] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 1, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:29:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Questionnaire: Newbies should feel free to mail me their responses if they wish to do so. I'd suggest using BOTH my e-mail addresses, since neither one seems entirely reliable at the moment. Well, AOL is reliable, but sometimes unattainable with busy circuits. #1. robino@tenet.edu #2. Ozmama@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:47:42 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Robin: I got OZIANA sometime last week (Thursday or Friday, I think), but forgot to mention it. I agree; it's good, and there's a lot of material from Digest folks in it. Incidentally, for the rest of you (since Robin knows this), I've completed an Index to Oziana, 1971-1996 (meaning the whole thing up through last year). It hasn't been decided yet what it will cost, but I hope it will be listed as available in the next list of offerings from the IWOC this fall. (I may go ahead and add the 1997 issue to it while I'm waiting; there should be room without adding a page.) Ted: Money was apparently still used in Oz at the time of LAND, since the ferryman in an early part of the book wouldn't transport Tip, the Sawhorse, and Jack across a river because he had no money. But the money in the Scarecrow was what he was stuffed with in the Jackdaws' Nest (which was outside Oz) after he sacrificed his straw to save Tip and the Woggle-bug. As a note, he ended the book as Royal Treasurer for the Tin Woodman and the Empire of the Winkies, not for Ozma and Oz as a whole. In fact, the evidence is that the Wizard, the Scarecrow, and Ozma at the end of LAND only ruled the Emerald City area; it was sometime between the end of LAND and the beginning of OZMA that Ozma came to rule all Oz. (And it's only in later books that there's any evidence that Ozma's ancestors ruled all Oz; I don't think that Baum was thinking along those lines - from an Oz-as-literature point of view - at the time he wrote the first two books. At that time I think he thought of Oz as consisting of five independent countries.) Bob: >Is it just my overstimulated imagination or do I hear echoes of >C.S. Lewis' quite excellent _Out Of The Silent Planet_, _Perelandra_, >and _That Hideous Strength_ trilogy? I think it's more that Lewis was echoing Greco-Roman "science". He obviously didn't think much of the modern version. Incidentally, although I enjoyed the "Silent Planet" trilogy the first time I read it, as a college student, when I reread it later I found the first two books rather boring, with Ransom spending most of his time sitting around being lectured. And when that wasn't happening the anti-science bias turned me off. _That Hideous Strength_, while also anti-science, at least had the virtue of not being boring. YMMV. Earl: Your informant probably mixed up the Maneken Pis and the Little Mermaid, which is the really famous statue in Copenhagen. Images of both are prime tourist souvenirs for their respective cities (like the Eiffel Tower for Paris and the Houses of Parliament for London). Steve: You can also add the Glass Cat, Scraps, and Victor Columbia Edison to those entities brought to life by the Powder of Life that managed to speak without lungs. (VCE did have his speaker, but that would presumably only let him play records, not speak independently.) Barb B.: No objections from me to your putting my answers to the poll/questionnaire on your Web page. And I encourage anyone reading and enjoying the Digest who hasn't responded to it to do so. (If a lot of people do it at once, Dave can make it a separate item from the Digest as he did last time. If they just trickle in two or three a day, they could be included.) I assume, since he's sounded positive about it, that Dave has no objections to the extra work for himself. Dave: Unless, like Chris D., you think Ozma is physically just a little girl (I think Chris avers that she's only 8 years old, though he's never cited any evidence for it), there's nothing perverted about wanting to marry her. If you accept Baum's statement - the only one that pins an actual age - that she looks 14 or 15 then she's physically old enough for marriage (that was considered sort of late through much of human existence), and although 14 or 15 isn't mentally and emotionally old enough for marriage in our present society (even though it happens), mental and emotional age are surely more closely related to chronological than physical age - and chronologically Ozma is older than any of us! (Even if we only count from when she was born as a human, and not her fairy beginnings.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:28:50 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Gordon Birrell: I was thinking some more about the possibility that the bit of music in the dedication to "Road" is a quotation from the 1902 stage "Wizard." I wonder if anyone in the group has (or knows someone who has) music for the "Ball of All Nations" group of songs. The "Irish" song includes a line, "Arrah, come all ye now and listen," that would fit those notes, and a song about how the "Patsy Casey twins" didn't get christened because they couldn't agree on a place would be sort of appropriate, in a comically backhand way, to a dedication to a newborn grandchild. Barbara Belgrave: You asked about the Wogglebug's "Ode to Ozma." I wonder if someone (Robin?) knows the music from "The Wogglebug" to say if there's a song in the play that might plausibly be considered the Wogglebug's "Ode to Ozma." (I suppose it would be too Wogglebuggish to hope that Melody Grandy would comment on some of these grand melodies?) Jane Albright: If it isn't a question you've taken up in a previous Gazette, you might draw on the question discussed a bit in the Oz Digs lately: Who are the guests from outside the Oz books invited to Ozma's "Road" birthday party, what stories do they come from, and do they show up again? Answers: from "Dot and Tot in Merryland," Queen Dolly (mentioned "Magical Mimics") and Candy Prime Minister; from "John Dough and the Cherub, " John Dough and Chick the Cherub (both mentioned "Magic"), also Parabruin, Hilanders, and Lolanders; from "Zixie of Ix," Bud (mentioned "Magic"), Fluff, and Zixi (mentioned "Magic," "Wishing Horse," and "Silver Princess"); from "Life and Adventures of Santa Claus," Santa Claus (mentioned "Ozma," "Magic," "Merry-go-Round," and appears in "Queer Visitors" episode "How the Wogglebug and His Friends Visited Santa Claus"), also Ryls and Knooks. A related question might be: Who are the people not from the Oz books on the "Road" enpapers? Answer: Ali Dubh, Sir Pyse Bocks, Brotherhood of Failings, Duo the Two-Headed Dog, and Jules Grogrande, all from "John Dough." Perhaps also it would be appropriate to put in a listing of museums with notable Oz material around the country? // Congratulations on the Denslow-Roycroft acquisitions! Doug Parker: Enjoyed the library recollections. Barbara Belgrave: enjoyed the computerese Oz castle. Bear: I don't think you re-read the message you posted yourself to which I was replying when you replied to me. To repeat: (1) you complained, What sort of a person steals a child's pet dog?; (2) I replied, Shaggy was not stealing Toto, he was stealing apples and presumably intended to free Toto when he got out of sight; (3) you replied, Stealing is stealing, and added sarcastically, "Is this modern thinking?"; and (4) I commented, "If you don't think stealing a child's dog is significantly worse than stealing a few apples, you shouldn't have asked the original question." I suppose it's inaccurate to say you shouldn't have asked the original question, since at the time you thought Shaggy intended to steal Toto. But your stealing-is-stealing answer, in the context of that sequence of messages, seems to imply that you think stealing a few apples is just as bad as stealing a child's dog. If you do, that point could be argued (or dismissed as something-we-agree-to-disagree-on) -- but it seems unlikely that you really think stealing a few apples is just as bad as stealing a child's dog. (This seems an overly-lengthy answer, even verging on Rigmarolese, but there didn't seem to be a shorter way to do it.) Sorry it seems like a "flame" to you, but wasn't so intended. Tyler Jones and David Hulan: Perhaps it might be supposed that the no-aging spell over Oz has to some extent leaked out over the other countries around Oz over time, and that might be a reason to suppose that Chick and Bud and Fluff and Inga (and, for that matter, Evardo and the Evians) are close to the same age as when first seen. Douglas Silfen: The Woozy has a fair-sized role in "Lost Princess," but otherwise is only mentioned in the later Oz books. Harry Mongold (am I remembering the name right?) used him as the title character, in "The Woozy of Oz," which he self-published several years back. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:04:08 -0700 From: mbert@swbell.net Subject: Ozzy Digest As a new subscriber of the "Ozzy Digest", I have been spending the last two weeks just lurking about....absorbing the wisdom of those who post. Let me tell you....you have opened my eyes to a whole new realm. (more on this later!) OZ Books in Libraries: I had thought that this one had died some time ago...but I was in "BookStop" here in Austin TX recently and they were doing a 'Banned Books' display...and there it was..the WWO, along with Huckleberry Finn. In Round Rock, TX, just north of Austin, WWO was one of the recently targeted books by a radical right wing group. Of course, what do you expect from a county that almost kicked Apple Computers out of the area for offering domestic partnership benefits to their employees. I believe too, that the reasoning behind this is the use of magic and 'good witches' in the books. Wizard of Oz CD: Bill: Yes, there was a CD done of the 1995 "Wizard of Oz In Concert" special. It was offered by Turner Networks in a special,limited set, which included a script of the movie, a THX remastered video of the "Wizard of Oz", a video of the concert, the CD and several still shots from the 1939 film. My roommate suprized me with this set for Christmas. I wonder how he knew I was into the WWO...other than the fact that he often refers to the hallway as the 'Yellow Brick Road'. One question....In the WWOIC CD and video, much of the music that was cut from the 1939 film was restored. I want to know why the last verse of 'Over the Rainbow' was cut from the film. As far as I am concerned, this is the most moving portion of the song. As a new member, I will now move on to the 'questionaire'...oh gawd...I hate tests!!! NAME: Robert Schroeder, Jr DOB 1/22/57 Residence: Austin TX Profession: Retired / Health Unit Coordinator LOE: Associate Degree/Nursing Age of Discovery: oh geez, had to around 7 or 8, when I first remember seeing the 1939 film on CBS. How Discovered See above... How found Digest Couldn't sleep...websurfing....it happens! OZ Organizations Lifetime member of 'Friends of Dorothy' Primary Interest Film..but thanks to the Digest, I am beginning to look more towards the books. Currently collecting OZ related goodies...including autographs of the stars of the 1939 film. How Many Books: none...but am going to correct this soon! Current OZ Projects: I'm more interested in the spiritual aspects of OZ. Nothing concrete, yet... MOPPeTs Miss Piggy, Kermit, Elmo, Sweetums...what...Moppets you say? Oh well, never mind! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:57:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Ok guys, question: Does anyone know which of the FF are supposed to be the hardest to find in first edition? And what, say, a Fine first ed of Tin Woodman or Mint (with jacket) first of ed of Silver Princess is worth in these days and times? Sarah Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:34:50 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Re: Oz In Libraries: Our library here in Chula Vista, CA, had the Baum Oz books in the late 60's. (And they were usually checked out, too.) They only had one copy each of _Road_ and _Patchwork Girl_, which forced me to have to buy these volumes--which led me to have to buy all of them... Re: Steve Teller "A genuinely Ozzy (or at least Baum-y) event is scheduled for Aberdeen, SD August 8-10. Jane Albright and I will be there representing IWOC and many serious events are planned." I understand there is a HUGE controversy surrounding this event regarding some Baum editorials in his newspaper in the 1880's. Re: "The teamsters union was a very bad union, and should not be used as >a stick to beat all unions." Not to delve too much into a non-Ozzy issue here, but the key word in the above is *was* and also the fact that until recently the teamsters was the only union that was aligned with an opposite political party than the other unions. (Whew, did I manage to say that in a politically correct way?) Re: Polychrome's appearances She also makes an appearance in Lucky Bucky in a chapter entitled "Over The Rainbow" Re: Daves "Before terminating my AOL account, I tried to E-mail the elusive JelliaJamb through it, but with no success. I DID however discover about 40 people on AOL with "Ozma" in their screen names...." Has anyone tried to sign on to AOL with an "Ozzy" screen name? It's impossible! They're all taken! When I had AOL I tried to have an "Ozzy" screen name; I even went through the trouble of looking up fairly obscure names in _Who's Who in Oz_ with no luck. I finally settled on the name AOL gave me. All I can say it that if you're going to try to get an "Ozzy" screen name on AOL, you'd better have a good imagination and some time. Robin's Ozmama is a good example. Re: Dave's "It was also interesting to discover that there are (male) fans of Oz online who happily stated in their bios to be in love with Ozma and wanted to MARRY her..." This reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode ("Miniature") where Robert Duvall falls in love with a doll in a doll house. So I suppose the moral here is just don't lose sight of the fact that Ozma is a fictional character. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:51:45 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Guess my response to yesterday's Digest didn't make it to Dave in time to be included in today's. (If it isn't in tomorrow's I'll assume it went astray somehow and re-send it, even though by then much of it will be redundant.)(People who comment that much of most of my posts is redundant will get a superciliousstare.) Doug: It's only in a few books that it's said that living beings in Oz don't die. It does appear that after Ozma's accession (or restoration) no human dies of natural causes (though one of Billina's chicks dies of the pip), but there are many occasions when Ozites are destroyed, by accident or design. I don't think _time_ moves very slowly in Oz compared to here - if it did, then those Oz characters who return to America after days or weeks of adventuring in Oz wouldn't come back to find a similar amount of time had passed here. The aging process must be slowed, if not stopped, but not time itself. The only way to say that Oz is physically on our Earth and in our dimension is to say that several of the FF books are not real Oz history. Chris D. is quite willing to do this, and that's his privilege, but I prefer to accept all the FF as containing only minor errors, not flat-out fiction. That is, I have no problem saying that the Royal Historians had a tendency to mix up east and west - they were probably just directionally impaired, like my wife - but, for one classic example, Dorothy drifts from somewhere between America and Australia to Ev in less than 24 hours in OZMA, but Peter swims to an island a couple of days' sail from Ev when he's washed overboard off Cape Hatteras in PIRATES. If Oz and its continent are on our planet and in our dimension, one of those stories doesn't contain a simple error; one of its major plot elements simply can't be true. I could multiply examples almost indefinitely. Tyler: If we postulate that aging in the countries around Oz was slowed down by a factor of 10 or so compared to our aging rate it might solve the problem some of us had with Zixi a while back. She was 683 years old; if this really just meant she was physically about what a 68-something woman would be like in America, then her various deeds don't seem so far-fetched. On the other hand, Baum says that graybeards around her table had heard their grandfathers say that she had appeared the same when they were children - which would seem to imply that in Ix, at least, it _isn't_ normal to live 600-odd years, so if there's a slowing factor it's clearly not as much as 10. Polychrome is only yours because I'm already happily married! :-) Douglas again: The Woozy has a smallish but significant role in LOST PRINCESS. He's mentioned in a few of the other books (SCARECROW, OJO, WISHING HORSE, MAGICAL MIMICS, SHAGGY MAN), but doesn't do anything of any consequence that I recall. Speaking of the Woozy, though, reminds me that I've been wondering whatever happened to Aaron Adelman? I don't recall a post from him in months. He didn't unsubscribe, did he? Earl: Based on what I've been reading, if libraries' carrying Oz books is the criterion of civilization, the '50s were less civilized than the '90s most places, with Longmeadow, MA, being one of the exceptions. Steve: I didn't really _think_ the Wichita Public Library would let a 1st-1st WOO circulate, even to adults; that's why I phrased it, "I'm surprised if a library would let such a copy circulate at all." If I'd thought you meant they let it circulate I'd have said "I'm surprised that..." Hope you don't have too much trouble keeping in touch. Dave: I think it's OK to discuss our books openly now. (Although I can't imagine that the judges didn't recognize yours in any case. Neither Robin nor Steve guessed mine - I hope not because they didn't think I'd have written anything that bad...) Though I'd intended to title my book _Professor Woggle-bug of Oz_, I submitted it under the title _The Magic Carpet of Oz_, and that's probably a better title for it anyhow. The good prof is an important character, but probably not the most important, and the carpet is the source of the main thread of the plot. I look forward to your new Ozzy Digest FAQ; let us know when it's out. (As if you wouldn't! ;-)) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:02:31 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Doug Parker - Really enjoyed your Oz book anecdote. Barbara - Is that the old main branch in Portland? Great news in any event. Gordon >A number of people have commented on the deterioration of quality in the illustrations in later printings. I agree. The detail work is so incredibly fine in these drawings that the printing plates began to wear down almost immediately. I gather the original art is large size and has been reduced to fit the page. Years ago I got a real shock when Dave Graue sent me an original Alley Oop strip. The art really looses when it is reduced. Now strips are approaching postage stamp size and it is even worse. Sigh. Another plus for the good old days. In the 50's I was in Salem, at WU. However, I didn't make it to the public lib. Dave >It was also interesting to discover that there are (male) fans of Oz online who happily stated in their bios to be in love with Ozma and wanted to MARRY her..So at last I have proof that I'm NOT some kind of "sacriligeous" pervert!:) Sorry Dave. I certainly don't consider you a "sacriligeous pervert" but your anecdotal evidence proves nothing. You can probably find some one who is in love with Tik Tok. I'll just continue to think of you as badly misguided as to Ozma's interest in any mere mortal as a mate. :) Tyler - Back there in the "dark ages," 1953-6 I made $2.12 an hour loading freight trucks. So I had to work 23.5 hours each month to pay the union for letting me work. Lets see, 23.5/173 = 13.6%. They took 13.6% of my gross pay and then there were taxes! Growl. Do we have any current union members who can give us a current number? Arghhhhhh. Dave, it was bad enough you fooling around with Ozma's love life but Glinda, that is too much. En gard you scurvy rogue. You are toying with the reputation of the woman I love. :) Bellicosely, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:11:09 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz John K: Our responses were almost identical in nature regarding the problem of the Scarecrow being the Treasurer of the Winkies. :-) Melody: Called it! Yes, you got the one episode where we saw transporter->transporter :-) Baringer: That has got to be the most outrageous way EVER to discover Oz! :-) The comic series was, however, hilarious. You can find a more thorough definition of MOPPeT on Dave's FAQ, but it is a term coined by former Digester Eric Gjovaag and it stands for My Own Personal Pet Theory. Essentially, any idea about Oz itself can be considered a MOPPeT. Doug: I can't remember any major Woozy stories offhand, but if you're patient, Aaron Adleman's stories will be published someday, one of which called _The Woozy of Oz_ and has wuite a lot about him. Aaron: Speaking of this, any update on your stories getting published? I'm anxious to see the Asmard of Ix do battle with the Magic Machine! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:46:48, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 I have been receiving the "Ozzy Digest" for about two weeks now, but this is by first reply. Since I am new to the digest, I will begin with the survey. Name: Bob Collinge Date of Birth: 12/10/61 Residence: Newfields, New Hampshire Profession: Pastor Level of Education: I am going to Theological school. Age of Discovery: Child (Movie on TV.) 28 (books) How discovered: TV, IWOC Ozzy Digest: Jim's WOO web page Oz clubs I belong to: IWOC, Royal Club of Oz Primary Oz Interests: Anything Ozzy How many FF books read: Only 14 Baum books, no others. (Have never seen them!) Non FF Oz Books: Wicked Witch of Oz, Glass Cat of OZ, Non-Oz Baum books: 0 Non-Oz Thompson: 0 Current Oz Projects: writing book about Polychrome Main Ozzy area of concentration: Magic and rulers MOPPeTS: ??? More on "Road" later, Bob ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:18:03 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 7-31-97 Herm and Steve T: We'll miss you guys at the Munchkin Con, and, Steve, I'll be glad to sub for you in taking Earl up on his kind offer. :-) Dick (Off to see the Munchkins) Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Nesi Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 X-Originating-IP: [207.180.8.171] >NAME Ted Nesi >DATE OF BIRTH 5/31/84 >HOME Massachusetts >PROFESSION Student >LEVEL OF EDUCATION 6th Grade (I'm going into 7th) >AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ 9 or 10 >HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ Read a copy of "Wizard" and found the other titles on the back...so I checked them all out of my local library. >HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ Dave's web site. >OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO None. >PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) Tie. >HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? >NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? 14 >WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? 0 >HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 3 >HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 >ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ >BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) A web site. >MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? The books. >WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Oz is somewhere on the face of the Earth. People aged in Oz for a long time, then aging was stopped and people were left at the same age. (Most people, see Moppet #3) Children in Oz must grow to a certain age, around 9-13, before they stop aging. --------------- I want to thank everyone who made such prompt replies to my Royal Treasurer question! Today I have a few more. What are people's views on "Rinkitink in Oz"? It seemed to me that the ending and title were simply latched on to make sure it would sell. I found it only mildly entertaining, but I'd blaim this more on the fact that I was expecting an Oz book, rather than an outside-of-Oz-until-the-very-end book. Does anyone know of a place to buy Thompson books? I've read the first 14, but I've ALWAYS wanted to read the Thompson series! And third, does anyone think Oz would make an interesting television show? What I think they could do is this: each book would be serialized into half-hour segments. Say, each book makes up 14 segments (purely a number picked out of think air). If they went through the entire book, paid attention to detail, and stayed faithful to Baum/Thompson/Neill/etc. they could have a really interesting show! I think it could go on The Disney Channel or Nickelodeon. It would make a nice companion piece to the latter's "Wubbulous World of Dr. Seuss." Sorry for rambling, I'm not sure if that is outlawed on this list yet. :) Ted *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** * TED'S LUCILLE BALL PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/LUCINDEX.HTM * * * * TED'S MUPPET PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/mupindex.html * * * * CLASSIC TELEVISION * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/TVINDEX.HTM * * * * THE UNOFFICIAL "WIZARD OF OZ" HOME PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9151/ * * * * "Do you pop out at parties? Are you unpoopular? Well are * * you??" - Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball, "I Love Lucy," 1952) * *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:19:05 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Hi there (and a hearty welcome to all the new conferees) > Oh sadness! > > In response to questions about Munchkin attendance, I regret to inform that I > have to go to Switzerland on Saturday and so will miss the Munchkins gala. You know, Herm, If your trip is for pleasure I'm having a hard time working up any sympathy. If it is not, bite my tongue. > David - Sorry, I'm tired. I'll let someone else take a turn at defending > Capitalism. Dick? Earl? Tyler? Back to Oz. Me too. I'm tired. I'll quote Molly Ivens: > When political disagreements are made into a moralistic crusade -- complete > with smug self-righteousness and the stink of sanctimony -- our ability to > resolve them vanishes, our divisions deepen and somewhere ahead lies something > that looks like Bosnia. > Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 09:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest I was fortunate in that I grew up in a community which seemed to have no ingrained hostility towards the Oz books during the '50s. The local library (Brugemeier Memorial in thr city of Monterey Park) had all but a handful of the famous 39 during the '50s and quickly aquired Merry-Go-Round when it was published. The Main branch library of Alhambra (the neighboring city to the north) which i was able to get to after I was in High School, had a less extensive, but still fairly respectable collection. Alhambra had, I think it was 2, which Montery Park was missing. I theink Tim Woodman was one of them, but am no longer certain. Neither of these had Emerald City, which I did not read until I was into my '20s. Nor did either of them have Tik-Tok, so I was stuck with the coverless copy which had survived Ma and her siblings, sans the last two pages (very irritating). I believe that one of the Thompsons was also MIA, but I cannot remember which one. Since Ma refused to purchase any books for me other than the Little Golden variety, this was just as well. David; Yes there is a comment at the end of John Dough which states that Chick grew up and remained exceedingly popular with the people of Hiland and Loland. But that, strangely enough, none of the records mention whether the Grand Booleywag was a man or a woman. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 09:21:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Bear: It was not Cleveland's fathering a child ot of wedlock that was part of America's survival as a nation, it was the fact that this fact did not prevent him from being elected president, that he was not condemned to obscurity by an outraged populace that enabled "Grover the Good" as he was called to serve his country in its highest office. Sometimes morally upright persons make bad leaders, sometimes they make good leaders. My point is that the personal morality of an individual is not an accurate barometer of his/her effectiveness as a leader. Adolf Hitler was personally a very moral person. Tyler: The color work on the Rand McNally Junior ROAD TO OZ was not attributed to Neill, but then he rarely (except for EMERALD CITY and possibly DOTWIZ did the color work on the regular Oz books. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 12:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest files Dear Dave, Have you changed anything recently re. transmission of Ozzy Digest files? Starting about last week, whenever the Digest comes into my e-mail showing that there is a file attached, I can't seem to open the file (using procedures which worked previously. In fact, the file doesn't even appear in my Download Manager. Either its not being downloaded by AOL, or its being stored in some dark recess of my hard disk. But my "Find" utility doesn't show it anywhere! Has anyone else complained? It may just be some corruption in my AOL software. Best, Herm ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 16:48:44 -0400 From: Barry Adelman Subject: Recipes of Oz (actually Mo) For all those who are interested, here is the recipe for pickled peaches. When it was referred to in _The Magical Monarch of Mo_, I thought it was a joke Baum made up, but when looking through a cookbook today it turned out it was not. If anyone makes this, let me know how it comes out. PICKLED PEACHES 1/2 peck peaches 3 cups cider vinegar whole cloves 1 ounce stick cinnamon 1 1/2 pounds light brown sugar Scald peaches. Dip in cold water for 1 minute. Peel. Place 4 or more whole cloves in each piece of fruit. Prepare syrup of sugar, vinegar, and cinnamon. Add peaches and cook gently until tender. Pack in hot, sterilized jars. Cover with syrup. Seal at once. Pickled pears or apples: Substitute pears or apples for peaches. (London, Anne, and Bishov, Bertha Kahn, eds.(1952). _The Complete American-Jewish Cookbook_. Cleveland: The World Publishing Company, pg. 526.) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 97 14:19:54 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MORE AOL TROUBLE???: Herm Bieber wrote: >Dear Dave, >Have you changed anything recently re. transmission of Ozzy Digest files? >Starting about last week, whenever the Digest comes into my e-mail showing >that there is a file attached, I can't seem to open the file (using >procedures which worked previously. Has anyone else had this problem? I am doing everything as always... MOPPETS and MUPPETS: Robert Schroeder, Jr wrote: >MOPPeTs Miss Piggy, Kermit, Elmo, ... This isn't Ozzy, but can you tell me who Elmo is? I know from kids' (and some grownups') teeshirts that he's a red monster, but that's all I know...Cookie Monster eats cookies, Telly Monster is a worry-wart and Grover is just "Your ol' pal, cute, furry, lovable Grover", but what is Elmo's claim to fame? (Excuse my ignorance, but I stopped watching Sesame Street around the time they took on a disco beat.) IT IS BETTER TO HAVE LOVED AND LOST THAN TO...HMMM...I FORGET NOW...: :) Bear wrote: >You can probably find some one who is in love with Tik Tok. Actaully, my Sinclair ZX-11 has been smitten for years... FAQ'S THAT I NOW MUST ASK: :) I'm almost done with the new FAQ, but I need some info. that I hope someone here can give me: -- Citations for _The Munchkins of Oz_ (the new book about the Munchkins in the MGM film), and that 50th anniversary book on the movie whose name I can't remember... -- Any info. anyone has about the Shirley Temple TV version of _Land of Oz_ and also the new "Oz Kids" TV show/video -- The exact titles of various _Wizard of Oz_ soundtrack albums that are available (also where the sheet music can be found). -- The true story of "Over the Rainbow"'s narrow escape from meeting "The Jitterbug"'s fate on the cutting room floor. Thanks ahead! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 2, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:22:29 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - I guess we should never assume we know what a person means even though we read what they say. :) I understood you to say that it was all right for Shaggy to put Toto in his pocket because he was just doing it so he could pick up a few apples. It also seems you are reading his mind by assuming he is going to release Toto later. I will go on record that his behavior is not all right with me. If you walk into a jewelry store and put a diamond ring in your pocket I don't think the management would be too receptive if you told them it was just so you could pick up (steal) a few inexpensive pieces of costume jewelry and you were going to put the diamond back. I may be confused as to your position but this seems as indefensible as Shaggies behavior. I am guessing that this is really two antithetical views of private property colliding. Nes pas? And yes, I understand the difference between larceny and pilfering. Toto was the former and the apples were the latter. Scott O. >So I suppose the moral here is just don't lose sight of the fact that Ozma is a fictional character. You can't be serious! Next you will tell us there is no Santa Claus. Bob Spark - Aren't you too young to be tired? And to be quoting old Molly? Stephen >My point is that the personal morality of an individual is not an accurate barometer of his/her effectiveness as a leader. I just want to get this clear. Is a corollary for you that personal morality should not be a consideration in the selection of leaders? >Adolf Hitler was personally a very moral person. Surely you jest. I hope! I have seen indefensible statements but this is a classic. Herm - Did you ever get my retransmission? It sounds like the same problem you had with me on compuserve. No other aol friends have had a problem. Tyler - Would you please handle any political/economic/philosophical questions addressed to me for a few weeks. I am tired and would like a vacation. Tiredly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 18:56:06 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff Ruth, Tyler and David: Have each of you read Aaron Adelman's WOOZY OF OZ? Thanks for the information about the role of the Woozy in other books. Tyler: You say that Aaron Adelman's books will be published someday. Do you how and where a copy of THE WOOZY OF OZ can be found nowadays?? :-) David: Remember, I'm only on Book 11 now! :-) The aspect of death and "destruction" is very confusing in Baum's books. Didn't the bees get "killed" in WIZARD along with other beasts that attacked our heroes? Later, it is said that no one ever dies, they are just "destroyed." My MOPPet was that death in Oz was not like death as we know it (or don't know it :-) ), but something else. For example, something like being sent into limbo without being actually dead, etc. Regarding Oz being on Earth- Well so far I haven't read anything (up to book 11) that prevents it being on Earth. However, I will defer to you since you have read all of the FF. Do some of the later FF books explain Oz to be somewhere other than Earth? Well Oz being on Earth was a NEWBIE MOPPet of mine as of book 11. Again, I shall defer to you that Oz is not on the Earth. Douglas Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 19:00:32 -0700 From: mbert@swbell.net Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest 08/01/97 Scott Olsen: About signing on to AOL with an 'Ozzy Screen Name'. I had two accounts with AOL, both with OZ in the screen name. One was "LostnOZ" and the other was "HellofrmOZ". I am currently using OZinTX on IRC, but for some reason, folks seen to think I'm a transplant from 'Down Under.' It is possible, just be creative and be prepared to explain, "No, I'm not from Sydney....I'm just a fan of the Wizard of OZ and I thought that 'Dorothy' would be a strange screen name for me." Bob Collinge: So glad to see a pastor among us. As you might have noticed, I am really into the 'spiritual' aspect of OZ, but have yet to develop a good theory. How about you? Just feel free to E-mail me! Dave: Who is Elmo? Geez, after this last Christmas season, I thought everyone knew who Elmo was. Well, he is a first grader (just 6 yrs old!), ticklish and appears on the 'Rosie O'Donnell Show', but alas, his claim to capitalist fame may be short lived, with the introduction of 'Go To Bed Fred' this upcoming holiday season. BTW...The Muppets are very OZ..Frank OZ designed most of the characters used in the 1985 'Return to OZ', along with Disney. Ok, the film was not a great success, but perhaps that is because it stayed close to the plot of the book. FAQ's Shirley Temple TV version: According to the book "The World of OZ" by Allen Eyles, (1985, HPBooks,Inc., Tucson AZ.) this TV version was directed by Victor Fleming, with Frank Gabrielson writer. It starred Shirley as Tip/Ozma, Jonathan Winters (Nikidik) Ben Blue (Scarecrow) Sterling Holloway (Jack Pumpkinhead) Gil Lamb (Tin Woodman) Agnes Moorehead (Mombi) Frances Bergen (Glinda) Arthur Treacher (Nikidik's brother) and Mel Blanc, Charles Boaz and William Keene. I suppose this TV special was Shirley's studio's way of saying "We're sorry we wouldn't lend you to MGM for that little film, but don't worry, years from now nobody will remember it." BTW, according to this book, this special really was bad...except for Agnes Moorehead's performance as Mombi and apparently, this role helped her to land the role of Endora in 'Bewitched.' Speaking of TV specials, apparently Disney has done several "OZ" type numbers or shows, after losing the rights for "Wizard of OZ", (Disney had planned on making this as an animated feature, which would have followed Snow White). Disney bought the rights to future WOZ productions in the 1950's with plans to make a two-part special drawn largely on "Patchwork Girl of OZ", which proved to be too expensive, then the studio had planned a Feature film called "The Rainbow Road to OZ" in 1957 with Annette Funicello and Darlen Gillespie starring, but alas, this too was abandoned. The Mouseketeers did do a musical number based on the planned film, all under the watchful eye of Walt himself. Disney, of course, did nothing with the rights to OZ until 1985 when 'Return' was filmed. I believe that Jim Henson Productions (the Muppet People) now have the rights to OZ. As to why "Over the Rainbow" was almost cut, I believe it was because the powers that be thought that the song produced a drag on the film overall. Perhaps, this is why the last verse was cut from the film...that verse went as follows "Someday I'll wake and rub my eyes, and in that land beyond the sky you'll find me. I'll be a laughing daffodil and leave the silly cares that fill my mind behind me." As for the "Jitterbug" as well as a large portion of the Scarecrow's dance, and a sequenence called 'Renovation' where Dorothy returns to the Emerald City with the Witch's broomstick, alas, they all fell victim to the attempts to make the movie as smooth as possible. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 00:42:18 -0500 From: Suzanne Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 Hello all! I just thought I'd finally introduce myself. I just discovered the digest earlier this week and I'm so glad. So by way of introduction, I'll fill out the questionaire. >Questionaire (Jan. 1997 Oz Digest Members Poll) >NAME: Suzanne Scherrer >DATE OF BIRTH: September 7, 1965 >HOME: St. Louis, MO >PROFESSION: Casino Dealer >LEVEL OF EDUCATION: Lots of college >AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ: >HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ: I was 5 when I first remember seeing the 1939 movie and I was 8 when I began reading the books. My third grade teacher, Miss Debra Campos, had a set of the books; older copies with the covers with the pictorial label and color plates. She allowed the more advanced readers to borrow these books from her personal collection. When I was 13? I found a copy of "The Oz Scrapbook" which led me to the IWOC. I was a member for quite a few years until I went wild in college. >HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_: I was surfing the web Monday and decided to check up on some of the Oz websites. >OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO: None currently, but I plan to remedy that soon. >PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS): I love both equally. I owe a great debt to the movie as it introduced me to the world of Oz and to the world of film. (I have been a film history major in college for 13 years.) But I love the imagery and fantasy that Baum and his successors gave us. >HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? BAUM? all >THOMPSON? the first three or four >NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW?: none unfortunately >WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ?: "The Oz Scrapbook", "The Making Of The Wizard Of Oz" and assorted others whose titles I cannot recall. >HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? :all >HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? none >ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ >BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?): none at the moment >MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION?: I'd like to persue research into Baum's silent film projects. >WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ?: I haven't any at this time, but I will keep everyone posted. I hope that covers everything. I don't have computer access from home so some of my answers are a bit sketchy. As time goes on and I get reaquainted with what is new in the world of Oz, I hope that I'll have more to contribute to the goings on here. Suzanne curiouser@rdr.net ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 02:02:04 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest: Sarah, On Oz book prices, if you are talking of very good + copies of first editions, the rarity is pretty well proportional top the price. The Hill edition of the Wonderful Wizard of Oz is the scarcest, with prices in the thousands. I would say Marvelous Land is the second hardest to find (in the first state), and Emerald City in third place. As to your specific query, I would say that a fine first of Tin Woodman (no jacket) and a mint first of Silver Princess (in jacket) would both be worth about $300 (each). Of course condition is quite subjective, and I would need to see examples of what you call fine or mint. The price of children's books, because they usually are so "loved" goes up exponentially as the condition approaches what the professional booksellers call, "as new." Bob Spark, Switzerland IS a business trip, but I work mornings and evenings with the afternoons off for hiking or whatever. I even find European Oz editions in my free time. There is a handsome new German edition of Wizard with very creative modern illustrations. But as a long-time Munchkin attendee, I AM distressed at having to miss it. And, IMHO, the Munchkins always have the best decorations of the three major conventions. On AOL problems. After several days of "lost or unreadable files, today's Ozzy Digest file appeared in my Download Manager and I was able to read it as usual. You figure! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 My survey responses (as I don't talk on the Digest much, and people may wonder who I am and why I'm there) >NAME Sarah G. Hadley (well, that's my pseudonym, but...) >DATE OF BIRTH June 30th >HOME USA >PROFESSION Student >LEVEL OF EDUCATION 9th Grade >AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ 4 or 5 >HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ Read the first book, saw the MGM film, and proceeded to find a good 30 - 35 of the other 39 books at a local library. >HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ I honestly can't remember...on the Net somewhere.... >OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO None at the time, but I'm going to rejoin the IWOC after an absence of a few years. >PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) Books all the way, but I enjoy finding out info on the various plays and films as well. >HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? >NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? After reading _Handy Mandy_ and _Silver Princess_ for the first times three weeks ago, I can say (hurrah!) that I have read every single book in the Famous Forty. >WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? All of Shanower's graphic novels, _Little Wizard Stories_, _The Cheerful Citizens of Oz_, _How the Wizard Came to Oz_, _The Visitors from Oz_, _The Wicked Witch of Oz_, _The Dinamonster of Oz_, _The Magic Dishpan of Oz_, _Invisible Inzi of Oz_, _The Giant Garden of Oz_, _The Annotated Wizard of Oz_ (does it count?), and the first two _Tales of Magic Land_ books (is the third out now?). >HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? Several, lemme see here.... _Queen Zixi of Ix_, _Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_, _The Magical Monarch of Mo_, _American Fairy Tales_, _Animal Fairy Tales_, _The Wogglebug Book_, >HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 >ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING >NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) Trying to write a book and make a website, as well as collecting information for informative booklets on each of the Baum books. >MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? The stories themselves, although I am very interested in A) gathering reference information for all things Ozzy and B) collecting the FF and non-Oz Baum fantasies in first editions, first state (I have 10! I'm getting there!). >WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Well, I'm a strong believer that the bit about the Scarecrow being the reincarnated Emperor of the Silver Islands is so much twaddle.... Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 10:55:55 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 Ruth: Queen Dolly is also mentioned, though not by name, in MAGIC. (In WISHING HORSE Merryland is mentioned, but Thompson refers to its "king". Had there been a usurpation?) Most likely all the non-Oz characters who appear on the ROAD endpapers are from JOHN DOUGH because that was the only non-Oz book (up to that time) that Neill had illustrated for Baum. Robert: Welcome to the Digest! We probably seem more book-centered than movie-centered here, but that's mostly because there are so many books and only one movie. I hope that when you have a chance to read some of the books that you appreciate them as well. Scott O.: There's certainly a group that's trying to make a controversy of the Aberdeen Baum festival because of his anti-Indian editorials when he was editor of the Aberdeen paper. Whether it's actually a "huge" controversy is harder to determine from this distance; it doesn't seem to have made the Chicago newspapers, for instance. (In fact, the festival itself hasn't made the Chicago newspapers.) It's produced some serious flaming on the Internet, to be sure, but then a lot of pretty trivial things can do that. I was once seriously flamed for saying I thought Bush was toast in September of 1992. Interesting that there are so many Ozzy screen names on AOL - and from the books at that! Might be interesting to try a mass E-mail to all the names in _Who's Who in Oz_ , inviting them to try the Digest...but it would probably be rejected as "spam". Bear: Speaking as one who also spent summers working in the 1953-56 period, I'd say that if you got $2.12 an hour for what amounted to unskilled labor, you probably benefited more from the Teamsters than it cost you. I know I made 75 cents an hour, which was the minimum wage at the time. (It went up to $1 an hour in '55 or '56, I forget which.) If it hadn't been for the Teamsters, do you really think they'd have paid more than minimum wage for loading freight trucks? Not unless you were in an area with a serious labor shortage. And this is even though the Teamsters weren't so much a union as an extension of organized crime. (And, as Scott O. pointed out, they're the only union that consistently supported the Republican party through the '70s and '80s - though I don't say that the two facts about them are related... :-)) Bob C.: Welcome to the Digest! (And you've read _Glass Cat_! *Good* man! :-) I hope you enjoyed it.) You can get most of the Thompson and all the later books of the Famous Forty either through the IWOC or Books of Wonder, and if you're a member of the IWOC and Royal Club you should know how to order them. The only ones you can't get that way are Thompson's _Yellow Knight_, _Pirates_, _Purple Prince_, and _Ojo_. Ted: _Rinkitink_ is one of my favorite Oz books, though admittedly it has little to do with Oz. It was originally written as a non-Oz book titled _King Rinkitink_, probably before _Emerald City_ - one other anomaly you can notice about it is that the Nome King's personality is that of Roquat from _Ozma_, not Kaliko or even Roquat from EC. The Oz ending was definitely tacked on to increase sales (and because Baum had a contract and it was easier to convert an existing MS than to write a whole new one). Still, I think it's one of Baum's best books; if he hadn't tacked on the Oz ending, but had let Inga free his parents by himself, it might well rival _Sky Island_ as being the one I think best of all. As I said to Bob C. above, the IWOC has all the Thompsons through _Jack Pumpkinhead_ for sale in PB, and either the IWOC or Books of Wonder (or sometimes both) have the ones from _Speedy_ on, as well as all the post-Thompson books. BoW also has _Royal Book_ out in a very nice facsimile edition, and should do the same with _Kabumpo_ when it enters PD next year, assuming RB sells well enough to justify it. Oz could make a very interesting TV series, but I'm afraid that it would be too expensive for any of the studios to be very interested. Hyperion has done a series of animated Oz tales, many of them based on one or another of the original series (or connected stories like _The Sea Fairies_), though with different characters; those are supposed to be showing on TV sometime - maybe they already have, though if so I haven't heard of it. If they draw good audiences there may be more interest in doing versions that are more faithful to the originals. If rambling were outlawed on the Digest I'd have been kicked off long ago. Not to worry. Steve: The talk about Cleveland reminds me of one of my favorite political quotes (not exact, but in essence), from some eminent person regarding the 1884 election between Cleveland and Blaine: "It would appear that Mr. Blaine leads an exemplary private life, but that his actions in the public sphere are questionable. Mr. Cleveland, on the other hand, has behaved in an exemplary manner in his public life, but his activities in the private sphere are questionable. It therefore appears most reasonable to maintain Mr. Cleveland in public life, where he excels, and retire Mr. Blain to private life, where _he_ excels." Barry: You thought pickled peaches were a joke? They're a very tasty dessert, or sweetish side dish, and one I've eaten all my life - though now that you mention it, not in quite a few years. I'll have to remedy that... (I think you can even buy them at grocery stores, though homemade are much better.) Dave: Sorry, can't help you with your FAQ questions. If they were about the books, now... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 11:04:29 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave: >-- The true story of "Over the Rainbow"'s narrow escape from meeting > "The Jitterbug"'s fate on the cutting room floor. According to Aljean Harmetz in _The Making of the Wizard of Oz_, the song was in trouble from the beginning. When Harburg first heard Arlen play the principal theme (minus the bridge) he thought the melody was too symphonic, too operatic for a little girl to sing--even though he knew it was certainly within Judy Garland's range. The two called in Ira Gershwin to help them arbitrate; Arlen played the song with less symphonic flourish; Harburg revised his opinion and wrote lyrics that helped place the song within a child's perspective. The second major hurdle was the reaction of MGM producers at a sneak preview in San Bernadino; the producers, who had reasons of their own to discredit LeRoy, complained to L. B. Mayer that a major ballad should *not* be sung in a barnyard. Either LeRoy or Arthur Freed (the accounts differ) finally convinced Mayer to keep the song in the movie. Robert Schroeder: Harmetz doesn't say anything about why the last verse of the song was cut from the movie. There may be some information on this on the recent Turner/Rhino CD that has most of the outtakes. Welcome to the Digest, incidentally! And you shouldn't hang your head in shame at not having yet read any of the Oz books. Most of us are incredibly envious that you are reading these for the first time. A couple of months ago we had a discussion going about recurrent dreams, and one dream that many people had was the delirious experience of stumbling on an unread FF Oz book in a used book store. Kieran: In your bio you exuberantly claim to have read ALL! of the non-Oz Baum books. Can this really be? All the Aunt Jane's Nieces books, and Twinkle & Cubbins, Master Key, Father Goose, the poultry book, etc. etc.?! I wonder if anyone on the Digest has in fact read the entire Baum opus, aside from Peter Hanff, Patrick Maund, and Ruth Berman. Here's another question: how many of you can name, in precise order of publication, all of the FF? Dave again: Like Herm, I haven't received any attachments with the Digest. If I'm not mistaken, the attachments were in messages that you received, and your e-mail program may not automatically forward attachments. Bear: The Salem Public Library with all those Oz books was right across the street from Willamette U.! :) --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 14:03:09 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest Hi, Does anybody know where I can get a set of all 14 Baum Oz Books by one publisher (Hardcover of Paperback, preferably with the original illustration and covers)? Thanks NAME - David Levitan DATE OF BIRTH - 4/20/84 HOME - New City, NY PROFESSION - Student LEVEL OF EDUCATION - Completed 7th Grade AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ - Don't know HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ - Got interested by an Oz poster in my school library and then was able to get all of Baum's books plus a few of Thompson's books. HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ - Dave Hardenbrook's home page OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO - none PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) - books HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW? Baum: 14, Thompson: 3 (going to read 4 more very, very soon) Neill: 3, Snow: going to read 2 very, very soon, Cosgrove-Pays: 0, McGraw: 1 WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? A few stories that were posted on web sites HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 6 HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? 0 ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?) web site MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? books WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? none as of now -- David Levitan ben.levitan@mne.net ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 97 13:01:04 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Thanks for the info. for the FAQ, everyone! OZZY AOL SCREEN NAMES: I guess another possibility is to use a lesser-known character from a non-Canonical book, like Jeremy did with Kiex. (Is there a Zim@aol.com?) :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 3 - 4, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 17:47:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Herm: What do I mean by fine and mint? Let me see here: TIN WOODMAN First edition. Fine, unfaded cover (cloth and label). A few pieces of something stuck to the label (this is not the label itself, torn. I surmise that these bits are part of a no-longer-existant jacket that was once glued to it). Great quality book, but some browning and a few fingerprints on pages. A bit of water damage at the bottom of all 12 plates. Two signatures in front...one from original owner, one from 1980s. SILVER PRINCESS First edition w/jacket. Fantastic book, looks good as new. No-one has touched this thing, except for a signature in the 'This Book Belongs To'. Some of the jacket (now protected by a plastic covering) has been worn away at the top and bottom edges. Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 18:06:35 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Today is Saturday, August 2. Six months ago I thought I would be in Wilmington, Delaware at the Munchkin Convention. Instead I'm at home. What have I done today -- chopped wood, worked on refinishing the hardwood floor in Baby Noble's (due September 4) bedroom, shopped for groceries, and (fortunately) browsed at a couple of bookstores (even bought some cheap books, though none were Oz). Needless to say, I'd rather be at MunchCon. Herm: To hike in Switzerland... that sounds like a better alternative to MunchCon than what I'm experiencing. Are you going to the Alps? I seem to remember that you enjoy birding (maybe from your AOL profile?) In that respect, I think we are also kindred spirits. I am a novice at birding (though I'm learning), but I have been a longtime outdoor recreationist and avid reader of natural history. Most recently, I finally realized my dream of changing careers and working for a non-profit environmental organization. (I used to be a journalist.) Gordon: I, too, wondered about the one or two people who say they've read *all* the non-Oz Baum books. Considering the number and scarcity of some of them, I find that astonishing. I suspect that some people (I was in this category myself not too long ago) have no idea just how prolific Baum was. I believe he wrote at least 65 books. Even if you don't count the psuedonymous ones, I think he wrote at least 40. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 15:23:14 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Bear, > Bob Spark - Aren't you too young to be tired? And to be quoting old Molly? > I suspect that our respective ages are not that dissimilar. I was born in 1940. I keep waiting for that old saw that says if you are not a liberal as a youth you have no soul and if you have not become conservative as you age you have no brain. As it happens, my political philosophy hasn't changed that much with the years (my folks were Franklin Roosevelt democrats). No brain, I guess. Molly Ivins approaches sainthood in my book. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 18:45:41 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Douglas: Lots of animals were killed in WIZARD, and although no humans but the two Wicked Witches (assuming they were actually human) died during the course of the book, there are references that make it clear that there was natural death in Oz not long before the events of that book. On the other hand, Nick Chopper's surviving being cut up requires some explanation. I have one for it, but it wasn't generally accepted when I presented it on the Digest six months ago or so. Up through book 11 - or through all of Baum, for that matter - there isn't anything that would absolutely rule out Oz being on Earth, although you have to draw on some pretty powerful magic to believe that someone could make a ladder long enough to reach from the Earth to the Moon and climb it without its being noticed by anyone in the rest of the world. Mr. Tinker's doing a fast climb if he's going to climb 250,000 miles in the few hours that a ladder could connect a given point on the surface of the Earth to a point on the Moon. And there's some powerful magic working with the tube through the center of the Earth in TIK-TOK, too, because those who fall through it would normally not come out on the other side because of friction (of which there's clearly some, from the story), and for other reasons as well. And of course, if you want to call on magic powerful enough then you could say that when Peter falls overboard off North Carolina in PIRATES he's magically wafted into the mid-Pacific. But there doesn't seem to really be any point in placing Oz on our Earth if there's such powerful magic working that (a) it can't be found on satellite photographs; (b) you can get to it from anywhere on Earth in a few hours; and (c) natural laws that apply on Earth don't apply there. This appears to me to be a distinction without a difference; if that's not the equivalent of another dimension, it has all the characteristics of one. Suzanne: Welcome to the Digest! Your profession sounds like an interesting one. Sarah: You've been around a while, so I won't welcome you, but thanks for putting in your answers to the poll. Gordon: I suspect when people refer to having read all of Baum's non-Oz books, they mean his major fantasy books - MO, DOT AND TOT, YEW, ZIXI, JOHN DOUGH, SEA FAIRIES, SKY ISLAND, and maybe MASTER KEY. Reading all the other books he wrote would be very difficult except for a true completist who's been at it for quite a long time - as you say, Peter, Patrick, and Ruth may be the only ones on the Digest, though I wouldn't be too surprised if Robin or Steve or Herm had as well. Or someone who's lurking. I can name all the FF in order of publication. I suspect that there are at least a dozen more among those who post regularly, and maybe more among the lurkers. If you're on AOL and the length of the Digest runs more than something like 10K, all but the first 2K gets converted into an attachment when it arrives, and you have to download it and read it with a word processor rather than being able to read it like normal E-mail. Just one of a number of drawbacks to AOL. David L.: You can get all 14 Baum books in a uniform mass PB edition from Del Rey, in the SF section of any good-sized bookstore. The art has been pretty badly reduced, though. I think that's the only uniform edition of all 14 that's currently in print; Books of Wonder has all them in hardcover through SCARECROW in very nice editions with color plates (or whatever color the original had), and Dover has quality PB editions of about the same books. By the year 2000 BoW will have all 14 Baums in print in facsimile hardcover editions. And welcome to the Digest! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 11:57:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi people. I still have that early edition of Dot and Tot, in near mint condition. I have ZERO fortune finding Oz books in Louisiana. Believe me! And since my collection was stolen, I have NONE save this. I would truly appreciate it if someone would trade me some Thompson books for it. I don't care about condition or edition. The only thing I care about is hardback. I'm looking to get copies of Ojo, Silver Princess, Handy Mandy, and Captain Salt. Anyone willing to trade? If not those, I'll gladly take ANY Oz books in trade. Just let me know. I appreciate your time. Thanks! Kieran Miller ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 12:06:52 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Oz Web Ring Status "jengibbs@on-ramp.ior.com" , Ted Nesi , Jim Whitcomb Hi, The Oz Web Ring is currenlty running smoothly and hopefully, there will be no more outages. We now have 6 sites currently in the ring, and a 7th site has been sent the HTML, so hopefully we will have 7 sites in a few days. We are now listed in RingWorld, the directory of web rings on http://www.webring.org. I am currently looking for volunteers to help manage the web ring when I am away from my home computer. These periods would only be a few weeks at most and happen only a few times a year. If anybody would like to help me out, please reply to this message. Thanks. -- David Levitan ben.levitan@mne.net ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:00:59, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 Happy Sunday! About the Shaggy man stealing apples: I do not believe anyone would say anything to him for "shagging" them off the ground. Dog-knapping is another story. I suppose I am in competition for Polychrome? She has always been my favorite. Being a Pastor, I have always used Oz as spiritual analogy's. I guess it is in my blood. Dave Hulan: Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed "Glass Cat". I have enjoyed all of the Oz books I have read, but I wish "Rinkitink" had more to do with Oz. I hope soon to have all of the remaining Oz books that I can get, just for reading purposes. Gordon Birrell: I doubt I could name Baum's 14 books in order! Ozzy is as Ozzy does, Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 16:16:41 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-24-97 David: You probably would not like my entry. The problem is a poor one, essentially thought of the top of the main character's head, and it doesn't work out very well. Deeper, more subtle, and more important unstated problems are solved, to an extent, however. You really think that later Baum/Thompson/Snow/Payes works should be considered apocryphal? In my work I even hinted at elements of Oziana stories... Gordon: I've always wondered (and presumed convention of the time) about such usages, and "to-morrow," "Hallowe'en," etc. That no one really uses anymore. Oz people seem to use the latter a lot though, presumably because Baum and Thompson did. Dave: Religious people who think that witches worship satan are ignorant. I have spoken with witches on the internet, and they worship nature: they're pagan, not satanist, and who is to say Baum's witches are of the wiccan religion? It is a pretty generic term. David: At both the Borders in Indianapolis (about 2-3 miles apart from one another, at most) they put the Del Rey Oz books in "Young Adult" and the BoW in "children's classics" under Baum. It would be nice id they actually put new ones on the new release shelf, and brought attention to the fact that they are by different authors. They're all organized by title, as if Baum wrote them all. I tried Seta SNES Wizard of Oz game again last night. I still think it's very poorly designed. Dan and Lynn did not accept my bad review ffor the Bugle when it came out. It's challenging for all the wrong reasons: the character control is so stiff, the characters can only fight from a standimg positon, and not while jumping or ducking. The Tin Woodman can't jump, making him practically useless. 1-ups aren't there very often: in most games they're everywhere, if you can figure out where and how to get them. The guide book is a joke, and it even complains Baum wrote 36 sequels to the Wizard, and that the last of his work was published in the sixties. The latter part may be true, but not what they were thinking of. I know Animal Fairy Tales was published in 1958, and Our Landlady even later. If anyone has managed to finish the game and tape the ending, I'd like to see it. Barb: Music of the Spheres is a phrase I have wondered about, though I know Josef Strauss wrote a waltz by that title, which I have on Erich Kunzel's _Ein Straussfest II_ CD. When I bought that, the cashier was a shaven headed guy with an earring, who actually chuckled when I bought it. Henri Verdoux mentions "music of the spheres in _Monsieur Verdoux_, Charlie Chaplin's black comedy masterpiece. Dave: I only found two references to Oz in _Contact_, did anyone find more. Both were to the movie. I thought I saw a Del Rey paperback on McConahey's shelf, but when I got home, I looked and saw that it wasn't. Has anyone seen _The Flight of Dragons_ (1982). In it (I've mentioned this before), The Green Wizard Carolinus (Harry Morgan) shows Peter Dickinson (the author of the actual book the film was based on, something teachers always said never to do, played here by John Ritter) his "Library of Unwritten Books," which includes Beowulf, Gulliver's Travels, The Tempest, Alice in Wonderland, The Wizard of Oz, and, of course, The Flight of Dragons. Interestingly, all four directors, Arthur Rankin, Jr.; Jules Bass, Fumihiko Takayama, and Katsuhisa Yamada, all have directed Oz-related films before or since! Dave: Unions aren't necessarily men gathering together and cooperating. The union I belonged to just pulled a lot of money out of my paycheck, sent me stupid newsletters, and told me to vote all-Democrat. It was mandatory to join to work at Kroger, so it is still forced, it's just a matter of by whom, which really does not matter much. BTW, how often has Ozma forced someone to do something unless they had warred or done something criminal? I also have yet to find Dover's _John Dough_. I was hoping to read _Sky Island_ this summer, but I still don't think I'll have time. Doug: I think Baum wanted to emphasize that Ojo's quest involved breaking the law, and perhaps the right thing to do would have been to seek the aid of someone licensed to practice magic. Thus, it was important that Ojo's efforts be for nothing. David O.: I haven't been to the one in Indiana, because it's about 99.9% MGM, but many of the surviving Munchkins go, so it would be worth it for that reason. Eric Richard (esrichar@cord.iupui.edu) has been, and he has met John Fricke, Jerry Maren, Margaret Pellegrini, and Karl Slover. Judging from John's video, Eric is right that Karl is a really funny guy. Tyler: Do you really think an IE is an IE if it has strong thematic significance (and they do not always). I always thought, in the Oz as literature sense, it was because of the real-world scenario. Remember thompson describing herself as an actual recipient of the materials. Perhaps she simply "corrected" dialogue she thought was erroneous, because R&L gave her the "corrected" compass rose on Wogglebug's map. In my Oz books, he getsblamed for everything wrong with the map, so as not to blame Baum for inconsistency. Remember, the Tiktok endpapers have a mirrored compass rose, which R&L dutifully corrected, because they didn't have a computer that could reverse the lettering for them What I don't like about communism is that it forces people to give up what they have worked for to those who have done little or nothing. There has to be a happy medium, not an either-or... Eric: I'm a bit surprised, with its Oz references, "Project Ozma" was never mentioned in _Contact_. Has anyone heard any more about the rap-musical of Wizard, directed by Paul Hunter, yet? Ruth: I believe Shaggy's last name is Wiggins. I know in Jesus's time, it was legal to walk into somebody's field and take of the goods, so long as you took what you could eat, not pocketing reserves, which, of course, Shaggy was trying to do. Jane: I'd like to contribute something to the gazette, if you have any ideas. BTW, I have more pictures of you than I remembered taking... Ted: Money was used during the Wizard's time (and before): Children bought lemonade with pennies in _WWoO_, and Piozters were made with Ozma's face before she devalued them. Steve T.: My union was UFCW Local 700. It sucks. Glad I'm no longer a member. (Actually, I think you have to actively withdraw or something, which it's too late for me to do, unfortunately. At least I'm off the mailing list, finally. David: The Indianapolis-Marion County Public Library System doesn't restrict anything from children unless paents get a "jv" punch on their kid's card. But that only works for videos. And that's so excessive that there are G movies that aren't considered j that they can't check out, ang PG and PG-13 films that are, that they can. It's a bit absurd. At least the library doesn't have Madonna's _Sex_ for kids to check out. What makes you think Thompson's Oz is in a Ptolomeic universe. I don't think there is anything conclusive (save Farmer or the Gazette ball) to suggest that Oz is not hidden somewhere on earth... Barb: Love the castle! The questionnaire looks good. I never answered one. Dave: I didn't know there was a band called Ozma! I wonder if they're Oz fans. None of us said there was anyhting wrong with wanting to marry Ozma. It's just that you decided to marry her off... Bill: I have the CD. It's in the soundtracks section. I never saw the show, however, and it has yet to be released to video, or if it has, it's not in Videolog. Dave: I have serious doubts about the big bang theory. It doesn't make any sense to me. The theories I understand, but they don't seem, grounded in the real world. Someone tried to explain expansion and contraction of the universe to me using a phone cord, but could not explain evidence to suggest this was meant anything. Ted: There have been at least two television serials based on the Oz books, and that is not counting _Ozu no Uchu Daiboken_ (Space Adventure of Oz) _Tales of the Wizard of Oz_, or _The Wizard of Oz_ (1990, based on MGM movie). these are _Volshebnik Izumrudnogo Goroda_ (1973, V. Popov, L. Smironov) and _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_ (1987, Gerald Potterton, Tim Redi). The former was a ten-part adaptation of the first three Alesandir Melyentovich Volkov Magic Land books: the first five episodes are based on his version of _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz_, though the ending is truncated similarly to the MGM film. The next three are of _Urfin Dzhus and his Wooden Soldiers_ and the last two are of _Seven Underground Kings_, both original tales by Volkov. The first story also has an incident with Ludoyed (man-eater), an Ogre who wants to put Elli through his meat grinder. The more recent one has been issued as four films, running 93, 91, 95, and 94 minutes each, based on Wizard, Land Ozma, and EC. The art is ugly, but the first book is adapted faithfully, and the others far less so. Sony released four episodes to tape last year, but they are already unavailable. Dave: I can snail-mail you the complete credits for the first five Oz Kids videos (which are astoundingly different), though I haven't found the other four. The plate story ought to be mentioned in the FAQ. Also, I have a bigger credits list for the 1960 Land than The World of Oz, which I culled from TV guide. Actually, except fro Who Stole Santa? and Christmas in Oz, which I haven't entered yet, most of this information can be culled from the Internet Movie Database, by looking at the titles. The address is us.imdb.com. Herm: Did you see this? http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?Bieber,+Herman You might want to have your birthday listed wiyth the stars, or a mini-bio or something. I'm too young for a bio to be of any interest for mine, but I've got others. You're in the credits for _Oz: The American Fairyland_ but I don't think it has your Santore credit yet. Bear: I think Stephen was referring to how Hitler led his everyday life, as opposed to political operations... The Land of Oz was not directed by Victor Fleming, that was the MGM film. This was directed by William Corrigan, who never made it out of TV. William Asher, producer and director of _Bewitched_, produced this telefilm, so it must have led to Agnes Moorhead's casting as Endora. Most of mberts's info on other Oz films is erroneous. Frank Oz had nothing to do with Return to Oz. The characters in RTO were designed by a vteam headed by Tim Rose, Lyle R. Conway, and Stephen Norrington (director of _Death Machine_, where characters are named after directors like Sam Raimi, Joe Dante, and John Carpenter, the first two are among my favorites, I've only seen one film by the third.) David: The Oz Kids are not airing on TV. Probably this is because just about everything Thomas L. Wilhite has touched has been an artistic success, but a financial failure. Did you know he was the Disney exec who approved of _Return to Oz_. Walter Murch went right to him, and Tom said it was a worthwhile idea. He soon left the company, since films he had worked on, like Tron, The Black Hole, and Something Wicked This Way Comes all failed. I liked Tron, and especially _Something Wicked this Way Comes_, adapted from a Ray Bradbury story. I believe, until _The Halloween Tree_, this was Ray Bradbury's favorite of his works on film. Gordon: That's odd, Mervyn LeRoy, was the producer of _The Wizard of Oz_. Usually it's directors (in this case Victor Fleming) who have trouble. Most directors, and therefore film students like me, hate producers, because they are commercial shackles to the director's art. That's probably why Walter Murch, Jr. got offended when Peter mentioned that he thought his father was the producer of _Return to Oz_. Originally the producer of _RTO_ was Gary Kurtz (of _Star Wars_ fame). Murch and Kurtz worked quite well together, but Disney was switching over to the Eisner-Katzenberg regime, andf wanted other projects swept under the rug, hence the ugly artwork and poorly handled promotion for the film. The bumped Kurtz up to executive producer (giving him less creative control) and put Paul Maslansky (_Police Academy_) in his place, because that film had been successful on a low budget, and Eisner-Katzenberg wanted to put together Touchstone and new projects they approved, and just finish up quickly the work of the previous regime. Wizard, Land, Ozma, DOTWIZ, Road, EC, Patch, Rinkitink, Tiktok, Scarecrow, Lost Princess, Tin Woodman, Magic, Glinda, Royal Book, Kabumpo, Cowardly Lion, Grampa, Lost King, Hungry Tiger, Gnome King, Giant Horse, Jack Pumpkinhead, Yellow Knight, Pirates, Purple Prince, Ojo, Speedy, Wishing Horse, Captain Salt, Handy Mandy, Silver Princess, Ozoplaning, Wonder City, Scalawagons, Lucky Bucky, Magical Mimica, Shaggy Man, Hidden Valley, Merry-Go-Round. Unfortunately, I've only read through Pirates, and I can't find Purple Prince. I wish I had a fine-mint Del Rey to complete my set, though. Anybody have one? Scott P.S.: Tip asks "Are you saying my sister is a fictional character. Are you Philip Jose Farmer writing under a pseudonym?" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 17:12:29 -0400 (EDT) From: DianaBoban@aol.com Subject: wizard of oz list Hi, I have been on the wizard of oz list for several months. Today, my computer ate everything that I own and kicked me off of the few mailing lists that I was on. Could you please please please send me information as to how to resubscribe to the Oz list? Thank you, Diane DianaBoban@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 16:37:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 07-30-97 > NAME Scott Andrew Hutchins > DATE OF BIRTH 1/2/76 > HOME Indianapolis, Indiana > PROFESSION Telephone Pollster/Student (Communications Theatre/Mass Media Major; Film Studies Minor) in two weeks: former Customer Service Clerk (bagger) > LEVEL OF EDUCATION entering fourth year of college in the fall > AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ probably around 2 > HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ Tom Sinnickson-illustrated Wonder Book (overprotective parents denied film until a first-grader) > HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_ Eric Gjovaag gave me the address > OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO IWOC, Royal Club of Oz > PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS) Books, mostly, also films, including, but definitely not limited to MGM. Looking for onscurities like Wonderful Land and Fantasia... 3 Help! > HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? 25 :BAUM BOOKS? 14 THOMPSON? 11 > NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYES? McGRAW? None yet > WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? How the Wizard came to Oz, Ozma Gets Really Pissed Off & Cusses and Totally Offends (Almost) Everyone in Oz, The Braided Man of Oz, The Reading Tree of Oz, Egor's Funhouse Goes to Oz, Ozma and the Wayward Wand, Return to Oz, probably others > HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ? American Fairy Tales, The Surprising Adventures of the Magical Monarch of Mo and His People, Queen Zixi of Ix, The Sea Fairies (also Have Sky Island and Aunt Jane's Neices in the Red Cross (1918 revision) still unread) > HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ? > none ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECT" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ >BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?)Centenniel book, two sequels, films research > MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION? character portrayals/development in books and films, authorial ideas, themes expressed, towns full of weirdos > WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ? Ozites could age and die before Ozma ascended the throne (Nick's mother died, for instance. Warren Hollister suggests a mistake. I don't think something like that could be.), but no longer. Aging is optional, death impossible except through incineration, disintegration, or dissolution Jack Snow's "A Murder in Oz" Oz as history can be interpreted along with regular history/author's knowledge (west/East thing) The continent of Oz is somewhere on earth, undectectable to normal devices, probably in the northern Pacific. The Nonestic is so named to make outsiders believe it is fictional (Latin: non (no; not), est (is)), not because it was Baum's sly way of telling adults he did not believe it. Ozma and Polychrome are still children (albeit older children: 10-12 range). Many Ozites have seen films about Oz, and find most laughable. Ozma is not as ugly as the Octopus-books edition depicts her (actually, she's not ugly at all; unfortunately, I can never remember that bad illustrator's name. Actually his Wogglebug is nice, as is his Gump,Jack, and Nick, and his Tip is okay. The Scarecrow has an ugly pillow head.) Someone, I think it was Melody, said that "Nonentic" (cf. Neill) was a real word. What does it mean? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 19:35:42 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 07-31-97 Douglas Silfen: In my "Forever in Oz," the Nimmee that married Chopfyte is the real one all right--her statement that she had forgotten the Tin Woodman and Soldier was, according to Chopfyte, "the biggest whopper she ever told." :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 20:11:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 (fwd) I don't think this made it into the DIGEST. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:55:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-01-97 OOPS!: Do NOT mail your responses to the questionnaire to me. I'm adding them as you post them. Yes, y'all, I still have the original poll and its responses. Those who've been posting them on the DIGEST are doing the right and logical thing. Good way to introduce yourselves to us! Robert: Glad to have another Texan on the DIGEST. Atty is at UT. I'm in Houston. So is Jim VanderNoot. Gordon's in Dallas. So is Mike Denio. Bob: Gee, I wish I could be in New Hampshire during the fall. We have no real fall colors down here. (Actually, I'd like to be in NH during the summer to take one of the writing institutes offered up there...) Saroz: A fine first of TIN WOODMAN in a fine dj could easily sell for well over $1000. It's one of the toughest 1sts. to find, other than a first of WIZARD. Most places would price any fine first in fine dj at somewhere around $1000, if it had color illos. Amazing, isn't it. Anything less than truly fine really should run hundreds less.Hard to say. My shop would sell at less than most. Herm would sell at less than I (he has no rent or salaries to pay). However, I've seen lots of Oz priced right up around the $1000 mark. Ruth: I can't recognize any of the music in question as belonging to either WOGGLEBUG or TIK-TOK, but I only know the songs Marc tracked down. Ted: Post-Baum Oz books are available through a number of sources. The Del Rey paperbacks are available through the Int'l. Wizard of Oz Club (IWOC). Hardcover reprints are available through IWOC and Books of Wonder. The older copies are available at some rare book dealers. Herm Bieber is your very best source. He's on the DIGEST, when he's home. The shop where I work is also pretty good, but my prices can't be as good as Herm's. Check the Amazon Books website for good prices on Oz reprints. As for RINKINTINK, you're quite right. Baum wrote it originally as a non-Oz book, then tacked on the Oz kind of at the last minute! Welcome to the DIGEST. Any intelligent posters are welcome...Oz is a great leveller. I'm glad you're not shy. Dave: I can't find the part of the DIGEST that AOL says I've downloaded. Not sure if this is due to my ignorance or if it's an AOL problem. Still have my Tenet account at the moment, so I'm not desperate yet. OZ KIDS: Last I heard, we'd be getting the series in '98. I'll check with Willard when he gets back from England, if no one else here knows for sure. It's doing pretty well, I hear. Too bad it's almost impossible to get the videos in Texas without special ordering. I got my five OZ KIDS videos from my daughter, who was stationed in Italy at the time! David: Public THANK YOU! for having done the Index to OZIANA. All: Please sign your posts. Just a first name is fine. Please. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 20:15:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 mbert: Your description of Elmo may be confusing to some. Elmo is a relatively new muppet creation. His claim to fame, so to speak, is that this past Christmas, "Tickle Me,Elmo" was the *hot* toy that every doting parent was frantically trying to obtain for demanding offspring. Kind of like the Cabbage Patch doll phenomenon, but probably shorter-lived in popularity and, IMHO, much cuter. Sweetfaced, fuzzy, cuddly, and the silly thing did laugh when tickled. You wrote:>.... Disney. Ok, the film was not a great success, but >perhaps that is because it stayed close to the plot of the book. What book? One of the problems with RTO was that it combined elements from several of the books. Its biggest problem, and yes, it had some, probably was Disney's almost total lack of enthusiasm in promoting it in the U.S, Some Golden Books, and a few premiums from people like C&H Sugar (Great puppets), but the stuff that was put out in Japan never made it here. The "Jitterbug" sequence survives, sorta, in Arlen's home films, which have been aired a number of times on T.V. Questionnaire Responses: PLEASE don't double space them. I have to do a cut-and-paste to get your responses into another file, and double-spacing is a pain in the neck to delete. Sprry is I sound grouchy about it. Book Prices: Herm, what price would you feel appropriate for a fine 1st in fine dj of TIN WOODMAN? BTW, the prices you quoted are just what I'd've expected from you. (That's a compliment, Herm.) AOL: Ozzy Log in names do NOT mean Ozzy people. I discovered this when I checkecked member profiles on a bunch of them. Some belonged to Australians. Others belonged to braggarts. Dave: I'm resending my last post, since it didn't make it into the last DIGEST. (Maybe I just sent it too late Friday night?) --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 23:29:45 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Two days of the digest. I'm back after a trek through a 60-mile dust storm :-( David: According to some sources, Baum originally intended only the green area to be called "Oz", and the other four quadrants were supposed to be independent. He changed his mind before the book went to print. From the tone and conversation in _Land_, it is clear that the five regions are independent, even though the area as a whole is called the Land of Oz. Even Glinda speaks of Ozma as the heir to the throne of the Emerald City. While perusing this title, I came across something interesting. According to Baum, Jack Pumpkinhead's Pumpkin Head "did not spoil as soon as he had feared", and that he "lived with Ozma until the end of his days", clearly implying that he DID spoil and die. We find out later, of course, that this is true, in a sense. David and Steve: The Powder must also have given Victor some kind of joint mechanism in his legs to enable him to walk. Jack, as we remember, was supplied those by Tip. Ozma: I don't think anybody would question Ozma's mental and emotional maturity, no matter what her physical age, so there should be no marriage problems from that department. Ruth: It is possible, of course, that the no-aging spell has spread out all over fairyland, although there is nothing to support it. However, if anybody ever writes a story about Bud, Fluff, Evardo, etc., they are extremely likely to make them children, even if the story takes place in the present, so we may as well run with it. Of course, there's the statement in _Zixi_ that David brought up... Harry Mongold's two stories are "Button Bright" and "The Sawhorse", unless he has a third story out. Ozma and Dan: This is starting to sound like that episode of ST "Voyager" where Harry Kim fell in love with a holodeck image. In this case, Marena was real, though. She had hacked into the system and was using the image as a mask. Wherefore Art Thou, Oz? David'a arguement is one of my two main reasons for believeing that Oz cannot be physically here on Earth in the same dimension. The other is sheer quantity. In _Tok-Tok_, we learn that there is another fairyland on the opposite side of the world from Oz. Also, in _Captain Salt_, we learn of the sizeable continent of Ozamaland. We now have three large land masses that are widely separated. If one is here, then so are the others, and that's just not likely. APB on Aaron: I haven't heard anything from Aaron in while either. I'm curious to know how his book-writing is going. Ted: The IWOOC and Books of Wonder are the best places to buy the post-Baum FF. Someone can give you contact info, since I can never seem to hang on to BOW's phone number. The ending and title of _Rinkitink in Oz_ are absolutely latched on. Originally, the book was written as _King Rinkitink_ and had a different ending. Due to many factors back then, the book could only be published if it was a genuine Oz book. Baum changed the ending and the title, and we have the modern version. Your children-aging MOPPeT is similar to a theory put forth by John R. Neill, which had it that children in each family have a "stop growing" age, which seems to be between 10 and 12. The late Rob Roy McVeigh was working on making a cartoon series of the FF before his tragic death. According to such experts as Chris Dulabone, it would be extrememly expensive and time consuming. For the record, though, I must voice grave doubts on Chris's actual estimate, about a million dollars per book. Dave: I believe he was mentioning Elmo as in "Tickle me Elmo". Bar: Actually, it's been a rough week on me, too, but I'll see if I can whip up something :-) Doug: _The WOozy in Oz_ is not available in any form, since it has not been written yet. The reason I know so much about it is that in the early days of the Digest, Aaron gave away quite a lot of hints about the series (The overall name is the "Lurline's Machine" series), until he finally realized that if he gave away too much, there would be no reason to write or read them! It seems to me that death was very real prior to Ozma ascending the throne, despite objections from Chris. Of course, Baum made passing references to death even after this event. The best compromise explanation I can think of is that deathlessness began to pervade Oz slowly and really gathered steam after Ozma's ascension. Even so, there were isolated exception until several years later, when only powerful magic could destroy somebody. While nobody actually comes out and says that Oz is not on Earth (except in the non-Historically Accurate _Dinamonster_), evidence such as David has cited along with the three-continent problem that I mentioned plus the differences in the atmosphere and outer space is, I believe, sufficient to state with a fair degree of certainty that Oz is not physically on our globe, in our dimension. The parallel-dimension theory does a satisfactory job of explaining all this and also makes it easy for characters to get from here to there so often. It seems a little odd that so many Ozzy names should appear as screen names. Have you tried some of these? I'm trying to think of some minor characters. Glegg, Fumbo, Corum, Stampedro, Philador, Ervic, Isomere, Re Alla Bad, Abrog, Allibabble, Bangladore, Boq, Chopfyt, Ejabo, Faleero, Garee, Gwig, Hoochafoo, Kettywigh, Nimmie Amee, Pajonia, Palumbo, Quiberon, Umtillio, Konk, Quink, Nandywog, Opodock, Loxo, Gloma, Tazander Tazah, Gludwig, Shampoozle, Howzatagin, just to name a few. And for the really esoteric, you could try some non-FF characters. I guarantee that none of the ones in the next paragraph will be taken: Oooliphlop, Llewop, Fwiirp, Baumelaumerivik, Baumizygrynivik, Levimeyerabloch, Gwomokolottokint, Izarnhanduz. The spelling may be off on some of these. Gordon: I can recite the entire FF by author, illustrator and year of publication, but I don't care to do so now. Perhaps we can have a contest at a convention :-) David L (just how many Davids are out there, anyway?) :-) I believe that Del Rey still publishes the entire Baum 14 in paperback, but they do not have the original cover art. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 21:06:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Nesi Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 X-Originating-IP: [207.180.8.180] >According to this book, [the Shirley Temple special] >really was bad...except for Agnes Moorehead's performance as Mombi and >apparently, this role helped her to land the role of Endora in >'Bewitched.' Really?? With a cast like that it sounds great! -- I can name all the FFs! 1 - THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ 2 - THE MARVELOUS LAND OF OZ 3 - OZMA OF OZ 4 - DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ 5 - THE ROAD TO OZ 6 - THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ 7 - THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ 8 - TIK-TOK OF OZ 9 - THE SCARECROW OF OZ 10 - THE LOST PRINCESS OF OZ 11 - RINKITINK IN OZ 12 - THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ 13 - THE MAGIC OF OZ 14 - GLINDA OF OZ ...I think this is the publication order. --- BTW, does Jim Henson Productions (Muppets, etc.) own the rights to Oz? I'm a big Muppet fan and didn't know this! Ted *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** * TED'S LUCILLE BALL PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/LUCINDEX.HTM * * * * TED'S MUPPET PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/mupindex.html * * * * CLASSIC TELEVISION * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/TVINDEX.HTM * * * * THE UNOFFICIAL "WIZARD OF OZ" HOME PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9151/ * * * * "Do you pop out at parties? Are you unpoopular? Well are * * you??" - Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball, "I Love Lucy," 1952) * *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 06:59:38 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digests 8/1 & 8/2/97 Welcome to Suzanne, Ted, Rev. Bob, David L., and Bob Schroeder. Sarah: Regarding the hardest to find FF 1st edition, I'm sure the Digest experts will have the answer. However, at the Munchkin Convention this past weekend, a first, w/dust jacket, of Merry-Go-Round in Oz was described as being quite rare. It sold at the auction on Saturday for just under $300. which was considered by some to be a bargain. And speaking of the Munchkin Convention, a few personal observations. I have attended for the past four years, and this was less well attended than the previous three. It also had fewer auction items, but probably better quality items. The silent auction was only one table, where, in the past three years it was three, IIRC. The food is still very good and the people are great. Digest members Earl Abbe, Elinor & John Kennedy, Sharon & Chris Warkala, and Nathan DeHoff were there. Program highlights on Friday evening included a slide presentation "The Wonderful Women of Oz" by Barbara Kolle, and a slide & audio show by David Maxine "Victor Columbia Edison - The Early Oz Recordings". Saturday evening had a CD presentation by Christine Baum on the progress of the theme park to be built in Kansas, and a wonderful Oz 40th Birthday Party, with a beautiful cake and games galore! As always, I enjoyed! Doug: Many Digest discussions in the past couple of years have centered on inconsistancies in Baum's books. You have to realize that they were written for children, and that he didn't intend them to be a series. Dick Randolph ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 04:40:44 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Ozzy Digest Stuff Hi all, I don't know if this will interest any of you, but here are my ratings of the first 12 Oz books. I might tell you that I am 33 and never read any Oz books before some months ago. So...this might be interesting as data to plug in from an older newbie!! :-) 10 is the best. 1. THE WIZARD OF OZ................9 2. THE LAND OF OZ..................7 3. OZMA OF OZ.......................10 4. DOROTHY AND THE WIZARD IN OZ.....6 5. THE ROAD TO OZ...................3 (mostly because of the scoodlers) 6. THE EMERALD CITY OF OZ...........6 7. THE PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ.........8 8. TIK TOK OF OZ....................4 9. THE SCARECROW OF OZ..............8 10.RINKITINK IN OZ..................5 11.THE LOST PRINCESS OF OZ..........9 12.THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ............8 Anybody read The Sea Fairies and Sky Island? How are they? Are they fantasy as well? Take care! Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 07:55:55 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Grim Stuff Steve Teller says in the 8/1 Digest that I think that Steve is mistaken. Hitler liked domesticity at times, but that did not make him moral in matters relating to his person (while he was being immoral or amoral in things on a larger scale.) The immoral-on-a-personal-scale example that comes immediately to mind is the fate of the conspirators who tried to assassinate him. They were executed in a slow, excruciating manner, with the whole affair carefully filmed for Hitler's later and frequent enjoyment. A little on this subject goes a long, long ways! :-( Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 09:59:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-02-97 To straighten part of the Bear/Berman quarrel. I believe it was I (not Bear) who asked the original question: "What sort of person would steal a little child's dog?" Ruth: Harry Mongold did try to resurrect some of the neglected characters in his books, but he wrote: BUTTON BRIGHT IN OZ and THE SAWHORSE OF OZ (I'm never sure about the prepositions), but not THE WOOZY IN OZ. Scott O. asked about the Aberdeen Festival and the contraversy about Baum's editorials. There was a petition on the web demanding that the Aberdeen Festival not ignore the fact that Baum, in THE ABERDEEN SATURDAY PIONEER wrote two editorials seemingly recommending the extermination of the Indians. The Aberdeen Festival *has* risen to the challenge and there will be presentations concerning these editorials and one of the speakers is a native American. Bear asked if I meant that "personal morality should not be a consideration in the selection of leaders?" I would reply that it can be a consideration, but I would not wantit to be a deciding factor. David Hulan's quote from the Cleveland/Blaine election seems appropos. When I suggested that Adolf Hitler was personally a moral person, I meant that he was, as far as we know, not quilty of sexual misconduct, sexual harrassment, and personal theft. He was a cleanness freak. He was also the cause of more misery than anyone else in the twentieth century (and maybe any other century) with the possible exception of Joseph Stalin. Oz as a TV series: There was a 54(?) part television series from CINAR based (rather loosely) on WIZARD, LAND, OZMA, and EMERALD CITY. It was shown on HBO a feqw years ago. Four feature length video-tapes were released based on this series. They ran about 90 minutes each. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:45:19 -0700 From: Roberta Ling Subject: Digest Member Survey Cc: aglib@pacbell.com I'm a long-time Oz fan returning to the fold after many years absence. Name: Roberta Ling DOB: 9/13/40 Residence: Palo Alto, CA Profession: medical librarian Level of ed.: MA, MLS Age of discovery: 8 How discovered: read my uncle's copy of Ozoplaning with the Wizard of OZ How discovered Digest: Dave's home page Primary Oz interests: IWOC, Royal Club of OZ How many FF books read: all Non-FF books: none Non-Baum books: 3 or 4 Non-Thompson books: none Current Oz projects: Re-reading all FF books; making costume for next Winkie convention Main Ozzy area of concentration: World of Baum-Neill only. MOPPETS: none at this time This is a great discussion group! ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 5, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 17:05:42 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Sender: BARLOW NATE Dick: > However, at the Munchkin Convention this past weekend, a first, w/dust jacket, of > Merry-Go-Round in Oz was described as being quite rare. It sold at the auction on Saturday > for just under $300. which was considered by some to be a bargain. ... > As always, I enjoyed! As purchaser of that Merry-Go-Round, I must mention that it did not have the dust jacket. It was, however, signed by both Eloise Jarvis and Lauren Lynn McGraw. And as chairperson of the convention, I am very glad that you enjoyed the weekend. I am indebted to countless people for all their time and help, both during the weekend and throughout the past year. I cannot thank them enough. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 16:38:20 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 David: It seems to me normal physical principals work in Oz unless there is some sort of magic in effect, but you've read more of the books than I have. Tyler: My book Nikidik in Oz has Fluff in her early twenties and married to the prince of a country where no aging occurs. It is set in the present day, and Bud is an old man, and goes by Timothy, while his older sister is much younger (physically) than he is. Ted: Nice try, the FF is "Famous Forty", not "Famous Fourteen" :-) The Land of Oz also starred Charles Boaz as The Colonel, Mari Lynn as Jellia Jamb, Norman Leavitt as The Repairman (?!), William Keene as the Royal Army, and Lou Merrill as the Court Doctor. Nikidik became Lord Nikidik, a replacement for Jinjur. Unfortunately, I've never seen this. This is probably the fourth or fifth time I have asked, but what does the Repairman have to do with iut? I know some of you have seen this at the convention! Henson Productions, which is now a division of Disney (and has been since just before Jim died), does not own the rights to the Oz books. They are public domain through book fifteen, as well as Jack Snow's books. Thompson's books are owned by her estate except for her last four and two that were copyrighted to the publisher (a loophole making club publication of Purple Prince difficult). Neill's books are copyrighted; I'm not sure to whom, and Mcraw and Cosgrove's books are copyrighted to their authors. Jane: I found "Billy Bumble in Oz" last night. I couldn't remember if I had read this until I started to re-read it. Although I only knew Bill Eubank from his art, I loved this story as much the second time as I did the first. It seemed worthy of publication in any anthology. That was an especially good year for _Oziana_ all in all. I also read "The Merchant of Oz" last night. Perfect timing, since I haven't re-read Road yet. I finally got through Genesis last night, too, and read the first four chapters of Exodus. (Someone at church heard that I didn't have a Bible, when in fact I just didn't have my own personal Bible, but now that I have one, I started to read it from the beginning.) Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 16:42:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Dave: "Dan shall be a snake by the roadside, a viper along the path, that bites the horse's heels so that its rider falls backward." Genesis 49:17 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 18:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest If I didn't know any better, considering the fact that all lovers of things Ozzy are basically nice people who would never do such a thing, I might think that you were all insulting me. I do not have to prove that I have read all of Baum's books. I have. Everything that was ever published up to the year 1990, at which point my collection was burglarized and my family and I moved here. Yes, even stuff like The Uplift of Lucifer and Thompson's advertising pamphlets. I do admit that I read stuff like Schuyler Staunton's books from microfiche printouts, but I HAVE read all of them. But then again, I shouldn't take offense, because none of you would actually think to insult someone, being that you're all lovers of things Ozzy.... Right? ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 18:58:28 -0400 From: "Gessel, Michael" Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 FROM: Michael Gessel Regarding Richard Randolph's comments on which is the hardest books of the Oz series to find in first edition. That is a question I have sometimes wondered. I have been trying to chase down Oz books for about 30 years and I noticed that some of the books are definitely harder to find than others. For example, first editions of the Wizard, though now much pricier than my budget, turn up a lot in dealers' shows and catalogs. I see first editions of Ozma frequently. (Or at least, I used to.) Emerald City, also, I've found a lot in antique shows or bookstores. On the other hand, I usually don't see the later Baum books starting with Scarecrow. For some reason, I have found very few copies of Rinkitink, Lost Princess, or Magic in first edition. I wonder what is the experience is of other Digest readers who have been long-time searchers? > ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christine R. Gray" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 X-Authentication-warning: rac8.wam.umd.edu: china owned process doing -bs Just out of curiosity, did anyone on the list ever go to The Land of Oz amusement Park in the mountains of North Carolina? It was one of my favorite places as a child. christine gray ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:19:34, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest Thank you all for all the warm receptions and welcomes to the digest. The discussions are excellent. With all the talk of death and destruction, I wonder why the Tinman had to have new tin accessories put on. Why weren't his original limbs just re attached? Are they not attached now to Chopfyt? Does Chopfyt now have the Tinman's original heart? Just a thought...... I have played the music on the dedication page of "Road" and it sounds very familiar to me. I am looking into other piano players for more input. Has anyone discovered what it is yet? Magic (and imagination) can be used to obscure places such as Oz. Cast my vote for Oz being somewhere close to us all. Robin O.: You may come to New Hampshire at any time, after all this is God's country. If you come for a visit to this great state, please e-mail me ahead of time. There is nothing prettier than N.H. in the fall. By the way, "Oziana" is outstanding. I am recognizing a lot of names from the digest, and from the Oz clubs. I would love to attend a convention someday to meet everyone. ---Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 19:28:45 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Craig: I sympathize with your inability to get to Munchkins. I felt the same way when I had to miss Winkies last year because of our move to Chicago (though at least I was able to make Ozmopolitan). Bob S.: Bear is about 5 years older than you are, which isn't that much. And a year older than I am. Of course, I get called "liberal" all the time when I don't consider myself all that liberal by most standards; anywhere else in the developed world I'd be considered center-right. Bob C.: Glad to hear you enjoyed _Glass Cat_. It's my only published book so far, though I hope to have a couple more within the next year or two. _Ozma_, _Tik-Tok_, and _Scarecrow_ didn't have much more to do with Oz than _Rinkitink_ did; the only major difference is that the first three used characters from earlier Oz books and _Rinkitink_ didn't. Scott: I'd have to read your entry to know whether I'd like it or not. As I've said, some of my favorite non-Baum Oz books, like _Ojo_ and _Speedy_ and _Silver Princess_ (and _Disenchanted Princess_, for that matter) didn't have a serious problem set at the beginning that the protagonist succeeded in solving by the end. It's only with Baum that I find that his best books have that characteristic - and really, only his Oz books, because I regard _Sky Island_ as one of his two best books and the only quest there is for Trot, Cap'n Bill, and Button-Bright to recover the magic umbrella so they can get home. I said that the non-FF books by Baum, Thompson, Neill, et. al. (not Snow, who didn't write a non-FF Oz book) should be considered apocryphal. And I'll stretch that to say that I'm willing to consider Baum's "Little Wizard Stories" canonical, though not "Queer Visitors" and "The Woggle-bug Book" (and in fact I consider the latter two not apocryphal but heretical). I consider all of the FF canonical (although bringing Neill in presents some major problems). A lot depends on how you define the term "witch". Wiccans want to try to reserve the term for the predecessors of their own religion, which is descended (at least in their minds, though I'm not sure how good their evidence is) from paganism, not Satanism. But there _were_ Satanists - since the 19th century, at least - who also called themselves "witches". Whether there was a Satanic "witch-cult" in medieval times is something that I doubt anyone can establish conclusively today, unless somebody invents a time-viewer. There are certainly bookstores that put the Del Rey Oz books in the children's or YA sections, but most bookstores put them with the SF because Del Rey is the SF arm of Ballantine (IIRC). I usually mention this because I assume anyone who's looked for Oz books has checked the children's section of their bookstores; if they've failed, I point them to the SF section as a place where they might not have looked. As in my comment to Bear yesterday, I wonder how much your hourly wage would be decreased if there weren't a union where you work? Usually it's the case that the difference in pay between union and non-union workers is more than the dues. If an IE has strong thematic significance then it's not Irrelevant. And many times IEs are among the best parts of a book - Utensia is a classic IE (can you think of a thematic significance it has?), but it's the best thing in the whole Oz section of _Emerald City_. Still, they often just delay the action of the story to no good purpose. _Lost Princess_ is my favorite Baum Oz book, but I'd have liked it even better if he'd either left Thi out or given it some significance. (The travelers don't even get a meal out of it.) My assessment of Thompson's Oz as Ptolemaic is based on the presence of stars and planets within the atmosphere - as referred to in _Cowardly Lion_, _Hungry Tiger_, _Silver Princess_, and _Ozoplaning_ at least, possibly elsewhere. This certainly doesn't sound like our universe. Without producers to provide the money, directors wouldn't have a chance to show their artistic merits. It's sort of like publishers and authors... Robin: Chicagoland isn't New Hampshire, but the fall colors here are a definite plus for someone who's lived in Southern California the previous 30-odd (some of them _very_ odd) years. You should be able to find the part of the Digest that AOL says you've downloaded in the "Online Downloads" (or maybe just "Downloads") subfolder of the AOL folder (it's "AOL30" on my Wintel machine, but may be something else on yours), probably with the filename "ozzydige.txt" or "ozzydige.doc". This is if you just used the defaults after clicking "Download Now". Although if you don't give new filenames then each time you download you'll overwrite the previous Digest download and lose it. When you click "Download now" you should get a dialog box that gives you a choice of where you want the downloaded file stored and what you want it named; I suggest you create a folder somewhere to store downloaded Digests and name the file "ozdi0801.txt" or whatever the date is. (I put this on the Digest rather than E-mailing you privately because it may be useful to other AOL users.) You can get the "Oz Kids" videos from BoW. (At least, you can get the first five. I've ordered the rest but they're back-ordered at present.) Of course, I guess that's "special ordering". While _Return to Oz_ had its flaws, I thought it came closer to the spirit of the books than the MGM movie did. I've watched it half a dozen times on video (besides seeing it once on the big screen) and think it stands up very well. Tyler: The Powder of Life obviously affects the flexibility of the joints of those it brings to life. The Sawhorse had no more joints than Victor did, nor did Bungle. >Wherefore Art Thou, Oz? Sorry, but you pushed one of my pet buttons there. "Wherefore" means "why," not "where", and the classic quotation is "Wherefore art thou Romeo?", meaning "Why are you a stinking Montague?", not "Where are you, Romeo?" Actually, "The Woozy of Oz" has been written and was submitted to Tor a year or so ago and rejected. I don't know if it's been submitted elsewhere, revised, or anything like that. But I have a first-draft copy of it somewhere on my hard drive. (At that stage it definitely needed work, but I understand Aaron and Barry revised it extensively between that version and the one they submitted.) As we have said before, Chris D. has an encyclopedic knowledge of Oz, but his theories based on that knowledge frequently don't hold water, at least for me. >David L (just how many Davids are out there, anyway?) :-) Lots. David is one of those names that's been in the top 25-30 for popularity for generations. It's never been a vogue name (like Kevin in the early '60s, or Jason in the late '60s), but it's always had a fair level of popularity, like John and James and William and Robert. Ted: Those were the Baum Oz books. The FF include the rest of the Famous Forty, so you have another 26 to go. ;-) And _Rinkitink_ was published before _Lost Princess_. Dick: Sounds as if the Munchkin Convention was fun, even if it was smaller than usual. I really need to try to get to that con one of these years. >From the Oz-as-literature point of view you're perfectly correct - Baum didn't intend the books to be a series (at least through the first several) and didn't worry at all about consistency. Thompson and later writers knew it was a series, but still didn't worry about consistency. But that doesn't keep it from being fun to try to dream up explanations, from the Oz-as-history point of view, of why those contradictions exist. Douglas: I don't seriously disagree with your ratings of the first 12 books, though I'd rate _Rinkitink_ higher and _Dotwiz_ and _Tin Woodman_ lower than you do by a significant enough factor that I'd have to say we disagree on their merits. For the others, your ratings are close enough to mine that there's no important disagreement. _The Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_ are indeed both fantasies, featuring Trot and Cap'n Bill before they came to Oz in _Scarecrow_. _Sea Fairies_ is rather dull through its first half for an adult reader, though I liked it as a child and it's the only Oz-related book that my daughter liked at all when she was a child. The second half is excellent. _Sky Island_ is roughly tied with _Lost Princess_ as my favorite Baum book of all, and I've heard that it was Baum's own personal favorite of his books. Both books are definitely worth reading, and are available in quite nice PB versions from BoW (or more directly if you have a local Borders). (Or if you want hardcovers you can get them from BoW directly, though I don't think Borders carries those.) Steve: I'd have to add Mao as someone in the same ballpark as Hitler and Stalin for causing misery in the 20th century. He probably would take the prize for causing more misery to more people, but that's because he ruled more people in the first place; he probably wasn't quite as bad in proportion to the population he was ruling. (On the other hand, if you take it in proportion to the population ruled, Pol Pot or Idi Amin might take the prize...) Roberta: Welcome to the Digest! (And back to the fold.) I hope to meet you in person at Winkie next year. ROAD: One thing I've mildly wondered about: my atlas, at least, doesn't reveal any "Butterfield" in Kansas. On the other hand, although there's no community of "Butterfield" that it goes through today, "Butterfield Road" is one of the main east-west drags in the western suburbs of Chicago, where I believe Baum was still living at the time. (If he'd left for California, it wasn't long before. I know his introduction was from Coronado, but he vacationed there for a few years before he moved, IIRC.) I wonder if anyone knows whether (a) "the road to Butterfield" might have been based on "Butterfield Road", and (b) whether there really was a community of Butterfield that Butterfield Road went to (most named "Road"s around here do go to, or at least toward, the communities they're named for) back around 1910? This would, of course, have been Way Out In The Country in those days, 35 miles or so from the Loop. But Baum might have motored out this way on Sunday afternoon drives and picked up on the name... I've been rather prolix today, but I can't really promise to be less so tomorrow, I'm afraid. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 20:45:14 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls mbert - whoever you are, your movie insights were interesting but dubious. Would you mind signing your posts so we could appreciate you properly. Herm - I keep telling you aol sufferers to bail out and come on over to compuserve. Still $10 per month. Bob >Molly Ivins approaches sainthood in my book. I will join you in hoping she qualifies soon. :) Scott - Think so? Tell me then as an example, who was Eva Braun? Good grief Earl - I was trying for a kinder, gentler example. This is a Digest for the young and young at heart. Yuk. :( Stephen - Thanks for the clarification for Ruth. On your Hitler subject, I have never seen personal hygiene equated to morality. ??? And now, back to Oz....... Speaking of which, do I recall that Melody has a new book out? Melody, could you give us details for purchase please if this is true? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 21:50:49 -0500 From: Bea & Herschel Premack Subject: Oz in Aberdeen X-MSMail-Priority: Normal For a couple of months I have been following the Digest. My name is Bea Premack, and I have been busy working on the L. Frank Baum Oz Festival, the Dakota Heritage which will be in Aberdeen this coming weekend. It is our intention to have an annual festival, and I will share more details after this first one has been held. We do have some publications coming out this week and you might be interested in them. The first is titled "Oz in Aberdeen: A Catalogue of the L. Frank Baum Collection at the Alexander Mitchell Library". It is compiled by library director Dave Rave and edited by Nancy Tystad Koupal. Briefly, the collection includes: Works by Baum (books, short stories, sheet music, newspapers, films); family papers (correspondence, business and family records, photographs, memorabilia); Studies of Baum and Oz; Other Oz Publications. There is an article about the collection in the Spring 1990 issue of the Baum Bugle. The catalogue is for sale through the library at $8 plus handling. If anyone is interested, I will get more specific information for ordering and send it on. The Aberdeen/Brown County Landmarks Commission published a pamphlet this summer titled "A Tour of L. Frank Baum's Aberdeen" by local historian Don Artz. The first printing of the pamphlet is being distributed free of charge. (I don't know about postage). If anyone is interested, I will get more information about ordering. When specifics are available, I will also send more information about our 3rd publication Mother Goose in Prose, a selection of Storybook Land themes from Baum's 1897 book. Honoring the 100th anniversary of Mother Goose in Prose and connecting it to our children's park where 6 of the original stories have corresponding story characters, this book contains the 6 stories, an introduction by Don Artz, Baum's original introduction, selected Maxfield Parrish illustrations and 7 new illustrations by local artist Judith Westegaard. This book is not quite off the press, but the week is young. I am quite new to the computer and the magic of it all. Wouldn't L. Frank have been fascinated? I have enjoyed following the Digest, begun meeting a few regular contributors, and hope to be able to add a bit myself now and then. Bea in Aberdeen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 20:27:41 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Cc: "Melody G. Keller" Howdy y'all (and Melody individually), I have just finished Melody Grandy's thoroughly delightful _The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz_ and Melody, you have gained a fan. What an entertaining book! I vastly enjoy Zim and am looking forward to the next in the series. One question. Perhaps I missed it, or perhaps it is not significant, but I am curious about the patches on Zim's elbows in the illustrations. At any rate, Melody, Thanks. Changing subjects, in the past I stated my fondness for _The Road To Oz_ despite general opinion to the contrary. I retain that fondness, but upon sober reflection (The only kind of reflection that my doctor will let me have, dammit!) I believe that the illustrations were a big part of the original attraction that the book held for me (and still does). I have both the original edition from my childhood (well worn) and a paperback Rand McNally edition that I purchased a few years ago. The illustrations in the Rand book are not nearly as finely detailed as the original one. The reproduction process is at fault, I guess. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:01:08 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Scott Hutchins: Yes, I've seen "The Flight of Dragons." Quite a nice film. It's only partly based on Peter Dickinson's "Flight of Dragons." It takes it's ideas about how dragons get around from him. For the actual story, they went to Gordon Dickson (listed in the credits as "special material"), for "The Dragon and the George," which is also a lot of fun. (Originally, it was a story in "The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction," but he later expanded it as a novel, and in more recent years has written some additional novels as sequels to it.) Tyler Jones & Steve Teller: You're right, I was mis-remembering Harry Mongold's titles. David Hulan: Oziana index sounds like a good project. I'll plan to buy a copy when it's available, and thanks for doing it. Bob Collinge: Dear me, here's another one worried that Shaggy was dog-napping. Granted, it's a possibility -- but the probability is so low that it's close to zero. The argument that someone who'd steal an apple is just as likely to steal a dog strikes me as unlikely. The idea that he might seems to be a black-and-white, rigid notion that a thief's a thief, and someone who steals things of low value that won't be missed is just as likely to steal things of higher value that will be missed, and that Baum's idea that that the Shaggy Man can be both a basically Good Man, and yet also a liar and a petty thief, must be so much wishywashy liberal mush. But Baum's view of Shaggy as a mixed character, with small faults but larger virtues seems (however liberal) quite reasonably plausible, and the rigid thief's-a-thief view seems unbalanced, both in denying the possibility that someone like Shaggy might well have a code of ethics that would forbid dog-napping, and in forgetting the risk he would probably be running if he did steal the dog. (I'm discounting all the more melodramatic possibilities that occur to me -- holding Toto for ransom, killing him for food, killing him to make dead sure he doesn't raise a pursuit -- as wildly out of character.) Shaggy can hardly want Toto permanently as a pet or watchdog himself, as he'd have trouble getting food for him. It's true that he tells Dorothy he took Toto along as a watchdog, but this is obviously untrue -- he pocketed Toto because the dog was getting in the way of his theft of the apples. He has no possible reason to want Toto permanently. Conceivably (and ignoring his overall Nice Guy character later in the story), he might want to steal Toto to sell for a little money in a nearby town. But if he did that, there'd be a good chance that the dog would be recognized, and he'd get himself into fairly serious trouble. If he'd been caught with Bear's department-store- diamond in his pocket, I might well think that "character" is outweighed by that kind of evidence. But it was a dog, not an umpteen-caret diamond, and, as I said before, it seems obvious that the only really likely outcome (if magic hadn't got in the way before Shaggy got to the crossroads) is that Shaggy intended to free the dog and let him run home. Seems to me the only reasonable question here is not "Who would steal a kid's dog?" but "Why didn't Dorothy challenge Shaggy's obvious lie when she found Toto was along with them?" And I think the narrative context answers that one: she was distracted by the sudden and confusing unfamiliarity of the landscape. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 09:37:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 It has been suggested that I may have read *all* of Baum's non-Oz books. This is not the case. Ihave not readTHE BOOK OF THE HAMBURGS or THE ART OF DECORATING SHOP WINDOWS. Among the pseudonymous works I have not read four and the BOY FORTUNE HUNTER books or four of the MARY LOUISE books (the latter I have but have not gotten around to reading them. I just read THE FLYING GIRL AND HER CHUM for the first time thanks to the Hungry Tiger Press edition. There have been nine OZ-KIDS videos released. The original five were released last fall and four more this spring. All of them are composed of three half-hour episodes except WHO STOLE SANTA CLAUS (which is a two-parter) and CHRISTMAS IN OZingle episode) these two are packaged with athe same piece on the making of the OZKIDS. It might be mentioned that HBO is currently airing a Children's series HAPPILY EVER AFTER which retells famous fairy stories in unusual ethnic variants (I just saw "Little Red Riding Hood" in a Chinese setting) which were made by Hyperion, the makers of the OZ-KIDS and THE BRAVE LITTLE TOASTER. As a further footnote, the characters from "The Brave Little Toaster" make an appearance in CHRISTMAS IN OZ. The PSU library is staying open during the interim, so I am able to read and reply to e-mail, although in the blasted "Elm" format. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:11:06 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Ozzy Digest Could someone who attended the Munchkin Con give a summary of the progress report on the Oz theme park in KC? Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 07:36:03 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Cosmologically Speaking In the 8/3-4 Digest, sahutchi expresses Obviously, the cosmologists do not know everything, but universal expansion does explain the red shift. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:04:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 Roberta: Super to see you're on the DIGEST! This is a great group of people. Please don't just lurk. I happen to know that you're a very bright lady. Please don't hesitate to post your comments. Cost of Oz Series: Dunno, but Rob-Roy needed multi-millions for WIZARD. One million wouldn't have come close, but he wanted to do a really thorough job with full animation. I wish he'd been able to. The bits andpieces he did finish were quite wonderful. FWIW: While I could certainly name all 40 FF, I don't think I could do so in exact order. I never tried to memorize them...just wanted to enjoy 'em. Also, FWIW, I think I've read every book Baum wrote except for THE BOOK OF THE HAMBURGS. This does not mean that I remember them all! --Robin O. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 12:48:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 sahutchi Scott: Hallowe'en is still the correct spelling of the word, thus I use it. The apostrophe replaces a "v." Karl Slover is, indeed, funny. He cracks up and giggles easily, and his mirth is contagious. A local Houston interviewer put him on mike this last June and couldn't get him off. It was a riot. You wrote:>> The Oz Kids are not airing on TV. Probably this is because just about everything Thomas L. Wilhite has touched has been an artistic success, but a financial failure. No. Tom's (and Willard's) Oz Kids are not being shown because of a deal with Paramount...a financially successful deal. Hyperion (their company) has agreed to delay the beginning of the series on American T.V. until Paramount had had time to release all the videos. The Oz Kids venture has been anything but a financial failure. I suppose the fact that Tom was Groucho Marx's producer makes you conclude that he failed there, too? My hat's off to Tom, who had the guts to approve the projects you list. How can you blame him for their failure? What am I missing here? Will you PLEASE stop saying snide things? --Robin-"taking lessons from her mentor, Bear"-Olderman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:00 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Bob: I first heard that saying this way: A man was questioned about why his son was a communist. He said "My son is 20 years old. If he was not a communist, I would disown him. If he is still a communist at 30, I will disown him then." Scott: Actually, David was refering to Chris Dulabone, head of Buckethead Enterprises, publisher of many fine Oz books. Chris feels that some of the FF should not be counted as part of the canon, since they depart in many ways from the original atmosphere of L. Frank Baum. He even feels that this applies to some of Baum's later books. I can't tell you why, since I have yet to get a coherent reply from him. Nevertheless, I have the highest respect for Chris Dulabone. His knowledge of Oz, IMHO, transcends all other mere mortals. We are lucky to have him. Scott: No. If an encounter has some significance, it is not an IE. It also is not if there is more to the encounter than just a quick escape from slavery or if they just blow in and blow out. Ptolomey: There is no direct proof that the Ozzy Universe is geocentric. However, the composition of the atmosphere seems different. That is, there are many more things in it than in our own. Also, different planets and such seem much closer in their Universe. I have no opinion as to whether the planet or the sun is at the center, but I do believe that the Ozzy Universe is much smaller than our own. Diana: This problem has happened more than once to some people on the digest. Luckily for you, there is no procedure for subscribing beyond simply asking Dave to put you on the list and sending messages to him with "OZ" in the subject line. Ted: You got the Baum 14 pretty close, except that _Rinkitink_ is 10 and _Lost Princess_ is 11. Doug: I'll give you my quick thoughts on _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_. I read _Sky Island_ for the first time around age 6 (1975). It remains one of my favorite all time Oz or Oz-related books. It is excellent. I knew about _The Sea Fairies_, but I did not get a chance to read it until BOW published it a few years ago. I was eager to read the first "Trot book", but I must admit I was a little disappointed. It just did not read as well as "Sky Island". Aaron: The mystery continues. He has not been heard from in a long time. His last posting was on July 1. Dave: Is Aaron still officially subscribed? That is, do you still send him a Digest? --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 00:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: I am still interested in Oz avid et al., I am still alive and well, but this summer I have so many things that I need to do (like earn money ): ) that I have little energy available to put into commenting on the Digest. Sadly, I also have little energy to put into writing at the moment, so _Woozy_ and my non-Ozzy projects are for the moment. Aaron Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:47:31 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Oz Web Ring Hi, As many of you probably know, I manage the Oz Web Ring. I would like to invite everybody in this digest who has and Ozzy web page to join the Oz Web Ring. I guarantee you that you will get at least a few extra hits. You can check the statistics of the past two weeks (that's how long th Oz Web Ring has existed) at http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/wrstats?ring=ozsites. You will also help people who view your sitefind their way to other ozzy sites. Please sign your site up at http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites&addform Thanks you -- David Levitan wizardofoz@iname.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:55:17 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 To: DaveH47@delphi.com I just received my hardcover copy of _The Flying Girl and Her Chum_ in the mail today from Hungry Tiger Press. My copy does *not* have a dust jacket. Is it supposed to? This is the mid-priced edition, not the expensive one that's supposed to come with a slipcase. Has anyone read it? What do you think? It will be a while before I read it though because I haven't yet read _The Flying Girl_ in _Oz Story #3_. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 97 15:48:14 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA ROCKS??? Scott wrote: >Dave: I didn't know there was a band called Ozma! I wonder if they're Oz >fans. Dunno. The official web page is: http://members.aol.com/ozmamail/ozmasite.htm I'll pop over this evening and take a look... LIFE, THE OZZY UNIVERSE, AND EVERYTHING: Earl wrote: >Obviously, the cosmologists do not know everything, but universal >expansion does explain the red shift. FWIW, Plasma Cosmology, the cosmology I lean towards, believes in expansion too, and even a "big bang" -- It just wasn't and isn't the creation and expansion of the whole universe but a "local" (circa 50 billion light-year radius) cataclysm. Scott wrote: >Dave: I have serious doubts about the big bang theory. It doesn't make >any sense to me. The theories I understand, but they don't seem, grounded >in the real world. Someone tried to explain expansion and contraction of >the universe to me using a phone cord, but could not explain evidence to >suggest this was meant anything. Those cosmological analogies IMHO confuse more than they enlighten...They keep talking about, for example, the expanding universe as an inflating balloon, which immediately gives people the impression that the entire universe resides inside a "balloon" (a 3-dimensional sphere), which couldn't be further from the truth, whichever theory is correct. My big problem with the Big Bang is that it still can't explain (a) How the galaxies and string-like galactic superclusters overcame the explosion and clumped together, and (b) How there can be stars older than the upper limit on how long a ago the Big Bang could have occurred. But I'll go deep into this only for anyone who wants to E-mail me privately about it. As far as "Ptolomaic Universes", my MOPPET is that Nerrum (the planet that Oz and other worlds of the Nonestic are on, along with Wonderland, the Kingdom of Wisdom, etc.) is a parallel Earth in an infinite, galaxy-filled universe like ours; in fact, in my (unpublished) sci-fi novel, Oz is visted by my heroine. Nerrum resembles Earth except of course for the Nonestic continents, and even on the "real world" continents there's no pollution, war, famine, etc. Also, Nerrum resides in the Large Magellanic Cloud (At night, Ozites can read by the light of the Tarantula Nebula) & has three moons (one of which is where Planetty hearlds from), and a ring system (the "rainbow" where Polychrome lives). I also speculate that Nerrum (Oz in particular) lies in a special multi-dimensional "gravity well" so that it is closer to the 11-dimensional "quantum foam", the manipulation of which creates what is called "magic". All this takes place in a Plasma Cosmology universe, BTW, so that Oz truly can go on *forever*! OZMA, AND DAN: Tyler wrote: >I don't think anybody would question Ozma's mental and emotional maturity, >no matter what her physical age, so there should be no marriage problems >from that department. No, the question has always come down to, can Ozma "have it all", or must she remain "pure"? This is the fundamental question that is addressed in _That Ozzy Feeling_...Ozma thinks she can, as does her two suitors, Dan and Tip (Melody's Tip, not Jack Snow's)...Zurline thinks otherwise. Well, I guess it's *that* question, plus the question of whether there can be any major changes in the Ozian status quo without shackling future authors...I think there can be, since I assume any such stories either happened before Ozma's marriage or in a parallel universe...But others disagree. Perhaps in the context of my sci-fi universe is the *only* place where Ozma and Dan's union will ever be accepted...Only time will tell. Scott wrote: >None of us said there was anyhting wrong with wanting to marry >Ozma. It's just that you decided to marry her off... How is marrying her off more "evil" than *wanting* to marry her? >Dave: "Dan shall be a snake by the roadside, a viper along the path, that >bites the horse's heels so that its rider falls backward." Genesis 49:17 Er--um--Did I accidentally turn over two pages at once?? :) OZZY MOVIES: Scott wrote: >Actually, except fro Who Stole Santa? and Christmas >in Oz, which I haven't entered yet, most of this information can be culled >from the Internet Movie Database, by looking at the titles. The address >is us.imdb.com. Thanks...I'll try this... Robin wrote: >One of the problems with RTO was that it combined elements >from several of the books. Its biggest problem, and yes, it had some, >probably was Disney's almost total lack of enthusiasm in promoting it in >the U.S... Disney was afraid to promote an Oz movie in the USA??? That's like saying someone was afraid to promote Kabuki in Japan! :) THE FF BY HEART: I'm sure I will eventually, since I managed in elementary school to memorize the presidents ( and there were 40 then! :) ), but I'm still working on it... Let's see: Wizard, Land, Ozma, Dorothy, Road, Emerald, Patchwork, Tik-Tok, Scarecrow, Rinkitink, Lost Princess, Tin, Magic, Glinda, Royal, Kabumpo, Cowardly Lion, Grandpa, Lost King, something, something, Giant Horse, something, something, something, something, something, Speedy, Wishing Horse, Captain Salt, Mandy, Silver Princess, Ozoplaning, Wonder, Scalawagons, Lucky, Mimics, Shaggy, Hidden Valley, Merry-Go-Round. Well, I'll get it... :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 6, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 22:00:35 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 dave, the email i sent earlier today should have gone in the digest. i send it again: today i had the inestimable privilege of examining l. frank baum's original, handwritten manuscripts for _the tin woodman of oz_ and _the magic of oz_, which are in a library right here at the university of texas. if anyone's interested, i'll look at my notes and write a bit about the interesting aspects of these documents. incidentally, as far as i know these are the only baum oz manuscripts extant. maud burned the others in the backyard. still in awe, atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:12:07 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Just me again, > While _Return to Oz_ had its flaws, I thought it came closer to the > spirit of the books than the MGM movie did. I've watched it half a dozen > times on video (besides seeing it once on the big screen) and think it > stands up very well. Hear, hear! I am in total agreement. > he pocketed Toto because the > dog was getting in the way of his theft of the apples. That's exactly right. Shaggy is not at heart a dognapper, but neither is he a mental giant. I like him, though. In ways he rather reminds me of Steinbeck's crew of ne'er-do-wells in _Cannery Row_. > "My son is 20 years old. If he was not a > communist, I would disown him. If he is still a communist at 30, I will > disown him then." liberalism equals communism ??? > I just received my hardcover copy of _The Flying Girl and Her Chum_ in the > mail today from Hungry Tiger Press. My copy does *not* have a dust jacket. > Is it supposed to? This is the mid-priced edition, not the expensive one > that's supposed to come with a slipcase. > > Has anyone read it? What do you think? It will be a while before I read it > though because I haven't yet read _The Flying Girl_ in _Oz Story #3_. > I stated my views on both _Flying Girl_ stories earlier, so won't repeat them. Suffice it to say that I didn't like either of them very much and probably won't reread them. Don't let my dislike of them prevent you from making your own judgement, however. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 23:20:19 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Baringer (I'm sorry -- I don't remember your first name): You wrote, "If I didn't know any better, considering the fact that all lovers of things Ozzy are basically nice people who would never do such a thing, I might think that you were all insulting me. I do not have to prove that I have read all of Baum's books. I have. Everything that was ever published up to the year 1990, at which point my collection was burglarized and my family and I moved here. Yes, even stuff like The Uplift of Lucifer and Thompson's advertising pamphlets. I do admit that I read stuff like Schuyler Staunton's books from microfiche printouts, but I HAVE read all of them." I don't think it was anyone's intention to insult you. I think some of us were simply incredulous because of the sheer difficulty of getting one's hands on many of Baum's books. Many of us who have been at this for quite a while haven't even *seen* most of them, much less read them. You raise an interesting point about reading the books on microfiche. I recently moved back to the Washington, DC area after a 14-year absence, and it has occurred to me that I really should visit the Library of Congress. I believe they're supposed to have at least one copy of every book ever copyrighted in the U.S., in which case they should have all the Baum books. It would be a delightful field trip to go see them all and a worthy endeavor to try to get photocopies for my collection. -- Craig Noble ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 00:46:39 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Scott: The "Repairman" of whom you speak might be taken from Johnny Dooit, even though he is from a different book. I believe whoever spoke of Henson Productions (or Disney) owning the publishing rights to the Baum 14, they meant that they are the only ones who are allowed to make movies of those stories. I doubt they ever will, but one always has hopes. The Search for Spock: (or the FF): It took me 17 years to collect all of the FF. The last one I got was _Lucky Bucky_. It was a break for me in the early 80's when Del Rey reprinted most of the Thompson 19. Bob C: If I understand the book correctly, Ku-Klip was the only one nearby who could render aid to the Tin Woodman after his injuries and he was knowledgeable only with tin, so he may not have been able to sew the various body parts back together, and it is possible that at that time in Oz, his limbs may have decayed and died, thus making it impractical. Once the transformation to Tin started, there was no going back. David: True, that is the actual meaning of "Wherefore". I keep forgetting that, even though I read that play in high school. I really must change one of my web page titles as well. David: Laumer speculated on Butterfield, and your theory is as good as any I've every heard. There is a Butterfield, Missouri, but it's about 50 miles from the Kansas border. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:54:22, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 "Road" thoughts for today: Wasn't the tinman very inconsiderate and rude when he told Jack "your last head was a stupid one."(pg167) The tinman is suppose to have a very loving heart. This was out of character for him. In the Tinman's explanation of the Powder of Life to the Shaggy Man, Dyna just sprinkled the powder on the blue bear. How come Tip/Ozma had to use magic words and dance around? Is there capitol punishment in Oz? The Tinman states on page163 that "although if one is bad, he may be condemned and killed by the good citizens." Ruth Berman: Yes, I do worry when someone takes something that is not theirs, puts it in their pockets, hides it from the owner, and then lies to the owner about it. For whatever reason, it is still called stealing. Shaggy did all of that. Even if to just get the apples,(which I agreed he was NOT stealing) Shaggy dog-napped Toto, even if he planned to return him. You yourself called Shaggy a liar. You used the word "liberal" twice, insinuating that my views are liberal? I am proud to be a conservative Republican. The notion that anyone could condone Shaggy's actions sounds like "liberal mush" to me, to use your own words. In Bear's store, Shaggy probably would be arrested for shop lifting, which is exactly what he did throughout the book. He put things in his pockets that did not belong to him. You may call him innocent, I do not. Have an Ozzy day! Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:28:14 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Bear: Someone (it was not I) said," Cleanliness is next to godlness." Tyler: It was the French leader Clemanceau who is supposed to have said: If my son had not become a communist at twenty I would have disowned him. If he is still one at thirty, I will." To anyone who wa at Munchkin Convention: Was a date for the 1998 convention settled? I will be gone for a few days to Aberdeen. I will check out those books Bea Premack mentioned. I have already ready the pamphlet "A Tour of Baum's Aberdeen"; a copy sold for $25 at Ozmapolitan Con. Steve T. ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 17:10:44 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Ozzy Digest to Baringer -- nice touch!!! you are a most welcome addition to the Digest.......as you have tactfully observed, the members are all nice people and never have an intent to insult..........we tend to type as if we are talking and don't always understand how the written word may appear to others. I would love to know where the microfiche copies may be available: Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:12:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: Not books, but I suppose Jack Snow could be considered as contributing to non-FF Oz writing in the short story "Murder in Oz" and the fragment of a book published as "The Crystal People." // Enjoyed your explanation of "wherefore." // The name David has the advantages of a pleasant meaning ("Beloved") and an eponym who was apparently a great political leader, a fine musician, and genuinely much beloved, if not entirely trustworthy when it came to private morality. Bea Premack: I would certainly like to buy copies of "Oz in Aberdeen: A Catalogue of the L. Frank Baum Collection at the Alexander Mitchell Library" and "A Tour of L. Frank Baum's Aberdeen" if you can supply ordering information. I had intentions of trying to get to some of the Aberdeen festival this weekend as a Saturday day trip, but now that I've checked the map I don't think that's really manageable, and would have scheduling problems now with doing it as an overnighter. I'll hope to go another year. Dave Hardenbrook: The Disney people weren't afraid to promote "Return to Oz," just reluctant. The reluctance was a problem of a change in personnel -- the new bosses weren't interested in promoting the old bosses' projects. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 11:19:20 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Scott: >David: It seems to me normal physical principals work in Oz unless there >is some sort of magic in effect, but you've read more of the books than I >have. As Tyler pointed out, there are lots of strange things in the atmosphere of Oz that couldn't exist in our world. You can, of course, postulate that there's magic involved in all of them; once you invoke magic there's no possible way to prove that something doesn't involve it. It's true that most of the evidence is in Thompson or Neill; Baum only violates physics (without explicit use of magic) with some of Smith and Tinker's adventures and with Hiergargo's tunnel, at least as I recall, and both of those could be explained by magic quite easily. Kieran: I don't think anyone was trying to insult you. You haven't been active on the Digest long enough for us to know you very well, and a great many people who love Oz don't realize just how many books Baum wrote. If you're one of the handful of people who actually have read them all, I congratulate you. Christine: Melody Grandy went to the North Carolina Oz theme park when it was open and wrote up a reminiscence of it for the Digest a few months ago. I don't know about anyone else. Bob C.: You ask a good question about the Tin Woodman (and Tin Soldier, for that matter). Part of the answer is that reattaching their original parts would presumably have required the glue that Ku-Klip used, and only the WWE had that until her destruction. But that begs the question of how the tin parts were attached and "came to life". There's no explanation in any of the books as to how that worked. I think we have to assume that Ku-Klip, in addition to his skill as a tinsmith, was also a magic-worker of some talent, but that this talent only worked on tin. Ku-Klip says that he doesn't know whose heart Chopfyt has, since the meat parts of the two tin men weren't labeled and were all mixed up in a barrel. It could be Nick Chopper's, but it could also be Captain Fyter's. Bear: >On your Hitler subject, I >have never seen personal hygiene equated to morality. ??? You've never heard the saying, "Cleanliness is next to godliness?" :-) Ruth: All of Gordon Dickson's "Dragon" books are a lot of fun, and I think most Oz fans would probably enjoy them. (They're not children's books, but they're not Adult either; just good clean fun.) >Seems to me the only reasonable question here is not "Who >would steal a kid's dog?" but "Why didn't Dorothy challenge Shaggy's >obvious lie when she found Toto was along with them?" And I think the >narrative context answers that one: she was distracted by the sudden >and confusing unfamiliarity of the landscape. There's also the Love Magnet factor. The Shaggy Man doesn't get challenged much. (And in _Road_, unlike _Tik-Tok_, he doesn't need to show it to someone for them to love him.) Tyler: I agree that there's no evidence that the Oz universe is geocentric; when I said it seemed more Ptolemaic than Copernican I was referring more to its apparent size. Aaron: Glad to hear you're still around, just busy. We look forward to seeing you return to action when you have more free time. Dave: I checked out the Ozma rock group site a while back and I believe that one of the members is an Oz fan of sorts. But the group's music has nothing to do with Oz (or at least, none of it that they listed appeared to). I see nothing wrong with writing Oz books that would shackle future authors if they were accepted as canonical - but I don't think such a book should win the Centennial Contest, since that book is probably going to be considered at least deutero-canonical. (Along with the post-FF books by FF authors.) Other books have no such restriction, since any author has the right to ignore them. I don't think Disney was "afraid" to promote RTO in the US; they just didn't, I suspect for reasons of internal company politics. You got most of the FF there. You missed the three Peter From Philadelphia books and a handful of others. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 13:21:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest With the exception of a few nice people like Dave H (Both of them) and Melody and Tyler, as well as those people who have remained silent, I have been insulted left and right ever since I joined this mailing list. What am I doing wrong? Why is this happening? You folks ASKED how many Oz and related books we read in the profile questionnaire. My opinions, as expressed several weeks ago, regarding Oz books, were disregarded or put down. My qualms regarding my preferences were insulted and put down. Some of you folks are downright mean. That is not what I expected from an Ozzy digest. So many people write in saying how nice you all are. A lot of you are. And some aren't. Let this serve as my unsubscription from this list. I have enough problems without people I don't even know being mean to me. Thank you for the informative postings. I learned.... a little. I have nothing but the best of wishes for all of you. Have good lives. Goodbye, KF Miller ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:39:53 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Just reading David's description of what a PC user on AOL has to go through makes me thankful to be on Compuserve with a MAC. :) David >"Wherefore art thou Romeo?" Right! "Deny thy father, and refuse thy name," is the next line. Now Ruth - what would be more valuable to Dorothy, a diamond or Toto? :) Robin - With all your experience in teaching, you don't need lessons from me. :) By the way, teachers, I just have to go off subject a moment and share some definitions high school kids gave on a science test. Men are mammals and women are femammals. Involuntary muscles are not as willing as voluntary ones. Cadavers are dead bodies that have donated themselves to science. This procedure is called gross anatomy. The "pistol" of a flower is its only protection against insects. Water is composed of two "gins"--oxygin and hydrogin. Oxygin is pure gin; hydrogin is gin and water. Imagine those children being taught to water their gin. :) :) I think these are great. Anyone have any more? Humorously, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 97 14:56:01 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things UNSUBSCRIPTION: Thanks to those who posted kind words to Mr. Baringer in today's Digest, but since he unsubscribed, you'll have to E-mail him privately. "LET US HAVE EUREKA!"???: Robert J Collinge wrote: >Is there capitol punishment in Oz? The Tinman states on page163 that >"although if one is bad, he may be condemned and killed by the good >citizens." Lynchings in Oz???? (That's what it sounds like!) Doesn't sound Ozzy to *me*! POWDER OF LIFE: Robert J Collinge wrote: >In the Tinman's explanation of the Powder of Life to the Shaggy Man, >Dyna just sprinkled the powder on the blue bear. How come Tip/Ozma >had to use magic words and dance around? That was the "new and improved" Powder that didn't require that elaborate ritual??? (The "improved" powder is definitely in use by the time of _Patchwork Girl_...Pity there wasn't any left there by the time Ojo showed up!) "OZMA" ROCK GROUP: David H. wrote: >I checked out the Ozma rock group site a while back and I believe that >one of the members is an Oz fan of sorts. But the group's music has >nothing to do with Oz (or at least, none of it that they listed appeared >to). I took a peak at their site last night and even downloaded sound clips of their songs...It is definitely "hard" rock, not even rock of the ABBA variety, which I consider much closer to the realm of "Ozziness". -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 7 - 8, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 17:56:43 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 8-5-97 Nate: Thanks for the correction re: your 1st ed. of "Merry-Go-Round". (sigh! - the memory is the first to go.) And congratulations on a great convention! Mike: The most difficult Oz book for me to find was "Purple Prince". And this year's Munchkin auction had 2 or 3? Robin: New Jersey has some great Fall folliage, particularly the northwestern part of the state. David: "Return to Oz" is my favorite Oz movie, despite its faults. I saw the '39 Wizard when it opened in NYC and was very disappointed (at age 10) in it. We'll be looking for you at a future Munchkin con. Oz authors are always welcome. Eric Shanower is a regular attendee, and Rachel Cosgrove Payes and Robin Hess have appeared in recent years Bea: Welcome aboard. And good luck with the LFB Oz Festival! Please post particulars on obtaining the catalogue you mentioned. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 18:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Hello all! You've no doubt noticed I've been mysteriously absent from the e-pages of the Digest for several days. I've been in Wisconsin attending the 102nd birthday party of Grandma Steadman and the accompanying family reunion. Grandma, who only two years ago was energetic and sprightly, who conducted the Fourth of July parade yet again this past Independence Day (although in a golf cart, no longer able to march backward), had degenerated a great deal, and we were uncertain as to whether she would be able to attend the party. Luckily she was, and although she was unable to speak very loudly nor move by herself at all (she was in a wheeled chair the entire time), she was aware of us and we could be sure she enjoyed our visit. I'm going to try to respond to all the Digests I've missed, and will eventually, but will start with yesterday's and today's. On to the Digest of the 4th: POLL: I missed a poll?? Darn! I'm quite a-polled! NEW DAVE: Hello, Dave L.! Humanity and the Witches: I certainly hope we can't calll them human--that is, I think they're decidedly not human, as most humans (with the exception of the Wizard, who learns a little magic from Glinda) do not possess the level of power she does--not to mention fairies and such. Oz Web Ring: Someone please e-mail me privately and tell me (again) what it's all about, how to get on it (if I somehow suddenly get the time), and so forth. Sorry, I have no memory to speak of. Also, if there is a new questionnaire, could someone e-mail that to me too. Witches: I believe witches are as witches are, whether pagan, satanist, benevolent, or witchever. On to the 5th-- Plotted Courses? It seems to me that more Thompson Oz books had no plots than Baum books. Of course, having read few of Thompson's books (tho all of Baum's) that statement is completely unfounded and merely an impression, similar to my feelings about ---- parties and cats/dogs, which I thank everyone (sincerely) for disproving, lest I carry such unfounded thoughts with me forever. [[That is a run-on sentence, in case it wasn't obvious.]] Oz in the SF Section?! Quelle idee! SF and fantasy, contrary to popular belief, are two separate things. (Except, of course, for when they're mixed.) Re Compuserve: Only $10 a month (rather than $19.95)? Sounds good. If it were up to me I very well might do that. However, my family has gotten somewhat attached to AOL, for some reason... Big Bang Theory: Universal expansion also explains one perplexing problem I have every holiday or vacation--I always end up a bit rounder than I was before... Tyler: You seem shocked that Chris D. could claim some of Baum's Oz books are non-canonical. Well, if a book doesn't really contribute to the series, leave characters changed somewhat, explain earlier events, have a plot, or alter conditions somehow, a book is already borderline non-canonical, I think. Of course, that's just my opinion... Galactic clustering and the Big Bang theory: That happened before the Bang, I think. Galactically Vague, Jeremy AND KIEX! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 19:17:01 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Books of Wonder Oz Books Hi, Can anybody tell me if the Oz book reprints released by Books of Wonder are the closest to the original Reily & Lee books or is the another company that has even better reprints? I do not want to spend more that a few hundred and want to get only the ones by Baum. Thanks. -- David Levitan wizardofoz@iname.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 20:58:14 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls We keep working the Shaggy/Toto/Apples problem. I think there is a good reason. Some of us have read books past the BCF and have developed an affection for Shaggy. Some of us are meeting him for the first time, or have reached the stage of forgetfulness where they can't remember what he was like in future books. Like me. Sigh! In any event there is nothing wrong with liking someone and not approving of everything they do. Here is a little test. You are in the drug store with a good friend and you notice them pick something up and put it in their pocket. Giving them the benefit of the doubt you wait until you have checked out and ask them about it. They admit they stole it. What do you do? This actually happened to me and I told them I wanted them to take it back. They tried to give me a bunch of rationalizations but I wasn't having any. To make a longer story short, they took it back. By the way, this was not a child. I don't think it is part of friendship to excuse, accept or ignore bad behavior. What do you think? Pastor Bear once more: Stephen and David >" Cleanliness is next to godliness." I still don't see the equation of cleanliness to morality? It is important, however, on public transit. :) By the way, every time I go to write Stephen, I write Steven. Could someone (David?), tell me the difference, source, etc.? Is it like Geoffrey and Jeffrey? I'll just have to remember Stephen as in King! :) Poor Kieran - It must be a burden to be so sensitive to the opinions of others. I'm certainly glad I didn't growl at her. Hopefully she will miss us and wander back. She has now joined the "ERIC CLUB." I hope there are only two members. Sadly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 21:30:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Dave: As Ruth and someone else pointed out, Disney didn't back out of promoting RTO here because of fear. I wonder how well the movie would have done if they'd really tried... Bob C.: Thank you for the kind words about OZIANA. If it was a good issue, it's mostly because of the efforts of people on the DIGEST. There's nothing lovelier than N.H. in the fall? Maybe not, but East Texas in April would give it a run for the money: I can only imagine that the pioneers thought they'd found the promised land when they saw all the wildflowers. I don't mean that at all sarcastically. Our wildflower display can be, literally, awe inspiring. Too bad that the rest of the year this place looks (metaphorically, Jane and Steve) like Kansas with buildings. I hope you do make it to an Oz convention soon. The attendees freaquently become something of an extended family. We'd like to meet you, too. Earl: My last sentence reminds me how much I miss seeing you. If I can make it back to Munchies, I'll treat you to that drink, not vice versa. David: I can find the downloads just fine on aol. I just can't open 'em. Thanks anyway for the info. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 21:56:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Anyone else out there unhappy about baringer@aol.com's having unsubscribed? I am. sahutchiScott: I know you're not trying to snipe at my friends, but sometimes I feel like you are and I react, perhaps, with too much irritation...as with Tom Wilhite. I'm older, so I'll be the one who monitors my writing tone more carefully. Bear: My favorite original definition came from one of my students many years ago. "The Mayflower Compact was a deerskin pouch into which the Pilgrim ladies put their cosmetics." Uh huh. Thanks for having shared yours. Where is Oz?: I guess it's wherever you want it to be. For me, parallel universe works, but only sorta. Usually with that kind of tale, there'll be a crux...a turning point at which the parallel universes have split from one and diverged... Other dimension works a bit better for me. I think I'm being unclear here and am too tired to try to clarify. Anyone know what I mean? Unabashed plug for OZIANA '97: The cover is "blah," but Melody's artwork is sensational. And the stuff contributed by the DIGEST members is dandy. Check it out! So...let's have more stuff for OZIANA! C'mon! You guys are GOOD. Does anyone know who has the stories from the Oz Research (etc.) Tables? I'd like to read them and select some for this next year's issue. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 23:02:14 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Bear: >And now, back to Oz....... Speaking of which, do I recall that Melody has a new book out? Melody, could you give us details for purchase please if this is true? < Not yet. I did have a $15.00 sale on SBM1 in July. However, as well as other projects for Chris & others, I'm also working on SBM2... :-) Bob Spark: > I have just finished Melody Grandy's thoroughly delightful _The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz_ and Melody, you have gained a fan. What an entertaining book! I vastly enjoy Zim and am looking forward to the next in the series. One question. Perhaps I missed it, or perhaps it is not significant, but I am curious about the patches on Zim's elbows in the illustrations. At any rate, Melody, Thanks.< Thank YOU, Bob! As for those patches--as himself, Zim likes to wear fine clothes (he has lots of those full-sleeved green silk shirts and green satin knee breeches!) and when they wear at the knees & elbows, he patches them and gardens in 'em. :-) Bob C. >With all the talk of death and destruction, I wonder why the Tinman had to have new tin accessories put on. Why weren't his original limbs just re attached? Are they not attached now to Chopfyt? Does Chopfyt now have the Tinman's original heart? Just a thought.....< Nick's original limbs were not reattached because the Wicked Witch refused to lend out her Magic Meat Glue for that purpose. And Ku-Klip did not know whose heart he gave to Chopfyt, since most hearts look alike... Christine Gray > Just out of curiosity, did anyone on the list ever go to The Land of Oz amusement Park in the mountains of North Carolina? It was one of my favorite places as a child.< I did--and it was one of my favorite places as a gal in her twenties! A while ago, I wrote a description of the park & its activities for the Digesters. If you want to contribute your two cents, in case you recall some things I don't, be our guest. :-) Dave: >although if one is bad, he may be condemned and killed by the good citizens." Oz wouldn't be much of a Utopia if they kept bad citizens around... Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 03:03:21 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Atticus wrote : if anyone's interested, i'll look at my notes and write a bit about the interesting aspects of these documents [_Magic_ & _Tin Woodman_]. Yes, please! And he continued: incidentally, as far as i know these are the only baum oz manuscripts extant. maud burned the others in the backyard. I understand that the manuscript for _Glinda of Oz_ still exists in a private collection. still in awe too, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 21:00:41 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Hello all, Bear, I've lost your rejoinder about Molly Ivins or I would quote it, but I enjoyed it. Atticus, > today i had the inestimable privilege of examining l. frank baum's > original, handwritten manuscripts for _the tin woodman of oz_ and _the > magic of oz_, which are in a library right here at the university of texas. > if anyone's interested, i'll look at my notes and write a bit about the > interesting aspects of these documents. > By all means let us know about them. I, for one, am vastly interested. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 20:52:52 -0700 From: Robert Schroeder Subject: Ozzy Digest Goodies... Hey Gang! Sorry about the little mistake on the director of Shirley Temple's "Land of Oz." I got a little mixed up on where I was looking (darn bifocals)...but the cast for this show is correct. I took this from a book called "The World of Oz, 85 Years of Magic" written by Allen Eyles. It was published in 1985 to coincide with the release of "The Return to Oz." This is also a British publication, but printed in the US. As far as why the TV special was judged to be not very good, apparently folks had a hard time dealing with a cross-dressing Shirley Temple. She played a boy and a girl...the boy's part (Tip) she wore a page-boy type wig and lip-synched. And my apologies about not being clear about the distinction between publishing and movie rights. According to what I could dig up, after 'RTO' Henson Productions had an option on movie rights but passed. The last I heard ( and this is sometime ago and remember, the mind goes as fast as the eyes) Spielberg had some interest in the rights. I don't know if he ever purchased them or not. And as for Henson's involvement in RTO, I think I got that mixed up with "The Dark Crystal" which was filmed about the same time and with Henson in charge of special effects. Atticus: Another Austinite? And you mean, there are original manuscripts of Baum's at the Harry Ransom Center? I knew they had an excellent collection of original manuscripts, including Christopher Isherwood's diaries, but didn't know about Baum. I suppose it is time to pay a visit and perhaps read a little from them....and make everyone else jealous...my first OZ reading...and I will be reading it in Baum's own handwriting... Sorry to see Baringer leave the list, but I somewhat know how he feels. Imagine, on my first posting, I make a mistake, and I get put down as being wrong. And that was only in one person's post (I'll not mention her name). As for everyone else, I thank you for the wonderful welcome and I look forward to learning a lot from all of you. And thanks Dave for all your work in putting this together. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:17:53 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz I mean no disrespect, Godfather: Most of the confusion over this issue, I belive, is that many people may not be aware of just how many books Baum wrote in his lifetime (many under assumed names) and how hard to find some of them are. Of the ones I don't have, the only ones I'd care to read would be _The Daring Twins_ and _Phoebe Daring_. Has anybody read these and would they care to give an analysis? Robert Collinge: There are two possible explanations for the difference in the application of the Powder of Life. We have theorized that early versions of the Powder were not very potent. It was not enough to simply sprinkle the powder on the object. You had to perform an incantation along with it. Later versions were more refined and did not need the magic spell. However, it seems that the powder used by Dyna was a very early version. It may be that the Tin WOodman got the information second or third hand and by the time he got around to telling it, some of the details were left out. ********** POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR SEVERAL FF ********** There is little if any capital punishment in Oz. Glegg was destroyed at the end of _Kabumpo_, althouigh David Hulan has pointed out that this may not have been intentional. Mombi was deliberately executed at the end of _Lost King_. Mooj was turned into a drop of water in the Nonestic Ocean at the end of Ojo and that, for all practical purposes, is the same as killing him. Eureka was put on trial for her life at the end of _DotWiz_, although there has been quite a lot of speculation about that. In _Patchwork Girl_, the Tin Woodman seemed willing to let Unc Nunkie and Margolotte remain statues rather than risk a butterfly, but it was the case of saving two people or killing another living thing. Mombi was threatened with death at the end of _Land_, but only "as a matter of form", since Glinda was sure that Mombi would cooperate. ********** END OF SPOILERS ********** Bill Wright and Barringer: Welcome back Bill! We haven't heard much from you lately. It has been remarked before, on the digest and elsewhere on the Internet, that reading typed text is not as personal as real conversation and the words can sometimes seem much harsher than they were really meant to be. Also, we tend to forget that there are real human beings with feelings reading these words so we need to be a little extra careful. In the long run, I think we on the DIgest do a pretty good job. Cleanliness... (you know the rest): It is interesting that, despite this phrase, many men of the cloth in literature are usually very dirty. Such as the phrase "The unwashed and stinking priesthood" (no offense, of course). Belgarath: "...Any kind of touch can soil him" Barak: "Soil? He's as dirty as a pig in a wallow" Belgarath: "It's a different kind of dirt". Lycnhings in Oz: Watch out, Dave! Sherrif: We don't cotton to nobody trying to marry Ozma around here. take him away! Dan: Noooooo!!!!!! --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 08:02:14 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 8/5 Digest, while talking about Adolf Hitler's morals (or lack thereof), Bear says, What, Bear? You have never heard that cleanliness is next to godliness? :-) Also on the question of evil, Dave Hardenbrook asks, Wanting to something wrong may be evil, but is certainly less evil than doing the wrong thing. However, it this case, *I* see nothing wrong in the wanting or in the doing -- assuming, of course, that Ozma accepts the proposal. And, Bea in Aberdeen asks if any of us would be interested in the details of obtaining the "Oz in Aberdeen" catalog, the "A Tour of L. Frank Baum's Aberdeen" pamphlet, and the book. Bea, of course we're interested! Post them in the Digest, please, for all to see. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:18:26, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Tyler Jones: I accept your explanation of Ku-Klip being the only one around to fix Nick Chopper. But, weren't Nick's old limbs used to create ChopFyte, meaning that they did not decay? Thanks for your response. (Thank you, David Hulan, also.) KF Miller: I sure hope you have changed your mind about the digest. It is okay to disagree without being disagreeable. To those of you who were mean, shame on you! Bear: Humor is good for all of us. Thank you. Bill Wright: I agree with you. We cannot read any emotions into what others have written. No one can possibly know how we were feeling when we write, and therefore should not assume other's emotions. I don't think any of us intentionally would insult someone for their opinion. Dave Hardenbrook: The Tinman's explanation didn't sound "ozzy" to me either, but it sounds as if the "good" citizens could eliminate the "bad" ones. Are there any examples in any FF books where someone was destroyed on purpose? Have an Ozzy day! Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 17:06:23 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Ozzy Digest ref the recent discussions over the location of Butterfield. Can it be presumed that where Shaggy was headed was either in Kansas or an adjacent state? And do we have any fix on where in Kansas Dorothy and her Aunt and Uncle lived? Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 10:44:02 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Atticus: Sounds like a positively religious experience. Anybody know why Maud burned the rest of the original MSS (or how those two survived)? Tyler: Since all the Baum books are PD, I don't see how anyone could own the movie rights to them. Maybe Henson/Disney owns the movie rights to the FF books that remain under copyright? Presumably Nick's meat parts didn't decay or die, since some of them were used to make Chopfyt and his head was still alive at the time of _Tin Woodman_. Some of them must have been lost, though, since Ku-Klip could only find one arm of the four Nick and Fyter lost between them. I don't think Butterfield, Missouri, would have been the one Shaggy didn't want to visit. Although the specific location of Uncle Henry's farm isn't given, the few references indicate that it's probably not very close to the Missouri line. Topeka is the only city referred to, so it's probably the closest place of any size; if they were near the Missouri line you'd expect a reference to Kansas City instead. (I can't even find Butterfield, MO, in my road atlas; I'll have to see if I can locate it - or other Butterfields near Kansas - on my "Street Atlas USA" CD-ROM.) Bob C.: Actually, the Tin Woodman says that he has a kind heart, but not a loving one. Still, telling Jack that his last head was a stupid one isn't kind, either. There is definitely capital punishment in Oz. Eureka is threatened with it in _DotWiz_, and Glegg in _Kabumpo_ and Mombi in _Lost King_ are at least apparently destroyed. There may be other cases that don't come to mind offhand. The incantation, etc., that Mombi and Tip had to use on the Powder of Life in _Land_ was apparently only necessary for the first experimental batch. By the second batch, which Dyna inherited, it was only necessary to wish the object alive. And by the third (or possibly fourth - was Bungle animated by the same batch as the bearskin, or a later one?) batch, in _Patchwork Girl_, it required nothing but sprinkling. Answering my own question above, I think Bungle must have been animated by the same batch as the bearskin. It takes six years to make a batch, and I don't believe that there could have been 18 years between _Land_ and _Patchwork Girl_. Even 12 years seems too much; 6 is about right. Maybe the batch Pipt sold to Mombi was some years old, and he was willing to give it up because he'd just finished a new batch with improved action. (In publishing history there were 9 years between _Land_ and _Patchwork Girl_, but the ages of Dorothy and Button-Bright make it highly unlikely that the events of those books are even that far apart, though it's just possible if you cut the time between _Wizard_ and _Land_ and between _Patchwork Girl_ and _Scarecrow_ to a minimum. It's improbable that there are more than five years between _Wizard_ and _Emerald City_ because of Dorothy's age, or between _Road_ and _Scarecrow_ because of Button-Bright's, and we know that _Wizard_ comes before _Land_, _Road_ before _Emerald City_, and _Patchwork Girl_ before _Scarecrow_ and after _Emerald City_, from internal evidence as well as publication order. It's hard to juggle dates in any way that would allow 12 years between _Land_ and _PG_.) Technically speaking, if Shaggy planned to return Toto it wasn't stealing, but wrongful appropriation. Or at least, that's a distinction in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is the only criminal law I've studied. Bear: The gyrations regarding long E-mail messages are a function of AOL, not of OS. It's the same on a Mac as on a PC. But Compuserve has had its own problems, and I think I'm happier with an independent ISP. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:06:43 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Atty: Please, by all means let us know what you discovered in the original handwritten manuscripts of _Tin Woodman_ and _Magic_! About Shaggy's habit of pocketing things that don't belong to him: isn't this to be expected (though not necessarily condoned) in a tramp who has no means of sustenance? What I find interesting here is the fact that Baum takes a figure on the very margins of society and makes him into the most endearing character in the book. (Sorry, all you Polychrome fans!) A valuable object lesson for his young readers. And Shaggy is endearing in and of himself, not merely because of that infernal love magnet, which I consider a truly sinister invention. Think what could happen if *that* little implement were to fall into the wrong hands. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 16:02:31 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi, I have a quesition about Ozma's history. In the Land of Oz and many Oz FAQs it says that Ozma was King Pastoria's daughter. However, in the Magical Mimics in Oz, it says that Ozma was left in King Pastoria's care by Fairy Lurline after Oz was made a fairyland. I think that the second idea is right, because King Pastoria didn't have any fairy powers, but Ozma has many fairy powers. Also, is Glinda a fairy? in the Shaggy Man of Oz, the Fairy Beaver King says that Glinda's fairy magic does not work well underground. However, in the Magical Mimics in Oz, Ozma says that even though Glinda is not a fairy, she is taking Glinda with her to the meeting. Thanks -- David Levitan wizardofoz@iname.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 15:10:16 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Atticus: I'd enjoy seeing your comments on aspects of the "Tin Woodman" and "Magic" mss. David Hulan: Like you, I don't think anyone was trying to insult Kieran Miller. I scanned through the comments, and Gordon Birrell made it clear that he was questioning the claim of having read all Baum's books because it's a difficult feat, given the rarity of many of them. (If anyone else asked about it, I can't seem to find it under Kieran's name.) If he's as touchy as he sounds in his complaint and his goodbye message, it's probably just as well that he left. Bear: When I was a teaching assistant for a Milton course, I noticed that the students made a lot of boners trying to cope with the difficult material. The most amusing were "Milton's pension for irony" and the appearance in "Paradise Regained" of "the holy trilogy." I refrained from asking if that was "The Lord of the Rings." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 18:03:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Craig: Wouldn't copying microfisched original Oz books violate copyright? Oh, that's right--they're in PD anyway. The idea is intriguing, although I'd rather read the texts in book form personally The Powder of Life: Baum is just as inconsistent in his descriptions of the process of using the Powder as in his descriptions of when Ozma looks in the Magic Picture at Dorothy. Ah, well; perhaps, like most things, the process was rendered easier (if more confusing) with technological advances :-) . Steve: You said, "Bear: Someone (it was not I) said, 'Cleanliness is next to godlness.' " Correction: You just did. ;-) KF Miller (Baringer) [in memory of]: What are we doing that people unsubscribe from the Digest? I mean, I could *try* to tone down my puns, but I don't think that's what's doing it. If someone wants to e-mail me privately and explain to an uncomprehending teenager, I'd welcome it. Of course, I still haven't read the Digests of the past week, and might find the explanation therein . . . I'll get to that task now. I will, however, respond to it in another post. Silly, perhaps, but my computer's acting strangely, and I want to send this one before I have to reboot and write it all all over again. Until my next post (which should be soon), Jeremy and KIEX ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:02:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: old oz books Ozzy Digesters: I received this email via my web page. If anyone can help this person out, please respond to her directly. I don't think she is on the digest. Thanks! Jim Whitcomb of ... Jim's "Wizard of Oz" website URL: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/ >Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 15:44:38 -0500 >From: clementd@ccmangum.com (Clement, Dawn) >Subject: old oz books >To: whitcomb.1@osu.edu > >Jim, I have recently come across some first edition oz books that my >mother owned. I was trying to find out how much these books would be >worth. I have seven all together ranging from 1899 to 1937. They are >all first edition. Please e-mail me with a guesstamation if you would, > My address is clementd@ccmangum.com They are not exactly in mint >condition, but they aren't bad either. > Thank you for your time, > Dawn Clement > > > ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 02:43:03 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: Oz Filmography Is Scott Hutchins a digest subscriber? I'd like him to submit his Oz Filmography electronically for editing and publication in the IWOC online reference library. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot The International Wizard of Oz Club ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:21:51 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Earl- and what is this red shift? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:19:56 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Ruth: I've never been able to find the book of _The Flight of Dragons_, nor can I find Mark E. Rodgers's novella that was the basis for Willard's _The Runestone_. All I can find by him is _The Sword of Samurai Cat_. I imagine, as with Hitchcock or the French New Wave, the film is better than the book. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 23:19:02 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Dates for 1998 In response to Stephen Teller's question about whether there were dates set for the 1998 Munchkin Convention: If there were I didn't hear about it, and I was there until the bitter end every night. It is good to be back on the digest everyone; I am enjoying all of your discussions. I am sorry to be a "lurker" but entering my senior year in college is putting a stop to reading any Oz books and my memory is a bit foggy about many details you are discussing. Liz Schaible schaible@sj.bigger.net ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:02:54 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bob Collinge: Hmm. You say you call it stealing "when someone takes something that is not theirs." Well, yes, if that's the definition you're using, it's defensible in terms of what's in the dictionary, and Shaggy definitely stole Toto. But in that case you're worrying too much and going into an inappropriate there-are-laws-against-that-sort-of-thing high dudgeon against stealing. For stealing to be considered a serious crime, it has to be defined more precisely. To quote "Webster's Collegiate," to steal is "to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully." Without that intent to keep or make use of wrongfully, it isn't the same thing. As I've argued previously, Shaggy obviously intended to return the dog. The kind of "stealing" involved in taking somewithing without right or leave but WITHOUT INTENT TO KEEP OR MAKE USE OF WRONGFULLY is nothing more than "borrowing without permission." Certainly, borrowing without permission is a genuine problem to society, the more so when the object borrowed without permission is valued by the owner, and when the borrower tells a lie in trying to hide the fact that the point of borrowing the item was to try to hide that the borrower had been genuinely trying to steal something else, albeit something trivial (the apples). And certainly it's appropriate to worry that Shaggy is a liar -- Baum obviously worries about it, and dumps Shaggy in the Truth Pond before allowing him to settle in Oz. But it is considerably out of balance to worry about stealing in the sense of "borrowing without permission" as if it were the same thing, either morally or legally, as "stealing" in the more precise sense. They are not the same. Treating them as the same obscures the difference between something important and something trivial. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:43:41 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Wiz Oz Soundtrack The wiza soundtrack has finally been released. Unfortunately, I had already ordered it at $25 when I found it at Best Buy Greenwood (South side) for $16.99. This really irked me because I had someone look it up in the computer at the North side Best But (where I live) just two days ago! He said they didn't carry it. Soundtrack collectors are the least respected people in the music store... Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:14:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Ozzy Digest Garrett Perryman Hello Eveyone I've been a suscriber to the Digest for a long time but this is my first time writing. I was at MunchCon It was a good year I'd been there 1995. I have always liked maps so I decied to Make the Definitive Map of Oz.So I would like anyone to send me new places from any published Oz book.Send the name of the country or etc. and location in Oz try to be exact.To me at perrys@mccc.edu ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 06:38:01 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Capitalization Atticus, I quote from the Sampler Request put out by email daily by L.M. Boyd: > English is the only language that capitalizes the > personal pronoun "I." Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 19:19:59 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Re: Permission to use E-texts Sorry, what I meant to ask you is if I can use them on my web site. Also, I scanned in the covers of The Silver Princess in Oz, Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz, the Wonder City of Oz, Merry Go Round in Oz, and The cowardly Lion of Oz. Can I use these on my web site as well (are they also public domain, they are all reprints by BoW)? Thanks Dave L. Hardenbrook wrote: > > At 09:21 PM 8/6/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > >Is it okay if I use the e-texts you sent me? > >Thanks > > Sure...It's all in the public domain... > > -- Dave > -- David Levitan wizardofoz@iname.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 12:38:12 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Scott wrote: >Earl- and what is this red shift? I'll give the "Carl Sagan" part of my brain a rest and let someone else field this one. :) "SMOKE ME A KIPPER, I'LL BE BACK FOR OZADE": :) Robin wrote: >Where is Oz?: I guess it's wherever you want it to be. For me, parallel >universe works, but only sorta. Usually with that kind of tale, there'll be >a crux...a turning point at which the parallel universes have split from >one and diverged... Other dimension works a bit better for me. I think >I'm being unclear here and am too tired to try to clarify. Anyone know >what I mean? Of course, the term "parallel universe" implies the diversion of histories, and that sort of thing I wouldn't use in an Oz book...Use "another dimension" if you prefer although the distinctions are murky... Although I'd never use "parallel universe" implicitly in an Oz bbok, I think they could explain the inconsistancies in non-canonical books, including mine...Just as in the Red Dwarf universe there are two very different Arnold Rimmers due to diverging histories, there could be by the same token two Ozmas...A universe in which Ozma remains a little girl forever, and one in which she grows and marries...Take your pick. While I've entertained for fun writing a short story in which the two Ozmas from different dimensions meet, I wouldn't put it in a "mainstream" Oz book...I think... :) And talking about... Earl wrote: >Wanting to something wrong may be evil, but is certainly less evil than >doing the wrong thing. However, it this case, *I* see nothing wrong in >the wanting or in the doing -- assuming, of course, that Ozma accepts the >proposal. Thank you for the vote of confidence. :) In _That Ozzy Feeling_ Ozma *does* accept...Emphatically. "LAND OF OZ" SHIRLEY TEMPLE VERSION: A boy lip-synched for Shirley when she's Tip??? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! No one saw any need for someone to lip-synch Mary Martin in _Peter Pan_! MOVIE RIGHTS: FWIW if I found the idea of Henson having the rights to Oz scary, I find the idea of Speilburg having them terrifying! Say it ain't so! OZMA'S ORIGIN: David L. wrote: >I have a quesition about Ozma's history. In the Land of Oz and many Oz >FAQs it says that Ozma was King Pastoria's daughter. However, in the >Magical Mimics in Oz, it says that Ozma was left in King Pastoria's care >by Fairy Lurline after Oz was made a fairyland. I think that the second >idea is right, because King Pastoria didn't have any fairy powers, but >Ozma has many fairy powers. There are of course many ideas about this, but here is Melody's theory, which I accept: Pastoria (Ozma's dad) was mortal, Ozette (Ozma's mum) was a fairy. Ozma is their natural offspring and so is naturally half-fairy, but Lurline subsequently gave her full fairyhood when she assumed the Ozian throne. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 9 - 10, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:33:27 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 Robin: I wish people would stop interpreting my observations as attacks. I don't know why you (not to mention Katherine) seem to interpret things I write in my e-mails this way. It just seemed to me that everything I knew of that Wilhite had worked on had none done well at the box office, though I had liked it, which I don't think is an insult. BTW, when did wilhite produce for Groucho Marx. This information is not in the imdb. Was he instrumental in the ultimately-never-made 1960 Gore Vidal teleplay _The Magical Monarch of Mo_, which was to star Groucho (Julius Henry) in the title role? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 02:46:49 -0500 From: International Wizard of Oz Club Subject: RE: Ozzy FAQ 2.0! Dave, I used to be able to open the message header and see the distribution list. Now it appears to be from and to YOU and only contains your e-mail address. Perhaps you could add an item about how to obtain an e-mail list of digest subscribers. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot The International Wizard of Oz Club ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 18:08:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, playing catchup Okay, still catching up here. July 30-- Ted: Welcome to the Digest! (That's said belatedly, since I was away when you joined and am only now catching up on Digests missed.) As to money in Oz--as you were probably informed in the Digests I haven't read yet, Baum was somewhat unclear on all the details about Oz and how it works when he first started writing about it. Soon enough, though, Ozma and others set him straight. :-) Earl Abbe: Oh, I thought the Windier Convention meant it was being held in Chicago this year :-) . Stolen Apples? Quite so--if wind had knocked the apples into the next farmyard (or the next county), Uncle Henry would have little jurisdiction or control over who picked them up. David H: You contrast RINKITINK with LAND by saying that while RINKITINK is Ozzy the whole way through, "The central theme of LAND is the establishment of the rightful ruler of Oz, OK, but it is not a quest that the characters are set on for all or even most of the book." I disagree--RINKITINK still has no plot to speak of, so I think it is an inferior book and unOzzy in that sense. Barbara: Oh, okay--it was the same questionnaire I did awhile back (when I was at school, as it happens). So I guess I didn't miss too much. Oz books in Libraries: In Tinton Falls, NJ, I was able to read all the Baums and *possibly* some of the Thompsons. Or maybe it wasn't until I got to Richardson, Texas that I could read those. I don;t remember. Anyway, we're lucky that not all librarians dislike Oz books. On to the 31st-- Aging in Oz: I'm not too happy about this "slow-aging" theory--while it does allow for very young to eventually "grow up", I vastly prefer Baum's "age-as-you-wish" idea of Oz aging. Call me a purist. Call me literal-minded. Even call me (eek!) conservative! But I do go by the book--Baum's Oz, and his conception and description--above all others. Even my own! And tthe 1st-- Artists: I admire anyone who can make "computerese" or e-mail drawings, just using the normal keys. Shaggy: True, not all of us have stealed ourselves to the task of dissecting his behavior . . . Sort of off the subject: Robert Scroeder mentioned a Bookstop in Austin, TX. When I lived in the Dallas area, one of the few advantages to Texas life was the availability and proximity of a Bookstop. Nothing like that here! (I heard rumors that an Oxford Books, which I never went into, arrived 5 years ago, and recently ... closed?? Must find out! And it'd all be easier if I could drive . . .) Robert: LOL! That's all there is to it! Ted: I certainly hope rambling isn't outlawed here--I do enough of it! Dave: If you keep asking those questions, they'll be RFAQ's --Really Frequently Asked Questions. With that, Jeremy Steadman AND KIEX say tata! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:45:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Nesi Subject: Ozzy Digest: Return to Oz X-Originating-IP: [207.180.8.193] I found "Return to Oz" kind of strange. First of all, I think it went to great lengths to establish the Oz characters in Kansas. Second, AUNT EM TAKING DOROTHY TO A MENTAL INSTITUTION?! That just doesn't strike me as Ozzy. Of course I haven't seen the film in a while so I may find it different if I view it in my old age. Ted *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** * TED'S LUCILLE BALL PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/LUCINDEX.HTM * * * * TED'S MUPPET PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/mupindex.html * * * * CLASSIC TELEVISION * * http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/6066/TVINDEX.HTM * * * * THE UNOFFICIAL "WIZARD OF OZ" HOME PAGE * * http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9151/ * * * * "Do you pop out at parties? Are you unpoopular? Well are * * you??" - Lucy Ricardo (Lucille Ball, "I Love Lucy," 1952) * *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 17:55:46 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 Robin: Why would I try to snipe at your friens when I am a great admirer of their art? (Well, I've onlt seen one Martha Coolidge film (_Real Genius_), but I've seen most of Tom and Willard's work, and liked most of it a great deal. Besides, they're working in positions in an industry that I want to be in. (No one could direct my centenniel entry but me, because no one else would do the crazy stuff I want to do, like have a character yell his thoughts at the camera when no one else is around, and other things harder to describe). Robert: RTOz had some of the same crew as _The Dark Crystal_, including production designer Norman Reynolds and makup artist Robin Grantham. Their styles show through, no? Bill: I think it was in Annotated Wizard that it is mentioned that Baum said the farm was near Topeka. Jim: I'll snail mail a copy of the filmography when I finsh translating _Oz_ (1992) and update _I Married a Munchkin_ and the '56 fil I ordered from real. If you want to see a great comedy about a parallel universe, check out Mikel B. Anderson's _Kamillions_, if you can possibly find it!!! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 20:05:31 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 hello, all. for once, i'll be writing a semi-lengthy post, since i shall be describing certain aspects of the baum manuscripts i examined. SHAGGY: DID HE BORROW, BEG, OR STEAL? >We keep working the Shaggy/Toto/Apples problem. not to sound testy or anything, but this is getting a little drawn-out. ROBIN: >Anyone else out there unhappy about baringer@aol.com's having unsubscribed? >I am. i am as well, but methinks she was a little sensitive. of course, many might react similarly if one of their initial postings were criticized. SCOTT OLSEN: >I understand that the manuscript for _Glinda of Oz_ still exists in a >private collection. you're right; i recall reading this somewhere. it seems to me that for a while, at least, one of baum's relatives had it. TYLER: >********** POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR SEVERAL FF ********** >There is little if any capital punishment in Oz. Glegg was destroyed at the >end of _Kabumpo_, althouigh David Hulan has pointed out that this may not >have been intentional. Mombi was deliberately executed at the end of _Lost >King_. Mooj was turned into a drop of water in the Nonestic Ocean at the >end of Ojo and that, for all practical purposes, is the same as killing >him. Eureka was put on trial for her life at the end of _DotWiz_, although >there has been quite a lot of speculation about that. In _Patchwork Girl_, >the Tin Woodman seemed willing to let Unc Nunkie and Margolotte remain >statues rather than risk a butterfly, but it was the case of saving two >people or killing another living thing. Mombi was threatened with death at >the end of _Land_, but only "as a matter of form", since Glinda was sure >that Mombi would cooperate. don't forget that in _ojo_ not only was mooj "liquidated" (echoes of MGM), but ozma also sent the gypsies to europe, which was in effect a death sentence--in the great outside world they'll probably grow old and expire. DAVID HULAN: >Atticus: >Sounds like a positively religious experience. Anybody know why Maud >burned the rest of the original MSS (or how those two survived)? from what i recall (i'm not sure where i read this, perhaps in _to please a child_, which i borrowed from the library one time), maud's rationale was, "my husband's dead, all these books are in print and making money, what do i need these old manuscripts for?" i'm guessing the surviving manuscripts were in the possession of other relatives, but for the life of me i can't explain how they got to the university of texas, of all places. BOB SPARK: >Atticus, > I quote from the Sampler Request put out by email daily by L.M. >Boyd: >> English is the only language that capitalizes the >> personal pronoun "I." and i quote from emerson: "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." i capitalize in my formal writing. i don't feel i have to impress anyone with conventional capitalization on the digest. ;) as a matter of fact, i was copy editor of my high school newspaper for three years, and my grammar, punctuation, etc. is well-nigh impeccable when i so choose. DAVE HARDENBROOK: >"LAND OF OZ" SHIRLEY TEMPLE VERSION: >A boy lip-synched for Shirley when she's Tip??? That's the dumbest thing >I've ever heard! No one saw any need for someone to lip-synch Mary Martin >in _Peter Pan_! as i recall, when i saw this show at a convention five years ago, i thought it was pretty lame. AND NOW, MY OBSERVATIONS ON THE ORIGINAL, HANDWRITTEN BAUM MANUSCRIPTS: _the tin woodman of oz_: scrawled on the first page was the following list: Vooles of Voobrille Kraux Divus apparently, these were place and character names he considered putting in the book but ultimately did not. i guess he replaced "Vooles" with "Loons." i gained some insight into baum's somewhat haphazard "consistency" when i noticed that he wrote "Witch of the East" and then circled "East," as though he were uncertain whether the compass direction was correct. perhaps it WAS baum and not the wogglebug who confused east and west... _the magic of oz_ this manuscript was made even more interesting in that on the backs of some of the pages were both a portion of the original, suppressed version of _mary louise_ as well as a portion of _mary louise solves a mystery_. yes, baum recycled... also, although baum largely used blank typewriter paper to write on, he likewise used stationery. i observed the following letterhead on the back of one of the manuscript pages: THE MOTORLIFE COMPANY OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES ROBERT S. BAUM, DISTRIBUTOR even more interesting was the back of another manuscript page: OZ TOY COMPANY MANUFACTURERS OF TOYS, GAMES, NOVELTIES JOLIET, ILLINOIS (a picture of the woozy also appeared on this stationery, along with the slogan, "Be a Woozy--be square") other pages were written on l. frank baum's personal "ozcot" stationery reading: L. FRANK BAUM "OZCOT" AT HOLLYWOOD IN CALIFORNIA in the middle of the stationery is a boxed writing area. the box is encircled by half-tone photos of (clockwise from left top corner) _road_, _scarecrow_, _land_, _rinkitink_, _patchwork_, _phoebe daring_, _the daring twins_, _john dough_, _emerald city_, _sea fairies_, _dot & wiz_, _little wizard stories_, _ozma_, and _tik-tok_ (a reproduction of this stationery appeared on page 14 of the spring '93 _bugle_). notes of interest concerning the text itself: alongside scraps's poem for ozma which appears in the published book at the beginning of chapter six, baum penned the following, ultimately unused couplet: "I am patched and gay and scrappy You're a fairy, wise and snappy." and most INTERESTINGLY of all, the magic transformation word, which is consistently spelled "Pyrzqxgl" in the published book, is NEVER spelled this way in the manuscript. baum, inconsistent like he sometimes was, spelled the word "Pryzqxgl" most often, but also spelled it "Prysqxgl," "Pryzyxgl," and "Pryqxgl." apparently someone at reilly & lee must have thought reversing the r and the y would result in a more pronounceable word. hmmm. or a more visually appealing one, at any rate. finally, i was quite impressed by the fact that baum was able to sit down and write in longhand with far fewer scratch-outs or insertions than one would expect. as i recall reading somewhere, sir arthur conan doyle's sherlock holmes manuscripts are much like that. i hope you've found my report to be of interest, and i welcome any queries you may have. once again, i feel extremely privileged to have had the experience and would be happy to share any further details. atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 21:54:18 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 David Levitan: >Also, is Glinda a fairy? in the Shaggy Man of Oz, the Fairy Beaver King says that Glinda's fairy magic does not work well underground. However, in the Magical Mimics in Oz, Ozma says that even though Glinda is not a fairy, she is taking Glinda with her to the meeting.< In a Baum book or two (perhaps "Lost Princess," Baum calls Glinda a fairy. "That Ozzy Feeling" attempts to solve the problem of the contradicting reports by having Ak say that Glinda was once a mortal, but was awarded a fairyhood. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 22:28:40 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - Milton - Great! I've noticed that Jeremy has a pension for plays on words. I wonder if he will be able to retire on it. :) It's too bad Baum didn't do what Twain did and annotate his copy of his books. Oh no, Ruth. You mean we have to read Shaggies mind and determine if he really meant to steal something? I think the distinction you are trying to draw is one that was put in for the benefit of criminals by the ACLU and our perverted judiciary. The law should not be in the mind reading business. People should be judged by their actions. You want me to wait, after you have stolen a diamond from my store, to see if you really keep it or make some other use of it. Well, not in my court. Sigh. To quote you >"As I've argued previously, Shaggy obviously intended to return the dog." I am really curious as to what makes this "obvious." It is not at all obvious to me. Moving a little farther, this event ("borrowing without permission" if you insist) does not seem like the type of lesson to be giving small children (and the rest of us). This reminds me that some state (I forget which) passed a law that required psychologists to wear a tall pointed hat, with stars and moons on it, when testifying in court. I thought that was great! Objectively, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 23:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 Robin: Yes, I'm also unhappy about Kieran unsubscribing from the Digest. I sent him a private e-mail asking him to reconsider. I feel bad because I was one of the people who expressed astonishment at his claim to have read all of Baum's books. However, I don't think I (or anyone else) accused him of lying. I'm really quite confused about exactly what it was that he found so offensive. Manuscripts: What's this about Maud burning LFB's original manuscripts in the backyard. Why would she do that? BTW for those of you who have seen them, what do Baum's manuscripts look like? I remember when I used to compose longhand, my manuscripts were messy collections of crossed out words with sentences and arrows running along the margins. Are Baum's like that, or are they clean? Jeremy and KIEX: I've read all of Baum's Oz books. It was some of his more obscure non-Oz books that I was wondering about reading on microfiche... stuff like _Tamawaca Folks_ and _The Fate of Crown_, stuff that I expect could take a lifetime to find. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 00:38:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 Atty: Did you note the stuff from Michael Patrick Hearn about those MSs? It's in the file with the Baum stuff at the Ransom. Next time you feel like going, let me know. I haven't seen those MSs in quite some time and you've reawakened my interest in them. Only next time, I'll bring a first of the books with me for compare and contrast purposes. The librarians, unfortunately, will not allow xeroxes made; they fear breaking copyright or the agreement they made with the Baum Trust or something like that. Probably the latter. Jeremy/Kiex: Grandmother Steadman sounds like a grand old gal. How lucky for you all to have such a spirited woman still around. Bear: I'm 'fraid I'd be just as uncomfortable as you were if it'd been my friend who'd shoplifted. Actually, it once was, back in my teens. I'm still friendly with the person in question, but I refused to shop with her until I was sure she'd gotten over what she considered a game. Shaggy did, technically steal Toto, and it wasn't a "good thing" for him to do, but it wasn't as bad as if he were planning to steal the dog away from his home. There are shades of gray here...shades of "badness" if you will. Gordon: What if someone *did* get 'hold of the Love Magnet? Like, for instance, Ruggedo?! Sounds like a story should be written about this. Would he reform once he feels loved? What if a buncha somebodies got 'hold of it? How would it affect each of them as it came into his/her possession? Languidere? Conjo? Reera? Kabumpo? David L.:I think most people don't consider Glinda a fairy, but no one really knows what kind of being she is. Her sorcery seems to be learned, not at all inherent, but there's still something inherently magical about her. I once tried to piece together the clues in an article ("Glinda the What?), but ended up no more certain of things than when I started...except for a MOPPeT: Glinda seems to be some kind of "Ozma protector," not an "Oz protector." Subsequently, I've added the "inherently magical" bit to the MOPPeT. The Fairy Beaver King may have been using the term "fairy magic" in a loose, generalized sense. As for the Ozma discrepancy, I'm like Dave: I like Melody's theory pretty well. At least one of Ozma's parents must have been a fairy, right? Maybe both. Are we sure that Pastoria is a regular mortal? Are we sure he's her sire? "Father" doesn't always mean "sire." Dave:>While I've entertained for fun writing a short story in which the two Ozmas from different dimensionsmeet, I wouldn't put it in a "mainstream" Oz book...I think... :) While I wouldn't want IWOC to publish such a book, I might well want IWOC to publish a short story like that in OZIANA. Parameters in the Club's fiction magazine are probably flexible enough to stretch that far.... Not far enough to accept something like a Dan character in "our" universe, but certainly far enough to accept the possibility of a divergent universe's Ozma, with or without Dan. :) Dan would be quite reasonable in a different, non FF Oz. Long post. Sorry. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 00:45:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 Liz!: Forgot to say "Hi" to you. Sorry. I'm really glad you're a subscriber. For those of you who don't know Liz, she's a gorgeous (I mean a really gorgeous!) young woman with a lovely singing voice. She was a highlight of the show at Winkies this year. I guess I should mention that she's married...to a really tall guy.... --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:28:42, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest This will be my final response to the Shaggy/Toto ordeal.( I hope!) Bear: I agree with you that how you feel about someone, in friendship or in love, should never allow you to condone, accept, or ignore someone's bad behavior. No one should ever overlook someone's bad behavior just because they happen to like them. Ruth: I must come to the conclusion that you and I will always disagree on this subject. (and if we did not have disagreements, than this digest would not be very interesting, would it?) I still do not like Shaggy's behavior. Wether he was stealing, dog-napping, hiding, or unlawfully taking Toto, he was still wrong. Even if he did not have criminal intent, morally (now, I am speaking as a minister) he was out of line. I do not recall it being very obvious that he was going to return Toto. He did, however, serve the purpose of getting Toto to Oz, for I fear Dorothy may have left him home if she caught him barking at The Shaggy Man. So, we will continue to disagree, but I thank you, kindly, for your response. It has been a very good debate. One more comment on the Shaggy Man: This same man who would not go to Butterfield because someone owed him 15 cents, certainly changed his attitude when he discovered the jewelry that Ozma left him in his room. Robin: I have never been to Texas, but would love to someday. My wife has been, but I am not sure where. I will have to ask her and let you know. Keep up the good work on the Oziana. How does one submit projects for that, and what type of projects are you looking for? If Oz is in a parallel universe, How could Santa see the world when he traveled home in his wizard-made bubble? Thank you to all who responded to my questions on the Tinman's parts, and the powder of life. How come Scraps had to have brains put in her, and Jack and the sawhorse seem to be ok without having brains installed? Just a thought..... On to Polychrome, who is the most endearing character to me in the book (sorry, Gordon). Polychrome tells Dorothy she has no magical powers, but doesn't she use some in a later book, maybe "Tinman"? I may be mistaken. David Hulan: I have just started re-reading "Glass Cat", this time to my kids. I noticed that you have another book out. Where can I get it? Dave Hardenbrook: I also thank you for this great digest! I do not have any friends who read the books and this discussion is great. Have an Ozzy day, everyone! Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 11:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: OZ AUCTION (fwd) http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=vuk5597 Description: MGM's Original soundtrack recording of the 1939 movie: 'Wizard Of Oz'. This is the 1956 MGM issue with the classic cover. MGM E-3464. It is in beautiful condition for a 41 year old LP. The disk is in excellent (near-mint) condition. Cover is excellent condition also, very little wear..clear-sharp-colorful pictures of Dorothy, Tin Man, Scarecrow & Cowardly Lion (looks better than scan image!). Reverse side of the jacket has a date written on top margin edge. Buyer pays 3.00 shipping. Satisfaction Guarantee. thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 13:25:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 Whew! It's nice to be caught up again! Re New Jersey: Dick mentions the beautiful fall sights of southern NJ (away from the industrial parts)--I agree; I've lived there and liked it. (My parents hated it, but that's another issue entirely.) In the discussion of the 8-5 Digest, I say: Galactic clustering and the Big Bang theory: That happened before the Bang, I think. If someone can explain what in the world I mean, I'd appreciate it. (Obviously, the galaxies couldn't have clustered before the BB, as they didn't exist . . . Was I making an obscure pun?? Who knows, with me!) Robin: I, too, prefer Oz in Another Dimension. Otherwise, it implies that our universe went wrong sometime . . . Re MIMICS: I've gotta get a copy of it! Red Shift: The process by which the Communists lost power. Seriously, the shift to the red end of the spectrum as an object is observed while travelling at a very fast speed. Or something like that. Uncertainly, JEREMY STEADMAN (and kiex) KIEX: I told you not to do that!! Now I'm going to have to . . . what are you doing with that bucket of water? I can't be melted, you know; I'm not that kind of witch. Ahhhh! I'm all wet! Jeremy: I know you aren't going to melt, I just wanted to irritate you. Uh, oh--where'd you get that axe?! ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:30:35 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-08-97 Dick: The last Oz book I found for my collection was _Wonder City_, but I don't collect 1sts particularly (though I'll take one if it comes along at a price I'm willing to pay), so I don't know if other books might have been harder to find if I'd been looking for 1sts. Jeremy: The poll was the same one that Robin ran back in the spring (or maybe it was winter). I believe you already answered it. The question of whether the witches of Oz are human or not is an interesting one, and not one that I've seen discussed, though for all I know it was done to death in the _Bugle_ many years ago. Coo-ee-oh seems to have started out as an ordinary human and to have become a Krumbic witch, but whether a Krumbic witch is just one possible specialization for a witch, or whether the "witch" part is added to indicate magic-working but Krumbic witches are a different order of magic-worker from ordinary witches isn't clear. Mombi doesn't seem to be inhuman, nor does the GWN in _Wizard_, but the WWW does seem different from most humans, and Glinda seems rather more than human. We know that Kadj the Conjurer has a daughter who's a witch, but maybe conjurers are the males of the witch race. There are quite a few others besides the Wizard who are apparently human and work magic, though: Dr. Pipt, Ugu, Wumbo, Waddy, Wutz, Trickolas Om, probably others that don't pop into my mind offhand. They're not as powerful as Glinda or the WWW, but they mostly seem to be at least as powerful as Mombi, and probably more so. I don't think I agree with you that Thompson wrote more plotless (or weakly plotted) books than Baum. Baum had weak plots in _Dotwiz_, _Road_, and _Emerald City_; Thompson had weak ones in _Cowardly Lion_, _Giant Horse_, _Captain Salt_, and _Ozoplaning_, but as a proportion of books written that's fewer for her. And no Thompson book is as weakly plotted as _Road_. (Of course, these are just my assessments of plots. YMMV.) SF and fantasy may be different things, but they're almost invariably mixed in bookstores, which is what I was talking about, and the section is usually labeled "Science Fiction". Besides, there's a rather broad spectrum over which they shade into each other. Sure, the Oz books and Tolkien are clearly fantasy, and _Contact_ and _Rocheworld_ are clearly SF, but what are, say, Burroughs' Mars books? John Carter gets to Mars in a sort of astral body, which seems like fantasy, but once he's there everything that happens is given a "scientific" explanation - nothing supernatural. (An exception might be the Lotharians in _Thuvia_, but even that is described as mental power and not magic.) What are the Doyle/Macdonald "Mageworlds" books, which are dominated by characters dashing around in spaceships, but some of those characters can work magic? Etc. And another reason to mix them is that a great many of the leading writers in the two fields are the same people. David L.: The Books of Wonder reprints are definitely the best editions you can buy new of the Baum books (although the IWOC reprint of _Scarecrow_ is comparably nice - but isn't uniform with the BoW versions). They aren't probably all that close to the originals in some respects - they're thinner, for one thing - but that's because they're printed on a better grade of paper than R&B/R&L used, and I think they use a higher quality binding as well. The originals were not all that well produced as physical entities, so that only ones that have received kid-glove treatment almost from the beginning have survived in good shape. Which is why copies in good condition go for such high prices. Bear: I'm pretty sure that "Stephen" was the original spelling, and that "Steven" is a modern phonetic respelling, like "Marsha" for "Marcia" or "Shawn" for "Sean". But I'm not an authority on older English spelling (which was pretty much catch-as-catch-can anyhow until the late 18th or early 19th century). I know that the name of King Stephen of England is always spelled that way; he's the only historical English "Stephen/Steven" I can think of. Robin: I thought you said you couldn't find the downloads. To open them you have to first open a word processor and then use its "Open" command to open the download. (If you've tried this and it doesn't work, then I don't know what your problem is. But you can't open the downloads by double-clicking, or from within AOL.) I'm sorry that Kieran unsubscribed, but I've hunted around and can't find any cases where it looks to me as if he was insulted. (Maybe I didn't go far enough back.) If a person is that thin-skinned a lively (albeit friendly) group like the Digest is probably not for him. I don't think Oz is in a parallel world in the alternate-history sense - for one thing, the Oz universe seems to be physically different from ours - but parallel in the sense of occupying the same space as our world, but vibrating at a different frequency or something so that normally the two worlds are separate, but certain events can shift people and objects from one to the other. (Spontaneous shifts seem to always be in the direction of Earth to Oz, which I suppose implies that our world is at a higher magical potential than the Oz world. Shifting the other way requires an input of magical power.) I think Peter Hanff has the Research Table material, unless he sent it back to Andrea Yussman after the Munchkin Convention. Bill W.: I did a little more checking on Butterfield. The one in Missouri appears to be the largest one in the country, although it's a very small place. Still, it has about a dozen streets. There's one in Arkansas about halfway between Little Rock and Hot Springs that's also big enough to have two or three streets. The remaining two, in Minnesota and Michigan, are literally just "wide places in the road"; they just mark the intersection of two (minor) roads, and are a long way from a city of any size. Butterfield, MO, is down in the southwest corner of the state, and is closer to either Arkansas or Oklahoma than to Kansas. And it's so small that it's highly unlikely that any road from a point in Kansas (even if Uncle Henry's farm is in the southeast corner of the state) would be known as "the road to Butterfield". In fact, Butterfield isn't even on or near a road that leads toward Kansas; the nearest road that leads to another state is Missouri SR 37, and it goes south to Arkansas. I think we can rule out any actual community of Butterfield as having been in Baum's mind, unless it's one that hasn't survived to the present. Gordon: I agree that Shaggy is the most endearing character in _Road_. Overall I like Polychrome better, but her best appearances are in _Tik-Tok_ and (especially) _Tin Woodman_; in _Road_ she doesn't do much but look decorative. David L. again: The question of Ozma's origins are quite ambiguous, since different authors - and the same author in different books - made inconsistent statements about it. However, the earliest statements about her, which to my mind should take precedence, say that she was Pastoria's daughter. MOPPeT, which is the central theme of my entry in the Centennial Contest, is that Ozma was a member of Lurline's fairy band who chose to be born as a human, to Pastoria's queen, in order to complete Lurline's enchantment of Oz when she came to the throne. But when she became a human infant she lost all memories of her fairy life, including any memory of how to work magic. You can note that up until the time of _Tin Woodman_ she shows no sign of having any magical powers of her own; she can use magical devices, like the Magic Picture and Magic Belt, but so can Dorothy, so that's no sign of fairy powers. Suddenly, in _Tin Woodman_, Ozma is a powerful magic-worker in her own right. _Magic Carpet_, which takes place between _Lost Princess_ and _Tin Woodman_, explains this change. As for Glinda, all the evidence is that she isn't a fairy. In _Glinda_, for instance, Ozma makes a strong distinction between her own fairy magic and Glinda's sorcery. I don't think Glinda is a human, either; MOPPeT, again, is that she's sort of the _genius loci_ of Oz incarnate, whose guardianship of the land preceded Lurline's enchantment and is independent of it. Liz: Glad to see you're on the Digest! If you were around before it didn't register on me who you were, but I'd never had a chance to talk to you until this year's Winkie Conference. Garrett: >I have always liked maps so I decied to Make the Definitive Map >of Oz.So I would like anyone to send me new places from any published Oz >book.Send the name of the country or etc. and location in Oz try to be >exact.To me at perrys@mccc.edu Are you meaning places from non-FF books? The IWOC maps show all the places in the FF, as well as those from the IWOC-published books and stories by FF authors, _Little Wizard Stories_, and _Laughing Dragon_. If so, I can give you exact locations of places in _Glass Cat_; I wouldn't presume to do so for books by other authors. David L. yet again: The covers of _Silver Princess_ and _Ozoplaning_ are public domain and you can use them without permission. The others you cited are all still under copyright and would need the permission of the Neill estate. (The Martin estate for MGR.) The fact that BoW has reprinted them just means that BoW got permission, and is presumably paying them royalties. Dave: >A boy lip-synched for Shirley when she's Tip??? That's the dumbest thing >I've ever heard! No one saw any need for someone to lip-synch Mary Martin >in _Peter Pan_! _Peter Pan_ is a little different; that character has virtually always been played by an adult female on stage, so trying to give "him" a male voice would be non-traditional. And because in both play and musical form, PP has been on the boards almost continuously since its first production, there's a _lot_ of tradition. I don't know whether Tip was played by an adult female in _The Woggle-Bug_ (I believe so), but no stage production of _The Land of Oz_ has ever been a major hit, so there isn't much tradition one way or the other about it. I've been running on and on again - oh, well... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 21:09:22 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff All: In the past few weeks, I have inquired about Oz books that dealt with the Scoodlers and the Cowardly Lion. Thanks to your advice (and you know who you are, da-lings), I've purchased THE ROYAL BOOK OF OZ and Chris Dulabone's DAGMAR IN OZ. My next question deals with... THE FROGMAN from THE LOST PRINCESS. Any FF or NON-FF books out there in which he's featured prominently???? Just finished Reading QUEEN ANN OF OZ.. I liked it alot. The forest sequence with Jodie Buttons (Forest) was a very beautiful chapter. I saw a message recently regarding the destruction of Mombi. I have read the first 15 books now (14 Baum and the Royal Book by Thompson) besides a few non-ff. In what book does Mombi reappear? Currently, I am reading Rachel Cosgrove Payes's WICKED WITCH OF OZ. I checked that out of the library. I think it is a terrific book so far (I'm almost finished) excepting the Rubber Band chapter. What do you folks think of this book? Great Newsgroup. Lots of wonderful insights and tips that are really helping me appreciate Oz all the more. Thanks! Doug Silfen in San Diego ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:48:37 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Kiex: I know the feeling. FOur of my relatives have passed the century mark. Although they still function well, I know that the end must eventually come. CompuServe is $9.95 a month plus $2.94 per hour after some limit. Also, there are some places in CompuServe that are "Premium Services", such as ENS, that slaps an extra charge you. Nevertheless, IMHO, CompuServe can;t be beat, and I'm not saying that just because I worked there, nor will I slam them because they laid me off. The only real problem with CompuServe is the problem handling attachments. Kiex: It is true that not all of Baum's books really "contribute" to the series, either by explaining things or setting up things. IMHO, all of the Baum 14 are Historically Accurate. That is, they really "happened" in the context of the Ozzy timeline and I do not beleive that any of them are contradictory except in small ways. David Levitan: For quality of reprints (hardbound), Books of Wonder Reigns supreme. For the Oz books that they are re-issuing in hardcover, you really get your money's worth, and I'm sure a lot of people on the digest will back me up. Bear and any Stev(ph)ens out there: I knew a Steven who did not want people to write to him as "Stephen", although "Steve" was fine. I do not know of any significant difference. As far as I know, only two have left the digest after having their feelings hurt, although many others have left for other reasons. Robin: I think I know what you mean. You are suggesting that Oz may once have actually been part of our Universe, but broke away and formed it's own. BTW, assuming the theory of multilpe Universes, they would not actually be "in" another dimension, but only accessible "through" another dimension. Melody: As we saw in _Wonder City_, bad citizens are no longer destroyed. They are "reconditioned". Parts is Parts: The explanation of the Meat Glue now answers all questions. After the WIcked Witch of the East bought it, Ku-Klip got the glue and was able to create Chopfyt. Bill: As per my last post, the closest Butterfield is in Missouri, about 50 miles from the Border. Assuming this was the one, Uncle Henry's farm was near the southwest corner of Kansas. Other than that, I can remember no other evidence for the location of the farm. Butterfield, Missouri: Here, as best I can give them, are directions for reaching Butterfield, MO. 1. Butterfield is in the Southwest part of the state. 2. Butterfield lies 40 miles due East of the Missouri/Oklahoma border. The Misouri line borders Oklahoma and Kansas. Butterfield is a little south of Kansas. 3. Butterfield lies 17 miles due noth of the Arkansas Border. 4. Picture a square formed by Joplin, Springfield MO, Bentonville AR and Harrisonville AR. This square is bounded by: Joplin -> SPringfield : Interstate 44 Springfield -> Harrison : State Highway 65 Harrison -> Bentonville : State Highway 62 Bentonville -> Joplin : State Highway 71 Butterfield is nearly in the center of this square, just off route 37. Butterfield is VERY small, perhaps the size of one of Thompsons cookie-cutter kingdoms. The nearest city of consequence is Cassville. David: Currently on the HACC, there is a five year gap between LAND and PATCHWORK GIRL (1902 to 1907). This could work out just right, especially if you consider that the first batch of powder was some months old, plus assuming LAND took place early in 1902 and PATCHWORK GIRL late in 1907. Ruth: Not so. "Star Wars" is the holy trilogy :-) Kiex: I don't believe that we are really doing anything wrong. Some people are just more sensitive than others, and they perceive insult where there is none. Keep up the puns, shabby though they are :-) Red Shift (pinch-hitting for Dave :-) ) Have you ever noticed that a car or train makes a different sound when it approaches you as opposed to going away? This is because the sound waves are being "pushed" toward you" then they start to come at you from prograssively farther away. The same principle works with light. When an objcet is rushing toward you, the lightwaves crunched and a "blue shift" occurs. That is, the light from the object tends more towards the blue end of the spectrum. When an object is rushing away from you, the lightwaves get "stretched" and tend toward the red end of the spectrum. Based on this, astronomers can tell if objects are moving toward us or away, and at what speed. Dave, can you tell me if this is correct? David L: You have touched on one of the most intersting parts of Ozzy lore. Ozma's history is very murky, with many contradictory messages. I accept Melody's theory, with a few add-ons. As per the non-FF _Oz and the Three Witches_, I believe that Ozma was born to Pastoria and Ozette as a mortal baby, and slowly re-achieved her full fairyhood by the time she ascended the throne. This was all part of a grand plan to make Oz a fariyland. It was thrown a little out of kilter by Mombi's transformation of Ozma into Tip, but everything worked out in the end. Ozette, IMHO, may not been a full fariy, but she may have been of partial fairy descent. In this way, the passage "born of a long line of fairy queens" can still be true. The passage in _Mimics_, I blieve, refers to a king way back in Pastoria's line. I believe that Lurline had another fairy born to him soon after the enchantment in order to keep the line alive. Ozma came centuries later. IIMHO, there is ample evidence to show that Glinda is not a fairy. There is a conversation about this in _Glinda_, and she is always referred to as a sorceress. Also, she uses magic differently than Ozma and she does not "seem" like a fairy. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 05:18:02 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff 2 of 2 Does anyone know where I can obtain the second through the fifth of Eric Shanower's graphic novels? I do not belong to the IWOC, btw. Sincerely, Doug Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:15:39 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest David: I think your explanation of the origins of "the road to Butterfield" is ingenious and convincing. FWIW, it turns out that there are a numer of Butterfields around: in addition to the one in Missouri, there is a Butterfield, Michigan, northwest of Grand Rapids; a Butterfield, Minnesota, between the Twin Cities and Sioux Falls; a Butterfield, Oregon, on the coast south of Astoria; and a Butterfield, Arkansas, near Hot Springs. In light of the geographical confusion at the beginning of _Road_, it's amusing that there are in fact so many roads to Butterfield. On Kieran's departure: It was certainly not my intention to insult her or to be mean to her when I questioned whether or not she had read all the non-Oz Baum. When it became clear that she was upset, I sent her a personal e-mail in which I apologized for hurting her feelings and gave her a number of tips for finding inexpensive older editions of the Oz books to replenish her stolen collection. But apparently apologies and other signs of good will, from me and others (Craig, David), were not enough. I firmly believe that we need to be considerate of each other's feelings on the Digest. On the other hand, I don't think that a discussion group like this should turn into the cyberspace equivalent of a group hug. With so many diverse interests and perspectives driving our shared love of Oz, there are bound to be disagreements, and in general I believe these disagreements are fruitful. When I post an idea, I am prepared to see it challenged, corrected, or even rejected outright. An idea that isn't open to being tested isn't worth expressing. Of course we can all think of examples of discussions on the Digest that have generated an uncomfortable level of heat, and there is something about electronic communications, that strange mixture of intimacy and distance, that makes it all too easy to say something that can lead to wounded feelings. Robin and I were discussing this a couple of months ago, and we agreed that it would be helpful if e-mail software had a built-in delay of at least an hour before you could hit the Send button. But just as it's important to be continually mindful of what you are saying or implying, it's equally important not to be too thin-skinned or too quick to read hostility into other people's comments. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 97 14:59:29 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "I'VE GOT A LITTLE LIST": Jim Vander Noot wrote: >I used to be able to open the message header and see the distribution list. >Now it appears to be from and to YOU and only contains your e-mail address. >Perhaps you could add an item about how to obtain an e-mail list of digest >subscribers. I'm not quite sure how to handle this...What do you all think? Should I make the list of Digest recipients available to all, or is that a violation of the members' privacy? BTW, for those who are interested, our Digest membership just broke the 150 mark! :) THE BABY BANG THEORY: Jeremy wrote: >In the discussion of the 8-5 Digest, I say: >Galactic clustering and the Big Bang theory: >That happened before the Bang, I think. >If someone can explain what in the world I mean, I'd appreciate it. It means that you don't accept (as neither do I) that the "Big Bang" was in fact the creation of the universe and not, cosmically speaking, merely a "baby bang"... :) RED SHIFTS/DOPPLER EFFECT: Tyler, your explaination for Red Shift was correct...Approaching objects are bluer, and receeding ones are red. Using the car/train sound parallel, red is analogous to low pitch and blue to high pitch (but an object has to be going much faster than a train before color shifts become noticable). Almost all Galaxies beyond our "Local Group" are red-shifted, implying that they are all moving away from us, at least up to our cosmic "horizon". There are other theories besides the Doppler Effect to explain red shifts (such as Fred Hoyle's "tired light" hypothesis) but they don't seem to work very well... Jellia: What are you talking about, Dave?! Red/Blue shifts in galaxies are *easily* explained! The blue galaxies are in Munchkin Country and the red galaxies are in Quadling Country! THE DIGEST: Bob C. wrote: >Dave Hardenbrook: I also thank you for this great digest! I do not >have any friends who read the books and this discussion is great. Thanks for the thanks. :) I too had no Ozzy friends (indeed, I was at the receiving end of a lot of snide remarks about my love of Oz) before I discovered the Internet, and now I have *many* Ozzy friends! But Nate Barlow deserves credit for starting "The Ozian Times", the Ozzy Digest's ancestor and the means by which I started making connections with other Ozites on the 'Net! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 11, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 17:57:25 -0400 (EDT) From: OzBucket@aol.com Subject: Oz Press Release Even though I haven't read a Digest in several months, I want the Digest members to know that our webpage has been greatly updated. LOTS of colorful new pictures have been added. They are all illustrations from the various books, but have been beautifully colorized for use on the webpage (Although most of them have color covers, none of the books have interior color unless noted otherwise). I am writing this on Sunday night. At the moment, there are a few broken links that our webmaster (VegOut@aol.com) is about to fix. By the time you see this, it should be perfect. If you find any errors or broken links, please notify me immediately at OzBucket@aol.com. Thank you very, very much. http://members.aol.com/OzBucket/webpage/home.htm ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:37:11 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 Atticus, > BOB SPARK: > >Atticus, > > I quote from the Sampler Request put out by email daily by L.M. > >Boyd: > >> English is the only language that capitalizes the > >> personal pronoun "I." > > and i quote from emerson: "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little > minds." i capitalize in my formal writing. i don't feel i have to impress > anyone with conventional capitalization on the digest. ;) as a matter of > fact, i was copy editor of my high school newspaper for three years, and my > grammar, punctuation, etc. is well-nigh impeccable when i so choose. > Damn! I seem to have struck a nerve. It was certainly not my intention of doing so, I just thought the quote an interesting aside. For the life of me I can't figure out why I've offended you, but if I truly have I apologize. I have no interest in making judgements on your usage. Having got that out of the way, I want to thank you for your observations on the Baum manuscripts. They were quite interesting. Ted, > I found "Return to Oz" kind of strange. First of all, I think it went > to great lengths to establish the Oz characters in Kansas. Second, AUNT > EM TAKING DOROTHY TO A MENTAL INSTITUTION?! That just doesn't strike me > as Ozzy. Of course I haven't seen the film in a while so I may find it > different if I view it in my old age. This was discussed a little bit earlier. There seem to be opposing camps of opinion on "Return to Oz". I and some of the others are quite fond of it, others are not. One of the things that those of my opinion seem to agree on, however, is the disbelief that Auntie Em would do such a thing. Speaking of two camps, I am finding the discussion about Shaggy interesting. Some of us enjoy him for what he is, others want to condemn him for moral turpitude. Guess they were just toilet trained too early :-). Dave Hardenbrook, About the email list of subscribers, > I'm not quite sure how to handle this...What do you all think? Should > I make the list of Digest recipients available to all, or is that a > violation of the members' privacy? I can't see how those of us who contribute could have any objection. Their addresses are, after all, included with their messages. The addresses of the rest of the 150 or so subscribers seem to me to be another matter. I wouldn't think releasing their addresses without their permission would be a good idea. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:47:11 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 Perhaps a last word on the location of "Butterfield" (?): I believe Baum liked the sound of names that he may have heard somewhere, so I don't know if Butterfield would have to represent an actual city or town. In any event, _Road_ was written circa 1908 and Baum had already visited California 4 times--so I believe Baum may have had in mind the "Butterfield Stage Route" which was the principal route into San Diego/Coronado from the east at that time. BOW reprints: I purchased _Scarecrow_ today and it is, indeed, a fine volume. I notice that the jackets are now uniform in appearance. I wonder if BOW will sell jackets to the earlier books to those of us who might want them? Beleated response to Bear's: "Ozma a fictional character? Next you'll be saying Santa Claus isn't real!" (or words to that effect) Oh, no! I may have said Ozma is a fictional character, but I never said she wasn't real!! ;) Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:27:17 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: ozzy digest Doug Silfen: Member of the club or not you can buy 1-4 from the club, info is on the website. I obtained another copy of 5 (mine was lost when I moved from my parents house a couple of years ago) from a vendor at MunchCon, Herm might know too, but I will ask Eric when I talk to him. 5 is the sweetest story, it is my favorite of his work, though I am not impartial.. Liz Schaible ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:23:14 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Ozzy Digest Hi Everyone! I would like to add my voice to Jim's question about a list of Digest subscibers. It was nice to be able to see who received it and get personal addresses when the forwarding list was at the heading of the Digest. That was very helpful for me in finding friends I already knew when I first obtained internet service. I know the library thing is mostly talked out, but being a library assistant in all my spare time while at SF State I wanted to say a little something. I was able to read many first editions of Thompson, and even Snow and Neill books as a girl at the main library in San Jose, California. If not first editions, there were often copies made available to me by librarians through other sources, though the single most important factor in my introduction to the books was the Del Rey publishing. Working in a library, I attempt to introduce people younger than myself to the books fairly often, but I usually receive the response: "I just wanted to know where the Goosebumps are!" Sad but true... At MunchCon last weekend I was surprised to learn that some who come to conventions at which they are new (whether new to the club or that convention) feel unwelcome. Though everyone may not be involved in the club, I would be pleased to hear anyone else's experiences in this matter. As a first timer at MunchCon this year (and a visiting Winkie) I felt extremely comfortable and accepted and had a wonderful time. David Maxine gave a fascinating presentation about the music of the early Oz musicals which I wish everyone could have seen/heard. ROBIN** Hi Robin! I am so glad to hear from you! For anyone who missed Winkie's Robin did a wonderful job chairing this year, and the programs ran smoothly. Robin also has a beautiful singing voice. DAVE HULAN** How are you Dave? I don't know why I didn't have the pleasure of talking to you before this year at Winkie's. What a shame, but we can keep in touch now. I love to read all of your insights. About the Oz dimesion: I agree with Kiex and Robin that Oz is in another dimension. I am highly skeptical about the theory that Oz is on another planet, and prefer to think of it as a separate dimension. TYLER*** Can you explain the difference between IN another dimension and ACCESSIBLE through another dimension? About people un-subscribing and attacking each other: I think one thing that makes communicating this way difficult is that comments are easily misconstrued when people are not talking face to face. Technology is a blessing and a curse and it is hard to adjust. Just a thought, sorry for the longwindedness. Liz Schaible, schaible@sj.bigger.net ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 01:18:54 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Kiex and the big green: Even though Baum eventually intended that there be no money in Oz, he slipped at times, and had things that were close enough for all practical purposes, such as in _Patchwork Girl_, when Dorothy promised to make reparations for using all of the Lazy Quadling's (and wife's) stuff to make a raft. Kiex and Aging: Umm, (ahem) it was Thompson who came up with the "age as you wish" idea, while Baum had it that all aging stopped, period, when Lurline enchanted the Land. Discussion has abounded on this facet of Ozzy life on the digest. There is ample evidence to suggest that there was quite a lot of aging before Ozma took the throne,m and even some after it. There are a numer of explanations. IMHO, the most likely one is that Lurline originally intended to stop all aging, then realized her mistake and changed the rules. This change, and the enchantment itself, took place slowly over a number of years, and was especially mixed up during the time of Ozma's enchantment. There are too many contradictory stories to state positively that there is only one aging scheme that has been rigidly ahdered to in Oz since the beginning of time, or even the beginning of Lurline's enchantment. Personally, I believe that the current status is age-as-you-wish, but in the past, there were periods of slow aging and no aging. Ted: I'm gonna gripe and moan here, so hang on! Disney claimed that _Return to Oz_ would not be a clone of the MGM movie, that it would be its own creation. Then, they went to the ends of the earth to make sure that it was as much like the MGM movie as it could possibly get, even to the extent of paying MGM royalties to use the Ruby Slippers when they could have used the Silver Shoes for free. The whole theme of establishing the "fact" that the Oz characters were "really" from Kansas all along, and the Mental Institution (to insure that Oz is really a dream or psycho-induced hallucination) was all part of a conscious desire to make their movie a carbon-copy of the MGM movie. That was their first, last and only goal. They will deny it up and down the pike, but that is just what they did, and the movie was poorer because of it. That ain;t goood grammur: I try to spell correctly and use proper punctuation Ann So Forth, but I don't worry too much if mistakes get made, at least on the Digest. Atticus: Your report on the manuscripts was quite interesting. I'm going to have to disagree with the esteemed Ralph Waldo Emerson and say that, IMHO, it is INCONSISTENCY which is the hobgoblin of little minds. Shaggy and Toto: Much as I have wanted to steer clear of this debacle, I must plead with those involved. It's really time to put this one to rest. Bob C: It may not be possible for Santa to see this world when he traveled in his bubble, but it becomes very possible if you postulate that the Ozzy "Universe" is really an extra-dimenesional pocket that is closely associated with Earth. In other words, it is a separate Universe, but it is very small, and it is the magical mirror-image of Earth. From Oz, and using magic, Santa could see our world as a ghostly reflection. Also, from _The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_, we know that Santa lives in the Laughing Valley of HoHaHo, which is just the other side of the Deadly Desert. In fact, the only person who was sent by a bubble to our world was Button-Bright, and Santa put that on magical autopilot so neither he nor Button-Bright needed to see. People have often considered Jack's seeds to be brains. Also, the sawhorse got some sawdust form the Wizard. Besides, Scraps comes off as far more intelligent than either Jack or the Sawhorse. Polychrome tells Dorothy that she has no powers in _Road_, but uses some years later in _Tin WOodman_. Perpaps, like Ozma, she has taken the time to learn some basic magic just in case she gets trapped on the ground again. Doug and Lori: Sorry to bear this news, but as far as I can remember, the Frogman simply drops out of sight after _Lost Princess_. As you know, he makes a cameo in _Magic_ for Ozma's birthday party, but that is the last we hear from him. At least, in the standard Oz series. He appears in an Oz book by the infamous March Laumer, and we all know what that means :-) ********** SPOILER FOR LOST KING OF OZ ***** Mombi makes her return in this, book 19 of the FF. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** BOW should still sell most if not all of Eric Shanowers books. My favorite one of these is his fift, _THe Blue WItch of Oz_. ALl of them are excellent, though. Give them a call at 1-800-835-4315 Dave: My guess is that at least some of the lurkers out there would rather not be known. It would be quite a lot of effort to determine which ones should or should not be made public.IMHO, the best answer is if someone wants a list of names, he or she can ask each of us to privately e-mail them. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:27:31 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 8-10-97 Re: Kieran Miller: I also e-mailed him/her about un-subscribing, indicating that I had gone back over previous issues and found nothing insulting in any posting, only astonishment that he/she had FOUND, much less READ, all of Baum's non-Oz works. His/her reply was that several private e-mails had called him/her a liar and an exaggerator, and that earlier posts, weeks/months ago were negative. I thought he/she was a rather recent subscriber? Well, perhaps his/her decision was all for the best. Jim V: For what purpose do you want the list of Digest subscribers? Just asking. I have no problem with it. Atticus: Thanks for the Baum manuscript report. Very interesting. Let's hear more! Jeremy/Kiex: er..that was Northwestern NJ for the Fall folliage. Southern NJ?....well, no. :-) Doug: Yeah, I liked Rachel Payes' Wicked Witch too. Much better, IMHO, than her Hidden Valley of Oz. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:11:48 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - The Red Shift & Cleanliness It does appear that everything in the observable universe, not gravitationally bound to the area, is moving away from us. The uniform expansion of the universe -- more space coming into being everywhere -- is the generally accepted reason for this. An alternative explanation is that our deodorant soaps are not as effective as we would like to think. Earl Abbe (going back to the shower to scrub again.) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:27:21 -0600 From: Tim Allison Subject: Oz Fest Well, I went to the Oz Fest in Chicago again this year. Not quite as hot, thank goodness. Once again I noticed the irony that it is no longer in Oz Park, so many attendees no longer see the Tin Woodman statue. If you have children, or can borrow some, I recommend bringing them to the fest. There are some specifically Ozzy things, such as a costume parade, Toto-lookalike contest, playground cutouts and a big sculpture of the Wicked Witch of the West. There are also some unusual rides, games, and activities that seem to have strayed from the Renaissance Faire, so I think they'd have a great time. For adults, though, there's less Oz content than last year, and that wasn't much. It's a perfectly good way to spend a summer day, especially since it's walking distance to the beach and has some unusual food items. It's just not very Ozzy. Carol Mitchell ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 08:49:10 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-04-97 sahutchi@cord.iupui.edu wrote: >Dave: Religious people who think that witches worship satan are ignorant. >I have spoken with witches on the internet, and they worship nature: >they're pagan, not satanist, and who is to say Baum's witches are of the >wiccan religion? It is a pretty generic term. The word is related to "wise", and has had any number of meanings in its own right, plus more that have been attached when it has been used as an imperfect translation of various foreign words. The laughable "Wicca" crew, whose "ancient religion" is in fact no older than this century, have no particular right to claim it for their own exclusive use. If they wish to insist on calling themselves "witches", no-one can stop them, but if I decide to paint myself blue and worship chipmunks, no-one can stop me from calling myself "Methodist"; notwithstanding, it would still be in error to say "Methodists paint themselves blue and worship chipmunks." >What I don't like about communism is that it forces people to give up what >they have worked for to those who have done little or nothing. Aristotle, Moses, and Thomas Aquinas would all describe capitalism in more or less the same way. >The theories I understand, but they don't seem, grounded >in the real world. Someone tried to explain expansion and contraction of >the universe to me using a phone cord, but could not explain evidence to >suggest this was meant anything. Forget the anologies. That the universe is expanding is an observed fact. There are three possibilities: 1) The universe is infinitely large and infinitely old, and something happens to keep it filled with matter -- i.e., from time to time, more matter is created out of nothing. This is the "steady-state" theory, which was abandoned back in the 60's by its own originators when the discovery of quasars showed conclusively that the universe used to be different from the way it is now. 2) The universe is finite, and has expanded from a single point. This is the classic "big-bang" theory. 3) The universe is finite, and alternates between expanding and contracting, with what amounts two a new "big bang" every so many billion years. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:24:22, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave Hardenbrooke: Concerning posting a list of digest members, I am more curious as to how many and where they are from than their actual names. How many different states are included on the list? What about countries? Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:00:34 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: Probably most of the time witches aren't as witches are. That's to say, the self-proclaimed pagan witches (and even the self proclaimed satanist witches) aren't the same as the witches of folklore and fiction -- they don't have the powers (or, for those of you who think they have some powers, they don't have anything like the extent of the powers) of the witches of f&f. The conspiracy of secret satanist witches running around having group murder orgies feared by some people seems to be entirely mythical. (Robert Holmes' book "In the Name of Satan" is a useful discussion of this myth.) David Levitan: The BoW reprints of the Oz books are the best. I haven't compared their "Scarecrow" to the IWOZ' "Scarecrow," which I think so far is the only case where BoW and the Club have overlapped in reprinting Oz books, and perhaps they are equally good. But the reprint quality of the BoW reprints is much higher than the Dover trade-paperbacks (and, of course, vastly higher than the Ballantine mass-market paperbacks). Bear: Stephen is from the Greek stephanos, meaning wreathed. The Greek ph originally represented a p-plus-h sound (as in English cap- hook), and the Latin spelling (which became the English spelling) reflects that pronunciation. In classical times, the phi had become pronounced as f, and Latin pronunciation changed to reflect that, too. However, English sometimes voices unvoiced consonants in the middles of words, and the spelling Steven represents the usual English pronunciation of the name. // I don't think your question about the morality of shoplifters applies to questions about Shaggy. As I've argued previously, Shaggy obviously intended to return Toto (or, rather, to release him to return himself). Tyler Jones and Robin Olderman: David Bratman, a Tolkien fan who takes part in Once upon a Time (amateur press association on the subject of children's fantasy literature) had a report in his "Out of the Woods" #34 in the August OuaT on attending this year's Winkiecon. He was interested to note that Oz fans aren't particularly interested in the versions of Farmer and Ryman, commenting, "there is much more interest in respectful Oz pastiches by the members themselves. I picked up a fanzine which, however, included among its offerings a corrosive satire of the repetitive Oz plots. The editor's cheerful bonhomie was about as far removed from this as possible, and wrote of the author merely that 'he seems to have read quite a lot of Oz books'." Evidently he enjoyed the corrosive satire of "A Generic Oz Story." Me, too. (If anyone in this audience might be interested in OuaT -- member contributions usually consist of a page or a few pages, all of them stapled together by the central mailer and mailed out bimonthly -- you could drop a note to Laura Krentz, lkrentz@visi.com and ask for a sample copy.) Earl Abbe: I made a day-trip out of it after all and went to Aberdeen on Saturday. Not really the best idea, as it was 12 hours of driving time from Mpls and back, with only a couple of hours at the festival in between, but it was a pretty drive, and I did have a nice time chatting with Steve Teller and meeting Nancy Tystad Koupal and Bea Premack and Don Artz and some of the others there and hearing a couple of the talks. I got copies of the "Oz in Aberdeen" catalog and the "A Tour of L. Frank Baum's Aberdeen" pamphlet (although I didn't buy the reprint of some of the "Mother Goose in Prose" stories, as I have the book), and was very pleased with them both. I think another year I'd like to go back, armed with both the catalog and the pamphlet, and make a proper weekend trip out of it, and have some time to spend walking around town looking at the places discussed in the pamphlet (it includes a map) and looking at some of the library holdings, and so on. Scott Hutchins: Interlibrary Loan could probably find you a copy of Dickinson's "Flight of Dragons" (and, for that matter, Dickson's "Dragon and the George") to read. Susan Perryman: From your posting it sounds as if you aren't aware of the Haff & Martin Oz map the IWOC published. Rather than going to the work of making a new map, you'd probably find it a good idea to get that one. It covers the Oz books up through the two RPT books and the one McGraw book the Club published (I don't think it has been revised to include Martin's "Ozmapolitan of Oz," Cosgrove Payes' "Wicked Witch," or the Neill/Shanower "Runaway"). The gazeteer I included in the "Who's Who in Oz Appendix" (James Haff's listing of which characters appeared in which Oz books, including the characters not listed by Snow, to which I added paragraphs describing the characters not listed by Snow and a gazetter of places and which books they're in), up through "Wicked Witch" (but not "Runaway," although I may cover that if I ever get around to doing something similar for the borderlands of Oz books) -- I also included coverage of "Laughing Dragon" "Little Wizard Stories," "Queer Visitors," and some other short Baum, Denslow, and Thompson items. The WWOApp is available from me for $5/copy (2809 Drew Ave S, Mpls MN 55416). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:53:36 -0400 From: Mark K DeJohn Subject: Ozzy Digest, Message text written by "Dave L. Hardenbrook" >< From: Barbara DeJohn Hello everyone and welcome to the newcomers !!! I recently purchased the silent movie collection of Baums. I started watching The Patchwork Girl and haven't been able to bring myself to finish it. Tip is played by a woman or at least someone with hips. The first part seemed to be pretty true to the book except for some added characters like Margolottes daughter and boyfriend. Are the other movies any better? I have been lending a young neighbor my Oz books. She said her favorite is Ozma which is mine and many of ours as well. She reminds me of myself at that age and doesn't say anything bad about any of the Oz books. I wish I had a neighbor to lend them to me once upon a time. Keiran- He or She? T-shirts- I had taken the design to one place that was unable to make them and I finally got it back so I will keep trying. Barbara DeJohn 103330@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 15:23:25 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things KIERAN MILLER: For those who were wondering, he's a "he". ADDRESS LIST: Thanks for the advice, everyone...I am now inclined for the sake of our members' right to privacy to not release the address list for the Digest publically... THE FROGMAN: Tyler wrote: >Sorry to bear this news, but as far as I can remember, the Frogman simply >drops out of sight after _Lost Princess_. As you know, he makes a cameo in >_Magic_ for Ozma's birthday party, but that is the last we hear from him. The Frogman is in _Glinda_...Indeed, his presence was the main stumbling block to my theory that the events in _Glinda_ in fact took place prior to _Lost Princess_...Now I believe -- and this will be reflected in my new version of "The History of Oz" on my web page -- that _Glinda_ took place after _LP_ but still before her new maturity and magical prowess in _Tin Woodman_. MORE C-OZ-MOLOGY: John K. wrote: >That the universe is expanding is an observed fact. That the galaxies are moving away from each other as far as we can see is an observed fact. >1) ... This is the "steady-state" theory, >which was abandoned back in the 60's by its own originators... Not *all* of them...Last time I checked Hoyle is still trying to find new ways to "save" the Steady-State idea, like his "tired light" idea and "Quasi-Steady-State" and other things... >2) The universe is finite, and has expanded from a single point. This >is the classic "big-bang" theory. >3) The universe is finite, and alternates between expanding and >contracting, with what amounts two a new "big bang" every so many >billion years. 4) The universe is infinite and the Big Bang itself was also infinite, as weird as that sounds. 5) The universe is infinite, there was no big bang, and the Hubble expansion is a "local" phenomenon... BEYOND MGM: _The Young Philadelphians_ was on cable today...You know Billie Burke is in it (and practically steals the show!)...It made me want to ask: What are Digest members' favorite movies featuring someone from the MGM Oz? Here are mine: Judy Garland: _A Star Is Born_, _A Child Is Waiting_, _I Could Go on Singing_ Ray Bolger: _Sweethearts_ Margaret Hamilton: _State of the Union_, _Rosie!_ Frank Morgan: _The Good Fairy_, _The Shop Around the Corner_ Billie Burke: _The Young Philadelphians_, _The Man Who Came to Dinner_ Jack Haley and Bert Lahr: ??? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 12, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:21:34 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jeremy Steadman: On "Baum's 'age-as-you-wish' idea of Oz aging" -- I think there's a pair of mistakes there. One is the specific question, which was about aging outside Oz in the borderland countries, and I don't think Baum or his successors say anything about it directly, although some of the references seem to imply aging and death. The other is that Baum seems to say in "Tin Woodman" that there is no aging in Oz (babies are stuck with being babies forever), although it doesn't say so flat out. It was Thompson who modified that to age-as-you-wish. Atticus: thanks for the comments on the mss. Interesting. The stationery with the Oz Toy Company Woozy -- that's the Woozy Bill Stillman used on a recent "Baum Bugle" cover, isn't it? I wonder if the absence of scratch-outs might mean that the mss. were second-drafts, rather than firsts. David Hulan: Tip/Ozma was played by Blanche Deyo in the stageplay of "The Wogglebug." The "Bugle" has run a couple of photos from the show, and my impression is that you're right in thinking she was an adult actress, although young enough to look plausible playing a youngster. Bear and Robert Collinge: Yes, the narrative makes it pretty clear what Shaggy's intentions are. As I said before, it is clear that he has no desire to keep Toto for himself, and it is clear that his character is such that he would not kill the dog or hold him for ransom. He might possibly try to sell him in the next town (although it's unlikely, in terms of his overall character), but it's an unlikely outcome even without considering his overall character, because of the danger that someone would spot the dog as Dorothy's if he tried to sell him. There are really only four possible outcomes: keep the dog, kill the dog, exchange the dog for something of value, or let the dog go. The first three are unlikely, so it is almost certainly the fourth. Possibly someone might want to quibble with possibilities of letting the dog go but so far from home as to have trouble finding the way back: that's a modified form of killing the dog, and although it's a tad less unlikely than the other options (considering Shaggy's general carelessness), it is still unlikely (considering his general kindliness). If you want to argue that he really is that careless, I suppose it's a possibility, but I don't think you'll get general agreement. Robert Collinge: Discrepancy between having Polychrome say she doesn't know magic in "Road" and being able to work small spells in "Tin Man" -- possibly she thought those spells are so minor as not to count as magic, or possibly in the interval she decided it would be a good idea to learn a little magic. I recall seeing it suggested somewhere that she might not be the same Polychrome, that perhaps all of the daughters of the rainbow are named Polychrome, but this possibility (although ingenious) doesn't strike me as likely. Doug Silfen: The Frogman has a brief role in "Glinda" and is mentioned in "Magic" and "Mimics." Mombi has an important role in the past events of "Giant Horse," and a painting of her in "Lucky Bucky" comes to life and has a fairly sizable role. She gets mentions in some of the later Oz books, too, in "Hungry Tiger," "Jack Pumpkinhead," "Ozoplaning," "Mimics," "Hidden Valley," and "Wicked Witch." Incidentally, Ethel Merman does her voice in the animated film that stars Liza Minelli as Dorothy ("Journey back to Oz" is the title, I think). Kieran comments: I notice that some of us have been assuming that this is a man's name, and some that it's a woman's. Out of curiosity -- does anyone know what language this name comes from and what it means (assuming it's not an abstract invention)? Dave Hardenbrook: No one seems to have worried about the times the whole list was part of the heading, so it doesn't look as if we object to knowing each other's e-mail addresses. Perhaps (if it isn't an unreasonable amount of extra work) you could set up the list as something people could request from you if they're interested and include the information that it's available in your FAQ? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 Scott H.: You say, I think it was in Annotated Wizard that it is mentioned that Baum said the farm was near Topeka. Baum said the farm (Dorothy's) was near Omaha, as I recall. Directions in Oz: I'd almost have thought Baum grew up in NYC, where as the song tells us, going to the east and west sides will take one all around the town :-). Atticus: No problem here--I like long posts (as is somewhat obvious, looking at my own...) Bear: You say, Ruth - Milton - Great! I've noticed that Jeremy has a pension for plays on words. I wonder if he will be able to retire on it. :) The greatest playwrights never retire. Craig: I see. Robin: Grandma is, alas, drawing to the close of her successful 102-year career in life. But cheerful as ever, she's approaching it with objectivity and pride. Which is how it should be. Glinda an "Ozma protector"? What was she before Ozma was rediscovered? An Ozma-searcher, I suppose--no, I think she's an Oz-protector, along with the ill-fated GWN. Shaggy: I guess his function in ROAD was to get Toto to Oz . . . David Hulan: You say "Mombi doesn't seem to be inhuman". I beg to differ! Glinda, on the other hand, seems ... well, not a fairy, at any rate. Butterfield: The place where all the cows got loose. Digest membership: Wow! I had no idea . . . Way to go, Dave--and thanks (for making it all possible)! Big Bang, Baby Bang: Hey, it's all in the family here. To all my Ozzy family, a fond farewell--until next time, Jeremy AND KIEX -------------------------- Jeremy: Would you quit capitalizing your name--people might think you have an ego problem. KIEX: But we all have ego problems--but only the best of us have superego problems! Jeremy: It all depends on whether we eat waffles for breakfast, and how conscience-ously. KIEX: I eat Pan cakes. Jeremy: Whatever. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:01:31 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 SCOTT H.: >Robin: I wish people would stop interpreting my observations as attacks. >I don't know why you (not to mention Katherine) seem to interpret things >I write in my e-mails this way. from my own personal observation, you have a tendency to be somewhat careless with your words, to the point of sometimes seeming somewhat... irreverent. and i think it's far more feasible that YOU can be a little more careful rather than EVERYONE ELSE not interpreting your words that way. ;) BEAR: >This reminds me that some state (I forget which) passed a law that required >psychologists to wear a tall pointed hat, with stars and moons on it, when >testifying in court. I thought that was great! to me that seems like an idiotic law ridiculing a profession which receives far too much flak to begin with. i think people who don't understand psychology try to knock it. therapy saved my life as well as those of numerous others. mental health professionals deserve respect, not this kind of small-minded, judicially-imposed crap. ROBIN: >Atty: Did you note the stuff from Michael Patrick Hearn about those MSs? i did; his notes dealt with the _mary louise_ fragments on the back pages of the manuscript. DOUG SILFEN: >Currently, I am reading Rachel Cosgrove Payes's WICKED WITCH OF OZ. >I checked that out of the library. I think it is a terrific book >so far (I'm almost finished) excepting the Rubber Band chapter. >What do you folks think of this book? at the risk of being thrown out of the oz club, i must disagree with you. the main problem i have with _wicked witch_ is that i feel it speaks down to children. in many spots it is overly simplistic, extremely wordy and repetitive. for example: "Singra peered into her cupboards, looking for a place to hide the cheese. 'Maybe it will be safe in the sugar bowl.' She took off the lid. There was a little sugar in the bowl. Singra got a cup from a hook and poured the sugar from the bowl into the cup. Then she set the sugar bowl on the table and picked up the piece of cheese. The cheese, however, would not fit into the bowl. She turned it upside down, but still it would not fit. Then she turned the cheese on its side, with no success. The piece of green cheese was too large for the sugar bowl." (192) See Singra. See Singra open the sugar bowl. See Singra try to put the cheese in the sugar bowl. The cheese will not fit in the sugar bowl. The cheese is too big to put in the sugar bowl. SHEESH! for full effect, let's contrast that _wicked witch_ passage with one from _rinkitink_. baum did not speak down to children: "But Glinda pointed out that any person who incurred the enmity of a wicked magician was liable to suffer a similar fate, and assured him that his misfortune would make him better beloved by his subjects when he returned to them freed from his dire enchantment." (Ch. 22) that said, i will add that eric shanower's illustrations make _wicked witch_ well worth buying. --atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:50:35 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Minister Bob - Please don't place any limits on your discourse. It is valuable to have someone who can speak consistently "ex cathedra." This period at the end of the century that we are living through will not be known for it's high moral tone. That makes it important, IMO, to discuss moral issues as they arise in our reading and world. Particularly, as many of us value Oz as a place where goodness and kindness dominate. I will continue to think lapses, such as Shaggy's are important to examine. Hopefully, such efforts will help to get the pendulum swinging in the opposite direction. Tyler >The only real problem with CompuServe is the problem handling attachments. I have to ask. What does this mean? I'll handle my own attachments. I don't need Compuserve to do it for me. :) Gordon: Dittoes! :) Dave - Make it easy on yourself. State that anyone not wanting their email address provided should notify you in the next seven days. And..... what is the date of the next BCF? Aren't we glad that all of those galaxies are heading away from us! The meteors in the vicinity are bad enough! :) Ducking, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:57:31 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-97 BOB SPARK: > Damn! I seem to have struck a nerve. It was certainly not my >intention of doing so, I just thought the quote an interesting aside. >For the life of me I can't figure out why I've offended you, but if I >truly have I apologize. I have no interest in making judgements on your >usage. rest easy, i was not offended, just cynically amused. ;) > Having got that out of the way, I want to thank you for your >observations on the Baum manuscripts. They were quite interesting. you're quite welcome. TYLER: >Atticus: >Your report on the manuscripts was quite interesting. I'm going to have to >disagree with the esteemed Ralph Waldo Emerson and say that, IMHO, it is >INCONSISTENCY which is the hobgoblin of little minds. hmmm, gotta disagree. recall he said a FOOLISH consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. what you're saying is that ANY inconsistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. if so, baum himself must have had a little mind (e.g. east-west, magic belt usage, spelling of "pyrzqxgl" in his manuscript, etc.). emerson's previously stated philosophy does in fact mean that some consistencies are NOT foolish. so THERE. let's just ignore for now the fact that i think emerson was largely a hypocritical, self-important, pompous so-and-so. but hey, even baum quoted from him in _queer visitors from the marvelous land of oz_ (santa claus episode). DICK RANDOLPH: >Atticus: Thanks for the Baum manuscript report. >Very interesting. Let's hear more! you're very welcome, and i'd love to say more if you'll be more specific. xoxo to all, atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:25:25 -0400 (EDT) From: OZMA1024@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest dave--would you please put this into the ozzy digest-- In one of baum's early oz books, "the road to oz", it talks about how the crooked magician was dead, but in "the patchwork girl of oz" ojo the unlucky and unk visit him and his wife. was this before he die, or did mr. baum make a mistake? -kate ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:34:04 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls This weekend we went to the Smithsonian Exhibit in San Jose. Of major interest were the "ruby slippers." The director of the exhibit told us the two most popular things in the entire Smithsonian, which includes 18 different facilities, all of which are in Washington DC except two in New York. Obviously one is the ruby slippers. The other is Archy Bunker's chair!!!!! Now the ruby slippers. Looking at them you would have to call them the "rusty slippers." They apparently have faded a lot and are sort of washed out rust colored. The pair doesn't even match in size as Judy's feet didn't match either. This pair has felt on the bottums for dance numbers so she wouldn't make too much noise on the YBR. With the slippers off on exhibit some kind Oz person loaned the Smithsonian in Washington DC a pair as they are so popular. Was that one of us? I think she said there were actually about eleven pair made. By the way, the "docent" by the slippers had never read an Oz book and didn't know anything about silver slippers. If this exhibit makes it to your area it is worth a look. It is even free. John >Aristotle, Moses, and Thomas Aquinas would all describe capitalism in more or less the same way. Please enlighten us as to when any of the above ever observed capitalism? Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:36:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-97 Favorite movies featuring someone from the MGM Oz? Here are mine: Judy Garland: A STAR IS BORN, EASTER PARADE, PIGSKIN PARADE Ray Bolger: THE HARVEY GIRLS Margaret Hamilton: everything I've ever seen her in. Pure professional. Frank Morgan and Billie Burke: Nothing leaps to mind, although I've certainly seen them in other things. Burke played a cutely dittsy wife in one... Jack Haley:REBECCA OF SUNNYBROOK FARM Bert Lahr: What springs to mind here is his stage performance in NYC in Waiting for Godot." Awesome. Ruth: I hope the guy liked the Winkie Con. (?) It's true, in my experience, that most Ozzies are put off by Farmer's Oz. I am, at least. Maybe you can talk me into going to the MN festival next year. We could cut expenses some if we roomed together or something. But I wonder what that plane fare would be. I'd love to see you and Nancy again, though, and spending time with Steve, Nikki, and Jamie also sounds good, not to mention the Oz connection itself. To those DIGESTERS who know each other only via e-mail...I hope you get to meet some of us face-to-face. I've said it before, and I know I'll say it again: we frequently find ourselves included in each other's extended family. I find myself actively missing some of you. Dave, thank you so much for having the DIGEST for us. It's a big help in keeping the "family" together. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:04:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 Bob. C.: You wrote>...Oziana. How does one >submit projects for that, and what type of projects are you looking >for? To submit to OZIANA, either snail-mail or e-mail (but not in an attachment) your story to me. OZIANA is the fiction magazine of IWOC. I'm always looking for creative solutions to Ozian "mysteries" (a.k.a. inconsistencies) or hitherto unknown adventures of Oz characters. OZIANA also accepts camera-ready black and white line drawings. That's easy. Santa's magic! He can go anywhere. C'mon, Bob, ya gotta believe! ;) David: I'll check with Pete about the stories. Thanks. BTW, I think that Reilly & Lee did a very good job in binding many of the Oz books. I've seen thousands of them, and the majority of them are in very readable condition, despite obvious signs of wear. I understand that the really bad ones are less likely to have found their way to me, since people would be more likely to have trashed them, but I've seen so many in remarkably good condition (and I'm not talking about the vg+ to mint ones which haven't been read, just stored somewhere safe) that I feel the publishers created a remarkably sturdy product. This, in spite of the fact that R&L was careless in other ways. Lit. Genres--Sci Fi/Fantasy and Whatever: Orson Scott Card's Ender series defies categorization for me, although I know it's usually considered sci-fi. ENDER'S GAME, SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD,and XENOCIDE are incredible books that happen to have a science-fiction setting, but are mind-bendingly good writing. They are philosophical novels. Philosophy is a stronger element than sci-fi in them. I sense a discrepancy in my thought pattern here, because there's a series of books that are very readable with tales set in a medieval-like place with very, very strong Christian religiosity as a central element, yet I consider them fantasy. Wish I could think of the author's name or a title or something... Anyway, Card's work is spectacularly good. The man must be a genius:his understanding of genius is, um, to overuse the word, spectacular. This is food for thought for me. Why do I have trouble thinking of ENDER'S GAME as "merely" sci-fi"? Does that mean sci-fi can't be excellent? That's not what it *should* mean, but the book (and its sequels) transcend restriction into one genre. Anyone else out there read Card? Jeremy: You wrote: >I, too, prefer Oz in Another Dimension. Otherwise, it >implies that our >universe went wrong sometime . . . I started to disagree with this at first, then realized I kinda agree with the implication. If our universe was once the same as Oz's, then Oz is clearly the world that "went right." The Kieran thing: I'm glad I'm not the only one who wrote this individual. I agree with most comments made in the DIGEST of the 10th, here. We really need to be careful with our wording. (Me too!) Sometimes it obscures our meaning with an overlay of attitude.(Scott, that last sentence may explain some of my angry responses). Sometimes, as with me, it's just a case of losing one's temper in print. Scott H.: I don't know the answers to the questions about Tom and Groucho. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 03:28:22 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-97 Atticus: Thanks for your manuscript report. Dave asked :"What are Digest members' favorite movies featuring someone from the MGM Oz?" Here are mine: Judy Garland: Meet Me In St. Louis, Easter Parade, Babes In Arms Ray Bolger: The Harvey Girls Margaret Hamilton: My Little Chickadee Frank Morgan: Boom Town, Tortilla Flat, Shop Around The Corner Billie Burke: Father of the Bride Jack Haley: None Bert Lahr: (Well, like he said, "How many lion roles are there?") Charley Grapewin: The Grapes of Wrath Clara Blandick: Life With Father Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:16:27 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 8/9-10 Digest, Bear says, Of course. And if I just keep it for my entire remaining life, that's still no proof that I did not someday really intend to return it. Anyway, since property is theft, we are all thieves. Oh wait, that political dogma has been discredited. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:54:13 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Liz Schaible reported in yesterday's Digest that David Maxine delivered a paper at the Munchkin conference on the music from Baum's musicals. Does anyone know Mr. Maxine well enough to write him and ask if that quotation on the dedication page of _Road_ is in fact from one of the musicals? Atty: Thanks for your detailed observations on the MS's of _Tin Woodman_ and _Magic_. Robin: I like the way you think! Ruggedo's theft of the love magnet would make a great story, and just imagine what would happen if it fell into the hands of that narcissist Languidere. The main problem of a love-magnet plot would be to keep it from reading like a veiled allegory of charismatic sect leaders like Jim Jones or David Koresh. Ruth: Thanks for your explanation of Stephen/Steven. I don't think most Americans are at all aware of the extent to which medial voiceless consonants become voiced in American English, but it's something I have to deal with constantly in teaching German. The word "butter" is spelled the same in both languages, but my students inevitably want to pronounce it as "budder." We Americans do the same thing with "ciddy," "kiddy" (for "kitty"), "liddle," and so on, while the British maintain the voiceless t or go for a glottal stop. In German, incidentally, Stephan is pronounced with the original voiceless f sound. Richard: Kieran was indeed around a couple of months. He posted an exuberant message back in late May urging us all to lighten up and drop the long, boring discussions of _Dorothy and the Wizard_ and turn to more entertaining topics such as news about collecting and gossip about what Oz aficianados are up to. (As if we don't do that!) There were in fact some negative responses to that message, but Tyler, exercising what I thought was superhuman restraint, wrote a very long and very kind response in which he explained the BFC discussions and the diversity of interests on the Digest. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:59:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Oz Digest Hi Once again. If you were wondering my theory is that the minute a new place is printed in a book it exists in Oz.So the IWOC Map is way behind its missing Ozmilapation,Runaway,all buckethead and Emerald City Press are missing to many place so there is no true map of Oz. David Hulan:Yes Iwould like the places not in the FF Yes I would Like the places in glass cat. Ruth Berman: I know about the IWOC map. I already have the places for Ozmilapation but not Wicked Witch or Runaway. Melody Grand:Dave recommended I ask you for the location of place in Seven Blue Mountains. Garrett Qqqquuuuuuiiiiiikkkkkkk another harty message ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:34:58 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-97 I have returned from Aberdeen (a 700mile drive in two days) andfind myself overwhelmed with some of the longest digests in my memory. The L. Frank Baum Festival was very good, filled with serious discussions and frivolitry. There were plays, readings, and talks. If you want a more complete description read my report in the Oz Observer (which you get free with IWOC membership). The book, OZ IN ABERDEEN isa catalogue of the Baum collection in the Alexander Mitchell Library. This was basically the collection of Matilda Jewell Gage,a niece of LFB who lived to be 100. It contains many signed first editions, the only surviving run of THE ABERDEEN SATURDAY PIONEER (missing 2 issues)[this can not be examined directly because of its fragility; it has been microfilmed], acopyof THE ROSE LAWN GAZETTE and many other rare and valuable items. HJG's collection has been augmented by modern reprints of some of the books she didn't have. Now Iwant togo back to Aberdeen to examine some of the books. There isalso anedition of six of the stories from MOTHER GOOSE IN PROSE, Baum's first published children's book,which is now 100 years old. It contains seven new illustrations, but it also has Maxfield Parrish illustrations. This is the only edition of MGIP currectly in print. Bear: Although Iam Stephen (and sign my posts Steve T.), I am not insulted when addressed as Steven--I just attribute it to ignorance, which is cureable--unlike stupidity (which is inherent) and willfull ignorance (which is reprehensible). There has been somediscussion of the location of Butterfield. I live in the southeast corner of Kansas (about 5 miles from the Missouri border. Let it be noted in RTO Aunt Em and Dorothy pass through Franklin or the way to Dr. Worley[?]. Franklin,Kansas is seven miles from me. Doug Silfer: Mombi is in THE LOST KING OF OZ. Join IWOC the savings you will get onclub publications will more than make up the $25. And you will get THE BAUM BUGLE, THE OZ OBSERVER, and THE OZ GAZETTE. You can also attend conventions. Tyler: Your statement that RTO is closely modeled on the MGM film opens a discussion I have long had with Chris Dulabone. Except for the Ruby Slippers, there is nothing that is taken directly from the MGM film. MGM takes place in1939; RTO takes place in 1900. MGM insists that Dorothy's experiences are only a dream; RTO suggests that they were real, by Ozma's appearance in Dorothy's mirror at the end. MGM wasa musical; there are no songs in RTO. Dorothy is the only character who is major in both films. The Tin Woodman and the Cowardly Lion are mere walk-ons in RTO. In what ways do you see RTO as a MGM clone? The fact thatmany of the things in Oz have equivalents in Kansas? But this is suggested in RTO, not emphasized as in MGM. Barbara De John: Youasked if theother silent filmsare better than Patchwork Girl. The 1925WIZARD isfar worse. THE MAGIC CLOAK and HIS MAJESTY THE SCARECROW are comparable to PATCHWORK GIRL. There are excellent and stupid things in all three. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:45:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-97 Jack's Brains: Always knew he was a seedy-looking character :-) . Dick: So I wasn't the only person confused as to Kieran's gender! Thanks, Dave, for the clarification. Re New Jersey: I admit it, I don't know where in NJ I lived, but it was a town called Tinton Falls, in Monmouth County and close to Monmouth College as well as to Red Bank. Wherever it was, I still liked the outdoors there, and the school system was the best of any I've ever had the (mis)fortune to attend. Dave: You cite examples of movies that the stars of the MGM movie star in, but cannot find one for Jack Haley. Well, even if he hasn't been in any other movie, he's featured every few years and talks his way away--I refer, of course, to Haley's Comment. :-) With that, we'll retire before someone throws something at us. --KIEX :-( and Jeremy ;-) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Bob C., it's good to hear from a clergyman in our venue. Hello to you and to your equally famous twin. :-) In the 8/9-10 Digest, David Hulan says, Ah, but there is still a lot to be said for that. And as to our mundane world's anomalous high magic potential, there is a reason. Any skilled artificer in whatever medium is a magic worker, after a fashion. It may not be magic at a high power level, but there are so many of them on the planet that the aggregate power level is high. Dave L., echoing my betters, I agree that the Books of Wonder Oz reprints are the best available. In the 8/11 Digest< Bob Spark says that he doubts that Auntie Em would take Dorothy to a psychiatrist, as was done in the movie _Return to Oz_. It seems to me that Em is very practical, if unimaginative. She thought Dorothy had a problem that was not getting better on its own. So Em took Dorothy to a doctor who supposedly could help. The only aspects of this that do not seem in consonance with the books is the availability of a psychiatrist and the money to pay him. Otherwise, it fits right in. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 16:26:17 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "AGE-AS-YOU-WISH": So there *are* some things that I agree with Thompson on over Baum... POLYPOLYCHROME THEORY??? Ruth wrote: >perhaps all of the daughters of >the rainbow are named Polychrome, but this possibility (although >ingenious) doesn't strike me as likely. Perhaps there are billions of Polychromes, just as there are billions of Ace Rimmers...(Sorry, another inane _Red Dwarf_ reference!) :) :) :) Polly: Sorry! Only one of me! (And only one 'L' in my name, Dave!) BCF: I'm picking up "vibes" that people are ready to move on to _Emerald City of Oz_...Shall we set Monday, Aug. 25 as the day we start? "RUGGEDO OR LANGWIDIERE GET HOLD OF THE LOVE MAGNET": Gordon wrote: >The main problem of a love-magnet plot would be >to keep it from reading like a veiled allegory of charismatic sect leaders >like Jim Jones or David Koresh. Well, I think that comes with the territory...After all, some still believe that _Wizard_ is an allegory on turn-of-the-century populism with Bryan, McKinnley, et. al... OZ MAPS: Garrett wrote: >If you were wondering my theory is that the minute a new place is printed >in a book it exists in Oz. I like this idea...Sort of the Book of Records in reverse... >So the IWOC Map is way behind its missing >Ozmilapation,Runaway,all buckethead and Emerald City Press are missing to >many place so there is no true map of Oz. No reason why we can't try, maybe as a group effort...Currently my photocopies of the IWOC maps have (drawn in by me) the locales from Melody's _Seven Blue Mounts._, _Wicked Witch_, and the Shanower graphic novels, as well as the locales in my own writings. Adding the BoW/ECP locales (e.g. in _Glass Cat_ and _Queen Ann_) are next on the agenda. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 13, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:17:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Haldehoff@aol.com Subject: Oz stuff Everyone: My father recently installed AOL, so I am back on the Digest mailing list. I'll be using his account until I return to college on 30 August. Chris: I looked at your web page, and liked it. Don't you think you might have overdone those flashing letters, though? Liz: I would tend to agree that Oz is in another dimension, but not on another planet. Evidence seems to suggest that Nonestica is closely linked with the Great Outside World, as they call it there. Concerning Shaggy and Butterfield: What is the discussion concerning these matters all about? Also, by the looks of things like this, I would assume that _Road_ is the BCF. When I left in May, it was _Ozma_, which shows how speedily the BCF changes. Tyler: In addition to _Lost Princess_ and _Magic_, the Frogman makes appearances in _Glinda_ and _Magical Mimics_. Also, he features in BoW's _Magic Dishpan_, and in "The Final Fate of the Frogman," a short story by Eric Shanower for Oziana (1990, I believe), which, in a way, kills him off. The character survives the story, but his Wogglebug-esque personality does not. Ruth: BoW and the Club have both printed the two Snow books, and the last few Thompsons, I believe. Concerning the North Star: Nonestica has a North Star, which Pigasus follows in _Wishing Horse_. This North Star is not necessarily Polaris, but I like to think it is. Book Reviews: I might write a few for future Digests, since I have read several Oz books and stories since I left college (not to mention before then, since I have never placed a review on the Digest). Nathan Mulac DeHoff http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ Temporarily operating out of: Haldehoff@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:53:35 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Bob Spark wrote: >> "My son is 20 years old. If he was not a >> communist, I would disown him. If he is still a communist at 30, I will >> disown him then." >liberalism equals communism ??? In France (the origin of the quotation), yes, more or less. In most of Europe, in fact, at least to some degree. "Liberalism" is a very dangerous word; the Liberal Party in the UK is descended from the Whigs, but it is the Thatcherites (and the Republicans, in the U.S.) who, for the most part, adhere to the historical Whig doctrines, while one of the reasons for the collapse of Thatcherism was its condemnation by the Church of England, which the Tories (ancestors of the Conservatives) originally organized to support. Craig Noble wrote: >I really should visit the Library of Congress. I >believe they're supposed to have at least one copy of every book ever >copyrighted in the U.S. They _receive_ a copy of everything _registered_ for copyright in the US. That doesn't mean they always keep them. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:25:33 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 David Hulan wrote: >I'm pretty sure that "Stephen" was the original spelling No, the original spelling was sigma, tau, epsilon, phi, alpha, nu, omicron, sigma. :-) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:25:39 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 David Hulan wrote: >A lot depends on how you define the term "witch". Wiccans want to try to >reserve the term for the predecessors of their own religion, which is >descended (at least in their minds, though I'm not sure how good their >evidence is) from paganism, not Satanism. But there _were_ Satanists - >since the 19th century, at least - who also called themselves "witches". >Whether there was a Satanic "witch-cult" in medieval times is something >that I doubt anyone can establish conclusively today, unless somebody >invents a time-viewer. Wicca is based on a misreading of an exploded theory from the 1929 Encyclopaedia Britannica. Their "evidence" is wholly imaginary. Serious Satanists of the Aleister Crowley variety seem to date back only to the recent past, but there was definitely a serious demonological cultus during the Renaissance. (The common notion that witches and witch burnings -- which never happened to begin with; witches were hanged, at least in England -- were a mediaeval phenomenon is just about as historical as the equally common notion that Columbus proved the Earth round, which he neither did nor needed to do.) The general idea of the Renaissance demon raisers seems to have been that they could enslave the demons they raised, and, at least among intellectuals, the question of the lawfulness of such activities was very much in suspense. See "The Discovery of Witchcraft" by Reginald Scot for a period debunking; King James VI/I, who was a fervent believer in witches, didn't like the book at all, so you can read him for the opposite view. >My assessment of Thompson's Oz as Ptolemaic is based on the presence of >stars and planets within the atmosphere I don't know how clearly premodern astronomers understood the limits of the atmosphere (although I believe they allowed it to go no further than the moon), but they definitely knew quite well that the stars were so far away as to make the entire Earth of negligible size. "Fairy tale" is really more to the purpose than "Ptolemaic". // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:31:31 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-12-97 Robin O, > Lit. Genres--Sci Fi/Fantasy and Whatever: Orson Scott Card's Ender > series defies categorization for me, although I know it's usually > considered sci-fi. I have not read any of Card's novels (or heard of him until now), but I surely shall. I am always on the lookout for some author that sounds as interesting as you have made him out to be. Thanks. Dave H47, > ...Shall we set Monday, Aug. 25 as the day we start? Sounds great to me. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:54:19 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz I deleted the August 11th Digest, so here is my response to the 12th, until Dave sends me the 11th again... Ruth: In _Tin Woodman_, Po,ychrome refers to her "old friend" the Scarecrow, so in all likelihood, it is the same Polychrome we see over and over. Kiex: As far as I can remember, the only reference to Omaha was in _Wizard_. When the Wizard said he was born in Omaha, DOrothy said "that's not far from Kansas". Nothing is said about its distance from Uncle Henry's farm. Archeologist's dream: Just imagine, if you were to stumble across a rundown old farmhouse in rural Kansas and found something that had Henry and Em's name on it! Bear: An attachment is an independent file attached to a message. On CompuServe, the file is simply appended to the message, making it particularly messy in regards to binary files and images. Other mail servers isolate the file so you can save it separately and apart from the message. Susan: Your theory sounds much like Heinlein's in _Number of the Beast_, which was that our thought reverberations actually create the Universe's we fantasize about. THerefore, when the adventurers in Gay Deceiver were thinking about Oz... In the 170 or so published Oz books (plus the 40 or so unpublished), there are quite a lot of those little places. That's why I prefer my hyperdimensional bubble-Universe theory. That way, it isn't really necessary to map most of them. Steve: Well, it's not a clone, but it is definitely modeled on the MGM movie instead of the books. Kiex: Jack Haley has been in at least one other movie, but I have no idea which one. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:06:12 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-12-97 Bear wrote: >John >Aristotle, Moses, and Thomas Aquinas would all describe capitalism in more or less the same way. >Please enlighten us as to when any of the above ever observed capitalism? Newton Minow never observed infomercials or Jenny Jones, but he still knew a "vast wasteland" when he saw one. Capitalism by definition not only accepts usury, which all three condemned, but actually makes it the focus of society (though never before to the extent that it is today). Robin Olderman writes: [on the boundaries of various genres] The usual definitions are along these lines. Speculative Fiction: The whole megillah. Science Fiction: Something that a technically-competent writer believes _could_ happen. Usually one iffy thing is regarded as acceptable, as long as it's consistently worked out. By convention, faster-than-light travel and communications, psi powers, time travel, and parallel worlds are allowed, as long as they are presented in a way that does not outright contradict known science. Outdated concepts are allowed in older works, so that Verne, Wells, and E. E. Smith are generally Science Fiction. "Contact" is a rare Hollywood example. Fantasy: Something that a technically-competent writer doesn't really believe could happen, and expects you to take in the same spirit. Folklore, magic and antediluvian worlds like Tolkien's or Howard's are common devices. A religion actually believed by an author would not, in itself, make something Fantasy, so that "Narnia" is Fantasy, but Lewis's space trilogy is essentially Science Fiction. Science Fantasy: A rare and controversial breed, in which fantasy elements are treated in a Science-Fiction-like manner. Classic examples would be "Magic, Inc." or the Lord Darcy stories of Randall Garrett. "Quantum Leap" might also go here. Space Opera: Material that really goes too far beyond scientific realism to be legitimate Science Fiction, but which is not essentially _about_ that part, so that it is acceptable on its own terms. "Star Wars" and most of the original "Star Trek" goes here. Curmugeons put "Babylon 5" here, too, but others regard it as genuine Science Fiction with occasional lapses. Sci-Fi: Slovenly stuff done by writers too ignorant or lazy to get it right. 99% of Hollywood's attempts, including nearly all of modern "Star Trek", goes here. Note that this is not necessarily the same thing as "crap". Some material may be perfectly good Science Fiction or Fantasy and still be utterly worthless as literature. (c.f. Gernsback or the novelizations of "Dungeons and Dragons" games.) Some may be decent literature, but hopelessly trapped in "Sci-Fi", although this is rare in print, since a _good_ writer will normally take the trouble to Get It Right in any genre. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:49:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-12-97 My apologies to the digest for the missing spaces in my yesterday's posting. The machine I was using didn't want to include every keystroke and especially disliked blank spaces. It will be wonderful to be back to my own machine and netscape and away from this wretched "elm"! which does not permit corrections. On consistancy and inconsistancy: A [foolish] inconstancy in the writing of a great mind can be the hobgoblin of little minds. (I hope I haven't insulted everone on the digest :~) ). Kate: The Tin Woodman in ROAD reported hat the crooked magician was dead, but in PATCHWORK GIRL it becomes clear that the report of his death was exaggerated. It was the Tin Woodman, not Baum, that made the mistake. One film that showcased many of the stars of he 1939 WIZARD was its neglected predecessor, EVERYBODY SING. A favorite Frank Morgan film I remember was THE HUMAN COMEDY. I remembered some things from that film for decades. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:58:30 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Steve Teller: A while back you asked why the limp blue bearskin should be voiceless when the equally airless (however rigid) Jack Pumpkinhead and such like Powder-of-Life beings can talk. A thought occurred to me -- maybe the bearskin can talk, but doesn't care to, and the people around were just guessing at a cause in thinking that it couldn't talk? // Enjoyed your Aberdeen report. Barbara DeJohn: Baum's other silents similarly depart from the originals and use adult women to play boys (standard theatrical practice then). Dave Hardenbrook: You asked about favorite other-movie-performances of the MZGM "Wizard" cast. Bert Lahr had a peculiar, but engaging turn as a sort of operatic woodman (based on one of his vaudeville acts) in the movie version of "Rose Marie" starring Jeanette McDonald and Nelson Eddy. Another of their operettas, "Naughty Marietta," had Frank Morgan doing a nice job as the unreliable governor of Louisiana. It's a pity that he and Judy Garland didn't make it into the filmed version of "Annie Get Your Gun" (he died before filming started, and she wasn't in good enough health at the time to show up for filming and so was replaced). I suppose few of us (any besides Robin?) were lucky enough to see Lahr onstage. His son John (in his biography of him) argues that the Cowardly Lion was the only film that really showed off his abilities, and that all his other great performances were in live theater. Kate: The question of the Crooked Magician's "death" has been discussed in an article in the "Baum Bugle" ("The Enigma of Dr. Pipt") some years back and in various Oz Digs comments some months back. There are two main theories: that there were two Crooked Magicians (Drs. Pipt and Nikidik), or that the reports of his death were exaggerated (and he perhaps changed his name or perhaps was in full named Nikidik Pipt). Bear: Rusty slippers? -- doesn't seem to have the same ring, somehow. Robin: Yes, David Bratman enjoyed the Winkiecon. (He's been to others before, being a friend of Lee Speth and generally interested in children's fantasy, but doesn't go regularly.) // Going to next year's Aberdeen ND Baum Festival and planning to share a room sounds like a good idea. Susan Perryman: So you're going mainly after locations in the Oz stories not covered on the IWOC map? Sounds a worthy project, but difficult. Besides information on names of places, you'd really need whatever information the stories give on where the places are (there might be indications of being near a place or landmark -- south of Oogaboo, or east of the Desert, or whatever). You might need to think about getting copies of the various stories, rather than depending on information summarized from them by a variety of people? Jeremy Steadman: With your pension for irony, you could retire and ironicalize for free. Actually, Shakespeare did get tired of plays on words and retired to Stratford, strange as it seems. Sally Roesch Wagner is going to speak on "Pioneer Women: Forging New Frontiers" Tuesday evening, August 26, at the Edina Community Library of Minneapolis. In connection with this, she wrote an article, "What I Do for a Living," for "The Minnesota Women's Press," in the August 6 issue, about studying women of history and enacting them in performance. The article includes several comments about Baum as the son-in-law of feminist Matilda Joslyn Gage þ about hearing from Matilda Jewel Gage (Baum's niece) about her sister Dorothy who died in infancy shortly before "The Wizard" was published, about going to look at Dorothy Gage's grave in Bloomington IL, and about Baum's failure to live up to his own ideals when he wrote an editorial for his Aberdeen newspaper advocating genocide of the Sioux; and about the probable influence of the Iroquois nations on the elder Gage's feminist beliefs. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:06:59 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest This is in response to several private e-mails I have received re my recent Digest comments on Oz book scarcity and Oz prices: My comments referred to first states of Land vs Wizard. But if one is talking about NICE copies of the Wizard later states, they are quite rare, too. In my experience, copies of the Land first state tend to be in better shape than the average Wizard 2nd or 3rd state, which leads me to believe that it had a stronger binding. But the rarity of books is rather subjective as the comments in the Ozzy Digest indicate. I've had many first state Tin Woodmans, but lately the supply has dried up. This seems to run in mysterious cycles. Three years ago I found 5 Merry-Go-Round firsts, but none the past two years. The Aunt Jane's Nieces series have also been scarce here of late, but that doesn't make them intrinsically rare. I still have almost 100 in my inventory. Finally, all of my comments refer to books at REASONABLE prices. Unfortunately, if you live on the West Coast, you are in the land of obscene Oz prices. Too many people, too few old books! And the advent of the Internet has hastened the export of these prices eastward, but I wonder how many books are actually sold at the asking price. When I point out to a dealer that a book has been on his shelf one or two years (and therefore overpriced), I am often able to negotiate a substantial discount. Beware of price guides based on dealer catalog asking prices. My estimate of fair price is based on realizations and trends at the three annual IWOC auctions (averaged over several years), not the highest price paid when two wealthy bidders both wanted a book badly. If you were looking for a used Porsche, would you pay the highest price on record? And material at the IWOC auctions ranges from reading copies to fine signed first in DJ. Many dealers price based on actual auction realizations. The problem here is that often the material sold at a top auction house like Christies or Swann is truly fine and deserves top dollar. But in the real world of the average book dealer, few books approach this condition, and the price shouldn't either. There are lots of Oz books out there, but I absolutely refuse to overpay. If everyone was a bit less anxious, the market prices would be more reasonable. As with everything, instant gratification costs dearly. Take your time in building your collection. After all, its nice to have something to look forward to! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 97 09:41:10 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things PLANET OZZYWOOD: Just for clarification, my theory is that Oz is on Earth, but on a "parallel" Earth, which is why I give it a name to distinguish it from our Earth...But "Nerrum" (a.k.a. "Nonestica") has the continents and oceans that Earth has; it just has a few extras, like Baumgea. Also, the alternate history of Nerrum is such that even on the "Outside World" continents there is little war, pollution, etc. And this being "Nonestica", the Outside World Continents also have places that on our Earth are fictional, e.g. Nonestica's Minneapolis, MN has a run-down low-budget TV station called WJM; Nonestica's Great Britian's Prime Minister is the Right Honorable James Hacker, M.P.; and there is a little community near Nonestica's Santa Rosa, CA that is home to a group of kids named Charlie Brown, Lucy and Linus Van Pelt, Sally, Schroeder, Peppermint Patty, Marcie, and a member of species _Canis sapiens_ named Snoopy, and of species _Archeopteryx extantus_ named Woodstock. Also, Nerrum/Nonestica *is* in a Copernican-Shapleyian-Einsteinian-Hubbleian universe, like we are, and it *does* have a North star. "THE YEAR IS 1"...NOT!!!: Speaking of the recent talk on the Digest about witches and Satanism, did anyone else see _Rosemary's Baby_ on Turner the other night? There's nothing like that the horrible feeling that you've just wasted two hours watching the stupidest thing ever conceived. I mean, what was the point? They should have ended it the way I heard (ardent Oz fan) Ray Bradbury wanted to end it... BTW, my Ozian timeline gives 1903 as the year of Ozma's accession, so the year is in fact 95. :) SCIENCE FICTION: Thanks to John for the distictions between, Science Fiction, Science Fantasy, etc. I wonder what category _Red Dwarf_ falls into. Or for that matter, my vision of Oz, in which there is "magic", but with a scientific justification... MY WEB PAGE: I just want to announce that the new Ozzy Digest FAQ is now on my Web page, as is the new "History of Oz" and some brief comments on my three novels (two of them 100% Ozzy, and the third with Ozzy elements in it). I would appreciate it if someone would "test drive" it and make sure all the pictures, especially on the "My stories" page are showing up. (I'm never sure that the browser is not just loading in the pictures from my own hard disk.) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 14, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:59:06 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-12-97 Re: Steve Teller's to Tyler's statement: "Your statement that RTO is closely modeled on the MGM film opens a discussion I have long had with Chris Dulabone. Except for the Ruby Slippers, there is nothing that is taken directly from the MGM film...." Just my 2 cents: Perhaps "modeled" is too strong a word, but I do believe Disney tried to tie in too much with the 1939 film--for example: the title "Return to Oz". In addition, RTO's Dorothy looks much more like Judy Garland then Neill's Dorothy, which the other characters were based on (except the Nome King). RTO, IMHO, should have totally broken from the 1939 film. Re: MGM takes place in 1939 Well, yes, the Emerald City is a little Art Deco, but other than that I've never noticed anything dating the picture to the late 1930's. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 15:14:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-12-97 Jeremy: Yes, Glinda as an Ozma, not Oz, protector. She shows no interest in "saving" Oz until she becomes aware that Ozma is "retrievable." Before then, she'd tried to find Ozma and failed. One must assume that the Glinda we meet in the first two books has not learned as much about sorcery as thje later Glinda. She can't even figure a way over the wall in LAND! Atty: Rachel C. Payes writes for the reading level of today's child. Baum wrote for the level of his generation's children. Oz was written for the 9-10 year old audience: today, most 10-year-olds would have LOTS of trouble getting through WIZARD. OTOH, you picked terrific passages to illustrate your point. I have to agree that Rachel's passage is a weak one. Gordon: I'll try to remember to ask David about that blasted music. And, BTW, I certainly like the way *your* mind works! Actually, that's what I like about the DIGEST...so many intelligent remarks... As for the allegory, oh no! Not again. Oz books are not romans a clef or even true satires, although they have satirical elements at times. You just write the story and we'll all know it's Oz you're talking about and nothin' else. (Although a moral or two couldn't hurt...Baum sure' included 'em.) Oops: Stephen has expressed confusion about my last post dealing with a MN Oz festival. I blew it. I meant the Aberdeen, SD celebration. I don't do well in Trivial Pursuit geography questions, either. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:16:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-97 > > ====================================================================== > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:25:39 +0600 > From: rri0189@ibm.net > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-05-97 > > David Hulan wrote: > > >A lot depends on how you define the term "witch". Wiccans want to try to > >reserve the term for the predecessors of their own religion, which is > >descended (at least in their minds, though I'm not sure how good their > >evidence is) from paganism, not Satanism. But there _were_ Satanists - > >since the 19th century, at least - who also called themselves "witches". > >Whether there was a Satanic "witch-cult" in medieval times is something > >that I doubt anyone can establish conclusively today, unless somebody > >invents a time-viewer. > > Wicca is based on a misreading of an exploded theory from the 1929 > Encyclopaedia Britannica. Their "evidence" is wholly imaginary. i beg to differ here the origins of wicca date back farther while aleister may be said ot be the father of wicca all he did was take the old celtic religions and bring them together in one place whitta dates back way past 1929 and is what wicca was formed from ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:24:38 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - Sigh! I'll try again. It matters not a whit, to me, what Shaggy MIGHT have "planned" to do. It's what he DID! People need to be held responsible for their ACTIONS not their might have beens. He STOLE her dog. That is a crime in 50 states. Let anyone on the Digest who would be happy to have an old bum steal their dog speak up. Also, let's turn this around. You gave four possibilities. If you are willing to convict someone on the basis of the least of these possibilities, someone else is going to come along and convict on the basis of the worst. It is all subjective. Spare us from that. And in a similar vein - Atticus - >to me that seems like an idiotic law ridiculing a profession which receives far too much flak to begin with. i think people who don't understand psychology try to knock it. therapy saved my life as well as those of numerous others. mental health professionals deserve respect, not this kind of small-minded, judicially-imposed crap. You missed the point. The point is a degree in psychology does not give you the ability to read minds. Any time you have a psychologist testifying as to why someone did something jurors should be warned that it is just their OPINION. One state just provided a visual cue that that is the case. By the way, my wife is a therapist and I have plenty of respect for the profession. At least for those in it who do not claim psychic powers. I'm glad to hear it was so effective in your life. Now if you could just learn to capitalize and use *****SPOILERS******* Robin - Are you thinking of Katherine Kurtz "Deryni" and "Camber" and "Kelson" series? I have read some Card. Also, prepare to duck, you did the unmentionable and called it, shudder, "sci-fi." :) Dave >BCF: I'm picking up "vibes" that people are ready to move on to _Emerald City of Oz_...Shall we set Monday, Aug. 25 as the day we start? Sounds great. Suggest you put a notice of this in your "footer" so people who read spottily will run across it and those of us with fragile memories can find it at need. Now what was my name..... Oh yes! Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:27:04 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Tyler vs. AT&T and US West: Due to some disputes between myself and these two corporate behemoths, my phone may be disconnected inthe next couple of days. If this is the case, I will continue to post to and read the digest from my work account. Cross you fingers and fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night. Liz: At the end of the day, there is no practical difference between IN another dimension and ACCESSIBLE through another dimension. Imagine if you will that the floor and ceiling of your house are each two-dimensional Universes. They both exist in the same three-dimensional space, but one Universe cannot see the other. You cannot get from one to the other by travelling normally. You must acess the third dimension to cross over. The two Universes are not really IN different dimensions, they just exist in different places in a continuum that a a dimension different from the two that comprise their Universe. All in all, the two phrases mean practically the same thing. Ruth: I'm a little confused. Are you referring to my "A Generic Oz Story" or to another magzine which commented on the story? Stephen: You, you have not insulted me, since my great mind is never foolish :-) Dave: The HACC Timeline has Ozma's ascension in 1902. This may or may not be a little early. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:06:37 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS John >They _receive_ a copy of everything _registered_ for copyright in the US. That doesn't mean they always keep them. Is there a story here? What do they do with those they don't keep? John >Capitalism by definition not only accepts usury, which all three condemned, but actually makes it the focus of society (though never before to the extent that it is today). I can't agree. Whose definition are you using? In a real Capitalist society if you wanted to loan money you would be free to charge whatever interest you wanted. I would be free not to borrow from you if your rate was too high. We do not live in a Capitalist society currently. WE have allowed the government to get there hands on every aspect of our lives, whether it is allowed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights or not. Including interest rates. Please elaborate on your statement. You know John, your definitions remind me of someone examining a flower by pulling all the petals off. They sort of take away the charm, magic and beauty. Ruth >A thought occurred to me -- maybe the bearskin can talk, but doesn't care to... If IRC, Toto can really talk but just doesn't choose to in the early books of the FF. There is a precedent. Quietly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:44:25 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 Ryan: Did you find any indication that Baum might have originally had Nimmee settle down with a guy made entirely from castoff parts of Nick Chopper? This is an idle curiosity question. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:44:52 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 Bob C. >On to Polychrome, who is the most endearing character to me in the book (sorry, Gordon). Polychrome tells Dorothy she has no magical powers, but doesn't she use some in a later book, maybe "Tinman"? I may be mistaken.< You are not mistaken. In"Road" she claims she has no magic. Later, she's a powerful fairy. Her case is probably like the Wizard's--at first she did not know how to work magic, then learned how later. Likely her Daddy, after the first time he lost her, decided to teach her how to fend for herself if it happened again...:-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:13:52 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz Digest stuff Atticus: Regarding THE WICKED WITCH OF OZ.... Well you cite a good example of the difference in writing between Cosgrove Payes and Baum. I whole heartedly agree with you that Baum is a superior writer. I think you're coming down a bit hard on Payes. She writes in a whimsical style that is reminiscent of Grimms Fairy tales. I don't take offense to it. It is just a different style. I actually have trouble reading RPThompson. I've read all the Baum Oz books and read the Royal Book of Oz by RPT. However, I couldn't get through KABUMPO in OZ and THE LOST KING...something about her writing style that bothers me. I haven't figured it out, though. When I do, I'll be sure to post it! :-) I just finished Carlson and Gjovaag's QUEEN ANN IN OZ and I liked it very much. All: How come Del Rey is not publishing THE MAGIC OF OZ. I read it thanks to the library, but I can't purchase it anywhere. I have 1-12 and 14 of the Del Rey Baum Oz books. All the book stores I have contacted state that 1-12 and 14 is still in print, but 13 is not. What is it about book 13?? I went over it a few times and I can't think of any valid reason for not having in print. My theories are that Del Rey didn't like Cap'n Bill's more graphically violent encounter with the Kalidah and a few references to the glass "CAT" using a term that now is considered vulgar. My other theory is that Del Rey is simpling phasing out the Oz books in print and they randomly started with THE MAGIC OF OZ. Nathan: I wonder why Eric Shanower killed off the Frogman's Wogglebug-esque personality? The Frogman lost his Wogglebug-esque side when he took a dip in the fountain. This may be an old question, but please bear with the newbie: WHAT IS THE REAL STORY BEHIND Roquat's name change to RUGGEDO?? I can't believe it was intentional. It seems like Baum forgot the old name or something else. Maybe I'm wrong, but there seems more to it. Take care all!! Douglas Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:03:52 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Dave, the hexes are back in the 8/13 Digest. In the same issue, Tyler Jones mentions a theory that our fantasies become real in some new world or universe. Despite wanting our joint fantasy world of Oz to be real, I find this idea very disturbing! If our fantasies do become real, then it *is* as evil to think of a bad thing as it is to do it. I am reasonably sure that I am not unique in having my private fantasies at times take some nasty turns. I shudder to think of the iniquities that I have inflicted, if these fantasy worlds were made real. :-(( No, our unjust and fallen world is just not that bad. Speaking of dark material, someone (Jack Kennedy?) mentioned last month the arrival of the much anticipated _The Subtle Knife_, second volume in Phillips Pullman's _His Dark Materials_ trilogy. The first volume, the award winning _The Golden Compass_, appeared circa two years ago and I have been looking for the sequel ever since. I finished savoring my copy of _Knife_ this week. There are no armored bears this time, but the book maintains the spirit and interest of its predecessor. Indeed, _Knife_ ratchets up the tension. One feels that a big climax is just over the horizon. Now do I have to wait another two years for the conclusion? ******** Subtle Knife Spoiler Alert ************************************** The book raises more questions than it answers, but, presumably, most will be resolved in the concluding volume. One question is foremost, however. Just what is Pullman doing? It seems like the story is running in a direction that will be heavy sledding for its intended young adult audience: The War in Heaven, Part II -- and we're on the side of the rebel angels! ******** End Subtle Knife Spoiler Alert ********************************** Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:03:19 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest apologies for hexing the Oz Digs today -- I forgot and put in a dash instead of two hyphens. Nathan DeHoff: Yes, "Road" is the current book for discussion. Dave has suggested that August 25 be the day to start discussing "Emerald City." Herm Bieber: Thanks for the interesting information on pricing/scarcity. Dave Hardenbrook: Would you say that the Nonestican North Star is "as constant as the Northern Star" ("Julius Caesar"), or do they have precession of the equinoxes? (Isaac Asimov once commented that Caesar's line is conclusive proof that Bacon couldn't possibly have written Shakespeare -- Bacon knew too much astronomy.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 97 10:45:57 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS: Ear wrote: >In the same issue, Tyler Jones mentions a theory that our fantasies >become real in some new world or universe. >Despite wanting our joint fantasy world of Oz to be real, I find this >idea very disturbing! If our fantasies do become real, then it *is* as >evil to think of a bad thing as it is to do it. I prefer the theory that all our fantasies are real in other universes to begin with...We didn't "create" them. This is the exact opposite BTW of the "Strong Anthropic Principle" which holds that we even created THIS universe! MORE ON PLANET NONESTICA: Ruth wrote: >Dave Hardenbrook: Would you say that the Nonestican North Star is "as >constant as the Northern Star" ("Julius Caesar"), or do they have >precession of the equinoxes? (Isaac Asimov once commented that >Caesar's line is conclusive proof that Bacon couldn't possibly have >written Shakespeare -- Bacon knew too much astronomy.) I would that except for the presence in the Nonestic Arcapelego of some fairies and other "magic"-workers, Nonestica obeys all the normal physical laws Earth does, so, yes, it would have precession. Wogglebug: The only problem with Mr Asimov's remark is that I very much doubt that Bacon was aware of precession, since it was still mega-heresy in those days to believe that the Earth moves at all! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 15, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 09:54:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-97 Ruth: You mentioned that Sally Roesch Wagner will be speaking in Minneapolis. If you get a chance, tell her that the Aberdeen L Frank Baum festival tried to cover the "genocide" editorials. However, the native American who was scheduled to speak cancelled at the last minute (one day before the festival) for "personal" reasons. The festival certainly did not ignor these editorials. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:33:29 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-97 ROBIN: >Atty: Rachel C. Payes writes for the reading level of today's child. >Baum wrote for the level of his generation's children. Oz was written for >the 9-10 year old audience: today, most 10-year-olds would have LOTS of >trouble getting through WIZARD. one last note on this, as i'm really not out to slam _wicked witch_. it disturbs me that the child's reading level has fallen like this, but i maintain that it won't kill a kid to look something up in the dictionary. after all, kids today read baum's books and seem to do all right with them. i certainly did. if we try to "dumb down" books for them, they'll be even worse off! * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:55:05 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Earl - >One question is foremost, however. Just what is Pullman doing? It seems like the story is running in a direction that will be heavy sledding for its intended young adult audience: It was I who mentioned the Pullman book although I have not read volume two as yet. Remember he is English. His audience in England may not have the problems that our little TV-saturated kiddees have. Good Grief - Where is David? The Digest has shrunk to half its normal size.:) Speaking of where is, where is Gili? Aren't you on summer vacation? I miss your posts. We need more female energy! Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:35:45 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-06-97 Is she or isn't she? From "Lost Princess of Oz:" ".... Ozma is a fairy, and so is Glinda, so no power can kill or destroy them; but you girls are all mortals, and so are Button-Bright and I, so we must watch out for ourselves." (The Wizard) "Nothing can kill me," said Ojo, the Munchkin boy. "That is true," replied theSorceress, .... The Wiz says it & Glinda does not openly disagree with it. And the Wiz, as Glinda's student of magic, should have known Glinda better than anyone else at this time.... Of course, now we get into the question of what class of fairy Glinda is compared to Ozma, but the Wiz does lump them together in that quote from "Lost Princess." :-). Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:42:23 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Tyler Jones: That was David Bratman who commented in his "Out of the Woods" on being struck by "A Generic Oz Story." After commenting that David Bratman enjoyed it, my comment of "Me, too" referred to me. Doug Silfen: You might be able to get a "horse's mouth" report if you wrote to Del Rey and asked, but I doubt that they have any special objection to "Magic." If their sales reports indicated that it sold less well than the others, that would no doubt be a factor, but it could also be simply that they ran out of it before they ran out of the others (because it sold better or because their paper supply ran short when they were printing it, or whatever), and they don't want to reprint. The person at Del Rey who really wanted to bring the Oz books into print was Judy Del Rey. To some extent, her husband, Lester Del Rey, shared that interest, but when she died and then he died there wasn't anybody left there with a strong interest in the project. You could probably find second-hand copies fairly easily -- ask Herm or Robin if they have some in stock. It'll be a few years yet before its turn comes up in the Books of Wonder series of reprints. The real story behind Roquat's name change is that Baum wrote a play based on "Ozma," his "Tik-tok Man of Oz," and either he or someone else thought Ruggedo would be a better name. (Maybe easier for the actors to say clearly, or maybe they thought the punning connection of rugged/ruggedo would be more obvious than the connection of rock/roquat.) When he adapted the play as a book, he didn't want to change the new name back again and confuse readers who might have bought the book out of interest in the play, so instead he stuck in an explanation of the new name. Dave Hardenbrook/Wogglebug: Bacon has a couple of references to the precession of the equinoxes in his essays, according to Asimov. Observing the precession doesn't really depend on having an opinion on whether the universe revolves around Earth or goes it own way while the Earth rotates, and the pre-Copernican astronomers were strong on observation, if weak on theory. Boring topic: I'd comment further on another topic, but as two people mentioned feeling it was boring, probably many or most in the group do. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:27:59 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-97 MELODY: > Did you find any indication that Baum might have originally had >Nimmee settle down with a guy made entirely from castoff parts of Nick >Chopper? This is an idle curiosity question. :-) there was no indication in the manuscript that baum had this intention. briefly, atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:54:30 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz To talk or not: In several Oz books it is mentioned that the Sawhorse rarely prefers to talk. Doug: I know for a fact Del Rey at one time published ALL of the Baum 14 plus several of the Thompson's. Maybe your second theory is correct and _Magic_, much like Solaria of Asimov's Spacer World's, is the first to go. If so, then it is indeed a dark day. Ruggedo, what REALLY happened: According to Baum, The Nome King drank the water of oblivion and forgot his name, thus he had to take another. This sounds fishy for two reasons. 1. Surely, someone would have told him his name once he returned home. 2. In every other case where he drank the water, his memory recovered. IMHO, he considered his first experience to be a rebirth of sorts, and took the name Ruggedo. Possibly, this is a family name or some such. Baum remembered his old name, since he mentioned it in _Tik-Tok_ while explaining the name change. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 20:38:55 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-97 Tyler Jones wrote: >The >two Universes are not really IN different dimensions, they just exist in >different places in a continuum that a a dimension different from the two >that comprise their Universe. You're right, but "dimension" has, in SF circles, acquired the additional meaning of "continuum separated from another continuum along a dimension superficially supernumerary to either". I dare say it was originally a mere mistake (though I don't know the actual origin -- it probably was by way of the "Skylark" books; I don't offhand recall Smith commiting the solecism himself, but a little carelessness could easily have taken the final step), but it is far too fixed in use to be expunged now. Richard Bauman wrote: >Is there a story here? What do[es the Library of Congress] do with those >[deposit copies] they don't keep? I don't know, offhand. They probably keep most hardcover books from legitimate publishers, but I know they don't (and can't) keep everything. >I can't agree. Whose definition are you using? In a real Capitalist >society if you wanted to loan money you would be free to charge whatever >interest you wanted. I would be free not to borrow from you if your rate >was too high. We do not live in a Capitalist society currently. WE have >allowed the government to get there hands on every aspect of our lives, >whether it is allowed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights or not. >Including interest rates. Please elaborate on your statement. To begin with "usury" doesn't mean "excessive interest rate"; it means "interest", period, which the Bible forbids, period. This tactical redefinition of the word to mean something else always reminds me of the radical-republican (small "r") character in "The Gondoliers" who, on learning that he has a 50% chance to inherit a throne, immediately explains that when he said he detested kings, he meant, of course, that he detested _bad_ kings. "Oh no, when God said that taking interest was wicked, He only meant that taking _too_ _much_ interest was wicked." Right. Not that the Bible has anything to do with the U.S. Consititution, but what I said in the first place was about Moses, Thomas Aquinas, and Aristotle, not the Framers. We may live in a properous society, but science, after all, has a good deal to do with that, and we would do well to remember from time to time that a large part of our social system is based on a practice that, for the better part of western history, has been considered a contemptible sin. (Interestingly enough, Dante put bankers and homosexuals into the same part of Hell, regarding the two sins as symbolically equivalent. And it wasn't mere bias, by the way; one of the homosexuals encountered was a dear friend of Dante's, who, in the poem, is deeply affected by his plight.) Dave reports: >Wogglebug: The only problem with Mr Asimov's remark is that I very much > doubt that Bacon was aware of precession, since it was still > mega-heresy in those days to believe that the Earth moves at > all! Not so, oh hignly-magnified one. The mechanism of the Precession of the Equinoxes was not understood, but the _fact_ had been known for nearly 2000 years. Whether understood as wobbling of the Earth or as an extra eccentric on the Sphere of Fixed Stars, the apparent motion of the north celestial pole has been familiar to western astronomers since Hipparchus. Any competent astronomer knew that, in Caesar's time, there had been no tolerably bright star tolerably close to the pole. (And as to the general point, it is quite obvious that the author of Shakepeare's plays had only a middle-class education. His Latin is all standard schoolboy stuff, and he obviously knew no Greek at all -- just as Jonson remarked -- while he seems to have studied French only enough to talk dirty in it, and he regularly makes a complete hash of astronomy, even in Ptolomaic terms. And why not, after all? Nearly all great writers in history have been middle-class. For every Charles d'Orleans there are a hundred Chretiens de Troyes.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:16:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Haldehoff@aol.com Subject: Oz Matters Regarding Stars in the Ozian Atmosphere: I think that many of these stars might be artificial. Battery Batt's star in _Runaway_ certainly is, being lit by electricity and all that. Douglas: I know there was a Del Rey _Magic_ at one point, since I checked it out of the library and read it. As for the reasons you gave for possibly discontinuing it, I don't think that the words "puss" and "pussy" are inappropriate when used to describe cats, and I'm not sure the piercing of the Kalidah was much more violent than some scenes in _Wizard_ and _Dorothy and the Wizard_. Anyway, if you can't find the Del Rey edition, try contacting Books of Wonder. I'm pretty sure they have a paperback edition out. Baum called the Nome King "Ruggedo" in the play "The Tik-Tok Man of Oz," and, since _Tik-Tok_ was based on that, he called the King Ruggedo in the book, with a footnote stating that he changed his name after his memory loss in _Emerald City_. I'm not sure why Baum didn't use the name "Roquat" in the play. Perhaps he thought it was too hard to pronounce, or maybe he did not originally intend the play's Nome King to be the same one who was in the Oz books. In Eric Shanower's story, it is revealed that the Frogman could not keep acting like a person, since the Truth Pond forced him to act truthfully, which, in his case, was like a frog. According to the story, the Frogman removed his clothes, reverted to moving like a frog, and decided to guard the Truth Pond, so that no one else would have to share his fate. Atticus: I also preferred Baum's style of writing to that of R. C. Payes. In a way, however, the example you gave, although boring to read, gave some insight into Singra's mind, which would have been lost if Payes had simply written something like: "Singra attempted to hide the cheese in the sugar bowl, but it would not fit." Also, IIRC, Baum was occasionally guilty of the same type of writing of which you accuse Payes, especially in his earlier books. For instance, in _Wizard_, the characters constantly repeat what they want from the Wizard. I personally find Thompson's books to be the most fun to read. She had a quirky writing style, with humorous asides and an interesting vocabulary, including many words that she made up. Basically, Baum had a straightforward, prosaic style, while Thompson liked to play with the language. I like the styles of both of these writers, but find Thompson's books a little easier to get through. Garrett: I like your idea of a map containing locations from books other than the ones covered by Haff and Martin's map (and have often considered attempting such a project myself). It strikes me that some books would be considerably easier to map than others. _Wicked Witch_, _Queen Ann_, and _Glass Cat_ would be fairly easy to map, since the former two contain maps, and the last one is pretty clear in giving the locations of places. _Runaway_, on the other hand, might be more difficult, as Neill often seemed to ignore the geozaphy given in earlier books. As for the location of the Seven Blue Mountains, they are in the northeastern Munchkin Country. The northern border of the SBM territory is formed by Headland, and we can tell that the area does not reach as far south as Mount Munch, since Nick and his companions did not have to cross the Jaggedlands to reach Nimmie Amee's house. I am not sure if the text of _Disenchanted Princess_ gave any indication of where in the SBM territory places such as Lonlee, Trope, and the Withy Woods are located, and I KNOW it did not tell where Zim's Arboretum is. Nathan Mulac DeHoff "Step by step one goes a long way." -The Soothsayer ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:55:11 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-97 Douglas Silfin: >However, I couldn't get through KABUMPO in OZ and THE LOST KING...something about her writing style that bothers me. I haven't figured it out, though. When I do, I'll be sure to post it! :-)< For me (partly) it's how Thompson's characters "shrilled," "gulped", "breathed," "gasped," and "choked" their lines. And too many incredible coincidences. She did have a very active imagination & gift for puns, though. :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:59:45 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-97 Richard Bauman: I agree with your statement about Psychiatrists. I took some psychiatric medicine for a time and it allowed me to function when I otherwise could not. It helped me over the hump and I'm glad to say that now I live a happy life! :-) Douglas Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Aug 97 14:46:23 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things RUGGEDO: Tyler wrote: >According to Baum, The Nome King drank the water of oblivion and forgot his >name, thus he had to take another. This sounds fishy for two reasons. >1. Surely, someone would have told him his name once he returned home. >2. In every other case where he drank the water, his memory recovered. >IMHO, he considered his first experience to be a rebirth of sorts, and took >the name Ruggedo. Possibly, this is a family name or some such. Of course, I have my own theory on this, but I can't reveal too much without it being a "spoiler" for _Locasta_...But basically, _ECOz_ is the only time he really did lose his memory for an extended period. Starting some time after his memory loss in _Magic_, he has been immune to the H2O of Ob. and only pretended amnesia in order to escape a worse fate, and to give the Ozites a false sense of security... Zurline: *What* made him immune? Adepts: Sorry, we're not at liberty to say...Wait for Dave's book... :) DEL REY BOOKS: Last time I was at Barnes & Noble (about two months ago) they still had some Del Rey Baum 14, though it did look as though they were phasing them out (But they *do* carry the BoW reprints)...So maybe Del Rey has stopped printing them -- now that its two Oz enthusiasts are gone -- and are just letting their current supply run out. It reminds me of my local Software, Etc. store -- They used to be the one place this side of Disneyland (I'm in Huntington Beach a couple of miles from the coast for those who don't know) where I could find software for my Amiga. They had an Amiga stock because they had two guys there who were big Amiga proponents...Eventually they both moved on, after which the store dropped their Amiga stock faster than a nome would drop a hot egg. THE FROGMAN: Shanower's fate for the Frogman strikes me as very un-Ozzy...Is this story considered "historical" by the HACC? Wogglebug: (sarcastically) Presumably, if I took a dip in the truth pond, *I* would become an *ordinary* insect...AS IF!!! Cayke: Besides, who's to say what acting "truthfully" is? Doesn't it mean "being yourself"? Being the Frogman is "truthful" for the Frogman! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 16 - 17, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 21:10:50 -0400 From: Richard Randolph Subject: Ozzy Digest 8-14-97 Doug: Del Rey DID publish _Magic of Oz_, in fact, I purchased one two days ago in a Barnes & Noble bookstore here in New Jersey. It was the only copy of that particular Del Rey Oz book on their shelves, but I'll check some of their other stores in my area for you. One of my granddaughters is reading her way through the Baum Oz books I've been loaning her, but my old Magic 1st is very fragile, and I bought it for her to read. Dick ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:06:23 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Ruth - I'm right here, address above. I don't find it boring. So have at it. :) In fact, I have never let anyone else decide for me what is boring and what is interesting. That's why I dont' read book reviews. That sure cuts down on the value of my Locus subscription. Sigh. John - Errrrr....Thanks for the clarification.....I guess. I don't think I want to touch the rest of your post. I'll retire from the field until next time. Tired and retired, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:41:56 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Heavy Sledding In the 8/15 Digest, Steve Teller says, I love the words in English that whose alternate meanings are opposite. Steve just used one of them. Cover can mean to explore thoroughly and it can mean to hide. Based on what he subsequently says, I think that Steve meant the former in his post, but perhaps he should clarify. Re _The Subtle Knife_: Bear, My Pullman comment was not based on worry about the lamentable dumbing down of younger Americans. It was on the problem of presenting the youngsters with the idea that God is the enemy (*if* that indeed is where the _His Dark Materials_ trilogy is going), when they tend to be in conflict with authority as it is, in the usual maturation process. *** Dave, the following may be way off base; if so, Please Delete It. *** Speaking of being against God, John Kennedy points out that the Bible does condemn lending money for interest. Seeing how lending for *limited* interest so improves the lives of almost everyone, I think that this total prohibition is wrong. (The Bible also condones slavery. Anyone want to argue in favor of slavery?) God gave us a brain. If the sacred scriptures say something that is clearly wrong, it would be more in defiance of God to ignore reason and mindlessly accept obvious errors. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:43:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Haldehoff@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-97 Tyler: At the end of _Emerald City_, Ozma herself tells the Nome King that his name is Roquat. Dave: I guess it was the Frogman himself who believed that being a human-like frog was not honest. I agree with your statements, however. Eric certainly knows his Oz, but his stories sometimes tend to be rather dark and depressing. I do not believe that any of the Oziana stories, other than _Umbrella Island_, are in the HACC. It's pretty much just books. Nathan Mulac DeHoff "I wouldn't trust a wizard as far as I could swing a chimney by the smoke!" -Grampa ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 19:16:30 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-97 Howdy, I'm back (to a degree) after being sunk in a digital morass. My advice is: if you have Microsoft Plus! don't be tempted to compress your hard drive. If you have already done so, DO NOT uncompress. If you choose to do so and the stupid thing renames a bunch of files from long names to short names (Program Files was a typical example) and screws up your registry to some degree, DO NOT ask Microsoft's tech support people for help! I have spoke!! Other than that, > Let anyone on the Digest who would be happy to have an old > bum steal their dog speak up. I, for one, would be delighted to have an old bum, or anyone else, steal my neighbor's dog :-). ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 00:40:17 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Melody: It's possible that Glinda did not see the need to quibble over terminology. In chapter four of _Glinda_ Ozma says that, while is more powerful than any other fairy in Oz, she is not more powerful than Glinda. Work through the logic of this, and Ozma is saying that Glinda is NOT a fairy. Also, Glinda consistently seems to work magic differently than Ozma or Polychrome. I think I've said this before, but Glinda, IMHO, just does not act like or seem like a fairy.There is no pressing need for her to be one, after all, and she is clearly different from the fairies that we have seen. If it's Ozma against the Wizard, I'll have to go with Ozma :-) In _Magical Mimics_, Ozma says that Glinda is not a member of Lurline's band. Although that does not does not eliminate the possibility of her being a fairy, it comes pretty close. Most of the fairies we see tend to be depicted as little girls (with the possible exception of Ozma, based on Dave's conspiracy theory :-)), but Glinda is consistently portrayed as an adult woman. It seems to me that the desire to believe that Glinda is a fairy derives from a wish to link her more closely with Oz itself. Oz is a fairyland and Ozma is a fairy. Therefore, Glinda should be one too. Some people have also referred to the inhabitants of Oz in general as fairies. Despite the Wizard's comments, it doesn't really add up, though. Ruth: Where could I get a copy of this "Out of the woods" commentary? I'd like to see it. Between your "Oz as literature" and my "Oz as history" explanations, I believe we've got the Nome King's name change pretty well covered. John Kennedy: I remember someone telling me that the bible forbade charging interest greater than 6%, possibly some symbolism with 666, but I don't know for sure. Nathan: I'll agree with you there. Despite my ocasional sniping, RPT is my favorite author of the FF, except for her overuse of the word "cozy". Of course, I overuse the word "however" in my writing. However, everyone has one weakness. However, it should not detract from all else. However... Dave: Since Shanower's Frogman story appeared in a magazine, it is not considered HACC-worthy, although it would explain his absence from the national scene for such a long time. However (there's that word again), someone may write of him again. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 01:24:11 -0400 (EDT) From: JoelHarris@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-13-97 Herm: I enjoyed your recent analysis of book prices and collecting. My problem is that when I do find out book out west that I need, I tend to buy it - and find myself continually upgrading. I guess I could wait to find the perfect copy, but then I'd have a small collection and not much fun! Joel (temporarily absent) Harris ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 05:47:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-97 Atty.: I agree that kids *should* be willing to look up words in the dictionary and that it is (very) dismaying that the reading level has dropped so, but it has, and kids in general aren't very willing to read a book they don't understand when they can find something easier to read. Aargh. Not enough parents motivate their kiddos to find the joys of reading and discovering things for themselves. Motivation is needed before a child will bother to look things up. In your case, I'll bet, your folks encouraged you to read and your natural intelligence took over from there. Usury: FWIW--The word changed its meaning from the taking of *any* interest to the taking of *too much* interest at the time of the Reformation. Melody:>> For me (partly) it's how Thompson's characters "shrilled," "gulped","breathed," "gasped," and "choked" their lines. I *liked* those colorful verbs as a kid! Now, however, writers are taught to shy away from too much of that and to rely more on "said" than before (although not to rely on it exclusively). Your preferences and mine may be indicative of a generation gap. Dunno. David: Let 'em jump down my throat for using the term "sci-fi." I've always felt the distinctions here to be a bit pompous and absurd. OTOH, if anyone really does find it offensive, I'll try to use SF instead. After all, if Ruth can refrain from commenting again on a "boring topic," I should be able to refrain from using a potentially offensive term. And no, it isn't the Deryni series I was trying to recall; the author is Christopher Stasheff. The lead lines of his bio "blurb" in the back of HIS MAJESTY'S WIZARD are: "Early in life,Christopher Stasheff, found a catch in almost every point of Catholic dogma except the main ones, and has been spiritually wandering ever since. He has a lot of doubts about the Church, but only questions about the Faith." Kurtz's use of the church is more as an exoskeleton:Stasheff examines its "guts" and "heart." Card also uses the Church in the Ender series, but he doesn't dwell on it as much as Stasheff. What he does do, is to show it functioning on a different planet. It's interesting, but he keeps it down to a subtheme. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:18:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-97 Glinda: Fairy or Not? The quote from LOST PRINCESS may simply have meant that Glinda could not be killed (as she lives in Oz)--likewise Ojo. --Jeremy AND KIEX, incredibly verbose today, as one can tell KIEX: Am not!! Jeremy: Point taken. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 16:53:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Oz Hi this is Garrett. Has any one here read The Blue Emperor by Henry S. Blossom ? Ruth Berman: I am also getting Oz books over ILL. Nathan DeHoff:Melody Grandy is going to send me a map of the places in 7 Blue Mountains. Garrett Qquuiikk ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 17:09:48 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Oz Digest Hello everyone, I disappeared for awhile there, but I'm back. We had an oh-so-friendly storm here and my computer was injured. . . :-( But, it's back in the running now, and I am slowly catching up on the Digests I accumulated during the past month of being out of commission. I'm glad to see there are some Steeler fans out there! I live in Indiana, so Pittsburgh isn't too far away. I agree w/ Barbara about there being no shrines to Bradshaw, but I think he may have redeemed himself with his introduction of Mike Webster into the Hall of Fame! ScottO. - thanks for the info about the illustrations. Some I knew, some I didn't. Most of the research I've donw prior to this new project was looking at the Oz tales and the place they hold within fairy tale tradition. Now, I think the new research is becoming more a look at Dorothy and how she has been represented throughout the years: does she reinforce specific social values? As for the Pink Floyd fans, there is a web page out there somewhere I ran into once that draws parallels between the MGM movie and Floyd. I don't know the address though. Sorry. Just a note, I'm enjoying the talk about girls versus women and the men who are having trouble finding significant relationships. I agree - start looking at the women. I could never understand these girls that hold these idealistic views and look for someone who is perfect and void of fault. Excuse me, but unless we've all been given a god-like status for the remaining time on Earth, no one is going to be perfect. Also, people look in the wrong places - companionship is probably right under your nose. or, maybe you can get ahold of the Love Magnet! :-) Gordon Birrell - Realist fiction - ugh. Those long passages do drag on. I read _Silas Lapham_ as an undergrad and remember skipping over parts becasue I just couldn't read anymore detail!! I agree though that this style was accepted in the time prior to and during Baum. Plus, as you say about Baum using Realist techniques in the fantasy genre, this type of writing established the realism of Oz. And, for Baum's readers it was a real place. Of course, becasue people can't believe in that kind of stuff anymore, MGM made it into a dream sequence to appeal to adults as well as children. I think that's one thing about childhood I miss - the ability to believe in the unbelievable. Maybe that's why magic can't work in civilized countries - becaseu we've lost our ability to believe in the unbelievable? What's all this talk about t-shirts and badges? Gosh, the things one misses without a computer . . . Eric: In reference to Oz related lesson plans, I would LOVE to help search fro some of those!!!!!! I checked into teaching Oz when I was teaching in VA and (as Christine already brought to our attention), the Oz books are not looked upon highly. I was even told to be careful when discussing them in my classroom becasue people might think I endorse witchcraft!!!??? What is this world coming to . . .by the way, I'm a Calvin and Hobbes fan, too. Check out www.uexpress.com/ups/comics/ch Dave, have you seen _Contact_ yet? I'd go by yourself if necessary. After the first time, it's easier! Alas, I've babbled enough for now, and I've caught up to at least 7/24! More later. Peace & Love, Lisa a.k.a. bompi ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 97 01:02:05 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FAIRIES: Good point, Jeremy. Ozites as a whole are often called "fairy people" by virture of being immortal...By that definition, even Dorothy and the Wizard are fairies! If you look at my "Scale of Magic" in the FAQ, though, I do include "Magic-less Immortals" (i.e. Ozites) on the lowest rung. CONTACT: Thanks for mentioning _Contact_, Lisa...I haven't seen it yet...I may give in and go alone but I really hate to...If only I knew more people (offline) who were capable of human thought! Trying not to lament -- -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 18, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 09:22:11 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 8/17 Digest, Tyler Jones's logical analysis of the _Glinda_ statement is correct. If the statement is true, Glinda cannot be a fairy. Also, Garrett asks, I did, quite some time ago, and remember enjoying it. I rather liked the Blue Emperor's Mug and bought my own anthropomorphic mug soon after. Lisa Bompiani writes, According to the mythologies I've seen, even the gods are not perfect -- some, far from it. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 06:34:37 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Lisa a.k.a. bompi, > I think that's one thing about childhood I miss - the ability > to believe in the unbelievable. It seems to me that the common concept, "a willing suspension of disbelief", is what allows us to enjoy Oz (and other literature) so much. As far as the ability to believe the unbelievable, a great number of adults apparently have that capacity. Observe the number of Reaganites and conservatives amongst us :-). Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:31:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Nathan: You say, "At the end of _Emerald City_, Ozma herself tells the Nome King that his name is Roquat."-- Perhaps the Nome King changed his name out of sheer perversity . . . (Just like a Nome, too!) Bob Spark: Yikes! Glad you recovered! (and your little files too! :-) ) Tyler and others: However cozy you may feel, this is Jeremy Steadman and KIEX signing off. KIEX: Cute, Jeremy, cute. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:33:50 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 I don't know why everyone is still so determined to throw dictionaries at kids. They aren't any sort of magic pill that turns a poor reader into a good one. I pretty flatly refused to have anything to do with the nasty things and despised the sort of "I know, but I won't tell YOU" attitude of the people whose stock answer was always "look it up in the dictionary". All that treatment ever taught me was that the people who claimed to be in charge were a bunch of snotty bastards who wouldn't give me the time of day if they didn't absolutely have to, and were more than willing to rub my nose in it. It deffinitely didn't give me any love of learning. Come on, people! The STORY is more important than the WORDS. Any kid with halfway opperative reasoning faciulities will figure out what an unfamiliar word means from the context. You don't need to dumb a story down for kids to enjoy it. If I forgot myself enough to ask one of those clowns what a word meant, it wans't because I deeply cared about the ANSWER, it was because the teacher was THERE. It was a matter of trust, not of humble need for instruction. Sheesh. There is deffinitely a biblical mixed message as to the practice of usery, in the new testiment at any rate. On one hand we have Jesus driving the money-lenders out of the temple, and on the other hand, in his parable of the good and the lazy servants, the master berates the servant who simply horded the talent entrusted to him with the charge that he might at least have turned it over to the userers and let it earn some interest. I guess it comes down to "a place for everything and everything in its place." Yeah, the colorful verbs for forms of speech appeal more to children than adults. David Hulan should be back next week. He had an out-of-state consultant job come up all of a sudden and should be home by this weekend (iirc). ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 12:37:16, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Bear wrote: > I don't find it boring.> I agree. Some subjects are more exciting to different people. If others are bored with a subject, they may skip over it. Bob Spark wrote: >I, for one, would be delighted to have an old bum, or anyone else, steal my neighbor's dog :-).> Most of would, but I wouldn't feel the same way if the dog were my daughter's. :-) Tyler wrote: >Also, Glinda consistently seems to work magic differently than Ozma or Polychrome.> I view Glinda, and the wizard for that matter, as magicians. Isn't that what a sorceress is? Does Glinda have a complete history with Oz? What is her background? Usury: I did a very quick study of the scriptures to see what the law was concerning "usury". IMHO, it seems that the law was first intended (in Exodus) to protect poor people. It was warning people not to take unfair advantage of those who could not afford the usury. It later came to say (in Leviticus) that no one should take out a usury upon his brother (meaning Israelite). This seems to be a very Ozzy concept in that you should lend something to someone, with out expecting even the principle back, never mind the interest. The new testament talks about interest more, and seems to allow it. In Jesus' parable about the talents, the land owner chastised the lazy servant for burying his talent. He said that even if he only put it into the bank, he would have at least gained interest. When Jesus was asked about taxes, he said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's,(taxes) and unto God what is God's. In a parallel you could also say render unto the bank's what is the bank's (interest). IMHO it was never really prohibited, but frowned upon because it made someone else's life miserable, and made the lender look greedy. (This was just a little study. Sorry for the length. You know how long winded preachers can be. :-) ) Lisa wrote: >I'm glad to see there are some Steeler fans out there! There are also (at least one, anyway) some Patriot fans! :-) Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 14:58:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christine R. Gray" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 lisa: I just read your mention of teaching Oz. Would this be on the college level? I have taught Frankenstein and Alice in Wonderland to college sophomores, as well as Jekyl and Hyde. I would love to teach the Wizard of Oz--as you, no doubt, know, there is much there in symbolism and body-mind-spirit and the economic status of the US at that time, and Jungian psychology. Have you or has anyone on the list ever taught Oz in a college course? Also, Dave, would you post a list of web sties of OZ materials, your and other members? thanks, christine china@wam.umd.edu ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:36:10 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Robin: >I *liked* those colorful verbs as a kid! Now, however, writers are taught to shy away from too much of that and to rely more on "said" than before (although not to rely on it exclusively). Your preferences and mine may be indicative of a generation gap. Dunno.< I like those colorful verbs, too--when, as you pointed out, they're not overused. My problem was not that she used the colorful "said" substitutes at all, but that she seemed to overuse them. I might use "shrilled" myself if a character really is shrieking hysterically. But only the most unfortunate Flutterbudgets are hysterical all the time. :-) Maybe you liked the colorful verbs as a child 'cause children are more naturally noisy than adults? I came to the Thompson books (and many of Baum's) as an adult, so that may have colored my view of her use of verbs. However, I don't hesitate to attach an adverb or use a more colorful verb if I imagine dialogue being said in a different tone of voice than expected. And it certainly is possible to talk whilst chuckling, laughing, sighing, which is why I don't agree with authors who would have us avoid: "Yes!" he chuckled, "Oh, no!" she laughed, "I'm tired," sighed Beth. *All* "saids" and no "shrilled," "choked", "gulped", "sighed", "laughed", etc would make for boring reading! :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:35:57 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Lisa: >I could never understand these girls that hold these idealistic views and look for someone who is perfect and void of fault. I can., When a child & to some extent as a teenager, I used to think that perfection was possible. And it takes some years, maturity and experience to find out what's possible in real life & what isn't. Thus the recommendation for guys to look at women rather than girls. :-) . Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 17:35:35 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Tyler: >It seems to me that the desire to believe that Glinda is a fairy derives from a wish to link her more closely with Oz itself. Oz is a fairyland and Ozma is a fairy. Therefore, Glinda should be one too. Some people have also referred to the inhabitants of Oz in general as fairies. Despite the Wizard's comments, it doesn't really add up, though.< This confusion is one reason I came up with the idea that Glinda was born a mortal, and was awarded a fairyhood later in life. This, in theory, grants her considerable magical powers, but not whatever genes fairies may have that are different from ordinary mortals. :-) For that matter, it has been pointed out that Ozma, in "Tin Woodman," works magic with magical appliances (potions, kettles, etc.) very much like a sorceress or witch. The Wiz also says Glinda & Ozma cannot be destroyed, which is not true of ordinary Ozites. In theory, lances, spears, etc, won't kill Ojo, but if he's eaten by a wild Choggenmugger, that's the end of him. Apparently Glinda has something extra in the way of fairyhood that other Ozites don't have--but I also agree she seems to be different from official 100% certified fairies, too. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 18:16:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Garrett: I've read THE BLUE EMPEROR, and so has Steve...and probably quite a few others. It is one of the better pastiches on Oz, although I don't like its illustrations. It's also one of the earliest ones, if not *the* earliest one, to make its way into many hands since Henry published it himself and sold it at conventions. He's living in Austin, TX, and is working on another book. MAGIC: Whoever it is/was who asked, have you tried ordering it from IWOC? we have a large number of DelRey books and may have MAGIC in stock. Worth a try. GAZETTE: It's gonna be a good issue, folks, but poor Jane really had to scramble to get it filled. Please encourage your kids to write and/or draw for it. It's such a thrill for a youngster to see his/her work in print. It's also a great motivator. What a shame that more people aren't taking advantage of it. Speaking of which...anyone know who's got the fiction from the Oz Research Tables? I'd like to read it and pick stories for OZIANA '98. And, if you have something you'd like to submit to OZIANA, please do so. I have nothing for the issue yet, and that makes me nervous. TYLER: The more I read "A Generic Oz Story," the more I like it. You really did a good job of nailing it without going overboard. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:52:47 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Nathan: You are correct in saying that only stories from actual books are in the HACC. Note that Eric Shanower's five boks are in the HACC, since I in my infinite wisdom :-) have ruled that Graphic Novels count as books. As for _Umbrella Island_, well, hm... (ahem), er, you know... Bob: Thanks for the tip, but I have never, do not, nor will ever compress my hard drive. Joel: That's one reason that I do as David Hulan does: just get a reading copy and be happy with it. Garrett (or is that Susan?) Oh, yes, I have read _THe Blue Emperor of Oz_ and I greatly enjoyed it, not only for the story itself, but for the historical info about Ozroar. At the time, I was under the impression that author Henry Blossom was dead, but I have since spoken with him. Interestingly, he did not intend for his story to be an historical revelation, although he aprpeciated the fact that I found it so. Lisa: Never been to Pittsburgh (Philly once), but am a Steeler-for-life. Baum has referred to Dorothy's simple and pure nature as well as her kindness. Also, in _Tin Woodman_ she says "it's wicked to be wasteful". At least in Baum, she did represent some traditional social values. It's late, though, and I can't cudgel my brain for anything beyond that. Good idea about the Love Magnet. I'll sneak in to the Emerald City... Dave: I've seen two movies solo in my life. The second one, "Face/Off" was a pretty decent experience. The first time (I forget which movie) was a nightmare. I was extremely self-conscious about being alone, but figured I would be safe once I got into the darkness of the theatre. No such luck. I was in the middle of my row. The rest of my row, plus two rows in front of me and two rows back, was empty. I felt like there was a giant spotlight on me. Then... Someone behind me #1: Hey! Look at that guy! Someone behind me #2: Who? S #1: That guy up there! The one who's all alone. That's Tyler Jones! I know that guy! To this day, I don't know who that was, and I dare not ask! :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:02:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron S. Adelman" Subject: Misc thingies, some of which may be related to Oz 1) Earl, (and you were asking for it,) please review your Hebrew Bible. Please notice that a) the prohibition of lending at interest is to another Jew. Lending at interest to a non-Jew is specifically permitted. b) Slavery is hamstrung by a number of laws, not the least of which is that a runaway slave may not be returned to his/her master and must be given refuge. Also please note that since morality is a matter of opinion, you cannot claim with objectivity--except within a particular moral system--that anything is moral or immoral (or any arbitrary moral shade of grey). As such, claiming that God is wrong within His/Her own moral system is invalid; since God created the system, He/She has the right to structure it any way He/She wants, regardless of how anyone else likes it. You may criticize Him/Her on what you perceive as inconsistencies, but you cannot on any objective basis call Him/Her wrong within his own system unless He/She violates it. Note: If you (or anyone else) care to continue this discussion, please E-mail me privately. 2) While technically I would reserve the term 'fairy' for the species which Lurline and Roquat/Ruggedo belong to, apparently the word has come to be used for the quasi-immortal as well, hence the confusion over whether Glinda (and other Ozites as well) is a fairy. Similarly, the term 'star' may have become overapplied to floating atmospheric objects, usually crystalline. Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman adelman@ymail.yu.edu North Antozian Systems and The Martian Empire ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Haldehoff@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Tyler: The King of the Fairy Beavers states that Glinda is a fairy (in _Shaggy Man_), but he probably knows even less than the Wizard on that subject. I also overuse certain words sometimes. My mother was reading one of my Oz stories, and she mentioned that I used the word "expansive" frequently. Robin: I also liked the variety of words that Thompson used to describe speaking, rather than just using "said" all the time. Briefly, Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 97 00:25:15 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things RELIGION: I hate to look like the Big Bad Censor, but I think this debate over Religion is straying a bit too far from Ozziness, so this is the last Digest in which I will post messages in that thread...Henceforth, I ask that the debate be continued by private E-mail... WEB PAGES: Christine wrote: >Also, Dave, would you post a list of web sties of OZ materials, your and >other members? One thing I don't have is a definitive list of Ozzy Web pages...For a start see section 3.1 of the Ozzy Digest FAQ. Maybe others on the Digest can help... YE SHALL HAVE LIFE SORT-OF-EVERLASTING...: Aaron wrote: > ... the word ["Fairy"] has come to be used for the quasi-immortal as well Jellia: How can someone be a "quasi-immortal"? -- It's like a politician who says, "This is my final decision, for the time being..." :) DICTIONARIES: JOdel@aol.com wrote: >I don't know why everyone is still so determined to throw dictionaries at >kids. They aren't any sort of magic pill that turns a poor reader into a good >one. I pretty flatly refused to have anything to do with the nasty things and >despised the sort of "I know, but I won't tell YOU" attitude of the people >whose stock answer was always "look it up in the dictionary". Jellia: Agreed! The Wogglebug is *always* using hard words, and when we ask him what on Nerrum he means, he says, "Look it up!" And then he gets mad when we announce to him that the dictionary doesn't *have* the word "Hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian"! Jack P.: I've always had trouble with dictionaries...I once took three days vainly trying to find the word "zoology"...Then the Scarecrow explained to me that the dictionary is in alphabetical order! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 19, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:09:33 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Something Fishy To JOdel on the effort to teach the children to use dictionaries: Give a man a fish and he eats once; teach the man to fish and he eats all the rest of his life. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 05:09:16 -0700 From: Robert Schroeder Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 8/18 Well, I have decided that now is the time for me to take the plunge and begin to read _OZ_ rather than to just be satisfied with watching Judy Garland have all the fun. But I have a question....I know the best place to start is usually at the beginning, but there have been several other series of books that made better sense when you started in the middle and then worked out. Any suggestions? Dictionaries: What? You hate dictionaires? Oh, I'm just the opposite (I know, my spelling is horrible, but I know what the word means!) When I was in grade school (sooooo many years ago) the dictionary was the HUGE book that occupied its own special stand. And it stood in front of the class, looking mysterious, inviting me to thumb through its pages. I use to love to be told to "look it up"...after all, to me, being able to figure it all out by myself was a sure sign that I was growing up. Sadly, the years have passed and I thought I knew everything, that is until I turned forty. Now, I still lean on the dictionary, mostly just to understand what the lyrics of some of today's music is all about. And yes JOdel, the story is more important than the words, but with out the words, there is no point to having a story. (Someone HELP me! I'm beginning to sound like my high school english teacher! And I hated high school english class!) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:18:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Haldehoff@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-97 Joyce: I partially agree with your statements on dictionaries. I was also annoyed at teachers who told me to look words up in the dictionary, rather than defining them themselves. On the other hand, when there is no teacher (or parent, etc.) around, a dictionary can be a useful tool. IMHO, it is important for people (both children and adults) to expand their vocabularies, but how it is done is not quite so important as how much is learned. Aaron: In _Ozma_, Tik-Tok (I think) says that the Nomes are Rock Fairies, but, in _Emerald City_, Ozma tells Roquat that Nomes are Elves. I get your point about the generic use of the word "fairy," however. Christine: My web page (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/) has some Oz stuff, and links to other Ozzy pages. Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:59:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-97 I wrote a long response to last Thursday's digest, but my computer mail system froze up and I was unable to send it, so you are all spared my comments on usury and many other subjects. JOdel, It was money *changers* not money *lenders* that Jesus threw out to the Temple. Money changing was a neat scam brought about about that secular Roman money could not be used in the holy place. Earl Abbe, I did not mean to be ambiguous when I said they Aberdeen Festival tried to *cover* the genocide editorials. Tehy tried to discuss them thouroughly, not to cover them up. Everything in the 1939 film shows that the film makers considered th story taking place at the current time (1939) not 40 years earlier. The incubator, the style of the bicycle, the clothing of all the Kansas characters was suitable for 1939. On the other hand, RTO is clearly a period piece. It is taking place in 1899-1900. There are direct references to the new century etc. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:33:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Oz Hi this is garrett. Now I'm wondering if Henry Blossom is still selling the blue emperor? and where can I contact him at? Dave:What does Hippopotomonstrosesquipedalin mean ? Tyler : It's Garrett writing from Susans machine. does anyone own or know a library where I can get Who's Who ,What's What and Wheres Where in Oz ?Does it exist or am I making this up. garrett "I will return with all the tresures of Oh's" Strut of Strat ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 09:53:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz request: Frank Baum estate (fwd) Digesters: Another question in my inbox I couldn't satisfactorily answer (I know about the Baum Trust, but not who to contact in regards to it). If anyone can answer Mr. Fleming, please respond to him directly, not to the "Digest." --Eric Gjovaag (who, I might add, you also need to contact directly) ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 11:25:33 -0400 From: Stephen Fleming Subject: Frank Baum estate Dear Eric, I am really enjoying your Oz website! I have a question for you. Do you know who handles the estate of L. Frank baum? Thanks for you help. Stephen Fleming Corporate Librarian HarperCollins Publishers ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:42:49 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello - I caught up! Sometimes I even amaze myself! Abbe, you're right, the myhtological gods aren't perfect, and God can't be either if man was created in his image. Gosh, what a scary thought. . . not even God can be considered perfect! Bob Spark - I'll go along with the comment about R'nites and conservatives! Jodel - dictionaries are overrated, I agree. I never told my students to look it up if I could speel a word for them, or if they wanted to know what a word meant. That's bull. What gets on my nereves are those imbeciles that think that becasue I'm an English teacher/major I have memorized all the versions and spellings of every %&($# word in the language! Hello, but last time I checked Dictionary 101 wasn't a required course! :-) The Counterculture talk in reference to Moore's book sent thoughts of Postmodern theory spiraling through my head. Since I haven't read the book, I don't know if the ideas of pastiche associated with the theory fit. It may be worth checking out. . . Christine, no, I didn't teach on a college level; I would hope that college level admin would be more open to topics. I taught 8th grade in VA. The kids knew of my interest in Oz and always wanted to talk about the tale, etc. However, as I mentioned that was a no-no. We weren't even allowed to talk about Halloween or wear costumes because of the inherent witchcraft! I'd be very interested, as I said before, in writing/creating some sort of lesson for it, maybe even on a larger scale a course in fairy tales. I have done a lot of research and writing about Oz for courses, but never taught a course on it. I took a class in Proletarian Literature/radical literature in the 30's, and with all of this talk about communism, I'm wondering if it could have been included! BTW, for an article relating Oz to mythic structure read Edward W. Hudlin "The mythology of _Oz_; An Interpretation," _Papers on Language and Literature_, v25, Fall 1989. Good Point Melody, but I guess I just never looked for perfection becasue I was afraid someone would expect it from me! Tyler! Don't scare Dave away from the movies! :-) Well, until next time, and I'll try to finish the questionnaire, too! Peace & Love, Lisa Bompiani ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:00:08 -0600 From: Richard_Tuerk@tamu-commerce.edu (Richard Tuerk) Subject: Teaching Oz Books on a College Level Christine R. Gray asked on 08-17-97: > >Have you or has anyone on the list ever taught Oz in >a college course? > I've taught _The Wizard of Oz_ a number of times in college-level children's literature courses and in college-level courses on the American novel. I've also taught _The Wizard of Oz_ and _The Land of Oz_ in graduate courses in children's literature. Last spring, I did _The Wizard of Oz_ in a graduate course in American literary realism (the course focuses on the period of realism, not on realistic fiction). One summer I taught _The Wizard of Oz_, _The Land of Oz_, _Ozma of Oz_, and _The Emerald City of Oz_ in a major authors course that covered Mark Twain and L. Frank Baum. In all cases, I've received excellent responses from the students, most of whom know only the 1939 movie version of _The Wizard of Oz_. Rich Tuerk ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 15:14:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-97 JOdel:>>I don't know why everyone is still so determined to throw dictionaries at kids...>> No one is determined to do that, literally or figuratively. Nor do we all use the snotty approach you describe in having a kid look something up for him/herself. Many of us give a kid the beginning of the spelling if needed (I pity the weak speller here) and help the kid "plug" the definition into the sentence. You must have had some dreadful teachers to have such a belligerent attitude about this. All good teachers (and parents are the most important of these) urge a youngster to use context clues, but sometimes even the best readers need to use a dictionary. I know *I* do and, frankly, I'm a helluva good reader. Readers need to learn how to become independent, without running to Mom, Dad, or any other teacher. The dictionary is one of many tools needed to establish that independence. Grammar is another. Love of reading is another "tool," the strongest of all. I love reading and, if I don't know a word, chances are I'll look it up just to learn it, even if I could understand the sentence without it. <> I'm probably not the only one whose immediate reaction here is "Yeah, but you can't understand the STORY without understanding most of the WORDS. I'm glad you have such faith in young reasoning ability. I've been teaching since 1966. Kids no longer have the really good context clue skills they used to. They're not less intelligent, but they *are* less motivated to work for a meaning. And no,I don't want to "dumb down" books. I want to "smarten up" parents and get them to work with their kids, to cuddle with them, to figure out incentive programs for reading, etc. Melody: I know you use good verbs. I've read your writing, remember?! Probably, as you point out, your reaction was greatly influenced by your having been an adult when you first read RPT. BOCF: Would you guys like a quiz on books #1-5? One on E.CITY? One on 1-6,instead? None at all? Tyler: I like solo movies. No one to interrupt my train of thought. One of the few times I don't have to interact with people, and I find that very relaxing. BUT, I usually see a comedy with a friend: funnier that way, since laughter is very much a social phenomenon. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 18:40:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-97 Glinda as sorceress/magician, not fairy: That sounds closer to the truth. Either the family cat did her thing with my tongue today again, or I have less to say today, or the Digest was a lot shorter than usual--which is fine (as time is money, they say. Anyway, on Saturday I return to school, where this time I'll have an Internet connection in my room--and will be free of AOL!! :-) :-) :-) I may be free of Kiex as well; we'll just have to see how well she follows me . . . KIEX: I heard that! Until next time, Jeremy Steadman AND KIEX!!! ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:27:17 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Hi, Thanks to all for helping me out with both Ozma's history and Glinda's being a fairy or not. I now have only one more question. I have now found out that Ozma's mom was Ozette, a fairy. Was she the queen of Oz, if she wasn't who was she, and if she was why did she not rule Oz after Pastoria was deposed of? One more question. Ss far as I know, the Neill illustrations in all Oz books by L. Frank Baum are public domain. Am I right? Thanks Christene: First of all, be sure to check out Jim Whitcomb's links page (at http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/oz-links.htm). It has more links than any other page I know of. Second, you can go to the Oz Web Ring list page. This has a few sites that are not available on a links page. The address is http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsites;list -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:36:53 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-97 JOdel Wow! You must really have run into > a bunch of snotty bastards to have given you this tremendous resentment of dictionaries. Who did your childhood training, the penal system? A dictionary is a tool, nothing more. I find it indispensable, but I have no ingrained prejudices against it. If the dictionary was introduced to you in that manner I don't wonder that you derived no love of learning that way. > Come on, people! The STORY is more important than the WORDS. I can't agree with you on this one. If it were correct there would be no reason to actually read Shakespeare, just Cliff's Notes. We admire authors for their use of language, words, not the story alone. I forget the quote but someone has said that there are only a limited amount of plots, while the ways of retelling them are infinite. Everyone, About the current discussion on the use of magic by fairies, sorcerers (and sorceresses), also wizards, witches, adepts, etc. ,etc., etc. Is there something in FAQ's somewhere that defined these terms? I have looked with no success. I have seen the list of relative magical powers, but am looking for something more (particularly as it applies to OZ). Tyler, > Thanks for the tip, but I have never, do not, nor will ever compress my > hard drive. You know, everyone that I talk to says the same thing. If I talk to anyone else, I will repeat it. However, I did not have the benefit of all this knowledge prior to compressing the damned thing. All I had was a copy of Microsoft Plus! with the option of doing so and it sounded like a good idea to me. Dave Hardenbrook, > I hate to look like the Big Bad Censor Believe me, you don't seem like a Big Bad anything to me. You are just doing a magnificent job of moderating the _Digest_, (you know: all [extraneous] things in moderation). When there is an opening in the future for the position of Secretary-General of the United Nations I will recommend you :-) . ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 19:42:28 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Lisa >Maybe that's why magic can't work in civilized countries - becaseu we've lost our ability to believe in the unbelievable? "I daresay you haven't had much practice, " said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." :) Dave >If only I knew more people (offline) who were capable of human thought! Could you explain this lonely comment? &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Sparky >As far as the ability to believe the unbelievable, a great number of adults apparently have that capacity. Observe the number of Reaganites and conservatives amongst us :-). Also observe the Communists, Socialists, Liberals of all stripes and even Clintonites among us. This demonstrates that there are those willing to suspend critical thought processes and believe even more unbelievable things. :) :) JOdel - Curious? How can you enjoy a passage where you don't know the meaning of some of the words? I guess I have never thought of a dictionary as a punishment. More as a wise friend that can help me broaden my knowledge. Aaron >Also please note that since morality is a matter of opinion..... Dave >I hate to look like the Big Bad Censor.... I see it is Dave's opinion that discussions of religion and morality have no place in Oz, or at least this Digest. I wish you would rethink this position. You don't choose to CENSOR our political sniping, in which some of us take great joy. Why religion? You have run the Digest all this time without resorting to CENSORSHIP. If you start, where are you going to stop? If you are still accepting feedback, Your Grace, I would like to register a resounding NO CENSORSHIP vote. Freely Speaking, Bear (:<) [Hoping to avoid censorship.] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 23:35:53 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Dave: I liked your "Planet Ozzywood" idea and have another addition for it. On the east coast, possibly in Connecicut or Rhode Island (or maybe even the "Lost" state of Franklin, that is not lost in Nerrum), there is a small town that, nevertheless, boasts an International Airport, a riverfront, a gorge, a national park, people with yellow skin who have very weird hairstyles and such citizens as Homer Simpson. Also, somewhere in Texas, two complete idiots are watching videos courtesy of a cable system that has at least a dozen music stations. Earl: We discussed that question in philosophy once. Several Greek texts, in talking about morality, were very clear on the "fact" that many people lived morally correct lives when the gods were watching, but did all manner of unspeakable things when Zeus's back was turned. One student asked how could this be when the gods knew all, and I pointed out that the Greek gods were not omnipotent, as the Christian God, but very human like, with all of our passions and faults, magnified to godly proportions. Joyce: Your statement reminds me of the Assistants who were supposed to "help" us ignorant students in the Engineering lab. Their top four responses to requests for help, in no particular order. 1. It's in the book 2. I'm not supposed to tell you that 3. You should know that already 4. Figure it out for yourself. Bob: I suppose that idea was to protect people from the con men out there charging too much interest. Mr. Burns: Now before I loan you the money, are you familiar with our state's stringent usury laws? Homer: Uuuuuuusery? Mr. Burns: Heavens to Betsy! I must have just made up a word that doesn't exist. Sign here, please. Magic Magic everywhere and not a spell to cast: A long time ago, we had an interesting discussion on magic. Specifically, we were examining if there was a real difference between magicians, witches, wizards, sorcerers, fairies and so on. Our conclusions seemed to be this. Magic is a ubiquitous and general power that is everywhere. Using Dave's "MAgic of Everything", raw magical power is out htere, simply waiting to be tapped. This magic can be harnessed in a number of different ways (wishing pills, belts, wands, etc.) and used in different ways (transformations, teleportation, creating things, etc.) IMHO, the different titles are not all that indicative of a person's strength or ability. In general, some titles seem to go with certain types of magic. Wizards seem to use engineering based (Waddy and the Wizard), Witches seem to cast mostly transformation magic, and so on. Most of the time, though, people practice a number of different types of magic, and their titles are usually self-imposed, given by the surrounding people, or culturally based. For example, most women who practice magic tend to be called witches. Even Glinda was called a witch for a number of years, probably because the common people did not know enough about magic to be able to accurately classify her. The one exception seems to be fairies. Their magic apparantly comes from within. THey are born with it (with the possible exception of Polychrome, who probably just never needed to use her natural talents until recently). Others, such as the Wizard, need to study and practice. IMHO, whether you call yourself a magician, wizard, sorcerer(ess), witch Yookoohoo, it's all the same in the end. It's just a matter of how you use the magic and what you do with it, except for fairies. Glinda has apparantly been ruling in the south for a long time. Somewhere (I forget which book), she celebrates her 100th anniversary of ruling in the south. That may be a symbolic number. Evidence seems to indicate that she defeated the WWSouth less than 100 years before RPT. Anyhow, in the Oz books to date, she just lives in her palace and helps to protect Oz. Aside from that, we don't know much about her past. Christine: I don't know about teaching, but our own Gili was a student in a course about Oz. It was not quite what it seemed, though. As her about it one day. If you go to Eric Gjovaag's home page, you will get more Ozzy links than you can shake a stick at. http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ Robin: Thanks for your wonderful words on "Ozia Generica". Can I get my hands on a copy of that review who referred to it as "corrosive satire"? :-) Aaron: I believe that Baum said the Nomes were Rock Fairies. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that there is more than one type of fairy. Nathan: As you say, It's probably the case to anybody from the countries surrounding Oz that any magic worker (or even any person) from Oz would be considered a fairy. Glinda, after all, leaves Oz even less than Ozma, and only hearsy and gossip would reach outside Oz about her. Ironically, we of the outer world probably know more about Oz than their nearest neighbors. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 23:14:29 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things CENSORSHIP: I wrote: >I hate to look like the Big Bad Censor.... Aujah: Sorry Dave, but that's *exactly* what you look like! Well, I have had such a mass of private irate E-mail sent to me (including some from Ozma's court), that I have decided to let democracy reign and I hereby retract my ban on the Religious thread; indeed I vow that I shall never again ban anything on the Digest that isn't a four-letter word. Jellia: So in return for Dave's motion against censorship, could everyone keep their discussions civil and courteous...PLEASE??!! Ozma: They will, Jellia; most of them do already anyway! BIG WORDS: Garrett wrote: >Dave:What does Hippopotomonstrosesquipedalin mean ? It is an adjective meaning "Of or pertaining to the usage of a very long word." (Source: _Mrs Byrne's Dictionary_ by Josefa H. Byrne.) THE OZZY PLANET: Thank you Tyler for some additional denizens of Nerrum... "LOOK IT UP"!: Tyler wrote: >4. Figure it out for yourself. This is the response I got repeatedly from my Junior College Data Structures Programming teacher, who wasn't big on helping his students grasp difficult concepts...I have "honored" him in _Locasta_ as a pirate who makes trouble for Wogglebug College and other institutes of "painless learning"... GLINDA: Tyler wrote: >Glinda has apparantly been ruling in the south for a long time. Somewhere >(I forget which book), she celebrates her 100th anniversary of ruling in >the south. That may be a symbolic number. Was it _Wicked Witch of Oz_? This is the book that we *know* must have occured 100 yrs. after the defeat of Singra, unless: A) Singra was not *the* WWS (which others have conjectured), or B) The 100-year clock was slow ( which *I* conjecture... :) ). A KIND WORD: Bob Spark wrote: > Believe me, you don't seem like a Big Bad anything to me. You are >just doing a magnificent job of moderating the _Digest_, (you know: all >[extraneous] things in moderation). When there is an opening in the >future for the position of Secretary-General of the United Nations I >will recommend you :-) Thank you for the vote of confidence. :) TO KNOW OZ...: Tyler wrote: >Ironically, we of the outer world probably know more about Oz than their >nearest neighbors. Audah: Thanks to the miracle of modern technology, including Shaggy's wireless telegraph... Aurah: *And* our magical steam-powered Internet Service Provider! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 20, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 06:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: Captain Nemo Subject: Oz Questionaire Hi Friends! Questionaire answers: ====================================================================== NAME: Bruce Gray. E-Mail: lbrucegray@rica.net. Date of Birth: 2/2/54. Residence: Harrisonburg, Virginia. Profession: Account Clerk. Level of Education: Lots of college - no degree (yet :->). Age of Discovery: child. How Discovered: 1939 movie. How found Digest: old subscriber to -last- newsletter. (Thanks Dave! :->) OZ Organizations: none (yet). Primary Interest: Science fiction and fantasy. Primary OZ interest: Glinda. How Many FF Books read: 22. I'd like to own the rest - someday. Non-FF Oz books read: 2 - Dorothy of Oz, (Don't even -ask- how I got this.... :->) and Barnstormer in Oz. Non-Oz Baum books: 2 - I -like- Magical Monarch of Mo. Non-Oz Thompson: 0. Current Oz projects: Fantasy role-playing game based on Oz. Also working on series of Oz books. (isn't everyone on this list? :-> ) Main Oz concentration: the lay of the land (maps and stuff like that). MOPPeTs: I wish we could get together somehow and give our local libraries copies of the FF. (I'm working on this personally - I found a copy of WWO (the BoW edition) at a yard sale and gave it to the local Children's librarian. OZ web page: http://206.107.180.50:80/CaptainNemo/link/ozwizard.htm (I'm working on more). ================================================================ Special note to Dave: Please change my e-mail to: lbrucegray@rica.net We just went to a new e-mail server that is case-sensitive and cannot use capital letters anymore :-< Hope to hear from you soon! Bruce lbrucegray@rica.net ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 13:57:51 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 Hi everyone. I just returned from a pleasant (although FAR too short) vacation on Lake Michigan, in Saugatuck. After getting about 2 hours home, I recalled that Ozcot was once up in those woods somewhere. Does anyone know if it still standing? Also, I saw two remarkable Oz items for sale in Saugatuck. The first was a Tin man statue. Made in Mexico, it stands approximatley 12 inches tall. It has a great look to it, that neither resembles MGM or Neill characters. At $45, I passed, though. The second was a "foot" stool that had two sets of legs and a base. The legs were knobby-kneed and wore white ankle socks and ruby slippers. The base was blue & white gingham (painted). It was SO funny!! $70 (passed that one, too) ((I settled for a great ice cream cone for $2.25, though.)) Has anyone ever been to this area of Michigan before? My first time, but hopefuly not my last. Met many "friends of Dorothy" there. Cheers, Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 06:56:44 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 Robin, Excellent dissertation on JOdel's (sounds like superman's father) complaints. I have passed it on to my sister who teaches high school. We discussed the issue last night and she said that an increasing portion of the teenage population nowadays is unwilling to "dig" for answers, that they want things handed to them. Problem solving is not emphasized. She (and I) have no immediate reason for this phenomenon, but fear for the future. Not only will these people be running things, but they will not be able to feel the delight that accompanies discovery. I just reread what I have written and it strikes me that I am approaching geezerhood. I think that I will welcome that status with open arms. Here's another vote for attending movies solo. I don't feel any disapproval from the others there, I just resent the level of conversation in the audience and the fact that the floors are sticky. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:04:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Oz This is Garrett Name:Garrett Perryman Birthdate:September 7 1984 Home: Princeton NJ (not really but close) Profession:Student Level of Education: 8th grade Age I found Oz : 9 How did you find out about Oz:? How did you find out about digest:? Interest book or moive? Book , dont like moive Books read in FF ? all Non FF:10 Baum non-oz :8 Thompson Non-oz : 1 Project:My Map Main Oz Interest:Books Books MoPpEtTs: Oz people can chose when they stop aging. The minute a book is published the places mentioned become part of Oz So thats why making a map. Garrett "A pile of meat noses might fill me up for once" Hungry Tiger ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 09:25:17 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Publication -- "Dear Poppa: The World War II Berman Family Letters," compiled by Ruth Berman and edited by historian Judy Barrett Litoff has just been published by the Minnesota Historical Society Press. It's a selection of about a third of the letters written by my parents and older brothers and sister while my father was overseas. The children's long letters give a look into children's imagination that isn't usually available, being more direct and immediate than a contemporary adult describing from outside or a grown-up adult later on rememberfing can give. 317 pages; cloth, ISBN 0-87351-357-6, $29.95; paper, ISBN 0-87351-358-4, $15.95. Postage $3.00 first book, $.50 each additional book. Minnesota Historical Society Press, Order Dept, 345 Kellogg Blvd W, St. Paul MN 55102-1906. (If you think it sounds interesting but not as an individual purchase -- you could ask a local library to get it in?) Steve Teller: I hope to attend Sally Roesch Wagner's talk, and will plan to let her know how Aberdeen Festival went. Tyler Jones: You could get a copy of "Out of the woods" from David Bratman, I expect. His e-mail address is d.bratman@genie.geis.com Robin Olderman: If you don't get submissions for "Oziana" maybe an interesting alternative would be to reprint some rarity. For instance, considering the earlier discussion of what a pity it is that Books of Wonder didn't think it was economically feasible to reprint "Dot and Tot" and "Yew" with the original illos because of the expense of color -- how about a selection of color illos (not the vignettes, but the full-pagers) from one or other of those? I don't know how the prices run on color printing, but if it cost about four times as much to run color as to run b&w, and you did an issue one-fourth the usual size, it would come out even in costs? Or another possibility would be to reprint Baum's "Prince Silverwings" scenario in combination with one or two of the Edith Ogden Harrison fairytales it was based on. (Michael Riley reprinted the scenario as one of his limited-print-run Panami Books a good many years back, but I should think that edition is long out of print.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 15:53:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-97 Scott O.: The farm in the MGM film is usually said to be a typical one of the dust-bowl period. I generallly only use the term "Sci-Fi" in front of "comedy" when describing such films as _Kamillions_, Bill & Ted_, etc. When Desmon goes back to his own dimension, all of his michevious and sometimes seemingly deadly pranks are reverse but one Kafkaesque one. Could this be a reference to JBTO? Lisa: at 21, aren't I too young to be looking for women? Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:22:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Perryman Subject: Oz Anyone who has a map the surronding Oz lands notices a strip of land on the north its bordered by Merryland on the south Scowleyow and on the west by desert it has no name .Please can anyone give me a name for it. The Wicked King Scowleyow will conquer Oz . Ha Ha Ha Garrett ------ | ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 18:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: "Estelle E. Klein" Subject: money in oz There was a cartoon in a local throw-away paper here in Colorado... across the top it read "MONEY WOES IN OZ"-- the cartoon had Dorothy,Toto, Scarecrow and Lion in front of a Can Bank... ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 07:28:43 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 Robin, Me again. I apologize for the second post. The idea of a quiz sounds interesting. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:43:02 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff All: As a 33 old newbie, I'm giving you my final Baum Oz list ratings :-) I've just finished book 15 by RPT and have read a few non FF books that I will include here. I'm pausing in the reading now until I receive Melody's DISENCHANTED PRINCESS from Buckethead. REVISED RATINGS (just my humble opinion- ds) 1. The Wizard of Oz -------------------- 9 out of 10. 2. The Land of Oz -------------------- 6.5 3. Ozma of Oz -------------------- 10 4. Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz -------- 6 5. The Road to Oz -------------------- 3 6. Emerald City of Oz -------------------- 4 7. Patchwork Girl of Oz ----------------- 8 8. Tik-Tok of Oz --------------------- 9 9. The Scarecrow of Oz ------------------- 8 10. Rinkitink in Oz -------------------- 4 11. The Lost Princess of Oz ------------- 9 12. The Tin Woodman of Oz ---------------- 7 13. The Magic of Oz --------------------- 8 14. Glinda of Oz ------------------------ 8.5 15. The Royal Book of Oz ----------------- 5 40. Merry Go Round in Oz ----------------- 7 Quasi FF A. Little Wizard Stories of Oz------------- 7 B. The Wicked Witch of Oz ----------------- 6.5 Non FF A. The Magic Chest of Oz ----------------- 6 B. Queen Ann in Oz ----------------------- 7.5 C. Magic Dishpan of Oz ------------------- 5 D. Dagmar in Oz -------------------------- 7 Two Newbie Questions- 1. Did Baum intend the "N"omes to be an new race as created by him? Did RPT assume that he meant "G"nomes? Are they Nomes or Gnomes? 2. Is the "Hungry" Tiger, the tiger that appears in the forest section of the WIZARD OF OZ? Where he asks the Cowardly Lion to help..etc? Douglas Silfen created ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:46:11 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz digest stuff 2 of 2 > > Douglas Silfen > created I have NO IDEA how that "created" up there got in my message. Please ignore it. It is not an attempt at vanity! :-) Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:05:57 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Robert - "Start at the beginning, go on until you reach the end and then stop. :) What series was better starting in the middle and spreading out? Robin - "Dittoes." Dave - I applaud your eschewing censorship, but will remain curious as to the original motivation. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:22:13 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Wow! I didn't know the topic of dictionaries could ignite such passion! (DId everyone note all of my misspellings in that passage of mine from 8/19?) Robert Schroeder - what's this about hating your high school English class? :-) I never understood peoples' reactions of UGH! when I tell them I am an English teacher. Anyway, I think kids, and adults for that matter, need to know how to use a dictionary when no one is around, etc., but I also don't see the harm in telling them information if they ask. As for the story issue, I don't look up every word I don't know while reading, but I may jot it down. Like Robin, I like to look things up, "just to learn or know them," but timewise that's not always possible. It also depends on whether there could be multiple meanings, etc. I do support the use of context clues to help w/ definitions. BTW, has anyone seen the movie _Say Anything_? The main character marks every word that she has looked up in her dictionary. Now, I wouldn't want to be that bad . . . Garrett, there is _Who's Who_ in Oz by Jack Snow, and I got it through the IWOC. Is that sounding familiar? Jeremy, where do you go to school that you have an internet line in your room?!!? Just in case anyone is in the Shippensburg, PA area, I'm presenting my work on the illustrations/Dorothy/Social issues project at a conference there @ Nov. 1. I just got some great info from Eric Shanower in the mail, so I'm moving along! Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:57:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 Tyler: >Thanks for your wonderful words on "Ozia Generica". Can I get my hands on a copy of that review who referred to it as "corrosive satire"? :-) I think it's Ruth who reported that review. Actually, I'd kinda like to see it, too. I mean, how often does something in OZIANA get "reviewed," y'know?! Magic in Oz: I've done some preliminary research of my own on this topic and, essentially, find myself agreeing with Tyler in the classifications. Witches seem primarily to do transformations. Yookoohoo witches seem to deal *only* with transformations. Wizards can do more varied tasks, frequently of an engineering nature. Other than as engineers, however, they always need "magic" tools. I don't know what a sorceress is, except that she requires tools, too, and generally doesn't like to deal in transformational magic...probably 'cause it's witchy magic and sorceresses are higher in the magical hierarchy than mere witches. The "It's in the book" response is why I gave up on a Fundamentals of Math course I tried to take at a local community college back in the days when I figured it might be a "good thing" if I finished off my M.A. I needed to pass the GRE. Back in high school, I ranked in the 2nd. percentile of mathematical aptitude in my peer group. In other words, numbers are not my friends. I thought I'd relearn some of the vocab., at least (since I couldn't even figure out the answers in the prep books) so I went to this da*ned class. I withdrew immediately after the "teacher" refused to teach. The "It's in the book" response, if used frequently or inappropriately...and it usually is...should be enough to damn a teacher to a particularly nasty spot in the underworld. Usury tangent: I was once taught that Jews were moneylenders during the Spanish Inquisition because they were essentially forced to it. Apparently the job was beneath a Christian, too unclean, and it was one of the only occupations open to Jews. Any truth to this? Anyone know? Dictionaries:Robert wrote:> the dictionary was the HUGE book that occupied its own special stand. And it stood in front of the class, looking mysterious, inviting me to thumb through its pages. I use to love to be told to "look it up"...after all, to me, being able to figure it all out by myself was a sure sign that I was growing up. YES!! And thank you for brightening my day. :-) (Oh, sorry you hated your high school English class. I teach high school Senior English IV.) The "I couldn't have said it better myself" category: Bob Sparks wrote: >>We admire authors for their use of language, words, not the story alone. Yup. And the comment about Shakespeare made me laugh out loud. Kids are always surprised to learn that many in his audience knew the stories before they saw the shows: it was lots of fun to lead freshmen into discussion about why they paid to see something when they already knew what was going to happen. They're usually "blown away" when they realize that Shakespeare gives away the entire plotline in the Prologure to R&J, and frequently are irritated by it. By the time they're through, though, they've learned exactly what you said so well. Shakespeare's words were the magic tools used by the excellent actors of his day. Class is over for today. I'll get down from the lecturn now.--Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:06:59 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Tyler Jones wrote: >I remember someone telling me that the bible forbade charging interest >greater than 6%, possibly some symbolism with 666, but I don't know for >sure. If you are not misremembering, you were told a flat-out lie. >Usury: FWIW--The word changed its meaning from the taking of *any* >interest to the taking of *too much* interest at the time of the >Reformation. Am I to take it that this was by the same process by which the word "Christian" changed its meaning to "Calvinist" at the same time? For this very question was a large part of the Reformation controversy. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:25:25 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-18-97 >On one hand we have Jesus driving the >money-lenders out of the temple, and on the other hand, in his parable of the >good and the lazy servants, the master berates the servant who simply horded >the talent entrusted to him with the charge that he might at least have >turned it over to the userers and let it earn some interest. On the one hand, it was money-changers, not money-lenders; they took your dirty pagan money and (at a high discount) gave you nice official temple money. Sorta like being a tourist in the USSR. On the other hand, one of the parables compares prayer to God to kvetching to a corrupt judge until you _annoy_ him into granting your request. The parables are not allegories, and it is wisest to pay attention only to the main point. (To Dave: Remember where all this _started_; the issue of small-c communism in Oz, an issue that _cannot_ be sensibly discussed by people who believe, contrary to the entire history of philosophy and ethics, let alone religion, that in the beginning was Capitalism, and then some guy named Marx started making trouble.) // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:53:40 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 Was it _Wicked Witch of Oz_? This is the book that we *know* must have occured 100 yrs. after the defeat of Singra, unless: A) Singra was not *the* WWS (which others have conjectured), or B) The 100-year clock was slow ( which *I* conjecture... :) ). 1) Eric Shanower (who, I suppose, is in the best position to judge) believes that Singra and his WWS (from Enchanted Apples) were sisters who loathed each other, sorta like Ann Landers and Dear Abby. 2) Why need it be _slow_? Does the text say anywhere that there was no intervening time before the clock was started? If you wanted to cut down on the length of time, I can see arguing for the clock to be _fast_, but why should the clock be slow? // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:03:17 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 > does anyone own or know a library where I can get Who's Who ,What's What > and Wheres Where in Oz ?Does it exist or am I making this up. > > garrett I have this book, so it does exist. > I can't agree with you on this one. If it were correct there would > be no reason to actually read Shakespeare, just Cliff's Notes. We > admire authors for their use of language, words, not the story alone. I > forget the quote but someone has said that there are only a limited > amount of plots, while the ways of retelling them are infinite. That's why you still need to see a film, even if you know how it ends... Same with mysteries, unless they're really bad. > Also observe the Communists, Socialists, Liberals of all stripes and even > Clintonites among us. This demonstrates that there are those willing to > suspend critical thought processes and believe even more unbelievable > things. :) :) Clinton said that one of the goals ever since he became president was to resolve the UPS strike. That's incredibly unbelievable! > that I shall never again ban anything on the Digest that isn't a > four-letter word. > Ozma: Oh f**k! You lump of Ork s**t! I wanted to mention this, even though we're not to PG yet. We know by this time that Oz has radio and newspapers, yet Ojo participates on a quest for objects to use for a magic spell. He should have known, even if he did not, that the unlicensed practice of magic was illegal. That's why the Wizard had to do everything without the gathered artifacts. At least that's what I think from one reading and five viewings of the film. If I get to re-read it (I bought a BoW Road, but still haven't had time to read it for discussion.) Those of you who order my filmography will get an interesting journal of my attempt to get a tape of the credits of a ponOz from Bill Dempster. He had a highschooler on LSD at the gas station last night, and the security camera would probably suggest that Bill and I were, too. I went a bit nutzoid describing the weirdness of _Wizard of Oz_ (Larry Semon, 1925). Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 14:55:57 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Lisa Bompiani wrote: >Garrett, there is _Who's Who_ in Oz by Jack Snow, and I got it through the >IWOC. Is that sounding familiar? There is also a _Who's Who, What's What, and Where's Where in Oz_ book, which was an update of Snow's _Who's Who_. BoW used to offer it, but I believe it is now out-of-print. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 21, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] HAPPY BIRTHDAY OZMA!!! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:32:35 -0400 From: "Gessel, Michael" Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-97 Richard Bauman wrote: >Is there a story here? What do[es the Library of Congress] do with those >[deposit copies] they don't keep? The Copyright Office has an elaborate procedure for disposing of material submitted as part of the copyright application. Materials are offered to any branch of the Library (i.e., Division of Prints and Photographs, Map Division, etc.). If no one within the Library wants an item, it is made available for exchanges with libraries in other countries. (That's how it gets many of its foreign publications). Then the items are offered for donation to non-profit institutions in the U.S. If that still doesn't work to get rid of the items, they are auctioned off to private dealers. This is my recollection of how the system worked several years ago when I looked into it. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 14:42:32 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Ozzy Digest Peter Glassman (or anyone who can answer this): What is the new address for BoW? I am going to be in New York over Labor Day, and want to go to the store. Thanks for the help to anyone who knows. Liz Schaible schaible@sj.bigger.net ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 8/20 issue Scott sahutchi asks, A little young to settle down, but too young to look? Absolutely not. One is never too young (or too old) to look. :-) Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:42:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: Oz news Just in time to celebrate Ozma's birthday, I've got good news about my website. I have now COMPLETELY updated the FAQ, and it's up on my site, along with a more user-friendly interface and some pictures (more to come!). I've also tweaked a few other parts of my website, and even added a few "coming soon" teasers. So I hope all Oz fans will check this out at some time. (I do have an ulterior motive for this as well: I want to make sure that all of my links are working properly, and that there aren't any REALLY BAD spelling errors or the like. I hope that with a few dozen other Oz fans taking a look they can be found more quickly. And yes, I know that the version of my FAQ on my FTP site is still 1.1, I'll be changing that ASAP.) --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### "Get out the time-fracture wickets, Hobbes! We're gonna play Calvinball!" --Calvin, "It's a Magical World," page 99 ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:42:17 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Scott >Lisa: at 21, aren't I too young to be looking for women? That depends. If you are a man at 21 you will be looking for a woman. If you are a boy there's no hurry, look for girls. Either way, good hunting...... Estelle - What's a "Can Bank?" Bompi - Would you share what you received from Eric Shanower? Robin - My wife needed to take Statistics to get her BA. I have had lots so I tried to coach her. It became clear she just didn't speak the language of math. It was just like trying to talk to someone who doesn't know your language. The solution was that she got a tutor at school and passed the course. Too bad that was not available at your school. John >(To Dave: Remember where all this _started_; the issue of small-c communism in Oz, an issue that _cannot_ be sensibly discussed by people who believe, contrary to the entire history of philosophy and ethics, let alone religion, that in the beginning was Capitalism, and then some guy named Marx started making trouble.) Well John, I don't know about the history of philosophy but looking at world history, Capitalism wasn't there in the beginning but the old earth wasn't exactly a garden spot for your average man until Capitalism came along! Communism with a large "c" sure didn't make the USSR, Soviet Bloc, China, North Korea, etc. a worker's paradise. I continue to be amazed at the way people can live in a partially Capitalist society, enjoy its benefits and at the same time "dis" it. Scott - You don't want to push Dave too far, he might change his mind. You might want to consider limiting your demonstrations of poor taste. Dave - Any chance you could post our BCF title and start date at the end of the Digest? Your Coward message has been received. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:44:09 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 Lisa: I went to high school in Chesterfield County (Midlothian HS '85) and wrote a paper about Baum's fantasies for my 11th grade English class. My sister now attends high school in Fairfax County, which can't be any *less* progressive than Chesterfield County was 12 years ago. Where in Virginia did/do you teach? Robin: I couldn't agree more with your attitude about dictionaries. I also consider myself a "helluva" good reader, yet I keep a dictionary on my nightstand for my nighttime reading. Incidentally, guess what book required the most dictionary use in the past six months? Gregory Maguire's _Wicked_. Unfortunately, I felt like he was using obscure words for the wrong reason -- to show off his vocabulary instead of enhancing the story. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:01:36 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 I also read _Dorothy of Oz_. I forgot to mention that one because it's bad, and not recently read. Scott Hutchins ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:14:13 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Those of you interested in _Mago de Oz Cuento de Frank Baum_, the hilarious Mexican teleplay based on the MGM fil, it is available from Million Dollar Video Corporation 5420 McConnell Ave. Los Angeles, CA 90066 (310)301-7474 FAX (310)301-7484 Item # MDV015 El Mago de Oz $10.50 add $3.00 for freight and $.75 for tax (I don't think they're supposed to, but they did.) for a total of $14.25. The tape is in the highest quality standard play mode, and is well worth the price, although the print quality is poor: it was blatantly shot on videotape as opposed to film. It ranks with the Sugar & Spice version as one of the funniest of all adaptations, even if you do not understand much Spanish (I know very little, and it is not subtitiled). Scott (not a plug!) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:31:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Scott C.: You'll find that a number of us have been to Saugatuck. It's right next door to Holland, where the Ozmopolitan Convention was held for many years. Great area. Wish I'd seen the Tin Woodman. I might have gotten it; I collect TWs. Baum's home, The Sign of the Goose, was in Macatawa, quite near where you were. My understanding is that it no longer stands. I believe Ozcot was the name of the Hollywood home, but I may be mistaken. Someone will probably correct us both. Ruth: Congratulations on the publication of the family letters book. As for reprinting a rarity, that's not the purpose of OZIANA. I am limited to the material I receive. OZIANA is the fictional magazine of IWOC and I'm pretty sure that its sole purposes are to print members' work and to distribute same. I like your ideas, though. John K.:>Usury: FWIW--The word changed its meaning from the taking of *any* >interest to the taking of *too much* interest at the time of the >Reformation. Am I to take it that this was by the same process by which the word "Christian" changed its meaning to "Calvinist" at the same time? For this very question was a large part of the Reformation controversy. I don't think the connection you're making here is valid, but whattheheck. Apparently the population wanted/needed SOMEone to lend money, so the definition changed to fit their desires/requirements. Happens all the time, doesn't it. Bear: Poor Dave was probably tempted into that gray area of censorship by concern for the feelings of the members of this DIGEST. Religion is a "hot button" for many people. We're bound to bruise someone's sentiments if we're not careful, especially those of us with "zingy" or "cutesy" styles of writing that sting more than we mean them to. Quiz: Sorry, Bob, you seem to be the only one interested. Do you have a copy of THE OZ GAME BOOK? Several quizzes are in it. BTW: I'm glad the DIGESTS aren't terribly long nowadays. I guess I should stop writing this post, then! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:06:40 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Robert Schroeder: Congrats on making the move to the books! You will be amply rewarded I assure you. You may as well start at the beginning. While each book stands on its own (for the most part), a small continuous sense of history does develop. As the man said, "Words mean things. People judge you by the words you use." I had the opposite experience and loved all of my High School English classes, but I had fabulous teachers. Garrett: "Who's Who, What's What and Where's Where in Oz" is a fantastic lexicon written by Peter Clark. Sadly, his company has gone the way of the dinosaur. It's too bad, because it is packed full of cool info. "Words are the core of thought. Without words, there is no thought" - Beldin the Sorcerer Not entirely true, IMHO. The two are inextricably linked in a tapestry of wonder. It is the words, and their use, which bring the story alive and make it something wonderful instead of just something decent. Eddie Murphy has more to say on this, but it's not really appropriate here... :-) David L: It's not all that conclusive that Ozette was a fairy. In _Scarecrow_, it is said that Ozma was "born of a long line of Fariy Queens". Implication: Ozma's mother must have been a fairy. Very little lis known about this woman. She appears briefly in a BEOO book. There is nothing to suggest that she is or is not a fairy (or was a member of Lurline's band). IMHO, she herself is descended from fairies, which would have made it easier for the fairy Ozma to be born to her as a mortal child. I don't know why she was not around after the overthrow of Pastoria by the four Wicked Witches, an estimated 12 years before the arrival of the Wizard. Chris Dulabone may be able to shed some light on the subject, since I can't remember. Any hints, Chris? I'm a (insert magic-type-sounding-word here): There are indeed a lot of different words that refer to magic workers, even just in the Oz books. While I do not believe that any of these titles in any way constrains people or officially determines what "kind" of magic worker the person is, I do believe that they give us clues, in a very general way, as to what kind of magic they do practice. Here is a start-up list. Maybe some other people can add in some ideas and Dave can post this to his FAQ. Wizardry: Engineering magic. Using tools and machinery. Sorcery/Soothsaying/Seer: Informational magic. Finding things out. Witchcraft: Transformation and natrual (plant) magic magician: rules, spells and mixing things to create magic potions Fairy: Natrual in-born magic. This is a very small list, just off the top of my head, and there are numerous exceptions. Zim, for example, is a Sorcerer, but a lot of his magic is plant based. I do not believe in a natural "hierarchy" of magic-users, though. In other words, I do not believe that sorcerers are always more powerful than witches who are always more powerful than magicians, etc. There are people of all descriptions who are found at all levels of the power spectrum. In th long run, though, I do not believe that these terms can really be defined. They all pretty much mean the same thing, with the possible exception of fairy. Dave: It was Thompson that mentioned the celebration of Glinda's 100th. I tend to agree with you on the idea that Sringa's clock is not quite as accurate as the atomic timepiece in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Seriously, would an alarm clock, particularly one made in the 19th century, really keep time all that accurately over 100 years, even assuming that it ran constantly? Bruce Gray: Was it you who sent me that Oz for GURPS stuff oh so long ago on the old Ozzy newsletter? How is that project coming along? Garrett: That strip of land looks to be a mountain range. As far as I know, it has never been referred to. IMHO, it is only there to hold the Deadly Desert in, since the idea of the Deadly Desert on the shores of the Nonestic (forming a beach) sort of defeats the purpose. Doug: According to Baum, "Nome" means "One who knows", one who knows where all the gold and jewels are buried under the earth. While Baum may have simply written the word that way to make it easier for children to read, the Nomes in Baum's Oz are quite different from Gnomes of European legend and D&D games. In my opinion, Nomes and Gnomes really are different, and Thompson made a mistake when she changed the spelling. Most of us like to believe that the two tigers are, in fact, the same. No mention is ever made of that "first" tiger or of the incident with the monster. Also, the Hungry Tiger did come from that forest, so there is a good chance that he is the one. John and Dave: The battle of Witches must have occurred after the deposition of Pastoria and before the arrival of the Wizard. Current HACC theory places this between 1853 and 1868. _The Wicked With of Oz_ took place in 1952. The clock need only be fast by a couple of percentage points to jibe. Scott: If you recall from _Patchwork Girl_, Ojo lived his whole life in an isolated cabin with Unc Nunkie, not the most glib source of info on the planet. Ojo could not have known much about Oz and certainly not the ban on magic which, at the time, could only have been around for a few years. Also, there may have been such deviced in the Emerald City, but that does not necessarily imply that the whole country is "wired". Glinda: Sez you! I just installed a T3 floor drop to my Web Server! Bear: The motivation of Dave, I believe, was that the topic was getting too far away from Oz. This has been discussed before, the idea that other non-Ozzy topics make the digest more fun. This is true, but we should remember why we're here in the first place and try not to stray too far from the tree, though some tangents are a good thing. With that in mind, here is hopefully my last comment on the subject: At the time of the inqusition, the Pope had placed a ban on the charging of interest for a reason that escapes me. Therefore, Jews were the only ones who could loan money. In the game _Lords of the Earth_, this ban is in effect until the Pope lifts it. It does not apply to non-Catholic Christian Empires (Denmark, cough cough) who are pagan and heretical. What usually happens is that the Catholic nations bully the papal player until, with ill grace, he capitulates and lifts the ban on evil, despicable, profit-based interest. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:31:15 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Scott, Your Ozma quote. Was there a point to it? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 01:50:44 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 SCOTT CUMMINGS: >I just returned from a pleasant (although FAR too short) vacation on Lake >Michigan, in Saugatuck. After getting about 2 hours home, I recalled that >Ozcot was once up in those woods somewhere. Does anyone know if it still >standing? actually, ozcot was in hollywood. as a child i saw the house where baum lived in michigan, but don't recall the name or even if it had one. INTERNET LINES: >Jeremy, where do you go to school that you have an internet line in your >room?!!? this is actually not uncommon as far as i know; UT has internet lines in all its dorms. but thank god, i am out of Dorm Hell--no more knuckle-dragging, misogynistic, homophobic, noisy neanderthals to deal with (not to mention community bathrooms... grrrrr). ROBIN: >YES!! And thank you for brightening my day. :-) (Oh, sorry you hated >your high school English class. I teach high school Senior English IV.) english was my only motivation for going to school senior year! besides getting out of high school, of course. SCOTT HUTCHINS: >Those of you who order my filmography will get an interesting journal of >my attempt to get a tape of the credits of a ponOz from Bill Dempster. He >had a highschooler on LSD at the gas station last night, and the security >camera would probably suggest that Bill and I were, too. I went a bit >nutzoid describing the weirdness of _Wizard of Oz_ (Larry Semon, 1925). you know, i wonder if i'm the only one who frequently has no idea what the hell you're talking about. ;) WWWWAWWIO: >There is also a _Who's Who, What's What, and Where's Where in Oz_ book, >which was an update of Snow's _Who's Who_. BoW used to offer it, but >I believe it is now out-of-print. very valuable resource tool. you might contact the arcus company, 1665 greenleaf avenue, des plaines, IL 60018 to inquire about its current availability. and of course ruth berman offers a similar item, but hers only includes more who's who and not what's what or where's where. atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:56:57 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Ozzy Digest Christine: You can find a list of Ozzy web sites at the Ozlinks page at my Ozzy Encyclopedia website. While not an exhaustive list like Eric's, it should be a pretty good starter, and from those sites you can find even more. URL is: http://www.halcyon.com/piglet Garrett (and all other recent newcomers to the Digest this year ): If you have not checked out the Ozzy Encyclopedia (URL given above), you should surf in for a check. There you will find a complete accounting of all characters, placenames, things, etc in the Baum Oz books, and a some of the others. There are a lot of other facts and data there, in fact over 1000 pages of Ozzy data. It is intended as a handy reference data site. Not much new has been added this year due to time constraints to work on it, but a lot of questions asked on the Digest can be easily answered by jumping to the Encyclopedia pages. Re: the question on who handles the Baum Estate. The last time I contacted them it was the Rose Agency in NYC. I don't have my files with me so the address and telephone number are not easily available, but can get it given some time if it is really needed. Send me an email. Melody:...re women vs. girls.........touche...........:-) Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:10:29 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Robin Olderman wrote: >Usury tangent: I was once taught that Jews were moneylenders during >the Spanish Inquisition because they were essentially forced to it. >Apparently the job was beneath a Christian, too unclean, and it was one >of the only occupations open to Jews. Any truth to this? Anyone know? Rabbi Hillel (who lived about 2000 years ago, and was, as much as any one person can be said to be, the founder of modern Judaism) essentially ruled that usury was a form of partnership, that there was nothing wrong with partnership, and that therefore the prohibition on usury was inoperative. Fast-forward to the middle ages, and in much of Europe, Jews (out of sheer anti-Semitism) had been forbidden to own land. This led to a situation somewhat as you describe, which, in turn, fed anti-Semitism, although outright physical persecution was almost always mob action; Kings preferred not to persecute their own bankers. However, the Spanish Inquisition had nothing to do with this. During most of the middle ages, Spain was ruled by Moslems. Although Jews were treated no better than Christians were, that was still better, I am ashamed to say, than Christians treated Jews in Christian countries. (For that reason, until Zionism drove a wedge between them, Jews generally regarded Islam sympathetically; older synagogues in this country frequently resemble mosques.) All this notwithstanding, toward the end of the period, a good many Spanish Jews, for reasons that are not clear, converted to Christianity. (This was _not_ a case of forced conversions; the surviving Jewish records of the period make it quite clear that the movement was voluntary, but do not explain it.) The Spanish Inquisition was formed in 1479, even before Ferdinand and Isabella (yes, those two) completed taking back Spain and the practicing Jews were expelled (in 1492, in fact), partly out of fear that they would cause the new converts to backslide, and partly out of resentment of perceived Jewish priviledges under the Moors. Some of the converts continued some Jewish practices, and soon a paranoid delusion grew that all those wicked practicing Jews had gone underground. It was never a racial thing in the Nazi sense; converts were regarded as still faithful until proven otherwise, but the slightest hint of evidence suddenly became proof. The Inquisition was created, much against the Church's better judgement (though that is no more to say than that Rome held out against pressure for a while, and then caved in) at the strong insistence of Spain, to root out all the secret Jews and Moslems that were hiding under the bed like -- dare I say it? -- Communists in the 50's. The rise of Protestantism a few years later gave it a new mission, and it was not finally shut down until 1820. >They're usually "blown away" when they realize >that Shakespeare gives away the entire plotline in the Prologure to R&J, >and frequently are irritated by it. I know a director who is annoyed by this; he has often had the prologue "performed" 15 minutes before the show, out on the lawn, so that only real fanatics will hear it and be spoiled. Of course, there's something even worse than Shakespeare in this regard. At any performance of Gilbert and Sullivan, the odds are that about half the audience will have the entire show memorized, verbatim. (This tends to make actors nervous, by the way.) sahutchi wrote: >I wanted to mention this, even though we're not to PG yet. We know by >this time that Oz has radio and newspapers, yet Ojo participates on a >quest for objects to use for a magic spell. He should have known, even if >he did not, that the unlicensed practice of magic was illegal. One short-wave radio does not a broadcast-journalism empire make, and "The Ozmapolitan" appears to have been, for most of its existence, more like a court circular than an American newspaper. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:32:38 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19-97 I'm Baaaaack! I've returned from the West Coast trip that Joyce mentioned, which was followed by a weekend when my ISP was down, and another trip to Tennessee to visit my mother. I'm back, and anticipate that the next Digest (or the one after that if it takes me past whenever Dave compiles things on 8/20) will be two or three times as long as the past few due to my contributions alone... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:28:55 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Re: The farm in the MGM film is usually said to be a typical one of the dust-bowl period. Okay, perhaps, but I think the producers of the film are to be commended for not showing anything that would *really* date the picture to the 1930"s: i.e. automobiles. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:58:11 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Ozzy Digest Lisa: _Say Anything_ is actually one of my favorite movies, and although her system for marking words she looks up is obsessive, it is kind of cute. Dictionaries etc: In general I don't think it is a matter of context clues versus dictionaries, for maximum learning there must be a blend. Although I looooove dictionaries, I understand some people don't find them very useful. The dictionary discussion on words, and the development by Robin into the question of plot and surprise endings, has prompted me to ask something. Does anyone care that many of the Oz books end in a party, and we know they are going to end this way? The ending of an Oz book was never instrumental in my enjoyment of it, because I expected a happy ending. Words on the other hand, I find extremely important to aid my (to use an over-used phrase) "willing suspension of disbelief". Without carefully chosen words which carry nuances of meaning, the story falls flat. If one considers plot and theme to be more or less inseparable, the words make up the factor which is most gripping during the actual reading of the story. Whereas, the plot and the theme are the ideas discussed after the fact. Therefore, IMHO, the words chosen are of the utmost importance, and the understanding of the meanings even more so. Douglas Silfen: I was buying my books for the coming semester at SFSU and saw one of Eric's graphic novels at the SFSU bookstore. We only have a small comic book section next to the magazines, so I thought it might give you some hope to aid you in your search. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:48:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Saroz@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Douglas -- Regarding (G)Nomes I believe the explanation always given to Baum's disuse of the G was that he believed it would be too hard for children to pronounce 'Gnome' when seeing it on paper (or, vice versa, spelling it when hearing it aloud). Ruth Plumly Thompson apparently disagreed and called them Gnomes (as did Neill in his books, though he was probably simply following Thompson's custom of seventeen years). Notice that in Who's Who in Oz, Jack Snow claims that 'Nome' is the proper spelling and refuses to spell it otherwise when referring to the Thompson books. Sarah G Hadley ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:06:33 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: Oz Greeting Card Hi all, I just found this funny Oz greeting card at our college bookstore: I want to be your Emerald City not one of your Witchitas I want to be your color movie I want to be your Oz I want to be your ruby slippers not some old tennis shoe I want to be your lion, scarecrow, tinman I'll be your Toto, too I want to save you from the flying monkeys I'll turn that old witch to goo I want to be with you when that balloon gets loose because there's no place like there's no place like there's no place like you Ain't it the truth, AIN'T IT THE TRUTH? (my line) Hope that brightens your day!! Cheers, Scott P.S. - Peter Hanff was sharp to catch that my posting about Michigan, called the Baum resort Ozcot; of course, it was "Sign of the Goose." I was actually *thinking* of the "Wizard of Oz Lodge," but that was in Indiana (I think). ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 17:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 In regards to a comment made a couple of days ago; > I can't agree with you on this one. If it were correct there would > be no reason to actually read Shakespeare, just Cliff's Notes. We > admire authors for their use of language, words, not the story alone. I > forget the quote but someone has said that there are only a limited > amount of plots, while the ways of retelling them are infinite.>> Not a bad observation, but it misses the point I was trying to make. The STORY is why we read. The richness of the telling is why we reread. A richly told tale is a noble thing. And the reader's skills at reading (his own or anyone else's) language are what make it possible for him to fully appreciate the author's craft. But the glass doesn't come in only the brimming full or completely empty modes. You cannot possibly mean to imply that only those persons with a full understanding of all that has gone into it are capable of appreciating a story. Children are perfectly capable of heartily enjoying a tale in spite of not having a full knowledge of every word it. The breakdown comes when you try to throw all children into the same lump. Some kids are facinated by the business of looking up words. Some are in this reading game purely for the sake of the story. Both can be equally enamored of the richness of the words used in the telling. There is no certainty as to which side of the coin is going to come up with any given child. There are limits to this, of course. A kid who is tripping over unfamiliar words on every third page, is very likely to set that particular story aside with the verdict that it is "too hard". I am talking about different unfamiliar words, here. If he is just tripping over the same handful of unfamilar words over and over, by the time he has gotten through a chapter or two, those particular words are no longer going to be unfamiliar. That is how it always worked for me. By the time I finished reading the story there generally wasn't any NEED to look anything up. That's what I thought the process of "learning to read" is all about. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:35:52 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-10-97 That I'd been planning to go down to Tennessee to visit my mother for a couple of days last week, but Saturday 8/9 I got a call for help late in the evening from my old company, and they offered me enough to come back there for a week that I postponed my trip to Tennessee and went to California instead. Pulled their chestnuts out of the fire, but when I got back I found that my ISP had made some changes during the week and not having been on-line I didn't know about them. Had to wait till Monday to get logged on again, and by that time I had to leave for the airport to go to Tennessee. But I'm back for a while now (though since I'm getting a tooth pulled tomorrow I may be grouchy this weekend...). And without further ado, I'll try to catch up with a week and half's worth of Digests... 8/10: Scott: >Robin: I wish people would stop interpreting my observations as attacks. >I don't know why you (not to mention Katherine) seem to interpret things >I write in my e-mails this way. Maybe it's because you phrase your observations so they sound like attacks. Usually if a person is frequently misinterpreted it's a sign that person is writing carelessly. Jeremy: _Rinkitink_ has no plot to speak of? Did you read the same book I did? I think _Rinkitink_ has possibly the most solidly integrated plot of any of the Oz books. Once the main characters are introduced the inhabitants of Pingaree are taken in a pirate raid, and the entire remainder of the story (up to the last couple of chapters that serve as the denouement) follows Inga's progress in rescuing them. It's a much more solid plot than _Land_ has. As others have pointed out, "age as you wish" was introduced by Thompson; Baum said that no one in Oz aged at all after Lurline's enchantment. Ted: I don't think Aunt Em taking Dorothy to a mental institution is all that far-fetched. We know that she and Henry disbelieved Dorothy's stories of Oz, and if they were convinced that she could be cured of her delusions I could see their trying it. And there were all kinds of odd things going on in the nineteen-oughts with the treatment of mental illness; that was a growth field of medicine at that time. Atticus: In the MS did Baum name the repair-lady Loon "Sal", as seems an obvious pun, or was she "Til" from the beginning? Or did you notice, or read that page? I suspect that Baum was just Directionally Challenged. I know my wife never can remember which direction our house faces, even though I've told her a number of times and she has an excellent memory for most things. Robin: That sounds like a neat idea for a new Oz book - _The Love Magnet of Oz_, with it passing from character to character rather like the magic cloak in the first part of ZIXI. I disagree that Glinda is an "Ozma protector" and not an "Oz protector." If her sole interest was in Ozma, why did she create the Forbidden Fountain long before Ozma came to the throne? Certainly in the post-_Wizard_ books she's an Ozma protector, but that's consistent with being an Oz protector as well, since Ozma is of paramount importance to the well-being of Oz. There is, of course, the counter-argument that she didn't do anything much about the Wicked Witches - but is that necessarily true? Could be they were too strong magically for her to defeat directly, so she arranged Dorothy's cyclone... Bob C.: If you recall, Shaggy's statement that he didn't want to go to Butterfield because a man there owed him 15 cents was a lie; he confessed, after bathing in the Truth Pond, that he wanted to avoid the place because the woman he'd stolen the Love Magnet from lived there. There's no question that his morals were quite lax at the beginning of the book. But he redeemed himself later, and as a minister you should presumably also put a high value on honest repentance and reformation, right? I wish I had another book out, but I don't as of right now. I'm working on revisions of a second book for BoW that I hope they'll publish once I've done them, and I've written an entry for the Centennial Contest that I'll submit there if it doesn't win, but I have nothing else in print in the book line. Jeremy again: MAGICAL MIMICS is in print from BoW for $12.95 in quality PB. Doug: I think WICKED WITCH is better than HIDDEN VALLEY, although I wouldn't put it up among the best of the Oz books. On the 1-10 scale I'd give it about a 4. (Of the five IWOC non-FF books I'd give FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN a 7, OZMAPOLITAN a 6, YANKEE and WICKED WITCH 4s, and ENCHANTED ISLAND a 2.) Gordon: Butterfield, OR, doesn't even show up on my Street Atlas USA CD-ROM (or at least, not when I search for Butterfields). The others you mention all turn up, but only the ones in Missouri and Arkansas seem to have even a small community associated with them. That's as far as I've managed to get by the time I have to start dinner. I think I'll go on and send this and resume in a bit. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 16:29:14 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA AND MILD PROFANITY: Jellia asked me to say for the record that Ozma doesn't consider it a nice birthday present to her to put (four-letter) words in her mouth... :) Thanks to everyone who wrote to defend my desire to edit the Digest in order to prevent hurt feelings. MY SIG. AND NOT-SO-MILD PROFANITY: And speaking of four-letter words, last night I was flamed by someone (*not* anyone on the Digest) for my "Blithe Spirit" signature...The flame did indeed contain profanity so I won't repeat it. However, I will ask the group if they think my Internet signature is too long and wish me to drop it. OZ NEWSLETTER: I got an ad in the mail today for something called "Beyond the Rainbow's Wizard of Oz Collector's Exchange". Does anyone know about this? Is it for the MGM movie only? GLINDA: I agree with David that Glinda an "Oz-protector" ... My own theory is that in pre-Dorothean days Glinda was not as powerful as now and she *knew* that attempting to conquer the extant wicked witches at that time was hopeless. Perhaps she even got a message from Lurline or someone instructing her not to attempt a premature liberation of Oz... OZIANA: When is the deadline for submitting something for _Oziana '98_? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 22, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:38:57 -0400 (EDT) From: DianaBoban@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 I have been meaning to respond to this for a while, but have been much to lazy (oh, I mean busy of course! Me, lazy, no way!) Since I don't post much to the list, I guess it is a good way to introduce myself. NAME: Diane E-Mail: DianaBoban@aol.com Date of Birth: 3/16/75 Residence: Boston MA Profession: Student Level of Education: I'm almost done, and then its off to grad school! Age of Discovery: My parents swear it was at birth! How Discovered: 1939 movie. How found Digest: I think IWOC (if I remember correctly!) OZ Organizations: you mean IWOC and RCO?! Primary OZ interest: yes! = ) How Many FF Books read: 19 Non-FF Oz books read: 2 Non-Oz Baum books: 0 Non-Oz Thompson: 0. Current Oz projects: actually reading all the FF! Main Oz concentration: it started with the movie, but has slowly progressed to the books. MOPPeTs: Not yet, but I have a question about some others! I like the idea of the age-as-you-wish idea, but I was wondering if those of you who believe in this theory feel that the aging process is conscious or unconscious. I mean, does one consciously decide when to age, or is it more of an unconscious process, like when you have done all that can be done at a certain age, you move on? I apologize if this has been discussed before, I am just curious! That's all! Now that I am introduced, I will lurk some more! Diane ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:46:49 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Dave: My last submission didn't make the Digest. Here it is again: Lisa: I went to high school in Chesterfield County (Midlothian HS '85) and wrote a paper about Baum's fantasies for my 11th grade English class. My sister now attends high school in Fairfax County, which can't be any *less* progressive than Chesterfield County was 12 years ago. Where in Virginia did/do you teach? Robin: I couldn't agree more with your attitude about dictionaries. I also consider myself a "helluva" good reader, yet I keep a dictionary on my nightstand for my nighttime reading. Incidentally, guess what book required the most dictionary use in the past six months? Gregory Maguire's _Wicked_. Unfortunately, I felt like he was using obscure words for the wrong reason -- to show off his vocabulary instead of enhancing the story. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:17:10, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 Dave Hulan: Welcome back. I was mistaken about there being another book out by you. I hope there is soon, though. I also agree with you, that Shaggy proved himself by protecting his companions along their journey. My original contention was that his first actions were immoral. Dave Hardenbrook: I personally like your "Blithe Spirit" ending. It reminds me that even though I may be wiser now, I may not be smarter. There is still much that we do not know. :-) Thanks for the digest! Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-19 and 08-20 Catching up again--oh, to have a computer to myself again! Soon enough, soon enough... DIGEST OF THE 19th-- Bob Spark: You say, <> This reminds me of the idea I once had for a science fiction story in which all the melodies that could possibly exist had been made, and composers were stuck with the job of rewriting old ones or some other ingeneous idea. (The parallel isn't exact, but similar.) Lost DIgester? Whatever happened to Gili? Does she no longer have access to a computer, or is she just choosing her words wisely (as I so rarely do)? Communication--or the Lack Thereof: Tyler reminds us that "Ironically, we of the outer world probably know more about Oz than their nearest neighbors." Similarly, I hear (and remember) more about the rest of the world than about the little, insignificant town of Peachtree City, GA -- which isn't saying much, as nothing ever happens here anyway . . . (Policepeople have time to rescue cats and dogs from trees here, since the crime rate is so low. Yes, we have a low crime rate--at the expense of culture! But that's another matter entirely.) AND ON TO THE 20TH-- Nomes / Gnomes : I always wondered, myself, why the series featured both, with Nome Ention of what the difference is . . . Lisa B.: I attend Berry College, where this coming year, for the first time, they say they're going to have Internet connections in each room. Berry is in Rome, Georgia--I'd rather be going to school in New York or anywhere else in the north, or perhaps New Mexico, at a school where my Uncle Jack teaches, but Georgia is where I have the misfortune to reside at the moment, and a multitude of reasons make it wisest that I not move too far from my family. {{Especially since I don't drive :-( --but that's another issue.}} Interest-charging: That's the kind of pill I needed to help me through my American Government class first semester of last year . . . --Jeremy Steadman ------- ----------- ----------- ----------- KIEX: And KIEX, you blockhead! Jeremy: Well, if you call mine a "block"head, at least you agree it's not full of air. Kidding! Kidding! Don't throw that at me, please!!!! KIEX: Serves you right for treating an honest witch like this! Jeremy: (weakly) Honest, my foot . . . KIEX: Your foot, eh? Good idea! (stomp) Jeremy: Ever heard the line about not stepping on a man when he's down? ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:54:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 David Hulan: I must have mixed up RINKATINK with another Oz book when I said it has "no plot to speak of". --KIEX (and the Germy thing) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 Re Book Endings: Many, if not most Oz books may end in parties, but only trilogies have three--party 1, party 2, and party 3. (I heard a groan somewhere out in cyberspace--can't imagine why... :-) ). --The Germy thing AND KIEX!!!!!!!!!! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:50:11 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-11-97 et seq. Back to catching up: 8/11: Scott O.: Thanks for the info on the Butterfield Stage Route. Might well have given Baum his word. (Though since there isn't a Butterfield anywhere in the Southwest nowadays, I wonder if it was named for its owner, say, instead of a town it passed through?) Incidentally, anybody remember the movie "Butterfield 8", which I think was based on a book by John O'Hara or somebody like that and starred Elizabeth Taylor as a call girl? Was made back in the late '50s, IIRC. Apparently BUtterfield was a telephone exchange in Manhattan back when exchanges had names - or at least, there was such an exchange in the book and movie; maybe not for real. Anybody who lived in NYC in those days know? Robin? Liz: I agree that _Blue Witch_ is the sweetest story among the Shanower graphic novels, but _Ice King_ is still my favorite. That's a matter of personal taste, though; objectively, I think _Blue Witch_ is probably the best. Interesting. Bear said that the San Jose library didn't have Oz books when he wanted to get them to read to his kids. I imagine his kids are older than you are, so it sounds as if the SJ library must have acquired the books relatively late - actually, after the R&L editions were pretty much out of print, assuming Bear's kids are roughly the age of my daughter (born mid-'60s). I don't think that Oz fans make newcomers feel at all unwelcome at the cons - quite the reverse, really; I think that by and large they go out of their way to welcome newcomers. That said, though, it's true that a substantial core of convention attendees have been doing it for many years. They don't, for the most part, see each other any other time, so quite naturally they spend much of their time catching up on what's happened in the past year, etc., and reminiscing about conventions past. This can make it a little intimidating for a newcomer who wanders past such a conversation, especially if that person isn't a particularly extroverted type. I know it took me three or four conventions before I was altogether comfortable, even though everyone was very friendly. It's a bit like coming into the family reunion of a very friendly family that you've just married into...without the benefit of a spouse to translate for you. Tyler: Polychrome seems to have magical powers of some sort in _Sky Island_, though she doesn't actually use them. In _Tik-Tok_, she doesn't seem to be able to work magic, though she's immune to Ruggedo's. But in _Tin Woodman_ she definitely works several magical spells. I don't think she does any magic in her later cameos. >Sorry to bear this news, but as far as I can remember, the Frogman simply >drops out of sight after _Lost Princess_. As you know, he makes a cameo in >_Magic_ for Ozma's birthday party, but that is the last we hear from him. Actually, the Frogman is one of Ozma's councillors in _Glinda_ as well, and accompanies the rescue expedition to the Skeezer country, though he doesn't do anything constructive regarding the rescue. (He is, however, an important character in _Magic Carpet_, if it ever sees print...) Bob C.: One of the interesting things about cyberspace is that even if you have the E-mail address of a person, you can't tell what state they're from. (Country, yes, at least sometimes. I know that any address ending in ".au" is from Australia, and any ending in ".il" is from Israel; I'm not sure about any other national addresses because those are the only furrin countries I've had correspondents in.) When Robin did her original "poll" back in the spring (or whenever it was) we found out what states a lot of the more active Digest folks are from, but nothing like all 150. Ruth: David Bratman doesn't really understand Oz, I think. Nice enough guy, but his interests are in other directions. ("A Generic Oz Story" is very funny, but "corrosive satire"? C'mon!) _The Dragon and the George_ was still in print in PB the last time I looked, though admittedly that was a couple of years ago. Still, it's easy to find in used PB stores if ILL is too much trouble. Dave: It makes some sense that _Glinda_ takes place before _Tin Woodman_, though even in _Glinda_ Ozma exhibits considerable magical power that she lacked in LP and earlier books. The precise chronological sequence of the books is fixed through _Scarecrow_ by various items; it's the same as the order of publication. But I don't think there's anything to show where _Rinkitink_ fits in, other than that it's after _Scarecrow_, and we know _Lost Princess_ occurs before _Magic_ or _Glinda_ because of the presence of the Frogman in both the latter. My favorite Judy Garland movie after _Wizard_ is _Meet Me in St. Louis_, though I liked _Babes in Arms_ a lot as well the one time I saw it. I didn't care greatly for _Easter Parade_; Garland and Astaire are probably my two favorite musical performers, but I don't think they worked well together. (Fred was too old for her, for one thing.)(Says a guy who's 16 years older than his wife...) She was much better with Gene Kelly in _The Pirate_. I frankly don't remember seeing any of the other _Wizard_ stars in other movies, but then I'm not a great movie buff. 8/12: Ruth: >Baum seems to say in "Tin Woodman" that there is no aging in Oz >(babies are stuck with being babies forever), although it doesn't >say so flat out. It seems to me that "Those who were old remained old; those who were young and strong did not change as years passed them by; the children remained children always, and played and romped to their hearts' content, while all the babies lived in their cradles and were tenderly cared for and never grew up," says that there's no aging about as flat out as one could ask for. I don't know, but "Kieran" sounds Celtic to me (though it wouldn't be the Celtic spelling). Not a name I've run across before. Jeremy: I don't think Baum could have said the farm was near Omaha, at least not "near" in the sense of "the nearest city of any size;" Omaha is probably 150 miles from the nearest point in Kansas. Bear: >>John >Aristotle, Moses, and Thomas Aquinas would all describe capitalism in >>more or less the same way. >Please enlighten us as to when any of the above ever observed capitalism? IIRC, it's your view that none of us have ever observed capitalism either. Robin: I enjoy _A Barnstormer in Oz_ for what it is, which is a sort of Alternate Oz very different from the real one - rather in the same way I enjoy Harry Turtledove's alternate histories (though not as much, because Turtledove is a much better writer than Farmer). But it's not something I'd want to talk about at an Oz convention, unless someone else brought the subject up. (Farmer has done the same thing with Tarzan and Doc Savage and possibly other fictional "universes".) You've handled far more Oz books than I have, so I defer to you regarding the quality of their bindings. The older copies I've come across have mostly not been very tight. But that may be from excessive use rather than inherent in the binding. I was thinking about trying a Card book when I read his endorsement of the ayatollahs' death sentence on Rushdie, after which I decided I didn't want to do anything that would be supportive of someone like that, however good his books might be. Susan: Send me your snail-mail address and I'll send you a copy of the map that shows where the various places introduced in _Glass Cat_ are. Steve: You don't have to be a member of the IWOC to attend conventions, although being a member makes it easier to find out about them. 8/13: Nathan: Welcome back! You've been missed. John K.: The Conservatives in the UK and the Republicans in the US are the parties that follow the 19th-century Liberal _economic_ policies most closely, but the Liberals in 19th century Britain weren't xenophobes; in that respect the Conservatives and Republicans generally follow the 19th-century Conservatives. And regarding the original spelling of "Stephen", I meant in English, as I thought I made clear. Ruth: Who did play Annie Oakley in the movie of "Annie Get Your Gun"? It seems to me that it might have been Betty Hutton, but I only saw the movie once, when it came out, and I'm really vague on it. Dave: John K.'s definitions of the various forms of speculative fiction are John K.'s, and should not be taken as Received Enlightenment. Pick another knowledgeable SF fan and you'll get a slightly different version. In particular, I don't know too many other people who'd define "Sci-Fi" as he does; for most people I know, it's just a rather *eh* synonym for Science Fiction, and not a way of categorizing bad SF. (Other than that, any differences I have with his definitions are minor.) 8/14: Scott O.: I don't think Mrs. Gulch's bicycle is of a type that would have been found in Kansas in 1900, though I could be wrong. Robin: _Wicked Witch_ wasn't written for today's 9-10 year old kids, but for 1952's, IIRC. The literacy level then was considerably higher, though possibly less than in Baum's day. (Although if that's so, it's almost certainly because far fewer children in Baum's day were literate at all. TV had not had a major impact on literacy in 1952.) And I didn't write down at all in _Glass Cat_ (I actually wrote it for a group of friends who are all adults, though not big Oz fans), but 5th grade kids have generally liked it a lot when it's been read to them, although I don't know how many have read it themselves. It's a point of pride to me that for the second year in a row, two 5th grade teachers have read _Glass Cat_ to their classes, and in both cases it's produced a run on the Oz books in the school library. I don't say _Glass Cat_ is up to the quality of the original series, but if it turns kids on to it then I'm happy. Doug: I suspect that the reason _Magic_ is the only Del Rey Oz book you can't find is that it's the first one to sell out all the backlog. I doubt it's anything in particular about that book. Earl: I just read _The Golden Compass_ a few weeks ago, and plan to look for _The Subtle Knife_ in the library next time I'm there. (With a few rare exceptions - including some Oz books - I don't buy publishers' hardcovers of books that aren't by personal friends.) TGC was indeed an excellent book, and I do want to find out what happens next. But based on TGC, I think I'd be on the side of the rebel angels in that universe anyhow. Prof. Woggle-bug: I think someone else corrected you on this as well, but by the time of "Julius Caesar" (late 16th century) the Copernican theory was well-established among all the intellectual elite, I'm sure including Bacon. Galileo had already published his _Discourse on Two Systems_, or whatever its title was (something like that). And I think I'm going to stop now and proceed with further catching up tomorrow (when I will probably be Very Grouchy, because of having a numb jaw, so I pray that you make allowances...). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 19:53:26 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: Oz Digest Stuff Tyler and Sarah: Thanks for the information on the Nomes/Gnomes!! I too like to think the Hungry Tiger was in the Wonderful Wizard of Oz. David Hulan: You really like Forbidden Fountain, eh? I liked MERRY GO ROUND IN OZ alot. How does it compare to that? Do the authors create more characters or do they use the more famous personages in Forbidden Fountain? Hey, Shanower's illustrations make WICKED WITCH OF OZ a couple of rating points higher that it otherwise would have been for me. A.E. Schaible: SFSU would be San Francisco State University, yes? I have a friend who teaches at Santa Clara University. I'll ask him to check out the book store and see if they have any more Shanower graphic novels. I JUST FOUND ---THE BLUE WITCH OF OZ-- graphic novel by Shanower today!!! All: If you would like to... I'd like to hear what you have to say about each of Eric Shanower's graphic novels! What do you think about: THE ENCHANTED APPLES OF OZ THE SECRET ISLAND OF OZ THE ICE KING OF OZ THE FORGOTTEN FOREST OF OZ and THE BLUE WITCH OF OZ (the only one I have. I just got it a few hours ago and have yet to read it) ? Thanks, Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 22:40:19 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Terribly Long Digests: Actually, for this month, we are on pace to produce the most amount of digest material in one month since January. I don't know if this is "terribly long" or not. David: Farmer theorizes in _Barnstormer_ that Glinda arranged the cyclone that carried Dorothy's house to that meeting with the WWEast. Butterfield, Oregon: On my STREET ATLAS USA (Version 4.0) Butterfield, Oregon is on the coast, in the extreme northwest corner of the state, on highway 26 between Gearhart and Warrenton. It is, if anything, smaller than the one in Missouri. The search for "Butterfield" is much like the search for Springfield on the Simpsons chat page. Dave (I mean no disrespect, Don Hardenbrook :-) ): Sigs, in general, are cute, but when they've been there for a while, it wears a little thin. Even though the digest is here for us ot have fun, I must take the tactic of my opposition and ask: Do we really "NEED" to have these things in the digest day after day? Not that I'm trashing them, please uderstand, it's just that over time (and this includes outside the Digest as well) I've picked up a "been there, done that, ho hum" attitude to sigs at the end of e-mail messages. We could probably do without sigs altogether. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:20:42 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 Dave Hardenbrook, I think that I have said this in the past, but will repeat it. I think your "Blithe Spirit" quote is perfectly delightful. I never tire of seeing it. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:17:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 Tyler: Thanks for the Inquisition info. Scott C.: Who published that greeting card? I'd like to find one like it. David: Welcome home. Yeah, it means longer DIGESTS, but you're usually interesting, so I'm sure' not complaining. You manage to write in a knowledgeable way that doesn't seem like you're showing off, so I enjoy your posts. Please don't think my comment yesterday about being relieved at shorter DIGESTS was aimed at you. I look forward to your posts, and to many of the othere people's, too. Gee, even your spelling is good! (I cringe when I read some of my own typos.) :-) >That sounds like a neat idea for a new Oz book - _The Love Magnet of Oz_, with it passing from character to character rather like the magic cloak in the first part of ZIXI. Wanna write it? Maybe *I* will. I tried to talk Gordon into it. It really does have possibilities... Glinda created the Fountain of Oblivion? I think you're right, but I'd forgotten that. Where is the info given? I'll have to rethink my position... Dave: OZIANA submission deadline is flexible, right now. If I get enough good stuff from Peter (from the convention submissions), then the deadline will be by the end of September. If not, I'll have to hold it open somewhat longer. I assume that I'll use at least one story from one of the winners of the Frederick E. Otto Award. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:02:58 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Ozzy Questionnaire Questionnaire > > NAME: A. Elizabeth Schaible, (prefer Liz) > DATE OF BIRTH: 6/2/77 > HOME: San Francisco, California > PROFESSION: College Senior/Library Assistant > LEVEL OF EDUCATION: one more year for my B.A.! > AGE YOU DISCOVERED OZ: about 5 > HOW YOU DISCOVERED OZ: Mom read _Wizard_ to me > HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THE _OZZY DIGEST_: Gjovaag > OZ ORGANIZATION(S) YOU BELONG TO: International Club > PRIMARY OZ INTEREST (MOVIE OR BOOKS): books, but I like the movies > HOW MANY CANONICAL (FF) OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ? :BAUM BOOKS? THOMPSON? > NEILL? COSGROVE-PAYS? McGRAW?: 40 > WHICH NON-FF OZ BOOKS HAVE YOU READ?: a few here and there, though not in awhile > HOW MANY BAUM NON-OZ BOOKS READ?: Some Aunt Jane's Nieces, Master Key > HOW MANY THOMPSON NON-OZ BOOKS READ?: 0 > ANY CURRENT "OZZY PROJECTS" THAT YOU ARE PURSUING? (WRITING NEW OZ > BOOKS, RESEARCH, ECT?): biographical research on Maxfield Parish, and George M. Hill > MAIN OZZY AREA OF CONCENTRATION?: research in the non-fiction area biographies etc. Also collecting first edition books. Not terribly interested in collectibles, though they are cool too. > WHAT ARE YOUR MOPPeTS ABOUT OZ?: The main thing on my mind currently is the issue of where it is. The different planet thing bothers me, and I prefer the idea that it is in another dimension, or accesible through another dimension. That's about it right now. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:11:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Haldehoff@aol.com Subject: Oz Matters First of all, I'm wishing a happy belated birthday to our dear sovereign, Ozma. I realize I'm a couple minutes late. I hope she'll forgive me. Garrett: I don't know if the strip of land to which you referred has any official name. I sometimes just call it "Mountain Land." This area contains both Zectorland (from _Gardener's Boy_) and Nimenvell (from my own short story "The Search For Soob"). Douglas: Baum is said to have changed to spelling of "gnome" so that it would be easier for children to pronounce. He used the traditional spelling of the word in some other works, such as _Santa Claus_, however. Personally, I think that Nomes and Gnomes are the same beings (or possibly that Nomes are a subset of Gnomes), but there are some who would disagree with me. The idea that the tiger in _Wizard_ is the same as the Hungry Tiger has been suggested many times. We don't know whether Baum intended these two tigers to be the same, though. Regarding Dorm Room Internet Lines: My dorm room at school (the Honors College at Indiana University of Pennsylvania) also has internet connections. I'll be back there on the thirtieth of this month. A Question: On tonight's episode of "Seinfeld," two midgets, who looked suspiciously like Jerry Maren (one of the Lollipop Guild guys from the MGM movie) and his wife, appeared. Does anyone know if this was they? Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:50:53 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 DAVID HULAN: >Atticus: >In the MS did Baum name the repair-lady Loon "Sal", as seems an obvious >pun, or was she "Til" from the beginning? Or did you notice, or read >that page? i didn't notice. sorry. next time i get around to examining the manuscript i'll be sure to check for you. DAVE HARDENBROOK: >MY SIG. AND NOT-SO-MILD PROFANITY: >And speaking of four-letter words, last night I was flamed by someone >(*not* anyone on the Digest) for my "Blithe Spirit" signature...The flame >did indeed contain profanity so I won't repeat it. However, I will ask >the group if they think my Internet signature is too long and wish me >to drop it. i have no problem with it. some people just have too much time on their hands if they get bent out of shape about something like that. as for me, i have much more important things to bitch about! atticus * * * "I see casualness and mundane effects of gesture made by constant populations. . . I am standing among all of you waving my invisible arms and hands. I am shouting my invisible words. I am getting so weary. . . I am crawling around looking for the aperture of complete and final emptiness. I am vibrating in isolation among you. I am screaming but it comes out like pieces of clear ice. . . I am disappearing. I am disappearing but not fast enough." --David Wojnarowicz, on his AIDS-related suffering ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 07:14:32 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest Scott Cummings, The Ozmopolitan Convention was held, for many years, at the Castle, literally in Saugatuck. Many Oz treasures have been discovered in the area at flea markets, etc. The leading store in the area is probably Bicentennial Books in Kalamazoo. SW Michigan is also the best place to find the rare Baum (aka John Estes Cooke) book, "Tamawaca Folks", which was privately printed for his friends while he was living in the area. I have had four of these, all of them from MI. I paid $600 for the last one six years ago, and imagine one might go for $1000 now! Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:20:39 +0600 From: rri0189@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 Richard Bauman wrote: >I continue to be amazed at >the way people can live in a partially Capitalist society, enjoy its >benefits and at the same time "dis" it. That could be said, and has been said, of any social system. Substitute "slave-holding", for example. Robin Olderman wrote: >I don't think the connection [between Capitalism and Calvinism] you're >making here is valid, but whattheheck. I'm not the one making the connection; the historic facts do it for me. Check out, for example, the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. Or, for that matter, look at any Restoration comedy and ask yourself: Who are the wits, and who are the "cits"? Ask yourself whence came the British upper class's reflexive horror of being "in trade". Tyler Jones wrote: >At the time of the inqusition, the Pope had placed a ban on the charging >of interest for a reason that escapes me. The Inquisition had nothing to do with it one way or the other. You might as well say: At the time of the C.I.A., America had laws against homosexuality. And the "reason that escapes you" is the Bible (supported, in this issue, by Aristotle). * * * * Look, folks, I'm not making this stuff up. Most of you, I am sure, have access to Bibles and encyclopaedias, so make like the kids with the dictionaries are supposed to. * * * * Dave: I'm sure there's no problem with your signature on the Digest. On general principles it might be due for a change, but I certainly don't mind seeing it. However, in a simple mailing list, in a digested list of which you are not the administrator, or in USENET, three lines is considered the polite maximum by most authorities in netiquette. In private mail, on the other hand, commenting on the length of anothers sig. seems simply impertinent, unless, perhaps, the recipient is blind or has a very slow modem, so that he is seriously inconvenienced by verbiage that is not to the point. // John W Kennedy -- Hypatia Software -- "The OS/2 Hobbit" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:16:02 -0400 From: BARLOW NATE Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 Sender: BARLOW NATE Liz: You're right, there has to be a mixture of context clues and dictionaries. Sometimes the context was so overwhelmingly clear to me that it didn't even register that I was reading a new word. Other times, the dictionary was the only way to go. Every time I would look something up, nearby words would catch my eye and I would learn several new words. An Oz book without a happy ending would be wrong, so I never minded the party. It was the logical conclusion. There are countless books, movies and plays that I like that don't have cheerful endings, but that just wouldn't work for Oz. I think the Oz books were great with language not only because they're written with interesting, colorful words that pull the reader in, but because the authors (particularly Baum and Thompson) intentionally play with and on words. I love the puns. Nate ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:19:07 +0000 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-15-97 et seq. Well, while I bite down on a gauze pad till I get a good clot, I might as well continue catching up on back Digests... 8/15: Bear: British children's books do seem to be written at a more literate level than those in this country, but I'm not sure that TV is the explanation. They watch a ton of TV in Britain, too. (I just got a message from a friend about a megafad there called "Teletubbies", which was originally designed for kids under two but which has caught on with people all the way up to adults.) I suspect that the main difference is that they have national standards in schools there - everybody takes their O-levels and A-levels, and their future largely depends on how they do on them - but this idea is anathema among conservatives (because they believe in local control of schools) and liberals (because they oppose standards) alike in this country. And while there's probably a majority in the middle, like me,who think it's a good idea, they aren't organized nearly as well as the two extremes. Melody: I think the quote from _Lost Princess_ that says Glinda is a fairy is using "fairy" in the extended sense Baum used elsewhere, applying to all native inhabitants of Oz as opposed to mortals from the Great Outside World. He's pretty clear elsewhere that Glinda isn't a fairy in the same sense Ozma is. 8/17: Bob S.: >I, for one, would be delighted to have an old bum, or anyone else, steal >my neighbor's dog :-). My current neighbors' dog is a nice enough animal (though it barks at me any time I go out in my yard), but when I lived in SoCal I had three neighbors in a row (I lived between two rental properties, so there was considerable turnover) who had thoroughly obnoxious dogs that I'd have been delighted to see stolen. Not only did they make the day and night hideous with their constant barking and howling, but they chewed holes in the fence between our yards. It's my opinion that the back yard of a 5000 square foot lot is not big enough to keep pairs of big dogs in, though I'm aware that this is heresy for dog-lovers. (I'd really rather see big dogs - in these cases Labs, chows, German shepherds, and golden retrievers - restricted from urban settings entirely, but at least they ought to have a quarter acre or so to exercise in.) But Toto was a small dog living on a farm, which is considerably different (even if Mrs. Gulch didn't think so in the movie...). 8/18: Bob S.: Being a conservative doesn't require believing the unbelievable, though being a supply-sider does. :-) Joyce: I've always enjoyed looking words up in the dictionary (and frequently find myself then browsing through a whole page or two picking up more new words), but I know I'm Weird. (FWIW, I also have a sizable collection of dictionaries of foreign languages, most of which I've never studied formally - French, German, Spanish, Russian, Italian, Hebrew, Yiddish, Dutch, Greek, and Latin, including multiples of several of those, although the only languages I've taken courses in were Latin, German, Russian, and Hebrew. But the dictionaries let me pick out the sense of quotations in other languages as well when I run across them in books. Not the nuances, of course, but at least the basic idea.) Bob C.: We don't know much about Glinda's history. We know she's been around for a long time, because of the story of the Forbidden Fountain, but not much more than that about her past. I used to be a Rams fan, but after they deserted Anaheim for St. Louis I pretty much lost interest in the NFL. I follow the Bears a little now, but don't really care all that much if they lose. Tyler: I wonder if times have changed or what? I prefer going to a movie with someone, but I've been to quite a lot of them alone and it doesn't bother me at all if I want to see the movie and there's no one handy to go with. Dave: I think "quasi-immortal" is a fair description of, say, an ordinary Ozite - who will not die a natural death, but may be completely destroyed. I don't believe a true fairy could be destroyed, for instance. 8/19: Earl: >To JOdel on the effort to teach the children to use dictionaries: Give a >man a fish and he eats once; teach the man to fish and he eats all the >rest of his life. Some truth to that old saying (though it's not true if overfishing ruins the fishery), but what Joyce described would be more comparable to telling a man that if he knew how to fish he'd be able to eat. (Granted, the latter is good conservative doctrine, but...) Robert: With the Oz books, starting at the beginning is the best way, though it's not as essential as it is with some series. You do have to get through some rather weak books (IMHO) early in the series, though; if you want to skip _Dorothy and the Wizard_ and _Road_ it might not be a bad idea. They don't contribute a lot, other than getting the Wizard back to Oz in the first one. Garrett: _Who's Who, What's What, and Where's Where in Oz_ is a real book, but it's long since out of print. You might be able to get it through ILL; I don't know. I have my own copy. Robin: A quiz? Sure! But maybe getting through _Emerald City_ first would be a good idea. Of course, doing it on-line would mean there'd be no way to prevent doing research, but it would only be of significance to those who took it, and they'd know whether they'd known the answers or had to look them up. David L.: Remember that Ozette is _not_ a canonical character; she's from one or more non-FF books and is not accepted by a good many Oz fans. Liz: The address I have for BoW is 16 West 18th St., but I'm not sure if that's the new address or not. It's from the Spring 1997 Oz Collector. Bear: >Well John, I don't know about the history of philosophy but looking at >world history, Capitalism wasn't there in the beginning but the old earth >wasn't exactly a garden spot for your average man until Capitalism came >along! Communism with a large "c" sure didn't make the USSR, Soviet Bloc, >China, North Korea, etc. a worker's paradise. I continue to be amazed at >the way people can live in a partially Capitalist society, enjoy its >benefits and at the same time "dis" it. The old earth hasn't been exactly a garden spot for the common man since Capitalism came along, either. However, capitalism-cum-democracy has produced the best environment for the common man that any system has. Capitalism without democracy (e.g. early 19th century Britain or Germany from unification to WW I) was considerably less benign. Tyler: Lots of people seem to have had excellent high school English teachers. I envy them. I didn't. (Had great Latin and history teachers, though, and a very effective, if unpleasant, math teacher.) Some fantasy writers make very sharp distinction among various forms of magic-working. Probably the most elaborate that I've run across is Lawrence Watt-Evans in his Ethshar books (a very good series, by the way, though it seems to be largely OP now), where wizards, warlocks, witches, sorcerers, demonologists, priests, and possibly others that I forget each work a different kind of magic. Relative power is more within a magical mode than between modes, although warlocks are always the most powerful and witches usually the least. Baum and his successors, however, don't seem to make much distinction except between the inherent magic of fairies and the learned magic of everyone else who can work magic. It's entirely possible that a clock made in the 19th century would keep accurate time if it were kept wound by magic; ships' chronometers had to be accurate to within a few seconds over months to determine longitude accurately (being off by a minute in time would put your position off by 15 miles at the equator). But alarm clocks usually weren't built to that kind of accuracy, it's true. Still, I'd think Glinda would see to it that a clock with that kind of responsibility was good to a part in 10,000 or so; I can't see it being off by a year in a century. One part in 10,000 is about a minute a week, and lots of alarm clocks, including 19th century ones, are that good. That would put it off by 3-4 days in a century. >It [the ban on usury in _Lords of the Earth_] does not apply to >non-Catholic Christian Empires (Denmark, cough cough) who >are pagan and heretical. Maybe this was just careless phrasing, but how can an empire be Christian and pagan? (I assume this applies to the official religion, whatever it is; if there's no official religion, then the empire itself isn't Christian or pagan, but secular.) John K.: To amplify on your answer to Scott's question (which was in a Digest I haven't received yet): There's no evidence that there's any radio broadcasting in Oz; the only radio we know of is the one that communicates with Baum. Also, Ojo was assured by Dr. Pipt, who he would undoubtedly think would know, that working magic for his own benefit was legal, although doing it for others would be illegal. But we can get into that in another couple of months when PG is the BCF. Liz: I enjoy the parties at the end of many of the Oz books. That's partly why I have one at the end of _Glass Cat_, and there's one near the end of _Magic Carpet_ if it ever sees print. There isn't one at the end of _Eureka_, though. Sarah: Snow didn't like what Thompson did with Oz, and did his best to ignore her contributions, though he could hardly ignore her entirely in _Who's Who_. Dave: I have no problem with your Internet signature, though maybe if it were found in the middle of a Digest instead of at the end it would be a bit different. I like the quote, but I've read it enough times now that I know when I see the beginning of it that I've read everything of interest on the Digest. It's pretty easy to scroll past even long signatures, though, as I do with Atticus's having read it several times. Hey! I'm caught up, except for the missing 8/20 Digest! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:49:22 -0400 From: drdave@discoveryonline.com (drdave) Subject: Re: Help Requested For Attachment to The Ozzie Digest Drdave wrote: David M. Okinaga:OK, I can see there are too many Dave's here so for clarification purposes only please refer to me as DrDave for correspondence in "The Ozzy Digest." Please use DrDave = David M. Okinaga to help quell any more confusion. I am sorry and I thank you. I do have a few questions if any of you would be so kind to respond to: 1. I read the post from Christine R. Gray about the Land of Oz Amusement Park located somewhere in North Carolina. Does anyone have any verification on this place. Can anyone out there in Ozma please respond to this question. Have any of you ever heard of this place and if so where in North Carolina is it???? I have never heard of such an amusment park. 2. I am making reservations for the convention in Liberal, Kansas during October 17, 18, and 19. I have heard that a few of the original munchkins will be there, but is anyone else planning on going. Has anyone ever been to the Oz convention in Liberal, Kansas before? Can any of you give me advise about the convention, where to stay, what kind of place Liberal, Kansas is? Will there be enough facilities to accomodate everyone?? I would appreciate any response to these questions so I do not make a terrible mistake in planning my vacation of the year. Thank you all so much. I do enjoy all your posts to all the subjects involving the Wizard of Oz. David M. Okinaga (DrDave) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 15:18:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Gjovaag Subject: OZ: I'm only 14 (fwd) To: Dave Hardenbrook Okay, are there any Oz fans in Massachusetts/New England who can help this poor Oz fan? (Please send all replies directly to her, as she is not a "Digest" subscriber -- so far as I know...) --Eric Gjovaag ### Visit my "Wizard of Oz" web site! http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ ### ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:18:48 -0400 (EDT) From: KTofOZ@aol.com To: tiktok@eskimo.com Subject: I'm only 14 hi, i'm a big oz fan but i live so far away from the conventions and i'm only 14 so i can't go myself and my parents won't take me. is there anything in the MA or New England area that has to do with oz? thank you for the help my email is - KTofOZ ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 16:48:00 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission: To: Dave Hardenbrook Hi, Can somebody please tell me if the covers of the Silver Princess in Oz and Ozoplaning with the Wizard of Oz are still under copyright protection? If they are still under copyright protection, how can I get in touch with the Neill estate, or whoever owns them? Thanks a lot. -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 97 16:10:13 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FAMILY TIES: Tyler wrote: >Dave (I mean no disrespect, Don Hardenbrook :-) ) Do you know my uncle, Tyler? (Not that it much matters -- We haven't spoken for years -- But I'm curious.) MUNCHKINS: Nathan wrote: >On tonight's episode of "Seinfeld," two midgets, who looked suspiciously like >Jerry Maren (one of the Lollipop Guild guys from the MGM movie) and his wife, >appeared. Does anyone know if this was they? I shouldn't be suprised. Jerry Maren had a guest spot some years ago on one episode of _The Odd Couple_. HAPPY (AND LONG) ENDINGS: Nate wrote: >An Oz book without a happy ending would be wrong, so I never minded the >party. It was the logical conclusion. There are countless books, movies >and plays that I like that don't have cheerful endings, but that just >wouldn't work for Oz. Melody and I discussed this while we were writing _That Ozzy Feeling_. We like endings that are not only happy but that are long and drawn out (i.e. the big party Ozma throws at the end). This is opposed to, say, _Aladdin and the King of Thieves_, in which the happy resolution is over in two seconds. I was looking forward to Disney giving us a long, festive wedding for Al and Jasmine, and was very disappointed to find that Disney trreated it as a quick, "Don't blink or you'll miss it" thing. BCF: Remember everyone that next Monday is when we start _Emerald City_... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 23 - 24, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:11:13 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-97 Bob: >I have passed it on to my sister who teaches high school. We discussed the issue last night and she said that an increasing portion of the teenage population nowadays is unwilling to "dig" for answers, that they want things handed to them. Problem solving is not emphasized. She (and I) have no immediate reason for this phenomenon, but fear for the future. Not only will these people be running things, but they will not be able to feel the delight that accompanies discovery.< Don't know how old you are, but I was a child when TV was starting to catch on. It seemed to me that the students in higher grades, who had been less exposed to TV, were able to think up projects and carry them out better than the more TV-exposed students in my own grade, who could come up with projects and ideas, but--alas!--lacked the motivation to carry them through to completion. Digging for answers probably seemed more interesting to teenagers before distractions like TV, video games, etc. existed. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:08:18 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 Liz: >Melody and I discussed this while we were writing _That Ozzy Feeling_. We like endings that are not only happy but that are long and drawn out (i.e. the big party Ozma throws at the end). This is opposed to, say, _Aladdin and the King of Thieves_, in which the happy resolution is over in two seconds. I was looking forward to Disney giving us a long, festive wedding for Al and Jasmine, and was very disappointed to find that Disney trreated it as a quick, "Don't blink or you'll miss it" thing.< People who seem more fascinated with endless variations of violence, destruction and fights than with endless variations of creative, wonderful, happy stuff worry me. (Yes, the folks that did the above to "Aladdin and the King of Thieves *really* worry me!) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 23:22:50 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Diane: Your question is an interesting one. We have discussed age-as-you-wish versus no-aging versus stop-growing-age, but have never, as far as I know, discussed what KIND of age-as-you-wish is implemented. THompson said specfically that you are supposed to formally state your desire, once per year, on your birthday. I'm not very comfortable with this, though. It seems like a great formality for something so personal and intimate as the rate at which you age. Besides which, many people would forget and "lose" a few years every now and then (which may actually explain why some people age slowly over time). IMHO, unless other interpretations come to light, it is probably an unconscious desire. In other words, the magic (or Magic Machine, according to Aaron) detects how old you "really" want to be, and keeps you at that age. ********** SLIGHT SPOILERS FOR MARCH LAUMER ********** The notorious and oft-maligned March Laumer wrote a story about Button-Bright aging, since he fell ito a well for years and forgot to make the birthday wish. Also, he used the forgetfulness (or lack of caring) to demonstrate why Cheeriobed was so much older than Orin, although in this case it might not have been necessary. ********** END OF LAUMER SPOILERS ********** Kiex: Home and culture are what you make of it. Many people in the big city yearn for the peace of a small town. You don't have to be at the party-center of the Universe (which, by the way, carries a host of other problems) to be cultured or to lead an enjoyable life. Of course, as I write this, I'm planning to move to Tempe, near ASU, the "party-center" of Phoenix... David: The only one I can ad is .uk which indicates being from the United Kingdom. David: Thanks for the support. I intended "A Generic Oz Story" to poke gentle fun at the cookie-cutter formula for Oz books. If I had desired "corrosive satire", I might have made fun of Oz itself, and been much more intense. Doug: Of the five Eric Shanower graphics novels, _BLue Witfch_ is my favorite. Each story stand alone, so you don't need to read them in publication order. The others are all very good, and they are all of more or less equal quality, IMHO, with _Blue Witch_ a little better than the others. Nathan: I've toyed with the idea that Nomes are fairy Gnomes. John K: Thanks for the tip. I should have said that the ban was already there are the time of the inquisition. I didn't know when it was enforced. Nathan: While I dis on many things in Oz books, I'll agree with you that a bad ending just would not be Ozzy. Check out this alternate timeline from _Emerald City_. "The first wave of Phanfasms broke through the crust and the terrified citizens fled in terror. There was no place to go, though, as the horrific creatures swept through Oz bringing a reign of destruction wherever they went. Soon, everybody was killed or captured, and the Land of Oz became a desert wasteland of broken dreams" Hmmm, not to Ozzy, huh? David: Applying "pagan" in this case was probably a poor choice of words on our part. The phrase "Pagan Christian" refers to pre-Protestant-Reformation Christians who do not acknowledge the authority of the Pope in Rome (Actually the Azores, in the current game, but that's another story). Dave: The only relative of yours I've met is your dad. I used "Don" as in a Mafia don, which should have been a lower-case "d". :-) --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 08:16:50, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest Diane: Welcome, to another New Englander! Are you a native or just going to school? Eric Gjovaag wrote: >Okay, are there any Oz fans in Massachusetts/New England who can help this poor Oz fan?< I replied privately to this fan what little I knew (being in N.H), but I am also interested to hear if there is anything around. I know of a store in N.H. that is all WOO (mostly MGM). I have a few questions for IWOC members and conventioneers. 1) Is it possible to have a convention in New England? 2) Are there already too many conventions? 3) Would there be enough interest in New England? 4) Who could I contact about pursuing a convention? Any feedback would be grateful! Aging in Oz: Is there any place in the first six Baum Books, where Dorothy has said to have aged? She spent a lot of time home in Kansas in between her visits to Oz. Is there a reference to her aging? What is the HACC for her first visit and her final return in EC? To Oz, or not to Oz. There is no question! Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 23:33:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Olderman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 David: I don't know about Card's Rushdie statement. I just know that ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD are very good books. The third one, XENOPHILE, isn't as solid...more self-indulgent, but the man's a good writer. You're nailed it about newcomers to OzCons. Good analogy. Oldtimers have been aware of the problem for years, and we do try to address it, but there's so little time to catch up on being with each other... I don't remember a Butterfield exchange in NYC, but I wouldn't have necessarily known all the exchanges, either. Most of my cals were in Westchester County. It seems to me, though, that I've been told that there was such an exchange. John K.: The connection I meant was not between Capitalism and Calvinism. I would never presume to expound or argue about something I know little about. G'night. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:03:05 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 Dr. Dave: > 1. I read the post from Christine R. Gray about the Land of Oz Amusement Park located somewhere in North Carolina. Does anyone have any verification on this place. Can anyone out there in Ozma please respond to this question. Have any of you ever heard of this place and if so where in North Carolina is it???? I have never heard of such an amusment park.< The Land of Oz amusement did exist, back in the 1970's, and it was located on Beech Mountain in Western North Carolina. I visited it myself a couple of times. Alas! It is no longer in business. I wrote about the park in a lengthy post in an earlier Digest. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 20:36:51 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 Diane, Don't lurk so much, I enjoyed your post, especially: > I mean, does one consciously decide when to age, or is it more of an > unconscious process, like when you have done all that can be done at a > certain age, you move on? I found this an interesting concept, well worth further discussion. Being your basic unbeliever, I am not well versed in specific religions other than Catholicism (I term myself a recovering Catholic), but what you proposed seemed to contain a certain amount of Zen. I discussed it with my cousin who is a Zen Buddhist and she agrees. Jeremy, During late 1959-early 1960 I was trained in field radio repair by my uncle :-) at Ft.Gordon, near Augusta, GA. One of my fond memories of Georgia (once I got away from the immediate environs of the post) is of a weekend at Rome, Ga. The people couldn't have been friendlier or more welcoming. > Every time I would look something up, nearby words would catch my > eye and I would learn several new words. > > I've always enjoyed looking words up in the dictionary (and frequently > find myself then browsing through a whole page or two picking up more > new words), but I know I'm Weird. Doesn't seem weird to me. Called serendipity. > liberals (because they oppose standards) You know, sometimes discussions on the "Digest" remind me of Alice's conversation with Humpty Dumpty. > "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful > tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--no more nor less." > > "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master > __that's all." I consider myself a liberal and am in favor of scholastic standards. Dictionary definitions of the word do not refer to them at all. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 22:58:49 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Twodays Oz Growls Michael Gessel - Thank you for the info. It is always warming to find how much good information is available from our Digesters. I wondered about this because I know what bookstores do with paperbacks they can't sell. They rip off the front covers and pitch them in the dumpster. It just makes me ache. Sigh. Magic - Always an interesting topic to me. I have long thought there are two basic types. In-born talents the application of which exact no penalty on the practitioner. Fairies are an example. The second type exacts a price from the practitioner. That is why witches, for example in Snow White, and Oz (Mombi and the WWW and WWE) are old-looking and gnarly. I don't think it is simply that they are chronologically old. Was Gandalf just plain old or did his practice of magic contribute? I don't know if this can be thought of as the division between white and black magic. I have the feeling it is a bit more complicated than that. Then there are objects of power that exact a price just by being in contact with them. Bilbo and Froda and the ring of power. Several characters in Tad Williams "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" series have contact with swords of power and pay a price. Etc. What do you think? Butterfield, Oregon - Gee, I drove through it two years ago without even noticing it. I may be through there again this fall and will look for it. David - Glad to see you back. Now the Digests are long enough that I can use the express download which only takes less than 30 seconds. Shorter Digests oddly take minutes with the regular mail download process. Dave - This Digest is about communicating. I enjoyed your "Sig" when it appeared. I don't need to read it any more so it serves no useful purpose as far as I'm concerned. It just uses space. Same for atticus. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:09:54 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 Dave: >And speaking of four-letter words, last night I was flamed by someone (*not* anyone on the Digest) for my "Blithe Spirit" signature...The flame did indeed contain profanity so I won't repeat it. However, I will ask the group if they think my Internet signature is too long and wish me to drop it.< There *are* anti-joy, anti-love, anti-creative jerks out there--and they seem to be multiplying. Don't listen to 'em and keep that sig! David Hulan: What do you think of the idea that Glinda was not born a fairy, but given a fairyhood later in life? That might grant her the indestructibility the Wizard claims for both Ozma and her... Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 01:56:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Haldehoff@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest Tyler: In which book did Ozette first appear? The earliest book that I have read in which she appears is _Enchanted Gnome_. The hundredth year of Glinda's reign was being celebrated in _Purple Prince_. "Gnome," spelled in the traditional manner, could easily mean "one who knows." I believe the word "gnomus" means "knowledge" in some language (Latin, perhaps). Liz: Knowing that the ending is going to be happy does not necessarily spoil it. What does spoil it is looking at the ending before you have reached it, which I often do. Like many other Oz readers, I am glad that the stories end happily. While I greatly enjoy both the words and the stories in Oz books, the books also contain another element that pleases me. This is the development of Ozian history, geography, flora, fauna, and the like that the books contain. Douglas: _Forbidden Fountain_ features our old friends Ozma and Kabumpo, as well as two new characters: a lamb named Lambert and a highwayman named Toby Bridlecull. It is a very good story, although it is considerably shorter than _Merry Go Round_,. Robin: Glinda's creation of the Forbidden Fountain was mentioned in _Emerald City_, our next BCF. Dave: Actually, there are radioes used in the Oz books. The Shaggy Man uses a radio device to communicate with Ozma in _Tik-Tok_, and the Wizard has a Magic Radio that allows viewers of the Magic Picture to hear what the people in the Picture are saying. Common Ozites probably do not have radio access, however. That's all for now. Nathan Mulac DeHoff ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 04:55:05 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission In the 8/22 Digest, John Kennedy used the phrase, What does that mean? IIRC, both NYC's famous Culinary Institute of America, and that other place of the same initials in Virginia have been around for many years and are still going. On parties at the end of the Oz books: It's a nice way for the story to conclude. The party emphasizes the happy ending and the young reader becomes a vicarious participant. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 16:18:16 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello, I'm back again! I was just visiting a sort-of boyfriend a bit north of here and I found the coolest thing! There is a little (and I mean LITTLE) village near his hometown named Baum! I was so excited. I plan to go back just to take pictures. I don't think it bears any significance to our Baum, but it is worth looking into just to know where it's name came from. At any rate and, needless to say, I have some more catching up to do. Bruce Gray: I have a cousin w/ the same last name who is a chiropractor in Harrisonburg VA. . . any chance you know who he is? Bob Spark: Don't feel badly about geezerhood! I've reached it, too! I noticed a change in attitude of my students towards school when I taught from when I was in school. School was a priviledge and a duty to me; I never considered dropping out. Now, I'm surprised at the number of students who think of school as an option and punishment. I actually had a father sign his 16 year old son out of school for good because he wanted to stay at home and watch TV! That blows my mind, scares me, and brings a tear to my eye. What's going on? Scott: No, 21 is not too young. As long as you can handle the consequences of man-woman relationships as opposed to the "Do you like me? Circle yes or no." type. Besides at 21, if you stick to what we consider girls at least age-wise, you might be arrested! :-) Robin: I cosched after-school drama when I taught and my first production was Shakespeare's _Midsummer_. I always found that the students were shocked at the raunchy and off-the-wall sense of humor in his works. Richard Bauman: Sure . . . I had written to Shanower asking about his illustrations in reference to the reseach I've been doing in grad school. he sent a complete lis tof his published works, non-oz and oz, a letter answering my questions about influences, why he chose to illustrate, any social values he felt could be seen in his work, etc., and a few articles from the Bugle of which I have since obtained copies. He did name a few of Neill's influences, which have given me some further sources of research for my particular project. I have also rebought his graphic comic books. I had a hosue fire two years agao and lost everything. So, my Oz collections was destroyed and I have been working to rebuild it since. i guess since I am an extremely lucky person and still living, that was a small price to pay, but I lost a few years of research in the process. Is there anything in particular you wanted to know about Shanower? Tyler, what is "Oz for GURPS"? Craig: I taught in Frederick County, VA and lived in downtown Winchester. Fairfax County is certainly one of the most progressive counties in VA, though. Being so close to DC, they have more of a nedd and incentive to be so I guess. Have you ever experienced the annual Apple Blossom Festival in Winchester? Dave Hulan: I, too, think _St. Louis_ is the best Garland after _Oz_. Wasn't Grapewin also in _The Grapes of Wrath_? I remember seeing that in HS and that being one of the reasons I paid attention. Scott C: i have that Oz card, too, but would like to get some more copies. BTW, it is from the J.Ward Company, but I have no address. Nathan Mulac DeHoff: I go to IUP! How long have you been here?I live in Indiana ( yes, I'm a resident). I graduated fromIUP in '93 prior to Honors College creation, but am now working on the MA as i said before. Pack warm clothes - it was only @52 here . . . you'll have to look me up when you get back and we can get together and talk Oz. I'm in the book. Well, that's about all for now. . .I'm going to rest for awhile; I caught a nasty cold and fever deal while playing around on the before-mentioned sort-of boyfriend's dairy farm out in the cold and rain here in lovely Indiana (Nathan should understand). Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 21:05:20 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 ROBIN: >Glinda created the Fountain of Oblivion? I think you're right, but I'd >forgotten that. Where is the info given? I'll have to rethink my position... from _the emerald city of oz_, chapter 27: "'It is said that once--long, long ago--a wicked King ruled Oz, and made himself and all his people very miserable and unhappy. So Glinda, the Good Sorceress, placed this fountain here, and the King drank of its water and forgot all his wickedness.'" DAVID HULAN: >It's pretty easy to scroll past even long >signatures, though, as I do with Atticus's having read it several times. scroll no more. i've changed it, as i've been meaning to for some time. atticus * * * "The crash of the whole solar and stellar systems could only kill you once." ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 18:17:47 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: For Digest: Ozzy Newsgroup Hi, I was thinking of starting an Ozzy newsgroup and was wondering what everybody else thinks about the idea. First, let me briefly explain how to start a newsgroup in the "standard" newsgroup hierarchy (comp, humanities, misc, news, rec, sci, soc, and talk) for those who don't know. 1) A request for discussion (RFD) is sent to news.announce.newgroups. The details of the new group are discussed and the group may be changed. There can be several RFDs posted for one group (2nd RFD, 3rd RFD, etc...) 2) When the newsgroup is agreed on, a call for votes (CFV) is send to news.announce.newgroups. This is a vote for the newsgroup. At the end of about a month the results are posted. If there are at least 100 Yes votes, and the YES votes are more than 2/3 of all the votes, a special message is sent to all the newsgroup servers and the newsgroup is added to the servers. Now, that that's over, what do you think of the idea of starting a new newsgroup? My proposed name is rec.arts.oz. Also, the newsgroup should allow people to post messages having to do with both the books and movies. I am not sure about buying, selling, and trading Ozzy things. Please e-mail me at dblhockey@geocities.com. Do not e-mail me with your opinions at wizardofoz@iname.com (my primary e-mail address). As soon as we agree on all these things I will post the RFD and then the CFV and will try my hardest to get a newsgroup for Oz. For more infromation on the newsgroup creation process, you can see the articles at http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/usenet/newgroup/ -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:02:51 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-17-97 Robin: My Oziana finally came! (At least the copy I paid for--the pair of contributor's copies haven't arrived yet.) Noticed some of the illos for "Forbidden Cave" were reduced to postage stamps. The ones closer to original size reproduced well, though. From the slight jaggies, looks like your printer did the same thing I did in many of the illos in SBM 1--scanned 'em in and popped them in place in Pagemaker or QuarkExpress. Liked the flush right, ragged left treatment of the text at the beginning of the story. Tyler: Loved your Generic Oz Story! Looking forward to Generic Oz Story 2--which probably goes like Generic Story 1 only it ends with Timmy and Tammy deciding to live in Oz. :-) Dave: Your E-Mail of Oz leaves only one question--how can your fictional computer company afford to give computers away? :-) Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 10:17:41 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: re: Ozzie Digest 8/22/97Subject: Subject: Diane, Don't lurk so much, I enjoyed your post, especially: > I mean, does one consciously decide when to age, or is it more of an > unconscious process, like when you have done all that can be done at a > certain age, you move on? I found this an interesting concept, well worth further discussion. Being your basic unbeliever, I am not well versed in comparative religions other than Catholicism (I term myself a recovering Catholic), but what you proposed seemed to contain a certain amount of Zen. I discussed it with my cousin who is a Zen Buddhist and she agrees. Jeremy, During late 1959-early 1960 I was trained in field radio repair by my uncle :-) at Ft.Gordon, near Augusta, GA. One of my fond memories of Georgia (once I got away from the immediate environs of the post) is of a weekend at Rome, Ga. The people couldn't have been friendlier or more welcoming. > Every time I would look something up, nearby words would catch my > eye and I would learn several new words. > > I've always enjoyed looking words up in the dictionary (and frequently > find myself then browsing through a whole page or two picking up more > new words), but I know I'm Weird. Doesn't seem weird to me. Called serendipity. > liberals (because they oppose standards) You know, sometimes discussions on the "Digest" remind me of Alice's conversation with Humpty Dumpty. > "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful > tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--no more nor less." > ... > "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master > __that's all." I consider myself a liberal and am in favor of academic standards. Dictionary definitions of the word do not refer to them at all. Bob Spark PS. I originally sent this last night as a reply to the "Digest" and then got it back this morning as undeliverable for the last 12 hours, so I resent it. I hope I am not duplicating things. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 16:39:30 -0500 From: Bea & Herschel Premack Subject: Aberdeen's Festival X-MSMail-Priority: Normal I thought you might be interested in what the Aberdeen festival is all about, so sending on a copy of our mission and goals: L. FRANK BAUM OZ FESTIVAL THE DAKOTA HERITAGE MISSION STATEMENT To increase public awareness of the historic, literary, and artistic connections of L. Frank Baum, author of the Wonderful Wizard of Oz, to the Aberdeen area culminating in an annual Oz festival. GOALS l. To provide opportunities for the public to learn more about the life of L Frank Baum, particularly the historic link between Baum and the Aberdeen area. 2. To encourage the preservation of the Baum legacy in the Aberdeen area. 3. To explore and enjoy the legacy of Baum's literature, plays, music and films through a wide spectrum of activities. 4. To provide activities which will contribute to the education and well-being of our community and region. 5. To plan continued development and growth of the festival. To fulfill these goals we have: 1. launched an educational program in all of our schools K-16 as well as community "life long learning", etc: involving broad base from literature, history, the arts, etc. We have a pamphlet coming out that relates ideas and curriculum collected and to be shared in Aberdeen and across the state. 2. worked with the catalogue and preservation of the Baum collection in our Library .... educating on historical landmarks in the community....promoting the booklet "L Frank Baum's Aberdeen" 3. gathered plays, music, books, film....again educating committees and public about his works 4. did and doing historic displays, photographic exhibits, art exhibits, theater, etc in Aberdeen and aroundthe state. 5. putting it all together for an annual festival in our Storybook Land park. Enough for now, another day will send info on what actually went on at the festival and details about how to get the materials we are developing Bea ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 24 Aug 97 14:19:10 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MY PERSONAL FEELINGS ABOUT THE SHANOWER GRAPHIC NOVELS: IMHO, they have a rather "dark" quality -- The plots are more Toliken-esque than Ozzy IMO and virtually devoid of humor. That said, I think the artwork is excellent (albiet lacking just a bit in the Ozzy whimsicalness of a W.W. Denslow, John Neill, or Melody Grandy) -- The illustrations are very detailed and true-to-life (and unlike Neill his girls don't all look alike!) -- and I think the art alone is well worth the money to get all five. A BRITCOM OBSESSIVE'S DEFINITION OF "NOMES" VS. "GNOMES": :) Nome: A creature that lives underground amongst the rocks and makes much trouble for Oz and other fairylands. Gnome: A funny little man that is frequently rendered as a cute statue in the gardens of many homes and hotels, including at Fawlty Towers -- Until Basil used his to vent his frustration against inept builder Mr. O'Reiley. :) :) "LET THEM EAT TELEGRAPH"??: Nathan wrote: >Common Ozites probably do not have radio access, however. But this IMHO would be a form of "elitism" which I would say is Un-Ozzy. Ozma doesn't deny anything that she has to the general public except magic, which is a special case because magic really can do harm in the wrong hands. But thanks for pointing out the existance of radios in Oz -- Now I know that my radios in _Locasta_ are "Ozzy"... GURPS: Bompi wrote: >Tyler, what is "Oz for GURPS"? Tyler will have to verify this, but I think it's "Generic Universal Role-Playing System". There has been vague talk about a putting together a possible Oz Role-Playing game for quite a while... A FURTHER REMINDER: We start _Emerald City_ as the BCF tomorrow! -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 25, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:19:36 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20 & 22-97 Thanks to Dave and also Douglas Silfen, who both sent me copies of the 8/20 Digest. 8/20: Bruce: I like MAGICAL MONARCH OF MO too, but does your saying you've read two Baum non-Oz books and liked MMM mean that you didn't like the other one? And if so, which one was it? My local library _has_ copies of all the Baum Oz books (and most of his non-Oz fantasies). Getting them to stock the other FF books that are in print might be a little harder. And welcome to active participation in the Digest! Bob S.: It is, of course, true that their seniors have complained in much the same terms about the behavior of teen-agers at least back to the times of Socrates, and probably earlier. I'm not sure there was ever a time when most teen-agers were willing to "dig" for things, or whether the apparent increasing laziness is more a case of the observer getting older and memories of past times getting rosier. Otherwise this continous downward spiral for the last couple of millennia should have reduced the numbers of energetic types close to zero by now, shouldn't it? Ruth: Congratulations on the book! I'll see if the Naperville library will order it. Garrett: As others have said, that mountainous strip isn't mentioned in any of the FF or Baum's connected works. Non-FF authors may have used it. (I think Jeremy mentioned a couple of cases.) Douglas: Interesting to see your ratings of the Oz books you've read so far. I don't agree with all of them, but your taste is as valid as mine. (And it might be true that after you've reread them as many times as I have, if you do, that your opinion will change as well. I liked _Tik-Tok_ a lot when I first read it, but haven't found it stands up to rereading that well.) Robin: The fact that a lot of people hated their high school English classes is no aspersion on you, or any other high school English teacher other than the ones those people had. There are good and bad teachers of English, as well as any other course, and if you're unlucky enough to get one (or more) of the bad ones the odds are you'll hate your English class. I unfortunately had a really bad one for three of the five years I was in high school, and mediocre ones the other two. (My high school was 8-12; I didn't flunk a year...) To throw two cents into the words-vs-story discussion, C.S. Lewis discusses this in one of his books - title was _An Experiment in Criticism_ or something like that - and uses it to make the distinction between mythic stories and those that aren't. A mythic story is one that still grabs the reader regardless of the words it's expressed in, including just a quick plot summary. This doesn't mean that there aren't better and worse versions of mythic stories, but that the story line in such a story is strong enough to withstand almost anything. Other stories depend entirely on the words to make them work. (I read the book a long time ago and may not be entirely accurate as to what he said; I welcome correction by someone who's read it more recently or remembers it better. But I thought he made a good point.) 8/22: Diane: Welcome to participation! There seems to be some degree of conscious control over aging, since Pompadore says in _Kabumpo_ that he's never going to be 18 again. Presumably he decided to become 19 (or older) before his next birthday. Neill refers to a "stop-aging" age that's fixed for a given family - in Number Nine's I think it was 12 for the boys and 10 for the girls - but I always take Neill's data with a considerable grain of salt. _I_ think that people in Oz can age if they want to, but that it's purely voluntary (though it may be that babies age normally until they're old enough to decide for themselves). Jeremy: ISTR that Gili is back in Israel for the summer and said she would be very busy, so she unsubscribed temporarily but said she'd be back when school started again. (I think that was Gili. I remember one of our regulars doing that, anyhow.) In Oz books, there's no difference between Nomes and Gnomes except that Baum and Snow spelled it one way and Thompson and Neill the other. (I don't think Cosgrove/Payes or McGraw mentioned them.) Douglas: I liked MERRY-GO-ROUND better than FORBIDDEN FOUNTAIN, but not by a great margin. Ozma and Kabumpo are two of the main characters in FF, but the other main characters are new, although of course the familiar ones all have cameos. It's definitely worth getting from the IWOC. The Shanower graphic novels? I haven't reread them in quite a while, so this is a little stale, but: ENCHANTED APPLES: Some interesting new characters and a plot that threatens the very existence of Oz, even though the disaster is motivated by love. Shanower hadn't quite gotten the hang of drawing Ozma yet. SECRET ISLAND: A sweet story that deals with an exploratory expedition but is really about the idea that when you grow up you have to put away everything from your childhood. (Some overtones of Thompson's "Princess of Cozytown", which I imagine Shanower has read.) Oz itself isn't threatened. ICE KING: My personal favorite; Ozma is kidnapped and various Ozites have to go to the Ice King's dominions and rescue her. Lots of adventure, with the final victory coming at the cost of a major personal sacrifice. FORGOTTEN FOREST: More directly related to SANTA CLAUS than the rest of the Oz books, though Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Sawhorse play important roles. It's more of a war story than anything else, and most of it takes place outside Oz. The one I liked least of the five. BLUE WITCH: Almost SF, with Dorothy and the Scarecrow having to figure out how to break a time-loop. My second favorite. All of these books are much more about love, in its various aspects, than is true of the FF books (with the possible exception of SILVER PRINCESS). They also run much darker than the FF (with the possible exceptions of OJO and MIMICS). Or so I see them. Tyler: It's possible that my version of STREET ATLAS USA (2.0) has Butterfield, OR, and I ignored it because it was clearly not a place Baum would ever have been near, nor that he might have found on a map and thought it was near Kansas. I can't get SAU to open at the moment (for some reason it won't open without a printer available, and I'm still trying to get my printer software to work after reformatting my hard drive a couple of days ago when it developed some problems Norton couldn't fix), so I can't check. Robin: I make a fair number of typos as I go along, but I usually try to reread what I've written before sending it (for one thing, it makes it clearer to me when I've said something that needs context that I didn't provide), and catch most of them then. Do I want to write _The Love Magnet of Oz_? It was your idea, so if you want to write it do so by all means. If you don't, and nobody else wants to, then I probably will in another year or so. I plan to write a book outside of Oz next, though. The statement that Glinda created the Forbidden Fountain is in Chapter 26 of EMERALD CITY - page 271 of the BoW edition. Ozma said it was "long, long ago," which implies that Glinda has been protecting Oz for a goodly while. Liz: I've never gotten the impression that anyone thinks Oz is on another planet in our universe, though some may hold that view. Ordinary physical events seem to be able to transport characters from various points in America and on the ocean to the vicinity of Oz in a short time. Because of the variety of points and the shortness of time involved, it seems unlikely that Oz is physically on our earth, unless, like Chris D., you simply ignore all the evidence that disagrees with that position. You can, of course, always say that magic gets into the trip in each case, and that magic prevents us from seeing Oz and associated lands or getting there without permission, but once you've said that you might as well say that it's on a planet coincident with earth that's only accessible through (possibly spontaneous) magic. A distinction without a difference. It seems entirely clear that Oz is not a place where, if you knew the coordinates, you could sail or fly to it. John K.: Since the upper class in Periclean Athens was just as horrified at being "in trade" as in 19th century Britain, I don't think you can really attribute it to Calvinism. In most societies through history, doing anything productive was looked down on by those who hadn't had to for a couple of generations or more. Nate: Talking about picking up the meaning of words from context, I can remember that for the longest time I thought there was a verb, "to misle", meaning to trick or fool. Eventually it dawned on me that I'd never seen it except in the past tense, "misled"... DrDave: The Oz theme park in North Carolina is, alas, no more. Melody gave us a verbal tour of it a while back, and it sounded like the kind of place that would definitely be worth a visit if one were in the vicinity, though probably not worth a Pilgrimage. Dave: When you say you and your uncle Don haven't spoken in years, is this because you haven't seen him to speak to in years or because of a family rift? (No answer needed if you'd rather not.) Hmm...gotta reread EC right quick now. And I'm caught up! David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:00:35 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Archive Hi, I have started an Ozzy Digest Archive on the web. The address is http://www.bendov.net/dblhockey/digest Don't forget to send me your comments on the Ozzy newsgroup -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:51:18 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Twodays Oz Growls Earl - The place in Virginia is the BPR. Bureau of Public Roads. :) Bompi - Thanks for sharing about Shanower. A house fire is the saddest thing I can imagine being a collector of paper. I have this wife who love candles.... lighted. I watch them like a hawk. Sigh. I was once almost burned to death in a fire so that doesn't help either. By the way, it sounds like "playing around with sort-of-boy-friends" is dangerous to one's health! :) :) David L. - Since we have Dave's Digest why do we need a newsgroup? Many of us barely have time for that as it is. Can't you drop your news items into the existing format? Radios in Oz - If there are radios in Oz that receive broadcasts from our world that would suggest Oz is in our world. Nes Pas? Is someone going to suggest interdimensional radio? Sunday regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 18:51:46 -0700 From: Robert Schroeder Subject: Ozzy Digest David Levitan: I am an avid fan of newsgroups, but alas, I am a bit down on them for the time being. An OZ newsgroups would be fun, but I fear that it would become like most of the other discussion groups on USEnet...full of spam, conspirity theories and religious fanatics, the latter being especially true with the discussions of magic and witchcraft that occurs in this digest. Call me what you may, but I do like the 'safe space' this newsgroup provides. Liberal KS OZ Festival: Growing up in the Amarillo TX area, I use to go to Liberal KS often, as I had several friends there, but never made it for the OZ Festival. I think this festival is fairly new. But I do understand that Liberal does put together a good party...parades, special tours of the "Dorothy's House Museum" and the like. I base this on attending one of Liberal's more famous festivals, the Pancake Festival held prior to Shrove Tuesday...ahh...the pancake races!! As for getting there, I hope you are driving, or taking a bus, as there is no major airline that services Liberal. I think the closest major airport is in Amarillo. Southern Kansas is VERY flat and dry, but the people are wonderful. Hope you have a great time there! Dave: About your sig. Don't worry about it. The person who flamed you is more than likely a massive cross-poster, which irks me more than long sigs. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:53:44 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 Bear, I enjoyed your musings on magic. I suppose that subconsciously I had the same opinion, but your comments allow me to clarify my thought processes (as much as one of my political stripe can) :-). Bob Spark PS. I apologise again for the duplicate posting yesterday. It wasn't intentional. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 22:57:14 -0400 From: "Melody G. Keller" Subject: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 Now that we're starting the discussion of "Emerald City of Oz" today--when I first read it, Dorothy's move to Oz seemed a violation of the concept "There's no place like home. (Kansas)" "Emerald City" also proved that even Baum could not get away with certain types of Big Changes to Oz stories.. Baum: Oz is going to be cut off from the Outside World forever. No more Oz books! Oz Fans: NOOOOOO! YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO US! WAAAAAAAAH! And the Fountain of Oblivion at the end could have been saved from deux ex machina status if Baum had introduced it near the beginning of "Emerald City of Oz"--he could have had Aunt Em & Uncle Henry come across it on their walk through the Palace gardens & ask questions about it. General Guph is a fine villain--he persuades the evil forces to work for him with pure--guff! "...he was a wise old Nome, and he knew that the best way to get along with Roquat the Red was to show that he was not afraid of him." We also learn that the Nome King has a Blackbird as one of his spies. This Blackbird is the one that sees the Belt in Ozma's palace after Dorothy leaves and reports the fact to Roquat. It's been said before in the article about the Emerald City palace, but it bears mentioning again--when the newly Ozified Em and Henry ask for poorer quarters that are more in their class, Dorothy tells them ALL the Palace rooms are as luxurious as theirs--and some even better. Jellia: Which means *I* have luxurious quarters too! (Let's see--looks like the emeralds in my gold bedstead need polishing again....) :-) "Emerald City" contains the first hint of what's to come with Ozma--Guph mentions that she has a fairy wand. Earlier she is still called "...the most beautiful girl the world has ever known...", Baum says that Oz is a fairyland, so the people were fairy people, but he apparently had not quite made up his mind to make Ozma a Fairy with a capital F yet. Melody Grandy ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:05:10 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission Bob C.: Where do you live in New Hampshire? I have family in Sunapee and a summer house in New London. Bob Spark: I remember Ft. Gordon - orange mud! (I still have a set of long underwear with orange knees.) And I was well treated in the area, on my one weekend pass. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:45:22 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 Melody: When I was a kid we didn't have TV (we got our first one when I was a junior in HS), but we listened to the radio a lot. Still, I think that was more stimulating to the imagination than TV, and it was easier to do other things at the same time as well. There's a fair amount of fighting and violence in _Magic Carpet_, but then there is in a lot of the FF as well. But nobody gets seriously hurt; about the worst is when Bungle scratches a villain on the nose. I think action is important in a book for kids, but it shouldn't be the whole thing. Tyler: Where did Thompson state that you were supposed to state on your birthday whether you wanted to age that year or not? I'm not doubting you; it's just that I don't remember it, and would like to know where to look for it. Pre-Reformation Christians who didn't acknowledge the authority of Rome were heretics or schismatics, but not pagans. I think when "don" is used as a title for a Mafia capo it's capitalized. But I think it's like "Sir," in that it should only be used with the first name included - i.e. Don Carlo, or Don Carlo Gotti, but not Don Gotti. (Drove me crazy in SPECKLED ROSE OF OZ when Abbott kept referring to Sir Wylie Gyle as "Sir Gyle.") Bob C.: I can't imagine that there would be any objection on anyone's part to having an Oz convention in New England, as long as it didn't conflict with one of the established conventions, and as long as the organizers were willing to do the work. (The IWOC might or might not be willing to include it in a mailing, but you could always get the Directory and cull out those in the vicinity from that.) Perhaps more appropriate, though, would be something like the Oogaboo parties they have in the Northwest, rather than a full-blown convention - at least until a sufficient enthusiastic core has been built up to think about actually having a formal site, with program, auction, etc. Good luck if you decide to try to do something about it. There isn't any specific reference to Dorothy's aging between _Wizard_ and _Emerald City_. We know, by combining various statements in the books, that Dorothy is physically about 11 when she comes to Oz to stay. Presumably she aged normally whenever she wasn't in Oz, which was most of the time. There are various theories about how old she was in _Wizard_, but I believe the HACC has her 6 and fits the first six books into a 5-year span. I personally prefer to have her 8 in WIZARD - that seems to fit her personality better - and to fit the first six books into 3 years. But I'm not concerned with trying to fit in the large number of non-FF books that take place while Dorothy is living in Kansas; Tyler and Chris D. are, and cutting the span down to 3 years crowds them a lot. (Dorothy ends up spending about as much time in Oz as in Kansas if you do.) Bob S.: I lived in Rome, GA, for a couple of years when I was very young (moved there when I was 2 1/2 and left at 4 1/2). I actually still have quite a few memories of the houses we lived in and of some events that happened in each, though I remember almost nothing of the city or the people I knew there. I know my mother liked it best of all the places we ever lived. I didn't really mean to impugn all liberals with opposing standards, but those who oppose standards are generally on the left politically. That's the mind-set that led to "social promotion" and the general watering-down of the curriculum over the past 40 years or so. Hey, Bear calls _me_ a liberal, and in some ways I am, though I consider myself more of a centrist. Bear (speaking of whom...): Glinda doesn't seem to have paid a price for her use of magic, though I suppose there could be a hidden one like Zixi's. Ditto for Gloma, the Adepts, Reera, and even Mrs. Yoop (so it's not good-vs.-bad). And the Wizard doesn't seem to have changed negatively since he learned real magic. I know what you're talking about in other fantasy, but I don't see that there's any particular correlation between the use of magic and physical deterioration in the Oz books. The ugly witches would probably have been just as ugly if they'd never touched magic. Melody: >What do you think of the idea that Glinda was not born a fairy, but given a >fairyhood later in life? That might grant her the indestructibility the >Wizard claims for both Ozma and her... It's certainly a possibility, but I think most of the evidence is against it. In SANTA CLAUS there's a pretty definite statement that the Cloak of Immortality bestowed on him is unique, and that therefore only one mortal would ever become an immortal. If fairyhood could be given to mortals then that whole conference of immortals in SC was unnecessary. MOPPeT is that Glinda is and always has been an immortal, but not a fairy. Fairies aren't, after all, the only indestructible immortals. I don't have a strong opinion as to whether Glinda is one of another race of immortals (the only member of it we've met) or if she's unique. Other lands don't seem to have comparable protectors, although the Queen of the Mermaids has something of the same role toward Pingaree, and Jinnicky may have toward Ev. Nathan: "Gnome" is the Greek word for "mind" or "understanding", and "gnomon" is "one who knows," used for judges and umpires, among others. Most of the Greek words beginning with "gno-" deal with mind, knowledge, understanding, that sort of things. "Gnomon" is also Greek for "sundial," and the term is still used for the triangular piece that sticks up in the middle of one. Paracelsus probably had the Greek word in mind when he coined the term "gnome" for earth elementals, and Baum probably backed into it when he translated "nome" as "one who knows." David L.: We had some discussion of the possibility of an Ozzy newsgroup a year or so ago; Eric Gjovaag brought it up. The consensus at the time was that we liked the Digest the way it was and didn't think an Oz newsgroup was needed, but maybe opinions (and the makeup of the Digest) have changed enough in the interim to make it fly this time. I'll vote for it if it comes up, but it's not something I'm eager for. Maybe you could explain why it would be a useful addition to the Digest? Dave: I don't think that common Ozites' lack of access to radio would have anything to do with elitism - I think that if anyone really wanted one, Ozma would be happy to provide. But most people in Oz don't have any need for radios, or probably any desire for them. (Besides, if everyone had a two-way radio, the plots of most of the books wouldn't work.) I think I'll go ahead and send this, and then if I have some time later in the day I'll try to do some comments on _Emerald City_. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:46:10 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Doug Silfen and Tyler Jones: There aren't really that many differences between Baum's Nomes and traditional Gnomes. The definition of "nome" as "one who knows" implies that they are the same, as that was approximately the derivation of gnome (from Greek gnome', adage or knowledge) given in most dictionaries at the time. (Most dictionaries now think the derivation is incorrect, and suggest that Paracelsus, who coined the word, was making an arbitrary coinage.) Baum's portrayal of Nomes was derived from the 19th century operettas that featured the gnomes and their king. Tyler's reference to the gnomes of legend is a bit misleading, as there aren't any, but Paracelsus's term "gnome" got merged with the legends of such beings as magic-working dwarfs, earth -mannekins (Rumpelstiltskin), kobolds, and goblins. The popular book on Gnomes that came out several years ago was translated from the Dutch, and the title there was "Kabouter" (I won't guarantee that I'm spelling that right -- it's cognate with kobold). As to whether all of these little people hanging about underground or in caves amassing gold should be considered the same as each other and the same as gnomes and nomes, that's hard to say. But gnomes and nomes are clearly the same. (On the other hand, the gnomes in "Santa Claus" and the nomes/gnomes in the Oz books might be different groups of gnomes, with separate cultures and rulers.) For more information on the subject, see the "Dunkiton pamphlet" on Gnome Matters that I published (contact me privately for my address and price if interested). I'm currently having fun putting together the Dunkiton pamphlet for this December, which will have an advertising theme -- a story by RPT written as an ad for Fairy Soap, some poems she wrote as ads for Charms Candy, and previously unknown drawings of Lincoln and Lee that Denslow did for a Decoration Day ad. Garrett and Tyler Jones: If I'm remembering right what strip of land you're talking about, it's across a very narrow inlet from the island of Hiland and Loland. I suspect that the strip of land is considered part of Hiland/Loland. (Also, although Hiland and Loland made up an island when originally introduced, in "John Dough," the "Tik-Tok" map made the pair part of the continent, and that strip of land is what was left when Haff and Martin decided to run an inlet of ocean around most of that territory to make the map correspond pretty well to both "John Dough" and the "Tik-Tok" map -- I imagine Tyler is right in thinking that they didn't want to have a stretch of Deadly Desert right up against the ocean). Atticus: Actually, the "Who's Who" appendix I offer does include "Where's Where" (the Gazeteer section), although not a "what's what." Dave Hardenbrook: You asked if people find long signature-lines objectionable. I don't know if it's exactly a matter of objecting to them, but after I've seen the same signature-lines (length doesn't matter) several times over, I do get tired of them. Skipping past them in reading (or even erasing them before I print out a copy of the Digest) isn't any particular problem, though. David Hulan: "Corrosive" does seem too strong a term, doesn't it? I think I'd call the "Generic" story "incisive satire" myself. // I think you're right that Betty Hutton played Annie in the movie of "Annie Get Your Gun," but there's another filmed version (filmed for tv originally, I think) that starred Mary Martin, and it airs more often. // You're right, the wording in "Tin Woodman" about no-aging is more flat-out than I'd remembered. Bear: Your comments on usefulness of getting a tutor when the teacher says "It's in the book" reminds me -- sometimes teachers who say things like that in class will be quite helpful in tutoring if approached outside class (during office hours, maybe). Bob Collinge: If you're interested yourself in hosting a regional gathering, or finding out if someone else would be, you might want to buy the current IWOC Directory and send off notes to the people in your area. You need to clear it with IWOC to put on a Club Convention, but starting off small with a one-day or one-evening party inviting people from the region doesn't need clearance. Emerald City: David Hulan as commented in the past on how poorly it's constructed, with many irrelevant episodes. I noticed also on this read through that some of the characters even are irrelevant -- Omby Amby and Shaggy go along on the tour, but have very little to say and almost nothing to do. Billina has more to do, as she joins Toto in causing trouble in some of more vulnerable little towns, but even she doesn't have much reason to be along. I wonder if Baum originally had plans for episodes that would have involved the extra characters more, or if he chose the Red Wagon passengers on a basis of might-come-in-useful and didn't feel like revising when he got to the end and hadn't used them all. In spite of the construction problems, though, I find the comedy in the episodes amusing, and like them individually. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:12:36 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-21-97 > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:00:37 -0400 (EDT) > From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) > Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission > > In the 8/20 issue Scott sahutchi asks, looking for women?> > A little young to settle down, but too young to look? Absolutely not. > One is never too young (or too old) to look. :-> I meant at women, as opposed to girls. Of course, right now, I prefer my friend Katherine over all others. I think she knows that, too, but she's seeing someone else. > Scott - You don't want to push Dave too far, he might change his mind. You > might want to consider limiting your demonstrations of poor taste. I was quoting Lia Brigg's conception of Ozma. I might make a student film of that book. It would be the easiest Oz book to film, and I could take her long descriptions and pull them along in a very artful and lengthy manner. I'm considering having a few cuss words in _Nikidik in Oz_. Michelle said I should go for it. What do you guys think? Continuing discussion of witches. I don't see why there could not be a Christian witch. If you doubt me, look up John 14:12. The former minister at my church, who retired recently and is trying to find a new church in Washington to be closer to his children and grandchildren) quoted that almost every Sunday. > David L: > It's not all that conclusive that Ozette was a fairy. In _Scarecrow_, it is > said that Ozma was "born of a long line of Fariy Queens". Implication: > Ozma's mother must have been a fairy. Very little lis known about this > woman. She appears briefly in a BEOO book. There is nothing to suggest that > she is or is not a fairy (or was a member of Lurline's band). IMHO, she > herself is descended from fairies, which would have made it easier for the > fairy Ozma to be born to her as a mortal child. It is interesting that Baum's fairy bands appear to be female-only, yet he describes them as having lineage. > > Doug: > According to Baum, "Nome" means "One who knows", one who knows where all > the gold and jewels are buried under the earth. While Baum may have simply > written the word that way to make it easier for children to read, the Nomes > in Baum's Oz are quite different from Gnomes of European legend and D&D > games. In my opinion, Nomes and Gnomes really are different, and Thompson > made a mistake when she changed the spelling. Aubrey makes that distinction in _Tip of Oz_. Aubrey's encounter with the Nome King will be told in _Nikidik in Oz_. She brought an army into the Nome Kingdom armed with egg-filled Nerf Blast-a-matics. She also carried a chainsaw to seem more threatening. I don't want to give away what happened when the two (Aubrey and Ruggedo) actually met. I suppose it is safe to mention Aubrey now, so I do. > > Scott: > If you recall from _Patchwork Girl_, Ojo lived his whole life in an > isolated cabin with Unc Nunkie, not the most glib source of info on the > planet. Ojo could not have known much about Oz and certainly not the ban on > magic which, at the time, could only have been around for a few years. Well, ignorance of the law is no excuse, which may be one of his points. It was just a suggestion. > actually, ozcot was in hollywood. as a child i saw the house where baum > lived in michigan, but don't recall the name or even if it had one. The Sign of the Goose, I believe... > Maybe it's because you phrase your observations so they sound like > attacks. Usually if a person is frequently misinterpreted it's a sign > that person is writing carelessly. Perhaps you could help me with this, I'm at a loss. At least I've either stopped doing what bothered Katherine, or else she understands me better now. Epistolary for me is one of the hardest types of writing. > There is, of course, the counter-argument that she didn't do anything > much about the Wicked Witches - but is that necessarily true? Could be > they were too strong magically for her to defeat directly, so she > arranged Dorothy's cyclone... Have you been watching _The Wiz_ too much? :-) > OZMA AND MILD PROFANITY: > Jellia asked me to say for the record that Ozma doesn't consider it a > nice birthday present to her to put (four-letter) words in her mouth... :) as I said. I was quoting Lia Briggs quoting Ozma. > > OZ NEWSLETTER: > I got an ad in the mail today for something called "Beyond the Rainbow's > Wizard of Oz Collector's Exchange". Does anyone know about this? Is it > for the MGM movie only? I believe this is listed in the credits of one of the many documentaries about the film, probably Jack Haley, Jr.'s _The wonderful Wizard of Oz: 50 Years of Magic_ (later extended and retitiled _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz: The Making of a Movie Classic_. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 97 15:16:06 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BAUM BUGLES: I have a question: Does the Oz Club approve of members selling their old Baum Bugles? I have some back issues that I am thinking of parting with... BLUE WITCH: I agree with David about the Science-Fiction aspect of _Blue Witch of Oz_ -- It could have been an episode of _Red Dwarf_! :) OZZY PLANETS: David wrote: >I've never gotten the impression that anyone thinks Oz is on >another planet in our universe, though some may hold that view. What actually happens in my Science Fiction novel is that Oz was on Earth in another universe up through the duration of the FF and then some; but in 1994 that "parallel Earth" got pulled into our universe, and was renamed "Nerrum", just to distinguish it from our Earth. Except for the heroines and heros of my novel, all "Outside World" visitors to Oz -- Dorothy, the Wizard, Betsy, Trot, Cap'n Bill, Peter, Jam, etc., etc., and also Dan in my Oz books -- are from analogous continents to Earth's that are on Nerrum. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 26-27, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:40:13 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-22-97 In _Nikidik in Oz_, Ozma had to break up a fistfight between Nikidik and Pipt. I love writing about children who are the adults and adults who act like children. I finally got to read two of Katherine's stories yesterday, and she is quite a brilliant writer. They're not Oz stories, so this is really a spam, but I wanted to promote her writing, even though you can't get _The Fine Print_ outside IUPUI. One was baout a guy born during the Hiroshima baombing whose father had been involved in nuclear testing, so he went around New Mexico on his bike, attempting to peddle A-bomb memorabilia, toy bombs that create the shape of a mushroom cloud, banks, penants, et al., that he was having trouble finding people willing to buy, but now and then, someone would. I usually go to movies alone. Of course, most film students/fans do. Katherine often does. Neither of us have seen too many this year. I saw a film on tape this morning called _Carl J. Sukenick's Alien Beasts_ which really needs to be seen for how bad it is. It has nudity and violence, so don't let the kids watch it. I saw Frank Morgan in Ernst Lubitsh's _The Shop Around the Corner_. I saw part of some film with Billie Burke. I saw Hal Sutherland's _Journey Back to Oz_ with Margaret Hamilton, and an episode of _Diff'rent Strokes_ with Ray Bolger. Has anyone seen Jackie Cooper's _Rainbow_? It's a Judy Garland biopic about the making of _The Wizard of Oz_ made for TV in 1978. Ironically, Piper Laurie played her mother. I just discovered the film in Cicero yesterday, but it was to far away for me to want to rent from that store, though I got six previously viewed obscurities, for $2.50 each, and some looked like they had not been viewed. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:09:42 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@stutz.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 The one plot thread that ties everything in _Nikidik in Oz_ together does not have a happy ending, but that's like expecting Irvin Kerchner to have a happy ending on _The Empire Strikes Back_. It would not have worked otherwise. In general, though, I agree that Oz books should have happy endings, though they can be more serious ones, such as in _The Blue Witch of Oz_. The ending of _Tip of Oz_ is a cross between those two types, then jumps to another area for one last glimpse at another character and a reflexive epilogue paving the way to _Nikidik in Oz_, actually events from about halfway through, though this may be the first Oz book not told in chronological order. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:45:34 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-24-97 I'm pleased to announce that I finally finished rereading _The Road to Oz_ this weekend and am ready to discuss it! Oh, wait a minute, what's this about the BCF having changed? Now we're doing _Emerald City_? But seriously folks, I'm reading (as usual) about three books at once. I just started Wallace Stegner's _Angle of Repose_ last night. Some of my other fave's have been fairly obscure to many of you, but I hope you know about this book. It won a Pulitzer prize. I'm also reading _What to Expect the First Year_. Yes, the baby could come any day now. The official due date is September 4, but we have a feeling it will be sooner. I won't bore you with all my observations/comments about RTO other than to remark that I'm surprised that nobody mentioned JRN's dig at WWD in the picture at the beginning of the chapter when Dorothy and co. finally arrive at the Tin Woodman's palace. Perhaps that's old hat to many of you, but I *always* get a kick out of it. Anybody: Is that Riley book still due out this month? I'm anxious to get it. Tyler: You had a spoiler in your latest posting for a March Laumer book. I still haven't read any and am intrigued. Are they available? Are they expensive or hard to come by? (I know this is probably on Dave's FAQ or Eric's web page, but I don't have ready access to either.) Bompi: I don't recall ever visiting Winchester, so I haven't been to the Apple Blossom Festival. Am I missing something? My time in Virginia has been split three ways between the Richmond area (high school), Charlottesville (college), and Fairfax (where my parents and sister currently live). I grew up in Montgomery County, Maryland, but never had much occasion to visit Virginia as a child. I just moved back to MontCo. after a hiatus that included stints in Northern California and the Deep South. Back to Emerald City: I *am* looking forward to rereading this, and hope to catch up with the discussion soon. EC was one of my favorites as a child. I especially liked the dual plots: Dorothy and co. traveling the countryside while the wicked Nome King tunnels below with his armies of nomes and other bad guys. I always thought Baum was at a creative peak when he dreamed up the Whimseys, Growleywogs and Phanphasms. To this day, these bad guys remain vivid in my imagination. Also, I remember as a child being utterly delighted that Aunt Em and Uncle Henry finally came to Oz. In some way it seemed to validate and even make possible my own desire to someday live in Oz and maybe marry Dorothy or Ozma. (I have been silent on this matter until now, but I finally confess to having had a sacriligious (sp?) romantic interest in one of these two lovely girls. Besotted, Craig ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:42:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-97 Dave, Many members sell their old Bugles. The Club doesn't really care. However I'd be interested in knowing why you want to sell them (unless they're duplicates). Peter ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:48:23 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Bear: I personally prefer to have threads of messages organized. The digest doesn't allow threaded messages. What do you mean by "Can't you drop your news items into the existing format?" Robert: We could start the group as unmoderated, and if there is too much spam and other stuff, I could always submit it for moderation. If there is truly a lot of off-topic stuff, I don't think there will be any trouble in getting it moderated. What good will an Oz newsgroup have: Well, there are a few reasons. First, you will be able to seperate your messages. Each part can be a direct response to another message, making the discussion more organized. I constantly have to look back to previous digests to find the original question that someone is replying to. Second, it will be easier for new Oz fans to find a newsgroup than the digest. although I was an Os fan for a long time, I only recently signed up to (and found out about) the digest. The latest Usenet clients can search for newsgroups on a specific subject, making it much easier to find a newsgroup than a digest And lastly, not all people want to sign up for a digest when, for instance, they want to ask just one question on the subject. Dave H.: What do you think about starting an Oz mewsgroup? -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:47:40 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-97 Bear: No particular reason why radio wouldn't transmit between dimensions. It wouldn't be hard to dream up a physical explanation, even, but more likely it's a magic effect. The only Oz radio that seems to transmit to our world is the one that was magically rigged to answer Baum; like the spontaneous transfer of people, most radio transmission seems to work only from our world to Oz. (I did think of one possible exception - the Ork may have gotten to our world from his home near Oz. But we don't really know that; the cave where he and Trot and Cap'n Bill fetched up was almost certainly part of the Oz-world, and Flipper may have never left it. Also, the Ork seems to have had some magical abilities of his own.) Melody: "There's no place like home," is a movie line (quoted from a song, and probably that was quoting a familiar cliche), and I don't recall anything in any of the books that indicates that Dorothy had any particular attachment to Kansas. She kept going back because she wanted to be with Uncle Henry and Aunt Em, not because she wanted to be in Kansas. Guph is indeed a fine villain. Piglet Press's tape of it (which, by the way, I highly recommend; it's _very_ well-done, even if I'd quibble at a few things) gives him a sort of Peter Lorre way of speaking, which seems to fit very well. There's a goshawk that spies for the Nome King in one of the books, too, IIRC - anybody remember which one? I don't think, though, that Guph is reliable about Oz. He puts Glinda north of the Emerald City, for instance. So I'm not sure that at that point Ozma's wand (which she definitely had as early as OZMA) had any fairy powers (or at least, any she knew how to use). Ruth: Right, Omby Amby and Shaggy don't do anything but interject an occasional comment, except for Shaggy's sneeze in the Cuttenclip village. Toto doesn't do much, either, but I guess he counts as one of the new citizens of Oz who's getting the Grand Tour, like Aunt Em and Uncle Henry and even Dorothy and the Wizard, none of whom seem to have seen most of the places they go. Actually, listening to the Piglet Press tape made me notice the number of lines Shaggy and Omby Amby had more than I ever did reading the book, since each has a distictive voice. They do talk a fair bit, though they're not really necessary. Scott H.: Using cuss words in an Oz book is fine as long as you don't care if it gets published, or are willing and able to self-publish. I can almost guarantee you that neither BEOO nor BoW will publish such a book, though. You have a female character named Aubrey? Interesting. That's usually a male name, but then a lot of originally-male names have been given to females in recent years. Leslie, for instance, is almost always female now. For that matter, I have a female cousin called Scotty, though it's true that "Scott" is her middle name and was her mother's maiden name. >> There is, of course, the counter-argument that she didn't do anything >> much about the Wicked Witches - but is that necessarily true? Could be >> they were too strong magically for her to defeat directly, so she >> arranged Dorothy's cyclone... >Have you been watching _The Wiz_ too much? :-) Actually, I've never watched _The Wiz_ at all. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:32:31 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Robert - What is a "massive cross-poster" so I will recognize one when I read one? ++++++++++++++++++++++++ You mean those? David - It's good to see you moving away from the left toward the center! :) >The ugly witches would probably have been just as ugly if they'd never touched magic. To continue this line of thought - How did you decide this? Is there something in the FF to support this? Scott - >I'm considering having a few cuss words in _Nikidik in Oz_. To what end? My grandfather had this sage view. "Profanity is a weak mind trying to express itself strongly." I never forgot it. That doesn't mean I dont do it. :) Oh Lord, "The Nome Kingdom Chainsaw Massacre." Beam me up. Dave - I know Oz is important in your life but you don't need ANYONE'S permission to sell your Bugles. :) I'm sure they won't drum you out of IWOC. Now on to TECOO: I would like to have some words with the previous owner (The one with the purple pen. Sigh! I wish they had numbered the color plates as I think I may be missing a couple.) p. 29 EC - 9,654 buildings, 57,318 people and .5M people in all of OZ. No disease, property, money or death. The EC always seemed smaller than that to me. I continue to be bothered by Baum's need for "slicing Crinkel" in the torture chamber and sticking pins in and pulling out hairs of Gupf. Is this necessary? p.46 Here we have Glinda "north of the EC." p. 71 Dave - All the male chickens are named Dan! By the way, at this time there were 1+11+86+300 chickens in the EC. Since they can't die there are now 666 squadrillion and two. p.81 In the non-PC line we have the pictures of Growleywogs. They certainly look like skinny Indians to me. p.88 It is refreshing to be reminded that there was once something called the "Protestant Work Ethic." This will probably come as a real shock to some of our younger members. Yes, there was a time when people really wanted to work and didn't feel the government owed them a living without any effort of their own. p.149 It is not allowed to kill and eat chickens but it is allowed to eat eggs, thus effectively killing potential chickens. Now where have I heard this thinking applied? p.201 Charles Dodgson wrote "Alice In Wonderland" in the 1860s if IRC. Does Bunnybury strike anyone as similar to Wonderland? p.236 Ah Rigamaroles. Anyone know any of them? p. 242 I never realized the source of current Liberal thought, but reading about the Flutterbudgets really makes it plain. Think how many things our governments are trying to protect us from that are only possibilities. Asbestos, all kinds of injuries, floods, global warming, the list is endless. I remember when New York created a Rat Abatement Department. Observers felt this would guarantee that NY had rats forever, else there would be no reason for the department. p. 290 This makes it clear that Oz is in our world as otherwise airships could not overfly it. p. 292 Refering to Glinda's book: "As soon as an event takes place, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, it is immediately found printed in my Magic Book." More evidence that Oz is in our world. P. 295-6 Well here our author tries to end the series. Or, was this a marketing ploy? Now we know the source of "Live Long And Prosper!" Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 23:33:23 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Robert: You can view the HACC by going to my web page at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tnj/homepage.htm There is no evidence that Dorothy aged at all between her first visit and the time she came to Oz to live permanently. This poses a quandary, since the books are 10 eyars apart in publication, and it seems that in this long stretch, Dorothy would have visibly aged. Her cumulative visits to Oz may have slowed her aging, but not by that much, since she was not in Oz for most of that time. This ties in with the question of how old Dorothy was at the time of her first visit and how old she was when she arrived to stay. In _Lost Princess_, Baum says that Dorothy is a year older than Trot and a year younger than Betsy. In _Giant Horse_, Trot says "me too" when Philador tells her that he has remained 10 years old for a long time. Implication: Dorothy is 11. Here are the factors in determining all of this: 1. At the time of _Wizard_, Dorothy was a small child, yet old enough to take care of herself and interact intelligently with her surroundings. 2. Dorothy could not have aged a lot by the time she came to live in Oz, since she is still a little girl. 3. Quite a lot happens between _Wizard_ and _Emerald City_, so squeezing the dates of those two books together cannot be done too much. After much discussion on the digest, I came up with these conclusions: 1. _Wizard_ takes place in 1899, when Dorothy was seven. 2. _Emerald CIty_ takes place in 1905. Dorothy's cumulative visits to Oz have slowed her aging down by one year, so she appears 12 when she arrives to stay. I wanted her to be 11, but I couldn't squeeze the first six books any further together and it is not likely that her visits took two years off her age. Some people do not think that 12 is a little girl, and in fact some people get offended if it is suggested that either Dorothy or Ozma is over the age of eight, but it's the best fit I could come up with. 3. Trot was agreeing with Philador only in the sense that she also has stopped her aging. She is not necessarily the same age as Philador. It's a tough call. Dorothy needs to be young, but not a baby in the beginning. A respectable amount of time passes between books 1 and 6, but not too much. Dorothy's visits can slow her age down some, but not a lot. In the long run, I think my theory works out pretty well. Dorothy is still a little girl, and the numbers don't run into each other. As David Hulan says, when you consider only the Famous Forty, you can cut down on the timespan and make Dorothy older in the first book. It's the non-FF material that forces me to lengthen it, though. Bear: Gandalf, as you will recall, was not really human. He was an Ainur (angel), and thus could appear as he wished. He chose a look that would grant him repsect as the classical wise old man. Nathan: In Atty's _A Wonderful Journey in Oz_, we meet Ozette and Ozara, Ozma's paternal grandmother, the wife of Pastoria. Lisa: GURPS stands for "Generic Universal Role-Playing System". It is a Fantasy Role-Playing Game, silimar to Dungeons and Dragons, except that it is of a much wider scope. Any fantasy or Science Fiction saga can be used as a backdrop. Bruce was working on an Oz GURPS campaign, and he has converted several of the Ozzy characters into GURPS format. That's what I was asking him about. David: The only case I've ever come across is _Dinamonster_ where it is strongly implied that Oz is on another planet in our Universe, with such statements as "Getting back to Earth" and some other things. I don't rate this book as HACC-worthy, though, so it;s statements are ignored. Bear: In the ordinary sense, I would agree, but my MOPPeT is that the Oz Universe is a much smaller palce that our own and it is intimately linked with our world, so receiving radio signals becomes possible, especially if the radios are magical in origin. David: I poked around Thompson a bit, but I did not find the passage. I know it's in there, though, and she mentions that all you have to do is state on your birthday that I want to remain the same age. I'll find it someday. Perhaps we should not have picked the word pagan, but we were young and foolish back in the mid-80's, and the word is here to stay. Ruth: You can observe the same thing in the large rescue party in _Glinda_. Most of them are just there. My mother re-read the Baum 14 several years ago and commented "I can't believe they're ALL going!" :-) Scott: Perhaps, as Dryads in _The Belgariad_, the faries breed true on the female side and simply use human males for the purpose of letting fairies be born as baby girls. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 20:58:30 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: for Oz digest Has anyone here read the Buckethead books TIN CASTLE OF OZ and RED REERA and the EASTER EGG HUNT (something like that :-) )??? If so, how are they? I ordered those 2 from Buckethead along with Melody's DISENCHANTED PRINCESS. I sent my check out last Monday and should receive the books any day now. My take on EMERALD CITY OF OZ...... ************SPOILER ALERT FOR REST OF MY NOTE********************* The mustering of the villains by General Guph is fascinating. It is the best aspect of the book IMO. Baum does a good job describing the villains as well as fleshing out the characters of the Nome kingdom. The way Aunt Em and Uncle Henry come to Oz is quite charming, but after that, Dorothy and friends travel to misc. place after misc. place and it gets a bit boring. My favorite misc. place is the place where Dorothy has to put the inhabitants back together. The town of the buns and doughnuts, etc is poor in my opinion. The ending is kind of strange because Ozma was able to destroy the Nome King's tunnel. I wonder why she didn't destroy it when their were no villains in it, just before their assault. She was monitoring the magic picture, so I thought it was odd that she didn't act before the villains made it to Oz. An average Oz book for me. Maybe a bit under average. Thank Ozma that the great books 7,8,9,11,13, and 14 follow!!! Doug Silfen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:02:24 -0700 From: Douglas or Lori Silfen Subject: for Oz digest 2 of 2 Ruth and others: Somehow I still can't picture the Nomes as Gnomes. I think of Gnomes and little fellows with hats on who fight Dwarves and Tolkienesque Goblins. I think of Nomes as dread enemies of Oz; a unique race. Douglas ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 07:12:32 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - The Price for Using Magic In the 8/25 Digest, David Hulan mentions he does not see evidence of morally good magic workers having paid a price for their craft. Perhaps the moral nature of what one does with the magic is the determining factor. It is only the magical bad deeds that exact a noticeable price. Therefor, as Glinda says in a certain movie, "Only bad witches are ugly." Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:21:46, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest Dave Hulan, Ruth B., and others: Thank you for your responses. I am thinking about organizing a regional "party" here in the North East. I think that your advice about starting small is a very good idea also. I will be contacting IWOC for their opinion as well. Any interest from New Englanders on the Digest? Earl: I live on the seacoast, although I have been to Sunapee many times. Scott: John 14:12 talks about the works of Jesus, and those of His believers. What has this got to do with witches? Dave Hardenbrooke: If you can sell your bugles, I might be interested. Thanks. (I do know that IWOC sells back issues as well) Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:15:04 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-97 Re: Oz Newsgroup One of the advantages of a newsgroup is that it allows everyone on the internet to get involved, post articles, and express their opinions on practically any subject. One of the disadvantages of a newsgroup is that it allows everyone on the internet to get involved, post articles, and express their opinions on practically any subject. It there are some who sometimes feel offended by other's opinions now, just wait until you see a newsgroup! Anything goes. A newsgroup is a lot less personal than the digest. (Well, in fact, a newsgroup isn't personal at all.) Having said that, I believe there will be an Oz newsgroup someday, along with, hopefully, the Ozzy Digest. Many newsgroups have mailing lists (which is what the digest is) as an escape from the regular spamed newsgroup. Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:34:18 -0700 From: "A.E. Schaible" Subject: Ozzy Digest DAVE: The Oz club couldn't care less if you sell your old Bugles, so go ahead. They are always on the auction table, and I am sure there are people who would want them, since I know more than a few people who are trying to make a complete set. Nate is actually, you could ask him if he needs any of the ones you have... David L: I think it would be cool to have a newsgroup. I have never actually talked on one, but it sounds like a fine idea to me. I will vote for it, if you decide to pursue it. DAVE HULAN: How did you know what I was thinking? Good paraphrase of the main point in the Lewis book. I don't totally agree with his definition of myth for myself, though, and it doesn't fit in all senses the spirit of the Oz books. He says "One might have expected the plots of the crudest adventure stories to (affect us in the same way regardless of the words chosen) but this is not so. You could not fob them off with a synopsis instead of the story itself." The deeper meaning Lewis points to in a myth, is something I often find in an Oz book. Though this is not always the case. The meaning is not there in the sense that it is inherently viable when considered under strict literary criticism, but there is more there than the seemingly simplistic plot might indicate. Lewis describes myths as 1)not relying on suspense or surprise 2)keeping human sympathy to a minimum (in the sense that the projection of the reader onto the main characters is not a big factor) and 3) that the experience is both grave and awe-inspiring. All of these elements to his definition of myth work in some instances with FF, but I feel that more often than not they do not apply to Oz stories fully. Dorothy is someone I identified with when I was a girl, and I think that is a big factor in the success of the series. Debatable though that thought may be, a heroine like Dorothy is someone young people can identify with. I won't point out instances in which suspense is used, or times when the experience is not grave, because that would just be my perception and it is different for everyone. Liz ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:25:55 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-97 I have got my own computer back and my Netscape e-mail. Things will be easier for a while. I am currently going through five digests that somehow got lost in the move. One more word on usury: It was forbidden to Christians in the middle ages because it was believed to be "against nature" (Like homosexuality [It is interesting, in Dante's PURGATARIO Pasiphae's sexual relations with a bull was considered natural, because the bull was male, while homosexual relations were "unnatural]). The idea was that money was a non-living thing and so it was not "meant" to be fruitful and multiply. > Bob C.: > I can't imagine that there would be any objection on anyone's part to > having an Oz convention in New England, as long as it didn't conflict > with one of the established conventions, and as long as the organizers > were willing to do the work. (The IWOC might or might not be willing to > include it in a mailing, but you could always get the Directory and cull > out those in the vicinity from that.) Perhaps more appropriate, though, > would be something like the Oogaboo parties they have in the Northwest, > rather than a full-blown convention - at least until a sufficient > enthusiastic core has been built up to think about actually having a > formal site, with program, auction, etc. IWOC would probably include a mailing about a Northeast Convention if it was intended as an IWOC event and the brochure arrived in plenty of time. I would recommend a one day convention to start with. That way attendees would not need to stay overnight. DrDave asked about Liberal KS. I attended the Oztoberfest in 1989, so my comments are not up-to-date. That year they had elevent of the original Munchkins and John Fricke (and Steven Cox). I know they continue to have Munchkins. There is Dorothy's House and Land of Oz right next to the Coronado County Museum, which are worth seeing all year round. I believe there is suffiecient motel space in the city, which is in the Southwest corner of Kansas. SPOILER FOR LAUMER__ March Laukmer had Button-Bright fall into a treacle well and be trapped there for years, during which time he aged (and darkened). Afterwards he was old enough to be a serious suitor for Glinda. He also changed his name, and became a character in THE FROGMAN OF OZ. END OF SPOILER Dave Harderbrook: The Bugles you have received are your own property and you are free to sell them at your pleasure. IWOC will not interfere. Steve (Stephen J) T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:52:13 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-97 Bear, that's "n'est pas?" Dave, I might want some of your old Bugles`... Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by delphi.com From: "Estelle E. Klein" Subject: oz comic A description of a cartoon is very difficult, but for those who didn't understand- here in Colorado a "can bank" is a recycling bin for tin cans, etc. You can place all the cans, etc. in it and money comes out (priced per pound). Hence, with "money woes in oz" the motley crew were all standing in front of a "can bank", with only the tinman's head sticking out of the machine. Guess you had to be there!! Here, I'll try again-- Far Side comic- picture a dog peering deep into a box that was set upon a living room table... in the next room a "scarecrow" on the phone..."Yeah, I just got back! And the wizard I mentioned? He gave me a new brain!.. It's on the coffee table as we speak!" And then there was... Lion, Tinman, Scarecrow sitting in front of a computer--- Lion: "If I only had courage" Tinman: If only I had a heard" Scarecrow: If I only had expanded memory capacity..... And finally... Tinman in front of TV doing exercises to the show, "Buns of Tin"... They're really great if you can see them.... As for the Seinfeld episode, it was Jerry Marin and his wife. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:59:08 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-25-97 Oz newsgroup: There was a time when I never would have thought I'd say this, but add my name to the list of those opposed to starting an Oz newsgroup. I subscribe to a number of newsgroups, but none have the sense of community that we have here on the Digest. Much of the Internet has unfortunately become a chaotic mess of get-rich-quick, pornographic come-ons and other worthless spam. In this environment, the Ozzy Digest is a welcome refuge. Emerald City: Haven't reread it all the way through, but was struck by how funny the first chapter was. Roquat's antics are absolutely hilarious. I read the entire chapter out loud to my wife, and even she (who usually just humors my Oz habit) thought it was amusing. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:07:46 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Nome/Gnome thread: The McGraws and Cosgrove Payes don't bring Ruggedo in as a character, but do mention him briefly. "Merry-go-round" (McGraws) spells it Gnome King, and "Forbidden Fountain" (McGraws) and "Wicked Witch" (Cosgrove Payes) spell it Nome King. David Hulan: Your mention of Sir Wylie Gyle reminds me -- I did go to Sally Roesch Wagner's talk on Dakota pioneer women and enjoyed it very much. Baum came briefly into it when she talked about her maternal grandparents, Wylies. Aberdeen's Wylie Park is named for the family. (The Baum Festival, in fact, was held in Wylie Park.) Her grandmother played opposite Baum in some of the Aberdeen theatricals. So it occurred to me to wonder if Sir Wylie, besides the wyle/guile wordplay, was a little joke for his Aberdeen friends. (In case Jeremy Steadman forgets to say it, I'll remark that "Sir Gyle" is indeed impossible, and evidently an error for the plural construction, Are.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 09:16:51 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BAUM BUGLES: Thanks for the advice, everyone. Here are the Bugles I have for sale: Vol, # Featured Articles 39, 3 Lost "Adventures in Oz", Money in Oz 39, 1 Oz in Japan 38, 3 "Queer Visitors" Revisited 40, 3 Oz on Ice, "Dorothy's Adventures Underground" (DOTWIZ) Please make an offer. Peter H. wrote: >Many members sell their old Bugles. The Club doesn't really care. However >I'd be interested in knowing why you want to sell them (unless they're >duplicates). I'm just parting with Bugles I'm less interested in saving, in order to make more room in my increasingly crowded house. LAUMER: Craig wrote: >You had a spoiler in your latest posting for a March Laumer book. I still >haven't read any and am intrigued. Are they available? Are they expensive >or hard to come by? (I know this is probably on Dave's FAQ or Eric's web >page, but I don't have ready access to either.) You know, anyone who wants a copy of my FAQ and can't get it from my web page can E-Mail me and I will gladly send them a copy (either HTML or plain text). But here is the bit from the FAQ concerning Laumer: 2.10 Who are March Laumer and Alexandr Volkov? March Laumer is an Oz author, but his books are much more adult-oriented than the Oz books of other authors. Opinions differ on exactly how "adult" Laumer's Oz books are. Some people claim that his books are pornographic, violent, and otherwise inconsistent with the main Oz series; but others deny this and assert that Laumer only deals with "adult" issues in his stories. His books occur in the same Oz universe as the "Famous Forty" (Ozma is queen, etc.), but they depart enough in mood and content from the main series that many Oz fans don't consider him to be part of the "real" Oz. Laumer's books are only available through him. Write to him at this address: Mr. March Laumer 1029-B 10th St., NW Largo, FL 34640 Or if he can't be reached, try his Sweden address(!): Mr. March Laumer Plaatslagarevaegen 4E1 22730 Lund SWEDEN He has the following titles available: The Green Dolphin of Oz Aunt Em and Uncle Henry in Oz A Fairy Queen in Oz The Umbrellas of Oz A Farewell to Oz The books are all $15, except "Green Dolphin", which is $25. "MR. HARDENBROOK'S OZMA THEORY": Craig wrote: >In some way it seemed to validate and even make possible my own desire to >someday live in Oz and maybe marry Dorothy or Ozma. (I have been silent >on this matter until now, but I finally confess to having had a sacriligious >(sp?) romantic interest in one of these two lovely girls. It isn't "sacriligious"! Honest! I think that there's no reason for us to be apologetic about our beliefs and feelings about Ozma, any more than Darwin was apologetic about his *so-called* "Monkey Theory". And I daresay that the question of Ozma's elegibility to love or to be loved is not nearly as pressing as the nature of the universe or the origin of species, although certain people have reacted as though it where. I know I'm going to get flamed big-time for these comments (I usually do), but this is a subject I sometimes can't keep quiet about, especially when someone bravely comes forward to express similar feelings to mine. OZ NEWSGROUP: Well, I agree with others who have commented on how much more personal and "cozy" the Digest is as apposed to a newsgroup, and I do worry about all the spam. Also there's the question of once a newsgroup is formed of getting all the ISP's to carry it. That said, I do see the advantage of all the messages being organized into threads. Actually, I have in the past contemplated enhancing my "Make_Digest" program so that it would do that with our messages, but it would almost necessitate everyone sending a seperate post for every subject, which many members of the Digest have come out against doing. Bear wrote: >What is a "massive cross-poster" so I will recognize one when I >read one? This is someone who posts the same message (usually an ad of some sort) to umpteen zillion newsgroups at once (in the Nesgroups: field you can see the names of umpteen zillion newsgroups -- A legit. post would only have one name in the Newsgroup field -- alt.fan.wizofoz or whatever). Crossposts are usually "spams" of some sort that have nothing to do with the subject of the group. For instance, imagine in our hypothetical Oz newsgroup a post about Ozma or the Patchwork Girl sandwiched between "Make millions of bucks at Home!!!" and "Live striptease show with slutty teenage nude cheerleaders!" ANOTHER SHANOWER COMMENT: I also agree that _Forgotten Forest_ is the least of the Shanower graphic novels, if only for the out-of-character behavior of Zurline (although we provide an explanation for it in _That Ozzy Feeling_)...I'm also not big on _Ice King_ any more than Snow's _Murder_...I just consider victimization of Ozma too upseting to be Ozzy. COMMENTS ON _EMERALD_: Bear wrote: >I continue to be bothered by Baum's need for "slicing Crinkel" in the >torture chamber and sticking pins in and pulling out hairs of Gupf. Is this >necessary? More "archaic humor". Of course such sadistic "humor" is still considered funny by some...Look at movies like _A Fish Called Wanda_... >p.46 Here we have Glinda "north of the EC." More evidence that Baum was the one with the lousy sense of direction, not the Wogglebug. >p.88 It is refreshing to be reminded that there was once something called >the "Protestant Work Ethic." This will probably come as a real shock to >some of our younger members. Yes, there was a time when people really >wanted to work and didn't feel the government owed them a living without >any effort of their own. I knew about the Work Ethic...I just wasn't aware that the Protestants had a monopoly on it... :) Maybe I'm a starry-eyed idealist, but I've talked to many people, and as far as I can tell, the vast majority of Americans *still* would rather work and be productive any day! Except Sally in _Peanuts_, of course... "I believe in the Allowance Ethic." -- Sally Brown >p. 242 I never realized the source of current Liberal thought, but reading >about the Flutterbudgets really makes it plain. Think how many things our >governments are trying to protect us from that are only possibilities. >Asbestos, all kinds of injuries, floods, global warming... Of course the environmentalists -- due to the endless cries of "we need more proof before we take any action" -- have long been stuck in the position of Steve Maryk in _The Caine Mutiny_ in the middle of that raging typhoon: "I guess the only way I can *prove* I'm right is to let the ship go down!" >p. 290 This makes it clear that Oz is in our world as otherwise airships >could not overfly it. Unless they are airships on the parallel Earth. >p. 292 Refering to Glinda's book: "As soon as an event takes place, >ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, it is immediately found printed in my Magic Book." Yes, but *which* world? >P. 295-6 Well here our author tries to end the series. Complete with some verbal finger-waving: "Now children, we have had six Oz books, and that's *quite* enough for anyone!" ( Wanna bet? :) ) This is I think a rare example of Baum "talking down" to his readers 'a la later FF authors. Doug wrote: >Dorothy and friends travel to misc. place after misc. place and it gets >a bit boring. I have to agree...Usually, when I read _Emerald_, I only read the "Plot to conquer Oz" chapters and the end and just skip the rest... Yikes! I actaully got political in this Digest! Well, as Cary Grant said of his reckless political outspokeness in _Talk of the Town_, "I can't help it when I get an impluse! Double yikes! This is my longest post in a long time, and it took me *an hour and a half*!!! School starts again in a couple of weeks; I've *got* to cut out this sort of thing! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 28 - 29, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:46:27 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: B&W R&L A recently retired colleague of mine has about 25 to 30 Reilly & Lee Oz books by Baum, Thompson and Neill from the late 30s and 40s. They are all b&w in good to fair condition (some are missing free endpapers, some have crayoning). Some of the late Thompsons and the Niells are first editions.(No dust jackets--these are her collection from when she was a girl) She would like about $30 apiece for the better ones, would take less for the worser ones. If you are interested her e-mail address is . Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 22:15:57 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Newsgroup Let's stop discussing why we need a Oz newsgroup or not (nost people , I hope, will vote for it even if they won't discuss it , hopefully). We need a name (I think that rec.arts.oz would be a good one). Remember that each part of the name can't be more than 14 characters and that it should begin with rec (I think). We also need what we'll accept in it (in terms of allowing people to advertise that they're selling their Oz stuff or not and other topics). If anybody wants to help me create a RFD, I will gladly let you. To everybody who thinks spam will be a problem: If the newsgroup passes, we'll wait and see what happens. If the number of spam messages outnumbers the number of on-topic messages, we can submit it for moderation. On the other hand, I haven't seen any spam in most newsgroups (well some, but not a lot). For instance, in rec.arts.books.children I have seen no spam yet (in the past few days). In a low volume newsgroup (as this one will probably be), there shouldn't be much spam. Dave: I never intended it to be an alt.* newsgroup. There is no point to that. Half the ISP's won't carry for who knows how long. If I wanted to start a alt.* newsgroup, I would have already propsed it. However, I wanted to created a newsgroup is the rec.* hierarchy (or some other major hierarchy). If the newsgroup is approved (by way of the vote, see my first post), almost all ISP's will carry it in a few weeks (at most). Most will start carrying it in a few days. However, the process of getting it approved may take up to three months (the discussion and vote). -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 03:15:18 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 Re: Dave selling old Bugles. Are you sure you want to do this? You may be sorry someday... Re: Tyler's "This poses a quandary, since the books are 10 years apart in publication, and it seems that in this long stretch, Dorothy would have visibly aged...." Thanks for the explanation. Is this the same reason Bart Simpson has remained the same age for the past 10 years? And shouldn't Charlie Brown be at least about 45? Right Dave? Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 20:58:51 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Ozzy Digest stuff (sort of) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Suspence and EC-- An interesting Hitchcockian element in EC: Hitchcock describes the difference between suspence and surprise by liking it to a bomb going off-- if it just goes off in the middle of a dinner conversation, then it's too much of a surprise and leaves audiences confused. Suspence, on the other had, lets the audience see the bomb under teh dinner table during the conversatino, and suddenly the audience is hanging on every word. The same with EC-- the travels through Oz become more and more interesting only because we readers see the mounting threat. Lewis Carroll Mailing List-- There is a new mailing list being started regarding Lewis Carroll. I know some of you are big fans, and thought you might be interested. email Amy at watersnake@hotmail.com there's only 12 members so far, and we were wondering if anyone else would like to come on board. Sorry for the spam! Danny ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:36:14 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Carrolling In the 8/27 Digest, Bear notes, The "golden afternoon" of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson's original (oral) telling of _Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_ was July 4, 1862. The book was published (with printing problems) November, 1865. and Bear asks, No. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:50:58, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest Craig writes: >but I finally confess to having had a sacrilegious (sp? ) romantic interest in one of these two lovely girls.< What a silly notion to be interested in Ozma or Dorothy............... I prefer Polychrome! :-) Bear writes: >More evidence that Oz is in our world. < Why would they teach Latin and Greek at the Royal Academy if Oz was not in our world? Tyler writes:>I think my theory works out pretty well. Dorothy is still a little girl,< I agree, this is a good theory. Dorothy can still be considered young, yet mature, too. Craig writes again:>I read the entire chapter out loud to my wife, and even she (who usually just humors my Oz habit )< So, you have one of those, too! :-) New England Oz party: Well, I am going for it. I received a lot of advice (thanks, everyone!), and heard from Jim V. . I will send out feelers once I get the IWOC directory. I don't know how long this will take, but if the interest is there, we will have something here in New England. Any digesters from N.E. care to comment? Any ideas for the party itself? Thanks, Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:54:12 -0500 (EST) From: better living through chemistry Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 Hello, I am interested in participating in an Oz newsgroup, also. Although I like the nature of this subscription list, and would not like random spammers spoiling a newsgroup, I still like the *method* of reading news messages more than these long e-mail messages. It would make following particular threads MUCH easier. My 2 cents, Scott P.S. - Thanks AGAIN, Dave for your tireless work to keep the Ozzy Digest going. (how about a nomination for the L. Frank Baum award?) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:42:58 -0400 From: Lisa Bompiani Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello, Well, the schedule has started: 6:00 am walk, studying by 7:00 . . . aaah, yes, it's back to school time! As for knowing the how a story is going to end, I am not sure whether or not that spoils it; it is sort of comforting to know that things will work out in the end. Plus, the Greeks always knew the stories of the gods, but still went to see the stories and myths performed at the ampitheater. Just a thought: I was thinking about the Shaggy Man discussion and whether or not it was acceptable for Dorothy to go off with him . . . does anyone think there would have been less concern if Shaggy had not been so Shaggy? Another thought: I just read Baum's "The Loveridge Burglary." It struck me how fickle and "weak' Mrs. Loveridge behaved, ie: she screamed while Mr. remained calm. This portrayal of her is almost completely opposite from Dorothy who is a strong, outspoken, take-charge kind of girl. I was a bit shocked by this . . . In reference to Shanower: I agree with everyone about the books, but I think in my research with the illustrations, I have to keep in mind that Shanower is working in a completely different medium: comic art v. book art. Although some comparisons can be made, they are coming from a different direction. Bear: For the record, what kind of girl do you think I am? I didn't say I was "playing around with sort-of-boyfriends," I said "playing around on the sort-of-boyfriend's dairy farm." :-) I'm getting pretty good at scraping you-know-what out of barn stalls! Melody: It is kind of scary to think about what would hae happened if Baum's, or Oz's, fans hadn't been so demanding. Gosh, what would I talk about? Craig: Have you been missing anything? You could say, Apple Blossom shuts down the town for about four days. They block off the streets in downtown (which made parking four blocks from my house kind of difficult), bring in a carnival complete with rides, a midway through the center of town, big dinners, parades, festivals, a 10k, etc. The MC's for past parades have been the real Batman and Mary Tyler Moore. They even close the schools and lift the open container law from Thursday evening thru Sunday afternoon. Sadly, it's what most of the town lives for through the rest of the year. BTW, people humor my Oz habit, too. :-) As for Emerald City, I'm slowly rereading along with some others. So far, I find myself laughing aloud when reading about the Nome King's antics. And, I had forgotten how Aunt Em and Uncle Henry seem to so calmly accept Oz's existence. Back to studying, Peace & Love, Bompi ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:07:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 Speaking of Happy Endings: (or rather of endings in general)--The books of my Oz trilogy (_The Emerald Ring of Oz_ being the first) contains three separate related plots, but the first two have endings that are either incomplete or not very happy. (At first I was going to end the second with the destruction of the world, but my family told me in no uncertain terms that that was entirely unOzzy and somewhat--as in VERY--inappropriate for an Oz book. I changed the ending a bit and hope that it'll not be received too poorly when it leaves the press.) Craig: I, too, was always amused by that picture. No Internet access? I feel for you there--my first ffew months at home last summer left me with e-mail (through AOL) but without a working web browser (again AOL's doing). It got fixed eventually, but I empathize all the same. _Emerald City_: Always my favorite Oz book, I think, mainly because of the wrapping up of loose ends (that is, Dorothy & co getting to Oz permanently at last). Oz radio: A radio between dimensions? It'd probably have to be at a very high or very low frequency, so as not to alert the "Outside World" to Oz's existence. Certainly not impossible, but perhaps challenging. Or perhaps the radio was turned off permenently after Baum's death . . . Glinda's residence: I have just thought of a unique, clever, though improbable and totally unsubstantiated idea: Perhaps Glinda's summer residence is in the north of the EC. (There--just had to say that. I certainly don't believe it, though it does lead to interesting ideas . . . once Tattypoo was restored, of course, that would have had to have ended.) Bear: If the government didn't protect us against possibilities, it'd have no ability to protect us against probabilities. As to Oz being proven to be in our world, it could still be in another dimension--a dimension like Brigadoon in that it is present in our world every once in awhile . . . Mr. Robert Collinge: Well, I feel like a New Englander at heart, if that counts . . . (I lived there for two years, in New Jersey, after which my family departed for insanity and horror--I'll refrain from mentioning the name of the state to spare feelings, if anyone happens to live there, but will just say it's in the south.) Steve Teller: If you should have the time, please e-mail me privately and tell me your impressions of Netscape's e-mail. I have Communicator on my own computer, but am using Pegasus Mail at the moment because I am in the college Computer Lab, not having Internet access in my own room yet. They say that'll happen soon. Sir Gyle: The bit of land where the electrical storm hit. With that en-lightning thought, I bid adieu. For now. --Jeremy Steadman, a free man again! ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 07:36:03 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 A veritable cornucopia of comments: Oz newsgroup: Count me out also. I agree that a newsgroup wouldn't have the intimacy of our "Digest". I also have the feeling that the comity that exists (most of the time) here would probably be lost. I suppose that those who want to participate in a newsgroup could, however. I can't see that one's existence would detract from our group. Bear, Flutterbudgetism is in the eye of the beholder. I suppose that polio would be one of the "only perceived" perils that the government is protecting us against until you actually contract it. We all can't be ruggedly individualistic militia members. Now, on to _Emerald City_: There are many references to King Roquat's army. Their proficiency in warmaking is extolled. Do we know of any other wars, raids, forays, etc. that they have participated in? On page 54, when Aunt Em and Uncle Henry have first been transported to Oz, Aunt Em is described as having her calico dress skirt "tucked up". What is this exactly? I have a picture in mind of her skirts tucked into the top of her panties (would that be the word used to describe Aunt Em's underthings?). I'm sure that concept couldn't be right, but don't know what it means. Tunnels. These Nomes are proficient at tunneling. They construct an enormous tunnel all the way to the center of OZ. What happens to all the material that they excavate? It has to go somewhere. Billina's chicks. All named "Dorothy" and "Daniel". Reminds me of George Foreman. He named all his sons and his dog "George" so they could all be called to dinner at the same time. The idea of shoeing the sawhorse with gold. Gold is not particularly hard or long-wearing. Wouldn't something else have been more appropriate? While in Bunbury Dorothy defends Toto and Billina for eating the inhabitants. > Toto and Billina can't be 'spected to go hungry when the town's full of good things > they like to eat, 'cause they can't understand your stingy ways "Stingy ways", indeed. The inhabitants had been more that accommodating. Another example of Dorothy' propensity for invading perfectly innocuous places and wreaking havoc. Kind of a Baumian "manifest destiny". The Tin Woodman having himself nickle plated. Is nickle particularly lustrous? When I look at the five cent pieces in my pocket they look dull. Now to a statement that really bothers me. On page 80: > It seems unfortunate that strong people are usually so disagreeable and overbearing > that no one cares for them. In fact, to be different from your fellow creatures is > always a misfortune. Firstly, the statement about "strong people" is not born out by my experience. Strong people mostly seem to me to be easier to get along with because they feel secure. Perhaps Baum was the model for Charles Atlas' "before" example. Maybe he got sand kicked in his face at some beach. The second part about the misfortune of being different is offensive to me. Maybe at the time this was written children were forced to conform and Bear's "rugged individualism" was not a virtue. I doubt it. We should value people's differences. Indeed, on page 137-138 Baum has the Lord High Chigglewitz saying "Madam, you have perhaps noticed that every person has some peculiarity. Mine is to scatter myself. What your own peculiarity is I will not venture to say; but I shall never find fault with you whatever you do". Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:54:01 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Douglas Silfen: Some possible explanations for why Ozma didn't close up the Nome King's tunnel before the invasion instead of after -- the Phanfasms magical abilities might have been such that they could just have opened it up again with a counter-spell; it could have taken her a while to figure out how to close it; or (combination of first two) perhaps the tunnel was magically protected (perhaps the Nomes' own magic abilities would extend that far, even after the loss of the Magic Belt?) against magical interference? There are a lot of different versions of gnomes. Tolkien called one group of his elves "gnomes"; Pope's gnomes in "The Rape of the Lock" are earth-spirits inculcating prudishness; Henry Kuttner's gnomes in "A Gnome There Was" (available in collections of Kutnner's short stories and much anthologized) are mine-inhabitants somewhat similar to Baum's Nomes, C. S. Lewis's gnomes of Bism are from the deeps of molten lava below the layers of solid rock, and so on and so on. Baum's Nomes are like other people's gnomes in not being very much like any one other person's verions of gnomes. But they're still all gnomes, and it takes more than making the pronunciation more obvious by dropping off the silent g to make a different supernatural species. (Phanfasms and Growleywogs, yes. Nomes, no.) And Baum's definition of Nomes as ones who know makes it obvious that he was thinking of them as Gnomes, as the dictionaries of his time usually derived "gnome" from the Greek "gnome" (adage, wisdom, knowledge). Craig Noble: I haven't so far received the copy I ordered of Michael Riley's book, either. Perhaps there's been a delay in the printing or binding? Books do often come out a bit later than expected. Scott Olsen: Enjoyed your clear explication of the differences between the advantages and disadvantages of a newsgroup. Tyler Jones: I think maybe sending a large group for the rescue party in "Glinda" is reasonably motivated by the situation (the country's ruler is in danger), and Baum probably wasn't expecting to use them all as significant parts of the action. By contrast, I think all of the rescue crowd in "Lost Princess" do get their moments-of-signifcance (unless I'm just not remembering characters who go along but don't get anything particular to do). Scott Hutchin: I vaguely remember "Rainbow." It starred Andrea McArdle (shortly after her run as the lead in the original production of "Annie") as Judy Garland, I think? But I don't seem to remember much about it otherwise (not memorable, evidently). On swearwords: well, as RPT's Speedy would say, "Curses macorangejuice!" Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 16:16:02 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 Re: Dave's "For instance, imagine in our hypothetical Oz newsgroup a post about Ozma or the Patchwork Girl sandwiched between..."Live striptease show with slutty teenage nude cheerleaders!" Gee, maybe the idea of a newsgroup isn't so bad after all....;) Sincerely, Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:01:06 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@Nash.iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 > The one plot thread that ties everything in _Nikidik in Oz_ together does > not have a happy ending, but that's like expecting Irvin Kerchner to have > a happy ending on _The Empire Strikes Back_. It would not have worked > otherwise. In general, though, I agree that Oz books should have happy > endings, though they can be more serious ones, such as in _The Blue Witch > of Oz_. The ending of _Tip of Oz_ is a cross between those two types, > then jumps to another area for one last glimpse at another character and a > reflexive epilogue paving the way to _Nikidik in Oz_, actually events from > about halfway through, though this may be the first Oz book not told in > chronological order. There are actually two, Tip/Ozma birthday parties in this book, one for 1992, and one for 1994, but they don't appear at the end because each has a major character vignette. > confess to having had a sacriligious (sp?) romantic interest in one of these > two lovely girls. The "ril" is correct, at least > > Melody: > "There's no place like home," is a movie line (quoted from a song, and > probably that was quoting a familiar cliche), and I don't recall > anything in any of the books that indicates that Dorothy had any > particular attachment to Kansas. She kept going back because she wanted > to be with Uncle Henry and Aunt Em, not because she wanted to be in > Kansas. "Home is knowing, knowing your mind, knowing your heart, knowing your courage." --Joel Schumacher, _The Wiz_ > > Guph is indeed a fine villain. Piglet Press's tape of it (which, by the > way, I highly recommend; it's _very_ well-done, even if I'd quibble at a > few things) gives him a sort of Peter Lorre way of speaking, which seems > to fit very well. That's how the Cinar Potterton/Reid film did it. > > Scott H.: > Using cuss words in an Oz book is fine as long as you don't care if it > gets published, or are willing and able to self-publish. I can almost > guarantee you that neither BEOO nor BoW will publish such a book, > though. Oh, well, this kind of book wouldn't be very well-suited to either of those, since it is a character story more than an adventure story. > > You have a female character named Aubrey? Interesting. That's usually a > male name, but then a lot of originally-male names have been given to > females in recent years. Leslie, for instance, is almost always female > now. For that matter, I have a female cousin called Scotty, though it's > true that "Scott" is her middle name and was her mother's maiden name. I know one Aubrey in real life, and she is female. She also knows she is the inspiration for the character in the book, which is fine with her, though she hasn't read it, so long as there is nothing bad, no nude scene or anything. She does take a shower at one point, but the narrative is blatantly away from her, and with the others. Actaully, I know of one other Aubrey who is male, but I don't know him. He is a younger brother of some girls I was in youth group with. The younger looks just like Fairuza Balk, and came to youth group once with the Oz runaway note T-shirt. > You ought to. GlLinda creates a a snowstorm to bring > the adult Dorothy to Oz with Toto. It's also much closer to the book than the MGM film is, in a rest Shakespearean sense of faithfulness, like Richard Loncraine's WWII _Richard III_ or Baz Luhrmann's modern _Romeo & Juliet_, or Dani Bedau's play of _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ at IRT set in modern-day Indianaapolis. Sabian, my theater prof, worked on that. > To what end? My grandfather had this sage view. "Profanity is a weak mind > trying to express itself strongly." I never forgot it. That doesn't mean > I dont do it. :) One character ghets really annoyed. I nev er use cussing in narration, especially for third-person narration, like in an Oz book. > > Oh Lord, "The Nome Kingdom Chainsaw Massacre." Beam me up. Aubrey's line of dialogue defending this is so gfunny I won't put it so no one can steal it. Aubrey likes _The Texas Chainsaw Massacre_. The real one said everyone saw it in the theatre in the town of Washington, Indiana, where she use to live, and claims she used to sound like a hick. She told me not to say she still does. She doesn't, especially since she spoke how she used to spoke. Yesterday in my fiction writing class we talked about the ethics of basing characters on people you know. It was deemed a sort of necessary evil. I didn't make too many changes. If anything, I idealized her, even though she is sort of the main antagonist (though definitely NOT the villain; the villains are minor characters who only make small appearances and create a sense of urgency at certain places. I think she would approve. Is she my friend? I don't know. Is Aubrey Tip's friend? I don't know. > > > I continue to be bothered by Baum's need for "slicing Crinkel" in the > torture chamber and sticking pins in and pulling out hairs of Gupf. Is this > necessary? "Remember Colonel Crinkel?" -- Aubrey, faux-threatening a nome with a chainsaw, _Nikidik in Oz_ > p.46 Here we have Glinda "north of the EC." unreliable speaker, remember > > p. 71 Dave - All the male chickens are named Dan! By the way, at this time > there were 1+11+86+300 chickens in the EC. Since they can't die there are > now 666 squadrillion and two. Of course, that is if Billina is continuously mating. It has been suggested that the rooster whom she fought with in _Ozma_ was raping her, figuring that a sentient hen could be raped, and since Billina has a strong loathing of roosters this is supported. It may not be an Ozzy topic, but it is something to think about, or perhaps this is just collegiate interprtetation. > > p.81 In the non-PC line we have the pictures of Growleywogs. They > certainly look like skinny Indians to me. Not "Growley" of the animations, heh? :-). I knew that. > > > p.149 It is not allowed to kill and eat chickens but it is allowed to eat > eggs, thus effectively killing potential chickens. Now where have I heard > this thinking applied? If they are candled and seen unfertilized, they arte not potential chickens. Of course, their are weirdos who eat fertile chicken eggs. > > p.201 Charles Dodgson wrote "Alice In Wonderland" in the 1860s if IRC. > Does Bunnybury strike anyone as similar to Wonderland? > Yes. > > p. 242 I never realized the source of current Liberal thought, but reading > about the Flutterbudgets really makes it plain. Think how many things our > governments are trying to protect us from that are only possibilities. > Asbestos, all kinds of injuries, floods, global warming, the list is > endless. I remember when New York created a Rat Abatement Department. > Observers felt this would guarantee that NY had rats forever, else there > would be no reason for the department. Amen! > > p. 290 This makes it clear that Oz is in our world as otherwise airships > could not overfly it. > Told you. > > There is no evidence that Dorothy aged at all between her first visit and > the time she came to Oz to live permanently. This poses a quandary, since > the books are 10 eyars apart in publication, and it seems that in this long > stretch, Dorothy would have visibly aged. Her cumulative visits to Oz may > have slowed her aging, but not by that much, since she was not in Oz for > most of that time. We don't know that the books did not take place relatively close together. As far as I am concerned, the events in my Oz books are several years old (because the dates are definitive in my works, establishing them as histories. Now I am backlogged. The third books events finished up earlier this year while the second is still unwritten. Perhaps Baum had a backlog from his relectance to write the new stories down. > > David: > The only case I've ever come across is _Dinamonster_ where it is strongly > implied that Oz is on another planet in our Universe, with such statements > as "Getting back to Earth" and some other things. I don't rate this book as > HACC-worthy, though, so it;s statements are ignored. Alkso, there is "The U.S.S. Enterprise Visits Oz" in ECM#17, but sss are not HACC-worthy, and that would be off the timeline, a potential Oz futures timeline. BTW, Peter Glassman, The first issue of ECM I received was #17, but my father told me he had ordered me a charter membership when RCO began, and that the check had cleared, but I never got anything until I ordered it myself with my own checkbook. Is this a mistake on your part or one of my father's many lies? > Scott: > Perhaps, as Dryads in _The Belgariad_, the faries breed true on the female > side and simply use human males for the purpose of letting fairies be born > as baby girls. Well, there is a fairy prince in "Thumbelina," but that's andersen, not Baum. > An average Oz book for me. Maybe a bit under average. Thank Ozma > that the great books 7,8,9,11,13, and 14 follow!!! I think 12 is great, but that's just me, the postmodernist... > > In the 8/25 Digest, David Hulan mentions he does not see evidence of > morally good magic workers having paid a price for their craft. Perhaps > the moral nature of what one does with the magic is the determining > factor. It is only the magical bad deeds that exact a noticeable price. > Therefor, as Glinda says in a certain movie, "Only bad witches are ugly." It's like that episode of _She-Ra_ where that guy becomes the apprentice to Shadow Weaver, and she removes her hood to show the sesult. All the audience sees is a reaction shot however. I used to think it was because the Filmation people were to unimaginative, but now I know it's because they want to encourage the people watching to be imaginative. They did JBTO, after all, certainly the most beautiful animated Oz film. Cinar's is ugly, RB's is abstract, DiC is rather lifelike/surreal, and Willard and Tom's is cute. > Scott: John 14:12 talks about the works of Jesus, and those of His > believers. What has this got to do with witches? That those who believe in him can do greater works than he did while on earth, isn't that obvious? > > > ahead. They are always on the auction table, and I am sure there are > people who would want them, since I know more than a few people who are > trying to make a complete set. Nate is actually, you could ask him if > he needs any of the ones you have... I'm at least rtrying to get those I don't have which have not been reprinted. It sure is expensive, though. > > > It was forbidden to Christians in the middle ages because it was > believed to be "against nature" (Like homosexuality [It is interesting, > in Dante's PURGATARIO Pasiphae's sexual relations with a bull was > considered natural, because the bull was male, while homosexual > relations were "unnatural]). I know the Minotaur's name, do you? > > > SPOILER FOR LAUMER__ > > March Laumer had Button-Bright fall into a treacle well and be trapped We can tell Laumer was influenced by Dr. Dodgson :-) > > Subject: oz comic > I once saw an issue of _Mad_ that had a comic book enclosed. the first story was "Poopeye," a parody of Popeye. The other was a parody of _The Wizard of Oz_, with a hippopotamus (I believe female) replacing the Lion, but I don't know much about it. Has anyone else seen this? It's not that "gredy Old Guru of Ours" that was shown in the Winter 1987 Bugle > ====================================================================== > Steadman forgets to say it, I'll remark that "Sir Gyle" is indeed impossible, > and evidently an error for the plural construction, Are.) huh? > ANOTHER SHANOWER COMMENT: > I also agree that _Forgotten Forest_ is the least of the Shanower graphic > novels, if only for the out-of-character behavior of Zurline (although we > provide an explanation for it in _That Ozzy Feeling_)...I'm also not big > on _Ice King_ any more than Snow's _Murder_...I just consider victimization > of Ozma too upseting to be Ozzy. Do you think everyone in Oz does Ozzy things? Interesting conflicts in stories can be derived from the fact that certainly not eveyone does. Especially if you don't want to right the umpteenth Oz vs. the Nome Kingdom story, and before you say anything, that's not what I have in Nikidik, but it is where Tip says Sailor's line about "faggots," and "homosexuals" that I posted earlier this year (from _Wild at Heart_, an unOzzy Ozzy movie) . > More "archaic humor". Of course such sadistic "humor" is still considered > funny by some...Look at movies like _A Fish Called Wanda_... Believe it or not, I actually never saw that. Palin made another film where people get dissolved into mediocre chocalte, causing that brand to be the rage. It was called _Consuming Passions_, but I haven't watched it. > More evidence that Baum was the one with the lousy sense of direction, > not the Wogglebug. or Guph? > > Of course the environmentalists -- due to the endless cries of "we need more > proof before we take any action" -- have long been stuck in the position > of Steve Maryk in _The Caine Mutiny_ in the middle of that raging typhoon: > "I guess the only way I can *prove* I'm right is to let the ship go down!" Of course, there is _no_ evidence for things such as global warming. There were lots of esasayus in the seventies about global cooling in the 1970s; one of them was called "The Cooling," unfortuantely, I do not have sources to attribute this, I found books that reference d them in high school. > > Unless they are airships on the parallel Earth. Then how come no one has found this, unless that is represented by Down Town in CloO? > > Complete with some verbal finger-waving: "Now children, we have had > six Oz books, and that's *quite* enough for anyone!" ( Wanna bet? :) ) > This is I think a rare example of Baum "talking down" to his readers > 'a la later FF authors. Roger S. Baum the worst offender! > Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:08:38 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 Craig: As far as I know the Riley book is still due out this month, but I ordered it from Amazon quite a while ago and it hasn't arrived yet. Don't know if the delay is at the publisher or if Amazon is being slow (though the one other book I ordered from them turned up in 3-4 days from the time I ordered it). I thought the Whimsies, Growleywogs, and Phanfasms were among the best villains Baum dreamed up, too. (A Whimsie who didn't accompany the rest of them to Oz is the chief villain of _Magic Carpet_.) I guess I was different; I never really lusted after Dorothy or Ozma, for some reason. When I was younger I preferred Trot or Gureeda; when I got older it was Polychrome, Azarine, or Planetty. :-) David L.: As long as it would be in addition to rather than instead of the Digest I see no objection to an Oz newsgroup. If you need a signature (or equivalent) you can count me in. Whether I actually use it much would be something else; I like the Digest as it is, more because than in spite of the fact that it isn't "threaded". But then I'm used to this kind of discussion elsewhere, in fanzines and on GEnie. Bear: >David - It's good to see you moving away from the left toward the center! >:) I haven't moved. I've always been centrist. My conclusion that the ugly witches would probably have been just as ugly if they'd never touched magic is based on the fact that there doesn't seem to be any connection between magic - good or bad - and appearance in the Baum books. Mrs. Yoop and Coo-ee-oh are definitely practitioners of bad magic, but aren't ugly (Coo-ee-oh isn't very pretty, but she looks young and there's no indication that she ever was pretty). The GWN looks old, but is a practitioner of good magic. The only character we see who learns magic during the course of the books, the Wizard, doesn't seem to change his appearance at all (though admittedly his magic is good). Ugu is a practitioner of bad magic, but doesn't seem to look any different from the rest of the Herkus. (Zosozo does take its toll on appearance, it's true.) It isn't conclusive proof, but I see no evidence at all that magic, even bad magic, affects the appearance of the practitioner. Like any other positive assertion, I think the burden of proof is on the one who asserts that it does have such an effect - do you have any? I'll agree that the EC has never seemed to have the other characteristics of a city of 50,000+, though it's said to more than once in the FF. Especially in the absence of mechanized transportation that's a Big City, yet it doesn't seem to take people more than a few minutes - certainly not hours - to get from the city wall to the center. If nothing else had been said I'd have put its size in the 10-15,000 range. I think that Roquat's having Crinkle sliced up, and Blug "thrown away" (whatever that is), and Guph's beard-hair pulled out, while not strictly _necessary_, are useful in showing the evil character of those who did the acts. It's not as if there are graphic descriptions of the really fatal acts, and little kids aren't likely to be bothered by Guph's being mildly tortured, when he's been established as a nasty sort himself. I know I wasn't when I first read the book at age 7 or so. >p.88 It is refreshing to be reminded that there was once something called >the "Protestant Work Ethic." This will probably come as a real shock to >some of our younger members. Yes, there was a time when people really >wanted to work and didn't feel the government owed them a living without >any effort of their own. Your right-wing views are blinding you to reality, Bear. There have always been people who felt they were owed a living without any effort of their own (read Shaw, or Twain, for more-or-less contemporaries of Baum), and I doubt if there are many more of them now (in proportion to the population) than there were then. It's true that until this year, it was possible for someone to get a small pittance from the government without working, though trying to live on $6-800 a month for a family of three or four, or about $300 a month in the more generous states for a single, isn't something most people would do voluntarily. But a very small fraction of the population ever did that for more than short periods caused by emergencies. Other than the presence of clothed rabbits I don't see much resemblance between Bunnybury and Wonderland. >p. 242 I never realized the source of current Liberal thought, but reading >about the Flutterbudgets really makes it plain. Think how many things our >governments are trying to protect us from that are only possibilities. >Asbestos, all kinds of injuries, floods, global warming, the list is >endless. I remember when New York created a Rat Abatement Department. >Observers felt this would guarantee that NY had rats forever, else there >would be no reason for the department. NY will almost certainly have rats forever regardless; rats have adapted very nicely to living in congested urban environments. But anyhow, what's with blaming all this on Liberals (other than that you blame everything you dislike on Liberals)? I noticed that when we had a big flood here in DuPage County (65% Republican) last year, there wasn't a peep from the local politicians (100% Republican) when FEMA came in with help for the people who were flooded out. Anyhow, it's more a matter of whose ox is being gored than liberal-vs-conservative. I have a friend who makes you look liberal in most regards, but she's a horse-lover and is incensed because the government isn't preventing horses from being sold for meat. And it's conservatives who are all-out to prevent kids from being taught the evil theory of evolution in school. (Not all conservatives support that, of course, but then not all liberals support all the Byzantine government regulations you blame on them, either.) Tyler: Neither Dorothy nor Ozma behave as if they're as young as 8 in any of the books, except possibly Dorothy in _Wizard_. Anybody who thinks they're that young has a mind-set that ignores all the available evidence in the books. ((IRC Chris D claims to have visited Oz personally, so he Knows. I can't argue with that point of view.) Douglas: I've read TIN CASTLE and RED REERA, and have reviewed them both for Tyler's Web site. If you can't access that, I can say that the first is mildly enjoyable but almost totally lacking in conflict - it makes ROAD look tense - and the prose is mediocre. The second is much better written, but is really no more than a short story more suitable for OZIANA than for individual publication. If you order more Buckethead books I strongly recommend BUNGLE AND THE MAGIC LANTERN, FLYING BUS, and CROCHETED CAT as the three best after DISENCHANTED PRINCESS. (FRAMED FAIRY is also very good if you like Perry Mason, but it's more a Perry Mason story set in Oz than an Oz story featuring Perry Mason.) Earl: All bad magic-workers aren't ugly, either. See my comments to Bear. Liz: Just for the record, because Dave Hardenbrook and I share the same last initial, and he prefers to be called "Dave" and I prefer to be called "David," it's customary on the Digest to do it that way to avoid confusion. It's not a big deal, and I answer to "Dave", but it simplifies matters to follow that practice. When I was much younger, but in my teens, I spent a lot of time telling the Oz stories in my own words to my younger cousins. They loved them. So to that extent I think that the Oz stories partake in some degree to what Lewis called "myth," though they're not in the class of Orpheus and Eurydice or Thor and Loki's visit to Utgard. Scott H.: >Bear, that's "n'est pas?" Actually, I believe it's "N'est-ce pas?" (At least, that's the way I've always seen it written; as I've said, I've never taken a course in French.) Ruth: >(In case Jeremy Steadman forgets to say it, I'll remark that "Sir Gyle" >is indeed impossible, and evidently an error for the plural construction, >Are.) *Groan* :-) Dave: Yeah, it takes me an hour to an hour and a half to respond to a Digest, usually. Good job I'm retired... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:58:13 -0400 (EDT) From: earlabbe@juno.com (Earl C. Abbe) Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission I will be off line until the seventh or eighth. Behave yourselves. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:08:26 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls David L. >What do you mean by "Can't you drop your news items into the existing format?" I meant the Digest. Tyler >Gandalf, as you will recall, was not really human. He was an Ainur (angel),.... I don't recall this at all. How was he done in by the Balrog if that is the case? Where did you find this "Ainur" thing? I see it is time to read LOTR again. Unlike Robin (annually) it has been a decade since I read it last. Hey Dave - relax. We all know of your passion. Concealed though it is by the use of your surrogate, "Dan." I'll continue to consider it misguided at worst. I'm not going to worry much until someone expresses some passion for Mombi. :) Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 01:24:32 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Craig: I'll let Dave fill you in on the details of getting March Laumer books, or I can e-mail you his FAQ. As for your crushes on Dorothy and/or Ozma, in the March Laumer Universe, Dorothy is married (you may call her Doctor Choggolak) and Ozma is, well, er, um, uh, (ahem) David L: I believe that Bear simply meant the DIgest itself as "the existing format". WHile I tend to like things to be organized and by-the-numbers, I must confess I enjoy the stream-of-consciousness that is the Digest. All things Ozzy mixed up in a wonderful jumble for us to hunt through. A Newsgroup would be a little less personal and more difficult to wade through, not to mention the spam. OF course, if you are interested, I have a really neat pyramid scheme and I only need you to send in... :-( Dave and I discussed the possibility of organizing the Digest into a few high-level topics, but came to the conclusion that it would be extremely difficult to do so and highly impractical. "There's No Place like Home" Believe it or not, Dorothy actually said this in the book, but not when she clicked her heels. I tend to follow David's statement that Dorothy only wanted to go home because of her Aunt and Uncle. She had no particular attachment to Kansas or the farm. David: The goshawk, I believe, was from _Emerald City_. It tried to steal some of Billina's chickens, but they were protected by magic. Bear: A cross-poster is a person who will take one message and post it to every newsgroup and bulletin board in existence. This tends to annoy those who expect topical items in specific places. I suppose Baum may have meant that there were 57,000 people in the entire Green Area, although the part outside the walls seems very sparsely populated. Bear: our quip reminds me of a TV show wherein the owner of a pest control company admonished his young prodigy for doing too good a job. "What! You wanns kill ALL the cockroaches in Manhattan? Then what're we gonna do?" Doug: You can read reviews of these and other Buckethead Oz books by going to my web page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tnj/homepage.htm Several people have sent me comments about Buckethead Books that they have read. YOu can persuse it to your hearts content. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 20:49:06 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-27-97 TYLER: >Nathan: >In Atty's _A Wonderful Journey in Oz_, we meet Ozette and Ozara, Ozma's >paternal grandmother, the wife of Pastoria. let me just clarify that i did NOT create ozette; she debuted in _mister flint in oz_ by ray powell (one of buckethead's best publications, but long unavailable). incidentally, there are only 27 copies of _a wonderful journey in oz_ left--they're all in my closet, as i'm warehousing for chris dulabone. while _journey_ is not nearly as well-done as my current material, the book is still quite historically significant, since it introduces ozma's grandmother, and at $5, it's not too pricey. in fact, buckethead is currently packaging _journey_ with my second and third books, _time-traveling in oz_ and _sinister gases in oz_, at a discount. it's called the Time Traveling Trilogy (TTT). (plug, plug) ok, i'll never resort to cheap advertising again. promise. >David: >I poked around Thompson a bit, but I did not find the passage. I know it's >in there, though, and she mentions that all you have to do is state on your >birthday that I want to remain the same age. I'll find it someday. the passage that sprang to my mind was from henry blossom's _blue emperor. on page 14: "Whenever your birthday comes around (if you live in OZ) you say, 'I want to remain at this age for another year.' And you stay that age." perhaps he was echoing RPT, though. atticus * * * "The crash of the whole solar and stellar systems could only kill you once." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:40:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Michael Riley's Book No Announced for September 26, 1997 Hi Dave, Michael O'Neal Riley has just written to say that the University Press of Kansas has announced a publication date of September 26 for Michael's forthcoming book on Baum and his fantasies. Peter ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 16:46:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things IMMORTAL CARTOON CHARACTERS: Apparently Lurline's enchantment has "leaked" into the Outside World somewhat so that people like Charlie Brown and Bart Simpson are not aging. This subject has been discussed on the Peanuts newsgroup. There seem to be three "stop-age points": Charlie Brown, Lucy, Peppermint Patty, Marcie, and Schroeder have stopped at eight; Linus, Sally, Eudora, Lydia and Tapioca Pudding have "left off" (as Humpty Dumpty would say) at six or seven; and Lucy and Linus' younger brother Rerun has stopped at five. In fact, Rerun acutally seems to *know* he has stopped aging, for he has recently said in a strip that "Next month I'm starting my second year in kindergarten"(!) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 30 - 31, 1997 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:30:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 Bear: Gandolph wasn't done in by the Balrog. Almost, but not quite. The business about Ainur is, IIRC, not from the text of LOTR. Can't remember if it's from SILMARILLION (sp?) or an appendix, or even from a lost tale, but the wizards are not regular mortals. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:50:18 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Again, the newsgroup does not have to be a replacement to the digest. Rather, it would be an addition. Spam may not be a problem after all, we'll see what happens. The faster we figure out some things, the sooner I will be able to post an RFD, and the sooner there will be a vote. Bob: Nickel, when polished, is in fact very shiny. I have an uncirculated nickel coin that I got at the Denver Mint. I scanned it in (the colors and shine aren't perfect) and put it on the web. You can look at it at http://www.bendov.net/dblhockey/nickel.jpg -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 19:54:04 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 Bompi, > Another thought: I just read Baum's "The Loveridge Burglary." It struck me > how fickle and "weak' Mrs. Loveridge behaved, ie: she screamed while Mr. > remained calm. This portrayal of her is almost completely opposite from > Dorothy who is a strong, outspoken, take-charge kind of girl. I was a bit > shocked by this . . . A bit earlier I read and remarked here on Baum's "The Flying Girl" and "The Flying Girl and Her Chum", both of which I thoroughly disliked. In these stories he has featherheaded females (and fatuous, pompous males) counterpoised against the heroine and her chum, both of whom are level-headed and capable. I felt that these books were shallow and one-dimensional besides being poorly plotted. Maybe it's unfair of me to compare them to his Oz books, but I couldn't help doing so. Danny, I didn't consider the information about the Lewis Carroll mailing list to be spam. If it was, it certainly was a very minor example. While I'm not as conversant as I would like to be with "Alice" and "Looking Glass" it sounds interesting. I believe that I'll sent Amy a line. Thanks. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:37:31 -0400 (EDT) From: CrNoble@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 More on EC: It seems very odd that the students at Professor Wogglebug's college would learn Greek, Latin and "The Charge of the Light Brigade." Since when did anyone in Oz know about ancient European languages and 19th Century English literature? Were these subjects introduced by someone from the Outside World, such as the Wizard or Shaggy Man? I seriously doubt it was Dorothy or Button Bright. -- Craig ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 23:41:46 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls >Bear: For the record, what kind of girl do you think I am? I didn't say I was "playing around with sort-of-boyfriends," I said "playing around on the sort-of-boyfriend's dairy farm." :-) I'm getting pretty good at scraping you-know-what out of barn stalls! My apologies. However, I think you need to find a non-sort-of-boyfriend. A date scraping "you-know-what" has to be near the bottom of the list. :) Jeremy >Bear: If the government didn't protect us against possibilities, it'd have no ability to protect us against probabilities. Sigh - Where did you get this strange idea? This country was founded on the basis that we wanted government to leave us alone and worry about a very retricted set of things. Our early flag was a snake with the motto "Don't tread on me." It is sad how far we have drifted from that idea. If you don't think it is costing you anything ask anyone over forty. Sparky - I didn't follow your comment, FWIW. Have a nice weekend, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:08:23 -0500 From: "David G. Hulan" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 Scott O.: Fictional characters frequently remain the same age, more or less, for a very long time. Hercule Poirot was a long-retired detective of the Belgian police force when he first appeared in, IIRC, 1919, but was still going strong 50 years later and apparently hadn't aged a bit. Same for Miss Marple, though she didn't appear for the first time until 1930 or so - but as a very elderly lady. Pam North is established as having been born in 1912, but is still young, naive, and sexy in 1961. (And would have probably continued if her creator hadn't died at that point.) But these are characters who inhabit our own world, but are clearly fictional. Dorothy and others inhabit a world where non-aging is part of the world, and the world is in many respects well-worked-out. This makes figuring out all the ins and outs of when and how much she aged worth doing, unlike similar cases in other fictional venues. (Alexander "Baby Dumpling" and Cookie Bumstead in the "Blondie" strip aged for a while, but they hit the stop-growing stage about 1950 - and were slowed down for a while before that - and haven't changed since.) "For Better or For Worse" is the only comic strip I can think of where the characters really do seem to age at more or less the rate time is passing in our world. The Luke Thanet mysteries by Dorothy Simpson are the only mystery series I can think of where the same thing applies (and has any significance). Danny: I don't know - I think that if the point had been to have the rather idle journey of Dorothy and company through Oz punctuated by the suspense of seeing the Nome King's plot working its way to fruition, there should be some mention of said plot after they'd left the Fuddles. The whole business of the zebra and the crab, Utensia (my personal favorite bit of their travels), Bunbury, Bunnybury, Flutterbudget Center, Rigmarole Town, and everything in between is uninterrupted by any adumbration of what Roquat is up to. If Baum was trying for suspense in the Hitchcockian sense, I don't think he did a very good job of it. And welcome back - I've been wondering where you've been! Bob C.: Oz is clearly closely connected with our world, so teaching Latin and Greek makes sense, but there are a lot of strong arguments against its being physically somewhere on our world - not the least of which is, where could it be that would be consistent with events in all of the FF? Even if you restrict yourself to Baum, it's apparently within 24 hours of Kansas at a speed of no more than 70 mph (that's about the maximum speed of a tornado across the ground - in fact, that's very fast for one), or 1680 miles - probably much less, since Dorothy slept but apparently didn't get hungry on the way. That doesn't get you from Kansas into the Pacific at all (especially since tornadoes usually travel eastward), yet the Oz continent is apparently reachable from somewhere in the Pacific in OZMA. And if you get into Thompson you get even more impossible cases - Peter is washed overboard off Cape Hatteras in the Atlantic and swims to Octagon Island, which is no more than a couple of days' sail from the Oz continent. Even if Oz is magically invisible, if it's on our world it has to be _somewhere_, and there isn't any location that's consistent with all the FF. >Craig writes again:>I read the entire chapter out loud to my wife, >and even she (who usually just humors my Oz habit )< >So, you have one of those, too! :-) Join the club. :-) (Although my wife does like one published Oz book - THE GLASS CAT OF OZ, by, dang, what was that guy's name... :-)) Scott C.: I think the LFB award nominations - and elections - are the province of those who've already received one. But I'd say that Dave deserves it at least as much as a lot of people who've received it. Whether the relatively limited number of on-line people who have been blessed by his efforts will be considered to count for enough is a separate question, but it should be considered that there are probably more people who read the Digest every day than go to any one of the Oz conventions each year. Lisa: I would hope that the shagginess of Shaggy wouldn't have any effect one way or the other on how appropriate people felt about Dorothy's going off with him. (Of course, I'm pretty shaggy myself, at least on the lower half of my head...) Sometimes Baum seemed to buy into the "weak female" bit - remember in DOTWIZ how Dorothy fainted, but Zeb, being a boy, didn't, as they fell through the crack in the earth? Most of the time, though, at least in his fantasy books, the females were mentally stronger than the males. I have a couple of friends who are professional comic book artists, and they say that comic book illustration is a completely different art form from book or magazine illustration. It's the matter of having the illustration _tell_ the story as opposed to just embellishing it. There's also the factor of the number of illustrations required for a given length of story. You just can't afford to get as detailed in comics. Jeremy: I think that the radio that was used to communicate with Baum was probably highly directional, so that the magical-power requirement was low. And the possibility of anyone else picking up the stories that were transmitted was near zero. After all, Glinda would know exactly how to point the antenna. I like your comparison of Oz to Brigadoon. With more of a random, rather than once-a-century, opening of the way between. Ummm...New Jersey isn't usually considered part of New England, which stops at the New York State border. Close, though. I use Netscape's E-mail, too. Want my opinion? Bob S.: The Nome King's army never fights outside his realm in the FF, though it does in quite a few non-FF stories. I think that when Baum refers to Aunt Em's skirts being "tucked up" he means that she'd have taken a handful of the skirt, about where her hands would naturally grab it in a normal standing position, and pulled it up and tucked it into the belt of her apron. The skirts worn by adult women in that day were floor-length, but this wasn't really practical for anything active, so in the privacy of her own home she'd tuck them up so the skirts were only mid-calf length in front. I can remember seeing this sort of thing done in the days when long skirts were popular back around 1970, though of course there was much less dread of having an ankle (or almost anything else) seen in those days. There was the same problem of tripping over one's skirts, though. The gold shoes of the Sawhorse were probably attributable to the fact that gold was the commonest and cheapest metal in Oz. It wouldn't last terribly long, but it was easily replaced. Steel doesn't seem to be all that readily available there. I don't really want to get into arguing the morality of the Bunbury visit. It's one of my least favorite chapters in Baum, anyhow. Nickel is a metal that doesn't tarnish or corrode easily, but then so is tin. I'm not sure what the advantage of nickel-plating tin would be. Nickel is much harder than tin, but a plating wouldn't have that much effect. As for luster, I think the two materials are fairly comparable - not nearly as bright as silver or aluminum, or gold if you're not looking for the blue-green end of the spectrum, or even chromium, but brighter than iron or steel or zinc. Baum almost always extolled the virtues of being different. The passage you quote (about the Growleywogs, I think?) is very out of character for him. Maybe R&B stuck it in. Ruth: I don't think we can say that it took Ozma a while to figure out how to close the tunnel - once the idea occurred to her she seems to have known exactly what to do. However, it's obvious that Ozma wasn't thinking very clearly during most of this book; she did a whole series of dumb things, from the way she brought Uncle Henry and Aunt Em to Oz to not consulting Glinda as soon as she found out about the Nome King's invasion. What's one more? I don't think Trot or Betsy really do anything significant as part of the rescue party in _Lost Princess_. For that matter, neither do any of the animals except maybe the Woozy and the Sawhorse, that I recall. (The Woozy and Sawhorse did carry most of the others across the thistle field - though that was really an IE.) Speedy did have an interesting collection of "curses", though none of them were in the least offensive. Maybe that's why I liked him so much better than the rather similar Peter. (It would be hard to identify one of them from the other in Neill's illustrations, that's for sure. He was much more uniform in depicting his boy characters than his girls, even though his girls weren't all that well-differentiated. Especially the ones who were more or less contemporary - try to tell Bob Up, Peter, Philador, Speedy, Randy, and Ojo apart just from their faces in the books from _Cowardly Lion_ through _Speedy_.) Scott H.: For the record, the word is spelled "sacrilegious". I think there was something left out of your message, but it was probably my statement that I'd never seen "The Wiz". One of these days I've really got to do that. But it's never been a very high priority. I still haven't gotten around to watching all the "Oz Kids" videos I have, or "HM The Scarecrow" or "The Magic Cloak of Oz", for that matter. I find it hard to make time to watch videos, when there are so many books I want to read and reread. I read faster than most people, but I can't watch a video any faster than the average TV addict. It's true that Guph may be an ureliable speaker, but Baum puts Glinda in the north in _Tik-Tok_ as well, so I think it's not unreasonable to consider that he's Directionally Challenged. >> An average Oz book for me. Maybe a bit under average. Thank Ozma >> that the great books 7,8,9,11,13, and 14 follow!!! >I think 12 is great, but that's just me, the postmodernist... I, on the other hand, think 10 is great, but agree with Douglas on 12... _No_ evidence for such things as global warming? Only if you're a follower of Rush ("Don't confuse me with facts!") Limbaugh. There has definitely been an increase in the average temperature of the earth over the past couple of decades. Whether this is because of "greenhouse effect" or some other cause is debatable, but not that it's happening. Tyler: Dorothy may have said the line "There's no place like home," in the book, but it wasn't the final line and it wasn't even particularly important in the context of the book. And I think that the "home" she referred to was "with Uncle Henry and Aunt Em," not "Kansas." (As you acknowledge.) Peter H.: Thanks for the update on Michael Riley's book. I'll know now not to hold my breath... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:53:53 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 SCOTT HUTCHINS: >> Steadman forgets to say it, I'll remark that "Sir Gyle" is indeed >impossible, >> and evidently an error for the plural construction, Are.) >huh? argyle. atticus * * * "The crash of the whole solar and stellar systems could only kill you once." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:28:15 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest-whenever I think Emerald City was the last Oz book that I managed to locate and read. I was at least into college before I tracked it down. I was aware of the main action of the book, of course, (Dorothy and her aunt and uncle move to Oz permanently, and the Nome King tries to tunnel into Oz with an army of conquerors, only to be tricked into drinking from the Fountain of Oblivion once he gets there.) since both events are frequently mentioned in subsequent books. In addition, one of my cousins had a copy of the abridged version which was printed in the '40s or '50s in a very small, almost toy book format, and that at least mentioned most of the odd villages that Dorothy's party visited on their tour. When finally read, however, I found it disapointing, and it will never be a favorite. Still, there is a great deal which may be said for it and it is certainly one of Baum's more ambitious undertakings. In the first place, just to state the obvious, EC, and Patchwork Girl are probably the two longest Oz books that Baum wrote. And there is a good deal of material in them to work with. More significantly, City is also the first book in the series where he used the "multiple story line" construction which he also used to such good effect in Lost Princess and Magic, and capably, if with slightly less distinction in Tik-Tok and Glinda. Traces of this format even appear in Scarecrow, Tin Woodman and Rinnkitink, but not to the degree that one could honestly call them books with multiple story lines. The introduction of this, rather more sophisticated method of story-telling was a valuable enrichment to the series, and seems to be aimed at a (very) slightly higher reading level than that of the first five. (The same should be said for Zixi, which also makes heavy use of this form.) It is unfortunate that one of the main story lines used in City is so very trivial. I'm sorry, even though the purpose of sending the Gale family off on a tour was to get them out of the way for a while, their safari through deepest exurbia is hard to take in one lump. Any of these IEs taken individually is an amusing little time-waster, but there really needs to be something with a bit more substance to it mixed inamong them (no, Dorothy's quest for breakfast is not substantial enough). The total has the rather gaudy facination of a string of plastic pop-pearls. Decorative, and peculiar, but with no intrinsic value, and little durability. Even more difficult to accept is the reversal of North and South, spreading Glinda's influence into the Giliken Country. This seems just plain sloppy, and unforgivable in that it could have been so easily corrected with even minimally competent copy editing. (Question, was series writing typically this disjointed at the turn of the century? Is Baum an exception, or --possibly-- a model of continuity for his day?) There are a few notable elements to this part of the story. We see a bit of the Lion's sense of humor in his meeting with Aunt Em. McGraw picked up on this a bit in Merry-Go-Round, but neither Thompson, nor the other Historians seem to have exploited the possibilities much. Toto is being a bone-headed dog, as usual (must be a terrier, as illustrated, although I'm not sure Neil got the breed right) there begins to be an ugly undertone to this behavior when you later "discover" that by this point in time he was perfectly capable of understanding everything that was going on around him, and consiously CHOSE to behave like a dumb beast, even to the extent of devouring sentient beings when the opportunity arose, and refusing to communicate, even to Dorothy, in an unambiguous manner. Billena as in Ozma, is still clearly an adult, but just as clearly not a human adult. She a hen, one who enjoys luxury when it is offered, but holds no real apreciation for civility, or some of its more sophisticated concepts (like giving your children individual names). As was seen in the Ev henhouse, her natural belligerance is evident upon more than one occasion. Baum appears to have had a clear understanding of both chickens and dogs, at any rate. I'm less convinced that he really knew and understood cats. If he had, he might not have simply given them speech, and made them sound concieted. Cats aren't, particularly. Being predators, they seem convinced that they cannot afford to lose face, but they seem no more concieted than most other non-canines. Particularly when the speech he gave them was nowhere nearly so obvciously"feline" in their tone as Bellina's sentiant chicken sentiments are in hers. One faintly off note was struck in the story of the foundation of Bunnybury. That the country was ONLY open to ALBINO rabbits strikes an oddly white-supremecist tone, particulary give that the book was written during a period that the Klan was beginning to gather power throughout the south and Midwest. Still, it is just as in keeping with Glinda's mindset, what we've seen of it so far, that she might have given the albinos their safe, closed country in consideration of their natural disadvantages for leading life in the wild. (She may also have been letting her own national biases creep through out of admiration of their pink eyes. :->) But Baum doesn't SAY so, and one is left wondering. On the other hand, the book's other main story line, that of the Nome King's campaign to conquer Oz could hardly be inproved. This is outstanding story-telling, and, frankly, carries the rest of the book. Ozma's reaction to the threat of invasion is so bizarre that I find it difficult to swallow. Clearly this is supposed to demonstrate to the reader that good will always triumph, and need not stoop to the level of its enemies to do so, but while salvation as an act of faith makes for very fine theology, it seems a little out of place under the circumstances. Ozma's reaction to the situation reads more like a conviction that of course no one would ever want to harm HER people, would they? Or even an idea that if her enemy would not listen to sweet reason, there was nothing to do but surrender with a good grace. This is so gross a departure in outlook from the haughty child queen who set out with an army of 27 officers to conquer the Nome King and rescue his royal prisoners (let alone the attitudes of that little scamp Tip) that I flatly cannot believe it. While I can certainly accept that Ozma will have seen and understood the futility of attempting resistance with an army of one, that she should be seen to be taking no particular magical measures either is incomprehensible. (She could at least have had the love magnet fetched from the City gates to wear to meet the invaders.) It is as though she has gone so far to the other behavioral extreme as to have slipped all connection to reality. Butch up a LITTLE, dearie... ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 14:38:34 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-29-97 David L.: One problem with your proposed name is that it suggests you'll leave Oz a rec . . . Also, I tried the url for the ring site and got a "doesn't exist" message. Are you aware of this? : Why, to be educated about the other worlds out there! Most of the human race doesn't have that advantage! Re: a less shaggy Shaggy? Good point, Lisa--people who "look" like uneducated street wanderers usually get less preferential treatment in our world than those who look like refined folk. (I certainly am not defending this pattern; I merely mention that it exists.) Aunt E & Uncle H's acceptance of Oz's existence: I guess they'd heard about it so much from Dorothy that they . . . no, that doesn't sound too reasonable to me either. I guess that was just Baum's ideal world--where the Ozziness spreads through everyone. Roquat and his army: A direct prediction of the World Wars . . . Baum was no fool. Ruth B.: You forgot one notable group of Nomes--Lewis Carroll's Nome Raths (how outgrabe they were!). Rat Abatement Department: You have it all wrong, Scott--the purpose of this department is to ensure that no rats ever plague NYC. Remember Murphy's Law? If there's sufficient preparation for a rat infestation (and everyone is convinced there will be one), the converse of Murphy's Law says there won't be one at all. "N'est pas" vs. "N'est-ce pas?": It all depends on whether you're saying "isn't" or "isn't that so?" "(In case Jeremy Steadman forgets to say it, I'll remark that "Sir Gyle is indeed impossible, and evidently an error for the plural construction, Are.)": I still have no idea what you're talking about. (I like my pun better--see yesterday's Digest.) Lack of aging: A terrible tragedy for any wine cellar. I mean seller. --Jeremy Steadman, with a few scattered apologies ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 18:49:55 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozy Digest Hi, What happened to Eureka after Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz? Thanks -- David Levitan Oz Enthusiast wizardofoz@iname.com Netscape Supporter Designer of the Wonderful Land of Oz http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075 Ring Master of the Oz Web Ring http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=ozsite;home ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:02:50 -0700 From: movieposter Subject: Very Scarce "Wizard of Oz" Poster Very Scarce "Wizard of Oz" Poster In 1974 the movie "That's Entertainment" reprised film clips from nearly 100 MGM musicals. It was released worldwide. The Spanish language version of the movie poster for "That's Entertainment" highlighted a famous scene from "The Wizard of Oz"---Scarecrow, Tin Man, Dorothy, Lion with arms linked, dancing through a field of flowers. The poster (an oversized lobby card/title card) is appx 16.5" x 12.5". The still from the Wizard of Oz", which is on the poster, is appx 7.5" x 6". The poster contains the MGM logo, Spanish title ("Erase Una Vez En Hollywood"), English title, collage of two dozen MGM stars' names in various type styles, credits for the film, and a score of MGM stars' images from the film, "That's Entertainment". On the lower right side is the famous still from "The Wizard of Oz", which dominates the poster. The poster is in full color, the still is b&w. Judy Garland appears three times on the poster. Condition is very good. Scanned image available. (two halves of poster scanned and pasted together) Price $250. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 23:14:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: Very Scarce "Wizard of Oz" Poster Dear "Ozzy" Digesters: I received this wonderful email this evening re: a "rare" "Wizard of Oz" poster for sale. Thought I would share it with you in case anyone is interested. Ozzily, Jim Whitcomb of ... Jim's "Wizard of Oz" Website URL: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/ >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:09:38 -0700 >From: movieposter >Subject: Very Scarce "Wizard of Oz" Poster >To: whitcomb.1@osu.edu >Reply-to: movieposter@usa.net > >Very Scarce "Wizard of Oz" Poster > >In 1974 the movie "That's Entertainment" reprised film clips from nearly >100 MGM musicals. >It was released worldwide. > >The Spanish language version of the movie poster for "That's >Entertainment" highlighted a famous scene from "The Wizard of >Oz"---Scarecrow, Tin Man, Dorothy, Lion with arms linked, dancing >through >a field of flowers. > >The poster (an oversized lobby card/title card) is appx 16.5" x 12.5". >The still from the Wizard of Oz", >which is on the poster, is appx 7.5" x 6". > >The poster contains the MGM logo, Spanish title ("Erase Una Vez En >Hollywood"), English title, collage of two dozen MGM stars' names in >various type styles, credits for the film, and a score of MGM stars' >images from the film, "That's Entertainment". On the lower right side >is the famous still from "The Wizard of Oz", which dominates the >poster. The poster is in full color, the still is b&w. Judy Garland >appears three times on the poster. > >Condition is very good. >Scanned image available. (two halves of poster scanned and pasted >together) > >Price $250. > ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 31 Aug 97 10:15:41 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things ALMA MATTERS: I'm afraid I still fail to see what possible use Latin and Greek would be to Ozites. Also, does anyone know if Wogglebug College has gone co-ed yet? AT THE MOVIES: I remember someone asking about Miss Gulch's bicycle and whether it would be anachronistic for 1899 (when the HACC says _WizOz_ actually occured) -- I watched _Adventure in Baltimore_, which takes place in 1905, and in one scene Shirley Temple and John Agar are seen riding modern-looking bicycles...Of course this doesn't prove that *they* aren't anachronistic, but since they (unlike MGM with _WizOz_) were striving to recreate a particular period, one would hope that they did their homework. Speaking of movies, Jellia has a new favorite movie -- _Cluny Brown_, which stars Jennifer Jones as a sprightly and free-thinking maidservant... :) "WHY OZMA SLEPT": JOdel@aol.com wrote: >Ozma's reaction to the threat of invasion is so bizarre that I find it >difficult to swallow. Clearly this is supposed to demonstrate to the reader >that good will always triumph... Actually, it is quite timely that we're discussing _ECOz_ now, since my mom is reading John F. Kennedy's _Why England Slept_, which seems to suggest that England had a bit of a pre-WWII mindset that "good" (through peaceful diplomacy) would always triumph. Of course _ECOz_ goes much farther and asks us to believe that Ozma would stand by and do nothing even while the Blitz was in the progress of leveling London. >Ozma's reaction to the situation reads more like a conviction that of >course no one would ever want to harm HER people, would they? >Or even an idea that if her enemy would not listen to sweet reason, >there was nothing to do but surrender with a good grace. This is so gross >a departure in outlook from the haughty child queen who set out with an >army of 27 officers to conquer the Nome King and rescue his royal >prisoners... Her leadership was definitely erratic in those early days and she has admitted as much to me...She would never stand idlely by nowadays! (She doesn't in _Locasta_!) WEB RING: Jeremy wrote: >Also, I tried the url for the ring site and got a "doesn't exist" >message. Are you aware of this? I am getting this message as well... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave ************************************************************ Dave Hardenbrook, E-Mail: DaveH47@delphi.com URL: http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ Computer Programmer, Honorary Citizen of the Land of Oz, and Editor of "The Ozzy Digest" (The _Wizard of Oz_ online fan club) "When we are young we read and believe The most Fantastic Things... When we grow older and wiser We learn, with perhaps a little regret, That these things can never be... WE ARE QUITE, QUITE *** WRONG ***!!!" -- Noel Coward, "Blithe Spirit" ************************************************************