] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 1-2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:40:34 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal david wrote: > > I am sort of curious why they use the Greek names for the gods and > goddesses and the Latin name for Herc, though. If they're going to use > "Hercules" rather than "Herakles" (which I'll admit is more familiar to > American audiences), I'd think they should use "Jupiter" and "Juno" and > so on. > Because then Hades would have to be named "Pluto!" Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:54:41 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 David Hulan, > It's only certain ISPs who get the "hexies" because of oddball > characters. I'd get it when I was on AOL, but since I've moved to > NetSource I haven't seen it. Still, omitting the non-standard > characters is a courtesy to those whose ISPs are less sophisticated. As I previously said, I have done away with the signature file that supposedly caused your trouble. I would have no problem omitting non-standard characters if I knew what you are talking about. I'm all in favor of courtesy. Sorry for my ignorance, possibly you could enlighten me (directly, if you feel it is not appropriate for the Digest). Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:03:14 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 DAVID HULAN: >If you grant for argument's sake that this is a better time than the >'40s and '50s for everyone but healthy white middle-class heterosexual >males, then you're saying that it's better for around 2/3 of the >population. Unless you consider the part of the population you >personally belong to to be more important than the rest, that implies to >me that overall today is better. Certainly any change will have its >negative as well as its positive aspects; one can only judge on the >overall balance. so you're saying that 2/3 of the world's population is healthy, white, middle-class, heterosexual, and male? damn, that surprises me... even if you're only talking about the U.S. population (and there are other countries, surprise surprise), isn't the gender distribution close to 50-50? and considering the entire world (which i am), taking into account the huge indian (from india, not native american) and chinese populations alone, not to mention that little continent called africa, how can one straight-facedly assert this 2/3 figure? i'd expected more thoughtfulness from you. tsk, tsk. DAVE HARDENBROOK: >"HOMOSEXUAL DISCUSSION": >This thread had been growing increasingly more inflamatory and less >Ozzy, so I have decided to "lay down the law" on this one...No further >Digest postings relating to this thread will be accepted. thank you, thank you, thank you! there's only so much inanity i can stomach. this action merits sainthood. i was losing patience rapidly. >One in particular was a story called, "An Undocumented Episode in the >Finding of Ozma"..."Finding"???...This couldn't have related to either >_Land_ or _Lost Princess_ because Kabumpo was in it, but then since when >do dreams make sense (IS there another book in which Ozma gets "Lost"?) ozma gets "lost" in _forbidden fountain_, and kabumpo is certainly in that book. perhaps that was the inspiration for your dream. of course, if you haven't read _fountain_ yet, then this is pretty eerie. * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:43:57 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 Remember, "The train from 'Frisco was very late." (as far as runtimes go for CA trains). ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:43:15 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 Robin (and others): "Vas you dere, Sharlie?" is something my father also used to say frequently, but without attributing it. "Vas you effer in Zinzinnati?" isn't something I heard from my father, but elsewhere - I have no recollection of where or in what context, since Cincinnati wasn't a place I had any connection with to speak of until I was in my thirties. (The only exception is a train-changing story that took place there when my mother and brother and I traveled from Nashville to Cleveland to visit my aunt there during the war, but I know that had nothing to do with my hearing the phrase.) Donald: I did a fairly long report on the Ozmopolitan Convention for the 6/11 Digest. If you weren't getting the Digest then, E-mail me and I'll send you a copy. I thought it was an excellent convention, myself. Or maybe I'll just E-mail you a copy anyhow; it's no big deal. Earl: Captain Fyter is only mentioned once more in the FF after TIN WOODMAN, when he's a guest at Ozma's birthday party in MAGIC. I don't know if any of the later non-FF books have used him or not, though I don't recall an instance in one that I've read. (Of course, he hasn't been PD too long - only since 1994, I think.) My guess is that he got wet and rusted again at some point, since the Gillikin country still seems pretty wild through the later books. Probably Ozma hasn't remembered to look for him in the Magic Picture (after all, he didn't spend much time in the EC), and if it was mentioned in the Great Book of Records it probably said something like "Rain lets Gillikins run wild," or some such that she didn't realize meant the Tin Soldier had rusted. Steve: My opinion is that no FF book is heretical, by definition, though some of them contradict other FF books more than a little. But then, that's true of the Bible as well, after all. (And it's a good deal less traumatic to try to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Oz books than in the Bible.) Dave: I think it was about time to tell people to take the homosexuality discussion to private E-mail. Considerably more heat than light was starting to be generated, and the Ozzy connection had been defined and settled days ago. *Neat* Ozzy dream! I wish I'd have one - though I'd rather have Polychrome appear than Ozma. And I'd probably end up whistling Chopin's _Fantasie Impromptu_. (That's the kind of obscure joke I tend to put in my books that make some people think they lack humor...) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:53:57 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 David, in TLAAOSC, it says that the Gnome King has children, and in exchange for gifts for them, the Gnome King gave Santa Claus his sleighbells. Could Ruggedo be generous? Or is it not Ruggedo? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:58:29 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-25-97 > ====================================================================== > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:42:13 -0500 (CDT) > From: atty242@mail.utexas.edu (Atticus) > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-24-97 > > SCOTT H.: > >Dave: We have the same problem. What really gets me is the jerks who > >assume that because I don't like football and don't have a girlfriend that > >I must therefore be gay. I guess this shows that I have to work with > >immature high school students. > > my empathy AND sympathy. just remember, it hurts 1000 times worse to have > the "F" word thrown at you when you really are gay. > I'm not so sure... and there is no way to ever really know, since we can't get into each other's heads. FWIW, lies set you back, while the truth will set you free. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:12:56 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-26-97 > Ruth: > > >I'm surprised by your comment that you "don't condone kinkiness."< > > As in hetero and homo kinkiness. In being against abuse of > life-giving powers, I'm pretty old-fashioned and non-discriminatory. I've > made it pretty clear in the past that I'm not for heterosexual misbehavior, > either. Going into detail on the harm that sort of abuse can do, as Robin > says, seems inappropriate for the Ozzy Digest. Biblically, life is > considered sacred, and so is anything connected with giving life. Hence, I > remained a maiden 'till I got married. > I agree. Of course, I'm 21, and I've never even kissed a girl, (this gets out and the accusations appear, particularly since none of my female friends seem interested appear) unless one counts when Deidre Taylor kissed me on the cheek, but I didn't kiss her, so it shouldn't count. I hugged her, but it was Fuzzy Lane, at a youth group rally. That's what we're supposed to do then. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:36:26 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Kiex: FTR, I believe there are only red, white and brown dwarfs, the last one being the rarest of them all. However, I believe they all have equal respect for one another. Earl: In or out of the FF, I believe that was the last we heard from the valiant Captain. Presumably, he is still out there somewhere doing his duty, provided he has enough oil. David: On second thought, Ruggedo's brother may have appeared in the earlier _Acinad Goes to the Emerald City of Oz_, the prequel to _Magic Diamond_. David: As I recall, only Shaggy and the Wogglebug were turned on to the Square Meal tablets. The Wogglebug's students did not care for them too much. Dave: Way to go! Hopefully, your Ozzy dream will reverberate and we will all be blessed. The only dream I had was once again working at the Golden Arches. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:46:00 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 6-30-97 sahutchi: The Oz collectors on last week's Personal FX show were Ann & James Lang. Jane Albright's collection was far more impressive, at least to me, it was. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:29:10 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-29-97 A little pressed for time here.... Ken, I think we have worked around to agreement. Please understand that in the earlier part of my last message I wasn't trying to _debate_ with you -- more like throw a bucket of cold water -- oops! that's not a very good metaphor to use in the OZzy Digest is it? :-) To try to state my original point once more, I do NOT think that God wants to see homosexuals killed (or whatever), but I do think that someone who believes so cannot simply be dismissed as though he had expressed belief in a four-sided triangle, with a word or two of Barney / Smurf / Dr. Quinn "niceness" moralizing, as though that settled the question. You know, it's funny. All my life, I've regarded myself as (in 20th-century postwar American terms) a liberal. But it's always the liberals I get in trouble with (as before, on the "feminism" issue). I fear that people tend to assume that when I show I'm against knee-jerk liberalism, they assume I'm a right-winger, when I'm really just violently opposed to knee jerks. * * * Report to all on "Hercules". I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've seen the comic book (which is in digest format, and made from cels). If you're looking for Edith Hamilton, you'll be sadly disappointed. If, on the other hand, you're looking for a modern-day Offenbach operetta -- well, I haven't heard the music yet, but as far as the book goes.... // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 09:11:38 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 > > "THE DREAMS THAT YOU DARE TO DREAM": > It finally happened last night! I FINALLY HAD AN OZZY DREAM!!! > I dreamed I was in this bookstore in the middle of nowhere and > found this book called _The Ozzy Ozziness of Oz_...It had a cover > containing MGM images of the characters, Emerald City, etc., but > the text was a collection of FF-consistant short stories by Oz fans. > > -- Dave Congratulations and welcome to the club of true addicts. Fred Meyer's Christmas Cards for years carried some of his dreams. I could never remember the specific details of mine. Of course the number of new Oz books has skyrocked in recent years, thanks (in part) to Books of Wonder and Buckethead. Steve T. P.S. I'm still here. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 11:33:31 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Scott Hutchins: The little creatures in Neill's picture of the black pit ("Dorothy and the Wizard") might be Nomes wandering about in the earth. Melody Grandy: It isn't so much the odd coloring in the "Dorothy and the Wizard" color plates of the Wizard that bothers me as the odd shading in the b&w illos. The Wizard looks in many of them as if he is wearing clown makeup and/or suffers from redness of the nose from too much drinking. David Hulan: Strictly speaking, the cornet was originally (as the name implies) a small horn, and made out of an animal's horn. When the technology developed to make "horns" out of wood and out of metal, it was something of a toss-up which things developed as "brass" and which as "woodwinds," and there was some experimentation back and forth. The flute is still considered a woodwind, although sometime in the 19th century the switch was made from boxwood to silver as the material of choice. (And James Galway plays a gold flute.) Of course, it would seem peculiar to call something made out of silver (or gold, either) a brass. What are the aspects of "Hidden Valley" that strike you as particularly 50ish, unless you'd rather leave that topic until the book comes up for group discussion (but that will be a long time)? A couple of small examples of datable bits in the Oz books (apart from Neill's use of current fashions in clothes for illos) are the movie-industry info in "Lost King," and the origin of Charley McCarthy in "Magical Mimics." Peter Hanff: Thanks for the train schedule info. Robin Olderman and Richard Randolph: I suppose the "Vas you dere, Sharlie?" line must have been quoted widely, applicable as it was to so many situations. I remember running across it in a story in an early "F&SF" (by Gordon Dickson, I think, unless it was Poul Anderson). As something still current in quotation in the far future, it seems a bit unlikely -- but possible! Earl Abbe: Robert Pattrick wrote a pleasant short story about later doings of Captain Fyter. It's included in the collection the IWOC did of his work. He gets brief mentions in "Magic" and "Scalawagons," and is one of the crowd pictured on the "Royal Book" endpapers. Dave Hardenbrook: Your subconscious seems to be telling you that you are in love with Ozma. Except your conscious probably knew that already. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 18:05:33 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Tyler - I click on Create Mail in the Mail menu? Then I just write on the presented "Message in Out Basket" blank and send it off. Is this different on a PC? Recall I am a MAC person. Melody - You are right, I had 61 years with my mother. How sad to loose your mother at such an early age. I hope you had someone who acted in that role for you to soften your loss. Again, thanks to all of you who expressed sympathies. David - I'm just not up to dealing with the issues you raise today. I'm really pressed for time. Have you been watching a lot of Bruce/Arnold/Steven movies lately? I don't think you know enough "self-styled" Conservatives. Actually there may be some right around you here on the Digest. :) Ah - another arrow from David >>>---------( o o )-------> Goodbye until next weekend, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:04:51 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 David Hulan wrote: >I don't quite see what your discussion about Nazis and homicidal child >molesters has to do with what I said. Or are you saying that God wants >Nazis and homicidal child molesters destroyed? I think most non-atheists would agree that God wants _something_ done about them. I don't want to veer off into a discussion of capital punishment per se, because that's an entirely different issue. My point is that it is not legitimate to argue that "x" is not deserving of punishment _because_ he is not voluntarily so, because there are a great many absolutely monstrous people who are the way they are because of their childhoods, upbringing, and, yes, genetics, and some of them certainly merit very great punishment indeed. If you want to _prove_ that it is wrong to punish any group "X", then you have to find a proof that always works, not one that you have to turn on and off depending on whether you like the results or not. >If you grant for argument's sake that this is a better time than the >'40s and '50s for everyone but healthy white middle-class heterosexual >males.... Ought this to be granted, even for argument's sake? A black woman living in the USA in the 50's, say, might have been subject to constant (but largely implicit) humiliation, and restricted in her choice of careers, but on the other hand, how do the odds stack up then and now of her being killed in a mugging or a drive-by shooting? Or of losing her job as the result of a stock-market fiddle? (Granted, that sort of thing has been far worse than it is now, but it has also, as in the 50's, been considerably better.) Or, to narrow the target even more, if a gay man in the 50's had to hide his nature, at least he wasn't as likely to be the target of plain old random gay-bashing (except, perhaps, by the police). // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 22:04:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: _The Ozzy Ozziness of Oz_ Dave, your Ozzy dream sounds better than anything I've had (which isn't hard, considering that the only Oz characters who have shown up in any of my dreams are Scraps, the Woozy, and someone I can't remember, all of which were on a rollercoaster). The title of the book, _The Ozzy Ozziness of Oz_, while somewhat ostentatious, is no stranger and more meaningful than _The Bounds of the Shaggy Man of Oz_ (from a different dream of mine). While I too had never considered the possibly that Kabumpo was involved with either 'finding' of Ozma, considering that he knows where Reera is in _Reera and the Enchanted Easter Eggs of Oz_ may indicate a yet-unrelated personal history involving magic-workers, and so he may have had dealings with Mombi or Glinda that Baum never recorded. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman óñåé ìåàù ïá äîìù ïøäà adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 22:14:05 -0700 From: MALCOLM D BARKER Subject: Family Digest Hurray for Disney and all PEOPLE, oz fans and folks of all kinds, but thanks, Dave, for remembering oz is a family subject... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 07:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 6/30 Digest Jeremy and Kiex mention that some people seem to have dwarf racial preferences. I must confess that I have such feelings. I prefer Brownies -- especially with nuts and chocolate chips. :-) Also, Tyler Jones asks the Digesters about their paragraph keying. Tyler, I just type and let the lines word-wrap where they will. I only use the enter where I want to force a new line. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:38:46 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 Just after I read DOTWIZ I read _The Braided Man of Oz_ (*1/2). Last night I read _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, and it seems Donald Abbott's only talent is copying off W.W. Denslow. His story was partly heretical, and often contradictory. First off, his Glinda is ugly, unlike Denslow's, and he has her transform herself several times, which is in opposition to Glinda's properties and/or morals, as it says in _Land_. Also, he says the spider was conjured up by magic. This is contradictory in that the blue gryphon he created could only be defeated by magic, not from a blow, yet the spider he says is magical was destroyed by the lion's claw in one blow, in _Wizard_. He also seems to take an influence from the major films in ways that seem to be copycat or uninspired as opposed to the subversive little jokes of my own Oz writing. Notably the MGM film ("lions and tigers and bears" (which was spoofed on last night _Caroline in the City_ if anyone happened to watch it) and calling the Wicked Witch of the East the WWW's sister) _Journey Back to Oz_ (monster from a brew, witchy relatives), and Cinar's _The Marvelous Land of Oz_ (1987) (Glinda's transformations). I also re-read _The Blue Witch of Oz_ last night, which is probably my favorite non-FF Oz book, except my MS :-). My comment about "Abby" came after not really reading it. I wanted to wait until I had read _Shaggy Man_. My whole point, other than wondering about the gay stereotype surrounding Judy, was that I didn't like the idea of making someone else's characters turn gay. If someone had done that to one of my characters, I would be turning in my grave. If Eric wanted to create his own gay character, that would be a different matter entirely. I hope this puts the inappropriately raging debate to an end sans censorship. More on _DOTWIZ_: I think Ozma seemed totally out of character, except that she was bored because there was no one her age to talk to (doesn't this throw a monkeywrench into your idea of Ozma reaching womanhood, Dave). She was probably trying to figure out her place, whether she was a leader and representative of her people, or whether she was lord over her people, and wanted to see the stretch of her power. She seemed to have a superiority complex which she had far less of in _Ozma_, as well as subsequent books. Note her attitude toward the piglet, and her "bring it here, I want to play with it" attitude. Perhaps she thought of it as displaced revenge against Mombi, or was being temporarily corrupted by her absolute power. These are interesting examples of this, though Eureka's trial is the more obvious one. Eventually, she learned the proper restraint and manners that were truer to her nature. I think she realized that to be a proper ruler she just had to be herself. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 13:52:20 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-30-97 In case any of you are wondering, I got an e-mail from Katherine, and her aversion to the telephone is as strong as mine: only in emergencies. Yet another thing we have in common. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 15:03:47 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Well I saw something surreal last night :) -- I saw a movie with Billie Burke talking in what must be her normal voice, rather than her sing-song "Glinda" voice that she uses in most of her movies (I thought she *really* talked like she usually does onscreen!) Scott wrote: >More on _DOTWIZ_: I think Ozma seemed totally out of character, except >that she was bored because there was no one her age to talk to (doesn't >this throw a monkeywrench into your idea of Ozma reaching womanhood, >Dave). My assumption is that Ozma *was* a little girl in the *early* books, but I won't state my full opinion, since so many on this Digest insist on treating me like I'm Galileo standing before the Inquisition... :( :( :( Danny wrote (in reply to David H.): >> I am sort of curious why they use the Greek names for the gods and >> goddesses and the Latin name for Herc, though. If they're going to use >> "Hercules" rather than "Herakles" (which I'll admit is more familiar to >> American audiences), I'd think they should use "Jupiter" and "Juno" and >> so on. >Because then Hades would have to be named "Pluto!" I was going to write to David stuff about Jupiter, etc. being associated by the modern public with the planets and not the gods, and so on...But I think you've hit the nail on the head! :) :) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 3, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 21:23:12 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 Danny: Your explanation of why the Greek names for the gods and goddesses were used in "Hercules" makes perfect sense. In fact, having read it, I ROTFLMAO! Bob: As I thought I said, I don't get the "hexies" with my current ISP. But "non-standard characters" are anything that isn't generated by hitting a key on the keyboard, with or without holding the Shift key down. I.e., don't use anything that requires the Option key on the Mac or the Control key on a PC. I don't, incidentally, know that anything you did had anything to do with other people getting the "hexies"; that was something that Ruth inferred. We do know that Aaron's Hebrew signature causes it. Atticus: You didn't read my post carefully enough. (OK, maybe I didn't make it clear enough for a casual reader; apologies if so.) I was saying that 2/3 of the US population is _not_ "healthy, white, middle-class, heterosexual, and male", not that it is. The latter would be stupid; roughly half of any population in the world is female (unless you're talking about armies or some other specialized "population"), for starters. I'm guessing, but I know that about 12% of the population is black, about 8% Latino, about 15% poor, somewhere in the 2-15% range homosexual, and maybe 5% unhealthy. I thought a rough guess that 1/3 of the population is healthy, white, middle-class, heterosexual, and male would be about right. And I was talking about the US, because Bear, who brought up the subject, certainly was. My apologies if I wasn't clear. Ozma sort of gets lost in HUNGRY TIGER as well - at least, she's off away from Oz and nobody in Oz seems to know where she's gone. Scott H.: True, the train was late, but that's what made it arrive at five o'clock instead of midnight. It was clearly _scheduled_ to arrive at midnight, so it had to be around twelve hours' normal travel from San Francisco. (Incidentally, I noted that it said "gray dawn was breaking" at five o'clock AM. This should give us a fairly accurate estimate of what the date was for the book; dawn breaks in central California around 5 AM only in early April and early September. The former date seems highly probable; we know that at the end of OZMA the hired hands were in "the harvest fields", which would indicate an early-fall date for that book, and it seems unlikely that Uncle Henry and Dorothy would have stayed in Australia for over a year.) Ah, I'd forgotten that bit from SANTA CLAUS. So OK, the Gnome King there has children. I don't think he was Ruggedo (or Roquat), in any case; he seems to have an entirely different personality. He was probably overthrown between SANTA and OZMA. (Most of the events of SANTA, even including the council of immortals that bestowed the cloak of immortality on Santa Claus, clearly take place centuries ago.) Tyler: I don't think brown dwarfs are necessarily the rarest; they're just harder to detect and therefore we don't know of as many of them. As there are more silverfish than people in Chicago, but I haven't seen as many of them. I haven't read _Acinad Goes to the Emerald City_, so maybe it includes the Nome King's brother. (It's OP, or I'd have ordered it from Buckethead.) That's right, I'd forgotten that the square-meal tablets turn up as a motivation for the Woggle-bug's students to toss him in the river in MAGIC. But the incident in PG is still the only one where someone actually consumes one "on stage". Ruth: The aspect of HIDDEN VALLEY that strikes me as particularly "'50ish" is primarily the dialog, especially Percy's. The events of the book could have happened more or less anytime (although Jam's clothing is typical of the '50s - but at least he wasn't wearing his Davy Crockett coonskin cap :-)), but Percy in particular sounds like an early-'50s teen-ager. (I know, I was one. And I wince in retrospect...) I'd forgotten the movie-industry references in LOST KING (though really that provides only a _terminus a quo_; there isn't much there that couldn't be the same today). The Charlie McCarthy reference in MAGICAL MIMICS is so much of a throwaway joke that it's hard to count, except for someone looking to pin down the book in the HACC. Bear: "Bruce/Arnold/Steven movies"? I assume those are maybe Bruce Lee, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Steven ? ? No, I've never seen a movie with any of those characters, to the best of my recollection, and certainly not in the last decade. But I'd rather take this discussion out of the Digest anyhow, as I remarked in a private E-mail after you'd apparently written this message. John K.: Anything, however absurd, can be granted for argument's sake. But if you want to argue that things might have been better for most black women in 1950 than in 1997, I'll be glad to argue the contrary - in private E-mail. I don't think it's appropriate for the Ozzy Digest. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 22:40:09 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Atty: I believe David Hulan was referring to the US population only. The 2/3 are those who did not fall into the prespecified catagroy. And, for the record, I believe his estimate is pretty close. David: Chris Dulabone believes _Shaggy Man_ and possibly _Rinkitink_ to be Heretical, despite being in the FF. Efforts to get him to explain his reasoning have yet to evoke a coherent response. Scott: I was 20 before my lips touched those of a girl's, so you're not too far behind. I would have pursued "M", but I found out she already had a boyfriend and was using me to make him jealous. "S" forced the issue, and I backed down from both of them, rather than beat "S" to a pulp and take "M" for myself. As the years have gone by, I realized that I was wrong to take the peaceful course. Captain Fyter: I forgot his cameo in _Magic_. As someone pointed out, he has only been PD for a short time, so maybe some stories about him will come out. Bear: No, that is what I was doing, but I could not control the length of each line of text. Do you press the ENTER key, or do you just let the text wrap? Right now, I write the message in Notepad, then copy and paste into the CompuServe outbasket. Scott: My main anti-HACC complaint against _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ has to do with Glinda's actions toward the Wizard and the details of the final battle (Wizard versus Wicked Witches). Oddly enough, Chris considers this the most HACC-worthy of the Books of Wonder titles to date, althgough how he can do so is beyond me. Tomorrow, I will attempt to send a post using the CompuServe outbasket with no hard returns except between paragraphs. We will see. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 20:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Dave, the hexes were back in the 7/2 Digest. As to who was better off in the forties and fifties, I think that children had it better then - a much better education, virtually no violence, and freedom. I roamed for miles, took the bus into the city whenever I wanted on weekends, and no one worried -- there was no reason to worry. Ruth Berman mentions a Robert Pattrick collection put out by IWOC. I don't recall that. I thought that I had all the IWOC publications. But then, they say that the memory is the second thing to go. (I forget the first.) Guys & gals, I will be off-line until the middle of the month. To keep my inbox from overflowing, please try to be terse. That is, there is no reason to ramble on and on without end when a few well chosen words would do as well. Yes, brevity is to be desired. Why say a thing twice or thrice or four times when once will do? This is not to say that ideas should be omitted, just that they should be expressed succinctly and without repetition or redundancy or other needless verbage. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 09:34:44 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 > From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" > > DAVID HULAN: > >If you grant for argument's sake that this is a better time than the > >'40s and '50s for everyone but healthy white middle-class heterosexual > >males, then you're saying that it's better for around 2/3 of the > >population. > so you're saying that 2/3 of the world's population is healthy, white, > middle-class, heterosexual, and male? damn, that surprises me... No, Atticus, you've got it backwards. He said that 2/3 of the U.S. population does NOT meet the qualifications of healthy, white, middle-class and heterosexual. That is 1/3 is. > Steve: > My opinion is that no FF book is heretical, by definition, though some > of them contradict other FF books more than a little. But then, that's > true of the Bible as well, after all. (And it's a good deal less > traumatic to try to reconcile apparent contradictions in the Oz books > than in the Bible.) > > David Hulan > We do not disagree. > > Report to all on "Hercules". I haven't seen the movie yet, > but I've seen the comic book (which is in digest format, and > made from cels). If you're looking for Edith Hamilton, you'll > be sadly disappointed. If, on the other hand, you're looking > for a modern-day Offenbach operetta -- well, I haven't heard > the music yet, but as far as the book goes.... > > // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" SPOILER FOR DISNEY'S HERCULES-------------------------------- Yesterday I saw the Disney HERCULES (with my seven-year old son, if I need an excuse), so I can report on it. As a persopn who has taught Greek Mythology for more years than some members of the digest have been alive, I found the film top be a complete distortion of the myths. The writers found characters that were related to the Heracles story and incorporated them in totally inappropriate ways. Megara, who in the myths was Heracles first wife and was killed along with their children by Heracles in his madness, becomes a very modern liberated woman who has been soured on men because of a bad relationship (in the course of which she sold herself to Hades). Hades, a rather non-descript figure in Greek myth best known for kidnapping Persephone with her father Zeus' permission, becomes a type of Milton's Satan, a purely evil force who attempts to overthrow Zeus. Philoloctes, whose only connection to Heracles in the myths is as the person who lit his living funeral pyre and was rewarded with his bow and arrows, becomes Phil, a satyr who was the Yoda to Hercules' Luke Skywalker. I realy should have disliked the movie, and was prepared to do so, BUT in fact I enjoyed it greatly. It has a stylized appearance which is closed to Greek red and black pottery than to the detailed realism of SNOW WHITE and PINNOCHIO. It is totallly irreverant, impertinant, and breezy. It absolutely refuses to take itself seriously, and for me to take it seriously is to break a butterfly upon the wheel. I would not give it four stars as many of the critics are doing, but I would recommend it for those who enjoy a spoofy cartoon. -----END SPOILER------ This is the last day in which I will be in my office. The workmen have not invaded my room yet, but they are just down the hall. Unless I get another digest later today (which is unlikely, but possible), this will be my last message until after July 16 and the Winkie Conferance. I hope to see many of you there. So to all, auf weidersehen, au revoir. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 10:39:06 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 DAVID H.: sorry for my previous post, gili just pointed out to me how badly i misread your statement. i shall be far more careful in the future. now, i'll don my asbestos suit, sit back and watch the various flames which i have merited for my carelessness. ;) atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 11:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Hey, Oz fans, check this out! I've been spending way too much time the past few weeks upgrading and updating bits of my web site, especially the links page (there's now over 250!), so I'm asking all of you online Oz fans to come check it out. If only to make me FEEL as if my effort was worth it... --Eric "After I get back from Winkies, I'm updating the FAQ" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 16:10:45 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-02-97 David: Woodwinds are so named because they require reeds in order to be played. That's why a saxophone is a woodwind instrument and not a brass instrument. Scott P.S.: It looks like a new video of Rankin Bass's long-out-of-print _Return to Oz_ was released on video March 18, 1997, which is according to the Internet Movie Database. Has everybody who worked on _Oz: The American Fairyland_ found their page yet? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 14:20:19 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 David Hulan, Thanks for a lucid explanation of "Nonstandard Characters". I will be certain to avoid them in the future. I did not intentionally use them in the past, however Ruth could have been right. I am unsure if I copied and pasted that signature test from another source (which might very well have included something not quite kosher) or if I transcribed it. If a similar situation presents itself I will be certain to do the transcription, thus avoiding possible "hexies". Steven J. Teller, I enjoyed your very fair minded review of Disney's "Hercules". I had no intention of seeing it, now I probably will (as your son was your excuse, I will use you as mine). Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:18:28 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 Short Digest, and I wrote about half of it, so this should be an unusually "toise but cherce" post for me... Tyler: As I've said before, I yield to none in my admiration for Chris Dulabone's knowledge of the Oz books and for what he's done for Oz through Buckethead - but I think a lot of his ideas about Oz are just plain Weird. Especially considering a Baum book even possibly heretical. If we're into True Confessions here, I was 21 before I kissed a girl with serious intent, though my lips had met those of a couple (not counting close female relatives) at an earlier age. However, I made up for the late start quite satisfactorily after that, so I urge Scott not to give up hope! ;-) And in what sense do you believe that you were wrong to take the peaceful course with "S" and "M"? Do you really think that if you'd beaten "S" to a pulp that "M" would then have been Yours? Or, if so, that you'd really have enjoyed it? Chris considers _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ the most HACC-worthy of the BoW books so far? Weird, again. It isn't wildly heretical, imho (though I'll admit that I haven't reread it, so I might have forgotten a few things), but I don't think QUEEN ANN or GLASS CAT or GIANT GARDEN or probably MASQUERADE are heretical at all. Even _How the Wizard Saved Oz_, though not a very good book, didn't seem heretical to me when I read it. Possibly, though, Chris hasn't read all of the BoW books? Earl: No argument that kids got better educations in the public schools in the '40s and '50s. Of course, this is largely attributable to the fact that teaching school was one of the few occupations open to women in those days, and one of the best-paid (even though it wasn't any better-paid in an absolute sense than it is today), so you got a lot of highly intelligent, highly qualified women teaching school. Today there's a lot wider array of occupations available for highly intelligent, highly qualified women, so although some still teach school because of intangible rewards, more go for occupations with better pay and more prestige. And as a result, the average quality of teachers, especially in elementary schools, is much lower. This is pure Peter Principle at work. And I agree there was less violence and things were safer for kids then, too - though the danger certainly wasn't zero. I think there was a second factor at work as well - there wasn't any TV, so people didn't get violent incidents blasted in their faces on the 10-o'clock (11 o'clock Eastern and Pacific) news every night. I suspect that if your parents had been able to see every crime that happened in "the city" (which city was that?) in gory detail, they might have been much more reluctant to let you take a bus in by yourself even then. There are two different versions of Pattrick's UNEXPLORED TERRITORY IN OZ available from the IWOC, one with notes by Patrick Maund and one without. (I recommend the first, even though it costs a dollar or so more.) I got a good laugh out of your last paragraph. I assume that I was intended to? Steve: You'll see me at Winkie, unless some disaster intervenes. I have my room, my plane tickets...I really ought to go ahead and reserve myself a rental car in San Jose, though, now that I think of it... It would be a real bummer to get to that airport and find there were no rental cars available to get me from there to Asilomar. (Not a disaster - I have friends in SJ who I'm sure would drive me down once they're off work - but it would make me late, and would also be an imposition.) Atticus: No flames; I'm glad you reread what I said and agree with it. When I reread it myself I could see how a cursory reading might get a wrong impression, though I'd have hoped that the general tenor of my posts over the months would have made your interpretation seem so out of character for me that you'd have gone back and checked it carefully before commenting. But one can't have everything one hopes. :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 22:25:04 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 Content-disposition: inline Tyler: > "S" forced the issue, and I backed down from both of them, rather than beat "S" to a pulp and take "M" for myself. As the years have gone by, I realized that I was wrong to take the peaceful course.< Of course you were right to take the peaceful course--beating up the guy might have only shown "M" that you were a bully, and now you'd be suffering a guilty conscience over hurting the guy. Isn't it better to start off too nice, and learn how to be strong on a good way, than start off too mean, then suffer pangs of remorse later in life over all the people you've hurt? Of course, if you think you were wrong to back down completely, you might've asked "M" to choose between you.. I look back & regret some of my acts of cowardice also, so you're not alone. Cowardly Lion: Hey, I've been s-scared, too, y'know! Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 23:13:43 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: FW: Oz the movie.. Dave, Would you post this on the digest? I had sent Tyler Jones' page of merchandise links to this member and he may want to know about the outdated links. Jim -----Original Message----- From: The Stat Center [SMTP:statcenter@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 1997 3:13 PM Subject: RE: Oz the movie.. Hi Jim, Best of Kansas and Annie M's Collectibles are terrific. Kidz Store was interesting too. They were exactly what I was looking for. Some of the others resulted in "not found" as follows (FYI): http://www.achilles.net/~jhall/gallery.html http://www.webomatic.com/CMPA/CMPA.html http://virtumall.com/Grandio/WizardChecks.html Thank you again for your help. If you ever find others and have a moment, please keep me posted..... Sincerely, -Nancy At 10:47 PM 6/30/97 -0500, you wrote: >You're right, Nancy - looks like they changed ISPs. Here's where I found them" > >Best of Kansas (1994-1995 Issue) Page 3 > >1-800-593-5566. 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. (Central Time) Monday through Saturday. We've brought back your favorite Oz characters as you requested. We have no idea. >http://www.radiks.net/bok/page3.html - size 3K - 22.May.97 - English > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: The Stat Center [SMTP:statcenter@earthlink.net] >Sent: Monday, June 30, 1997 11:24 AM >To: International Wizard of Oz Club >Subject: RE: Oz the movie.. > >Hi Jim, > > Thank you SO much for your help. I am looking forward to searching >the sites you've suggested. Unfortunatly the >http://www.southwind.net/IMS/bok address was not good. I was told that it >was unfound. I believe that was the company that was sold. If you hear of a >more current site for them, please let me know. The other sites I will try >soon. > > Thanks so much for your attention. > Sincerely, -Nancy > > >At 06:59 AM 6/30/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Leo and Nancy, >> >>One of the best places to check is "Best of Kansas" which has a catalog on >the internet (http://www.southwind.net/IMS/bok/) >> >>If you'll excuse the raw HTML, I've included some other possible Oz >merchandise sites from one of our members' home page. I haven't verified >the links, however. >> >>Sincerely, >>Jim Vander Noot >> >> Annie M's Collectibles >>
>>
Fine Gifts and Collectibles From The Wizard of OZ & Gone With The >> Wind >>
>>
> NATURALSIZEFLAG="3"> >> Celebrities Gallery >>
>>
Animation art of the Wizard of Oz for sale from an animation company. >>
  >>
>>
> NATURALSIZEFLAG="3">Kidz Store >> Wizard of Oz figurines
>> >>
NATURALSIZEFLAG= >> "3"> Movie Poster Art >> Wizard of Oz posters for sale here.
>>
>> NATURALSIZEFLAG= >> "3"> Anthony Grandio >> Company Wizard of Oz checks for sale.
>>
>> Katy's Collectibles >> Antique Mall Some Wizard of Oz merchandise: books, cookie jars...
>>
>> Little Nell's Room Some Wizard >> of Oz merchandise...
>>
>> Collectibles Some >> Wizard of Oz merchandise, but mostly Star Trek stuff... >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Leo and Nancy Letarte [SMTP:statcenter@earthlink.net] >>Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 4:00 PM >>To: iwoc@neosoft.com >>Subject: Oz the movie.. >> >>Not to sound unappreciative of the historical items found through your >>web page, but I am looking for items which represent characters/props >>from the movie. I'm not a collector of expensive rare items. I am >>painting my children's den to look like the Oz from the movie. I was >>lucky enough to come across a replica of the Lion's medel of courage and >>a few ornaments from a store in Kansas. The store was sold and I lost >>contact. I keep trying on the Internet for a resource with not much >>luck. Are you able to give me any hint of a direction to find commercial >>items as I mentioned??? >> >> >> > > > > ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 00:02:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 HERCULES: It is fun, but definitely not true to mythology as most of us understand it. I, too, noted the style's seemingly trying to mimic early Greek pottery, but then, it may be that someone at Disney was just trying to use '50s animation...kinda similar. I won't go into details here:Steve's report did that quite well. The movie is worth its admission price if you go at matineee time. BTW, I went all by myself with no child as my "cover." I'm off to Winkieland in a matter of hours. This is my last posting until I return on the night of the 14th. I hope to see some of you at Asilomar. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 14:01:03 -0700 From: craig burns Subject: one simpleOz question I am not a fanatic of TWOO so I won't get on your list. but do you have the answer to this question: In the movie, when the coroner walks out and begins to sing his schpiel , he sings: "As coroner,____________, I've thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincereley dead" could you fill in the blank for me? thanks in advance ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 5 - 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 21:08:46 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 Scott: There are various definitions of woodwinds. Quite a few of them include French horns, since they sit among the woodwinds in a classical orchestra. I was a clarinet/saxophone player for about ten years in various bands and orchestras, so I'm not speaking purely from hearsay. This time I _really_ have a short post! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 14:02:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-03-97 and 7-4-97 Seeing if I can add some meat into all my catching up . . . The 3rd-- Re Hexies: I thought those were the WWW's favorite pasttime . . . Transportation in . . . in . . . in the US! Earl Abbe mentioned that things were better (easier, at any rate) in the 40s-50s because, among other things, transportation was much more accessible (buses and such). After hearing my mom (of NYC origin) talk about subways, and since I don't drive (or even if I did, would rather ride in a bus with lots of other people and create the same amount of pollution than in an indivjdual car--if I had to at all), I wish I had that opportunity. (By the way, she was never mugged until she moved to Baton Rouge, LA, for grad school--well into her 20s. But that's another point). Also to Earl Abbe: "Excess verbage"--was that a snide comment directed at my sense of humor or expression thereof? Will try to keep myself in briefs nevertheless. On to the 4th-- All: Happy (late) Independence Day, everyone! (Wonder if Oz ever had to get independence from anything/anyone--interesting book idea, there . . .) --KIEX (with that jermy thing) Jeremy: Hey! This is my computer, you know! KIEX: The only thing you can really say for yourself, that. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 21:38:55 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 Content-disposition: inline Craig Burns: "As coroner, I must aver, I've thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead!" Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 23:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: BillyOzFan@aol.com Subject: Make CONTACT with Oz I have just seen the prescreening of a fantastic new movie, CONTACT, surely to bring many hours of conversations. For the oz fans out there there are a few visual, cinematical and literary references to oz in the movie. I am sure as the movie makes general release this topic will get more written about. I don't want to spoil anything so go forth and venture for yourself. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Jul 97 13:19:04 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things TO MELODY: Thanks for the "Wizard" quote! ( Did you remember to send the answer to the non-member who asked? :) ) OZ AND CARL SAGAN: BillyOzFan wrote: >I have just seen the prescreening of a fantastic new movie, CONTACT, surely >to bring many hours of conversations. This is the movie I've been waiting for. :) Carl Sagan first wrote the novel _Contact_ in 1985 and there was to be a movie, but as you can see there was a *slight* delay. :) Most people on the Digest know the esteem I hold for Dr. Sagan (If only he could have lived to see _Pathfinder_ land on Mars!!!), and as he was an ardent Oz fan, it's not surprising that there are Oz references in the movie...Are there any Oz fans in the Southern California area who'd like to see the movie with me? :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 7 - 9, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 22:00:00 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline David: We're definitely on the same side of the aisle in this regard. Despite my occassional needling of Chris for some issues, the fact is that I consider to the best source on Oz books in the known Universe. His knowledge of Oz and Ozzy events is absolutely unmatched anywhere. We are extremely lucky to have him here. Let's get Physical (NOT): It is possible that I would have won the fair lady had I gotten tough. However, I may not have enjoyed it. I've only been in a fight once. It was the classical situation of the picked-on kid standing up to the bully. Without meaning to brag, I won, but I felt terrible when his nose bled and he started crying. In the long run, I would rather not have to go through that again. Chris has probably read all of the Oz books. The one poison pill in _How the Wizard Saved Oz_ was the situation with Mombi, Tip and Ozma. Other than that, there were no real problems. Merchandise links: I suppose that the inclusion of my name in that was a mistake, or was it? Kiex: Actually, the idea of an Ozzy independence day may factor very briefly in my onw book, if I ever write the thing. I don;t want to give anything away, but I will say that this is not independence for Oz, but FROM Oz! (heh heh heh) For three posts, this is pretty short! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 00:37:02 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest The July 6 Digest was SO short I feel compelled to write something (also, I should appear at least once a month to prove I am around). Perhaps folks are too busy packing for Asilomar? Speaking of Asilomar, my attempt to make a weekend of it has slowly devolved into a Saturday only jaunt. I will be driving down with my 4 year old son Andrew, who is looking forward to the kids events. We may bring some friends, who would like to set up a picnic at the beach. Anyone else bringing kids??? I had the pleasure of seeing Eloise Jarvis McGraw (who no longer uses the Jarvis, so it is easier to sign her name) last week. She signed several books for me, including copies of The Moorchild and Tangled Webb, which I plan to donate for the kids auction on Saturday. When seeing the 1st edition of Merry Go Round I had brought for signing, she told me it was worth a good deal of money (about $600 by her estimate!). I didn't tell her I bought it just this spring for $24. I have an "Oz Books Wanted" ad on an Oz site that has been generated some interesting replies. I am supposed to receive several lists of Oz collectibles for sale, which I will be happy to share. Hope to see you all in Asilomar. Joel Harris ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 08:12:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Earl Abbe: Enjoyed your explanation of repetition and redundancy. And how are things in Rigmarole? // I was mistaken in thinking that "The Tin Woodman and the Tin Soldier" was included in the "Unexplored Territory in Oz" collection of Bob Pattrick's work the IWOC published. It was in an early "Baum Bugle," and reprinted in "Best" # -- um, #3, I think. (Note to all: all five of the "Best of the Baum Bugle" collections of the early years are still available, and well worth getting. Check with the IWOC at P.O. Box 266, Kalamazoo, Mich 49004-0266, for current prices.) David Hulan: Yes, come to think of it, I think you're right that Percy's slang dates "Hidden Valley" to the 50s. Scott Hutchins: Some examples of woodwinds that don't use reeds are flutes and recorders. Those of you attending the Winkie convention: Hope you'll comment on the doings there? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 09:48:00 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 Jeremy: Public transportation is definitely something that's gone downhill since the'40s and '50s, though it's been making something of a comeback the last decade or so; I think the nadir for public transportation was probably the '70s. And as I said a couple of days ago, I'm pretty sure Earl was being humorous in his urgings to cut out "excess verbiage" - in a paragraph with about as much excess verbiage as is possible. No other comments I can think of on this rather abbreviated Digest. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 20:26:25 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 Dave, all this sci-fi talk (okay, so I guess there wasn't *that* much) is there any update on the Oz-on -Charon project? Danny ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:44:48 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 > And in what sense do you believe that you were wrong to take the > peaceful course with "S" and "M"? Do you really think that if you'd > beaten "S" to a pulp that "M" would then have been Yours? Or, if so, > that you'd really have enjoyed it? Yes, I was wondering about this myself. And why did you shoose the names "S" and "M," are you a weirdo or something? > Of course you were right to take the peaceful course--beating up > the guy might have only shown "M" that you were a bully, and now you'd be > suffering a guilty conscience over hurting the guy. Isn't it better to > start off too nice, and learn how to be strong on a good way, than start > off too mean, then suffer pangs of remorse later in life over all the > people you've hurt? Of course, if you think you were wrong to back down > completely, you might've asked "M" to choose between you.. I look back & > regret some of my acts of cowardice also, so you're not alone. I haven't gone that far, but Katherine and I are friends, so I don't think that's necessary at present. > > Cowardly Lion: Hey, I've been s-scared, too, y'know! How did you like Nathan Lane's pansy-like portrayal (sorry, that was the stereotype he seemed to evoke)? > > I am not a fanatic of TWOO so I won't get on your list. but do you > have the answer to this question: In the movie, when the coroner walks > out and begins to sing his schpiel , he sings: "As coroner,____________, > I've thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really > most sincereley dead" could you fill in the blank for me? thanks in > advance I responded to this, in case no one else has yet. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:52:05 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 I was looking at old Video Yesteryear new release catalogs, and I found out there is a porno star named John Dough. Is there some weird Oz fan who debuted him in an adult _John Dough and the Cherub_? There wouldn't be much name recognition with that title though. It would be weird if he is in the adult Wizard of Oz video my friend has. He's going to send it to Justin Schiller, at his request. Patrick: When was the Hong Kong Wizard of Oz school play? I forgot. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 17:44:16 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 I just finished catching up on the last three Ozzy Digests as I was in Minnesota for the past week. I see that the Digests have been rather short, so there's not much to respond to. We spent a few days in Minneapolis (my mother's hometown) and then went up to a cabin on the edge of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. This was a family reunion. (My mom's siblings have only been all together three times since their parents died in 1963.) Fantastic! I hiked and fished, explored an island, and saw a bear and bald eagles. One of my uncles and his son, my cousin, share a collection of Oz books. It is the only complete collection of the Famous Forty that I have ever seen besides my own. Some of the books aren't in great condition, but they have first editions in near fine condition of _Glinda_, _Purple Prince_ and _Merry Go Round_ (with dust jacket) among others. They also have early printings of _Santa Claus_, _Enchanted Island of Yew_, _Queen Zixi_, and _Magical Monarch of Mo_. I came bearing gifts, so they now have two new additions to their collection: _Yankee_ and _Ozmapolitan_. It was the least I could do to return the favor b/c my Uncle Tom gave me my copies of _Giant Horse_ and _Pirates_ (both in dust jackets, though not first editions) in 1977. Another uncle and aunt saw signs for a Wizard of Oz museum in Wisconsin (I think that's where it was) during their drive to Minneapolis. They aren't Oz fans, so they didn't check it out. Does anyone know anything about this? -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:28:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Saundersrl@aol.com Subject: Oz Oz Book List The Wonderful Wizard of Oz } The Gnome King of Oz The Marvelous Land of Oz } The Giant Horse of Oz } Ozma of Oz } Jackpupkinhead of Oz Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz } The Yellow Knight of Oz } The Road to Oz Pirates in Oz } The Emerald City of Oz The Purple Prince of Oz The Pachwork Girl of Oz } Ojo in Oz } Tik Tok of Oz } Speedy in Oz The Scarecrow of Oz The Wishing Horse of Oz } Rinkitink in Oz } Captian Salt in Oz } The Lost Princess ofOz Handy Mandy in Oz } The Tin Woodman of Oz The Silver Princess in Oz } The Magic of Oz } Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz Glinda of Oz The Wonder City of Oz The Royal Book of Oz The Scalawagons oz Oz } Kabumpo in Oz Lucky Bucky in Oz The Cowardly Lion of Oz The Magical Mimics in Oz Grampa in Oz The Shaggy Man of Oz } The Lost King of Oz The Hidden Vally Of Oz The Hungry Tiger of Oz Merry Go Round in Oz The Books With } Mark Are The Ones I Have. Only Want Books Without Color Plates, No Dust Jackets, Thats No First Prints. I Only Buy To Read And I Like The Hard Cover With The Paper Label. Richard Saunders 300 N Vista # 915 Houston Tx 77073 281-821-6313 Saundersrl@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:22:25 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-04-97 Scott wrote: >David: Woodwinds are so named because they require reeds in order to be >played. That's why a saxophone is a woodwind instrument and not a brass >instrument. Nope. Fipple and transverse flutes are woodwinds, too. You're on the right track, though; the modern interpretation is that anything with a cup mouthpiece is a "brass", while everything else is a "woodwind", so it's the mouthpiece, tho' it isn't the reed. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:33:33 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-06-97 David Hulan wrote: >There are various definitions of woodwinds. Quite a few of them include >French horns, since they sit among the woodwinds in a classical >orchestra. Horns sometimes play with woodwinds, and a horn is a member of the standard "woodwind quintet", but I cannot recall ever seeing horns _classified_ _as_ woodwinds in, say, a reference book or orchestration text or manual. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 23:21:09 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Gee, I'm sorry to say you made it too easy for me to catch up. Guess I better get busy and read the new BOCF. Tyler - >No, that is what I was doing, but I could not control the length of each line of text. Do you press the ENTER key, or do you just let the text wrap? Right now, I write the message in Notepad, then copy and paste into the CompuServe outbasket. No, I don't use ENTER. I just use the mail form. I don't use the Notepad. Why don't you use the mail form? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 09:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: BOZZYBEAR@aol.com Subject: OZ Merchandise Cc: BOZZYBEAR@aol.com In the July 4th digest listing sources for OZ merchandise was disappointed not to see my establishment listed. I owe "OZways Something Collectibles" in Philadelphia .... we specialize in TV/Movie memorabilia >>> high emphazise on OZ .... several vintage items. Address is PO Box 53850, Philadelphia, PA 19105, Phone 215-637-6406. Contact us with "wants" or list of available merchandise. Can also e-mail us at OZways@AOL.com We are still working on our WEB page ... will advise when completed. Would like also to remind everyone of the Munchkin convention on August 1-3 in Wilmington Del .... please send your registrations into me as soon as possible. OZways Marck Barry Decourval (Ozways Something Collectibles) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:54:23 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: Oz Club Xmas Cards? Hi everyone! Does anyone recall an article in a recent Baum Bugle about the Christams cards that Fred Meyer sends to Oz Club members? I've looked and looked without any luck, and I'm beginning to think that I might be losing my... ummm... what's that brain function called.... you know..... song about it in "Cats"..... ummmm.. Cheers, Scott Cummings ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 14:56:57 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Could there be an "Ozian Independence Day" on and celebrating the day Dorothy melted the WWW, or perhaps when Ozma took the throne? Danny asked for an Oz-on-Charon update. The last thing that's happened is that I've written once again to Frank Drake, Martin Gardner and Harlen Ellison (who didn't answer the first time) asking them to support the project. If they reply (or haven't by the end of summer), I will send our peitition with the names of the people who have expressed support to the International Astronomical Union. Patrick Moore said not to get our hopes up because he expects they won't honor a 20th century author, but there's no harm in trying... Just one other I thing I thought of: Would it be a good idea to post this in the Baum Bugle or other journal in order to rally support from offline Oz fans? My family and I watched the movie "Lost Horizon" last night...I find the resemblance between Oz and Shangri-La uncanny -- Utopian society, cut off from the rest of the world, where there is no war, no illness, no hunger, want, cruelty or discontent, and at least greatly delayed aging and death...And also the two-word credo, "Be kind." (Oz's is of course the similar albeit more child-oriented "Behave yourself.") And like Dorothy, Conway is foolish enough to think that "there's no place like home", until he finally realizes that the wonderful place "over the rainbow" he found is his *real* home! (And arguably Conway's brother is the Nome King.) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 10 - 11, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 20:37:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 > Hi everyone! > > Does anyone recall an article in a recent Baum Bugle about the Christams cards > that Fred Meyer sends to Oz Club members? I've looked and looked without any > luck, and I'm beginning to think that I might be losing my... ummm... what's > that brain function called.... you know..... song about it in "Cats"..... > ummmm.. > I remember this article, too. i think it was early-'80s > the resemblance between Oz and Shangri-La uncanny -- Utopian society, > cut off from the rest of the world, where there is no war, no illness, > no hunger, want, cruelty or discontent, and at least greatly delayed > aging and death...And also the two-word credo, "Be kind." (Oz's is of > course the similar albeit more child-oriented "Behave yourself.") > And like Dorothy, Conway is foolish enough to think that "there's no > place like home", until he finally realizes that the wonderful place > "over the rainbow" he found is his *real* home! (And arguably Conway's > brother is the Nome King.) And like Dorothy, people age rapidly when they leave! Anyone seen _Latitude Zero_? I'm going to watch it again tonight. It's probably closer in spirit to the Oz of the books than any actual Oz films. BTW, what's a fipple? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 21:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 Dave: By all means, circulate a petition among off-line Oz people. The more the better! Joel: Glad to see that you're still on the Digest. I, too, haven't had nearly as much to say lately. I must say, I'm terribly envious of your $24 _Merry Go Round in Oz_. It's the only FF book that I don't have an R&B or R&L copy of, though I do have the BoW reprint. I only saw the first edition for the first time last week at my Uncle Tom's house. (I suppose I saw it when I visited him in 1977, but I don't remember it.) Speaking of Merry Go Round, does anyone know where I can get a first edition? Herm doesn't have it, and I'm second in line when he does. Robin? -- I guess I should talk to you (by private e-mail) about what you may or may not have for my collection. Unfortunately, I don't think I have your address. Haven't registered yet for the Munchkin Convention; I guess I better get my act together. When are we supposed to start discussing _The Road to Oz_? -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 20:36:30 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 Dave Hardenbrook, I'm glad to meet another "Lost Horizon" fan. I think the movie is marvelous. I never made the connection with Oz before, but I can't deny your parallels. I would disagree with you on one thing, though. The nome king is a powerful figure. Conway's brother is merely a cowardly jerk. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 12:07:27 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 Tyler: I still wonder what Chris found non-HACC-worthy in QUEEN ANN, GLASS CAT, or CHRISTMAS, if, as you say, he's probably read them and still thinks HOW THE WIZARD CAME TO OZ is the most HACC-worthy of the BoW publications. Joel: I think several of the more active Digesters - Robin and Steve, for two - have already left home on their respective ways to Asilomar. I'm leaving tomorrow and won't be back to the Digest until Monday. This is probably my last post until then, unless there's a Digest fairly early this evening. See you at Asilomar, though I'm not bringing any kids. (My only "kid" is 31...) Ruth: I'll certainly comment on the doings at Winkies; whether I go into the detail I did on Ozmopolitian will depend on how much time I have once I'm back, and how vivid my memories are. Richard Saunders: If you're only buying to read, but prefer hardcovers, Books of Wonder has most of the ones you need available in very nice reprint editions - all but GLINDA, COWARDLY LION, GRAMPA, HUNGRY TIGER, PURPLE PRINCE, WISHING HORSE, and HIDDEN VALLEY, and the IWOC has WISHING HORSE and HIDDEN VALLEY. The Baums, ROYAL BOOK, and WISHING HORSE have color plates if the original did, and all of the hardcovers have dust jackets, but I imagine you could live with them. The Baums are generally $20-22, and the Neills and McGraw $25. I just checked my latest "Oz Collector" and their editions of HANDY MANDY, SILVER PRINCESS, MAGICAL MIMICS, and SHAGGY MAN are PB only ($13 each), but are full-size and thus almost as good as HCs. BoW's toll-free number for orders is 800-835-4315; if you want to get the "Oz Collector" sent to you you may have to call their main number, (212) 989-3270. John K.: I was thinking of the inclusion of horns in the "woodwind quintet" when I said they were sometimes classified with woodwinds. I didn't mean that in isolation anyone would call a horn a woodwind. Dave: I don't think the day Ozma took the throne would be celebrated as an Ozian "Independence Day," since Ozma's accession didn't affect the independence of Oz from any outside power. Dorothy's destructions of the Wicked Witches might be celebrated as something like two separate "Independence Days" by the Munchkins and Winkies, although again it wasn't a case of independence but liberation from tyranny. If anything, Ozma's accession marked the end of relative independence for the four major quarters of Oz, since before that they seem to have been basically free from the central authority of the Emerald City, at least for some decades. The Wizard, the Scarecrow, and Jinjur all claim to be no more than the ruler of the Emerald City, and in fact in LAND it appears that Pastoria and Ozma are also only rulers of the central green zone. (There are frequent references to "the throne of the Emerald City," and none I can find to "the throne (or rulership) of Oz." Granted, I may have missed such a reference.) It would appear that sometime during the interval between the end of LAND and OZMA that the four quarters of Oz became (willingly, of course) subject to Ozma's authority; in later books Ozma says that her ancestors ruled all of Oz. Haven't watched "Lost Horizon" in a long time, but the similarities between Shangri-La and Oz are interesting. Although arguably this is just because both fall into the long line of utopian literature that goes back at least as far as Plato's Atlantis. I suspect that Hilton was more influenced by that whole tradition than by Oz itself, though it wouldn't be surprising to find out that he'd read the early Oz books. (I don't know if he was young enough to have read them as a child, though. Anyone with the right kind of reference books know when he was born?) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 17:52:46 -0400 (EDT) From: JHughes460@aol.com Subject: Wizard of Oz Is the stuff you send out all related to the original story? Do you know how one can get a copy of the original movie script? I would greatly appreciate your help. Thanks!!! Jody Jhughes460@aol.com [Another non-member..could someone E-mail them in private? Thanks! -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 18:40:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 John Dough: The problem with the advent of pay toilets is that one needs to carry around alot of that in case of dire need . . . Craig: It just proves you're not Greek--otherwise your cousins would not have wanted to be around you (bearing gifts as you were). Support for LFB as honored author: Sure! Petition the OD, Bugle, journals of literature, Supreme Court--anything and everything possible to give to our faorite series' founder the honor he's earned! That's my opinion, at least. --JEREMY STEADMAN (with kiex) KIEX: You promised not to do that! What happened to our truce? Huh? Jeremy: Treat me like that and I'll never grant your wishes. Hey--what's with the baseball bat? Oh, no--AHHHH! KIEX: So there! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 21:10:59 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Web: My web page has been updated with new BEOO reviews by David Hulan. Posts: The standard Compuserve method, just writing a message in the create mail box with no hard returns in paragraphs, seems to be working fine. Also, an advantage is that I no longer have to switch back and forth from a DOS box or use the send file command. Are most of us about ready to move to _Road_ as the BCF? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 19:20:12 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Semantic question for Ozzie Digesters Hello there, This is completely off the subject, but it has been bugging me since the probe landed on Mars. Possibly I have too much time on my hands. I have found in the past that Digesters are a veritable font of knowledge, a cornucopia of information on any subject, and would like some advice on this one. Does not the prefix geo- refer to this planet, The Earth, Terra? And does not the word geology mean the science of or the study of earthly phenomena, especially rocks? Do we not then have to coin another term for the study of similar phenomena on Mars? Isn't the use of the word geology to describe what's happening now on Mars a misnomer? Awaiting your discussion with bated breath. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:55:33 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-09-97 On the subject of "cornet bands", I should have mentioned earlier that one of the regular contingents in the Independence Day parade here in Chatham, NJ is the Bloomfield (NJ) Cornet Band, which appears to be a pretty standard band, except that they follow British, rather than American custom, in using a reed section dominated by saxophones, rather than clarinets -- but they are a small band, and it may reflect only the fortunes of recruitment. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: >Patrick Moore said not to get our hopes >up because he expects they won't honor a 20th century author, but there's >no harm in trying... Although Baum survived into the 20th century, and most of his career as a writer took place in the 20th century, "The Wizard of Oz" was published and copyright in the 19th century. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 20:13:10 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Sorry to pester you! Just wondering if there are any sites out there with OZ book reviews? If not, just wondering how you would rate the first 20 official oz books or if I can get anyone's opinion! If I was to give out ratings for the first 5 books they would be this: Wizard of Oz (9 out of 10) Land of Oz (7.5) Ozma of Oz (10) Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (8) Road to Oz (4)- didn't like the ending chapters at all. Only the Scoodlers and the Shaggy Man save this book for me! :-) ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 12, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:28:49 -0700 From: Lee Subject: Wizard of Oz books Hello. My name is Lee. I am a teacher in the Los Angeles area. I have eleven old Oz books that have been in my family since before WWII. They have been in storage for twenty years. When last used, some of them received amature spinal repairs. Overall, though, the partial set has its attraction. I am seeking to sell them at a fair price (they are certainly not in excellent condition) to an Oz fan/collector. If you know of anyone in search of this type of item, please send them to my website addition which I put together to share the collection more easily. The eleven photos there are worth the visit! http://www.smartlink.net/~yesman/oz.html These are cloth cover books each with a colorful paper illustration on the front cover. The Waddle Book is the only book with color illustrations. Waddles not included. : ( Thank you, Lee ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:58:47 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Scott Hutchins: Bert Lahr also played the Cowardly Lion with stereotyped homosexual gestures. The most obvious is the "limp wrist" gesture on "I'm just a dandy-lion." Nathan Lane's version of the role was Lahr-style. Craig Noble: I don't know of a Wisconsin Oz museum, but I wonder if the sign your folks saw was pointing the way to Grand Rapids MN, where there's Judy Garland stuff. Dave Hardenbrook: On Ozian national holidays -- Ozma's birthday seems to be celebrated as a national holiday in "Road" and "Wonder City." The party in "Magic" seems to be smaller and more private, though. David Hulan: James Hilton was 1900-1954. In publication dates, that's young enough to have read the early ones in childhood, but the Oz books didn't have the kind of popularity in Britain they did in America, so he wouldn't have been particularly likely to have read them. Even now, the only example I know of a direct reference to Oz in British fantasy is only a reference to the MGM movie (in Terry Pratchett's hilarious "Witches Abroad" -- and not counting an interview with Paul Darrow, who who played the Avon in "Blake's 7," in which, commenting on his silver costume in one episode, he and his wife broke into "We're Off to See the Wizard"). If Keith Laumer is British (I'm not sure of his background -- his brother March lived in Hong Kong a long time), he referred to Oz, and specifically to the Oz books, in some of his work. But by contrast, American writers referring to the Oz books include Bradbury, Boucher, Dick, Eager, Farmer, Heinlein, Wolfe, and so on. An important factor may be that 20th century British f/sf writers had a strong 19th century background of fantasy writing to give them a tradition to be writing in. Brian Attebery, in his study of American fantasy, argued that Baum was the first American writer to write fantasy primarily and successfully, and so was a major figure for most 20th century American f/sf writers. Bob Spark: Terms like areology can be coined for Mars, but the system of separate words for each planet or moon (selenology) is far too clumsy once multiple other planets and moons start coming into consideration. Earth (Gaia) capitalized means this planet, but earth/geo- applies well enough to any planetary body. "The Road to Oz": I've been trying to remember what I thought of it before reading "Who's Who in Oz," but I can't separate it out. Perhaps I guessed, even before I knew from Snow, that the closing chapters were bringing in people from other stories. Even without having read the other stories (it took me some years of haunting used bookstores to track down copies), I was delighted by the idea of the-world-of-Oz, with Baum's awareness of a continent-sized geography and interactions of many unusual countries. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:52:42 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-11-97 > Does not the prefix geo- refer to this planet, The Earth, Terra? >And does not the word geology mean the science of or the study of >earthly phenomena, especially rocks? > Do we not then have to coin another term for the study of similar >phenomena on Mars? Isn't the use of the word geology to describe what's >happening now on Mars a misnomer? One occasionally finds reference to "selenology", and I suppose "areology" is possible for Mars. However, the question then arises: What do you call the general subject, since, broadly speaking, rocks is rocks? And then, of course, everyone always has to fall back on "geology", anyway, so the whole exercise seems kinda pointless. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:18:21 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Jeremy - You can now bring Kiex up on charges of assault and BATtery. :) Good grief! He's infected me. Hopefully we will wait on the BOCF until a bunch of us return from Winkies. Bob with "bated" breath - orbits around earth - geocentric (actually means the center of the earth is the origin - in Keplerian terms, one focus of an elliptical orbit, circular is just a special case), around the sun - heliocentric, around moon - lunicentric or selenocentric, around Mars - the term is areocentric. Don't ask me about Venus. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:10:19 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dave: A lot of people have asked about stuff regarding the script for the MGM movie. If you could post this info on your FAW, it might make things easier. THE WIZARD OF OZ : THE SCREENPLAY Edited by Noel Langley, FLorence Ryerson and Edgar Allan Woolf A Delta book, published by Dell Publishing, a division of Bantam Doubleday Dell Publishing Group, Inc. 1989 ISBN 0-385-29760-2 I'll e-mail Eric and ask him to do the same thing. Bob: Hmmm, possibly correct in a technical sense, but it would soon get confusing to have to reinvent the words "geology", "geography" and so on for every planet, especially if we ever move out to the stars. There's a related quote in one of the Foundation books, but I'll only let loose with it if the discussion seems to lean the other way. Dave: Are DOug and Lori Silfen regulars to the Digest? I mailed them privately, just in case. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 97 12:40:06 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Thanks for info., Tyler -- I guess the time has come for me to write an MGM section for the FAQ ( You can only take being asked about the "hanging man" so many times... :) ) I hereby decree that the official starting day for our _Road_ discussions is Monday the 21th... Let's see Hermology, Aphroditology, Lunology, Areology, Jovology, Ioology, Europology, Ganymedology, Callistology, Cronology, Titanology, Uranology, Posidonology, Tritonology, Plutonology... I think we'd better just stick to "geology". :) Seriously, my understanding is that "geo" or "gea" *can* mean just "land" in general...That's where "Baumgea" comes from! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 13, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:47:01 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz Digest stuff Lori and I just subscribed to the Ozzy Digest. We have always been fans of the 1939 movie and just recently started to read the Oz books before going to sleep as something fun to do. So far, I, Douglas have read the first 6 books. I'm starting the Patchwork Girl tomorrow. Anybody have a favorite Ruth Thompson Oz book?? and why? :-) Doug and Lori ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:38:54 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-97 Ruth, John, Bear, Tyler, Dave, Thanks for a cogent and timely reply to my question about geology. I note that there is definitely a concensus. This must prove something about great minds. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:48:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12-97 Ruth B.: You say that Baum was the "first American writer to write fantasy primarily and successfully"--as I recall, Baum did not consider the Oz series among his best or favorite works. (Or am I mixing him up with some other famous writer?) Bear: You say, "Jeremy - You can now bring Kiex up on charges of assault and BATtery. :) Good grief! He's infected me." I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about there. (KIEX: And so let it remain!) Tyler: Re the Foundation books' Gaia complex--all the Girls wanted to get in there, so they resorted to starring. (a weak attempt at humor, perhaps, but a necessary one from my standpoint. Oh, I'm an Asimov fanatic myself) Dave: You list the horrible consequences of deriving a new name for the "geologic" forces of each astronomical body ["Let's see Hermology, Aphroditology, Lunology, Areology, Jovology, Ioology, Europology, Ganymedology, Callistology, Cronology, Titanology, Uranology,Posidonology, Tritonology, Plutonology... I think we'd better just stick to "geology". :)" ] A further problem, of course, is the bodily function Uranology suggests . . . I like your solution. --Jeremy Steadman, Kiex presiding. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:30:15 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Hanging: Eric already has a section in his FAQ about this, so once your FAQ gets updated (at least as far as the hanging man myth), then we will at least stem part of the tide. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:31:49 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Further thoughts on "geology" Hi Y'all, Sorry for the second post. While all of your answers made sense to me, I believe that if I were a Martian, I would resent them on the basis of "geoism". A professor of mine used to call it the egocentric geocentric viewpoint. I am interested in that quote from the _Foundation_ series. It's been a long time since I've reread them. If you don't want to put it on the "Digest", how 'bout letting me know where to find it privately? It just struck me as interesting that people who grew up on the _Oz_ books seem to have similar tastes in other readings. I wonder if this is an example of great minds thinking alike, or if the _Oz_ books (or possibly the general areas of childhood reading) engender these proclivities. Bob Spark ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 14, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:10:00 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-97 Bob: << It just struck me as interesting that people who grew up on the _Oz_ books seem to have similar tastes in other readings. I wonder if this is an example of great minds thinking alike, or if the _Oz_ books (or possibly the general areas of childhood reading) engender these proclivities.>> I wonder, do we have similar tastes in other readings? Based on what I've read on the Digest, that seems to be at least superficially true. Back when we did the Digest poll, I remember thinking that non-Oz reading tastes would be a good question. I have a feeling that some of my non-Oz favorites may be different from others. For example, anyone here like John McPhee or Edward Abbey? How about Ray Bradbury, Virginia Woolf, Cormac McCarthy? Other faves of mine I'm sure other Oz fans also like, such as Tolkien and the Chronicles of Narnia. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:53:00 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline >Bear: You say, >"Jeremy - You can now bring Kiex up on charges of assault and BATtery. :) >Good grief! He's infected me." >I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about there. The previous post you had Kiex (sounds like a radio station) attacking you with a BAT. Protect yourself, punster. Bob - I think you can count on subscribers to this digest having a taste for SF and fantasy literature. Now let's all give a big Digest Welcome to all the returning WINKIES. At least as soon as they catch up on their sleep and get over their jet lag. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:18:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-97 Hey everyone! This is a really strange question but...I read somewhere that a Baum quote from the intro of Lost Princess is on a Celestial Seasonings tea box. Does anyone know which flavor this is? BTW, I'm writing an Oz book with a friend...no title yet (possibly The Curious Cottabi of Oz or The Moon Sapphire of Oz). I want to use Kabumpo, who is featured in Kabumpo, Purple Prince, and Silver Princess of the FF (so far as I know). Purple Prince is not in Public Domain yet...can I still use the Elegant Elephant? Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:33:44 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-13-97 Doug & Lori: Welcome to the Digest! We start discussing The Road to Oz next monday, so you've come aboard at a good time. My favorite Thompson Oz books? Kabumpo in Oz, Handy Mandy in Oz, and Grandpa in Oz, in that order. Why? Just story line and great characters. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:11:57 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Doug and Lori: Congrats on starting in on the books. The movie is wonderful, and I'm sure you'll find that there is a tremendous amount of material in the books that goes far beyond everything that you imagined. My favorite Thompson book is _Captain Salt in Oz_. This is an unusual book since it is the only story in the original series that never actually reaches the Land of Oz. Nevertheless, I found it to be a great adventure story. Also close to the top are _Kabumpo in Oz_ and _The Wishing Horse of Oz_, mainly for the quality with which the stories were written. Kiex: True enough. Baum considered his Oz stories to be hack work, not anywhere near his "best", although history has judged differently. Also, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle did not particularly care for his Sherlock Holmes stories. It really is interesting how differently authors and fans sometimes view material. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:23:31 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Here I am, you lucky people, back from the wilds of New Hampshire. Starting at the very beginning of the stack of Digests waiting for me... In the 7/4 Digest, David Hulan asks to what city I would bus by myself as a child. It was Springfield, Massachusetts. Also, David asks if I spoke in jest in my long diatribe on terseness. Yes -- and I'm glad it provoked a laugh. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:15:03 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-13-97 Doug and Lori: My favorite Thompson (so far) is probably _The Gnome Kinjg of Oz_, probably because it had the most action, and I was a teenager when I read it. Jeremy and Kiex: Baum declared _The Scarecrow of Oz_ his best book ever. There is a show on HBO called _Oz_ which I have heard has something to do with a prison. Anyone know why it's called Oz. Is it kind of like _Wild at Heart_ in that they dream of escaping there? I don't have basic cable or premium channels, so I can't find out myself. There's also a late-night (oir rather early morning) show on low power local channel 53 here in Indianapolis called _Aerobics Oz Style_, which I imagine might be better called _Aerobics Aussie Style_, but I've never seen it, either. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:16:11 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digests, 07-11 & 13-97 My copy of the 7/12 Digest (which apparently exists, judging from some comments in the 7/13 Digest) seems to have disappeared into the maw of the Internet somewhere, so I'll only comment on the two that accumulated while I was at Winkies. (Which was a great con; I'll do a report on it later today or maybe tomorrow.) 7/11: Craig: I have a copy of _Merry-Go-Round_ from R&L, bought new. According to Bib Oz this is a first edition, but apparently some of the earliest copies were distributed with a dust jacket, even though the binding was the "white cloth" type that were usually distributed without DJ. Mine never had a DJ, and it appears from the discussion in Bib Oz that not many copies did (and presumably a fair number of those copies no longer have theirs). Tyler: I'm ready to move on to ROAD, though I confess I haven't reread it specifically for this discussion. I'll start that tonight. But I await Dave's Official go-ahead. Bob: I've seen the terms "areography" and "areology" used for the equivalents of "geography" and "geology" when Mars is in question, but personally think that since the disciplines are the same, it's just as well to stick to the traditional terms even if their translation from Greek isn't strictly accurate. If we start doing serious space traveling then replacing the traditional terms with "planetography" and "planetology" for the generic disciplines would probably be a good idea. (I know other people have already commented on this question, but I don't yet know what they said so thought I'd add my tuppence worth.) Douglas: As far as I know there aren't any reviews of the Famous Forty Oz books on the Internet, though it may be I just don't know about them. I've given my personal ratings of them all in the Digest a while back; I won't repeat them here, but will try to remember to do so in private E-mail a bit later today. These reflect my own views only, needless to say, which aren't necessarily those of other Oz fans. 7/13: Douglas: Yes, I have a favorite RPT book: _The Wishing Horse of Oz_. As to why - it's well-plotted adventure, without the collection of silly little towns with weird inhabitants that are so prevalent in her books, and we get to see and, largely, understand all the main characters, including the villains. _Speedy in Oz_ is almost as good, but most of it takes place outside of Oz itself and none of the continuing Oz characters plays a major role in the book. _Ojo in Oz_, _Handy Mandy in Oz_, and _The Silver Princess in Oz_ are other Thompson books that I think are well above her average, with _The Lost King of Oz_, _The Hungry Tiger of Oz_, and _The Yellow Knight of Oz_ also quite good. These are the Thompson books that I personally rate up with Baum's books (and better than _Dorothy and the Wizard_ and _Road_, which I consider pretty inferior Oz books even though Baum wrote them). Jeremy: I don't think Baum "did not consider the Oz series among his best or favorite works," although I've heard he thought _Sky Island_ was his best book. Since I agree with him on that, I can't really argue the point. But I think that was the only one of his non-Oz books that he thought was better than his better Oz books. (Incidentally, it would be "selenology", not "lunology"; "hadeology," not "plutology"; and something like "zeutology" (I'm not sure what the combining form of "Zeus" would be), not "jovology". I.e., the major planets have Latin names, but the discipline would take the equivalent Greek form.) Bob: If there were Martians (and I think we can be quite confident that there aren't), then they probably would resent as much the study of their planet's structure being called by a name from an Earth language as its using a name that implied "Earth." David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:55:22 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: I think Baum probably did regard the Oz books as among his best and favorite works. He was getting tired of doing them when he tried to break off the series with "Emerald City," but that isn't necessarily the same as disliking the ones he'd already done. After a couple of years of doing other books (that didn't sell as well), he came back to Oz, and there are arguments about whether his later Oz books are as good as the earlier ones, but a flling off at the end wouldn't really affect the quality of the series-at-its-best. (For that matter, I don't know that there'd be much agreement even to the idea that Baum's later Oz books are poorer than the earlier ones on average.) When he died, his last words were, "Now we can cross the shifting sands," and that sounds as if he thought a lot of the Oz books. Considering that he pulled most of his non-Oz fantasies into the same world geographically, and so in a sense made them into part of the series, it's hard to see what he wrote that he could have considered better than his "Oz" books. His best non- Oz books are pretty much all the ones that he made part of the Oz-world. Douglas and Lori Silfen: I think some of my favorites among RPT's Oz books are "Lost King" (besides, it's "historically" important, in Oz history, that is), "Ojo" (I like Realbad), "Yellow Knight" (interesting adaptation of knights-in-armor material to Oz surroundings), and "Ozoplaning" (most of the others who'vve commented on it here don't care for it, but I like the world-building). And her sea-voyages on the Nonestic are good, too, and then there's Jinnicky, and -- it's about as hard for me to pick favorites with RPT as with Baum. (And if you find that you enjoy her Oz books, don't forget that the IWOC has reprinted her "Curious Cruise of Captain Santa" and the collection, "The Wizard of Way-Up," as well as printing two late Oz books from her, "Yankee" and "Enchanted Island." Theoretically, the IWOC plans someday to bring out another collection of her shorter stuff, "Sissajig and other surprises.") Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Saundersrl@aol.com Subject: Digest To: DAVEH47@delphi.com First, do you have any of the books I need: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz The Marvelous Land of Oz Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz Pirates in Oz The Purple Prince of Oz The Pachwork Girl of Oz The Scarecrow of Oz The Wishing Horse of Oz Handy Mandy in Oz The Silver Princess in Oz Glinda of Oz The Wonder City of Oz The Scalawagons of Oz Lucky Bucky in Oz The Cowardly Lion of Oz The Magical Mimics in Oz Grampa in Oz The Shaggy Man of Oz The Hidden Vally Of Oz Merry Go Round in Oz I'm only looking for these books in later prints,no dust jackets,no writing,no water damage.But must have paper label. Next how do I subscribe to the digest,I would like info on it or just put me on. Thanks, Richard Saunders ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 13:32:43 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Scott wrote: >There is a show on HBO called _Oz_ which I have heard has something to do >with a prison. Anyone know why it's called Oz. I don't have HBO either, but there's a little info. about the show on their web page ... Apparently, it's about a rehabilitiation prison called "The Emerald City" ... One again, our Oz is maligned... David H. wrote: >If there were Martians (and I think we can be quite confident that there >aren't), then they probably would resent as much the study of their >planet's structure being called by a name from an Earth language as its >using a name that implied "Earth." On a related note, I am in the middle of a book called, _Yes, We Have No Neutrons_ about "bad science"...One of the things it discusses is how geocentric our searches for life elsewhere has been, including, regrettably, our of course favorite search program ever, "Project Ozma". My favorite Thompson books are _Wishing Horse_ and _Silver Princess_, and I'm glad that at last there's someone else (Ruth) who likes _Ozoplaning_... Of course _Ozoplaning_ is one of my favorites because it's the only book in or out of the FF (my as-yet unpublished works excluded) in which Jellia Jamb, one of my very favorite Ozites, has anything like a starring role... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 15, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 if anyone is in michigan (besides me) the flint planitarium (sic) is having laser oz what that means is they are doing a laser light show to the wizard of oz soundtrack i havent gone yet i havent had time but im planning on it and ill report back if anyone is in mich and wants to go email me off the digest ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:55:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi all. I just bought a copy of Dot and Tot of Merryland. It's in incredibly good condition. Bottom of the spine is a little scuffed. It's dark green, with red and black printing on the front cover and spine, DONOHUE on bottom of spine, really clean, copyright 1901. The rear endpapers are starting to give at the spine, but not yet, and some slight [[water??]] stainage on the right side edge of the cover. I paid a good amount for it, but I'm willing to trade it because I am really desperate to start an Oz collection. I'm looking for the later Thompson Oz books, like Silver Princess, Handy Mandy, Captain Salt, Ojo, and also Yellow knight. They were my favorites. It's impossible to find them here. I'd trade, or partial trade and partial sell this book for any of them. I prefer hardbacks, older editions. First editions are NOT important to me, and condition is not a big deal either. Please let me know if you are interested. Thanks! Kieran M. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:56:55 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-12 & 14-97 Dave was kind enough to re-send the 7/12 Digest, so once again I'll comment on two: 7/12: Lee: Depending on which titles you have, maybe you should get in touch with Richard Saunders (saunders@aol.com), who appears to be looking for just the sort of thing you're offering. Ruth: I didn't even know Hilton was British. I agree that in that case he's unlikely to have read the Oz books, even though he's the right age; they don't seem to have been at all popular in Britain. (Not sure they were even for sale there; I recall the letter from some kids in Australia to Baum from an afterword to one of the books that implied they weren't available there.) I can't remember details of what I thought of _Road_ as a child, but I know that my memories of it were much fonder before I finally acquired a copy in the mid-'60s and reread it. (This was also true, to a lesser extent, of _Tik-Tok_. _Ozma_ and _Scarecrow_, on the other hand, I remembered less fondly from my original reading, but liked very much upon rereading. _DotWiz_ and _Glinda_ I found about the same when I eventually acquired them as I remembered them. The other Baums I'd owned all along, so any changes in my perception of them was gradual enough that I'm not aware of it.) 7/14: Craig: Some of your favorite authors I don't even recognize, and of the rest I've only read Bradbury - though he's not a favorite of mine. (Not counting, of course, Tolkien and Narnia - though in the former case it's only _The Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings_ that I really like, and in the latter my rapture is distinctly modified.) My favorite reasonably prolific writers outside Oz are Edgar Rice Burroughs, L. Sprague de Camp, Georgette Heyer, Harry Turtledove, and Robert E. Howard. As you may note, I'm not much into the Deep stuff. Bear: I haven't really caught up on my sleep yet, but I should be able to finish this post before I feel the need to drop off again... Sarah: It's possible to use Kabumpo in a book now, but you have to be careful to avoid any reference to anything that happened in a copyright book (and he appeared in several that are still under copyright - _Lost King_ and _Forbidden Fountain_ as well as _Purple Prince_, not to mention all of the Neill books, though Neill's use of him is so at variance with Thompson's that you're not likely to infringe there if you stick to Thompson's characterization). Good luck with your story, by the way. Dick: _Kabumpo_ is one of those Oz books that I enjoy thinking about considerably more than I enjoy rereading. It has really quite a good story line, and interesting characters, but every time I reread it I find that it doesn't quite hang together right. I don't know if it's the pacing (though I think that's probably a lot of it), or something else, but it's one that could probably have used a good editor (which R&L doesn't seem to have had on staff, alas). _Grampa_ is another one that you like more than I do; I like Grampa himself very much, and Tatters and Urtha are fine, but Percy Vere is a pain in the patootie and spoils the book for me. We agree that _Handy Mandy_ is one of RPT's best, though. Tyler: I don't think that Baum thought his Oz books were "not anywhere near his "best", though he'd gotten tired of writing them long before the series was finished. I doubt seriously that he preferred "Aunt Jane's Nieces" or "Twinkle and Chubbins" or the like. As I said last post, I've heard that he (like me) considered _Sky Island_ his best book, but ISTR that it was the only non-Oz book that he considered better than his favorites among the Oz series. Earl: I didn't exactly "ask" if you spoke in jest in your diatribe about terseness; I said I was almost certain you were doing so. You've demonstrated too much intelligence (even if you are a Republican... ;-) ) and writing skill to have written something like that without its being in jest. Scott: I think Baum only declared that _Scarecrow_ was his best _Oz_ book. According to the review in the Chicago _Tribune_, the HBO show "Oz" is called that because it's set in the "Oswald Correctional Facility" - which naturally leads the inmates to call it "Oz", or by extension "The Emerald City". That's the only thin connection with "our" Oz. I wish they hadn't done it, but at least it's only on a pay channel, so it's probably not going to have much more effect than the various Australia-based stories, etc., using "Oz" as part of their titles. Oz, for the Great American Public, is still going to mean the MGM movie; the books, though still running a poor second, are probably going to remain in second place in terms of recognition despite this series. Ruth: I certainly don't agree that Baum's Oz series fell off in quality in the later books. My personal favorite (_Lost Princess_) is fairly close to the end. I find the quality fluctuates unpredictably through the course of the series, probably influenced by a lot of external factors; I personally feel the 3d, 7th, 10th, and 11th books are the best and the 4th, 5th, and 12th the worst - which doesn't correlate at all with any kind of uniformitarian hypothesis (either decline as his imagination ran out, or improvement as he got more practice at writing). Incidentally, I picked up a copy of _Wonderful Wizard, Marvelous Land_ at Winkies and read it on the plane flying home. While it had some interesting things to say, I don't recommend this book unless you can get it Really Cheap. (Since I paid Herm, who's probably the most reasonably-priced dealer around, $15 for it, you'd have to find a copy at a garage sale or the like to get it for what I think it's worth - which is about $3.) It's rife with inaccuracies (Betsy Bobbin involved with Pon and Gloria? C'mon! And that's just one out of scores.), and the author has an inflated opinion of the early books and a depressed one of the later ones. Plus, as a book written in 1974, she makes a big deal about how the Counterculture is reviving the popularity of Oz...when in retrospect, the Counterculture is essentially dead, and the popularity of Oz is steadily increasing (due in great part, I must say, to Books of Wonder, though Del Rey has also had a major hand in it). If you can find it in a library it's probably worth checking out just for laughs at the errors, but don't, by all means, take it seriously! (This addressed to the Digest in general; I imagine that you, Ruth, have already read it long ago.) World-building in _Ozoplaning_? I guess a little bit, but it's not something I really associate with that book. I rate it right down with _Road_ and _Hidden Valley_ as the worst of the FF not by Neill. And this is one that I've owned since I was a child, so I've reread it often over the years. Dave: Mention of your unpublished works reminds me that I was told at Winkies that the three finalists for the Centennial Contest have been selected. Their identities won't be revealed, but at least it means that now it should be safe for us to talk about our contest entries on the Digest (unless you find that Rachel Cosgrove Payes or Eloise Jarvis McGraw have subscribed!). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:54:05 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 In re: reading habits. Let's see now.... Charles Williams. Dorothy L. Sayers. Lewis and Tolkien of course. In the last few years I've been reading Aphra Behn, Samuel Richardson, Marie de France, Chretien de Troyes, and, of course, Mallory. (Tennyson comes off rather poorly when read soon after Mallory, I'm afraid.) I can usually be relied upon to pick up Eddings. All the golden-age SF writers. Carroll, including Sylvie and Bruno. This is just top-of-head stuff.... Oops! Forgot Jane Austen! Going beyond reading as such, like most literate computer people, I'm very fond of Stoppard. Shakespeare, natuerlich. And, of course, BABYLON 5! // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:25:39 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Scott - From what I hear HBO's "Oz" is another nausea producing prison picture. Consider yourself well off by avoiding it. The way I look at it, probably naively, every piece of contemporary TV "crap" I avoid is a vote for something better. I have great hopes for "Roar" beginning this week. I was a big fan of relativity but that was so well done and had such engaging characters it had to be dumped. Sigh. Favorite Oz Books - I guess I am different from most of you. My favorite Oz book is the one I am reading at the moment. :) David H. wrote: >If there were Martians (and I think we can be quite confident that there aren't) This is how you tell a sci fi from a fantasy fan. Of course there are Martians! They would think that Earth was devoid of life if they landed their probe in the middle of the Sahara Desert. David - you'll have to dig deeper. :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:06:59 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Sarah: My understanding is that characters used in the PD books are themselves PD. Therefore, since Kabumpo appears in some Oz books that have gone PD, you can use him, even though his debut book is still under copyright. I am not completely sure of this, though. Hopefully, such people as Chris Dulabone and Peter Glassman will weigh in on this, since they are in the know. Weird names: We may not have to worry about "Jovology" or "Zeusology", since mapping and otherwise exploring Jupiter is not really feasible. Richard Saunders: Hmmm, your name sounds familiar. Anyway, most of the Oz books that you mentioned are available from The Oz Club or Books of Wonder. Since a couple of people have commented that they really like _Ozoplaning_, I'll balance it a little with a comment that it is near the bottom of my list, just above the John R. Neill books. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:11:43 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 David Hulan, > If there were Martians (and I think we can be quite confident that > there aren't) No Dejah Thoris? No Tars Tarkas? Most particularly, none of Bradbury's magnificent Fire Balloons? Sir, I refuse to accept your hypothesis. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:32:50 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 OUR READING HABITS >Bob - I think you can count on subscribers to this digest having a taste >for SF and fantasy literature. i'd like to take exception to that. i detest, yes, detest sci-fi. i do like fantasy very much; i think there's a HUGE difference between those two genres. but nowadays the only fantasy i read is oz, and the rest of what i read is realistic fiction, especially that which deals with subtle sociology between people (e.g. wharton, james and the rest of that gang, but mostly modern writers). ONE LUMP OR TWO? >This is a really strange question but...I read somewhere that a Baum quote >from the intro of Lost Princess is on a Celestial Seasonings tea box. Does >anyone know which flavor this is? i remember seeing that quotation on my mother's box of tea. i looked in a past issue of the baum bugle for you, since i recalled reading about this tea box in there. the quotation appeared on the "strawberry fields" and "raspberry patch" flavors, and was culled from the foreword to _lost princess_. i reproduce the quotation in its entirety: "Imagination has brought mankind through the Dark Ages to its present state of civilization. Imagination [not to mention greed--ha ha] led Columbus to discover America. Imagination led Franklin to discover electricity. Imagination has given us the steam engine, the telephone, the talking machine, and the automobile, for these things had to be dreamed of before they became realities. So I believe that dreams--daydreams, you know, with your eyes wide open and your brain-machinery whizzing--are likely to lead to the betterment of the world. The imaginative child will become the imaginative man or woman most apt to create, to invent, and therefore to foster civilization." FAVORITE THOMPSON OZ BOOK: _the gnome king of oz_, hands down. i LOVE ruggedo. he's the greatest character. in fact, to make a bold statement, i like thompson better than baum. lyman can be a bit too somber for my taste, and snow totally got off on that aspect of his work, which ruins his two books for me. of course, snow was sort of a manic depressive nut-case from what i've read, but i digress. JACKETS THAT BIT THE DUST >I have a copy of _Merry-Go-Round_ from R&L, bought new. According to Bib >Oz this is a first edition, but apparently some of the earliest copies >were distributed with a dust jacket, even though the binding was the >"white cloth" type that were usually distributed without DJ. Mine never >had a DJ, and it appears from the discussion in Bib Oz that not many >copies did (and presumably a fair number of those copies no longer have >theirs). the story on that, as i recall, is that R&L decided to trash the dust jackets at the warehouse to make _merry-go-round_ uniform with the other white cover oz books of the 1960s. hence, another collector's item is born. * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:41:03 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: For the Ozzy Digest - OZ Richard: Thanks for the welcome to the Digest. I'm already to discuss the Road to Oz next Monday, since I just read it as you said. I'm afraid I didn't like it however. It is the only book I've read so far that I feel that way about. I hope I don't come through like a grouch since I really like the others so far. :-) All: Well, thanks all for your opinions on the best RP Thompson Oz book!! Lots of different views!! I think THE WISHING HORSE OF OZ is the only book mentioned by more than one person as a favorite. Ruth: Can you tell me why THE LOST KING OF OZ is important in Oz history without *spoiling* the story? Another question to throw out here: I've read the first 6 books and so far the Cowardly Lion's character is not really well developed. What book of the Famous Forty best develops his character?? Craig: My favorite fiction authors/books are Isaac Asimov, Robert Silverberg, and J.R.R. Tolkein. My favorite books are CAVES OF STEEL and THE SECOND FOUNDATION by Asimov. NIGHTWINGS and SAILING TO BYZANTIUM by Silverberg. The CHRONICLES OF AMBER by Roger Zelazny. THE PUPPET MASTERS by Heinlein. The Hobbit, The Trilogy and the SILMARILLION by Tolkein and HYPERION by Dan Simmons. As a book, I also love CLASSIC FAIRY TALES by the Opies as well as the Grimm's fairy tales. Some of Poe's stories are great too. As for non-fiction, I love history! history! history! Douglas Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:30:25 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission (Very slowly catching up.) In the 7/5-6 Digest Jeremy and/or KIEX asks, <"Excess verbiage"--was that a snide comment directed at my sense of humor or expression thereof?> My missal was aimed at no one in particular, and referenced a sin of which I, myself, at times am guilty. However, if you think that the shoe fits especially well in your case... ;-) And in the 7/7-9 Digest Ruth Berman asks, If you mean, how are things in my company's employer -- the US Government -- I can state with assurance that the verbiage never stops. Don't think that the mass of hot air centered over Washington is due just to the summer weather! :-) Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:02:05 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello, I'm a brand new Digest person, too. I'm glad to see some other newcomers. First, as far as similar non-Oz reading tastes, I do like Virginia Woolf - probably one of my favorites. Particularly _To the Lighthouse_. I like what I've read of Bradbury, too. I tend towards John Irving, Michael Crichton, Michael Chabon, and some lighter reading , Calvin and Hobbes. As for the Celestial Seasons, quote, according to _The Baum Bugle_ Autumn 1988, it was on the "Strawberry Fields' and "Raspberry Patch" boxes, and originally on the "Sunburst C" package. BTW, I'm a grad student in English and I'm specializing (right term?) in fairy tales and children's lit. Obviously, my focus is Oz. Right now, my current project centers on the illustrations. Anyone with any off-the-wall info that might help me? Peace & Love, Lisa Bompiani ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:47:19 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-09-97 Tyler wrote, way, way back on June 9th: > David and Gordon: > There was a "Twilight Zone" (or one of it's clones) in which an old man was > made young again on the outside, but not the inside. In any case, David's > theory seems more reasonable: That is, she really does look and feel like a > young woman, but she appears to herself as old. Actually, there are quite a few Twilight Zone episodes that explore the issue of eternal youth: Queen of the Nile, The Trade-ins, a Short Drink from a Certain Fountain, Nine-Millimeter Shrine, and the one you were probably thinking of, Long Live Walter Jameson.... BTW, Baruch (who will be 5 on the 17th) didn't get his entry into RCOO on time for "How to Escape from A Witch Using the Powder of Life". his germ of an idea: use the Powder to bring water to life, and have it throw itself on the witch! I thought it quite clever. Too bad he never overcame his lassitude to actually write it. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, behind as usual.... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:39:31 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-18-97 Bear asked if I worked for the NSA. No, but even if I did I'd have to say "no", so that proves nothing ;-) David: "Hulan" appears at a skip distance of 14 in two places in WOZ: The very nice /"No matter how dreary and gray our homes are, we people of flesh and blood would rather live there than in any other country, be it ever so beautiful. There is no place like home."/ (start at the h of 'live there' and count backwards), and the not as aesthetic /and the Scarecrow declared he could see as well as by day. So she took hold of his arm and managed to get along fairly well. "If you see any house, or any place where we can pass the night," she said, "you must tell me; for it is very uncomfortable/ (begin at the h in 'where' and count backwards) 'David' should appear about 600 times, but I didn't run all the way through it. It appears minimally in /"I might have passed my whole life in the farmer's cornfield." "And I should not have had my lovely heart," said the Tin Woodman. "I might have stood and rusted in the forest till the end of the world." "And I should have lived a coward forever," declared the Lion, "and no beast in all the forest would have had a good word to say to me."/ Start with the D in the start of the Tin Woodman's quote, and count forward every 28 letters. Aaron, "Adelman" appears at a minimal skip distance of 601 in Wizard of Oz starting at the a in 'agreed' in the Winged Monkey's story: / Of course my grandfather and all the other Monkeys at once agreed to the condition, and that is how it happens that we are three times the slaves of the owner of the[...]/, counting backwards (the last 'n' ends up near the begining of Dorothy's incantation to bring the monkeys.) Project Gutenberg doesn't have "Patchwork Girl" Sorry. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:47:18 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 06-19-97 (shades of Scott H.!) Dave quoted DOTWIZ on 6/19: "But why didn't you tell us at first?" [Dorothy] asked. "It would have spoiled the fun," replied the kitten, yawning. Does this foreshadow the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" Eddie: you mean you coulda got out of those handcuffs at any time? Roger: N-n-n-no! Only when it was funny! --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, only a month behind now :-) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 16:32:17 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things David Hulan wrote: >Their identities won't be revealed, but at least it means that now it >should be safe for us to talk about our contest entries on the Digest... I'm not sure about that...We'd better ask Robin and Steve... >...(unless you find that Rachel Cosgrove Payes or Eloise Jarvis McGraw have >subscribed!). For all I now, they *are*! MY READING BESIDES OZ: I'm not really big on fiction actually -- I like many children's books like Lewis Carroll, Roald Dahl, and _The Phantom Tollbooth_...I also like Jane Austen and Louisa May Alcott, though not as passionately as the aforementioned children's books...I also like Douglas Adams' _Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ series. I also read a lot of compilations of the humorous articles by Robert Benchley (*NOT* his grandson Peter of _Jaws_ fame!), Cornelia Otis Skinner, and Rita Rudner...And probably my favorite non-Oz book: _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N My K*A*P*L*A*N!_ by Leo Rosten...I always ROTFL at that one! :) WHAT ABOUT _THE LOST QUEEN OF OZ_??: :) Douglas Silfen wrote: >Ruth: Can you tell me why THE LOST KING OF OZ is important in >Oz history without *spoiling* the story? In short, Ozma finds her long-lost father, Pastoria. ( We're long overdue for a story in which her mum shows up! :) ) FIRST OZOPLANE TO JUPITER?: :) Tyler wrote: >We may not have to worry about "Jovology" or "Zeusology", since mapping and >otherwise exploring Jupiter is not really feasible. At least not with a rover...You *can* send probes into the atmosphere though...(Exploring Jupiter is purely meterological rather than geological.) Quickie "Oz on Charon" update: I got Frank Drake's E-mail Friday and sent him our pitch...So far no response... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 16, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:04:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark K DeJohn <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 From: Barbara DeJohn Hello everyone !!! I once again did not make it to an Ozcon yet. I have been a member of IWOC for about ten years so it is about time I attend one. I am aiming for the Winkie con for next year. The Kangaroo Outback Cafe near me (Pittsburgh, PA) is going to show the Wizard of Oz with the Dark Side of the Moon from Pink Floyd tomorrow night. My husband wondered if more Oz fans or Pink Floyd fans would be there. FWIW, I agree with David Hulan that those of you who are lamenting finding girls who like you more than as a friend need to look more at women than at girls. Many girls are still looking for Prince Charm- ing (i.e. rich and very good-looking). Women have learned that most of those guys are jerks and really don't make very good husbands. My husband sounds alot like some of you in that he didn't really start seriosly dating until he was in his twenties. We got married when he was 31. (He also isn't all that crazy about football and in Pittsburgh that is almost inexcusable.) It also doesn't hurt to remember that if you don't look like Brad Pitt that you shouldn't go after girls only go after that type. Ozzily Yours, Barbara DeJohn ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:11:59 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Other: My favorite non-Oz books are discussed on my web page, so I won't rehash it here. David: I probably unconsciously added the part about Baum considering the Oz books to be "FAR" from his best. All I know for sure is that he was getting tired of writing them. Ranking: I'll go with David Hulan and say that I found books 4, 5 and 12 to be Baum's worst, but I found 2, 3, 9 and 10 to be his best. Huh? I can find no connection between the Counterculture and increasing Oz popularity. What was that author smoking? John Kennedy: Aphra Behn? Wow! She was one of the "historical" characters in RIVEWORLD. Every once in a while I've looked for some of her work and could not find it. What have you been reading of hers and what do you think of it? Sci-Fi: IMHO, the best sci-fi is better than the best fantasy, but so much of sci-fi is lame and not worth the bother. To find the good stuff, you must search high and low. Doug: The Cowardly Lion is the only one of the Fab-Four (along with Dorothy, the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman) who never really makes much impact in the series. For some reason, authors prefer writing about the other three and the lion just never makes it. However, he does have some appearances in _The Cowardly Lion of Oz_, _Ojo in Oz_ and _Merry Go Round in Oz_. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:58:08 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 OZMA'S MOM: >In short, Ozma finds her long-lost father, Pastoria. ( We're long overdue >for a story in which her mum shows up! :) ) actually, ozma's mother is restored in ray powell's _mister flint in oz_, published by buckethead in 1987 and long since out of print. i was fortunate enough to get one of the last copies. * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:59:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 I'm home again. My tenet address may not be any good soon, so I think it's safest if y'all change my e-mail address to Ozmama@aol.com It's harder to access aol, but I think I'll try it. Tyler: RINKITINK is another book that has no Oz setting. Favorite RPT book is probably SPEEDY. Maybe WISHING HORSE. OJO is pretty high on the list, too. All three are tightly written yarns. I'm fond of PIRATES and SILVER PRINCESS, too, which is surprising since I didn't read them until I was an adult. PIRATES was especially satisifying since I'd read CAPTAIN SALT as a kid and wanted to meet Samuel in his first book. Also, perhaps because I grew up on the water, I like stuff about sailing ships. I'd report about Winkies if I thought it was appropriate for me to do so. I'm very biased since I cohosted the thing. Langley and I tried to make it a different kind of con, and I think we may have succeeded. We got everybody involved in stuff...an interactive wordfind, photo I.D. contest, people marching on stage during a singalong...general silliness and fun. The kids were still playing Twister when I finally went to my room at about 3:30 a.m. Sunday morning. (Having too much fun to sleep, but I paid for it by oversleeping later.) Lots and lots of interaction. One thing I must report: David Hulan was hilarious as the Gnome King. Good job, David. And Pete Hanff, now I know that there's probably nothing you won't do for the Winkies...including trying to sing... or should I say, "bellow"? What a good sport you were. FYI, y'all, Peter's not a singer, but he didn't let that stop him from, um, singing as the Scarecrow. He got a standing ovation (yes, I started it) and stopped the show...had to do an encore! Lynn Beltz and Eric Gjovaag were terrific in the skit, too. Enough. I'll leave the real reporting to Steve and David. Or, better yet, Lynn. Better only because she's the one who's s'posed to write the official report for IWOC. Speaking of Lynn Beltz...it would have been impossible to run the show without her. She's a trooper. Always willing, always capable, always there when y'need her. Thanks, Lynn. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:26:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 Centennial Book Contest: Yes, we've made our decision which three MSS go on to Eloise and Rachel. No, we can't say anything at all about which three they are...which MSS made the cut, or which didn't, which ones we thought were almost as good, etc. PLEASE don't ask. Both Steve and I are quite curious to learn the identities of the authors. We really don't know, except in rare instances where we know a character belongs to a particular author. I'm trying to reach John Fricke to determine which MSS need to be sent back to their authors. We'll return those which arrived with a SASE. HBO Oz: Not at all Ozzy, according to the L.A. TIMES. What a way to use a perfectly great name... RAYLYNN's WONDERFUL WIZARD, MARVELOUS LAND: David's right about the inaccuracies. This book was essentially her master's thesis. BTW, she most certainly *was* correct about a rebirth of interest in Oz in the '70s. For quite a few years before then, there were relatively few toys or ephemera made with an Oz theme. There was quite a burst of Oz ephemera in the '70s. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:27:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 Earl Abbe: I happen to find myself most greatly relieved and much made to feel in a better mood now that I am truly cognizant of the fact your statements condemning lack of terseness were spoken in a less-than-serious tone of speaking (unless my fingers should have entered a word other than that, perhaps altering it and substituting typing)? Verbosity Personified, Jeremy Steadman AND KIEX KIEX: The verbosity part is him; I'm the personified part. Jeremy: I'm not going to tell you what you are personified. KIEX: I sense insult there, but will pass over for now. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:10:01 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 As some of you can tell by now, I like searching for books. Craig asked for Merry Go Round, so I took a look... Craig: Yikes! Searching the world of books on the internet, the copies of Merry Go Round ranged from $450 to $800! The only cheaper book is an ex-library copy for $250. I think all of these prices are a bit high, especially considering the age of the book (though Ms. McGraw values it at $600). If you're desparate, the $450 copy came from the Book Mall of Ventura at (805) 641-2665. My son Andrew (age 4) and I had a great time at the Winkies on Saturday - we only went for the day, about a 2.5 hour drive each way. I find the conventions a great place to pick up books at fair prices. The auction this year was exceptionally well run by Patrick Maund, Robin Olderman and Eric Gjovaag (I hope I spelled his name right). Patrick shaved about 4 hours off the time it used to take, Robin's expressions (and distress when prices on what she wanted went high) were the most entertaining, and at one point Robin and Eric got into bidding against each other so much that when the first quit, they tried to gavel "sold" before giving anyone else the chance to bid. In all, an entertaining auction with fairly low prices. The highlight of our day was the children's auction, run again by a very brave Eric G. My son enjoyed it thoroughly, though it took a bit of time to figure out how it worked. Every kid of Ozzy toy, book, comic etc. was available. At the end of the auction, 4 young boys competed for the last 4 prizes by guessing a number between 1 and 20. Unfortunately, the young gentlemen did not understand "1 through 20" and it took a while and some creativity on Eric's part to get them all in that range. Even more entertainment than the adult auction. I encourage everyone to save up items to donate to next year's (or the Munchkins) children's auction. Nice seeing you all there! Joel Harris ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 05:13:43 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 Re: Favorite Thompson Oz Book: I've always been partial to _Kabumpo_. Problem is, while I know all the Baum plots by heart, I can only remember 3-4 Thompson plots offhand, unless someone or something jogs my memory. Thompson's stories move so quickly. Maybe I should reread _Wishing Horse_. I've only read it once. Re: David Hulan "Incidentally, I picked up a copy of _Wonderful Wizard, Marvelous Land..." That book was very controversial when it came out. Now you know why. I seem to remember the author (Raylyn Moore) making the point that Dorothy's companions represented animal (Cowardly Lion), vegetable (Scarecrow), and mineral (Tin Woodman). Your post brought back some memories. I haven't read it in 20 years. Re: Jackets on 1st editions of Merry-Go_Round I checked again and I purchased my copy of _Merry-Go-Round_ from R&L in 1972 (I still have the receipt). And, yes, it has a dust jacket (price $3.95). Re: Lisa Bompiani "Anyone with any off-the-wall info [about Oz illustrations] that might help me?" If you didn't already know, Baum (circa 1915), wanted to fire John R. Neill, but the publisher seemed to ignore his request. He was unhappy with Neill's work on _Scarecrow_, among other issues. Around 1917 or so Baum seemed to come around and praised Neill's work. I've always understood Baum liked Frank Ver Beck's (sp?) illustrations for _Mo_. On the other hand, Thompson and Neill seemed to get along fine to the point of being friends. Kramer and "Dirk" tried to copy Neill, and were therefore doomed to fail and were unsuccessful. Dick Martin didn't try to copy anybody--which is why I think his book (_Merry-Go-Round_) was so successful (style-wise). If you asked 100 Oz fans if they are glad Neill, and not Denslow, illustrated the bulk of the Oz series, I'm sure 99 out of 100 would agree that they prefer Neill. That's interesting, considering that Denslow is by far the most famous and innovative of the two... Anyway, I doubt if any of this was "off the wall"--just my 2 cents... Re: Michael Turniansky "Twilight Zone" in which an old man was made young again...." My favorite "Twilight Zone" almost falls into that catagory--"Walking Distance" Sometimes there is only "one [summer] to a customer....." Re: "Michael Turniansky "..."Hulan" appears at a skip distance of 14 in two places in WOZ...(begin at the h in 'where' and count backwards)...'David' should appear about 600 times, but I didn't run all the way >through it...." Geez, I hope you're using a computer to do this! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:25:26 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave <"belgrave@teleport.com"@teleport.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 Dave... Ok, I'm embarrassed to say I haven't sent my check yet. I had it written out and I can't find your address again. Maybe I'm not the only one so if you could repost (for the third time!) your snail-mail address I would appreciate it. Bear... I looked at the July Esquire and I couldn't find the article you mentioned on "Lunitics on the web". Could you give me a page number. Maybe it should have been the June issue and I got confused. Sarah... What is the quote from Lost Princess. I'll see if I can find it on my tea. Barbara D... Hows the plans for the T-shirts coming? Peter H... Thanks for the info on Train travel. I know I'm a little late on this discussion but I used to live in the San Jouquin valley so I found it very interesting. I read that one of the dresses worn by Judy in the movie is at one of the Planet Hollywoods. Does anyone know which one? How about any other info on where other costumes are. I know the scarecrows costume is at the Smithsonian in Washington. Barb B ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Hi All, I'm back in circulation after having travelled almost continuously since the Ozmopolitan Convention. Just back from Winkies, but am afraid that another European trip and family obligations will force me to miss the Munchkin meeting this year. As to the piled up Ozzy Digests, I have regretfully decided to delete those prior to this week so I can get up to date. Craig: On the OZ CHRISTMAS CARDS of Fred Meyer, the article appeared on page 3 of the Winter 1987 Bugle. In it Fred summarizes the thirty years of cards from 1957-86, mostly featuring mythical titles of Oz books that might have been written if the authors had lived (or written) longer. Bob Spark, When in doubt, consult Webster. GEO definitely is from the Greek, and means "Earth" or "of the Earth". So using it in the Martian or planetary sense is definitely an unwarranted extrapolation of its meaning. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:13:00 +0100 (MET) From: "Romano, Tina" Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 Dear Dave, yesterday I have discussed my Thesis on The Wonderful Wizard Of Oz at The University of Rome. I want to thank you all for the assistance given to me throughout the year - first contact with the Ozzy Digest happened exactly one year ago! - The Thesis has been supported by a videotape showing the syncronization of The MGM movie and the Dark Side of The Moon. It was a success. The Thesis itself has been divided into three sections: the first is a survey on the literary scene of Baum's era. The second represents a collection of major criticism on various historical, social and political topics including Populism and teosophy. The Last section has been dedicated to The Ozzy Digest, The Baum Bugle, Internet & Oz, Movies, Music, Theatre for a total of nearly 300 pages. A very special thank you goes to David Parker that provided me with a grat amount of info and articles. And to Herm Bieber for the provision of the books. All of you guys have been precious. Thank You and I'll keep reading you with pleasure. Ciao Tina ---------- From: Dave L. Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 Date: 15 July 1997 17:09 <> Return-Path: Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:09:08 -0700 From: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Large message has been converted into an attachment. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:12:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 Regarding the Baum-got-worse-as-he-got-older theory: I agree with David on this....some of his best books were written towards the end (particurally, IMO, Lost Princess (my very favorite) and Tin Woodman), and some of his worst were towards the beginning (I'm not too fond of DotWiz or Road). Fav Thompsons: I have a hard time deciding on favorite Thompsons. I really enjoy elements of several....Kabumpo, Grampa, Gnome King, Giant Horse, Wishing Horse and Silver Princess (Kabumpo in Oz holds a particurally special place in my heart as the first post-Baum book I found (in the school library), the first post-Baum book I read, and the subject of constant enjoyment, when I was six years old, during Drop Everything and Read time. ;-) ). However, if I were to try and pick the ones that work best as I complete _story_, I don't think it would be possible! Thompson's books are much more episodic than Baum's, and don't work as well as complete stories. Other fav authors: Lewis Carroll ('For the Snark was a Boojum, you see...'), Roald Dahl, Conan Doyle (Holmes _and_ Challenger), E Nesbit, Asimov (particurally the Robot series), and various Star Trek and Doctor Who authors. Tyler: I thought Kabumpo became PD this year? R.M.: Thanks! Douglas, on the Cowardly Lion: Wizard develops his character best. He is not a major character in any other book...although he does very well as a secondary character in Lost Princess. He takes center stage in Thompson's Royal Book and Cowardly Lion, and Merry-Go-Round (have I missed some? It seems he was a major character in another Thompson...). However, none of those seemed to really advance his character. To everyone: Can anyone tell me which books have been released in first edition facsimiles? I know BoW has Wizard thru Scarecrow, and IWOC has Wishing Horse....what others are there? Name games: Can anyone find the name 'Sarah'? Particurally in one of my favorite books, like Land, Patchwork Girl, or Lost Princess? Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:16:25 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 Sarah: I read about the tea in the Bugle, and it was on two flavors, one was Strawberry Patch. Anyway, the quote is not on the current packaging. Dave: Do you like the Children's Theatre Company Marvelous Land of Oz, with Rana Haugen as Jellia Jamb? They greatly expanded her role. Haugen's only role in a regular movie was in Mike Binder's _Crossing the Bridge_ which I saw last Friday. She is only in once scene, has about three lines, and you barely catch a glimpse of her. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:11:03 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: For the "Ozzie Digest", comments on _The Flying Girl_ Hi! I just finished _The Flying Girl_ by Baum in "Oz Story Magazine No. 3" (Hungry Tiger Press). I would like some comments from others who have read it. My first reaction is that it certainly doesn't come up to the quality of the Oz books. I found the story line to be too "busy" with too many sub plots, most of which were barely developed. The characterization was confusing. To me, the most interesting characters were Cumberford and his daughter, Sybil. She is described as a "demon" and he a "scoundrel", but their actions are vastly at odds with these characterizations. Even making allowances for the prevailing attitudes of the times, many of the statements of the protagonists were quite stilted. I had the feeling that this was the rough draft of a work that Baum was planning to refine and develop into a series, possibly with offshoots to other series (what is the plural of "series", anyhow?). At any rate, I felt it needed more work. Whadda ya think? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:24:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 I got a copy of the CD _The Best of Meco_ yesterday. It's got the single version of his take on _The Wizard of Oz_, and I must say I hope they release the complete album on CD. Dave: I read _wonderful Wizard, Marvelous Land_ a long time ago, and remember finding it very difficult to understand, but sometimes insightful (I was in fifth or sixth grade wen I read it, but I don't remember it well, but now that you mention it, I do remember her talking about the rise of the counterculture, and I started thinking that was strange when that would have been on the decline when she wrote it. By the way, I guess I'm a Republican, too, even though I usually don't vote straight-ticket, I vote in the Republican primary... That brings to (at least) five films or TV series titled simply Oz (Lofven, MWS, Yamada, Shanahan, HBO)! Bill Dempster is supposedly going to give me a tape of the opening and ending credits to the late sevenites hard core porn version of _The Wizard of Oz_ so I can add it to my filmography. He's going to send the whole thing to Justin Schiller, because he wanted it for the building of a club site "X-rated drawer" since someone already donated a pornographic Oz comicbook... Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:31:36 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Oz Convention Report As previously promised, here's my report on the 1997 Winkie Conference - "A Celebration of Friendship": I flew into San Jose, rented a car, and drove down to Pacific Grove on Thursday afternoon, arriving at the Butterfly Grove Inn around 4:00. I was just opening the door to go into my room when a car drove up behind me and Digest folk Robin Olderman and Lynn Beltz, along with Lynn's sister Betsy, chorused out "Her-man Bieber" to the tune of the opening of the "Hallelujah Chorus". I turned around and got an "Oops!" I don't know whether Herm or I should be more insulted...we're about the same height and breadth, maybe, but he has more hair than I do (from behind), and on the other hand it's whiter. Anyhow, that got things off to a good start, and shortly I migrated over to the Beltz suite where a reception with food and drink was laid on. Most of the early arrivals were Oogaboos, but they're among the most fun people in the IWOC anyhow, so that was no hardship. Peter Hanff and Michael Riley (who'd enjoyed Ozmopolitan so much that he decided to come to Winkies as well) arrived pretty soon, and others were in and out. Names familiar on the Digest would also include Eric and Laura Gjovaag and Patrick and Rita Maund. A bit before 7:00 most of us adjourned to an Italian restaurant in downtown Monterey, whose name I forget - Gido's, I think, or something like that. Same place the Thursday arrivals ate in '95, and probably '96 as well (though I couldn't make it last year). Good food and excellent conversation. By the time I got back to my room after dinner, it was 9:30, and since it was two hours later by my body clock, I turned in almost immediately. Friday morning I didn't really see any of the Oz people that I recall; I read a while in my room and then drove into Pacific Grove's small downtown and had brunch. One of the mildly awkward things about the setup at Winkies, for those who arrive Thursday and don't have any major responsibilities, is that you have to check out of the Butterfly Grove Inn by 11:00 and can't check into Asilomar until 3:00. This year, since I was participating in the "revue", I at least had a rehearsal to come to Asilomar for at 1:30, but that still left me with 2 1/2 hours to kill somehow. So I headed down Highway 1 and drove most of the way to Big Sur and back. On a clear day this is a gorgeous drive; that day it was foggy and so not so appealing, but there was still a lot of atmosphere, driving along on the edge of a cliff with redwood-covered slopes on one side and a sheer drop to the ocean on the other. I got to the meeting room at Asilomar just at 1:30, though the actual rehearsal didn't get started for most of another half hour, as first one of the cast would disappear, and then when he or she returned, someone else would have wandered off. Some of the skits went well from the beginning; others Langley Brandt, who was directing, wanted to rehearse over and over. Mine, fortunately, went reasonably well the first try and I only had to redo a little business at the end a couple of times. By the time my turn was finished it was 4:00, so at least I didn't have to stand in line to get my registration package and room key. Every other time I've gone to Winkies I've been in a room that's about as far from the meeting room as you can get and stay on the same side of the main road, but this year I got a room that was right next it - which was _much_ more convenient for many purposes. Dinner that night was actually quite good; Asilomar has a new management, and the food was definitely better all weekend than I'd been used to at earlier conferences. I ate at a large table with mostly Oogaboos again - Lynn and Betsy, Karyl Carlson, Linda Clark, David and Duane Baker, and a few others I can't remember at this remove. (The table seated ten.) The evening program was quite enjoyable. First there was a "Show and Tell" moderated by Robin Olderman, the most spectacular items probably being a couple of old music box discs dating from about 1905, with songs on them from the stage _Wizard of Oz_. Then Peter Hanff gave a slide presentation giving some of the fine points of Oz bibliography, followed by a sing-along led by Robin. Each registration packet had contained a plastic spoon and either a whistle or a kazoo, so when we sang "By the Light of the Silvery Moon" we were instructed to beat out a rhythm with the spoons (whatever rhythm the individual selected), and on "Seventy-six Trombones" we were to make some noise with the "instrument". And we sang a few other songs as well. Finally, Leonard Swann gave the same talk and showed the same "teaser" video from his "Oz: The American Fairyland" video that he had at Ozmopolitan. Then we adjourned to the party room, where along with a fair amount of general shmoozing Patrick Maund led us in a male-vs-female "pictionary" contest. It didn't settle anything, though; contestants were given a full minute for their drawing, and nobody failed to get the right answer well within the time limit. I'd gotten onto Pacific Time fairly well by then, and rather surprised myself by staying up till nearly 1:00. I'm normally an early-to-bed type, heading for bed around 10:00 and asleep by 10:30, but I was having too good a time to leave earlier. The first item on the program the next morning was, as usual, the costume parade. Most of them were quite good, and I had a hard choice in the adult competition between someone's Torpedo from PURPLE PRINCE (anybody know who that was?) and Virginia Fowler's Queen Cross-Patch from GNOME KING, though I finally voted for Virginia because she had a better presentation (and she won). The children's division was no contest; a little 4-year-old (I would guess) boy was dressed as the Hungry Tiger, and had so much fun "roaring" at the audience that even though his costume wasn't too elaborate, I had to vote for him. (And he also won.) Then Lynn directed some Ozzy games, which I didn't get around to participating in - I had several things I wanted to do in that interval, and while they looked like fun, I passed. After that came the quizzes, and I finally succeeded in winning the "Masters'" quiz. I'll acknowledge that neither of the people who had beaten me in my earlier tries - Robin and Eric Gjovaag - took this one, but the best they could have done was tie, since I got all the answers correct. (I don't know if other conventions have a Masters' category or not; Ozmopolitan doesn't seem to. It's for people who've already won the adult quiz at Winkies. As winner, I get to make up the one for next year.) After lunch there was the usual brief business meeting - mostly to announce the program chairman for the next year, Katie Fleming - and then the auction. This time I had actually seen a few things I wanted to bid on, so I sat through it and did manage to pick up a couple of the things I wanted - a 1st of LOST KING with all the color plates, though not in really good condition otherwise, and an early reprint of DOT AND TOT that was in better shape than the early edition that I have, though not in great condition. Still, I got both for prices that I found reasonable. (Joel Harris was nice enough not to bid me up higher on LOST KING; I don't think I'd have gone much beyond where I did.) After the auction the dealers' room opened, and I bought a few more items - four more books from Buckethead, the WONDERFUL WIZARD, MARVELOUS LAND book that I mentioned in yesterday's post, and a T-shirt and sweatshirt with Ozzy printing on them. After dinner they presented the awards for the Research Table and the quizzes, and then the Winkie Award, which went to former Digest member Eric Gjovaag. Barbara Koelle then gave a very interesting slide presentation on "The Women of Oz". She confessed that three characters in particular she had to place on the borderline - were they "women" or "girls"? Although it could be argued either way, she elected to consider Ozma, Polychrome, and Jenny Jump as "girls", although she showed slides of all of them to convey the ambiguity. She divided them into various categories - witches (good and bad), queens, fairies, transformed characters, etc., and talked about each. And then it was time for The Reely Big Shew. Lee Speth was the "stage manager", and his wife Dolores was the WWW (with Golden Cap, even). They sort of introduced the various acts, to provide something resembling continuity. First Virginia Fowler as Trot and (I think) Steven Koontz as Button-Bright had a dialog where Button-Bright never said anything but "I don't know." This concluded with Trot saying she was going to wash that man right out of her hair, taking off her cap to show a multicolored fright wig, and taking off the wig and pretending to scrub it in a mini-washtub while lip-synching the song (only the last part of the tape was inadvertently erased the night before, so it concluded with Ryan Bunch, the very able accompanist, picking up the tune as she went off). Then Patrick and Rita Maund entered as Pon and Gloria, doing their dialog in Boris-and-Natasha Russian accents and then Patrick declaiming "I Don't Want to Set the World on Fire (I Just Want to Start a Flame in Your Heart)" in a similar accent. Following that Peter Hanff as Professor Woggle-bug and Mark de la Tour as Jack Pumpkinhead did an amusing job of murdering "Bidin' My Time", "Isn't It a Pity", and "Friendship". Lea Thorin and (I think) Sean de la Tour (I'm not positive which of the two boys was Steven and which Sean, though I think that's right) then entered as Ozma and Tip; Lea sang "Try to Remember" and they did duets on "Pennies from Heaven" (during which the WWW threw 8-inch cardboard pennies out into the audience like Frisbees, producing lots of ducking) and "Blue Skies". Both of them (unlike much of the rest of the cast) could stay on tune, but their voices weren't very strong and I'm not sure if the people in the back rows could hear much besides the piano. And then I made my entrance as Ruggedo. As it turned out, everyone else in the cast had either a costume or a prop for their role, but I hadn't anything of the sort, so after Lee said, "Look, it's the Nome King!" or something like that, I ad-libbed, "Curses! He's penetrated my clever disguise as an immigrant from Chicago!" which got a decent laugh. And then after a short lead-in I did a recited version of "Whene'er I Spoke Sarcastic Joke," from Gilbert & Sullivan's lesser-known opus _Princess Ida_. (Steve Teller and David Bratman both recognized it, though; others may have but didn't mention it.) I was a bit nervous, because it's been over 20 years since I've gotten up on stage for anything but a technical presentation, and for those they don't grade you on the same kinds of things, but it was fun. I think it went over well enough; at least a lot of people said they'd enjoyed it. I was followed by Lynn, who did an Aunt Em monologue that was very funny; sometimes it sounded as if something of Rigmarole Town must have rubbed off on her during her brief visit there in _Emerald City_. And then the final skit featured Eric Gjovaag as the Scarecrow and Liz Schaible as Scraps. Liz was the only person in the show who demonstrated any real singing talent, doing a fine job on "You're the Top," "I've Got the World on a String," and "'Zing' Went the Strings of My Heart;" Eric, who preceded those with "My Funny Valentine," to put it charitably demonstrated no such talent... But, like Peter and Mark earlier, he hammed it up very well, and nobody really cared that he only got near the tune occasionally. Finally, we all came out and did a chorus line that concluded with our all singing, to the best of our respective abilities, "Love Is Here to Stay," with the last line changed to "Our Oz is here to stay." The audience seemed to enjoy the whole thing, and I know I enjoyed being part of it. And then the evening concluded with a repeat - augmented by a few additional slides contributed by Robin and Barbara Koelle - of Peter's "Together Through the Years" slide show of past Oz conventions that he did for Ozmopolitan (and may be going to do for Munchkins). Then it was party time again, and this time I amazed myself by staying up until almost 3 AM. (In the morning I remarked to my breakfast companions that I hadn't partied that late in at least 15 years, and when I woke up in the morning I remembered why! But it was worth it.) The high (?) point, or at least the most memorable, was a cassette tape that Patrick played of a retired postal worker - Shubie something - scat-singing very badly to a number of almost-unrecognizable songs, including "Over the Rainbow." And there was a very good joke that Patrick, I think it was, told about another retiring mailman, that I'd better not share on the Digest. But if any adult wants it in private E-mail, let me know and I'll send it to you. And that, mostly, was it. The IWOC video projector went on the fritz before the convention, and while a replacement was rented (At Enormous Expense) for the Swann presentation Friday night, it was not considered worth the cost to keep it to show the Oz Kids video that was scheduled for Sunday morning. Since that was the only real program item scheduled (other than the treasure hunt for kids), there was nothing but the closing ceremonies, which didn't amount to much but Langley passing the Chairman's Vest on to Katie and a final chorus of "Love is Here to Stay." As I said in an earlier post, it was a great convention. Barring some kind of disaster, I have every intention of going back again next year, when the theme will be "Ozma of Oz" - the character, not the book. And I hope to see many of you there. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:31:06 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Tyler >We may not have to worry about "Jovology" or "Zeusology", since mapping and otherwise exploring Jupiter is not really feasible. Sigh! Another SciFi fan. Come on Tyler - stretch that imagination. Atticus - Have patience, your taste will develop with time. >"Imagination has brought mankind through the Dark Ages to its present state of civilization. Imagination [not to mention greed--ha ha] led Columbus to discover America. Not funny. This modern Liberal equating of greed to imagination, the spirit of adventure and the profit motive is really jejune. You're reading to much sociological drivel with a thinly disguised philosophical agenda. >snow was sort of a manic depressive nut-case from what i've read You also need to learn that in these PC days we don't call people with mental illnesses "nut-cases." In case you don't know, being a manic-depressive is not usually a matter of choice. Some of my best friends are bipolar. Bitingly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:33:19 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-15-97 David: I should have explained that my "Thompson" preferences were recollections dredged up from the depths of my childhood memories, some 50 plus years past. As I reread them, I imagine some of my preferences will change. Douglas: From comments expressed by subscribers over the past year or two on the Digest, you are far from being alone in your dislike of The Road to Oz. Winkie Con-goers: So, how was it?? Please enlighten us! Dick ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 17, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:34:21 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 David, great job relating what happened at the Winkie convention! Is there anyone out there who can give some details about the auction? Thanks! Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:11:32 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Barbara: Your hubby lives in Steel Town and is not a football nut? Yikes!!! While I have never been to Pittsburgh, I'm a Steeler fan from all the way back to the 70's. Three Rivers stadium is my Mecca, and I shall go there one day to worship at the alter of Terry Bradshaw :-) Atty: Didn't your story _A Wonderful Journey in Oz_ also mention either Ozma's mother or her grandmother? Sarah: _Kabumpo_ was written in 1922, and 1922 + 75 = 1997. According to David Hulan, the book goes PD at the end of the year, so it is on its last legs, as far as copyrights go, if I am correct. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 07:59:24 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Doug and Lori Silfen, welcome to our eclectic little group! You ask for our favorite Thompson Oz book, and why. I am not sure of mine, maybe it's _Kabumpo_, because he and I are so similar. :-) In the 7/13 Digest, Bob Spark finds it and . Bob makes a good point, but I don't think that our "great minds" all think alike. But we are, in general, an intelligent group with an interest in the fantastic, and intelligence does tend to take advantage of the the opportunities of interest available. In the 7/14 Digest, Sarah G. Hadley asks which flavor of Celestial Seasonings tea comes in a box which carries a quote by Baum from his introduction to _Lost Princess_. None, now, I think. It was Sunburst C and Strawberry Fields in the late '80s. See my write up in "Oz and Ends" in the Autumn 1988 _Baum Bugle_. Also in the 7/14 issue, Ruth Berman mentions Baum's quoted dying words as evidence of how highly Baum thought of his Oz books. I think that the words are ambiguous, and could just as well mean that he could finally quit the Oz business. One last word on _DotWiz_ (which seems to has disappeared from the discussions): The video of the same name showing Rob Roy MacVeigh's watercolors with a simplified version of the story (1993) is probably no longer available, but serious collectors should pick up a copy if one is found -- both for completeness and as a remembrance of Rob. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:28:21 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 Sender: BARLOW NATE > The Kangaroo Outback Cafe near me (Pittsburgh, PA) is going to show the Wizard of Oz with > the Dark Side of the Moon from Pink Floyd tomorrow night. My husband wondered if more Oz > fans or Pink Floyd fans would be there. Hey, there are some Oz and Floyd fans out there! Too bad for me the Outback Cafe never did that when I lived in Pittsburgh (I only left there about a year ago). Nate ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:20:35 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 Hi everyone, Does anyone recall this piece of ozian craft being sold several years ago? Tin wall sculpture of Dorothy, Scarecrow, Tin Woodman and Cowardly Lion (based more on Neill than MGM). Large (~3 feet long?) and painted. If so, any idea what it might be worth? Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:18:36 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: I read "Wonderful Wizard, Marvelous Land" when it came out, but don't have clear memories of it. // Enjoyed your Winkiecon report. I take it that the days didn't seem lank and long, though all went right and nothing went wrong. Atticus: It seems surprising that you don't like sciencefiction. Perhaps you've been running into poor examples of the field? I'd make a guess that Ray Bradbury, Samuel R. Delaney, and Ursula LeGuin might all be sf authors you'd enjoy, if you care to try them. Dave Hardenbrook: It seems surprising that you say people could be be subscribing to the Ozzy Digest and you wouldn't know they were. You mean they could subscribe under pseudonyms? (Then, too, people might read other people's copies, without subscribing themselves, I suppose.) Sarah Hadley: For interest in Cowardly Lion, you could also look up Baum's "The Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger" in "Little Wizard Stories." Robin Olderman: Enjoyed your shorter Winkiecon comments, too. Bear: Actually, Baum was misled about Columbus -- and most people still are. It wasn't so much imagination as wishful delusion that led him on. In his day, most people thought the world was round, and about 25,000 miles round. They were right. Columbus thought it was only about half that distance, and assumed that there would be nothing comparable to Africa to block the way, so that it would be much quicker and easier to sail to India by going west than by going east. He was wrong on both counts, but in the process discovered something more interesting, an entire (as it seemed) "new world." Dave Hardenbrook: Was the "Large message has been converted into an attachment" ATT1 something we were supposed to receive as part of the Digest? I don't think I received it (or maybe don't know how to identify it). Ruth ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:37:05 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 It looks as if there was a 7/15 Digest that I didn't get. I'll talk to my ISP about this, but meanwhile, Dave, could you re-send that one? Barbara: I hope to see you at Winkies next year, then! (Although it's a little surprising that you'd choose that convention - even though it's generally the biggest and arguably the best - when either Ozmopolitan or Munchkin are so much closer to you. Do you have relatives or friends on the West Coast that you'll combine a visit to with Winkies?) Tyler: Well, we agree on most of Baum's books - though I prefer 7 and 11 to 2 and 9. >Huh? >I can find no connection between the Counterculture and increasing Oz >popularity. What was that author smoking? You'd have to read the book. Oz - though I think mostly the movie - was popular among the Counterculture, but at the time the book was written the CC was already declining, and the popularity of Oz was continuing to rise. I don't think there was any connection at all, but the author seemed to think so. I think the Cowardly Lion has about as much impact on the series as the Tin Woodman. The Scarecrow and Dorothy are the two characters from WIZARD who play really major roles through the rest of the series. Except for his own book, the Tin Woodman had fairly brief appearances in the rest of Baum (he was onstage at some length in LAND and OZMA, but he didn't really _do_ much), Thompson didn't use him at all except in crowd scenes until her last book, Neill gave him a brief role in LUCKY BUCKY, Snow and McGraw didn't use him at all, and Cosgrove gave him a moderate role in HIDDEN VALLEY (but about an equal one to the lion). The lion was a bit player in Baum, but Thompson gave him fairly important roles in ROYAL BOOK (the one where he's strongest, Î think), COWARDLY LION, and OJO, and McGraw did in MERRY-GO-ROUND. It's arguable which has the more important part, but I don't think it's clear-cut either way. Incidentally, in my contest entry (Hah! I can talk about it now!) one point I explain is why the lion, though brave in battle, is so terrified of thunderstorms in RB and CL. Of course, we don't know whether he's afraid of them in Baum because to the best of my recollection there's never a thunderstorm, or even any rainfall, in Oz in the Baum books. Anybody remember an instance? (There are references to past rainfalls, of course, that rusted the Tin Woodman and Tin Soldier. But I don't remember it ever raining on stage, as it were.) Robin: Your new E-mail address duly entered in my address book. RINKITINK takes place mostly outside Oz, but they do go there in the last chapter. Which is also true of OZMA, as far as that goes. (Maybe it's the last two chapters of OZMA.) CAPTAIN SALT is the only book that takes place entirely outside Oz. CAPTAIN SALT, HANDY MANDY, the first two Neills, HIDDEN VALLEY, and MERRY-GO-ROUND are the Oz books I read for the first time as an adult. I rate HM and MGR among my favorites, CS as about average, and the other three at or near the bottom. So I don't think the age at which one encounters a book has a necessary impact on how one likes it. I affirm that you and Langley succeeded admirably in your running of the Winkie Conference this year. See my report. If you send back MSS to authors who enclosed postage (I don't think any of the serious entries could go in an _envelope_) before the final decision is made, doesn't that contradict your statement that you can't tell anyone that their MS didn't make it to the finals? I've told you which MS was mine. I know who wrote quite a few of the others, but I'll leave it to the individual authors to tell you which they were (though obviously we all know who wrote _Locasta and the Three Adepts_ and _Tip_). Joel: Those prices for MGR sound ridiculous, although it apparently didn't get a big first printing and was never reprinted. Still, there's nothing much other than Collectibility to distinguish the R&L from the BoW version; I can't see why a 1963 book would command that kind of price. I guess I should take better care of my copy... Scott O.: I sometimes have difficulty remembering which Thompson book a particular oddball little community appears in; she did so many of them, and some of them are so similar. I always have to stop and think whether the Illumi Nation is KABUMPO and Torpedo Town PURPLE PRINCE or vice versa, for instance. One of the reasons WISHING HORSE is my favorite book of hers is that it doesn't include any such irrelevant incidents. (The Dooners might count, but that's such a brief encounter that it doesn't confuse things.) I just checked and I bought my copy of MGR - new, but no jacket - in 1973. I never thought "Dirk" tried to copy Neill, though Kramer definitely did. I don't like "Dirk"'s illustrations, but they're much more cartoonish and less realistic than Neill's. (So are Martin's.) Herm: >When in doubt, consult Webster. GEO definitely is from the Greek, and means >"Earth" or "of the Earth". So using it in the Martian or planetary sense is >definitely an unwarranted extrapolation of its meaning. On the other hand, the ancient Greeks didn't have a concept of Earth as one planet among many; when they referred to "the earth" they were thinking of "this solid ground we're standing on," not "the third planet from the Sun." That being the case, I don't think it's an unwarranted extension to use the "geo-" prefix to refer to whatever solid ground one might be standing on, even if it's Mars or Ganymede. Tina: Glad to hear that your thesis was well received. Sarah: KABUMPO doesn't become PD until the end of this year. The rule is to add 75 to the copyright date, and the book goes PD at the end of that year. Since KABUMPO was copyright 1922, it goes PD at the end of 1997. IWOC also has produced facsimiles of SCARECROW and SPEEDY; I don't know if they're still available or not. And BoW also has recently done one of ROYAL BOOK, and I imagine will continue with KABUMPO next year if RB sells reasonably well. (I've bought _my_ copy. Have you?) Of course, once you get past WISHING HORSE the question of what's a "facsimile" and what's just a "reprint" gets foggy, since none of those books ever had color plates in the first place. BoW has hardcovers of the three Neills and MGR, and the IWOC has one for HIDDEN VALLEY and possibly some of the late Thompsons; I forget. Bob: I haven't read _The Flying Girl_ yet, though I have a copy of OSM 3 and intend to get to it fairly soon. So I can't comment on it. I can, however, tell you that the plural of "series" is "series"; it's a 5th declension Latin word (like "species"), and the nominative plural in that declension is the same as the nominative singular. Scott H.: Voting in the Republican primary doesn't make you a Republican. I've voted in the Republican primary for the last 25 years or so; it lets me vote against the _truly_ obnoxious types twice. (Not that it helped when my congressman was Dornan, but I tried...) But the only times I voted for a Republican in a general election were when Jerry Brown was running for governor in California. Bear: These days (though not in Snow's) being a manic-depressive, or at least exhibiting the symptoms, _is_ largely a matter of choice; they have medications that level things out. Unfortunately, they have to take the medications, even though it's a constant temptation not to. I have a nephew who's bipolar and who's fine when he takes his meds, but he periodically goes off them, and goes wild as a result. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:02:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 Barbara DeJohn: That's okay; I've been a member since '86 myself and I've not attended a Convention yet either. :-( Tyler: My favorite Oz book would have to be Emerald City, mainly since Dorothy and her family got to Oz to stay (I'm a long-time Dorothy fan; sorry, Chris). As to SF vs fantasy, I take the opposite standpoint; I think the average fantasy is far superior to the bulk of SF--although I'd consider the Oz books or Tolkein's books about on a par with the Foundation series, say. You say the Cowardly Lion is involved in far fewer plots than the other "Fab Four". True; but his major problem is mentioned in a famous nursery rhyme--Little Miss Muffet, "eating her courage and whey". (Sorry) Robin, re "harder to access AOL": You're telling me! Favorite RPT book: I've not read them all (GUILT GUILT GUILT!!), but I do think that if she'd handled it a bit differently, Lost King could easily have become my favorite of hers, if not of the whole series. Speaking of series: Bob S. asked what the plural was of the word series--the plural is, simply, se ries. David Hulan: Your name could be sung to the same tune--a little mixup, I imagine. Anyway--Until my next message, KIEX and Jeremy, partners in . . . something . . . Ozzing? . . . bye! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:18:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 This is just a short note to let you know tht I have survived the long trek to California by Amtrack. I rode in four trains and all of them were late, but that did not realy make much difference, it is a wonderful way to see the country (It is hard to enjoy the scenery when you are driving and afraid to go off the road--especially while crossing the Rockies). I greatly enjoyed the Winkie Convention. The restaurant David Hulan referred to is Cibo's--I didn't dine there but met Robin Hess outside the restaurant, and he expected that I would (maybe I will at my next Winkie Convention, but I only get to them every few years--1989, 1993, 1997). My favorite Thompson book now is Wishing Horse. Not only is it low in IEs, but the villains are not punished severlly as they are in many of Thompson's books, but are improved instead. I rapidly read through many digests but cannot reply to them. At present I am not able to use my office computer, and so I am limited to ELM, a very archaic mailing system. Perhaps tomorrrow I shall get back to Netscape. Oh yes, when I was young I loved KABUMPO and PURPLE PRINCE about all other Thompsons. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 15:11:56 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Ruth wrote: >It seems surprising that you say people could be be >subscribing to the Ozzy Digest and you wouldn't know they were. You >mean they could subscribe under pseudonyms? Many of them have cryptic E-mails (especially the Compuservers!), and don't identify themselves by name when they subscribe...Therefore, I have no idea who they are... >Was the "Large message has been converted into an >attachment" ATT1 something we were supposed to receive as part of the >Digest? I don't think I received it Actually, I didn't either... David Hulan wrote: >If you send back MSS to authors who enclosed postage (I don't think any >of the serious entries could go in an _envelope_) before the final >decision is made, doesn't that contradict your statement that you can't >tell anyone that their MS didn't make it to the finals? If they ever said that they would return MSS to authors before the final decision is made, I must have missed it... (BTW, I forgot to enclose return postage...Where should I send it?) >I can, however, tell you that the plural of "series" is "series"; it's a >5th declension Latin word (like "species"), and the nominative plural in >that declension is the same as the nominative singular... Yes, one species is *not* a "specy"! Also one human being is a _Homo sapiens_, not a "_Homo sapien_"! >Voting in the Republican primary doesn't make you a Republican... Good point: States which don't have open primaries (I think California *does* starting with the next election cycle) force one to register in another party if they wish to oust certain people they *really* don't like... Jeremy and/or Kiex wrote: >Robin, re "harder to access AOL": >You're telling me! BTW, you know I "test drove" AOL last month and I was not moved to change ISP's...And do you know, I tried to make my user name "JelliaJamb" (so she could use the account) but that name was taken! ( Should I E-mail this person and ask them, "Say, have you heard of the Ozzy Digest?" :) ) Final question: Can someone who went to Winkies give me an estimate of the costs so that I can determine if my going next year is *TOTALLY, UTTERLY* out of the question... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 18, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:08:53 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Oz searches and oz paraphenalia.... Uncharacteristically replying to the mose recent Ozzy Digest (I still have comments dating back to 6/21 I want to voice): Yes, "Sarah" appears in Wizard of Oz more than 9000 times (all the letters are very common, you see). I don't have the other books readily avialable in a format to check them (it would take time to download, convert the format, plus the necessary storage space on my hard disk which is right now at a premium). There are two places where the lettrs are found only 4 places apart!: /So the Woodman took his axe and began to chop down small trees to make a raft, and while he was busy at this the Scarecrow found on the riverbank a tree full of fine fruit./ (start with the 's' in trees, going forward) and / It makes most people unhappy. If you only knew it, you are in luck not to have a heart." "That must be a matter of opinion," said the Tin Woodman./ (start with the 's' in 'that must' and count backwards) And yes, Scott O., I do use a computer. The above search took less than a minute (because I limited the distance. To find all ~9700 occurences would take several hours) To all those who have an interest in MGM WOZ paraphenalia, I mentioned several months ago about a store supply catalog that had lifesize cardboard cutouts of the WWW, Dorothy/Lion, and Wizard/Tinman/Scarecrow. I finally have the dang thing in hand. The phone number to order is 1-800-823-8887 ($21.95 for one, 19.95 ea. for 2 or more). The item numbers are 10-220, 10-217, and 10-218 respectively. (mention 'catalog 25') The company is Store Supply Warehouse, Inc. I make no claims about how reliable they are, etc. I just happned to receive their catalog in the mail. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:56:43 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Barbara - I'll meet you at Winkies next year. That is my target too. Regarding your advice to the lovelorn. Please indicate how one tells the difference between women and girls and who is a Brad Pitt admirer, from the outside. I will pass it along to my son who is 35 and in the market as well. My generation just got out of college and got into the marriage game. Our theory was it was better to be involved in the game and learning than on the outside watching. The current generation seems to be a bunch of watchers, unwilling to take any risks. I have been married twice and although I did a better job in some senses the second time, I have no regrets. I like being married. Speaking of non-Oz books, Philip Pullman's sequel is out now. It is "The Subtle Knife." It is on the top of my stack as soon as I finish Tad Williams Volume 3. He wrote "The Golden Compass" which was excellent. The cover tells you this is a book for cat lovers. Tyler - It appears you haven't read much fantasy if you can say: >IMHO, the best sci-fi is better than the best fantasy, but so much of sci-fi is lame and not worth the bother. If you would like some guidance in the fantasy area from old Bear, I would be glad to oblige. I read most of the available sci fi in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. However, in the 70's the genre seemed to run out of steam and I mostly graduated to fantasy. I sample the sci fi headliners now and then but can find much better fantasy to read normally. Do you take Locus? They are helpful. Merry Go Round In Oz???? I have a mint BOW copy dated 1963 that I have never read. Surely those aren't going for $600? Was there a R&L version? Ahh, thank you Scott. I just needed to read further. Aren't BOW editions, at a reasonable price still available? Barb - After a short search it was found that the article has vanished from sight and mind. Sorry. I went back to check my post, of June 15th: The July issue of Esquire has a piece titled "The Lunatics Are On The Web It goes through the "Oz allegory" theory and then covers the "Pink Floyd Connection." It must have been the July issue. It was a short article, early in the issue. If I find it I will send you the page number. Tina - Congratulations. Is your thesis in Italian? Where is it available? David - Thanks for the great report. Sorry to have to miss it. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:30:46 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Wow! Digests are flying. I just sent one out and another arrives. David >These days (though not in Snow's) being a manic-depressive, or at least exhibiting the symptoms, _is_ largely a matter of choice; they have medications that level things out. I wish this was true. If you really want to delve into this you will find that some medications may help some people for some time. I know bipolars who have tried a number of medications with limited success. Some people are depressed for years without ever seeking phychiatric aid. Depression is a serious condition and often very difficult to alleviate. Many of the medications have mild to serious side effects which also have to be considered. Someday I imagine we will have a magic pill for every ill. We aren't there yet. Back to Oz, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:39:11 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 Scott O.: What kind of details do you want about the auction? I was there for the whole thing, but other than marveling at the prices people were willing to pay for tbings that didn't seem that interesting to me (I mean, $35-40 for 1960ish R&L Baums in DJs that aren't by Neill?), I wasn't paying really careful attention. I'd guess that overall it grossed around $10,000, give or take a couple of thou, though how much of that was net to the IWOC I haven't a clue. There weren't any really Super items that went in the $1000 give or take a bit range that I've seen sometimes, but a few went for $500 or so, and quite a lot went in the multiple hundreds. Tyler: I've repeated that information about when books go PD more than most on the Digest, maybe, but don't attribute it to me; I'm quoting Peter Hanff, who ought to know. I'm no authority myself. Nate: I'm a mild Floyd fan in addition to being a fanatical Oz fan (but am only about as interested in the MGM movie as I am in Floyd). However, I'll admit that I don't have the Floyd album that's supposed to work as a soundtrack to the movie. (I said I was a _mild_ fan - I have their first two albums, actually.) Ruth: No, the days didn't seem lank and long, but then I was only _playing_ Ruggedo; his (or Gama's) personality isn't too much like mine - or only sometimes... Jeremy: I don't make a really strong distinction between fantasy and SF - there are too many books that could be called either one, depending on how you look at it. Obviously something like the Aldrin-Barnes ENCOUNTER WITH TIBER is SF, and Tolkien is fantasy, but what's something like Harry Turtledove's WORLDWAR books? Is alternate history SF or fantasy? What about Burroughs' Barsoom books? I know that I group them all into an "SF" category in the catalog of my books that I keep on my computer. (I have separate categories for children's books and Oz, though. This is mainly because I keep those books in separate bookcases.) True that "Da-vid Hu-lan" could be sung to the same tune as "Her-man Bie-ber". But they didn't... Steve: Cibo's. Right. Thanks. So, if you keep up your current pattern, your next attendance at Winkies will be in...2001! (A Space Ozzidy) Dave: In the 7/16 Digest Robin said: >I'm trying to reach John Fricke to determine which >MSS need to be sent back to their authors. We'll return those which >arrived with a SASE. Maybe she just meant that they'd send them back after the final decision was made, but "I'm trying" implies that at least one attempt has already been made, and why try to get hold of Fricke now if the returns won't happen until around the end of the year? Maybe I over-extrapolated, but it sounded as if there was at least some consideration being given to sending back unsuccessful MSS before the final decision. Illinois doesn't have a truly "open primary" - that is, you can't vote for candidates for one party for one office and the other for another - but you don't have to register for either party as you had to in California when I lived there. You just request whichever party's ballot you want to vote in when you get to the polls. I say you should definitely E-mail JelliaJamb@aol.com and tell her (or maybe him) about the Ozzy Digest. Anyone who knows about Jellia is obviously One Of Us. (If you don't want to, say so and I will.) Estimate of Winkie costs: If you only go for the conference proper (starting around 3:00 Friday through lunch Sunday), and can get a roommate (which usually isn't too tough; Peter H. will match you up if you don't know someone to room with), it would have cost you $170 plus whatever traveling expenses you had. (And, of course, whatever you chose to spend at the auction or dealers' room, but those are discretionary expenses.) If you have a car you're looking at probably a 6-7 hour drive each way from Huntington Beach (because you have to get through LA). You might be able to get a ride from some of the people who come up from further south; you could check around at South Winkies for that. You'll either need to figure on a meal along the way or bring a lunch with you. If you want to come up for the pre-conference Thursday night (which is a lot of fun, but not necessary) it'll cost you another $100 or so for a room at the Butterfly Grove Inn and dinner at Cibo's, but you could probably cut that in half with a roommate and eating pizza with those who don't go to Cibo's - which included quite a few people this year. If you can't find your own roommate and you're not willing to take pot-luck, then you'll have to pay $250 for a single for the con proper. That's a good bit of difference if you're on a tight budget; I recommend you find a compatible roommate. (It's only two nights, after all, and you don't do much in your room but sleep.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:05:22 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 I'm sorry to say that it looks like I *won't* be attending the Munchkin Convention after all. I had already determined that I would only go to the Saturday session because of time and money constraints. Unfortunately, the two items I am most interested in are on different days: the film on Friday and the auction on Saturday. If only they could both be on Saturday. I'm not terribly interested in the quiz or costume contest on Saturday, which leaves me with the auction. To make it worth my while, I figure I'd have to spend at least $500 at the auction. With my first baby due in early September, that's just not practical. Of course, another huge benefit of attending would be getting to meet those of you who are going and other Oz fans. I am truly sorry that I will have to postpone our meeting in person until summer 1998. I hope you'll understand. Reluctantly, Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:09:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Scott: Does anyone recall this piece of ozian craft being sold several years ago? Tin wall sculpture of Dorothy, Scarecrow, Tin Woodman and Cowardly Lion (based more on Neill than MGM). Large (~3 feet long?) and painted. If so, any idea what it might be worth? ****** I think I know what sculpture you are talking about. I have seen this item for sale in a couple catalogs selling "Oz" merchandise [which I still have since I keep all of my catalogs]. I saw it once for sale in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand. And, believe it or not, I was in Sausilito, CA a few weeks ago and it was for sale in a giftshop there! The price range I've seen on this usually averages between $200-$400. If you're asking about appreciation value, I doubt if it has gone up that much because it isn't that old yet. I first saw it about 2-3 years ago. ****** Anyone: Does anyone know if there are foreign language videos, with English subtitles, of MGM's "The Wizard of Oz" available? I am interested in obtaining ones in French and Russian. Thanks to anyone who has information! Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:36:08 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 David Hulan et.al., Thanks for your explanations regarding the plural of "series". I don't know why, but I just drew a complete blank when I was composing that message. David, I've just sent you a private message about your political statement. I really didn't want to open another political discussion so soon after the previous ones. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:34:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 David: I assume that the MSS with SASEs will be returned only after a final selection has been made by Eloise and Rachel, so that won't contradict what I said about not revealing anything. I just need to know whose are being returned so that I can dispose of the others. I won't be sending any back, in any case, since I'll send the relevant MSS to John Fricke for mailing. I'm SO glad I'm not responsible for returning them to their authors; I hate mailing things. E-mail was made for folks like me. Dave: My best guess is that you should send SASE and postage to John Fricke, but it may be too late for that. Dunno. I just know Steve, Barb, and I don't have to worry about it. It really may be too late, since I'm pretty sure we've closed the p.o. box. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:40:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz request: burial (fwd) Got this note in my inbox while I was out of town for Winkies (where, I might add, we have GOT to get Dave to some time!). If anybody knows where Maggie is buried, please e-mail WHITTIMD directly. Thanks. --Eric Gjovaag updated ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ^ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:51:19 -0400 (EDT) From: WHITTIMD@aol.com Subject: burial Trying to find out where Margaret Hamilton is buried. would appreciate any information. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:42:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Wizard of Oz books (fwd) Well, I think you are all what he's looking for... --Eric ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:18:21 -0700 From: Lee Subject: Wizard of Oz books Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-From: Laura Gjovaag Resent-To: Eric Gjovaag Hello. My name is Lee. I am a teacher in the Los Angeles area. I have eleven old Oz books that have been in my family since before WWII. They have been in storage for twenty years. When last used, some of them received amature spinal repairs. Overall, though, the partial set has its attraction. I am seeking to sell them at a fair price (they are certainly not in excellent condition) to an Oz fan/collector, rather than a bibliophile or vendor. If you know of anyone in search of this type of item, please send them to my website addition which I put together to share the collection more easily. The eleven photos there are worth the visit! http://www.smartlink.net/~yesman/oz.html These are cloth cover books each with a colorful paper illustration on the front cover. The Waddle Book is the only book with color illustrations. Waddles not included. : ( Thank you, Lee ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:30:59 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 Scott: A brief auction report: as I said, the prices were quite reasonable. I did not record everything (though some people did, including Herm, I think). I can only tell you about the six books my friend Leslie and I bought: (1) 1950's edition of Father Goose, near fine in DJ $40 (2) 1st edition of Emerald City, about Good+ $160 (3) 1st Edition of Magical Mimics in 1st edition DJ $200 (4) Silver Princess 1st, near Fine $140 (5) Fine Purple Prince b&w reprint $50 (6) 2nd edition of Dotwiz with 16 plates $25 - the deal of the day! As you can see, the prices were quite fair, and as I am fond of saying, the Oz Club and its members are still the best place to get good, reasonably price books (at least in my opinion). Also, I may have found a better deal on a copy of Merry Go Round. We'll see if my offer is accepted. Joel Harris ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:58:48 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: For the OZ digest Thanks all for your analyses on the role of the Cowardly Lion in the OZ books! ----- My next question deals with Tik-Tok. Does he have any major role in any of the books after Tik-Tok of Oz? ----- David Hulan and others: I live in Southern California and BORDERS BOOKS and MUSIC carries lots of Oz books including Emerald City Press publications. This very night, I saw lots of them including David's book. Just thought I'd give it a mention in case someone out there didn't know. They have about 8 stores in Southern California and I know they have some in Florida. Other than that, I'm not sure where they are located. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:23:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark K DeJohn <103330.323@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 From: Barbara DeJohn Hi fellow Oz-lovers !!! I am hoping to plan a vacation for my family around the convention and I think Winkies would be great for that. Delaware and where the Ozmopolitan Con are aren't as exciting. Is the Ozmopolitan Con very far from Chicago? My husband does have a cousin near San Diego. How far is that from Asilomar? I am disappointed that the con in 2000 is not going to be at the hotel Del Coranado. I figured that we could afford one night there and then move to Mark's cousins. I was at Three Rivers Stadium last night for a Pirate game and did not see a Terry Brad- shaw shrine. (sorry Tyler) They do have a great statue of Roberto Clemente and an ok one of Art Rooney(former owner of the Steelers). From what I've heard, Terry Bradshaw said some not-so-nice things about Pittsburgh when he left, so I doubt a shrine will be built any time soon. Maybe when he dies. My favorite Thompson Oz books are Giant Horse, Kabumpo and Purple Prince. I also liked Speedy and Silver Princess. Jinnicky is one of my favorite characters. Purple Prince was the only RPT book that I had for a long long time. All of the others I read as an adult. Ozzily yours, Barbara DeJohn ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:50:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 Cc: steller@mail.pittstate.edu (Stephen J. Teller) Scott asked about the Winkie auction. I cannot give a detailed report (Patrick or Robin could) but I bought only one item. Early in the auction Patrick presented a 1st edition, 2nd state of MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO with the title page missing, and asked if anyone would bid 32 lousy dollars. I bi, "Thirty-two lousy dollars!" and no one else bid at all, so I got the book at bargain basement price. Everything else I bid on went above my budget. Earl Abbe mentioned the videotape of DOTWIZ that was illustrated with watercolors by Rob Roy MacVeigh. Rob had originally been asked to do some illustrations to go with a playing of the old 78 rpm recording of DOTWIZ that came out about 1948 for a Winkie Convention (1993 I believe). This was later shown at the Ozmoploitan Convention in 1994. IWOC had a videotape made that combined the recording with Rob's illustrations, and this was sold (as far as I know) only at IWOC conventions. David Hulan wondered about the sending back of submitted MSS for the Centenniel book contest. No MSS will be returned *before* the final decision is made, which should be later this year, bit *only* those MSS for which return postage had been provided would be returned to the senders. Dave asked about the total costs of the Winkie Convention. That entirely depends on you. The convention cost includes lodging, six meals, and the convention events. Transportation costs differ from person to person (mine were over $600 because they included Amtrak fares for three persons), other costs would be auction purchases, other purchases made at the dealers' room, and pre- or post- convention events. These were spelled out in the material supplied. If you don't but anything or have travel costs, the price listed is what you pay. It looks as if I will be separated from my own compuuter until mid-August at least, so I am stuck with ELM. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:03:33 +0100 From: "L. Beltz/M. Krueger" Subject: Ozzy Digest Having finally taken care of the pressing matters at work I can now respond to the digest. Robin O., Thank you for your extremely kind words - I blush just thinking about them. You and Langley put on one heck of a conference. By the way you have got to have one of the coolest AOL names I've ever read! David Hulan, Your Winkies report was thoroughly enjoyable and I must confess that it was I who originally misidentified you. We saw the top of a scholarly head behind a car and Robin said "Is that Herm?" and I, without taking a second look, said "I think so." The rest is history. You know, I think Aunt Em went and got some speech coaching from the Rigmaroles after she visited Miss Cuttenclip to enlist her aid in the "Emerald City Homemakers Institute." At least she didn't get advice from the Flutterbudgets as well. Joel, I'll pass on your kind comments about the Children's Auction to Eric. Believe it or not this was one of our saner years! Thank you for the wonderful contributions that you made to it as well. Lynn Beltz ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:06:44 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-14-97 Some recent digest observations: Re: "It just struck me as interesting that people who grew up on the >_Oz_ books seem to have similar tastes in other readings....I think you can count on subscribers to this digest having a taste for SF and fantasy literature." True, but I've found the quality in fantasy and SF to be very uneven--to the point of almost turning me off. Lately what little reading I've done has been biographies. Re: Sarah wrote "This is a really strange question but...I read somewhere that a Baum quote from the intro of Lost Princess is on a Celestial Seasonings tea box. Does anyone know which flavor this is? I've seen the quote but I don't remember the flavor. It's been 5-6 years ago, though, so maybe it's not there anymore... Re: Scott's "Baum declared _The Scarecrow of Oz_ his best book ever." And David's "I've heard he thought _Sky Island_ was his best book." From what I understand, Baum considered _Sky Island_ his best book, and _Scarecrow_ his best Oz book. Re: David's "I have a copy of _Merry-Go-Round_ from R&L, bought new. According to Bib Oz this is a first edition, but apparently some of the earliest copies >were distributed with a dust jacket, even though the binding was the >"white cloth" type that were usually distributed without DJ. Mine never >had a DJ..." I bought my copy of _Merry Go Round_ from Reilly & Lee (for $3.95) circa 1970. It came with a dust jacket. Re: Dave's comment re: _Oz_ program that "Apparently, it's about a >rehabilitiation prison called "The Emerald City" ... Once again, our Oz >is maligned..." Well, I suppose that's what happens when your favorite fictional country's name becomes a household word... Can someone please report on what happened at the Winkie auction! Thanks! Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 14:15:08 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Jellia asked me to ask if there is anywhere in _Wizard_ that the letters J-E-L-L-I-A-J-A-M-B show up...She says that would really be weird if they did, since her name isn't mentioned in the actual text... Bear wrote: >Regarding your advice to the lovelorn. Please indicate how one tells the >difference between women and girls... The women don't like punk rock, don't say "dude" and "cool" interminably, and don't flatter themselves that just because they were in one play in high school that that makes them Cornelia Otis Skinner! And in my own personal lack of good fortune, the women are always already married! > ... and who is a Brad Pitt admirer... It usually comes out on the first or second date... >The current generation seems to be a bunch of watchers, unwilling to >take any risks. The above info. comes from my own personal "risk-taking"... Douglas or Lori Silfen wrote: >David Hulan and others: I live in Southern California and BORDERS >BOOKS and MUSIC carries lots of Oz books including Emerald City Press >publications. This very night, I saw lots of them including David's >book. Just thought I'd give it a mention in case someone out there >didn't know. Out of curiosity, what store was this? The one in Mission Viejo is the one I frequent... :) Steve T. wrote: >[But] *only* those MSS for which return postage had been provided would >be returned to the senders. *Had* been provided?? Do I take it from that past tense that it is too late to send the postage? Thanks to David Hulan et. al. for the info on expenses for Winkies! I'm going to try very hard to make it next year! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 19, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:38:52 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz reply regarding Borders Douglas or Lori Silfen wrote: >David Hulan and others: I live in Southern California and BORDERS >BOOKS and MUSIC carries lots of Oz books including Emerald City Press >publications. This very night, I saw lots of them including David's >book. Just thought I'd give it a mention in case someone out there >didn't know. Out of curiosity, what store was this? The one in Mission Viejo is the one I frequent... :) Dave, The only I am referring to is the one on Carmel Mountain Road in (northern) San Diego near Rancho Bernardo. I have seen another very good selection up at Los Alamedos (sp?) Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:46:40 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-97 Bear: If we both make it to Winkies next year, as we both intend, it will be great to finally meet you in person. I don't think it's too hard to tell a girl from a woman, after knowing the individual for a short while. I too married fairly young the first time, and an even younger wife - and I don't regret it seriously, since it brought me my daughter Rachel, who's the second most important person in the world to me. But I know I made a better choice the second time round, even though Marcia wasn't all that much older in years (two, to be specific) when I married her than Kathy was when I married her. There was a tremendous difference in maturity - and there still is, even though Kathy is ten years older than Marcia. (And if you want a real assessment of the two, you ought to talk to Rachel...) It's the R&L edition of MERRY-GO-ROUND that seems to be so valuable now. The BoW edition is still in print and presumably isn't worth any more than the $24.95 that you can still buy it for. Though I don't see the difference, myself. All I really know about bipolar disorder is what I've heard about my nephew, plus what some acquaintances of my wife's with the condition have told her. The meds seem to work for most of them as long as they take them, and the only real side effect they've objected to is that taking the meds is a lot like not taking a snort of coke when it's available. But I haven't really researched the question, and maybe for a significant fraction of the bipolar population, there isn't any good medical treatment. Robin: Ah, I see. I just misinterpreted your remark, for reasons I explained in my last post. If your point was to know which MSS you could throw away, it explains everything. Douglas: Tik-Tok doesn't have a major role in any of the FF after TIK-TOK OF OZ, though he turns up as a minor character in several. As for the non-FF books, he hasn't had a major role in any that I've read, but there are quite a few more that I haven't read than that I have. (He's the lead character in the installment of the serial in the EMERALD CITY MIRROR that will appear in August or September, but that's not a "book".) Borders carries most of the ECP books and other BoW publications. I just hope they sell enough of them to make them keep carrying them. Barbara: The locale for the Ozmopolitan Convention is really quite scenic, comparable to Asilomar in that respect. It's on a lake in a rural area of Wisconsin about 2 hours' drive from Chicago. It's more expensive than Winkies if you just look at convention costs, but depending on where you start from it can be less expensive overall. (Even though I'm Registrar of Ozmopolitan, though, I'd have to say that if you can work it out where it's economically feasible, I'd recommend going to Winkies. But the difference isn't so great that I'd recommend saving up for a year or two to go to Winkies rather than going to Ozmopolitan immediately.) San Diego is a long way from Asilomar. Not quite, but almost, as far as Pittsburgh is from Ozmopolitan. Do _not_ plan on combining visits to the two places unless you're planning a plane flight between them. (It's around a 9-10 hour drive from SD to Asilomar, which is near Monterey.) Steve: I almost bid against you on that MO, but decided that you'd probably go higher than I'd care to, and so why drive up the price on a fellow Digester? I have a Dover edition rebound for a library that's quite adequate for my purposes. Dave: Hope to see you next year at Winkies! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:51:24 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline Michael - Obviously you don't work for NSA or you would know that you do not have to conceal your association. However, you must be a crypy at heart to have it matter that these words are found in the book texts. (You must have enjoyed Poe's poetry. They weren't so well hidden there.) You could probably even find the name "Nostrodamus" in there someplace if you looked. Well, I guess whatever turns you on, but I don't get the motivation? Barb, get out your California map and find San Francisco. Go south to Monterey. Asilomar is adjacent at Pacific Grove. A long way from San Diego. Is that true that Winkies will be on Coronado Island next year? That is "near" San Diego. Dave - You just have to quit hitting on those "Valley Girls," and find a "good woman." You can't convince me there aren't any out there. Anyway, good luck, the hunt can't be without it's charms. :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 02:09:49 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-97 Sorry for what may have appeared to be double posting in yesterday's digest. I sent that e-mail Monday and it never showed up, then I sent almost the same message Wednesday or Thursday. I recently purchased a couple of the Jean Kellogg adaptations (_Land_ and _Ozma_) published by Reilly & Lee (circa 1961) and illustrated by Dick Martin. They're both signed by Martin to "Alla", who, I imagine, is Alla T. Ford. It got me to thinking. I guess we never really "own" our books--we merely have them until the time comes when they must be passed on to someone else. Re: Bear not having read _Merry-Go-Round_ You really should. Re: _Merry-Go-Round_ 1st edition prices Geez, I kinda wish I'd bought more copies when I had the chance. (I did, however, buy a copy of _Who's Who in Oz_ from Reilly & Lee in 1968 for $1.50.) Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:23:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 Gee, I just got caught up and now I'm off again...this time to Toronto and Quebec. Back next Sat. night. Wish me luck in finding Copp Clark Oz books! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:46:33 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-disposition: inline Earl: I've often thought of using Kabumpo as a symbol for "our" group, although he would not have much recognition value. I'd suggest Hank for the opposition, but Hank is mule. By the way, does anybody know if there is a difference between a mule and a donkey, and if so, what it is? Ruth: It is posible that people could have internet accounts that give no clue as to their name, and then use an alias once on. Who knows who might be lurking... David: I've scanned my memory and can't come up with any instances of rain in Oz in the Baum 14 Illos: The one thing about Dick Martin's drawings that is a little unusual is the fact that Dorothy comes off looking like a plastic Barbie doll. Dave: There's a JelliaJamb@aol.com? Interesting. By all means, I'd recommend mailing that person and finding out. Of course, there is a play called "Jelly's last Jam", which has nothing to do with Oz, though the spelling is the same. Bear: I've read an average amount of fantasy, but I've been reducing my load in recent years. David: POint taken. I'd guess that Peter Hanff, Peter Glassman and Chris Dulabone are the three best copyright experts. (I hope I didn't leave anyone out) Barbara: Well, the city itself is not what my focus is on, so I'll forgive Terry, as long as he doesn;t dis Newport Beach! Baum: In light of this discussion about which book Baum considered to be his best, IMHO his best of all time is "Queen Zixi of Ix", from which we get the magic number 47. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 10:47:19 -0500 (CDT) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-97 In response to Richard Bauman's query, yes, Books of Wonder does indeed still have reasonably priced copies of "Merry Go Round in Oz" available, as well as many other Baum and Oz classics. They are available at all Borders Book shops as well as many fine independent bookstores, including The Tattered Cover in Denver, CO; Powell's in Portland, OR; Moe's in Berkley, CA; The Stars My Destination in Chicago, IL; and many others. Here is a listing: By L. Frank Baum: The Sea Faires (hc $24.95 / pb $12.95) Sky Island (hc $24.95 / pb $12.95) The Enchanted Island of Yew (pb $12.95) The Master Key (pb $11.95) Dot and Tot of Merryland (pb $11.95) By Ruth Plumly Thompson Royal Book of Oz (hc with 12 color plates $22.95) Captain Salt in Oz (pb $12.95) Handy Mandy in Oz (pb $12.95) Silver Princess in Oz (pb $12.95) Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz (pb $12.95) By John R. Neill The Wonder City of Oz (hc $24.95 / pb $12.95) The Scalawagons of Oz (hc $24.95) Lucky Bucky in Oz (hc $24.95) The Runaway in Oz (hc $24.95, illus. by Eric Shanower) By Jack Snow The Magical Mimics in Oz (pb $12.95) The Shaggy Man of Oz (pb $12.95) By Eloise Jarvis McGraw and Lauren McGraw Merry Go Round in Oz (hc $24.95 / pb $12.95) In addition, we also co-publish with William Morrow and Co., Inc. the L. Frank Baum Oz books, all with all their original color and b&w illustrations. Currently available are: The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (hc $22.00) The Marvelous Land of Oz (hc $22.00) Ozma of Oz (hc $22.00) Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (hc $20.00) The Road to Oz (hc $16.95) The Emerald City of Oz (hc $20.00) The Patchwork Girl of Oz (hc $20.00) Tik-Tok of Oz (hc $22.00) The Scarecrow of Oz (hc $22.00) The Little Wizard Stories of Oz (hc $20.00) The remaining Baum Oz books will all be published over the next three years. If your local bookstore or library doesn't have these titles, tell them that ALL of them may be ordered from William Morrow and Company as of August 1, 1997. That's right, as of August 1, 1997 ALL of Books of Wonder's books, both those co-published with Morrow and those published independently, will be sold and distributed by Morrow. This will make sure that all bookstores and libraries in both the United States and Canada have easy access to these books. Now there's no excuse for your local bookstore not to carry these books - so get out there and tell them to stock the Oz books! And if you still can't obtain these through your bookstore or library, you may order them through Books of Wonder. To get a catalog, just call us toll-free at (800) 207-6968 between the hours of 9am and 6pm (NY time) Monday through Friday. - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 13:20:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 The 17th-- Dave: You could have tried "JJamb" or something--but it's of no importance, since you made the logical choice not to choose AOL. The 18th-- Re J-E-L-L-I-A-J-A-M-B: So, what were your results on the word search, Dave? In general, as I'm sure you all know, I do not confine all my comments to one person, but . . . Kiex and Jellia made me! (A conspiracy, I fear.) Anyway-- Jeremy Steadman, KIEX presiding ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:51:11 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Warner BrOz. Sender: BARLOW NATE I'm not sure if this has been pointed out before (I haven't been able to read the digest closely lately), but while in a local mall to pick up convention supplies, I saw that the Warner Brothers store was selling MGM Oz items. >And in my own personal lack of good fortune, the women are always already >married! I can relate to that one! Nate ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:46:40 -0400 From: Scott Piehler Subject: Help with living Apple Trees Having a bit of a brain-blank here. The apple trees that Dorothy & Co. encounter in the MGM film-are they strictly a movie creation? I haven't read Wizard in a while, and couldn't remember where the trees were. Anyhow, what I really wanted to know: Where (ge-oz-graphically speaking) are these trees located? Do they have a name? I'm currently making up a batch of apple wine from the apples on a tree in my yard. As I was picking them,I kept thinking: *How would you like it if somebody picked something off you?* I'm looking to give the finished product a name, and I thought a nice Ozzy apple reference would be fitting. Scott Scott Piehler Atlanta, GA USA http://www.mindspring.com/~rosco29/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Jul 97 12:34:07 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Bear wrote: >Is that true that Winkies will be on Coronado Island next year? >That is "near" San Diego. According to my map, it's right next door! Now *that* I could handle! Although if they *are* changing the location, it's total news to me...And in a way I'd think I might rather have the convention be in its regular place because I'd *like* an excuse to go up to beautiful Monterey! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 20, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 16:31:46 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-97 Douglas: I think that all Borders stores carry the full line of Books of Wonder Oz books (unless a particular item happens to have sold out temporarily). Every one I've checked has, including ones in Naperville, Oakbrook, Chicago, and Cincinnati. Bear: I'm sure that Mike T. has a computer program that does all the searching for him; all he has to do is input the string and define the text to search, and the computer does the rest. It doesn't require any real work. >Is that true that Winkies will be on Coronado Island next year? No, Winkies will be at Asilomar next year, and probably for the indefinite future as long as Asilomar remains available. It's a fairly convenient location, within feasible one-day driving distance of anywhere in California and two-day for the Pacific Northwest people, or the San Jose airport is easily reached from almost anywhere in the country and is only an hour and a half away. San Diego is much less convenient for all but Southern Californians. What you may be thinking about is the possibility that in 2000 all three of the major Oz conventions will be combined, and at one time it was suggested that it be held at the Hotel Del Coronado, since Baum spent quite a bit of time there. But the costs for that proved to be excessive; the current Plan A is to have the unified convention in 2000, at a conference center associated with Indiana University, if the details can be worked out satisfactorily, with Plan B being to hold the individual conventions as usual but with a unified Centennial theme. Tyler: Baum called Hank both a mule and a donkey, but they're not the same. A donkey is a member of the species Equus asinus. A mule is the hybrid offspring of a male donkey and a female horse (Equus caballus); the two species are closely enough related to produce hybrid offspring, but not closely enough for the offspring to be fertile. The offspring of a male horse and a female donkey is called a "hinny", and popular wisdom holds that it is far inferior in strength and endurance to the mule. I have no idea whether there's any scientific basis for this, though since donkeys are considerably smaller than the draft horses that are generally used for breeding mules (why breed a mule, which is primarily used as a draft animal, from a small breed of horse or pony?) it could be that it's a result of the developing foal being too crowded in the womb of the female donkey (or jenny) so that it doesn't develop as well. This is the sort of stuff I picked up from listening to my grandfather talk; I've never read much about animal breeding. Incidentally, since Hank is always referred to as "little," and is certainly drawn more pony-size than horse-size, it seems not improbable that in fact he was a donkey and not a mule. Mules are generally fairly large animals - unless Hank was a mistake. I don't think Martin's Dorothy looks like a plastic Barbie doll. Wrong shape entirely! Like Barbie's little sister - Skipper, I think her name was - maybe. ZIXI is one of my favorite Baums, too, but I'd rank it behind SKY ISLAND and LOST PRINCESS, and maybe RINKITINK. Still, it's very good. (Once Zixi herself comes on the scene it's excellent, but that's close to halfway through the book, and all the silly adventures with the Magic Cloak, while fun in their way, are more reminiscent of THE MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO than of Baum's more integrated books.) Peter G.: Anderson's Books in Naperville, our very good local independent, carries most of the BoW/Morrow Baum reprints but none of the rest of the BoW books. When you say Morrow will be selling and distributing _all_ the BoW books, does that mean the Emerald City Press books (like GLASS CAT) as well as the books of the original series that you've reprinted? If so, come August 1 I'll start bugging Anderson's to stock at least my book, since it's a Local Author. Scott P.: There are no apple trees in the book WIZARD, I'm afraid. Apples do appear in several of the Oz books - the Shaggy Man is particularly fond of them, so they're featured in ROAD and TIK-TOK. Apples are also among the fruit Dorothy's party finds growing in the Great Orchard in LOST PRINCESS. And I have the feeling that they may appear in one or more of Thompson's books, though nothing specific comes to mind. If I were wanting to name an apple wine with an Ozzy reference I'd probably use the Shaggy Man, because he's much more associated with apples than any other character. If you want to use a place, the only place in Oz with apple trees that I know of is the Great Orchard, which is just about dead center of the Winkie country. In Oz books, but outside Oz itself, there's an apple tree in the yard of Uncle Henry's farmhouse in ROAD, and one outside the greenhouse in the Rose Kingdom in TIK-TOK. Dave: I think that Coronado Island is in fact within the city limits of San Diego, though I'm not positive about that. But it's irrelevant; the Winkie Conference will _not_ be held there next year. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:18:28 -0400 (EDT) From: KABUMPO16@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-97 I can certainly clear up that donkey/mule question for you. A donkey is male ass. A mule is the offspring of a male ass(donkey) and a mare (horse.) A mule is sterile and therefore not able to reproduce. At our farm, we call them "consultants." ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:44:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-97 Bipolar disorder: There are tons of puns I could make about the medical problem, but I don't think it's particularly appropriate. (If I had it, then I would, but as an outsider, I think it's outside my territory. Why that is, one might wonder, when I make jokes about everything else--well, I do have some ethics, contrary to popular belief.) Robin of Ozmama (Robin O.?) If you see the Lone Ranger, please tell us (in Toronto, I mean). Sorry--I've not lived in that area for so many years, it just feels nice to make a joke about it again... Mules vs. Donkeys: A mule is a cross between a donkey and something else (a horse, I think) and cannot reproduce. (In fact, it doesn't even want to--being stubborn as ... as ... as a mule!!) Scott P., re MGM film apple trees: Unless I'm completely wrong, yes, they are completely a lame MGM adaptation of Baum's trees, which flung people through the air (hard for 1939 film to do, I suppose, but apple-throwing is unOzzy, and running away just because of that is a silly plot device, in my opinion. Oh, by the way, I'm a book purist...). As always, I bid the Digest a fond adieu--until next time. --KIEX (with Jeremy Steadman) Jeremy: ! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:06:08 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest So today we start to discuss ROAD. Okay. The Road to Oz. Well, yeah. Whatever. It isn't that ROAD is actually a bad story, the problem is that it is two stories rammed together. The story of the trek to Oz is actually quite a bit of fun. The story of the festivities that take place once Dorothy gets to the Emerald City is a pure example of a hairdrier book. (a mindless, wish fufillment wallowing in luxury without much point or real purpose. Something to tranquilize you while you're under the drier.) In this sense the Emerald City chapteres seem to have all the awkwardness of the last third of DotWiz, without the side issue of displaying how well or how poorly these aliens fit into the Ozzian ambience. Polychrome is a fairy, she fits in just fine. Button-Bright is too stupid, or too uninmpressionable to do anything but take it all in stride. Ozma had already decided to extend the Shaggy Man an invitation to stay permanently, and Dorothy was only intending to stay for the party anyway. The first segment, however, up to meeting Tik-Tok and Billena, is a pretty good romp. It also sets the pattern which will be used (or overused) in most of the later books. That of having the adventurers travel through a series of eccentric little city states on the way to a set goal. Whether this reflects an update in worldview on Baum's part (the world is now made up of little townships along the roads rather than wilderness or sparsely populated farmlands laid end-to-end for half of forever) I cannot say, but it is not unlikely. There has been a bit of discussion over the dangers inherent in Dorothy having gone off with a nameless tramp to show him the road to Butterfield, but I cannot speak with any authority as to whether this would have been typical behavior for a farm child in 191?. One thing which is becomming noticable is that Dorothy's disposition and general behavior is not improving with extended experience of the Kansas prairies. I do not think that there would have ever been an era wherin it would have been considered good manners for an 11-year-old to tell an adult she would show him the way because he was "too stupid" to follow directions. Even is said adult was a ragged tramp. In fact, Dorothy makes quite a habit of calling people stupid in this book. Admittedly, sometimes she is right. But her bumptious streak shows promise of her growing up to be the sort of person who knows it all, and cannot be told anything which does not agree with it. Perhaps she imigrated to Oz just in time. Toto's long-awaited return, while satisfying to his fans, does not seem to count for much here. Which is probably just as well, since is role in Wizard was mostly to get in Dorothy's way. The new characters, in general, seem, at first glance, to be a little less one-dimentional than the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman and Lion, but in Baum's handling of them it begins to become even more evident that his vision for the series, and probably for his writing in general, was that all characters, of any stated ages, in stories intended for children should THINK like children. With all the absentmindedness and forgetting of relevant details that this may imply. I suspect that this belief was probably held by most of the authors of children's stories of his day. In a way this is good, since the child reader feels comfortably the equal to any character in the story, and the child characters have every chance of trading the leadereship role back and forth with the titular adults, rather than have to just tag along for the ride while the grown-ups run everything to suit themselves. The adult reader can be made rather impatient by this, unfortunately. (But then he wasn't telling the story for THEM!) Again, the somewhat unpleasant note of "all Americans have the right to impose their attitues upon all they meet, because Americans are the natural leaders of the universe" intrudes, but at least this time the natives get a bit of their own back, and the travelers do not seem to like having the tables turned on them. And even if these "foreign influences" are eventually thrown off, they do manage to produce an inconvenient, if trivial entanglement for their durration. The object lession of whether one side or the other is right to try to make anyone encountered just like oneself is not dwelt upon, or made particularly clear, however. Obviously Baum was not thinking along those lines when he wrote it. The figure of Johnny DoIt is an interesting one of yankee ingenuity personified, and it is mildly disapointing, given Baum's patriotism, that he never returns. But then, perhaps Oz is supposed to be sufficiently perfeted as to not need such ingenious assistance. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 97 15:02:05 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Some things I forgot to say yesterday: -- I think the MGM Apple Trees come from the "Fighting Trees", but the MGM ones are much more Sid-and-Marty-Kroft-esque than Baumian... -- The Brea Borders (south of Whittier) did not carry *any* Oz books when I was there -- Which, admittedly, was almost a year ago, so the situation may have changed. (As I said, the Mission Viejo Borders has *tons* of BoW/ECP Oz books!) -- Barnes and Noble (at least my local one in Fashion Island, Newport Beach) now carries the Books of Wonder reprints of the Baum books, though still not any of the Emerald City Press books... I got a reply from AOL's mail server regarding my message to "Jellia". It said: "The mail you sent could not be delivered to: 550 jelliajamb@aol.com will not accept this message from you" Maybe you AOLers can tell me what this means -- Does it mean that she (or he) screens his/herself from all unsolicited mail, however Ozzy it may be? For those who are wondering, Ozmama@aol.com *is* Robin O. To all who organize Winkie Conventions: Who do I get in touch with if I wish to give a presentation of my own at the next one? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 21, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:43:57 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Content-disposition: inline David - I was seeking insight from the current generation to pass along to my son. I know how we did it. I would never ask Rachel to compare her mother to her step-mother. Regardless of appearances on the Digest, I have learned some tact. Sounds like this is something the two of us can discuss over an adult beverage at next years Winkies. I am still suffering from having missed this years and will hopefully meet you and a host of others then. Tyler: My first father-in-law was a large and small animal vet. Thus, Donkey = ass Jackass = male ass Mule = a sterile hybrid of a jackass and a mare (female horse). Jenny = a female ass Jennet = a hybrid of a jenny and a stallion (male horse). [I think.] OK - This is RTO Day - right? Is JOdel off-sides one day? Is so she should get a one day penalty on the next book. :) Well, RTO is prefaced by a classic manipulation: ".....a long and exciting story that it must be saved for another book--and perhaps that book will be the last story that will ever be told about the Land of Oz." We'll have to give LFB a zero as a seer. The implicit "Come on kids, buy lots of books and beg me to write more," is not too appealing. In this day and age if Shaggy tried to lead Dorothy off somewhere he would be in the slammer post haste. Then there is also the dognapping of Toto. It is a rather curious that she is not a little wary of an old tramp. Not behavior most mothers would have encouraged even in those days. On the other hand in her day and age if she talked like that to an adult she would have gotten rapped up the side of her head. Evidence: P.14 "Dear me!" cried Dorothy; "I shall have to show you the way: your so stupid." P.15 "My, but you're clumsy!" said the little girl. This starts out to be one rude little girl. Happily she shapes up. P.15 and 42 Give us Ozma's birthday - August 21st. P. 70 "...I've noticed if I happen to get lost I'm almost sure to come to the Land of Oz in the end, somehow 'r other....." Here is ammunition for the "ta'veren" theory as relates to Dorothy and her travels. P. 165 And one for the Socialists: "Fortunately money is not known in the Land of Oz at all. We have no rich, and no poor: for what one wishes the others all try to give him, in order to make him happy, and no one in all Oz cares to have more than he can use." [Sorry Eric - no money!] Swell, to make me happy I'll need a room in the palace, a couple of servants and lots of free time. Hmmm, that's something like what I have now, minus the servants. P.165 "Good!" cried the shaggy man, greatly pleased to hear this. "I also despise money....." There is nothing like despising what you can't earn yourself. P. 176 "......for in the Land of Oz there were no town or villages except the magnificent Emerald city in its center." Now why would LFB say this? The troupe just visited Foxville and Dunkiton, not to mention other towns/cities in other books. Curious. P.191 Oh, oh Shaggy here is the hook. "Don't they work, at all?" asked the shaggy man. "To be sure they work," replied the Tin Woodman; "this fair city could not be built or cared for without labor, nor could the fruit and vegetables and other food be provided for the inhabitants to eat. But no one works more than half his time, and the people of Oz enjoy their labors as much as they do their play." "It's wonderful!" declared the shaggy man. Hey, did you catch that Shaggy? "Half his time." Get ready for 12 hour work details, seven days a week. Oh, unless you are part of the royalty, whose work is ruling. You can see they need some union organizers in there. What kind of drug do you suppose they slip in the people's food so they "enjoy their labors as much as they do their play." I think Oz's dark side is showing in this book. And how about those Scoodlers? I'm glad I missed this book as a small sensitive child. All that bit with the soup kettle and "Take them away," she commanded the guard, "and at six o'clock run them through the meat chopper and start the soup kettle boiling." (P.118) This is a little much. The plot of this book is almost non-existant. Let's go to Oz, have some minor adventures on the way and have a birthday party so we can meet all of Baum's characters from his other books. This book couldn't have done much to help sales of the sequel. On to "The Emerald City of Oz." Critically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:25:43 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 07-20-97 Joyce: I agree in general with your comments on ROAD. Let's see if I can find some nits to pick... While I agree that the first half (roughly) of the book, up until the travelers meet Tik-Tok and Billina, is much superior to the rest of the book, those parts still read more like average Thompson than most of the rest of Baum. (DOTWIZ and the parts of EC that don't deal with the Nome King's invasion have the succession of small communities, but the rest of Baum's books generally don't.) One of the things that seemed most noticeable in ROAD, compared with the other "Dorothy" Oz books, is that she seems a much more sophisticated young lady (despite her occasional lapses of diction) than elsewhere, and Uncle Henry seems to be more prosperous. An example is the apple tree in their yard - where did it come from? From the description of their house in WIZARD it seems highly unlikely that any kind of tree would be growing in their yard. And in general, the small fenced fields (a 10-acre field is small in Kansas) don't sound typical of a subsistence-level farm. I've always thought that Dorothy's description of the Shaggy Man as "stupid" was something she said under her breath, but maybe this is just because I've always liked Dorothy - remembering that the second book that I read was WISHING HORSE. I don't think that Shaggy would have been quite as kind to her if he'd really heard her say that about him. I too like Johnny Dooit; even if Oz wasn't an appropriate place for him to demonstrate his Yankee ingenuity, it would seem that Shaggy might have called on him again in TIK-TOK at a couple of points, or possibly Dorothy might have remembered him in RINKITINK. (But it leaves the opportunity for some of us to write JOHNNY DOOIT IN OZ (or maybe THE CLEVER CRAFTSMAN OF OZ, something like that).) Dave: Borders didn't start carrying BoW/ECP books until about this time last year. You might check the Borders in Brea sometime in the near future to see if they do now. I can't say for sure, but it sounds as if JelliaJamb@aol.com might have some kind of filter on her mail. I'll try sending her a message, and if that doesn't work I'll ask my daughter (who's on AOL herself) to try. We shall solve this problem... I'll send you Katie Fleming's snail-mail address by private E-mail. Probably no reason not to put it on the Digest, but I'm a little sensitive about that sort of thing. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:43:43 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 07-20-97 Dave, I suspect the message you got about JelliaJamb@aol.com not accepting your message is probably just what you suspected. AOL has a feature that allows subscribers to block all e-mail, block e-mail from selected addresses, or allow e-mail from selected addresses. It sounds like a great way to block spam, but it doesn't work too well in practice. My list of blocked addresses grew to about 30 before I realized that I couldn't keep up with all the junk that keeps on coming. As for allowing only certain e-mail addresses, I'm afraid that's a bit too restrictive. Until there's a better solution, I guess I'll have to keep on manually deleting messages that appear suspicious. Unfortunately, even that has its pitfalls -- I've accidentally deleted some legitimate ones. As for JelliaJamb, there may be another way to reach her (him?). I'll see what I can think of. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:19:58 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: for Oz digest O.K. all, remember that I just started reading the Oz books about 2 months ago and am only up to book 8. My views on THE ROAD TO OZ: The characters: I didn't take to them as I had to characters in the first 4 books. This includes the Wizard and Jim the Cab Horse in DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ. I didn't care for the Shaggy Man. He seemed nice and helpful, but there was nothing odd enough or special enough to like him in my opinion. Polychrome was o.k., but again, boring. I really didn't care for Button Bright who had no personality at all. The Story: Interesting up until they get to Oz. However, the shaggy man and Buttom Bright's head changing really has no purpose. The Scoodler part was the best part of the book in my opinion. They made very interesting and fun villains. Are they in any FF books after book 8 or any non FF books? Once our friends get to Oz the books takes a dive for the worst. The party and all the guests, the jewels, the candies, etc. It was very poor. This was the only Oz book I didn't like of the first seven. I hope there aren't many more like it!! Douglas in San Diego p.s. Coronado is not part of San Diego. It is like Poway, National City, Chula Vista, El Cajon, and La Mesa. A satellite city. It is, however, a beautiful island. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:16:39 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Dorothy's dress Cc: 'Dave Hardenbrook' London, Blue gingham aprons? I guess you could have them made with a simple pattern. Blue gingham you can get anywhere. I'll forward your note to the Ozzy Digest members in case anyone there knows of a commercial source. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot -----Original Message----- From: LondonMac@aol.com [SMTP:LondonMac@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 1997 8:13 AM Subject: Dorothy's dress Hello! I am trying to find aprons that look like Dorothy's dress. I need to fit 150 little girls. Have you any idea? Thank you so much! London ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 03:36:49 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-15-97 Content-disposition: inline David: >_Kabumpo_ is one of those Oz books that I enjoy thinking about considerably more than I enjoy rereading. It has really quite a good story line, and interesting characters, but every time I reread it I find that it doesn't quite hang together right. I don't know if it's the pacing (though I think that's probably a lot of it), or something else, but it's one that could probably have used a good editor (which R&L doesn't seem to have had on staff, alas).< According to an autobiographical article in the Bugle, Thompson turned down editorial suggestions for improving "Royal Book of Oz," because "I knew it was a good story." I can sympathize on one hand--when I was her age when she wrote "Royal Book," I didn't like the idea of having my words tampered with either. But any writer should appreciate editing and suggestions that improve the story and make him/her look good. You're right that her stories could have used some editing to correct technical problems, like placing the EC palace over a large cavern of equal shape and size. A savvy editor could have written in supports of some sort--stone pillars, steel beams--*something" to make that situation believable. (Unless the Palace floats on this cavern like Sky Island or Laputa!) In "Purple Prince," Nandywog is supposed to be twenty feet tall, but only a much taller giant could pick up Kabumpo like a lapdog. Compared to a twenty-foot giant, Kabumpo would be more like an Irish wolfhound. In short, Ozma finds her long-lost father, Pastoria. ( We're long overdue for a story in which her mum shows up! :) )< BEOO has published such a book. :-) My mother-in-law just gave me an etiquette book published in 1904, and it states the same thing (Ruth Berman?) said about eating peas with a knife. It says this practice may be excused when done by the elderly, who lived back before the 4-tined fork, but there's no excuse for anyone else to eat peas with a knife. Baum may have been poking fun at the more nit-picky aspects of good etiquette when he had the Scarecrow think the Wizard's manner of pea-eating "suspicious." The etiquette book also states that good manners should come from the heart--they should not be just show. So the Victorian writer of the book at least encouraged genuine concern for the feelings of others. Barbara DeJohn >I agree with David Hulan that those of you who are lamenting finding girls who like you more Having a bit of a brain-blank here. The apple trees that Dorothy & Co. >encounter in the MGM film-are they strictly a movie creation? I haven't >read Wizard in a while, and couldn't remember where the trees were. The Forest of Fighting Trees is the first danger Dorothy & friends encounter when going into Quadling Country in "Wizard". But while Denslow draws them with faces, they don't speak like the movie trees. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:48:24 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 7/15 Digest, David Hulan says some nice things about me. This is high praise indeed, considering that he has correctly inferred that I tend to vote Republican. Shucks, folks, I'm speechless! And in the same Digest, Bear complains about the poor quality of TV programming. Bear, that's why they call TV a medium. It's not rare and it's not well done. :-) Also Bear says that Martians landing in the Sahara Desert would think the Earth was lifeless. Ah, but if the Martians just check on the microscopic level, they will find plenty of examples of our planet's dominant life form - bacteria. Dave, the hexes are back (at least for me) in the 7/17 Digest. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:12:49 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 Tyler Jones >Aphra Behn? Wow! She was one of the "historical" characters in RIVEWORLD. >Every once in a while I've looked for some of her work and could not find >it. What have you been reading of hers and what do you think of it? "The Rover, or The Banish't Cavaliers" is her most popular play, and is available in several editions; it's a terrific farce in the best Restoration mode, made the more fascinating by its female point of view. Most of her comedies are quite good. Her single tragedy, "Abdelazar, or the Moor's Revenge", is weakened by a rushed ending, but is quite powerful in its characterizations. (It was a popular play; Purcell's incidental music is well known to this day.) "Oroonoko, or The Royal Slave" is by far her best-known novel; she claims to have witnessed the latter part of the story herself, during her brief sojourn in Surinam. (After the Anglo-Dutch war, England gave Surinam to the Netherlands as a sort of consolation for New York.) It is the story of an African prince who is entrapped at the order of his own king and sent to the new world as a slave, where he eventually leads a revolt. The earlier part of the story is blatantly fiction in all its details (all the characters behave according to the accepted codes of upper-class Restorarion England), but the part set in America is very interesting indeed. Aphra Behn was not only the first Englishwoman to earn her living by the pen (with the possible exception of "Marie de France"), but, as far as I know, the first professional writer of note to be, in any sense, "American". Any good university library should have Montague Summers' edition of the "Complete Works", an incorrect title, as it omits the massive roman-a-clef "Love Letters Between a Nobleman and his Sister". (I should remark that the affair is not _quite_ as scandalous as it seems; ones "sisters", at that date, included sisters-in-law.) To the general membership: Please note that in science-fiction circles, the expression "sci-fi" is used only to designate garbage. "SF", "science fiction" or "speculative fiction" is eulogistic; "sci-fi" is dyslogistic (or, when used positively, the sure badge of an outsider). Bob Spark wrote: > I just finished _The Flying Girl_ by Baum in "Oz Story Magazine No. >3" (Hungry Tiger Press). I would like some comments from others who >have read it. My first reaction is that it certainly doesn't come up to >the quality of the Oz books. > I found the story line to be too "busy" with too many sub plots, >most of which were barely developed. The characterization was >confusing. To me, the most interesting characters were Cumberford and >his daughter, Sybil. She is described as a "demon" and he a >"scoundrel", but their actions are vastly at odds with these >characterizations. Even making allowances for the prevailing attitudes >of the times, many of the statements of the protagonists were quite >stilted. > I had the feeling that this was the rough draft of a work that Baum >was planning to refine and develop into a series, possibly with >offshoots to other series (what is the plural of "series", anyhow?). At >any rate, I felt it needed more work. Well, in the first place "series" _is_ the plural of "series", and The Flying Girl _was_ a series, although it ended after only two volumes. Hungry Tiger Press also has a nice edition of the second volume, which includes all the original illustrations to the both. "Edith van Dyne" _liked_ confusing characterizations; the "Aunt Jane's Nieces" books are full of them. And the density of plotting is about typical for the first volume of any juvenile series of the period. I'm afraid I cannot make head nor tail of your "Even making allowances... stilted." sentence; what have attitudes to do with rhetoric? // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:46:07 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Idle curiosity -- why do some of the messages in the Digest include a line in the sender's heading that says "Content-disposition: inline"? Tyler Jones: I think either Kabumpo or Hank as a symbol might lead to confusion over whether a political statement was being made. Scott Piehler: Another example of Oz apple trees is "Ojo," where there are silver apple trees in Unicorners. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-97 Hi Dave, Alas, the rumor that the Winkies will be meeting at the Hotel del Coronado is unfounded. There was consideration by the Oz Club of holding the Club's Centennial Convention (celebrating the hundredth anniversary of the publication of _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_) at the Del, but we finally concluded that we should move to a centrally located site and one that is more modestly priced. Winkies will continue to meet at Asilomar Conference Center in Pacific Grove, California. Peter Hanff ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:15:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 07-20-97 Douglas: Actually Tik_Tok *does* have a major role in at least one later book: SCALAWAGONS OF OZ. He is the manager of the Scalawagon factory. Dave: Whether return postage can be provided at this date is one I cannot answer. You should try to contact John Fricke, who is in charge of all MSS. It seems to me it would be difficult to determine what the return postage would be afterthe fact. Whenever I send off a MS (usually for my wife who writes SF), I alsways enclose a SASE for returning the MS. I never heard of sending return postage post-facto. What is the difference between the R&L and BOW editions of MERRY GO ROUND? Aside from the several hundred dollars, Dick Martin drew a new cover design for the BOW edition. Since the subject of ROAD TO OZ has been broached, a few ramdom thoughts. What sort of person is the Shaggy Man if he casually steals a young girl's dog and sticks it in his pocket? How times have changed: Can you imagine a pre-teen girl casually going off with a bearded stranger and no-one thinking anything wrong about it? The earlier and later history of the Shaggy Man has been treated in March Laumer's THE CARELESS KANGAROO OF OZ, which also traces the origins of the love magnet. Concerning the Munchkin Convention: If the date for the 1998 convention is not yet determined I would like to mention that the 56th World Science Fiction Convention will be held in Baltimore,MD (only a short drive from Wilmington,DE from Wednesday August 5 through Sunday August 9. It would be convenient for people who would like to attend both if Munchkin Con could be held July 31 to August 2 or (a little less desirable) August 14-16. Please keep this in mind. If I can only attend one of them it would probably the SF Con in Baltimore. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:45:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-16-97 Robin: Doesn't Rinkitink end in the Emerald City? David: Baum's text clearly described Polychrome as a little girl, despite what illustrators have done with her (now, Tyler...). Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:57:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-17-97 David: That sounds like my friend Ryan, who thought it would be cool to vote for the really weak Democrats in the primary so they would be easier to defeat. Dave: I've contacted people on firefly with names like "glinda" "CowardlyLion," "HungryTiger," and "Polychrome," but none of them have responded, nor has "Hiergargo.venues." Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:13:26 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-97 Tyler: I mule is the sterile offspring of a mare and a donkey. (I know there is a differewnt term for the offspring of a stallion and a jenny, but I don't remember. I think it satrts with an h. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:17:14 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-97 Scott: There are no apple trees per se in WWoO. There are, however, the Fighting Trees in the northern Quadling country. They look like ordinary trees, but their branches grab intruders and throw them. Toto got caught by one, so Nick cut the branch off. Denslow and most other illustrators have given the trees faces, which Baum never describes them as having. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:28:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 07-20-97 Joyce: You may be interested that Johnny Dooit is prominently featured in Ralph Griffith's _Oz_ comicbook series. BTW, Ernie Hudson stars in the HBO _Oz_ show. Has anyone watched it yet? Scott ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 22 - 23, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:49:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-97 Why does everyone seem to dislike _The Tin Woodman of Oz_? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:16:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 07-20-97 and 7-21 7-20's Digest Re ROAD: But is Button-Bright really stupid, or does he just choose not to input into what he doesn't know about? (I think we've discussed this before but don't recall our conclusion.) Dogs always get in people's way--it's their nature. (That statement's in response to JOdel's observation that Toto served to get in Dorothy's in WIZARD.) Sorry if I've offended any dog lovers--that's just been my observation of dogs in my 20 years of life . . . On to the 21st: Bear: My goodness! Talk about negative thinking! "There is nothing like despising what you can't earn yourself", "Implicit `come on kids, buy lots of books and beg me to write not more' is not too appealing", "I think Oz's dark side is showing in this book" [okay, that one's true], "And how about those Scoodlers? I'm glad I missed this book as a small, sensitive child"--Baum would be horrified to hear your comments (and he was a--whoops, can't say that). Douglas of San Diego: As for non-FF books that feature Scoodlers, try Chris Dulabone's DAGMAR OF OZ. (Now I wouldn't say that if I had written it, since we all know I don't advertise books on the Digest . . .) Earl Abbe: You say, "And in the same Digest, Bear complains about the poor quality of TV programming. Bear, that's why they call TV a medium. It's not rare and it's not well done. :-)" Now that's a motion I second! (And I don't mean the motion of reaching for a remote :-| ) About your comment that Martians would find Earth relatively "lifeless"--well, they'd sure find lotza creatures who value "lifeless" than they should! Ruth: You comment, "Idle curiosity -- why do some of the messages in the Digest include a line in the sender's heading that says "Content-disposition: inline"?" Well, what it really means is that the sender's disposition is content to be inline. (That was my usual gibberish, try to make no sense of it, for your own good :-) ) Babbling as usual, Jeremy Steadman AND KIEX!!!!! KIEX: The babbling is because he's involved. It always works that way with males. Jeremy: I heard that! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:37:15 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-97 Re: Coronado is not part of San Diego. It is...a satellite city. It >is, however, a beautiful island. Well, not exactly. The city of Coronado is located on a peninsula. Re: What is the difference between the R&L and BOW editions of MERRY GO ROUND? Aside from the several hundred dollars, Dick Martin drew a new cover design for the BOW edition. Evidently there isn't much difference between the two. But, then, there isn't much difference between the BOW reprints and the other books they've put out, either. First editions of a desirable book will almost always command high prices. I understand they're going to build a Borders here in San Diego in Mission Valley. At least that's a little closer to where I live..... Dave visits the Borders at the Newport Mall? That's pretty a pretty high rent area there... Was there a few weeks ago and all I saw were Mercedes and BMWs in the parking lot... Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:14:47 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Content-disposition: inline Earl - The Martians who actually landed in the Sahara forgot to bring a microscope, so they looked around, were disappointed, packed up and went home. :) Golly John, out here on the left coast "SF" can only mean San Francisco. So around here even an "outsider" like me, who has only been reading sci-fi for 50 years, gets to call it sci-fi. Besides, I think most of you avid SF'ers were agreeing that most of it is sci-fi lately. Ruth - "Content-disposition: inline"? I think this gets added by Compuserve. Why I can't imagine. I wonder when mail utilities are going to get to the point where all of that useless blither is removed before we have to bother with it? Always voting with William of Occam, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:41:34 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-97 Bear: To be fair, Shaggy didn't try "to lead Dorothy off somewhere." Dorothy volunteered to lead _him_ somewhere. Still a bad idea, of course, even in 1909 (or whenever the book took place), but all Shaggy did was ask her the way - and her explanation _was_ pretty confused. >P. 176 "......for in the Land of Oz there were no town or villages except >the magnificent Emerald city in its center." >Now why would LFB say this? The troupe just visited Foxville and Dunkiton, >not to mention other towns/cities in other books. Curious. Foxville and Dunkiton weren't in Oz. And in fact, unless you count the Dainty China Country, no towns or villages had appeared _in Oz_ in any of the earlier books. (There were probably settlements around the castles of the WWW, Glinda, and Gayelette, but they might not have been extensive enough to be called towns or villages.) It was only in EMERALD CITY that we started running into towns and villages - quite a few of them - elsewhere in Oz, and even then they were comparatively rare until Thompson got into the act. The Oz economy isn't really socialistic, at least as that term is generally understood today; socialism is an economic system where the state owns the means of production. The Oz economy is utopian communism: a system that's as fundamentally unworkable in a human society as strict Libertarianism, but then the inhabitants of Oz aren't strictly human - at least, most of them. (When one of them starts acting like a typical human - Ugu, for instance, or the Su-dic of the Flatheads - he gets "corrected" as soon as he's found out.) I don't recall if it's in _Road_ or one of the other earlier books (probably _Emerald City_), but the "work half the time" line is amplified to "work half the time and play half the time". Since we know that Ozites also eat and sleep, the implication is that it's the rest of their time that's equally divided between work and play. That's much more reasonable; figure 8 hours a day of sleeping and probably 2 hours eating and you're looking at a 49-hour work week - which is a lot less than the typical work week in either industry or agriculture in America in 1909. 55-60 hours a week was more typical then. 49-hour weeks are more common than not for "exempt" workers even today, and not uncommon even for people who have to be paid time and a half for more than 40 hours. (I believe the current average work week for non-exempt people is around 44.5 hours, though that may be for manufacturing workers only.) Craig: You're probably right that "JelliaJamb" has blocked E-mail from all but a few addresses. That's unfortunate; it means that nobody can get in touch with her that she doesn't know is trying to. Have you tried to E-mail her? I believe there is one option that just blocks E-mail from outside AOL. (Actually, I could go down to the PC and try myself; I still have an AOL account, even though I don't use it for much.) Douglas: The Shaggy Man's personality is developed more over the next three books, but although he's likeable enough he isn't as colorful as most of Baum's characters. Polychrome appears again at some length in TIK-TOK and TIN WOODMAN, and makes brief appearances in several other books (SKY ISLAND, PURPLE PRINCE, LUCKY BUCKY, and I may be forgetting one or two); her character is best developed, I think, in TIN WOODMAN. Button-Bright has little personality in ROAD, but then it seems clear from the way he talks that he's probably no more than four years old, maybe younger. (The statement that he "seemed two or three years younger than Dorothy" has to be taken with a grain of salt, I think. Depending on how you assess Oz chronology Dorothy may be nine or ten or eleven in ROAD, but surely no younger than nine. Button-Bright certainly isn't six or seven years old; if he were, he'd have to be retarded and his actions in later books clearly demonstrate that he's not. He's just very young in ROAD.) SKY ISLAND is the book where he shows up best, though he has significant roles in SCARECROW and LOST PRINCESS, and a minor one in GLINDA. (And a strong one in the non-FF GLASS CAT, among others.) The Scoodlers aren't in any FF book after ROAD. In SCALAWAGONS Neill has a race he calls "Mifkits" that somewhat resemble the Scoodlers, and are equated with them on the Haff-Martin map the IWOC sells, but there are major differences in both the way Neill draws the characters and the text descriptions of them. As far as I can determine in a quick scan the Mifkits can't remove their heads, and they certainly aren't two-faced. The only resemblance I can find is that both races are bad-tempered and live across the Deadly Desert south of Oz. (The Mifkits are much more like the Mifkets from JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB, and are probably based on them, although the Mifkets lived on an island. Some of them might have colonized the mainland, though, I suppose.) As to non-FF appearances by Scoodlers, if my MS should win the Centennial Contest then they appear in it. (If it doesn't win, though, that sequence would be one of the first things I'd cut in trying to shave it down to BoW length.) They don't appear in any of the other non-FF books that I've read, at least that I recall, but I haven't read more than a quarter of the non-FF books that have been published, if that. You'd have to ask Steve or Tyler or Chris D. about that. ROAD is to me the worst Oz book not by Neill, although COWARDLY LION, OZOPLANING, and HIDDEN VALLEY are little better. At least, to my taste. Others like one or more of these books better than I do. Certainly there's no other book that vaguely resembles ROAD in plot (or absence thereof). Melody: They may not be mentioned in KABUMPO, but when Matiah returns to the cavern under Ozma's palace in WISHING HORSE there are clearly supporting pillars in it - Matiah knocks himself out running into one when Dorothy uses the darkness powder and Iva runs away with the emeralds. Granted, this isn't consistent with Thompson's description of Ruggedo expanding laterally until he fills the cavern, and then vertically, but how would she have known that sequence anyhow? And if Rug expanded in a more normal way then maybe his feet wouldn't have been so large as to disturb the supports (or the supports might have stayed with the palace, hanging down between the spikes on his head). Oh, certainly an annual book (and Baum was writing much more than that; the Oz books and his other more-or-less annual fantasies were only a fraction of his total writing output) is very likely to result in uneven quality; sometimes the ideas come, and sometimes they don't. I think the poorish quality of DOTWIZ and ROAD is almost certainly attributable to the fact that Baum didn't want to write about Oz and thus had a hard time coming up with good ideas for Oz books. TIN WOODMAN, on the other hand, has a pretty good set of ideas behind it; I think it's weak because he didn't execute it very well. Tolkien is, after all, rather a special case; he spent something like thirty years writing four books - and rewriting, and rewriting, and polishing...few authors have the luxury of that kind of leisure. None, that are trying to make a living from their writing. Actually, based on both the colors used for the printing in the early editions and Baum's statement that the winged monkeys flew them over the Hammerhead mountains to the Quadling Country, the Fighting Trees weren't in the QC but in some sort of no-man's land between the EC and the QC. (As were the Dainty China Country, the forest where the Cowardly Lion returned to rule, and the Hammerhead Mountains.) Apparently Glinda's writ didn't extend that far north until after Ozma's accession. Earl: Right - there's no really sterile environment on the Earth's surface. (Oh, there may be a brief span when molten lava is in the process of flowing, but bacteria and even multicellular life will quickly colonize it as soon as it cools to 140 degrees F or so.) And some pretty hostile environments, like geysers, have been found to have some life forms in them. John K.: Among old-time SF purists the term "sci-fi" is anathema, but it seems to be a losing battle. Even a fair number of old-time fans have bowed to popular usage and use the term (or the variant "skiffy"). I've been around since the term of choice was still "stf" (abbreviation of Hugo Gernsback's original term, "scientifiction", pronounced "steff"), and I can tell you that the number of people who seriously object to "sci-fi" (which was coined by Forry Ackerman in the late '50s) has been steadily dwindling. I don't use it myself (I have some pride...), but I don't object when others do. Ruth: Right - I'd forgotten the silver apples in Unicorners. Steve: I'd forgotten Tik-Tok's role in SCALAWAGONS. (I do my best to forget that book...) There's no way I'd pay to have my MS shipped back to me. It would be cheaper to print a new copy. I certainly wouldn't want all three copies sent back. And since I know my MS was something like 195 pages, it wouldn't fit securely into any envelope anyhow - maybe a Jiffy bag or equivalent padded mailer. They're moving the Worldcon from Labor Day Weekend? Are you sure? That's been a tradition for US-based Worldcons since they began in 1939; I'd have thought there'd have been a huge controversy over moving it to early August, and that I'd have heard about it by now. Scott H.: Baum described Polychrome as a little girl, no older than Dorothy, in ROAD, it's true (though Neill draws her as a precocious 12 or average 13), but in TIK-TOK she seems to appear old enough that when she says she's "lost her bow" Shaggy thinks she meant, "beau," and furthermore suggests himself as a replacement. Little girls didn't have beaux; I think this is a definite implication that in that book, at least, she must have appeared in her mid-teens. The appearance of fairies seems to be quite variable in any case. Screen names "glinda" and "CowardlyLion" could come from movie fans, but "HungryTiger" and "Polychrome" would have to come from people who know the books. Comments on ROAD: Did anyone else notice the odd typographic convention, which seems to be used only in ROAD and EMERALD CITY, where contractions include a space - e.g., would n't, have n't, etc? I've checked and it's not used in the earlier books, nor in PATCHWORK GIRL, though I haven't checked later books for it. Anybody know if this was a popular convention in 1909-10, or if it was some typesetter at R&L's idiosyncrasy? David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:22:03 -0500 (CDT) From: glassman@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-97 In response to David Hulan's question about the Emerald City Press titles: Yes, they will be available from Morrow. ALL titles published by Books of Wonder, whether with Morrow or on our own, will now be available through Morrow. Not only will this make the books easier for bookstores to order, but it also means we will have four times the number of sales representatives presenting our books in the US and distribution and sales representation throughout all of Canada as well. As for Borders - they have been extremely supportive of our publishing program. As for sales, I would have to conclude that all of our Oz books are selling well for them, since they keep on reordering them. And that's both classic Oz and Baum as well as Emerald City Press titles! - Peter Glassman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:13:32 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bear and Steve Teller: There've been a lot of people in recent years who've worried about issues of child-safety in Dorothy's willingness to wander off alone with the Shaggy Man. Re-reading "Road to Oz" now, though, it occurs to me that this fear tells more about contemporary phobias than about any real safety issues. When Dorothy gets to the crossroads and can't find the road to Butterfield, she looks around, expecting to head home, and is surprised to find that she can't see the house. This means that she has been (or would have been, without the interference of magic) *in *sight *of *home *the *whole *time* -- and the fact that someone might come running out with a pitchfork at need is probably good protection. (Of course, that leaves the question of how Uncle Henry, say, felt, when he saw his niece and the tramp suddenly vanish when the magic spell kicked in, but perhaps Ozma, having had time to think about such details beforehand, could be assumed to have included some kind of magical reassurance, even though the narrative doesn't say so.) Bear and Joyce Odell and David Hulan and Douglas Silfen all criticize the plot as weak, and there is probably general agreement. One advantage the book has, though, is that it has some of Neill's finest artwork in his most elaborate style. The drawings, if anything, are even busier than in "Dorothy and Wizard," but in "Road" the effect seems to me elegant rather than confusing. (A disadvantage for those who don't have early editions is that the drawings are so detailed as to be difficult to reprint well. Some of the fine lines disappear in a dark background haze.) Some examples of the art that seem to me especially appealing are the drawings of Polychrome dancing, with her robes swirling around her in a cloud of stars, the little bugs off on the sides of some drawings bemusedly watching the action, or the shagginess of the drawings of the Shaggy Man (along that line, as a child I enjoyed -- and still enjoy -- the humor of the cordial hospitality Ozma shows in arranging for Shaggy to remain shaggy, no matter how luxuriously dressed). On the worry over having the Shaggy Man steal Toto -- he isn't really stealing Toto, is he? He's stealing, but what he's stealing is a few apples (which might also pose a moral problem, but it seems excessive to worry about it?). Pocketing Toto is a precaution to get away with the apples. If magic hadn't kicked in at that point, presumably he would have freed Toto once he got farther away from the house, and Toto would have run home. Melody Grandy: You commented "any writer should appreciate editing and suggestions that improve the story" (in reference to RPT's reluctance to accept editing on "Royal Book"). It's a good general principle, but without knowing what the editors were suggesting, we don't really have much idea of whether their suggestions would actually have improved the story. Considering that RPT was looking back from a good many years further along and holding by her opinion, I think there's a good chance that the editing she was being offered was not really an improvement. The specific objection you make about the technical problem of building a palace over an immense cavern -- I think you're mixing up caverns from several different books? The "Royal Book" immense cavern is under the Scarecrow's beanpole, and there isn't any large structure over the hole down into the cavern. The caverns under Ozma's palace show up in "Kabumpo," and again in "Wishing Horse," but they seem to be a series of tunnels-with-wide-spots, and in spite of the enlargements made by Ruggedo before "Kabumpo," it doesn't sound as if they're extensive enough to be any real structural problem to a palace on top. The palace also drops into a palace-sized sink-hole in "Lost King," but there's a lot of industrial-strength magic getting thrown around at that point, and my impression is that the hole in that case is a side-effect of the magic, not something that was there all along. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:00:44 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-97 Hello Digesters! Just an aside. I just got back from a little bit of walking around Point Reyes in northern California. If any of you are in the area, this is definitely worth doing. It's a magical place, evoking Ozzie feelings. > P. 176 "......for in the Land of Oz there were no town or villages except > the magnificent Emerald city in its center." > > Now why would LFB say this? The troupe just visited Foxville and Dunkiton, > not to mention other towns/cities in other books. Curious. Your point about other books is taken, but were Foxville and Dunkiton located in Oz? Didn't our band of intrepid adventurers have to cross the deadly desert to get to Oz after being in those places? > >I agree with David Hulan that those of you who are lamenting finding girls > who like you more girls. I think that those of you who are in need of appropriate feminine companionship (or male companionship as the case may be) should cut 'way back on the lamenting and increase the conviviality. The companionship will follow "as the night the day". > "Edith van Dyne" _liked_ confusing characterizations; the "Aunt Jane's > Nieces" books are full of them. The fact that an author likes confusing characterizations does not confer literacy on them. > The Flying Girl _was_ a series, although it ended after only two > volumes. Hungry Tiger Press also has a nice edition of the second > volume, which includes all the original illustrations to the both. Perhaps I was unclear, I more had in mind something akin to spinoffs such are associated with some popular television series. At the present time, I am attempting to read _The Flying Girl and Her Chum_ with mixed success. My objections to the original work still apply to this one. It seems that a page can't go by without some fatuous ass making some statement about "a woman's place". If these irritations continue I will sure drop this as a lost cause. > I'm afraid I cannot make head nor tail of your "Even making allowances... > stilted." sentence; what have attitudes to do with rhetoric? Again, perhaps I was unclear. The attitude of the speaker certainly is responsible for his rhetoric. I am sorry to read that so many of you don't enjoy _The Road to Oz_. As I said before, It is one of my favorites. Possible this is because of the timing of my first reading as a child, but upon rereading, I find that it still enjoyable. Were I not so much of an egotist your evaluation would cause me to question my literary judgement, but I'm afraid that's out of the question :-). Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:54:42 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-97 Bear: I believe you are being unfair to Baum's utopia in your translations. "No one works more than half his time" does not mean people work twelve hour slifts. "Half *his* time" would mean half of the waking day, or eight hours, and this is the maximun time for working, not the standard. Baum would scorn the MGM lyrics: "We get up at noon and go to work at one. Spend an hour for lunch and then at two we're done (Jolly Good Fun!" Similarly "the people of Oz enjoy their labors as much as their play" does not mean that they were drugged. This is the meaning of *vocation.* In an ideally arranged society (I am not suggested that such a thing exists except in imagined utopias) every person would work at the tasks they find enjoyable. I do not know the origin of the statement: "The test of a vocation is the love of the tedium it involves"; but I consider it true. In HENRY IV, PART 1 Shakespeare has the prince say: "If all the year were sporting holidays,/ To sport would be as tedious to work. But when the seldom come they wished for come." (I.ii) Douglas in S.D.: The Scoodlers do make a reappearance in BEOO's DAGMAR IN OZ, in which the title character is the Scoodler Queen. The Shaggy Man is a rather underdeveloped character. He is, I believe, the only important visiter to Oz from America who is never given a proper name. (However the Wizard's proper name is not mentioned in FF after DOTWIZ.) He seems to be a tramp. James W. Riley wrote a poem entitled "The Raggedy Man" but I do not know of any connection to Baum's character. (There was a Sissy Spacek film of the same name--on connection). Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:33:55 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-18-97 Jellia Jamb asks through David if her full name apears anywhere in Wizard. Well, I'm afraid not as such, Jellia, but your first name appears 5 times. The minimal skip distances is an extremely large 7641 characters, starting after the lion gets his courage: /"Full of courage," replied the Lion, who went *j*oyfully back to his friends to tell them of his good fortune./ and working its way backwards, with the 'a' landing in the aftermath of the battle with the wolves. "Jamb" appears 109 times (predicted to appear 195 times, so this is quite low), the minimum being 24 in: / [...]tigers and the bears had ever tried to fight me, I should have run myself--I'm such a coward; but *j*ust as soon as they hear me ro*a*r they all try to get away fro*m* me, and of course I let them go." "*B*ut that isn't right. The King of Beasts shouldn't be a coward,"/ Interesting that they should appear in two completely opposite views of the lion! Tell me Jellia, is there anything going on between you and the lion that we should know about? ;-) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:24:12 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-19-97 BARLOW NATE wrote: >I'm not sure if this has been pointed out before (I haven't been able to >read the digest closely lately), but while in a local mall to pick up >convention supplies, I saw that the Warner Brothers store was selling MGM >Oz items. I hadn't noticed it, but it makes sense. Since Time-Warner merged with Turner, and Turner owns the old MGM library, it's all the same family now. What really jars me is seeing the Hanna-Barbera stuff side by side with Warners. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 97 11:45:25 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things L. Frank Baum wrote: >"Fortunately money is not known in the >Land of Oz at all. We have no rich, and no poor: for what one wishes the >others all try to give him, in order to make him happy, and no one in all >Oz cares to have more than he can use." I'm sorry so many find this a supremely ridiculous, "socialist-communist" concept...Ozma is just coming out in favor of a world of cooperation instead of a "dog-eat-dog" one... Ruth wrote: >Idle curiosity -- why do some of the messages in the Digest include a line >in the sender's heading that says "Content-disposition: inline"? And Bear responded: >I wonder when mail utilities are going to get to the point where all of that >useless blither is removed before we have to bother with it? Eudora (my mailer) surpresses the other headers though they're still there internally (and be seen if you click on a button that says, "BLAH BLAH BLAH"). My "Make_Digest" program filters out the headers, but "Content-disposition" may be one I missed...I haven't had a chance to check yet... DISCLAIMER: All the rest of my post today that follows is all IMHO (or "IJHO" -- "In Jellia's Humble Opinion" :) :) ) -- Scott wrote: >Why does everyone seem to dislike _The Tin Woodman of Oz_? _Tin W._ is one of the least satisfying of the FF...Nick is shamed into embarking on a wild goose chase to find a girl he no longer loves and undergoes vast hardships including being turned into a tin owl and the worthy-of-_Red-Dwarf_ paradox of holding a conversation with his flesh-and- blood alter-self. And at the end of it all he only finds the girl married to someone else. End of story. On the other hand there are things I like about this book including the major character development of Ozma and Polychrome. Ozma is at her strongest in this book, just before the onset of the "Dark Ages" during which Ozma reverts to being mostly an ineffectual, "little girl" ruler again... ( Not because Ozma really *was*, but because she was putting up a protective front against those not too keen on strong- minded women ruling Oz, but that's another MOPPET altogther. :) ) Jellia: Thanks for the info. regarding where my name appears in _Wizard_, Mike! Dave had been unable to make any progress because we don't have a search engine that sophisticated...But he *was* able to find the occurances of my name *as* my name in later books, and I am a little saddened see how few and brief my apperances are...And when I *do* appear, it's only as a one-dimensional neat-freak... :( Would Dave's character development of me in his writings, bringing out my sprightly and fun-loving nature, be as "heretical" in the eyes of Oz scholars as is Milady's coming of age in his writings? Of course, I'd like it if people didn't keep expressing an opinion before they can READ Dave's writings! I don't think that people will be so critical when his book do come out... Dave is only telling it like it is, at least in *our* universe! :) Dave: Oh dear...And I only meant to comment briefly on _Tin W._! :) Jellia: Sorry Dave, I'm rattling on again... :) -- Dave and Jellia (Partners in heresy???) :) :) :) ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 24, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:04:10 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-21-97 Richard Bauman wrote: >Jennet = a hybrid of a jenny and a stallion (male horse). [I think.] That's a hinney. A jennet is defined by the O.E.D. as "a small Spanish horse." >Well, RTO is prefaced by a classic manipulation: ".....a long and exciting >story that it must be saved for another book--and perhaps that book will >be the last story that will ever be told about the Land of Oz." We'll have >to give LFB a zero as a seer. The implicit "Come on kids, buy lots of books >and beg me to write more," is not too appealing. Errr.... On a scale of 0 to 10, that's about a -8. "Emerald City", the next book, _was_ intended as the last book, and for a few years, it was. >P. 176 "......for in the Land of Oz there were no town or villages except >the magnificent Emerald city in its center." > >Now why would LFB say this? The troupe just visited Foxville and Dunkiton, >not to mention other towns/cities in other books. Curious. Foxville and Dunkiton are not in Oz, and up to this time, there were no towns or cities in Oz apart from the Emerald City. Indeed, I don't believe there are any towns in Oz apart from the E.C. in _any_ of the books, if one excludes isolated princedoms and settlements of various eccentric races, beings, and characters. >Hey, did you catch that Shaggy? "Half his time." Get ready for 12 hour >work details, seven days a week. I rather fancy that's half of waking hours -- 8 hours a week -- and I dare say Baum would have expected his audience to understand a Sunday break as well. But even 12 * 7 wouldn't have been particularly extraordinary at the time; the 40-hour week is a very recent invention. >What kind of drug do you suppose they slip in the people's food so >they "enjoy their labors as much as they do their play." Well, they could start by having work that's worth the doing, as opposed to, say, the production of cheaply made, heavily advertised doodads created solely to winkle a little more cash out of the masses, with the dual purpose of fooling them into thinking they're happy and of keeping their bank accounts low enough so that those who eventually see through the trick don't have enough power or influence to do anything about it. If I, for one, should quit my present job, it will be out of nothing more, less or other than sheer disgust at its general uselessness. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:50:59 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-97 Yo, all! As to the advisability of Dorothy going off with the shaggy man, she has a long history of being in some fairly tight jams without any lasting adverse effects. Given her experience she probably felt that this was just another of those interesting adventures. If she had those feelings she was right. Shaggy's possession of the love magnet must certainly be taken into account, along with the idea that she is (and almost certainly knows) under the protection of Ozma and Glinda. I believe that mention has been made in the past that magic doesn't work in a civilized country (if the US was at that point or is now "civilized". Bear keeps bringing up his seniority, so perhaps he can attest to the conditions then). That idea has been disproven, or Ozma couldn't regularly check on Dorothy or relocate her to new strange places such as the crossroads. Whether Shaggy was given the love magnet by that Eskimo on the Sandwich Islands or stole it from the man in Butterfield the fact is that the magic of it worked quite well in the US. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 06:50:52 -0700 From: "L. Evans" Subject: Oz Hi, I'm a new member of the list who also just discovered the Oz books this past spring. So far, I've only read the Baum books, and only 1-8 and 13 and 14 (which is all I've been able to find so far). My interest in the books was piqued after watching the Oz silent films. Before that, I didn't even know more than one book existed! My favorite, so far, is "Patchwork Girl" with my fav all time character being the Glass Cat. I am a cat lover myself & GC reminds me so much of my little sassy Tisha who was my companion of 12 years (although she had a much sweeter overall disposition). I can just picture her saying, "Watch my brains, you can see 'em work!" I love getting this digest because I'm learning so much from it! Leslie ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:36:18 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-97 Scott H.: _Everyone_ doesn't dislike _The Tin Woodman of Oz_, but a lot of people, myself included, think it's one of Baum's weaker books. I was thinking about this question last night, and after some cogitation I think I've come to a tentative conclusion, at least as far as my personal ratings of Baum's Oz books are concerned. I tend to like them in direct proportion to the degree to which the central problem of the book is an important one, and to the success the protagonist has in solving it by his or her own efforts. Thus my favorites are _Lost Princess_ (rescue Ozma from captivity), _Rinkitink_ (free all the captives from Pingaree), and _Ozma_ (liberate the royal family of Ev, and later most of the expedition from Oz). My least favorite are _Road_ (get to Oz), _Dotwiz_ (ditto), and _Tin Woodman_ (find an old girlfriend the TW is no longer in love with and marry her, which doesn't end up happening at all). _Patchwork Girl_ has a serious central problem (break the petrifaction spell on Unk Nunkie and Margalotte), but is flawed by the fact that the protagonist's efforts are irrelevant to the solution. Much the same is true of _Glinda_. (The war between the Skeezers and Flatheads goes ahead despite Ozma's intervention, though nothing serious happens because the Su-dic transforms Coo-ee-oh and then accidentally overturns his pot of poison.) In _Emerald City_ and _Magic_ there's a serious problem - in both cases the Nome King's attempt to conquer Oz - but in both there's a major secondary plot that actually takes up most of the book and the attempt at conquest is foiled with little effort when someone in Oz becomes aware of it. _Wizard_, _Land_, and _Tik-Tok_ have real - though not terribly important - problems posed, but the protagonists have little to do with their solution. (Glinda solves the first two and Tititi-hoochoo the third.) Finally, there's _Scarecrow_, which wouldn't rate much higher than _Road_ based on the first halves of both books (which aren't that dissimilar), but which is redeemed because the Jinxland section is a great deal more interesting than the birthday party. This, of course, is strictly my own reaction. I like problem-solving stories. If your taste runs in a different direction, then it probably would explain why your favorite books are different from mine. And it's interesting that with the Thompson books the same factors don't seem to apply as well regarding my own taste. It's certainly true that _Wishing Horse_, my top favorite, falls into that category, as do _Lost King_ and _Handy Mandy_, but I'm also very fond of _Ojo_, _Speedy_, and _Silver Princess_, and none of them presents the protagonist with a major problem early in the book that he has to solve by the end. Ojo just needs to get back to the Emerald City, Speedy needs to get back to America, and Randy wants to visit Jinnicky. Anyhow, I think I've found the source for why I feel the way I do about Baum's books, which is something. Thanks for starting me thinking about it. Jeremy: I don't think Button-Bright is stupid, just very young. Scott O.: The Borders Dave visits is in (or near) the Mission Viejo Mall, not Fashion Island in Newport Beach. Not nearly so upscale (though it probably has few patrons from households with incomes under $60,000 or so). Bear: I think you're right; the only people with the "Content disposition: inline" line with their posts that I can find are the three of you (among the regular contributors) who use Compuserve as their ISP. (You, Tyler, and Melody.) Peter G.: That's great news, that Morrow is carrying the ECP books as well as the FF and Baum reprints! Even just carrying the latter would have been good news, but it's even better that they'll be carrying the new Oz books as well. (Especially GLASS CAT! :-)) After August 1 I'll go to Anderson's (where I buy most of my books) and bug them again about carrying GC, since they do seem to feature other local authors. And it's also great to hear that Borders is reordering from you. I'm looking forward to my next royalty statement. :-) Ruth: I agree that _Road_ has some of Neill's best artwork, though unfortunately this is one book where the BoW reprint - or at least my copy - doesn't come through too well. A lot of the fine line-work is muddied. I'm probably going to have to pick up an older R&L copy somewhere along the line to get the quality I'd like in illustrations. (I'm not a fanatic about it; I'm not after a pristine R&B edition, but I want something better than I have.) It does say in _Kabumpo_ that the main cavern Ruggedo lived in was the exact shape of the palace and directly under it. It doesn't, however, say that there weren't any supports. Also, since the cavern had been dug out by Glegg, he probably used magic to support its roof. Glegg seems to have been a highly accomplished magic-worker. There are some reasonably important visitors to Oz from America that didn't arrive with proper names - Bill, the iron weathercock, and Benny, the living statue, for two. Oh, and Merry-Go-Round. "Benny" in particular falls into the same category as "Shaggy". But I think Shaggy and his brother are the only two humans from America who are unnamed. Jellia: Bringing out your sprightly and fun-loving nature shouldn't be heretical at all, since the only two books where you appear at any length (_Land_ and _Ozoplaning_) give you just such a nature. Different people, of course, have different ideas of what constitutes "heresy". Chris D., for instance, seems to have a very rigid idea, which amounts to having any character do anything he doesn't think they'd do (which results in his considering even some of the FF heretical). I have a much more tolerant definition; I don't consider anything heretical that doesn't flatly contradict something in the FF. So, for instance, I don't consider "Sir Harold and the Gnome King" heretical (though it's clearly off in a post-FF time-line of its own). And I don't consider Dave's idea of Ozma maturing and marrying to be heretical, though again I'd probably consider it to be on a post-FF time-line of its own and not something I'd expect other Oz writers to take into consideration in their writings. But, then, I don't expect other Oz writers to consider _anything_ but the FF in their writings; everything else, even the post-FF books by FF authors, is apocrypha. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:43:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christine R. Gray" Subject: Re: Oz blacklisted in the 30's? Can anyone on the list help with this? My mother said that the Pratt LIbrary in Baltimore in the early 1930s would not allow children to read the Wizard of Oz. Does anyone one know what the library might have found objectionable about the book? Also, I just had a window screen painted with a scene from the Wizard of Oz--Dorothy, the tinman, scarecrow, lion, witch and Toto with the Emerald City in the background. Screen painting is a form of folk art in balto. It allows you to look out and prevents outsiders from looking in. christine gray ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:47:37 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-97 David: Yes, Baum did seem to have a tendency to be quite influenced by Neill's illustrations (I imagine he liked them more than he would admit), hence the older Polychrome (though I took the pun as a bit of silliness from the Shaggy Man's part, as one might joke with a pre-teenager not yet interested in a romance), and especially, the brown Woozy toy and poem, and presumably suit, when Baum said he was dark blue in color. Dave: I find Tin Woodman to be one of the most interesting books in the series, not necessarily the best, but up there. Probably because Baum did a lot more with character development than he had done previously. It had quite a heavy influence on my centenniel MS, Nick and Amee meet again in my next book, _Nikidik in Oz_ (suggested in part by Fred's Christmas card, plus about five other original plots rolled into one) but they still don't get together... Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:20:08 -0500 From: Mike Denio Subject: For Ozzy Digest At 07:19 PM 7/22/97 -0700, you wrote: > >L. Frank Baum wrote: >>"Fortunately money is not known in the >>Land of Oz at all. We have no rich, and no poor: for what one wishes the >>others all try to give him, in order to make him happy, and no one in all >>Oz cares to have more than he can use." > >I'm sorry so many find this a supremely ridiculous, "socialist-communist" >concept...Ozma is just coming out in favor of a world of cooperation >instead of a "dog-eat-dog" one... > It's that "and no one ... cares to have more than he can use" part that makes it a fairy story. Still, its nice to dream. Is that a quote from _Emerald City_? EC is definitely Baum's tribute (for lack of a better word) to socialism. Of course his very next Oz book opens up with two characters who have to leave their home for lack of food... Mike ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:56:21 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Kiex - Negative thinking is not the ability to recognize negative things. Maybe you have noticed that some things in life are not positive - even in Oz. Part of my "problem" is what is known as "engineers burden." We are taught to look for what is wrong with things, not what is right. This approach to life is not at all popular with wives and we receive regular sessions of thinking adjustment in an attempt to correct it. In my case it has only been partially successful. :) David - Thanks for clearing up the town/city question I had. Reading the books out of order leads to a loss of sequential development. In fact, with the exception of Jordan and Goodkind, I always wait until a series is completed before I start it. That wouldn't have been too practical with Oz books. What "Worldcon" is moving to August? The July issue of Locus doesn't list it? The World Fantasy Convention is Oct 30th in London. Ruth >On the worry over having the Shaggy Man steal Toto -- he isn't really stealing Toto, is he? He's stealing, but what he's stealing is a few apples (which might also pose a moral problem, but it seems excessive to worry about it?). Pocketing Toto is a precaution to get away with the apples. If magic hadn't kicked in at that point, presumably he would have freed Toto once he got farther away from the house, and Toto would have run home. How can I resist this? He isn't really stealing...... but he is stealing! Is this modern thinking? I can walk in your yard, STEAL your apples and put your dog in my pocket. Then when I wander away and you have the cops grab me I can just say, "I wasn't really stealing, I was just taking a precaution so I could steal." Beam me up. Dave - How easy it seems to be to think in false dichotomies. >I'm sorry so many find this a supremely ridiculous, "socialist-communist" concept...Ozma is just coming out in favor of a world of cooperation instead of a "dog-eat-dog" one... Our only choices are "a (socialist-communist) world of cooperation" or a "dog-eat-dog" one? Positively, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:48:21 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest David: >Did anyone else notice the odd typographic convention, which seems to be >used only in ROAD and EMERALD CITY, where contractions include a space - >e.g., would n't, have n't, etc? I've checked and it's not used in the >earlier books, nor in PATCHWORK GIRL, though I haven't checked later >books for it. Anybody know if this was a popular convention in 1909-10, >or if it was some typesetter at R&L's idiosyncrasy? I too have wondered about this. It's odd but it's logical. The separation of the contraction only applies to instances in which the verb maintains its distinct character (as in David's examples). Don't and can't, for example, appear in _Road_ as one word, because do n't and can n't would bear no resemble to what is actually spoken. (Incidentally: tsk, tsk! R&B, not R&L!) I think Bob Sparks is right: we shouldn't be judging this book solely on the critical standards of adults, though it is true that the best children's literature holds up to critical scrutiny from every angle. I remember enjoying _Road_ immensely when I was little, and I enjoyed the whole thing, not just the "adventure" passages of the first half. One thing we might keep in mind before we condemn the plotless sections of the book out of hand: the readers of Baum's day were more conditioned to these long descriptive passages than the readers of today's page-turners. The Realist novel of the nineteenth century routinely included lengthy static passages that established the social reality of the fiction through elaborately detailed descriptions. In Balzac's _Pere Goriot_, for instance, the plot doesn't even begin to move until you have gottten through sixty pages describing the layout and furnishings of Madame Vauquier's boarding house, the rents charged for each apartment, the character and background of every one of the tenants, the food they typically eat, and so on. The Realist technique of exhaustive descriptions goes right up into the first decade of the twentieth century; Thomas Mann's _Buddenbrooks_ is a good example from this period. _The Road to Oz_ is certainly anything but a Realist novel, but I think what Baum is doing here--rather daringly--is to transport the realist descriptive technique to a fantasy narrative, and thereby to give the fantasy world the kind of grounding in minute detail that the Realist novel provided. Who was there, what they wore, where they came from, what they ate, where they sat at the table, what kind of music they heard and danced to: these are all questions that readers of Realist fiction expected to see answered. In the last third of _Road_, Baum makes Oz almost as tangible and as fully imagined as Balzac's Paris. For me, a kid who didn't grow up on Indiana Jones and Saturday morning cartoons, the long descriptions weren't a problem at all; they just made Oz seem more real. Name that tune: Does anyone know the source of that little snatch of music on the dedication page? What makes it particularly intriguing is the tempo marking "L'istesso tempo," which indicates that this is the beginning of an interlude that is to be played at the same tempo as the preceding material. On the other hand, given the extraordinary wittiness and sophistication of Neill's illustrations for this book, I think it is altogether possible that these two bars of music aren't a real quotation at all, and the tempo marking refers to a preceding passage that doesn't even exist. Speaking of sophistication, I'm much amusing at the frontispiece ("Calling on Jack Pumpkinhead"), which depicts Jack's pumpkin cottage as fully equipped for the modern age with a telephone and electrical wiring. Am I right in thinking that the four wires mean that he has *two* circuits in that little cottage? Another thing that struck me on this latest reading: the interior of Ozma's palace ("In the Royal Palace of Oz," p. 209 of the R&B and BoW editions) is a dead ringer for the Great Hall at Breakers, the Vanderbild estate at Newport, R.I. The huge ornamental fireplace between two-story Corinthian pilasters, the high arched doorways, the second-floor balconies with ironwork railings: it's all there. For that matter, the illustration of the exterior of Ozma's palace (p. 193) also has some resemblance to rear elevation of Breakers, particularly in the second-floor loggias. On the other hand, the Vanderbilt place doesn't have a great staircase, let alone a staircase adorned with likenesses of Billina, Eureka, Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman. (Incidentally, what character is depicted in the statue in the right foreground, the man with the cane and the birds circling his head?) Doug & Lori: A word of caution about reading the Thompson books. They need to be read in order of publication. Like Baum, she occasionally drops details that can spoil the endings of earlier books if you haven't read them yet. In _Lost King_, for example, she gives away the very touching surprise ending of _Kabumpo_. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:47:13 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-22/23-97 Ruth: I agree with your comments regarding Neill's drawings in _Road to Oz_, some of his finest work! Bob Spark: While _Road to Oz_ is certainly far from my favorite FF book, I enjoyed it. Actually, I've never read an Oz book I didn't like . . . at least to some degree. :-) Dick ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:57:29 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Oz Web Ring X-Mail-Server: Mnematics Incorporated - info (914)359-4546 Low-cost, World-Wide Internet Access - Online since 1983 http://www.mne.com http://www.globenet.net Hi, I manage the Wonderful Land of Oz web page (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075/). I have started a web ring of Oz web pages. A web ring is a group of pages, each with some special code that links them to a few other web pages. For a full explanation, you can go to http://www.webring.org. I would like to invite you to join the Oz web ring. To do so, please go to http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;addform Thanks -- David Levitan ben.levitan@mne.net ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:35:33 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Four digests in a row! Here goes... Astounding grasp of the obvious: Yes, Coronado is closer to San Diego that Asilomar, although the drive is quite pleasant (although you may want to pace that out over a couple days). I would love to stay at Monterrey, so I'll try and make it to Winkies next year, to meet such luminaries as David Hulan and Bear, and renew my acquaintance with Dave. Scott Piehler: The apple trees are not entirely MGM. The Fighting Trees appear in the book, although they have no apples as far as we know and they were in a different part of Oz. I get the impression that MGM's trees may not have bothered our friends had they simply passed by, although the book trees were, shall we say, "vigorous" in their defense of the forest. JoDel: Someone made the same comment about _Road_ in a BUGLE review. That is, once we get to Oz, the story is for all intents and purposes over. This event usually happens when we reach the Emerald City near the last chapter. In this case, the "end" was extended quite a bit. Bear: I hereby give Baum the "Bill Gates" award, for his: "Well, this book may be good, but the NEXT version upgrade (I mean story) will be even better!" Nitpick for Bear: The cities visited in _RTO_ (Did Baum found the Rent To Own stores?) are not in Oz, so the TIn Woodman's comment is still valid, although ultimately false, as we learn from later authors. Of course, as David Hulan has pointed out, many of the "cities" in Oz are very small, both in size and population, so EC may be the only actual "city", at least by our standards. Doug/Lori: THe Scoodlers (at least the Queen, IIRC) returns in a non-FF book. Her name, according to Chris Dulabone, is Dagmar. The mightiest apple tree of them all: IT has to be the magic apple tree in _Enchanted Apples_, a non-FF graphic novel by Eric Shanower. Scott: No, I believe _Rinkitink_ ends in Pingaree, just after his people have found him and compel him to return home. As for Polychrome, I claim that the same conspiracy that keeps us of the outer world believing in Ozma as a little girl also applies to Polychrome. If you only knew what I knew... More Scott: _Tin Woodman_, like _Road_, i just a weak story. The part with Mrs. Yoop is entertaining, but that's about the only exciting thing going on. Not that I'm lamenting for hordes of IE's of course (in this story, there was only one), but this story was just a dud. Kiex: Your comment sounds familiar. Certainly, many of the things Button-Bright responds to almost require an honest "Don't know", such as when Dorothy asked him what's going to become of him. Does anybody know the answer to that question? I've always felt that Button-Bright simply does not care to assert himself, and is very easygoing. He just accepts things as they happen and doesn't try to analyze it to death, unlike yours truly :-) David: I seem to remember Baum mentioning a town near the Tin Woodman's castle in _Land_, but we do not visit it, and we haven't heard a peep from it. Overall though, Baum's Oz, outside of EC, is quite rural. JelliaJamb@aol.com: Have any AOLers tried to mail her? I'll try from my CompuServe account and my office account if need be. Polychrome: As a fariy who has lived for "thousands of years" (from _TIK-TOK_), she can probably be any age she wishes. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:03:02 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 7/21 Digest, Steve Teller echoes the general opinion when he says, I too agree -- never trust a person with a beard. :-) Steve also expresses uncertainty as to the dates of the 1998 Munchkin Convention. The Munchkins usually meet the first full weekend in August. Keeping to this schedule will make next year's Munchkin Con run from Friday, 8/7/98 to Sunday, 8/9/98. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:22:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-97 Bear writes: "Most of you SF'ers were agreeing that most of it is sci-fi lately." In SF circles there is [Theodore] Sturgeon's Law: "90% of science fiction is crap--but so is 90% of everything." Of course most of what is presented in all the media is most very good, but it is the hope of finding that good 10% that keeps SF fans going. (Does Sturgeon's law apply to Oz?) Bob Sparks mentions the in FLYING GIRL AND HER CHUM that "Some fatuous ass [is always] maling some statement about 'a woman's place.'" However Baum's narrative shows that these statements *are* fatuous. Orissa is an extremely competant person, and Sybil's sense of the ridiculous makes her an admirable companion. David Hulan, yes, the 1998 SF Worldcon, BucConeer, will be held August 5-9, not Labor Day Weekend. You can see its Home page . They do have a e-mail mailing list. I do not dislike TIN WOODMAN OF OZ, but it was the only Baum Oz book my father did not have and so I did not read it until I was 19. Actually I had seen the Little Golden Book abridgement, but it left out the entire Nimee Amee plot. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Jul 97 13:13:04 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ PLOTS: David Hulan wrote: >_Patchwork Girl_ has a serious central problem (break the petrifaction >spell on Unk Nunkie and Margalotte), but is flawed by the fact that the >protagonist's efforts are irrelevant to the solution. But I'd say only slightly flawed...I still think it's one of the best in the series! >Much the same is >true of _Glinda_. (The war between the Skeezers and Flatheads goes ahead >despite Ozma's intervention, though nothing serious happens because the >Su-dic transforms Coo-ee-oh and then accidentally overturns his pot of >poison.) One could argue that the true hero of _Glinda_ is Ervic...( At last! Baum gives us a strong male character! :) ) I do have problems w/ _Glinda_, namely Ozma's reversion to "idiot" mode, *and* her acquiring an out-of-character level of arrogance that forces poor Glinda into the role of Cassandra. But this book is of course saved for me by the debut of the Adepts! >_Wizard_, _Land_, and _Tik-Tok_ have real - though not terribly >important - problems posed... The search for the rightful ruler of Oz wasn't terribly important??? >Finally, there's _Scarecrow_, which wouldn't rate much higher >than _Road_ based on the first halves of both books (which aren't that >dissimilar), but which is redeemed because the Jinxland section is a >great deal more interesting than the birthday party. I disagree -- I think Trot and Cap'n Bill's adventures were *far* more interesting than Dorothy et. al's in _Road_...(And I love the Ork!) OZMA MEETS JOE MCCARTHY???: Christine R. Gray wrote: >Can anyone on the list help with this? My mother said that the Pratt >LIbrary in Baltimore in the early 1930s would not allow children to read >the Wizard of Oz. Does anyone one know what the library might have found >objectionable about the book? There are various reasons why Oz books have been banned over the years -- One being the assertion that Ozma is a commie pinko, but more commonly the books have been banned (mainly in the South) for so-called "Religious" reasons. The "arguments" (if one can diginify them with such a term) being as follows: 1. There are good witches in Oz, but the critics assert that witches are by definition satan-worshippers -- Therefore, Oz preaches satanism, QED. 2. Ozma, Glinda, Ann Soforth, et al. are strong-minded women who go out and get things done, but it is insisted by the Oz-haters that A WOMAN'S PLACE IS IN THE HOME!!! Therefore Oz is "feminazi" tract, QED. 3. Animals in Oz exhbit human intellegence, but the Oz-haters say that only man can think, can talk, etc., etc. Therefore Oz commits unforgivable heresy, QED. Just so there's no doubt, my "QED"'s in the above are all meant to be ironic... There have been other grounds for censoring Oz, including the assertion that *ALL* fantasy/fairy tales warp the minds of children, and then there was Dorothy Dodd of the Florida State Library who called the Oz books "poorly written, untrue to life..., foolishly sentimental and consequently unwholesome for the children in your community." The history of Oz censorship is covered in greater detail in the Baum bio, _L. Frank Baum, Royal Historian of Oz_. ME TRYING TO AVOID POLITICAL DEBATES AND FAILING: Bear wrote: >Our only choices are "a (socialist-communist) world of cooperation" or a >"dog-eat-dog" one? I didn't say that. My point was: Is a system of cooperation, as espoused by Ozma, necessarily "communist", or otherwise irreconcilable with capitalism? OZ WEB RING: I think this may be a good idea...There is already a _Red Dwarf_ web ring and it is a good organizer of related web pages as far as I can see. I have already submitted my page... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 25, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:33:23 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Magic: I believe that Baum, despite his statements about magic not working in civilized countries, meant that magic could either "reach in to" or "reach out of" those places, it just couldn't function solely in civilized lands. The love magnet proves that false, but it may be that most magic cannot work here. This is kind of like the transporter in "Star Trek". In the original, you could only transport from a transporter or to a transporter. In the later series, the transporter could move you from point A to point B without either one actually being the transporter pad. Trivia: Name the only episode where Kirk and Spock went from one transporter pad directly to another transporter pad. Leslie: Welcome to the digest! I'm glad that you found us (and the books). _Patchwork Girl_ is generally rated very high amongst the digesters. By the way, if you like the Glass Cat so much, ask David Hulan about his own Oz book. Road to Oz: Now that this is the BCF, here's a poser. Has anybody ever come up with an explanation as to how Button-Bright got to that lonely spot on the road? This book happens before the Magic Umbrella, so there must be some other answer. Heresy: (I banish the to the pits of inconsistency!) As far as this goes, I have a pretty tolerant (dare I say liberal?) standard. It's not so much how they do it, it's what they do. For me, the highest mark is textual consistency with the FF, plus few generic assumptions, which is why I consider _Sir Harold_ to be heretical, although David does not. Christine: I do not know if this person is a member of the digest, so I'll echo this here and to her personally. The reason may have been that some people felt that the book glorified witchcraft by having two "good" witches, and that this somehow supported satanism. IMHO, this is a completely ridiculous attitude, and if you read the book, you will find NOTHING supporting black magic, the devil, or anything like that. However, some people are very rigid, and they may have thought so without taking the time to find out. THe 30's sound a little early for this hysteris (which, I believe, had its heyday in the 40's and 50's), but it's possible. Mike: That stuff about no money, etc. was either from _Emerald City_ or _Road_. By the time of the THompson administration, though, Oz was quite commercial, with an economy that seemed largely based on the barter system. Dave: Yes, the search for the "true" ruler is quite important, but that does not appear until almost the tail end of the story, so it can't really be considered a central problem. Web Ring: I'll submit my page as well. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:37:30 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-97 Gordon - I think the figure you asked about is, simply, the Wizard. The birds must be real birds, who like sitting on his statue. Gili ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 7/24 Digest, Gordon Birrell asks, Perhaps it is the tempo that is the important thing. The dedication is "To My First Grandson / Joslyn Stanton Baum". The first grandson was probably the beginning of a new generation of Baums which would carry on "the same tempo as the preceding material." Gordon also asks who is depicted as the statue of the man with a cane outside Ozma's palace. I think the statue is meant to be the Wizard, who is drawn in both _Road_ and _DotWiz_ with a top hat and cane. Additionally, the shape at the statue's feet may be a carpetbag, such as the Wizard carried in _DotWiz_. Incidentally, my autographed copy of Melody Grandy's _Disenchanted Princess_ arrived this week and it is one beautiful book. If any Digesters have not taken advantage of her generous offer posted in the Digest, I recommend that you do so posthaste. Just $15. Write to Melody Keller, 21 Hazelwood Rd., Asheville, NC 28806-3763. (This has been an unsolicited endorsement.) Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:31:49 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-97 John K.: >Indeed, I don't believe there are any towns in Oz apart from the E.C. >in _any_ of the books, if one excludes isolated princedoms and >settlements of various eccentric races, beings, and characters. That, of course, excludes most of Oz, but I guess if you mean that there isn't a record of another town or village inhabited by the same kind of people who make up the majority of the population of the EC, without a local ruler of some sort, I can't think of a counter-example in the FF. I'm reasonably sure none is visited, but not sure that there aren't references to one or more. (There are references to several such in GLASS CAT, though, and probably in other non-FF books.) Bob: Apparently only certain kinds of magic don't work in America. The Love Magnet seems to be the only magical _device_ that works here, if you confine yourself to the Baum Oz books, though if you extend it to the other Baum books that are definitely connected with Oz you have others - Button-Bright's umbrella and the Great Elixir (which I think can be considered a "device" - anyhow, a material entity with magical properties), at least, and there's _something_ that lets Santa Claus cover the whole world in one night. And magical devices that work at a distance, like the Magic Belt and Magic Picture and Great Book of Records, seem to work on things in America as long as the user is in Oz. But Glinda seems quite certain that the Magic Belt would not work here, or the silver shoes, and Dorothy is sure that Tik-Tok wouldn't work here either. In other Baum works, though, and in Oz books by other authors, there's plenty of magic working in America. Leslie: You should be able to get all the Baum Oz books at any fairly large bookstore (a Borders or Barnes & Noble or SuperCrown, or a major independent); they're in print in Del Rey paperbacks. You have to look for them in the Science Fiction racks, though. And if the Glass Cat is your favorite character, then you should by all means pick up a copy of THE GLASS CAT OF OZ - either off the rack at Borders, or by ordering it from Books of Wonder. (This is, of course, a shameless self-promotion, since I wrote it. But it's gotten good reviews in general.) Christine: The Oz books were never popular with librarians, for a number of reasons. (One was that the kids checked them out so much that they had to be replaced often.) Because of that, most libraries didn't have them on their shelves. But I've never heard of a library that had a copy but wouldn't let it circulate to children. These days there are some people who object to WIZARD because of the presence of good witches in it, but they haven't been very successful in their attempts to get it out of school libraries. Scott H.: Baum - writing from an omniscient POV - says that Shaggy thought Polly meant "beau", so I feel that he must have thought she was old enough to have one. Although Shaggy's suggestion that she take him as a replacement was almost certainly meant in jest. (Unless, of course, you accept Laumer's theory on the subject, which I don't.) _Tin Woodman_ has some interesting stuff in it - it has the most complete version of Baum's "origin story" for Oz, the strongest characterization of Ozma (even though she's on-stage for only a couple of chapters), and probably the most development of the characters of the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman. But as a story it has a lot of flaws. Gordon: R&B, of course. Slip of the mind. Thanks for calling that snatch of music to my attention; I'd never even noticed it before. I'd guess that if it's anything, it's from some sort of lullaby, in the context of the picture. On the other hand, all those 16th notes indicate something rather more lively than the usual lullaby, so who knows? (I don't have anything to play it on, and my pitch isn't good enough to take a good guess at the tune without an instrument.) I imagine that the top-hatted statue with the birds circling its head would be the Wizard; he's the only Oz character we've met up to this point who wears a top-hat, anyhow (as Neill usually draws him). Of course, it may be someone Neill just made up, but all the other statues represent characters we've met. Dick: I agree that I've never read an FF Oz book that I didn't enjoy to some degree, even _Wonder City_ and _Scalawagons_. (I can't say that I've never read an Oz book that I didn't enjoy to some degree; there are a couple of later non-FF books that are pretty bad.) Tyler: Only one IE in _Tin Woodman_? I assume you mean the Loons, but I'd consider the Swynes to be an IE, and really the dragons Woot encounters and Tommy Kwikstep as well. Even the Hip-po-gy-raf only has the function of getting the group past a barrier that Baum put there in the first place. Steve: Actually, Sturgeon said "crud," not "crap." But the intention is the same. Dave: I agree that PATCHWORK GIRL is one of the best in the series - in fact, if Ojo had only been allowed to solve the problem himself, it might be my overall favorite. As it is, it falls below LOST PRINCESS, RINKITINK, and OZMA in my estimation. (As well as WISHING HORSE, SPEEDY, and MERRY-GO-ROUND, by later authors.) The central problem of LAND wasn't the search for the true ruler of Oz. That was something that came up near the end of the book; before that we didn't even know that there _was_ a true ruler of Oz. LAND, in fact, doesn't really have a central problem - in the first part of the book it's for Tip to get away from Mombi, then there's a period of wandering with no goal at all, then there's trying to oust Jinjur - the nearest thing to a central goal the book has - and finally, on page 241 of 287, we learn that there's a rightful ruler of Oz who has been concealed. I like the Ork better than Toto, for sure (who's the closest equivalent in ROAD to the Ork in SCARECROW - otherwise Cap'n Bill, Trot, and Button-Bright are a reasonable match for Shaggy, Dorothy, and Button-Bright), but Trot and Cap'n Bill's adventures in the first part of SCARECROW don't seem that much more interesting to me than those of Dorothy and the shaggy man in the first part of ROAD. YMMV. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:53:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-97 The L. Frank Baum Festival in Aberdeen S.D. is only two weeks away. Nancy Koupal is going to speak on Friday night, and read from "Our Landlady" on Saturday. There will also be an original play, "Prelude to Oz," and many speakers on various aspects of Baum's Dakota days. If Earl Abbe is correct that the 1998 Munchkin convention will be August 7-9 then it will overlap the World Science Convention in Baltimore August 5-9. C'est la vie! (Actually they are only about an hour away by train, but the Radisson is not near downtown Wilmington. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:11:23 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest David: Very good points on the strengths and deficiencies of the plotting in the Baum 14. I agree with Dave that _Glinda_ makes somewhat better sense if one takes Ervic as the heroic questor, but Ervic doesn't even appear until the second half of the book. Aren't we all jumping the gun on _Tin Woodman_? How about if we hold off detailed discussion of this very problematic book until its turn as BCF? Joyce: Your comments on _Road_ were, as usual, very incisive. There does seem to be a strong element of xenophobia in the book, not only in the travelers' reactions to Foxville and Dunkiton but also in the phobic attitudes of the foxes and donkeys to each other's worlds. What I find particularly interesting and unusual here is the fear that the foreign culture will *like* you so much that they will try to make you over into their own image, literally change your head to make you one of their own. Could this be a distinctly American form of xenophobia? I.e., other countries are worried about cultural invasion and having foreign values forced upon them by an essentially hostile superpower; Americans fear they will be *loved* so much that they will lose their cultural identity. Taking that thought a little further: the fear of being incorporated (in the root sense of that word) into a foreign culture reaches a nightmarish climax in the Scoodlers episode, where the inhabitants literally intend to incorporate the travelers by ingesting them. It would be interesting sometime to catalog the various kinds of dangers that the heroes and heroines of Oz books encounter (enslavement, imprisonment, enchantment, transformation, etc.). I'd thought about this earlier when Tyler made enslavement the prototypical danger in his generic Oz plot. Are the dangers in Thompson's books generally more benign than in Baum's? --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:13:48 -0700 From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Ozzy Digesters: I came across an "Ozzy" reference today that I thought I would share with you. In today's New York Times - The Living Arts section, pg.B18 there is a review for the new film "Air Force One". In this review was the following, and I quote: "Trivia note: The film's huge interior set, which imagines Air Force One right down to those hand towels, was build on the nation's largest sound stage. It once housed the Yellow Brick Road to Oz." Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:01:10 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls John >If I, for one, should quit my present job, it will be out of nothing more, less or other than sheer disgust at its general uselessness. If this is what you think of your job, you certainly have my sympathy. I don't understand why you would continue to do it? Bob - I'm not quite that "senior." However, I will attest that by comparison between today and that time, civilization has made tremendous technical advances. However, advances in the field of ethics are mixed. Animals, children, women, and minorities are generally treated better. But the general moral tone has gone way down hill. There is less respect for life, more extreme violence, more crime in general, less respect for police, more dishonesty, more willingness to tolerate "bad" behavior in others, etc. Nowhere is this more evident than in the man we have elected as our president. Gordon - Jack Pumpkinhead >Am I right in thinking that the four wires mean that he has *two* circuits in that little cottage? No, the four wires mean he has 220 volts for his clothes drier. :) Stephen - Sturgeon's Law may apply to Oz but I don't even want to consider it. There is a difference between other people's crap and OUR crap. Dave >My point was: Is a system of cooperation, as espoused by Ozma, necessarily "communist", or otherwise irreconcilable with capitalism? Heavens no! As long as the "cooperation" is not ordered by the state. The cooperation of free men is an integral part of capitalism. Capitalistically, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:04:13 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave <"belgrave@teleport.com"@teleport.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Thanks to all that sent in convention reports. So where EXACTLY will the 2000 con be held? Will this be a combination of all three conventions in one place for that year, or will this be in addition to? Mike... What an great idea Baruch had with the powder of life!! Some of us have great ideas but just don't have the talent to express them on paper. Sounds like he will be writing things in the future for us though huh? I hope so with that imagination. Mike again... What is the search engine you are using to find peoples names in the books? Is this a shareware program? I'd like to have a copy. Strange the things that occupy ones time huh? Dave I'm still waiting on info about an Ozzy Digest Badge. Were you going to produce these? If not I may be willing to venture in this area. How many of you would like one or two dozen of these? Barbara DeJohn... How's the t-shirt plans coming? I'm still counting on one for me. RTO... In the Musicker chapter it is said "I'm accustomed only to the music of the spheres". What exactly is music of the spheres? I just played a computer game that also had the music of the spheres in it. In the Facing the Scoodlers chapter, the pic of the scoodler shows his toes pointing up but the description of them says "toes curled down like a bird's". Hmmmmmmm I just have the Del Rey books and the pics are horrible. They are very hard to make out. In the Tik-Tok and Billina chapter, if they crossed the Deadly Desert and just passed the Truth Pond and are heading for the Emerald City then how are they traveling in a northwest direction? Looks northeast to me. In the Princess Ozma of Oz chapter, it says the Scarecrow went to the Munchkin Country for straw. Wouldn't you have thought the straw would have grown where everything was yellow, like the Winkie Country? Do we hear more about Chick the Cherub in later books? I'm so grateful when all of you are so careful not to tell what future books are about in such detail that it gives some of the story line away. Do we ever hear the Woggle-Bug's "Ode to Ozma" in any story? Do we know what the love story was that the Tin Woodman tells for Ozma? Wonder why the Queen of the Field Mice wasn't invited to the party. I think the Musicker should have been invited to the party. Maybe Ozma could have done some magic and made the notes he played not be so annoying to others. I just think it wasn't a very good example to teach children. Just because he was different and maybe a little annoying he couldn't go. Maybe he would have sat quietly in a corner and enjoyed the festivities. Or maybe just being around Ozma could have made his music sound soothing and comforting. Many a swan started as ducks. (figuratively speaking of course) I have another map problem in _Emerald City of Oz_ but I'll wait till we get there for that one. Till next time..... Barb B ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:58:46 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-97 LESLIE: Welcome to OZ! _______________________ CHRISTINE GRAY's comments about Oz window screen painting, makes me think that an article for the Bugle on Oz folk art might be nice. Certainly much attention has been paid to commercial Oz products, but much less so to folk art. And Baum himself was a wonderful craftsman, and created some Oz pieces. Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Ozzy Digest: Query Okay, folks, I'm in the middle now of putting some of the finishing touches (okay, more like sanding off the biggest splinters) on version 1.2 of my Wizard of Oz FAQ. Things are going well, but there are a few details I may need help with, and I hope you all can be of assistance. So, I'd like to know, for right now: 1. The address and any other contact information for Tams-Whitmark, which currently holds the rights for amateur musical theater productions of "The Wizard of Oz," with the MGM music. 2. Are there any Oz-related lesson plans out there for teachers (not necessarily on the Internet, 'though some of those would be good, too)? --Eric "That's all for today, maybe more dumb questions later" Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:29:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-97 Morrow and Oz: I'd write them a letter of thanks, only I'd have to wait and address it to Morrow... David: I agree; I see nothing heretical about having characters do something that I will (or can) never do. In fact, that's about the only way I get some experiences in life, by having my characters have them... What's so terrible about Ozma saying >>"...We have no rich, and no poor: for what one wishes the >>others all try to give him, in order to make him happy, and no one in all >>Oz cares to have more than he can use." ? For that matter, what's wrong with communism at all, except when it's misused or taken too literally? (That comment may black list me on the Digest, AOL, or the Internet for weeks, but it's what I mean. I like the idea of communism...in theory, at least...) Realism in Fantasy: I, too, find it helps me grasp the layout of the lands better. Oz web rings: They sound almost as good to me as Oz ring webs! --Jeremy and KKKKKIIIIIIIEEEEEEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!! ! Jeremy: What was that about? KIEX: No comment. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 17:04:12 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Gordon wrote: >Am I right in thinking that the four wires mean >that he has *two* circuits in that little cottage? No! That's his TCP/IP connection! :) :) :) Jellia: His Internet cable for all you non-hackers unlike Dave. :) Er, um, what does "IE" mean again? (I'd better add it to the abbreviations list in the Ozzy Digest FAQ.) BTW, I still would like to find someone in Southern California who wants to see _Contact_ with me... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 26 - 28, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:02:50 -0200 From: amyjones@MindSpring.COM (Amy Jones) Subject: for Ozzy Digest Barb B: Polychrome mentions "the music of the spheres." I heard this phrase first in the church hymn, "This is my Father's World" which has the following as its first line: "This is my Father's World, and to my listening ears all nature sings, and round me rings the music of the spheres." However, this hymn was not set to music until 1915, which was after "Road to Oz" was published. From the "Dictionary of Classical, Biblical, and Literary Allusions": "Pythagoras, in his search for universal harmonies, established that all solids in motion emit musical tones, and applying this law to the planets, stated that their collective tones constituted the 'music of the spheres.' This phrase suggests a harmony inherent in the heavens, but imperceptible to man." Amy Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:49:36 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 I had a stupid accident while preparing dinner tonight, and took a chunk out of my left middle finger with a potato peeler. So I'm typing one-handed, and will therefore be far more terse than usual. Tyler: The heyday of the satanic-witch theory is the '80s and '90s, not the '40s and '50s. In the '40s and '50s the demons were the (truly nasty) fascists and commies; I don't remember any anti-witch agitation at all. Gordon: I don't think Ervic makes a very good heroic quester in GLINDA. His main function is to get the Adepts de-transformed, and while this is a worthy act, it has little if any effect on the main plot of the book. Bear: >>Dave >My point was: Is a system of cooperation, as espoused by Ozma, >>necessarily "communist", or otherwise irreconcilable with capitalism? >Heavens no! As long as the "cooperation" is not ordered by the state. The >cooperation of free men is an integral part of capitalism. Although when they try to do it in the form of a labor union it's pretty solidly opposed by most capitalists... Barbara B.: The exact site of the 2000 convention hasn't been decided yet, pending negotiations with IU. The music of the spheres originally meant the music that was made by the celestial spheres of a Ptolemaic universe rubbing together as they rotated. Later, it became synonymous with Outstanding Music. Baum also said the Scoodlers' feet looked like an inverted T, which would imply up-curling toes. I think Neill took his cue from that line. Baum confused east and west a lot. Chick doesn't appear in any more Oz books; he's a main character in JOHN DOUGH AND THE CHERUB, which I think you can get from Dover. Baum's third-best non-Oz book, imho (after SKY ISLAND and QUEEN ZIXI OF IX). Dsve: IE=Irrelevant Episode - something that happens to fill pages but that doesn't advance the main thread of the plot, other than getting the protagonist(s) past it. I hope my finger feels better tomorrow. This has been frustrating... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:11:45 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 Bear, Surprisingly, given my political orientation, I find very little to disagree with in your dissertation on values. One thing: > Nowhere is this more evident than in the man we have elected > as our president. The word "nowhere". I suppose that's what makes horse races, though. A difference of opinion. Another disagreement: > No, the four wires mean he has 220 volts for his clothes drier. :) > As a retired telephone man (I believe that you have said you are also), I am much more familiar with DC, but I believe that 220 only requires 3 wires. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:17:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 i sent out 2 listees disks of oz stuff i had one said she was gonna put it on her page ive not heard back that either got it and ive lost their ids one was selena i know so if you read this and u got it let me know what u think and where your web page is ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:18:52 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff David: You talked about some of the Baum books not fulfilling "the quest." I agree with you 100 %. The ones that I've liked the best so far is OZMA OF OZ. Actually, in WIZARD, Dorothy does complete her quest and only misses her reward of going home because Toto chases a cat. The book's second quest is to go find Glinda and find a way home that way. Regarding- THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ- If Baum had changed the ending to- SPOILER ALERT ************ the wizard gathers 4 of the 5 items that Ojo collected on his quest and adds in, say, a porcelin yellow butterfly wing sent from Glinda. He mixes them up and voila! He has the andidote to the petrification spell. This would have validated Ojo's quest instead of using none of his items and having Glinda give the Wizard the means to wipe the spell out with magic words. If that one paragraph were different, this would be my favorite Oz book. In my little mind :-)...I have convinced myself that the book ended the way I described above!!!! Baum's books were of not traditional fairy stories of course. If they were then PATCHWORK GIRL would have violated the traditional framework of -- hero goes on important quest- hero has animal or magical helper(s) hero fullfills quest him/herself with the assistance of his/her helpers. Patchwork has hero go on important quest- hero has animal/mystical helpers hero fails in his quest. Magical helper solves everything w/o the hero. I am currently reading THE SCARECROW OF OZ and it is quite good so far. Excellent characterizations of the Ork, Cap'n Bill and Trot. Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:00:34 +0300 (IDT) From: Gili Bar-Hillel Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 Barbara B.- I am sure you will have many interesting answeers to your question about the music of the spheres, because so many of the readers of the digest are very knowledgeable about literature as well as astronomy. All that I know is that the music of the spheres is supposed to be the music that the stars make, and is a harmony that pulses through the whole world. It occurs in many stories, most noticeable Madeline L'Engles Time series (A Wrinkle in Time, A Wind in the Door, A Swiftly Tilting Planet - they go downhill from there), but I don't know what the source for this belief is. |\ _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Gili Bar-Hillel, |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' gili@scso.com '---''(_/--' `-'\_) http://www.scso.com/~gili ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 08:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 7/25 Digest, Jeremy and KIEX ask, As always, the Devil is in the details, in the particular implementation. The gentle American Shaker communities were more truly communist than anything in eastern Europe or Asia, but had quite different results on the lives of their citizens. But then, the Shakers were inspired by their religion. That may be the major flaw of communism -- it can only be sustained through religious fervor. Speaking of realpolitik, Gordon Birrell's directing our attention to the statue of the Wizard (p.193, _Road_) has provoked a comment from my informant. That *is* a carpetbag displayed at the statue's feet, and therein lies a tale. At Glinda's suggestion the statue was commissioned to commemorate Oscar Diggs' return to Oz. Also at her suggestion, the statue was made to show the Wizard just as he appeared on his return, carpetbag and all. This was to be in the spirit of the amusing rescued boy fountain figure in Denmark, which the Oz notables had all seen in the Magic Picture. Privately, however, Glinda told Oscar that the statue was to remind him how he came back with little more than a carpetbag -- and how he would leave in just the same way, if he did not fit into the role generously being offered. Earl Abbe (& Informant) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:25:57 -0400 From: drdave@discoveryonline.com (drdave) Subject: OZ Dear Dave; I would like to subscribe to the Ozzy Digest. Please email me to inform me exactly what I have to do. I am interested in all information related to the Wizard of Oz. For my first question for you and the net: I would like to know which Oz festival is better to attend. I can only attend one, which do you suggest, Indiana in September or the one in Kansas in October. Has anyone been to either one, can anyone tell me which may be the better of the two. Are there other things to visit and do in or around the towns where the OZ festivals will be in. I will eventually attend all the festivals, however, for my first one I would like to go to the one most popular and most informative for a true Wizard of Oz fan. Thank you very much, I will be waiting to hear from you soon. Respectfully in Ozma, David M. Okinaga drdave@discoveryonline.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 13:35:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "W. H. Baldwin" Subject: For Oz Digest X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Is it just me, or has anyone else been enjoying the Digest a lot more lately? Not only are there some newcomers, but the discussions seem more informative and easy to understand. Also, there have been some interesting side-issues opened up recently. One of these is the whole socialism/communism vs. capitalism topic. The arguments here put me in mind of people debating about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and they are a perfect example of how big establishments from little concepts grow. Actually, the ideas of "ownership" and "money" are human concepts, and not even of humanity in general at that, but more the creation of Western European man if I understand it correctly (I am not, of course, a historian). The universe smiles at us for thinking we can "own" any part of it, and those with any feeling for semantics will smile as well. Capitalism is little more than sublimated savagery; John Kennedy of the Digest described it very well recently and more succinctly than I could. However, we might as well enjoy it while it's here, as it is now in its heyday worldwide. And one must grudgingly admit that it does produce admirable toys for those fortunates who can afford them, even while forcing many (through economic pressures) to work at tasks they loathe because they can perform no other to earn tokens. It will only be after it has reigned supreme for a while (and from the looks of it, it's going to be a _long_ while) that the essential shallowness and injustice of it will become obvious to all and the grumbling will again reassert itself. I don't anticipate being around for the denouement. Bear! Your comment about THEIR crap and OUR crap was the funniest bit of irony I've read in a long time! W. Baldwin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:57:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 Bear: Please keep the political comments down. Not to criticize, but I've been silent long enough. Okay, now that my little outburst is over, on to Oz. The last straw? Yes, the Scarecrow would go to the Munchkin Country for straw, since that is where he was ... made, and perhaps he likes that straw better--more homey... That's it for today (not much of a posting on my part--began with a criticism and ended with an incoherency. Business as usual for me... --Jeremy KIEX: @#**&($#!! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 21:55:51 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz David and John K: I almost thought of the Yips as a town or village made up of basic humans, but changed my mind when I realized that the Yip country is not really an urban area. It's more like a farm settlement. Even Jinxland is not really a city. The closest example in Baum is probably the city of the Skeezers. It's not until THompson that we get to see a large number of pure-human settlements ("Raw meat" in some fantasy game campaigns). David: I don't know if I'd classify the Swynes and Tommy Kwikstep as IE's. They're simple encounters, much like the shepherd in _Lost Princess_ or the farmer in _Wizard_. In general, I think of IE's as communities of unusual people. However, I'll support Gordon's suggestion and leave off this book until it gets it's turn as the BCF. Road needs a fair shake, too. Gordon: That would be an interesting task. I can't do it, though. TOo many things on my plate already. Not that I'm actaully working on them, of course, but someday. Barbara: East and West have been mixed up pretty well in the Oz canon. March Laumer has an incredibly interesting explanation for this, but in this case, I don't think there needs to be an Oz-as-history explanation for this. IMHO, the Oz-as-literature explanation is sufficient. That is, the authors and/or publishers simply made a mistake. There is more than enough evidence to state quite catagorically that the Winkie Country (and hence the Truth Pond) is in the west. I'd imagine the Scarecrow prefers the homegrown stuff, since he hailed from the Munchkin Country originally. Also, it seems to me that the color scheme is not absolute, although Neill had it so. Still, one would assume that Winkie straw would be the best. Besides Chick's debut in _John Dough and the Cherub_ and a brief appearance in _Road_, that's all we hear from the incubator baby, although that personage has long since been in the Public Domain. I eagerly await your map problem. Have you read Melody's essay on the Emerald City and the Royal Palace? Dave: IE is an Irrelevant Episode. In general, it describes a visit to a community of unusual people who, more often than not, want to make you into a slave or turn into a clone of themselves. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:01:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-23-97 Jodel wrote:>>Toto's long-awaited return, while satisfying to his fans, >does not seem tocount for much here. Which is probably just as well, since >is role in Wizard was mostly to get in Dorothy's way. No way! Toto plays a major role in WIZARD by supplying motivation for Dorothy to slap the Lion (who threatens the doggie). This, in turn, allows Baum to reveal the Lion's cowardice to us. It's Toto who is responsible for revealing the Wizard as a humbug AND it's Toto who causes Dorothy to lose out on a balloon ride home. We're told right up front that Toto brightens Dorothy's life: he's important to her. Baum uses the character very well. ROAD: I really liked it as a kid, and I still do. My perception of it is undoubtedly colored by the gorgeous illos. I'm a fairly visual person, and Neill's linework is incredible. He outdid himself, apparently in an attempt to make the book visually strong enough so that the buyer and/or reader wouldn't resent the lack of color plates or colored inking. I always wondered, though, about the Scoodlers. They were terrifying...probably the most terrifying of all Baum Oz creations and among the most frightening of any fantasy figures anywhere in anyone else's tales. Boy, did Baum change from the original idea of keeping the nightmare figures out of Oz! Jeremy/Kiex: Saw no Rangers, lone or otherwise, but the Astros beat the heck outta the Expos! I found very little Oz this time. One of my customers, however, was in B.C., and *she* found stuff! Oh well. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 00:39:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 Dave: IE means Independent Episode, I think. David: >Did anyone else notice the odd typographic convention, which seems to be >used only in ROAD and EMERALD CITY, where contractions include a space - >e.g., would n't, have n't, etc? I've checked and it's not used in the >earlier books, nor in PATCHWORK GIRL, though I haven't checked later >books for it. Anybody know if this was a popular convention in 1909-10, >or if it was some typesetter at R&L's idiosyncrasy? I forgot to respond to that. Yes, I did. Even as a kid. I guess I was just born to be an English teacher. ;) Realism in Fantasy: We have a right to expect it in every work of fiction. It's one of the most crucial building blocks of a good story. Without it (its fancy name is "verisimilitude") the reader is unable to suspend his/her disbelief because the story won't make sense or have anything to "grab on to." Of course in fantasy, the verisimilitude may take on unusual forms. The WWW, for instance, could never threaten Dorothy with a 22. A magic appliance, yes, but a gun? No. Within the boundaries of this kind of fantastic character, that wouldn't be "realistic." A castle can "realistically" remain upright with a KABUMPO-sized cavern under it as long as that castle is (as, I think it was Ruth said) chock full of heavy-duty magic. On the other hand, Dorothy couldn't, say, just start to fly over the yellow brick road (or something odd like that) without Baum's giving us a reason for it. As a responsible author, he'd owe an explanation to his reader. I'm goin' to sleep now. G'night. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:34:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christine R. Gray" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 X-Authentication-warning: rac2.wam.umd.edu: china owned process doing -bs Scott: Let me know if you want an article. The young woman is a major new screen painter in Baltimore didn't know much at all about Oz et al. I simply told her that I wanted a scene from the Wizard of Oz and that it HAD to have the witch and ToTo. She researched it and got so absorbed in Baum's life, the series, the characters, etc. I could ask her to write a brief essay on her screen painting in re. Oz and her own interest in Oz. Let me know. BTW, It is in my second story front row house window for all who drive up Calvert St. in Baltimore to see and have I ever gotten comments!!! christine gray ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:59:56 -0400 (EDT) From: JMccull304@aol.com Subject: Re: WIZARD OF OZS Yes, we both went to Winkies Conf. and are going to s. Winkies in Oct. at Dana Pt. so fun! thanks Jeanie and Ken ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 29, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 23:23:51 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Jeremy or Kiex >I like the idea of communism...in theory, at least...) And that is the way to like it, in theory. I'll leave it to Tyler to instruct you further. I'm too busy being aghast..... Back to Oz, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 06:04:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: OZ: Next question I need an answer for Well, I haven't heard back from anybody yet in answer to my first two questions, but I'm going to plunge ahead here and try another: What can anyone tell me about Project Ozma? I know it was one of the earliest SETI (search for Extraterrestrial intelligence) programs, ca. 1962, but that's IT! I'd like to give a few more details. Remember, if you can help me out with this FAQ, I need the answers e-mailed straight to me, not to Dave and the "Digest." --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:58:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: The other couple of books where Polychrome shows up briefly are "Grampa" (helping Tatters and company over the rainbow) and (very briefly) "Wonder City," and another brief appearance for Button Bright is in "Magical Mimics." // A small factor (or maybe not so small) in questions of getting large manuscripts returned is that current post office rules forbid dropping stamped envelopes of over a pound in the mailbox. They have to be shlepped to a post office. Anybody have ideas on appropriate addresses to write to and request that this rule be changed? (It's supposed to cut down on the number of mail-bombs, but does it?) Steve Teller: Shaggy's name apparently gets mentioned in the stage version of "Tik-Tok." The Wizard's name gets a later mention in "Ozoplaning." Button Bright's name is given in "Sky Island," but I think never mentioned in the Oz books. Christine R. Gray and Dave Hardenbrook (et al): Hana Field wrote a good paper (with assistance from some of us on the Oz Digs) on library censorship of the Oz books. You might want to drop her a note (hanabanana@juno.com) and ask about cost of a copy. The "religious" objections to the Oz books are all fairly recent (last 10-15 years or so), and I don't think there's been any case where anyone admitted to thinking that the Oz books should be kept out of libraries because of "communistic" teachings -- various Oz fans have suggested that such an objection might be present, even though the objectors weren't admitting to it, but the suggestion seems unlikely to me. (Because if the objectors had that idea in mind, I should think they would have included it in their explicit objections.) The "other grounds" Dave mentioned (the beliefs that fairy tales are unrealistic and give children false ideas about reality, and that the Oz books are poorly written) are older, and something along those lines would be more likely to have been what the Pratt librarians had in mind. Bear: It looks to me as if you sometimes don't re-read previous postings for context. It would probably be a good idea to do that (or do it more often) so as to avoid losing track of what's going on. You thought it was ridiculous for me to say that "having the Shaggy Man steal Toto" shouldn't be considered a worry, because he wasn't stealing Toto, he was only stealing a few apples. "Is this modern thinking?" you ask sarcastically. No. It is an answer to your question, a day or two earlier, "What sort of person is the Shaggy Man if he casually steals a young girl's dog and sticks it in his pocket?" If you don't think stealing a child's dog is significantly worse than stealing a few apples, you shouldn't have asked the original question. Barbara Belgrave: Probability of Winkie straw -- at least in the earlier books, Baum seems to have thought of the Munchkins as more agricultural, and the Winkie country as more wild and unsettled. So in the earlier books he would probably have thought of straw as something easier to come by among the Munchkins, although by the later books it seems to be a more settled country. // Chick the Cherub is mentioned in "Magic," but does not appear again in the Oz books. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:19:30 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 David Hulan never heard of a library that had a copy of WWOO but would not circulate to children. Actually I once (in the 1950s) worked at a public library in Chicato that had a copy of WIZARD on the restricted shelves. PS: The Wichita, KS public library has a copy of WWOO that they will not let children check out. However, it is a first edition, first state. Sturgeon appeared at many SF events over the years and may has said both "crud" and "crap"--and, in more recent years even stronger terms. It is true that the ending of PATCHWORK GIRL is weakened by having the Wizard come in and solve the problem after it becomes unsolvable--but this is also true in RINKITINK where Dorothy arrives after Inga's efforts have failed. This kind of "deus ex machina" was used by Euripides in IPHIGENIA AMONG THE TAURIANS and HELEN, both times after the protagonists had seemingly solved their problems and Euripides through a new problem at them. The central theme of LAND *is* the establishment of the proper ruler on the throne of Oz. Even though the characters do not realize it at the time. The motif of "the return of the king" is a major one in myth, folklore and fantasy. Bear, in his list of ways in which the moral tone has gone down hill, includes, "There is . . . more willingness to tolerate 'bad' behavior in others, etc. Nowhere is this more evident than in the man we have elected as our president." I do not wish to get into a political bear fight, but it is historically true that there has (almost always) been a distinction made between public and private behavior of political leaders. Many excellent political leaders had 'bad behavior' (Grover Cleveland had an illegitimate child, for one example). Perhaps it is our pragmatic willingness to tolerate 'bad' behavior that has enabled us to survive as a nation. Barbara B. asked "Where EXACTLY will the 2000 con be held?" At the current time the most likely spot is Bloomington, Indiana. She also asked what is the music of the spheres. The ancients believed that the universe was composed on many concentric crystaline spheres with the earth at the center. As these spheres revolved they produced exquisite music, which we do not hear because it is always present and our senses are numbed to it. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:56:44 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave <"belgrave@teleport.com"@teleport.com> Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-28-97 Thanks to all on the information on "music of the spheres". Very interesting. Mark Anthony Donajkowski... > i sent out 2 listees disks of oz stuff i had one said she was gonna put it > on her page ive not heard back that either got it and ive lost their ids > one was selena i know so if you read this and u got it let me know what u > think and where your web page is I did send you a message that I had recieved them and I am planning on sending more disks for the remaining files. They will be on my web page. The page is still under production. I hope to have it up by the end of Aug. I don't want to put up a lot of under construction pages so I am working as fast as I can. If any one would like to be included as an Oz link please send me a note stating so. Tyler... > I eagerly await your map problem. Have you read Melody's essay on the > Emerald City and the Royal Palace? No I haven't read it. I thought I asked her about it once but am not sure I got a responce. Where will I find it? Dave... What do think of the idea of sending out the questionaire we all did to the newcomers when they sign on to the Digest so we can learn a little about them? Barb B ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:50:31 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Earl: I like your idea about the tempo marking "l'istesso tempo" as an expression of hope that the Baum family will continue in its present course and at the same pace. Still, I think there's a good chance that this is a quotation from a real piece of music. David: It could indeed by a lullaby. The words "Sleep, sleep, sleep little baby" or "Close your eyes, little baby" fit the rhythm very well, and it would be at a suitably soothing tempo if you played it ca. quarter note = 60 M.M. I've been amusing myself thinking about how the next musical phrase might go, but the first twelve or so options don't sound particularly noteworthy (as it were). David again: You're right that Ervik's quest isn't exactly central to the overall plot of _Glinda_. But what is? As I see it, the basic thrust of the plot is to clear up the mess in the Skeezer/Flathead territory, and the interesting angle in this book is that it takes several different subplots working quasi-independently to get things straightened out. In this sense, Ervik's liberation of the Adepts is an essential step in the multi-phase project of undoing the various wrongs perpetrated by Coo-ee-oh and Su-Dic. Footnote to the news story last week about the gift of a number of items from Ray Bolger's estate to an elementary school in California: when this topic came up on Personal FX (the collectibles show), the ace appraisers speculated that the Doctor of Thinkology diploma, which was among the items received by the school, would bring in the neighborhood of $40,000 to $50,000 if it were put up for sale. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:59:06 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-26,27,28-97 Jeremy: If I, when a child, made a comment like the one Kiex made at the end of your last post, my mother would have washed my mouth out with soap! ;-) Robin O.: My 1997 Oziana arrived today, and I congratulate you on a very fine issue. It was nice to see our Digest friends, Melody Grandy, Dave Hardenbrook, Tyler Jones, Eleanor Kennedy and, of course, yourself as contributors.(Dave actually gets e-mail from Ozma?) In just four short days I'll be off for the '97 Munchkin Convention in Delaware. Am I going to see any of my fellow Digest subscribers there?? Dick ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:12:45, -0500 From: Donald_Davis@prodigy.com (MR DONALD T DAVIS) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-28-97 Has anyone heard of anything new on the proposed Oz Theme Park??? Don!! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:28:24 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 7/28 Digest, David M. Okinaga asks which is the best Oz convention to attend. My personal recommendation is to attend the one of the three major International Wizard of Oz (IWOC) conventions that is closest to your home. Unfortunately for you this year, both the Windier and Ozmapolitan conventions have passed and the Munchkin Convention in Wilmington, Delaware is upon us this Friday! And W. Baldwin, you are exactly right. Capitalism is awful! (Democracy, too.) They are just better that any other sustainable systems that mankind has devised. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:00:04 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-28-97 Douglas: It's true that Dorothy completes her quest in WIZARD - really three successive ones, if not four (get to the Wizard; destroy the WWW; get back to the Wizard; get to Glinda) - but in fact, had she but known it, she could have gotten back to Kansas immediately after her arrival, and again had the GWN's slate been more competent (even if it didn't know how the silver shoes worked), she should have gone to Glinda directly and skipped all the rest of what happened in between. In any case, getting home doesn't resonate with me as a quest on the same level as rescuing Ozma, or de-petrifying Unk Nunkie, or freeing the citizens of Pingaree, or disenchanting a bunch of people who'd been turned into ornaments. WIZARD is a good book - much better than DOTWIZ or ROAD - but it's not one of my top favorites because of that. Earl: The so-called "communist" countries were nothing of the sort; they were socialist, which is a whole different kettle of fish, at least in classical political theory. The Shaker communities were fairly close to true communism; so were a few other fairly short-lived utopian communities in 19th century America. In a socialist society the central authority owns the means of production; in a communist society nobody owns anything, and there is no central authority. Actually the "amusing rescued boy fountain" you refer to is in Belgium, not Denmark, if you're talking about the "Maneken Pis". It's on a corner in Brussels not far from the Grand Place. David O.: I haven't been to any of the civic Oz festivals except the one in Chesterton, Indiana, and I don't recommend that one if your interest in Oz is in anything but the movie, because that's the only thing Ozzy about it. And even for movie fans it's not all that great, IMHO. Based on what I've heard the one in Chittenango, NY, sounds the most "Ozzy", though the one this summer in Aberdeen, SD, also sounds interesting. Maybe Steve Teller or Jane Albright will say something about the one in Kansas; I don't recall what, if anything, has been said about it. But for the true Oz fan who likes the books as much as or more than the movie, I don't think any of the civic festivals match up with the conventions put on by the International Wizard of Oz Club. I don't have the URL for the IWOC Web page readily at hand, but you can get a link to it from Dave Hardenbrook's Web page, and the URL for that is at the end of the Digest. It gives information on the three major and two minor Oz conventions held each year. (The first two majors - Ozmopolitan in Delavan, WI, and Winkie in Pacific Grove, CA - have already been held this year; the third one, Munchkin in Wilmington, DE, is coming up in less than two weeks, IIRC. The Quadling convention in Tulsa, OK, has also been held already; the South Winkie convention will be held in Dana Point, CA, in October.) Even the minor IWOC conventions have far more of interest to a serious Oz fan than the Chesterton festival, and I suspect than any of the civic festivals, since they're designed to appeal to mass audiences most of whom only know the movie. Welcome to the Digest! (Even if it means one more David in the group. :-)) Warren: "Ownership" and "money" are hardly just Western European concepts. Certainly they were prevalent in China and Japan long before they had any significant contact with the West, and of course they were invented for the first time in what's now the Middle East. (Coinage, IIRC, was first done in Lydia, which was in what's now Turkey.) The concept of ownership seems to be common to just about all societies that have adopted settled agriculture or stock-herding; when you work hard to make your fields produce enough food for your family, you tend to believe that that food is _yours_. The "share everything" system seems to work only for hunting-and-gathering societies where the association between the work of an individual and what he produces is much less clearly defined. And I await with interest Bear's comments on your opinion of capitalism... Tyler: Flutterbudget Center and Rigmarole Town are inhabited by human beings who are odd only in their personalities, not their physical characteristics. But whoever brought the subject up (John K.?) also excluded "isolated princedoms," and that would rule out the "city" of the Skeezers, along with Pumperdink, Kimbaloo, Keretaria, Perhaps City, Sapphire City, Regalia, Shamsbad, Troth, Halidom, and probably others that don't come to mind quickly, even though all of those have, or seem to have, something in the way of a city or village inhabited by more or less normal human beings. But they also all seem to have rulers who pay only lip service to Ozma's rule over all Oz. I agree with you. The confusion of east and west - sometimes within the same book, as in ROAD, when Dorothy says the Winkie country is in the west but then Baum says they go northwest from its edge to the EC in the center - is so prevalent in the Oz books that I think we simply have to drop any Oz-as-history explanation and say that the authors or publishers got confused and made mistakes. Interesting question: if Chick, or one of the other characters from the lands outside of Oz, like Bud or Fluff or Inga, were used in a current book, should that character have aged? It's reasonably clear that people do age in Noland and Ix, and probably Pingaree; I forget what it says at the end of JOHN DOUGH about whether Chick grows up or not. But do they age at the same rate as we do, or much more slowly? Anyone have an opinion? Robin: Actually, the scariest thing I can remember from a Baum Oz book (to me) was ********SPOILER FOR RINKITINK********* when Inga was in the Nome King's caves and I turned the page to see that full-page picture of the giant he was going to have to fight. I literally jumped. (Of course, I was only about 7 at the time.) ********END SPOILER******************** Although for sustained scariness I guess the Scoodlers probably take the prize. Mooj is just about as scary, though, and for sheer nastiness I'm not sure but what Wutz is the worst. At least the Scoodlers were honest about what they wanted, and were going to put the travelers to the same kind of good use we put cows and sheep and chickens, no worse. The odd typographic convention with contractions seems to continue through SKY ISLAND, in fact, so books from R&B from 1909-1912 used it, and not other years as far as I can tell (without an exhaustive check). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:22:57 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Anti-Oz Period - Let's compare notes here. I spent a lot of time in the Portland, Oregon public library, main branch during the 40's and early 50's and I never saw a copy of an Oz book. In the 60's and 70's I read every children's book in the San Jose Library to my children and never saw an Oz book. After that I quit going to the children's part of the library so I can't comment on the 80's and 90's. Who saw Oz books in a library in any of these decades? David - Since you brought up labor unions, have you ever been in one? They certainly don't represent the "cooperation of free men." I was FORCED to join the Teamsters and pay $50 per month when I was a kid loading freight trucks. $50 was a lot to me in the 50's when I was trying to save to go to college. I got the job with no help from the union. I was warned by the older hands not to bother going to a union meeting as the leaders decided what was going to be done and when a vote was required everyone was simply ordered to stand. Woe to anyone who didn't stand. Then they all went out and drank beer. I will confess I have little use for unions. I am sure they served a purpose back in the old sweat shop days when workers were badly exploited by SOME employers. Then they got big and powerful and forced ridiculous work rules, like how many tiles you could lay an hour. The result of this was to put companies out of business and drive jobs overseas. Well, pardon me, back to Oz. Hope your finger feels better. It sure didn't seems to slow you down. :) Bob - That was a joke about wires. :) Sorry I left off the :). I worked for GTE and am an engineer, but was neither a phone man nor an electrician. Oh dear, another Dave/David - what will we call him? "Davo?" Dave O, do you have a nickname as Dave and David are already taken for purposes of clarity? Warren - Glad to see you back. However, if you think we are living under "capitalism" you have been sadly misinformed. I have been off-subject enough lately that I am charry of pursuing this. I challenge you to check your premise. And oh my! I have even been chastized by Kiex! Robin - Ah yes, the willing suspension of disbelief. Some even apply that to politics. :) Christine >X-Authentication-warning: rac2.wam.umd.edu: china owned process doing -bs Mind-boggling! This has to be worth a whole essay. Please elaborate. Busily, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:24:56 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz David: I'll agree that Ervic did not do all that much to advance the plot or solve the problem at hand. He did release the Adepts (for which Dave is grateful), but their only function afterward was to assume rule of Flathead Mountain. However, the issue of Lady Aurex always bothered me. What, after all, did she do to "deserve" becoming queen? (If such a word can even be applied in this case). At most, she provided Dorothy and Ozma a place to stay. In this case, the people chose her, so we can assume that she was popular with the people before we arrived on the scene, maybe working behind the scenes to make their lives a little better. All the best for your finger. Thou shalt type again! :-) Doug and Lori: I quite enjoyed _Scarecrow_. In many ways, I envy those who are reading them for the first time. Now, if I only had one of those memory things from _Men in Black_... Earl: Hmmmm, _The Carpetbaggers in Oz_. A book I shall never write. David Okinaga: Welcome to the Digest! I'll let others fill you in on the conventions, since I have yet to go to one. For info on Ozzy events around the country, you might want to visit Eric Gjovaag's homepage. He lives at: http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:21:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz Gazette Hi Digest readers, Sorry I've been out of touch for so long. And unfortunately, I can't even promise it will soon be better. Life's pretty well packed just now. One worrisome thing on my plate is the Autumn issue of the Oz Club's paper for kids, The Oz Gazette. I've received painfully little from children or other members, so if any of you have always meant to send me one thing or another, this would sure be a great time. I'm off to Bloomington, Ind., to develop the contract for the Oz centennial convention, then head to Aberdeen, S.D., for the Oz festival where I need to mix having fun with promoting the Club. Those weekend events on top of weeks already filled with work and family make my eight empty Gazette pages particularly threatening. What do you suppose the deal is? Have I been putting out lousy issues lately and no one's had the heart to tell me? Just not enough kid's in the Club these days? It's really unusual. I can usually count on at least a couple dozen letters/contributions after most Club mailings. I thought the globe was an especially cool project.... On the home front, I bought baby Joy an HM Woggle Bug brand dress today that, with any luck, will be her size in time for next summer's Ozmopolitan convention. And on a recent trip I found some Elbert Hubbard/Roycroft material including issues of the Philistine with Denslow illustrated back covers and ads for several Denslow items including the andirons I covet (Hey, if I can't have the andirons, at least I can look at the picture!). An ad for What's the Use was on an uncut page. Two copies included letters that went out with the original issues, one of them on stationery with a different Denslow design than I'd seen. And one little pamphlet had an exceptionally clean copy of the logo Denslow designed for the group. Exciting finds since they were cheap. Cheap and Oz so rarely go together. I'm off and running. Keep me in mind though, if you can contribute anything to the Gazette that kids would enjoy. Jane P.S. Someone recently posted a question about an Oz museum in Wisc. In case no one responded, that's no doubt Garry Parrett's collections-based museum. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:22:29 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 David Hulan wrote: >John K.: >>Indeed, I don't believe there are any towns in Oz apart from the E.C. >>in _any_ of the books, if one excludes isolated princedoms and >>settlements of various eccentric races, beings, and characters. > >That, of course, excludes most of Oz, but I guess if you mean that there >isn't a record of another town or village inhabited by the same kind of >people who make up the majority of the population of the EC, without a >local ruler of some sort, I can't think of a counter-example in the FF. Actually, it occurs to me that there is one: the Sapphire City. But in general, the ordinary folk of Oz seem to be subsistence farmers, since there don't even seem to be any market towns. I have always (even without, I think, influence from the movie) vaguely supposed that Dorothy's first landing among the Munchkins was in some sort of village, but there is nothing concrete to make it so, just a feeling, and the fact that were are three (?) witnesses to the WWE's demise, who do not appear from the illustrations (I think we must give Denslow's a textual authority beyond the usual, due to the collaborative nature of tWWoO) to be dressed for farm labor. The ready availability of Winkie artisans also raises a question in the west. Richard Bauman wrote: John >If I, for one, should quit my present job, it will be out of nothing more, less or other than sheer disgust at its general uselessness. If this is what you think of your job, you certainly have my sympathy. I don't understand why you would continue to do it? Mainly because I have 28 years in here, and I am hoping that either A) they'll straighten out -- I have only 6 years until I'm eligible for retirement -- or B) they'll notice that I'm not actually doing anything and lay me off on the same terms as the other people they laid off last year. >Dave >My point was: Is a system of cooperation, as espoused by Ozma, >necessarily "communist", or otherwise irreconcilable with capitalism? Heavens no! As long as the "cooperation" is not ordered by the state. The cooperation of free men is an integral part of capitalism. Not strictly speaking, in either case; Marx-Leninism is not the same thing as communism -- the primitive church was, and all monastaries are, communist, after all, and the distinctive characteristic of capitalism is the presumption that investment is the origin of wealth (thus the otherwise-inexplicable designation of Reagan's policies as "supply-side"), and does not otherwise exclude the existence of, e.g., slavery. (It is, after all, a classic Marxist trope to refer to the status of workers in the 19th-20th-century west as "wage slaves", and at many places and times, the criticism has been well deserved; c.f. the institution of the "company store".) Barbara Belgrave wrote: >In the Musicker chapter it is said "I'm accustomed only to the music of >the spheres". What exactly is music of the spheres? I just played a >computer game that also had the music of the spheres in it. A quasi-mystical thought out of classical Greek science. The "spheres" are the crystal spheres that carry the planets (that is, the moon, Venus, Mercury, the Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) and the fixed stars in their more or less daily orbits around the Earth. The "music of the spheres" is the sound that they obviously make, because they move at certain definite ratios to each other, and musical strings vibrate at certain definite ratios to each other (the lapse in logic here is not mine), which is obviously too refined for human ears, since we don't hear it. Not that Baum, of course, believed in Ptolemaic astronomy, let alone Pythagorean numerology -- the phrase "music of the spheres" was by Baum's time, and still is, purely conventional. >Do we hear more about Chick the Cherub in later books? I'm so grateful >when all of you are so careful not to tell what future books are about >in such detail that it gives some of the story line away. Not in any later book, but in the earlier "John Dough and the Cherub". >Do we ever hear the Woggle-Bug's "Ode to Ozma" in any story? >Do we know what the love story was that the Tin Woodman tells for Ozma? No and no, although one might guess. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:20:29 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest music Gordon Birrell asked about the snatch of music on the "Road" dedication page. A possibility occurred to me, but I didn't have enough of the music to prove it or disprove it. I wonder if someone ele in the group does. I thought it might be one of the Baum-Tietjens songs from the stage-version of "The Wizard" (or, perhaps, one of the Baum-Chapin songs from "Wogglebug"). In the process, it occurred to me to wonder if the "Oz Two Step" on the piano in the Tin Woodman's castle might be a quotation from there, too. It's so teeny that I can't make out the notes at all, but it looks elaborate enough to have been copied from something real rather than mocked up by itself. The time signature is 9/8, and the key might be F. I have copies of two of the Baum-Tietjens songs, "When You Love Love Love," and "The Scarecrow," and I notice that the verse of "When You Love Love Love" is in 9/8 time, and the song includes a "L'istesso tempo" marking, so it seems a reasonable possibility that both quotations might be from Tietjens music, but they're not from "When You Love Love Love" (or "The Scarecrow" either). If some of you have copies of the other songs, you might try looking to see if you spot a match. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:33:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-28-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com David: Ouch! I offer empathy and encouragement. Your finger will get better--mine are almost as good as new now. Bear: My apologies (genuinely). I did my very best to rescind my post of the last Digest, but AOL wouldn't let me, I guess. I am willing, given the more generous and wide-sweeping nature of the Digest, to put all this partisan nonsense aside (unlike our politicians) and accept everyone as Ozzy; it just may take time. Everyone: I think what Kiex meant with her foul language at the end of the post was that she is tired of being in her cage and wants out. KIEX: You bet I want out, after the way you've been treating me Jeremy: No comment. IE's: I can think of a few examples . . . East and West: Perhaps Oz, too, is simply on the other side of the looking glass . . . (They sing Carrolls there too, I think) --!!!XIEK AND Namdeats Ymerej ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 97 14:49:55 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things PROJECT OZMA: Eric wrote: >What can anyone tell me about Project Ozma? Project Ozma was both named and executed in 1960 by Frank Drake, then of Cornell University (He is now at the University of California at Santa Cruz). His said that he named it after our queen because he knew those other inhabited planets were, like Oz, "very far away, difficult to reach, and populated by exotic beings." In Project Ozma, Drake searched two nearby sun-like stars, Tau Ceti and Epsilon Eridani, for radio signals of intellegent origin. As the law of averages might predict (he searched two stars out of 400 billion in our Galaxy) nothing was detected, although there were a few false alarms. In 1973, Ben Zuckerman of the University of Maryland and Patrick Palmer of the University of Chicago initiated a follow-up search, Ozma II, which scanned 600 stars, but with no greater success. Project Ozma and Ozma II were the precursors of modern SETI ("Search for Extraterrestrial Intellegence") programs. QUESTIONARE: Barb B. wrote: >Dave... >What do think of the idea of sending out the questionaire we all did to >the newcomers when they sign on to the Digest so we can learn a little >about them? Good idea, but I fear that the questionare was lost in the Great Hard Drive Crash of 1997 that I suffered, so unless someone still has a copy, or one of my Digest archivers can find it the Digest back issues... SOUTH WINKIES: Does anyone know when the info. for South Winkies will be sent out? In Past I think I've usually received it by now. I am working on "Nonestica: The Movie", which I wanted to show at the convention, but since I can't afford a video output card for my PC at this time, I have no idea how to get it on videotape. OZIANA: I also received my 1997 Oziana yesterday, featuring many contributions from Digest members, including Computer VirOzes, Ozma's junk E-mail, and on page 13, my first published Ozzy illustration! It shows Ozma at her PC surrounded by various Ozites. This picture represents the debut of my Frida-esque Ozma, my Enya-esque Glinda, and (to Ozma's left) Dan! OZ BOOKS: Bear wrote: >Anti-Oz Period - Let's compare notes here. I spent a lot of time in the >Portland, Oregon public library, main branch during the 40's and early 50's >and I never saw a copy of an Oz book. In the 60's and 70's I read every >children's book in the San Jose Library to my children and never saw an Oz >book. After that I quit going to the children's part of the library so I >can't comment on the 80's and 90's. Who saw Oz books in a library in any >of these decades? I guess I was lucky. The Huntington Beach Public Library has always had the Baum 14, _Royal Book_, the Snow Books, and _Merry-Go-Round_, at least since the 70's when I was a "little shaver" reading Oz for the first time. And more recently they have aquired most of the rest of the FF (partly through donation), including the elusive _Ojo_ and _Purple Prince_, and even some BoW books. TO JANE: I'm sorry about the lack of contributions to the Oz Gazette...Is there anything of mine that I might submit? ODES: Barb B. wrote: >Do we ever hear the Woggle-Bug's "Ode to Ozma" in any story? No, but perhaps it's the words that Jellia SINGS to Ozma in praise of her in my book ( Sorry, Jellia holds a copyright on the song, so I can't reprint it here -- You'll have to wait until I can find a publisher for my Ozzy love story! :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 30, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:10:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-97 Dick: Thanks for the kind words about OZIANA. I wondered if anyone had gotten theirs yet. For those still debating about whether to get one, this issue has 32 pp. instead of the standard 24. It's loaded with stuff from DIGEST folks, and it's good! Oz in Libraries:Yes, both the Larchmont and Mamaroneck,NY libraries had the WIZARD in the late '40s-early '60s, but I don't think they had more than that. It never bothered me, since my family kept me reasonably well-supplied. Carbondale, Herrin, Marion, and Carterville, IL libraries were pleased to get more Oz from me in the '70s. The West Frankfort, IL had quite a collection of Oz firsts in circulation: someone had apparently donated them as they came out (mostly RPT books). My local Houston library also circulates the ones I've donated. Questionnaire: Do you mean the poll? I think I may have a copy of the questions on the hard drive of my Mac. Want me to check? David: Hope the finger feels better soon. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:47:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Nesi Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-97 X-Originating-IP: [207.180.8.204] Hello, Ozzy Digest members! My name is Ted Nesi and I just joined today (7/29). I own a web page devoted to Oz, especially the 1939 film. First off I want to say I like this mailing list! Everyone seems so friendly...and it's very informative. My question is this - I just read the Dover edition of "Marvelous Land" (I had read an old, quite abridged edition with strange illustrations) and at the end the Scarecrow becomes the Royal Treasurer...I thought they didn't use money in Oz? I can understand a treasurer for diamonds, rubies, emeralds, etc. but the illustrations clearly showed many coins and even a few checks and bills. Can anyone explain this? Ted P.S. Did anyone notice in the illustration of the Scarecrow in the royal treasury there was a check in the bottom-lefthand corner made out to John R. Neill! :) *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** * TED'S LUCILLE BALL PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/LUCINDEX.HTM * * * * TED'S MUPPET PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/mupindex.html * * * * CLASSIC TELEVISION * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/TVINDEX.HTM * * * * THE UNOFFICIAL "WIZARD OF OZ" HOME PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9151/ * * * * "Do you pop out at parties? Are you unpoopular? Well are * * you??" - Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball, "I Love Lucy," 1952) * *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:41:39 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-97 Bear, > Who saw Oz books in a library in any > of these decades? Along with DaveH47 I guess I was lucky. I grew up in Roseville, CA and during the 40's at least (by the 50's I was in my teens and considered myself far too sophisticated to be reading OZ) I can recall the library being well stocked with OZ books, At least Baum and Thompson. Selena who used to correspond with us also grew up there a few years later and has stated some unpleasantness about Oz from the librarian, but that's not my recollection. > A quasi-mystical thought out of classical Greek science. The "spheres" > are the crystal spheres that carry the planets (that is, the moon, > Venus, Mercury, the Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) and the fixed stars > in their more or less daily orbits around the Earth. The "music of > the spheres" is the sound that they obviously make, because they move > at certain definite ratios to each other, and musical strings vibrate > at certain definite ratios to each other (the lapse in logic here is > not mine), which is obviously too refined for human ears, since we > don't hear it. > Is it just my overstimulated imagination or do I hear echoes of C.S. Lewis' quite excellent _Out Of The Silent Planet_, _Perelandra_, and _That Hideous Strength_ trilogy? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:01:09 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-97 Richard Bauman wrote: >Who saw Oz books in a library in any of these decades? Waterville, ME had _Wizard_, _Speedy_, and _Hidden_ _Valley_ in the 50's. Still had 'em, the last time I looked (in the mid-80's). Madison, NJ had a white set in the late 60's. Still may, for aught I know to the contrary. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:25:51 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 7/28 Digest, Richard Randolph asks about our intentions for the Munchkin Convention this weekend. My intentions are honorable. I plan to attend for the whole convention and intend to curb my tongue on the subject of current American politics. I also promise to buy any of you a drink, if you find me at a cocktail hour. (if my mind has wandered off at that point, just remind me of this promise.) Also on 7/28 Earl Abbe (who is that guy?) suggests attending the IWOC conventions, including the "Windier" Convention. I thought I proofread that note, before sending it. Obviously, I did not. Sorry. :-( Of course I meant the great Winkie Convention. And David Hulan points out that a particular piece of sculpture is in Belgium, not Denmark. My informant needs to brush up on his non-Oz geography! I have not seen the statue myself and thought that my informant knew what he was talking about. Earl Abbe (without informant) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:06:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-97 In the Digest of the 29th there was reference to a Ray Bolger bequest to a HS in California. I read in the last week or so about a bequest from the dsate of Mrs. Bolger of memorabilia to a HS in the Kansas City region. Were there two separate bequests or was one of the stories in error? David O inquired about an Oz festival in Kansas. I have not heard about the plans for a 1997 Oztoberfest in Liberal (in the far western part of the state) but in the past it has been almost totally MGM. The same is true about the Yellow Brick Road Days in Sedan KS, in which the Ozziest thing is Margaret Pelligrini in the parade. A genuinely Ozzy (or at least Baum-y) event is scheduled for Aberdeen, SD August 8-10. Jane Albright and I will be there representing IWOC and many serious events are planned. Bear: The teamsters union was a very bad union, and should not be used as a stick to beat all unions. Labor unions were developed as a way the workers could get leverage to oppose the power of the employers. The economists of the 19th century had declared that it was the duty of capitolists to give workers the lowest wages they could. It is only through a balance between the power of capitol and labor that *fairness* (a term that some conservatives consider evil) can be achieved. Now, on to ROAD: Someone, I believe--I cannot easily call up old digests, and things will get worse next month until I can get back to my office, commented on the fact that the Queen of the Field Mice was not invited to Ozma's birthday party. However, she was there. You can see he next to Santa Claus in the picture on 243, drinking a toast to Ozma. On the subject of Neill's illustrations to the book, one of my vavorite little touches is on the tailpiece to "The Grand Banquet" (page 245) showig a procession of waiters carrying food to the banquet, and the 5th waiter has a bottle labled "Catsup." The story the Tin Woodman tells about Dyna's blue bear rug provides some problems in terms of later Oz lore. In the first place two beings die in the course of the story, the crooked Sorcerer and the blue bear. More interesting is the statement that the living rug can't speak because, "It has no breath in a solid body to push the words out of its mouth." But what being broughbeing brought to life by the powder of life *did* have lungs? Certainly the wooden Sawhorse and the bodyless Gump were lungless, and Jack Pumpkinhead's body was a piece of birch bark. Two abridgements of ROAD deserve to be mentioned. The 1939 Rand McNally Junior Edition (one of 6 Jr. eds released that year) is notable as the only edition of ROAD to have Neill's illustrations in color. It is very pleasent to see Polychrome's robes in full color, and in the picture of the Toast to Ozma (mentioned earlier in this post) the Queen of the Field Mice shows up more clearly with tan body and red robe. This 62 page version is a real collectors item. The story omits the the Scoodlers and the Musiker, but is skillfully shortened. The 1951 Little Golden Book illustrated byHarry McNaught is a really extreme abridgement. It omits Button-Bright, Dunkiton, the Musiker, the Scoodlers, and Tik-Tok and Billina. Tik-Tok and Billina (and King Kik-a-Bray) do appear in a picture of guests arriving for the party. H. M. Woggle-Bug T. E. is in the picture looking totally human. Thisv was one of three LGBs of Oz books that came out at that time (the others bein EMERALD CITY and TIN WOODMAN--in one of them was a picture of Ozma looking in her Magic Television Set). It might be mentioned that by 1939, when the Jr. Editions were published, Oz books were no longer being printed with color plates (or pictures) so these abridgements were the only Oz books with color at the time. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:04:51 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-29-97 Ruth: Thought I mentioned Button-Bright's appearance in MAGICAL MIMICS; I remember that one quite well. I'd forgotten Polychrome's appearances in GRAMPA and WONDER CITY, though. It's worth point out, regarding Shaggy's "stealing" apples, that he only picked up windfalls. Once an apple has fallen off its tree, it needs to be eaten within a few hours unless it's to be used for making cider or butter or other by-product, because the fall bruises it. While in a technical sense he was stealing the apples, it's extremely unlikely that Uncle Henry would have refused him permission to pick up all he wanted if he'd been there to ask (even if Shaggy hadn't had the Love Magnet). Steve: I'm not surprised that a library with a 1st edition, 1st state WIZARD wouldn't allow it to circulate to children. In fact, I'm surprised if a library would let such a copy circulate at all. But putting an ordinary circulating copy of the book on restricted shelves is very surprising - did that library in Chicago where you worked give any rationale for why it was restricted? My reference was to the original published statement of Sturgeon's Law, in his book review section of _Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction_ in the late '50s; there, the formulation was "crud". He may have restated it in other terms in other venues before or since. The difference between _Rinkitink_ and _Patchwork Girl_, in my mind, is that Inga does succeed in achieving the bulk of his quest - defeating the warriors of Regos and Coregos and freeing almost all of the people of Pingaree. He only needs assistance with the last detail - freeing his parents. (And the ending is obviously just contrived to get "Oz" into the title, since if Inga had done it all by himself there'd have been no Oz connection at all. A minor weakness in the book, but more forgiveable in my opinion.) Ojo's quest, on the other hand, proves to be completely meaningless. The central theme of LAND is the establishment of the rightful ruler of Oz, OK, but it is not a quest that the characters are set on for all or even most of the book. Gordon: I agree that Ervic's quest is an important part of the central theme of _Glinda_ (straightening out the mess in the Skeezer-Flathead region), but it's not central in itself, any more than the original Ozma-Dorothy journey or the mass caravan of Ozma's counselors under Glinda. Earl: I think it was Churchill who said, "Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others." Bear: I remember seeing Oz books in a couple of libraries in the '70s; I can't recall which libraries they were, but at a guess probably Pasadena and Arcadia. These were just a few of the Baums, but then those were the only ones in print then (or that had been in print recently). Today all the Baums - including some of his non-Oz books, like ZIXI - are in the Naperville library, but that's the only library I've checked in the '90s. I don't remember any Oz books in libraries when I was a kid, but I lived a good deal of that time in towns without libraries; the only exception was Jacksonville, IL, which didn't have any Oz books but did have THE LIFE AND ADVENTURES OF SANTA CLAUS. Finger is fine now. I still have to wear a bandage on it because the nail was cut away enough that I can't get it smooth, but it doesn't hurt any more. Jane: Sorry to hear you're having problems filling the GAZETTE. I'd be happy to write something for it, but don't really know what kind of thing you have in mind; it was my impression that the GAZETTE was supposed to be for, and as much as possible by, the younger members of the IWOC. If you can give me some idea of the sort of thing that would be acceptable coming from an older member I'll see what I can do. There's an HM Wogglebug brand of dresses for children? Where is it available? John K.: I'd consider the Sapphire City to fall into your "isolated princedoms" category, at least as much as Perhaps City or Shamsbad, to mention a couple. Certainly it's isolated (until after the end of the only book where we actually visit it), and while Cheeriobed is called "king", so are Peer Haps and Ree Alla Bad. I think there must be villages of normal people scattered around Oz; even subsistence farmers need the services of millers and blacksmiths and a few other specialists within a walk of an hour or two. We just never have occasion to see them in any of the books. I'm sure Baum didn't believe in a Ptolemaic universe, but the Oz universe seems to resemble a Ptolemaic more than a Copernican one. (Although this resemblance is more pronounced in Thompson than in Baum.) Dave: Robin was the one who originated the questionnaire, IIRC (I know she compiled it); she may still have a copy, though I believe she's changed from Mac to PC recently and so might not. (Macs can read PC files, but not vice versa.) I could almost certainly dig up a copy, but it would entail some work; I'll wait to see if someone else has it handier before I do that. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:55:10 -0500 (CDT) From: dsparker@mail.utexas.edu (Douglass S. Parker) Subject: Oz and Librarians [Ozzy Digest 7/29/97] Ruth et al.-- I haven't yet run down Hana Field's paper on library censorship of the Oz books, but here are some references to classic items in the brouhaha: In the recent reissue of Martin Gardner's ORDER AND SURPRISE (Prometheus Books, orig. pub. 1983, reiss. 1996), you can find his statements from the '50's and '60's: "Librarians in Oz." Saturday Review, April 11, 1959, pp. 18-19. [ORDER AND SURPRISE, Chapter 11, pp. 138-141] "Why Librarians Dislike Oz." Library Journal 88 (15 February 1963):834-36. (Reprinted from American Book Collector, December 1962.) [ORDER AND SURPRISE, Chapter 12, pp. 142-146] From the '70's, there's Gore Vidal's lengthy treatment of Oz from "The New York Review of Books," 29 Sept and 13 Oct, 1977, reprinted in his THE SECOND AMERICAN REVOLUTION AND OTHER ESSAYS (Random House, 1982), pp. 55-82. The King Charles' Head for both critics is one Ralph Ulveling, sometime Director of Libraries in Detroit, who delivered himself of some ungusseted idiocies in the "Amerian Library Association Bulletin" for October, 1957. I only know this by citation, but the quotes from it are chilling enough to deserve reprinting: "Cowardly approach to life..." "...negativism..." "There is nothing uplifting or elevating about the Baum series." Let me insert, from Gardner's first essay, a quote from Dorothy Dodd, State Librarian of Florida in 1959: She urged the withdrawal of the Oz books from FL public libraries, because they were: "poorly written, untrue to life, sensational, foolishly sentimental and consequently unwholesome for the children in your community." Save us from our friends. Personal Confrontations: Ca. 1937: The local Carnegie in La Porte IN did NOT carry the Oz books, and this was done on principle. They were, a librarian informed me, "series books"--phrase delivered with an apotropaic hiss, a subtextual yeccch, and a great deal of disappointment in me for asking for such dreck. [We had had a nice relationship until then; I was the spectacled fat kid who read everything.] The appearance of the movie in 1939 changed nothing. An unsystematic check of other town libraries yielded the same determined void on the shelves, until... Late 1949: I went to graduate school. Out of habit, I dropped into the local library in Princeton NJ, and lo and behold, there they were. All? I don't remember. But certainly all the Baums, and spreads of Thompsons. How long this had been going on, I don't know. A rogue bequest? I have no idea. But they were THERE, and obviously had been there for some time, and Ulveling would not publish his blather for eight years. The ban, then, was not universal. Looking back, I don't know how annoyed I ought to be. The confrontation at age ten may have been the very first time I was absolutely sure that I knew better than entrenched authority; on the whole, a Plus. On the other hand, this was the beginning of my obsessive book-buying. But for the American Library Association, I might be solvent in my old age. Balances out, I guess. doug parker ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:15:08 -0700 From: Barbara Belgrave <"belgrave@teleport.com"@teleport.com> Subject: Ozzy Digest Bob Sheperd... Just seen Valerie's members art portrait of Ozma in my Emerald City Mirror. Great job Valerie! Bear... I checked our Multnomah County Library here in Portland Oregon and there were lots of Oz books and tapes available now. Ozisus... How about adult contributions to the Oz Gazette. Is that allowed? I may be abled to whip something. Dave... Questionaire (Jan. 1997 Oz Digest Members Poll) NAME DATE OF BIRTH HOME PROFESSION LEVEL OF EDUCATION AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Hope that helps. This would give us an idea about our new members too. I might pursue the idea of putting up an Oz directory on my page I am currently building of all Digest members with this info. What do you all think? Any objections from anyone to be included? Barb B. -- Z * / \ * OzO :zOz: OzO O_O_IIIIIII_O_O ___ ___ I I I I I I (___)------------------------------------------(___) O_O_O_O_O_O_O_O_O | | Barbara and Scott Belgrave | | \_______________/ | | belgrave@teleport.com | | I ___ I | | | | I I | | ~If my computer only had a brain, | | I / i \ I |___| a heart, some courage~ |___| I I: i :I I (___)------------------------------------------(___) I___I:_i_:I___I ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:06:48 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Ruth Berman: Thanks very much for checking your sheet music for that quotation on the dedication page of _Road_. Baum's own musicals are indeed a likely source for that quotation, and I hope other members of the Digest will help us out here. I took another look at the illustration of Dorothy playing the Oz Two-Step at the Tin Woodman's castle. Even with a high-powered magnifying glass, it's hard to make out much of that score, though you are right, Ruth, that it appears to be in the key of F major, or possibly even B-flat major. Other than that, it looks like a two-step by Scriabin, with all those improbable flamboyant runs. Polychrome's dance routine (lean back and kick high) echoes the steps performed by the women dancers in the illustration on the author's page: that Oz Two-Step is apparently quite an athletic little dance. To judge from the rococo case and the short keyboard, incidentally, the Tin Woodman's piano is an expensive antique from the eighteenth century. One of the many percs of being Emperor! A number of people have commented on the deterioration of quality in the illustrations in later printings. I agree. The detail work is so incredibly fine in these drawings that the printing plates began to wear down almost immediately. I can see a slight decline even within earlier and later printings in the first state. When I first read the book (an R&L reprint from the forties) I thought that Shaggy looked distinctly sinister, particularly in that full-page illustration with the love magnet on p. 23. In the much earlier printings you can see that he does in fact have very kindly eyes. Bear: I'm shocked that the Portland, Oregon, public library had no Oz books at all in the forties and fifties. In the Salem public library, 50 miles south, we had all of the Baum 14 plus at least _Royal Book_, _Lost King_, _Cowardly Lion_, and _Gnome King_. For those who would like more information on librarians' infamous hostility toward the Oz books, there is a whole group of articles devoted to this topic in the critical materials that Michael Patrick Hearn included in his edition of _The Wizard of Oz_, published by Shocken Books in 1983. John Kennedy: >(It >is, after all, a classic Marxist trope to refer to the status of workers >in the 19th-20th-century west as "wage slaves", and at many places and >times, the criticism has been well deserved; c.f. the institution of >the "company store".) Interesting Baum connection here. In _Aunt Jane's Nieces on Vacation_, a grossly exploitative company store is one of the factors that cause mill workers to riot. While the book exposes the evils of a certain kind of money-grubbing capitalism, however, the alternative is certainly not socialism or communism but the benign figure of Uncle John, entrepeneurial capitalism personified, who gives his nieces the seed money to start their own newspaper business so that they can learn the hard lessons of running a complex business and keeping it financially viable. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 97 14:23:40 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BARB: Thanks for posting the questionare! If the new Digest members wish, they may fill it out and submit it to Robin for her Ozzy poll. AOL OZITES: Before terminating my AOL account, I tried to E-mail the elusive JelliaJamb through it, but with no success. I DID however discover about 40 people on AOL with "Ozma" in their screen names, so I E-mailed some of them (the ones who in reading their online bios proved to be fans of Ozma the princess not Ozma the rock group) with a pitch for the Digest... It was also interesting to discover that there are (male) fans of Oz online who happily stated in their bios to be in love with Ozma and wanted to MARRY her...So at last I have proof that I'm NOT some kind of "sacriligeous" pervert! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, JULY 31, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:14:42 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Oh sadness! In response to questions about Munchkin attendance, I regret to inform that I have to go to Switzerland on Saturday and so will miss the Munchkins gala. At first I was going to attend Friday evening only, but I have already seen most of the program elements at the two earlier other convention, and decided it was just too hectic to go. Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 17:51:33 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff Barbara: NAME Douglas Alan Silfen DATE OF BIRTH 03/14/64 RESIDENCE Poway, California PROFESSION History teacher (2 year college) LEVEL OF EDUCATION Masters in History AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ Movie=4 Books=33 HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ Books= Bought first book at MGM Oz bookstore in Las Vegas HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ = Web surfing about OZ OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO Organization of American Historians PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) Tie HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? 9 so far (still going) WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? How the Wizard Came to Oz, Magic Chest of Oz, Speckled Rose of Oz, Dagmar of Oz, Masquerade in Oz, Wicked Witch of Oz. HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) will write after I read about 15 more books! :-) MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? The non-human major characters WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Living beings in Oz can and do die. Death is just defined differently there. The Wicked Witch of the West "can" return somehow, someday. The Wizard had nothing to do with giving Ozma to Mombi. The Tin Man found an imposter Nimee Amee. One day he will get a kind and loving heart and find the real Nimee Amee waiting for him and they will marry. Oz is on this here earth in this here dimension!! People do age in Oz, time just moves very very slowly there as compared to our time. Douglas Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:30:11 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-30-97 Oz books in libraries: I grew up in a small suburban town in northern NJ, and the local library carried no Oz books. As I've mentioned before, my 4th grade teacher introduced me (and my classmates) to Oz books. An elderly neighbor lady was on the local library Board of Trustees, and when my mother asked her why no Oz books, she replied that "they were fairy tales, and unsuitable reading for children". I now live in southern Ocean Co. NJ and the county library system carries all the Baum books, as well as those of Neill, Snow and the McGraws. But none of RPT! I'll have to look into that> Earl: I appreciate your kind offer, and, as your new best friend, will gladly refresh your memory if necessary! ;-) Dick ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:48:59 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Well, I may have had to go to Modesto today but it provided a chance to check out some new bookstores. Both of them had Oz books. For anyone interested: Melrose Place - 1700 McHenry Ave., #32 - Modesto, CA 95350 - 209-525-8981 Email Address: MELROSEBK@AOL.COM They had a copy of Shaggyman with jacket in "mint" condition. The owner told me she had looked it up in "the rare books book" and that book said it was worth $500. [You can see we have a problem now.] They were asking $425. They also had Scarecrow for $69, Road to Oz for $39, Land of Oz for $45, and Tik Tok w jacket for $129. Various conditions. The other store was truly spectacular. It was huge and I could have spent a day in there easily. I would guess they had over 100 of the older Oz books and 25 of the newer versions in white bindings. Multiple copies of many books. I didn't check Oz prices but the books that I bought (non-Oz) were very reasonable. They would be happy to respond to queries. They are: Yesterday's Books - 3457 McHenry Ave. - Modesto, CA 95350 - 209-521-9623 Email Address: yestrday@interloc.com Ruth - I'm not going to do an "Eric" and reprint your whole post but I am tempted. Of course I read your post and replied in context. However, I don't think I follow what you are trying to say besides "flame" Bear. Your double negative confuses me. Please elaborate. Sigh! Steven, it escapes me how Cleveland fathering an illegitimate child promoted our survival as a nation? Do you have a better example or is this simply a call to universally be tolerant of "bad" behavior in "good" politicians? You did say >there has (almost always) been a distinction made between public and private behavior of political leaders. By whom may I ask? No one I know. David - Sorry, I'm tired. I'll let someone else take a turn at defending Capitalism. Dick? Earl? Tyler? Back to Oz. Tiredly, Bear (:<) P.S. Dave, here is your response to the questionaire. NAME: Dave Hardenbrook DATE OF BIRTH: 11/26/67 HOME (With nearest major city if you're somewhere out in the "boonies"): Orange County, CA (South of Los Angeles) PROFESSION: Computer Programmer HIGHEST LEVEL OF EDUCATION ATTAINED--DEGREE(S) EARNED...: T.E. :) AGE YOU "DISCOVERED" OZ: Hard for me to remember for sure...I was definitely an Oz fan by age 9 HOW YOU "DISCOVERED" OZ (This probably can't be tabulated, but it's always fun to know.): Anyway, my dad read me the books, each of them several times, and I rapidly became what dinosaurologist Robert Bakker, in regard to childhood passions that never die, calls a "terminal case". :) :) :) HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ (From a friend? Web page and which one?, etc.): I *invented* the _Ozzy Digest_! :) (But I learned about its forerunner, Nate Barlow's _Ozian Times_, from the _Baum Bugle_.) OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO: I'm a card-carrying member of the International Wizard of Oz Club and The Royal Club of Oz. PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS): THE BOOKS, THE BOOKS, THE BOOKS!!!!! :) :) :) HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? Baum: All 14 Thompson: _Royal Book_, _Kabumpo_, _Lost King_, _Giant Horse_, _Silver Princess_, _Handy Mandy_, _Wishing Horse_, _Ozoplaning_. Neil: _Wonder City_ Snow: _Mimics_ McGraw: _Merry-Go_Round_ WHICH ["QUASI-CANONICAL"] OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? _Wicked Witch_, _Little Wizard Stories_, _Ozmopolitan_ HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ: _Zixi_, _Sea Fairies_, _Sky Island_, _Mother Goose in Prose_ HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ: None. HOW MANY NON-FF OZ BOOKS [BY NON-FF AUTHORS] HAVE YOU READ AND WHICH ONES? Buckethead: _Seven Blue Mountains, vol. 1_ (a.k.a. _Disenchanted Princess_), _Colorful Kitten_, _Healing Power_, _Lurline and White Ravens_, _Red Reera the Yookoohoo and the Enchanted Easter Eggs_, BoW/ECP: _How the Wizard Came_, _Glass Cat_, _Masquarade_, _Magic Dishpan_, _Giant Garden_, _Patchwork Bride_ ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ETC.): Well, as almost all of you know, I've written my first novel, _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_, and am co-writing my second novel, i.e. the really controversial (and in the minds of some, "evil") one in which Ozma falls in love. I also do a lot of Ozzy drawing, including the illiustrations for _Locasta_ and my collection of Oz paper dolls. MAIN OZZY AREA OF SPECIAL CONCENTRATION: My Ozzy area of specializtion is "Ozian Underdogs", or Oz characters who I feel have been treated unfairly be the exisiting Oz Canon and elsewhere. My goal is in my own writings to give these long-neglected and/or discriminated against charcters just compensation. The main "Ozian Underdogs" whose honors I am defending are: The Good Witch of the North -- According to the Oz Canon, the GWN ceased to exist in Thompson's _Giant Horse_, but I believe that Melody's "switcheroo"spell (see section 4.4 of the Ozzy Digest FAQ) allows for Locasta (the GWN whom Orin/Tattypoo was disguised as) to reappear and play an influential role in Oz. The Adepts at Sorcery -- In the Oz Canon (and until now, out of it as well), the Adepts appear only near the end of _Glinda_, and have not been heard from since...But as in my Ozzy writings they are my "informants", I have been able to find out much more about them...Including their individual personalities, their areas of magical expertise, and the fact that they are Locasta's granddaughters. Jellia Jamb -- Jellia plays a substantial role in the first two Oz books, and in _Land_ especially she endears herself to the reader as a sassy, mischievious, almost Moliere-ian sort of maid. But in subsequent books she largely disappears, and when she does show up, she is presented, IMHO, as a one-dimensional neat-freak. But in my writing Jellia is showing her previous spunk and spirit. WHAT ARE YOUR MAIN MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? All my MOPPeTs I've stated before, and they are described in detail in the Ozzy Digest FAQ and/or MOPPETS.TXT in the Ozzy Digest file archive, but I'll hit the high points here: "Switcheroo" Spell: I believe that Melody's "switcheroo" spell that Mombi uses to switch Ozma and Tip's bodies was also performed on Locasta and Orin, so that the Good Witch of the North is still a separate, distinct person (just as Melody reveals that Tip is). The "Magic of Everything": I believe that there is a fundamental set of incantations that lie at the root of all others. The "Magic of Everything" describes the inner workings of Magic, and how Magic can be reconciled with the Laws of Physics (which I speculate to be by and large indentical in the Ozzy universe and in ours). ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:57:26 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Ted Nesi wrote: >My question is this - I just read >the Dover edition of "Marvelous Land" (I had read an old, quite abridged >edition with strange illustrations) and at the end the Scarecrow becomes >the Royal Treasurer...I thought they didn't use money in Oz? I can >understand a treasurer for diamonds, rubies, emeralds, etc. but the >illustrations clearly showed many coins and even a few checks and bills. >Can anyone explain this? The level-one answer is that Baum had absolutely no idea he was making a secondary universe at the time, and was occasionally careless. The level-two answer is that the abolition of money came only after Ozma came to the throne and had time enough to consider the question. Bob Spark wrote: > Is it just my overstimulated imagination or do I hear echoes of >C.S. Lewis' quite excellent _Out Of The Silent Planet_, _Perelandra_, >and _That Hideous Strength_ trilogy? Given that Lewis was a professor of mediaeval and renaissance literature, it is almost certain that he had something of the sort in the back of his mind when he wrote his unfortunately-untitled trilogy. One of his non-fiction books, "The Discarded Image", is written expressly as an introduction for modern students to what everybody in the world "just knew" from classical times to early modern, and cosmology is a large part of it. (Of course he also takes care to point out what they did _not_ believe, noting, for example, that it was known from ancient times that the earth is round and that its size, compared to the universe, can be approximated as zero.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:35:21 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-25-97 Message text written by "Dave L. Hardenbrook" >Trivia: Name the only episode where Kirk and Spock went from one transporter pad directly to another transporter pad.< Sounds like "The Trouble with Tribbles." :-) My entry was "Forever in Oz," where Nick and Nimmee Amee not only meet again, they get back together! Just call me an incurable romantic at heart. :-) Also had a part in "Ozplayers" and "That Ozzy Feeling" as well. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:35:02 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Barbara: Melody's essays may be on her web page. If not, I can mail them to you. The total file size is about 75K. Dick Randolph: Actually, Dave gets mail from Jellia Jamb, who keeps us informed on all the goings-on in the Royal Palace :-) Age on near-Oz countries: It seems to me that people in these countries do age, although much more slowly. In _Pirates_, Thompson says that people such as Captain Salt and At are "liable to go on for centuries", so we can assume that the child characters would remain children ar at the most teeners for about a century. IMHO, Bud and Fluff could probably pass for high-schoolers or young college students. Bear: I'm assuming that $50 back in those days for a young kid was probably at least a week's wages? Kiex: Merely being on the other side of the looking glass would not be sufficient, since the East-West directions change. This would cause the Sun to rise over the Winkies and set over the Munchkins. March Laumer himself felt this was a more symbolic arrangement, with the "Golden Dawn" and the "Blue of the Evening". Dave: I'll begin diggin at once for the Questionaire. Does anybody remember in general when we did this? Ted: Welcome to the Ozzy Digest! I'm sure you'll find that it exceeds your expectations. I'll try to shed some light on the Scarecrow's new position at the end of _Land_. If you study the book carefully, you will find that he was stuffed with cash when they were outside of Oz, so the origin of the money is easy to explain: The Jackdaws, living outside of Oz, plundered it from other non-Oz countries where "THe Big Green" is inj use. As for the Scarecrow being made Treasurer, it also can be explained. Please note that he is the treasurer of the Winkie Country only, as the Tin Woodman gives him the job, not Ozma. Anyway, from an Oz-as-literature perspective, we can answer it this way. Baum has not yet made Oz the idealistic uptopian paradise that appears in later books. In _Wizard_, Dorothy sees green pennies in the Emerald City and earlier on in the book in question, the grumpy ferryman refuses to take Tip and crew across without money. Clearly, Baum thought that money was used in Oz, at least early on. From an Oz-as-history perspective, we can assume that after Ozma, after ascending the throne, began to change things to the more free-and-open society described in _Emerald City_. Money was not totally eliminated, though, and before Ozma's reign, it was probably common enough for the Tin Woodman to have need of a good treasurer. Nice signature at the end. Be sure to eat your Vita-Meata-Vega-Min! :-) Libraries: I was one of the lucky ones. I lived with my Aunt at the time I got into Oz, and she had the whole Baum 14. Steve: The death the two beings in the Tin Woodmans story of Dyna and the Blue Rug, while a little unusual, is not impossible. It was still relatively early on in Ozma's reign, and total deathlessness may not have have had a complete strangehold on the country. In other words, people and animals may not die of old age, but accidents could still happen. I never knew that Neill did the illos for that book in color. The toast scene must be spectacular. Dave: it looks like Dan may have some competition for the hand of Ozma, but I'm sure he'll win out in the end :-) Polychrome is still mine, though :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:15:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Profile From Baringer Hi folks, here is mine... since I'm a recent subscriber. NAME: Kieran F. Miller DATE OF BIRTH: May 28, 1970 HOME: Baton Rouge, Lousy-ana PROFESSION: Computer Consultant, starving student. LEVEL OF EDUCATION: Bachelor's Degree in Computer Graphic Design AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ: 13 HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ: Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE OZZY DIGEST: Chris Dulabone OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO: None PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS): Books. The movie is completely sacrilegous. HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? All! (but I own none!) THOMPSON? All! NEILL? All! COSGROVE-PAYS? All! McGRAW? All! WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? About 30...? HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? All! HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? About 5 or 6 ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) Assisting Vegout and Ozbucket on their Website MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? Artwork WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? What's a MOPPeT? Is that anything like a Jim Henson puppet? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:18:28 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: FW: Wizard of Oz CD Am passing the following inquiry on to the Digest members. If anyone knows what the answer to this is, please email Margo directly (she is not on the Digest). I think she is referring to the TV production of last year. But haven't heard that it was released as a CD. Bill in Ozlo > ---------- > From: mwater@tc3net.com[SMTP:mwater@tc3net.com] > Sent: 29. juli 1997 18:06 > To: piglet@piglet.com > Subject: Wizard of Oz CD > > I am searching for a recording made within the past few years of a > stage > production of the WOO. It featured Jewel as Dorothy, Jackson Browne > as > Scarecrow, Roger Daltry as Tin Man, etc. Know it exists, have a > relative with copy, but her source is no longer in business. Any > leads? email: mwater@tc3net.com > Thanks. Margo. > ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:38:14 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff Question for all: Is THE WOOZY prominently featured in any Oz books (FF and non FF) after PATCHWORK GIRL? Thank you in advance! Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:54:09 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission On the question of librarian censorship of Oz: The town library in Longmeadow, Massachusetts carried the Oz books for circulation in the 1950s. As I wrote earlier, it was more civilized time and place. :-) This will be my last Digest submission until I return from the Munchkin Convention. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:37:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: question about oz in other (fwd) If anyone can help Suzanne with her inquiries, I'm sure she'd appreciate it. Since she is not a "Digest" subscriber, please send any responses directly to her. --Eric "Almost done with version 1.2 of my FAQ..." Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 30 Jul 1997 13:41:17 U From: Suzanne Berman Subject: question about oz in other question about oz in other countries i visited your oz web site and was quite impressed by all of the information there. i am wondering if you might be able to help me with a research question i have been having some trouble with. i am trying to figure out how well-known oz is in other countries. specifically, do people abroad make the same connections as people in the states do when mention is made of oz or oz-related characters, etc? i am interested in the following countries in particular: United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden/Scandinavia, Japan and Australia. do you have any information on this subject, or could you point me in the right direction for my research? i truly appreciate your time and thank you in advance. sincerely, suzanne berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:15:38 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 First I would like to wish all the Munchkin attendees among us a great convention. I wish I could be there (they have the best food at any Oz convention, their Sunday Brunches are to die for!) Earl Abbe, I hope you get many takers on your offer to buy a drink. Ted asked about the Scarecrow as treasurer of Oz at the end of LAND. At that time Oz was not a cashless society, it became one during Ozma's reign. Even then money sometimes was important. Prince Tatters, in GRANDPA, went in search of a princess and a fortune. David Hulan: When I said the Wichita Public Library did not allow children to take out their first edition WIZARD, I did not mean to suggest that adults could check it out. When I spoke there, the children's librarian took the book out of a locked case and I was able to determine that it was indeed a first state (I had my trusty BIB OZ with me). That was the first time I actually saw the boxed colophon. Tomorrow the Summer School ends at Pitt State and for the next three weeks I will be at the mercy of a few places on campus that will be open and have computers (the library for one) to get my e-mail until things re-open in a few weeks. By then, God willing, my office with be restored to me with my own computer. I will try to keep in touch in the interim. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 97 10:42:50 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "I HEAR A BEAT...HOW SWEET!" Douglas Silfen wrote: >The Tin Man found an imposter Nimee Amee. >One day he will get a kind and loving heart and find >the real Nimee Amee waiting for him and they will marry. Have you met our own Melody Grandy (See her message in today's Digest)? :) :) THE POLL: Thanks for posting my response, Bear...Maybe others can use it as an "Example ballot". :) (I did however abridge it somewhat for space's sake...) BOOK CONTEST: Melody wrote: >My entry was "Forever in Oz," where Nick and Nimmee Amee not only meet >again, they get back together! Just call me an incurable romantic at heart. >:-) Also had a part in "Ozplayers" and "That Ozzy Feeling" as well. I gather Melody considers it okay the spill the beans now about our book... :) _That Ozzy Feeling_ is the true title of the book I have been refering to as "The Fairy Princess of Oz", and which Melody co-wrote with me... This is the book in which Ozma falls in love with and marries a sweet, freckle-faced young fellow named Dan, and Glinda likewise falls for and marries Zim the Flying Sorcerer. I'm currently composing a page for my website devoted to both _That Ozzy Feeling_ and my Locasta book, including a defense against those who still insist that a story in which Ozma or Glinda get married would be even more blasphemous than suggesting that the Big Bang theory is the tiniest bit flawed. (Which some bold astronomers do, and get even more flak for it than I do.) OZZY E-MAIL: Tyler is right that most of my E-mail comes from Jellia, but I get some from Ozma as well, and of course I have gotten E-mail from the Three Adepts, who (in _Locasta_) built the magical machine that makes Internet access in Oz possible. :) THE MOPPET SHOW: Kieran F. Miller asked what a MOPPeT is. I quote from the FAQ: >MOPPeT is an acronym coined by Digest member Eric Gjovaag, and it stands >for "My Own Personal Pet Theory". A MOPPeT refers to an individual's own >conjecture about some aspect of Oz that cannot be substantiated by any >material in the "Famous Forty", the "bible" of our knowledge of Oz. BTW, I will be releasing the new version of the Ozzy Digest FAQ real soon! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************