and MAGIC KEY) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 97 22:32:15 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things AT LAST! I got my normal Internet system up and running! YAY!!! :) David Hulan wrote: >If the Belt's power had run down at the point where Dorothy took it from >Roquat, then why was she able to use it to open doors and turn nomes >into eggs a few minutes later? That's a really fast recharge... I speculate that the Belt actually still had power left in it that Dorothy later utilized, but while still in his possesion, Ruggedo's evilness created a "drag factor" that shut down the Belt for him prematurely... Atticus wrote: >i never bought this hooey about the belt's "running down." i firmly >believe the belt is all-powerful... But if the Belt is "All-Powerful" and can solve *any* problem, then there's "no story", or if Ozma waits until the last page of the book to *finally* use it to save everyone, it not only makes for a boring and predictable ending, but we also are faced with the impression that our queen is phenominally absent-minded to not have saved them before...( But maybe I should let Tyler answer this, since he always puts it more eloquently than I can... :) ) Scott wrote: >I read about some lesbian comic in _The Indianapolis Star_ yesterday. >Her name was Nancy Norman, I believe, and she said "I'm Glinda, the good >lesbian!" Say it ain't so! Well, since March Laumer said that *Ozma* is a-- (Jellia stuffs a large hankerchif in Dave's mouth) Glinda: I guess being straight isn't Politically Correct... Dorothy: Nor is having a loving family... Ozma: Nor is being a woman who doesn't think men are *ALL* bums! (I'm not willing to hate 1/2 of my kingdom's population!) Jinjur: Your QUEENdom's population! Jellia: But at least Ozma, Glinda and Jinjur have assertive, powerful jobs that Gloria Steinhem would *want* them to have -- Whereas *my* job Gidget would have given up to go hang ten! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 18, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:29:36 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Content-disposition: inline Dave - If you are taking votes, I really like the bigger-every-other-day Digests. David - This is a perfect example of the dichotomy between conservatives and liberals. It seems as though the liberal usually relates to the criminal while the conservative relates to the victim. Did Jim know the Sawhorse didn't feel pain, when he kicked him, hmmmmmm? And, some might not consider exile to Kansas punishment. :) Well, I watched "His Majesty The Scarecrow." I'm glad LFB spent most of his energy on books. Yes, I know those were the early years of movies. sahutchi - Oh no............. Melody - Lawyer: Your Honor, my client the Sawhorse is not responsible for kicking the Woozy. In his youth he was kicked by a horse and that behavior was imprinted (literally) on him. He's really a victim too. :) Scott Carmody sure has illusions of grandeur about his "no other flaws" copy of PGOO. $1500, give me a break. Craig, let us know when you see it marked down. Mike - Do you work for NSA? Cryptically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:45:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Reactions of Nomes to Eggs in Oz 1) Perhaps different accounts of what happens to a nome who is hit by an egg exist because different things happen to different nomes. Different nomes may be sufficiently different so that some may have an allergic reaction, some may get sick, some may die, and some may just get mad. Roquat/Ruggedo, having survived being hit by two eggs, may be relatively egg-tolerant. While on the subject of nomes, female nomes do exist. They first make their appearance in heretical Oz in "Sir Harold and the Gnome King". While I am unaware of them existing yet in HACC-compliant Oz, one will appear in _The Woozy of Oz_ (assuming I can finish the editing and send it in to the publishers) in the same scene as the moose. 2) David, while I concur with you that Dorothy is biologically related to Henry and not Em (just to irritate Geoff Ryman), that Dorothy is illegitimate seems unlikely. Had Baum ever written a scene in which Dorothy's mother appeared, it seems unlikely that he would have made her have a child out of wedlock, as the topic of illegitmacy is never breached in any of Baum's writings, Oz or otherwise (so far as I can tell). That Dorothy's father could be more than human is possible, but one probobly does not need magic ancestors to have magic adventures; no one has acused Trot, Betsy, and Button-Bright of being half-fairy. 3) Mike, please see if you can see you can find my name in ELS in _Patchwork_. (If it coms out anywhere near the first reference to the sign saying "BEWARE OF THE WOOZY", I'll be surprised.) Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman óñåé ìåàù ïá äîìù ïøäà adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:28:47 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: attachment; filename="tyler.txt" Steve: Another example is Robert Asprin's Myth Inc. In this series, I believe authors are allowed to kill off their own characters, but not other's. Dave: (blush) thanks for the vote of confidence. My explanation is below. I do not vouch for the quantity of eloquence :-) Kiex: Well, I agree with part of your assertation. As David Hulan would say, we have a point of view of Oz-as-literature and Oz-as-history. From the Oz- as-literature point of view, we can simply say that Baum either forgot about the magic belt, or conveniently ignored it so that he would have an exciting story to tell. From an Oz-as-history perspective, though, we need a deeper reason to explain why the belt was not used. From this perspective, Oz and it's citizens are real, and they do (or do not do) things for a reason. There are three possibilities: The characters themselves forgot (highly unlikely, since they did use the belt in the story), the characters did not know the full extent of the power (the thing about "one wish a day" is repeated nowhere else in or out of the FF, so Baum's a little shaky here), or the belt really was low on power. As Dave said, if we operate on the asumption that the belt is always all- powerful, and the characters always use it to it's full potential we are faced with having no stories at all or the same one recycled over and over again. For the sake of the adventure, we NEED the belt to run low from time to time. The belt is only as powerful as those who made it, and there is no evidence that the belt was made by all-powerful beings, such as Lurline or Ak. Granted, the belt SEEMS all-powerful, especially in post-Baum Oz, but that may be the result of Glinda and the Wizard "supercharging" it over the years. Interestingly enough, Kiex (or Jeremy), I notice that in your own book, _The Enchanted Emeralds of Oz_, there is a magic item of seemingly limitless power that is also not used to its full potential. Also, the power of a certain witch does not seem to be used fully, either. David: An interesting theory, but as you say, not quite a consensus. To be honest, it does seem to be reaching a bit. As we have remarked on the digest before, though, there is something odd about Dorothy and her ability to get involed in one fairy adventure after another. page versus chapters: Peter Clarke's _Who's Who, What's What and Where's Where in Oz_ also gives chapter references, since the typesetting has been reset more than once. Also, not every book has all the illos, and so on. You're only as old... Certainly the Wizard, the Shaggy Man and Cap'n Bill seem to enjoy Oz. I guess it really depends on the person. Belt: I believe that the consensus among those who believe the belt was low on power for a while was that it ran down at the end of _Emerald City_ and was not back up to snuff until early in the Thompson administration. Scott: I am not sure why the gay community identifies so much with Dorothy (the Judy Garland version, at least). IIRC, there is no mention of a gay lifestyle anywhere in Oz, except for the March Laumer thing, and that was not about Dorothy (sort of) or Glinda. I would tend to agree that Dorothy's being a girl is not in and of itself a necessary story element. As you say, she is every child. Ruth: IIRC, the info about Nome = "One who knows" is not in a footnote, but I forgot which book it was in. Kiex: Yes, the footnote about RUg's name change was in _Tk-Tok_. It seems that the belt ran down only once, and that was in the possession of good people. The evidence to date indicates that it was made by people who were evil, or at least gray-shaded. Therefore, it would have no need or desire to protect itself from nasties. Dave: I would argue that Jellia may actually have a job that is PC. She is clearly the most trusted of Ozma's servants. In fact, she may even be the head servant, which would be a very responsible position in a palace that size. Jellia: To be honest, Dave, Gidget couldn't HANDLE this job! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:58:31 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 Steve: Well, there's nothing in my MS that violates your paragraph on what's acceptable. So now I just need to wonder whether you three thought it was good enough or not. Atticus: >From an Oz-as-literature POV your comments make perfect sense. But from an Oz-as-history POV you're saying that Ozma didn't rescue Dorothy, at least, because she needed to teach the Wizard a lesson - which doesn't sound like Ozma's character in most of the books, though given her attitude toward Eureka, maybe she was Going Through A Phase in DOTWIZ? >i never bought this hooey about the belt's "running down." i firmly >believe the belt is all-powerful, and the only REAL evidence we have of its >limitations is in _lost princess_ when baum had to have it out of >commission until the end (i felt cheated and indignant about all the >inconsistent "close one eye, stand on your head and cluck like billina >before making your wish" business). i don't think the belt ever runs out >of power, but baum conveniently ignored it frequently, as of course did RPT >and others. The Magic Belt is also there, but apparently impotent, in GLINDA; Dorothy is wearing it throughout, but it doesn't seem to be able to help her or Ozma raise the Skeezers' island. Even if Dorothy doesn't know how to use it for that purpose, Ozma should, if it could. Either the belt runs out of power, or Ozma runs out of brains; I prefer to believe the former. (Again, from an Oz-as-history POV.) Scott: I think the "I'm Glinda, the good lesbian" comment was clearly an attempt to draw an analogy between Glinda's being a good witch - since witches are traditionally considered evil in European folklore - and lesbians' being considered evil in Southern Baptist folklore (or so I infer from their recent vote to boycott Disney). I don't think the person quoted had any intention of implying that _our_ Glinda was in fact a lesbian (though that coterie of the most beautiful maidens in Oz might give one to wonder, maybe...). As for Shanower giving Tom a male lover, well...it's not inherently implausible; we don't know anything about Tom after SHAGGY MAN, at which point he was clearly too young to have any sexual preference. That one out of the considerable number of boys who have visited Oz at one time or another (Zeb, Button-Bright, Bob Up, Peter, Speedy, Bucky, Tom, Jam, Robin, and I'm not sure I haven't forgotten one or two) would turn out to be gay when he grew up doesn't seem statistically unlikely. You're a big guy, but didn't give me the impression of being Fat so much as Beefy when I saw you. Yeah, 250 is more than you should weigh, but you're tall enough that 200 is probably about right. And I should be 170 but am more like 215. (But I was 225 this time last year, so I'm making progress...) Good luck to both of us in losing the excess. If we're going back to discussing WIZARD, then I say much the same thing I did to Atticus about DOTWIZ: your comments are cogent from the Oz-as-literature POV, but not from Oz-as-history. If Dorothy got left behind by the Wizard, then once she found out that going to Glinda was the best next step, she should have called on the Winged Monkeys immediately and forestalled the whole trip section. I would hope that the _absence_ of characters from WIZARD from a centennial MS wouldn't have any major effect on the judging. While all the major characters from WIZ (who survive the book) do appear in my MS, only one of them has an important role. (And Toto, IIRC, doesn't appear at all, though I may be forgetting a cameo. I finished the MS three months ago and haven't revisited it since.) Lynn: I'll certainly check in with your alternative activities during the Winkie auction. Although handicrafts aren't very much my thing, any more than auctions. I keep hoping that someone, somewhere at an Oz convention, will have a program item or items on the Oz-as-history theme, which is my main interest... I know, I should volunteer to be program chairman at an Oz convention. Someday, maybe. But not until I know more Oz fans better in person. Ruth: OK, maybe I'll take a systematic look at what the FF say about the effect of eggs on nomes (or gnomes, depending on author). I don't know if it would work as a BUGLE article (the BUGLE doesn't seem to be much interested in Oz-as-history articles in recent years), but it would at least be a decent Research Group paper. Unless someone else on the Digest wants to do it first? (It'll probably be this fall before I have time.) Jeremy: Actually, DOTWIZ is one of the shortest of the Oz books even with all the miscellaneous happenings in Oz after Ozma does her _dea ex machina_ trick, including the Wizard explaining his origins, the conversation, race, and fight between Jim and the Sawhorse, and the extended trial of Eureka. Whatever Baum's reason for running Dorothy & Co. into a dead end and calling on Ozma, fear of making the book too long couldn't have been one. I agree that my books will never be as "Ozzy" as Baum's better ones - though I think that he wrote several books that weren't in the spirit of his better books (and DOTWIZ is one of them), and that other authors (Thompson, Snow, and McGraw at least) have written books that are Ozzier and better than Baum's lesser works, and I don't concede that I might not, whether or not I have so far notwithstanding. YMMV. The part of New Mexico around Santa Fe is indeed very pleasant, based on the times I've been there. Not where I'd really want to live myself, because of the lack of a Big City nearby for its cultural amenities, but the climate is very acceptable. Tyler: >I was under the impression that the MS contest was asking for books based >on the "spirit of Baum". While I did not enter the contest, I interpreted >this to mean that events in the Baum 14 were "common knowledge". Therefore, >one could write based on those 14 with little or no explanation. That was my assumption as well. I'm just hoping it was the judges'. Oh, there are worse places than southern Arizona for summertime heat. It's just that I don't regard southern Arizona as having a very desirable climate, for someone like me. >Dave: >That note about resolving inconsistancies was wonderful. I truly believe, >as does the author of that comment, that it is precisely because we love >the people and places of Oz that we nitpick so much and try to resolve as >much as we can. Agreed entirely. And Oz, unlike "Red Dwarf", is Real. :-) My point about the Belt not allowing itself to be stolen from whoever is wearing it is a reflection of Rinkitink's comment about the Pink Pearl - which had the same protective capacity. He said that as long as he didn't lose it, which he wouldn't because he'd pin that pocket closed, it would be safe, because no one with evil intent could take it from him. (Hmmm. Maybe Dorothy could take the belt from the Nome King because her intent wasn't evil, but good. Even though Roquat wouldn't have thought of it that way.) And obviously I need to check your Web page again; haven't done so in a month or two. If nothing else, I need to see if you've added the Buckethead reviews I sent in - and I need to send you a couple more, for that matter. Melody: Sure, there are ways around Dorothy's invisibility in Voe preventing Ozma from knowing she was signaling. But at least it would make sense that Dorothy might not know that, so she'd choose to go on until Saturday... It's not just the smell and mess of horse droppings. They breed flies - FLIES - and those are more annoying, and unhealthy, than the droppings themselves. Having grown up, off and on, in communities that still had large horse populations and in ones that didn't, I can confidently state that the "shmutzige fliegen - from the stable to your table" were far commoner in the former. As was typhoid fever. Craig: $1500 sounds like a lot of money for even a first edition, first state book with DJ if it's significantly damaged by water. I wouldn't pay it in any case - I'm not a collector - but I don't think anyone would sight unseen. (If the damage were small enough it _might_ be worth it, though from what I've seen I doubt it. But I don't really know what 1E1Sw/DJ books from the early days are worth, since I don't care.) Shaggy: So, how many times and in what contexts would "David" appear in the every-so-many-letter codes in WIZARD? Dave: As I remarked above, the Belt can't be "all-powerful", or at least Ozma doesn't know how to use all its powers, or she'd have used it in GLINDA to raise the Skeezer city. All: I'm leaving for California tomorrow to attend my daughter's college graduation and to see how my mother-in-law is doing. (The prognosis isn't particularly good, alas. The type and stage of cancer she has has a 5-year survival rate of only 10-15%; the mean survival time is 12 months if she responds well to chemo and 6 if she doesn't. The next few months don't promise to be very good. Especially coupled with the fact that my own mother's Alzheimer's seems to be progressing rather fast as well...) So the Digests should be shorter for the next week, until I get back and try to catch up! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:51:02 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 David Hulan, > I don't think Modesto is far enough from San Francisco to require the > long train journey Dorothy apparently had, so Hughson is probably not > relevant. You are probably right, although I don't believe that the trains of that day were any speed demons. I used to work for the Southern Pacific and can recall that the trip on a freight train from Roseville (near Sacramento) to Sparks, NV (next to Reno) was a little over 100 miles and took around 13 hours. That was in the 60's. Stopping to load coal and water was not even a necessity then. Mainly a matter of weight and crossing the Sierra Nevada, but a trip from San Francisco to around Modesto could (at that time) certainly fall within our time limits. -- If a man is makes a statement in the forest with no woman around is he still wrong? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 23:23:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 Say what?!?: Scott H. wrote:>>Michelle and I discussed a bit of irritation at Eric Shanower giving Tom a male lover I', confused. To what Shanower writing does this refer? I've obviously missed something here. DOTWIZ: I'm slowly convincing myself that this book was created with a stage play in mind. Neill's illos back this up...esp. the Wizard's comic mask and the fact that Zeb looks like a real person, not a standard Neill face at all...not even when he draws members of his family. Neill's style was in transition for this book. In LAND, he was required to look something like Denslow. In OZMA, he's still heavier of line than usual...figures squatter than in later versions...still experimentint. By DOTWIZ, we see some of his more delicate stuff showing up, but mostly in incidental drawings. The cp's, however, look like sketches for the stage. Look at the one, especially, of the Mangaboos on their parent plants. Boy, is that stagey. (Also, BTW, it contradicts the text in having a woman instead of the prince with the star there.) I can't help but wonder if the Princess of the Mangaboos is the forerunner to Ozga and if the Mangaboos themselves aren't forerunners to the roses in TIK TOK. TIK TOK was definitely meant as a stage play...mostly a rewrite of OZMA, but did Baum salvage the live plants from DOTWIZ as good stage stuff? Is that why the section is there in the first place? And when were the Fairylogues? Couldn't Baum have planned to have glass slides projected to a screen at the back of the stage as a special "Floating down to the glass city" effect? And I'm pretty sure they could "fly" actors by 1908. Great special effect. I don't know how farfetched this is, but I'm gonna play with the idea some more before I abandon it...if I do abandon it. Baum was theatrical at heart and wanted to repeat his stage success. Did he try to repeat it with DOTWIZ? Feedback, please. Thanks to those who reminded me of footnotes I'd forgotten. We are discussing the advisability of printing the titles of the MSS that are still in competition. We need to wait for Peter Hanff's input. He's out of town until next week. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:55:03 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Rally Round the Flag! In the 6/14 Digest, Gordon Birrell asks, Perhaps this particular flag has some special meaning for Ozma -- a relic from her father's reign, perhaps. If so, it would continue to be displayed, no matter how faded it became. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:18:40 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest On the discussion of progress reports on the judging of Oz-Book entries and what the precise meanings are of the various parameters -- please, could those of you interested not put this material into the Digest? Ask the judges if you want to know, but as a non-entrant I'm bored. David Hulan: Uncle Henry's name could have been Gale and yet he could have been related to Dorothy Gale through his sister if Dorothy's mother married a cousin of the same name (or, for that matter, someone unrelated of the same name, as occasionally happens). The idea that Dorothy's mother wasn't married, and that the father was someone of magical nature is possible, but it doesn't seem to strike me as appealing. (I don't mind the bastardy, but object to the theory that Dorothy's affinity for going to Oz needs genetic explanation. And, of course, the name situation is a good bit simpler if Henry is a Gale and if he is related to Dorothy through his brother Gale, rather than through a sister.) Scott Hutchinson: Thanks, yes, I meant Fred Woodward, not Hank Woodward. (Also, I meant "Magic" rather than "Glinda" as the book with the "patio" footnote.) Tyler Jones: On female gnomes -- well, as I discussed in my Dunkiton pamphlet on gnomes, originally the system of elemental spirits assumed male gnomes and female gnomides (and male sylphs and female sylphides -- hence the ballet of "Les Sylphides," although the -ide terms never caught on and have pretty much vanished from use). The salamanders weren't particularly popular as characters and didn't get stereotyped as being of either one sex or the other, but the stereotypes of air and water as graceful and yielding led to a stereotyping of sylphs and ondines (masculine ondin, but that term vanished from use, too) as all female. So to get any male characters into the action on that system, the gnomes pretty much had to be stereotyped as male. Then, too, the earth spirits (gnomes) were conflated with the kobolds in their guise as mine-spirits, and that meant that gnomes were being thought of as rock spirits more than earth spirits, and the hard, unyielding character of rock, by the same process of stereotyping, also led the gnomes to be seen as males. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:30:11 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 Steve: The Man-Kzin Wars were melded with the Star Trek universe by the animated series. I've heard about how Ray Powell wrote _The Raggedys in Oz_ just because he wanted to kill off Percy, but he is no longer living, if I remember correctly, and could not win the contest. Of course, I thought I remembered reading several years ago that Onyx Madden had died, when in fact, as we all know, he only left us last year. Perhaps he killed off his pseudonym like Stephen King did. Jeremy: Didn't Ozma have a cat later in the series? I think I read this in _Who's Who in Oz_. Tyler: I think the second quest could have worked quite well in a motion picture, the proof being Tunc Basaran's _Aysecik ve Sihirli Cuceler Ruyalar Ulkesinde_, which does so, albeit somewhat abridged. It carries a similar effect to what I explained as the importance of this second quest. Melody: I forgot to tell you how much I love your dragon art in the calendar. Dave: Correction on my part: her name is Nancy Norton. I suppose my book can't be too much like Laumer then, as Steve suggested because of its obligatory (for me) film references. I also reference every other major story I have ever written, but you wouldn't notice unless you had read them. I've never been published. Scott ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 19, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 12:49:54 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 Ruth: So is there another name for a male of the fairy species besides "fairy," which has a bit of a different connotation when applied to a male, although Spryte's father is the fairy king in _The Legend of Zelda_ and Krysta and Thumbelina have fairy boyfriends in _FernGully_ and _Thumbelina_. Chris Lofven's _Oz_ goes with the notion that gets spread about the films as Glinda as a good fairy, so he make the fairy a male running a boutique, which the album refers to as "a REAL good fairy." BTW, my last naem is Hutchins, not Hutchinson. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:01:11 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 > > Would there be any harm in announcing the titles of the books that are > still in the running? The only possible objection I can see is that if > no announcement is made of anything but the ultimate winner, all the > entrants can believe that they might have been considered the second > best, whereas if semi-finalists and finalists are announced those who > don't make it will know that they weren't considered better than sixth > or seventh or eighth best. But that seems like a fairly thin reason to > keep everyone in suspense for months. > > David Hulan > I don't know how many times Publishers Central Bureau or Ed McMahon has told me that I was I finalist in a contest for millions of dollars, indeed, their letters would lead an unwary "contestant" to believe that he WAS a winner of $11,000,000. You do not expect Ed or (PCB) to announce who is really still in the running. The winner will be announced after being chosen. The judges have agreed not to discuss individual MSS except with one another. The place of a judge is an uneviable one. It is said a judge of a beauty contest makes 30 enemies and one ingrate. Tiresias judged an argument between Zeus and Hera, and lost his eyesight as a result. Paris judged between Hera, Athene, and Aphrodite in a beauty contest and as a result his city of Troy was destroyed. Fortunately no-one need know who voted for what or what judge made what decision. Anyone who submitted a MS may believe that his/her MSS was one of the final three, even if it was not the ONE. > > Steve: Let me guess, my MS was too sprecialized... I was hoping it would > not be. > As I said above, I will not discuss individual MSS. > > Now that I have seen the clip of _The Wonderful Land of Oz_ in the Swann > doc. I want to see it more than ever now matter how bad people tell me it > is. > > Scott > I take it you mean the Barry Mahon version. Good luck in finding it. > > Steve: > Remember, ALice in Wonderland is full of references todayy;s audiences > don't get, but we still enjoy the story. However, the enjoyment is increased by knowledge of the references. I am teaching a two-week course to gifted junior high school students on "Aspects of Alice." None of them had read the two Alice books. > One more thing: would the exclusion of Nick Chopper, other than several mentions, and the minimal > appearance of the Lion and cameo of the Scarecrow, have any impact on the decision? > No. > Scott > --- > Steve: > Yay! I am so happy to have finally found another who believes Baum's books > are the original and the best I thought that was generally accepted, at least by older readers. However the best of Thompson are as good as (or better than Baum at his worst.) I personally have a fondness for MAGICAL MIMICS, and MERRY-GO-ROUND has its supporters. > Shirley Temple Dorothy: > I had not known about the LAND OF OZ film version Steve spoke of. I'd think > she'd have made a better Dorothy than Judy Garland--someone who has seen it, > am I right? The Shirley Temple LAND OF OZ was a made for television version with an all-star cast. A copy was shown at an Ozmopolitan Convention a few years ago, but with the restriction that no copying was permitted. > > I agree with you on Neilll's pics of the Wiz--yecccch. I like his simple > style in "Land" better than the busier style he uses in later Oz books. > > Melody Grandy > *I* liked Niell's portrait of the Wizard so much, when I had a terrible copy of DOTWIZ that was being junked I removed the portrait page and had it mounted. Since the number of states visited seems to be a theme in the digest I should note that I have been in 48 (Vermont and Hawaii are the exceptions) Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:25:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi, I know I'm new on this, but I gotta tell you, it may seem interesting for many, but all this in depth discussion of Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (which is annoyingly referred to as "DOTWIZ") and Queen Zixi's physical appearance is BOOOOOORRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGG!!! I work in public relations, and I know for a fact that the vast majority of people wish to read pertinent information brought about in concise and brief manners. Overlong and repetitive discussions of a rehashed topic kill the interest for most, but not for the die hard sturgids who believe wholeheartedly in what they have to say, no matter how much we die of boredom. I enjoyed Melody Grandy's tour of the Oz theme park, and the opinions about various topics ranging from the centennial contest to the recent issue of the Baum Bugle are always read. Passed up are those LLEENNGGTTHHYY paragraphs discussing "DOTWIZ" and Zixi. Digest connotates brevity. Let's see some exciting information! Let's get some insider information! What's coming out soon? What can we expect? What are the treasures of your collection? How did you find them? Sure, jealousy might abound, but you gotta admit it's interesting! I only have a meager collection, and only of Books of Wonder and Buckethead Enterprises, NONE of the original forty at all. I for one would sure like to hear more about other people's collections, but DO KEEP IT BRIEF! Now that I've added my eleven cents worth and made my message impossibly too long to be interesting, I'll sign off. Hope to see more in the future! Thanks! Kieran F. Miller (Baringer@aol.com) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:35:04 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 Someone might want to go to this url and provide biograpical information: http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Mannix,+Daniel+P. Unfortunately, I never met him. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:07:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 Dave: I'm glad to see the DIGEST back on a daily basis. The every-other-day schedule created "monster" DIGESTS which were almost tedious to get through. On t'other hand, if your real life makes an everyday DIGEST too difficult, I'll not complain. I'm just glad to get it whenever it shows up. Earl: Great theory about the pennant's having belonged to Pastoria. Ruth: Thank you "mille fois" for your comment about MS stuff going into the DIGEST. I'm not bored by it, but I do feel it's inappropriate. I must, however, caution anyone who wants to write to me personally that I will not divulge anything to you: I simply can not do so. Nor will I be able to comment on your particular MS. I'm sorry to disappoint y'all, but I really don't think I should say anything about anything specific. I don't think Steve should, either, but he will do as he deems best. DOTWIZ: Gee it's slow reading for me. I'm surprised at how strong my antipathy towards it is...makes it hard to be objective. One of the reasons I love Tolkien is because he knew how to relieve the darkness of a story by inserting a gentle, warm incident into just the right place. Baum wasn't good at that, and it shows most in DOTWIZ. RPT, BTW, *did* use the relief incident; the Soup Sea in KABUMPO and the Box Wood/Ix scene in SILVERT PRINCESS come to mind. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:18:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 Sorry for double post, but I forgot to mention that statistical studies consistently claim that 1 outta 20 people is homosexual. So how many mortals have been to Oz? Are there 20? Dot, Wiz, Henry, Em, Trot, Bettsy, Shaggy, Cap'n Bill, Bob Up, Speedy, Peter, Robin, Zeb, Button Bright, Tom, Twink, Bucky, and Jam. I count 18 there, but I've probably missed some. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:57:34 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 > Dave - If you are taking votes, I really like the bigger-every-other-day > Digests. > I don't. I cannot get the entire long digest into my reply file. > David - This is a perfect example of the dichotomy between conservatives > and liberals. It seems as though the liberal usually relates to the > criminal while the conservative relates to the victim. I must differ: the liberal wants to reduce crime by removing (if possible) the causes; the conservative believes that punishing the offenders is the best way to prevent it. Both positions are imperfect, but I lean towards prevention rather than cure, as the evidence that punishment will deter crime is very slender. Most offeners believe they will never be caught. Fear of punishment may deter those who would probably not commit the crime in the first place. > Well, I watched "His Majesty The Scarecrow." I'm glad LFB spent most of > his energy on books. Yes, I know those were the early years of movies. Actually BIRTH OF A NATION is about the same time as the Oz Film Manufacturing Company. > > Cryptically, Bear (:<) > > Steve: The Man-Kzin Wars were melded with the Star Trek universe by the > animated series. Only in one episode, in which the vegetarian Spock replaces the Puppiteer. It was based on one of Larry Niven's own stories, > I've heard about how Ray Powell wrote _The Raggedys in > Oz_ just because he wanted to kill off Percy, but he is no longer living, > if I remember correctly, and could not win the contest. Actually he wrote the book because he loved both Oz and Johnny Gruelle. The extinction of Percy was an afterthought. Anyway he had no hope of that book being ever published because of the Guelle copyrights. >Of course, I thought I remembered reading several years ago that Onyx Madden had died, > when in fact, as we all know, he only left us last year. There are many rumors floating around. Jim Nitch (Onyx Madden) had edited the work of the deceased Fred Otto and Rob Roy MacVeigh as THE OZIADS. > Jeremy: Didn't Ozma have a cat later in the series? I think I read this > in _Who's Who in Oz_. > No, OZANA, in MAGICAL MIMICS, had a kitten, Felina. In MAGIC, Toto suggests Dorothy give the "worthless pink kitten' as a birthday present to Ozma, but Dorothy decides against that. Any day now I am going to be evicted from my office by those who are remodeling this building. I will still be able to get e-mail from other computers on campus, but it will be on the archaic ELM system, not NETSCAPE so I will have to relearn how to reply to the digest. I may not be back to my dear old computer until classes resume in late August. I will keep in touch as best I can. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:06:04 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Some format comments: Aaron, could you omit your Hebrew-character signature? -- I think that's what thre this most recent Digest into the hexadecimal format again, and it takes extra effort to read it hexed or remove the hexis; Tyler, how does it happen that your most recent couple of messages have been double-spaced (and, if convenient, could you get them to go back to single-spacing)? Bear: Interesting point about Jim's intent, and whether it should make a difference in punishment for kicking the Sawhorse. I wonder if someone in the group has formal legal training to comment on how "intent" matters. I seem to recall a theory that good intent matters in law (if you didn't mean to kill someone but did, it's not murder), but bad intent doesn't matter much (assulting someone with the intention of killing, if the assault fails to kill, is not worse, or only a little worse, than simple assault). But I'm not sure I'm recalling the source accurately, and don't know for sure if the source (a magazine article) was authoritative. Actually, though, considering that Jim has been fighting Gargoyles earlier in the story, I suspect that he has reason to believe that a wooden Sawhorse can be injured but will not feel pain. Tyler Jones: There is the one very brief "mention of a gay lifestyle" in RPT's "Ojo," in the character of Dick-with-the-queer-hatband, whose hatband consists of a girl's sash. (Whether she knew that's what the phrase and description implied, I'm not sure, but the girl's sash makes it obvious that no reference to Richard Cromwell is meant.) David Hulan mentions the recent items in the news about plans to have the Southern Baptist sect boycott Disney, because Disney has a "gay-friendly" environment -- if the boycott goes through, I wonder if any of the group have suggestions for ways to express support to Disney. Although I'm not homosexual myself, unwillingness to persecute gays seems to me a laudable corporate aim. (If I believed in Satan, I would go so far as to say that the Southern Baptists are doing the Devil's work.) Robin Olderman: The story of Eric Shanower's that gives the grown-up Tom a male a lover is the one about the return to Conjo's Island in last year's "Oz Magazine." You might be right in thinking that there's some stage influence on how Baum was thinking of the characters and how Neill was drawing them (and in idea that Baum drew on the Magaboos and their Princess when he was working up Ozga and the Roses for the stage "Tik-Tok"), but I don't think "Dorothy and the Wizard" as a whole was intended for the stage. Journey stories, where the scene keeps changing, and the different scenes are about equally important, are hard to stage (it can be done, as with the "Wizard," but it isn't usually the plan that someone intending a play chooses -- "Tik-Tok" is formally a journey, but the not all the places are scenically important), and the characters don't include any choruses-of-pretty-girls such as extravaganzas of the time aimed for (unless you count the one paragraph description of the Cloud Fairies -- the Mangaboos and Ozites are of both sexes), and the invisible Voe-ans would be hard to present. I don't remember when the Fairylogues were, but think it was a bit later -- will try to remember to check. Earl Abbe: Faded flag as a relic from Pastoria's reign -- that's a touching idea. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:27:01 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 RANDOM _GLINDA_ QUESTION: on page 176 of my first edition of _glinda_, the scarecrow is missing his nose (illustration). in my del rey paperback, the nose is intact. what gives? robin, i thought you might know if this was a press fluke. >It seems that the belt ran down only once, and that was in the possession of > >good people. The evidence to date indicates that it was made by people who > >were evil, or at least gray-shaded. Therefore, it would have no need or > >desire to protect itself from nasties. tyler, have you not read _time-traveling in oz_? i explain the magic belt's origins therein. >Scott: > >I am not sure why the gay community identifies so much with Dorothy (the > >Judy Garland version, at least). IIRC, there is no mention of a gay lifestyle > >anywhere in Oz, except for the March Laumer thing, and that was not about > >Dorothy (sort of) or Glinda. well, speaking from a gay perspective, i have some thoughts on the "friends of dorothy" phenomenon (that's what homosexuals are sometimes called). actually, i think it's possible i might have read something on this somewhere, but i'm not at all certain. anyway-- dorothy's troubled home life and desire to escape harsh realities mirror the crap that homosexuals have to go through--harshness from or being ignored by parents/guardians (one must admit that in the movie aunt em was a real b****, and henry was definitely mentally absent) and a feeling of loss (miss gulch's collection of toto and dorothy's absent parents). with respect to loss, gays often feel they have lost their place in and respect from society (often this perception is rather accurate). as an interesting sidenote, the famous 1969 riot at the gay bar called stonewall in new york city, an event which marks the beginning of the modern gay rights movement, occurred on the day of judy garland's death. to proceed to less psychoanalytical reasons, gays tend to flock to musical "divas" such as barbra streisand, madonna, etc. personally, my musical tastes tend towards techno and industrial, but many gays worship female singers, and judy garland was certainly one of them. this is hard for me to explain, but it might have something to do with the image of woman vocalists as bold and powerful, something gays wish to emulate after centuries of persecution. i guess in a small way i can relate to the "female vocalist worship" thing. one of my favorite songs, oddly enough considering my usual musical tastes, is "whatever will be, will be (que sera sera)" by doris day. someone recently asked me why, and i think it's because "que sera sera" is the attitude gays (myself included) must have to survive the senseless, daily hatred we experience. it's inexcusable and infuriating, yet it perpetuates. but life goes on. * * * "Suffering does make us more sensitive until it crushes us completely." ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 22:39:36 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Bear: I'm not sure that Eureka was really exiled to Kansas. It seems to me that the Ozites simply assumed that she would return there with Dorothy, perhaps as a "cooling off period", after which she would be welcomed back to Oz. That, of course, is another can of worms altogether. Eureka's return to Oz is a little unclear. She is not mentioned in _Road_ or _Emerald City_, yet she suddenly appears in _Patchwork Girl_. Some have suspected that she sneaked along in _Road_ and jsut stayed there until she was discovered. Nobody wanted to send her to Kansas where nobody would take care of her. March Laumer has a very interesting story of how Eureka got to Oz, but it's too lengthy to go into here. On yet another related note, I remember the Shaggy Man talking about Eureka to the Glass Cat. He hints that Eureka is very popular and has a lot of influence, but I think he was just blowing smoke trying to "scare Bungle straight". Which brings to me to yet another side-issue. People have commented that Baum did not like horses. Since Eureka and Bungle are of less than stellar reputation, I submit that he did not care too much for cats, either. The strange: For some reason, my posts seem to have the effect of doubling the number of carriage returns. This paragraph is being written without pressing the "ENTER" key, since the DOS editor creates a soft-return for me at the end of each line. We shall see if this paragraph, unlike the earlier ones, has the double-spacing. Phat: Well, I fought my way down to 184 from 217, but now I'm back to 197. I must get rid of this gut before October (high school reunion). David: My best wishes go with you and your mother. The notes about the belt and the pink pearl are going points, but you seem to be assuming that the two are of similar power and operation. They may have part of the same goal (protection), but they seem to get there by different paths. The pink pearl appears to generate a protective zone around the bearer. Also, Rinkitink may have been guessing when he mentioned the evil intent. After all, he only knows about the pearl from a quick conversation with Inga, who himself does not know much about them. It is possible, though, that the pearl can look into your heart and discern the intent of the person. The Belt probably does not. Also, the belt was used twice more in _Ozma_ after the escaped the Nome King, so it could not have been run down that much. All reviews have been added, but remember my new URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tnj/ the old one still has stuff there, but I cannot update it. As of now, I still have not asked CompuServe to put another pointer there. Belt in _Glinda_: Even if the Belt had not been able to raise the island, they could have transported themselves to the Emerald City or to shore, where they could have worked on the problem much better. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 00:40:46 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 >>Generally you cannot ... permanently change the nature >of one of the major characters. In fine you cannot do anything that >would prevent future authors from continuing the series as if your book >were not published.< Hopefully that rules out mostly stories in the vein of "The Radioactive Teddy Bear from H*** Destroys Oz," or "The Death of the Scarecrow," which would definitely prevent anyone from continuing the series as if the book were not published. This is the quandary for anybody writing a series--TV, book, or otherwise--characters who never change and grow eventually become terribly irritating, but the danger in letting characters mature completely, solve all their hangups, and get everything they want in life is that they may become too "uninteresting" to write about. "May" because a clever writer could make such a character interesting anyway. Tyler & Scott: >I am not sure why the gay community identifies so much with Dorothy (the Judy Garland version, at least).< In the computer wallpaper of the Fab 4 that comes up on my computer, Judy does look androgynous if you imagine her without her long tresses... And one does see photos of Judy in masculine-looking stage costumes...Not a definite answer to your question, just an opinion. Last year, right here in Asheville, the producers of "My Fellow Americans" staged a gay parade for the film with all trumpet-blowing guys dressed as MGM's Dorothy. One of our local free papers featured a trick-photo giant Dorothy-guy on the cover. Ack! Out of the three gay guys (admittedly few) I've known, two have said to me the words, "I envy you." One, an ex-supervisor, was a very envious person--when one person in our office got flowers, he commented, "Nobody ever gives me flowers." It was amazing how quickly he had forgotten that he had recieved flowers only a week before. This was not an isolated incident, folks, it was ongoing behavior. One day he wished aloud that he was capable of having a baby, then uncomfortably retracted the statement not long after. Apparently convinced the opposite sex had it better than he did, he later came out of the closet. Not saying envy is *the* cause of gayness, but it probably was in this case. Anger over mistreatment by the opposite sex has been used to justify prejudice against the opposite sex, too. And the third guy with gay leanings (he was trying to overcome them) never openly expressed envy of me--he simply seemed to prefer feminine ways over masculine. David Hulan: >Having grown up, off and on, in communities that still had large horse populations and in ones that didn't, I can confidently state that the "shmutzige fliegen - from the stable to your table" were far commoner in the former. Blech! (To "shmutzige fliegen," that is. :-) {A city without "smutty flies" would seem like Paradise, too!}) Robin: Say what?!?: Scott H. wrote:>>Michelle and I discussed a bit of irritation at Eric Shanower giving Tom a male lover. >I'm confused. To what Shanower writing does this refer? I've obviously missed something here. Shanower does this in "Abby," a sequel to "Shaggy Man" he wrote for "Ozstory 2." It irritated me, too. Scott: > I forgot to tell you how much I love your dragon art in the calendar. Then *I* had better not forget to thank you! :-) You must've flipped your calendar to the present month. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:14:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SSUSAOU812@aol.com Subject: The hangman Dave: My daughter told me that "someone died by hangingwhen making the movie." She showed me the scene after the witch leaves the trio in the woods and continues to march down the road into the wood against a blue background. At the end of the scene something or someone is seen moving then swinging on what appears to be a rope in the background. My daughter contends that this is the body of someone who has hanged himself. She has the rest of the family convinced. So, I ask the expert. What is this thing swinging? Thanks, Roy E-Mail ssusa@bigfoot.com [See, what did I tell you? :) :) Anyway, could someone E-mail this person to answer his question? -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:16:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 Hi everyone! Time for one of my every-so-often posts. Last week I went and bought a BUNCH of old Oz books for my collection, including some first editions (Tin Woodman, Magic, Giant Horse, Silver Princess w/jacket, possible (but unverified) first editions of Captain Salt and Magical Mimics). I would be very interested in talking to other old Oz book collectors...if you're one, and would like to start a conversation, please e-mail me. I'm also working on an Oz webpage if anyone would like to brainstorm over that. Anyhow, one of the old books I got is called "Ever New Stories for Children", published by Reilly & Britton and illustrated by John R. Neill...it has retellings of several famous stories such as Goldilocks and A Christmas Carol. The book dealer had given me some wonderful discounts, the sweet man, and threw this in for free. He said he had heard it was written by Baum (no author is credited). Does anyone know if this was actually written by Baum? It's copyrighted 1915 or 1916 (I don't have it right here to check), and I know Baum did a lot of books for Reilly & Britton. I'm glad I got it, even if it isn't by Baum, for the Neill illustrations...but can anyone give me more information about it? Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:02:20 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 David Hulan wrote: >The books do establish that Dorothy's surname is "Gale"; the >books never give a surname for Uncle Henry or Aunt Em, but if you accept >the movie version that their surname is "Gale" as well, then either >Dorothy's father was Henry's brother or Dorothy was illegitimate. ...or Dorothy's father and mother were both named "Gale", either because of intermarriage or by chance. "Jeremy and KIEX" wrote: >As a cornet and trumpet player, I can give informed knowledge to the effect >that cornets are basically the same as trumpets, just with more coiled tubing >so they seem smaller. The tubing in cornets becomes gradually wider from >mouthpiece to bell, giving them a mellower sound, while in trumpets the >tubing remains the same diameter until it gets abruptly wider at the bell. >[The bell is the wide part at the end of the horn, where the notes come >out.] Trumpets are generally used for marches whereas cornets are used for >softer, melodic pieces. I always found my cornet easier to play, because it >takes less air for me to get a higher note [but that may just be me]. The two modern instruments are quite alike, and sound much alike, but that was not always so. The trumpet has always been made of metal, and resisted the introduction of valves for a long time, and until valves were in use, was typically much longer than it is now. Since a brass instrument with no valves or toneholes has notes that grow closer together as you go higher, that gave it more usable notes, but also gave it a nobler tone. Until quite recently, it, not the bugle (which has a still wider bore than the cornet, making it still easier to play) was the military signal instrument, and many countries required a government license to own or play a trumpet. The cornet, on the other hand, was originally a wooden folk instrument with tone holes (like a recorder). The infamous "serpent" was the bass member of the family, and the saxophone was originally invented by sticking a clarinet mouthpiece on an instrument of the family (which had changed to brass by that time). Soon after the introduction of the cornet-a-piston, however, it swept away the older forms. Yes, the cornet is easier, and less tiring, to play. That's why it is the usual main brass instrument in military bands, while orchestras use it only for special effects (although theatre orchestras, apart from grand opera, used to use the cornet until quite recently; all of Sullivan's theatre scores except "Ivanhoe" specify the cornet). Jazz also originally used the cornet, until Jazz players discovered that they could coax extremely high notes from a trumpet that they couldn't get from the other instrument. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:01:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-17-97 Catchup again! 6-17: Between-the-books visit? It seems unlikely to me that Dorothy might have made an unrecorded visit to Oz between OZMA and DOTWIZ because if so, why didn't Baum at least allude to it? (Did he not knwo about it? If so, he should have been surprised himself at teh Sat AM vs. 4:00 PM conflict.) Jim's punishment less severe since Sawhorse couldn't feel pain? How did Jim know the difference? Oz fans' happiness at teh return of the Wizard can't possibly compare to the happibess of certain Ozites! Nomes & eggs: How are Nomes "born" if no females? (Not hatched, I assume. . .) Mikes: Well, of course the word "Mike" is dispersed regularly in teh passage about brains--most people who hold and use mikes have no brains whatsoever! Dave: There are your "footers" again! Nice to have them back. On to the 18th: Dave: Whoops--maybe you should go back to how you were sending these before--the post is now in =3D again! Bear: What happened to the "no political comments" idea? Tyler: Thanks for the thought, but I'm not quite as versitile/prolific as all that. My book was Emerald Ring of Oz, not Enchanted Emeralds of Oz--although one could say the emerald on the Emerald Ring was enchanted . . . Re "Solving all problems" / "Making trips unnecessary": Perhaps Ozma etc. like to watch Dorothy et al grow--struggle through her own problems and so forth. This would put Ozma in the position of a sort of "Guardian Angel" of course, not really a HACC-correct transmutation of her role, but perhaps from time to time she does like to see how Dorothy and others manage things. Just an idea. Re Sawhorse and others: So the reason Jim wasn't allowed to stay in Oz (or didn't, at least) was because of his droppings . . ? Interesting theory. David: As someone whose aunt died from cancer a few years ago, I can sympathize with you. Good luck to all concerned. I liked your byline quote ((is that what they're called?)). Weather a Gale or not...: It's too bad (in a sense) that we can determine Dorothy's ancestry by whether UH or AE was a Gale by birth. (Please don't shoot, Bear, but yes, what I meant was it's too bad names always seem to go through the male's line in our culture. I'd not have minded being a Shapiro, my mom's maiden name.) Ozma's cat? Nobody can "have" a cat--a cat can *choose* to live with you, but that's it. Purr-fectly glad to be writing of Oz, Jeremy and KIEX ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:39:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Melody: You're right about the Mangaboos' showing a certain range of emotions. When I was cataloguing the theme of deprivation in the novel, I should have spoken of lack of compassion rather than lack of emotion in the vegetable kingdom. * * * * * * SPOILER FOR _THE DISENCHANTED PRINZESS OF OZ * * * * * * * * One of many pleasures of Melody's wonderful book is the section in which Dinny and Gilo retrace the journey of the Wizard's party in _Dorothy and the Wizard_ and we get to see the trail of anguish, confusion, and desolation that the earlier visitors from the upper world had left behind them as they ascended to the surface of the earth. The land of the Gargoyles is a nightmare landscape of charred and blackened ruins. For the Mangaboos, the visitors have passed into legend as an incomprehensible visitation, a terror that came from the sky. The Wizard's balloon, a surviving remnant of the visitation, has assumed totemic functions as a ritual instrument of death (the "Cloak of Darkness"). By way of contrast, Dinny's stay in the Mangaboo country eventually leads, through Zim's botanical work, to the gift of extended life and the birth of feelings in the Mangaboos. The Age of Imperialism (in Baum's work) has been superceded by the Age of the Peace Corps. I might add that Dinny's adventures in the underworld are recounted with considerably more good humor and high spirits than are present in the original story. * * * * * * * * * * * * * END OF SPOILER * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** On hard-hearted Ozma: It's not just the death penalty for Eureka that bothers me about Ozma's behavior at the end of the book. Almost as disconcerting is her "merry laughter" when Zeb beats up on the Munchkin and hurts him so much that he cries. Apparently the readers of 1908 had different attitudes about the acceptable levels of physical violence than the readers of today (or at least *this* reader of today!). On the much-disputed Trial of Eureka the Kitten: Amidst all the negative things that have been said about this trial, it's been overlooked that this is in fact one of the funniest episodes in the book, with all that silly repartee about the "mind's eye," ineptitude on the part of the prosecution as well as the defense, and a defendant who angrily rejects as libelous the efforts of her own legal counsel to exonerate her. Beyond that, I think there may be a parallel here to _A Midsummer Night's Dream_, in which a seemingly unrelated closing episode (the little drama of Pyramus and Thisbe) actually recapitulates significant themes of the principal action of the play. Eureka goes through a trial in which her very life is at stake knowing all along that she has the means to save herself: isn't this precisely what Dorothy did in the preceding episodes of the book, enduring one life-threatening situation after another but aware (at some level) that Ozma was always there to rescue her and her friends? (This may be one reason why Baum changed the schedule of Ozma's checking the magic mirror from every Saturday to every single day.) And Eureka's explanation for her withholding the crucial information about the missing piglet explains as well why Dorothy didn't act earlier in asking for Ozma's assistance: "But why didn't you tell us at first?" [Dorothy] asked. "It would have spoiled the fun," replied the kitten, yawning. It was David IIRC who suggested some months ago that Dorothy is reluctant to call on Ozma from the start because basically she loves a good adventure and it would "spoil the fun" to go straight to Oz at the first sign of trouble. Even during the hair-raising descent into the depths of the earth she is looking forward to "another adventure, which promised to be just as queer and unusual as were those she had before encountered." I think, in other words, that the trial of Eureka *may* have been Baum's way of signalling to the reader that he knew exactly what he was doing in delaying the use of the magic belt, and the delay is best understood not as an inept plot device but as a way of understanding the motivations (conscious or otherwise) of the heroine. David & Dave: Good points about the green stripe. Baum was clearly thinking about the mixing of pigments rather than light. I wonder though about whether the combination of yellow and blue light would produce white light: don't you have to combine all three primaries (red, green, and blue) to get white light? I admit that my information is gleaned from the chapter on color channels in _Photoshop 3 for Dummies_, not perhaps the most reliable source. Ozzy note: the title of that chapter is "Auntie Em versus the Munchkins (Death Match)" :) Auntie Em representing b&w and the Munchkins the world of color. On the geography of _Dorothy and the Wizard_: it's interesting that the travelers follow a spiral pattern in their ascent: cross a valley, climb through the interior of a mountain, enter a new country, cross a valley, climb through the mountain, enter a new country, etc. I've generally assumed that the various countries were immense but finite caverns stacked vertically. This time around it struck me that maybe the countries are in fact concentric shells in the earth, each one a separate "globe." What do the rest of you think about this? --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 20 - 21, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:21:16 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Just a couple of comments, First: Kieran F. Miller, Geeze! I can only wonder what a delight it must be to be with you in person. Second: > Bear: > What happened to the "no political comments" idea? Bear, While I'm not in accord with you, I'll defend your right..... Bob Spark -- If a man is makes a statement in the forest with no woman around is he still wrong? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:08:06 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline >BTW, my last naem is Hutchins, not Hutchinson. If you would sign your posts no one would make this mistake. A little Digest Etiquette reminder...... Steven >I am teaching a two-week course to gifted junior high school students on "Aspects of Alice." None of them had read the two Alice books. "Gifted" at what? TV watching? Junk literature reading? This is one of the saddest things I have ever heard, in the literary vein. Sigh. Kieran F. Miller - Surprise, this Digest is not run to please you. It is here for all of us and we all have varying interest in the various aspects of Oz. Learn to use your down elevator if you're so bored. Sheeesh. Steven - Rather than argue with your out-of-date views of crime I would challenge you to consider what has been found out about persons with behavior disorders. And now back to Oz..... Ruth - Curiouser and curiouser. Are you making an excuse for Jim's bad behavior on the basis of the Sawhorse not being able to feel it? Jim to himself: (I think I will kick that damn Sawhorse. If I get him just right I'll bet I can knock a couple of his legs off. That will slow him down. It's no big deal, he's probably like one of those Gargoyles and can't feel anything anyway. However, smashing him real good will make ME feel much better.) Tyler - "DOS" there's your trouble right there. :) Kiex >Bear: What happened to the "no political comments" idea? It was ignored as usual. Unfortunately politics and politicians have so intruded into our lives that it is impossible not to have them on your mind. When I was young Washington was that place far away that you rarely heard about. I lived in a place rather like Oz, where crime was rare, people were hard-working and happy, taxes were low, no drugs around, librarys were filled with books, children were allowed to be children, no TV to stunt your brain, we never locked our doors, people believed in charity, people actually had morals and believed in the ten commandments, etc. It is hard, with that kind of background, to look at today and not feel anger at what has happened to our country and those who are responsible. People will tell you that there is no such thing as "the good old days." They are wrong. Scott - I have never shot a "Shapiro" or anyone else for that matter. End of growl, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:36:53 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 I hope David Shanower's story more than irritated you. I hope you figure out some way to deal with it, because the sooner you do, the sooner you'll have a clue about the kind of world the rest of us are living in. You can keep heaven, hell isn't far enough away from it for those like me. Fortunately, we have Oz and Disneyland. Arrogant intolerance like the brand I've been reading so much of on the Digest lately is making it more and more distasteful to wade through, to find the writing of the 5 or 6 who post anything worth reading. While Baptists and Disney are going at it, just thought I'd mention I learned a great deal from the many gay artists with whom I've worked on projects such as _The Secret of NIMH_ and _Beauty and the Beast_. Some are no longer with us. Due to our achievements, at last, fewer people are faking public conversions to christianity just to work on the uber-christian teams, like the one headed by animator Glen Keane. (Gay as pink ink) Hercules animator Andreas Deja pretty much nailed the macho stereotype when he and his lesbian assistant drew so much of Gaston (I helped). Many animators are too busy drawing to even notice if they've developed a gender preference. Disney was nearly the last in line of all the Hollywood studios to extend benefits to domestic partners. If Disney fired every gay employee, there wouldn't be anything produced for them to market. Why should Tom's behavior in Oz bother you anymore than the thought of Aaron placing a Mezuzah next to his door in his house in Munchkin Heights? Oh that's right, I don't have anything to worry about, it's THOSE people they're rounding up and beating to a pulp. You can whine all you want, but the legal institutions that enforce the hatred people were ostensibly fighting in WWII are at last crumbling. Just today, I received notice that Blue Cross coverage is now extended to domestic partners. Have you ever noticed how little time trash spends on the ground at Disneyland? It should outright sparkle, these days. Now, every time somebody questions a Fundamentalist Extremist while buying tickets to the park anyway, I'll have to acknowledge even more respect for the achievements of my former employer. We're here, we're queer, get used to it. Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:32:03 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Just Say No to the Disney Boycott. Ruth Berman asks in the 6/19 Digest, because it apparently recognizes homosexuality as a legitimate and natural state for a non-trivial portion of the population. The thought that comes to mind first is to boycott the Southern Baptist Convention; but they probably would not notice. Maybe a purchase at a Disney store with accompanying remarks would be more effective. (I think that I will do that.) As to doing Satan's work, religion seems to inspire the both the best and the worst in Man. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 20:34:36 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Scott: You wrote, "Craig: Don't tell me you STILL don't have a copy. I thought everybody had this... (at least of club members) Of course, I got _The Ultimate Oz_ two Christmases ago ..." I don't know what you're talking about. Are you responding to someone else? Dave: For some unknown reason I received the 6/17 and 6/19 Digests both today. I had previously received the 6/18 Digest. Mike: What are these Gutenberg Baum books you were talking about? Are they still in print? How can I get them? -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 18:20:40 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Whoops, I transposed Eric Shanower's first name with that of his partner's, David Maxine. Sorry, Eric. Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 23:21:02 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Kieran: One of the advantages of the "digest" (whatever its length) is that people can generate their own topics. If you don't like the current mix, then you are more than welcome to start a new thread. As for things being "discussed" to death, well, here I am going to get a bit critical. Fasten your seat belt. :-) From your post, I gather that you have barely tapped into the trove that is the Oz books. Therefore, you may not realize just how much material there is. Big things are made up of little things, and even such seemingly unimportant details as Zixi's physical description and "DOTWIZ" triviata may shed light on other aspects of Oz and increase our understanding. For someone who may have only read a few titles, this may be hard to realize. For example, I would doubt that anybody but a hard-core Trekker would enjoy a deep discussion about the Klingon rite of ascension, although if you ask me... (never mind) :-) For the record, I myself do "NOT" find these topics boring. Oz is a dynamic, vibrant place, and the wonders and events that transpire there are worthy of examination in great detail. Unlike today's society, where everything is packaged into 15-second sound bites to pander to channel-surfers with short attention spans, Oz cannot be soundbitten. It must be taken in full, and slowly, in great detail, because it is a full rich place that has been developed far beyond almost any other fantasy land. Even so, were barely tap the surface on the digest. As for your irritation about things beings abbreviated, just imagine how painful it would be to write _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_ over and over again. Or even if we began to discuss that famous story _Ozma gets Really Pissed off and Cusses and Totally Offends Almost Everyone in Oz_. Sorry, but there is NO WAY I'd want to write that phrase several times a day. It is my hope that you will acquire more Oz books and see that it is far too precious to be glossed over with a high-glitz sheen in a quick-fix instamtic manner. Happy hunting! You, of course, are free to dispense with abbreviations, although how you could say that my MOPPET is that the FF forms the STOB of the HACC and IMHO, BEOO and BOW are quite HA in opposition to the HIRCC, IIRC and should go on the BCF list, is a little beyond me :-) One more note: Depending on how new you are to the digest, you may not know that we have decided to go through the FF in order. Each book is successively the BCF, or Book of current focus. That book is the "official" topic for a while, although of course we are always free to throw in other topics. Robin: You can prove everything with statistics but the truth. I've heard claims that "natural" rate of homosexuality is anywhere from 2% to 15%, with rates generally being slightly higher for men. I have known five in my lifetime (two women and three men) and found all but one of them to be good and decent human beings. Suprisingly, most were fairly conservative. Atty: Yes, indeed. I have read _Time Travelling in Oz_, and it does give an account of the Magic Belt. Also, an account has been given in _Kaliko_ in Oz. By going to my web page, you can peruse my essay, which hopefully resolves the apparant inconsistencies therein. I must point out that both stories support my statement that the Belt was NOT made by all-powerful beings, thus the belt may not always be all-powerful. hanging: AAAUUGGGHH!!! It lives! Off I go to the rescue :-) "They say they're going to stop it, but it does not go away" "You ask any I-W-O-C man, he'll say there's nothing we can do" "It's the politics of rumors, it's the HANGMAN'S blues" Sarah: Be sure to let Eric Gjovaag know about your web page, so he can add your URL to his mega-list. 'Twixt: While the FF does not allude to a 'Tweener visit by Dorothy, the HACC does record one such instance, in Jeff Barstock _Song of Oz_. This book is unusual in that there are no chapters, or else there is just one big long chapter. As I recall, it was a rather strange book. HACC-note: There are some who say (or said) that the five books published by Random House are set between _Ozma_ and _DotWiz_. See my web page for my long-winded yet brilliant explanation as to why this cannot be the case. In essence, Dorothy was not in Kansas at this time, so any books which are supposed to take place at this time will be bumped forward one notch if Dorothy leaves from or returns to Kansas. She was in Australia, or possibly on a ship home. March Laumer has written a story that, in part, describes Dorothy's journey home from Australia in the time between _Ozma_ and _DotWiz_. "Mommy, Where do baby Nomes come from?" I submit there may not BE any. Nomes are spirit creatures, probably created at or near the beginning of the world, and there are no new ones. Kiex: I must have got the Emeralds mixed up. Ozma's nature has no relation to the HACC. The HACC is merely a continuous (although not necesarily contiguous) chain of events. It makes no judgements about what roles people play, although HACC theory could, if necessary, make explanations for the use (or lack thereof) of the Magic Belt. I will, however, accept that explanation for _DotWiz_. Maybe Ozma was interested in letting Dorothy have an adventure. This is academic, though, since current HACC theory has it that the Belt was low on power from the end of _Emerald City_ to the beginning of the Thompson administration, and Dorothy was not very active during that time. Note that Ozma actually commented about this quandary in _Road_. Gordon: True, the coutroom scene, on it's own terms, was hilarious. I especially liked the Tin Woodmans song defending Eureka about demanding meat. Not the best defense, in all likelihood. The concentric shell theory is intriguing. Certainly, the Mangaboos had their own suns, although Voe had no discernible light source. Also, Baum never made mention of any "roofs". We'd need to figure out an explanation for the sevens underground kingdoms in _Yellow Knight_, though. MAny spaces: My little experiment did not work. If the double spacing persists, I'll write my next post in Notepad. I have a MOPPET to explain this, but I'll gather data for a while before I try tinkering with anything. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:02:53 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Content-disposition: inline Jeremy: >So the reason Jim wasn't allowed to stay in Oz (or didn't, at least) was because of his droppings . . ? Interesting theory.< Phyllis theorized that that was why Baum's Emerald City had no horses at all--'cause to him a nice clean city free of the stuff would truly be Paradise. In Oz, animals probably become intelligent enough to have better manners than Real World animals. However, that's a good reason for Thompson to locate the palace garden near the stables in "Kabumpo in Oz." :-) Gordon: It *is* infuriating and/or saddening to be laughed at when hurt. Pouring salt in the wounds, so to speak. My only defense for Ozma's behaviour is her youth at the time. And as Tip, she wasn't above pulling the occasional pig's tail. Thanks for your positive review of the underground adventure in SBM. I'll also add The Peace Corps only does their improvements because the Mangaboos agree to them. :-) Dave: Is your Mom doing better, now? Men as enthusiastic fans of female vocalists is simply the flip version of gals being enthusiastic fans of male ones. I once had a boyfriend who liked cars and collecting Motown records--especially the Supremes and other female vocalists. While I don't condone kinkiness, I do feel sorry for guys who are labeled wimps because they are, or prefer to be, kind, gentle, loving, and creative. After all, there 's nothing in the Bible that forbids men to knit, crochet, paint, dance, draw, write, embroider, needlepoint, etc, etc. And it encourages *everyone* to be kind and loving. A creative person can congratulate himself on being stronger than a destructive one--creating is *much* more difficult! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:47:51 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy odds and ends Blue+yellow=white; Yes that's right. In the additive palate, yellow is a secondary color made by adding red to green. With the addition of blue, all three primary colors are present. Baum and cats; Yeah, I think it is fairly likely that he found the little savages irritating. Seems to have preferred dogs, anyway. Somehow, though, you'll notice that while Bungle and Eureka may be obnoxious as all get out, they don't seem to get in the way, or spoil other character's set plans one quarter as often as Toto does. (Dorothy would have been safely in the storm cellar--except for Toto. She would have been aboard the balloon, headed home with the Wiz--except for Toto, etc.) Friends of Dorothy; Well, I'm neither gay nor male, so I'll have to judge on general observation. In the first place, the attraction isn't "Dorothy" it's Judy. Dorothy, however, is the role which has defined Judy Garland from the beginning, and for all time. Although Garland played many roles on screen, none of them, not even Andy Hardy(?)'s girlfriend -- who she portrayed repeatedly -- have stuck in the mind as deffining Garland the way Dorothy Gale of Kansas has. In the popular mind, Judy Garland will always be the girl in the blue gingham singing "Over the Rainbow". That the character of Dorothy happened to be the main character of a story which resonates so solidly as myth as The Wizard of Oz does not make this any more difficult to understand. If you say "Jenny Jenkins" (or whatever Hardy's girlfriend's name was) your listener is just as likely to ask "Who?", whereas if you say "Dorothy" everyone knows who you mean. As to why the facination with Garland, that is a lot easier to figure out. The attraction is largely fueled by the bathos and melodrama of the Judy Garland legend. Garland, perhaps more than any other artist of the century manages to personify the image of the innocent adolescent of enormous talent and great personal tragedy. Here is the brilliant, but not spectacularly beautiful, artist who is brutally subjected to surgery, semi-starvation and drugs to unmake what she is and bring her into conformance with what others decide she ought to be -- and still manages to shine like the sun -- is used and discarded by the studios once she begins to grow up, is picked up and dropped, is in and out of treatment centers, and so on, and so on. And, ultimately, dies far too young. She is nothing if not "different". And an irresistable image to other adolescents who, suddenly discover themselves to be "different" (or have finally gotten an understanding of just what their always suspected difference actually is) and have already been given every reason to believe that anyone who is "different" must suffer for it, it is little wonder that she has been elevated to the stature of an icon. Undocumented visits to Oz; Actually, I think a few of these might be very likely. But there was no reason for Baum to have written of them, because they would hardly have been adventures. Consider. Ozma checks up on Dorothy every Saturday. There must have been a few Saturdays (probably not many) when Dorothy had finished her chores and Aunt Em did not need her for any particular project. Why shouldn't she spend the day with Ozma, and be home in time for supper? (Or by bedtime?) At some point Dorothy might have grumbled that it was too bad she had to wait for Saturday, since there had been a perfect opportunity last Tuesday, but there was no way to let Ozma know of it, which brought about the change in schedule. Only, by then, Dorothy was so in the habit of thinking that Saturday was Ozma's day, and the immediacy of the events underground so distracting, that it took her until the Dragonets' cave before she remembered that Ozma was checking in on her EVERY day, and she might have been in the Emerald City days ago if she had only remembered it! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 00:51:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 DOTWIZ: Eureka's trial strikes me as stagey, too. It would certainly play better than it reads. As for whether this book was meant to any degree to be staged, we'll probably never know. But there are very strong theatrical elements. On t'other hand, no real plot--which kinda spoils it as much onstage as in the book. Maybe Baum started off with one thing in mind and then had to switch. Dunno. RYAN/ATTICUS:My first of GLINDA also lacks the nose. So does a color plate copy that dates somewhere between 1927 and 1935. My guess is that someone caught the goof and finally bothered to correct it by adding a (rather long) nose. DISNEY: I was quite pleased to learn that Disney extends marital benefits to gay partners. Disney is not by any means an ideal corporation, but this promotes hope for equality. Yay, Mickey Mouse! As for the fundamentalists, it's infuriating but predictable. I hosted an AIDS Information Program at my school a coupla years back and really had to do some fancy footwork to get around my principal's fears of lashback. He reminded me (none too gently) that we're in the heart of the Bible Belt. I reminded him (equally if not more forcefully) that being in the Bible Belt didn't protect our kids against AIDS. I ended up with a helluva program for over 1200 kids, but I had to fight for it and even had to give parents advance warning that the thing was being offered AND an alternative program if they didn't want their kiddo to go to the one the AIDS Foundation had set up. Sheesh. The "If we ignore it long enough maybe it'll go away" or the "It can't happen in *MY* family" mentality is terrifying, isn't it. Hatemongering in any form is wrong. Maybe that's why I love Oz so much; protagonists usually get into trouble only when they enter a new place..maybe 85% of the time. Rarely does anyone go out looking to make trouble and, when they do, they're kinda funny, like Ruggedo and Queen Ann or the effete Wutz, or totally inept (Kiki Aru). I can't think of a single time there's been hatemongering in an Oz book--not even with the Whimsies, Growleywogs, or Mimics who are certainly evil in their lust for power but, somehow, not hateful. And I wonder why I don't consider them hateful. 'Cause they are ludicrous? Food for thought, but I'll stop now as I suspect I may be the only one interested in this thread. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:32:48 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Atticus: >to proceed to less psychoanalytical reasons, gays tend to flock to musical >"divas" such as barbra streisand, madonna, etc. personally, my musical >tastes tend towards techno and industrial, but many gays worship female >singers, and judy garland was certainly one of them. this is hard for me >to explain, but it might have something to do with the image of woman >vocalists as bold and powerful, something gays wish to emulate after >centuries of persecution. That is interesting. As a straight suburbanite with a great many gay friends (I'm not only a member of IWOC, but a semipro opera singer), I've often been intrigued by the phenomenon. Just recently, I was wondering why there seems to be no gay cult of Mira Furlan (the exiled Yugoslavian actress who plays Delenn on "Babylon 5"), who seemed to me to fit the profile exquisitely. But for some reason I classify all those women mentally as actresses, not as singers (Dietrich, Midler, and Callas, too), and Mira Furlan isn't a singer (although I understand she does a mean Ronnie Spector at parties). At the same time (and I venture to say this only because you are very tentative yourself), your explanation doesn't quite ring true to me, perhaps because so many of the gay men I know are in show business and therefore know what life is like for all but a handful of professional singers -- "bold and powerful" ain't generally the words, especially for women. (Singer-songwriters are something else again, but apart from Piaf, women in that line -- e.g., Suzanne Vega, who we saw at a TV taping Monday -- are a pretty darn recent phenomenon.) You're in a better position to judge than I am, but it just doesn't feel like the right answer, somehow. I _think_, based on my own observations, that there is some necessary "lost innocence" factor. Tyler Jones wrote about his double spacing. You mention a "DOS editor". Do you mean you're creating a file off-line and uploading it as though typed to CompuServe? That could be the explanation. DOS ends each line of a text file with a CR (Carriage Return, which on a printer goes back to column 1) and a LF (Line Feed, which on a printer skips down one line), so that files can be listed on a printer by a dumb copy program. But when you are typing a message on CompuServe, all you type is the CR. It would be (for the sake of various other equipment) entirely possible that CompuServe may treat an incoming typed "LF" as though it were also a CR. If you are A) creating the file off-line and B) uploading the file by using your program to fake typing it, try to use a CompuServe feature (there should be one) to accept your message via a formal file-transfer operation instead. If you are already doing so, are you sure you have made it clear to CompuServe that you are using a DOS-flavor system. (UNIX, for example, saves disk space by using a LF alone, which means that a UNIX print program is required to watch for LF bytes and insert the matching CR.) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:42:38 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Scott Hutchins: "Fairy" applies to both male and female. // Apologies for mis-naming (result of being acquainted with several Hutchinsons!) -- will try to remember. Steve Teller: Teaching "Alice" to junior high youngsters sounds like fun. How are they reacting to it? Kieran F. Miller: You are right that there's a good deal of overlap in the discussions of "Dorothy and the Wizard" and "Zixi," but it's hard to avoid, since there's no way for people to know whether others are saying the same thing or not, and the task of compiling the Digest would be way too difficult if Dave Hardenbrook tried to eliminate overlaps. If over several Digests the comments on a particular topic seem to be circling round and repeating, you can reasonably ask people to drop the topic, but it's a good idea to develop some skim-and-skip skills for reading this sort of group-in-conversation sort of document. (Then again, as Robin Olderman pointed out, with Dave's normal Internet access restored, the Digests are going to be usually daily instead of every-other-day, and therefore shorter and easier to get through quickly.) For myself, longer comments in more depth generally strike me as more interesting to read than short bits of straight information. Robin Olderman: Nice point about RPT's skillful use of relief-moments in suspense-plots. // Some other mortals who've been to Oz: Notta Bit More and Jenny Jump. From outside the main line, RPT's Tompy Terry and David B. Perry. I checked on the Radio Plays, and you were right in seeing a connection between them and "Dorothy and the Wizard." The Radio Plays performances toured September 24-December 16, 1908, in the Midwest and East, so were probably written during 1908; "Dorothy and the Wizard" came out 1908, so was probably written during 1907. (And it occurred to me belatedly that what I said about the non-stage-like qualities of the book didn't really apply to film.) The show as performed did not include any "Dorothy and the Wizard" film, but slides of scenes from the book were shown during the intermission. And an adaptation of the book was filmed at some point (either filmed at the time, and left out because the film + live-theater-material combination was too long, or filmed two years later when Selig tried to recoup the Radio Play losses by packaging the filmed material as one-reel movies) -- at any rate, Selig's 1910 five one-reeler Oz films included a "Dorothy and the Wizard" reel. Gordon Birrell: Like you, I enjoyed the revisionist revisiting of "Dorothy and the Wizard" sites in Melody's "Disenchanted Princess." Parallel between Eureka's and Dorothy's knowledge of how to get out of their "trials" is interesting, but the difference that Eureka is conscious and Dorothy unconscious of having that knowledge undercuts it a good bit? Mixing yellow and blue light to get white vs. needing three primaries -- yellow is mixture of red and green, so all three are there (counter-intuitive, but there it is). Idea that Mangaboo country, Voe, Gargoyles, and maybe Braided Man's and dragon's levels could be surfaces of entire interior shells rather than individual cavities along one underground mountain is appealingly spectacular, but doesn't really fit with the "feel" of the descriptions. They don't sound big enough. There would have to be lots and lots of "mountains" to hold the various layers apart (and probably heavy-duty magic to keep the whole shebang from collapsing anyway), and there is no mention of other such mountains in view anywhere. And it would be hard to match up the geography of global-wide layers of these countries with the geographies encountered by other trips underground in the Oz books ("Tik-Tok," "Hungry Tiger," "Grampa," "Speedy," and assorted Nome spaces). Atticus: I don't know when the nose went back on, but my copy of "Glinda" (color plates, but not a first edition) also shows a noseless Scarecrow on p. 176. Jeremy Steadman: As for how gnomes are born if there aren't any females -- by magic? Or one could always assume that some of the gnomes are female, even though it isn't obvious to outsiders which is which. Some writers seem to have assumed that male gnomes are likely to fall in love with female sylphs (Baum seems to be doing some of that in "Tik-Tok" when Ruggedo wants Polychrome to marry him), and though they don't say specifically if there would be children, maybe they're assuming that the boys would be gnomes and the girls sylphs. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:58:43 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest fairylogue ps The relevant articles are "L. Frank Baum and the Radio-Plays" by Russell P. MacFall, "Bugle" #2, 1962 (and reprinted in the "Best of the Baum Bugle" collection covering that year) and "The Fairylogue and Radio Plays of L. Frank Baum" by Richard A. Mills, "Bugle" #3, 1970. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:22:50 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Books whose keywords include "oz" (fwd) A message from Amazon books, forwarded for your convenience: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 02:11:17 -0700 (PDT) From: eyes@amazon.com Subject: Books whose keywords include "oz" Hello from Amazon.com Books! As you requested, we are notifying you of new books matching the following criteria: keywords include "oz" The new books are listed at the end of this message. If you're interested in any of these books, you can order them online at http://www.amazon.com/ . Your most humble automated search agent, Eyes Amazon.com Books http://www.amazon.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Oz and Beyond : The Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum" by Michael O'Neal Riley List: $29.95 -- Our Price: $20.97 -- You Save: $8.98 (30%) Subjects: Baum, L. Frank; (Lyman Frank),; 1856-1919; Criticism and interpretation; Children's stories, American; 20th Century American Novel And Short Story; Juvenile Literature Publisher: Univ Pr of Kansas Binding: Hardcover Expected publication date: July 1997 ISBN: 070060832X URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=070060832X ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 08:10:13 -0700 From: MALCOLM D BARKER Subject: Oz Please note this web page "Holding the Wizard accountable" for information on the controversy surrounding LFB conference in Aberdeen this August: http://www.dickshovel.com/roeschbaum.html Peace, Malcolm ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 11:22:45 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 TYLER: >Which brings to me to yet another side-issue. People have commented that > >Baum did not like horses. Since Eureka and Bungle are of less than stellar > >reputation, I submit that he did not care too much for cats, either. of course not. he was a dog person. >We shall see if this paragraph, unlike the earlier ones, has > >the double-spacing. all the paragraphs did. >Belt in _Glinda_: > >Even if the Belt had not been able to raise the island, they could have > >transported themselves to the Emerald City or to shore, where they could > >have worked on the problem much better. my further thoughts on this... perhaps ozma figured it was best for dorothy and her to stay in the dome to supervise coo-ee-oh's actions, and she felt coo-ee-oh would best be dealt with in an unmagical way (witness unsuccessful magical attempts to reform ruggedo--the waters of oblivion, ad infinitum). SCOTT H.: >Ruth: So is there another name for a male of the fairy species besides >"fairy," which has a bit of a different connotation when applied to a >male, although Spryte's father is the fairy king in _The Legend of Zelda_ >and Krysta and Thumbelina have fairy boyfriends in _FernGully_ and >_Thumbelina_. good god, don't you think we know the difference between slang and regular usage of "fairy"? enough with the homosexual anxiety already! GEEZ!!! MELODY: > Out of the three gay guys (admittedly few) I've known, two have >said to me the words, "I envy you." One, an ex-supervisor, was a very >envious person--when one person in our office got flowers, he commented, >"Nobody ever gives me flowers." It was amazing how quickly he had forgotten >that he had recieved flowers only a week before. This was not an isolated >incident, folks, it was ongoing behavior. One day he wished aloud that he >was capable of having a baby, then uncomfortably retracted the statement >not long after. Apparently convinced the opposite sex had it better than he >did, he later came out of the closet. Not saying envy is *the* cause of >gayness, but it probably was in this case. Anger over mistreatment by the >opposite sex has been used to justify prejudice against the opposite sex, >too. And the third guy with gay leanings (he was trying to overcome them) >never openly expressed envy of me--he simply seemed to prefer feminine ways >over masculine. as you admit, you've had very limited experience with gay people. i'll just make some cursory comments... your ex-supervisor was envious, period. this "envy of females" or whatever it was could not have caused his homosexuality, and was really not caused by his homosexuality. it sounds like he just wanted attention. a lot of straight males are just as childish. the majority of gay people are not this way. generally, we are open-minded, creative, generous people, though as with the population-at-large, we have our share of jerks. we cannot be stereotyped or narrowly defined, PERIOD. most of us are a lot like you heterosexuals. i mean it. lastly, i've known some rather effeminate heterosexual males and some extremely masculine homosexual males. FINAL NOTE: geez! another post about the hanging man in the mgm movie. if i see another one of those, i'll hang MYSELF! * * * "Suffering does make us more sensitive until it crushes us completely." ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:57:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: oz digest this does work ive been to the sites its not someone collecting names for a list We apologize for the intrusion. Your name has been removed from our mailing list. HERE'S THE SITES YOU REQUESTED! GET RID OF THE UNWANTED E-MAIL!!! "Internet Spam Control Center" http://drsvcs.com/nospam/ -or- "No Junk E-mail" http://pages.ripco.com:8080/~glr/nojunk.html Good Luck In All Your Endeavors ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:08:19 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 > Hi, I know I'm new on this, but I gotta tell you, it may seem interesting for > many, but all this in depth discussion of Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (which > is annoyingly referred to as "DOTWIZ") and Queen Zixi's physical appearance > is BOOOOOORRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGG!!! De gustibus non est disputandum (pardon my bad Latin). Matters of taste are not open to dispute. Some of us like thesein depth discussions. In fact, that is what we are looking for. It is always possible to skip over parts of the digest that are uninteresting to you. > I for one would > sure like to hear more about other people's collections, but DO KEEP IT > BRIEF! > > Kieran F. Miller (Baringer@aol.com) > My collection is contained in two bookcases in the "Oz" room, as well as being spilled over the cabinets in the living room. It was started twenty years before I was born by my father. I have books, comics, art, videos, artifacts, programs from Oz conventions since 1966, and more miscellany than I can count. I once bought a copy of THE LAST EQYPTIAN for $.25, and I bought a NAVY ALPHABET for about $400.00. Is that brief enough? > I don't remember when the Fairylogues were, > but think it was a bit later -- will try to remember to check. > > Ruth Berman I believe they were c. 1907. > (one must admit that in the movie aunt em was > a real b****, and henry was definitely mentally absent) I would disagree. Clara Blandick's Aunt Em was a hard pressed farmwife who would have told off Miss Gulch but was too much of a "good Christian woman" to do so, while Charlie Grapewin's Uncle Henry was a very laid back commentator, who was able to disarm the threatening authority figure. > * * * > > > Anyhow, one of the old books I got is called "Ever New Stories for Children", > published by Reilly & Britton and illustrated by John R. Neill. This is probably CHILDRENS CTORIES THAT NEVER GROW OLD. I paid $75 for my copy from a bookstore in Chicato. > The book dealer had given me some wonderful discounts, the sweet man, > and threw this in for free. > > Sarah G Hadley > You have a nice book dealer. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 15:15:59 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-19-97 K.F. Miller: Perhaps you've subscribed to the wrong Digest?? Steve T.: Please try not to stray to far . . .your comments will be missed. Ruth: I second your format comments! And Tyler, your posts are still double-spaced. Melody: Computer wallpaper? Is it a screen-saver? And if so, where did you get it? I, too, love your Mother Dragon, gracing the June page of the 1997 Oz Club Calendar. Was the "Shameless, self-serving plug" comment thereon actually yours, or did Chris add it? ;-) Sarah: How many old Oz books ARE there in a bunch? :-) I envy you and your 1st editions. It sounds like you came across a really great source. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:19:39 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Ramblings: All this talk about the trial in _DotWiz_ got me thinking of the time when this was discussed before. Many people were of the opinion that, in and of itself, eating animals in Oz is not wrong. After all, there are instances of this in the Baum 14, and nobody does much about it. It is only this one time that much of a fuss was made. Many of us concluded that the reason for the difference was due to one of two factors: That the incident happened in a civilized area, or that the piglet was the pet of Ozma, and thus "special". The first theory has some parallels in _Magic_, and was also mentioned in Farmers non-HACC _Barnstormer_. Anyway, it reminded me of an episode of "The Simpsons". It was the episode where Homer goes back to college for Nucelar Phyics 101. As a prank, he and some other students kidnap a neighboring school's mascot, which happens to be a pig. Things go a little wrong, the pig becomes ill, and the Dean appears. Dean: "Gosh, guys. I've never expelled anyone before, but that pig had powerful friends." Richard Nixon: "Oh, you'll pay. Don't think you won't pay" Omby Amby: "Well, we've never had a trial for eating animals before, but that piglet had powerful friends" Wogglebug: (see Nixon) As an aside, this post was written using the Microsoft Exchange editor. We'll see if this ne does the double space thing too. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:16:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Dear Ozzy Digesters: I received the following email from Amazon Books. I believe this is the book that Ruth Berman mentioned a few posts ago. I thought I would pass this info along in case anyone wants to order this thru Amazon. It might save you a few bucks! The URL for online ordering is at the end of the post. Jim Whitcomb. "Oz and Beyond : The Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum" by Michael O'Neal Riley List: $29.95 -- Our Price: $20.97 -- You Save: $8.98 (30%) Subjects: Baum, L. Frank; (Lyman Frank),; 1856-1919; Criticism and interpretation; Children's stories, American; 20th Century American Novel And Short Story; Juvenile Literature Publisher: Univ Pr of Kansas Binding: Hardcover Expected publication date: July 1997 ISBN: 070060832X URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=070060832X ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 22:26:01 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Content-disposition: inline Steve: Were you referring to the Wizard "picture taken by the Royal Photographer"? Yes, that is a compelling pic of the Wiz. The problem seems to appear more in the color plates than Neill's B&W pics. The Wizard's face looks too red--but he worked outside as a a circus balloonist before they invented modern sunscreen. But the Wizard also looks like he's wearing lipstick, and I think men stopped painting and powdering by the Victorian era. (Would circus men of that era have painted their lips? Oh, it's tricky to give a man's lips a natural shade of pink without going over the line into the "lipstick look" in a drawing.) It *could* be related to faulty reproduction of Neill's art. One colorized "Elfquest" collection had that problem--the artist complained the reproductions came out much redder than the original colorized illos. On the other hand, Neill's color illo of Dorothy and Ozma in the Emerald City is wonderful. He put in some time and care drawing the folds in Ozma's gown. By the way, I hope you don't make 36 enemies and one ingrate. May the best and most Ozzy story win! :-) --- In the Mangaboo sequence again--Baum does specify that the colored suns sent colored rays darting in every direction, so SBM describes the colored suns as being like fiery glitterballs shooting rays unevenly in all directions--making shifting multicolored lighting on the ground possible. Steadily-burning colored lights could not do this. It would have been interesting to see how Baum might have rigged the Mangaboo suns in a stage play of DotWiz, eh, Robin? Modern theatres (or Disney) might do it in the form of a lasershow. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 14:02:52 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Melody (et. al.) wrote to me: >Is your Mom doing better, now? Yes, although she still is having a tough time...She feels overwhelmed by the number of symptoms she's experiencing, and we have to keep reminding her that all of them are perpetrated by one thing -- her underactive thyroid. I wish our doctor had told us before how important the thyroid was, and all this might have been prevented!!! "Why do I have to learn everything from hard experience? Why can't I just once learn something because someone was nice enough to tell me beforehand?" -- Rita Rudner Melody wrote: >While I don't condone kinkiness, I do >feel sorry for guys who are labeled wimps because they are, or prefer to >be, kind, gentle, loving, and creative. What's even worse is being gentle, loving, and creative and not being able to get anywhere with girls because they are so "conditioned" to be attracted to "machismo" types...A few years ago, I had a platonic relationship with a girl that I really wanted to become more, and she would always complain to me about the jerks she went out with and say, "I want a guy who is loving like you are, Dave; gentle like you are; sweet, sincere, and sensitive like you are, Dave!" "Then why won't you go out with *me*?" I'd naively ask. "You're not my type," she would reply. ON BAUM AND CATS: The world seems to be divided into those who say, like T.S. Eliot: "A cat is entitled to expect...evidences of respect"; and people like Rita Rudner who say: "I'm suspicious of a cat's motives...I see one looking at me and I think it's thinking to itself, 'If I could just jump on her head and ruin her life!'" Here's Dave's official list of notables who like cats vs. notables who like dogs: LIKES CATS: LIKES DOGS: Lewis Carroll L. Frank Baum Bill Clinton George Bush T.S. Eliot James Thurber Paula Poundstone Rita Rudner Enya Vangelis Jim Davis Charles Schulz "FRIENDS OF DOROTHY": I'm still very confused about what Dorothy has to do with homosexuals -- Can someone run it by me again??? BTW, FWIW, all of Mickey's movies in which he's romantic with Judy were *not* Andy Hardy films...Andy's heart belonged exclusively to Ann Rutherford. Just one more piece of useless trivia from someone who has clearly been watching too much Turner Classic Movies... :) Thanks again to everyone who contributed to help me keep the Digest financially solvent! :) When things a little more settled around here, I will send a personal note of thanks to everyone... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 22 - 23, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:08:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Kieran: As to over-lengthy prose--I can't claim to be an expert in brevity myself (as certain others on the Digest can attest), but I do think the discussions of DOTWIZ are interesting and not too rehashed (certain other topics we've discussed in these pages have been). But as I said, I am far from an expert. Singlar Spacing: Doubling does lengthen the post . . . Trumpet / Cornet: Hmm--John Kennedy says "...the two modern instruments are quite alike ..."--I gyess my problem is that my cornet was bought used in the first quarter of the century. It's made of some yellowish-plated metal but is significantly shorter than all trumpets I've ever seen and is conical--oh well, it's not important. Musically yours, Jeremy AND KIEX!! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:55:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "W. H. Baldwin" Subject: Oz Digest 6/17 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Shaggy Man, How exactly can one wend one's way to Project Gutenberg? I have tried a couple of times to do this, but don't seem to be very good at searches. Please share (pardon the buzzword)! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:57:37 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 (Animals as Edibles and other things) While there is no mention of this by Baum (at least that I know of), I prefer to handle this subject using the same distinction that C.S.Lewis used in his _Chronicles of Narnia_. The talking beasts are sentient and are the moral equal (in some cases superior) to other sentient beings. The others are not and may be used as a food source. Also, Ken (et.al.), while I understand your irritation, it doesn't seem to me that the vast majority of digesters have an anti-gay bias. Don't let a few bigots spoil this for you. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:37:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 Gnomes and Sex: Just thought I'd share this piece of trivia:When Eric Shanower did a slide presentation on gnomes for convention, he got what was probably his biggest response when he flashed a picture of a rubber-ball- roly-poly Ruggedo on the screen and commented, "...and no one knows how gnomes are born because they are, apparently, sexless." Don't anyone tell *me* that Eric has no sense of humor. That line got one of the biggest laughs I've ever heard . I wore my very biggest Mickey Mouse earrings to work today. I am pleased to report that several people took the opportunity of switching a "nice earrings" comment into a pro-Disney comment. No, I didn't prompt them. My customers are usually very cool people. Garland, Judy: John Fricke has a concise way of explaining the Judy phenomenon, whether applying to homosexuals or heterosexuals. He says: "She makes you feel good. That's all." He may be right. Her talent was *SO* spectacular, so special, that she simply lit up and took her audience right with her; we lit up with her. Gays: I don't know if the DIGEST is a good forum for a general discusion of "why" for anything dealing with homosexuality. We may, all too easily, hurt each other, even if we don't mean to. None of the Ozmaniacs that I know and love have any overt homophobia. That's Ozzy. Open, warm, caring, tolerant...all that...it's Ozzy. Discussing the whys and wherefores of sexual preference may not be Ozzy. Not in this faceless forum. I do NOT mind digressions from Oz. Heck, I savor many of them and would miss them greatly if we were straightjacketed into "Oz only" discussions. But... Statistical studies: Yup. Easy to make numbers support a theory. Ruth: I knew I'd forget some mortals. Thanks for filling in the blanks. And, thanks for checking the Fairylogue connection. There may really be a connection between scripting and fairytale book writing for DOTWIZ. Cool! Bob Spark: Marvelous tag on your post! I vote "yes." (Prob'ly 'cause I'm a woman...) Bear: If you want to have a discussion about "gifted" students, e-mail me privately. But I'll probably bore you. In brief, there certainly are some genuinely "gifted" students out there. It's also true, however, that many "non-gifted" kids are identified as "gifted" for reasons like appearance, clarity of speech, etc. And many very, very bright kids are overlooked. But please don't dismiss the whole concept with a few fast comments. I, too, grew up in "the good old days" and know what successive generations are missing. On the other hand, if I'd had a bone tumor in the '50s and not in the '60s, I'd've lost my left arm. I always remember that when I hearken back to "the good old days." I still have both arms, and the left one works almost as well as the right. In a perfect world, we could retain and expect others to retain the old values AND reap the techno-scientific new benefits, too. Sigh. And now, I get to set up the Winkie Program. Gotta get it run off this week. Bye! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:56:35 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 KEN COPE: >I hope David Shanower's story more than irritated you. I hope you >figure out some way to deal with it, because the sooner you do, the >sooner you'll have a clue about the kind of world the rest of us are >living in. what else can i say except: wow. your posting was damn eloquent (as usual). TYLER: >I must point out that both stories support my statement that the Belt was > >NOT made by all-powerful beings, thus the belt may not always be > >all-powerful. the key word being "may." might i also add that _time-traveling_ was both written and published before _kaliko_, giving my written account, perhaps, some slight edge... _GLINDA_, THE SCARECROW, AND THE MYSTERY OF THE MISSING NOSE thanks to robin and (wasn't it?) ruth for confirming the missing nose. i wonder whether neill was just negligent or if the printer messed up somehow. i suppose either scenario is equally possible. in either case, when it came to the scarecrow's nose, someone blew it. ha ha ha. best regards to all, atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary . . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:46:20 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 about Oz and tolerance: I've always believed that the Oz books teach tolerance, and hold pluralism as aprimary value. In fact, they often go to the extreme of glorifying individuality and uniqueness. The "bad guys" in the Oz books are usually leaders of a tribe or group that wishes to assimilate all others, who can't understand why others would wish to be different than the group and sek to eliminate these differences. A second category of characters, not strictly "bad guys" but generally disliked, like the glass cat, are unique but precisely because of their distinctions feel that they are superior to others and their exsistence seems to circle around their arrogance. The best characters are those who are not only unique, but able to accept and love the uniqueness of others. Robin: I thought your comments VERY interesting. my collection: don't know if this interests everyone, but once in a while I like taking stock of my collection: it is now up to more than four shelves, I am relatively sure I have all of the FF by now (the very last ones were recent accquisitions and are being mailed to me). I focus on books, but I also have some videos, comic books, records . The highlights of my collection are probably some of the foreign editions, especially the many books in Russian, German and Hebrew. Some of my favourites: a Thai edition of "the Wizard Edition", to Polish editions of "The Magic of Oz" and "Ozma of Oz" with unique full color illustrations, some animation cells from the Oz Kids. I would like to own copies of "The Wizard of Oz" in as many languages as possible (i'm up to 15), especially if they have interesting illustrations. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:39:42 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 Some recent digest observations: Re: _Dorothy & the Wizard_ I have to admit that this was my favorite Oz book when I was young (younger?). Anyway, I think alot of the problems with the "darkness" of this book has to do with the Neill color plates, which I didn't see until later. Many of the color plates in this book are, well, frightening. As has been stated before, the ending of this book leaves a little to be desired--but the same can be said of such books as _Patchwork Girl_ and _Rinkitink_. If someone wants to read a good book like _Rinkitink_ that isn't ruined by a "god from the heavens" plot device, I suggest you read _Sky Island_. Re: Baum vs Other Oz Authors: I am one of those who think the 14 Oz books by Baum are the best 14 in the series. Many of the Thompson titles are very good, too. Neill's books are, IMHO, poor. Snow's and Cosgrove's are okay. McGraw/Wagner's is probably the best written of the FF, but lacks "Ozzyness". Re: Kieran F. Miller's wanting to know about collections: I have the FF, and except for about 5 titles they're 1st editions. Most didn't cost me all that much, because I started collecting in the late 60's when prices were still reasonable. The only problem was, being about 12-13 years old in the late 60's, I didn't have any money! So I had to pass on "expensive" books in the $20.00 range. Some of the finest Baum books in my collection (Ozma, Road, Lost Princess, Tin Woodman, Sky Island) I didn't pay more than $5.00 for... OTOH, Steve Teller mentioned his copy of _Last Egyptian_ cost .25; mine cost $100.00. But I do have a 1st of Kabumpo signed by Thompson that cost me $3.50. I'm missing a 1st of _Wizard_, which I'm still looking for. And of course I'm missing the true 1st of _Land_, which I understand is almost impossible to find. I guess the trouble is as we get older our toys get more expensive. Re: Bear's "People will tell you that there is no such thing as "the good >old days." They are wrong." Well, I have to disagree. There has been and will always be problems. But right now there's no war, no divided Europe, economy's strong, etc. Of course, for individuals there will always be happier times than the present, but I think, generally speaking, that these are the good old days. Re: Ken Cope's "I hope [Eric] Shanower's story more than irritated you. I hope you figure out some way to deal with it...." I met Eric Shanower at a South Winkie convention several years ago (he even used my slide projector) and I found him to be a very enjoyable and friendly person. Speaking as a confirmed hetrosexual, I couldn't care less what someone's sexual orientation is, because I've met nice people of all persuasions. Perhaps it was the mention of sexual orientation--any sexual orientation--in an Oz story that sparked the original "irritation" comment. I don't know. Re: "He's a 'Friend of Dorothy'" I read somewhere that this is slang, meaning that you're gay. This is obviously a reference to the Garland Dorothy. Speaking of Garland, there's a very interesting clip in the MGM documentary "When the Lion Roars" at the end of the "I'm An Indian Too" number that was to be used in the never-produced Garland "Annie Get Your Gun". Note Garland's demeanor when the director yells "cut". It's only for a split second (because the film ends) but the sudden transformation between singing/dancing-- then exhaustion/disgust speaks volumes about her problems at the time. Re: Steve Teller having read "100 or so Oz books other than the FF" What do you consider the 5-6 best? Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 19:22:35 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 Content-disposition: inline Richard Randolph: My wallpaper is just wallpaper--my understanding is that a true screensaver has to change constantly. But it looks nice when Windows 95 has booted up. Especially to the sound clip: "I----AM----OZ------THE GREAT AND POWERFUL! (Yes, the package has sound clips, too.) The wallpaper and soundclips are sold by Sound Source Unlimited, Inc., 2985 E. Hlllcrest Dr., Suite A, Westlake Village, CA 91362. Hope the company still exists so you can get a copy! Perhaps they're even selling an update with moving movie clips >I, too, love your Mother Dragon, gracing the June page of the 1997 Oz Club Calendar. Was the "Shameless, self-serving plug" comment thereon actually yours, or did Chris add it? ;-)< It was mine, all right, but it was supposed to be a private joke for Chris Dulabone. He either forgot to remove it, or didn't see my note that he was supposed to remove it. Ooops! : -+ Well, what can I say? It IS a shameless self-serving plug. :-) Dave: Maybe that platonic girlfriend wanted a nice guy who was into something besides computers and Oz books. Or maybe you're the wrong religion, nationality, etc. You ought to even up the score (get paid by the word) and submit that painfully funny anecdote to Readers Digest. :-) Almost as painfully funny as the boyfriend who told *me* "Friends don't make good marriage mates." :-P Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:29:59 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline General: I once saw (or heard, or read) a comment that all things are intertwined and it is impossible to ignore one thing while discussing another, or something like that. IIRC, the actual quote sounded much better. In spite of that, it does seem that we are straying a bit from the Yellow Brick Road. While some digression is inevitable and not necessarily a bad thing, we should strive to "stay on target", like the guy said in "Star Wars". The fact that he was destroyed soon after should not deter us. Double Spaces: GARRR!!! It's still happening! One last method: I'll copy and paste the file into the WinCIM editor. If that doesn't work, I'll think of something else. John: That is exactly the theory I came up with. I have not tested it yet, though. Ruth: In several fantasy worlds, females of non-human species are sometime kept out of sight from "outsiders". Therefore, Dorothy or whoever could wander around the Nome Kingdom and never see any women, even though there may be thousands. Exchange: Hmmmm, using Exchange (available only at work) seems not to have the double space, although I obviously went over the limit on line length. Dave: Oy, don't get me started! Several women: Why can't my boyfriend be more like you? Tyler: (groans internally and bangs head against wall) Note: This message was created in the DOS editor, then copied to the clipboard with NOTEPAD and pasted into the CompuServe editor. Tests on text files created with DOS, NOTEPAD and WinCIM show that all three apps generate a Line Feed and a Carriage Return. This last paragraph was written in the WinCIM window. My next step will be to create the text file, then delete all Line Feeds, or maybe delete all carriage returns. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:36:22 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 6/20-21 Digest, Robin Olderman says, <...but I'll stop now as I suspect I may be the only one interested in this thread.> Not so, my friend; I find it interesting and Ozzy too. And Bear, I too remember when we were less concerned about locking our doors, being car-jacked, killed at the teller machine, etc. It was not a golden age, but certainly was more civil and civilized than now. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:58:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 Hello everyone! Last night I started thinking about the possibilities for an Oz Tarot deck. Do you guys know if such a thing exists, and if not, would you please list who or what you think should represent each card (I'm not sure about many of them yet, but I think that Scraps is the Fool, The Wizard is the Magician, the Scarecrow is the Heirophant and the Lion is Strength). Tyler - I will. Dick - To me, there are five or more in 'a bunch'. I got eight the first time around (not including the free Ever New Stories), and got six more after trading some dupes. Now I have lots of lovely, lovely books and an incredible lack of money. ;-) The source I came across was simple....a local collector, with many first eds, sold a good deal of her collection (fifty books at least), including first eds, R&L post-1936s, popular editions, etc. The book dealer had earlier told me to get in touch with her, and I never had, but he called me up to come and look over the astounding amount of books she had sold back to him (he found many of them for her). Hence, one big collection went to make at least one more medium-sized one! BTW, I'll be sure to get some digital camera photos of my books for the webpage...getting things isn't very fun 'less you can share them with others. Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:27:08 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 Does anyone know the Saturday Winkie schedule? I can usually only come down for the day, and unlike some others I enjoy the auction and look forward to making my annual "donations" to the club. Sarah: To verify your first editions, use your Bibliographia Oziana. If you do not yet have the Oz collector's bible yet, as soon as you finish this digest you should go straight to the Club's website and order one! No serious collector or beginner should try collecting Oz books without it. Some of the best bargains I have found have been from dealers who do not have the "BibOz", and, among other things, have assumes that ANY black and white book must be a reprint. Ever New Stories for Children was not written by Baum. It is desirable primarily for the colorful and plentiful Neill illustrations. There is a second book uniform to it called Children's Stories That Never Grow Old. In nice condition it is worth a bit, and your dealer was quite generous to give it to you. Care to share his/her name with us? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:37:56 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 D > Steven >I am teaching a two-week course to gifted junior high school > students on > "Aspects of Alice." None of them had read the two Alice books. > > "Gifted" at what? TV watching? Junk literature reading? This is one of > the saddest things I have ever heard, in the literary vein. Sigh. > These are intelligent, fairly well-read students; it happens that the Alice books have not been part of their past. Many of them had seen the Disney movie. Most have been able to discuss the workings of Carroll's imagination well. Intelligence is not a function of having read the classics. However, intelligent people are probably better able to read and appreciate them if given the opportunity. Over 30 years of teaching college I have learned not to be surprized at students' ignorance. What counts is the ability and willingness to learn. These students have it. > Steven - Rather than argue with your out-of-date views of crime I would > challenge you to consider what has been found out about persons with > behavior disorders. And now back to Oz..... > Much has been found out, but that does not mean that it is not better to try to prevent crime than to find more horrible ways to punish it. The matter is not a simple "one solution fits all" situation. Some people have behavior disorders. How shall we deal with them? Do you have an answer? Humanity has been seeking one for over 3000 years. > End of growl, Bear (:<) > > > What are these Gutenberg Baum books you were talking about? Are they still > in print? How can I get them? > > -- Craig Noble > Project Gutenberg is an attempt to make many of the great books available in electronic form on line: "Fine Literature Digitally Republished." Its homepage is and a list of title available is at . > From: Ruth Berman > > Steve Teller: Teaching "Alice" to junior high youngsters sounds like fun. > How are they reacting to it? > Most of them are enjoying it. This week they are going to try writing their Alice tales. Some of the boys have chosen Bill the Lizard as their favorite character. I am planning to show them the 1960 Lou Bunin Puppet Animation version of ALICE IN WONDERLAND, which is a contrast to the Disney version that came out at the same time. Unfortuately, the 1933 film with Charlotte Henry (and W.C. Fields as Humpty Dumpty) is not on videotape > From: Gili Bar-Hillel I'll add my welcome back, Gili, > "Oz and Beyond : The Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum" > > by > > Michael O'Neal Riley Michael Reilly was a speaker at the Ozmopolitan Convention and may attend the Winkie Conference in less than 3 weeks. The publication date has been pushed back to August. Atticus: Please don't hang yourself over people's ignorance. It is endemic to the species. Dick: My greatest straying will be July 4-16 when I will be going to California for Winkies and some long train rides. Melody: Yes, it is the picture taken by the royal photographer I had mounted. But Neill should not be blamed for the color in DOTWIZ. He did not do the color, did he? Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:43:32 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 Steve: Perhaps you, or someone else who has seen the Shirley Temple Land of Oz can tell me what Norman Leavitt's "Repairman" character had to do with it? Everything that was inside about my novel is avialble, if obscure, except that I do reference all of my previous work, which is unavailable, but I inform the reader of everything I want them to know that isn't in a book by an author of the canon, which you didn't seem to think I was doing. Let's see, I've been in Wisconsin (twice), Illinois (thrice), Indiana (my home state), Kentucky (four times), Ohio (multiple times), Pennsylvania (four times), New Jersey (thrice), Georgia, and Tennessee (twice--through), that makes nine states that I've been to so far. My family doesn't travel much. BTW, Bob Up could not have grown up to be homosexual because he never left Oz, and thus did not grow up. I was surprised whern I read that in Who's Who, but I checked it, and he does. Perhaps I'm not the only person this did not click with. And it says Notta Bit More acted as his guardian and he became best friends with button Bright because the little boy liked to hear his stories. It also said Notta took charge of his education, which my well have involved ebrolling him at the Wogglebug College of Art and Athletic Perfection. I also got that tape of _Oz University_. In that film, there is an uncredcited cast composed entirely of women: "The Freshman Women," they are billed. It is told entirely in verse on intertitles. It is silent but in two-strip technicolor. The basic plot is that the Wizard of Oz, seated on the throne, looks in on the University of Michigan to find that students are complaining about how lousy a school they are attending, so Dorothy suggests he bring them to Oz. Ojo acts as his servant. As the students are brought to Oz one by one, they are transformed into the Scarecrow, Nick Chopper, Jinjur, Tik-Tok, the cowardly Lion, Betsy Bobbin, Old Mombi, Jack Pumpkinhead, Scraps, the Shaggy Man, and a Flutterbudget. They are ushered in with a big celebration and party with Glinda's girl guards. After the festivities end, they attend a lecture by Professor Wogglebug, who gives them a blue book exam. Realizing that Oz University is no better than the U of M, they asked to be sent home and returned to their proper states, which is done. So, Aaron, you had your Hebrew signature on there? I was wondering what that was. On pine it looks like a bunch of characters scattered around. Ruth: _The Fairylogue and Radio-Plays_ were made in 1908, prior to Tik-Tok. Justin Schiller says he bought all that remained of the show, and the films had apparently disintegrated. He didn't say how he knew that for certain, if he got the films in the cans and they were unusable or something. Tyler: It's intersting that many have pointed out Baum's love of having birds in the garden made him dislike cats, which was reflected in his books. However, he had a cat, and one of the sons (I can't remember which) threw it out the second story window, although uninjured. Maud then held the son by the ankles out the window, attracting the attention of the neighbors, as a punishment, making him think he would be dropped. At the convention Jane mentioned some pseudonymous Neill art that depicted a similar scene. Melody: I meant to mention that at the start of the month, but I forgot to. I liked your January art to, but I didn't get the calendar until February. I wish I had bought the 1998 calendar at the convention. I don't think there is any indication who's sibling or which sibling Dorothy's mother is. We just know it is one of the two. I assumed since MGM had the rights to the play (where they picked up "Gale," that this was revealed in the play, and thus Dorothy would be the daughter of Henry's brother. Hnce that both are named Gale. I wonder how a reprint of _Father Goose: His Book_ would do. It would either be plastered with disclaimers or heavily censored. I can't imagine someone today publishing a book of poetry with lines like "There was a little nigger boy who hadn't any collar..." Not only have I been falsely called "fag," et al. I have also been falsely called "nigger," by a guy named Michael Jackson (not THE Michael Jackson, but he is black). This, I guess, is akin to the scene in Quentin Tarantino's _Pulp Fiction_ in which Jules (Samuel L. Jackson) is on the phone with Marcellus Wallace (Ving Rhames) and referes to Vincent (Travolta) and Jimmy (Tarantino) as "niggers." Jeremy and Kiex: I presume there are female nomes, but that nomes do not respect their women. They don't seem like the kind who would, though I doubt if they are as bad as the Ferengi. I don't particularly like my last name (I just think it sounds incredibly ugly). My mother's maiden name is "Paynton," which is a little better, but I don't use it or anything. I'll be reading DOTWIZ tomorrow. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 14:23:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE "GOOD OLD DAYS": In "The good old days" (i.e. my youth), there were NO personal computers, NO Internet, NO new Oz books, and NO possibility of my getting through the day without ten people calling me "Cosmo Gremlin"...Don't talk to *ME* about the "good old days"! :) GET _ALICE_ BACK INTO OUR CLASSROOMS!: Bear wrote: > Steven >I am teaching a two-week course to gifted junior high school > students on > "Aspects of Alice." None of them had read the two Alice books. > > "Gifted" at what? TV watching? Junk literature reading? This is one of > the saddest things I have ever heard, in the literary vein. Sigh. The problem is, I don't think parents are taking the time to introduce quality literature to their children...Thank heaven we have teachers like Steven who are! Steve wrote: >Unfortuately, the 1933 film with Charlotte Henry (and W.C. Fields as >Humpty Dumpty) is not on videotape Heaven knows why...They used to show it periodially on my local TV station's Saturday children's film festival, and I'd love to see it again...For some reason, Paramount seems to be the studio most conservative about releasing their classic films on video...I don't know why...They're not releasing their films in the theatres or on TV either, so what are they gaining? Have you considered showing your students the 1970's British version with Fiona Fullerton and Peter Sellars (as the March Hare)? I've always had a soft spot for that one. I have difficulty recommending the recent TV "all star cast" one becuase of all that hippikaloric in it about the Jabberwock terrorizing Wonderland. Hmmm...Maybe tomorrow I'll have something Ozzy to say... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 24, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:39:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 Magic Belt Debate: If, as several Digesters (sorry) have pointed out, the Belt was low on power from _EC_ to _Glinda_, _Dotwiz_ doesn't even count; I'm confused why the Belt being low during this period (EC to Thompson, I mean) makes any difference. Of course, I get confused all too easily anyway . . . JOdel (sorry for using screen name again; can't remember real name & you didn't sign it!): Thanks for your support! As one who definitely prefers cats, I'm glad to hear dogs haven't completely taken over everyone else's preferences yet :-) Eating a pig of oneself: Why does it seem "worse" that the piglet in DOTWIZ is eaten when many animals in Oz must have been eaten up to that point in Oz? The same reason as if someone had (horrors of horrors!) killed the Cowardly Lion or Toto for the same end. Why, one might ask--if it's just meat? Well, it's meat that was the body of one of our Oz friends (albeit less so than the afore-mentioned non-humanoid characters). I could rant on, but think I've said the essence of what I meant to say. Tyler: I think you've kicked the problem (without spacing out!). Cats & People: It seems to me that more literary / author types seem to prefer cats to dogs -- and that more of the kind of people I'm no longer allowed to distinguish from others prefer dogs. (Sorry, Bear, but I would guess you like dogs better, right?) Dave: Are we still every-other-day here? That's okay; I'd rather not have to download, but I can and will if necessary. Anyway, until next time, KIEX and jeremy, partners in something P.S.: jeremy: I still wish you'd let me capitalize my own name! KIEX: Sorry; terms of our alliance--I let you use my name to sign off with, you put mine in all caps and yours in all lowercase . . . jeremy: Yes, but it's still not fair. . . . No! Don't hit me with that! I need that keyboard! AAAHHHHH! KIEX: Little did he know, I have a backup keyboard in the other room. Now I can rewrite his entire response. Hmmm--wonder what that clicking on that "Send" box does . . . ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 16:10:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Notes I just wanted to add two thoughts before the discussion of _DotWiz_ ends: -- On rereading _D&W_ I noted how the escape from the Gargoyles (using the wings stolen from unsuspecting Gargoyles) paralleled the escape with the Gump in OZMA. No Powder of Life--but the Gargoyle wings are already alive in their own right. -- Contrary to what some Digesters have been saying (I think), it doesn't sound like Dorothy has made any other trips between _Ozma_ and _D&W_, judging by what the characters say; so I see no reason for Ozma to have changed the time she checks in on Dorothy. As I said before, I think she might have wanted to see Dorothy solve her own problems--or she might have had too much to do to look in on Dorothy more than once or twice a week. (None of which, of course, explains why Dorothy didn't remember--the pleasure of being with old friends distracted her and made her forget? Anyway, sorry for the extra post. --jeremy and KIEX ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:07:09 -0700 From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz query Gili Bar-Hillel, are you still here? Because I've been trying to access your web page for some time now, with no luck. Is your page still up? Is your service provider still in business (problem seems to be at their end)? And anyone else, if YOU know the answer, could you let me know? --Eric "It's all to update/refurbish my links page, you see" Gjovaag ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:14:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-21-97 Tyler: If the Gnome King in _TLAAOSC_ is the same or same race as Ruggedo, then nomes have children. Ruth: Really, there were five Selig films; I thought there were only four, though one was titled _Dorothy and the Scarecrow in Oz_ and was based on events in _Wizard_ and _Land_. Atticus: Sorry. Steve: _The Fairylogue and Radio-Plays_ premiered in Grand Rapids Michigan September 24, 1908. Dave: We have the same problem. What really gets me is the jerks who assume that because I don't like football and don't have a girlfriend that I must therefore be gay. I guess this shows that I have to work with immature high school students. I keep hoping this mysterious caller who keeps hanging up at the machine at midday calls is my beautiful friend Katherine, with whom I share multiple interests, but I haven't picked up yet to see. And her only class this summer isn't on campus so she can't e-mail me as we had been. She has a boyfriend, of course, or did, last I talked to her. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:32:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-97 Joel: Here's the Saturday schedule for Winkies: Saturday...A.M.--July 12, 1997: 7:30-- Breakfast 9:00-- Costume Contest Registration--Registrar:Lee Speth 9:30-- Costume Parade--Moderator: Eric Gjovaag 10:00-Ozzy Games for All Ages--Director: Lynn Beltz 11:15-Quiz for All Ages--Created by Marin Xiques 11:59-Lunch Saturday...P.M.--July 12, 1997: 1:20-- Winkie Business Meeting 1:30-- Winkie Auction--Auctioneer: Patrick Maund 1:30-- Alternate Activities--Director: Lynn Beltz (Location to be Announced) Dealer Room: Opens at conclusion of Auction Children's Auction: at conclusion of Adult Auction 3:15-- "Guesstimated" time for end of Adult Auction 6:00-- Dinner 8:00-- Evening Program The Wonderful Winkie Award "The Women of Oz"--a presentation by Barbara Koelle "A Different Point of View"--created by Langley Brandt "Together Through the Years"--Winkie Memories Winkie Party--(Location to be Announced) ...hope this helps. DOTWIZ illos: I wish I were sure of this, but I *think* Neill did his own color work for this book. I believe it's one of two (the other is E.CITY) for which Neill did paintings for the illos. For the rest of the series, he'd just indicate colors to the colorist. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:10:29 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-97 Jeremy AND KIEX!! wrote: >Hmm--John Kennedy says "...the two modern instruments are quite alike >..."--I >gyess my problem is that my cornet was bought used in the first quarter of >the century. It's made of some yellowish-plated metal but is >significantly >shorter than all trumpets I've ever seen and is conical--oh well, it's not >important. No, the usual configuration still has the cornet bent into a shorter shape than the trumpet (although I have a 60-year-old or so cornet that is in the trumpet shape), and the cornet bore remains conical -- that's the essential difference between the two instruments -- but the two instruments are more alike in the 20th century than they used to be == the trumpet a little more conical and shortened to B-flat (F or so used to be more normal), the cornet a little more cylindrical.... You can have no idea how different the pivotal trumpet call in "Fidelio" sounds played on a period instrument -- it speaks like the voice of God! Makes any modern trumpet sound like it's got a Harmon mute on. (But the modern instrument can play much more difficult passages, which is why it changed.) * * * * The 6/1 and 6/21 digests seem to have been cut short, ending at ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 09:22:44 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-31-97 for 6/1 and at critical. Fasten your seat belt. :-) for 6/21. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:33:51 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Gutenberg: I don;t know the URL myself, but Eric Gjovaag web site or possibly Piglet Press should have the proper links. They can be found at: http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/~tiktok/ http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/piglet/ atticus: True, your story has seniority, and therefore "the edge", although Chris Dulabone leans more toward this philosophy that I do. Still, I am a little hesitant to assign "ALL-POWERFUL" to any object, even the magic belt, expecially during the Baum 14. Collections: Much like David Hulan, I am not really interested in early editions. All I want are the stories, and as far as I know, I have every Oz book ever published, except for some comics and some that use Oz, but are not about Oz. Best of the non-FF: This was asked of Steve Teller, but here's my answer. Far and away, the best non-FF title ever is _The Disenchanted Princess of Oz_, by our own Melody Grandy. A close second is _The Gardeners Boy of Oz_, by Phyllis Ann Karr. I love the March Laumer stories as well, although they are not everybody's cup of Ozade. King, King, double King: AHA! At last, I slew the dragon of double spaces! The key is to use the WinCIM editor instead of DOS. Funny, though, up until now, DOS has worked just fine. Oh, well. It's actually a little easier to use WinCIM directly. I'm just an old-fashioned DOS dude. Note: This message was written entirely in the WinCIM editor. I hope that the doubles are gone --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:56:22 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Hmmmmmmmm......We did have a full moon the last few days...... Robin - Whoa there! I was only commenting on the fact that none of these "gifted" children had read the Alice books. Nothing global. My grandmother had polio and we don't have to worry about that anymore either. However, such anecdotes do not dissuade me in the least from thinking globally that there were "Good Old Days" and lamenting what has happened more recently. Hope you enjoy your time out here in the Golden West. Get ready for some beautiful weather. Sorry I can't meet you at Winkies. Maybe it will work next year. Scott Olson >I think, generally speaking, that these are the good old days. How old are you? Did you live through the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's? Otherwise, what basis do you have for such a conclusion? I may be a bit more hardover than usual today. I have friends who live in Palo Alto two blocks from the police station. Last week six young men beat a man to death right outside their condo. It could have been me. It could have been one of my friends. It could have been you. It was a young engineer, with a wife and three-year-old twin daughters. The motive? Robbery. He wasn't even carrying his wallet. He was just out for a stroll on a nice night after finishing some computer work. I can tell you this affects how I feel about the world right now. Steven - At the risk of beating this to death, are your "gifted" students going to READ the Alice books or just watch movies about them? Sigh. And since you asked, for years "some people" have been trying to "reform and/or rehabilitate people with character disorders. It can't be done. Demonstrably. As a result, the public needs to be protected from them. How? Whatever it takes, starting with changing the damaged legal system that is putting them back on the street to do it again. Sadly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:10:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy digest Hello. First off I wish to thank people like Stephen Teller and Tyler Jones for actually reading my post and understanding it. I also wish not to thank those who merely took offense at it and decided to spit venom. Enough said. I understand now why there is so much posted about Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz, as that is the book currently being read by the Ozzy Digest. Thank you, Tyler. I have read ALL of the original 40 Oz books -- mostly through interlibrary loan (which here costs 50 cents per book). It's worth it, but I still wish to own some. Affording anything, including reprints, is not easy with the local economy. I have, however, been able to order several books, around thirty, which I am wading through right now. The Baum Bugle has a review section. I would suggest an online list of reviews for people to view so as to get an idea of what they're buying. I greatly regret purchasing books like The Nome King's Shadow and Dorothy Returns to Oz, as well as Dorothy: Return to Oz. Then again, I praise God I got to read books like Seven Blue Mountains 1, Giant Garden of Oz, The Blue Witch of Oz, Haunted Castle of Oz, and The Flying Bus of Oz. Though The Dinamonster of Oz was written by a Baum, as was Silly Oz Buls, people should be made aware that they are not as Ozzy as one could hope. I propose such a site! I have an unused web site, which I would offer for such a purpose. Any input? Thanks! Kieran F. Miller ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:01:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest General alert: This Wednesday, June 25, Personal FX (the collectibles show) on the FX cable channel, will be featuring a Wizard of Oz supercollector. Sarah Hadley: A tarot deck based on Oz is certainly a fascinating idea, and I think a valid one, since many of the Oz characters represent archetypes. Here are some more suggestions: The High Priestess: Glinda The Chariot: Ozma's royal chariot, drawn by the Sawhorse The Empress: Ozma The Emperor: Pastoria The Lovers: Pon & Princess Gloria The Tower: the Castle of the WWW The Hermit: the Braided Man? The Devil: Ruggedo? The death card is a problem. (The poppy field?) Likewise Justice, Judgment, and the Hanged Man. (Tyler & Dave: how about using a clip from the apple orchard scene? :) ) Also, there doesn't seem to be a place in the major arcana for the Tin Woodman, although he could otherwise appear as the King of Swords. Ruth Berman: After I had posted my idea about the possibility of concentric underground shells in _Dorothy and the Wizard_, it occurred to me that the description of the Mangaboo land, with those colored suns centered over the glass city, strongly suggests a cavern configuration. And of course you are right in saying that other FF books don't support the concentric-shell theory. To the ones you mentioned I would add _Royal Book_ and perhaps _Tik-Tok_. About the illustrations in _Dorothy and the Wizard_: Neill seems to have been intentionally striving for a nightmarish effect in the color plates depicting many of the underground scenes. Another unsettling thing about those illustrations is the way he works against his own medium. I have thought for a long time, and an artist friend of mine recently agreed, that Neill uses water colors like oil paint in many of those plates. While the illustration of Dorothy and Ozma near the end of the book has the typical transparency and delicacy of water colors, the earlier plates tend more toward the density and opacity of oils, which gives them a heavier, more oppressive feeling. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 09:22:19 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-97 > OTOH, Steve Teller mentioned his copy of _Last > Egyptian_ cost .25; mine cost $100.00. But I do have a 1st of Kabumpo signed > by Thompson that cost me $3.50. > Some people have all the luck!! > > Re: Steve Teller having read "100 or so Oz books other than the FF" > > What do you consider the 5-6 best? > > Sincerely, > > Scott Olsen > I would hate to make such value judgments without even re-examining my shelves, but three that stand out off the top of my head are Volkov's SEVEN UNDERGROUND KINGS, Phyllis Ann Karr's THE GARDENER'S BOY OF OZ, and Melody Grandy's SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS, BOOK 2, THE FLYING SORCERER (which I prefer to the more episodic Book 1). This makes one out of print book, one unpublished one and one that the reader must have both a Russian and English version of in order to get toth English text and original illustrations. Of course I must ignore the 36 + books that were submitted for the centenniel book contest as I have vowed not to discuss them in public. > BTW, I'll be sure to get > some digital camera photos of my books for the webpage...getting things isn't > very fun 'less you can share them with others. > > Sarah G Hadley > That is a very generous thought (which goes with your kindly dealer). Some of us, however, don't have web pages. > > Does anyone know the Saturday Winkie schedule? Robin does. > > Have you considered showing your students the 1970's British version with > Fiona Fullerton and Peter Sellars (as the March Hare)? I've always had a > soft spot for that one. I have difficulty recommending the recent TV > "all star cast" one becuase of all that hippikaloric in it about the > Jabberwock terrorizing Wonderland. > -- Dave > I haven't considered using either of these versions. I did think of showing the Minneapolis Children's Theatre version (it was shown on HBO in the early 80s) but my copy is on Beta and the VCR in the classroom is VHS. Anyway, the class only meets for a total of 10 hours, and I am more interested in their writing their original Alice tales. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:22:14 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bear: You asked, "Are you making an excuse for Jim's bad behavior on the basis of the Sawhorse not being able to feel it?" No, I was responding to your June 18th question as to whether Jim knew the Sawhorse didn't feel pain, when he kicked him. Joyce Odell: Good discussion of why gays identify with Judy Garland. Melody Grandy: Your suggestion that men like female vocalists in the same way that women like male ones doesn't really apply to the specific question, which was why gay men like Judy Garland and opera divas. I'm surprised by your comment that you "don't condone kinkiness." If by "kinkiness" you mean "homosexuality" (and in the context of the discussion, that seems to be what's meant), then it's hard to see any reason for not "condoning" it. On religious grounds, you can condemn as wrong for a believer-in-the-religion essentially anything, but you cannot condemn things as wrong for those who are not believers-in-that-religion unless you can show that the behavior in question does some kind of harm. Jeremy Steadman: I suspect a cornet from early in this century would still be considered modern. It was the period late in the 18th century and early in the 19th when pretty nearly all the wind instruments were going through important changes to standardize them, make them easier to play in tune, easier to trill on, and so on. Gili Bar-Hillel: Interesting contrast on intolerance vs. arrogance in degrees of bad-guyness. Scott Olsen: While I haven't read anything like as many Oz-apocryphals as Steve, I much enjoyed Melody Grandy's, David Hulan's, and Phyllis Karr's Oz books (also the short stories Melody and Phyllis published in "Oziana." The story about Speedy's return to Umbrella Island that took up the whole of last year's (or do I mean this year's) Oziana was also a stand-out, although I've gone blank on the author's name at the moment. Tyler Jones: Sorry it was so much work for you to get rid of the doubles, but congratulations on (and thanks for) doing it! Sarah G. Hadley: An Oz Tarot deck is an interesting idea. The Sawhorse with red wagon for the Charioteer? By the way, it's hierophant rather than heirophant. I haven't heard of an Oz Tarot as having been done before. I did run across an "Alice in Wonderland" Tarot at one point -- rather poorly drawn, but so clever and funny in its choices as to be fun to have anyway. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:45:05 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-23-97 Melody: Thanx for the info on the Ozzy "wallpaper". I'll definately check it out. Tyler: Hooray!! double-spacing is gone. :-D Sarah: I envy your new acquisitions. Where do we find your web page? Dick ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 11:37:35 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things NON-FF BOOKS: I heartly second Tyler's superlative praise for _Disenchanted Princess of Oz_ Zim is one of my favorite Oz characters, even if he isn't "canonical"... Kieran Miller wrote: >Then again, I praise God I got to read books like Seven Blue >Mountains 1... Just for the info of "newbies" who might not be aware, _Seven Blue Mountains of Oz volume 1_ is synonymous with _Disenchanted Princess of Oz_... BTW, Kieran, I think I've seen your name/E-mail address on the Enya mailing list -- Are you an Enya fan too then? ( If so, welcome to mine and Melody's club for joint Oz-Enya fans... :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 25, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 17:44:45 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-97 Re: Steve Teller "Neill should not be blamed for the color in DOTWIZ. He did not do the color, did he? It is my understanding that Neill did watercolors for _Dorothy & The Wizard_ and _Emerald City_. These are the only two Oz books where he did the color work. Re: 1933 Alice and Dave's "Paramount seems to be the studio most conservative about releasing their classic films on video..." This film isn't in public domain? Re: _Dorothy and the Wizard_ Just one more thing. I know _Dorothy and the Wizard_ is the shortest Baum Oz book, and may well be the shortest Oz book. ...Just some useless trivia.... Maybe it's time to ease on down to _Road_. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:53:41 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 > Best of the non-FF: > This was asked of Steve Teller, but here's my answer. > Far and away, the best non-FF title ever is _The Disenchanted Princess of > Oz_, by our own Melody Grandy. A close second is _The Gardeners Boy > of Oz_, by Phyllis Ann Karr. > > --Tyler Jones > > Steven - At the risk of beating this to death, are your "gifted" students > going to READ the Alice books or just watch movies about them? Sigh. > > Sadly, Bear (:<) > We spent the first week (of the two week session reading the two books and discussing them, during the second week they are seeing versions of the books, to compare with the originals, and writing original stories. I hope this satisfies you. BTW: Some of them are very attentive and a few seem rather slapdash and perfunctuary. I have hopes for someting really interesting from the first group--the latter must be hoist by their own petard. This is not a graded class. > > I praise God I got to read books like Seven Blue > Mountains 1, Giant Garden of Oz, The Blue Witch of Oz, Haunted Castle of Oz, > and The Flying Bus of Oz. > Kieran F. Miller It looks like Tyler, Kieran, Ruth,(and Dave) and I agree on some of the top non-FF. I have the advantage of having read SEVEN BLUE MOUNTAINS 2. If you like Zim in Book 1, you will love him in book 2, especially when he has to fight a magic duel with Glinda. He interacts beautifully with the traditional Oz characters. My favorite is his relationship with Jinnicky, but I do not know if he will survive into the final version because of copyright questions. There is also a very touching scene of the sacrifice Wam had to make to preverve Zim's existance. With luck the rest of you will get that opportunity this millenium. > > Scott Olsen: While I haven't read anything like as many Oz-apocryphals > as Steve, I much enjoyed Melody Grandy's, David Hulan's, and Phyllis > Karr's Oz books (also the short stories Melody and Phyllis published in > "Oziana." The story about Speedy's return to Umbrella Island that took > up the whole of last year's (or do I mean this year's) Oziana was also a > stand-out, although I've gone blank on the author's name at the moment. > > Ruth Berman It was Ruth Waara, the she wrote three other unpublished Oz books, my favorite being her second, THE MAGIC CRYPTOGRAM OF OZ. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > > NON-FF BOOKS: > I heartly second Tyler's superlative praise for _Disenchanted Princess of Oz_ > Zim is one of my favorite Oz characters, even if he isn't "canonical"... > They still haven't driven me out of my office. As long as I'm here I will continue to send messages. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:42:13 -0500 (CDT) From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 SCOTT H.: >Dave: We have the same problem. What really gets me is the jerks who >assume that because I don't like football and don't have a girlfriend that >I must therefore be gay. I guess this shows that I have to work with >immature high school students. my empathy AND sympathy. just remember, it hurts 1000 times worse to have the "F" word thrown at you when you really are gay. DAVE: >BTW, Kieran, I think I've seen your name/E-mail address on the Enya mailing >list -- Are you an Enya fan too then? ( If so, welcome to mine and Melody's >club for joint Oz-Enya fans... :) ) my late illustrator marcus mebes was an enya fan as well. i remember he even had a portrait of her commissioned. INTERESTING OCCURRENCE: while on america online last night, i chatted with one of the original employees of the land of oz theme park in north carolina. he even has some souvenirs. is anyone looking for anything in particular? * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary . . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:48:40 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline jeremy >It seems to me that more literary / author types seem to prefer cats to dogs -- and that more of the kind of people I'm no longer allowed to distinguish from others prefer dogs. (Sorry, Bear, but I would guess you like dogs better, right?) Your insult is a little too obscure for me. In any event, you are dead wrong. I have a cat or vice versa and have always had cats. We get along fine. In fact, Cat Tip For The Day: They now sell a clipper at the Vet's for cat nails. It works perfectly and does not upset even our sensitive lady. Price, $12. Well worth it. Catily, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:44:35 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 Ruth Berman wrote: >On religious grounds, you can condemn >as wrong for a believer-in-the-religion essentially anything, but you cannot >condemn things as wrong for those who are not believers-in-that-religion >unless you can show that the behavior in question does some kind of >harm. Errr.... I am not one to justify bigotry, but this doesn't follow from any set of axioms I'm aware of. There is no formal contradiction in the notion of God saying "Homosexuality disgusts me, and I want to see all homosexuals killed." I happen to think it wrong, as a citizen, as an amateur philosopher, and as a Christian, but it is not an inherently impossibility to be dismissed out of hand. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:15:23 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Kiex: True, our theory on the low-poer belt would not apply to _Dot&Wiz_, since that was before the massive transportation in _Emerald City_. From an Oz-as-literature view, it does not make any difference at all, since we can just say that Baum either forgot about the belt, or did not want it to ruin his stories. From the Oz-as-history view, though, we need a reason why Ozma did not use it more frequently. She usually wears the belt, after all, and we can assume that she would not forget. The two best explanations so far are the low-power theory and the idea that Ozma wants Dorothy to have her own adventures, and would only use the magic belt if injury/etc. were unavoidable. Nevertheless, she cut it awfully close in _Scarecrow_ when he was about to be torched, assuming that the belt was fully charged, which I do not assume. IIRC, JOdel is Joyce Odell. While I love dogs, my favorite will always be cats. Kiex again: A number of people now and again have said much the same thing as you have. That is, eating animals in and of itself is not a bad thing, but eating specific ones that have connections absolutely IS a bad thing. Begin Marlon Brando voice-over: "What have I done, that you should eat my piglet? Did I not pull you from that cave? Have I not given you a home?" The FF clearly implies that there have been no visits by Dorothy between _Ozma_ and _Dot&Wiz_. That strange, surreal story _Song of Oz_ may have only been a dream. Scott: While I love football, I do not get the attitude by my fellow-footballers that "GEOGRAPHISM" is the answer. That is, since I went to Arizona and Arizona State is the nearest major school, I must hate their guts. Also, since I have moved to Phoenix, I must now become a Cardinals fan. Sorry, guys, that ain't gonna happen. If anyone wants to view my full rant and rave (some slight profanity), e-mail me privately. John: Uh-oh. That meant you did not read my brilliant response to Kieran about Oz postings. Maybe Dave will send another copy to you. Bear: Threads of memory. In my childhood (Orange County, early 70s) we would leave the doors open (not unlocked, OPEN) so that the sea breeze could cool the house. Today? I wouldn't advise it. Kieran: Hopefully, such an Ozzy site already exists. If you go to my web page, and choose "Reviews" of Buckethead books, you will see some reviews of several BEOO books, as well as instructions on how to post your own. I do not have a Books of Wonder Section yet. I have been waiting to hear from Peter Glassman for his thoughts. While I can legally post reviews of BOW books without his permission, I do not desire to do so. If you send me some reviews of books that you have read (BEOO or BOW), I'll post them. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tnj/ Yes, the double spaces are gone, since the messages are completely written within the confines of the CompuServe Empire. There may be more to this Oz/Enya connection than meets the eye... --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 08:56:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 Gordon - Great ideas! Since the idea of 'death' in Oz is rather redundant (post-Ozma, anyway, and _no_, I'm not trying to open that can of worms), I've thought of changing the Death card to a Change or Transformation card (since that's simply the meaning of the Death card, under a different name), and using Tip as the illustration...thereby designating the Tip/Ozma transformation to represent the card. I've also thought of changing the Suit of Swords to the Suit of Axes (grin). Steve - I meant that I would be digitizing them for _my_ webpage. Did you mean that not all of you have web browsers? If so, then, when I'm all ready, I'll post a list to the Digest of the illos I digitized, and you non-web users can email me for them. ;-) BTW - I'm not sure who posted about the Peter Sellers version of Alice, but whoever it was, how can I get a copy? I'm an Alice fan as well as an Oz fan, and that's one of two film versions (the other being the 1933 Paramount version) that I'd really like to get my paws on. Ruth - Sorry about that. It's "Hierophant", as you said. Hmmm, I wonder if there's a place for Tik-Tok in the Major Arcana.... BTW, I'm tempted to use Polychrome as Temperance, because the Greek goddess Iris (Goddess of the Rainbow) represents Temperance in the Mythic Tarot, and the position seems to fit Polychrome as well. Dick - It's "In Prozgress". ;-) Right now I've been busy digitizing color pics from the covers and color plates of my lovely new books (as the digital camera won't take a good picture of the whole cover or plate), and working up a bibliozgraphy of the FF for newbies. I should be working heavily on it in coming weeks...there'll also be a survey and a tribute page to the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:27:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: I am Flipper of Borg (Ozzy Digest) 1) Kevin, while you are constitutionally entitled to argue your right to your sexual preference, I find homosexuality distateful for religious reasons, and so while I will let you and the Baptists verbally bludgeon each other to death (indeed, it's more fun that way), I would appreciate if you left me out of your rhetoric. Thank you for your attention. Also: I'm afraid I don't share your opinions on Disney either. It would be hard for any company which botched _Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_ as badly as Disney to recover favor in my eyes. Let's hope they never butcher an Oz book--no, wait a moment, they did butcher _Land_ and _Ozma_ when they made _Return to Oz_... 2) Rereading part of _Scarecrow_ while tired today, I noticed that Flipper the Ork refered to his propeller-tail as being "mechanical". As such, this apparently obviates all the discussion we had some time ago about how orks could evolve propellers on their tails--the propellers didn't evolve; they're cybernetic! Flipper: I suppose you're going to tell them next about the helium-filled cavities in my wings... Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:41:04 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 Robin: Thank you VERY much for the Saturday schedule. Another question: what is the procedure to register for Saturday only? Do I contant Peter H? Thanks again. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:39:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 On rereading DOTWIZ: This was a fairly quick read, less than three hours. It started off magnificently in its descriptions in the first chapter. It was dark in places, but the ending was just berilliant in its wordplay as well. I think the dark parts were very effective. Also, I was reading from the Del Rey edition, but examined the color plates at Borders last eveining. This was perhaps Professor Wogglebug's funniest appearance in the books. Now I am certain my MS is less violent than this one. I was curious why Neill pictured Eureka in odd clothing Baum never described her as having. As far as any apparent homophobia I might have, I attend a church with a very hugging congregation that includes homosexuals. Believe it or not, I have hugged gay (and straight) men, so I must not be the gay basher some of you seem to think that I am. Of course, I prefer hugging women... If any of you are interested in the Mexican filmed play _Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum_, it is $10.50 + 3.75 shipping & tax (they charge everybody $0.75 tax, though I don't think they are supposed to) (total $14.25) Item MDV015 El Mago de Oz from Million Dollar Video Corporation 5420 McConnell Ave. Los Angeles, CA 90066 (310) 301-7484 (800) 444-88840 (310) 301-7484 (FAX) Warning: Contains no subtitles! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:36:51 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie Digest (frequency of same) Yo! I notice that some of us are in favor of Digests published every other day. Allow me to vote for daily Digests, unless Dave prefers the other option. I am assuming that the next book for discussion will be _The Road To Oz_, one of my favorites. Is this the case? When will this commence? As to the Winkie Conference, I will be (sadly) unable to attend this year, much as I'd like to. I'd like to be able to put some faces together with the names. For future reference, is there some way to attend, just on a daily (or part of a day) basis? Something like a walk-up ticket? Bob Spark -- "I love criticism just so long as it's unqualified praise." Noel Coward ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:41:34 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 Re: Kieran F. Miller "I would suggest an online list of reviews for people to view so as to get an idea of what they're buying. I propose such a site! I have an unused web site, which I would offer for such a purpose. Any input?" Sounds like a good idea to me! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 12:35:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA MAKES A COMMENT: Aaron wrote: >Kevin, while you are constitutionally entitled to argue your right to >your sexual preference, I find homosexuality distateful for religious >reasons... Ozma: Then why do you accept (or have at least *implied* that you do) Laumer's assertion that *I'm* ...?? Jellia: Sorry everyone -- Milady's in one of her contrary moods today... ALICE MOVIES: Scott Olsen wrote: >Re: 1933 Alice and Dave's "Paramount seems to be the studio most >conservative about releasing their classic films on video..." >This film isn't in public domain? It may be PD, but it sure isn't available on Video! (Or on TV anymore!) Saroz wrote: >I'm not sure who posted about the Peter Sellers version of Alice, but whoever >it was, how can I get a copy? It was me, and I found that CDNow has it for $9.99 ... Go to , select "Find Movies" and search by Actor/Actress "Fullerton, Fiona". Otherwise you can try a local video store although I've never seen it on sale (Some places have it for rent)... Aaron wrote: >It would be hard for any company which botched _Alice's Adventures in >Wonderland_ as badly as Disney to recover favor in my eyes. I think I've mentioned this before on the Digest, but _Alice_ is one of those fantasies that superficially *seems* like good material for an animation, but really isn't because in spite of things like size changes etc., the _Alice_ books are by and large dialogue-based. FWIW, I used to think the Disney adaptation of _Alice_ was the worst ever, but I have uncovered three others even worse...One is a Hanna-Barrbara (sp?) animation, the second is a stage play called "Alice at the Palace" and the very underside-of-the-Nome-Kings-shoes rock bottom is one from the 50's with Nanette Fabray that the Disney channel has shown recently...All three of these stand out as versions that pretty much throw out Lewis Carroll altogether... And interestingly, both of the first two introduce a novel concept -- A "Langwedierian" (glamourous) Queen of Hearts! :) OZ AND ENYA: Atticus: >my late illustrator marcus mebes was an enya fan as well. i remember he >even had a portrait of her commissioned. Have you seen Marcus' illustrations for Buckethead's _Healing Power of Oz_? In that one Glinda is *definitely* Enya! (My illios of Glinda are Enya too, although I extend it to include the hair!) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 26, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 Sarah: Couldn't you use Captain Fyter for the King of Swors? Of course, I don't know much about Tarot, but it seems to fit. The Peter Sellers _Alice_ should be on the budget rack (presumably in an inferior quality recording). Look for the title _Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_. The title is odd, because I remember Tweedledum and Tweedledee in that one. No one seems to be joining my venue!!! Here's the address again. http://venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid+1153 Aaron: You have to remember that Walter Murch is an auteur, and found his own creative vision in the Oz books. Anything wrong with the story is basically his responsibilty, because a new regime took over and swept it under the rug wiith a really lousy campaign. Another thing on DOTWIz, what are those little creatures in the black pit. They look kind of like Mifkets, but nowhere are they mentioned in the text. Perhaps they are kobolds, which , interestingly enough, is the root of the element "cobalt," because both were considered useless. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:07:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 I just sent an e-mail to Robert V. Barron, director of the 1986 stretching Witch Wizard of Oz animated short, and story editor of the 1991 Tinmanator version. I hope he responds. I have asked about both of these. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:49:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-97 6-23 Digest: Tyler: Glad to see you are no longer spaced out . . . Scott (Sahutchi): I like the Ozzy twist of the video you mentioned. As a college student, I can easily imagine many colleges that would be better than mine--especially those in Oz--but can also imagine many worse! That's all I have to say about the Digest of the 23rd; I need to hurry to get off this computer, or I'd respond to the Digest of the 24th too. I'll do that tomorrow. Until then, KIEX and the germy thing Jeremy: Hey! That's not how we agreed to sign our Digests! KIEX: Tough, buster. I've got some Scoodlers here willing to make you into soup at my command, so I'd go quietly if I were you . . . Jeremy: Point taken. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:42:52 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-23-97 Content-disposition: inline Steve: >Yes, it is the picture taken by the royal photographer I had mounted. But Neill should not be blamed for the color in DOTWIZ. He did not do the color, did he?< It is possible he did--if the photographic color separation process existed then, he could have painted the illos in full color himself. The coloring job (besides the Wizard's lipstick)--well I am working from memory now, but the illos are not a simple "coloring-book" job. Many of the *outlines* are in color themselves, and seem so well-integrated with the areas of color, it seems one artist MUST have drawn and painted the original color illos. The color illos simply seem to be too much of a piece. As noted earlier, the Wizard may have very red lips because of faulty reproduction. (Color sep creation was in its infancy then.) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:43:38 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 Content-disposition: inline >It seems to me that more literary / author types seem to prefer cats to dogs -- and that more of the kind of people I'm no longer allowed to distinguish from others prefer dogs. (Sorry, Bear, but I would guess you like dogs better, right?)< It's possible that introverts like myself appreciate cats better than extroverts--an introvert, needing lots of privacy, can appreciate the cat, which also likes to have its personal space. Extroverts, being more emotionally needy, can appreciate dogs, which are more responsive than cats and also emotionally needy. After owning a couple of dogs, I realized I was not the right person for them, & have only owned cats since. However, we might get a dog someday for my more extroverted daughter. :-) In their own way, cats can be very loving. Unfortunately, Baum apparently was one of these folks who mistakenly thought they were not--both of Baum's fictional kitties, glass and meat, are much more sarcastic than affectionate. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:44:57 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 Content-disposition: inline Ruth: >I'm surprised by your comment that you "don't condone kinkiness."< As in hetero and homo kinkiness. In being against abuse of life-giving powers, I'm pretty old-fashioned and non-discriminatory. I've made it pretty clear in the past that I'm not for heterosexual misbehavior, either. Going into detail on the harm that sort of abuse can do, as Robin says, seems inappropriate for the Ozzy Digest. Biblically, life is considered sacred, and so is anything connected with giving life. Hence, I remained a maiden 'till I got married. >Your suggestion that men like female vocalists in the same way that women like male ones doesn't really apply to the specific question, which was why gay men like Judy Garland and opera divas. I was trying to lump them in with straight guys, merely suggesting that gay adulation of Garland may not be very much different from normal-guy adulation of any female vocalist. One gay guy I knew owned Patsy Kline and Streisand records and not one of Judy's. Conversely, there surely must be straight guys who are Judy Garland fans. I just haven't met any personally, yet. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:14:21 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Ozzie Digest: L Frank Baum Quotation While doing some advance reading of _The Road To OZ_, I came across a quote on my page 184 that might be appropriate to one of our recent ongoing discussions. I would like to print it here with the sincere hope that no one will become offended by certain terms: > Polly advanced rather shyly. > "You have some queer friends, Dorothy," she said. > "The queerness does n't matter, so long as they 're > friends," was the answer. -- "I love criticism just so long as it's unqualified praise." Noel Coward ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:19:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 Atticus: Souvenirs from Banner Elk? You bet I'm interested. Can your contact list what's available for sale? Saroz: I'm glad you're doing a bibliography for newbies. You may want to see one I did for the BUGLE in the '80s. I don't recall which issue and can't find my index, but someone on the DIGEST will surely find theirs and tell you which issue it's in. Winkie Con: I believe that if you want to come as a "walk-in," your best bet is to e-mail Pete Hanff. I'm sure there's a prorated fee. Cats: are better than dogs any day of the week, but don't tell that to my dog. Gays: It's starting to sound like a poll here about who disapproves of homosexuality and who doesn't. Sheesh. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:49:40 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Scott: _Dot&Wiz_ may well be the shortest of the FF, but the honor of the shortest Oz book of all time is _Ozma Gets Really Pissed off and Cusses and Totally Offends (Almost) everyone in Oz, and it also wins the honors as longest title. Others: I also enjoyed Ruth Waara's tales. Too bad they are so hard to get ahold of. Bob: The timeliness of the DIgest depends on the volume each day and Dave's schedule. I don't think it would be feasible for Dave to commit to a fixed schedule. THe digest simply comes out when it comes out. Scott Olsen: That site Kieran wants to see come into existance is already here. Reviews of BEOO books can be found at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tnj/ --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:49:49 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18 thru 24-97 Five Digests to respond to. Well, nowt to do but get on with it; this may take a couple of days... 6/18: Aaron: All the statements about what eggs do to nomes are stated in the universal; there's no indication that it varies from nome to nome. And it's almost always in the context of what it will do to either Ruggedo/Roquat or Kaliko. Dorothy's ancestry is obviously something that each of us has his own opinion about. I was just stating mine; there isn't any conclusive evidence one way or another. And while no one has accused Trot, Betsy, or Button-Bright of being half-fairy (and I don't think Dorothy is half-fairy, just that she has some trace of fairy blood in her ancestry), Baum does say "It is said that fairies were present at [Trot's] birth" and marked her with their mystic signs, and we know that Button-Bright had an ancestor who owned a magic umbrella and was an Arabian Knight. Betsy, it's true, seems to have no magical background, but then Betsy never had but one adventure where she went from our world to a magical one. Tyler: I think you're thinking of Asprin's Thieves' World (or something like that) series, not the Myth, Inc. one - Asprin wrote all the latter himself, as far as I know. Certainly no one else was ever credited with one. The definition of "nome" as "one who knows" is in RINKITINK. And it's not a footnote. Bob: I could see a 100-mile trip that was uphill most of the way taking quite a while on a train, but it seems unlikely to me that the run from San Francisco to Modesto would take anything like that long, even in 1900. But I could be wrong; I'm no expert on old train schedules. (Query: would a train for Modesto leave from San Francisco? That would imply it would have to go down to San Jose and then turn east over some fairly steep hills. I'd have thought such a train, like one for Sacramento, would leave from Oakland. Anybody know?) Robin: I thought that TIK-TOK was based on a play, which was based on OZMA. I know Baum refers to the play in his introduction to TIK-TOK, so I thought the order was the other way round. And I'm pretty sure that the Rose Kingdom in the play - and later the book - was based on the Mangaboos, though I don't have any direct evidence. 6/19: Kieran: The Digest deals with whatever the contributors are interested in writing about. If you don't like it, feel free not to read it. That's what a scroll bar is for. I don't have the kind of "collection" that the serious collectors here have; I'm mostly interested in the stories as stories, and secondarily in the illustrations, but couldn't care less about things like DJs. I have firsts, I think, of GIANT HORSE and PIRATES, neither in particularly good condition, and R&L color plate editions of RINKITINK and MAGIC that definitely aren't firsts. And I have, or have on order, all the BoW and IWOC reprints with color plates, and I have all of Baum's major fantasy books, mostly in late R&L reprints or Dover editions that have been secondarily hardbound. I do have pretty nice early editions of YEW and JOHN DOUGH, and a dilapidated but complete early edition of DOT AND TOT. And I have all the new books from BoW and the IWOC, plus 15-20 Buckethead books. And a few foreign editions. Totals three 3' shelves plus part of another. Robin: I think the Braided Man incident, and maybe the dinner in Voe as well, were attempts by Baum to relieve the tension in DOTWIZ. They just didn't succeed very well. If 1 in 20 is homosexual, that doesn't mean that if you bring a random selection of 20 people to Oz, one of them will be homosexual. (Reminds me of the old joke about the couple who decided to stop after three children because they'd read that one person in four was Chinese.) It's just a matter of probabilities. As it turns out, since there seem to have been 20 human mortals who came to Oz, the odds are roughly 2-1 that at least one of them was homosexual, if 1 in 20 is in fact the correct ratio. Steve: I don't think most of the people who call themselves "conservatives" in this country think that punishing offenders is the best way to prevent crime. My take on it is that they just want revenge. (And in many cases, notably Chief Justice Rehnquist, aren't too particular whether the one punished is even guilty...) I hope your eviction from your office won't interfere unduly with your ability to respond to the Digest. Tyler: If my book, EUREKA IN OZ, is ever published it explains Eureka's return to Oz and to favor. At the moment I'm revising the original version to editorial request, but I think when I'm done it will see print. Of course, it doesn't agree with Laumer's or any other solution to the problem, but I'll leave that to the HACC people to work out. It's consistent with Baum, anyhow. (And I don't think any of the other FF writers even mention Eureka; if they do, she doesn't do anything.) Melody: Hmmm. While I didn't care greatly for "Abby", Tom's having a homosexual lover (who never appears in the story) didn't bother me. I found Abby herself the irritating part of that story, and I didn't like the fact that the Forbidden Fountain apparently lobotomized Conjo permanently, which is inconsistent with its effect on anyone else who ever drank from it. Sarah: Sounds like you got a Deal. Congratulations! John K.: That wooden cornet sounds to me like an in-name-only ancestor of the modern cornet. Anyhow, by the time of DOTWIZ the cornet was essentially the same instrument we have today. And Bix Beiderbecke was a very famous jazz cornetist. Jeremy: If Dorothy didn't visit Oz between OZMA and DOTWIZ, how did her agreement with Ozma get changed? And if nothing happened but a short visit at teatime, say, then why should Baum have alluded to it? Dorothy doesn't say anything like, "I haven't seen you since we whupped Roquat," either. I expect that some Saturday while Uncle Henry was visiting grown-up friends in Sydney, Dorothy decided to pay Ozma a visit, and they worked out a more frequent check so she could pay other quick visits when things were slack after she got back to Kansas. (As Joyce hypothesized in a later Digest.) Saturday is usually a busy day for farmers - that's when they go into town for supplies and such - so it's much less likely that Dorothy would have time for a visit that day than at other times. Nomes are immortals, like fairies, and at some point Baum says that fairies have been around since the beginning of the world. (In MAGIC, I believe.) Possibly the same things is true of nomes. Or possibly there are female nomes. Bear only objects to political comments when other people make them. My byline quote? Or was that line addressed to someone else? Gordon: Agreed that the trial of Eureka is funny, and as I recall I really enjoyed it when I was a kid. But it doesn't fit with what we're told elsewhere of Ozma's character. Roquat and his allies, for instance, are intending to do something much worse than eating a piglet in EMERALD CITY, but she refuses to use force against them, and does nothing to punish them after they drink from the Forbidden Fountain. While it's conceivable that the different levels the travelers pass through are concentric shells, it seems unlikely to me. If they were, then I'd think Dorothy and Zeb would have noticed them on their way down, and nothing of the sort is mentioned. And, as others have pointed out, it would be inconsistent with other books, like TIK-TOK and ROYAL BOOK and YELLOW KNIGHT, that have underground segments. Bear: I'm the same age as you (less one year), and I remember those "good old days" very well. They were indeed pretty good if you were a healthy white middle-class heterosexual male. They weren't nearly as good as today if you were sick, or black, or Latino, or poor, or gay, or female. Ken C.: In point of fact, Tom didn't do anything in Oz in "Abby"; that entire story is set in Buffalo, though other places are referred to. Tom's lover was in California, I think LA, though maybe the Bay Area. And they'd broken up before the story started. Tyler: You can prove the truth through statistics, too, but they have to be correct and not invented, as so many of those quoted by people like Limbaugh are. (Not that I'm saying invented statistics are a monopoly of the Right. But their inventions seem to get wider distribution, probably because they dominate talk radio.) As for the "natural" rate of homosexuality, I doubt if anyone knows it. It's not, after all, something like being black or female that's obvious on first glance. It's more like being a Democrat in Arizona - something that a lot of people who are in the category don't want to expose to a largely hostile populace. Even when the survey is supposed to be confidential. So the surveys try to adjust for false answers, and as a result the data varies all over the lot. Joyce: Toto also got Dorothy into a sticky situation in GRAMPA, though he was a hero at the end of MAGICAL MIMICS. (The only case where he accomplished anything positive that I can recall.) Robin: The Scarecrow has no nose in my copy of GLINDA, which doesn't have color plates and is probably of Forties vintage. Gili and Joel: Thanks for the reference to Amazon as a source for Riley's book. I'm not averse to saving some bucks, and the UK Press isn't an organization that I have a strong urge to support. (Nothing against them, but this is the first thing they've published that I can think of that I've wanted. Not like Books of Wonder.) Atticus: >my further thoughts on this... perhaps ozma figured it was best for dorothy >and her to stay in the dome to supervise coo-ee-oh's actions, and she felt >coo-ee-oh would best be dealt with in an unmagical way (witness >unsuccessful magical attempts to reform ruggedo--the waters of oblivion, ad >infinitum). But Coo-ee-oh had lost all her magical powers before Dorothy used her ring to signal Glinda that she and Ozma were in trouble. In fact, nothing was done to Coo-ee-oh once Ozma got out of the city; she was left as a swan. So why should Ozma want to stay there to keep an eye on her? Dave: I can relate to that problem of girls claiming to want sweet, sincere, gentle, sensitive guys but finding those who meet those criteria unappealing. I can only encourage you to keep looking, and to remember that women are a lot more fun than girls. It took me a while to find the right one, but once I did it's been a very happy 24 years we've been together. 6/23: Robin: I remember that gnome slide show Eric Shanower did at Ozmopolitan last year (and I don't think that was its only, or even original, presentation). Yes, Eric definitely has a sense of humor, although very little of it shows up in his Oz writing. Sarah: Glinda as the High Priestess, Ozma as the Empress, the Tin Woodman as the Emperor, Mr. Tinker as the Moon, Tititi-Hoocho as the Sun, Happy Toko as the Star, Dorothy's house as the Falling Tower; the Scarecrow would be ideal as the Hanged Man, but you've already used him as the Hierophant and I can't think of a good substitute there. Ruggedo for the Devil, but who'd be Death in Oz? I'd have to dig out my deck and see what the other major arcana are; they aren't coming to me offhand. (Someone already mentioned the Lovers and the Chariot, I recall, as well as some of the ones I've mentioned.) Steve: I'm sure Bear has a solution to behavior disorders. Like the Queen of Hearts': "Off with his head!" That solves the problem and satisfies the need for revenge at the same time. 6/24: Scott: >Tyler: If the Gnome King in _TLAAOSC_ is the same or same race as >Ruggedo, then nomes have children. Why so? Certainly the succession to the kingship of the nomes doesn't seem to be hereditary; Kaliko is no relation to Ruggedo, and Bucky, who held the title briefly, wasn't even a nome. Or is there a reference to a child of the Gnome King in SANTA? (I don't recall one.) Kieran: Tyler Jones' Web site has many reviews of Buckethead books, but he doesn't post reviews of books from other publishers. If you want to post reviews of such books from other publishers on your site, I'd be happy to write a few for you. Ruth: >On religious grounds, you can condemn >as wrong for a believer-in-the-religion essentially anything, but you cannot >condemn things as wrong for those who are not believers-in-that-religion >unless you can show that the behavior in question does some kind of >harm. However, believers-in-religion condemn non-believers on a regular basis for things that non-believers don't believe do any kind of harm. "Harm" is a very flexible idea when it comes to a lot of religions - giving believers ideas that conflict with the religion is usually quite sufficient. Someone gave Marcia an "Alice" Tarot deck (probably the same one you've seen) for Christmas one year, and it evoked gales of laughter as we looked through it. The Dormouse as the Hermit probably got the biggest one. Whoof! Well, that's it. This is probably about the length of an average Digest by itself, but at least I'm more or less caught up. Of course, then I'm going to Cincinnati this weekend, so I'll get behind again...and then there'll be Winkies a couple of weeks after that...no rest for the wicked! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:34:28 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: _Is Ozma a boy or a girl_, or, _What, me worry?_ No pact with demon or angel, nor Faerie boon of second sight was needed to predict where Aaron would come out on the question of institutionalized homosocial homophobia. I just wanted you on the record. Thanks for taking the bait, Flipper. The chance that you would start extolling the philosophy of Allen Ginsberg was slim. Your freedom to share with others the unfathomable depth of your resolve to justify everything you do and every opinion you have on religious grounds, is not in question. Nobody would believe me if I made you up, so keep on making my arguments for me, by all means. I know none of this affects you, anyhow. I was pointing out what a yellow star and a pink triangle have in common. Wearers of each designated symbol shared close quarters in Nazi Germany, and religious grounds were used to justify their mass murder. (Although the historical fact of this is denied by many in the religious right.) Indeed, much thoughtless behaviour is justified on religious grounds. We are still, in many ways, living in "the good old days" of religious nation states determining who shall live. With modern communications, it just happens on TV instead of "over there." The leader of the Southern Baptist Delegation, or whatever that cult calls itself, was quoted as saying, in 1980, that "God does not hear the prayer of a Jew." Or suffragists, or slaves, on back into the 19th century. Intolerance would appear to be their rallying cry, and there appears to be no shortage of the intolerant. There is no shortage either, of people who never have to ask themselves what to think. What to think has already been worked out 'on your behalf.' How to think for yourself? Just think up ways to rationalize the irrationality of the 6 impossible things you've been told to believe before breakfast, and I'm not referring to dining at Milliway's, either. Phillip K. Dick expounded much on the willingness of people to perform as robots, never questioning the roles or mores inflicted upon them by "culture." One's heaven is another's Twilight Zone episode. Next stop, Willoughby. What ticks off the Baptists about Disney, is WD's nascence as one of the few Hollywood Studios owned by christians, that now appears to be run by jews and gays, yet still has the leftover cachet of promoters of the norm. Ellen's appearance in a technicolor Americana Norman Rockwell painting just pisses them off, and of that I'm glad. I survived Mauschwitz, and some call it Duckau; the Realtors run it now anyway. I treated the charnel house as a college, I got my certification and escaped. In a giant lavendar warehouse, I had to endure, amidst Amerikan flag and yellow ribbon bunting, the spectacle of yahoos loudly praying for scud missiles to destroy Jerusalem because that would fulfill Biblical prophecy and cue the return of Son-O-God, while making Belle dance with The BEAST. I came back for another two years at Imagineering, helping Michael, Frank and Jeffrey close deals with Baby Bells by showing off our Frankensteinean Virtual Reality Lab as the contract-signing stop on their behind-the-scenes tours. I no longer help them exploit unique licenses for plush toys to be manufactured by Asian political prisoners so they can be delivered to your Disney World resort suite with a Mac-Mad-Cow burger bag Dopey Meal. I've even heard that the new Hercules film isn't exactly faithful to the original story. You know, the one that never happened, because We have scriptures, they have myths. I can't imagine what problem anybody would have with a story where Dorothy won't shut up about that Oz place, so it's off to the electro-shock therapist. Combining the two books allowed Walter Murch to gloss over one of the most ignored facets of the Oz saga, the fact that Ozma is transgendered. Ozma has been both a boy and a girl. I can't imagine why anybody suffering from self-reflection and distrust of the representatives of normative behavior would find that aspect of the story interesting, can you? It must be great to never have to think about a problem, to live in a black and white world, where your role is defined by inherited belief systems that define the world for you despite your experience of it, or by your gender, of which there are merely two, of course. Most of the religious viewpoints ask you to live in denial of the world about you. To borrow a line from Disney, the world is a carousel of color. Make of the rainbow what you will. But I say these things without the authority of any church, synagogue or coven, and as you can tell from my experiences and my writing, I am a very good wizard and a very bad man. As a matter of fact, one that John Kennedy seems to think his god would like to see killed. I wish I was clever enough to reconcile the formal contradictions in that notion. Maybe if I was a woman, I wouldn't have to worry my pretty little head about it. Obligatory closing non sequitir: News flash: The pope has determined that the soul can not be cloned. Imagine having come to this conclusion without having read any good science fiction. This has been more flame from the burning papier mache head operated by Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:44:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 On Alice --- I'm not fond of the Disney vers either, or Lou Bunin's. My personal favorite stars....well, I can't remember. Nobody notable. But the costumes --- which follow Tenniel's illustrations perfectly --- and dialogue are great. BTW, in the version I'm talking about, Alice's encoutner with the Cheshire Cat in the tree has been ommited, and replaced by the Tweedles, and the boat ride with Dodgeson appears at the beginning. I didn't think the two-part Wonderland/Looking-Glass mini-series from the eighties, with Red Buttons and Carol Channing, was bad...but I disliked the added element of the terrorizing by the Jabberwocky. On Digests ---- I think a daily Digest is better. Shorter, and more fun. Sarah ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:08:16 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 Guess my last post didn't reach Dave in time to be included in this Digest. Scott O.: A 1933 film wouldn't be in PD unless the studio neglected to renew the copyright when it came up for renewal in 1961. Film studios rarely neglect these things. I assume you mean that DOTWIZ may well be the shortest FF Oz book? There are a lot of shorter ones outside the FF; there's one I have that's only two pages, and it's probably not the only one or the shortest. Anyhow, I can't think of an FF book that's likely to be shorter than DOTWIZ. Steve: > > I praise God I got to read books like Seven Blue >> Mountains 1, Giant Garden of Oz, The Blue Witch of Oz, Haunted Castle of Oz, >> and The Flying Bus of Oz. >> Kieran F. Miller >It looks like Tyler, Kieran, Ruth,(and Dave) and I agree on some of the >top non-FF. I'll agree about most of Kieran's "likes" as well, though I just read HAUNTED CASTLE last night and didn't think much of it. Not _bad_, but not in the class of the other books mentioned. (I certainly didn't think it was better than NOME KING'S SHADOW, which was slight but reasonably well-written.) CORY, CROCHETED CAT and BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN are three other quite good ones from Buckethead, and QUEEN ANN, CHRISTMAS, and MASQUERADE three that I like from BoW. (I'm obviously not objective about GLASS CAT, but it's gotten positive reviews elsewhere.) John K.: It seems to me that there _is_ something of a contradiction in a God saying, "Homosexuality disgusts me, and I want all homosexuals killed," if one also posits that God is the creator of all things and that God is good. Why would God create humans that He wanted destroyed? (Even if homosexuality isn't genetic, all the evidence is that it's something that appears long before a person is old enough to be responsible for it.) Of course, this incorporates two assumptions that aren't necessarily so. And then there are always Mysteries to explain why God does something that would certainly not be considered good if a human had done it. Tyler: I like cats and don't, in general, like dogs. Unfortunately, I'm extremely allergic to cats, while only slightly to dogs, so I'm around more of the latter. How does the FF imply that there were no visits between OZMA and DOTWIZ? You left the doors of your house in Orange County open when you weren't in the house? I'd have thought that would be a bad idea even in the early '70s. I lived in Orange County in the early '70s - and from then until last year, for that matter. I wouldn't have left my doors open when I wasn't in the house. OTOH, I left the doors open when I _was_ in the house all along, and nothing ever happened. (Admittedly, this was something I did only when the outside weather was appropriate - but in Orange County that's true for at least a third of the year.) Scott H.: I wondered about Eureka's clothes, too, and had meant to say something about it earlier but forgot. It's the only instance I can recall where Neill dressed an animal in human-style clothes. (Kabumpo, of course, wore his robes, but those were the kind that real elephants often wear.) Anyone remember another instance? Bob: If we're voting, I vote for the most frequent Digests that Dave's schedule and willingness to do the work permits. But since he does all the work, it's definitely his decision. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 09:31:18 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 > INTERESTING OCCURRENCE: > > while on america online last night, i chatted with one of the original > employees of the land of oz theme park in north carolina. he even has some > souvenirs. is anyone looking for anything in particular? > Consideriing the price one plastic plate sold for lastr year in Louisville, I would think they would all be valuable. > > Errr.... I am not one to justify bigotry, but this doesn't follow > from any set of axioms I'm aware of. There is no formal contradiction > in the notion of God saying "Homosexuality disgusts me, and I want to > see all homosexuals killed." I happen to think it wrong, as a citizen, > as an amateur philosopher, and as a Christian, but it is not an > inherently impossibility to be dismissed out of hand. There IS something inherently wrong in saying, "Homosexuality disgusts God, and He wants to see all homosexuals killed." It is the *selective* assertion of a few lines from the scriptures (and total ignoring of all the other passages that surround it) which is fundementally dishonest. If you accepted everything in the Bible you would refuse to eat cheeseburgers and kill blasphemers. > Steve - > > I meant that I would be digitizing them for _my_ webpage. Did you mean that > not all of you have web browsers? If so, then, when I'm all ready, I'll post > a list to the Digest of the illos I digitized, and you non-web users can > email me for them. ;-) > I simply meant that I, for one, do not have a web page and so cannot put anything on it. > Ozma: Then why do you accept (or have at least *implied* that you > do) Laumer's assertion that *I'm* ...?? > All Laumer does is have Ozma confess to the Shaggy Man, who has just told her of his hopeless passion for Dorothy (after all he is not a pedophile), that she understands because she has the same problem. This is suggestion rather than assertion. Having got into the matter myself, I believe the question of homosexuality has been covered sufficiently in the Digest. Those who believe it is wrong are not going to be convinced, nor are those who believe it should be accepted. We are only going to anger one another without accomplishing anything. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:36:08 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave <"belgrave@teleport.com"@teleport.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 ************************************************************ Hi all, Some of these questions refer to past posts. Please have patience with me not being up on things. I am so behind on things, I'll probably have a couple of posts on past things. Hope that's ok. Sarah, I have just purchased a Tarot deck of Inner Child Cards and it had 4 cards that are associated with Oz. I'll try and look up tonight what they mean and send more info if you are interested. I'm new to this idea so I don't know what I'm doing yet. Would the Gump be the Charioteer? Dave, When do we start the next book? Also the checks not in the mail till this weekend but you can count on one from me. Kudos to you for all your work and love of Oz. you do a GREAT job!!!!! Who or what is Enya? What happened to the "Oz Teddy Bears"? I didn't find them. Are they still up somewhere? Barbara, Count me in on the Oz Digest T-Shirt. I haven't even seen it yet but I'm sure I want one. Prices? Atty, You can you send me the text file of _Laughing Dragon_ now? Patrick, Please send me the studies you mentioned...."Sexual Monstrosities in Baum's Books" and "Ethnic Stereotypes in Baum's Books". Aaron, What was the reference to Gayelette that was sexual? I can't find it? I just want to know what the reference was when I read the study I hope Patrick sends me. Also do you have a list of all the Oz Comics? Please remember the "spoiler" announcements. It's very disheartning to read a book that you already know what is going to happen. I knew far in advance of us discussing _Ozma_ that Tip would be Ozma. It would have been so much better if I hadn't known. I know it's more work but it really helps some of us. Thanks! What is the "Royal Society of Oz"? Did anyone get the FX show taped with the Oz collection? Any chance for a copy? PLEEEEEEEASE? What is a heretical book? I understand the point of "non-scholarly posts". Us newbies to the Oz phenonemnon sometimes feel overwhelmed with all the info some of you have, but if you want to be a swan you have to hang with the swans till you are one yourself. So count me in on the swim guys! I'm just dog-paddling as fast as I can but I'm learning lots by just lurking and reading myself. Keep up the good work! Anybody know what happened to the "Yellow Brick Oz Club"? SincOZly yours, Barbara -- ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 14:54:47 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Tyler wrote: >_Ozma Gets Really Pissed off and Cusses and Totally Offends >(Almost) everyone in Oz_...wins the honors as longest title. Wait a minute...Let me check that... Ozma Gets Really Pissed off and Cusses and Totally Offends (Almost) everyone in Oz Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz Yeah...You're right...The longest title for the shortest "book"... :) >The timeliness of the DIgest depends on the volume each >day and Dave's schedule. I don't think it would be feasible for >Dave to commit to a fixed schedule. THe digest simply comes >out when it comes out. Thanks Tyler...You took the words out of my mouth... :) David wrote: >[In _Emerald City_, Ozma]...does nothing to punish [the Phanfasms et al] >after they drink from the Forbidden Fountain. In fairness to Ozma, I think she considered punishing those who had been rendered "as innocent as babies" unjust...I think she had already grown a lot even then since the period of DOTWIZ... I'm picking up a lot of hints from people that they're nearly ready to move on to _Road_...Shall we say we start it in two weeks? Barbara B. wrote: >Kudos to you for all your work and love of Oz. you do a GREAT job!!!!! Thanks. :) >Who or what is Enya? She is an Irish singer/composer...There is some info on her (and a photo) on my Music page: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/Music.html >What happened to the "Oz Teddy Bears"? I didn't find them. Are they >still up somewhere? I'm currently updating my "Gallery" so they're currently not being displayed, but they are still visible by going directly to the URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/OzBears.jpg MORE ON _ALICE_: Sarah wrote: >I'm not fond of the Disney vers either, or Lou Bunin's. My personal favorite >stars....well, I can't remember. Nobody notable. But the costumes --- which >follow Tenniel's illustrations perfectly --- and dialogue are great. BTW, in >the version I'm talking about, Alice's encoutner with the Cheshire Cat in the >tree has been ommited, and replaced by the Tweedles, and the boat ride with >Dodgeson appears at the beginning. This is the same British version I like so much... POLITICS ON THE DIGEST: Steve T. wrote: >Having got into the matter myself, I believe the question of >homosexuality has been covered sufficiently in the Digest... >We are only going to anger one another without accomplishing anything. Based on last couple day's posts, I'm inclined to agree...Indeed, I realize that I've been kind of lax lately about political discussions on the Digest, but Ozma is right now whispering in my ear telling me that it's getting out of hand...Anyone else think I should put my ( or Kambumpo's :) ) foot down on these little sparks before I'm stuck with trying to quench a bonfire? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 27, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:39:07 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 Tyler: Your analysis of the Oz-as-history vs. Oz-as-literature theories with regard to the Magic Belt is right on target. It's also an excellent example of why I find literary Oz discussions much more interesting than historical ones. (despite my earnest desire -- and once belief -- since the age of four that it truly was a history.) It just doesn't make sense to me to run around in circles trying to explain inconsistencies that Baum and other FF authors obviously didn't think were terribly important. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 21:32:43 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Scott: Captain Fyter as the King of Swords sounds good. With Queen Ann as the Queen, and the balance of the Army of Oogaboo as the lesser cards of that suit, since they all were wielding swords as they marched away in TIK-TOK. I'll check your venue when I sign on to send this. Jeremy: Speaking of colleges, I got my alumni newsletter today from my alma mater (Vanderbilt), and was bemused to note that they were patting themselves on the head for holding the tuition increase down so that a year's undergraduate tuition next year is only $20,900. When I started there in 1954 a year's tuition was $500. Sure, there's been inflation, but... Melody: Maybe the Wizard just had Very Red Lips? It happens, y'know... I like Judy Garland as a singing actress very much, but she's neither my favorite female singer or one that I'd have had any particular yen for if she'd been an appropriate age when I was young and in my prime. (In those days I'd have gone for Julie London or Cyd Charisse - and my favorite female singer, without question, at any time, is Ella Fitzgerald. But, then, she's most people's who care about the singing of popular music.) (OK, all you fans of Enya or whoever - let's have a different subject to flame each other on! :-)) Robin: I agree that the best way to find out about one-day memberships at Winkie is to E-mail Peter Hanff. In case Joel doesn't have his E-mail address handy, it's phanff@library.berkeley.edu. Me: Apologies to Bear for some rather grouchy comments. Not that I didn't believe what I said, but if I hadn't just gotten back from a rather tense trip I wouldn't have put them on the Digest. Ken C.: I'm sure John Kennedy can and will defend himself, but in fairness to him, he was referring to what some people think and not saying that he himself believed that homosexuals should be destroyed. In fact, he specifically said he didn't agree with that point of view. You should read the whole post and not respond emotionally to isolated sentences in it. Not but what I sympathize with your getting upset at what a number of people on the Digest have said. But can we leave the subject now? Barbara B.: I think the "reference to Gayelette that was sexual" was only the statement that she and Quelala were going to be married. Presumably even in Oz this implies some amount of sex. There isn't, to the best of my knowledge, a "Royal Society of Oz." There's the "Royal Club of Oz," which is the Books of Wonder/Morrow club that produces THE EMERALD CITY MIRROR (including an Absolutely Marvelous Oz-story serial...:-)). It's more oriented toward fun and less toward scholarship than the IWOC. Both are well worth belonging to if you're an Oz fan. RCOO membership is $9.95 from Books of Wonder, 1-800-835-4315, Item #Z25-09990. (No shipping and handling on this one.) A heretical book is an Oz book that conflicts with the Famous Forty - the series starting with WIZARD and ending with MERRY-GO-ROUND that was published, except for the first, by Reilly & Britton or Reilly & Lee. (The Famous Forty, or FF, frequently conflict with each other in minor ways; one of the fun parts of Oz scholarship is to figure out how to resolve these conflicts.) Examples of heretical books are Philip Jose Farmer's A BARNSTORMER IN OZ, Gregory Maguire's WICKED, and Robert A. Heinlein's NUMBER OF THE BEAST. There is some room for controversy here. I, for instance, do not consider L. Sprague de Camp's "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" to be heretical, and I do consider Marcus Mebes' "Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz" to be heretical. Others differ on both counts. There has, so far, been no equivalent of the Council of Nicaea, much less Chalcedon, on the subject. [Call me Nestorius...] Dave: Oh, I agree that Ozma would consider punishing the Phanfasms et al., after they'd drunk from the Forbidden Fountain, unjust. So would I. But what would be wrong with making Eureka drink from the FF (meaning the Forbidden Fountain, not the Famous Forty...) rather than executing her? (Other than that Ozma hadn't gotten her act together too well at that point. Or if you're "conservative" and think that "victim's rights" demand that Eureka be put to death as a matter of vengeance.) I second Barbara's kudos. Keep up the good work! And I'm off for Zinzinnati in the morning, so I won't respond again before Sunday night or Monday morning. (Anybody know what the source was for the quote I remember from my childhood: "Vas you ever in Zinzinnati?" For that matter, does anybody else ever remember hearing that quote?) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:35:12 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Dave, > Anyone else think I should put my ( or Kambumpo's :) ) > foot down on these little sparks before I'm stuck with trying to > quench a bonfire? I for one would appreciate a change of subject (or subjects) for a while. I would hope this could be accomplished voluntarily. By the way, "Little Sparks"? Bob Spark P.S. Two weeks left for DOTWIZ is fine with me. -- "I love criticism just so long as it's unqualified praise." Noel Coward ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:35:31 -0800 (PST) From: w_baldwin@juno.com (Warren H Baldwin) Subject: Oz Digest Responses to recent Digests: Saroz: Movies Unlimited listed the Peter Sellers _Alice_ in VHS format in their 1996 catalog. I don't have the 1997 catalog, but I have no doubt they still carry it. It was listed as being made in 1972 with an all-British cast. Scott: DOTWIZ in not the shortest Baum Oz book. The Wizard of Oz, Ozma of Oz, The Road to Oz, The Magic of Oz and Glinda of Oz are all shorter -- at least by wordcount. Dave: Put your foot down, but do it gently if possible. W. Baldwin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:23:39 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Scott: While Captain Fyter could be used as the King of Swords, he is not a very well known character, and may not be as recognized. David: I don;t think Eureka comes into play in post-Baum FF either. Bungle is mentioned very briefly in _Royal Book_, but that is the end of the cat news. March Laumer's books are not considered HACC for a variety of reasons, so your story will take precedence. David again: Almost, but not quite. Bear has rarely, if ever, objected to MY poltical comments :-) Nomes: In _The Magic Diamond_ of Oz, we meet the Nome King's brother. Non-FF, of course, but an interesting tale. Reviews: I'd like to publish some BOW reviews, but not just yet... Ken Cope: Bizarre as your posts are, I cannot think of anyone (or their God) who would want you dead, disagree with you though they will. Hopefully, such things will not escalate into something disagreeable. Remember, we are all here because of our love of Oz, and all that it has to teach us. Look, listen, and be well (not in the DEMOLITION MAN sense, by the way). David: Did I say that the FF implies no visits by Dorothy between _Ozma_ and _Dot&Wiz_? If I did, I must have meant that the FF makes no statement or implication one way or the other. The only time it comes close is when Dorothy is describing her visit to Oz to the Wizard. He says "For the second time?" Dorothy agrees and goes on. She does not mention any other visits, but if other visits were extrememly short, say for an afternoon while Uncle Henry was in town, then she would probably not bother. The FF does, however, imply no visists between _Wizard_ and _Ozma_. David once more: Doors were left open only at night, when we were asleep. Not quite the same as being away, but close. Barbara: "Heretical" is a term used mainly by the IWOC, to define an Oz book that is not in line with the Famous Forty, either textually, or in the "kind" of story it is. For example, "Dorothy Returns to Oz" is a very cute story, but it contradicts events that are recorded in the Famous Forty. On the other hand, March Laumers books do not contradict the Famous Forty (or at least the first 36), yet his books are of so different a nature as to be considered not really "Ozzy". Note that not all scholars agree with me that Laumer's books are Textaully accurate to the FF. I believe that they are, though some say they are not. Dave: _Red Reera_ came close to longest title. If you check my personal review chart, you will see that I had to write the other title in a smaller font to get the whole thing one on line! A Plea for Sanity: I have been talking about "The longest Oz title" for two days now. Please, I beg of you all, DO NOT take this as a challenge to break this record! It will result in an escalation of ridiculous titles. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:55:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Homosexuality: I hate the tone of many of the comments lately on the DIGEST, but I hate censorship even more. PLEASE, people, can't we monitor ourselves and not put Dave into a very, very tight spot? My hope is that we can voluntarily stop the nastiness. If not, I'll feel obliged to throw in my own two cents and, as some of you may have noted, I have a heckuva temper when I feel attacked or when someone I'm fond of is slighted. I'm sure some of the comments made were not intended to hurt, but their authors obviously don't recognize how sensitive and painful an issue this can be for some. FWIW, I'm heterosexual. I say this because, in my experience, many people don't understand that a heterosexual can feel very strongly about this kind of intolerance. Ken: I hope I never say or do anything to make you that angry or frustrated with *me*! See you at WinkieCon, right? Bob: The quotation you point out is one I want to use on the Winkie program, but Langley says I can't do it. Why not? It's a perfectly legitimate quotation from Baum and it expresses the Oz concept of friendship very well! I'm still trying to talk her into letting me use it. Cats and extroverts/introverts: Nah. I'm essentially an extrovert, and my preference is clearly feline. At least I *think* I'm an extrovert. Maybe only when surrounded by lotsa nifty people at an Oz convention. I stay pretty much to myself at school...not a lounge-lizard type at all. And I don't like talking on the phone. And I need tons and tons of privacy; my family knows this very well. Jeff's the same way, which may be why we've lasted so long. Our 30th. wedding anniversary is coming up in August...on the same day school starts. (Oh joy.) But he prefers dogs. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:52:30 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave <"belgrave@teleport.com"@teleport.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Dave: Your idea for a badge as well as a t-shirt was a great one. Don't give up on it. It may be an area I may pursue. Anyone know how to do a search for specific words in a MS Word file? Like if I had a file and wanted to find every instance of "Baum" throughout the whole file. Something to ponder.. I remember my grandfather teaching me as a child that everything is either plant, animal, or mineral. I think it would be wise to have the Scarecrow rule over plants, the Lion to rule over animals, and the Tinman rule over minerals. I know that seems rather simplistic and I don't even know why I mention it. Just something I thought of and wanted to share. That's Oz Folks, Barb B. (So you won't get confused with Barbara DeJohn) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:23:07 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave <"belgrave@teleport.com"@teleport.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Sorry for the double post everyone. Sarah: My Tarot cards have; For the Major Arcana- The Wizard is the 5th card, the Hierophant The Yellow Brick Road is the 19th card, the Sun The Minor Arcana is made up up Wands, Swords, Hearts, and Crystals. Dorothy represemts- The seeker of Wands. Scarecrow represents- The seeker of Swords. Glinda represents- The guide of Hearts. All the other cards are from other stories. Let me know if you want more info. Barb B. -- ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 06:07:39 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-26-97 Dave: Yes! Let's try to keep discussion/opinions of politics, religion and sexual orientation off the Digest. Barbara: I taped the FX Collectibles show on 6/25, and will gladly send you a copy. The collection shown was not appealing to me, as it was more movie and stage play oriented. They did have sheet music from a 1902 stage production, and a set of original "waddles". The Yellow Brick Road Club is in limbo, at the moment. When I wrote to Roger Baum, I received a letter informing me that the Yellow Brick Road Publishers, Inc. had been acquired by "a major corporation", who will soon make a public announcement, to that effect. Whether or not the YBR Club will continue is up to the new owners. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:24:58 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Hi everyone, For those who are interested: there is an ad for a Wizard of Oz (MGM) ceramic (?) musicbox (?) thing in this week's TV Guide. From my clear description, you may guess that I am not interested, but it is a piece that I don't recall seeing before. (Is anybody *still* making $ selling these things after the market was flooded in 1989?!?) Re: gays & Oz..... The Cleveland Gay Mens Chorus recently had a WIZARD OF OZ in concert. Missed it because I was in Atlanta. The Atlanta Gay Mens Chorus recently had a tribute to Judy Garland with a musical verison of the Wizard of Oz. Missed is because I had to come back to OH. Bad timing, as both looked good. Cheers, Scott (another "friend of Dorothy") ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:32:50 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 David Hulan wrote: >The definition of "nome" as "one who knows" is in RINKITINK. And it's >not a footnote. It is, however, accurate; this rather surprised me -- I thought Baum was merely engaging in whimsy, but the word is legitimately related to English "know" and Greek "gnosis". (Oddly enough, the "gno" root died out in all the other European languages.) >I thought that TIK-TOK was based on a play, which was based on OZMA. Correct. Baum's introduction to the book is a bit -- err -- disingenuous on that point. >As it turns out, since there seem to >have been 20 human mortals who came to Oz, the odds are roughly 2-1 that >at least one of them was homosexual, if 1 in 20 is in fact the correct >ratio. And if children are actually homosexual (i.e., genetically predetermined), a theory that remains unproven. (I have yet to see a purported "proof" without appalling post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc reasoning.) >That wooden cornet sounds to me like an in-name-only ancestor of the >modern cornet. Anyhow, by the time of DOTWIZ the cornet was essentially >the same instrument we have today. The line of descent is clear and unbroken, from the wooden cornet to metal forms such as the keyed bugle, to the cornet-a-piston. (After all, that's why it was originally necessary to call it "cornet-a-piston" -- to distinguish it from the older form of the instrument.) But yes, the cornet has been pretty much unchanged during this century. The makeup of military bands / wind ensembles has changed somewhat, though. A modern American band is actually dominated by the clarinet tamily; the British go in more for saxophones. Ken Cope wrote ... a good many things in the heat of anger, many of which were -- dare I say it? -- quite bigoted. Yes sir, all them religious-right neo-Nazi Republican capitalist meat-eating homophobic scum -- they're all alike. In fact, they're all together in the conspiracy.... Need I go on? Chill a little. You're being reactionary. (Hey, reaction works the same on either side.) And in particular: >As a matter of fact, one >that John Kennedy seems to think his god would like to see killed. I DID NOT SAY THAT. I EXPRESSLY DENIED IT. Please read before you reply. I pointed out the fallacy of regarding "Everything is permissible as long others aren't hurt" as a universally acknowledged and self-evident axiom so potent as to implicitly choke off all further debate, but that is all I did. On the same subject, David Hulan wrote: It seems to me that there _is_ something of a contradiction in a God saying, "Homosexuality disgusts me, and I want all homosexuals killed," if one also posits that God is the creator of all things and that God is good. Why would God create humans that He wanted destroyed? (Even if homosexuality isn't genetic, all the evidence is that it's something that appears long before a person is old enough to be responsible for it.) But you could say the same thing about Nazis and homicidal child molesters, too. And for those who are not following the thread, no, I am _not_ putting homosexuals into the same class. I am saying that the decision whether to put homosexuals or red-headed people or any other group into that class _is_ a decision, a decision that like other decisions should be _made_, not abdicated out of mere intellectual and moral sloth. It will not do to say "Homosexuality is not a sin because -- heigh-ho -- sin is so boring. Now let me sleep." Even if you want to be neutral on the subject, at least _choose_ to be neutral. Stephen J. Teller wrote: >There IS something inherently wrong in saying, "Homosexuality disgusts >God, and He wants to see all homosexuals killed." ...etc. See above. Finally, to Dave. Some people here are talking about homosexuality, but I'm not. What I'm talking about is, perhaps, well described by something I saw in someones .sig a few days ago: Slogans bad; thinking good! Slogans bad; thinking good! // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:08:59 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bob Spark: I think you're using some kind of fancy hyphen (perhaps you're using dashes rather than hyphens?) in your sign-off Coward quote. At any rate, it comes out =09=09=09=09=09, and is (I suspect) responsible for throwing the last couple of Digests into hexadecimal mode. Could you change it to something from the standard keyboard, so that the Digests will come through unhexed? (The hexies make things hard to read.) David Hulan: The post-Baum authors don't use Eureka as a character in the action, but she gets brief mentions in "Lost King," "Yellow Knight," "Wishing Horse," "Ozoplaning," and "Mimics." (And shows up in an illo in each of "Royal Book" and "Giant Horse.") In the IWOC-published books, she plays a large role in Dick Martin's "Ozmapolitan," although I don't think it has any statements about her history that would conflict with anything you have in your "Eureka." You commented, "However, believers-in-religion condemn non-believers on a regular basis for things that non-believers don't believe do any kind of harm." That's true, but in practical terms attempts to impose a religious code by force on those who don't believe in the religion eventually spark off a rebellion and are overthrown. Apart from the temporary expedient of using force, to get non-adherents of a religion to adopt a behavior considered desirable by the religion's adherents, it is necessary to come up with a non-religious reason for adopting it. Furthermore, it has to be a believable reason (believable to the non-adherents, that is). Ken Cope: By the way (turning to a less personal topic), have you seen the new "Hercules" film? And, if so, what did you think of it? I'm still trying to decide if I want to see it. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:50:52 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline David >Bear only objects to political comments when other people make them. I think you are confusing me with someone else. As I said previously, I don't see how we can avoid them. As you know mine tend to differ from yours. For example, I can't agree with your "revenge" idea. Try out the idea of protection. I think the public is entitled to be protected from dangerous people. And by the way, I don't believe in capital punishment. >Bear: I'm the same age as you (less one year), and I remember those "good old days" very well. They were indeed pretty good if you were a healthy white middle-class heterosexual male. They weren't nearly as good as today if you were sick, or black, or Latino, or poor, or gay, or female. For arguments sake let's grant this is true. So......????? My paper doesn't carry a listing of FX shows. I turned on the TV at 9:55 am just in time to see them saying goodbye to some couple surrounded by Oz dolls. Sigh. At least I now know that "Personal FX" is on at 9 am. Dave - Don't bother putting your foot in the bonfire. Fires burn out rather quickly on the Digest. Don't discount the therapeutic value. Well, it has helped me to have the Digest to deal with today. I don't quite know what to do with myself. My 93-year-old mother died last night and I am numb. She has gone to meet my father on the first nine. Now I'm an orphan. Numbly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:02:26 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Ozzy question: Does anybody know which group does that dance mix song "Get Ready For This?" --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 97 13:43:22 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Ruth wrote: >Ken Cope: By the way (turning to a less personal topic), have you seen >the new "Hercules" film? And, if so, what did you think of it? I'm still >trying to decide if I want to see it. I gather from the ads that it's Greek mythology at a frenzied pace...Maybe someone who is seen it can contradict me. I'd also like to know how close they stick to the story...Of course he slays the hydra -- that's in all the promos -- But what about the other labors? Does he liberate Prometheus? Does he outwit Atlas? Does the presence of Pegasus imply that he performs some labors "imported" from other myths (e.g. slaying the chimera)? Bear wrote: >Dave - Don't bother putting your foot in the bonfire. Fires burn out >rather quickly on the Digest. I hope you're right -- This one seems to be smouldering a long time... Barbara B. wrote: >Your idea for a badge as well as a t-shirt was a great one. Thanks! Anyone else for an Ozzy badge? ( Please!? :) :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 28 - 29, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:47:33 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 Content-disposition: inline Dear Dave, Steve, Tyler, Gordon & others: What can I say? Thank you for your high praise of SBM. It is an advantage to be able to polish one's story without the yearly Deadline Doom the FF Oz historians had to face. The modern word processor also helped in improving "Disenchanted Princess. Yes, I'm as nitpicky with my own work, especially writing, as I am with others. I'm glad you enjoyed reading the story as much as I enjoyed writing it. Which brings me to a cataclysmic conclusion (decision?). Since I probably won't be making it to any Oz conventions this year, anybody who'd like to buy "Disenchanted Princess" from me for $15.00 can do so this July. Postage included. My Snail Mail address is: Melody Grandy, 21 Hazelwood St., Asheville, NC 28806. Maybe that'll get help get Book II on its way. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:10:14 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-97 Hello Digesters, > > Bob Spark: I think you're using some kind of fancy hyphen (perhaps > you're using dashes rather than hyphens?) in your sign-off Coward > quote. At any rate, it comes out =09=09=09=09=09, and is (I suspect) > responsible for throwing the last couple of Digests into hexadecimal > mode. Could you change it to something from the standard keyboard, > so that the Digests will come through unhexed? (The hexies make > things hard to read.) Sorry, I had no intention of sabotaging the Digest. The signature line will disappear forthwith, unless something damned witty arises. I have begun to feel like most signature lines are like most bumper stickers anyway. Amusing the first time but they rapidly become a bore. DaveH47 this most definitely does not apply to yours at the end of the Digest. I love it. Curious though, the Digest as I received it was not afflicted by the "hexies". Bear, I agree with the idea of therapeutic value of extraneous discussion. Some of the continuing ones, however, have about run the limit of their efficacy in my opinion. Also, Bear, please accept my sincere sympathy and condolences on the loss of your mother. I've got one who is 89 and probably will be going soon. The fact that her last years have not been happy ones will (I'm sure) ameliorate my feelings to some extent but I will still feel the loss deeply. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:57:41 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Craig: While it is true that Baum, etc. obviously did not place too much importance on reconciling every little detail in the series, a point has been made previously about that. Specifically, writing the Oz books was, for the most part, a job. I have no doubt that Baum and the others loved Oz, but their main relationship to it wa to crank out one story a year. For example, I heard once that RPT (and many non-Oz authors) got annoyed at fans who would show up and ask them questions about matters that were, to them, insignificant. For us, the fans, we get the really pleasurable task: we get to read the finished product at our leisure, abosrbing details and getting into the series at a level that the authors perhaps cannot, due to their business-like relationship, not that someone like me is dissing business! :-) The reason that people such as myself nit and pick to death is that we truly love Oz for what it is beyond a collection of words on paper. We love the place and all that it represents. We want to explore every nook and cranny of it by experiencing all that Oz has to offer, we hope to make it the best place it could be. I'd say "the happiest" place on Earth (with a slight reference to a topic that the digest has hopefully laid to rest, no pun intended), but we all know Oz isn't really on Earth! Excepting those who follow the Dulabone/Laumer model, of course. _Tik-Tok_ and play: I think Baum was a little unclear in his intro, since he wanted people to realize that the book was not just a clone of the play. Bear: I'd like to offer any support (verbal or spiritual) that I can on the loss of your mother. All I can auggest is that you remember what was, and carry it with you always. Hercu-Rock (That Fred Flinstone for Hercules): Like Dave, I have heard that it's Greek mythology at a fast and humorous pace, "for the nineties" --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 18:53:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Dave, As some of the Digest readers know, I am Deputy Director of The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley. Bancroft has the strongest California history collection in the Far West, so I decided to see what I could track down about train travel for the period under discussion. Travel by train from San Francisco to Modesto in 1905 required a San Francisco Bay ferry crossing from the foot of Market Street to the Oakland Pier (the crossing took about 25 minutes). The service to Modesto was offered by Southern Pacific. Santa Fe also offered a trans-Bay service, but this went from the foot of Market to Richmond (about three cities north of Berkeley) and then followed a different route through the Central Valley, bypassing Modesto. Three SP trains with service to Modesto departed each day: 7:40 p.m., arriving at Modesto at 11:58 p.m., 10:20 a.m., arriving at 3:05 p.m., and 8:20 a.m., arriving at 12:30 p.m. Trains traveling south from San Francisco were not routed over to the Central Valley. The above is from a 1905 copy of Peck's Railway Guide. I was intrigued by David Hulan's comments, and was delighted to learn how the train travel was set up just before the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed so much of San Francisco. The train services were extensive in virtually every direction from San Francisco. There was even a direct train to Pacific Grove (where the Winkie Convention takes place each July). Peter Hanff ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:28:15 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline David - No apology necessary. I'm always happy to receive your >>>-------( o o )---------> David - I think "Vas you ever in Zinzinnati?" is from the same source as my father's often quoted, "Vas you der Charlie?" I never knew the source either? Dick, Warren, Ruth, Robin, etc.? Tyler - First extra spaces and now half size line lengths. Will you get your system under control, please. ;) Barbara - Pull down the EDIT menu and find the FIND command. Then you can search on anything you desire. At least this is what happens on a MAC. :) Still numbly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:32:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Tyler: "Get Ready For This" is by the Dutch Techno Group "2 Unlimited". Also, FYI: this song actually came out in Europe in 1991. Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:58:03 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-97 Content-disposition: inline Dave: >I gather from the ads that it's Greek mythology at a frenzied pace...Maybe someone who is seen it can contradict me. I'd also like to know how close they stick to the story.< In Disney's "Hercules", Hera is Herc's mother---in the myths, she was not his mother. Moreover, she hated Hercules for being Zeus's illegitimate son. But Hera never attacked Zeus directly for his infidelity--she took it out on the girlfriends, even the unwilling ones, and their offspring. (Can you tell I think whoever made up the myths made Hera very unjust? She had a right to be furious, but she should have been mostly furious at her husband.) The 'Hera as Herc's Mom' feature appeared in some publicity material about the movie. Maybe someone else will give you a more complete report once they've seen the movie itself. Robin: You do sound like an introvert. Or mostly an introvert. Supposedly a pure extrovert would have to have somebody around all the time, and a pure introvert would not want to have anything to do with anybody. Fortunately, most of us are a mix of the two. I like lots of privacy, but, like yourself, I like to go out & see people every so often. You're fortunate to be married to another introvert---an introvert-extravert match can be a disaster unless the extravert half is smart enough to have friends to fill the people-need the introvert half cannot fill. As a teenager, I hated to talk on the phone, too! (Which made me feel like a freak because ALL teenagers were supposed to love talking on the phone.) I like talking on the phone, now, but my idea of a nightmare is still a job in sales or telemarketing. Gordon: A topic related to the theme of deprivation you spoke of in DotWiz. Have you noticed how some of Baum's non-human characters rhapsodize about how great it is to have no needs at all? Characters like the Tin Woodman, Scarecrow, Scraps, etc, who do not have to eat, sleep, wear clothes, etc. This accords with the Buddhist philosophy that need and desire are the causes of earthly unhappiness, and the road to happiness (Nirvana) is to rid oneself of all need and desire. No needs or desires = impossible to experience the misery of deprivation. (No, I'm not a Buddhist, but it's interesting how this Buddhist-style thinking surfaces in Baum's work. Maybe all of us love to eat, but haven't there been times we wished we didn't *have* to?) Though they verbally extoll the simple life from time to time, the Tin Woodman & Scarecrow nevertheless live in luxury. Scrap prefers the beauty and luxury of the Emerald City and flatly refuses to return to Pipt's "wizard's den." Was Baum being ironic, here? Dave & Tyler: One book of mine said it best when it said that, in women, men seek a "magical blend of tenderness and power." Well, guess what. That's what women look for in a guy, too. Say, for example, the difference between beating up a girlfriend's mugger, and beating up a girfriend. You know which makes a guy a hero and which one makes him a creep, don't you? :-) The above is an extreme example. Being the right blend of tenderness and strength is admittedly *tricky.* It's too easy to be totally nice and seem weak, or be the other extreme--so totally into power one heedlessly hurts innocent people. It can take years to figure out how to be nice *and* strong in ways that make one a good boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/person. This process is called "becoming mature." I'm still working on it, so don't give up. :-) :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 20:31:49 -0700 From: Ken Cope Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-97 John W Kennedy wrote > Ken Cope wrote > ... a good many things in the heat of anger, many of which were -- > dare I say it? -- quite bigoted. Yes sir, all them religious-right > neo-Nazi Republican capitalist meat-eating homophobic scum -- they're > all alike. In fact, they're all together in the conspiracy.... You probably shouldn't read me when I'm angry. Passion is not anger. I have a great deal of faith that you can argue a point in order to arrive at a conclusion with more skill than to say, "well so are you!" There is no shortage of people whose greatest aspirations elevate every organization to which they belong, which organization, despite its noblest members, is dragged down and discredited by the lowest common denominator; common across all the labels. "Good-deed-doers" was not the topic of my post. I'm a little young to be a curmudgeon, but I hope to be one someday. Bigot is one of the pigeonholes I'm sure I've been stuffed into without parsing everything I said in that last post, and I'll bet it's one of the kinder profiles among the mental pictures some Ozzy digesters must have of me. (I'd like to see a police line-up of all the types I've been dismissed as by what I've had to say over time by those who only know me from my rants here. I'm obviously just like those people who-- fill in the blank.) I'm kind of surprised I haven't been part of a police line-up. I'm angry about people who need to find an organization of folks who dress alike so they can follow them around; the name brand on the club doesn't really matter. High school clique, gang-banger, skin head, Marxists, Atheists, Channelers, Jocks, the Society for Creative Anachronism (wait a minute, I might belong to that last one). Today's Droogies who are tomorrow's Millicents. Any club (except the I.W.O.C. or the M.P.S.C Local 839) that would have me as a member. I'm complaining about those who have abdicated the responsibility of thinking for themselves or owning their opinions. The ones who turn on the TV to learn what to think today. A lot of people like to march, and they like to let somebody else give the order to shoot. A good friend of mine told me the other day, "If we were just a little bit older, and you were a student at Kent State, I'll bet you would have marched, and I would have been proud to be a member of the National Guard that shot you!" You get to act first and think later when it's all spelled out for you. There will always be a club willing to label your humanity divine, while demonizing everybody else's. Some clubs rely on the fact that there is a seeker born every minute. So few comets... The Answer is for sale everywhere, and certainty is quite cheap. I'm not dismissing the search for it, just those who claim they've got it sussed. I've got my suspicions, but I won't make book on many of them. I demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty, to steal another line. And I expect some good storytelling, because the story you believe is what creates your world. Whether the Universe is solipsistic or not, people sure are, and stories are all we've got. People are too inept to carry out a conspiracy successfully long enough to be worth even healthy paranoia. The best conspiracy so far is the one that launched the Constitution of the United States, a pretty darned subversive document. I'm proud of the Supremes this week. > Need I go on? > > Chill a little. You're being reactionary. (Hey, reaction works > the same on either side.) And in particular: A cheap shot that; I'm actually rather pro-active, I solicited the response I knew I'd get from Aaron to make a point that I doubt he'll understand, the old line about how when they went after them, I didn't worry because I wasn't one of them? He's a clever lad, really bright and I want to somehow get through to him to get him to see that he sounds like Wallace Shawn in the Princess Bride, yet he is still so insecure in his sparkling intellect that he has to invoke a deity to back up all his arguments. He is entitled to my opinion. He was certain he knew what I thought about Disney, I chose to paint a picture many haven't imagined, and the stories are true. I have Disney stories that will make anybody's skin crawl. Some of them are nice, though. I don't lament the passing of any golden age nor attempt to preserve or conserve any time that has been, except to act as an archivist of the obscure, as many collectors do. I am anxious that the future time for which I hold hope and from which I suspect I have been displaced by some horrible accident with a time machine may not occur due to some inaction on my part! > >As a matter of fact, one > >that John Kennedy seems to think his god would like to see killed. > > I DID NOT SAY THAT. I EXPRESSLY DENIED IT. Please read before you > reply. I pointed out the fallacy of regarding "Everything is > permissible as long others aren't hurt" as a universally acknowledged > and self-evident axiom so potent as to implicitly choke off all > further debate, but that is all I did. I sure wouldn't have inferred the above statement from your first one, and saying this instead sounds like all you're saying is that the original premise is arguable. So? I'm still not certain that you are saying anything without cancelling both statements out with a lot of double negatives! I've re-reread each statement multiple times. I'm really not trying to be obtuse. Let's help each other out here, at first you say, >There is no formal contradiction in the notion of God saying >"Homosexuality disgusts me, and I want to see all homosexuals >killed." as if that would be the sort of thing God would say, and I can't disagree with the notion of God saying such a thing, I just don't want to associate with people who don't want to argue the point with Him, Her, or whichever of the nine billion genders of God that God might or might not transcend. But what is not formally contradicted? >I happen to think it wrong, as a citizen, as an amateur philosopher, >and as a Christian, but it is not an inherently impossibility to be >dismissed out of hand. Here is where I got into pronoun trouble. Is the "it" you think wrong-- A: the formal contradiction, or its lack-- B: homosexuality (an interpretation easy to make!) C: that if God might think such a thing you disagree with Him... D: that as a Christian you think God might have thought that but He changed His Mind... E: God might be tricky and we'd better make sure he doesn't hurt us or burn us so we'd better just watch out by making sure we don't do anything he might not like... Please recognize that it is quite easy to pop a few too many stacks reading that one. I'm really glad that you clarified your position to David Hulan (sorry David, I didn't read all of Eric Shanower's story) culminating in: ... >Even if you want to be > neutral on the subject, at least _choose_ to be neutral. Violent agreement here, take responsibility, be prepared to be held responsible for the choices you make, a choice you were _told_ to make doesn't count. > Slogans bad; thinking good! Slogans bad; thinking good! Tim Leary as bumper sticker: Think for yourself, question authority. (watch out for those pigeonholes!) Next post will contain spouse Genevieve's musings on her choices for an Oz Tarot deck. Haven't seen Hercules yet, the principle designer was Gerald Scarfe, whose animation was in the whiny misogynistic Pink Floyd film _The Wall_. I'll send a report card later, I hear they lampoon their own marketing machine. I suspect Xena contains far more Bullfinch. As I mentioned in crossed e-mail, Robin, I don't yet know if I will be attending Winkies. I do not want to miss it. I am speaking on an industry panel at the computer graphics conference held this year in LA. For the first time, most of the panelists are holding the discussion in advance of the live program online. I have several long-considered and not necessarily popular opinions about the topic of animation vs. motion capture, an obscure but heated topic. If anybody would like to read some of the postings on the topic, (of which more than a few are mine) here is the URL: http://www.siggraph.org/cgi-bin/s97/WebX.cgi I have to finish production on a video game and finish a short film, featuring a computer animated demon, whose motion is animated, not captured (though he'll claim I was puppeteered in the process). I'll need to complete it in time to be able to properly hobnob with my fellow wizards... Ken Cope Ones & Zeroes SurReal Estate pinhead@ozcot.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:10:05 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-97 Bear: Please accept my sympathy. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 14:18:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-27-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com This weekend has been very exciting for me in two ways. First, my mom's theatre company did their monthly coffeehouse last night, and it was exciting--a comedian/musician and an incredible brass quintet! Also this weekend, I finally got a new and better web browser installed on my computer--Netscape Communicator! Alas, I still have to deal with AOL when waiting (and waiting) (and waiting) to get connected (if I even do), but the AOL browser is far inferior to Netscape Comm (or even Netscape Navigator, which I used at college this past year). So that's why I've been a little lax about replying to the Digest. Luckily, there's only one in my mailbox, so I don't think I missed any after all. Well, here goes-- Royal Society of Oz: There may well be one, only we're not able to be members, I fear--as it would be in Oz itself . . . Eureka's Punishment: Make her drink from the fountain???!!! She's a cat, and therefore deserves quite a bit more respect than that! Besides, it might hurt her felines . . ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 13:21:20 -0500 (CDT) From: dsparker@mail.utexas.edu (Douglass S. Parker) Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27-97 / ZinZinnAti To: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" From the pit of the abyss, a note to David Hulan: >And I'm off for Zinzinnati in the morning, so I won't respond again >before Sunday night or Monday morning. (Anybody know what the source was >for the quote I remember from my childhood: "Vas you ever in >Zinzinnati?" For that matter, does anybody else ever remember hearing >that quote?) Remember it, yes. What memory kicked up to go with it was a radio comedian named Jack Pearl, who had a weekly stint on network under the name of "Baron Munchausen" ca. 1933-34. He did double-dutch dialect, Weber-&-Fields stuff, with throat-growls as needed. Tall stories, told to a sidekick named Charlie, leading to one signature quote: "Vas you dere, Sharlie?" I am not certain, since the Baron wasn't my preferred listening when I was 7 or 8, but I find that I automatically assign "Vas you effer in Zinzinnati?" to him. Of course, it may just have been an inference that I made sometime later from the dialect. Pearl-as-Munchausen was in a movie with Durante and Laurel & Hardy, I find, in 1934: an omnibus comedy called "Hollywood Party." I'm pretty sure that I won't view it unless physically forced, but nostalgia can sometimes be very strong. A word on the good-old-days megillah: I'd feel happier about such discussions if my golden era didn't happen to coincide with the Great Depression and *most* of World War II, when I was growing up in a small town in Indiana. Re Small-Town Trust: My father told me, very regretfully, that we'd have to start locking the front door...ca. 1943 or 1944, I think. Still, it was as paradisiacal as my days have got since. Gene Shepherd time, I suppose. When it was okay--at least within a limited context--to be fairly poor. And things could only get better. Tuition? I can poormouth fairly well, until someone comes along from the 1930's or before. When I went off to the U of Michigan in early 1945, out-of-state tuition was $100; instate, $60. When I got out of the Navy, both had zoomed to $150. Gad. Enough memory lane. Heff goot trip. doug parker ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 28 Jun 97 15:41:36 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TO BEAR: I join everyone else in expressing my condolances... BOB SPARK'S SIGNATURE: It's not (nor is anything following in the Digest) Hexed at my end... It must have something to do with the server(s) receiving the Digest... WHEN IN ANCIENT ROMAN MYTHOLOGY, DO AS THE 1990'S ROCK STARS DO...: Tyler wrote: >Hercu-Rock (That Fred Flinstone for Hercules): >Like Dave, I have heard that it's Greek mythology at a fast and >humorous pace, "for the nineties" Which means that in a quarter- or half-century it will be hopelessly dated...As opposed to Disney's early works like _Snow White_ which weren't made "for the thirties" or any other decade, and so are just as enjoyable for all time! (Can you imagine what the Oz books would be like if they had been made "for the nineties"???) I agree, Melody, that Hera's "blame the victim" attitude to the unwilling "lovers" and to the totally innocent offspring was very unfair, to say the least... Bear wrote: >Barbara - Pull down the EDIT menu and find the FIND command. Then you can >search on anything you desire. At least this is what happens on a MAC. :) The "Start" menu in Windows 95 now has a "Find" as well now (YAY!!!), and it supports wildcards! (To make up for the lack of wildcard support in Windows Explorer...GRRR.) Sorry about the delayed Digest -- There's an Oz-related thread on the Red Dwarf List now, and I have to spend time weeding them out of the Ozzy Digest before I send it out... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JUNE 30, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 18:08:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 Re writing in anger: True, some of the most unpleasant things ever written were written in such a state. But some of the most incredible things ever created were done so in the midst of depression (think Van Gogh, etc). I've not done a study, but I'd venture to guess that there are/were geniuses who created because of the emotion anger creates (and the energy thus derived). None of which is to excuse people who've snapped on the Digest (myself being the only example I can think of at the moment), but we should have understanding. Dave: You cut a bit off my post! Am I thus to be reduced (at last to nothing)? I'm not really angry, more amused than anything (especially since I have no way of knowing how much or what I said in the part you cut off . . .). Red Dwarf Mania: I think this is really racist of you all--I mean, what's wrong with green dwarves? Blue ones? Not to let that color my (our) thoughts, Jeremy and Kiex ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 17:29:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 Doug: Thanks for identifying the source of the dialect lines. I remember them from my dad...esp. "Vas you dere, Charlie?" in response to any argument one of us might have raised against something he took to be true. The moment I read David's post, I heard my dad's voice in my head. Bear: This time I'll post in the DIGEST 'cause I think it may be helpful to more than just you. One thing that sometimes helps put grief to rest is to write about the person you've lost. Jot down memories, good and not-so-good. Write a description, physical and non-physical. Write a letter of farewell to her. Any and all of these techniques may be helpful, although they all involve exposing some sensitive nerve endings during the writing process. What it does, though, is to offer an opportunity for some closure...like a funeral, but more personal. And never forget that you are not alone. There are people who care about you. Ken: I now officially dub you a full-fledged curmudgeon. Full rites to follow at WinkieCon, if you can get there. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 19:06:45, -0500 From: Donald_Davis@prodigy.com (MR DONALD T DAVIS) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 How was the Ozmopolitan Convention this year? I have been attending them for the last 4 years but this year I could not attend because I bought a car and also my sister was getting married. So if anyone could just give a quick review of it and the new location it would be much appreciated!!! Also if anyone would like to E-Mail about Oz collecting or just would would like to have a Oz pen pal please E-mail. I have been a way for a little way from talking, thinking, and collecting Oz because I have busy with work but everything is finally calmed down so please E-Mail me with anything!!! Thanks Don!! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 19:15:02 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline My thanks to all of you who extended your sympathies. They were very greatly appreciated. I will be going up to Kennewick for the memorial service and to attend to "things" next Wednesday. I will be back Saturday, July 5th and try to catch up with you all. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 19:53:55 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 Content-disposition: inline Dear Bear: Condolences on the death of your mother. At least you got to enjoy her for a long time--mine died when I was two months old so I never got to know her. Again, my sympathies. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 20:27:02 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 Tyler: As someone who's also a fan who truly loves Oz and all it represents, I couldn't agree with you more that we have the truly pleasurable task of reading the final product at our leisure, absorbing details and getting into the series at a level that even the authors perhaps cannot. But here's the rub: the details that we take pleasure in vary from person to person. As someone whose undergraduate degree is in English, I love Oz as literature. As a book collector, I love learning about and acquiring scarce states and editions. When I was a child, Oz as history was also important to me, although I was never bothered by inconsistencies. However, I couldn't care less now about how "charged" the Magic Belt was at various times and places - especially since I don't recall any evidence that Baum etc. ever conceptualized it along those lines. (I could be wrong; I haven't read many of the books in years.) To those of you who care about Oz as history, I'm glad for you; I am simply stating my preferences. That's one of the beautiful things about Oz - it can be enjoyed on so many different levels. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:05:03 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline More Work: Okay. I think I've figured out a way to write text the full width of the screen, yet avoid double-spaces. This problem is obviously not affecting other people on CompuServe. How do you guys prepare your posts to the Ozzy Digest? Also, do you hit the ENTER key, or just write long paragraphs without hard returns? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 21:30:41 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-29-97 Bear: Re; "Zinzinnati", Doug Parker beat me to it,but I agree with him that Jack Pearl/Baron Munchausen is the probable source, from his radio show of the middle 30's. My Dad was always mimicing Pearl with the "Vas you dere, Sharlie?" line. Bob: I haven't experienced the dreaded hexes in your Coward quote. Melody: So NOW you're dropping the price of SBM1! (Only kidding :-)) If additional sales will hasten publication of SBM2, I'll buy a few more, for my grandchildren! Dick ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:56:55 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 6/27 Digest, David Hulan asks if we remember a certain "Zinzinnati" quote. David, I do not remember that, but I do recall, "Who put the zin in Zinzinnati? Who put the zin in zincere?" :-) And Tyler Jones says that Captain Fyter as the King of Swords in an Oz Tarot deck. Tyler, we would recognize him. I think that the people who would not recognize the good captain would also not recognize many of the characters used in any full Oz Tarot deck (which has 78 cards, IIRC). Speaking of Captain Fyter, at the end of _Tin Woodman_ Ozma sends Fyter "into the Gillikin Country, with instructions to keep order among the wild people who inhabit parts of that unknown country of Oz." What did happen to the captain? Barbara Belgrave asks how to find specific words in a MS Word file. Rather than tell her that, let me explain how to find the information: While in MS Word, Click on Help in the Menu line. Click on Index in the pull down menu. Look up the Find Command and associated references. Dear Bear, all of us are saddened by your great loss, and some even understand how you feel. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:34:11 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97] Since this post which I tried to send last Friday apparently didn't get out, I am resending it now. I would add my sympathies to Bear. I know how he feels. My parents died within a few months of each other in 1980. It is Monday and I am still in my office. If they keep out until Thursday I will be happy. Anyway, I hope to see many of you at Winkies. Steve T. Message-ID: <33B3EBE3.653E@pittstate.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 09:48:29 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Robin: > I thought that TIK-TOK was based on a play, which was based on OZMA. I > know Baum refers to the play in his introduction to TIK-TOK, so I > thought the order was the other way round. And I'm pretty sure that the > Rose Kingdom in the play - and later the book - was based on the > Mangaboos, though I don't have any direct evidence. > THE TIK-TOK MAN OF OZ (which preceeded the book version of TIK-TOK) was based partly on OZMA, but really as much on the 1902 musical version of THE WIZARD OF OZ, a financial bonanza which Baum attempted unsuccessfully to repeat the rest of his life. The Rose Kingdom was based more on the Poppy field in the musical than on the Mangaboos; it was the excuse for a female chorus with nice legs (the Sunflowers in LAND OF OZ served the same function in THE WOGGLE-BUG). > > I hope your eviction from your office won't interfere unduly with your > ability to respond to the Digest. > I have managed to stay in my office so far. I hope they don't chase me oout for the next week, then off to California, and I have no hope of getting back in after that. But I will do my best to keep up. Barbara asks: "What is a heretical book?" As the originator of the phrase (in Oz terms) I feel I should answer. A heretical book is one that contradicts in substantial and significant ways the "canon," which consists of FF. DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ, BARNSTORMER, and WICKED, and WAS are four of the most definitely heretical books. Any book that uses the 1939 film as its primary source would be heretical (i.e. THE LIZARD OF OZ). Books that are basically consistant with FF are apocryphal or deutero-canonical. A book does not become heretical if it has minor inconsistancies (SCALAWAGONS is not heretical because Sir Hokus is still around, nor is MAGICAL MIMICS heretical because the Guardian of the Gates and the Soldier with the Green Whiskers are treated as a single person.) BTW Barbara, welcome aboard the swanmobile. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:24:15 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Typo alert: "=" not "+" http://venues.firefly.com:80/venues?venueid=1153 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:29:04 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-27 & 29-97 Back now until Winkies... 6/27: Craig: Although Tyler said it very well in his post of 6/29, I wanted to concur with him regarding the efforts of some of us "to run around in circles trying to explain inconsistencies that Baum and other FF authors obviously didn't think were terribly important." When a world is as "three-dimensional" as Oz (to use Warren Hollister's term), some of those who love it will invitably try to iron out the apparent difficulties caused by the fact that the author(s) didn't always remember from one book to another what they'd said. If such discussions bore you, by all means skip them - as I, for instance, frequently skip (or at most skim) discussions of points of distinction among various printings and editions of the books, which are irrelevant to _my_ interest in Oz. Warren: DOTWIZ is longer by wordcount than WIZARD, OZMA, MAGIC, and GLINDA? I'm really surprised at that; it feels much shorter. I haven't run wordcounts myself on the various books, but I assume you have, so I'll take your word for it. Tyler: The Nome King's brother in MAGIC DIAMOND OF OZ? I don't remember any such appearance, and a quick re-scan through the book doesn't reveal any nomes at all in it, though I might have missed a brief mention somewhere. (But it's not that long a book.) Are you sure you're not thinking of CORY IN OZ? There's a brother of the Nome King who's a major character in that one. (And it's one of the better Buckethead books as well; I rate it higher than any other I've read except DISENCHANTED PRINCESS (of course) and maybe BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN.) Which reminds me that I've read (or tried to read) several more Buckethead books recently and need to do reviews of them for you. Incidentally, I checked your new Web site 2-3 days ago and you hadn't posted the reviews I sent you of BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN and TIN CASTLE; are they still pending or did they get lost? I can re-send if necessary. Quick ratings for the Digest - if you want details, go to Tyler's site when he's had a chance to post the reviews: BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN OF OZ, by Greg Gick - ****1/2 THE TIN CASTLE OF OZ, by Peter Schulenberg - ***1/2 THE MAGIC DIAMOND OF OZ, by some grade-schoolers - **1/2 VEGGY MAN IN OZ, by Nate Barlow - *1/2 THE HAUNTED CASTLE OF OZ, by Marcus Mebes - *** THE CROCHETED CAT IN OZ, by Hugh Pendexter III - ****1/2 And that catches me up with the Buckethead books that I recently bought, though I should go back and write a review of CORY (which I've owned for some time), since no one else seems to have done so and it's one of their better books. >The FF clearly implies that there have been no visits by >Dorothy between _Ozma_ and _Dot&Wiz_. That strange, >surreal story _Song of Oz_ may have only been a dream. That's what you said in the 6/25 Digest. I certainly agree that there's strong evidence that Dorothy didn't visit Oz between WIZARD and OZMA, but the change in arrangements, though not _requiring_ a visit between OZMA and DOTWIZ (Ozma could have just sent Dorothy a note by Magic Belt, say, or Dorothy could have written up a big note to hold up for Ozma to read in the Magic Picture one Saturday morning, or both), is most easily explained that way. Barb B.: You can use the "Find" command (under the "Edit" menu) to locate every occurrence of a given word in an MS Word file, if what you want to do is go through it looking at the context of the word. If you want to find out how many times the word appears in the file, an ingenious way is to use the "Replace" command to search for the string you want and replace it with some character that doesn't appear in normal text (a backslash is usually good, or the grave accent in isolation). Word will then tell you how many times it made the replacement. Before you do anything else, go back and replace your character with the original string. (This works for any version of Word for the Mac, and Word 6 for Windows; I can't speak for other versions of Word for PCs.) "Animal, vegetable, or mineral" is a classic breakdown, although strictly speaking science breaks things down further - fungi, for instance, and bacteria are none of the above, but as different from animals and vegetables as those two are from each other. And I think there are a couple of other "kingdoms" as well. And they only apply to concrete entities in any case; what is "truth," or "America"? But this is nit-picking (one of my favorite pastimes :-)); having the Scarecrow, Lion, and Tin Woodman rule over one each of the three "kingdoms" is at least an interesting concept, though it has no backing in the Oz books. (The Lion is King of Beasts, but the animal kingdom also includes birds and fish and other forms of life that he doesn't rule. The other two ruled territories, and probably only the humans within those territories.) John K.: I don't quite see what your discussion about Nazis and homicidal child molesters has to do with what I said. Or are you saying that God wants Nazis and homicidal child molesters destroyed? Ruth: > You commented, "However, believers-in-religion condemn non-believers >on a regular basis for things that non-believers don't believe do any kind >of harm." That's true, but in practical terms attempts to impose a >religious code by force on those who don't believe in the religion >eventually spark off a rebellion and are overthrown. "Eventually," however, can be a long time, if those who believe in the religious code are in a substantial majority. Bear: If you don't believe in capital punishment you're the first self-styled conservative I've heard take that position; certainly it's a major campaign issue that the Republicans use over and over again. But laying that aside, if your assertion that "It seems as though the liberal usually relates to the criminal while the conservative relates to the victim," means, "I think the public is entitled to be protected from dangerous people," how does this relate to the punishments, or lack thereof, of Jim and Eureka? Both of them were sent back to America (admittedly, at their own request), where the public (in Oz) would be protected from them, and there's no evidence that doing anything else to them would increase the protection of the public, even in America. What do you, as a conservative who relates to the victim, think should have been done to them? Public flogging? Imprisonment for some lengthy period? Rather than debating abstract principles, how about a concrete example? If you grant for argument's sake that this is a better time than the '40s and '50s for everyone but healthy white middle-class heterosexual males, then you're saying that it's better for around 2/3 of the population. Unless you consider the part of the population you personally belong to to be more important than the rest, that implies to me that overall today is better. Certainly any change will have its negative as well as its positive aspects; one can only judge on the overall balance. I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. My mother is considerably younger, but with her Alzheimer's everything but her body is likely to be gone rather quickly as well, and I'm having to steel myself for that. Dave: A badge? Sure! Count me in. (When do we find out how much we need to send Barbara for the T-shirts, or you for the badge?) 6/29: Melody: I recommend that everyone on the Digest who doesn't already have a copy of DISENCHANTED PRINCESS order one Immediately! Great story, great art - worth the $25 that Buckethead charges, and a steal at $15! (And then maybe THE FLYING SORCERER can make it to print so that someone besides Steve Teller can read it! I'm tired of being envious...) Bob: It's only certain ISPs who get the "hexies" because of oddball characters. I'd get it when I was on AOL, but since I've moved to NetSource I haven't seen it. Still, omitting the non-standard characters is a courtesy to those whose ISPs are less sophisticated. Peter H.: Thanks for the info on train travel in 1905! It seems to me to confirm my opinion that Modesto was much too close to San Francisco for Dorothy to have boarded before lunch and not be scheduled to arrive before midnight. Melody: Hera was certainly unjust, but she had the disadvantage that her husband was the ruler of the gods and more powerful than all the rest of them put together, so she couldn't very well take her wrath out on him. So she had to do it in sneaky ways, taking it out on his mistresses and offspring. (Bear: I am not trying to justify Hera's actions. There is a difference, whether you can see it or not, between trying to understand why a person - or goddess - does something and excusing it.) I am sort of curious why they use the Greek names for the gods and goddesses and the Latin name for Herc, though. If they're going to use "Hercules" rather than "Herakles" (which I'll admit is more familiar to American audiences), I'd think they should use "Jupiter" and "Juno" and so on. I don't hate to talk on the phone, but I hate initiating phone calls. I know how often I get interrupted by the phone at inconvenient times (though with the advent of the answering machine, it's not quite as bad), and can always envision the person I'm calling being similarly interrupted by my call. I think another example of the "no needs" thrust in Baum is his invention of the "square meal tablets," which IIRC turned up in PATCHWORK GIRL and weren't mentioned again. These allowed Shaggy to resemble the animated inanimates like Scraps and the Scarecrow in not needing ordinary food, but also in losing the esthetic pleasure of eating. I believe that their disappearance after that one mention is evidence that Baum thought this "no needs" business could be carried too far. Jeremy: I wasn't suggesting that Eureka be forced to drink from the Forbidden Fountain as anything but an alternative to execution. I think she'd have preferred that. Doug: Thanks for the information on Baron Munchausen. Dave: In fact, HIDDEN VALLEY was deliberately written "for the fifties," which is probably why it's easily the most dated of the FF. The others for the most part are quite timeless, though EMERALD CITY can be dated fairly well (not within 2-3 years, but to the decade of the nineteen-oughts) and the two Speedy books (though among my favorites) do reveal enough about current technology that they're datable to the between-the-wars era. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:46:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 Tip: Now I must be carfeful to say "friends with Dorothy" not "Friend of Dorothy!" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:34:08 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: "Wizard Of Oz" (fwd) As some of you may know, the "My Favorite Fairy Tales" video series had a Wizard of Oz short. This series was directed by Robert Barron, who later served as an assistant story editor on the 1991 ("Tinmanator") film. Unfortunately, this message seems to suggest he cannot remember "My Favorite Fairy Tales": Scott ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) From: RobtVB@aol.com Subject: Re: "Wizard Of Oz" The only "Wizard Of Oz" I recall having worked on was an animated cartoon version distributed by Saban Entertainment. It originated as a Japanese cartoon, then Saban bought the rights, we rewrote the dialogue and dubbed it into English and re-released it as a Saban product. (A very common practice, as you may already be aware.) I believe Eric Rollman was the nominal producer on this project, but we have cranked out literally thousands of hours of children's programming over the years, and I doubt Eric would remember any more about this particular one than I do. Your most likely source of information would be Tony Oliver, whom I believe is still on staff at Saban. He was the primary story editor on this project, and he and his wife, Barbara. wrote the script for the English version. Last time I was in touch with Tony, his e-mail address was: Tol2@aol.com If that fails, you could try writing him % Saban, via snail mail. I hope this was somewhat helpful. Sorry I couldn't be more informative. Robert Barron ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:31:03 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 Melody: Eric Richard (esricha@cord.iupui.edu) is a straight Judy Garland fan, as is Jerry O'Zee. Dick: Was the collector on the June Personal FX show a re-run of Jane Albright, or was it someone else? I noticed in DOTWIZ that there is a reference to the Great Outside World as "the real world," but I can't remember if this was spoken by Zeb, Dorothy, or Eureka. This wouldn't seem to make sense were it Dorothy. Well, I haven't seen _Hercules_ yet, but in this version, they made Hear Herc's natural mother and Hades the enemy (in true Disney fashion), John Musker and Ron Clements , the filmmakers, described it as _It's a Wonderful Life_ with Arnold Schwarzenegger's body. Melody: Actually, Hera did take it out on Zeus, once. There is a passage in _The Iliad_ attempting for comic relief where Zeus punishes her for trying to punish him. I'm 21, and I still hate talking on the phone with people, and always let the machine answer, but typically, my friends (on the rare occasion when they call), don't like the machine. I'm considering picking it up since there is usuallu one midday call that is a hang-up, which I hope is Katherine trying to reach me, though it probably isn't... Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 01:26:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Dave, Lurline's Machine will not accept Laumer's view of Ozma hook, line, and sinker. For what it does accept, that you will have to wait until publication. Also: Speaking of Red Dwarf, I fully blame you for inspiring me to read all the Red Dwarf scripts, which are highly creative and addictive. Thanks for several hours of reading pleasure. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 97 11:53:43 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jeremy wrote: >You cut a bit off my post! Am I thus to be reduced (at last to nothing)? I double-checked, and I put into the Digest exactly what I received as a submission...I suggest you discuss the matter with Kiex...She may be editing your posts... :) Aaron wrote: >Also: Speaking of Red Dwarf, I fully blame you for inspiring me to read >all the Red Dwarf scripts, which are highly creative and addictive. >Thanks for several hours of reading pleasure. You're welcome. :) Since I incessantly plug Oz on the Red Dwarf list, I feel it's only fair that I occasionally plug _Red Dwarf_ here. :) "HOMOSEXUAL DISCUSSION": This thread had been growing increasingly more inflamatory and less Ozzy, so I have decided to "lay down the law" on this one...No further Digest postings relating to this thread will be accepted. Anyone who wishes to continue the homosexual discussion must do so in private. I apologize to those who I censored in today's Digest to this end, but I really feel this thread must come to an end. "THE DREAMS THAT YOU DARE TO DREAM": It finally happened last night! I FINALLY HAD AN OZZY DREAM!!! I dreamed I was in this bookstore in the middle of nowhere and found this book called _The Ozzy Ozziness of Oz_...It had a cover containing MGM images of the characters, Emerald City, etc., but the text was a collection of FF-consistant short stories by Oz fans. One in particular was a story called, "An Undocumented Episode in the Finding of Ozma"..."Finding"???...This couldn't have related to either _Land_ or _Lost Princess_ because Kabumpo was in it, but then since when do dreams make sense (IS there another book in which Ozma gets "Lost"?) Then as I was perusing the book, *Ozma herself* appeared(!), and sure enough, she looked just like ABBA's Frida(!!!) only now she could even *sing* like Frida, and proceeded to do so, first singing a ballad that told her life story from boyhood to womanhood :) , and then she performed one of Frida's songs, _Alska Mig Alltid_ ( Get a Swedish Dictionary and look it up! :) ) and kept eye-contact with me through the whole song. At last! An Ozzy dream! May there be many more! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************