] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 29 - OCTOBER 1, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:58:00 -0400 From: Bruce Gray Subject: Oz Digest: Art and story in LP Hi all! I've been following the discussion of Lost Princess this time with the aid of three different copies of LP: a trade paper reprint (with "Rand McNally" on the spine), a Del Rey paperback, and an "Aerie" paperback (which they sold in Wal-Marts a while back for $0.50). The "Aerie" copy doesn't have any interior illustrations. I must say that of the three editions I have, I prefer the cover art to the Del Rey edition. I, for one, would love to see Michael Herring do more Oz related art. Although we know the Frogman didn't visit Thi during LP, the cover other than that is one of the most Ozzy I can remember. Even the door and windows on the house in the background are right. LP has always been one of my personal favorites (along with "Emerald City" and "Glinda"). As a child, I never noticed the inconsistencies that we are all noticing now as adults. I enjoy the sagas of travel thru the unknown territories of Oz. One of my favorite parts of any Oz book has always been new areas and "people" to find out about. Even if the interlude doesn't make any sense or advance the story, they're -fun-. I'm not sure Baum ever really intended a theme (as these books were written in a time when "theme" wasn't as recognized as it is now) but if there is one, I'd say it was loss and return. Several things are lost and are returned in this book over the course of the story. I've lost count of all of them now, but we have at least: Ozma, the dishpan, Glinda's Book, the Wizard's Bag, Toto's growl, Button Bright (again? :-) and many others. Sorry if this letter got here late - I've been real busy at work and on my "regular" web pages lately. BTW, I just got this cool catalog from a company called: "What On Earth" with a -lot- of neat Oz things in it on pages 58 and 59. They have a toll free number - 800-945-2552. I have nothing to do with this company. Ask for the "Holiday Preview" issue and tell them why! BTW, my URL for my Oz Sites page has changed again: http://home.rica.net/CaptainNemo/link/ozwizard.htm Bruce Gray lbrucegray@rica.net ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:54:17 -0700 (PDT) From: VoVat Quetzalcoatlus Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 X-Originating-IP: [144.80.160.14] > Where else in Baum's books do we find information on animal speech? JOHN >DOUGH tells us that on Phreex different animals have different languages, >so they can't speak to each other or to humans. Actually, this was on the Isle of Mifkets, not Phreex. We meet a talking horse on Phreex, but whether this equine is a special case or an indication that all animals on Phreex can talk is unknown. Duo the dog didn't talk, and I can't recall there being any other Phreexian animals described in the text. ><would >probably never have invaded the Emerald City. Tip, Jack Pumpkinhead >and the >Sawhorse would probably still be wandering around Oz, having all >sorts of >exciting adventures. Would Oz still be divided up between the various >Witches, or would Glinda have ever moved against them? Would the >Wizard >still rule in EC?>> I speculated on this very scenario some time ago, and my ideas are up on my web page somewhere. I forget the exact address of the page (something like dorothy.html), but I believe it can be accessed by way of my Oz page. David: >As for Eureka and Jim (and the piglets, for that matter) talking >before >they get into Oz, Oz is far from the only place where animals can >talk in >Baum's fantasy world. There's Mo, Burzee, Foxville, Dunkiton, Mifket >Island, the Laughing Valley of Hohaho - and, apparently, the >underground >countries encountered in _DotWiz_. Well, I'm not really sure if Burzee and Hohaho count. In _Santa Claus_, it was stated that Claus had learned the languages of animals. Whether an ordinary inhabitant of Hohaho would be able to understand a lioness or reindeer is unknown, but I would tend to doubt it. Nathan http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:11:15 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 Magic in Oz: No, I'm not talking about the book here. I wanted to give my opinion that J.L. Bell's theory whereby Burzee is the center of magic (in and out of Oz) sounds more reasonable than an "Ozo-centric" view. After all, Oz itself would never have been "magicified" had Burzee's queen not done what she did. (Not that I fault her, by any means!) Or, as Mr. Bell also says, the fault may lie in ourselves, and by coming to Oz, etc., one becomes able to _understand_ "lower" animals. Thus we have the scene in whichever book it is that shows Toto talking for the first time. (I'm not good with remembering which book has what events.) More What-ifs: What if Ozma were less kind? What if Mombi, the Nomes, etc., were more competent? What if Glinda had an "It's not my problem" attitude toward everything? What if Dorothy ended up in another part of Baumgea? What if Oz retained its life-threatening qualities demonstrated in _TWWoO_? (There are many more I could come up with, but there'll be time later on...) Until then, Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 In a message dated 9/28/98 4:59:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: << WI the Wizard had never come to Oz? Dorothy's journey would be boring! WI Dorothy's house missed? hmm.... WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? She probably would have wound up whereever the wizrd got to....I highly doubt she would have gotten home that way WI There had been no Marvelous Powder of Life? no jack pumpkinhead, no sawhorse WI Billina hadn't been with Dorothy in Ev? hmmm... WI the Wizard had never returned to Oz? well he really didn't add anything by coming back WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? oz wouldn't exist b/c the gnome king woud have conquered it>> ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:18:05 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Oz stuff I have posted a picture of Chris Lofven and joy Dunstan on my page. It can be accessed from the filmography or with the file name LOFVENOZ.JPG. Jane: Perhaps you could petition to be IWOC liaison for Robert Halmi, Sr.'s Oz production. :) Does anyone know who I can contact to get the 1998 IWOC calendar that I paid for. I ordered it back in March and never received it. I never did buy 1 1998 calendar, so I've been without one, and I want the artwork, anyway. I think I'm probably the only person who would write a script where someone says "Hey, I've read _Queen Zixi of Ix_! in response to a comment from someone else that seems related to it. Scott ======================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:47:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz stamp Jim and all -- Mike Gessel, who's still "plugging away" at the stamp project has had the folks behind the annual Chittenango Oz celebration express their interest in making this happen through their state representative. It's actually easier to accomplish going through governement channels than trying to build public demand. That avenue appears to be our best bet at this point. I'll ask Mike for suggestions about how interested people can support the project at this point. I suspect it will be a request to ask you senators/representatives to support the plan that the Chittenango-area representative will put forth, when he or she does that. I was personally disheartened when the new stamp series was introduced that is celebrating each decade of the 20th century. It would have been a perfect fit there, and I don't know if it was ever considered. Word from Christine Baum today, the site selection for the KC area theme park is now TBD in February with ground breaking in the summer. Jane Albright ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:30:49 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 In a message dated 9/28/98 1:59:51 PM, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: >Ruth wrote that RINKITINK may imply <change from a four-legged critter to a two-legged bird.>> That's the only >example of a bird seeming "above" mammals that I could recall, but the >same >passage would imply that sheep are smarter than goats. Baaaa, humbug! My take on the initial goat-to-sheep transformation was that it was a necessary first step of getting Prince Bobo OUT of the form he was confined to by the original enchantment. Basically, this was a fishing expedition to determine whether his shape COULD still be changed. With this in mind one uses as small a step as one can manage, in order to maximise the liklihood of its taking. Good point that if the Wizard had still ruled the EC, Mombi may not have decided to transform Tip into a marble statue at just that point in time (if ever) and that he may not have run away. In that case, since Ozma would not have been restored, would the land of Oz still have aging and death, since there seems to be a strong partiality toward the theory that Ozians only became imortal after Ozma's accention to the throne? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:15:24 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: color-plated Oz Earlier I quoted a passage from Michael Patrick Hearn's BUGLE article "An Illustrator's Illustrator": Neill had little control over his pictures once they reached Reilly & Britton. He did not even color the color plates himself in most of the books; the printers generally took care of that by painting proofs of a dozen line drawings themselves. Neill did not always indicate which ones should be used, but left that decision to Reilly & Britton. In response Robin Olderman wrote: <> Only Hearn could say for sure, but I think his antecedent for "which ones" is "line drawings," meaning indeed that sometimes Neill didn't state which illustrations he meant for the color plates. On the other hand, Robin, your observation may hold a clue to how Neill and his colorizers worked together. If Neill drew his outlines for color plates in a noticeably different style from his full-page b/w illustrations, he may have trusted Reilly & Lee's printers to pick them out, especially after years of working together. In other words, Neill, though <>, nevertheless could have managed to <>. Hearn doesn't quote, and I don't think anyone's pointed out, an instance in which Neill complained that the wrong drawing was chosen for colorization, or suggested that another be used instead. That sort of evidence would be decisive. It would be at least indicative if there were a pattern of when Neill left no statements about color plates: if that happened more often on later books, or books in which (as Ruth Berman pointed out) the color plates and b/w illustrations show the same scenes, or books like JACK PUMPKINHEAD in which most of the full-page b/w drawings are two-page spreads, then we might infer Neill said nothing about plate choices because he felt he didn't have to. Good point, Dave Hulan, about the Evian sparrow speaking in MAGIC. It doesn't explain Nana's surprise at Billina, but it's another dot on the graph to account for. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:15:42 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-28-98 J.L.: >As for the Lonesome Duck, it seems clearly to be a "Magician Duck," in >Cap'n Bill's words; if I were an ordinary bird, I sure wouldn't take its >example to mean I could alight on that island. Maybe not, but Dorothy says, "Then you can transform Trot and Cap'n Bill into birds or bumblebees, and they can fly away to the other shore." Of course, Dorothy isn't an expert on magic, and the Wizard actually transformed them into bumblebees so we don't know for sure whether birds would have been rooted or not, but to the extent that there's any data that's a clue that birds don't take root. The Wizard doesn't contradict her, anyhow. Robin: I've heard about Gardner's new Oz book forthcoming from St. Martin's for a year or so now in various places, so I think it's a new novel and not a new edition of Baum's _Queer Visitors_ with a Gardner intro. Scott H.: Very few works of fantasy are sold as mainstream, and those almost invariably by authors who are well-established already. When you put fantasy elements into a first novel you're probably not going to sell it as anything but fantasy. >I'd like to try again, but unfortunately, I don't have access to _Literary >Marketplace_ for information on another agent. You don't have a public library? Dave: Some interesting What Ifs you suggest. But I think most of them either don't affect much more than one story, or at most a few characters (the absence of the Powder of Life, for instance, would mean no Jack Pumpkinhead or Sawhorse or Glass Cat or Patchwork Girl, but none of them really had a major impact on Ozian history that I can think of), or would leave Oz so completely different that speculation is pointless. Some comments on some of them: >WI the Wizard had never come to Oz? This is one that would make so much difference that speculation is almost impossible. >WI Reera took an interest in outside affairs? Probably wouldn't make a lot of difference if her interest was aroused after Ozma's accession; if before, then she probably would have ousted Mombi early on and Queen Orin would never have been transformed. A Reera who takes an interest in outside affairs would be an adequate substitute GWN. >WI Dorothy's house missed? >WI the WWW had encountered Singra's water-nymph and been rendered H2O-proof? Either of these would probably have ended up with Dorothy enslaved more or less permanently; the result would be more or less the same as if Dorothy had never come to Oz at all. >WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? I don't see that this would have had any effect other than shortening the first Oz book; everything affecting Ozian history that happened after the Wizard left Oz would probably have happened about the same anyhow. The Cowardly Lion might have stayed in the EC, but he ended up back there shortly in any case. Possibly his presence as a defender of the Scarecrow would have short-circuited Jinjur's revolt. I'm sure Glinda would have contrived to get the Golden Cap somehow if Dorothy had left it in the EC. It might make a difference that Dorothy still had the silver shoes when she got back to Kansas - if they didn't disappear when she left Oz even though it wasn't done using their power. But since we know the Wizard returned safely to America, the ultimate outcome would also have brought Dorothy safely back to America as well, and that was the only historically important thing that happened after the Wizard left. >WI Billina hadn't been with Dorothy in Ev? Dorothy would either have been captured by the Wheelers or starved, since Billina found the key that let her gain Tik-tok as an ally. And Ozma and her party would be ornaments in the Nome King's palace, unless Glinda took a hand. >WI the Wizard had never returned to Oz? I don't see a profound effect; a lot of the stories would run differently, but the Wiz isn't a key plot element in any of the critical junctures of Ozian history that I can recall. I'm reasonably sure that given time, Glinda would have solved the mystery of Ozma's disappearance and would have defeated Ugu; it would just have taken longer. >WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? Or WI the Nome King's tunnel hadn't just happened to open up in front of it? Oz, and eventually the rest of the world as well, would have been overrun by the Phanfasms. They were so much more powerful than the Growleywogs, Whimsies, and Nomes that the other allies would have been no better off than the Ozites. I think it's time to set a date for discussing _Tin Woodman_. Not one of Baum's better plot lines, but a book with a great deal of information about Oz that isn't to be found elsewhere. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:07:44 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz John Bell: Since other countries in the area appear to be magical, it seems to me that the ultimate source of magic is not Lurline's spell. I lean to the Aaron Adelman theory that the whole world is magical, and that the raw magical power flows up into the world. Certain kinds of rock, water, wind, living creatures etc may affect the amount of flow and this level of resistance may vary with time. If so, then animals may or may not have the ability to talk at any time. Lurline's spell affected Oz itself and strengthened the inherent magic already there. Given this, it might seems at first that the underground countries, such as those visited in _Dotwiz_, would be more powerful. If there is a universal magical source in the world of Oz, it may not necessarily originate in the center of the globe, and even if it did, power may not necessarily directly relate to distance. Jack and the Sawhorse would probably still be around regardless of Dorothy's visit. Their creation, which was the result of a magical trade and mischief on the part of Tip, did not seem dependent on the political climate. That was a brilliant point about the situation leading Mombi to propose a "final solution" to Tip. She must have sensed a shift in the winds. She shouldn't have told Tip about her plan in advance, though. However, I'm glad she did. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 12:04:27 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BCF: How about Wednesday, Oct. 14 to start with _Tin Woodman_? LOST PRINCESS: I'll never forget the synopsis for LPOz at the back of one of my early Oz books from the library...It began: "Talk about Button-Bright getting lost; *Ozma* is *almost* as bad!" Is this possibly *the* understatement of all time?? TALKING ANIMALS: I still go along with my own "Babel Fish" theory, in which it was part of Lurline's enchantment that all languages (including those of animals) are understandable to everyone, even visitors from outside...Like other aspects of Lurline's enchantment, I think this has "leaked" into certain other countries... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 2 - 5, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:30:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Survived OK, before more of you e-mail me than have already, please rest assured that I and mine were not flooded out, killed, sodden or otherwise forced to suffer from last night's flooding in Kansas City. I didn't know any of those killed or reported missing, so except for some unwelcome minor streams in the basement, we were quite unaffected. Though it was midtown -- where I live -- that took the worst of it, I'm in a cut-stone, tile-roofed house that's stood defiantly on high ground for just shy of 100 years. We are warm, dry and cosy no matter what nature's dumping all about us. The lightening didn't even wake Joy and I spent most of the time making cinnamon rolls. Thanks for the concern (which I extend to many of you presumptuously) and prayers (many of my friends do that, you know....) Ever thine, Jane ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 20:44:26 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Dave wrote: "LOST PRINCESS: >I'll never forget the synopsis for LPOz at the back of one of my early >Oz books from the library...It began: "Talk about Button-Bright getting >lost; *Ozma* is *almost* as bad!" Is this possibly *the* understatement >of all time?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those synopsis in the Reilly & Lee "white cover" books were written by Jack Snow. (What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: VoVat Quetzalcoatlus Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Jeremy: >What if Mombi, the Nomes, etc., were more competent? Well, the Nomes might have managed to conquer Oz and enslave its inhabitants. Then again, if Roquat had been more competent during _Ozma_, the important Ozites might have gained permanent places in his ornament collection, and he wouldn't have even gotten the idea to conquer Oz. After all, he had no intention of conquering Ev, even though he had the royal family in his power. >What if Glinda had an "It's not my problem" attitude toward > everything? She played such a large part in Ozian history that this is really too important a change to even begin speculating. Ozma might well never have taken the throne, though. Without Glinda's interference, Mombi could easily have used Jinjur's queenship to gain more power for herself. >What if Dorothy ended up in another part of Baumgea? She would have had different adventures, for one thing. The impact on Oz would probably have been similar to what would have happened if she had not been caught in the tornado at all. >What if Oz retained its life-threatening qualities demonstrated in > _TWWoO_? Most of the meat characters would probably be dead by now. LuVCHACHI: > WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? oz wouldn't exist b/c the >gnome >king woud have conquered it>> I don't know about that. Ozma still had the Magic Belt, and she could have used it to transform or transport the invaders. David: >>WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? >Or WI the Nome King's tunnel hadn't just happened to open up in front >of >it? Oz, and eventually the rest of the world as well, would have >been >overrun by the Phanfasms. They were so much more powerful than the >Growleywogs, Whimsies, and Nomes that the other allies would have >been no >better off than the Ozites. True. I already mentioned that Ozma could have used the Belt against the invaders, but the Phanfasms might have been powerful or crafty enough to resist its magic. Their memory loss left them in a much more vulnerable state than usual. Nathan Mulac DeHoff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 01:24:55 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Jeremy: I think the weight of the evidence is against the effect being attributed to us being able to understand animals. If so, we would have heard Toto's barks as words from the begining, but he instead waited and chose to speak in our language at a specific time. And now, to gripe about the "Burzo-centric" theory :-) It seems to me that the underlying assumption here is that fairy magic is the ultimate magical power in the Universe. That is, that all magic in the world has its source with Lurline and her band. It is far more likely that magic is everywhere and fairies just use one application of it. There is a great deal of magic in the magical world, and most of it does not seem to derive from the fairies. Oz itself was probably magical before Lurliens enchantement, although the enchantment certainly enhanced and magnified that inherent nature, so that Oz is more magical and special than any other land. Joyce: If the WIzard was still on the throne (and assuming that Tip never became Ozma), aging and death may or may not have come about. Many people (including myself) seem to think that non-aging and deathlessness was part of Lurline's original plan, and that it would become fully realized when Ozma ascended the throne. The transformation to Tip threw the plan out of kilter, so that this situation did not come about fully until a few years after Ozma's ascension. IMHO, the full effects of Lurline's spell would have been realized even if Ozma had remained Tip, although it may have taken much longer. Dave: I remember that line in LPoZ. After I read the thing, I was a little upset at it, since it Ozma did not get "lost" through her own absent-mindedness, but was kidnapped. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:22:19 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Isle of Phreex: Still say it sounds like a crazy sort of place to me . . . Sale of fantasy works: It's too bad that, as David says, few fantasy novels are called fantasy novels when an author starts out. I see his point, but just don't like it . . . <<>WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? I don't see that this would have had any effect other than shortening the first Oz book; everything affecting Ozian history that happened after the Wizard left Oz would probably have happened about the same anyhow. The Cowardly Lion might have stayed in the EC, but he ended up back there shortly in any case. Possibly his presence as a defender of the Scarecrow would have short-circuited Jinjur's revolt. I'm sure Glinda would have contrived to get the Golden Cap somehow if Dorothy had left it in the EC. It might make a difference that Dorothy still had the silver shoes when she got back to Kansas - if they didn't disappear when she left Oz even though it wasn't done using their power. But since we know the Wizard returned safely to America, the ultimate outcome would also have brought Dorothy safely back to America as well, and that was the only historically important thing that happened after the Wizard left.>> So in other words it doesn't make much difference at all...Hmm...Of course, how we're answering many of these questions expresses that as well . . . Interesting. POssibly because we know how it really is and simply believe it'd all fall into place pretty much like that anyway. (Except for Dorothy coming to Oz, of course--now that would have serious consequences.) Earnestly, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 21:30:40 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz and Mombi Bruce Gray wrote: <> I see different levels of themes in Baum's work, some of them seemingly deliberate (like loss and return) and some probably unconscious but reflecting his preoccupations (as I'll mention when we discuss TIN WOODMAN). Because Baum wasn't a theme-driven storyteller, nor the most consistent and careful writer in world literature, his deliberate themes are often as hard to pick out (if they exist) as the latter type. I find looking for themes on rereading to be useful for locating threads that unify the many odd episodes of a typical Oz book's plot, or make inconsistencies a little more understandable, or distinguish one adventure from another. About the treacherous island in MAGIC and whether it traps bees, Dave Hulan wrote: <> When I first read and reread MAGIC, I puzzled about why the bees weren't stuck to the island just as much as Trot and Cap'n Bill were. The answer I came up with, and in physics class later got the vocabulary for, is that THAT WORD transforms people around their centers of mass, or possibly around their centers of intellect (heads). Thus, after becoming much smaller creatures, Trot and the old sailor are located a coupla feet in the air. And since bees can fly, they don't plummet to the ground and get stuck again. What if the Wizard had transformed the pair into elephants or blue whales, we might ask? This theory hypothesizes they'd be nearly half-buried in the soil, their original centers of mass/intellect having been pushed up by the sudden growth of their lower bodies. Jeremy Steadman asked: <> As opposed to only certain things (like Jinxland before Trot arrived)? To the question, "What if Billina hadn't been with Dorothy in Ev?" Dave Hulan wrote: <> There's never firm evidence for what *else* might have happened, but ILTT our Dorothy wouldn't just roll over before the Wheelers. With more time, she may well have found the key to Tik-Tok's cave herself. She's also resourceful and plucky enough to try sneaking out at night, to call passing animals for help, or even to agree reluctantly to serve the Wheelers and soon realize they couldn't do much to her. Whether Dorothy would have met up with Ozma in that circumstance is more dubious. But if we assume she would and (as OZMA shows) she would save herself and the littlest prince of Ev from Roquat, ILTT further that Dorothy would then have tried to rescue Ozma and her followers with the help of the surviving animals, Glinda, and other allies she made (Jinnicky? Bitty Bit?). That mission, against a much more powerful foe than the Wheelers, would have a much lower chance of succeeding, of course. Dorothy might be most successful if Roquat were to toss her into the Hollow Tube! Didn't OZIANA publish a story many years back about the most obvious "what if?" in Oz: What if Dorothy, the Wizard, Zeb, et al. had taken the *other* tunnel from the Dragonettes' cave? I recall it as an attempt to create a more satisfying end to their journey through the underworld. Tyler Jones wrote: <> LAND has some clues that Mombi lay low as a magician until just before the start of the book. Baum at first says Mombi's merely a wizardess and not a witch, though later she's powerful enough to give Glinda [and the Sawhorse] a good run. Mombi also feels compelled to tell Tip she's going grocery-shopping when she's visiting the crooked magician, and it's ambiguous whether she meant to visit him and trade. Perhaps not until she comes back from that trip does Mombi feel like her old witchy self again. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I think this is supervillain mistake #4, right after "Don't make your schemes needlessly complex and your murder machines worthy of Rube Goldberg," and right before, "When you finally have the hero in your clutches, don't take a few more moments to gloat." J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 23:26:45 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Re: VISITORS FROM OZ If I haven't mentioned it before, I work at a Barnes & Noble subsidiary (Bookstop), and today in the receiving room I found--lo and behold--Martin Gardner's new book, _Visitors from Oz: The Wild Adventures of Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman_. I've already read the first couple chapters, and, well, hmmm, I'm not sure it's quite the Oz I know and love. I'll continue to read, however, and in the meantime I shall transcribe the blurb from the dust jacket for you guys. Depending on your opinion of how much a dust jacket really reveals, this may constitute a spoiler, so I'll call it a *****POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR VISITORS FROM OZ BY MARTIN GARDNER******* "Ever since _The Wizard of Oz_ was first published in 1900, Dorothy and her companions have captured the imaginations of Americans, both young and old. Generations of readers raised on L. Frank Baum's incredible Oz books, and on books by his worthy successors, will be amazed and entranced by Martin Gardner's exciting account of further adventures of Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman in the United States. Indeed, by placing the story in Manhattan of the late 1990s, with cameo appearances by Rudy Giulani, Oprah Winfrey, and Geraldo Rivera, Gardner has for the first time ingeniously adapted Baum's immortal characters to an American setting. [Transcriber's aside: How soon we forget this book's own namesake!!!] "While a century's worth of readers has enjoyed the Oz series, it is not generally known that in Baum's fifth Oz book, Ozma teleported Dorothy and her uncle permanently to Oz. Nor is it known that Glinda moved Oz to a parallel world. In Gardner's wild novel, Dorothy and her faithful friends visit several towns in Oz--including Wonderland, a new Mount Olympus, and Ballville--before they arrive in New York's Central Park by way of a mathematical curiosity called a Klein Bottle. "The purpose of their visit to Earth is to publicize a new musical film about Oz. But plans go awry when two evil mobsters, hired by a wicked rival movie producer, try to kill Dorothy and her companions. In their desperate attempts to flee these villains, Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman find themselves in a series of precarious predicaments across New York City. Combining vivid suspense with a host of mathematical riddles and technological pyrotechnics, Martin Gardner has created a new fable in the finest traditions of L. Frank Baum that celebrates the power of the imagination and the lure of an ageless heroine named Dorothy at the turn of a new century. "A jewel of a story, _Visitors from Oz_ will bedazzle children and adults alike for decades to come." *******END POSSIBLE SPOILER************* I shall leave the fun of picking out the errors and inconsistencies in the preceding passage to the individual Digester. Sigh. Perhaps I'll change my tune as I read more. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 12:52:34 -0500 From: Lana Barton Subject: wizard of oz dinisewedge@hotmail.com, a0028875@airmail.net, wonderwench@iname.com, tbear_kats@hotmail.com, jsteadman@loki.berry.edu, vclements@clntraining.com, webmaster@thegarden.com, angel_sunset@hotmail.com, buddyebsen@phantoms.com, birkhard@email.uc.edu, broadway_starzoo@yahoo.com, dian4@aol.com, teddyn13@geocities.com, ston0076@tc.umn.edu, mmeara@kcd.com, blueboy103@aol.com, janners4@geocities.com, captainNemo@rica.net, tammy@lairgauche.com, hqc94@yahoo.com, lullabyleague@hotmail.com, dorothyv@webtv.net, wizozfan@hotmail.com, jergibbs@on-ramp.ior.com, leslie_adcock@hotmail.com, rainbowz@delta.com, fairystar69@gurlmail.com, daveh47@delphi.com, ldweisberg@geocities.com, wizardofoz@bigfoot.com, lambertclay@coastalnet.com Visit my site! I have a cool link that will take you to a site in Kansas that sells Wizard of Oz water globes, t-shirts, pewter collectibles, etc....... While you are there , please sign my guestbook! Lana (toto's World) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 23:34:25 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 Meghan: > WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? She probably would have >wound up whereever the wizrd got to....I highly doubt she would have gotten >home that way The Wizard got back to the US somehow, since he was there at the start of _DotWiz_. If Dorothy had been with him he would presumably have taken care of her during the course of whatever adventures he had on the way, and she'd have ended up back in Kansas eventually. Probably not nearly as soon as she did in _Wizard_, though. In fact, the story of that adventure might be an interesting "alternate Oz" non-fantasy story. It might even be salable in the mainstream market if it were well-enough done, since the balloon going off without Dorothy is in the movie and would therefore be known to most of the general public and not just readers of the books. Scott H.: >Does anyone know who I can contact to get the 1998 IWOC calendar that I >paid for. I ordered it back in March and never received it. I never did >buy 1 1998 calendar, so I've been without one, and I want the artwork, >anyway. Once you see it I'm not sure you'll want the artwork; it's mostly pretty awful. I don't know who you should contact about it, but somebody on the Digest will probably tell you. Joyce: >Good point that if the Wizard had still ruled the EC, Mombi may not have >decided to transform Tip into a marble statue at just that point in time (if >ever) and that he may not have run away. In that case, since Ozma would not >have been restored, would the land of Oz still have aging and death, since >there seems to be a strong partiality toward the theory that Ozians only >became imortal after Ozma's accention to the throne? It seems likely that Oz would have continued to have aging and death as long as the Wizard lived, but because of that he'd presumably have died after another decade or two. Of course, Mombi might have died as well; while Glinda seems to have always been immortal, there's no evidence I can recall that the other Ozian witches were at the time of _Wizard_. Tyler: I agree that Lurline's spell isn't the ultimate source of magic. It gave Oz some characteristics that are different from the other magical lands around it, but Oz was almost certainly a magical land even before the spell. It isn't as magical as Mo even during Ozma's reign, as far as that goes. >Jack and the Sawhorse would probably still be around regardless of >Dorothy's visit. Their creation, which was the result of a magical trade >and mischief on the part of Tip, did not seem dependent on the political >climate. Jack, yes, but the Sawhorse's coming to life depended on Tip's running away, and that was probably a function of the political climate. >She >shouldn't have told Tip about her plan in advance, though. However, I'm >glad she did. But like many villains (fictional ones, anyhow), Mombi enjoyed the psychological torture of telling a potential victim of the bad things that are going to happen to him. It's one of the greatest advantages good characters have over villains. I'm not sure it ever happens in reality, though. Dave: >BCF: >How about Wednesday, Oct. 14 to start with _Tin Woodman_? Fine with me. >I still go along with my own "Babel Fish" theory, in which it was part >of Lurline's enchantment that all languages (including those of animals) >are understandable to everyone, even visitors from outside...Like other >aspects of Lurline's enchantment, I think this has "leaked" into certain >other countries... I like most of the theory, but I doubt if it was part of Lurline's enchantment. There are too many talking animals too far from Oz, and too many non-talking animals too close to Oz, for me to be comfortable with the idea of leakage from an Oz-centered spell. I think the ability to understand all languages is part of the overall magic of Nonestica, but a part that only comes into effect in areas where the concentration of the magic is relatively high. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 14:01:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT Re: Jim's Wizard of Oz Website Hello Oz fans, friends & "family": Great news! My new pages are finished with five weeks to spare before my website's "official" 2nd anniversary!!! I have created four new pages for you to enjoy! All pages can be accessed from my index page; the address is at the bottom of this email. --The first one is a tribute to my favorite Oz character featuring Margaret Hamilton as Miss Gulch and the Wicked Witch of the West. I hope you enjoy this page as much as I did creating it! --Next, with the re-release of MGM's classic film, The Wizard of Oz, just on the horizon, I created two pages which are direct tie-ins to the film. The first is a timeline which chronicles significant events that led to the making of this classic film starting from 1924 when it was just an idea to 1939 when it was first released in theatres. In addition, this page includes scenes that were cut from the final version of the film and awards that "The Wizard of Oz" has won over the years. I must acknowledge a "special" thank you to Jane Albright for allowing me to use some of the elements from "The Oz Chronology" which is on the International Wizard of Oz Club Website. --My third page contains a listing of the various accidents and bloopers that resulted, respectively, during and after the making of "The Wizard of Oz". --Lastly, but certainly not least, I have created a THANK YOU! page highlighting some "special" things that have happened to me during the past year as a result of visitors to my website, including those folks who have given my website "special" recognition. What's next?? Well, who knows! I have lots of ideas for new pages. Some are just that, "ideas", while others are already in progress. The "Oz mouseovers" seemed to be a great hit, so I can promise you that there will be more of them to come, along with a lot of other surprises. As always, Ozzy wishes and the best to you! Jim Whitcomb of ... Jim's "Wizard of Oz" Website URL: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6396/ **PLEASE NOTE: If you received this email it's because you are a Wizard of Oz fan or a regular visitor to my website. If you don't want to receive these updates in the future, please email me. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:07:27 -0400 (EDT) From: TotoArf@aol.com Subject: Cheap Oz books I have placed several lots of Oz books on eBay. You can bid on them if you want to. Hehe. Our eBay identity is princessozma. Check it out. eBay View About Me for princessozma ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:04:34 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Back from Oahu. It wasn't a vacation as some of you assumed. I have friends, a couple, who have both had strokes. They need a lot of help as neither can drive or do a lot of other things. Bad things happen to good people as we get older. I had 65 email messages, two feet of mail and 14 papers when I got home. Now I'm trying to catch up with you all. Oh, no I didn't find Oz but I found some great rainbows. Scott - I was sorry to see you so crushed by a single rejection. I read somewhere that Tom Clancy's first effort was rejected some 50 times before he got it published. If at first...... There, caught up again..... Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:02:48 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-01-98 MORE ON _VISITORS FROM OZ_ I've now finished reading Martin Gardner's new book. I don't want to call it a bad book, but it's not what I consider a good Oz book. To explain myself, I'll list what I found to be questionable elements for a book about Oz. None of them, in my view, give away enough of the plot to spoil any major plot revelations, but I'll go ahead and designate these as ********POSSIBLE SPOILERS***************** 1) Oz has telephones and E-mail. Perhaps not SO out there, but still... 2) Gardner claims that in _The Emerald City of Oz_, Glinda moved Oz to a parallel universe rather than simply making it invisible to outsiders. Further, neither the Magic Belt nor any other implement can transport people or objects from the Great Outside World to Oz or vice versa. 3) The Sawhorse, rather than being simply gruff, acts like a REAL a**hole. 4) The Scarecrow makes a couple of uncharacteristically bitchy and sarcastic comments. 5) The Tin Woodman doesn't "give a tinker's damn" and asserts that he would "never harm any of God's living creatures." Nick Chopper finds religion? 6) Characters frequently refer to events as "such-and-such that Baum wrote about in Such-and-Such of Oz" rather than as historical events they experienced. It sounds VERY weird and awkward. 7) Several characters, particularly Ku-Klip, really get on soapboxes when talking about the U.S. 8) Violence galore! Here are some interesting quotations: "My good friend Iris, the rainbow goddess, lost all her powers completely. They were taken over by that dancing imposter Polychrome. If I ever get my hands on her, I'll bash her pretty face." Dorothy to an assailant in Central Park: "Now," said Dorothy with a grim smile, her blue eyes flashing, "it's *my* turn to cut *your* throat!" Dorothy and the hijacker: "Before [the pilot] had a chance to grab the hijacker, Dorothy punched Abdul in the stomach... Dorothy then raised a knee to bang the man under his chin. Abdul howled with pain." 9) Page 57 features the most unabashedly blatant self-advertisement (for two of Gardner's books) that I've ever seen in a novel. 10) Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman appear on Oprah and Geraldo and meet NYC mayor Rudolph Giulani. 11) There are hit men out to get Dorothy and Co. 12) The book claims that Dorothy was 17 years old when she went to Oz to live and that she has "several boyfriends." It also states that the events in _Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz_ occurred before those in _Ozma of Oz_. Gardner seems to ignore the aging phenomenon that Dorothy experienced during her brief return to America in _The Lost King of Oz_. 13) The Tin Woodman meets a teenage hooker. 14) "I assume," said Dorothy, "there will be plenty of passionate love scenes." ******END POSSIBLE SPOILERS************* I find that the book lacks "magic," and certainly innocence. I think that's the best way to sum it up. But, as you know, this is simply my opinion. Regretfully, Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 98 16:00:13 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DOROTHY: In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's abscence? GARDNER'S BOOK: Thanks for the review Atticus! Compared to what you describe, my "oh-so-heretical" Oz writings are pinnacles of straight-laced orthodoxy... FINAL THOUGHT ON THE "LOST PRINCESS" (AND THE "LOST KING") OF OZ: Jellia: To lose one Ozian royal can be said to be a tragedy; to lose both looks like carelessness! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 6 - 8, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:12:14 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 SCOTT OLSEN: >Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those synopsis in the Reilly >& Lee "white cover" books were written by Jack Snow. > >(What is plural for synopsis anyway?) You're right; he wrote them for _Who's Who in Oz_. (The plural is synopses.) DAVE HARDENBROOK: >In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's >abscence? _Magical Mimics_ is the only one I recall offhand. If we're talking movies, though, she comes kinda close at the end of _Return to Oz_. * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:06:37 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Scott: I'll echo Bear's statement: Don't give up. Somebody out there will publish your work. I paraphrase from the movie _Titanic_ "'Something' Picasso? I doubt he'll ever amount to anything". Atticus: Thanks for the warning for Gardeners book, but I think I'll get the thing anyway, and put it right between Farmer and Laumer, so that when the lightning strikes, it will have only one place to hit :-) Dave: If I remember correctly, Ozma let Dorothy rule for a short time while she went off to some sort of Fairy Conference. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:09:54 -0700 From: Steve Teller Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Cc: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" > > > (What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Synopses. > Scott Olsen In light of Atticus' "warning" concerning Martin Gardner's VISITORS FROM OZ I would like to mention that Martin Gardner was one of the 16 founding members of IWOC (Ruth Berman was another, as was Fred Meyer); he wrote the introductions to many of the Dover editions of Baum's books, and he was a long time participant in the struggle against the librarians and religious fanatics who have tried to remove Baum and Oz from public libraries. His credentials as an Oz expert are very strong. > From: David Hulan > Scott H.: > >Does anyone know who I can contact to get the 1998 IWOC calendar that I > >paid for. I ordered it back in March and never received it. I never did > >buy 1 1998 calendar, so I've been without one, and I want the artwork, > >anyway. > > Once you see it I'm not sure you'll want the artwork; it's mostly pretty > awful. I don't know who you should contact about it, but somebody on the > Digest will probably tell you. > This is not the fault of Chris Dulabone who edited the calendar. He has had an increasingly difficult time getting people to contribute art work for it. BTW: Is it the 1998 calendar that is wanted or the 1999 calendar which is also available. Chris will not be doing the one for 2000. > >How about Wednesday, Oct. 14 to start with _Tin Woodman_? > > Fine with me. It cannot be too soon for me. > ====================================== > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:07:27 -0400 (EDT) > From: TotoArf@aol.com > Subject: Cheap Oz books > > I have placed several lots of Oz books on eBay. You can bid on them if you > want to. Hehe. Our eBay identity is princessozma. Check it out. > eBay View About Me for > princessozma > Melody Grandy also has a number of items on eBay, her identity is "Micromegas." > 1I find that the book lacks "magic," and certainly innocence. I think > that's the best way to sum it up. But, as you know, this is simply my > opinion. > It may be true that Gardner's book lacks innocence, but this is true about most of the "Oz books" that are written for adult audiences. Is it in a class with WAS, BARNSTORMER, DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ or WICKED? > Regretfully, > Atticus > * * * > > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > DOROTHY: > In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's > abscence? > Chiefly in MAGICAL MIMICS. > GARDNER'S BOOK: > Thanks for the review Atticus! Compared to what you describe, my > "oh-so-heretical" Oz writings are pinnacles of straight-laced orthodoxy... Beware of mirrors, they may only reflect what you want to see. > FINAL THOUGHT ON THE "LOST PRINCESS" (AND THE "LOST KING") OF OZ: > > Jellia: To lose one Ozian royal can be said to be a tragedy; to lose > both looks like carelessness! :) Thank you Lady Bracknell! Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:10:24 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz and other fairylands Welcome back, Bear. I hope your trip was pleasant enough even if it wasn't for pleasure. Two passages from TIN WOODMAN have some bearing on our discussion of the birds and the beasts, so I'll bring them up now. First, to turn Polychrome back from canary to fairy, Ozma goes through the steps of dove, speckled hen, rabbit, and fawn. If RINKITINK implies that mammals are further from hominids than birds, this sequence says mammals are closer to fairies than either birds or we are. I don't think that holds up to how Baum portrayed animals, fairies, and humans elsewhere. These transformation sequences don't seem to be reliable indicators. Second, Baum gives us this clue about animal language on page 102: The Owl and the Canary found they could converse together in the bird language, which neither the Giantess nor the Bear nor the Monkey could understand; so at times they twittered away to each other. Several interesting implications here. First, a tin man and a rainbow fairy put in avian bodies instinctually know bird-speak; they don't have to learn it. Second, even cross-species speech can sound like twittering to other animals outside the same order. And if birds don't all speak a single language, they at least share a common jargon--no doubt some form of pigeon. Scott Olson wrote: <> Those synopses [all Greek to us!] indeed first appeared in Snow's WHO'S WHO. After reading the 14 summaries in some "white cover" editions, I was pleased to find more in that volume. I don't remember their plot details, however, as much as Snow's judgments (or what he called fans' judgments) of the books' relative quality or popularity. Tyler Jones wrote about the "Burzo-centric" theory: <> Good points. In cavilling with the "Ozocentric" view, my objection is to assuming that since animals speak in Oz, the ability of animals to speak elsewhere must relate to Oz; since Ozians are immortal (the specific spell Lurline laid on the country), any lengthy lives outside Oz must relate to Oz; and perhaps even that Glinda extended her concealment spell past Oz's borders. As you and Dave Hulan have pointed out, countries like Mo come by magic like or even more fantastic than Oz's independently. And the latter two spells above were laid on Oz in distinction to its neighbors. Fairies, in Baum's broader use of the term, do seem crucial to his presentation of magic, however. His term "fairyland" for any land in which magic occurs implies that fairies are the main source or conduit of such power. But by fairies he doesn't just mean gauze-swathed females dancing in forests like Burzee; he also uses the term for the larger set of magical immortals. There are hints in ROAD and MAGIC KEY that the same forces and phenomena manifest themselves in our own countries, simply in less anthropomorphic forms. Does that mean the magic of Oz' continent and surrounding islands necessarily derives from Burzee? No, especially for the magic that occurs without the willful intervention of a character in the books. But when on that continent a major change seems to occur, or a spell had to be cast, Burzee seems to be the first place we should seek an explanation. That's where the immortals in SANTA CLAUS meet. We know from TIN WOODMAN and MAGICAL MIMICS that Lurline's band is active all over the continent. There are other concentrations of power, most notably on the sea floor and on the opposite side of the globe, but they'd be further down my list of suspects. Dave Hulan wrote: <> ...assuming the added weight of Dorothy and Toto didn't cause an insurmountable difference in the flight of the hot-air balloon. Thank you, Atticus, for your review of Martin Gardner's take on (or take off of) Oz. He does seem to be writing more in the Philip Jose Farmer mode than penning a sequel that fits the series. Unlike some other "dark Oz" writers, however, Gardner also seems to be making an effort to steer his readers toward the real books by naming them. He also seems to be pulling Wonderland into Oz, uniting two of his literary interests. *** SPOILER ALERT *** You listed these among the deviations from the Oz we know: <<3) The Sawhorse, rather than being simply gruff, acts like a REAL a**hole.>> You're right; he should just act like a knothole. <<5) The Tin Woodman doesn't "give a tinker's damn">> Actually, I find this pun rather funny. <> When Baum's Dorothy faced the prospect of throat-cutting, she confined herself to saying, "No, I b'lieve you won't!" J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: (fwd) WTD: Wizard of OZ CARTOON EPISODES (fwd) From: psydavid@aol.com (PsyDavid) Am looking for episodes of Wizard of Oz Cartoon series...-please email me at PsyDavid@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:09:29 -0700 (PDT) From: VoVat Quetzalcoatlus Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 J. L. Bell: > Didn't OZIANA publish a story many years back about the most >obvious >"what if?" in Oz: What if Dorothy, the Wizard, Zeb, et al. had taken >the >*other* tunnel from the Dragonettes' cave? I recall it as an attempt >to >create a more satisfying end to their journey through the underworld. I think this was in Oziana back in the seventies. I've seen the issue before, but I don't own it, and I've only glanced at the story. Tip and Gilo do take the other tunnel in _Disenchanted Princess_, though. Atticus: >8) Violence galore! Here are some interesting quotations: > >"My good friend Iris, the rainbow goddess, lost all her powers >completely. >They were taken over by that dancing imposter Polychrome. If I ever >get my >hands on her, I'll bash her pretty face." Well, this isn't all that much worse than Roquat sending Crinkle to the slicing machine, or Wag wanting to pound Ruggedo's curly toes in. >Dorothy to an assailant in Central Park: "Now," said Dorothy with a >grim >smile, her blue eyes flashing, "it's *my* turn to cut *your* throat!" This, on the other hand, seems to be ridiculously out of character (at least for the Dorothy I've grown to know and love). I mean, you can expect violence from a Nome or a Greek deity, but from Dorothy? >11) There are hit men out to get Dorothy and Co. Well, there were winged monkeys out to get them in _Wizard_. I guess that's not exactly the same thing, but the monkeys were ordered to destroy everyone but the Lion. Overall, I'd say that the book doesn't really sound all that Ozzy. If it can help to get some publicity for the FF, though, that would be a good thing. Dave: >DOROTHY: >In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's >abscence? Well, _Magical Mimics_ comes to mind. Nathan Mulac DeHoff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:53:10 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Bear: I would hardly describe my rejection as making me feel "crushed." I was just making fun of the rejection letter that I got and reading between the lines, coupled with stating the fact that I don't know of another agent, because I don't have access to literary marketplace, and the fact that I don't like the idea of having my serious literature consigned to the fantasy shelf. Scott P.S.: I'm working on a film script that has a Kalidah in it at one point, but I don't think I should put it on the list of incomplete films, do you? It's not in Oz at any point. ============================================================================ ==== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 15:06:43 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Scott O.: Pluaral of synopsis is "synopses." ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:14:21 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz All: The Ozzy Digest for September 98 has finally been archived and is available on my website. http://tyler1.apprentice.com Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 19:39:25 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 <> hmm...true true ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 20:54:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Orange5193@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 In a message dated 98-10-05 20:43:22 EDT, you write: << (What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Scott Olsen >> Synopses, if I'm not mistaken. James Doyle Dorothy: Can't you walk? Scarecrow: No, but I'll take steps to learn. (The Wizard of Oz, Act I) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 07:59:57 -0400 From: "Earl C. Abbe" Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Burton Oz TV Series Sorry if this is old news -- I have not been able to read my e-mail for a couple months. My son kenneth pointed out this in http://www.mania.com/buzz/ Tim Burton Visualizes Oz Tim Burton has agreed to exec-produce a syndicated TV series set in Oz, the legendary world of the stories by L. Frank Baum. The live-action series, slated for fall 1999, will center on some of the lesser-known characters from the 40-odd Oz books and is said to have an extensive special effects budget. Source: Variety I then found this by searching in http://www.variety.com Burton travels to syndie 'Oz' for Col TriStar TV By CYNTHIA LITTLETON, October 7, 1998 Filmmaker Tim Burton has inked a deal with Columbia TriStar TV Distribution to exec produce "Lost in Oz," a big-budget syndie drama series derived from the works of "Wizard of Oz" author L. Frank Baum. The pact with a hyphenate of Burton’s stature is a coup for CTTD and emblematic of a successful push over the past 18 months to broaden the division’s scope under the direction of Russ Krasnoff, exec VP of programming. "We are lucky to have the resources to get involved in projects with the type of talents that normally don’t do television," Krasnoff said of Burton, the director of "Batman," "Beetlejuice," "Edward Scissorhands" and "Ed Wood," among others. Passion projects "We want to be the place where really talented people like Tim Burton bring their passion projects," Krasnoff said. Burton sought to bring the "Lost in Oz" project life as a firstrun syndie property to avoid the potential for creative interference by network execs and to clinch a full season commitment upfront. Burton’s deal with CTTD was brokered by William Morris Agency’s Mike Simpson, Mark Itkin and Paul Nagle. Burton took a stab at primetime in the early 1990s with the animated CBS comedy "Family Dog," co-created by Burton and Steven Spielberg. The show, presented from a dog’s perspective, sat on the shelf for two years before airing in the summer of 1993. Creative details on the "Lost in Oz" series are sketchy as the project is in the early stages of development. The live-action series will revolve around the lesser-known characters and stories featured in the 40-plus "Oz" titles penned by Baum. Burton will exec produce the series with Joel T. Smith, who previously acquired the TV rights to Baum’s books. The series is tentatively targeted for a fall 1999 syndie bow, but the timing will hinge on the production and special effects necessary to do justice to Burton’s vision of Oz and its inhabitants, Krasnoff said. Earl Abbe ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:58:46 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 Jane: Glad to hear you had no serious problems from the weather in KC. Scott O.: >(What is plural for synopsis anyway?) Synopses. Like most if not all nouns whose singular ends in "-is," if they're of Classical (Greek or Latin) derivation, e.g. crisis, axis, parenthesis. I don't know if the Greek plural was actually "-es" or whether it's because most such words came into English from Greek through Latin; maybe someone who's studied Greek (I'm sure there's someone on the Digest - Ruth? John K?) can say. Nathan: >Well, the Nomes might have managed to conquer Oz and enslave its >inhabitants. Then again, if Roquat had been more competent during >_Ozma_, the important Ozites might have gained permanent places in his >ornament collection, and he wouldn't have even gotten the idea to >conquer Oz. After all, he had no intention of conquering Ev, even >though he had the royal family in his power. Probably so. If he hadn't lost his Magic Belt he wouldn't have had any interest in conquering Oz; regaining it was his motivation on pretty much all of his attempts. (EC, _Magic_, _Gnome King_, _Pirates_, _Handy Mandy_) Tyler: >I think the weight of the evidence is against the effect being attributed >to us being able to understand animals. If so, we would have heard Toto's >barks as words from the begining, but he instead waited and chose to speak >in our language at a specific time. Not necessarily; barks may not be "language" any more than humans yelling "Hey!" Just a sound dogs make to get attention, and consequently not translated - like the Cowardly Lion's roar. Jeremy: >It's too bad that, as David says, few fantasy novels are [not] called >fantasy novels when an author starts out. I see his point, but just >don't like it . . . I didn't mean that it was fair; just that Scott shouldn't feel singled out when he's getting the same treatment that just about any unpublished author (and a lot of published ones) would. J.L.: >When I first read and reread MAGIC, I puzzled about why the bees weren't >stuck to the island just as much as Trot and Cap'n Bill were. The answer I >came up with, and in physics class later got the vocabulary for, is that >THAT WORD transforms people around their centers of mass, or possibly >around their centers of intellect (heads). Thus, after becoming much >smaller creatures, Trot and the old sailor are located a coupla feet in the >air. And since bees can fly, they don't plummet to the ground and get stuck >again. I don't think so. If that were the case, then, for instance, when the Wizard was transformed into a fox he'd have dropped a couple of feet onto the ground, and that doesn't seem to have happened. And when the monkeys were transformed into giant soldiers their heads were nearer the point where they had been sitting than their CGs. And when Kiki Aru transformed himself from a crow back into Kiki Aru, he'd have ended up half buried in the ground. I think that the island only works on mammalian items. One wonders what would have happened if either Trot or Cap'n Bill had been wearing cotton socks rather than wool - as indeed would certainly seem more likely in Trot's case. Or more to the specific point, silk, which is an animal product but not mammalian. But perhaps we should postpone this discussion for another month or so, considering that _Magic_ will be the BCF soon. I doubt that Dorothy would have found the key to Tik-Tok's cave herself if Billina hadn't been along; Billina found it while pecking at the sand to find food, and Dorothy would have had no reason to dig in the sand that I can see. But you're right that she's probably resourceful enough to have figured out how to get away from the Wheelers. I don't see why she'd go looking for Evna and Langwidere without Tik-Tok, though, so it's unlikely that she'd have met Ozma; the timing was fairly critical on that. Atticus: Thanks for the review of the Gardner book. I'll undoubtedly still read it, but my expectations will be lowered. I know Gardner knows Oz, so I wonder if the inconsistencies with the FF were in his original MS or if they were changes the publisher insisted on. Bear: Welcome back. I'm sorry to hear the reason you had to go to Oahu, but if one has to go somewhere for such an unfortunate reason Oahu isn't a bad place to have to go. Dave: >In what book(s) does Dorothy temporarily ascend the throne in Ozma's >abscence? _Magical Mimics_. At least, Ozma appoints Dorothy to rule in her stead; I don't recall whether she literally sits on the throne. >Jellia: To lose one Ozian royal can be said to be a tragedy; to lose > both looks like carelessness! :) But strictly speaking neither princess nor king were "lost," despite the titles; both were kidnapped and imprisoned. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 12:34:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: BIG OZ NEWS JUDY GARLAND, MOVE OVER Filmmaker Tim Burton has signed a deal to executive produce "Lost in Oz," a syndicated TV series derived from the works of "Wizard of Oz" author L. Frank Baum. Variety reports that creative details are sketchy, as the big-budget project is in the early stages of development. The live-action drama will revolve around the lesser-known characters and stories featured in the 40-plus "Oz" titles penned by Baum. Columbia TriStar says the series is tentatively targeted for a fall 1999 bow, but the timing will hinge on the extent of production and special effects. BOY DID THEY GET THEIR INFO WRONG BAUM WROTE 40 PLUS ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 98 12:39:40 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MIMICS: Thanks to those who named _Magical Mimics_ as the book in which Dorothy assumes the throne... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 9 - 10, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:24:14 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-08-98 I got the 1999 calendar at the convention so I wouldn't get stuck again. I planned to buy the 1998 calendar at the convention last year, but didn't. I didn't think I'd be sleighted it, though. Gardner's book sounds reminiscent of _Oz Squad_, which went on hiatus after ten issues and never reappeared. Care to know the last line? Dorothy says to Ozma, "I'm pregnant." Scott =================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:01:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-05-98 The 5th: As for whether Oz would be Oz without Burzee, one of you mentioned that there is non-Burzian magic. I hold to my opinion that Burzee was the center and therefore the source of magic in Baum's world. Visitors from Oz: Oz moved to an alternate world? Hmmm. I don't like how that (doesn't) jive with Bzum's explanation as I interpreted it. (Personally I thought it was on one to begin with, but that's not the point, no sense in starting up that debate again). My thoughts on the Digest of the Eighth are soon to come... Jeremy Steadman http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:52:06 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Dorothy, Conqueror of Oz Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> At times. She slaps the Cowardly Lion in WIZARD and the Tottenhots in PATCHWORK GIRL. In both cases, she's defending her friends. (And, of course, one mustn't try to steal her shoes.) Dave Hulan, I think it will be a good idea to examine the transformations in MAGIC when that book is up for discussion. I can't tell from the Tim Burton/LOST IN OZ announcements how much he'll be involved in the TV series creatively, or if he's simply a marquee name on the producing line. In the former case, the series will no doubt be visually interesting, but I hope someone helps Burton with plots. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:20:27 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest David Hulan: I think the point in saying that a bee or a bird would not be trapped on the Magic Flower Island isn't that it would be immune to growing roots, but rather that it would fly away before it did any serious root-growing (it takes a minute or so for the rooting to start). A bee or a bird foolish enough to land there and settle down would get as rooted as a mammal. On the question of how a magical transformation places someone when the transformation involves a considerable change in height, though -- that's hard to decide. J.L. Bell's suggestion that the centers of intellect are put in the same spot is attractive, although, as you say, the absence of any mention of a drop to the ground in such a change as Wizard-to-fox suggests that there isn't any such drop. Maybe the transformation is foot-level-to- foot-level (with appropriate equivalencies that kick in for footless beings). You wondered if cotton socks would protect against the island's magic, and if we should therefore assume Trot and Cap'n Bill were wearing wool socks. I'd guess that a cotton-knit fabric (especially hand-knit?) would be loose enough to let the magic seep in and the roots grow out. The is/es formation -- having snuck a peek at the appropriate grammar books, I can say that you are correct in thinking this type of plural formation represents Greek coming through Latin into English. All of the -is nouns are from the group called the third declension. One of the things that makes third-declension nouns confusing is that you can't tell from the nominative (subject-case) singular what the full stem of the word is, and the other cases are formed by adding the third-declension endings to the full stem. The full stem may be present (as in Latin "collis," hill, with the stem "coll," or Greek kris/krisis), or it may be abridged or disguised, as in the stems matric, indic, or gent, with nominative singulars matrix, index, and gens. Most of the third-declension nouns form the nominative plural by adding -es to the stem, so that in English we get the Latinate plurals matrices, indices, gentes. As it happens, in Greek the third-declension nouns that end in -is form their nominative plural with -eis, but the Latin -is words have just the -es. So those Greek -is words come into English with simple -es plurals, as in crisis/crises or synopsis/synopses. J.L. Bell: "Assuming the added weight of Dorothy and Toto didn't cause an insurmountable difference in the flight of the hot-air balloon" -- well, the Wizard was planning on having them along in the first place, if they hadn't jumped out at the last minute, so very likely the balloon would have gotten through even if they'd stayed. "Some form of pigeon" -- oogh! Earl Abbe and Mark Anthony Donajkowski: The projected Tim Burton Oz show sounds more promising than some of the other projects that have been announced of late. Whether it'll actually get done, of course, is another question. An unusual example of an Oz reference -- a Canadian friend sent me a copy of "Trailblazers: The Wizard of Oz New Media," an article by Charlene Rooke, from "New Trail" (vol. 53 #2), the U of Alberta alumni magazine, about one Janet Mayfield who named her multimedia company "Oz New Media." Their various products don't seem to have any direct Oz references, but Mayfield, who comes from Hutchinson, Kansas, suggested the name because "I figured a kid from Kansas could do great things." I received a fund-raising appeal letter from the Judy Garland Children's Museum in Garland's childhood home in Grand Rapids. This is probably a good cause, so if anyone wants to send them a donation, their address is PO Box 724, Grand Rapids MN 55744. They'll be having their 24th Annual Judy Garland Festival June 24-26, 1999, and expect to have some Munchkins from the film at the festival (the museum itself is open year round). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: YET MORE OZ NEWS A CHANGE OF DATE FOR THE MOVIE RELEASE Cc: Dave Hardenbrook WARNER BROS. has announced the re-release of THE WIZARD OF OZ theatrically to 1,800 screens on November 6th, in celebration of the film's 60th Anniversary. This will mark the first time OZ has been released widely to theaters in over 25 years, and it's now been digitally restored and re-mastered in DOLBY DIGITAL stereo sound. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:49:12 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-08-98 GARDNER'S NEW BOOK, CONTINUED STEVE TELLER: >In light of Atticus' "warning" concerning Martin Gardner's VISITORS FROM OZ I >would like to mention that Martin Gardner was one of the 16 founding >members of >IWOC (Ruth Berman was another, as was Fred Meyer); he wrote the >introductions to >many of the Dover editions of Baum's books, and he was a long time >participant in >the struggle against the librarians and religious fanatics who have tried to >remove Baum and Oz from public libraries. His credentials as an Oz expert are >very strong. Which makes it all the more disappointing that VISITORS is so unOzzy. I was perfectly aware of Gardner's credentials. I've probably read more Oz books than many people have, but I could still write a book in which, say, Dorothy participates in an orgy, if I wanted to make a buck. The scene in which the Tin Woodman encounters a teenager hooker, for instance, is *thoroughly* gratuitous. Worse, this is a book I could very easily see a parent buying for a child. If you don't remember, the dust jacket blurb ends with, "A jewel of a story, _Visitors from Oz_ will bedazzle children and adults alike for decades to come." >It may be true that Gardner's book lacks innocence, but this is true about >most of >the "Oz books" that are written for adult audiences. Is it in a class with >WAS, >BARNSTORMER, DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ or WICKED? I had expected better from Gardner than the books written for adults, particularly in light of his qualifications that you pointed out. I've only read BARNSTORMER, out of the four you named, and I wouldn't say VISITORS has nearly the levels of sex or violence that that book does, but there's no way VISITORS will make it into the HACC. Beyond those issues, I don't think it has a very strong plot. I should know, I used to write such things. and JOHN BELL: He does refer quite a bit to the series, but one might have hoped that he had done a better job of following it in his own writing. and DAVID HULAN: >Thanks for the review of the Gardner book. I'll undoubtedly still read it, >but my expectations will be lowered. I know Gardner knows Oz, so I wonder >if the inconsistencies with the FF were in his original MS or if they were >changes the publisher insisted on. One wonders. For the record, I'm not trying to do a hatchet job on this book. I just think that Gardner should know better. I grow weary of this topic and shall say no more. I don't like to dwell on such things. Hope everyone's having a nice weekend. It's beautiful here in Austin. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 21:49:20 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls >Burton, the director of "Batman," "Beetlejuice," "Edward Scissorhands" and "Ed Wood," among others. This is really depressing. Does anyone know the "others?" Well hope springs eternal. Hopefully, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 23:09:18 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz John Bell: Thanks for your comments. If you mean that the ultimate source of magic and power in the land of imagincation comes from the super-fairies like Ak and the other immortals in Baum's _Life and Adventures of Santa Claus_, then I'd be inclined to think that was a strong possibility. Granted, Lurline and her band seem to be active all over, but I am still not convinced that her band generates magic or the ability to practice it. There is ample evidence that there was magic in Oz before the enchantment. David Hulan: True, but in _Tin Woodman_, Nick and Polychrome were able to speak in Bird Language without anybody understanding them. In most fantasy literature, animals can understand human-language better than the other way around. Dave: Now that I think about it, I mentioned the circumstances around Dorothy assuming the throne, but I forgot to mention the book itself. No matter. Others did. :-) Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 20:29:21 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Parallels with Lewis Carroll's works. I have recently become involved in a discussion group about "Alice in Wonderland" and other of Carroll's works (it may be accessed by going to http://www.onelist.com/ and searching for lewiscarroll). As a result, I am doing a lot of reading in that area and just came across the following in "The Annotated Alice" with notes by Martin Gardner. On page 109 in the scene with the Queen of Hearts there is a marginal note which reads: 2. "I pictured to myself the Queen of Hearts," Carroll wrote in his article "Alice on the Stage" (cited in previous notes), "as a sort of embodiment of ungovernable passion--a blind and aimless Fury." Her constant orders for beheadings are shocking to those modern critics of children's literature who feel that juvenile fiction should be free of all violence and especially violence with Freudian undertones. Even the Oz books of L. Frank Baum, so singularly free of the horrors to be found in Grimm and Anderson, contain many scenes of decapitation. As far as I know, there have been no empirical studies of how children react to such scenes and what harm if any is done to their psyche. My guess is that the normal child finds it all very amusing and is not damaged in the least, but that books like "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" and "The Wizard of Oz" should not be allowed to circulate among adults who are undergoing analysis. I am reasonably sure that the foregoing (the last sentence, anyhow) was written with a tongue firmly positioned in cheek but am trying to recall incidents of decapitation in the Oz books with little success. There are probable some but they don't come readily to mind. I would be happy to see some discussion of this on the Digest. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 98 20:26:17 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "OFF WITH THEIR [WHATEVER]!": Bob Spark wrote: >I am reasonably sure that the foregoing (the last sentence, anyhow) >was written with a tongue firmly positioned in cheek but am trying to >recall incidents of decapitation in the Oz books with little success. >There are probable some but they don't come readily to mind. >I would be happy to see some discussion of this on the Digest. Well, there's Nick Chopper and the enchanted ax, then there's the "patching" in _Sky Island_, and I *suppose* you could count Langwidere's heads...The thing is, Nonestica is a bizarre continent where decapitation seldom results in death... GARDNER'S BOOK: I've begun _Visitors From Oz_, and I'm enjoying it so far...I'd like to comment on it as I go along... P. xiii -- The very first words of the Preface: "It is sad that so many children and adults today know about Oz only because they have seen the MGM movie that starred Judy Garland." Amen! (But we're working on it!) P. 3 -- "...a computer-animated version of _The Emerald City of Oz_ [or any other post-_Wizard_ Oz book].": Please! Don't make me salivate! :) PP. 8-10 -- Glinda and other Ozites owning phones and computers: Well, is that really any more unbelievable than animated phonographs, Scalawagon cars and Ozoplanes? As the Wogglebug remarked to me the other day, "Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis." :) P. 8 -- "The Ozmapolitans": Is this a reference to the Ozzy Digest?? And *is* Glinda online, perhaps even a lurker here??? After finding out that all four members of ABBA are apparently online (including it seems the as-reclusive-as-Reera Agnetha Faltskog), nothing further can surprise me! :) Glinda, if you're here, please come out of the lurkers' closet! :) P. 17 - 21 -- The Klein Bottle: To an extent this seems like "Oz meets Heinlein and Rudy Rucker", but still I like the idea of incorporating it in the story... P. 25 -- "[Frankly my dear Scarecrow] I don't give a tinker's d***...": I agree with Atticus about the Tin Woodman saying the D-word -- not just about there being a four-letter word in an Oz book, but the idea of kind-hearted Nick using profanity. It's as improbable as a four-letter word ever passing the lips of "cute, lovable, furry old Grover"! P. 29 -- The Stephen Jay Gould incident: Is this a true story? Many of those Cambrian grotesques, especially _Opabinia_, _Hallucigenia_, and _Anomalocaris_, *do* look like they "must have come 'straight from Oz'"!! P. 33 -- The Combination lock, "5-13-5-18-1-12-4": I worked out the hidden meaing even faster than I figured out what that strange page with the strange typing is in the middle of _Red Reera...Eggs of Oz_. P. 39 -- The Polychrome "attack": It seemed less objectionable when I realized it was uttered by the goddess Juno, who is well-known for her vicious jealousy of all sweet and beautiful girls. (Anyone here see _Clash of the Titans_?) P. 77-8 -- A Date With Judit: Actually I'm not this far in the text yet, but my eyes fell on it while looking at the color plates... I can't believe someone beat me to it in getting a reference to "The Three Adepts at Chess" (the Polgar sisters) into an Oz book! Gardner seems to agree with me that Judit will be World Champion by the time the Oz Centennial rolls around! :) Don't agree with his assertion that demure and gentle Judit would react to losing to a computer by throwing chessmen across the room, though... Aurah: Well, it depends on the computer...If I lost to Tik-Tok or HAL or _The Hitchhiker's Guide_'s Deep Thought or Marvin I'd take it in stride...But if I lost to _Red Dwarf_'s computer-senile Holly, *that* might get me into a nasty mood... In short, I'm overall enjoying this book so far, and it is in fact revitalizing my own inspiration to write Oz books! ( I hope the _That Ozzy Feeling_-bashers are seething to hear me say that! :) :) ) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 11 - 13, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] WARNING! THIS ISSUE OF THE DIGEST CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS FOR _THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ_! IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT AND DON'T WANT TO HAVE MAJOR PARTS OF THE STORY GIVEN AWAY TO YOU, THEN PROCEED WITH *CAUTION*! -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:56:28 -0400 From: lisa mastroberte Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 > PP. 8-10 -- Glinda and other Ozites owning phones and computers: Well, is > that really any more unbelievable than animated phonographs, Scalawagon cars > and Ozoplanes? As the Wogglebug remarked to me the other day, > "Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis." :) > In one of the books, doesn't Ozma own a a thing that looks like a phone but has no cord? Maybe Ozma owns a cell phone....:) ~Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:39:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 In a message dated 98-10-10 07:16:22 EDT, you write: << Gardner's book sounds reminiscent of _Oz Squad_, which went on hiatus after ten issues and never reappeared. Care to know the last line? Dorothy says to Ozma, "I'm pregnant." Scott >> Scott, if that was the last line of the Gardner book, please give a spoiler alert next time. Even if it's just _Oz Squad_, most readers would prefer to get to the last line all by themselves. Thanks. Ruth: The is/es formation -- having snuck a peek at the appropriate grammar books, I can say that you are correct in thinking this type of plural formation represents Greek coming through Latin into English. Sneaked, durnit, sneaked! Here I am, working my synapses to the axon, and one of the most literate people I know says "snuck"! O.K., I say it too, in informal, spoken English. Odd, but it does disturb me to see it in informal written English. I'm being overly picky, so feel free to ignore me! ;o) <> Atty, we're going, right? Gordon and Mike, anywhere you guys can think of where the four of us might meet? Maybe Plantersville and catch some RenFest before we relax with Oz? Alice and Oz: I've always thought that RPT was too heavily influenced by Alice when she wrote _...Cowardly Lion...._. It seems like Carrollian writing on a bad day. It will be interesting to discover what the rest of y'all think when we finally reach that book. It's (obviously) one of my least favorites. Dave: No fair! You're doing stuff that should have a spoiler notice, too! I want to read the darned thing on my own! I stopped reading it and shall save it until I get 'hold of a copy of my own. (But whatever shall I say to Martin if the book's as bad as it appears to be?) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:40:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Kiex@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 No roots to speak of: I guess Baum's implication that birds and bees wouldn't get trapped on Magic Flower Island implies that the birds and the bees aren't so different after all... Magic and Burzee: And then there's the question of where Burzee got its magic, too... Until nedt time, Jeremy Steadman http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:38:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: new oz news group rec.arts.books.wizard-of-oz ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:04:37 -0400 From: Krystal Baird Subject: Wizard of Oz props/Bizarre My daughter's school is putting on the Wizard of Oz in December. We are going to have a little carnival/bizarre before and during intermission. We want to do a picture with your favorite character booth. I'm wondering if you know where we can find OZ picture holders for the Polaroid pictures. We're in St. Petersburg, Florida. If you have any information, please reply to Joy at starrcom@gte.net. Thanks! ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:49:18 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Shaggy Men outside Oz About the Wizard's balloon flight home, Ruth Berman wrote: <> We certainly hope so! The Wizard's more expert at ballooning in the books than the MGM movie makes him out to be. Even so, it seems unlikely that a hot-air balloon would have followed the same course with three passengers as with one, and thus have brought those passengers through the same adventures. Thanks for noting my "pigeon" remark. After my comment a few weeks ago about Dorothy putting the Sawhorse "out to spud" passed without reaction, I feared I was losing my touch. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I don't doubt Oz was as much a fairyland like, say, Noland and Pingaree. Indeed, YEW and SANTA CLAUS hint that almost all the world was overtly magical before "civilization" swept in like the Widder Douglas. I guess the clearest way to express myself is to say that in Baum's Oz books there's one and only one example of magic from country A profoundly changing country B: Lurline's spell on Oz allowing its inhabitants to never grow old or die. I can't think of an example of Ozma or Glinda casting a spell on a land outside Oz that affects more than a few people temporarily. Therefore, if other countries on Oz's continent seem to become more like Oz, there's little reason to see Oz as the source of that change. Lurline should be our top suspect, though the list may be long. Two other qualities also seem to set even the most prosaic parts of Oz off from other fairylands in the region: 1) the Deadly Desert. We know desert surrounded Oz before Lurline arrived--but was it magical then? [Is it really magical now, in fact, or does it simply have really scary signs on its borders?] 2) Animals' ability to speak. But some other countries--an inconsistent batch, but it always includes Mo--also have this quality. There's no indication Lurline brought this. As to whether the fairies of Burzee, or even the uberfairies we glimpse in SANTA CLAUS, are the actual *sources* of all magic, I don't hazard a guess. I just note that Burzee, like Mo and the Great Jinjin's kingdom, is a profoundly magical place, in ways more magical than Oz. Bob Spark wrote: <> The clearest parallel to Carroll's Queen of Hearts is Princess Langwidere: both threaten little-girl heroines with beheading. Other folks who lose their heads in Baum's Oz books include Nick Chopper, Jack Pumpkinhead, Button-Bright and Shaggy Man (who receive other heads in return), the Scoodlers, and Captain Fyter. In addition, the Scarecrow often loses almost everything *but* his head. I think there are two issues lurking beneath the horror of "decapitation." The first is deliberate and arbitrary nastiness by adults, like Hansel and Gretel's witch and the Queen of Hearts. The second is little kids' worry about body integrity; Fred Rogers has been singing "Everything Grows Together" for decades because of that fear. Baum's images of people being sliced open like potatoes (Gwig), stumbling around without heads (King of Mo), or being glued back together (Chopfyt) confront that fear in a silly, bloodless way. One parlor game for Oz conventions is to count the men in Baum's stories who've had at least one leg chopped off: Nick Chopper, Jack Pumpkinhead, John Dough, Bill and Joe Weedles, the general on the Isle of Phreex, an old soldier in QUEER VISITORS, Captain Fyter,... Calling Dr. Freud! Finally, folks interested in the Shaggy Man might be intrigued by what historians are now saying about the figure of the hobo in turn-of-the-century culture. Shaggy's most obvious literary predecessor is James Whitcomb Riley's "Raggedy Man," as Dan Mannix and others have pointed out. But such tramps seem to have had a particular political meaning in Baum's time and place as well. The following paragraphs come from "Where's the Romance of the Open Road?" by Nina Bernstein, NEW YORK TIMES, 10 Oct 1998, p. A15. Kusmer is a historian at Temple, author of DOWN AND OUT, ON THE ROAD: TRAMPS AND VAGRANTS IN AMERICAN SOCIETY, 1865-1940 (Oxford University Press, 1999). DePastino is a "young social and cultural historian"--i.e., that modern form of hobo, the untenured academic. In the mid-1890s, in the depths of the Gilded Age depression, the "Industrial Armies of the Unemployed" began recruiting homeless men from Western skid row neighborhoods for a cross-country "petition in boots" to demand a program of public works from lawmakers in Washington. Dozens of copycat marches were organized from Chicago, San Francisco, and the Pacific Northwest during this period of widening inequality and brutal strike-breaking. Hobo armies hijacked freight trains, often with the help of railroad workers sympathetic to their cause. By 1908, the Industrial Workers of the World, known as the Wobblies, had cast hobos as a muscular advance guard of the American class struggle. . . . Mr. Kusmer traces the rise of a more sympathetic image of homelessness in the early 20th century to the growing acceptance of rootless underemployment as a feature of the capitalist industrial economy rather than as a sign of bad character or social decay. Most jobs were temporary or seasonal, and with European immigrants flooding the labor market, even full-time year-round work was usually too low-paid to cushion families against illness, industrial accidents and the business cycles of the pre-welfare era. By the same token, the Ford Motor Company's factories, which paid the best industrial wages, experienced 100 percent turnover on the assembly line in 1905 as workers quit to drift on to something else. In this context, Mr. DePastino argues, the hobo came to represent a kind of manly embrace of insecurity and a last-ditch rebellion against the discipline of the factory floor. Shaggy's refusal to participate in the monetary system may reflect this romanticized view of the hobo, even if Baum didn't subscribe to all the Wobbly agenda. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:49:50 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Spark >incidents of decapitation in the Oz books with little success. There are probable some but they don't come readily to mind. I would be happy to see some discussion of this on the Digest. Well, I wouldn't. Isn't it interesting there is such an urge to dwell on the most negative parts of things. Briefly, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:53:18 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digests, 10-08 & 10-98 I spent a long weekend admiring the fall colors up in Door County, WI, so I have two Digests to comment on this time... 10/8: Steve: I didn't intend to be critical of Chris Dulabone; he can only put into the calendar what's made available to him. But the 1999 Calendar art isn't anything I'd want to exhibit on my wall. J.L.: > And if birds don't all speak a single >language, they at least share a common jargon--no doubt some form of >pigeon. *Groan* :-) >...assuming the added weight of Dorothy and Toto didn't cause an >insurmountable difference in the flight of the hot-air balloon. Well, yes. And the balloon must have been filled with magic hot air if it was able to cross Oz, the desert, and who knows how much other territory without a hot-air generator on board like those that hot-air balloons have today. But possibly, if as many of us think Oz is in a parallel world, the balloon only needed to ascend to a moderate height and pass through a spacewarp and it would suddenly be over the USA rather than Oz. Scott H.: >I don't like the idea of having my serious literature >consigned to the fantasy shelf. But there's plenty of serious literature on the fantasy shelf; if you don't want _your_ serious literature on the fantasy shelf, I suggest you eliminate fantasy from it. Earl: That's excellent news that Burton is planning a TV series based on post-Wizard Oz books. Now if it will only be well enough done that it's watched by a reasonable number of people... 10/10: Ruth: Cap'n Bill specifically states that his and Trot's socks are wool, and opines that this is why their feet could take root on the island. Bob: Decapitations in Oz? Besides the ones Dave mentioned there are the forty wolves the Tin Woodman decapitated in _Wizard_, the Scoodlers who decapitated themselves in _Road_, Blinkie knocking the Scarecrow's head off in _Scarecrow_, and the Tin Soldier's decapitation of himself with his enchanted sword, told of in _Tin Woodman_. Nikobob probably decapitated Choggenmugger in _Rinkitink_, but the text only says that he chopped it into small pieces. I think that's about it for Baum. King Fumbo's head blows off in _Grampa_, and of course Kuma Party's head, as well as most other parts of his body, are detachable in _Gnome King_. There are probably other instances in Thompson, but those come to mind quickly. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:51:59 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: TIN WOODMAN OF OZ themes As I've written, TIN WOODMAN was the second Oz book I read, after WIZARD. I was mighty confused since Ozma--whom I'd never heard of--plays a crucial role in this story. But I was enthralled with the terrible Mrs. Yoop and the dangerous, desolate landscapes the books' heroes traverse. Rereading TIN WOODMAN for the first time in several years, I think it holds up well. The ending is as frustrating as PATCHWORK GIRL's, but it's also realistic and well prepared for. The action is episodic, but thematically it hangs together well. Indeed, TIN WOODMAN displays two of the stronger themes in Baum's novels. The more clearly spelled-out moral is, "Don't assume you can barge in anywhere and be welcome." All through their journey the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow go where they're not invited and suffer bad consequences. The Loons tie them up; the Scarecrow acknowledges, "We really had no right to disturb their peace and comfort" [64], but he keeps right on doing that at others' homes. Breaking into Mrs. Yoop's castle [69] causes our heroes to be imprisoned and enchanted. Lolling around Jinjur's farmhouse makes her try to sweep them out [148]. By Ku-Klip's cottage Woot has learned his lesson: "I think I will go outside until Ku-Klip comes. It does not seem quite proper for us to take possession of his house while he is absent" [208]. But Nick Chopper not only stays inside, he goes through the man's cabinets--and finds himself most disturbingly face to face with his face. Of all the houses outside the Winkie Country that the Tin Woodman and his companions visit, the Swynes' is the only one they don't enter uninvited [252]; it's also the place where they have the most uniformly positive experience. Given that pattern, the party's cool reception at Nimmie Ammee's house should be no surprise. Indeed, in contrast to some of his more slipshod plots, Baum has forecast the end of this quest early and often. As far back as page 38, the Tin Woodman was convinced "that poor Munchkin girl is anxiously awaiting my coming." Yet we already know her ideal husband is one who doesn't need cooking, mending, or laundering; who won't tire of dancing or work, letting his wife "amuse myself in my own way" [29]--hardly a girl to sit pining for her man. Even as Nick anticipates "her joy at our reunion," he has to acknowledge her sharp tongue [40]. The Tin Woodman's confidence in his own attractiveness isn't slowed by Ozma's lukewarm response to his plan [187]. Nor by learning that Nimmie Ammee took up with Captain Fyter after him [197]. Nor by hearing from the blue rabbit that the woman doesn't "weep and wail from morning till night," and retains her temper [265-8]. He's still flabbergasted when Nimmie Ammee isn't pleased to see him! Despite living on a secluded mountain and behind a thick wall, Nimmie Ammee has to spell out that she prefers her solitude. The Scarecrow wisely murmurs, "That sounds to me like a hint" [279]. Even Nick and Captain Fyter finally learn their lesson: "the two tin men...felt they were not welcome there" [280-1]. They all journey to the Emerald City, where our beloved Tin Woodman and Scarecrow are always welcome. But that breaking-and-entering theme isn't relevant to every episode in TIN WOODMAN--how does it apply to Tommy Kwikstep, or the Hip-po-gy-raf, or life as a green monkey? I see a deeper theme running through almost every part of this book, with the possible exception of the Swynes' visit. And that is the sad reality of our bodies' fragility. Near the end of the LOST PRINCESS, we found the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow discussing the superiority of their non-meat bodies. They take up that favorite topic as soon as Woot arrives [16]. Indeed, each of the travelers is concerned with another's body. "The straw man was awkward in his movements and decidedly wobbly on his feet, so the boy wondered if the Scarecrow would be able to travel with them all the way to the forests of the Munchkin Country" [36]. "Straw and tin never tire at all. Which proves," retorts the Scarecrow, "that we are somewhat superior to people made in the common way" [43]. And Baum, son of an axle-grease manufacturer, makes sure to show us Nick Chopper oiling his joints [25]. The ensuing adventures highlight the fragility of all physical forms. Twice we hear the story of a man being chopped to pieces [once while Woot is trying to eat!]. The Loons pop. Tommy Kwikstep gets nineteen extra legs, and corns on top of that. Dragons have to sleep for a century. The Invisible Country hides travelers' bodies from sight, leading them into accidents. Even at the very end of their journey, our heroes must shrink their forms to the size of "a toy soldier" if they wish to approach Nimmie Ammee's door [269]. The book's most frightening moment is, appropriately, when the Tin Woodman, the Scarecrow, Woot, and Polychrome have their rightful bodies taken away from them. Their new forms have all the weaknesses of before--clinking tin, floppy straw--and more. Nick Chopper "found the sunshine very trying to his big [owl] eyes" [111]. The Scarecrow complains, "I'm getting tired of walking on all fours" [132]. And Woot is natural food for jaguars and dragons. When in turn Mrs. Yoop loses her body, she loses a vital aspect of herself; "in that form she will be unable to perform any magical arts whatsoever" [183]. By the latter half of the book, our heroes' bodies suffer indignity after indignity. The same straw "fragrance" the Scarecrow is so proud of [44] makes him vulnerable to the Hip-po-gy-raf [236]. Stuffed with hay, the Scarecrow is figuratively turned into a feeble old man, with swollen limbs and a hunch back, feeling heavy and "very clumsy" [249-50]. The two tin men, confident in their hardy exoskeletons, bump into each other and find themselves limping along like wounded veterans [239]. In using the term "old man," I refer to literary stereotypes; I don't claim that all older men end up crippled. But it's sadly undeniable that with time our adult bodies grow less resilient and demand more effort to stay in shape. [You college kids, enjoy the next five to six years. As a classmate of mine said at age 30, "I wish someone had told me about nose hair!"] Many folks have written about aging as looking down and thinking that the body you're in really isn't yours anymore; either somewhere back you lost the one you still think of yourself as having, or the one you have just won't do everything you tell it to. That out-of-body experience appears over and over in TIN WOODMAN. As muscular young men, Nick Chopper and Captain Fyter traded their meat bodies for tin ones and thought themselves the better for the change. (Even though wet weather freezes their joints worse than any arthritis.) Then they meet their younger bodies nose to nose, and realize they don't own those bodies anymore; the parts could be Ku-Klip's, they could be Chopfyt's, they could be Nimmie Ammee's to order around, but they're definitely not under the control of Nick Chopper and Captain Fyter. Furthermore, the tin men discover to their embarrassment that the girl they left behind has gone and married their youthful selves! Baum wrote TIN WOODMAN when he was sick, entering his final illness and largely confined to a twin bed in the room he shared with Maud. Only 62 years old, he may well have wondered what happened to the young body that strutted the stages of the Northeast. How lovely it must have been to imagine a land where bodies survive even after being chopped with axes and swords! Where a fresh load of straw is enough to make one feel like a new man! Where a fairy from the rainbow can repair sore feet and dented limbs, a fairy from the Emerald City can give you back the body you once enjoyed, and a fairy from Burzee can make sure "those who were young and strong did not change as the years passed them by" [156]! "The man who looks for security, even in the mind, is like a man who would chop off his limbs in order to have artificial ones which will give him no pain or trouble." --Henry Miller J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:05:08 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-10-98 J.L; Burton usually doesn't write his films, at least with credit. He did co-write _The Nightmare Before Christmas_ with credit however. (for example, _Mars Attacks!_ is credited to Jonathan Gems, who admits Burton co-wrote it without credit in the dedication of the novelization, and Caroline Thompson wrote _Edward Scissorhands_ based on a picture Burton told her about that he drew, but that she did not see). Bear: the others include _Vincent_, _Pee-wee's Big Adventure_, _Mars Attacks!_, _Hansel and Gretel_, _Batman Returns_, _Frankenweeine_, _Aladdin and His Wonderful Lamp_, and _Alfred Hitchcock Presents_ episodes (1985 version). His upcoming films are a remake of _X -The Man with the X-Ray Eyes_, _Sleepy Hollow_, and _Superman Reborn_. I have not seen his AHP episode (which includes "The Jar," though I don't know if this is from Bradbury's story. The Bradbury show of the story was quite creepy, though), _Hansel and Gretel_ (which was shown once on the Disney Channel and then stuffed in a vault), _Vincent_, and _Batman Returns_. Burton's version of Oz is something I quite look forward to. Bob: Gardner is referring to _Wizard_, which has forty-three decapitations and forty stranglings. Dave: I think Oz would look pretty lame done on a computer, IMHO. Remember how fake _Twister_ and _Godzilla_ looked? Not to mention full-computer stuff like _Reboot_ Ugh! Scott =================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:50:59 -0400 (EDT) From: TotoArf@aol.com Subject: Fwd: More Oz I'll just pass this along in the hope that someone who can help this guy will see it. -------------------------- From: RWishbone@aol.com Subject: More Oz Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:08:42 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Hi again. I also have two life size thick cardboard cutouts of the Oz characters.. They were used by Bloomingdales years ago for an Oz related promotion. One has Dorothy and the Lion. The other has the Tin Man, Scarecrow and the Wizard. The characters are the originals. I never put it up for auction because I think it is great at parties and I have no idea how much they are worth. If you would be so kind as to let me know what an Oz expert thinks these are worth I would be grateful Thanks Rich ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:23:26 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest/Tin Woodman Some thoughts about "Tin Woodman." David Hulan has commented that he doesn't much care for it (although finding it of interest for the information about Lurline's enchantment of Oz, the Tin Woodman's past, and such). I can see the objection -- the quest to get rid of the Yookoohoo-imposed shapes is more urgent to the characters, and so when that aim is achieved, it feels as if the story should be over, and it feels anticlimactic to get back to the dutiful starting aim of locating Nimmee Aimee. But the two aims are linked thematically, as both turn out to be explorations of what it means to be oneself. The conversations about whether they're still themselves when transformed into different shapes, and whether the Tin Woodman is or isn't the same person as the pieces of his former self or his twin tin are some of Baum's funniest. The discrepancies between Baum's various versions of Lurline's enchantment have been pretty widely discussed. In the past, there's also been some discussion of the discrepancies between the versions here and in "Dorothy and the Wizard" of how the Wizard got the Nine Piglets. An early "Bugle" round-up of opinions on how to explain away discrepancies suggested that perhaps Professor and Mrs. Swyne originally lived on the Isle of Teenty-weent themselves and assumed that their sailor had been the Wizard when they heard the kids were with the Wizard. (I wonder if the sailor could have been Cap'n Bill or maybe Trot's father.) Another discrepancy is in the description of Nimmee Aimee's employer as the Wicked Witch of the East -- in "Wizard," Nick had said the employer was an old woman who went to the WWE for help. Perhaps Nick had assumed that his girlfriend couldn't really be working for the ruler of the territory and that the employer and the axe-enchanter were separate people, but later learned they were the same? Or perhaps the Witch had been maintaining a Secret Identity (for purposes of spying on ordinary Muchkin opinions?), and the connection between the two had been learned later? (In the pictures, it's interesting that Neill gives us the only drawing of the WWE, and also, in one of the color plates, the only drawing of the pre-tinned Nick.) Robert Pattrick wrote a pleasant short story sequel, "The Tin Woodman and the Tin Soldier," with the two of them undertaking to tame a field of wild flowers (available in #3 of the "Best of the Bugle" collections). Theodore Sturgeon wrote a sciencefiction story, "The Green Monkey," not with reference to Woot, but to an unpleasant experiment in which the experimenters found that a monkey with its fur dyed green would be perceived as a threatening alien and killed by the rest of the band of monkeys. I don't know when this experiment was supposed to have been made, or if Baum would have been likely to know about it. Bob Spark & Dave Hardenbrook: Dave is obviously correct in suggesting that "TW" must be one of the main examples Martin Gardner had in mind in talking about decapitation in the Oz books. Another example would be Fumbo's lost head in "Grampa," and another example from the Borderlands books would be the switching about of the King's head and the Woodcutter's and the substitute heads made of candy, bread, and wood in "Magical Monarch of Mo." And, too, Jack Pumpkinhead quite often loses his head, and the Scarecrow in "TW" loses his stuffing and is left with only the head and the empty suit of clothes -- another version of the nature-of-identity question that runs through the book and shows up in a lot of Baum's writing. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 98 15:56:07 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "RING, RING; WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME A CALL!": Lisa Mastroberte wrote: >In one of the books, doesn't Ozma own a a thing that looks like a phone but >has no cord? Maybe Ozma owns a cell phone....:) Yes! You're quite right! In _Tik-Tok_ IIRC. GARDNER'S BOOK: Robin wrote: >Dave: No fair! You're doing stuff that should have a spoiler notice, too! >I want to read the darned thing on my own! What can I say but, "Oops!" Reminder to everyone including myself: Please surround "spoiler space" around all book discussions to avoid spoiling the book for people who haven't read it...(See my _Tin Woodman of Oz_ comments below) But since what I've said about Gardner's book seems to have only served to prejudice people against it even *more*, I think I'll keep quiet about it at least until I've finished it... NEWSGROUP: Mark wrote: >new oz news group >rec.arts.books.wizard-of-oz Um, did I miss something?? (When was the vote, etc.?) WAS IT SOMETHING I SAID?: J.L. Bell wrote: >Thanks for noting my "pigeon" remark. After my comment a few weeks ago >about Dorothy putting the Sawhorse "out to spud" passed without reaction, I >feared I was losing my touch. I think we've all posted things on the Internet feeling sure that *someone* would respond, and then feel there was something wrong with us when they didn't...At least I certainly have. COMUPOZ: Scott H. wrote: >Dave: I think Oz would look pretty lame done on a computer, IMHO. >Remember how fake _Twister_ and _Godzilla_ looked? Not to mention >full-computer stuff like _Reboot_ Ugh! This is one of those things we can argue about 'til the Kalidahs come home, but IMHO a computer could really help in rendering Ozzy landscapes (see my web page), and some of the "grotesques" like the Scarecrow, Tin Man, etc. I'd favor human beings to portray the meat people however. ****** SPOILERS FOR _THE TIN WOODMAN OF OZ_ AHEAD!!! ****** Some random thoughts: -- Nick says he has "a kind heart, not a loving heart", but how can he be kind without being loving?? -- The thing most dissatisfying about this book IMHO is that Nick puts himself through such misery to find a girl he no longer loves...I mean, what's the hippikaloric point?? I agree with Ruth that after the Yookoohoo spell is broken, it's downhill and anticlimatic from there... -- The *best* thing about the book for me is Ozma acting assertively to resolve the Yookoohoo problem. For once she's behaving maturely and intellegently as a ruler should. Of course, a certain Oz fan who will remain nameless (he's not on the Digest) thinks that this "new Ozma" is the direct result of Baum's illness, and that the "little girl after all" (both physically and mentally) is the *real* Ozma. I however stand by my theory that *this* is the real Ozma and that the immature, ineffectual waif of other books is part of the ongoing Campaign to Protect Ozma from the Jealous Wrath of Rival Fairy Queens, which Baum briefly forgot about during the writing of _Tin W._, so that he accidentally showed Ozma as she actually is. -- Oh, will I ever get over that pic of Ozma facing the "To My Readers" page...Oo Lah Lah! -- There's a story about a young man who visits an old woman and informs her: "Your daughter's cousin was my grandfather on my mother's side, therefore, you are my great aunt." The elderly lady thinks a moment and then tells the young fellow, "It's too deep for *me*!" The old lady's sentiment is exactly how I feel whenever I try to contemplate the "How can Nick Chopper be both the Tin Man and his severed head at the same time?" paradox! ****** END SPOILERS ****** LATEST OZZY NEWS: Yesterday was Rose Campbell's (from Lousia May Alcott's _Eight Cousins_ and _Rose in Bloom_) birthday, and the festivities in the Emerald City were very successful. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 14 - 18, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:20:38 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz The tale of the little Red Sprint: I'm back from court, and the results were inconclusive. Last week on FOX, you'll remember that the problem was excessive smoke from the tailpipe. According to the DMV, the Judge could decide to give the car a waiver that would allow the car to be driven for up to a year despite the smoke. Well, the Judge just told me that he doesn't have that kind of authority. I paid the fine and came back here. But now, what to do with the car? We could just unload it to the Boy Scouts and have done with it, or we could just use it as a backup car and we'll probably not get pulled over anymore, because at the time, the back of the Sprint was black from oil and the license/tags were obscured, and I suspect that drew the officer's attention to the smoke. In answer to co-worker's question "why am I fighting so hard for this car" the answer is: I owe it. That car took me through seven years and 85,000 miles with hardly any trouble at all, except for two batteries, a starter and a muffler. I won't spend any more money on it, but I'll go to the ends of the earth and fight for it's life until it's dead, dead, dead. The family will huddle and discuss options on November 7. Stay tuned for the next installment. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:35:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 > ====================================================================== > Date: Tue, 13 Oct 98 15:56:07 (PDT) > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Ozzy Things > > NEWSGROUP: > Mark wrote: > >new oz news group > >rec.arts.books.wizard-of-oz > > Um, did I miss something?? (When was the vote, etc.?) there was bno vote its a new news groupthat my server asked me if i wanted to join so far there have been no posts in it ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:45:13 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 Re: Purported decapitations. > The clearest parallel to Carroll's Queen of Hearts is > Princess Langwidere: both threaten little-girl heroines > with beheading. Allow me to make the distinction that--in a fairyland--an unbodied head doesn't necessarily signify a disembodied head. The origins of Princess Langwidere's 30 heads are never discussed. She does not threaten Dorothy with beheading, she merely applies strong-arm tactics to attempt to convince her to trade heads. > Bob: Gardner is referring to _Wizard_, which has > forty-three decapitations and forty stranglings. I'll accept your figures, but I'd like some explanation of them. > Decapitations in Oz? Besides the ones Dave mentioned there > are the forty wolves the Tin Woodman decapitated in > _Wizard_, the Scoodlers who decapitated themselves in > _Road_, Blinkie knocking the Scarecrow's head off in > _Scarecrow_, and the Tin Soldier's decapitation of himself > with his enchanted sword, told of in _Tin Woodman_. Nikobob > probably decapitated Choggenmugger in _Rinkitink_, but the > text only says that he chopped it into small pieces. I > think that's about it for Baum. King Fumbo's head blows off > in _Grampa_, and of course Kuma Party's head, as well as > most other parts of his body, are detachable in _Gnome > King_. There are probably other instances in Thompson, but > those come to mind quickly. Wow!! I am overwhelmed. And finally, > I would be happy to see some discussion of this on the > Digest. > Well, I wouldn't. Isn't it interesting there is such an > urge to dwell on the most negative parts of things. I seem to recall a saying about differences of opinion and horse races. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:19:09 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Robin Olderman: But when I'm talking about plural formation and nominative cases and third declension nouns, I NEED "snuck" for balance. Come to think of it, though, I'd probably use "snuck" anyhow -- it sounds much more furtive than "sneaked." The dictionary I have to hand (Webster's Collegiate) approves of both snuck and sneaked for the past tense. (I'll try to remember to look up what the usage has been historically, and maybe add a ps note later, in spite of the risk of being Extremely Boring.) We've talked before about the feeling that Carroll must have been a strong influence on RPT. Hard to pin down, though. I don't recall getting the feeling specifically from "Cowardly Lion" so much. The clearest examples of Carrollian influences, I think, are in the looking- glass-like language of the Backwoodsmen and the fall down a hole with comments about getting so used to it as to think nothing of it in "Lost King." And maybe the adventures underground in Down Town and the Town's fearsome queen in "Hungry Tiger." But it will be an interesting point to watch for, as you say, when "Cowardly Lion" comes up for Digest discussion. J.L. Bell: I saw that "Romance of the Open Road" article and was reminded of Shaggy, too. If someone looks up the "Down and Out, on the Road" book, it would be interesting to know if it has any direct references to Baum on the topic. Interesting comments on uninvitedness as a theme in "Tin Woodman." Krystal Baird: I don't know of Ozzy picture holders as such, but I should think you could manufacture them by buying Oz stickers (if those are still generally available in places like drugstores and grocerystores) and sticking them on to plain holders. Plain green (Emerald City), blue (Munchkin), yellow (Winkie), purple (Gilliken), and red (Quadline) holders would also be appropriate. If you don't find the professional stickers (Jane, were they made by Hallmark?), you could make your own by photocopying some Denslow or Neill drawings and then positioning them onto a master copy so that you could photocopy the master onto a sheet of labels. David Hulan: Oh, right, I'd forgotten the explanation that the socks are actually wool. (Does sound kind of itchy, doesn't it.) But I don't think I'd care to go on that island wearing cotton socks and rely on that for protection. Liked your comment about the non-exclusiveness of the categories "serious literature" and "fantasy." Dave Hardenbrook: How a heart can be kind without being loving -- "loving" in this context would seem to mean "sexually passionate." Kindness is a kind of love, but not necessarily a sexual one. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:18:50 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 Robin: I haven't found a copy of _Visitors from Oz_ yet. _Oz Squad is so hard to find that I figured no one would mind the last setnence beign revealed. It only lasted ten issues before going on hiatues, and even the guy with the website doesn't have #4, featuring the death of Scraps, who is portrayed as a black woman. After this, Scarecrow tries to immolate himself at a gas station, but is rescued. Scott ==================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! ------------------------------------------------------------- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:38:50 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Lost Princess of Oz -- a six-year-old's observation Just returning for a second to the BFCF (book of foermer current focus), my six-year-old, Baruch (remember him?) had an interesting thought/observation. Even though the companions in LP and the little pink bear onl referred to it as a "hole in the ground", Button Bright was found in a *pit*. Hence, if the company had asked the pink bear after pulling out Button Bright, "is Ozma still in the pit?" it would have truthfully answered YES, and caused even more confusion! So this caused me to wonder if perhaps LFB had in fact *had* this little bit of wordplay in his first draft? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, all holidayed-out for now.... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:45:00 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Lost Princess of Oz -- a six-year-old's observation Just returning for a second to the BFCF (book of foermer current focus), my six-year-old, Baruch (remember him?) had an interesting thought/observation. Even though the companions in LP and the little pink bear onl referred to it as a "hole in the ground", Button Bright was found in a *pit*. Hence, if the company had asked the pink bear after pulling out Button Bright, "is Ozma still in the pit?" it would have truthfully answered YES, and caused even more confusion! So this caused me to wonder if perhaps LFB had in fact *had* this little bit of wordplay in his first draft? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, all holidayed-out for now.... ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:26:22 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: TIN WOODMAN OF OZ and love Scott Hutchins wrote: <> It's the *stories* Burton's comes up with or chooses, not the scripts he commissions, that I see as falling down in plot. As far back as "Frankenweenie," he's given us stunning visuals in the service of less than compelling narratives. Come to think of it, that's what John R. Neill gave us, too. Ruth Berman wrote about TIN WOODMAN as: <> Very interesting. In the "first half" of the book--with Mrs. Yoop and her transformations--the Tin Woodman struggles to hold onto his rightful self. In the "second half" with Captain Fyter, Ku-Klip's extra head, and Chopfyt, he has to deal with more selves than he can comfortably handle. Ruth Berman also wrote: <> I must see this! Alas, I have only the "white cover" paperback I bought for $1.50 in about 1973. Peter Glassman, where are you? Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> I note that when Ozma disenchants Nick and the Scarecrow, she's working under nearly the best of conditions: none of her friends is in peril (a plight we know troubles her mind), she's had a chance to study and gather useful materials [162], and she has no time limit. Also, I find it significant that it's not Ozma who comes up with a way to rescue Woot from the form of a green monkey, but the Scarecrow and Polychrome. All in all, I think this vision of Ozma is compatible with the responsibility-ridden adolescent fairy we see in TIK-TOK and GLINDA. Dave Hulan and others have made a good case that Ozma does mature from the pre-Barrier of Invisibility stories to this point, and never before was as assertive in using her magical powers. But I don't see a need to split her in two. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> I recall recently seeing in a BUGLE (which I can't put my hands on now) that this picture and the portrait of "Woot in court dress" opposite Chapter 1 were recycled versions of art Neill had drawn for a periodical. The originals showed modern American teens, and illustrated an article on missing children! Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> I think the distinction between "kind" and "loving" is a premise we have to accept for TIN WOODMAN. In Chapter 16 of WIZARD, the Wizard assures the Tin Woodman that the heart he's prepared is "very...kind," but Nick never asked about love. My nearest dictionary defines "kind" as "of gentle or benevolent nature, friendly...considerate"; while "to love" means to "feel affection for; delight in, admire, be glad of the existence of." The latter contains more hint of passion and closeness. Traditional romantic that you are, Dave, it's no surprise that you'd want Nick to feel both. But is Nick really incapable of loving? At the end of this book, his bid for a loveless show marriage fortunately thwarted, he returns home with his "chosen comrade, the Scarecrow" [288], for the two have "found themselves contented in merely being together" [14]. "Perhaps our Emperor *is* queer," admitted the servant; "but he is a kind master and as honest and true as good tin can make him; so we, who gladly serve him, are apt to forget that he is not like other people." [15] J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:01:07 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 Everyone, Further questions in my search for truth, justice and the American Way of Life: > As to whether the fairies of Burzee, or even the > uberfairies we glimpse in SANTA CLAUS, are the actual > *sources* of all magic, I don't hazard a guess. I just note > that Burzee, like Mo and the Great Jinjin's kingdom, is a > profoundly magical place, in ways more magical than Oz. And: > Lurline I have no knowledge of either Lurline or Burzee. How may I gain enlightenment? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:48:46 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 J.L.: >Even so, it seems unlikely that a >hot-air balloon would have followed the same course with three passengers >as with one, and thus have brought those passengers through the same >adventures. Probably not so very different, though; after all, Dorothy seems to be a 5-year-old child, and Toto is a very small dog, so we're probably talking less than 50 pounds difference. (Average weight for a 5-year-old girl is 38 lb. today; it was probably less in 1899.) That's not much compared to the several hundred pounds the balloon itself would probably weigh. The Wiz might have dropped some ballast a little sooner to compensate. > I guess the clearest way to express myself is to say that in Baum's Oz >books there's one and only one example of magic from country A profoundly >changing country B: Lurline's spell on Oz allowing its inhabitants to never >grow old or die. In the Oz books, but there's the magic cloak in _Zixi_ which had a profound (though not as profound as the Oz spell) effect on Noland, and to a lesser degree on Ix. Also from Burzee, of course. > As to whether the fairies of Burzee, or even the uberfairies we glimpse >in SANTA CLAUS, are the actual *sources* of all magic, I don't hazard a >guess. There's the Supreme Master, who created the Cloak of Immortality that was bestowed on Santa Claus; he never appears on stage in any book, but maybe he's the true source of all magic? (Of course, there's a bit of inconsistency here; the Cloak of Immortality is said to be a unique item in SANTA CLAUS, but if Lurline can convey immortality on all the inhabitants of Oz she should have been able to do the same thing for Santa.) >I just note that Burzee, like Mo and the Great Jinjin's kingdom, is >a profoundly magical place, in ways more magical than Oz. The members of Lurline's band, who dwell in Burzee, certainly have great magical powers, but otherwise I don't recall anything all that special about Burzee as a magical place - compared with Oz or Mo, anyhow. Examples? Interesting stuff about hobos. One section of Edgar Rice Burroughs' early "kitchen sink" novel, _The Mucker_, has Billy Byrne and a friend on the road as hobos. It was a bit later than Baum (copyright 1921, although I think the magazine version came out earlier), but in the same general cultural period. You like _Tin Woodman_ better than I do. I regard it as one of the three weakest Baum Oz books, along with _Road_ and _DotWiz_, even though it was one of the earlier ones I read and one I've owned ever since. ********************SPOILERS AHEAD******************* I simply don't think that the initial motivation for the quest is believable, nor does it make sense to me for the trio to avoid the Emerald City; the reason given is so lame that it's obvious that the reason is that Baum wants to get them into trouble, and traveling the familiar route through the EC and out the YBR isn't going to do that. This sets the whole adventure off on the wrong foot; it is, in fact, the only Baum Oz book that's so weakly motivated. And then the intrepid adventurers act like total dips throughout the whole tale; the Scarecrow is supposed to be clever (though this isn't the only book where he puts that into question), but just about every decision he makes in the course of the story is something the average 10-year-old would know better than to do. It says something about the rest of the book when Ozma is clearly the strongest character in it, and Jinjur the second strongest, when the former is on stage for about two chapters and the latter for three. Woot seems to be along for the sole purpose of giving the story a juvenile character; he does little if anything of a positive nature, but just goes along for the hike. Polychrome does come across well in this book; she's much more interesting than she was in _Road_, and rather more interesting than in _Tik-Tok_. In the former she didn't do much of anything but travel along with the others, and in the latter her main action was waking Quox. I think I may have asked this question before, but if I got an answer I don't recall it. I know someone on the Digest - Atticus, I think - has seen the MS of the book fairly recently. It seems clear to me that Baum originally intended to name the female Loon, who appears in the book as Til, Sal; I'm just curious as to whether he self-censored it before he submitted the MS or whether it was a change R&L wanted. *************END SPOILERS****************************** >"The man who looks for security, even in the mind, is like a man who would >chop off his limbs in order to have artificial ones which will give him no >pain or trouble." > --Henry Miller That in itself isn't something that happens often, if ever (though these days hip and knee replacement surgery may be considered to approximate it), but there are a lot of people in the world - if not so many in the US as there once were - who elect to have their teeth pulled and replaced with false ones in order to avoid toothaches in the future (and to have a more symmetric smile, since orthodontia is mostly a US phenomenon as well). Ruth: You and John Bell certainly hit upon some interesting themes that run through _Tin Woodman_. Maybe it's because my major was science/engineering that the existence of such themes makes very little difference in my enjoyment of a book. I enjoy reading other people writing about them, but I don't look for them and knowing they're there doesn't make me consider the book any better. > Theodore Sturgeon wrote a sciencefiction story, "The Green >Monkey," not with reference to Woot, but to an unpleasant experiment >in which the experimenters found that a monkey with its fur dyed >green would be perceived as a threatening alien and killed by the rest >of the band of monkeys. I don't know when this experiment was >supposed to have been made, or if Baum would have been likely to >know about it. The title of the story was "Affair with a Green Monkey," in F&SF in the late Fifties IIRC. The story about the green monkey was the source of the title, and the experiment was described as background, but the real story was about an alien who resembled a male human but was quite effeminate in his mannerisms, and a human woman who conceived a great affection for him. It has one of the greatest last lines of any story I can remember. Dave: >Um, did I miss something?? (When was the vote, etc.?) I remember David Levitan announcing it in the Digest a while back - maybe mid-August? Must have been a Digest you didn't read carefully yourself. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:39:05 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: For Ozzy Digest- Crazy Changes to the English Language (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:19:57 -0500 From: Jim Mason Reply-To: English Department Community Subject: - Crazy Changes to the English Language (fwd) here is one to have some fun with Changes to the English Language - submitted by Ken Smiths =============================== The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan that would be known as "Euro- English". In the first year, 's' will replace the soft 'c'. Sertainly,this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard 'c' will be dropped in favor of the 'k'. This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome 'ph' will be replased with the 'f'. This will make words like 'fotograf' 20% shorter! In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expected to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double leters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent 'e' in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w' wiz 'v'. During ze fifz year ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou' and similar changes vud of kurs be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After ze fifz yer ve vil hav a rali sensibl ritn styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evriun vil find it ezi tu undrstand ech ozer. Zen Z Drem Vil Finali Kum Tru!! ******************************************************** ******************************************************** ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:28:41 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz copyrights Congress has voted to extend US copyright terms by 20 years, the NEW YORK TIMES reports today. President Clinton is expected to sign this bill, the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act. For Oz fans, this means that books currently under copyright protection will remain so for 20 additional years. Those books include more than half of Ruth Plumly Thompson's titles and all of John R. Neill's, as well as the books of living authors. I expect Books of Wonder's program of republishing Thompson's early Oz novels with color plates will cease, unless the firm can budget a royalty to the authors' heirs. Reprints of Baum's books won't be affected. Characters as they originate in books under copyright protection will remain the intellectual property of the authors or their estates for an additional 20 years. Authors wishing to publish new stories about those characters would have to apply to the authors or their heirs for permission. (The Int'l Wizard of Oz Club has long had permission for reasonable use of those characters in OZIANA.) Books written since 1978 will be under copyright protection until 70 years after the author dies. (Copyrights held by corporations or anonymous authors have a different term, which has also been extended by 20 years.) Last week my Congressman, a co-sponsor of the bill, wrote me that he'd inserted a provision urging better compensation for work-for-hire authors during the additional 20 years. The bill's fast passage through Congress implied this provision remained part of the final bill, but it also sounds fairly toothless. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:51:53 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: [Fwd: Please Vote For Oz!] not from list --Mike T. Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by defer.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Oct 1998 03:20:43 -0000 Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@206.165.6.131) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 15 Oct 1998 03:20:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <36255AE5.99B02AF1@137.com> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:16:05 -0700 Reply-To: clester@137.com From: Charlie Lester Subject: Please Vote For Oz! Comments: To: Kitty Twitty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, my little doggie Oz is being voted for "best pet of the week" at the website "Dogs Galore." Would you please go there and vote for him? URL: http://hometown.aol.com/dogsgalore Thanks!! Don't worry; it's okay for contestants to try to "pad" the vote like this -- the webmaster encourages people to do it in fact! It's a fun website, and you can also see lots of other cute dogs, too, and even register ~your~ own dog to enter the contest! ~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ Charlie Lester and OZ ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:33:11 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 X-Accept-Language: en,ru Oz Newsgroup: Nope, there isn't one. The last vote ended July 15. I'll try again in January (minimum 6 months between proposals). I'm thinking of making a newsgroup in the alt hierarchy. Will keep you posted. David Levitan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:55:01 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Oz links http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/7834/Magicbook.txt This is a story featuring Rainbow Brite, Hercules, Xena, Dr. Who, and the Oz characters. http://www.nwoca.ohio.gov/~mntplr_evs/HS/music/MUSICAL/Wiz.htm Montpelier High School's performance of _The Wiz_ (with pictures). Scott ================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! ----------------------------------------------------------- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 Decapitations in Oz: Yes, yes, there are many examples of these--but it's not worth losing your head about them! Newsgroup: I'm, er, having trouble finding it...typing the address into my browser url finder leads to a not-found response--is there a webpage tied to this newsgoup from which I can get there? Until next time, Jeremy Steadman kivel99@planetall.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:40:58 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Oz question: Back in the 70's during the reign of Sid and Marty Kroft, there were shows like H.R. Pufnstuf, Land of the Lost and Sigmund and the Sea Monsters. A friend of mine kind of remembers another show made by somebody called the Hudson Brothers. According to Chris Dulabone, this show was called The Razzle Dazzle Show. Can anybody confirm this? The Ultimate question: The Oz series does not really deal with first causes and such, but the most likely situation is that the immortals, such as Ak etc. are the ultiamte source, or that Ozzy Universe is inherently magical. The immortals may have headquarted themselves in Burzee, and thus it has the most magical focus. John Bell: I guess we're more in agreement that we realize, in that we're not completely sure of the source of magic. As for the desert, indications are that the desert was not magically deadly before the enchantment. Conversation in _Wizard_ imply that the desert can be walked upon, although it is too fierce an environment to cross. In _Land_, Mombi walks on the desert for quite a while and is unharmed. The only case I can think of where someone walks on the desert in the non-FF _Gardeners Boy__. A child walks on snowshoes, seemingly unaffected by the poisonous fumes that were apparant in _Magic_. A grain of sand dissolves her big toe. Ruth: March Laumer's explanation of the discrepancy regarding the origin of the Nine Tiny Piglets is interesting, although a little involved. ********** TIN WOODMAN SPOILERS ABOUT DAVE'S COMMENTS ********** Dave: I think it's easily possible to be kind without also being loving. A person may do nice things for people because s/he believes it is the right thing to do, but may not have deep feelings toward the other person. Also, there is a difference between being nice and being thoughtful. The whole Nick / Fyter / Chopfyt thing is a puzzler. Who is Chopfyt? He obviously has the head of Captain Fyter, so are they him or is he they? Oh, never mind. :-) ********** END OF SPOILERS ********** Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:51:17 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Non-Oz warning, but some people this side of the Deadly Desert aren't very Ozzy :-( Dear All, I received the following e-mail. Beware!!! >>THE SCAM: We received a call from an individual identifying >>himself as an AT&T service technician who was conducting a >>test on our telephone lines. >>He stated that to complete the test we should touch >>nine(9), zero(0), the pound sign(#) and then hang up. >>Luckily, I was suspicious and hung up. >> >>Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by >>pushing 90# you give the requesting individual full access to your >>telephone >>line, which allows them to place long distance telephone calls >>billed to your home phone number. >> >>We were further informed that this scam has been >>originating from many of the local jails/prisons. I have also verified >>this >>information with UCB Telecom. Please beware. >> >>I further called GTE Security this morning and verified that >>this is definitely possible. DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. >>The GTE Security department requested that I share this >>information with EVERYONE I KNOW! >> >>Could you please pass this on. If you have mailing lists >>and/or newsletters from organizations you are connected >>with, I encourage you to please pass on this information. >> >> >> > > > ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 At the Movies: Revisiting Oz 6 Decades Later Dave, I found this in the *New York Times* Movie section of AOL and thought it might be of interest to some of the Digesters. --Robin By BERNARD WEINRAUB HOLLYWOOD -- The song "Over the Rainbow" was almost cut. Judy Garland was not the studio's choice, with some executives preferring Shirley Temple or Deanna Durbin. One director after another -- including King Vidor and George Cukor -- was replaced. The film itself was highly expensive, for 1939, costing $2.7 million. Whatever its original problems, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer's "Wizard of Oz," directed by Victor Fleming, remains perhaps the most inspired film musical ever. It is certainly the most enduring, with a record 23 airings on network television. Now, on the eve of the movie's 60th anniversary, Warner Brothers, which owns the rights, is re-releasing a restored version around the nation at nearly 1,900 theaters. The re-release, set for Nov. 6, will have state-of-the-art technical improvements, including a remastered soundtrack and a digitally restored picture. "We've re-released any number of films -- 'Giant,' 'Blade Runner,' 'Wild Bunch,' 'Streetcar Named Desire' -- with original footage," said Barry Reardon, the distribution chief at Warner Brothers. "I knew the 60th anniversary of 'The Wizard of Oz' was coming up, and I thought: 'Oh great, let's bring it back; there's a whole generation of people under 25 who've never seen it in a theater.' And a theater is the place to see the film." On a recent Saturday, the studio held a test screening of the restored film in a theater in the San Fernando Valley, and Reardon called it a success. "Mothers were actually coming up to thank us for re-releasing the film," he said. "How often does that happen?" He added, "It is the quintessential American family film." Confidence in the lasting popularity of the film, which was adapted from the classic children's novel by L. Frank Baum, is underscored by the way Warner Brothers stores are stocking up before the holidays on "Wizard of Oz" toys, trinkets, coffee mugs and T-shirts. Recently "Wizard of Oz" items sold unexpectedly strongly on the QVC shopping network. "They were shocked," Reardon said. "They never dreamed they'd sell this much merchandise." Phil Feiner, president of the optical effects division at Pacific Title/Mirage, said the original black-and-white portions of the film, depicting Dorothy's world in Kansas, had been destroyed in a fire in the mid-1970s. Working with a copy of the print, technicians spent more than nine months removing dirt and scratches and correcting the images on computers, frame by frame. "Our aim was to restore the negative to its original condition as if it just got out of the camera," Feiner said. "We did that." The film stars a 16-year-old Judy Garland (above) as well as Frank Morgan, Ray Bolger, Bert Lahr, Jack Haley, Billie Burke, Margaret Hamilton, Charley Grapewin and "The Munchkins." It was nominated for six Academy Awards and won two -- for its original score by Herbert Stothart and for best song, "Over the Rainbow," by Harold Arlen and E.Y. Harburg. Though the song was cut out of several previews, Arthur Freed, the associate producer, who later became MGM's foremost producer of musicals, threatened to quit the project unless it remained in the movie. The competition among films in 1939 was extraordinary. The year is regarded as Hollywood's most glorious, and remains a sad reminder of the current caliber of films: now it often takes an effort to come up with five best picture choices for the Academy Awards. Among the other movies released that year were "Gone With the Wind," "Gunga Din," "Wuthering Heights," "Dark Victory," " Smith Goes to Washington," "Of Mice and Men," "The Women," "Stagecoach," "Love Affair," "The Hunchback of Notre Dame," "Young Lincoln," "Beau Geste" and "Babes in Arms," which also starred Judy Garland. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:05:49 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-13-98 ROBIN: >< THE WIZARD OF OZ theatrically to 1,800 screens > on November 6th, in celebration of the film's > 60th Anniversary.>> > >Atty, we're going, right? Gordon and Mike, anywhere you guys can think >of where the four of us might meet? Maybe Plantersville and catch some >RenFest before we relax with Oz? Of *course* we are. We need to catch up. Oh, I've never been to RenFest... By the by, _Citizen Kane_ has been rereleased this week, at least locally. I shall try to see it. A. * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:10:20 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Sequel To The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz Anyone, A while back there was much comment about a forthcoming sequel to "The Seven Blue Mountains of Oz" by Melody Grandy (which I thoroughly enjoyed). Since then, Melody has stopped corresponding with the Digest and I miss her comments. I also am curious about the projected sequel. Any information as to its possible publication? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:40:19 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus I was trying to find an online text to link to my Dryad page, but the following url is all I could find, and it's dead. Does anyone know of another one? Visit my Kalidah site: kalidah.html Scott ================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! -------------------------------------------------------------- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Oct 98 22:19:25 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THE "BLACK HOLE" OF CALCUTTA: It appears that Barbara Belgrave is our latest Digest member to be a victim of that Hippikaloric "Real Time Black Hole List"...Could one of my volunteers please E-mail her and explain the situation to her and then add her to their list of people they forward the Digests to? I'm hoping this will be resolved soon, for I'm planning to change ISPs... BURZEE AND LURLINE: Bob S. wrote: >I have no knowledge of either Lurline or Burzee. How may I gain >enlightenment? Lurline is the fairy Queen who first enchanted Oz and declared that Ozma would be its queen when the enchantment was complete...Ozma has of course been on the throne about a century, while it was probably several centuries ago that Lurline first called COzEnchantmentApp::InitInstance() (so to speak). :) Burzee is the forest (south of Oz, west of Mo, and east of the territory Dorothy et. al cover in _Road to Oz_) where many fairy beings, including Lurline's fairy band reside. Other inhabitants include Zurline's wood nymphs, possibly Lulea (from _Queen Zixi_), Ak the Master Woodsman, and various ryls and knooks (from _L. & A. of Santa Claus_). As to my own views on the ultimate origin of magic, see Section 4.7 of the Ozzy Digest FAQ. (Note: There is some dispute over whether Zurline and Lurline are the same. IMHO they are as different as Patty and Peppermint Patty.) 70'S NOSTALGIA: Tyler wrote: >According to Chris Dulabone, this show was called The Razzle Dazzle Show. >Can anybody confirm this? That name rings a faint bell, but I don't remember. So many of those shows are dim in my memory...I don't even remember what "Marlo and the Magic Movie Machine" was about, even though I certainly remember the computer (not exactly Deep Thought, but not Holly either) and the Gabe Kaplan-look-alike who hosted. "Space Academy" is another I wish I recalled better because it's the only other Sci-Fi series along with _Red Dwarf_ that I've really enjoyed. The main things I remeber are Jonathan Harris as the Commander, Pamelyn Ferdin (on whom I had a terrible crush), and the impish boy Loki (sort of a cross between Tip and a male Jellia Jamb)... SOUTH WINKIES: Now the moment you've all been waiting for, my report on the South Winkie Convention... As always I had a good time. The theme was the MGM movie so there were some people I'd never seen before, presumably MGM-only fans. Stephen Sisters showed his "Oz Art" (I was expecting pics of Ozma, etc. because I can never quite get my mind into "MGM gear" in regards to Oz, but they were all pics of Judy Garland and scenes from the film.) Then we heard from Aljean Harmetz, author of _The Making of the Wizard of Oz_, of which there is a new edition. I must say, everything I've heard about Margaret Hamilton suggests that she was a very sweet person. And I gather that the studio treated her like she was *really* a wicked witch. No only the incident when she was so seriously burned, but she also had a bare dressing room like a skid row flat, as opposed to Billie Burke's, which the real Glinda would have probably rejected as "too lavish". Also, I didn't know that initally they had filmed the Munchkinland scene without any problems, but Victor Fleming *insisted* on a second take "for insurance", and *that* was when Hamilton got injured...And then when she came back they said to her, "Now we want you to do this scene on the broomstick where there's smoke coming out as you're flying...We *promise* you it is perfectly safe and risk-free, and besides you'll be in a fire-proof suit." Hamilton not only refused, but she tried (unsuccesfully) to persuade her stunt double not to do it either. Some movie directors are real fanatics...Did you know Gregory Peck nearly drowned when John Huston *insisted* that he be submurged while tied to a fake whale in _Moby Dick_? Ah--Jellia just nudged me to remind me that I'm digressing...Right, back to the Convention... :) We then had lunch, during which we had a surprise visit from Baum's great- granddaugter and Ozma Baum's daughter (Help! I can't remeber her name!). She discussed her new book, _The Wisdom of Oz_, a study of the issues of life that are examined in _The Wizard of Oz_. Then came the auction and time for socializing and buying from vendors. Eric Shanower was there for the first time (at least in the time I've been going) and I got a signed edition of his _Secret Island of Oz_, and a mug he designed with a "galaxy" of Oz characters, including the Good Witch of the North! ( But no Jellia ...Well we can't have everything... :) ) Then we had dinner and long discussions, and agreed that we would meet again on November 6 to see the re-released _Wizard of Oz_. (Anyone care to join us? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I *hate* nostalgia...I didn't like it *then* and don't like it *now*!" -- Lou Grant ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 19 - 21, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:53:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz event in KC Author John Fricke and Munchkin Margaret Pelligrini will be in Kansas City Sunday, Nov. 1 for a premier of the the MGM film at the Midland Theater. It will be at 1:00 p.m. The Oz Entertainment Co. (the theme park people), Warner Bros. and AMC theaters are cosponsoring the event. I'll plan a brunch at my home in advance; if John and Margaret can come I'll be thrilled, but realize their sponsors may have other plans for their time. I'll make sure Christine Baum, Robert Kory and anyone else that would be fun is invited. There are a couple Baum great-grandsons through Richard Holter and Rosemary Baum in town. I'll track them down, too, those we've never met so no telling if they'll be interested. Don't know what other posters/lurkers might be close enough to the area to join us, but if you are, plan to come early and start your day here. Let me know if you could make it because I hate being the kind of hostess that runs out of food! Jane Albright 816/753-2674 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:54:46 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-18-98 > Burzee is the forest (south of Oz, west of Mo, and east of > the territory Dorothy et. al cover in _Road to Oz_) where > many fairy beings, including Lurline's fairy band reside. and: > Lurline is the fairy Queen who first enchanted Oz and > declared that Ozma would be its queen I appreciate the information but would like to know its source so I can read it for myself. Thanks, Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:01:08 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Bob: Lurline is the leader of the Fairy Band from which Ozma is descended. According to legend, she came upon Oz (which was already magical) and fell in love with it's beauty. Estimates are that this happened around 1200 AD. She cast an enchantment over it to turn it into a real Fairy Land. She planned for a member of her band to rule it and make it as close to a perfect paradise as was possible. Burzee is the traditional home of Lurline and her fairies. You can get more info by reading _Queen Zixi of Ix_, _The Forgotten Forest of Oz_ and _The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus. There seems to be some confusion between the fairies Lurline, Zurline and Lulea. Are they one and the same? Are they rulers of different fairy bands? etc. There is some doubt as to whether Burzee has always been the home of the fairies. Baum seems to impy that it is, although he never says so. In the non-FF _Lurline and the White Ravens of Oz_, Lurline is banished there. The main debate has been on the ultimate source of magic in the magical world of which Oz is a part. Many people believe that all magic originates with the fairies and that people can cast magic only through their good graces. All magic is merely a derivative of fairy magic and either comes from Lurline directly, or possibly her enchantment of Oz (and maybe other countries as well). As for myself, I cannot believe this. There is ample evidence that fairy magic is not the best, most powerful or only magic out there. Ozma herself lectures on this in _Glinda_. Several instances of magic appear to have nothing to do with fairy magic. The main reason that people believe the Lurline and her fairies are the ultimate source of everything is, I believe, desire. Oz is the land with which we are most familiar. We WANT Oz to be the most powerful, the best, the original magic land, etc. Since Lurline enchanted Oz to some degree, we want to believe that Lurline is the most powerful of all. Much as all roads once led to Rome, we want to believe that all magica thread lead to Burzee, so most of us do, no matter the evidence. David Hulan: That's a good point about the Cloak of immortality being "unique", yet Lurline granted immortality to an estimated 500,000 individuals. Hmmm, how can this be resolved? John Bell: Oh, for the love of crumbcake. These books and characters will NEVER become Public Domain, if this keeps up. :-( What does this mean for the RPT books? Are the all under the gun until 2046? I'm a follower of Congress. Who, if I may ask, is your congressman? Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:24:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-18-98 stil no posts in that news group (which does exist contrary to some posts made in last digest) as for the hudson brothres razzle dazzle show i do recall a hudson brothers show if it was called razzle dazzle i dont remmeber that but i do remmeber the show ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:37:51 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-18-98 Bob Spark: >> Bob: Gardner is referring to _Wizard_, which has >> forty-three decapitations and forty stranglings. > I'll accept your figures, but I'd like some explanation of them. The Tin Woodman beheaded himself, a wildcat that was chasing the Queen of the Field Mice, and forty wolves; the Cowardly Lion beheaded the giant spider; and the Scarecrow strangled forty crows. > I have no knowledge of either Lurline or Burzee. How may I gain >enlightenment? The information we have about Lurline under that name is limited; there's the passage in _Tin Woodman_ that you've presumably read, and another in _Magical Mimics_, plus there's an unnamed fairy band, almost certainly Lurline's, discussed in _Glinda_. Burzee is described in most detail in _L&A of Santa Claus_ and _Zixi_; it's also likely (though arguable) that Queen Lulea in _Zixi_ is the same as Lurline. Some argue that Zurline of _Santa Claus_ is also the same as Lurline, but that's a weaker position, I think; Zurline is queen of the wood nymphs, and they're not the same as fairies. Lulea and Lurline are both supposed to be queens of the fairies. Ruth: I think _Grampa_ may be the most Carrollian of Thompson's books; Fumbo's missing head, Gorba's garden, the fall down the chute to the underworld, the shape-changing to birds - all those seem rather like some of Alice's adventures, in spirit if not in detail. >David Hulan: Oh, right, I'd forgotten the explanation that the socks are >actually wool. (Does sound kind of itchy, doesn't it.) But I don't think >I'd care to go on that island wearing cotton socks and rely on that for >protection. Nor would I. I think in the early part of this century it was fairly common for socks to be knitted from wool; Thompson has Wag talking about his purple wool socks, for another example. J.L.: >I must see this! Alas, I have only the "white cover" paperback I bought for >$1.50 in about 1973. Peter Glassman, where are you? _Tin Woodman_ should be out from BoW late this year or early next (more likely the latter). I've never seen the color plates for it, either; my copy was bought new in 1943 or 1944, by which time R&L had discontinued the plates. Since it's not a book I like that much, I haven't bothered to try to buy an older copy with the plates. I can wait for BoW. I guess tastes differ; I just checked the picture of Ozma that so enchants Dave and consider it one of the less attractive illustrations of her. Makes her look like one of the silent film stars of the teens, and that wasn't a style I admired. (The Twenties, now, are something else.) >Congress has voted to extend US copyright terms by 20 years, the NEW YORK >TIMES reports today. President Clinton is expected to sign this bill, the >Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act. Drat. Not unexpected, but annoying. I guess I'll have to keep bidding on color-plate editions of Thompson books at Oz convention auctions, or maybe see if Herm or someone has copies for reasonable prices. As I've said before, I really prefer the BoW reprints to the originals, but I'd like to have CP versions of all the ones that had them, and it would appear now that I won't get those for the Thompsons in any other way. Lessee, I still need _Cowardly Lion_, _Grampa_, _Gnome King_, _Jack Pumpkinhead_, _Yellow Knight_, _Purple Prince_, and _Ojo_. Scott H.: The post about changing English spelling is a much-abbreviated plagiarism of "Meihem in ce Klasrum," which appeared in an SF magazine (I think _Astounding_) in the Forties. Dave: Thanks for the South Winkie report. Wish I could have been there. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:56:15 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Books: In case I haven't said so yet, I am now accepting reviews of Books of Wonder Oz books. Chris Dulabone has already posted some reviews of them that you can see on my web page. http://tyler1.apprentice.com Chris has taken advantage of the fact that I accept negative reviews, so be warned, he goes right for the throat! :-) Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:27:31 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: TIN WOODMAN OF OZ and Woot Bob Spark wrote: <> A distinction without a difference if it's your head being un-ed from your body. Furthermore, if Langwidere didn't actually take heads from other females' bodies--i.e., if she had some other way of building her cranial collection--methinks they wouldn't have had separate personalities, she wouldn't have had to threaten Dorothy for her head, and she needn't have cajoled the girl into taking another in its place. Also, Martin Gardner's comment about beheading was in the context of childhood nightmares. Those don't require the actual sight of the chopping block, as in the stories of Mary, Queen of Scots, or Saint Denis. I know a woman who still feels chills when I mention Neill's picture of Princess Langwidere fitting on her head for the day. (That image also made a most effective shot in RETURN TO OZ.) About the Wizard's balloon flight home with and without Dorothy, Dave Hulan wrote: <> Even 50 pounds would change the speed with which the Wizard's balloon rose (influential on finding favorable winds) and the time it could remain in the air (crucial for a long journey). Perhaps the Wizard could indeed compensate for the loss of Dorothy's weight. He would certainly have more flexibility making the journey without her weight than with it. But there's simply no way one can calculate all factors in hot-air ballooning. That leads to the possibility there are *two* series of adventures people could write: the Wizard's voyage home to America, and a "what if?" travelogue for Dorothy and the Wizard together. I suspect one reason we view this journey differently is that you conceive of the Oz-to-America trip as involving a slip through a dimensional vortex or the like, and I hold to Baum's implication that Oz is in an undiscovered region of this planet. The latter view requires a long physical journey over water. In the former, it's conceivable Diggs could simply float a short time, pop through, and arrive five feet over Omaha. Dave Hulan wrote: <> I considered this, but concluded the cloak's effect was far smaller than Lurline's enchantment. The cloak is in Noland for a short time, even its longest-lasting effects aren't permanent, and none of the wishes it grants alters anything as profound as the mortality of an entire country. Indeed, the cloak becomes as influential as it does through a coincidence unrelated to its magic, when it suddenly becomes royal property. Dave Hulan wrote: <> Burzee is less unnatural (i.e., as unlike our nature) as Mo, but that's not my only measure of magic. Lurline's band and all the other powerful immortals who live and convene there (ryls, knooks, gnomes, etc.) make Burzee "a profoundly magical place, in some ways more magical than Oz" to me. For all the charm of Baum's Oz, very few fairy races make their homes there. Mike Turniansky wrote: <> What a clever lad! Earlier I posited (based on its physical description as deep and narrow) that this hole was a well akin to the wells in TIK-TOK, RINKITINK, and SCARECROW. A pit I imagine as wider. Also, with the exception discussed next, I'm not sure Baum ever passed up an applicable pun once he thought of it. Which brings me to Til Loon. Like Dave Hulan, I've suspected Baum originally named that character Sal, completing the trio of loony puns started by Panta and Bal. TIN WOODMAN was a kids' book published in the year before Prohibition was enacted nationally, so "Sal Loon" wouldn't have been very market-oriented. Ruth Berman wrote: <<"loving" in this context would seem to mean "sexually passionate." Kindness is a kind of love, but not necessarily a sexual one.>> Sex is an important factor in our world, but I don't think that sort of passion would distinguish "kind" and "loving" in Baum's Oz. I think love does require some sort of passion, directed at specific people or things and not everyone who happens by (as in kindness). But if a sex drive were required for love, Nick would need something restored besides his heart, if you know what I mean. Nudge nudge, say no more. Interestingly, WIZARD makes clear that physical attraction to Nimmie Ammee is what made Nick Chopper fall in love with her. None of this I-talked-to-her, found-we-enjoyed-each-other's-company, realized-we-were-soulmates hooey. "There was one of the Munchkin girls who was so beautiful that I soon grew to love her with all my heart" [Chap. 5]. Small wonder the relationship didn't last. About TIN WOODMAN's plot, Dave Hulan wrote: <> I don't find the outset of TIN WOODMAN as creaky as you do. The quest for Nimmie Ammee isn't a pleasure trip, as in ROAD and one of the two plots in EMERALD CITY. She isn't an unnecessary trifle, like the birthday gifts of MAGIC. And her character isn't created simply to be searched for, like the Shaggy Man's brother. She's a real loose end from WIZARD, the fundamental book in the series. It's quite plausible that Woot and Baum's correspondents would ask about her and why the Tin Woodman hasn't sought her out. [Which brings up a question I've wondered about for a while: Did the Baums save L. Frank's letters from readers? Has anyone studied them to confirm that all the ideas and statements he credits to readers actually came from letters?] What would the Tin Woodman plausibly do on being asked about Nimmie Ammee? I don't look for him to be totally smart and rational, just true to how Baum has drawn his character. Throughout his stories Baum had dropped hints of the high regard Nick has for himself; given that vanity, it's quite in character for him to assume his old sweetheart still carries a torch. Furthermore, Woot has framed his question in a way that cuts to the tin man's sense of himself: "It seems to me that the Wizard fooled you. It can't be a very Kind Heart" [32]. To maintain his self-image, Nick *must* prove himself to be kind. And once the Winkie Emperor perceives a creature in sorrow whom he can help--whose suffering, in this case, he'd be responsible for--of course he would go to her. In PATCHWORK GIRL he was ready to sacrifice two people for the sake of a yellow butterfly; his actions in this book fit that pattern. You're right that Nick has to avoid the Emerald City to quickly get into interesting danger. Even here, I find his reasoning understandable as well as convenient: "It will be rather hard for me, you must admit, when I confess to Nimmie Ammee that I have come to marry her because it is my duty to do so, and therefore the fewer witnesses there are to our meeting the better for both of us" [39-40]. The tin man's going to propose marriage, despite his ambivalent feelings about the lady. That's awkward enough. But to tell Dorothy? Nick probably suspects she'll try to talk him about of it--which she does [186-7]. He knows she'll want to come along--which she does [188]. (YELLOW KNIGHT hints she wouldn't be the only one.) Another way to look at Nick's choice: If you were going to renew relations with an old girlfriend, would you bring along a crowd, especially a crowd of newer female friends? Would you want to have this sort of conversation? "I've come to marry you and make you the happiest tin empress in Oz!" "Oh, Nick! This is so sudden! But who's that pretty little girl outside--the one trying to peek through my curtains?" "That's the girl I went away with while you were crying your eyes out over me. But don't worry--she's just a dear friend." "And who's that even prettier girl with the flowers in her hair?" "That's another friend. I've pledged to serve her forever, and sometimes I stay at her house, but don't let that bother you. I'm still devoted to you, in a dutiful, non-loving sort of way." "Oh, Nick! Boo hoo hoo hoo!" "Please, miss, contain those tears of joy! I might rust, after all." Dave Hulan wrote: <> Woot instigates the journey, overcomes the Loons, and captures Mrs. Yoop's magic apron. After the restoration, however, he indeed does an Ozga-like fade into the background of the plot. Polychrome becomes the character with ideas. Woot nonetheless remains the character whose eyes show us the action, as with the invisible country [232] and invisible wall of air [261]. A while back I asked why there are so many stories about Tip, a character Baum indicated no longer existed, and so few about Woot, a character whose profession would naturally lead him into adventures. I took up my own challenge, and drafted a Woot story earlier this year. In researching that, I tried to glean as many hints as I could about his character. His two most distinctive traits seem to be caution and politeness--hardly the ingredients of a swashbuckler! Woot tells us, "I had home and friends,...but they were so quiet and happy and comfortable that I found them dismally stupid" [17]. So he left his home "in one of the top corners of the Gillikin Country, near to Oogaboo" [40]. Baum makes similar boredom a motivation for the Frogman in LOST PRINCESS and Kiki Aru in MAGIC. The prince's squire in YEW also disdains the comfortable. Nevertheless, Woot hardly ever seeks out adventure. "I was very careful to avoid [unpleasant people] during my journey south," he says. "The safest way is the best way, even for one who is brave and determined." The Tin Woodman and Scarecrow shame him into traveling through uncharted Gillikin territory: "A Wanderer should have no fear." Woot fakes an "assumed carelessness" [41-2], but throughout the journey he's the voice of worry [48-9, 68, 208, 230, 238, 270]. (In contrast, the straw and tin men have acquired an unwarranted confidence in their bodies' indestructibility.) Caution in turn seems to have led the Wanderer into being uninformed. "Woot had seen very little of magic during his wanderings" [81], even though he's been hiking through Oz "for nearly a full year" [17]! The boy has never heard of the Tin Woodman [15], Dorothy [31], or Jinjur [133]. (He does know about jaguars [115] and dragons [123], though that might be some monkey instinct kicking in.) Woot's home village must be very boring indeed for his wanderings to provide more stimulation. As for his other trait, Woot is "very well mannered" [185]. He quickly bows to the tin emperor [20] and Ozma [167]. When Nick Chopper insists that Nimmie Ammee showed wisdom by loving him, the boy says no more than, "I think she was a very *nice* girl" [29--my emphasis]. Even at the depth of his embarrassment, being scrubbed by "as pretty a girl as I've ever seen" [154], he suffers in silence. No doubt Woot's manners help to preserve him from trouble in his wanderings. Tyler Jones wrote: <> It was called THE HUDSON BROTHERS RAZZLE DAZZLE SHOW. It ran 1974-75, or 30 minutes, depending on how you look at that. Bill, Brett, and Mark Hudson played songs and did comedy, both rather well in a Monkees sort of way. My favorite part of the show, however, was a pith-helmeted Englishman with a life-size emu puppet sewn so it appeared that one of his arms was around the bird instead of up its neck. One of the Hudsons has married Cindy Williams, who played Shirley on LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY. They produce movies and TV shows. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:48:13 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-18-98 Speaking of strange kid shows, does anyone remember _Kideo TV_ (1986). It featured _Rainbow Brite_, _Popples_, and _Ulysses 31_. The latter portion, the best part, was replaced mid-season with _The Get-Along Gang_. There were four teenagers in the show. Two of them were named Fast Lane and Couch Potato. I don't remember the names of the other two. The IMDb Stump the staff has ignored my requests because they don't know. I'd like to know who the actors were and the character names. The funniest one was when Coauch Potato was drinking beer to throw up on an old lady's plant like the other "cool kids" were. But the two good kids, whose names I can't remember talked him out of drinking all together. "Do you even like beer?" the girl said. Couch Potato replied: "No way, this stuff tastes like soap!" I've asked Screen-L and a guy with a _Ulysses 31_ site, and none could tell me, but people on the Digest seem to know a lot about kids shows. I'll look up The Razzle Dazzle Show in _Total Television_ (which does not, BTW, have _Kideo TV_, nor _The Bloodhound Gang_, and its entries for _3-2-1 Contact_ and other CTW shows is really lame. Scott ============================================================================ ==== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:20:53 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-18-98 Tyler: Much luck, going on, er, autopilot... >Re: Purported decapitations. >> The clearest parallel to Carroll's Queen of Hearts is >> Princess Langwidere: both threaten little-girl heroines >> with beheading. > Allow me to make the distinction that--in a fairyland--an > unbodied > head doesn't necessarily signify a disembodied head. The origins of > Princess Langwidere's 30 heads are never discussed. She does not > threaten Dorothy with beheading, she merely applies strong-arm > tactics to attempt to convince her to trade heads. Well, Wonderland is a fairyland too, isn't it? Tho not in the sense of Baum's fairylands, I guess. Bob Spark: Glad to see you got, er, a head start talking about decapitations... Snuck: Most often used in terms of jams--ie, Snucker's Strawberry Jam... Dorothy deaged??! Dorothy as five years old, David?? That certainly doesn't fit with my impression of her as I grew up . . . My fault, probably, I just never thought of her quite like that. (I thought we had decided a few years ago that she was at least eight or nine.) <> She had to enchant Oz first, perhaps. Santa spends a good deal of his time in the "real world"--every December 24, at least--and perhaps that's why he needed a cloak, while if he had stayed in Oz or some other fairy land, perhaps he wouldn't need the cloak... I'm rambling again, I think, but you can probably guess what I meant. :-) Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:22:37 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz More reviews: Chris Dulabone has posted still more reviews and this time, he's got reviews of several of the Quasi-Famous 7 as well as a couple of independents. Enjoy! Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:53:04 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz More on Copyrights: I've been studying the article in the NY Times as well as the Bill (Senate 505) and I believe the copyright extension only applies to works created on or after January 1, 1978 or copyrights owned by Corporations (such as Mickey Mouse). If this is the case, then the new law may not apply to the Oz characters, at least not those in the Famous Forty. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:01:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-18-98 David: >> As to whether the fairies of Burzee, or even the uberfairies we >> glimpse >>in SANTA CLAUS, are the actual *sources* of all magic, I don't >>hazard a >>guess. > >There's the Supreme Master, who created the Cloak of Immortality >that was >bestowed on Santa Claus; he never appears on stage in any book, but >maybe >he's the true source of all magic? (Of course, there's a bit of >inconsistency here; the Cloak of Immortality is said to be a unique item in >SANTA CLAUS, but if Lurline can convey immortality on all the >inhabitants >of Oz she should have been able to do the same thing for Santa.) Well, we don't really know when the enchantment of Oz happened relative to the bestowing of immortality upon Santa. If the enchantment of Oz happened first, maybe Lurline had only one Grant-Immortality-to-Everyone-in-a-Country spell, and was incapable of granting immortality upon anyone else. If Santa was made immortal first, maybe Lurline acquired some additional powers afterwards. >>I just note that Burzee, like Mo and the Great Jinjin's kingdom, is >>a profoundly magical place, in ways more magical than Oz. > >The members of Lurline's band, who dwell in Burzee, certainly have >great >magical powers, but otherwise I don't recall anything all that >special >about Burzee as a magical place - compared with Oz or Mo, anyhow. >Examples? I can't think of any. Maybe the fairies chose Burzee because it was a magical place, but there's really no indication of that in the books. As far as I know, Lurline's band would have the same powers if they dwelt anywhere else in Nonestica (and possibly even the Great Outside World). -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:24:27 -0700 From: "A. E. Schaible" Subject: oz Hi everybody! Sorry it has been so long since I have posted anything. I know everyone knows about the re-release of the movie, but I thought I'd mention that I saw a trailer for it on Friday. It was kind of cute. The voice-over person said "Good news, The Wizard of Oz has been digitally remastered" and then it showed Dorothy saying "It's too wonderful to be true!" Liz schaible@la.bigger.net ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: xfiles meets oz The Nov. 22 episode is written and directed by creator and executive producer Chris Carter in a widescreen format. The episode finds Mulder in the middle of a bizarre conflict on a mysterious ship in the Bermuda Triangle. In an homage to The Wizard of Oz, Mulder journeys back into time where he sees familiar faces. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:06:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Hanff Subject: Sotheby's Auction Sale in London, 10 November 1998 Ozzy Digest readers may be interested in tracking down a copy of the catalogue for the November 10th sale to be held in London by Sotheby's. There's a remarkably fine array of first edition Baum Oz and non-Oz titles. The illustrations (several in color) reveal the condition of many of these items as being superlative. The earliest of the titles is a first edition of Mother Goose in Prose, followed by a first of Father Goose His Book, with copies of three 1900 Baum titles, The Army Alphabet, The Navy Alphabet, and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, the last being shown in a full-color photograph. The first edition of American Fairy Tales (1901) is present, as are firsts of each of Baum's subsequent Oz books through Glinda of Oz (1920). An inscribed copy of Queen Zixi of Ix, and a copy of John Dough and the Cherub, including the contest blank, are also present. The estimates range from 600 to 800 pounds for the less valuable items to 8 to 12,000 pounds for the Wizard. Good luck! Peter Hanff ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest I received the following email from a visitor to my website. If anyone can help this person, please email them DIRECTLY. Hi, I have the book The Patchwork Girl of Oz. Copyright 1913. It is in very good shape. Someone is interested in buying it but I don't know what to sell it for. If you could E-mail that information to me I would really appreciate it. Thank you Shaunna Tito E-mail address; Siso3@aol.com Thanks, Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:56:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Here is another question from a visitor to my website that if anyone can help this person with, please contact them DIRECTLY. I am an avid Wizard of Oz fan, but have been asked a question I have no answer for. I always prided myself in being able to answer anything about the books or the movie, but a friend stumped me on this... May be you can help me with it. How Long is The Yellow Brick Road????? I have the full set of paper back books that have pictures of the road, but there is no indication of a legend to measure it by. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Lauree (email: FOURSENG@aol.com) Thanks, Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Oct 98 17:11:34 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things LURLINE: Bob S. wrote: >I appreciate the information but would like to know its source so I >can read it for myself. Thanks, I think it's both in our current BCF and _Magical Mimics of Oz_... SIZE: Lauree (via Jim Whitcomb) wrote: >How Long is The Yellow Brick Road????? Ah...Back to the "How big is Oz?" debate again, are we? Maybe I can send her what I say on my page and everyone else can send their MOPPETs? :) ADDRESS CHANGE: As I said in the separate message today, my (and the Ozzy Digest's) address is now DaveH47@mindspring.com Am I dreaming? Are the mail bounces gone with the wind?? If Mindspring is not on that wretched black hole list, then *everyone* should be receiving the Digest directly from me now! Barbara Belgrave et. al., *are* you?? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "What is Reality anyway...? Nothin' but a collective *hunch*!" -- Lily Tomlin ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 22 - 23, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:32:49 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-98 DAVID HULAN: Last year I made a report on the handwritten manuscripts of _Tin Woodman_ and _Magic_. You asked me about "Sal Loon" then, and I replied that I hadn't noticed. When I get a chance, I'll go look at it again. A. * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:33:42 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest In response to J.L.'s plaintive comment about not being able to see what the pre-tin Nick Chopper looked like, I've scanned the color plate and placed it on my web site at http://www.smu.edu/~gbirrell/nick.html --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:42:59 -0700 From: Steve Teller Subject: Tin Woodman Now that THE TIN WOODMAN has been introduced into the discussion, I can give my toughts. TWOO (which is Woot spelled sideways) was the only Baum Oz book I did not read as a child. My father had all the other Baum titles (and about half of the rest) so I was able to read them all over and over again. My father had had a copy of TIN WOODMAN, but it was missing, so I had heard of Woot the Wanderer (who I pictured in my mind's eye as being an old man--like Merlin) and Nimmie Amee. I found J. L. Bell's comments on the thematic unity of TIN WOODMAN very interesting. Personally I fet that this was a book loaded with IE's. The main action of the book is Nick Chopper's search for Nimmie Amee. Loonville, Mrs. Yoop. the Dragons, Tommy Quickstep, Jinjur, the Hiop-po-gy-raf and the Swynes are just delaying activities, they do not really advance the plot. This is one book that really looses a lot without the color plates. R uth Berman's comments about the illustrations (In the pictures, it's interesting that Neill gives us the only drawing of the WWE, and also, in one of the color plates, the only drawing of the pre-tinned Nick.) is quite perceptive, as far as it goes, but I would add that only in the color plates do we see a full face Nimmee Amee and also the complete ChopFyte. It is notable that both the Nick Chopper plate and the Chopfyte one Jno. R. Neill shows his lack of close reading of the book. The first of these supposedly showed Nick Chopper after he had lost one leg, but the picture shows him having two flesh legs. Chopfyte is described as having one tin arm, but both arms are meat. I feel I should mention the Little Golden Book edition of TIN WOODMAN that came out in 1952. This version omits the main plot altogether. There is no Woot, no Polychrome, no Nimmie Amee, no Ku-Klip. Nick and the Scarecrow make a trip to a party at Ozma's but they visit Loonville (in one sentence) meet the Hippogyraf (in the next) and are transformed to a tin own and a stuffed bear by Mrs Yoop. Ozma and Dorothy see their predicamentin the Majic Picture (which looks exactly like a television set with "rabbit ears."} You can often find this on eBay. There is also a Russian Book, entitled "Iron Woodman" which includes a Russian text of TWOO with remarkable new illustrations. Woot the Wanderer looks like a boy scout with a shorts and a back pack. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 10:01:15 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: ozzy digest Tyler Jones: You ask if the extended copyright puts RPT's Oz books under copyright until 2046. No, according to the information given when the bill passed the House (and I haven't heard that the Senate version changes it) the book that would have otherwise come into public domain this year ("Cowardly Lion," I believe) will come into public domain in 2018 -- unless, of course, the forces of the large holders of copyrights due to run out about then (Disney and the Gershwin estate seem to be the main ones) at that point mount another successful campaign for an extension. The other half dozen RPT R&L books still under copyright will follow "Cowardly Lion" into public domain one a year. David Hulan: Perhaps with the crunch likely to come for color-plate editions of those half dozen RPTs, it would be a good idea to lobby Bill Stillman to reprint the color-plates as "Bugle" covers, or at least the most interesting ones. I think you're right that "Grampa" also shows Carroll's influence on RPT. Bob Spark: Besides the books David mentioned with material on Burzee and Lurline, there are some descriptions of gifts Lurline left in Oz in "Lost King" and "Merry-go-Round" (also a brief mention in Snow's short story, "Murder in Oz"), and details on Burzee inhabitants in "Road." J.L. Bell: Enjoyed your riff on the effects of a supportive group of friends if Nick had gone through the Emerald City in "Tin Woodman." On the role of parts in addition to the heart required for sexual passion -- isn't that why the Wizard told Nick at the start that he was giving him a heart that was kind but not loving? Jeremy Steadman: Liked your suggestion of an immortality needing to hold up during jaunts to the mortal world as explanation of what makes Santa Claus's immortality different from all Ozian-spelled forms of immortality. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:04:26 -0700 Non-Ozzy help: Ozma, no doubt, uses the perfect operating system that does everything, but I'm interested in Operating Systems from the middle ages. Does anybody have access to Windows 3.1 and Windows 3.11 (not for workgroups) on floppy disks? If so, please e-mail me privately. Thanks. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:37:07 GMT From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-98 Tyler: >There seems to be some confusion >between the fairies Lurline, Zurline and Lulea. Are they one and the same? >Are they rulers of different fairy bands? etc. As I said in my last post, Zurline is not described as a fairy but a wood nymph - an immortal, but not a fairy. Baum is explicit in _Santa Claus_ in stating that fairies are a different class of immortal. On Page 181 the Fairy Queen is mentioned as a member of the Council of Immortals who lives in Burzee, and on Page 182 Zurline is mentioned as another member of that council, so it seems conclusive to me that Zurline is _not_ the Fairy Queen. That Lulea and Lurline are different names for that Fairy Queen, on the other hand, seems likely, since both are described as fairy queens who live in Burzee, and if they were separate you'd think they'd both be mentioned as members of the Council of Immortals. I agree with you that fairy magic isn't the source of all magic in Baum's universe, though. I checked your Web page for the BoW reviews. And you're certainly right that Chris Dulabone goes for the throat. It would be better if he didn't make it so clear that his "reviews" really constitute a vendetta against ECP, probably because they've made a commercial success out of something he continues to do on a shoestring. Where he likes an author personally (like Robin Hess or Carlsen/Gjovaag) he damns with faint praise, blaming the flaws on ECP; where he dislikes an author personally (like me) he goes for total nuclear destruction. After saying he can't remember anything about _Glass Cat_ (and admitting that he read a bootleg xerox of it) he says it's full of historical inaccuracies (nobody else has pointed out even one, and he has no specific instances) and says the only thing he can remember about it is an interminable discussion of fishermen's jargon (when there's no fishing done in the book, except for dolphins and ducks eating fish, and certainly no discussion of fishermen's jargon). Oh, well. I don't expect everyone to like the book, but I'd have hoped that a criticism of it at least would have something to do with what I wrote. >I've been studying the article in the NY Times as well as the Bill >(Senate 505) and I believe the copyright extension only applies to works >created on or after January 1, 1978 or copyrights owned by Corporations >(such as Mickey Mouse). Good news if so. J.L: > I suspect one reason we view this journey differently is that you >conceive of the Oz-to-America trip as involving a slip through a >dimensional vortex or the like, and I hold to Baum's implication that Oz is >in an undiscovered region of this planet. The latter view requires a long >physical journey over water. In the former, it's conceivable Diggs could >simply float a short time, pop through, and arrive five feet over Omaha. I base my theory on the fact that it's quite impossible for a hot-air balloon, without some source for reheating its air supply, to make a long journey over water, and the evidence is strong that the Wizard's balloon has no such means. I doubt if the balloon would arrive five feet over Omaha, but I do believe it would arrive a few hundred feet over somewhere in North America. >Dave Hulan wrote: ><profound (though not as profound as the Oz spell) effect on Noland, and to >a lesser degree on Ix. Also from Burzee, of course.>> > >I considered this, but concluded the cloak's effect was far smaller than >Lurline's enchantment. The cloak is in Noland for a short time, even its >longest-lasting effects aren't permanent, and none of the wishes it grants >alters anything as profound as the mortality of an entire country. I said it wasn't as profound as the Oz spell, but its effects did include saving Noland from the Ixian invasion (though it's also true that if it hadn't been for the cloak, there wouldn't have been an Ixian invasion in the first place). >TIN WOODMAN was a kids' book published in the >year before Prohibition was enacted nationally, so "Sal Loon" wouldn't have >been very market-oriented. I agree; I just wonder whether this was a Baum or a R&L decision. Interestingly, if it had been a British book this might not have been a problem; "saloon" isn't a common word for a drinking establishment there, being more widely used (at least in those days) for the type of automobile we call a "sedan." We'll just have to agree to disagree about the strength of motivation in _Tin Woodman_. It's true that some of the secondary plots in other books are weaker - as you mention, the _tour de Oz_ in EC and the search for birthday presents in _Magic_ - but both those books are strengthened by the Nome King's attempts to conquer Oz, which I consider the primary plots of each. _Road_ develops weakly (which is why I like it even less than _Tin Woodman_), but the primary plot - as in _DotWiz_ - is Dorothy's effort to get home after being lost, and it seems to me that that's a much stronger motivation, for a child especially, than the TW belatedly deciding to hunt up his one-time girlfriend. And the trio of travelers don't need to venture through unexplored Gillikin territory to avoid attracting a large entourage; they don't have to even enter the EC to stay within the civilized part of Oz. Besides, as we see when they're at Jinjur's, Dorothy or Ozma is as likely as not to look for them in the Magic Picture, see what they're doing, and try to join them, even if they avoid the EC area altogether. It just doesn't work for me, and it didn't even when I was a kid. > [Which brings up a question I've wondered about for a while: Did the >Baums save L. Frank's letters from readers? Has anyone studied them to >confirm that all the ideas and statements he credits to readers actually >came from letters?] I know that Maud Baum burned most of L. Frank's papers after his death, so probably most if not all of those letters are gone forever. Someone like Steve or Robin or Peter Hanff probably can say with more authority. Interesting discussion of Woot. As a character I think he has more potential than was realized in TW. Jeremy: >Dorothy deaged??! >Dorothy as five years old, David?? That certainly doesn't fit with >my impression of her as I grew up . . . > >My fault, probably, I just never thought of her quite like that. (I >thought we had decided a few years ago that she was at least eight or >nine.) It depends on what you believe about the chronology of the books. Eight or nine is more plausible if, and only if, you agree with me that the first six Oz books are crammed into about three years. If you go by publication dates you have to stretch things to even get her to five at the time of _Wizard_, since it's clear that she's physically about eleven, give or take a year, after she moves to Oz. MOPPeT is that the first six books take place in 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1902, and 1902 or at latest 1903. That would make Dorothy about 7-8 in _Wizard_, which is reasonably consistent with her personality in that book. Nathan: It's certainly possible to reconcile Santa's Cloak of Immortality and Lurline's granting immortality to all Ozites; it just needs explaining and Baum never did it. Dave: I've heard from Barbara Belgrave that she did indeed receive the 10/21 Digest, so _that_ particular exclusion seems to have been repaired by your changing from Delphi to Mindspring. ************************************ I received a review copy of _Visitors from Oz_ day before yesterday (showing that it pays to ask!) and read it yesterday. Overall, my reaction to it was considerably more positive than Atticus's; it wasn't a great Oz book, or even up to most of the FF, but it was quite enjoyable and on the whole seemed to be in the spirit of the FF books. I thought it resembled Thompson more than Baum, despite Gardner's statement in his preface that he was trying to imitate Baum. The best aspect of the book for fans of the Oz books is that it publicizes their existence - if only the book will sell well. At least, since it's published by a major publishing house, it has a reasonable chance of doing so. Those general remarks aside, here's a more detailed review, but don't read it if you don't want to know much about the book before you read it yourself. ***********Spoilers for _Visitors from Oz_************ Samuel Gold is a highly successful film producer and an avid fan of Oz, one who believes it truly exists. His latest blockbuster has been _Alice in Carrolland_, which mixed live action with computer graphics and became the biggest-grossing film of all time. As the book opens he's planning his dream movie - a musical version of _The Emerald City of Oz_. A problem is that he needs the live Tin Woodman and Scarecrow to use for publicity, and in the movie they're going to be computer graphics. (Why the Tin Woodman and Scarecrow for a movie of _Emerald City_, since they only appear near the end and don't do much, isn't made clear - probably because the public is familiar with them from the MGM movie.) He believes that Glinda keeps track of Oz-related happenings in the US via an Internet group called the Ozmapolitans (which isn't that unlike the Ozzy Digest), though of course she'd use an assumed identity. So he E-mails all the Ozmapolitans asking that if one of them is Glinda, that she get in touch with him. She does, and he invites Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman to come to New York for a visit. The opening chapter is probably the weakest part of the book. Gardner needs to get in a lot of exposition, and the story drags along while he does it. There's a villain named Buffalo Boggs, who combines wickedness with deplorable personal hygeine. He's working on a rival blockbuster movie - a version of _Peter Pan_ starring Madonna. He's the antagonist once Dorothy and company get to America, but that awaits the last third of the book. When Dorothy gets the invitation she decides to accept it if she can figure out a way to get to our earth. According to Gardner, Oz was once on our earth, but Glinda moved it at some point through the fourth dimension into a parallel world, and magic transportation will no longer work between the worlds (though the Magic Belt can still transport items from one place to another in our world). It isn't clear when this happened; it can't have been at the end of _Emerald City_, because Betsy and Trot are in Oz. If we accept Thompson as canonical, it can't have been before _Speedy_, since Ozma sends him home by magic at the end of that book. If we accept the entire FF as canonical, it can't have been before _Merry-Go-Round_, since Robin comes to Oz via magic. Gardner isn't specific about which works he accepts. Anyhow, magic can't do it, but science can; Professor Wogglebug takes a Topology pill and determines that a Klein bottle can bridge the gap between the Oz and USA worlds. And Ku-klip, the master tinsmith, can use the professor's design to make a Klein bottle big enough for the party to pass through. Dorothy, incidentally, is physically 17 in this book, and says that that was her age when she moved to Oz in _Emerald City_. This contradicts Baum's statement in _Tin Woodman_ that at that time Ozma looked 14 or 15 and Dorothy "much younger," but it's not a major point; Dorothy certainly could have let herself age a few years since the last canonical book was published in 1963. In the Oz portion of the book (about 2/3 of it) Dorothy's age doesn't really matter; in the US portion, she needs to be at least 16-17 or so to be free to do some of the things she does. Unlike her experience in Thompson's _Lost King of Oz_, she doesn't age to the point she would have if she'd stayed in the US (which is a good thing, since she'd be well over 100); possibly this is a difference between traveling between planes by magic and by science? After the Klein bottle is completed Dorothy, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman set out with it in a sort of trailer attached to the Red Wagon, also pulled by the Sawhorse. They need to go to Ballville, in the far northeast corner of the Gillikin country, because that's the point in Oz that coincides with Central Park in New York. On the way they have a couple of Thompsonian encounters, though rather than inventing odd little communities as Thompson did Gardner places Mt. Olympus and Wonderland in Oz. (This isn't the original Mt. Olympus; when people stopped worshiping the Greco-Roman pantheon, they lost their powers and rather than fade out completely they moved to Oz.) These encounters are frequently amusing, though they suffer somewhat from Gardner feeling a need to Explain. It's something I'm all too inclined to do in my own writing, which probably makes it easier for me to recognize when I see it in others'. I personally found them quite enjoyable, but I have the feeling that they may slow down the story excessively for children. They finally reach Ballville, which turns out to be an adjunct of the Valley of Lost Things from _Dot and Tot of Merryland_ (mistitled _Dot and Tot in Merryland_ when it's referred to) where lost balls go if they stay lost long enough. There's a rather gratuitous sequence where the Klein bottle is stolen by a giant named Big Jim Foote and they're aided in its recovery by a bear detective named Sheerluck Brown. All this seems to do is to add a couple of chapters to the book and give Gardner the chance to give Big Jim's family a bunch of punnish names - Kisma, Washa, Smelly, and Ophelia. But finally, on page 110, the three drop through the Klein bottle and into Central Park, where they're met by Samuel Gold and taken to his apartment on Fifth Avenue. Naturally there's a sensation in the media, though no one believes that they're really from Oz. Even though the Scarecrow sticks a spear through his body and a knitting needle through his head; even though the Tin Woodman opens up his body to show that it's hollow (except for his red velvet heart) - it's still assumed that it's some kind of fancy trick. (James Randi invites them to his home in Florida so he can perform some controlled experiments, but they don't have the time.) Even so, Gold is getting priceless publicity for his upcoming film, and Buffalo Boggs hires a couple of bumbling hit men named Mugsy and Bugsy to destroy the Ozites. Of course, their attempts are doomed to failure. Throwing the Scarecrow off the Empire State Building does him no harm, and neither does shooting the Tin Woodman. Dorothy would have been more vulnerable, but Ozma has loaned her Inga's three pearls (which he'd given Ozma as a birthday present some years before), and also keeps an eye on her in the Magic Picture. Mugsy ambushes Dorothy when she goes for a jog one morning around the Central Park reservoir, but Ozma intervenes and uses the Magic Belt to take Mugsy's knife away and put it in Dorothy's hand. Dorothy says, "Now it's _my_ turn to cut _your_ throat!", but it's clear in the context that she's just trying to scare Mugsy and doesn't have any intention of actually doing him permanent damage. In fact, Ozma takes control of the knife back and uses it to cut Mugsy's belt and then prod him in the rear so he has to run away holding his pants up. The violence in this book isn't notably more than you'll find in the original series, and it's all of the cartoonish sort that kids are quite used to. In the end Samuel Gold decides that the adventures of Dorothy and her friends in the US are so exciting that he'll make a movie of them rather than of _Emerald City_. I don't know if Gardner actually has some kind of film deal going - probably not - but I personally would much rather see EC made into a movie than _Visitors_. And I'd rather see any of several other FF books filmed than EC, though it wouldn't be a bad choice. All in all, this is a readable book that is reasonably true to the original series both in spirit and in historical accuracy. Its biggest weakness is that Gardner had to assume that the readers would have little or no knowledge of the original books, so he pauses to explain too many things that someone who already knows the books would know. If children like this book it should certainly stimulate more of them to read the originals, and that's good. But if the constant explanations bore the children so they don't like the book, then it won't matter that he's told them a great deal about the originals. I hope that the book has a great deal of success; I have some doubt that it will. **************End of Spoilers************************ David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-98 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:32:34 PDT J. L. Bell: >Furthermore, if Langwidere didn't actually take heads from other >females' bodies--i.e., if she had some other way of building her >cranial >collection--methinks they wouldn't have had separate personalities, >she >wouldn't have had to threaten Dorothy for her head, and she needn't >have >cajoled the girl into taking another in its place. If Langwidere had taken the heads from other women, what would she have given them in return? Or did she only start trading heads soon before _Ozma_, and had stolen them in the past? There's really no indication in the text as to where Langwidere obtained her heads, but it might make an interesting story. >"Woot had seen very little of magic during his wanderings" [81], even >though he's been hiking through Oz "for nearly a full year" [17]! The >boy >has never heard of the Tin Woodman [15], Dorothy [31], or Jinjur >[133]. He is also unaware that no one in Oz can die, which seems to be common knowledge to most Ozites. Jeremy: >Dorothy as five years old, David?? That certainly doesn't fit with >my impression of her as I grew up . . . Don't forget that we're talking about the Dorothy of _Wizard_. She aged several years before she came to Oz to live. Dave: >SIZE: >Lauree (via Jim Whitcomb) wrote: >>How Long is The Yellow Brick Road????? > >Ah...Back to the "How big is Oz?" debate again, are we? Maybe I can >send her what I say on my page and everyone else can send their >MOPPETs? :) She might have been asking how long the prop in the movie was, rather than the road itself. Also, it has occurred to me that the road wouldn't have been as long in the movie as it was in the book, since the journey did not take as long in the former medium. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:26:09 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: TIN WOODMAN OF OZ comments Content-Disposition: inline Tyler Jones wrote: <> The Thompson and Neill Oz books fall under the provision that "Extends the duration of copyrights in their renewal term at the time of the effective date of this Act to 95 years from the date such copyrights were originally secured," as the summary at http://thomas.loc.gov says. The NY TIMES report indeed mentioned Disney, which was one of the biggest names lobbying for extended copyright terms. It also mentioned the songs of the Gershwin brothers, which are individually-held copyrights created around the same time Thompson was writing Oz books. All of those copyrighted works will now stay out of the public domain for an additional 20 years. (Works that have already entered the public domain, including all of Baum, all of Snow, and some of Thompson's Oz books, remain available to all publishers and authors. Books and characters created by Rachel Cosgrove Payes, Eloise Jarvis McGraw, Lauren Lynn McGraw, Dick Martin, and others writing after 1976 will remain under copyright protection for their authors' lifetimes plus 70 years.) Tyler, I live in the 4th district of Massachusetts. Turning back to TIN WOODMAN, here are miscellaneous comments about its story: Baum briefly enjoys his old jokes about rulers, with Emperor Nick disclaiming real responsibilities [38] and Panta saying Bal was chosen King of Loonville because he had the least common sense [54]. But the rest of TIN WOODMAN is remarkable for the *lack* of communities and kings the heroes visit. They stop only at isolated cottages. The one ruler they meet during the last twenty chapters is Ozma, Baum's ideal. Mrs. Yoop turned Polychrome into a canary to sing for her [74]. According to the film KING OF THE HILL, however, only male canaries sing. Though Woot doesn't trust magic food, he can't resist coffee [86]. The stuff's addictive, I tell you! Mrs. Yoop claims, "*Nothing I transform ever gets back to its former shape again*" [88]. Ozma disproves this boast, of course, but so does Mrs. Yoop herself. Back on page 73, she revealed, "I transformed myself back to my former shape again." I like how Baum mentions the jaguar's "great body crashing through the bushes" on page 120, laying the ground for telling us about the path back to Woot's friends on page 130. He's not always this careful on details. Dorothy sensibly seems to make a habit of looking for Button-Bright in the Magic Picture [159]. Ozma's "silver Wand" appears crucial to her fairy magic [169, 182]. Even as a canary, Polychrome needs the equivalent to help Tommy Kwikstep: "she took a small twig in her bill and with it made several mystic figures" [140]. She can make food appear without a wand, however [120]. On pages 198 and 230-1, we learn that Ku-Klip equipped the Tin Soldier with a heart and a brain. This distinguishes him from the Tin Woodman, who originally had neither [30, 132]. However, Captain Fyter's upgrades turn out to be useless, like software features nobody wants that slow down the program. The Wicked Witch of the East doesn't seem to be completely wicked if she quickly glued Ku-Klip's finger back on [222]. Of course, she might see value in keeping the tinsmith at work, but this is just the sort of low-level helpful magic that a good village witch like Tattypoo would do. When fixing the tin men, Polychrome "depends on the good will of my unseen fairy guardians," invoking "Fairy Powers" [246, 248]. So even fairies have fairy guardians? In ROAD Baum told us Polychrome is visible only because Dorothy has reached a fairyland; here he implies there's another level of fairies who remain out of sight. Hints like this make me conclude that if Baum's universe does have a consistent set of magical/natural laws governing it, they're beyond our knowledge or comprehension. Tyler Jones wrote: <> Much as I echo your skepticism about our ability to plumb Baum's universe, I also have to say that Lurline granting permanent immortality to an entire land of people and animals seems to be the most far-reaching single use of magic in Baum's books. That act alone indicates she's a major player in this universe. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:00:12 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David Frank Godwin) Subject: Aging in Oz It is possible that this subject has been hashed and rehashed here and elsewhere before now, but I am new to this and am not familiar with what has gone before. The question is, how old is Dorothy? I read in Allen Eyles' The World of Oz that she is supposed to be about six at the time of WWiz. That strikes me as too young for someone with that much self-possession, but maybe kids in poor families in Kansas in 1900 necessarily had a lot on the ball. Be that as it may, WWiz must have taken place before 1900 when the book was published. Dorothy goes back to Kansas, visits Oz in Ozma of Oz, goes back to Kansas, and then visits Oz a third time in Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz as a result of getting caught up in the San Francisco earthquake of 1906. Dorothy has been in Kansas most of this time and has therefore aged normally. Maybe you can take off a few months for the time she was in Oz, but no more. So in 1906 she has to be at least twelve, right? Then she returns to Kansas once again, back to Oz again in Road, back to Kansas, then becomes a permanent resident in ECOz. By this time, airplanes are becoming common. If it is really 1910, the date of the book (which is plausible enough for the airplanes), then Dorothy is now at least sixteen. Well, I don't think so. For one thing, one book (I forget which) mentions Ozma as appearing to be about thirteen or fourteen, with Dorothy being quite a bit younger. How has all this been reconciled/explained/rationalized, or has it? An even more obvious difficulty arises with the RPT books featuring Peter from Philadelphia. In The Gnome King of Oz, he is ten. Then, in Pirates in Oz, we are informed that Ruggedo has been wandering during the five years that have elapsed since the events of The Gnome King of Oz. Peter shows up later in the book, but now he is eleven! Since ten plus five does not equal eleven, what's going on here? This one is a little easier, though. We merely have to assume the well-known fact that time passes differently in fairyland. It's usually the other way around, with someone spending a night with the elves and then coming back the next morning to find that everyone he used to know is long dead from old age. Nevertheless, there is no reason to suppose that the ratio remains constant. Actually, I think this discrepancy with Peter's age is a matter of carelessness rather than cleverness, but at least it's possible to come up with *some* explanation. But what about Dorothy? - David Godwin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:02:43 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-Disposition: inline Bob Spark: We learn much of Lurline in _Queen Zixi of Ix_, although that is not her name in that book. Other references to Lurline, and her enchantment of Oz, are scattered throughout the FF and beyond. End of thread: Yes, there was a show on called the Hudson Brothers Razzle Dazzle Show. I have confirmed what Chris said at http://www.typarty.com. It was only one for one season. John Bell: Woot has been in the Public Domain for five years. That's not a long time considering all of the other characters and stories, but it's long enough for stories to come out. The thing is, though, that Woot never became much of a major character in the series. He completely disappeared at the end of _Tin Woodman_ and the truth is most people who are inclined to write Oz books may not even know who he is. He was never even mentioned outside of that one book, and those who do know who he is prefer to write about more interesting characters. Leaping ahead one book in our BCF, one might be inclined to ask the same thing about Kiki Aru, who has only been PD for four years. Tip, as a proto-Ozma has special status, even though he (maybe) no longer exists. Jeremy: My current belief is that Dorothy was six at the time of _Wizard_. During the six years between that story and _Emerald City_, she aged five years. Her visits to Oz had the cumulative effect of slowing her age down by one year. Therefore, upon her entry into Oz, she appeared to be 11. Nathan: According to evidence in _Yellow Knight_, noted by David Hulan, Lurline's enchantment probably occured around 1200 A.D. Does anybody know how far back the legends of Santa Claus go? Dave: I'll verify that my "internet pen pal" is getting the digests directly from you. If so, praise Ozma and good-bye to all that bouncing hippikaloric! This is about Lauree, who wanted to know how long the Yellow Brick Road was. I mentioned you FAQ (and gave her your URL), then did some measuring on my Oz maps. The YBR is about 42.3% of the length of Oz, running from the eastern end of the Munchkin Country to the edge of the green country. Firing up my calculator, I got 38 miles. This ties in nicely with Ken Shepherds chronology, which placed Dorothy's original journey at six days. A little over six miles a day is a good workout for a six-year old girl (quite a lot sixes, eh?), with ample time for rests, eating, and other adventures. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:54:47 -0700 From: Ken Cope Organization: Ozcot Studios Subject: Oz is headed for CD-ROM This is intended to clear up a few rumours and answer some questions I've received about Ozcot Studios. Yes, we're currently in pre-production and scripting for the CD-ROM adventure that will bring the World of Oz to your computer. Oz, a world balancing sorcery and high technology, was first described by L. Frank Baum 100 years ago, in a series of books seldom out of print. "The Silicon Sands of Oz" is founded on and continues the famous Oz stories by L. Frank Baum and illustrations of John R. Neill. The Glass Cat, Scraps the Patchwork Girl, and Tik-Tok the Copper Clockwork Man are among the first characters you'll encounter when you explore today's Emerald City. Computer animated modeling of the famous places and people of Oz is well underway. For more details about the project look for the Royal Consulate of Oz to debut on the Web soon. With specific questions, send mailto:wogglebug@ozcot.com and you'll be updated. The script is by Andrew Nelson, whose CD-ROM "Titanic: Adventure Out of Time" still tops the charts. Producer Mary Schaffer has shepherded game projects at Paramount and Disney Interactive. Web development and design is by Genevieve Moore, a creative director at Red Sky Interactive. Animator Ken Cope art directs. By special dispensation of Princess Ozma, Powder of Life is in preparation by Dr. Pipt, the Crooked Magician, in his Blue Forest workshop on the border of the Munchkin and Gillikin Countries. The minions of the Nome King are hard at work manufacturing silent crystal engines of dream; software development proceeds at Professor Wogglebug's Royal Athletic College. Ken Cope Ozcot Studios mailto:ozpinhead@ozcot.com http://www.ozcot.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Oct 98 00:51:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MAIL PROBLEMS: It would appear that switching to Mindspring did indeed solve the "bounce" problem, for no one's messages were returned to me. Mindspring is apparently not on the "Black Hole" list and I it appears that the crisis is over... Sawhorse: Ouch! There he goes, knocking on me again! Why don't you knock on the Woozy for a change?! Woozy: I'm not made of wood -- I'm made of cubist meat! Anyway, thanks to everyone who help with forwarding Digests to people! MS-DOZ: Tyler wrote: >Ozma, no doubt, uses the perfect operating system that does everything... Ozma: Yes, I use an Amiga! :) GARDNER: Thanks for the review, David! I'm about halfway through, and I admit that I'm enjoying it. CD-ROM: A 3D Ozzy CD-ROM game?? My heart is racing! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "What is Reality anyway...? Nothin' but a collective *hunch*!" -- Lily Tomlin ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 24 - 25, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:17:10 -0400 From: Lisa Mastroberte X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-23-98 > > In response to J.L.'s plaintive comment about not being able to see what the > pre-tin Nick Chopper looked like, I've scanned the color plate and placed it > on my web site at > > http://www.smu.edu/~gbirrell/nick.html > > --Gordon Birrell I don't know....I like Nick as a tin man better. -lisa ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:57:27 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-23-98 Return-receipt-to: "Jeremy Steadman" << The Wicked Witch of the East doesn't seem to be completely wicked if she quickly glued Ku-Klip's finger back on [222]. Of course, she might see value in keeping the tinsmith at work, but this is just the sort of low-level helpful magic that a good village witch like Tattypoo would do. >> But Tattypoo isn't the good witch of the east--I don't think . . . (She's the North, isn't she?) Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== From: Sduffley@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:04:38 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-23-98 More on copyrights ... those who yawn at the mere mention of this subject are advised immediately to skip on to the next Digest entry! > Tyler Jones, Ruth Berman, et al: The recent discussions here on the Digest concerning copyright law piqued my curiosity enough to make me cross-reference the bill for "The Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act" (S.505, approved by Congress and now awaiting the President's signature) against existing copyright law (17 U.S.C. sec. 301 et seq., for those who care). Here's a quick summary of the impact of some of the amendments: (1) Works created on or after 1/1/78: (a) general rule: copyright protection exists from "creation" (when the work is first fixed in hard copy) and continues for the life of the author plus 70 years; (b) joint works: protection runs with the life of the last surviving author plus 70 years; (c) anonymous, pseudonymous, and "works made for hire" (i.e., where the "author" is not an individual -- e.g., IWOC retains author rights on "The Ozmapolitan of Oz"): protection for the shorter of 95 years from first publication OR 120 years from creation. Note that the above provisions eliminate the need for a renewal through a formal filing with the Copyright Office, and the attendant dangers of inadvertent loss of copyright (what apparently happened with the last few titles of RPT's contributions to the FF). (2) Works under copyright protection as of 1/1/78 (the main focus of Digest discussions) -- this area is somewhat messy because of the overlap between provisions of prior law that extended copyright protection for a first term of 28 years, but permitted a renewal (through a filing with the Copyright Office) for a second term of 47 years. (a) Works in their first term on 1/1/78, regardless of whether copyright was originally held by an individual author or was a "work for hire": protection MAY be extended for a term of 67 years through a renewal with the Copyright Office. The filing may be done by the individual author, if still living; by the author's heirs; or by the proprieter of the copyright, in the case of a corporation or employer. (b) Works in their renewal term or registered for renewal before 1/1/78: any copyright still in its renewal stage at the time of the effective date of the new Act (obviously not yet determined, because the President hasn't signed the Bill) will enjoy protection for 95 years from the date of the original copyright. -- This covers much of RPT's canon. Ruth Berman was correct in stating that "Cowardly Lion" will be protected until 2018, and RPT's other books not in public domain will expire successively after that. Of course, if the Presidents delays in signing the Act until 1999, Cowy's copyright will already have expired in 1998; thus, this book will be public domain and unaffected by the new law. Quite the "summary", huh? That's what happens when a lawyer gets involved. And now, in true lawyerly fashion, a major caveat is necessary: the above is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to constitute legal advice. Obviously, I haven't covered all the wrinkles and permutations of the Bill. Anyone in need of formal legal advice is strongly encouraged to consult a qualified legal professional. My final two cents (I promise): obviously, it's much cheaper for a publisher (Books of Wonder, for example) to publish works that are in the public domain, because no cost-sharing arrangement is then necessary with an author. From what I understand, RPT enjoyed meager royalties on her Oz books; it seems fitting that her heirs share some portion of sales proceeds if there are future color plate editions in the works ... Hopefully, passage of the Copyright Term Extension Act won't discourage BOW from adding to its list of quality Oz publications. ... And for budding Oz authors out there, look on the bright side: (1) there is ample public domain Oz material already out there for you to draw on; (2) you could always request permission from the copyright-holder if you absolutely need to use a particular protected character (of course, you might have to work out a royalty sharing agreement); and (3) your own original work will be protected for even longer! Sean Duffley ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:10:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Steadman Reply-To: kivel99@planetall.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-98 Oz on Earth: I've gone both ways in my thinking about whether Oz is on this planet, in an undiscovered region, or in another dimension. Now I do recognize the need to ask why Oz doesn't show up on our maps if it's on this planet, in this dimension. I do lean toward a slight dimensional slip being needed to get there. > Well, if she isn't she won't hear you . . . I think people with mail circulation problems should get a secondary e-mail address, like my Yahoo address I'm using now, and use that as a last resort. That does require them to have Web access, of course ... Well, no solution's perfect. By the way, what has anyone heard about Tritium.net, a "free" Inernet service that gets its income from ads? I got as far as registering, then they went on hiatus while they updated their systems. But I ahve it on the good word of several computer experts that it's worthwhile, so I don't know. Until next time, Jeremy Steadman kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ---------- ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Oct 98 11:00:53 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things SEAN DUFFLEY: Thanks for your analysis of the copyright law...I'll add it to the Copyright file in my Oz File Archive. GARDNER'S BOOK: Well, I finished _Visitors From Oz_...To avoid any more "spoilers", I will review it on Tyler's review page rather than on the Digest. I'll just say that while not any _magnum opus_ of literature, I found it very enjoyable, and I think other Oz fans who are open to a few minor deviations from Baum-Thompson dogma will likely enjoy it as well... As for recommending it for kids, I'm not sure...There *is* mild violence, but as has been pointed out it is of the "cartoon" variety, no worse than the most violent of Baum. This book is a bit more "street smart" than the FF books, that may be of concern, but then maybe that's to be expected if our Ozzy heroes are going to visit NY. And as has also been pointed out, the "D"-word is there (also the "C"-word), but then again it's also in some episodes of _Faerie Tale Theatre_... So I guess I'd say, "Not for children under 8; and for over 8, I'd give the usual admonition, "Parental discretion is advised" ... I guess I just don't find the idea of a "Rated PG" Oz book as unforgivable as some Oz fans might, and I certainly would rather kids read this book than any of the large number of total hippikaloric that's out there... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "What is Reality anyway...? Nothin' but a collective *hunch*!" -- Lily Tomlin ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 26 - 28, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 15:47:21 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-25-98 Return-receipt-to: "Jeremy Steadman" Liking Old Tin Best: We prefer the "old" and familiar Nick Chopper because we're most familiar with him as he is as a Tin Man. If we knew him first as a flesh person, who knows what we'd prefer. Copywrong? It all depends on whether the system is going to favor the author or readers. (And how long the author lives--if my grandmother, fairly healthy at 103, had written something at, say, 30, that'd be much different than Baum, who just wrote Oz for the last 20 years of his life.) Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:18:20 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: TIN WOODMAN OF OZ art Content-Disposition: inline A small bookstore that calls its children's section Yellow Brick Road just opened a mile from my house. I checked it out yesterday, hoping for an antiquarian cabinet or at least an Oz fan behind the counter. But no. There was one Oz title in the store, a modern WIZARD. There were no Books of Wonder reissues. The stock seemed haphazardly chosen and was awkwardly presented. And, despite what PUBLISHERS WEEKLY and AMERICAN BOOKSELLER have been saying for years about how to compete with the chains, this shop presented no specialty or personality to make itself stand out. My town has three superstores and another three or four just one city border away [all carrying BoW reprints, and some Emerald City Press titles as well]. I doubt I'll have a chance to cajole this proprietor into a proper children's-book selection before he goes under. Thanks, Dave Hulan, for the review of Gardner's VISITORS. I'm resolutely ignoring your remarks since I've ordered a copy. I'll gladly go back to what you posted after I'm done reading. Atticus Gannaway wrote: <> I find it interesting that Baum was hand-writing manuscripts as late as MAGIC because there's a *typed* scrap of manuscript attributed to him (published in BEST OF BUGLE, 1965-66). Does anyone know if Baum used a typewriter before or after these two titles? I can't shake the feeling that scrap's style makes it more likely to have come from one of Baum's sons--even though, if it were the father's, it would bolster my theory about how he used maps in his later books. Dave Hulan wrote <>; depending on the provenance of the manuscripts Atticus has access to, that might also be evidence this scrap was produced after L. Frank's death. Steve Teller wrote: <> Interesting that TIN WOODMAN would be a [the?] title Golden licensed. It was also the only Oz book in which Reilly & Lee replaced all its original illustrations with new ones, by Dale Urey, in 1955. I presume it was one of the firm's better-selling titles because its title appealed to readers who (like me) enjoyed the tin man in WIZARD. That might have made R&L more willing to invest in finding it new readers. Ruth Berman wrote: <> The Wizard speaks only of the heart, not about other things Nick would need to make it loving, and certainly not about needing a soldering iron. But seriously, I have a hard time seeing sexual content in Baum's Oz stories. He was a child of the Victorian period, and although he was progressive in presenting sex roles, he seems shy about even hinting at sexual relations. (I find more inklings of those in Thompson, a Victorian child but a Jazz-Age adult.) That's why I can't sign onto sexual passion as what distinguishes a loving heart from a kind one in Baum's terms. Yet it's also why I have no difficulty arguing that the most loving person in TIN WOODMAN is the Scarecrow. He's so fond of Nick Chopper that he spends his days at the man's house, just sitting with him. He undertakes a long and difficult journey with no likely benefit to himself, just so his pal can satisfy a whim. He even lets much of his body be fed to a wild beast in order to move Nick a few feet closer to his goal. We should all be so lucky to inspire love like that. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I didn't mean to bring up this issue again, just to set the context for my analysis of Woot's character. That said, Tip also appeared in only one book, and he truly did disappear at the end. Woot's "special status," in comparison, is that Baum assures us he *does* exist and is wandering Oz. Perhaps I ask too much in assuming that folks who want to create a publishable story set in Baum's Oz would read TIN WOODMAN--a book about a major Ozian that's never been out of print. I suspect Tip's appeal stems somewhat from what we know of his character (he's more fun on his own than Woot, that's certain), and mostly from his suddenly being taken away from us. Which leads to these questions: Do people writing new Oz stories primarily want to extend favorite characters (e.g., how can Ozma have fun)? Or to explore particular story premises (what if Chiss met the Loons)? Or to explain glitches in the books (are Lulea and Lurline the same lady)? Or to fill gaps (why have no Mexicans gone to Oz)? I suspect we may have all these motivations in varying amounts. Here are some comments about John R. Neill's black-and-white art in TIN WOODMAN. (As I've plaintively mentioned, my edition's not colorized.) I saw two differences in how Neill went about making these illustrations compared to the preceding four Oz books: 1) Since TIK-TOK the b/w drawings within the text have all been chapter openers, chapter closers, or full-page (or -spread) art. In this book Neill also go back to supplying art within the chapters, each filling 3/5 of a page. I suspect those drawings meant this book required a little more time in layout than previous titles. 2) For the first time since TIK-TOK, Neill doesn't use those graying patterns we've discussed: parallel lines and mottled ink. Instead, he shades everything by hand. That, too, might indicate he had more time to work on this book than he had on earlier Oz books. Is there any indication from R&B correspondence or the Copyright Office that Baum delivered the TIN WOODMAN manuscript earlier in the year than he had delivered his previous four books? Comments on individual TIN WOODMAN drawings-- copyright page: Obviously no Loon would be pleased to meet a man with a sharp sword! That sword and the two columns of buttons indicate this tin man in Captain Fyter, even though he's wearing Nick Chopper's funnel hat. The soldier might well encounter Loons while patrolling the Gillikin Country. 87: This intriguing picture of Woot sipping from Mrs. Yoop's coffee cup is (a) a how-to for second-degree burns; (b) at a different scale from how large Woot appears on pages 76-77 and 79. Nice picture, though. 119, 121, 131: Each of these illustrations shows one of our heroes in his or her true shape although in the story they're still a canary, a green monkey, and a straw bear. The picture of Woot is most likely to be a mistake in picture placement, not drawing. 127: Doesn't this dragon look like Agnes in GIANT HORSE? Did anyone besides Neill draw dragons like this? 171: This is one of my favorite illustrations. Nice composition on first look, fine characterization of Ozma and Woot the monkey when you know the story and look more carefully. A museum in Philadelphia has a Dutch painting called something like VENUS IN AN ANTIQUE SHOP that presents a similar juxtaposition of beauty and monkey. 178: I've mentioned the drawings of Ozma and Woot that Neill based on previous work. This picture of Jinjur looks stylistically different enough from the rest of TIN WOODMAN's art to make me hypothesize there was an earlier version of it, too. 184: I suspect this picture of a rabbit was meant to go on page 270, showing the Blue Rabbit instead of (as its placement implies) a rabbit in Jinjur's garden. [Unless, of course, this rabbit belongs to the Golden Book version of the Magic Picture.] 201, 251: Neill gives Woot back the knapsack he left in Yoop Castle [110]. 246: Neill's depiction of the Hip-po-gy-raf seems much more dinosaur-like than Baum's description. Not that for little boys there's anything wrong with that! Fortunately, if the beast's a dinosaur, it's a plant-eater. 285: This artwork also appears on page 45, which I think is the only repetition in this book. Its dimensions and the thickness of the line make me think Neill meant it as a small chapter-opener on this page. Gordon Birrell wrote: <> Thanks, Gordon! If I get real, *real* plaintive, could you get me easier Web access, too? Speaking of things technological: Ken Cope, does your work mean I may actually be tempted to play a computer game? I'll watch developments closely. Tyler Jones wrote: <> The Santa Claus we meet in ROAD and even LIFE & ADVENTURES is almost totally a 19th-century figure. There were earlier legendary wintertime gift-givers, but they weren't nearly so jolly. Saint Nicholas, bishop of Myra and patron saint of choirboys, lived in the 4th century. Dave Hardenbrook reported: <> Like bouillon? J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:56:37 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-Disposition: inline Steve: While the adventure with Mrs. Yoop is an IE in the sense that it does not advance the plot, it is relevant in that a lot happens there. It's not your run-of-the-mill blowing into a strange city where the inhabitants try to enslave you and you manage to escape just in time to get to the NEXT strange city... Jinjur's house is important in that it is the resolution of the Mrs. Yoop adventure. Ruth: _Cowardly Lion_ was due to go Public Domain in January of 1999, so that will now be pushed to 2019. _Kabumpo_ went PD this year, so it's status is unknown. The bill may have been retroactive for this year only. David Hulan: I've read your story twice. After Chris panned it in a letter to me, I went back over it and used a fine-toothed comb to search for any inaccuracies, in and out of the FF. I must report that I found none. Incognito: The trio in _Tin Woodman_ could easily have tramped through the green country and avoided both EC and the Gilikin country, or just skirted the border. It's a weak device, since as David Hulan pointed out, Ozma could look in the magic picture at any time anyway, and that does, in fact happen. David Goodwin (So many David's on the digest. I'm still one-of-a-kind :-) ) Yes, this issue (and probably every other issue as well) has been rehashed many times. It's still important to discuss it from time to time. It allows newbies to catch up and it forces old hands like me to re-examine our beliefs and see if they stand the test of time. I place Dorothy at age six at the time of the _Wizard_. As you suggest, many six-year-olds today probably would not be up to an adventure, but as an orphaned farm girl in turn-of-century Kansas, she's grown up at the school of hard knocks. I also put a six-year gap from _Wizard_ (1899) to _Emerald City_ (1905). My assumptions are that Dorothy is six at the time of _Wizard_ (see above) and that her visits to Oz have slowed her aging down by one year. At the end, she is physically 11 by the time she moves to Oz permanently. For other reasons (which I can't remember), we've decided that the earthquake in _Dot&Wiz_ cannot be the big one of '06. Maybe David Hulan can explain it more thoroughly. You can check out what I currently think are the dates of occurence for these Oz books on my web page at http://tyler1.apprentice.com The cases of Peter and Speedy are easier to clarify. THey both have adventures that are five books apart (and we can assume five years). Their actions and attitude could easily represent most boys from ages 9 to 14, so they only discrepancy we really have to make is the statement of Peter's age. I usually write that off as a sloppy error, since what little empirical evidence we have indicates that time in Oz and the real world move at about the same rate. Nathan: Woot's ignorance of the nobody-can-die rule serves to make me believe that the effect is of fairly recent origin, and not something that happened centuries ago when Lurline enchanted Oz. John Bell: The magical land may not have fully consistent laws of magic and physics, or perhaps they fluctuate slowly over time. It's also possible that there are several different bands of fairies, each with their own powers, rules and responsibilities. Jeremy: True, Tattypoo is not the Good Witch of the East (you'll have to read Shanower's _Blue Witch of Oz_), but I believe John Bell was comparing motives. That is, Tattypoo was as likely to perform such services for her people as the Wicked Witch of the East. Jeremy again: For myself, I now ascribe to Dave Hardenbrook's theory. This theory says that Oz IS on Earth, but not OUR Earth. It's on a parallel earth that has magical lands, so that Dorothy is indeed from Kansas, just not the one that we know. There may even be a Butterfield in that Kansas. Sean: Thanks for the info regarding patents. My guess is that _Cowy_ is protected. Whatever else I may believe about Clinton, he does sign bills quickly, and he has indicated that he is in favor of this one. What would really be cool would be to stage an event where people could show up on the White House lawn as their favorite copyrighted character. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:56:00 GMT From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-23 & 25-98 No real excuse for having two Digests to reply to today, other than not being in the mood to reply (though I did read the 10/23 Digest on Saturday when it showed up in my mailbox) on the weekend. 10/23: Atticus: I thought I remembered your reporting on the MS of TW a while back, but couldn't remember what you'd said. David Godwin: I discussed Dorothy's age some in my post of 10/23. There is good textual evidence, if you accept RPT as authoritative, that Dorothy is 11. In _Giant Horse_ Philador says "I like being ten, so I've been ten ever so long." Trot declares, "So have I." (p.208). In _Lost Princess_ Baum says, "Betsy was a year older than Dorothy and Trot was a year younger," (p.18) so if Trot is ten then Dorothy is eleven. Of course, Trot could have been younger at the time of LP than she was in GH, but that seems unlikely; the lack of aging of the mortal children in Oz seems to be established as a constant. An age of 11 for Dorothy is also consistent with the statement in TW that Ozma appears about 14 or 15 and Dorothy much younger. You also bring up the question of the earthquake in _DotWiz_. We discussed this at some length a year or so ago, and I at least am firmly convinced that it was _not_ the 1906 San Francisco quake. Dorothy left San Francisco early enough to have had luncheon on the train (p.73), and the train wasn't due into Hugson's siding until midnight (p.13) even if it hadn't been delayed by earthquakes. That's a minimum of 12 hours travel, and even a milk train (which this one probably was) will certainly average 20 mph or so, which puts Hugson's Siding nearer Santa Barbara than San Francisco - and that area, while it no doubt felt the 1906 quake, wouldn't have suffered damage from it. Since there's no reason to set _DotWiz_ in 1906, I prefer to set it in the spring of 1902 (assuming _Wizard_ took place in 1899). I believe the events of _Road_ occurred in August of the same year, and most likely those of _Emerald City_ occurred in October of that year. I base that on a couple of things: the bank probably would choose to foreclose at the point where they knew that Uncle Henry's harvest wasn't going to be profitable enough for him to make a sufficient payment for at least another year, and if Ozma brought Dorothy to one of her birthday parties she'd probably want to bring her to all of them, so there's unlikely to be more than one August 21 at any time between _Ozma_, when Ozma and Dorothy met, and _Emerald City_. I date _Ozma_ in September-October 1901 because big storms tend to happen most often near equinoxes, and we know Dorothy spent several months but less than a whole year in Australia. Also, notice that in _Emerald City_ Dorothy and others don't refer to "airplanes," but "airships"; my belief (Neill's drawing at the head of the last chapter notwithstanding) is that the reference is to dirigibles, which were invented in the late 1880s (IIRC - certainly well before 1900) and fit the references (like sometimes going where the pilot wanted them to and sometimes not) better than heavier-than-air craft. As for Peter, we've also discussed this point and I think most people agree that from internal evidence he's almost certainly 14 or 15 in _Gnome King_; the citation of his age as 11 was either a typo by R&L or a change that was made to make it easier for the children reading the book to identify with him. Throughout the book he acts more like a teen than an 11-year-old, and he also refers to being a Boy Scout, which had a minimum age of 12 at the time GK was written. Tyler: >Does anybody know how far >back the legends of Santa Claus go? In anything like its current form, probably not as early as 1200 CE. St. Nicholas, who provided the name, goes back much earlier (I seem to recall Anatolia in the 3d or 4th century), but the Father Christmas version we're familiar with (and that jibes with Baum's version) is, IIRC, probably no earlier than 17th century, and originated in the Netherlands. It arrived in the US via the Nieuw Amsterdam colony and in Britain through Dutch traders also in the 1600s. But this is a dragging up of very old memories and could easily be wrong. >I mentioned you FAQ (and gave her your URL), then did some measuring on my >Oz maps. The YBR is about 42.3% of the length of Oz, running from the >eastern end of the Munchkin Country to the edge of the green country. >Firing up my calculator, I got 38 miles. This ties in nicely with Ken >Shepherds chronology, which placed Dorothy's original journey at six days. >A little over six miles a day is a good workout for a six-year old girl >(quite a lot sixes, eh?), with ample time for rests, eating, and other >adventures. Six miles a day isn't much for a healthy 6-year-old farm girl, imho, even with a lot of adventures along the way. And my own calculations indicate it's more like 50 miles. However, there are a lot of discrepancies in the books reflecting distances in Oz; in _Road_, for instance, the travelers cover the distance from the desert to the EC via the Tin Woodman's castle in two days, and one of the travelers is a very young Button-Bright. I think this is so unlikely that I believe that several nights on the road must have been elided because nothing of consequence happened. Ken Cope: Just let us know then the CD-ROM will be available. I imagine it's only going to be compatible with (blech!) Windoze, but I have one of those computers as well (even though I only use it when Absolutely Necessary), so I can still enjoy it. 10/25: Jeremy: I think John was only using Tattypoo (as characterized in _Giant Horse_) as an example of a good witch who didn't do anything very spectacular, but just used her magic to help people in minor but useful ways. It seems to me that Oz is either (a) in a parallel world, or (b) on our earth, but magically separated from the rest of it so that only through magic of some sort can you get there from here. To me, this is a distinction without a difference. If you limit your authority to Baum either is approximately equally likely; if you include Thompson then I think the former is strongly favored. In _Ozma_ Dorothy was swept off a ship on its way to Australia and drifted to Ev in a day or so, meaning the Ozian continent, if it's on our earth, must be in the Pacific. In _Pirates_ Peter was swept off a ship off Cape Hatteras (i.e. in the North Atlantic) and swam to Octagon Island, which is no more than a couple of days' sail from Ev, which means that either Peter is the champion swimmer of all time or the Ozian continent is in the Atlantic. Dave: Actually, I think the violence in _Visitors_ is considerably less than some in Baum. _Wizard_ has a lot more violence than _Visitors_ (all the animals Nick hacked up, the lion's killing the spider, the Kalidahs' falling into the chasm, the winged monkeys battering up the Tin Woodman and scattering the Scarecrow's straw, the melting of the WWW), and even later books have a good deal of it, like the Nome King's slicing up his subjects, or Toto eating the children of Bunbury, or the destruction of the Gargoyle country, or the Wizard's slicing the Sorcerer in half, or Inga's killing the giant in the Nome King's trick caverns...lots of other examples if I put my mind to it. As for the language, maybe I've read more contemporary children's books than you have; it's pretty tame by comparison. The "F" word (the one dealing with flatulence, not sex) turns up all the time, for instance. My only reservation about giving or reading _Visitors_ to children of any age would be with regard to a lot of fairly esoteric mathematical and literary references that seem to me rather over the heads of anyone younger than the teen years. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 15:53:28 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Reply-To: Ruth A Berman Subject: ozzy digest Nathan DeHoff: As to how Langwidere could get additional heads from other women before she already had heads to trade with -- Back when "Ozma" was the book under discussion, I suggested that she might have started by making heads of candy, bread, or wood (such as the Monarch of Mo tried), and used those to trade with (no one would like to accept such a bargain, but she might have used threats, or offers of wealth, to get agreement). More gruesomely, she might have found women dying or sentenced to death, and might have got them to agree to a sale in return for benefits to the near-and-dear. She would probably be much too Languid to undertake something as strenuous as taking heads by simple force. David Hulan: Thanks for the review of Gardner's "Visitors." Interesting comments. I still haven't seen it in the stores here, but expect to find it next time the schedule makes it convenient to get over to Uncle Hugo's or Dreamhaven. Lisa Mastroberte: Nick seems to like himself better as a tin man, too. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: "Jim Vander Noot" Cc: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" Subject: RE: CD Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:02:25 -0500 Importance: Normal Ian, I haven't seen that. I'll forward your message to the Ozzy Digest in hopes that one of the readers will know. Sincerely, Jim Vander Noot The International Wizard of Oz Club http://www.ozclub.org -----Original Message----- From: DodKalm24@aol.com [mailto:DodKalm24@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, October 24, 1998 6:34 PM Subject: CD I'm really looking for the soundtrack CD to The Return to Oz. Do you supply it or have any suggestions as to where to find it? Thanks Ian ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Oct 98 12:38:12 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Reply-To: Ruth A Berman Subject: ozzy digest ps J.L. Bell mentioned the "Bugle" article pointing out that both the portrait of "Woot in court dress" and the "To My Readers" illo of Ozma were redrawn from illos Neill had done earlier for a magazine article. With a little difficulty (Fred Otto's index to the "Bugle" gives only limited subject-heading listings), I found it again to look at. The (unsigned) article is "The Adaptable Mr. Neill," Autumn 1981, and the pair of drawings in their earlier versions illustrated an article on (of all things!) "Children Who Kill Themselves" from the "Sunday Magazine," a newspaper supplement syndicated to several newspapers, May 7, 1916. J.L. also mentioned Woot's love of coffee. The same issue of the "Bugle" had Mary E. Schaller's "Food for Thought" article on food in Oz, She pointed out that both Woot in "Tin Woodman" and Dorothy in "Ozma" relish coffee -- and quoted from the "To Please a Child" bio of Baum on his own love for coffee. He liked to have several cups a day, "strong enough to float a spoon on." Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:19:38 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-98 Tyler: Zurline is the queen of the wood nymphs. That is, "dryads," not fairies. David: The ending of _Visitors from Oz_ sounds just like _Pee-wee's Big Adventure_. I still cannot find this book. Every bookstore I went to did not have it, though it was listed among the new releases in the newspaper several weeks ago. I think Indianapolis must hat non-MGM Oz the same way it hates Woody Allen. Dave: _Tip of Oz_ has that D-word and that C-word. According to the dictionary, that c-word means a loss at dice, and it is not considered vulgar, nor is the d-word. Scott ======================================= Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:02:26 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-98 [For anyone still wondering about the _Razzle Dazzle Show_, try pasting this into the URL of your web browser... -- Dave] http://us.imdb.com/Title?%22Hudson+Brothers+Razzle+Dazzle+Show,+The%22+(1974) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:15:51 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz All: Everyone is free to send me reviews of Books of Wonder Books now that I have expanded my section. I appreciate reviews of any Oz book, although I don't know if I want to have reviews of the FF. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Oct 98 17:58:43 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DAVID H.: Thanks for your review of _Visitors_...I take your point about violence in it vs. in the FF... TYLER: I will send you some reviews when I get a chance... OZ CD-ROM: It would be funny if it came out in the summer of 2000 -- That's when the grapevine says the _Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ CD-ROM game will come out... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "What is Reality anyway...? Nothin' but a collective *hunch*!" -- Lily Tomlin ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 29 - 30, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:06:25 -0600 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David Frank Godwin) Subject: Oz via quake My thanks and gratitude to David and Tyler for their kind and informative responses to my query about Dorothy's age. I confess that I was prejudiced in favor of the 1906 earthquake in DotWiz because I cheated and checked out the following website: http://www-socal.wr.usgs.gov/cahist-eqs.html ...which lists major earthquakes in California for quite some time back. According to their list, there was nothing in 1902 and not much in 1903 (a couple of hard shakes around San Jose, but nothing strong enough to open a fissure). But you are absolutely right, David, in pointing out that Dorothy was well south of SF (and San Jose for that matter) when the big one occurred. Could this have been a local event that went unrecorded? Or is this more evidence for the parallel earth theory? In regard to the question of Dorothy's aging being somewhat slowed down by visits to Oz: If you do not think that Dorothy's growing suddenly older when she returned to California in _Lost King_ was some sort of anomaly or a spasm of fantasizing on the part of RPT, then there could be no retardation of Dorothy's age caused by her visits to Oz. She would revert to her chonological age every time she returned to the Outside World. Or was this a one-time occurrence - and if so, why? (Once again, I imagine this nit has already been picked more than once.) OTOH, there is some slight evidence that Dorothy was the same apparent age after settling in Oz as she was in WWiz! It says in _Tin Woodman_ that Dorothy "seemed just the same sweet little girl she had been when _first_ she came to this delightful fairyland" (emphasis mine). That's a bag of worms I prefer not to open. The easiest way out is to assume that LFB meant for his readers to understand "for good" at the end of the sentence. BTW, however old Zeb was, it wasn't very old. Would you, as a responsible parent, send a child of that age in a horse-drawn carriage to pick up a passenger at the train depot late at night during an earthquake? Would you not then worry about him sufficiently to go after him when he'd stayed gone all night? Maybe they lacked the means? Maybe I'm still thinking in 1998 standards rather than crediting the more self-reliant rural children of 1900-1910. Another BTW, how is LFB supposed to have gotten his information about Oz prior to ECOz when they started communicating by wireless? From Dorothy? Or did he commute to the EC? He was into Theosophy for a while, was he not? Now I'm thinking of how Ignatius Donnelly described Atlantis in minute detail merely by using psychic intuition or astral traveling or some such (rather unreliable, to say the least) technique. That would explain some of the discrepancies between earlier and later books. ;-) And someone told me recently that Edgar Cayce, the "Sleeping Prophet" of Virginia Beach, had visions of prehistoric continents that included Atlantis, Mu - and Oz! Please excuse the long meandering post, but I've just discovered the Ozzy Digest and I haven't wound down yet! - David Godwin (ahem - _not_ "Goodwin") :-) Still another BTW & PS: Seriously, if there are so many Davids in this group that it's becoming confusing, I'm perfectly willing to adopt some other name. In high school, some people called me Moe. I have no idea why. At a series of jobs I had some time ago, it was just dg. Now some of my friends call me Devil (it's a long story). I'd better stay away from that one; wouldn't want to give the Digest the reputation of being a Satanic cult. How about if I just go by... - dg ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:48:04 -0500 From: Lisa Mastroberte X-Accept-Language: en Subject: For Oz Digest David: I would think that Dorothy would be older at the time of _Wizard_. Think about it, would a five year old be running around with a dog and be brave enough to ride a lion? I wouldn't be. Heck, I don't think I would want to ride a lion even now. Lisa Mastroberte --------- "There's not a word yet for old friends who just met." ### Gonzo in the "Muppet Movie" ### ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:53:43 -0800 From: Steve Teller Subject: Ozzy Matters ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:52:14 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz, copyright, and TIN WOODMAN Content-Disposition: inline Sean Duffley wrote: <> Thanks for the analysis, Sean. Non-Ozian constitutional question: Could the President delay signing a bill for that long now that Congress is adjourning without performing a pocket veto? No doubt that will soon be moot, as the straw bear might say while standing on his head and looking at the green monkey in a mirror. On the new copyright law, Jeremy Steadman wrote: <> Creators will enjoy copyrights for life, but they have those under the current system. The added benefit will come to their descendants, in most cases their grandchildren (the term grows from 50 years to 70 years after the creator's death), or to their corporate employers. In my opinion, the public (including other authors) will suffer from the freezing of the public domain. But I've written that before, and even my very own Congressman said we'd have to disagree. I wrote what I hope is my first book in 1993. Three of my grandparents are in their late 80s, so if I live to 85 as they have, that means my text will be under copyright until the year 2120, or for 127 years. That's the equivalent of LITTLE MEN or MIDDLEMARCH or THE DESCENT OF MAN coming into the public domain this year. Talk about your deathless prose! Only Japanese corporations and Zager & Evans make plans for 2121. On sources of magic, Tyler Jones wrote: <> I think this is certainly true. Baum uses the term "fairies" for both a specific sort of immortal and for nearly all immortals, the way the term "Yankee" can expand and contract depending on how close the user is to Aroostock, Maine. (Awwthehabowt.) On Gardner's VISITORS, Scott Hutchins wrote: <> Ironic, in that Indianapolis is the site of at least two national publishers' warehouses. I don't recall if St. Martin's is among them. Keep looking! The book does exist. I received my copy yesterday. In the dwindling TIN WOODMAN conversation, I'm grateful to Ruth Berman for tracking down that Autumn 1981 BUGLE article on the recycled Woot and Ozma pictures. Their original subject was "Children Who Kill Themselves"?! It's a measure of how disturbing that topic is that I'd misremembered the article as about children who were merely missing. Jeremy Steadman wrote: <> Yes. When I wrote, "this is just the sort of low-level helpful magic that a good village witch like Tattypoo would do," I didn't mean Ku-Klip should have hiked all the way to the Good Witch of the North to fix his dislocated finger. I meant only that in this interaction the Wicked Witch of the East didn't seem especially wicked. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:31:34 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-28-98 Return-receipt-to: "Jeremy Steadman" Scrap writing: So, in other words, the Patchwork Girl, Scraps, was the means by which Baum first wrote his books? >>Dave Hardenbrook reported: >> <> >>Like bouillon? No, just another soupy mix. Languid Deer: So things are finally coming to a head? Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:56:43 -0500 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy math puzzle. Trot, Dorothy, and Betsy were sitting around the palace one day, when Dorothy declared, "you know, the square of my age is equal to one more than your ages mulitpled together." "True, " said Betsy, "and yours is the only one of us whose age is prime." Trot chimed in, "But between the three of us, we have multiples of all the prime numbers from one to eleven" "Not so, dear," corrected Dorothy, "There is no multiple of seven here." Betsy replied, "but that's only because you have slowed down your aging, Dorothy, and so only aged 3 years in the past 6, otherwise there would be a multiple of 7 (although not eleven), and you would be the oldest here instead of me." "Right," said Dorothy, "6 years ago I was twice Trot's age, and I was the same age as you, dear Betsy, two years ago. But if I continue to age at only half a year per year while you two do not, than Trot shall be my age in 2 years. How old are Dorothy, Trot and Betsy? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:27:58 GMT From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-28-98 Jeremy: >Copywrong? >It all depends on whether the system is going to favor the author or >readers. More accurately, whether it's going to favor the author's heirs or readers. 75 years from original publication is very rarely going to run out before the author's death. J.L.: >Dave >Hulan wrote <>; >depending on the provenance of the manuscripts Atticus has access to, that >might also be evidence this scrap was produced after L. Frank's death. I'd think the MSS would probably have been with R&B/L rather than in Baum's own papers, but I don't know. (I know the original MS of _Glass Cat_ is still with ECP, anyhow; I'd assume that that would be standard practice, but I don't know. Well, it's with ECP if it still exists; for all I know it doesn't. Of course, I still have it on my computer and could recreate it in a couple of hours...) > Which leads to these questions: Do >people writing new Oz stories primarily want to extend favorite characters >(e.g., how can Ozma have fun)? Or to explore particular story premises >(what if Chiss met the Loons)? Or to explain glitches in the books (are >Lulea and Lurline the same lady)? Or to fill gaps (why have no Mexicans >gone to Oz)? I suspect we may have all these motivations in varying >amounts. I've written books for all of those reasons, though the only one that's been published was almost entirely for your first two reasons - I wanted to give the Glass Cat a book of her own, and I wanted to explore what would happen if a sympathetic character had the use of "pyrzqxgl." Tyler: >I also put a six-year gap from _Wizard_ (1899) to _Emerald City_ (1905). My >assumptions are that Dorothy is six at the time of _Wizard_ (see above) and >that her visits to Oz have slowed her aging down by one year. At the end, >she is physically 11 by the time she moves to Oz permanently. I can accept your dating, though as I said in my last post I prefer to place _Emerald City_ even earlier, so that Dorothy can be 8 or 9 in _Wizard_ - which seems more consistent with her behavior in that book. But then, I'm not trying to wedge in the Random Housies and a bunch of other post-FF books. Do we ever have a statement of Speedy's age? In _Yellow Knight_ he seems rather older than 9; his attitude to Marygolden seems to indicate that his hormones are beginning to activate, though not at a teen level. I'd put him at 11 or 12. And he seems even older in _Speedy_ than Peter does in _Pirates_; 16 or 17 wouldn't be unreasonable. Thompson used teen heroes fairly often (Pompa for sure - his age is given as 18 - and Tatters and Randy by implication, since both are married or on their way to it by the ends of _Grampa_ and _Silver Princess_ respectively), so it wouldn't be unreasonable. >Jeremy again: >For myself, I now ascribe to Dave Hardenbrook's theory. This theory says >that Oz IS on Earth, but not OUR Earth. It's on a parallel earth that has >magical lands, so that Dorothy is indeed from Kansas, just not the one that >we know. There may even be a Butterfield in that Kansas. How do you reconcile _Ozma_ and _Pirates_, then? Which ocean links with the Nonestic? Me: For some reason when writing about Peter's age I inadvertently referred to _Gnome King_ twice when I meant _Pirates_. My apologies. Jim: I can't help Ian, but I didn't even know there _was_ a soundtrack CD of _Return to Oz_. Has anybody seen one? I don't remember one in Bill Beem's extensive collection of Ozian recordings, but then I wasn't looking for one. Scott H.: Since I have no idea what happened in _Pee-Wee's Big Adventure_ I don't now how it compared with the ending of _Visitors from Oz_. When you're talking about dice, "crap" isn't vulgar - it refers to rolling a 2, 3, or 12 on your first roll or a 7 on any other roll in a series. But in any other context it's vulgar, though not obscene. Like "bull" when you're not referring to a male animal, or "butt" when you're referring to an anatomical part and not, say, a stubbed cigarette. Dave: >TYLER: >I will send you some reviews when I get a chance... Send him one of _Glass Cat_, if you would. I hate to have Chris's scurrilous one the only one available on-line. I don't know whether you liked GC or not (though I hope you did), but at least I know you'd be fair. David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-28-98 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:09:18 PST J. L. Bell: >Interesting that TIN WOODMAN would be a [the?] title Golden licensed. Actually, a Golden Books edition of _Emerald City_ was available at a Munchkin Convention auction a few years back. I remember that it had a picture of a white (not green) Emerald City on the front, and that the Nome King was nowhere to be found. Tyler: >My >assumptions are that Dorothy is six at the time of _Wizard_ (see >above) and >that her visits to Oz have slowed her aging down by one year. Wouldn't Aunt Em and Uncle Henry have noticed it if Dorothy had aged more slowly than usual? I suppose they could have just seen her as a slow grower. Still, I think that the lack of aging only occurred while Dorothy was actually in Oz, and I don't think that she stayed in full year within the first five books. -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:31:32 -0500 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Content-Disposition: inline Ah Mr. Bell. That is exactly why all of the interesting book stores are going under. People shop at the chains because they can save a few bucks. Eventually we will pay for this in terms of book variety. Some day in the future there will be stores that offer only ten new books each month. The latest King, Clancy, Sheldon, Blume, Francis, Cussler, Steel, etc. Surely that will be enough. Who reads ten books a year, much less a month? Why should a publisher print something that would only sell a few thousand copies? Oz books? Surely you jest. A tiny niche market of no interest to anyone. So, my theory is buy all you can now so you will have plenty to read then. Besides when you get to Hulan's age you will have forgotten what you have read and then you can read things again. :) Speaking of reading things again. I was at a signing for Robert Jordan. There was a young lady, maybe 25, in line in front of me. I asked her if she had read all seven of Jordan's series. She said, "Yes, eight times." Now that is a different slant on the matter. She doesn't need a lot of books printed as she can just read the same ones over and over. I resisted the urge to suggest she get a life. Afterall, I have read the LOTR three times. However, that was over a period of forty-eight years. Hmmmmm, Robin have you beat eight reads of the LOTR? Maybe there are some on the Digest who only read Oz books? That would be about like living solely on "Twinkies!" There I said it. ARRGHHHHHHH, No Glinda, NOOOOOOOOOO. Brokenly, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:47:43 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Content-Disposition: inline David Hulan: Our dates are pretty close. I set most of the early Baum books about one year later than you do, but I need more room to shoe-horn all of the non-FF books that take place during that time. If not for that, I could erase my assumption that Dorothy's aging slowed down by one year and thus squeeze the first six even more. Thoughts on _Tin Woodman_: The first time I ever read this story I was very suprised at Woot's suprise that Nick was not killed when he was chopped to pieces with his own axe. If Woot had been living for centuries without aging or dying, and by extension so would the rest of his village, then he would be very familiar with the rule of never dying in Oz. This is one of the many tidbits of evidence sprinkled throughout the FF that suggests to me that non-aging was not an immediate effect of Lurline's enchantment. Being mainly interested in Pre-Dorothean history, I was also interested in Baum's discussion of Oz in chapter 12. His comment that aging and death stopped immediately on Lurline's enchantment is contradicted several times in the FF (and even in this very book), and the statement that Lurline left a fairy to rule has caused many interpretations and guesswork as to the lineage of Ozma. I'm now tending to lean in the direction of Dave Hardenbrook's theory that Ozma is a fairy descendant of a member of hte band left by Lurline long ago. Just as the Dryad lineage bred true on the female side of the House of Borune of the _Belgariad_ series, so to does the fairy side breed true on the female side of Pastoria's family. This would also explain why Ozma doesn't seem to have much of a memory of Lurline or her band. It's interesting that when Dorothy and Ozma leave the Emerald City to render assistance, Ozma is not sure that she can help them. According to Dave Hardenbrook, this is a turning point in Ozian history, since this episode convinces Ozma to start learning magic and to take an active role in things. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:22:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman" Subject: The HI/RCC returns (for the Ozzy Digest) I am pleased to announce that my Web site, http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas , now carries the latest version of the Historically Inaccurate/Rejected Chronological Chain of Oz (HI/RCC), which is a listing of all Oz books that didn't make it into Tyler's HACC. Enjoy. Aaron Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman ףסוי לואש ןב המלש ןרהא adelmaas@musc.edu http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas/ Pioneer Aviation ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Oct 98 10:16:39 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Reply-To: Ruth A Berman Subject: ozzy digest J.L. Bell: Knowing when an author started typewriting manuscripts doesn't really tell you when the same author would have stopped handwriting them -- some authors do a first draft in longhand and a second draft in typescript. Interesting comments on the illos. A pleasant reference (pointed out in "Bugle" articles on Neill) is the inclusion of a young woman wearing a dress monogrammed MC in the endpapers group, sitting next to Glinda. She's Neill's wife, Margaret Carroll. In the three pictures of not-shown-transformed characters -- I think you're right that the picture of Woot is probably an error in placement rather than in drawing. I think Neill might have argued that the chapter heading of the Scarecrow is a portrait of the Scarecrow, not an illustration of the specific events in the chapter, and so can show him as himself rather than in his Yooped shape. And the picture of Polychrome with the Jaguar is maybe meant to show her as she sees herself -- the figure has a sort of ghostly, legless, flowing-line sort of quality that suggests spirit rather than body. Yes, the dragon looks very much like Agnes the dragon in "Giant Horse," and also like Enorma in "Grampa." I don't know of anyone but Neill who has drawn dragons as having short, round bodies, short- snouted, round (almost toad-like) faces, and stalked eyes. Traditionally, drawings of dragons had been based on snakes or lizards. The discovery of dinosaurs in the 19th century meant that artists started drawings as more dinosaurian than saurian (and a good deal larger than they'd been before -- medieval paintings of St. George usually showed a wolf-sized dragon). A.B. Frost, in his drawing for Carroll's mention of "Balbus and his mother-in-law attempting to convince the dragon" ("A Tangled Tale") and Frank Verbeck, in his drawing of Baum's Purple Dragon, are a little bit like Neill in showing a round snout, but still have the long face and long body of more traditional drawings. (Neill also was more traditional in his drawings of the dragonettes of "Dorothy and the Wizard" and "Wonder City," and Quox, Quiberon, and the Blue Dragon ["Tik-Tok," "Giant Horse," and "Ojo" -- that last in a handsome color plate.) There hadn't been many dragons in 18th/19th century writing, but at the end of the 19th century there was an explosion of them. (I had an article on this subject, "Victorian Dragons: The Reluctant Brood," in "Children's Literature in Education" in 1984, and an offshoot of it, "More Dragons in Oz," in the Winter 1989 "Bugle.") Looking at the Ozma/monkey-Woot drawing with your comments in mind, I notice that part of the humor comes from having their postures so similar -- position of hands and arms almost exactly the same, but reversed, as if in a sort of wildly distorted mirror image. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:19:04 -0700 All: We at Pagemasters are 2 hours and 39 minutes away from being kicked out of our office space. We move into our new building on Monday. Primenet is offering us a temporary internet connection. This will consist of ONE 28.8 modem. Therefore, to prevent clogging, my web page is hereby shut down until further notice. Note that I will continue to receive and post to the digest, since I get that at home. Thanks, Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:37:12 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Hello everyone, Since there was some discussion and interest on this group recently about Ken Cope's upcoming Oz CD-ROM computer game, I thought I would let you know that I already own one called "Yellow Brick Road". I'm not much into computer games in general, so I bought this more as a "collectible", however, I did play it a couple times and it's pretty fun and somewhat challenging. Here's all the details for anyone who is interested: It's a Japanese based product directed by Hiroyuki Miura with music soundtrack composed by Masaya Nishid. It's developed by Synergy, Inc. and published/distributed in the U.S. by Synergy Interactive Corporation, 444 DeHaro Street, Suite 123, San Francisco, CA 94107. The ISBN is: 1-888158-09-3. It's copyrighted 1996. It comes in both MAC and IBM compatible versions (3.1 and Windows 95). I don't know if it's available yet for Windows 98 or not. The packaging that came with the product said that there was going to be a "Yellow Brick Road II", but I have never seen it. I purchased mine at Media Play a couple years ago. I think I paid $25.00 for it. The main characters include the Scarecrow, the Tin Woodsman, the Cowardly Lion, and these evil "animal-like" characters. There is no Dorothy, Toto, or Witches. The characters look very good in my opinion and are obviously recognizable as Oz characters. The premise for the game is that Scarecrow is missing and the Emerald City is in trouble; players help the Tin Woodsman and the Cowardly Lion travel along the Yellow Brick Road in order to defeat the enemies that have kidnapped the Scarecrow. As you play the game, you engage in various battle sequences with the enemies. The object of the game is to defeat the enemies in battle in order to obtain enough "magical tools" to rescue the Scarecrow and regain control of the Emerald City. It's quite fun! Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Oct 98 14:52:24 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things COPYRIGHT: J.L. Bell wrote: >LITTLE MEN ... coming into the public domain this year... Well, this just goes to show how much in the dark I *still* am about this copyright law..._Little Men_ (and presumably her other well-known works except _Little Women_) is still under copyright?? Well, I guess that explains why _LW_ is the only well-known work of L.M. Alcott that is online. But why did the more recent Baum Oz books go PD before these Alcott works?? Did Alcott's heirs renew the copyrights, but Baum's didn't bother? Do you by any chance know when _Eight Cousins_ and _Rose in Bloom_ go PD? BCF: J.L. Bell wrote: >In the dwindling TIN WOODMAN conversation... Is that a hint that you think it's high time I set a date for _Magic_? A TWINKIE A DAY...: Bear wrote: >Maybe there are some on the Digest who only read Oz books? That would be >about like living solely on "Twinkies!" There I said it. ARRGHHHHHHH, No >Glinda, NOOOOOOOOOO. Glinda: You might at least have equated Oz with a more *classy* dessert like Chocolate Mousse... :) THE MOPPET SHOW: Wow! Two acceptances of "My Own Personal PEt Theories" in one Digest! I'm honored. :) "TOO MANY DAVES": I'd offer to clarify things by adopting *my* high school nickname, but I really don't want anyone here calling me "Cosmo-Gremlin"... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "What is Reality anyway...? Nothin' but a collective *hunch*!" -- Lily Tomlin