] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MARCH 27 - APRIL 1, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:15:36 +1100 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re:Oz Digest Nathan: I'm sure that all the characters I mentioned are in the parade. -World of Oz- says so, and so does the IWOC website. Lots of people have spotted them. I'm sure I saw Private Files and Ozga at the beginning of the parade, but I'm not sure..... Food in Oz: Well, Ozites are NOT vegetarian as we can plainly see, for we have some evidence that they eat meat. For ex: Mombi nearly cooked Pajuka the Goose in -Lost King-. See? Money in Oz: There is alot of evidence that Ozites use money in Oz. We can cut off all evidence before Ozma's accension because she may have put a stop to it, but there are a couple of times when we see money being used afterwards..... For ex:Mombi threatens to turn Snip into a sixpence coin unless he keeps quiet in -Lost King- and spend him at the first village they come to. Well, maybe Mombi didnt know about Ozma's new laws, and maybe she thought that Ozites still used money like in the old days...... Handy-Mandy and Scraps: Its a pity that they didnt become friends. They have a lot in common. Ruby Slippers: The Ruby Slippers in -RTOZ- are a thousand times better than those in -MGM-. Anyone who watched -RTOZ- will notice this. David(Godwin): I agree with you that Emma Ridley wasnt a good Ozma. Come to think of it, none of the Oz characters(actors) in RTOZ are good *.Dorothy- Too solemn *.Ozma- Same as Dorothy *.Cowardly Lion: Why wont that creature talk? *.Scarecrow: Not bad, but could have been better. They shouldnt have used a dummy.... *.Tinman: We never really see him act *.Mombi: Not at all the Mombi we find in the books. For one thing she is not so old, and doesnt have that cunning look.... *.Gnome King- Not at all the jolly old Ruggedo we find in the books *.Billina: Well done! *.Jack Pumpkinhead: Well done! *.Tiktok:Well done! *.Aunt Em: Too young. *.Uncle Henry: Too young *.Toto: Well done! I think they shouldnt have had Mombi in -RTOZ-. It would have been nice to see a vain young sorceress like Coo-ee-oh. They could have turned someone like Queen Anne,Langwidere or Jinjur into a sorceress too. It would have been more interesting. BTW: The name Langwidere sounds absurd! Why couldnt Baum find her a better name? I also think that Coo-ee-oh was a longer name and was modified into three syllables. --Gehan Cooray ============================= "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:15:35 +1100 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-23-99 Dave, Lisa and Aaron: This is my last week in colege for this term, and so I will *finally* have enough and more time to complete my site and advertise the RPG. We should hopefully start in a few weeks. I still need more characters.... David(Hulan): Sorry, what I meant to say was that the WWE paid Mombi to kidnap the Royal Munchkin Family and erase them from everyones memory. I also reveal that Mombi did this to use Orin and switch places between her and Locasta. It really looks as if Mombi is or rather *one* of the most powerful witches in Oz. I also meant her to be the most powerful wicked witch in Oz, so dont confuse her with the good witches. Someone said that Glinda may have laernt her sorcery from Zixi or Gayalette or Wam, but I dont think so. I beleive that someone, probably one of her ansectors, gave her access to studying sorcery. Thats plausible.... BTW: Are the WWW and the WWE sisters? Are Glinda and Locasta sisters? Its never mentioned in the books, only in the movie and other versions of -Wizard of Oz- The Wonderful World of Oz Amusement Park: It would be pretty dull if its MGM-only. There are lots of places in the books which they can use. Such as Bunbury,Lollipop Village,Black Forest,Loonville e.t.c. But it would be interesting to have the nothern country a land of ice and snow. I wonder how the southern country will be? And wonder who will be its ruler.... Lisa: Know what you mean....The Glinda in the MGM movie was sillier than the Glinda in the books. The Glinda in the gbooks thinks well and acts wisely, unlike Billie Burke. They should have developed her character and choosen a better, more beautiful actress..... You said your vegetarian.....Let me guess....I bet you did Medicine in college, and they showed you how animals are killed and all that stuff, untill you couldnt bear it any longer, and so you became a vege. Am I right? I'm not trying to be too smart.... Nathan: Sorry, I mixed up Wam with Wutz. I meant to compare Wutz with Mombi....... Dave: O.k. You can play Ozma as well. Thanks a million! She was especially needed! C'ya later! --Gehan Cooray ============================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:57:53 GMT From: David Hulan Subject: Ozzy Digest 03-23-99 Yet another of my posts seems to have been lost in cyberspace, maybe because I hit "reply" and forgot to change the address to "OzDigest" from "DaveH47". Anyhow, here's what I wrote on 3/24: ---------------- Regarding the ongoing discussion about the absolute darkness during the storm in RB, I ran across this interesting quote the other day: "A darkness overspread us, not like that of a cloudy night, or when there is no moon, but of a room when it is shut up and all the lights are extinguished. Nothing then was to be heard but the shrieks of women, the screams of children, and the cries of men...some wishing to die from the very fear of dying, some lifting up their hands to the gods; but the greater part imagining that the last and eternal night had come, which was to destroy both the gods and the world together." This is a translation of part of Pliny the Younger's description of the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 CE, as viewed from several miles away from the volcano itself. Perhaps the "storm" wasn't a storm at all, but a volcanic eruption? And the booming wasn't thunder, but the bangs of exploding vapor, etc.? That would explain the absence of lightning or rain. The eruption could have been out in the Deadly Desert somewhere, so there'd be no destruction in Oz proper. Lisa: >No meat? Yipee! (As you can probably tell, I am a vegetarian.) But in >one of the books, doesn't it say something about animals for food can be >killed? I forget which one, I have a short memory. In _Ojo_ Realbad kills a couple of birds that he and Ojo and Snufferbux eat, and it's clear that wild animals in Oz eat other animals (and occasionally people) - e.g., the jaguar's requests to Polychrome in _Tin Woodman_. I can also recall meat being served at some of Ozma's banquets, though it has been theorized that this meat grows on plants. In the current BCF you may recall that the CL ate 17 roasts at the Scarecrow's tower; I doubt if they were roasted potatoes... Vegetarianism (hardly vegan; butter and cheese are commonly eaten) seems to have been confined to the first book, and it may have been only coincidental that none of the meals described in detail included meat. Nathan >We don't >really know much about the Scarecrow's reign. And from what little we do know about it he doesn't seem to have been that competent. The events between Jack's arrival in the EC and Jinjur's invasion reveal a ruler acting somewhat sillier than Rinkitink. Tyler: >My answer to this question is the same as an earlier question posed on the >Digest "Who would make the best President of the United States from the Oz >books?". That, IMHO, is Cap'n Bill. I agree. >Of course, it was in either _Lost Princess_ or _Glinda_ that the good Cap'n >temporarily looked after things while the rest were off to find Ozma. He >did not rule per se, he just minded the store. It was _Lost Princess_; in _Glinda_ Cap'n Bill went along with the other councillors to the Skeezer city. >Not all male villains in the FF are stupid. Mustafa of Mudge and Baron >Mogodore were fairly competent, as was the Sultan of Samandra. Of course, >these are all Thompsonian baddies. For the most part, their only mistake >was underestimating Ozma's power, although they may have known too much >about her at the time. For that matter Ugu is far from stupid; his only real mistake was caused by ignorance of the Magic Belt and its powers. (Puzzling, since it was in Oz well before the Wizard became a real wizard and had his black bag of magic tools, and Ugu knew about that.) And he was the only serious male villain in Baum, aside from Roquat/Ruggedo. (I count someone a "serious" villain who is a danger to all Oz; villains like Krewl or the Su-dic or Mr. Yoop or King Gos are only threats to their immediate neighbors or, in the last case, to people outside Oz.) I'd also add Mooj and Wutz as competent Thompson villains, though I agree that Gorba/Abrog, Glegg, Loxo, and Strut aren't very bright. Gehan: >Regarding the Ozzy RPG: >As I said, you can play a character of the opposite sex as well. I dont >think that is quite a challenge. Infact, I find it easier to play the role >of a female character than a male one's. Well, I'm taking two female and one male character, but my female characters are both cats. And none of my characters are human. That's probably more of a challenge than playing a female of my own species, isn't it? :-) David G.: >Also, I'm not sure >that non-magical lions in non-magical countries are able to run for three >hours - I have the impression that they're good at sprinting, not so good >on the long haul. True. Lions are very fast for 50-60 yards, but they tire rapidly. Humans actually have greater endurance than most animals (if the human is in good condition; not _me_!); I've read that human hunters on foot can run down a horse or a deer or an antelope eventually, though for short distances they're nowhere near as fast. Some canids - wolves, particularly, and their close relatives domestic dogs (other than breeds that have been selected for other characteristics) - have the same kind of endurance; felids don't. >As for how far Dorothy can walk in a day, I think we've all agreed that >travel times as reported in the FF are notoriously unreliable. On the >Haff-Martin map, the distance from the Truth Pond to the Tin Woodman's >castle is roughly equivalent to the distance from "where Dorothy's house >landed" to the Emerald City, and the latter journey took five days. The journey in _Road_ is one of the most suspect ones in the whole FF. Another question it raises is how Tik-Tok, of all characters, managed to walk from wherever he was last wound up to near the Truth Pond. Billina surely couldn't have wound him; did she have to periodically hunt up a friendly Winkie? We know a single winding doesn't last him anything like a full day when he's walking. But most of the rest of the books seem to be fairly consistent with an Oz that's about the size of Belgium; a little bigger than New Hampshire or Vermont (and a very different shape). A reasonably close approximation in both size and shape might be the part of Tennessee within the "big bend" of the Tennessee River. With nothing but shank's mare available for travel most of the time, that's plenty big enough to accommodate everything shown in the FF with adequate room to spare for new stories. (Of course, you have to get rid of the scalawagons first...) >As an afterthought to my posting about the storm and the Cowardly Lion's >22-1/2 (or 25, or 45) mile dash through the land of the Winkies in _Royal >Book_ - what really beggars the imagination is that anyone or anything >could travel such a distance in Thompsonian Oz without having to go through >at least half a dozen IEs. It was so dark that they got past all those little town/kingdoms unseen! :-) Gehan again: >But Shanower's illustrations are much nicer than Neill's. Dorothy looks much >prettier. Ozma looks more mature and Glinda looks more beautiful. Anyone >agree with me? I'm not sure I'd agree that Shanower's illustrations are _much_ nicer than Neill's, but they're very nice indeed - except for a couple of pictures of Ozma in _Enchanted Apples_ that puts an expression on her face that I find very unattractive. >*.Denslow drew Dorothy with blonde hair. In the cover of -DOTWIZ- its >auborn.In -Patchwork Girl- its brown, and Dorothy looks much younger than >she were before. Dorothy looks like a redhead in the Denslow illustrations in my copies of WIZ. And she has either reddish-blonde or blonde hair in both _DotWiz_ and _Emerald City_, which you should remember are the only two books where Neill actually did colored illlustrations. The colors in the other books were put in by the printer and may or may not have represented what Neill had in mind. In _Patchwork Girl_ one colored illustration clearly has Dot blonde, and one has her with light brown hair. In the rest she has a sunbonnet on and it's hard to tell, though in one where a good bit of hair shows she's blonde again. >Why did Neill change his drawings so often? How can Dorothy and Ozma grow >tall and short? Do they die their hair or something? You may also notice >that Trot's hair style changed, as well as her hair colour. Could someone >please tell me why Neill kept doing this so often? Well, if you look at pictures of my wife over the years we've been married you'll see her with long straight blonde hair in our wedding pictures, with short wavy blonde hair a few years later, with shoulder-length very curly brown hair a few years later, with short wavy red hair a few years later, and currently with shoulder-length moderately curly brown hair. Admittedly, she's aged 25 years in that time, but mostly the difference is owing to choice. I see no particular reason why Ozma, Dorothy, or Trot should leave their hair the same color and style indefinitely; I imagine they'd like a bit of a change now and then the same way Marcia does. And in Oz, with all the magic available, they probably don't even have to worry about touching up their roots to maintain the new color... The tall-short aspect, however, is more puzzling. Larry: >Would anyone know the going rate for a hardcover copy in good condition >of "To Please A Child"? No, but if you have a copy for sale I'd like to put in a bid on it. Dave: >I'll be one of the heretics and say that I think Ozma is generally a >good ruler... I hardly think that's heretical; I think my assertion that at the beginning of her reign she _wasn't_ a very good ruler is considered more heretical. David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy 03-26-99 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:56:05 PST David Godwin: >BTW, I think >money is also used in _The Ozmapolitan of Oz_. I believe that Tim gives a few silver coins to Skipper Sally in exchange for her fortune cookies. Of course, Sally lives some way out of the Emerald City, so money might still be used in her part of the country. Dave Hardenbrook: >Gehan wrote: >>Is -Blue Witch of Oz- also one of Shanower's comic books, or a >>normal book >>like -Giant Garden of Oz-? Is the story about the Good Witch of the >>East, or >>the the Wicked Blue Witch of the East? > >It is a "graphic novel" (in other words, a comic book). It is about >the Good Witch of the East. The self-proclaimed Wicked Blue Witch of the East appears in Robin Hess's _Christmas in Oz_. -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:00:39 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy 03-26-99 In a message dated 3/26/99 10:12:01 PM Central Standard Time, DaveH47@mindspring.com writes: << In judging Thompson's infatuation with royalty, I take into account how she made Peter a knight and Speedy a princess's likely betrothed even as they return to America. Zeb didn't get that treatment. Baum made Dorothy a princess, as she deserved, but left Trot, Betsy, and Button-Bright as ordinary palace guests. Thompson elevated the first two to princess level. When a poor Gillikin boy wanders into TIN WOODMAN, he ends up as...a poor Gillikin boy. In PURPLE PRINCE, the similar figure turns out to be a king. Ojo ends PATCHWORK GIRL living happily with his uncle (whose royal blood isn't mentioned after the beginning of the book). Thompson moves them out of that small cottage into a big castle. Baum's happy, status-quo-ante endings didn't seem sufficient for Thompson. >>John L. Bell Zeb and Woot aren't genuinely heroic, but Peter and Speedy are. I see RPT's making Trot and Betsy royal as rectifying an inequity! She seems to feel that a child who acts really bravely and loyally deserves to be a prince or princess. Bob Up is a wuss. Snip and Jellia are happy servitors, as John points out. Jellia, of course, does get to be royal, temporarily, in _Ozoplaning_. Mandy has never seemed much like a child to me, btw. She's a grownup making her own way in the world. It would be very odd for such a character to want to bother with being royal. <>John, again Oh, that's good! Corny, but good! And now we know the answer to that age-old question "Where's the beef?" It's in Oz. Hey, did anyone answer my question about how to play the roleplaying game? I know nothing about that kind of stuff. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:00:52 -0500 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" X-Accept-Language: en Subject: My Replies David: <> Would you want to live in a land that is perfect all the time? No money used? Come on...many people disagree with me, but selfishness is what makes the world go round. If we simply operated on Tender Loving Care for other human beings, nothing would get done. Besides, in Oz, does _every_ one live like Ozma? In her opulent palace? Coronation scene of "Return to Oz": According to Tricia Trozzi, ALL the characters from the 14 Baum books, as well a few from the Neill books (Jenny Jump is there) and RPT (yes, that's Notta Bit More!). It is a huge scene, and Tricia said they are ALL there, although many are VERY hard to spot. (Someone on my RTOZ list said that the Wogglebug is there. Where, I have no clue. Back to the video! I'll review it this afternoon.) Also, the Musicker: He is most noticeable as one of two characters to catch Jack when he faints ("MOM!! My *real* mom!") ...he's dressed in purple with no mustache and an 'Oz' symbol on his belt instead of the 'M' like in Neill's illustration. Another thing about the scene: the guards are from the four countries of Oz, so there's a couple dressed in red, purple, yellow, and blue. The one dressed in green, however, must be Omby Amby. Peace!! ~Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:48:26 GMT From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy 03-26-99 Nathan: >He did seem to be quite frightened of the Ozoplanes (in _Ozoplaning_). True, but that's more in the line of talking cowardly than acting it - i.e., when the chips were down he did get onto the Ozoplane, even though he didn't like the idea. >While the image of an elephant being blown away by a storm is quite >amusing, this seems like yet another one of Thompson's hurried attempts >to get the characters to the right place. Note that a thunderstorm also >helped Kabumpo and Randy to cross the desert in _Purple Prince_. Why >would so many storms fall in such an arid area as the edge of the Deadly >Desert? Maybe the Rain King has a particular liking for Kabumpo. That arid area seems to get quite a bit of rain - it had rained near there to get Polychrome lost early in _Tik-Tok_, and again to get her home at the end. Then it happens again in _Lucky Bucky_ so that a rainbow can be used to get travelers over the desert. (Incidentally, that rainbows actually touch the ground is another way in which the laws of physics seem to be different in Oz, which reinforces my argument that it's not physically on this earth. Rainbows here aren't physical objects; they're lighting effects that inherently can't contact a physical object.) Ruth: >Your suggestion of Zixi as another possibility -- if Glinda could get to Ix >for >that, an additional possibility (attractive as suggesting a link to Glinda's >preferred title of "sorceress") might be Soob the Sorcerer who gets mentioned >in "Gnome King" (residence unknown, but probably on or near the Nonestic, as >some of his magic turns up on a Nonestic island). Perhaps the initial >instructor would pretty much have to be an Ozite, but once started in the >field Glinda could have looked for training from more than one person. I'd imagine that Glinda's aerial chariot (pulled by storks or swans; ISTR that in some cases it was one and in some the other) could get across the desert easily enough. Soob's magic was on Polacky's ship, though, wasn't it? Not on an island. But for Polacky to have gotten it (by fair means or foul) presumably it was in a coastal location at the time, which probably means that Soob lived near a coast. J.L.: >In judging Thompson's infatuation with royalty, I take into account how she >made Peter a knight and Speedy a princess's likely betrothed even as they >return to America. Wasn't Peter made a prince? I know Ozma offered him the title, and I thought he took it even though he refused the offer to remain in Oz. (Maybe I should check my copy of _Gnome King_; that's two questions that have come up about it that my memory is vague on. But it's downstairs and I'm lazy.) David G.: >...in _Ozma_, Dorothy has a ham >sandwich from a lunchbox that is growing on a tree. Not only it is not >vegetarian, it isn't even kosher! I think that's questionable; if something grows on a tree it seems to me that it's _ipso facto_ vegetarian, and consequently kosher (except maybe for Passover). Just because it tastes like ham and has the texture of ham and maybe the nutritional characteristics of ham doesn't make it an animal product. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:58:39 -0800 From: Nancy Weisberg X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Time for Tin Man! Our friends at Books of Wonder are now publishing L. Frank Baum's twelfth tale of over-the-rainbow fun in "The Tin Woodman of Oz." Available early May at the low price of $15.40 (plus s&h, brings it to only $19.35): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688149766/weisbeontheweb Order your's today!! Best... Larry Weisberg ldweisberg@geocities.com Visti "Welcome to Oz" @ WEISBERG on the WEB: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/2525 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:08:07 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: The Good Witch of the North If the GWN was already dis-enchanted when Jack Snow started writing -Magical Mimics-, then who was the GWN who attended Ozana's welcome party? Also, the Wizard claimed that there were two good witches in Oz when he came, Glinda and the GWN. And that was about fifty years before Dorothy's arrival. Orin said that she was turned into the GWN 25 years ago, a few years before Dorothy's arrival. Then who was the GWN Oscar spoke of? I know it was Locasta, but, I'm speaking canonically... Any iedias? --Gehan =================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:27:33 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Ozma-the-Red: Ozma is closer to being a pure communist than anyone in the Soviet Union was (or Yevgeny Primakov is today). That is, all share in everything, and the rulers exist totally for the benefit of the masses. The one difference is that Ozma and the other rulers are not elected. Someone once said that a benevolent despotism was the best type of government. It would be efficient, but not corrupt or oppressive. Ozma is certainly efficient, with her magical powers, and she is not in any way corrupt or oppressive. Also, I don't really see Ozma having a lot of presence in people's daily lives. She is not a micromanager. Gehan: _The Blue Witch of Oz_ is a traditional graphic novel (aka super-comic-book) from Eric Shanower, and it is about the heretofore unknown Good Witch of the East. It is my all-time favorite of the Shanower books, although it is a little dark, like most of his work. It also has a very nice picture of Glinda's castle, looking rather different from the way Neill drew it in _Ozoplaning_. John Bell: By way of expanding your comment about Oz as a place where things literally grow on trees, I'll add that the climate and soil are amazingly excellent, allowing the people to grow plenty of good food with little or no effort. I'd also imagine there are few if any boll weevils, locusts, etc. Or, if there are, they eat their fair share and no more. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:32:52 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: The Royal Book of Oz How can the Scarecrow's beanpole, rise from the Silver Island? I thought it was an ordinary pole fixed by the Munchkin Farmer. Surely he would have done some research if he saw a beanpole arise from nowhere. And even if it were a magic beanpole, and if the spirit of Chang Wang Woe enters the first person who touches it, then the spirit should have entered the farmer. Surely he would have touche the pole before the Scarecrow? Ruth Plumly Thompson doesnt think straight and that annoys me! I also cant stand the thought of our jolly old scarecrow having the spirit of Chang Wang Woe. -Royal Book- is totally un-fit. I didnt enjoy it much either. But then, by rejecting -Royal Book-, all the Thompson books are rejected, mainly because of Sir Hokus of Pokes. I would have assumed that it was all a bad dream which Dorothy had, but the fact that Sir Hokus settled won in the EC rejects that. --Gehan Cooray =================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 31 Mar 99 09:32:43 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: Return to Oz parade censusing Nathan DeHoff & David Godwin & Dave Hardenbrook: You all commented (in answering Gehan Cooray's question about the variation in Neill's drawings of Dorothy and Ozma) that Neill probably made changes for the sake of variety. Some additional factors probably also at work: he made some use of models (his daughters, nieces, and others), and a suddenly younger Dorothy or Ozma may mean a switch to a younger model; Neill liked to have his characters keep up with American fashions a bit; occasionally (David Hulan has commented on this with regard to Trot) a drawing that he (probably) really meant to be one girl was mis-labeled. I think there may have been a switch to a younger model for Ozma, for instance, at or near the start of "Emerald City." In "Dorothy and the Wizard," the color plate of Ozma and Dorothy seems to show Ozma as at least a couple of years older and a good deal taller. (There aren't any "Road" illos that show comparative heights for them, but there, too, Ozma looks older in face.) In "Emerald City," a couple of the illos may show Ozma as perhaps taller and older (p. 57, coming forward to welcome Dorothy; color plate opposite p. 264 looking in Magic Picture), but not definitely so, while some of the illos show Ozma as clearly more childlike than in "Dorothy and the Wizard," and very nearly the same height as Dorothy, especially the color plate of the two of them with Glinda. I haven't checked to see if there are other places where there seems to be a definite shift to a younger version of a character, though. David Godwin: Thanks for the careful listing of characters visible in "Return." I don't have the videotape (I think I did, but can't find it -- a small relative may have done a longterm borrowing), but in addition to the "World of Oz" shot you mention, there's a shot used as the bacover of the Spring 1985 "Bugle," which includes a row near the front of the Guardian of the Gate (in green, as you'd expect), the Patchwork Girl, Rinkitink, and the Bumpy Man. You mentioned not being able to spot the Guardian or Rinkitink, among the characters Gehan listed, so maybe this shot wasn't actually used in the movie, or maybe it went by so quickly you didn't catch it on the tape. The shot also includes Polychrome (visible as her rainbow headdress) and next to her a young man I recall as being Tommy Kwikstep, although the multi-legs aren't visible in the shot, and I also recall the Frogman as being part of the corresponding scene in the movie, although he isn't visible in this shot. Of the other characters you mention, the young man who looks like a hippie seems to me to have definitely braids rather than shags, and so is probably the Braided Man. The white bearded man in red is probably the Shaggy Man (in his "rose-colored velvet" shaggy suit described at the end of "Road"), as the outfit seems quite shaggy. (Confusingly, though, he is holding a couple of packages, rather in the pose of the Braided Man offering his birthday present to Ozma.) The Little Persons, a man with beard and fur hat and a man with blue helmet -- I think that rather than individual characters, these are meant to be Munchkins; the "Bugle" shot shows them with two more Little Persons, both women, and taken as a group the four of them look to me as if their costumes are intentionally reminiscent of the fanciful Munchkin costuming of the MGM "Wizard." J.L. Bell: "Reuben in Oz" thoughts -- and perhaps a corresponding scrap of paper named Rachel? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:25:53 -0500 From: Jill Moore Subject: Wizard of Oz Theme Park This is a fantastic article about the new Wizard of Oz Theme Park set to open in 2002!! You'll enjoy reading all about it!! http://www.sunpublications.com/sunnews/news1.html ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 01 Apr 99 10:55:38 (PST) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things MEANESS AND SELFISHNESS -- VASTLY UNDERRATED?: Lisa wrote: >Would you want to live in a land that is perfect all the time? No money >used? Come on...many people disagree with me, but selfishness is what >makes the world go round. If we simply operated on Tender Loving Care >for other human beings, nothing would get done. Ruggedo: I'm in the market for a new Chief Steward -- Care to apply? GOOD WITCHES: Gehan wrote: >If the GWN was already dis-enchanted when Jack Snow started writing -Magical >Mimics-, then who was the GWN who attended Ozana's welcome party? Jack Snow -- being a "Baum purist" -- disregards the Thompson and Neill books and so writes as though the events in those books never took place. Therefore, in his books the GWN is the GWN -- never some enchanted princess. OFF-TOPIC -- THE MELISSA VIRUS: A number of people (including some nice folks on the Digest) have sent me info. about the Melissa virus, but some of the info. I have received (*not* from the Digest) turns out to be an April Fool's joke. So I'm a bit confused now -- how much of this Melissa virus is a joke and how nuch is on the level... Can it really obliterate my hard drive??? Ozma: I outlawed April Fool's Day in Oz some years ago... St. Patrick's Day is still allowed, but *not* the pinching. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 2 - 7, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:16:47 -0500 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: blown up in Oz David Hulan wrote of the storm in ROYAL BOOK: <> Fascinating theory. Mount Munch and Flathead Mountain share a somewhat volcanic shape (with an unusual upthrust), so there may well be active volcanoes close enough to Oz to be heard and seen. In fact, their ashes might have formed a great deal of the Deadly Desert. I have a small vial of Mount St. Helens ash on my desk, and it's a very fine, light-gray dust, not unlike some descriptions of the shifting sands. Robin Olderman wrote: <> We may be working with different uses of "hero": in the narrative sense of the character readers follow (usually a fellow child), and in the fortitudinal sense of someone who takes big personal risks to help others. In both senses, however, I think Zeb and Woot just barely qualify, though the former is overshadowed by Dorothy and the latter is so self-effacing that his personality remains invisible even after folks can see his body again. That's not to say they deserve to become princes, but neither does Ojo, and Thompson makes him one. I think Baum was content to reward bravery and loyalty with happiness; Thompson indeed felt these qualities usually deserved a crown. Dorothy saved large portions of Oz from tyrants and Ozma's court from Roquat before becoming a princess. Betsy and Trot never achieve that much for Oz. (Trot does a lot for Sky Island, and is consequently crowned twice there; she also deserves her honors from the Ozure Isles. Betsy's contribution to Rash, while getting her a royal ring, seems piddling by comparison.) Nor do the girls give any evidence in Baum's books of wishing to be princesses of Oz--Thompson just seems to assume they'd want to be. David Hulan wrote: <> As I recall, the Wizard has a black bag during DOROTHY & WIZARD, which implies he might have had it or one like it when he first came to Oz. His subjects may have associated the bag with his powers then. Relying on his incomplete sources, Ugu could have grabbed that bag based on that old tradition and lucked out in finding actual working magic inside instead of a few cups and balls (and perhaps nine hungry piglets). Another possibility is that Ugu stumbled across the bag in Ozma's palace, recognized the W.O.O. initials it sometimes seems to have, and added it to his haul; in reconstructing the crime later, after the bird had flown, Dorothy and her comrades may have assumed Ugu went after the Wizard's bag deliberately. Lisa Mastroberte wrote: <> Regardless of what you and I believe about selfishness, in discussing Oz it seems important to start with how Baum depicts the fairyland. Clearly things *do* get done in the country, despite Ozma's combination of acquisitiveness and generosity: people raise crops, craft artifacts, provide services. The closer they are to the fairy queen's capital, the more they live under her rule, and the nicer and more prosperous they seem to be. Indeed, the chance to participate in the sharing that runs the economy (at least in ROAD and EMERALD CITY) is one of the major motivators for ordinary Ozians to work. You're right that in judging the attraction of living in Oz we mustn't assume we'd be among the lucky subjects in Ozma's palace. (Though I can think of only four American emigres who don't live there, and they all live nearby: Bob, Notta, Jenny, and Bucky.) A fairer question may be whether one would like to live in a small, hemispherical, two-hearth cottage outside but within sight of the Emerald City; raise a crop which would all go to Ozma; and be able to obtain anything one would want for the rest of an infinite life from her storehouses. I suspect that the lack of mortality, disease, and many other woes means that Ozian psychology is fundamentally different from the psychology of mortals. (Living in a supernatural world may have significant effects on Ozians' outlook as well.) As Americans we'd have a hard time accurately imagining lives as ordinary Ozians because our psyches would have to adjust as much as our wardrobes. Notions like the need to leave your mark on this world before you die simply wouldn't apply. Similarly, from all that Baum tells us about Ozma, she'd be appalled at the idea that "selfishness is what makes the world go round." That disconnect makes it all the more important to look at what the books tell us about life in Oz. One could say that the fact that Ozma's economic system works is just as outlandish as a talking Scarecrow or popcorn snow. But faulting her for making it work against our experience, expectations, or principles seems a bit close-minded. It's like the old joke about an economist walking along the sidewalk, and spotting what looks like a ten-dollar bill on the ground; she walks on, thinking, "That can't be a ten-dollar bill, because if it were a ten-dollar bill, someone would have picked it up by now." Tyler Jones wrote: <> I think the biggest fault with Ozma's system of government is how its centralization makes it vulnerable. As several books show, capturing or removing only a few high-ranking people (Ozma, Wizard, Glinda) seems to cripple the system. So far a combination of luck and diligence has allowed Ozma's friends to restore her to power, but distributed authority still seems safer in the long run. Then again, I have the psychology of a mortal. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I have this vision of annual farmer-insect negotiations-- Farm Board Chairwoman: So in the region between Seebania and Troth, we'll set aside one-seventh of each field, and every tenth fruit tree. (Insects confer: Bzz bzz bzz bzz.) Weevil Delegate: My people want every eighth tree. Some of them have to lay their eggs, after all. Chairwoman: Will you at least present our proposal for a vote? Delegate: Oh, all right. But this will take a while. Everybug who wants to accept the farmers' offer, raise your right hands! Two, four, six, eight, ten,... Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Remember what little we learn about that farmer from ROYAL BOOK: when a big hole arises from nowhere around his beanpole, he just covers it up. Even though the Scarecrow has disappeared from that very spot, the farmer seems to make no inquiry. The Scarecrow may have gotten all the brains in that household, even before he first set out to see the Wizard. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I've a hunch Baum constructed it out of the word "languid" on the same principle that might bring us "Lovelianne." David Godwin wrote: <> Nicely done. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 07:52:44 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re:Ozzy Digest Lisa: Come on! Do you choose selfishness to peace and love? About 85% of the Ozites accept Ozma's rules, other than villains like Wutz,Ruggedo,Coo-ee-oh, and strange tribes such as Loonville,Untensia e.t.c. See how happy all the Ozites are in Oz? Unlike our miserable world...... David Hulan: I still think Shanower's illustrations are a zillion times better than Neills. I know, Ozma's face is horrible in the cover of -Enchanted Apples-, but she looks beautiful everywhere else. Glinda looks horrible in Neills darwings, but she looks exquisite in Shanower's books. Jack Snow: I guess it was silly of Jack Snow to ignore Thompsons books. As I said, I dont approve to _most_ of Thompsons works, but her stories are fun, and I accept most of them. Still, wont Jack Snow feel hurt if the other historians ignored his work? Hmmmm? The Return to Oz parade: I doubt that every single Baum character was in the parade. I'd love to see anyone spot out the Hammerheads,Fighting Trees,Underground Dragons e.t.c...... It was s big mistake to include most of the Baum characters and the Thompson characters at the end of the parade, without an explanation as to how they got there. (Characters like Shaggy Man and Cap'n Bill and Notta bit More) They left out Glinda and the GWN. O.k, if they couldnt compeat with Billie Burke, they could have atleast added the GWN. Surely Glinda will attend the parade? If there is no Glinda in Oz, then who told Dorothy the magic of the ruby slippers? Hmm? The Return to Oz film was not planned at all well...... Ruth Plumly Thompson: Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like Baum did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any published in the Reilly&Lee editions? Thanks, --Gehan Cooray =============================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:10:07 -0500 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Gehan: There is no mention in the FF of any of the Good or Wicked Witches anywhere. However, there are hints of some of them being sisters and/or cousins in the non-FF books. People like the soap opera storyline where everything is connected to everything else, so they write things like this in. If the park is to be strictly MGM, there may not be a southern kingdom at all. There was no mention of the south in the movie. The time difference between the Wizards arrival and the GWNs conquest of Mombi was simply an error by Thompson from an Oz-as-literature point of view. From an Oz-as-history point of view, and using only the FF, it gets a little trickier. The only two explanations I can come up with are either that Tattypoo/Orin lost track of time, or there was another hertofore-unknown Good Witch in the Northern parts. For another explanation, let pick some nits. When the Wizard mentions that there were two Good Witches in the land, he did not specifically place them in the North and South. Ozma did, but that wa very early in her rule, and she may not have had a full sense of history yet. The Wizard may have referred to Abatha, the Good Witch of the East. Ozma may have assumed that he meant the Good Witch of the North, and they may not have analyzed their stories in great detail at that time. As for the GWN who attended the party in Snow's book, that was a case of Snow deliberately ignoring anything that Thompson and Neill wrote. I see no reason for an Oz-as-history explanation. He simply put here there to cancel out Thompson. It just depends on who you see as more canononical. For my part, I'd lean toward Thompson as the more accurate source. After all, Snow himself mistakenly merged two of Baum's orignal characters into one person. From most of your statements, though, you seem to favor Snow. While I never really liked the whole bean-pole story line from _Royal Book_, I don't think that it rises to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. I will not vote to impeach RPT from the list of FF authors. Many of her story lines were excellent. Overall, I'd probably rate RPT as the best author of the FF, although there are some points about her works that don't sit well with me. Lisa: You're definitely correct that some form of selfishness and personal desire is what makes things happen in this world. It seems, though, that this necessity is much less in Oz. People there just don't seem to want very much apart from basic living. ##### Beware of Melissa #### Here's the straight dope on Melissa. This is a virus that seems to work via e-mail and the Microsoft Outlook program. It mails itself to you with an attachment. This is a word document. When you open it, it goes into Outlook, gets the first 50 names from your address book, and mails copies of itself to those people. This is how it spreads. Melissa does not appear to be destructive, but the high volume of mailings that it causes has forced some e-mail servers to shut down. It can only spread itself from Outlook, although it can be sent to any system. It appears to be almost gone, though. People can recognize it. The message is somehting like "Here's that document you asked for. Don't let anyone else see it". Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 2 Apr 99 08:28:44 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: continued GWN in Oz David Hulan: Interesting suggestion of a volcano as a possible cause for heavy darkness. I think Neill's bakery-volcano in "Lucky Bucky" is the only mention of a volcano in an Oz book? Or, no, there's one on Blaze's Fire Island in "Grampa." And the Fire-fall in "Hungry Tiger" and maybe the Thunder Mountain of Lightning Lake mentioned in "Wishing Horse" might be volcanic, too. // Soob the Sorcerer's magic is found on Polacky's ship in "Gnome King," but is mentioned as coming from the Island of Ashangabad. (Of course, Ashangabad isn't specifically mentioned as being in the Nonestic, but it seems likely.) Lisa M. Mastroberte: You're perhaps being unduly pessimistic in assuming that the perfection of Oz would get boring if one lived there a long time (and also in assuming that the cottagers who spend most of their work-time farming might be unhappy at not having the kind of opulent living quarters that Ozma does). Farming (with, as Tyler mentioned, good soil and climate and without much competition from pests) can be interesting work, and the play-time is probably sufficient to allow for a lot of additional activities. Neill's Oz books are in some ways not as good as most of the others, but one thing that's fairly strong in them is a sense of ordinary people in the Emerald City and in the four countries of Oz with a variety of activities in their lives (Jack Pumpkinhead's glee club, the family Q&A sessions at Number Nine's parents' house, women going shopping for new dresses, kids doing supervised graffiti on the walls, etc.). [Possible spoiler: next paragraph assumes knowledge of end of "Giant Horse."] Gehan Cooray: I don't think you checked the exact wording in saying that there's an inconsistency in having Orin have been turned into the Good Witch of the North a few years before the events of "Wizard" and the Wizard's arrival many years earlier. The Wizard doesn't actually say that all four witches, two good and two bad, were established in power and ruling the four countries of Oz when he arrived. He jumps from describing how he arrived and built the Emerald City to describing the witches as people he feared. In the absence of further explanation in the later Oz books, the reader might reasonably assume, as you did, that the four witches were already in power, including the GWN's overthrow of Mombi, before the Wizard arrived. But the text doesn't say so. RPT as Royal Historian assumed that there might have been changes in the ruldership between the time of the Wizard's arrival and the time when he'd completed his Emerald building program, and her assumption is consistent with what the Wizard actually says. Along the same lines, the presence of the GWN in "Magical Mimics" need not be inconsistent with the existence of Orin. It's true that Ozma, at the end of "Giant Horse," says that Orin is no longer the GWN -- but Ozma is thinking at that point in political terms, of the GWN as the Gillikin ruler. But the people (or narrative voices) who had known Orin as the GWN might reasonably go on calling Orin the GWN anyway. For that matter, if Orin remembered some of the magic she had known while in witch shape, she might go on practicing magic, and so would actually still *be* the GWN (although N in that case would mean North Munchkinland, not the Gillikin land). [end of spoiler, comment continued] Having the Scarecrow be the first to touch the beanpole is not particularly inconsistent, either. There's no reason to insist that the Munchkin Farmer would *necessarily* have done any research about a beanpole that mysteriously appeared on his farm. He might have thought of putting up a scarecrow in the first place because he noticed a convenient pole, and he might have thought someone else had put it up previously and not taken the trouble to find out for sure. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Oz Matters Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:23:38 PST Gehan: >Handy-Mandy and Scraps: >Its a pity that they didnt become friends. They have a lot in common. Like cloth hands, you mean? >Come to think of it, >none of the Oz characters(actors) in RTOZ are good >*.Mombi: Not at all the Mombi we find in the books. For one thing she >is not so old, and doesnt have that cunning look.... That's because she isn't wearing her own head. >*.Gnome King- Not at all the jolly old Ruggedo we find in the books I agree on this point. Since when are the Nomes rock giants? >*.Tiktok:Well done! "Return to Oz" was recently brought up on the They Might Be Giants mailing list, and someone mentioned Tik-Tok as a "satanic looking ticking thing." In response, I mentioned that he was a respectable creation of Smith and Tinker, and not Satanic at all. >I think they shouldnt have had Mombi in -RTOZ-. It would have been >nice to >see a vain young sorceress like Coo-ee-oh. They could have turned >someone >like Queen Anne,Langwidere or Jinjur into a sorceress too. It would >have been more interesting. Perhaps, but "Return to Oz" was basically a combination of _Land_ and _Ozma_, so the writers chose a villain from one of those books (and combined her with a semi-villain from the other). Besides, Mombi was the one who brought Jack Pumpkinhead to life. >I also think that Coo-ee-oh was a longer name and was modified into >three syllables. I seem to recall seeing an essay in which it was mentioned that "Coo-ee-oh" is a hog call. >This is my last week in colege for this term, and so I will *finally* >have >enough and more time to complete my site and advertise the RPG. We >should >hopefully start in a few weeks. I still need more characters.... I might be willing to participate. What characters have already been taken, and which ones are needed? >Are the WWW and the WWE sisters? Are Glinda and Locasta sisters? >Its >never mentioned in the books, only in the movie and other versions of >-Wizard of Oz- In _Wicked Witch_, it is mentioned that Singra is a cousin of both the WWE and the WWW. Mrs. Payes was probably influenced by the fact that they were sisters in the movie. >David Hulan: >Wasn't Peter made a prince? Yes, but I think he was also knighted by Belfaygor. -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:25:04 -0600 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz Gehan wrote, concerning RTOz: >*.Cowardly Lion: Why wont that creature talk? At the end, after Dorothy has already clicked her heels, everyone is saying good-bye. There is a long shot in which the Cowardly Lion is standing behind Dorothy. He opens his mouth, and a deep voice that is almost certainly the Lion says, "Bye, Dorothy." Then we get an immediate close-up of Dorothy and hear the Lion growl. >BTW: The name Langwidere sounds absurd! Why couldnt Baum find her a better >name? I believe the name is a pun for "languid air," which she has. >Know what you mean....The Glinda in the MGM movie was sillier than the >Glinda in the books. The Glinda in the gbooks thinks well and acts wisely, >unlike Billie Burke. They should have developed her character and choosen a >better, more beautiful actress..... My own opinion is that Billie Burke made a lousy Glinda but an okay GWN. Of course, the two characters are combined in the movie. Her only saving grace as Glinda is that they got the hair color more or less correct. Lisa wrote: >According to Tricia Trozzi, ALL the characters from the 14 Baum books, >as well a few from the Neill books (Jenny Jump is there) and RPT (yes, >that's Notta Bit More!). It is a huge scene, and Tricia said they are >ALL there, although many are VERY hard to spot. (Someone on my RTOZ list >said that the Wogglebug is there. Where, I have no clue. Back to the >video! I'll review it this afternoon.) That _all_ these characters are present is really hard to believe. That would mean, for one thing, that all the royal guests at Ozma's birthday party in _Road_ would be there, and I didn't see any of them. Is it possible that a lot of footage was cut from the film? Unfortunately, I can't get a freeze frame on my VCR without so much white noise that you can't identify anyone, and some of the scenes that include the most people are like a third of a second long. But it seems to me that I did catch a fleeting glimpse of somebody/something that could have been the Wogglebug. I did finally spot the Musicker, thanks to you. I guess I expected him to be fatter. But there seem to be an awful lot of people who are just ordinary citizens of the EC. Gehan wrote: >Ruth Plumly Thompson doesnt >think straight and that annoys me! _Royal Book_ was her first Oz book and she was just getting her feet wet. I think she went back in later books and tried to fill in some of the gaps and deficiencies. For example, in RB, there is no hint as to how Sir Hokus, if he is an Arthurian knight, got from ancient Britain to Oz or why he is there. This is all explained in _Yellow Knight_ (where he has nothing to do with King Arthur), but readers of _Royal Book_ when it first appeared would have had to wait another nine years for this clarification. Similarly, it's a mystery where the Camel and Dromedary came from until that finally gets explained in a later book. Ruth wrote: > The shot >also includes Polychrome (visible as her rainbow headdress) and next >to her a young man I recall as being Tommy Kwikstep, although the >multi-legs aren't visible in the shot, and I also recall the Frogman as >being part of the corresponding scene in the movie, although he isn't >visible in this shot. You can always identify Tommy Kwikstep by his hat even when his legs aren't visible. And yes, the Frogman shows up pretty clearly. And thanks for your comments and help about this scene. Dave: All I know about the Melissa virus is what I read in the newspaper. I got the idea that the worst it could do was fill up your e-mail storage - and that of your ISP and everyone on your e-mail mailing list. It doesn't erase anything. Anyway, you're apparently safe if you refrain from opening any attachments that say "list," and even then I think it only works in Microsoft's e-mail program, Outlook Express. Speaking of which, if you belong to any lists, such as Gehan's, it is a horrible mistake to have software that automatically answers e-mail when you are away for some period (the e-mail equivalent of voice mail). The automatic reply goes on the list and is in turn sent to you as a member of that list, which provokes another answer to the list until everyone on the list is flooded with zillions of copies of your "I'm not at home right now" message. I got this information from a guy who was starting up a list. Speaking of which, no one seems to have posted anything to Gehan's list in quite a while. War in Oz: Another new/old topic. Oz being some sort of utopia, we can hardly imagine any serious war taking place there. The closest we come to it in any of the FF is Jinjur's revolution, and that can be called "war" only by the most liberal definitions. The Gnome King's invasion doesn't count as a war because there is never any fighting. Ann doesn't get very far at all in her plans to conquer Oz in _Tik-Tok_. In _Glinda_, there is the threat of war, but no actual hostilities other than Coo-ee-oh's abortive attack that ends so poorly for her. *But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within living memory. Otherwise, what would be the function of the Tin Soldier? Why would any soldiers be needed at all? And most of all, how about Grampa's reminiscences and old war stories? With whom was Ragbad at war? Of course, the absence of any war in Oz PO (post-Ozma) can be partly explained by the fact that war is awfully pointless if you can't actually kill anybody (just "destroy" them). - David G. ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:22:18 -0700 Administrative: The Ozzy Digest for March of 1999 has now been backed up, archived and is available on my web page http://tyler1.apprentice.com in the Land of Oz section. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:37:50 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-01-99 To coin a phrase: Mombi's threat to turn Snip into a sixpence coin doesn't mean money was still used in Oz--believe me, I'd hate to be turned into a shilling even though shillings aren't used for currency in the US! Langwidere: Well, some deer aren't so languid, I suppose . . . Animal speeds: I guess it's like the Tortoise and the Hare--the one who is slow but sure (like a human, relative to an antelope) would beat one who is fast but sprinting (like an antelope, relative to a human). Polacky: Does anyone else think this might have been a slur on people from Poland? Wishing you all many Ozzy dreams, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 08:01:10 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Sir Hokus Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? BTW, since -Royal Book- discussions seem to have ended, how about setting a date for -Kabumpo in Oz-? --Gehan Cooray =============================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:26:38 -0600 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Storm in Oz David Hulan wrote, with regard to the storm in _Royal Book_: >Perhaps the "storm" wasn't a storm at all, but a volcanic >eruption? And the booming wasn't thunder, but the bangs of exploding vapor, >etc.? That would explain the absence of lightning or rain. The eruption >could have been out in the Deadly Desert somewhere, so there'd be no >destruction in Oz proper. In that case, would there not have been considerable volcanic ash? Personally, I think it was a monstrous crow. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:48:34 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-01-99 Gehan: >Food in Oz: >Well, Ozites are NOT vegetarian as we can plainly see, for we have some >evidence that they eat meat. For ex: Mombi nearly cooked Pajuka the Goose in >-Lost King-. See? There's also the reference in _Wishing Horse_ to the way farmers had of looking at Pigasus as if they were reducing him to strips of bacon and slices of ham. And he and Dorothy meet a fisherman with a string of fish, which were presumably intended for eating. >For ex:Mombi threatens to turn Snip into a sixpence coin unless he keeps >quiet in -Lost King- and spend him at the first village they come to. Well, >maybe Mombi didnt know about Ozma's new laws, and maybe she thought that >Ozites still used money like in the old days...... Thompson says that the children of Kimbaloo went out every morning with buttons (boys) and flowers (girls) and came home in the evening with bags of coins, so I think we can conclude that money was used in that part of Oz, at least. Rogin >Zeb and Woot aren't genuinely heroic, but Peter and Speedy >are. I agree that Woot isn't, but I think Zeb is reasonably heroic on at least a couple of occasions, most notably in fighting the Gargoyles. Lisa: >Would you want to live in a land that is perfect all the time? No money >used? Come on...many people disagree with me, but selfishness is what >makes the world go round. If we simply operated on Tender Loving Care >for other human beings, nothing would get done. In the first place, Oz isn't perfect all the time; there wouldn't be any books if it were. I for one would be quite happy to live there. In the second, what's your evidence that nothing would get done if we simply operated on TLC for other human beings? If selfishness were truly what makes the world go round, who'd ever raise a child? Gehan again: >How can the Scarecrow's beanpole, rise from the Silver Island? I thought it >was an ordinary pole fixed by the Munchkin Farmer. Surely he would have done >some research if he saw a beanpole arise from nowhere. And even if it were a >magic beanpole, and if the spirit of Chang Wang Woe enters the first person >who touches it, then the spirit should have entered the farmer. Surely he >would have touche the pole before the Scarecrow? Ruth Plumly Thompson doesnt >think straight and that annoys me! I also cant stand the thought of our >jolly old scarecrow having the spirit of Chang Wang Woe. -Royal Book- is >totally un-fit. I didnt enjoy it much either. But then, by rejecting -Royal >Book-, all the Thompson books are rejected, mainly because of Sir Hokus of >Pokes. I would have assumed that it was all a bad dream which Dorothy had, >but the fact that Sir Hokus settled won in the EC rejects that. You can look at it either of two ways, but it seems to me that you're mixing them. From the Oz-as-literature POV you can object to logical inconsistencies in RPT's books, but in that case what's the meaning of "rejected"? To say "I don't like this book" is certainly reasonable, but there isn't anything about a work of fiction to reject or accept. From an Oz-as-history POV, if RPT is indeed a Royal Historian of Oz then the events in her books, however "un-fit," are the way things happened and the challenge is to come up with a rational explanation of them. You can argue that Baum was telling real Oz history and Thompson (and presumably the other FF writers) were writing fiction, but then you can't use anything from the later books in your vision of Oz. To get to your specific objections, the bean pole may well have been in the field when the Munchkin farmer acquired it, so he wouldn't know of its magical origins. The field might have belonged to a Munchkin who died, and no one was observing it at the time the bean pole appeared. This is consistent with the timing; the bean pole grew fifty years before the time of RB, but the Scarecrow wasn't put on it until 20-some years before those events. It is perhaps odd that no bird or animal chose to touch the pole during all that time, but maybe animals are able to sense that kind of magic and so avoided it. And there's no particular reason why the Munchkin farmer should have touched the bean pole himself in the process of hanging the Scarecrow on it - or at least, he might have touched it with the Scarecrow before he touched it himself. Of course, from a rational point of view we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a series of children's books by writers (including Baum) who weren't really concerned with logical consistency; that Oz is nevertheless a place with what the late Warren Hollister dubbed "three-dimensionality" is a tribute to their success in secondary creation even though that wasn't really what they were concentrating on. Dave: OFF-TOPIC -- THE MELISSA VIRUS: >A number of people (including some nice folks on the Digest) have sent me >info. about the Melissa virus, but some of the info. I have received >(*not* from the Digest) turns out to be an April Fool's joke. So I'm >a bit confused now -- how much of this Melissa virus is a joke and >how nuch is on the level... Can it really obliterate my hard drive??? As others will probably tell you, the Melissa virus is real, but it can't obliterate your hard drive, and in fact it's unlikely to have any significant effect on a home computer. What it does is send out e-mails to 50 people, if you have that many in your address book, or to everyone in your address book if you don't have 50. Because it can pyramid rapidly, it can do a number on network servers by jamming them, so if you're on a network it can cause a certain amount of havoc. It also only works if you're using Microsoft Outlook as your e-mail software; yet one more reason to avoid the products of Bill Gates's Evil Empire! :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: Fw: Oz Mania Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:09:37 -0400 Can someone help this Oz fan? >Hi Bob, I intend on coming to your fiesta in April. The only movie that I dont have is the 1969 The Wonderful Land of Oz. Can I get that video anywhere? I saw the film when I was a kid and would love to have it to own. Please let me know if you need any volenteers. I know Im late but this is believe it or not my first time on the web. thanks, Ojo< Ojopjq65@aol.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:07:41 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Animals Hi all! I was just thinking,how can..... Toto be the only dog in Oz? Billina be the only hen in Oz? Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? Surely, Oz being a fairy country, it should have every kind of animal. Think of farms without chickens or horses. What kind of meat do the Ozites have.....possibly pork and beef. Still, its silly to think of a country with no dogs or hens or horses. The only such country I've heard of, is in -Dick Whittington-, a land with no cats. Secondly, Dorothy tells Shaggy Man that Uncle Henry whips Toto in -Road to Oz-, and she tells "her gracious highness" Queen Coo-ee-oh that she whips Eureka. How can anyone be so cruel? I can imagine lashing a bull or a horse, but I've never heard of anyone whipping an innocent dog or a cat. And such small ones too. Any iedias? BTW, if Oz is a fairy country and all live things can talk, why dont plants and flowers talk? I know we dont consider plants as live things in English Litreture, but..... --Gehan Cooray ============================================ "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 99 01:47:42 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ AND RED DWARF: **** MINOR SPOILERS FOR RPT'S OZ BOOKS & THE NEW 8TH SEASON OF RED DWARF **** During the time Thompson was writing Oz books, the Ozites acquired quite a few items -- the all-powerful Magic Belt, the Wishing Pills, the Wishing Necklace, etc. -- that between them can pretty much do anything and provide a predictable cop-out quick-fix whenever they're in a tight spot. In the course of the new Season of _Red Dwarf_, the "Posse" have acquired quite a few items -- The nanobots, the Luck Virus, the Time Wand, etc. -- that between them can pretty much do anything and provide a predictable cop-out quick-fix whenever they're in a tight spot. Just an observation. :) *** END SPOILERS *** NON-OZZY COMPUTER WORDS: Thanks to everyone for the Melissa info. A question for Windows experts: Why is cut, copy, delete unreliable on single-lined text that was highlighted from left-to-right? Is this a bug in Windows 95? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 8 - 9, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:27:05 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Money in Oz and the Land of Ev Even though we find little evidence that money is used in Oz in the Baum books,there is plenty of evidence in Thompson's books. *.In -Cowardly Lion of Oz- Mustafa sells all his stone lions and becomes rich *.In -Lost King of Oz- the Kimbles in Kimbaloo become very rich by their sale of buttons and flowers. They are only two simple examples. There are many more in the other books as well. But these are two main ones, as they gaina major profit by selling the items. Yet in -Road to Oz- Tinman says that money is never used in Oz. Maybe Ozma found it was not appropriate to live that way, and maybe she changed her rules. Another thing is, if the Land of Ev is located at the northwest of Oz, then Ozma should return to Oz from either the Gillikin Country or the Winkie Country right? Well then, what was Ozma doing in the Munchkin Country when she returned from Langwidere's castle in -Ozma of Oz-? I guess thats why the maps were drawn backwards with the Munchkins in the west and the Winkies in the east. Unless Ozma lost her way like Ruth Berman pointed out a few years ago. BTW, how do you pronounce the name Princess Langwidere. Is it pronounced Langwider, or Langwideya? --Gehan Cooray ============================================================================ === "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:20:43 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy matters The Good Witch of the North: Here is a quote from -Wizard of Oz- which will tell you what I mean: Osacr tells Dorothy and the others: "Fourtunately, the wiitches of the north and south were good, and I knew they would do me no harm!" What did I tell you? This proves that there was another GWN before Orin was enchanted. I'm glad that Ozma told Dave that it was Locasta, butwhy didnt Thompson think that far? She didnt think straight in most of her books..... Ruth: I like your iedia that Orin may have still been called the GWN if she still remembered her magic and all that stuff, but she would have come to the EC with Ceeriobed and Jack Snow doesnt say that. Chris Dulabone told me that there have been some non-canonical Oz books in which Glinda's sister Belinda became the GWN after Orin, but Belinda was too young and so someone called Maggie took the job. Maybe it was one of them, I dont know. This is all from an Oz-as-History POV, but I know that Jack Snow was only trying to forget Thompson's work. But by doing so, he's confusing us all..... David Godwin: What? Billie Burke as the GWN? Noooooooo! The GWN we find in -Wizard of Oz- has much more scense that the squeaky Glinda we find in the MGM Movie. Maybe she's another one of those silly witches who get mixed up and muddled up very quickly. What do you say? LOL! Scarecrow's beanpole: I wanted to beleive that the beanpole was not magic at all at first, and that the Wizard who enchanted Chang Wang Woe simply said it was, just to raise the Silver Islanders hopes of their beloved emporer's return. But, trouble is, Glinda's Magic Rechord book says that the emperor of the Silver Islands really did return, and the GBR is usually correct. I still prefer to beleive that it was all a joke of the wizard who enchanted Chang Wang Woe, and maybe the GBR simply recorded what the Silver Islanders beleived.....Its really confusing, but thats the only reasonable answer which satisfies me. I think RPT tried to be too smart, but failed miserably. Hey, I'm just joking! No offense! Sir Hokus: I still havent read -Yellow Knight-. Maybe that will help me figure out the Sir Hokus mystery...... Tyler: Well, no, I'm not really favouring Jack Snow, but I just dont agree with some of RPT's iedias. Thats all! I wouldnt say that she was the best RHOZ(Royal Historian of Oz). I'd vote for Baum, but hey! Opinions are different! BTW, what did you mean that Jack Snow mixed up two of the Baum characters as one character? Nathan: Thanks for deciding to join my game! I have all the help I can get! I thought I posted a list of availble, or rather, unavalable characters, but maybe you skipped it or missed it. There are billions of characters who are available, and are far too long to list, so I'll just name the unavaible characters: Dorothy Betsy Trot Polychrome Ozma Scraps Captain Salt Captain Bill Eureka Bungle the Glass Cat The Adepts Jellia-Jamb Reebad (Bandit from -Ojo in Oz-) Jinjur Princess Langwidere Queen Coo-ee-oh Proffessor Wogglebug Tiktok Shaggy Man Woozy Ruggedo the *old* Nome King The Wizard who invented the hollow tube in -Tiktok of Oz-. (I cant recall his name. Sorry) Billina Oz Poll: I've planned a weekly poll on the Digest. Heres this weeks poll: If you could live in Oz, which part of Oz would you live in? (Choose from the Gillikin Country,Munchkin Country,Quadling Country and Winkie Country. Lets rule out the Emerald City, for lots of folk might want to live there) I'd choose the Quadling Country...... --Gehan Cooray ======================================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:37:18 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte Subject: Coronation Sequence Gehan: <> Yes, she wrote a note to her readers. Personally, I like her letters to the reader better than Baum's; she seems more open to comments, (I always feel bad when I see her address...for some reason I wanted to write to her after I read -Kabumpo-) et cetera. <> Ok, let's go back to figure one: when you _first_ saw RTOZ, did you recognize all the Oz characters? Did you say "Wow...that looks like Polychrome or Johnny Kwikstep." I know the first time I saw it they were just normal Ozites. So in other words, the average person watching RTOZ in 1985 had no clue whatsoever where/who the Oz characters were, unless, of course, they read the books. <> Something, that really annoys me, though, is that in the books, everytime a person disagrees with Ozma, they are automatically made into the 'villain'. So, here's the conclusion: Ozma's economic system may work in Oz because it doesn't actually exist. Though it probably won't stop me from writing "Ayn Rand in Oz." :-) Peace!! -Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:23:46 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-99 J.L.: > Dorothy saved large portions of Oz from tyrants and Ozma's court from >Roquat before becoming a princess. Well, in a sense, but Billina was really the prime mover in the rescue of Ozma's court. It's true that it was Dot who took the Magic Belt from Roquat and used it to enable their escape, but only when Billina told her to. I've always thought Ozma made Dorothy a princess because she loved her rather than as a reward for what she'd done for Oz. >I can >think of only four American emigres who don't live there, and they all live >nearby: Bob, Notta, Jenny, and Bucky.) Shaggy has a suite there, but seems to spend most of his time wandering around Oz. (This is, incidentally, one of my justifications for making the interval between _Road_ and _Emerald City_ only a few months - Shaggy states that since he came to Oz he'd hardly been outside the EC, and I can't believe that an inveterate wanderer of his sort would have waited a whole year before starting to explore a new country.) And I don't think there's any evidence that Shaggy's brother lives in the palace, though there's none that he doesn't, either. I don't know if you'd count Bill the weathercock as an American emigre, but I believe he settles in Ragbad. >A fairer question may be whether one >would like to live in a small, hemispherical, two-hearth cottage outside >but within sight of the Emerald City; raise a crop which would all go to >Ozma; and be able to obtain anything one would want for the rest of an >infinite life from her storehouses. Or live and work in the Emerald City making clothes, publishing books, or whatever else those city-dwellers - who make up about 10% of the population of Oz - do as their contribution to the general welfare. >It's like the old joke about an economist walking along >the sidewalk, and spotting what looks like a ten-dollar bill on the ground; >she walks on, thinking, "That can't be a ten-dollar bill, because if it >were a ten-dollar bill, someone would have picked it up by now." That's specifically an "efficient-market" economist, not just any economist. Like supply-side economists, efficient-market economists endorse a theory that doesn't seem to have any close association with reality, however logical it may sound. >I think the biggest fault with Ozma's system of government is how its >centralization makes it vulnerable. As several books show, capturing or >removing only a few high-ranking people (Ozma, Wizard, Glinda) seems to >cripple the system. So far a combination of luck and diligence has allowed >Ozma's friends to restore her to power, but distributed authority still >seems safer in the long run. Then again, I have the psychology of a mortal. This same problem seems to occur even in the smaller kingdoms of Oz. If anything happens to the legitimate ruler, the successor almost invariably turns out to be a Baddie. You'd expect that there'd be more resistance to this than there seems to be - think of Jinxland, Flathead Mountain, Pumperdink (in _Purple Prince_), Seebania, Keretaria -even, to a degree, Oogaboo, though Ann isn't as bad as the others. Ragbad seems to do OK when Fumbo loses his head, but then there wasn't much for it to lose ( largely because Fumbo wasn't much of a king). And Regalia gets along OK without a king while Randy is on his quest, but they're apparently set up for that kind of situation; it's not an unexpected coup. Loved your picture of the farmer-insect negotiations! Gehan: >Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like Baum >did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any >published in the Reilly&Lee editions? Yes, usually if not always. I haven't checked all the books to make sure she kept up the practice throughout her tenure as RH, but she did in every book I spot-checked. For that matter, I know that Neill, Snow, and Cosgrove also wrote introductory notes, and I think the McGraws did. (Incidentally, that long signature quote from Poison Ivy is getting a little stale by now, especially since we usually see it two or three times per Digest; think you could drop it?) Ruth: >David Hulan: Interesting suggestion of a volcano as a possible cause >for heavy darkness. I think Neill's bakery-volcano in "Lucky Bucky" is >the only mention of a volcano in an Oz book? Or, no, there's one on >Blaze's Fire Island in "Grampa." And the Fire-fall in "Hungry Tiger" and >maybe the Thunder Mountain of Lightning Lake mentioned in "Wishing >Horse" might be volcanic, too. There's also Lavaland in _Captain Salt_, and wasn't the ogre imprisoned in one in _Pirates_? I'd have to check that. I don't think there's an active volcano in Oz proper, though. Nathan: >"Return to Oz" was recently brought up on the They Might Be Giants >mailing list, and someone mentioned Tik-Tok as a "satanic looking >ticking thing." I wonder if whoever mentioned it had read _Wicked_ and was confusing it with RTO. In it, "tiktoks" _are_ satanic ticking things. David G.: >This is all explained in _Yellow Knight_ (where he has nothing to do >with King Arthur), but readers of _Royal Book_ when it first appeared would >have had to wait another nine years for this clarification. Although anyone who knows anything about medieval history would know that Hokus is entirely inconsistent with Arthurian times (which, if Arthur was historical at all, was no later than 7th century). All that forsoothly speech, not to mention the kind of armor he's described as wearing, dates him to probably the 15th or 16th century - to the extent that it dates him to any real period of history as opposed to Scott-style romances. >War in Oz: >Another new/old topic. Oz being some sort of utopia, we can hardly imagine >any serious war taking place there. The closest we come to it in any of the >FF is Jinjur's revolution, and that can be called "war" only by the most >liberal definitions. The Gnome King's invasion doesn't count as a war >because there is never any fighting. Ann doesn't get very far at all in her >plans to conquer Oz in _Tik-Tok_. In _Glinda_, there is the threat of war, >but no actual hostilities other than Coo-ee-oh's abortive attack that ends >so poorly for her. *But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within >living memory. I think you could count the invasion by the Gnome King in _Pirates_, and even more so Mogodore's capture of the EC in _Jack Pumpkinhead_, as "wars," though there wasn't any serious fighting that we know of. Still, we know that many of the Ozites were captured, and I'd imagine that at least a few of them put up a token resistance. Grampa is described as a veteran of a hundred battles, which implies a fairly constant state of war in Oz in pre-Ozma days - if we assume that lifespans pre-Ozma were somewhat comparable to our own. I suspect that most of those "battles" were fights between ten or a dozen on a side, more comparable to a gang rumble than a war, but apparently whoever ruled the various regions of Oz pre-Ozma didn't have much control over most of their subjects. Gehan again: >Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? Sir Hokus turns out to have no connection to King Arthur, but unless you want a spoiler for _Yellow Knight_ I can't say more. (And if you want the spoiler, I'll tell you in private E-mail, since others on the Digest might not.) >BTW, since -Royal Book- discussions seem to have ended, how about setting a >date for -Kabumpo in Oz-? Sounds good to me. >I was just thinking,how can..... >Toto be the only dog in Oz? >Billina be the only hen in Oz? >Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? I think we have to conclude that Baum was just mistaken in those statements. We know that there was a rooster in the EC at the time of _Wizard_, and unless it was a last survivor there were presumably hens around as well. Also, Dorothy eats scrambled eggs in the meal she has near the EC, which implies there were chickens around though I suppose they might have been goose eggs or something of the sort. I suspect Billina was putting on airs; she was pretty good at that. I don't think there's any statement aside from hers that she was the only hen in Oz. There may not have been any dogs or horses in or near the EC, though we know there were plenty of dogs and horses in View Halloo (in _Merry-Go-Round_); Chalk says he originated in Oz; there's Highboy; and there are horses in Corumbia and Corabia, though at the time Baum was writing they were all enchanted. I suspect other horses are mentioned in other books (there's a blue mule in _Scalawagons_, and where there's a mule there must have been a horse, or more accurately a mare), but those come to mind quickly. >Secondly, Dorothy tells Shaggy Man that Uncle Henry whips Toto in -Road to >Oz-, and she tells "her gracious highness" Queen Coo-ee-oh that she whips >Eureka. How can anyone be so cruel? I can imagine lashing a bull or a horse, >but I've never heard of anyone whipping an innocent dog or a cat. And such >small ones too. Any iedias? I expect the whipping was done with something like a willow switch, which stings but doesn't do any real damage. Corporal punishment in general was a lot more common back in the first half of this century than it is now, at least in the US. I know I got switched fairly often when I was a kid, not to mention occasional paddlings with bare hand (my father) or a hairbrush (my mother), and my family wasn't unusual. If they did it to kids, why be surprised that they'd do it to animals? David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Oz Stuff Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:59:02 PDT J. L. Bell: >In both senses, however, I think Zeb and Woot just barely qualify, >though the former is overshadowed by Dorothy and the latter is so >self-effacing >that his personality remains invisible even after folks can see his >body >again. That's not to say they deserve to become princes, but neither >does Ojo, and Thompson makes him one. Yes, but Ojo's crown is hereditary, and not awarded based on merit. Gehan: >I guess it was silly of Jack Snow to ignore Thompsons books. As I >said, I >dont approve to _most_ of Thompsons works, but her stories are fun, >and I >accept most of them. Still, wont Jack Snow feel hurt if the other >historians ignored his work? Hmmmm? Well, based on what I know of Thompson's opinion of Snow, she's probably glad that he ignored her work. From an Oz-as-history point of view, though, I agree with you. >Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like >Baum >did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any >published in the Reilly&Lee editions Yes, the R&L editions do contain Thompson's letters to her readers. I don't know why Del Rey left them out (especially when you consider that they left Baum's letters in the books). Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? I'm assuming you mean "knights," not "nights." As for your answer, I'd say that it requires a: ********************SPOILER FOR _YELLOW KNIGHT_********************** Neither, unless the King of Corumbia is named Arthur (in which case he's both) ************************END OF SPOILER******************************* >I was just thinking,how can..... >Toto be the only dog in Oz? >Billina be the only hen in Oz? >Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? Baum frequently made such sweeping generalizations, even when they contradicted what he had already written. There was a green hen in _Wizard_ and a green dog in _Land_. I suppose these animals could have died by the time that Billina and Toto arrived in Oz, but it seems unlikely. It's probably a good idea to disregard Baum's sweeping generalizations. Ruth: >I think Neill's bakery-volcano in "Lucky Bucky" is >the only mention of a volcano in an Oz book? Or, no, there's one on >Blaze's Fire Island in "Grampa." And the Fire-fall in "Hungry Tiger" >and >maybe the Thunder Mountain of Lightning Lake mentioned in "Wishing >Horse" might be volcanic, too. There's also the Lavalanders' volcano in _Captain Salt_. I'm not sure if any of these is close enough to Oz to have caused the "storm" in _Royal Book_, though. David Hulan: >*But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within >living memory. Otherwise, what would be the function of the Tin >Soldier? Why would any soldiers be needed at all? I suppose the Tin Soldier could have been a guard. I think it's likely that there were some wars in not-too-ancient hoztory, though. Jeremy: >Mombi's threat to turn Snip into a sixpence coin doesn't mean money >was still used in Oz--believe me, I'd hate to be turned into a >shilling even though shillings aren't used for currency in the US! Yes, but Mombi specifically said that she'd spend Snip at the next village after enacting the transformation. -- May you live in interesting times, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:22:36 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz ********** SPOILER FOR OJ O IN OZ ********** John Bell: In the strictest sense of Oz-as-history, Ojo never really "became" a prince. It turns out that he had always been one, and only now just found out. He did not receive his title as a reward for some deed, but instead he got it by right of birth, as they used to say. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Battle of happiness: Dave Hardenbrook claims that Ozma has a 100% Job Approval Rating, while Gehan says that it is a slightly more modest 85%. We need to send in the folks from Gallup, or maybe John Zogby. :-) Gehan: A cynic would say that if Jack Snow wanted his works to be un-ignored by others, he would have intentionally left them in the Public Domain, which he did not. Still, his two books do not really impinge on Oz history in any major way. That is, Oz is pretty much the same after his books as it was before. He did not alter the ruling hierarchy, for example, nor did he change the role/persona of any pre-existing characters. For the most part, his books take place outside Oz, so that future authors, even if they specifically wanted to remain true to Snow, would in reality have little to worry about. David Godwin Wrote: > Speaking of which, if you belong to any lists, such as Gehan's, it is a > horrible mistake to have software that automatically answers e-mail when > you are away for some period (the e-mail equivalent of voice mail). The > automatic reply goes on the list and is in turn sent to you as a member of > hat list, which provokes another answer to the list until everyone on the > list is flooded with zillions of copies of your "I'm not at home right now" > message. I got this information from a guy who was starting up a list. Oh, yea gods, is this true! I had a similar experience with someone who is a member of another mailing list. We changed the program so that it would send auto-replies to everybody on the list except for the person who sent it. Gehan: ********** SPOILER FOR YELLOW KNIGHT ********** In _Kabumpo_, it was implied that Hokus was one of Arthurs Knights, not necessarily related to him. In _Yellow Knight-, we find that he has no relation to Arthur or England at all, but is rather from a heretofore unknown kingdom in Oz ********** END OF SPOILER ********** Gehan: You seem to be mixing the ideas of not liking a story based on the quality of the writing, and rejecting a book as not being "true Oz". There are several Oz books that I do not like at all, yet which I view as Historically Accurate. By the same token, there are several books that I greatly enjoy, yet which I must reject as being Accurate Ozzy history. The two truly are not one and the same. Gehan (round three): There are dogs, horses, etc. in Oz in the later books. From an Oz-as-history POV, I assume that Baum based his early statements on quick observations and Dorothy's information about the immediate area, and he must have assumed that things were the same all over Oz. The phrase "whip" has meant many things in history. Dorothy may have been referring to Henry and herself cuffing the animals when they misbehave as opposed to actual lashes with a whip, which, if done a lot, could seriously damage or kill a small animal. Gehan one more time: I don't know if it's ever stated that all living things in Oz can talk. As far as I know, it's just animals, and fish may not come under that definition in Oz. Dave: Cut Copy and Paste? I've never had any problems with these operations. Is there a specific software product that you're using? Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:25:29 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: More Ozzy Things I agree that the name Langwidere came from Languid+Dear or Languid+air, but Princess Langwidere is not at all languid. Someone said that the reason they choose Mombi as the villainess in RTOZ and not someone like Coo-ee-oh/Anne/Jinjur or Langwidere was because the story was adapted from Ozma of Oz and Land of Oz. Well, Jinjur is a character from -Land of Oz- and Langwidere is a character from -Ozma of Oz-. David Godwin: You said that Mombi doesnt look cunning because she doesnt wear her own head. Come on, she wears it soon after Dorothy steals her ruby key and the powder of life.... BTW, is Eric Shanower on the Digest? Thanks, Ciao! --Gehan Cooray ================================ "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Calgary Herald Web Server Instance Subject: There's no place like home . . .unless you live in Liberal, Kansas, the proud home of Wizard of Oz-heaven The following URL was sent to you by earlabbe@juno.com: There's no place like home . . .unless you live in Liberal, Kansas, the proud home of Wizard of Oz-heaven Click on the following URL if it's hot linked, or copy and paste it into your browser's location/netsite field. http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/stories/990403/2443726.html Additional comments from the sender: Article of interest. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 07:29:17 EDT Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Oz Theme Park From: "Earl C. Abbe" MIKE HENDRICKS: At last, a little Oz scrutiny By MIKE HENDRICKS - Columnist The Kansas City Star Date: 04/06/99 22:15 Wait, let's see that article again, only this time with my glasses on. Can that be? One of our fearless leaders is actually standing up to the Oz boys? Was that really Johnson County Commissioner Johnna Lingle saying Oz shouldn't get the Sunflower Army Ammunition Plant if Oz won't accept full responsibility for environmental cleanup? If I wasn't so cynical, I'd say this is a sign that the Oz theme park development is finally getting the scrutiny it deserves, if not in Topeka then at least in Johnson County. >From Day One the county's position has been that whoever gets control of Sunflower should accept all the land and be responsible for cleaning up all 9,000 acres. Oz had seemed to go along -- in its public pronouncements, anyway. Behind the scenes, however, Oz has been trying to accept less responsibility. Oz wants to buy the land in stages. If approved by federal and state officials, that would mean no assurance of a full environmental cleanup. "It's unacceptable," Lingle told a reporter last week. "The sole reason the county was supporting the (Oz sales tax) legislation was for the remediation of the entire 9,000 acres." OK, it wasn't exactly a searing attack, but it was something -- for a change. Months have zipped by with hardly anyone in a position of authority asking pointed questions about the $771 million plan to build the Oz theme park. In Topeka only two members of the Johnson County legislative delegation were willing to lie down in front of the Oz steamroller. Rep. Bob Tomlinson of Roeland Park and Sen. Karin Brownlee of Olathe voted against a bill that would allow Oz to use sales tax money to retire $250 million in bonds in the next 30 years. To be fair, other members of the delegation saw to it that the Oz bill had some safeguards -- requirements that the project pay school property taxes and that Oz not be allowed to pocket sales tax receipts above the project cost. But they voted for Oz, anyway, partly on faith. Faith that Oz might be good for tourism, and faith in the conventional wisdom that Oz is the only developer willing to acquire all 9,000 acres and clean up the environmental mess left by the Army. If not Oz, goes this theory, then someone else will come in and cherry-pick the least-contaminated land, which would leave the rest to be cleaned up by the federal government perhaps decades from now. Now we learn that Oz wants to pick some cherries itself. The plan is to buy the least-contaminated land now for the theme park, then take on the rest of the property later. Why? Because the developers can't afford up to $5 million for premiums on cleanup insurance. That's right, Oz's high rollers can't or won't raise what amounts to pocket change, less than 1 percent on a project that's priced at three-quarters of a billion dollars. All together now: Hmm. Is it any wonder people find parallels with an outfit called Trizec? Trizec, you'll remember, promised to redevelop Union Station if allowed to construct an office building next door. The building went up. Nothing was done for the station. Kansas City had to sue the developer to gain control so Union Station could be saved at a much greater cost. Oz is making promises that it will eventually clean up all the land. Johnna Lingle is right to be skeptical. Promises alone won't cut it. -- Mike Hendricks' column appears Monday, Wednesday and Friday. To reach him, call (816) 234-7708 or send e-mail to mhendricks@kcstar.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:02:35 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: The best movie ever! Is there anyone on the digest who thinks that the MGM Wizard of Oz Movie is the best movie ever? What do you guys vote as the best movie? I vote for: My Fair Lady Sound of Music Titanic I enjoyed the MGM movie, but I wont call it the best movie ever..... --Gehan Cooray ========================================= "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 99 10:03:59 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: more good northern witchery of oz J. L. Bell: Nice riff on negotiations for weevil accommodation. David Godwin: Nice monstrous crow theory. Tyler Jones: You cite the conversation between Ozma and the Wizard (in "Dorothy and the Wizard") as backing up the idea suggested by his comments (in "Wizard") that the two Good and two Wicked Witches were all ruling in Oz at the time of his first arrival. It sort of does, but, then, it sort of doesn't. Ozma says that there were four Wickeds ruling up until the time of the Wizard's arrival. The Wizard (apparently) contradicts her, saying that "at that time" there were two Goods and two Wickeds. Ozma then (apparently) reverses herself and agrees with him, saying that there had been (i.e., before "that time," i.e., sometimes before the Wizard's arrival) the two overthrows of Wickeds by Goods. Perhaps Baum meant the reader to understand that Ozma was wrong (perhaps only slightly wrong, with the four Wicked ruling up until shortly before the Wizard's arrival) and that she was correcting herself, prompted by the Wizard's remark. But if that's what he intended, it isn't really clear. The sequence looks like an authorial inconsistency that needs to be explained away in some fashion. And it looks to me as if RPT was explaining it away by assuming that the Wizard's "at that time" doesn't mean "at the precise time I arrived" but "sometime during the time I was ruling, when the political divisions of the country became clear to me," and by assuming that Ozma's reversal does not mean, "Oh, you're right, the overthrows happened before you got here," but means that both Ozma and the Wizard are unsure of the exact dates of the overthrows except for being in agreement that the overthrows happened sometime after the Wizard's arrival. Given the inconsistency of what Baum has the Ozma and the Wizard saying (and the lack of timing details in "Wizard" to show if the all the comments in the sequence refer to events at the time of his arrival, or if they describe events following in a sequence after his arrival), RPT's assumption that the overthrow of Mombi could have happened fairly late during the Wizard's reign seems justifiable as a way of reconciling Baum's inconsistency. * [spoiler note: comments assume knowledge of "Giant Horse"] * Of course, if it's assumed that Ozma was wrong and that the Wizard was correcting her in that conversation, then it would follow that the Good Witch of the North was already ruling at the time of the Wizard's arrival. And if it's assumed that Orin was wrong about how much time had elapsed, and it had been 2-3 times longer than she thought, then the events fit well enough for timing. But reconciling Baum's inconsistency that way raises another problem in terms of "Giant Horse," because Philador needs to get born before Orin disappears, and needs to be still a child at the time of "Giant Horse." So if he's born that early, there needs to be some additional theory offered for how it happened that he stayed a child during the years when the Wizard (between the his arrival and departure) was aging from a young man to an old one and when the various other examples of aging-and-death-in-Oz-before-Ozma's-accession that have been noted occurred. It could be done (perhaps some special magic spell for Philador alone), but on the whole it seems to me that RPT's intended dating of events works well enough with Baum's (inconsistent) dating. Or, of course, the "hertofore-unknown Good Witch in the Northern parts" you mentioned as a possibile way of explaining the "Dorothy/Wizard" conversation would work, too, and the said unknown could be Dave Hardenbrook's Locasta.] [end "Giant Horse" comments] Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:08:21 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz Gehan wrote: >Tell me, is Sir.Hokus King Arthur's son or one of his nights? No, as you'll find out when you read _The Yellow Knight of Oz_. >Did RPT write a note to her readers at the beginning of the book like Baum >did? I have the Del Rey editions, and I didnt see any. Are there any >published in the Reilly&Lee editions? There is no message to the readers in any of the Del Rey editions of the RPT books, but there is starting with _Captain Salt_ in the BoW editions. As for _Royal Book_, the publishers tried to palm it off as having been written by Baum with a little editing help from Thompson, no naturally there would not have been any personal note from her to the readers in that one. >I was just thinking,how can..... >Toto be the only dog in Oz? >Billina be the only hen in Oz? >Saw-Horse be the only horse in Oz? These statements are made in various books, but they are flatly contradicted in others, and with no explanation. The real mystery is how Billina can keep having chicks if there are no roosters around. >The only such country I've heard of, is in -Dick >Whittington-, a land with no cats. How about Ireland, with no snakes? Or Minnesota, with no kalidahs? >Secondly, Dorothy tells Shaggy Man that Uncle Henry whips Toto in -Road to >Oz-, and she tells "her gracious highness" Queen Coo-ee-oh that she whips >Eureka. How can anyone be so cruel? I don't think she means it literally. No one in their right mind would use a whip on a cat or a small dog. She just means "punish" or "spank." David Hulan wrote: > From an >Oz-as-history POV, if RPT is indeed a Royal Historian of Oz then the events >in her books, however "un-fit," are the way things happened and the >challenge is to come up with a rational explanation of them. You can argue >that Baum was telling real Oz history and Thompson (and presumably the >other FF writers) were writing fiction, but then you can't use anything >from the later books in your vision of Oz. From the OzHist POV, this once again brings up the question of sources. How did the information that went into the books get from Oz to the various Royal Historians? If they saw only as through a glass, darkly, then their stories might not be altogether accurate. In Baum's case, we might say that he started out getting his information from Dorothy after her return to the USA, except for _Land_. Then, after ECOz, he started getting accounts by wireless, with the Shaggy Man as operator. As for _Land_, when Dorothy wasn't present, it's anybody's guess. Since the Wizard is given a bad rap in this book, the source might have been somewhat unreliable. Letters delivered by carrier pigeon from Mombi, perhaps pretending to be Ozma or Glinda? (Baum was a Theosophist. Mdm. Blavatsky, founder of the movement, claimed to get letters from the Hidden Masters. The method of delivery was that they would just suddenly appear out of thin air. Perhaps something similar occurred in Baum's case.) Then, after Baum passed away, did RPT still get her stories via wireless, or did she rely on some other (perhaps less reliable) method? I don't believe she ever hinted at it. Neill evidently got his tales through a crystal ball loaned him by a drunken genie. Rachel Cosgrove/Payes claimed to get her story (or stories?) from a talking bird who had been to Oz. Now, of course, news from Oz comes by e-mail. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 17:57:21 -0400 From: Mark Brittain [Non-Member of Digest] Subject: TWOO videotape differences Cc: BRITTANMA@appstate.edu Dave: I am doing some original research on TWOO movie, and, early on, became stumped by an oddity about available TWOO videotapes. This is because the the THX and 50th Anniv. videotape versions of the 1939 TWOO movie, are apparently slightly different from the pre-50th videotapes (which I think are all the same footage). According to my experiments with 2 TVs and 2 VCRs, 3 mysterious cuts appear in pre-50ths in comparison with the THX/50ths: (1) very beginning of Munchkinland, when Dorothy opens door (approx. 1 1/2 secs.); (2) very end of Munchkinland (approx. 3 secs.); (3) line "I'm just a very bad wizard" is deleted in Wizard presentation scenes (approx. 3 secs.). THX and 50th Anniv. also contain sepia-toned Kansas, while pre-89s are black and white. My guess: pre-89 videotapes are made from film of one of rereleases of the movie in the 50s, while Turner and company went back to the vaults and procured the original 1939 version without the cuts and with the true Kansas colors for the 50th Anniv. Do you have any ideas or know something I don't? Thank you for your time! baker b. BRITTANMA@APPSTATE.EDU baker b. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:40:35 -0400 From: David Levitan X-Accept-Language: en,ru Subject: Web site address change Hi, I changed my web page address from http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9075/ to http://www.bestweb.net/~dbl/oz/. If you can all please update any links you have, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, David Levitan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:11:40 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz errata A couple of second thoughts: In an earlier Digest, I mentioned Dorothy clicking her heels (while wearing the ruby slippers) before the Cowardly Lion speaks (?) in RTOz. Actually, it's Ozma wearing the slippers and doing the clicking at that point. In a current posting, I mentioned that none of the Del Rey editions of the RPT books had any message from her to the reader, which is true, but I now perceive that there _is_ such a message in the BoW edition of _Kabumpo_ (and one from Maud Gage Baum in the BoW _Royal Book_). In the note in _Kabumpo_, RPT says she just got back from the EC, which would certainly explain how she got the information for the story. Does this mean that Ozma used the Magic Belt or the Wizard's wishing pills to transport the Royal Historian (whoever it might be) from here to there and back again as the occasion demanded? That would blow my "second-hand information" theory (of accounting for contradictions) right out of the water. Oh well. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:33:49 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz coins Jeremy Steadman wrote: >Mombi's threat to turn Snip into a sixpence coin doesn't mean money >was still used in Oz--believe me, I'd hate to be turned into a >shilling even though shillings aren't used for currency in the US! Or in England, anymore. But neither is sixpence a US coin. Further evidence for the "RPT Europeanized Oz" theory! :) - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:15:47 EDT Subject: Ozzy Digest Submission - Oz Theme Park From: "Earl C. Abbe" Worries over Sunflower cleanup dog Oz development bill By JIM SULLINGER - The Kansas City Star Date: 04/07/99 22:15 TOPEKA -- Some Kansas lawmakers are growing worried that Oz Entertainment Co. won't clean up pollution on all 9,065 acres at the Sunflower Army Ammunition Plant near De Soto. Others worry that too many regulations by the state could kill the Oz project entirely. With the legislative session winding down, they say, the next two days will be critical. "We're right on the teeter-totter," said Rep. Bill Mason, a Wichita Republican who leads a six-member panel looking at changes in the Oz legislation. In exchange for the cost of that cleanup, Kansas is preparing to turn over to the company 12 square miles of western Johnson County for development of a $771 million Wonderful World of Oz theme park and resort on 3,500 acres. Bills allowing Oz to collect almost all of the state and local sales tax dollars on most of the 9,065 acres have passed both the House and Senate, but in slightly different forms. A conference committee of three senators and three House members on Wednesday began trying to resolve those differences. No one from Johnson County is on that panel. When the six lawmakers met, one of the committee members, Rep. Jene Vickrey, a Louisburg Republican, said he wanted the bill to require Oz officials to purchase insurance to guarantee cleanup of the entire plant site before the land is turned over to them. That isn't part of the bill now. State officials estimate that such an insurance policy could cost the Oz developers an additional $3 million to $5 million. Oz officials want to take title to the land in stages and only buy cleanup insurance for the land they own. If the high-risk Oz project fails, Vickrey and other lawmakers fear, the rest of the site won't be cleaned up. "The intent by the House was the entire 9,000 acres be cleaned up," Vickrey said. "We ought to have this assurance." But others worry that placing too many restrictions on the developers could quash the entire project. Sen. Alicia Salisbury, a Topeka Republican and panel member, said the bill deals primarily with sales tax financing and that many of the development details should be left to a future redevelopment agreement. That would be negotiated between Oz and two state agencies -- the Kansas Development Finance Authority, or KDFA, and the Kansas Department of Health and Environment. It would include such details as the length of the cleanup effort and the environmental standards for various sections. For example, environmental officials say it is not practical for some areas to be cleaned up using residential standards, which are more stringent than industrial standards. Rebecca Floyd, KDFA's general counsel and a state negotiator, said the authority will insist that such an agreement require prepaid insurance for the cleanup of the entire site. She said Johnson County commissioners would have veto power over any agreement between Oz and the state. Dana Fenton, Johnson County's lobbyist, said the county opposes piecemeal cleanup at the site but has not taken a position on the Vickrey amendment. While backing the concept, the state finance authority opposes such a provision being written into law. Some members of the legislative panel worried that it could tie the state's hands during negotiations. Bud Burke, a lobbyist for Oz, said there may be a way to buy insurance that guarantees the cleanup of the entire site but doesn't require the entire cost to be paid in advance. "That option just wouldn't be available," Burke said, if Vickrey's suggestion becomes law. "Oz has given and given and given and agreed to amendment after amendment," said Burke, a former state senator from Olathe. "We need to trust the state agencies to do the job." Burke, who also has a contract to lobby for Johnson County, said he wasn't certain what position Oz officials would take on the Vickrey proposal. He also said he wasn't sure that county commissioners had taken a position. If Oz and the commissioners take opposite sides, Burke said, he would resign his county lobbying post. Other amendments discussed by the six-member panel would further protect the state and local officials from liability for the cleanup if the Oz project failed. To reach Jim Sullinger, Johnson County political and government reporter, call (816) 234-7701 or send e-mail to jsullinger@kcstar.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 11:40:01 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ POLL: Gehan wrote: >If you could live in Oz, which part of Oz would you live in? Gillikin Country. I want to live with the Adepts! :) >Is there anyone on the digest who thinks that the MGM Wizard of Oz Movie is >the best movie ever? 'Fraid not me. >What do you guys vote as the best movie? My "short list": Citizen Kane Thelma and Louise Singin' in the Rain Contact The Thief of Bagdad (Korda's) It's a Wonderful Life Lost Horizon Ninotchka 84 Charing Cross Road Hopscotch Hot Millions A Passage to India Beauty and the Beast (Cocteau's) The Lady Eve THOMPSON AND _KABUMPO IN OZ_: Lisa wrote: >Yes, she wrote a note to her readers. Personally, I like her letters to >the reader better than Baum's; she seems more open to comments, (I >always feel bad when I see her address...for some reason I wanted to >write to her after I read -Kabumpo-) et cetera. I liked how Baum titled his notes "To My Readers" as opposed to RPT's "Dear Boys and Girls" (the former acknowledges adult Oz fans). David G. wrote: >In the note in >_Kabumpo_, RPT says she just got back from the EC, which would certainly >explain how she got the information for the story. Does this mean that Ozma >used the Magic Belt or the Wizard's wishing pills to transport the Royal >Historian (whoever it might be) from here to there and back again as the >occasion demanded? That would blow my "second-hand information" theory (of >accounting for contradictions) right out of the water. It seems to me odd that RPT would be invited to Oz whereas the great discover of Oz himself would have to rely on wireless telegraph. Frankly, I don't believe it for one second. I don't think any Historian made it to Oz (in their lifetimes of course -- afterward, however...). And FWIW, my info from Oz is E-mailed to me from Jellia and the Adepts. BCF: Speaking of _Kabumpo in Oz_, someone suggested that the time has come to set a date for discussion. Okay, how about two weeks from Monday (Apr. 26)? BTW, I'll just warn everyone: This will be the last Oz Book of Current Focus for some time that will be fairly easy for you to come by (i.e. that you can get from Books of Wonder or one of the large book chains)... From here on in, if your library doesn't have them, you'll have to order them from the International Wizard of Oz Club. (The next after _Kabumpo_ will be _The Cowardly Lion of Oz_ if you want to get a head start.) SOS: Okay, I need some help from you all. I suppose many of you ( well, maybe not :) ) are wondering "When will Dave's book about the Good Witch of the North be published??" Well, one of the reasons for the delay is that I've hit a roadblock regarding the cover picture: I (not unreasonably, I think) think a book about the Good Witch of the North should feature the Good Witch of the North on the cover. Chris however wants the cover to be graced by "familiar" Oz characters (e.g. Ozma, Dorothy, the Scarecrow, etc, etc.). So I'm asking you all if you can suggest a "compromise" design for the cover that might show the GWN, the Adepts, Dan, *and* other, more readily recognizible Ozites without creating a picture that looks too cluttered. If someone can come up with a design that I use, I'll send them a free copy of the book when it comes out. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 10 - 16, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:31:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: OZ IN THE STRANGEST PLAce i was at sams club and there were 4 oz boks there hard covers cheap like 8 bucks wiht all ( least i think it was all) the pictures end pics etc etc) including some in color and these editions were not books of wonder editions ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Ozzy Matters Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 17:07:25 PDT Gehan: >I like your iedia that Orin may have still been called the GWN if she >still >remembered her magic and all that stuff, but she would have come to >the EC with Ceeriobed and Jack Snow doesnt say that. Maybe Cheeriobed was too busy to attend the party, or maybe he did attend, and Snow just didn't mention it. >Chris Dulabone told me that >there have been some non-canonical Oz books in which Glinda's sister >Belinda >became the GWN after Orin, but Belinda was too young and so someone >called Maggie took the job. Belinda first appeared in _The Enchanted Gnome of Oz_, by Greg Hunter (I think), a Buckethead book that is now out of print. Maggie is a good witch in Melody Grandy's _Disenchanted Princess_. She doesn't seem to be known outside of the Seven Blue Mountains area in that book, but this might change in the second book of Melody's trilogy (if it's ever released). >BTW, what did you mean that Jack Snow mixed up two of the >Baum characters as one character? Snow considered the Guardian of the Gates and the Soldier with Green Whiskers to be the same character, even though they were clearly two different people in Baum's and Thompson's books. >If you could live in Oz, which part of Oz would you live in? Oh, any of the major countries would be fine with me. The Winkie Country comes to mind, but I'm not exactly sure why. Isn't yellow supposed to be a relaxing color? Maybe that has something to do with it. >Someone said that the reason they choose Mombi as the villainess in >RTOZ and >not someone like Coo-ee-oh/Anne/Jinjur or Langwidere was because the >story was adapted from Ozma of Oz and Land of Oz. Well, Jinjur is a >character from >-Land of Oz- and Langwidere is a character from -Ozma of Oz-. I suppose the writers wanted a definite villainess, and Jinjur wouldn't really have fit the bill. As for Langwidere, you could argue that she did appear in RTOZ, since the villainess in the movie was just as much like Langwidere as she was like Mombi. Lisa: >Something, that really annoys me, though, is that in the books, >everytime a person disagrees with Ozma, they are automatically made >into the 'villain'. That could be because we haven't really seen a critic of Ozma's system who didn't accompany his criticism with treacherous acts. (The Polit Burro in Greg Gick's non-canonical _Bungle and the Magic Lantern of Oz_ is sort of a non-villainous critic, but he doesn't seem to be entirely serious in his criticisms.) David Hulan: >And I don't think >there's any evidence that Shaggy's brother lives in the palace, >though there's none that he doesn't, either. Didn't Jack Snow state that Shaggy's brother lives in the Gillikin Country? I could be wrong here. >This same problem seems to occur even in the smaller kingdoms of Oz. >If anything happens to the legitimate ruler, the successor almost >invariably >turns out to be a Baddie. You'd expect that there'd be more >resistance to >this than there seems to be - think of Jinxland, Flathead Mountain, >Pumperdink (in _Purple Prince_), Seebania, Keretaria -even, to a >degree, Oogaboo, though Ann isn't as bad as the others. Well, one reason for the lack of resistance could be apathy on the part of the common people. Life for a common Keretarian farmer probably wasn't that different under Kerr than under Kerry. There's also the fact that these countries seem to lack strong resistance leaders. Note that the Pumperdinkians were quite willing to rebel after Kabumpo had returned. Magic is another factor. Mooj seemed to have the people of Seebania in a magical trance, and Faleero had enough power to threaten the Pumperdinkians. David Godwin: >>The only such country I've heard of, is in -Dick >>Whittington-, a land with no cats. > >How about Ireland, with no snakes? Or Minnesota, with no kalidahs? Yes, but Minnesota isn't a country. >Then, after Baum passed away, did RPT >still get her stories via wireless, or did she rely on some other >(perhaps less reliable) method? I don't believe she ever hinted at >it. In the note to the readers at the beginning of _Ojo_, Thompson states that she called Ojo on the "long-distance radio." Snow's method of communication was a television set, according to _Shaggy Man_. Dave Hardenbrook: >I liked how Baum titled his notes "To My Readers" as opposed to RPT's >"Dear Boys and Girls" (the former acknowledges adult Oz fans). Not to mention hermaphroditic children. Nathan _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:26:15 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-09-99 Pronunciation of Languidere: I've always thought of her name as being Lang-wid-eer, but Lang-wid-air makes more sense. This means I'm gonna have to make more silly verses for the _Pronunciad_. I'd love some help. I've already done Guph, Ev, Kalidah and, I think, Ruggedo. What other Oz names lend themselves to alternate pronunciations? If you can't make your own silly rhymes about the potential versions of each name, just gimme the name(s), and I'll be delighted to play with them. Lisa, about RPT: << (I always feel bad when I see her address...for some reason I wanted to write to her after I read -Kabumpo-) et cetera.>> I wish you'd had the chance to do so, Lisa. Her niece tells us that Ruth savored and saved those letters. I believe it. RPT was a loving, loveable pixie of a gal. She probably would have loved hearing from you. I wish I'd written her when I was a kid. I didn't start my correspondence with her until after I'd met her, and by then I was an adult. Not the same thing at all! My response to the last _Digest_ seems to have gotten lost in cyberspace. One more attempt here: John Bell said: << That's not to say they deserve to become princes, but neither does Ojo, and Thompson makes him one.>> True, but RPT was working from a different angle there, trying to fill in the blanks of Ozian history. The situation of a child's living in the middle of a forest with an essentially silent old man screamed "storyline!" to her, I guess. Her premise with Ojo is that he was born royal, not that he earned a royal title. Gehan writes: <> You accept most of Thompson. Snow accepted none of Thompson. You both are entitled to make your own judgments. As for Snow's feeling hurt, I doubt it. He probably was adult enough, when sober, to understand that if he could feel entitled to make such a choice, others could, too. Yes, RPT wrote a letter to her readers as a foreword to each of her books. All of the Oz authors did for each of their books. Tyler Jones wrote to Gehan: <> LOL! Thanks for putting things in proper perspective, Tyler! Ruth writes:<< I think Neill's bakery-volcano in "Lucky Bucky" is the only mention of a volcano in an Oz book? Or, no, there's one on Blaze's Fire Island in "Grampa." And the Fire-fall in "Hungry Tiger" and maybe the Thunder Mountain of Lightning Lake mentioned in "Wishing Horse" might be volcanic, too.>> What about the volcano in _Captain Salt_? The one where he picks up Sali? (I think it's _C.Salt_, isn't it?) {N.B.: I didn't think of the one David Hulan recalled for Ogowan. Score one for you, David!) David Hulan: Yeah, you're right about Zeb. He is pretty brave in getting those Gargoyle wings. I stand--er, sit--corrected.--Robin ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 23:04:49 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte Subject: Useless Oz Ramblings Heighty-Ho Digesters! Gehan: Probably, if I got to live in Oz, I would want to live in the Emerald City. Get up at twelve and start to work at one...take an hour for lunch and at two...I'm done! `Nuff said. :) Dave H., commenting on what country of Oz he would want to live in: <> Ah...is that _with_ the Adepts, Dave? ;-) "Dave, would you PLEASE keep Time to Say Good bye down? It's REALLY wearing on me." "Dave, PLEASE keep your room straight! It's seeping into the hallways." "Dave, SHUT THAT TV OFF, you know it's bad for your eyes." :-) <> The Oz market WAS geared towards children. Gehan yet again. I have to admit the MGM movie is defn. NOT the greatest movie of all time. Here's my go: Wag the Dog Shindler's List Return to Oz The Craft King of Kings Bram Stoker's Dracula David Hulan: << I've always thought Ozma made Dorothy a princess because she loved her rather than as a reward for what she'd done for Oz.>> Well, maybe both. Think about it...in _Ozma_, they just met. They go on an adventure together, become close friends, and then, after Dorothy saves Prince what-his-face...EVRING...she thinks "Well, she saved a person, not to mention she's a great friend...she deserves to be made into a princess." Till we meet again, my friends. Peace!! -Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:29:21 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Matters Dave: You're right, we ARE waiting to read -Locasta-. Since the book is named -Locasta and the three adepts in Oz-, the cover HAS to have a picture of Locasta and the Adepts. I know, have a big picture of Locasta,the Adepts, and Dan in the middle of the cover. Surround this picture, with small pictures, which show some interesting events in the books. Such as, Mombi enchanting Locasta, Ozma with Dan and all that stuff. Nathan: Actually,my Baum books are not published by Del Rey, only the Thompson ones. Some of the Baum books are puffin classics,some are Dover and -Land of Oz- is a watermill classic. Only the Dover editions have the proper illustrations by John Neill. All these books, exept the Watermill edition, have an author's note by Baum. BTW,its not suitable for Thompson to address her readers as "My Dear Boys and Girls". All her readers are not boys and girls. Look at the Digest members for instance. Are they little boys and girls? Tyler: According to -Lost Princess- and -Magic-, fish in Oz can talk. Royal Historians: I agree with Dave, that if the Royal Discoverer of Oz could not visit Oz, neither could Ruth Plumly Thompson. My guess is that Ozma swallowed one wishing pill, and wished all the Ozzy events to enter the minds of the Royal Historians. We are not Royal Historians, so maybe our stories are onky ficticious, but you never know. Ozma may have wished the latest Ozzy events into our minds too. LOL! David Hulan: O.k,I'll remove Poison Ivy's quote and Princess Langwidere's quote and enter two new ones. Oops, one more thing, coming to favorite movies, I remembeered another film which I can name "one of the best movies ever!" :Matilda Ofcourse,I prefer My Fair Lady and Sound of Music. You can watch them over and over again, and you'll never get sick, unlike these latest movies, which are all CRAP! --Gehan Cooray ======================================================== "I think I've had a change of heart. The animal plant toxins had a unique effect on me. They changed my blood with aloe, my skin with chlorophyll, and filled my lips with venom.....One more thing, I'm POIson..... I'm natures arm! Her spirit! Her will! Hell, I am Mother Nature! And the time has come for plants to take back, the world so rightfully ours! Cause its not nice, to fool with Mother Nature!" --Poison Ivy (Batman and Robin. Warner Bros.) "My will is law!" --Princess Langwidere (Ozma of Oz by L.Frank Baum) ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:31:51 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: posted from my new computer David Hulan wrote: <> Which reminded me of the lazy Quadling's wife in PATCHWORK GIRL, obviously planning to do something with those eels she caught. David Hulan wrote: <> One of Dorothy's gifts as a person and functions as a character, it seems to me, is being a catalyst who brings other people together. She doesn't overcome all the challenges in WIZARD by herself, but if she hadn't shared her will to succeed, the Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, and Cowardly Lion would still be moping or paralyzed back in Munchkinland. Dorothy assembles the same sort of band in OZMA; she not only steals the Nome King's belt, but she's at least partly responsible for Billina and the Scarecrow being there to carry out the rest of the conquest (and Tik-Tok has helped earlier). A group that includes Dorothy seems much more formidable than the same crew without her. Ozma has a similar skill in attracting good and loyal advisors, including Dorothy. Despite her fondness for Betsy, Trot, and other people in the palace, she doesn't grant them titles for a long time, if ever. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I think I look best in blue. But merely choosing a quadrant isn't a very revelatory quandary. Where among the various countries and landscapes in Oz would people want to live? In the Munchkin Country, Halidom seems too hierarchical to me, Ozure Isles is too isolated, and there's probably no library near the Royal Athletic College. Maybe I'd live in Shamsbad, if I could dress in the king's old outfits. David Hulan wrote of those various countries in Oz: <> In Jinxland it's clear the people are cowed by the police state. But no peoples in the Oz stories seem to have developed a feeling for democracy that would produce widespread resistance to bad rulers. As in Oz overall, the authority is concentrated at the top. Lisa Mastroberte wrote: <> Usually those antagonists help the process by behaving rather villainously: being coercive, grasping, under-handed, and sometimes plain mean. Few of them seem to have a program for what they'll do when they take over Oz which we could judge against Ozma's. [Jinjur does, but she doesn't oppose Ozma directly. Ruggedo comes up with one to convince the forest animals in MAGIC, but it's clear his own plans don't go much farther than seizing the Magic Belt and turning all the people he hates into dishrags.] Even if we accept that they have a right to exercise their wills through conquest, they give us no reason to root for them. One of the innovations of WONDER CITY [whether it was Neill's or his unnamed editor's] is how Jenny Jump can challenge Ozma's rule without becoming the villain. She has a lot of improvements to make in her life, but she also shows a lot of good qualities and we are meant to root for her. Thompson tried the same sort of daring trick for a while in KABUMPO: Pompa and Kabumpo's plans for marrying a proper princess are obviously going to collide with Ozma's plans for herself. But then Ruggedo rears his head [literally], and everyone's on the same side. Spoiler for OJO: ******************************************** Yes, eventually we learn that Ojo was a prince by birth, and I gladly accept his eponymic book as part of Ozian history. My point was that Thompson as a storyteller was unwilling to leave the boy living and playing on the outskirts of the Emerald City--a perfectly happy ending from Baum, but not a royal one. ******************************************** Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> Here's an Oz-as-history explanation: Baum had family responsibilities during the time he was writing his histories, while Thompson had no young relatives to look after (at least until later in her career), and could therefore travel more freely. That doesn't explain the Baums' trip to Egypt, however. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Sad to say, Snow would probably have felt hurt, or at least down, no matter what people did. Snow's heirs [if he had any] let his copyrights lapse, so ironically it's as easy to use his original characters as Baum's. Not many people have, however, which seems to indicate (a) his reliance on Baum's or Baum-derived characters to drive his plots, and (b) his weakness at drawing personalities as winning as Scraps, Kabumpo, or even Davy Jones. OZ-STORY #2 includes Eric Shanower's "Abby," an interesting update of SHAGGY MAN in which Twink and Tom have grown up and feel quite conflicted about their visit to fairyland. Nathan DeHoff wrote of Polacky the Plunderer: <> It seems more likely that Thompson was ignorant of the slur or blithely disregarded the similarity. There doesn't seem to be a connection between the pirate and Poland. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Best *Hollywood* movies: The General, From Here to Eternity, Singin' in the Rain. This week, at least. David Godwin wrote: <> At least you hope so! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:24:35 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz Gehan's poll: Of the four countries of Oz, I think I'd pick the Munchkin territory. It seems to be the most settled and civilized, thus befitting my advancing years. :) David Hulan wrote: >Although anyone who knows anything about medieval history would know that >Hokus is entirely inconsistent with Arthurian times (which, if Arthur was >historical at all, was no later than 7th century). Sure, but Sir Hokus fits in okay with the fictional Arthurian world of Malory, which is what most kids grew (grow?) up with. As far as I know, there is no account of Arthur's reign that is consistent with historical conditions at the time he must have lived (if he did). If there were, it would be closer to Conan the Barbarian than L'Morte d'Arthur. If Hokus had indeed come from Arthur's court, it would be from a fictional version of it rather than historical reality, and we'd have to use some "other worlds" theory to explain it. Speaking of which, if Oz is on some other planet or in some other dimension, how can anyone communicate with it via wireless telegraphy? Or e-mail? Tyler Jones wrote: > There are >several Oz books that I do not like at all, yet which I view as >Historically Accurate. By the same token, there are several books that I >greatly enjoy, yet which I must reject as being Accurate Ozzy history. I'd be curious to hear which ones. Since I'm sure that this is the case with almost everybody, it might be interesting as a sort of poll or topic of discussion. I'd offer my own list here, but it will require a little thought. Baum vs. Neill: I recently obtained a copy of the reprint of the Oz cutout book that Neill did for R&L, and was surprised to learn from the introduction that LFB was less than happy with Neill's illustrations. Not humorous enough, he said! I wonder what he'd think of Shanower's work, Gehan wrote: >I agree that the name Langwidere came from Languid+Dear or Languid+air, but >Princess Langwidere is not at all languid. Sure she is. Otherwise Dorothy would have been headless right away. She is also more or less indifferent to the fate of the rest of the royal family of Ev. I get the impression that this attitude is more because she is too lazy to care than because she is actually evil. >What do you guys vote as the best movie? Here's my list, alphabetically. However, this is a list of the ten movies I have _enjoyed_ the most, not the ten _best_ from an artistic standpoint. As for that, I'm not qualified to judge. Everyone says Citizen Kane, but I've always found it boring. More so for The Magnificent Ambersons. Even more so for Gone With the Wind. Needless to say, the below list could be extended indefinitely. If I went to fiften, MGMWiz would be there. As for the number one most enjoyable flick, my ideas as to that vary with the time of day and the phase of the moon. The Bride of Frankenstein Crumb Ed Wood Fantasia The Hound of the Baskervilles (Rathbone) King Kong (original) The Maltese Falcon The Seventh Seal The Thief of Baghdad (Fairbanks) The Whole Wide World Dave Hardenbrook wrote: >It seems to me odd that RPT would be invited to Oz whereas the great >discover of Oz himself would have to rely on wireless telegraph. >Frankly, I don't believe it for one second. In that case - and I agree with you - I suppose we can say that RPT was speaking figuratively. She had indeed just returned from a mental journey to the EC, just as one might say after reading a deeply absorbing book about Paris: "Excuse me, but I was off on the Champs Elysees." >So I'm asking you all if you can suggest a "compromise" design for the cover >that might show the GWN, the Adepts, Dan, *and* other, more readily >recognizible >Ozites without creating a picture that looks too cluttered. A cover that shows at least eight people without seeming cluttered. Well, that's a challenge all right. Would you be willing to compromise on the Adepts and Dan? Having worked for a couple of publishers, BTW, it has been my observation that it is the kiss of death to let an author decide on the cover. You listen to an author, you're going to get an ugly cover and no sales. I readily admit that this is even true in my case, with a dog called _Light in Extension_ (Llewellyn, 1992). Better listen to Chris. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:11:01 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Gehan: Ozma returning into the Munchkin Country is one of the few items that is not supported anywhere else. That is the only time when we see the Nome Kingdom next to that quadrant. In every other case, it is next to the Winkie Country. IMHO, there is no need for an Oz-as-history explanation to answer this, unless you want to say that Ozma lost her way or conducted a general tour of Oz before returning to the Emerald City. Baum may have just written down the wrong country. ********** SPOILER FOR GIANT HORSE ********** Gehan wrote: > "Fourtunately, the wiitches of the north and south were good, > and I knew they would do me no harm!" > What did I tell you? This proves that there > was another GWN before Orin was enchanted. Orin was estimating that the whole mess in _Giant Horse_ began 25 years previously. Let's look at what she did: 1. Transformed herself into a beautiful young woman 2. She teleported herself to a beach on an eagle 3. She transformed Orin into a witch 4. She sent Quiberon to isolate the Ozure Isles IMHO, There is no way that she could have done all this after the events in _Land_, since Glinda at that time removed most of her innate powers, although she could still use magical insturments. We can assume that these events took place between _Wizard_ and _Land_, and that "Locasta" (The name Dave is using) was the witch who met Dorothy. OTOH, we can assume that this took place just before _Wizard_ so that Dorothy met Orin. In either case, it is doubtful that these events took place before the Wizard himself arrived in Oz, so I would tend to agree with you that Orin was not the first, original, GWN. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** ********** ANOTHER SPOILER FOR GEHAN (IF HE WANTS IT) ********** Jack Snow combined the Guardian of the Gates and the Soldier with the Green Whiskers into one character, even though Baum made it abundantly clear that they were different people. ********** END OF ANOTHER SPOILER ********** If I could, I would live in the Ozure Isles of the Munchkin Country. The sapphire islands in the middle Lake Orizon surrounded by a mountain enchanted me the first time I ever read it. Ruth: Good comments.Dave's Locasta, while not truly FF-compliant, clears up things just a bit. Dave: How about the commerically popular ones on the front and the "real" GWN on the back? Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Land of Oz Gazette" Subject: Request Link Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:31:33 -0500 Dear Wizard of Oz Fans and Webmasters, My name is Ivan Brillhart, Owner/Publisher of the "Land of Oz Gazette". I would love to list your ozzy site in my Worldwide Wizard of Oz Webpage Links section in my Gazette. To establish your link please visit my website and complete our on-line input form. It's that easy. The faster you do it, the higher your listing will be. Listings are posted by date/time of receipt. If you have already received this email once before please forgive me. I want to make sure that I don't miss anyone. Thank you for your time and have a great day! Land of Oz Gazette 102 East Miami Paola, Kansas 66071-1744 (913) 557-2739 landofoz@midville.com http://www.midville.com/ . ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:45:45 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Oz books Someone said that we cant call an official Oz book un-fit if the events recorded in it are true. Well, as Eric Gjovaag stated,each Oz fan chooses his own set of Oz books. Some Oz fans consider every Oz book official, some accept the entire FF, while some only accept the Baum books. Beleive it or not, James Thurber says that the only true Oz books are -Wizard- and -Land- and the rest is all bunk. I'm not saying that I have anything against RPT, because her stories are fun and really ozzy! I just dont agree with a few of her iedias. Mainly: *.The Scarecrow-Chang Wang Woe thing *.The Good Witch of the North turning out to be Orin and the Gillikin throne going to Joe King and Queen Hyacinth. --Gehan Cooray ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:45:47 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Note Note to all Digesters: I will be away from SriLanka for a week. If anyone is trying to email me, dont worry if you dont receive a reply soon for I wont be back for a week. Thanksyou, --Gehan Cooray ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:36:49 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-09-99 Gehan: >Another thing is, if the Land of Ev is located at the northwest of Oz, then >Ozma should return to Oz from either the Gillikin Country or the Winkie >Country right? Well then, what was Ozma doing in the Munchkin Country when >she returned from Langwidere's castle in -Ozma of Oz-? I guess thats why the >maps were drawn backwards with the Munchkins in the west and the Winkies in >the east. Unless Ozma lost her way like Ruth Berman pointed out a few years >ago. This is an ongoing controversy; the fact is that Baum seems to have moved Ev from one side of Oz to the other sometime after _Ozma_. It is very clear in that book that Ev is to the east of Oz; Dorothy sees the desert when she looks west from her tower prison in Evna, sees the sea when she looks east, and when she returns with the Ozites they are in the Munchkin country when they have crossed the desert. The next bit of evidence, in _Emerald City_, seems to imply that Ev is to the west of Oz; the Nome King tunnels under the Winkie country to get to the Emerald City, and in _Ozma_ the entrance to the Nome King's domain is north of Ev. Robin Hess, in a paper entitled "The Trouble with Our Maps," explains this by postulating magic gates that can instantaneously transport those passing through them, and says that the Nome Kingdom covers most of the underground all around Oz. However, in _Magic_ Kiki Aru's flight plan takes him east from the Munchkin country across the desert to Hiland/Loland, then north across Merryland and Ix, and west across Noland to Ev. So even in Baum there's clear evidence for Ev being to the west/northwest of Oz. As far as later writers are concerned, in _Kabumpo_ Ruggedo ends up on a mountaintop in Ev. And to get there, he travels to the northwest. Note that this is not one of the books where Thompson reversed west and east; when Wag and Peg set out in pursuit, they head for "the western country of the Winkies." Jinnicky is also the Wizard of Ev, and his dominion seems to be on the Winkie side of Oz, though I'm not sure this is entirely clear in either of the books where a route from somewhere in Oz gets to his country (_Purple Prince_ and _Silver Princess_). In _Gnome King_ Peter and Rug go from the Nome Kingdom to Oz and arrive in the Winkie country, as do Bucky and Davy in _Lucky Bucky_. But Robin's argument about magic gates could counter those examples; I don't think Ev is specifically mentioned in either book. So this is one of the inconsistencies that's really hard to explain; it can't be laid to typographical or editing errors at R&B/L. >BTW, how do you pronounce the name Princess Langwidere. Is it pronounced >Langwider, or Langwideya? I pronounce it "Languid ear," more or less. But I've no idea how Baum pronounced it. >BTW, what did you mean that Jack Snow mixed up two of the Baum >characters as one character? He conflated the Guardian of the Gate and the Soldier with the Green Whiskers. I don't know if he did this in one of his novels, but he did in _Who's Who in Oz_. Regarding your Oz poll, a lot would depend on whether I could get permission to learn magic and whether Glinda would agree to teach me. If the answers to both are "yes" then I'd choose the Quadling country - specifically, at Glinda's palace. If either would be "no" then I'd choose the Gillikin country; more interesting stuff seems to happen there on the average. Lisa: >Something, that really annoys me, though, is that in the books, >everytime a person disagrees with Ozma, they are automatically made into >the 'villain'. Well, not really. Dorothy disagrees with Ozma in _DotWiz_ when Ozma says that if Eureka is found guilty of eating the piglet, she must be put to death. She also disagrees with Ozma when Ozma insists on bringing Uncle Henry and Aunt Em to Oz with the arrival place in the throne room. Scraps disagrees with Ozma when she puts Ojo on trial for picking the six-leaved clover. Glinda disagrees with Ozma when she decides to go with only Dorothy as her companion to the Skeezer/Flathead country. None of these characters is made into the "villain." It's only when a character disagrees with Ozma and actively tries to oppose her wishes that he or she is made into a villain. And in all those cases that I remember, the opposition is of a felonious nature. Nathan: >David Hulan: >>*But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within >>living memory. Otherwise, what would be the function of the Tin >>Soldier? Why would any soldiers be needed at all? That wasn't me. I think it was Gehan, but I know I didn't write that. Tyler: >For the most part, his books >take place outside Oz, so that future authors, even if they specifically >wanted to remain true to Snow, would in reality have little to worry about. The only bit of Snow that you have to ignore to be consistent with the other writers is his telling of Ozma's origin, which directly contradicts what Baum said. His other inconsistencies can usually be explained, though some of the explanations (like the Nome King's tunnel and barrier of invisibility) are pretty tortured. But you're right that he didn't change anything much in Oz; bringing Ozana in is about it, and since she doesn't live in the EC itself there'd be no need to bring her into another story (unless you wanted to bring back the Mimics as villains - in which case you're using other Snow characters as well). Gehan again: >I agree that the name Langwidere came from Languid+Dear or Languid+air, but >Princess Langwidere is not at all languid. She's not? Someone who longs for the return of the Queen of Ev and her family because as ruler she's required to spend ten minutes a day on affairs of state? Sounds pretty languid to me... >Is there anyone on the digest who thinks that the MGM Wizard of Oz Movie is >the best movie ever? What do you guys vote as the best movie? I vote for: >My Fair Lady >Sound of Music >Titanic _Best_ movie? Probably _Casablanca_. _Favorite_ movie? _Start the Revolution Without Me_, probably, though on another day I might pick _The Adventures of Robin Hood_ (Errol Flynn version) or _Fantasia_ or _Singin' in the Rain_. But StRWM is such a great movie, and is almost unknown, that I usually plump for it out of a root-for-the-underdog urge. David G.: >From the OzHist POV, this once again brings up the question of sources. How >did the information that went into the books get from Oz to the various >Royal Historians? If they saw only as through a glass, darkly, then their >stories might not be altogether accurate. In Baum's case, we might say that >he started out getting his information from Dorothy after her return to the >USA, except for _Land_. No real problem even there. Dorothy presumably would have learned about the events of _Land_ from Ozma, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Woodman during the "several weeks" she remained in the EC before Ozma transported her to Australia. This is, in fact, another good reason for shortening the time between _Wizard_ and _Emerald City_. _Land_ was published in 1904, yet Baum could have had no contact with Dorothy regarding post-_Wizard_ Oz until after the events of _DotWiz_ (since from the time she got to Oz in _Ozma_ until the end of _DotWiz_ she was out of the country, unless Baum met her in San Francisco during her brief stay there). >Does this mean that Ozma >used the Magic Belt or the Wizard's wishing pills to transport the Royal >Historian (whoever it might be) from here to there and back again as the >occasion demanded? That would blow my "second-hand information" theory (of >accounting for contradictions) right out of the water. Oh well. Well, not necessarily. Since there's never a case when a Royal Historian is along on an adventure, the specifics are still going to be second-hand information. Plus you never know what an editor is going to do; some of the inconsistencies are most easily explained in that way. Dave: >>If you could live in Oz, which part of Oz would you live in? > >Gillikin Country. I want to live with the Adepts! :) Doesn't sound like a bad deal... ;-) (Or whatever is the best emoticon for a leer.) >My "short list": > >Citizen Kane >Thelma and Louise >Singin' in the Rain >Contact >The Thief of Bagdad (Korda's) >It's a Wonderful Life >Lost Horizon >Ninotchka >84 Charing Cross Road >Hopscotch >Hot Millions >A Passage to India >Beauty and the Beast (Cocteau's) >The Lady Eve I haven't seen over half of the movies you list, but with the exception of _84 Charing Cross Road_, which I considered good but not great, I'd agree that all the ones you list that I've seen belong on a list of great movies. >Speaking of _Kabumpo in Oz_, someone suggested that the time has come >to set a date for discussion. Okay, how about two weeks from Monday >(Apr. 26)? I'll be in California at the time, but I'll be back the 28th and that should be in plenty of time for the discussion. (Marcia and I are celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary, and my daughter's throwing a party for us out there.) Not being an artist or designer I can't be of much help with your cover problem - but I have a hard time figuring why Chris wants "familiar" Oz characters on the cover. It's not as if his books are sold in regular bookstores (at least as far as I know); they're either ordered by mail (in which case the cover is a surprise to the buyer) or bought off a table at an Oz convention (in which case the buyer is as likely to be familiar with the GWN and Adepts as with Ozma and the Scarecrow). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Apr 99 12:24:34 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things SERANDIPITOUS OZ BOOKS: Mark wrote: i was at sams club and there were 4 oz boks there hard covers cheap like 8 bucks wiht all ( least i think it was all) the pictures end pics etc etc) including some in color and these editions were not books of wonder editions Sound like you hit the jackpot! What member of Lurline or Lulea's band is smiling on you? :) What books were they? "WE DO NOT ADMIT THAT MI6 [AND THE RUTH PLUMLY THOMPSON CHARACTERS] EXIST": Nathan wrote: >Maybe Cheeriobed was too busy to attend the party, or maybe he did >attend, and Snow just didn't mention it. That seems more likely... The Ozites that atained Oz celebrityhood on Thompson's watch are still there, but Snow ignores them. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ========================== End Part 2 ============================= ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 17 - 22, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Ozzy Digest Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:39:09 PDT Gehan: >BTW,its not suitable for Thompson to address her readers as "My Dear >Boys >and Girls". All her readers are not boys and girls. Look at the >Digest members for instance. Are they little boys and girls? No, but I would think that many (if not most) of us started reading the Oz books when we were little boys and girls. David Godwin: >Speaking of which, if Oz is on some other planet or in some other >dimension, how can anyone communicate with it via wireless >telegraphy? Or e-mail? I would imagine that it would be just easy (or maybe even easier) for radio waves to travel to another dimension as it would be for matter (such as people and their Kansas farmhouses) to make the same journey. David Hulan: >Jinnicky is also the Wizard of Ev, and his dominion seems to be >on the Winkie side of Oz, though I'm not sure this is entirely clear >in >either of the books where a route from somewhere in Oz gets to his >country (_Purple Prince_ and _Silver Princess_). In _Purple Prince_, Kabumpo runs from Jinnicky's domain to the desert (presumably staying in Ev the whole time), and then crosses the desert into the Winkie Country. >In _Gnome King_ Peter and Rug go >from the Nome Kingdom to Oz and arrive in the Winkie country, as do >Bucky >and Davy in _Lucky Bucky_. But Robin's argument about magic gates >could >counter those examples; I don't think Ev is specifically mentioned in >either book. Actually, I think it's mentioned in both. When Ruggedo sights land while sailing on the _Blunderoo_, he refers to the country as Ev. I believe that Bucky tells Davy that they have crossed the border from the Rose Kingdom into Ev (fairly unlikely, since they didn't cross the canyon, but I suppose Bucky could have misread the map) not too long before their encounter with Tickley Bender. >>BTW, what did you mean that Jack Snow mixed up two of the Baum >>characters as one character? > >He conflated the Guardian of the Gate and the Soldier with the Green >Whiskers. I don't know if he did this in one of his novels, but he >did in _Who's Who in Oz_. He did in _Shaggy Man_ (and possibly in _Magical Mimics, too; I don't remember). Snow also identified Omby Amby's wife as Tollydiggle. If this is the same Tollydiggle as the jailor in _Patchwork Girl_, she doesn't seem like the type who would have pulled out half of the Soldier's whiskers (which, in _Land_, Jinjur says that the Soldier's wife did). I suppose there could be more than one Tollydiggle in the Emerald City, or Tollydiggle is nicer in public than in private, or the Soldier could have been divorced and remarried (not something that we've seen happen in Oz, but I suppose there's no reason why it couldn't have happened at least once). Nathan: >David Hulan: >>*But* there must have been serious wars in Oz within >>living memory. Otherwise, what would be the function of the Tin >>Soldier? Why would any soldiers be needed at all? >That wasn't me. I think it was Gehan, but I know I didn't write that. I think it might have been David Godwin. I also noticed that someone attributed one of Jeremy's posts to me. I suppose it really doesn't matter all that much, though. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:34:11 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: royal pains David Godwin wrote: <> That book was published in the same year as SCARECROW, at a time when I suspect Baum was looking for someone to blame for his newer books' slumping sales--someone besides the fellow in the mirror who had decided to end his most successful series a few years before. Within a short time Baum became reconciled to Neill's work again. Robin Olderman wrote about OJO: <> Yes, but it seems that whenever Thompson set out to answer old Ozian mysteries, the answer was always the same: * Why is the Scarecrow alive? Because he's royal! * What fat child is the Hungry Tiger allowed to eat? A royal! * What's the story of the Good Witch of the North? She's royal! * What is Sir Hokus's background? He's royal! * Why were Ojo and Unc Nunkie living in the woods? They're royal! David Godwin wrote: <> When I was a full-time editor, half my authors knew not to ask about covers, and half had definite ideas. For the latter, I found the best tactic was to play dumb: "No, no, I can't visualize what you're saying. But I'll tell you what--you sketch out what you want, and I'll show it to the Art Director." I'd either never hear about the idea again, or get a sheepish call saying, "I can't fit everything I want onto one page." [That hasn't stopped me from trying to visualize covers art for my own manuscripts.] Since the original Oz books' heyday, children's book cover art has become much more dynamic, especially on paperbacks. A "posed" image, such as the picture of Glinda, Dorothy, and Ozma on GLINDA, wouldn't cut it anymore. Most of Del Rey's editions exhibit this change of fashion. For its GLINDA, as I recall, the cover shows Coo-ee-oh flinging her lasso. Chris Dulabone may want to follow the same trend with Tales, but I'd settle for adequate typesetting. Getting action into a drawing while leaving room for type requires an artist of professional abilities. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:43:20 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Fwd: Ozzy Digest 04-16-99 First of all,I came back to Ceylon sooner that I expected to. A sudden emergancy! You can all continue to email me at my usual address. Princess Langwdiere: I pronounce it as "Languideya". Actually, I still dont think that she is all that languid. I think it all defers from what head she wears. I only wish she appeared in more Oz books. I really like her character. If I could live in Ev, I'd most defenetely live with her. Coming to my Oz poll:I prefer the Quadling Country because there is so much to see and do. I'd like to live with Glinda in her palace. I wouldnt bother to ask her to teach me sorcery. Instead, I'll simply swallow one of Oscar's wishinh pills and wish to be the greatest sorcerer in all Oz. Thats a million times easier! The second best place would be the Munmchkin Country. I'd like to live with Jinjur and see her giving her husband a black eye! LOL! Ozana's welcome party: I doubt Cheeriobed attending Ozana's party. If Cheeriobed did attend, then so would Joe King and Queen Hyacinth and Jack Snow didnt mention any of their attendances. I still prefer to beleive that the events in -Magical Mimics- took place before Thompson's books, but someone said that that would be impossible, since Edgar Pole invented the lost pine boy in -Story Blossom Mountain- in the 1930's. Well, if Oz IS IN a parreral earth like Dave says, maybe the pine boy was invented in the early 1900's. Dave says that internet started in the 1960's in the parrarel earth where he places Oz.... Princes and Princessess in Oz: I really dont see why Ozma didnt make Betsy and Trot princessess of Oz. In -Giant Horse- King Cheeriobed makes Trot:"Princess of the Ozure Isles" and in -Hungry Tiger-, Prince Evered tells Betsy that he would have liked to make her Queen of Rash. I know Peter was made a prince at the end of -Gnome King- but he just didnt want the job. Maybe Ozma intended to make Trot and Betsy princessess but they didnt want her to. David Hulan: I didnt write that quote either. Results of the Oz poll: Most of you seem to prefer the Munchkin Country. Previous poll results: Some time ago, we voted for our favorite villains. Most of you seem to like Ruggedo more. I was quiote disspointed because noone like Coo-ee-oh,Langwidere or Jinjur other than me. (sigh!) We also voted for the best Oz ruler: Mots of us preffered Ozma. This weeks poll: If one of the Ozzy conquerors had to finally conquer Oz and rule Oz atleast for a few months, who would you like it to be? I'd vote for Jinjur or Coo-ee-oh. --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 01:38:20 -0400 Subject: From: "Jeannine Cotler" Wow! I'm so glad that I found the Ozzy Digest! I've been an Oz fan for most of my 34 years and look forward to sharing info and ideas about one of my favorite places. I know we're not supposed to submit quotes... but I just wanted to share this one from the MGM movie. It's one of my very favorite quotes of all time: Wizard to Tin Man - "And remember, my sentimental friend, that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." It gets me every time! Oz Love Always, Jeannine Cotler --- Jeannine and Alan Cotler Rainbow's End International, Inc. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:55:27 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz Dave H: Reading my last post in the Digest, I feel that I may have been unduly insensitive with regard to the question you raised about the cover on L&3A. Shoulda had a smiley face, I guess, although what I said about authors designing their own covers was generally very true - *but* not necessarily in your case. Anyway, I definitely agree that it is not unreasonable to expect that the main characters in a book be on the cover. The best solution I can come up with at the moment is something similar to the original cover of ECOz, with your characters in the foreground walking or riding down a street in the EC and a few of the old familiars such as Ozma, the Scarecrow, etc. looking on from balconies, windows, etc. David Hulan wrote: >Regarding your Oz poll, a lot would depend on whether I could get >permission to learn magic and whether Glinda would agree to teach me. If >the answers to both are "yes" then I'd choose the Quadling country - >specifically, at Glinda's palace. As for learning magic, remember that "With great power there must also come great responsibilty" (Spiderman). In the case of Glinda's other pupil, the Wizard, he is always dashing off to ride half the length of Oz in a great hurry on the Sawhorse (ouch!) to fetch his black bag or to tell Glinda about a crisis. There are disappointments, too. The Wizard must have put in a great deal of work on ozoplanes and scalawagons and the like, only to have it all come to naught (either because Ozma in her wisdom nixed the project or because later authors had better sense than to carry on with the idea), As for specific locations where I'd like to live in Oz, I've already said the Munchkin country generally, so specifically I'll say "within walking distance of the EC." Nathan wrote: >Isn't yellow >supposed to be a relaxing color? Actually, I think blue is supposed to be more relaxing, (All this is subjective and depends on who you ask, but I think "they" did some experiments that "proved" that prisoners were easier to manage if kept in cells painted blue.) Yellow is a morning, wake-up sort of color. I believe it's supposed to stimulate the thinking process, but it's also associated with sickness. Personally, a lot of yellow makes me feel rather etiolated. Nomes don't like it because it is the color of egg yolks, Gehan wrote: >I've planned a weekly poll on the Digest. So what was it for this week? J. L. Bell: The General would definitely be in my top 20 list. Red Badge of Courage would also rate highly. The message I get out of the responses to the movie poll is "celebrate diversity." Digesters appear to be a truly diverse collection of people with widely varying interests, religious beliefs, philosophies, likes and dislikes, etc., but we are all united in a love of Oz. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:13:16 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Somebody: Hmm, which Oz books do I like, yet consider inaccurate, and which do I not like, yet consider accurate? Hmm, I'm a littl etired after my long drive, but I'll take a look at my bookcase in a couple days. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:37:52 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz images I hope to save trouble by saying I saw the Del Rey GLINDA at Bob Collinge's New England Oz Fiesta this weekend, and its Michael Herring cover depicts not Coo-ee-oh but Glinda with her skeropythrope. My point about how publishers now prefer more dynamic images still seems to apply; in comparison to the corresponding Neill picture, Glinda appears at a more dramatic angle and sparks fly toward the viewer. Folks with Web access may enjoy this glimpse of a Munchkin landscape: http://thunder.indstate.edu/~christom/e12.html Trivia: When Nick Chopper's ax was enchanted, the first things it cut off were his limbs--specifically, his left leg, then his right, then his arms. Nick cuts many other things with his ax in WIZARD, most often heads. When is the next time we see this ax chop off a creature's limb? J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:29:53 -0700 From: ozbot X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-09-99 Oops! It's been too too long since I've replied to the list, that I forgot to quote the appropriate people when I snipped their reply! > > >If you could live in Oz, which part of Oz would you live in? > Gilliken Country, because it always seemed to be the most adventurous part. > Oh, any of the major countries would be fine with me. The Winkie > Country comes to mind, but I'm not exactly sure why. Isn't yellow > supposed to be a relaxing color? Maybe that has something to do with > it. > IIRC, yellow is actually the most anxiety-causing color (which is why they don't paint hospital interiors yellow.) Supposedly, the physical wavelengths of light reflected by yellow are more intense, while blues are less so. Curiously, pink is the most calming, but that might be for more social reasons than physical. If it's any consolation, wasn't yellow the color that calmed Van Gogh? > >What other Oz names lend themselves to alternate > pronunciations? > Well, if you have latin roots, Ojo is either "O- jo" or "O-ho" (the word meaning "eye.") Did you get Kalidah (kalEEdah or kalEYEdah) and Lurline (lurLEEN or lurLINE) ? ozbot Danny Wall ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: 2nd Annual Oz Fiesta of New England Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:10:15 -0400 This past weekend was the 2nd annual Wizard of Oz Fiesta of New England. While it didn't draw as many as last year, it drew many different people, and brougt Oz fans together for a day of fun. The digest's own John L. Bell gave a wonderful talk on "3 reasons I like the book better than the movie". It was very interesting, and John does a great Glinda impersonation. :-) John also won the book trivia. Sixteen year old Katie Flynn won the movie trivia. Anyone wishing to try their skill at the trivia is more than welcome. Please email me, and I will send it to you. "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" and "The Wizard of Oz" were shown on the ceiling of the planetarium dome. Meinhardt Raabe, the coroner munchkin from the MGM movie spoke in the afternoon on his MGM experience, and then he answered questions. We had two vendors selling Ozzy merchandise, Emerald City Arts and Toto-ly Oz. I put a display out of my collection also. I focused more on the books than the movie, from Baum and Thompson up to current authors, such as David Hulan and "The Glass Cat" and Michael O. Riley and his book on Baum's fantasy land. It was a very good mix of books and movie. I also displayed literature from different clubs and publishers, so that Oz fans would know what else is out there. The Ozzy digest was included on a list of Ozzy favorite websites. I met many new Oz friends, and hopefully next year will be just as much fun. Thanks again John L. Bell, for your speech. Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:08:41 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Oz RPG Okdokes. Its time to start the RPG. To join the game, send a blank message to ozzyroleplaying-subcribe@egroups.com. I've changed the game style. The game will no longer play out on a message board as I intended to. Instead,it will play out on a digest.You have to post your entries to me on Tuesday and Friday on each week. I will forward them to the mailing list for you to read them. You will receive a welcome message once you have subcribed with more information. Thanks, --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:42:16 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Oz things (Warning:Spoilers for Kabumpo in Oz) At the end of -RTOZ-, the Gnome King grew into an enormous giant. Do you think they got this iedia from -Kabumpo-, in which he grew into a giant and carried the Emerald City on his head? (End of spoilers) BTW, have you noticed that Eloise Jarvis McGraw seems to be quite loyal to Ruth Plumly Thompson? Her favorite Oz book was RPT's -Grampa in Oz-. She dedictaed -Forbidden Fountain- to RPT and she seems to use lots of the Thompson characters in her book. She seems to talk very highly of RPT. Was she a Ruth Plumly Thompson fan in the same way Jack Snow was a Baumophile? She seems to have rejected Baum's work and taken Thompson's works more seriously. Is it true, or am I just making mountains out of molehills? Another BTW: Why did the lis of Royal Historians stop from Eloise McGraw? Did Reilly&Lee run down? I know that Gina Wickwar is supposed to be taken as one of the Royal Historians, but why did the line stop? And why arent the seven Quasi-official books considered as "official" books, since they were written by the Royal Historians and Illustrators too? And BTW, what is Dirk's last name? They identify him as "Dirk" in the books, with inverted commas. Anyone know the reason? Thanks, --Gehan ====================================================================== From: APG1146846@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:45:11 EDT Subject: (no subject) CC: APG1146846@aol.com ozzy please send me pic.i love your songs and you were the first music i ever hered. [I just included this to show that the problem continues... How do people get my address and the name "Ozzy Digest" without seeing my page, which makes it hippikalorically obvious that it's about Oz not Ozzy Osbourne! Digest name-change anyone? -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:45:27 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest 04-16-99 Nathan: >Didn't Jack Snow state that Shaggy's brother lives in the Gillikin >Country? I could be wrong here. He may have - I suppose as an aside of sorts in _Shaggy Man_? In _Lost Princess_ he apparently lives in or near the EC, since he sets out from there as part of a search party going into the Gillikin Country, along with Shaggy, Tik-Tok, and Jack Pumpkinhead. Presumably if he were living in the Gillikin country already they'd have met him there. Robin: Alternate pronunciations? The audio version of _Emerald City_ uses pronunciations I'd never thought of for Kaliko (kah-LEEK-oh), Jellia (Jell-EYE-ah), and Bristle (like the city Bristol), for three. But then, I'd never have thought of pronouncing Ev "eve" or Guph "goof," either. Almost any multisyllable name could have its accent shifted, at least. Ugu could be pronounced "oogoo" or "yoogoo," though those don't give much scope for verse. And the names of all the royal family of Ev are easily perturbed. I noticed in the radio play version of _Ozma_ at the last Winkies they pronounced the name of the late king Evoldo as if it were "evil do," which may well have been what Baum had in mind...but I'd never thought of anything but "ev-ALL-doh." J.L.: Not saying that Dorothy didn't deserve the title more than the rest of the immigrants to Oz, just that my feeling has always been that Ozma would have given her the title even without her deeds of valor. But this is based on my sense of Ozma's character and her relationship with Dorothy, not on anything specific in the books. Snow's original characters don't seem to offer much scope for further stories. The Mimics are too nasty to re-use; Ozana and the Pineville characters are too tied down to their location (even if it's been moved to Oz); Twink and Tom were used by Shanower, as you pointed out, but in a very non-Ozzy way; Twoffle (or was it Twiffle? I can't remember which was the kids' toy and which was Conjo's aide) and Conjo were returned to isolation in the Nonestic and it seems unlikely they'd ever leave the island, or that they'd be able to do anything interesting if they did. David G.: >Speaking of which, if Oz is on some other planet or in some other >dimension, how can anyone communicate with it via wireless telegraphy? Or >e-mail? One need only postulate that sufficiently long wavelengths can penetrate from our plane of reality to the Ozian one, which doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. Clearly visible light can't, since if it could we could see Oz and vice versa, even if we couldn't touch it. But if wavelengths longer than a millimeter or so could make the transition, you could have radio and television and e-mail easily enough. (There'd have to be a microwave link for e-mail, but there are lots of those on our Earth already; Oz just needs to set up a transceiver in the right place(s).) At least I've seen most of your favorite movies, unlike some of the other lists. Though I'll admit that two of them (Crumb and The Whole Wide World) I've not only not seen, but never heard of. I haven't seen Ed Wood or The Seventh Seal, either, but at least I've heard of them; I've seen the others, though only Fantasia would make my top ten - or 25, for that matter. Gehan: >Someone said that we cant call an official Oz book un-fit if the events >recorded in it are true. Well, as Eric Gjovaag stated,each Oz fan chooses >his own set of Oz books. Some Oz fans consider every Oz book official, some >accept the entire FF, while some only accept the Baum books. Beleive it or >not, James Thurber says that the only true Oz books are -Wizard- and -Land- >and the rest is all bunk. And there are some who think only _Wizard_ is true (which makes more sense to me than accepting only it and _Land_; the biggest single shift in the nature of Oz is between those two books). Certainly everyone has the right to decide which books they think are genuine Oz history and which they think are fiction, but it seems to me that you're being selective based entirely on whether you like the ideas in the books rather than for any objective reason, and I don't think that's valid. There's a reasonable case for accepting only _Wizard_. There's a reasonable case for accepting only the first six books. There's a reasonable case for accepting only the Baum books. There's a reasonable case for accepting only Baum and Thompson. There's a reasonable case for accepting all the FF except Neill. There's a reasonable case for accepting all the FF. I do _not_ see a reasonable case for accepting most of the FF except a few books that introduce ideas that one doesn't care for. (I mean "accepting" in the sense of considering that they relate true Oz history, not in the sense of wanting them in one's personal library. That's a wholly different consideration.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:35:27 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Little Wizard Stories of Oz Hey all! You've simply got to hear this! I was reading the Little Wizard Stories of Oz on the net when I found something most amazing in the story:Tiktok and the Nome King. The Nome King asked Kaliko to bring him two roasted goats, a barrel of cakes and nine mince pies. Now, the Nome King asked for cakes, and you need eggs to bake a cake. So how can the Nome King eat cakes if eggs are poison for nomes? Unless he uses some other unknown methord and eats some sort of rock-cake. Any iedias? BTW,I think the Little Wizard Stories of Oz are really boring! I doubt they'll satisfy even a two year old. I wonder why Baum wrote such simple stories and I wonder why Reilly and Lee decided to publish them. The only two stories that have some scense are: The Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger Little Dorothy and Toto I havent bought the book, so I just read on the net, but tell me, was the book dedicated to anyone? Do you suppose L.Frank Baum wrote it for a very young child, possibly one of his grandchildren.....? --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:28:44 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Locasta and the Three Adepts I dont see why the cover of -Locasta- should have a picture of the more familiar Oz Characters. We are all familiar with the Three Adepts and the Good Witch of the North and so it wont be a problem to include just one picture of them on the cover. You know what they say:NEVER JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER!"LOL! Maybe the cover design can be somewhat simmilar to the cover of -Enchanted Apples of Oz- by Eric Shanower. The front cover has a picture of Ozma,Dorothy,Scarecrow,Flipper and Valynn the palace gardens. The back cover has a picture of Bortag and the unnamed Wicked Witch of the South lying in wait at the back of the palace gardens. Maybe the cover of -Locasta- can be simmilar to this. There can be a picture of Locasta,Dan,the Adepts and other familiar Oz characters together in the palace gardens on the front cover. The back cover can have a picture of the evil Taana and her army of demons,at the back of the palace gardens all waiting to conquer Oz. This picture can be printed right under the summary of -Locasta-. I think this seems to be the best solution. Its only IMHO. LOL! --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:12:20 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: Ozzy 03-26-99 > Are you sure those Thompson characters are in the parade? If there is a > clown in the parade, it might be Mr. Joker (from the China Country), > rather than Notta. I don't know about Mustafa, but it seems unlikely > that a villain, especially a Thompson villain, would be there. What > does he look like (the guy in the parade, not Mustafa). He's the guy behind the Braided Man in the procession. > Lisa Mastroberte: "Wizard" refers to Cowardly Lion as going off by himself to > kill animals for food. Other books refer to "roasts" at feasts, but don't > indicate specifically that any animals were killed to provide them (with all > the magic available, it would be at least possible that the "roasts" are > all as > vegetarian as the ham-sandwiches in the "Ozma" lunch-tree lunch-buckets). That's what it's like in _Tip of Oz_. All the meats are magic and grow on trees created by the ancient sorcerors who were more prevalent before being forced underground by Ozma. > > I don't recall any statement like that, but in _Ozma_, Dorothy has a ham > sandwich from a lunchbox that is growing on a tree. Not only it is not > vegetarian, it isn't even kosher! A few pages earlier, Billina accuses "You > eat lambs and sheep and cows and pigs and even chickens." Dorothy's only > defense is "But we cook 'em." In any case, it has always been my impression > that things like beefsteaks grew on trees, thus avoiding the uncomfortable > notion of abattoirs in Oz. I never did explain where Tip got the sushi he claims he ate, but he never said it was fish sushi, it could have been tofu, mushroom, carrot, cucumber, avocado, Japanese egg cake, etc. > (Dorothy's right) are a young woman in a white sort of ancient-Grecian > dress, an older couple in Victorian garb, a woman in a flowered hat, a few The first is one of the statue girls. The Shaggy Man walks in from the right side of the screen. > > In the parade itself near the Shaggy/Braided Man there is a man with > somewhat exaggerated white hair and beard, but, despite his red costume, > it's not Santa Claus. There are a lot of people who could be anybody, and a > fair number of Wheelers. Later, in viewing the crowd before the throne, we > see a person in a sailor suit holding a bunch of balloons and jumping up > and down. We only see him (or her?) from the back. If it's Cap'n Bill, he's > awfully agile for a sixty-year-old man with a wooden leg. In another shot, He's holding the magic flower. > we see a clown in the crowd who might or might not be Notta Bit More. > > In later quick shots of the crowd, we can see the Frogman. I could barely > make out Polychrome. She only appeared a couple of times for a split > second, and I would not have had any idea it was her if it hadn't been for > her headdress (all you can see of her in some shots), and I wouldn't have > identified her from that if not for the photo of her in _World of Oz_. (The > headdress is certainly not in any of Neill's drawings.) I don't see anyone > with a turban and a fierce beard (Mustafa) or anyone who looks like > Rinkitink. I also do not see the Musicker at all, and several of the Rinkitink appears next to the Bumpy Man. The Musicker is shown thin, but with written music on his garb. > younger men or boys could be Ojo, or not (in one shot, someone with a > peaked hat is reflected in a mirror). > > I don't know who you might identify as the Guardian of the Gates. The one > soldier in the red coat might be him, or he might be the Army of Oz, but in He appears wearing huge glasses near Rinkitink and the Bumpy Man. > either case it seems that he ought to be wearing green rather than red. He > is a young man without whiskers. I'd tend to say he is Pvt. Files; he bears > more resemblance to that character than either of the other two, and in > that case the "Greek" woman he escorts could be Ozga. There are one or two > young women who could be Jellia, although none is wearing anything like a > maid's uniform. We also see several brief shots of a man in a purple suit > or uniform, but I have no identification for him. > > Eyles says, "The director insisted that the characters correspond in form > as closely as possible to the John R. Neill drawings." Well, he evidently > got his way with the Tin Woodman and Tommy Kwikstep, but beyond that I'm > not so sure, Polychrome and the Shaggy Man don't come very close. Polychrome was played by Cheire Hawkins, who is on staff at the University of Alaska Anchorage Department of Theatre, or rather, she was. She's not listed on their website anymore. (http://www.uaa.alaska.edu/theatre/) Scott ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:14:57 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 03-23-99 I saw _Twister_ a few weeks ago. Kesey conflates Dorothy and Judy Garland with his revisionist character as portrayed by Karen McCormick. She has had four abortions and all the MGM tutors taught her was how to keep from getting anyhting from Mickey Rooney. "Glenda" (Carol Provance) is a registered nurse. The Scarecrow (Phil Dietz) is a bigot (the crows are a thin veil for blacks), "Tinman" (George Walker) is corroding from social disease, and the Cowardly Lion, never shown, is said to be the head of a paramilitary group in northern Idaho. Instead of the lion we get Frankie-Frankenstein (Ken Babbs) appaering with Elvis Presley (Simon Babbs). dorothy must seek out her friends on a mission to teach people how to avert the end of the world. The cast is rounded out by Arzinia Richardson (Legba, an African deity), Ken Kesey (Oz), Candace (Ring Girl), Emily Messmer (Angelina Gloria Ramirez), and Lewis Messmer (Fed-Ex Delivery Boy), Thor Babbs (The Mighty Thor), and Obie Babbs (Don Pardo). Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary, and the Grateful Dead's "Wavy" make cameos. Among the names in the special thanks credits are Jerry Garcia, Gus Van Sant, David Amram, Vincent Ward, and Sergei Eisenstein, the latter two for film footage from _The Navigator: A Mediaeval Odyssey_ and, I believe, _Alexander Nevsky_, but I haven't seen the latter, so I'm not certain. Also shown is footage of Ravana from Cauron's _A Little Princess_. Another good actress to play Glinda would be Mandy Barrett, though for the height we expect, they'd have to dig trenches like for Alan Ladd. She has the right look and a deep and powerful (but definitely not Butch) voice. She is a theatre performance major at Butler University, and has recieved several awards and scholarships. She is also my firend, but that doesn't have anyhting to do with it. ================================= Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."--K, Barry Sonnenfeld's _Men in Black_. "The reason most folk songs are so atrocious is because they were written by THE PEOPLE."--Tom Lehrer > No meat? Yipee! (As you can probably tell, I am a vegetarian.) But in > one of the books, doesn't it say something about animals for food can be > killed? I forget which one, I have a short memory. > > Peace!! > -Lisa I recall a Thompson book mentioning the Wizard eating roast duck, which I thought seemed incongruous with Baum. After I saw Antonia Bird's _Ravenous_ I couldn't eat red meat for a week. Now I only eat it when it's served to me. Of course, I've never eaten any red meat except beef and pork. They are no longer very appetizing to me now after seeing that film. > > >From what I've heard, it will be mostly MGM-based, but have some minor > references to the books. The last I heard, one of the planned rides is > called "The Great Sawhorse Derby," and the Sawhorse certainly doesn't > appear in the MGM film. Yes he does. Not alive, but a very horse-like sawhorse is in the woods to the left of Nick's cottage. > Polychrome > Frogman > Scraps > Musicker > Ojo > Notta bit more > Guardian of the Gates > Mustafa the Mudge > King Rinkitink > Shaggy Man > Cap'n Bill > (Coutsey of Lisa Mastroberte) > > Ofcourse there could be more..... I think she got this list off of my website, because I usually see Notta declared "China Clown," but it doesn't look like it could be Mr. Joker, he doesn't look made of china or cracked. > hours - I have the impression that they're good at sprinting, not so good > on the long haul. But this is Oz, after all, and no ordinary lion. I > concede that point. "The size of a small horse." > > >Shaggy Man > > Doesn't look much like him though... Near the opening of the scene, one can clearly seen an old man near the front of the procession in a browns suit with ruffles like the fancier shags Neill depicted post-Road. > > >Ofcourse there could be more..... > > Wasn't Tommy Kwikstep there too? Yes > > And I still say that's the Adepts! > > But no Jellia! Yeah, but wasn't Rana Haugen great in the stage Land? ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:34:02 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-01-99 Gehan: The Scarecrow in RTO wasn't a dummy, it was limber pantomime actor Justin Case (who played the mime in the opening scene of Richard Lester's _Superman III_. It is unlikely Baum intended any relation between the witches. The age difference between GWN and Glinda looks substantial, and Baum never gave the slightest hint that the other two were related. Lisa and everyone: It may be thatthe characters are hard to spot because they are cropped out of the home video version. I never saw Wogglebug or Jenny Jump. That was the Musicker that I saw as you describe. I saw on the news that they arrested this nerdy looking guy with five o'clock shadow near Trenton, NJ for creating the Melissa virus. Scott =================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."--K, Barry Sonnenfeld's _Men in Black_. "The reason most folk songs are so atrocious is because they were written by THE PEOPLE."--Tom Lehrer ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:58:56 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-07-99 RTO ran 113 minutes in the UK, and 109 minutes in the U.S., and most of what was deleted was from the party scene. We are still awaiting an uncut, letterboxed release here. Maybe Anchor Bay will do it. http://www.angelfire.com/tx/returntooz/index.html is a great RTO site. I just saw _Agamamenon_ stage last Saturday. It was incredible! see the cast and crew at http://www.butler.edu/jcfa/theatre/images/frontphoto.jpeg Mandy Barrett has her arm around BK (Agamemnon) at the bottom center. It's pretty obvious, though, that it's not the clearest picture. Scott ================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."--K, Barry Sonnenfeld's _Men in Black_. "The reason most folk songs are so atrocious is because they were written by THE PEOPLE."--Tom Lehrer ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Apr 99 15:11:54 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: Snow in Oz Robin Olderman: "Lurline" might lend itself to line/lean difference of pronunciation, and maybe difference of long/short u (lure vs. tooraloora?)? Thi is presumably meant to be pronounced as in thistle, but might lend itself to being a voiced th as in "this," or long i as in "thigh"? (And thanks to Robin and David Hulan and Nathan DeHoff for reminders of other volcanos.) Dave Hardenbrook and J.L. Bell: Another possible Oz-as-history explanation for why Thompson might have visited Oz while Baum relied on radio -- difficulty of getting people home again. After Glinda set up the Barrier of Invisibility, people traveled back and forth between Oz and the countries on the other side of the Desert at intervals (and in "Cowardly Lion" magic took people from Pennsylvania to Oz), but Ozma claimed to be unable to send Trot and Captain Bill home to California, and no one traveled from Oz to the United States until "Gnome King." Perhaps the Barrier in some way interfered with such magics as the Magic Belt, making transportation home impossible. (Although David Godwin's suggestion of "a mental journey" is perhaps the most plausible explanation.) J.L. Bell: You commented that the absence of Snow's characters in books by other Oz writers reflects Snow's use of mostly Baum- invented characters, and suggested that perhaps his original characters aren't compelling enough to get that kind of attention. Could be, but another factor would probably be that his original characters are mostly people who seem unlikely to travel and (as David Hulan pointed out with Ozana) don't live in the much-visited EC area. So revisiting them would probably mean a story with a reason to go to the specific areas where they lived. Most of the characters who've been re-used by later writers have been ones who can easily travel to new places (such as Snow's Twink and Tom, who did get re- used, as you mentioned, in one of Eric Shanower's stories). Come to think of it, Snow's influence has probably been much more in the line of directing readers to read all of the Oz books (through his "Who's Who in Oz") and to look for Baum's non-Oz fantasies (through the mentions in "Who's Who" and through his own revisiting of "John Dough" sites in "Shaggy Man"). David Godwin: On Baum's unhappiness with Neill's illustrations -- it's been suggested (I don't remember offhand in which article on Neill) that Baum's unhappiness with Neill was only temporary, a matter disliking the "Oz Toy Book" (produced without consulting him) and worrying over whether the revival of the Oz series in "Patchwork Girl" (after the low sales for the two "Trot" books) would sell well. Before and after that period he hadn't expressed dissatisfaction with Neill's work. And he does seem to have been influenced by Neill's illos in such details as introducing Glinda's Great Book of magic, which might suggest some degree of enjoyment. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: Jellia Jamb Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:16:30 4747 (Ozzy Standard Time) To: Dave Subject: Norman Bates in Oz?? Cc: OzDigest@mindspring.com Dear Dave, You wrote: >I just included this to show that the problem continues... How do people >get my address and the name "Ozzy Digest" without seeing my page, which >makes it hippikalorically obvious that it's about Oz not Ozzy Osbourne! >Digest name-change anyone? But Dave, if you changed it to "Oz Digest" people would think it's about Austrailia, "Emerald City Digest" and they'll think it's about Seattle, "Fictional Oz" and they'll think it's about that prison on HBO (and be inaccurate besides!), "Yellow Brick Digest" and they'll think it's about gold, any Ozite's name and you'll be showing excess favoritism ( Well, the "Jellia Digest" would work! :) ). Anyway, Ozma asked me to tell you better to leave well enough alone. BTW, in answer to your previous question, Ozma confirms that Glinda *is* a lurker on the Digest. Oh, one more thing ( sorry to sound like Columbo :) ) I know Hungry Tiger Press is on the Digest now and I don't wish to step on anyone's toes (I already accidentially stepped on the Hungry Tiger's front paws yesterday in the royal art gallery while I was dusting the Modigliani), but what's all this about Hungry Tiger Press' advertisement for "Spectral Snow" (which includes "Murder in Oz") featuring a pic of a skull with two poppies??! Can any of your collegues there on the Digest confirm? Gotta go. Ozma's giving me the day off so I can cut my first album! XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO Jellia. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 21 Apr 99 17:37:16 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "THE EVIL OF TWO LESSERS": Gehan wrote: >This weeks poll: >If one of the Ozzy conquerors had to finally conquer Oz and rule Oz atleast >for a few months, who would you like it to be? >I'd vote for Jinjur or Coo-ee-oh. I think Jinjur would be the only one who would be tolerable... Does Ann Soforth count? (She wanted to conquer the world, which would include Oz.) RPG: Gehan wrote: >Okdokes. Its time to start the RPG. To join the game, send a blank message >to ozzyroleplaying-subcribe@egroups.com... You will receive a welcome >message once you have subcribed with more information. I subscibed on Tuesday and received nothing. AUDIOZ: David Hulan wrote: >The audio version of _Emerald City_ uses pronunciations I'd never thought >of for ... Jellia (Jell-EYE-ah)... Who's reading it? Obviously the pun was lost on them... BTW, this is not Ozzy, but did anyone else notice that on Disney's song album for their "Alice in Wonderland", brillig is pronounced "brill-ing", slithy with a short-"i", "gimble" with a soft-"g", and "borogove" "boh-ro-grove". THEY'RE BAAAAAAAACK! David Hulan wrote: >The Mimics are too nasty to re-use... They return both in _Locasta_ (though as merely auxillery members of Ruggedo's army) and in _Red Dwarf in Oz_ (where they play a leading role). LITTLE WIZARD AND LOCASTA: Gehan wrote: >Now, the Nome King asked for cakes, and you need eggs to bake a cake. So how >can the Nome King eat cakes if eggs are poison for nomes? Unless he uses >some other unknown methord and eats some sort of rock-cake. Any iedias? Egg Beaters (or other egg substitute)?? :) >BTW,I think the Little Wizard Stories of Oz are really boring! I disagree. I like them all, except _Scarecrow and T.W_. I'll concede they can get a bit preachy, though. >I dont see why the cover of -Locasta- should have a picture of the more >familiar Oz Characters. We are all familiar with the Three Adepts and the >Good Witch of the North and so it wont be a problem to include just one >picture of them on the cover. I'm inclined to agree... After all, Locasta and the Adepts are better known to most Oz fans than Zim, who graces the cover of _Disenchanted Princess_. AGE GAP: Scott wrote: >It is unlikely Baum intended any relation between the witches. The age >difference between GWN and Glinda looks substantial... That's because Locasta opted to grow old and Glinda didn't... But I don't think they're related. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 23 - 29, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:57:55 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-99 RPT and solutions to identity: Her ideas sometimes became a royal pain . . . Gehan: Live with Languidere? Don't you think you might become somewhat, er, heady after awhile? Jeannine: That is indeed a famous quote, and one of the most meaningful. John Bell: Perhaps the Kalidah? Yes, it must be, because the giant spider came during the journey to Glinda's palace. Dave: "Digest of the Land of Oz and Its Peoples"?? "Digest of Baum, Thompson, Neil, McGraw, and Other Oz"? "`Oz Is More than Ordinary Fiction' Discussion Group"? Hmm. To eliminate all confusion, perhaps: "Digest of the Emerald City of Oz"? That way, those who know much anything about Oz will be clued in. Ruggedo and Egg-Eating: (No, I am not referring to egg-_beating_) Cooking substances changes their chemical makeup somehow. I learned that much in introductory chemistry. (How it's changed, I'm not too sure. I didn't learn _that_ much. ;-) ) Until later times, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:18:47 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: ovo-intolerant Oz Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I'm assuming the word should be "subscribe," which may explain Dave Hardenbrook's difficulty in getting a reply. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> An inter-dimensional opening for an individual or small house or even hot-air balloon can be a brief thing. For Ozians and their historian(s) to communicate by radio, however, the electromagnetic link would have to be fairly permanent. A person would have to be able to call up the other end at least as often as one can get through to a personal Web page. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> How do the McGraws reject Baum's work in any significant way? There's indeed a stylistic similarity between the McGraws' Oz stories and Thompson's. Both take some characters and societies from Europe: in Thompson's case, from the medieval romances and their modern retellings; in the McGraws', from those and early modern England. Both keep two or three plots in the air. And I bet the ladies (at least Eloise and Ruth) shared a certain outlook as professional children's-book authors. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I don't think Baum's sons had children of their own at that time. His motivation was almost certainly less personal: money. Reilly & Britton issued LIL WIZARD STORIES in the same year it restarted the series with PATCHWORK GIRL. The publisher was trying to get the most review attention and shelf space, and to expand the Oz readership down some years. Baum needed the income. We discussed LIL WIZARD some months ago (Tyler Jones might recall exactly which Digest archive[s] you might download to read the remarks). Most of us seemed to agree that they're far from Baum's best short fantasy tales. People had different favorites, however. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> If there's rock candy, why not rock cake? Kaliko could also have found some of the recipes that promise cake without eggs. One from WHAT MRS. FISHER KNOWS ABOUT OLD SOUTHERN COOKING (1881): "Feather Cake. One teacup of butter, two of flour, two of sugar. Cream the flour and butter together; two teaspoonfuls of yeast powder to one teacup of sweet milk. Mix all with the flour and beat light with a large spoon. To be baked in round tins. Grease well and bake in a moderately hot stove." Ruggedo's dietary restriction must make it difficult for him to fly on a commercial airline. "Sir, will you need a kosher, vegetarian, or low-salt meal?" "No eggs! Anything as long as it has no eggs in it!" "I'm sorry, sir, that's not an option on my computer. I'll put you down for a regular breakfast, and if it's scrambled eggs, you can just ask the flight attendant for another little bagel, all right?" "Do these 'bagels' have eggs in them?" "Now that you mention it, some do. Don't worry, sir: we'll always have extra peanuts. Now this is a non-smoking flight, so you'll have to leave your pipe in your carry-on bag." "Great roiling rubies! Oh well, I suppose I'll manage." "And you're not allowed to smoke in the rest rooms, either." "Hippakaloric!" Gehan Cooray wrote: <> The RETURN TO OZ conception of Ruggedo is so different from the books that I doubt it. It seems like an original idea [note spelling] inspired by Claymation. Turning to the land of Snow, I just peeked back at what he says about the Soldier with the Green Whiskers in WHO'S WHO. Snow made a special point in his entry for Wantowin (the name Thompson pressed on the Soldier in OZOPLANING, and Neill adopted) that the tall, bearded man was really Omby Amby. It seems odd that he got carried away and decided the same man was the Emerald City's gatekeeper as well. Ruth Berman wrote of Snow: <> Royal Historians have been quite successful at revisiting characters in their homes, or giving them excuses to leave, when those characters are appealing enough to warrant another story. The Red Jinn, for instance, first appears in JACK PUMPKINSEED as rather immovable, and by YANKEE he's traipsing around the landscape. That we haven't seen Conjo or the little wooden people again is more than a matter of their habits, I think; few of us are really eager to see them again. (People have offered the same explanation for why Woot doesn't have more adventures, and he's certainly available to wander into trouble.) Bob Collinge wrote: <> And I wasn't even in costume. I must report, however, that Bob not only provided an uncannily accurate reading of the Coroner's speech from the MGM movie, he did so while Meinhardt Raabe was sitting beside him. Both impressive and couragerous! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:24:14 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-99 John Bell wrote: Yes, but it seems that whenever Thompson set out to answer old Ozian mysteries, the answer was always the same: * Why is the Scarecrow alive? Because he's royal! * What fat child is the Hungry Tiger allowed to eat? A royal! * What's the story of the Good Witch of the North? She's royal! * What is Sir Hokus's background? He's royal! * Why were Ojo and Unc Nunkie living in the woods? They're royal! +Who's the first child the Cowardly Lion adventures with besides Dorothy? A poor mortal orphan. +What happens to the Royal King of Oz? He's saved by a little button boy who goes right back to being a little button boy after the adventure. +Who is the Royal Queen of the Ozure Isles? A witch. :o) +Why is Jack Pumpkinhead reeeeeally alive? Only because of the Powder of Life. He's not a royal anything, although his father is. +Who is Sir Hokus? Er, a royal.... +Who is the Soldier with the Green Whiskers? He's a fuffer named (shudder) Wantowin Battles. Nuthin' royal about him, either, but I think we'd've been stunned if there *had* been! Seriously, John, you do have a point. I'd never thought about it before, but RPT did have a penchant for pouring on the royalty. As a kid, I liked it, and as an adult, it doesn't bother me a bit. This weeks poll: If one of the Ozzy conquerors had to finally conquer Oz and rule Oz at least for a few months, who would you like it to be?>> Maybe Wutz. He has a sense of style and elegance, at least. Or Ruggedo because he's tried so hard so often that I can *almost* feel sorry for him! Top Ten Movies: "The Quiet Man," "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, "Shakespeare in Love" (really!), "Singing in the Rain," "On the Town," "Meet Me in St. Louis," "Romeo and Juliet" (Franco Zeffirelli's), "Fantasia," "Rebecca," and ???? Gehan's queries: Another BTW: Why did the lis of Royal Historians stop from Eloise McGraw? Did Reilly&Lee run down?....And why arent the seven Quasi-official books considered as "official" books, since they were written by the Royal Historians and Illustrators too? And BTW, what is Dirk's last name? They identify him as "Dirk" in the books, with inverted commas. Anyone know the reason?>> The Oz series had pretty much run its course when Eloise and Lauren decided to write one on their own. (Ruth B., please correct me if any of the following is wrong.) Eloise submitted it to R&L, who were interested in her reputation and in trying to revive the series: Oz had essentially been keeping the firm extant for many years. They published _MGR_ and a short series of Baum abridgements, illustrated by Dick Martin. No big success, apparently, and Eloise sure as heck wouldn't have been interested in writing lots more Oz. R&L allowed the series to go out of print, although for many years they'd send a "Temporarily Out of Stock" notice to anyone who ordered a title. Anyway, Eloise was the last of the writers to be published by Reilly & Lee/Britton, so most folks consider her to be the last official Royal Historian of Oz. _MGR_ is the last of the canonical forty Oz books for the majority of older Oz fans. These books were first published either by Hill, Reilly & Britton, or Reilly & Lee. That's why they're "official." "Dirk" was Dirk Gringhuis. His used the odd "Dirk" kinda like a logo. It was a stylistic and marketing choice. Oh, and the reason the "Little Wizard" stories are simplistic is because they were written for a nursery-school-aged audience. Alternate pronunciations: Thanks, Danny and David H. and Ruth , for Lurline and Ojo, Kaliko and Jellia. Anyone got any others? _Oziana_ 1998: It's out. John L. Bell--whom I mistakenly referred to in the issue as Jno. R. Bell :( -- has two stories in it, David Hulan has a tale in it, Mike Turniansky's braintwister is in it, and Atty Gannaway is also in this issue with a story. I'm in there, too. The _Digest_ is a terrific place for associating with creative minds, isn't it? I couldn't resist giving it a sort of a "plug" in the letter from the editor. Now wish me luck, please, in getting the '99 issue out by summer '99. I still have a coupla pages to fill, so if you've got something you'd like to submit, preferably electronically, I'd love to see it. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:45:40 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Nikki Hunter , bevanderson@yahoo.com, chemzim@hotmail.com, cmyersindy@aol.com, Angela Theresa Egic , dbingham@iupui.edu, dlcross@iupui.edu, dove95@hotmail.com, jamasbau@iupui.edu, jhutchin@ivy.tec.in.us, jlsteenb@iupui.edu, Joshua Michael Horstman , Katherine Elaine Ellison , kkarnick@iupui.edu, Larry and Katy Rood , linn@enetis.net, Mandy Barrett , mcoatney@iupui.edu, Michelle Lynn Cummings , nbbutler@iquest.net, Jodi Anderson , SHAYES@UINDY.EDU, switkemp@iupui.edu, "Juventino Marquez Jr." , Zandra Elise Mukes , juasmith@iupui.edu, tgugenhe@iupui.edu, ejkolesz@iupui.edu, sgaley@butler.edu, mbley@butler.edu, OZdigest@mindspring.com, ENGLISH@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU, E450-SH@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU, alaker@iupui.edu, sabian@in.net, jmfrye@iupui.edu Subject: Symptoms of Inner Peace Sorry for cross-postings... I don't think Eileen would mind if I sent you all this...it was in the program, and she would want it disseminated to as many people as possible, so send this to your friends. "1. Tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than from fears based on past experiences. 2. An unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment. 3. Loss of interest in judging other people. 4. Loss of interest in judging self. 5. Loss of interest in interpreting actions of others. 6. Loss of interest in conflict. 7. Loss of ability to worry (a serious symptom). 8. Frequent, overwhelming episodes of appreciation. 9. Contented feelings of connectedness with others and nature. 10. Frquent attacks of smiling through the eyes from the heart. 11. Increasing tendency to let things happens rather than make things happen. 12. Increased susceptibility to love expressed by others as well as the uncontrollable urge to express it. WARNING: This condition of peace is probably in its infectious stage!" --Rev. Eileen Douglas ============================================================================ ==== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."--K, Barry Sonnenfeld's _Men in Black_. "The reason most folk songs are so atrocious is because they were written by THE PEOPLE."--Tom Lehrer ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:18:54 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Things Dave: Well, Egroups.com had to undergo a few problems and maybe thats the reason you didnt receive the welcome message. You'll probably get it today or tomorrow.... Yes, I think Queen Anne counts in, but I wouldnt want her to rule Oz! The iedial Queen would be Queen Jinjur. Jellia Jamb: Jellia, how does your email address happen to be JelliaJamb@mindspring.com. Shouldnt it be something like ozmail.com or something. Ozzy pronunciations: Heres how I pronounce most of the names: Langwidere: Languideya Kalidahs: Kalidaas Kaliko: Kalikoa Guph: gaf Lurline: Lurlin Ugu: Oojoo Ojo: Oajo and not Oaho. In the Wizard of Oz Cinar series, Kalidahs are pronounced Kerlieders. In the Wizard of Oz Paramount cartoon, it is pronounced as Kalidaas, the way I pronounce it. Guph is pronounced as gaf, the way I pronounce it. The Return to Oz Parade: The clown has to Notta and not Mr.Joker, for Mr.Joker was all cracked up. Age difference between Glinda and the GWN: I think they are both the same age, although Glinda's special powers keep her young and beautiful. BTW, does Baum actually say that the GWN is Glinda's siter? If so, Ruth Plumly Thompson is in BIG trouble, for that would mean that Glinda is Orin's sister and it doesnt appear to be so.... David Godwin: Since Oz is a magic country, maybe we really CAN send emails and telegrams e.t.c, even though its in another world. BTW, when are we going to start discussions for -Kabumpo-? This weeks poll: Let see the results of my last poll on Ozzy Conquerors and Rulers. This weeks poll. What are the best Oz Books out of the FF? I'd vote for: The Wizard of Oz The Land of Oz The Emerald City of Oz Which book is the worst? The Royal Book of Oz Untill next time: --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:21:56 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Oops. Oops,to subcribe to the RPG send a blank message to ozzyroleplaying-subscribe@egroups.com. I accidently put subcribe instead of subscribe the last time! Sorry, --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Apr 99 10:40:04 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: covers in oz Nathan DeHoff and David Hulan: Nice points on transmissibility of radio. Nathan DeHoff: Given that Snow had combined the characters of the Soldier and the Guardian, he was right in thinking that the character was married to Tollydiggle, but it was the Guardian, not the Soldier, who had married her. J.L. Bell and David Godwin: Publishers do sometimes supply covers that look bad. Changing covers for later editions as is so often done is evidently a standard practice, but it usually looks like a bad idea (recent editions of C. S. Lewis' Narnia books, Maud Hart Lovelace's Betsy-Tacy books, and Edward Eager's "Half Magic" foursome come to mind), at least when the book is still being marketed as the same sort of book. (The Del Rey Oz books perhaps had a stronger reason for wanting new covers, as their line was targeted at adults.) And sometimes a cover can be strikingly bad. My friend Eleanor Arnason had a fine sf novel published by Tor Books, "A Woman of the Iron People," and the original cover on it was a scantily dressed caucasian woman holding up a skull, the scene framed by red velvet curtains. (For someone who knew the story looking at it, it was hard to avoid thinking that there must have been a mix-up, and somewhere else there was a novel about a hooker who wanted to play "Hamlet" with a cover perhaps of an alien woman working a smithy.) It happens often enough to make it understandable that writers sometimes try to dictate cover content. But you're right that specialists in cover art are likely to be a lot better at designing covers than authors are. The cover on my book "Dear Poppa" (Minnesota Historical Society Press) was a lot better than what I'd imagined. (If you think I'd been imagining something much more complicated and in fact too complicated -- you're right.) J.L. Bell: Do you count trees as creatures? The Tin Woodman chops off some tree limbs in "Wizard." // [*Bell continued, but comment assumes knowledge of "Lost King"*] A counter-example comes to mind for RPT's over-use of exploring mysteries and finding out that people who didn't seem royal are -- with Ozma's father the mystery's answer is "surprise, he isn't interested in being royal!" (Of course, there'd be plot problems if he were.) [end "Lost King" comment] Jeannine Cotler: And Frank Morgan put so much whimsical, gentle sympathy into tone in his caution to the Tin Man about judging hearts. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: SeraMary@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:40:33 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22-99 i have a question was there ever an oz book where the wicked witch of the west and or east came back to life and seeked out revenge ? i am trying to write a book about that if it has not alredy bben done. it Will be called The Destruction of Oz . Let me know of what u think of my idea ! Lisa 22 from Rhode island ( i would love to be the nezt Royal Historian of Oz ! ) ====================================================================== From: LionCoward@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:35:34 EDT Subject: Oz Adepts Hmm. So it was my comment about the cover that is holding up LOCASTA... I do wish that I had been informed of this personally before it was dissected all over the Digest. It would appear that anything I do or say is destined for public criticism and debate. And without my being told. How interesting. I am sending this to the Digest address directly, so that it will be more swiftly diced and analyzed and misinterpreted. Anyway, my suggestion of adding some more familiar characters to the cover was mainly for commercial reasons. At Oz Cons, people tend to reach for the books that look Ozziest. The others tend to get picked up last. Which, in my case, means the vast majority. Also, outside of Oz Cons, an Oz fan will generally miss a book that does not look Ozzy. In other words, an Oz fan who is looking through a second-hand bookstore would likely cast aside a copy of DISENCHANTED PRINCESS to see if there was a TIN CASTLE underneath. It is, in all honesty, my personal opinion that THORNS AND PRIV. FILES has the most beautiful cover ever done for a first-run Oz book. But what Oz fan would see that at a glance and recognise it as an Oz book? Ozga and Files are indistinctive. Could be anyone. Same with Zim and Dinny. Same with the Adepts. It is not necessarily in my best interests to have Oz fans find copies of the books in second-hand stores. In all truth, I'd rather they have to get 'em from me and support the publication of future books. But it is a two-way street. An Oz fan who finds a copy of a book in a second-hand store might have never heard of me otherwise. So either argument is valid. In any event, I'm not as concerned about the cover as you seem to think. If that is what is holding up the book, don't let it. In future, I would muchly appreciate if I could be informed a bit sooner when I am the subject of public mockery. Obviously, that happens a lot, as I am always in the wrong. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:40:09 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz ********** SPOILER FOR WISHING HORSE ********** Gehan: Well, if Oz must be conquered, then I'd vote for the one person who actually succeeded: Skamperoo of Skampavia. IMHO, he is the least mean, vindictive, cruel, overbearing, etc. of all of Oz's would-be conquerors. He would, I believe, cause the least amount of damage and suffering for the people. He doesn't want to be a tryant or kill anyone, he just wants to have some fun for a while. It's still wrong, natch, but he would have the least effect on Oz as a whole. OTOH, Jinjur wouldn't do all that much either, except make the men of EC miserable. Of course, under her, Oz would probably revert to the pre-Imperial kingdoms. ********** END OF SPOILER ********** David Godwin: An ideal place for you (In the Munchkin Country within walking distance of EC) would be the Wogglebug's College. Maybe you could coach one of the sports. I was going to say teach a class, but I remembered the education pills just in time. :-) Gehan: Like/Dislike Accurate/Inaccurate: To avoid to much of a bad thing I'll give one example of each. _A Barnstormer in Oz_ is a very well written book, but it does not jibe with my view of accepted Ozzy history. In fact, it contradicts everything but the very first Oz book. On the opposite side, _The Laughing Dragon of Oz_ was very poorly written, and I did not like it at all, but it was accurate, more because nothing happened in it that because it melded with the FF. Oh, what the hippikaloric. Here's one more: _Dinamonster_ was very good, but rather inaccurate. John Bell: If you mean limbs as opposed to heads, I'd guess that next on the chopping block would be the fighting trees. Gehan: It is with regrets that I must withdraw from your RPG. I am working on a game of my own, and I msut devote all of my time to editing the rulebook and drawing the map. It will be pretty cool, though, once it's finished. Gehan: Gehan, meet Dirk Gringhuis, probably not related to Newt Gingrich. The "Famous Forty" has the line drawn there because that was the end of the almost-yearly publication, and the final one put out by Reilly & Lee. By the time that the Oz Club published other novels, it was felt that the main series really had ended. The Ozzy Osbourne Digest: I think we must accept this mistake, as well as people who think it's about Australia. I may be "Paranoid", but putting us on a "Crazy Train" of name changes would make things even more confusing. We've been the Ozzy Digest too long to change. To make matter worse, one of his albums is called "Blizzard of Ozz" and a song on another album is called "The Wizard"! Jellia Jamb: "Spectral Snow" is, I believe, a collection of some of Jack Snow's darker writings. I don't think it's about Oz, though. Scott Hutchins: Yes, the Melissa guy was from Jersey. He named the virus after his favorite exotic dancer from Florida. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:39:18 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Matters Does anyone know where I can get pictures of the Royal Historians and Royal Iluustrators of Oz on the internet? I've already seen pictures of L.Frank Baum,W.W Denslow and a very old Rachel Cosgrove Payes but I'm looking for the others...... Speaking of Historian,s what would have possibly made Jack Snow think that Omby-Amby and the GOG(Guardian of the Gates) as one character? Baum clearly shows that they are two different characters in -Wizard-. Unless the Guardian of the Gates retired and Omby-Amby took the job as well being the Royal Army of Oz. (I think he had nothing better to do and so the original Guardian gave up his job and let Omby-Amby take it) Trouble is,the orginial GOG reappears in -Wicked Witch of Oz-. Maybe he wanted his job back and Omby-Amby gave it back to him. As for the TollyDiggle confusion, I also think its possible that Omby-Amby divorced and remmaried. Maybe he got tired of his wife's bad temper and so they divorced and he remarried TollyDiggle. Maybe TollyDiggle is a common name in Oz and maybe there are several Tollies in the EC. In -Magical Mimics- Betsy promised to bring flowers for TollyDiggle and I cant imagine her bringing flowers to a woman with a bad temper. But, do you suppose Tolly turned over a new leaf or maybe Ozma told her to control her temper. Still, the best solution seems to be Omby-Amby getting divorced and remmarying.... BTW,I voted for -Royal Book- as the worst FF book.I made a mistake. Now that I think of it, the worst FF book seems to be -Shaggy Man-. I still havent Neill's books and -Merry Go Round in Oz-. I also think that the McGraws second book -Forbidden Fountain of Oz- is terrible! Much worse than -Shaggy Man-. I wonder how -Merry go Round in Oz- is....... Untill next time! --Gehan ====================================================================== From: TotoArf@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:44:27 EDT Subject: Ozzy Digest page just noticed how your Digest webpage appears to Search Engines. How unfortunate... 1000 Ozzy Digest FAQ & Info The Ozzy Digest is : -- A Digest devoted to Ozzy Osbourne -- A Newsletter about Australia -- A Discussion forum regarding weights and measures The Ozzy Digest an electronic newsletter for fans of ... http://people.delphi.com/daveh47/ozzy_faq.html (Infoseek) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Apr 99 09:21:13 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: Pumperdink in Oz comments on "Kabumpo" Well, that's starting a story off with a bang. It's been commented several times on the Digest that RPT is unlike Baum in using so many little kingdoms (like those in traditional fairy tales) and in not using such kingdoms as an occasion for satiric political comment, as Baum usually did when he put in such kingdoms. It's a real difference, but I have found in the past (and find again on this re-reading) that I enjoy RPT's little kingdoms and feel that they fit in with the Ozzy landscape. They're traditional in the sense of consisting of a village with a royal family and without any interest (in the inhabitants or in the narrative voice) in changing this concentration of power, but they're untraditional in the comedy of the homey portrayal. A prince in a traditional fairy tale who set off in search of a princess to marry would usually be portrayed as being much more heroic and self-sufficient and would wind up with a princess a lot more like Ozma than Pompa does. This version of what it means to be a "proper princess" is in its way as subversive as H.C. Andersen's "The Princess and the Pea." It's interesting, too, that Kabumpo, filling the role of helper often taken by animals in traditional fairy tales, is untraditionally unreliable in his judgment of what kind of help is needed. RPT had been doing this kind of comic upending of traditional fairy tales in many of the short stories in her Philadelphia "Public Ledger" children's page -- in fact, she'd used both Pumperdink (more than once) and Suntop Mountain as kingdom names in the "Ledger," although the kingdoms don't otherwise resemble their Ozzy counterparts. The Oz books gave her a way to use such settings at more length, with room for more development of details of place and character (there's no Kabumpo in the "Ledger" Pumperdink) than the children's page format had allowed her. Also in her comedy, I like the wordplay of the invented epithets ("perfectly pomiferous" is different in mood, but as expressive as Baum's expletive "hippicaloric"), Wag's spoonerisms (mostly quite literally spoonerisms, given his regret for his lost silverware), etc. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:48:13 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte Subject: Replies! Nathan: <<>BTW,its not suitable for Thompson to address her readers as "My Dear >Boys >and Girls". All her readers are not boys and girls. Look at the >Digest members for instance. Are they little boys and girls? >No, but I would think that many (if not most) of us started reading the Oz books when we were little boys and girls.>> Also, nobody ages in Oz! So even if you're around 70 years old, you can still get that same effect reading an Oz book as somebody who is seven. John: <> Very true. The original _Wizard_ depicts the Scarecrow and Tin Man sitting next to each other, in a rather stiff formal fashion, while most editions now have all the characters walking down the Yellow Brick Road, probably influenced by the MGMWiz. Also, you can find an image of the Del Rey _Glinda_ cover at http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/2525/coverart/delrey-14.gif For several books, I much prefer the Del Rey covers, actually. Jeaninne Cotler: Welcome to the digest! Dave: The "Ozma Digest" doesn't sound too bad. :) Scott: <> No, actually I found it on the IWOC site. Gehan: <> Actually it's very simple to make a cake without eggs. I have several vegan cookbooks, which all list dairy less cakes including this really yummy chocolate one. So in other words, it's not an unknown method. :) <> The LWSOZ were published in little booklets, a lot like Little Golden books, to promote the newer Oz books. What year was that...1913? Also during the 1930's the Jello company used them as advertising with a radio series. But the series was eventually ditched for Jack Benny. :( If you need anymore info, go to http://www.kraftfoods.com/jell-o/history/1930.html Till we meet again... Peace!! ~Lisa *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%* _ _ .-. | | | |M|_|A|N| "Books wind into the heart...We read them when young, |A|a|.|.|<\ remember them when old. We read there of what has happened |T|r| | | \\ to ourselves...Books let us into the souls of men, and lay |H|t|M|Z| \\ open to us the secrets of our own. They are the first and | |!| | | \> the most home-felt of all our enjoyments." *Wm. Hazlitt* """""""""""""""""" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:25:14 -0700 From: johnny best Subject: Re: Cancelation all you have to do is email, but i can't find you under ozdigest@mindspring.com. johnny best Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > > How do I cancel my membership? ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:52:13 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Oz infinitum Nathan Mulac DeHoff wrote: >David Godwin: >>Speaking of which, if Oz is on some other planet or in some other >>dimension, how can anyone communicate with it via wireless >>telegraphy? Or e-mail? > >I would imagine that it would be just easy (or maybe even easier) for >radio waves to travel to another dimension as it would be for matter >(such as people and their Kansas farmhouses) to make the same journey. But that's not so very easy. It seems to require either magic or some sort of NDE. And if this is so, Fate magazine notwithstanding, why don't we receive random radio signals from other dimensions? Gehan wrote: >Princess Langwdiere: >I really like her character. If I could live >in Ev, I'd most defenetely live with her. But what if she took a fancy to the heads of young men? >David Hulan: >I didnt write that quote either. I confess. >This weeks poll: >If one of the Ozzy conquerors had to finally conquer Oz and rule Oz atleast >for a few months, who would you like it to be? >I'd vote for Jinjur or Coo-ee-oh. Jinjur would probably do the least damage, and she seems to have acquired a little more sense since her revolutionary days. J. L. Bell wrote: >Trivia: >When Nick Chopper's ax was enchanted, the first things it cut off were his >limbs--specifically, his left leg, then his right, then his arms. Nick cuts >many other things with his ax in WIZARD, most often heads. When is the next >time we see this ax chop off a creature's limb? The obvious answer is the head of the wildcat who's attacking the Queen of the Field Mice, but I have a feeling that's not it. Too easy. A quick review of the book fails to reveal anything else, however, except trees. He accidentally steps on a beetle, but that's not chopping. I vote for the wildcat. Gehan again: >BTW,I think the Little Wizard Stories of Oz are really boring! I doubt >they'll satisfy even a two year old. I wonder why Baum wrote such simple >stories and I wonder why Reilly and Lee decided to publish them. The only >two stories that have some scense are: >The Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger >Little Dorothy and Toto >I havent bought the book, so I just read on the net, but tell me, was the >book dedicated to anyone? The stories originally came out as a series of separate little booklets meant to capitalize on the Oz phenomenon right after Patchwork Girl resumed the series that Baum had hoped to terminate with ECOz. They were later collected into one volume. There was no dedication of which I am aware. Personally, my favorite is The Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger, although I was also fond of Tiktok and the Nome King. Neill's illustrations for Ozma and the Little Wizard struck me as distinctly odd, since Ozma is still wearing her robes of state/evening dress costume while trekking through the countryside. She's just a head on a rather shapeless sack. Could be an alien squid body under there for all we can tell. Reminds me of Lovecraft and the yellow veil. But pardon me. I tread dangerously close to lese majesty. Referring to Mustafa of Mudge in RTOz, Scott writes: >He's the guy behind the Braided Man in the procession. Are we looking at the same print of the same film? I cannot detect anyone at all behind the Braided Man. >The Shaggy Man walks in from the right side of the screen. I can't detect this either. If the Shaggy Man is the guy in red with a white beard, I don't see his entrance, or that of anyone else that could be him. Concerning Cap'n Bill and his "balloons": >He's holding the magic flower. You're right. Those are flowers. That's pretty much a positive ID, then. But where's Trot? >Rinkitink appears next to the Bumpy Man. Also, the Guardian of the Gates... >...appears wearing huge glasses near Rinkitink and the Bumpy Man. Got me again. I cannot find any Bumpy Man, much less Rinkitink or the GotG. About the Shaggy Man: >Near the opening of the scene, one can clearly seen an old man near the >front of the procession in a browns suit with ruffles like the fancier >shags Neill depicted post-Road. Sorry, but on the video I have (the 109-minute version), he's just not there - or my eyes are bad. BTW, I never thought the Shaggy Man was especially old. Dave wrote: >RPG: >Gehan wrote: >>Okdokes. Its time to start the RPG. To join the game, send a blank message >>to ozzyroleplaying-subcribe@egroups.com... You will receive a welcome >>message once you have subcribed with more information. > >I subscibed on Tuesday and received nothing. I subscribed after the last Digest came out with this message in it, but I likewise did not receive anything. Technical difficulties, I suppose. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:36:03 -0500 From: d.godwin@minn.net (David F. Godwin) Subject: Return to Oz procession In order to assist in identifying various Ozzy personalities in the procession/coronation scene near the end of RToz, I have made this list of individual camera shots. 1. Pan down from Oz emblem on canopy to couples crossing (interior) bridge. 2. Pan down to parade. Gump enters from right. Pan to front of parade, led by Tiktok. People on both sides of procession. Crowd comes up stairs. This is the longest shot in this list and probably includes the most individuals of note. 3. Close-up (CU) of Dorothy riding Cowardly Lion and flanked by Scarecrow and Tin Woodman. 4. CU of Billina. 5. CU of Tiktok. 6. CU of Jack Pumpkinhead. 7. CU of Mombi in cage. 8. CU of Dorothy, as (3). 9. Mirror on ceiling, pan down to Scarecrow and Dorothy on throne dais, crowd in front. 10. Another view of same from right front of throne. Tin Woodman and Braided Man in foreground. Wheelers enter from right, Tommy Kwikstep and Cap'n Bill at left. 11. CU of Gump. Notta Bit More can be seen in crowd behind. 12. CU of Billina ("Be the queen of Oz, Dorothy.") 13. Crowd, with Jack Pumpkinhead and Tin Woodman in foreground. 14. Tiktok in front of crowd. 15. CU of Dorothy and Scarecrow. Scarecrow takes crown. Someone wearing a peaked hat can be seen in the mirror between them. 16. Scarecrow and Dorothy on dais, crowd. 17. Tiktok, as (14). Musicker plainly visible in purple. 18. CU Dorothy and Scarecrow on dais, back of Tiktok's head in foreground. 19. As 13, with Tommy Kwikstep visible between Jack and Nick. 20. CU Dorothy 21. Crowd as seen from behind Dorothy, Jack Pumpkinhead and Tiktok in front, Frogman in back at left. 22. As 18. 23. CU ruby slippers. They glow. 24. CU Billina. 25. Crowd from behind Dorothy, as 21. She turns. ****SPOILER*****SPOILER***** 26. Tiktok at left, then Scarecrow on throne, then Dorothy in the middle, all facing toward Ozma in mirror. 27. All facing Ozma: Dorothy in front of crowd, Tiktok, Jack, Woodman, Kwikstep, Frogman in back. 28. Ozma in mirror. Part of crowd is reflected in mirror. 29. As 27. Dorothy starts forward. 30. As 26, Dorothy walks toward mirror, Ozma steps forward. 31. Dorothy walking toward camera, crowd in background. 32. Dorothy and Ozma get closer to mirror. 33. View over Ozma's shoulder as Dorothy comes closer. 34. Ozma as seen from behind Dorothy. They come face to face. 35. As 33. 36. As 34. 37. As 33. Dorothy looks up and around, then down. Ozma and Dorothy touch hands. 38. As 34, hands touch palm to palm. 39. Side view of Ozma and Dorothy, mirror shimmers, O & D clasp hands, Ozma steps out of mirror. 40. Ozma and Dorothy in front of mirror still holding hands. They drop hands and look at each other. 41. Jack Pumpkinhead, Tommy Kwikstep, Tin Woodman. 42. Ozma as seen from behind Dorothy. 43. Jack Pumpkinhead yells, "Mom! My real mom!" (Who is the person in the fool's cap?) 44. As 42. Ozma looks around. 45. Jack faints, is caught by the Musicker and a man in a yellow suit. 46. As 44, but with Ozma looking at Jack. 47. CU of people in crowd. They turn to face away from the camera and part to reveal Mombi in cage. 48. Ozma and Dorothy come through the crowd with Jack behind. 49. CU Mombi and a girl in white who makes an announcement. 50. Ozma, Jack, Dorothy, man in red uniform coat with white crossbelt. 51. Very CU of Mombi. ("And that's a fact.") 52. CU of ruby slippers as Dorothy finishes putting them on Ozma's feet. Pan back to show Ozma on throne, Dorothy in front facing her. 53. As 52, but from a distance. Scarecrow to Ozma's left (our right), crowd before throne (Kwikstep left, Jack right). Dorothy turns. 54. CU of Billina. 55. Dorothy at left talking to Billina with Cowardly Lion in background between them. 56. CU of Ozma clicking heels. 57. CU of Gump. 58. As 55, Lion comes closer, Dorothy turns to face Ozma 59. CU of Ozma 60. Dorothy embraces Lion (left), then Tiktok (right). She turns. 61. Dorothy shakes hands with Jack, Lion and Tiktok in background, Billina in foreground 62. CU of Billina 63. Ozma at left. Dorothy says good-bye to Scarecrow. Lion, Tiktok, & Jack are in scene. 64. CU of Scarecrow, pans to Lion and Jack (with Musicker between). Notta Bit More in background to left of Jack. 65. CU of Dorothy. 66. Crowd scene facing throne, Dorothy in center, all wave, everything starts to fade. 67. CU of Dorothy waving, fades 68. CU of Ozma, getting paler, fades into sun on water. *****END SPOILER**** In (2), I think I finally see the guy whom Scott says is the Shaggy Man. Very briefly. He's standing on the left of the procession in front of a potted plant, and he's wearing a sort of violet hat. But then who is the older guy in the parade in the red clothing and with a white beard? I said before I thought I might have had a glimpse of the Wogglebug, but now I think I just saw a feather on some woman's hat. If I keep starting at these scenes long enough, it's only a matter of time before I find Waldo! :) It is noteworthy that, at the end of the film, Toto is supposed to be ecstatic to find Dorothy, but he does not lick her face. She just hugs him while he scans the vicinity for cats. He gets much more excited when Uncle Henry appears on the scene. This dog is a bad actor. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 99 01:47:03 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THIS JUST IN: Dover has published paperbacks of _Scarecrow_ and _Lost Princess_. It looks like the race is on to be the first to publish _Glinda_. I duely note however that the color plates in _LPofOz_ are all in the middle of the volume, and _SofOz_ has no color plates at all. So for the Oz books as originally published, Books of Wonder still seems the way to go. JELLIA: In case anyone is wonderng, that address of Jellia's *does* work, so If you want to E-mail her, that's the address to use. KABUMPO: Gehan wrote: >BTW, when are we going to start discussions for -Kabumpo-? Well, they've kind of started already... A NON-OZZY PRONOUNCIATION: While we're on pronounciations, how do you all pronounce "Aslan"? Most _Narnia_ adaptations seem to say "Ass-LAN", but that always sounds to me like a computer network for donkeys. :) My dad said "AS-lan" when he read the books to me, and that's what I use. SEARCH ENGINES: Infoseek wrote: >The Ozzy Digest is : -- A Digest devoted to Ozzy Osbourne -- A >Newsletter about Australia -- A Discussion forum regarding weights and >measures The Ozzy Digest an electronic newsletter for fans of ... Oh, Hippikaloric... It appears that that "What the Ozzy Digest is NOT" does more harm than good. Out it goes. Jack Pumpkinhead: Sigh. Is there no one more myopic and hollow-headed than I? Scarecrow: Well, excluding most politicans there's the Internet Search Engines... Once again, the correct address for Gehan's Ozzy role-playing game is: ozzyroleplaying-subscribe@egroups.com -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World"