] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, APRIL 30 - MAY 1, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:11:42 -0700 From: Jellia Jamb Subject: Re: Ozzy Things Gehan wrote: >Jellia Jamb: >Jellia, how does your email address happen to be JelliaJamb@mindspring.com. >Shouldnt it be something like ozmail.com or something. Well, Dave recommended MindSpring, so that's what I use. (I *believe* Glinda's on AOL though I'm not sure.) >Jellia,why dont you ask Ozma to transport all the Digest members to Oz? I've >already thought of another Oz adventure. If you have Ozma transport us to >Oz, I'll disenchant Coo-ee-oh and once she regains her own form she'll want >revenge on the Su-Dic and the Adepts. Wouldnt that make another thrilling Oz >Adventure? Sounds good to me, although Ozma is conservative about letting folks into Oz these days... Normally there are many forms that must be filled out in quintuplicate and standing in line in drafty passages for hours. But as the Royal Maid of Oz, I'll see what apron strings I can pull... With a wink and a smile, Jellia. ====================================================================== From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:11:33 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-29-99 My favorite Oz book: EMERALD CITY wins by a long shot. I guess I just liked the coming of Dorothy to Oz forever when I first read the book as a child, and that preference has just stayed with me. Eggs and cake: As I said before, the composition of the eggs would change when cooked. This is much the way that while pure sodium and pure chlorine are each very poisonous--but almost everyone can consume table salt with no problem... <> Ah--but perhaps we do: radio waves at a frequency we can't catch... Until next time, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:25:49 -0500 Subject: Best/Worst FF of Oz From: "David F. Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Gehan: I hate to be a conformist, but my favorite book in the FF is undoubtedly Lost Princess. The one I like the least is Scalawagons. RTOz again: If any of the following entities are in this scene, they must be only in the longer version: Hungry Tiger Hank Wogglebug Sawhorse Jinjur Woozy Glinda Tin Soldier Lavender Bear Trot Betsy Button Bright and so on and so on. Somebody said Jenny Jump is in this scene. How could she be identified if she weren't jumping? - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:43:48 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: out on a limb in Oz Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding! Ruth Berman and Tyler Jones replied to my trivia question about Nick Chopper's chopping correctly [i.e., with the answer *I* had in mind]. The question was: <> Dictionaries define "limb" as an arm, leg, or wing, which eliminates the 41+ animals our heartless friend makes headless. But "limb" can also refer to a tree branch. (David Godwin had that answer too, but looked away at the last moment.) I was therefore thinking of the first Fighting Tree as the "creature" who lost a limb. Some might read "creature" to refer to any living thing, in which case the answer would be the first of the trees Nick chops along the Yellow Brick Road. Ruth Berman wrote: <> No question publishers can use their professional judgment to produce awful covers. Look at any British book catalogue! I think with beloved books we're all fond of the cover on the edition we first read, and dislike nearly anything that replaces it. For instance, Penguin is issuing Wodehouse paperbacks without Ionicus cover art. I despise them. Yet I must acknowledge that Wodehouse's mid-century novels first appeared with cartoon drawings, so Ionicus's style probably looked all wrong to their original readers. I grew up with the "white cover" cover of ROAD, which shows Dorothy and friends reaching Jack Pumpkinhead's cottage. It seems much more enticing than the first edition's dull portrait of familiar Oz characters. Yet I like the posed picture on the "white cover" EMERALD CITY better than either the travelers' departure (first edition) or Ozma on the Sawhorse (later editions). The 1980s Odyssey paperback reissues of Eager may will be an exception to my rule--they're horrors however one comes to them. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Then in DOROTHY & WIZARD Baum makes Omby Amby two different characters all in himself: the Soldier in WIZARD and LAND, and the private/general in OZMA. The Soldier returns, fully bearded and without name or rank, in PATCHWORK GIRL. Neill adds to the confusion by drawing pictures of the Guardian of the Gates in ROAD and PATCHWORK GIRL that look nothing like the WIZARD/LAND conception. In sum, there was a lot of confusion about these gents before Jack Snow. His mix-up is hard to fathom because of his deep immersion into Oz, but he shouldn't bear all the blame. Tyler Jones wrote: <> A nearly convincing argument, but I'd choose Chalk instead of his master. The horse did all the heavy lifting (physical and mental) involved in conquering Oz. And he seems more ethically grounded, if that's not wishful thinking. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Then, to be brutally frank (and not disputing your estimate of books you have read), you're not qualified to judge the worst in the Reilly & Lee canon. And I say that despite being an Oz fan with special fondness for the Neill books. About KABUMPO, Ruth Berman wrote: <> Indeed, one quality of Thompson's little monarchies is that everyone (author, reader, characters) seems to know how small kingdoms in fairy tales are *supposed* to be. The royal households' vocabulary and quirks make them comic, but we still see centuries of European tradition behind them. Usually a Thompson palace is populated by characters struggling to keep up with inherited images: the kings try to be dignified, the princes brave, the generals bold, the advisors wise, the servants competent, the elephants stately. [Queens usually succeed at being pretty or maternal, but not much else.] But something's rotten in the state of Pumperdink, or Ragbad, or Kereteria, and there must be a quest. Then, at the end of these books, the ruling family has moved closer to the traditional ideal, and we rejoice that the royal order is restored and affirmed. The queer folks in Baum's little nations, in contrast, might simply say, "Hereditary monarchy? Princes marrying to carry on the line? What nonsense! We organize our society by drawing lots. And whoever does the best sketch of the lot with the palace on it gets to be the Panjandra that month." Ruth Berman wrote: <> The Scarecrow in ROYAL BOOK, Scraps in GRAMPA, and Jellia in OZOPLANING are other Baum-created and Thompson-elaborated characters who refuse crowns. But that doesn't make them any less royal. A person who turns down an offer of membership in the highest-ranking social club in town doesn't lose status; in fact, she might gain it. Ruth Berman wrote: <> After learning from OZ-STORY how Thompson had written earlier Pumperdink stories, I began to see KABUMPO as the Oz book in which she spread her wings. In ROYAL BOOK she was still writing under Baum's name, using his early characters as her protagonists, addressing a mystery he left behind. But KABUMPO is her own tale. She starts right off with her own place and people (and heffalump). The cover of ROYAL BOOK displays only WIZARD characters; the cover of KABUMPO shows but one familiar face and four new ones. That said, I haven't gotten farther than the cover on this re-read of KABUMPO, having been immersed in pseudonymous Baum instead. You go on ahead; I'll catch up. David Godwin wrote: <> You mean you don't hear tHE V0ICES?! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:44:44 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Things Tyler: I'm sorry that you're leaving the RPG but atleast you didnt have any major characters. BTW, I disagree with you on your iedia of Skamperro ruling Oz. He is so lazy and so laguish.... Oz Poll Results: I'm happy to announce that most Oz fans thought that Jinjur would make the best Ozzy ruler out of the conquerors. She is one of my fav. Oz characters..... Jellia Jamb: Jellia,why dont you ask Ozma to transport all the Digest members to Oz? I've already thought of another Oz adventure. If you have Ozma transport us to Oz, I'll disenchant Coo-ee-oh and once she regains her own form she'll want revenge on the Su-Dic and the Adepts. Wouldnt that make another thrilling Oz Adventure? Someone raised a question as to wheather there were any Oz books in which the Witches of the East and West come to life and claim revenge. In -Father Goose in Oz- the Wicked Witch of Oz comes to life and claims revenge. Also, in my upcoming Oz Book- The Lost Queen of Oz- Polychrome and her sisters meet the Witches of the East and West in the Land of the Dead...... David(Godwin): Sorry it was all my fault. I didnt put the correct subscribing address to my RPG. Send a blank message to ozzyroleplaying-subscribe@egroups.com and you will receive a welcome message along with the gam rules,regulations e.t.c. BTW, who were the characters you wanted to play? Was it Tiktok and Ruggedo? Lisa: Well, most of the Del Rey covers seem to be good but some could have been better. I dont have the Baum books by Del Rey buit I have the first nine Thompson books by Del Rey. The following books by Del Rey should have better covers: *.Royal Book of Oz(It only shows Scarecrow and the Wogglebug) *.Grampa in Oz (Gorba's garden looks horrid in the cover and Princess Urtha looks like Poison Ivy on Batman) This weeks Oz Poll: While waiting for the resulsts of my best&worst FF Oz book poll, heres a poll for this week: If Ozma gave you the chance to meet just a few Oz characters, who would they be? I'd like to meet: Jinjur Coo-ee-oh Princess Langwidere The Good Witch of the North(Locasta) A good name for the Ozzy Digest: Someoneelse has already used the name:"Ozma Digest!". How about:"The Wizard of Oz Digest?" Untill next time! --Gehan ============================================ "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== From: "Christopher Straughn" Subject: Pingarese Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 04:08:10 PDT I was re-reading Rinkitink, when I stumbled upon a passage mentioning "symbols of the Pingarese language" or something like that. Does anyone take this as meaning Pingaree has it's own language? Baum was clearly not referring to the English alphabet. And if Pinagaree speaks its own language, then do Regos, Coregos, Rinkitink and/or Boboland speak this language? Just curious for your opinions. Chris in Turkey _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== From: "March+S.+ Laumer" Cc: DAVEh47@mindspring.com Subject: help wanted with (g)nome kings Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:13:02 PDT X-Sender-Ip: 195.67.149.233 to all participants in the O.D.: a practising author needs research assistance. this is an appeal to all buffs to supply following needed info.: when, where, & under what circumstances do the 2 nome kings, roquat/ruggedo and kaliko, appear for the last time in the canonical oz books?....will be grateful for all advice at: laumer@excite.com _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Ozzy Matters Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:36:48 PDT Robin: >+Who is the Soldier with the Green Whiskers? He's a fuffer named > (shudder) Wantowin Battles. Nuthin' royal about him, either, but I >think we'd've been stunned if there *had* been! Well, he was one of the people on whom the royal cloak was tried in _Lost King_. Actually, this is a bit odd, as I generally picture the Soldier as being taller and skinnier than the others on whom the cloak was tried. (Tora and Sir Hokus are thin, but I don't think of them as being quite as lanky as Omby Amby. _Royal Book_ identifies his weight as 125 pounds, which is less than I weigh, and I'm pretty thin, and probably not as tall as the Soldier.) Gehan: >BTW, does Baum actually say that the GWN is Glinda's sister? No, Baum never gives any indication that any of the witches are related to one another. It was the MGM movie that identified the two Wicked Witches as sisters, and the Good Witches did not receive similar treatment (since there was only one Good Witch in the film). >In -Magical Mimics- Betsy promised to bring flowers for >TollyDiggle and I cant imagine her bringing flowers to a woman with a >bad temper. Why not? They might help to cheer her up. SeraMary: >i have a question was there ever an oz book where the wicked witch of >the west and or east came back to life and seeked out revenge ? I believe that there is an Emerald City Press book (_Father Goose in Oz_, perhaps) that features the return of the WWW. I've also seen this idea explored in at least one short story. Lisa: >The "Ozma Digest" doesn't sound too bad. :) People might think it's a forum for discussing the radio telescope (or whatever it was) that sought for signals from other planets. Also, wasn't there a mention of a band named Ozma on the Digest a while ago? David Godwin: >The obvious answer is the head of the wildcat who's attacking the >Queen of >the Field Mice, but I have a feeling that's not it. Too easy. A quick >review of the book fails to reveal anything else, however, except >trees. >He >accidentally steps on a beetle, but that's not chopping. I vote for >the >wildcat. The wildcat was beheaded, and I think a distinction was being made between heads and limbs. Dave Hardenbrook: >While we're on pronounciations, how do you all pronounce "Aslan"? >Most _Narnia_ adaptations seem to say "Ass-LAN", but that always >sounds to me like a computer network for donkeys. :) My dad said >"AS-lan" when he read the books to me, and that's what I use. I've always pronounced it the same way as you and your father did, and it was pronounced that way on a PBS adaptation of _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_ that I saw. -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:28:03 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Jack Snow on _Bewitched_ The IMDb says he played himself in "Samantha's Shopping Spree" 4/17/69, which is after he died. Isn't that strange. =================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Love is not a positive emotion that begins in us and ends in the positive response of someone else. Love is divine energy that comes from God and has no end." --Eric Butterworth ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:12:02 EDT Subject: Oz Jeremy: Very true. Some things do have their chemical structures changed by cooking, some more than others. You can change back and forth between ice and water fairly easily, but have you ever tried to un-hardboil an egg? Gehan: Baum never said that any of the witches were related. It was only other authors, in and out of the FF, that created the soap-opera like affair where everybody was related. Glinda: "So, you're really my sister-in-law's nephew's cousin's aunt?" Orin: "Well, it's not quite THAT simple" Gehan and the weekly poll: Best of the FF: _Land_, _Ozma_, Kaumbumpo_, _Captain Salt_ Worst: _Road_, _Tin Woodman_, all of Neill, possibly except _Lucky Bucky_. Lisa from "The Family Guy", er, I mean Rhode Island :-) Yes, the WIcked WItches of East and West have come back a few times, although the Wicked Witch of the West seems to come back more often. I don't think they've both ever come back at the same time, though. Chris Dulabone: I'll have to go with Chris on this one. The fact is, that there are only a few Universally recognized Oz characters out there, and unless they appear on the cover, they will likely be skipped over. If I were to see a book with Captain Salt and Ree Alla Bad on the cover, I'd prepare for a grand swashbuckling adventure, but who else would? Ruth: RPT's kingdoms really fall into two categories. First, there's the "We're going to enslave you and turn into creatures just like us", whirlwind of really bizarre citizens that the adventurers meet, battle and escape in one chapter. Then there are the "cozy" kingdoms like Pumperdink and Ragbad. I like the second type and tolerate the first to an extent. Aslan is near: I've always pronounced it like Dave's dad: AZ - lan. As the world turns, so comes the son of the Emperor Over the Sea. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:45:34 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz. Dave: Is the -Locasta and the Three Adepts- cover settled with? When do you hope to get the book published? I cant wait to read it..... Thanks, --Gehan ============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:14:45 -0500 Subject: Oz & Kabumpo From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Mirror: Who writes the lead story in the Emerald City Mirror every issue? Has this person written any Oz books? If not, they should. The stuff I'm reading here is a lot better than some of the FF - very readable, entertaining, and well put together. One thing I particularly like is that the author makes an effort to reconcile past contradictions in the FF rather than blithely creating new ones as so many of the Royal Historians did. Kabumpo: There were a lot of things I did not like about this book: 1. Kabumpo - He could be considered an apt symbol of RPT's elephantine fascination with royalty. 2. The name "Pompa." When I first read the book, I got him mixed up with the Prince Pumper. 3. Pumperdink - The first in a long series of multiplying small medieval kingdoms unnecessarily. 4. Wag - yawn; Uncle Wiggley in Oz 5. Peg - a true grotesque, not nearly as appealing as Pinocchio 6. The silliness and large number of the truly irrelevant IEs, which prove annoyingly distracting during the journey of Kabumpo and Pompa. 7. The business with Ruggedo and his headgear - silly and at the same time disturbing. OTOH, this was a lot better book, IMHO, than Royal Book. Aside from the IEs, it was well plotted and made some sort of sense. The device of the proper princess worked well. It is, I think, undeniable that RPT got better over time. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 01 May 99 13:49:28 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things FAVORITES: Favorite FF: _Patchwork_ -- IMHO this is the most whimsical book, and I love Scraps! _Tin W._ -- Ozma is an assertive and take-charge ruler for once in the FF. _Scarecrow_ -- The Ork, Old Blinkie, and a love story! _Ozoplaning_ -- Starring Jellia Jamb as herself! _Merry-G-R_ -- An interesting change-of-pace: A mediveal atmosphere. And for once a *boy* visitor to Oz who *stays*. Least Fav. FF: _Wonder City_ -- The mother of all rigged elections (Ozma should have won by more than *one* vote!) _Giant Horse_ -- In which the Good Witch of the North is written out of the series _Ojo_ -- In which Ojo is written out of the series _Yellow K._ -- In which the Sir Hokus is written out of the series _Kabumpo_ -- In which the Ozma's potential as a romantic lead is written out of the series SNOW IN APRIL: Scott wrote: >The IMDb says he played himself in "Samantha's Shopping Spree" 4/17/69, >which is after he died. Isn't that strange. Are you sure this is the same Jack Snow...? It seems to me the IMDb has mistaken two people with the same name as one-in-the-same person before, though I can't think who it was offhand... KABUMPO: David G. wroye >There were a lot of things I did not like about this book: > ... > >7. The business with Ruggedo and his headgear - silly and at the same time >disturbing. 8. No explanation of how Ruggedo regained his memory. (Although there *will* be in _Locasta_!) 9. Ozma's "I will never marry" sermon, rendering my writings "sacriligious blasphemy". -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 2 - 6, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:12:07 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: AH ZMAH OF OZ J. L. Bell listed among characters who refuse crowns: <> Gee, I got GRAMPA mixed up with GNOME KING. Better than getting Grampa mixed up with Ruggedo, at least. March Laumer asked: <> Someone in the Nome-tracking bureau will no doubt be on top of this, but I think Ruggedo is last seen in HANDY MANDY as a potted cactus, and Kaliko in LUCKY BUCKY "locked inside his throne." Books with rhyming titles seem to be particularly unlucky for Nome kings. Christopher Straughn wrote: <> Baum did indeed seem to give Pingaree its own language, or at least writing system. And there does indeed seem to be no communication gap between Inga, Rinkitink, and the people of Regos and Coregos. Inga even enjoys Rinkitink's poetry, which would be even harder to do in translation than directly. (Bilbil might have learned the Rinkitink language out of necessity.) Furthermore, once Baum made RINKITINK an Oz book, the language that those characters speak became the language Dorothy speaks, too, and thus the language Ozians speak, and the very language his readers were reading. I think this undercut his original intention in mentioning the Pingarese language, which was to make the island more exotic for his readers. David Godwin wrote: <> The lead story is written by a *different person* each issue: by Cap'n Bill, by Rinkitink, by Tik-Tok, and so on. It says so right in the newsletter. That answer may not satisfy you, but it sounds like THE GLASS CAT OF OZ would. Scott Hutchins wrote: <> Well, BEWITCHED was a strange show. But the simplest explanation is that Jack Snow the author never appeared in movies or TV shows, Jack Snow the performer did, and the Internet Movie Database therefore has no reason to differentiate the two. Martin Amis the critically acclaimed novelist, on the other hand, did act in the pirate movie A HIGH WIND IN JAMAICA as a sullen-looking child, and therefore appears in the IMDb as both actor and writer. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 08:44:24 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Things John Bell: Actually,Scraps refused to be Queen in _Gnome King_ and not _Grampa_. She isn't even mentioned there.... Poll results: It appears that each book has its fans. Lots of folk outside the Digest say that John Neill's books are the worst and I think its the same on the Digest as well. This week poll: While waiting for my:"If You could meet an Oz Character" Poll Results,heres this weeks poll: *.Who do you like more:Alice from -Alice in Wonderland- and -Through the Looking Glass- or Dorothy? To be quite honest,I prefer Alice to Dorothy. I think Alice and Trot would make good companions. *Who is the best out of the three:Dorothy,Betsy or Trot? I prefer Trot. Aging in Oz: Even though Trot says that she's 10 in -Giant Horse- I think she's really about 7. Maybe she preffered to stay 10 once she came to Oz but I think that she's 7. In -Through the Looking Glass- Alice tells Humpty Dumpty that she's 7 years and six months and she has lots of scense for a year old. More scense than Dorothy too I guess. I think that Trot is 7,Dorothy 8 and Betsy 9. Oz Timeline: I was just going through a few Oz Books to refresh my memory the other day when I came across -Road-. Jack's first head spoiled in Januray,his second head spoiled in October and his third head spoiled in April the next year,the same year that -Road- took place. So,this means that the events in -Land- happened two years agowhen you see the dates in which Jack's heads spoiled. So Dorothy's aging line would fit in too. Here's my new Dorothy's aging theory: 1st Year(1897):The Year in which -Wizard- occured. Dorothy is 5. 2nd year(1898):The Year in which -Land- took place. Dorothy is 6 3rd year(1899):The Year in which -Ozma- and -DotWiz- took place. Dorothy is 7 4th Year(1900):The Year in which -Emerald City- occured. Dorothy is 8 Also, if -Rinkitink- started as a non Oz book in 1905,the story would have taken place before 1905 too. I think the Ozzy Timeline would fit that way..... Glinda: Glinda doesnt seem to care much about troubles that arouse in Oz.For instance: *.She didnt do anything when the Witches of the East and West conquered Oz. If the power of good is stronger than the power of evil she could have got help from Locasta and dealt with the Witches of the East and West.Instead,she waits for Dorothy to do everything. *.When Jinjur conquered Oz,she waited for the Scarecrow to come begging for help. She told the Scarecrow that she knew about Jinjur's conquest and that she doesnt want to do anything because Jinjur claimed herself Queen of Oz. Why didnt she go to the Emerald City and stop Jinjur right away? *.If she had the magic record book since -Emerald City- she would have obviously known about the Nome King's plan to destroy Oz. Why didnt she do anything instead of waiting for Scarecrow to come with an iedia? *.Why did she send Scarecrow to Jinxland to stop Blinkie and King Krewl. Couldnt she have handled Blinkie herself? *.She doesnt seem to care about the Flathead/Skeezer war in -Glinda-. Why send Ozma and Dorothy to stop it? Cant she handle the Su-Dic and Coo-ee-oh herself? Jellia Jamb: Well, if Ozma agrees to transport us all to Oz, please make sure not to do so untill you see me dressed in something good. I dont want to come to Oz in my pyjamas. LOL! Dave: I'm still receiving the Digest issues at fauna87@hotmail.com. Was the subscription address changed back to my regular address? Thanks. Untill next Time! Aloha! --Gehan ================================= "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 14:11:41 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Bloopers L.Frank Baum has made a few mistakes in -Emerald City- which I just recalled. *He said that the Nome Kingdom was to the north of Ev to the east of Oz and he said that it was near to the Winkie Country. Did he forgot that the Winkies are in the west? *.Guph tells King Roquat that Glinda's castle lies to the north of the Emerald City,even though it is to the south. Maybe Guph confused Glinda with the Good Witch of the North! *.Guph seems to know more about Oz than Roquat since he tells the Nome King all about the Wizard,Glinda and Ozma e.t.c. Then why did he ask Roquat wheather the Ozites were happy and contended,good people? Surely he should know that too! *.Uncle Henry and Aunt Em suddenly have the cockney accent which they havent have in -Wizard- and -Ozma-. *.Dorothy and her friends passed a purple boundary before getting to the Winkie Country. But if they went to the Quadling Country,everything the boundary should have been red. It appeares that Baum confused the four Country locations. Its as if the Winkies are in the east,the Munchkins in the West,the Quadlings in the north and the Gillikins in the south.... *.Ozma says that Glinda placed the forbidden fountain in the Emerald City centuries ago. But there was no Emerald City centuries ago. Ofcourse through -Lost King- we learn that there was another kingdom where the Emerald City was before. Maybe the wizard destroyed that kingdom to make the Emerald City but maybe he didnt destroy the Forbidden Fountain. BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I prononounce it as Rookart. Untill next time! --Gehan =============================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== From: "Christopher Straughn" Subject: Aslan Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 07:50:57 PDT This is getting more than slightly off subject, but I thought you might find it interesting that "Aslan" is a Turkish word meaning "lion". The correct pronunciation in Turkish is "uss-LUNN". Incidentally, the only other Turkish word I've noticed in the Narnia Books is Tash, which means "stone" in Turkish. Chris on Exchange in Turkey _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== From: Sduffley@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 18:02:56 EDT Subject: Oz Favorites I realize I tend to be a bit silent when it comes to posting, but if it's not too late to toss in my two cents on the "FF Favorites Poll" ... J.L. Bell wrote: <> Perhaps the poll should be refined to query: "For those who have read all of the FF, which Oz books rank as your most favorite/least favorite?" Since I tend toward the democratic, we should simply ask anyone responding to the poll to also state how many of the FF s/he has read. ... A similar poll was run in the Bugle back in the late 60s or early 70s (I believe the results were printed in a "Best of the Baum Bugle", and the results again referenced in Dan Mannix's fine article "Ozma, Tik-Tok and the Rheingold" in the Spring '78 issue). "Ozma" topped the list among the select few who had read the entire series, with "Wizard" a favorite among those who had read ten or less of the books. It's probably safe to say that in 1999, with the bulk of the canon available in one form or another, a lot more of us have read all 40. (And I really shouldn't go around referring to Bugle articles from the 70's, since I'm not quite so old and crusty as all that.) In any event, my own humble opinions: Favorites: -- Magic of Oz: unrepentant villains; the whimsy of the magical word that the author refuses to print for fear his readers will use it; and dire peril from the Magic Flower! ok, ok, there's that trite hooey at the end about the birthday party, but otherwise this is the Oz book I've read and re-read for pure enjoyment more than any other; -- Glinda of Oz: gloomy, but tightly plotted; the imagery of the Skeezers' domed isle rising and sinking (and Neill's accompanying artwork) always captured my imagination; -- Cowardly Lion: I've heard other Digesters diss this one recently, but it was the 1st RPT book I read as a young child (and what a thrill it was to locate a post-Baum Oz book in the barren terrain of the 1970s), and that fact alone counts a lot for me. Least Favorite: -- a close tie between "Hidden Valley" and "Shaggy Man". Difficult to tell which one is duller, more poorly written, and/or least imaginative. Even Neill at his worst (Wonder City) is livelier and full of clever touches. Best Written (sorry, I'm adding new categories): -- Merry Go Round. Hands down. No question. (My opinions on this are recounted at length in the Spring '90 Bugle -- sorry again for the cross-references!). Most overrated: -- Wizard. Yes, it's sacrilege ... please hold back on the flames, folks ... Wizard was the last Baum book I read. As ground-breaking as it is, with many important themes, I find it slow-going and the writing hopelessly blah. Re-reading it with my 8-year-old two years back, he wasn't particularly impressed, either. -- Land. Yeah, so Tip, the boy whose adventures I've followed throughout the story and with whom I've so closely identified turns out to be ... not just a girl, but the missing princess of Oz? Whoaaaa, Dr. Freud, make room on that couch for me! (I'll never forget the shock that revelation registered on my son's face when we read that one!) That plot twist is akin to our modern-day Hollywood-Special-Effects -Blockbusters, where story substance is not nearly as important as shocking the audience. ... Many readers seem to have shared my opinion that it was unfair to unload Tip that way. I'd better shush for now ... Sean Duffley ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 17:45:06 -0500 Subject: Oz things From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Kabumpo: Dave wrote: >8. No explanation of how Ruggedo regained his memory. (Although > there *will* be in _Locasta_!) I had always assumed (in the various books) that the effects of the Waters of Oblivion wore off after a few years. I stated previously that I did not care much for Peg Amy in this book, but that's just as well. *****SPOILER***** She seems to be the first in a long line of characters whom RPT slated for extermination by disenchantment. *****end SPOLER***** Gehan wrote: >Sorry it was all my fault. I didnt put the correct subscribing address to my >RPG. Send a blank message to ozzyroleplaying-subscribe@egroups.com and you >will receive a welcome message along with the gam rules,regulations e.t.c. >BTW, who were the characters you wanted to play? Was it Tiktok and Ruggedo? Yes, but also (and mainly) Cap'n Bill. I tried this revised address (thanks) and got back a request to confirm by choosing "reply" and sending a blank message, which I did, but I have not yet received any rules, regulations, or acknowledgement. What did I do wrong this time? :( J. L. Bell wrote: > But >"limb" can also refer to a tree branch. (David Godwin had that answer too, >but looked away at the last moment.) If I only had a brain. - David G. ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 23:14:25 EDT Subject: Oz Gehan: That, my friend, is the whole point, at least from a member of the radical right :-) I believe that when the lead "gummint" figure is lazy and do-nothing, the people prosper. :-) That is, if I interpreted your question correctly. I assumed that you asked "If somebody MUST conquer Oz, who would you pick?" as in the lesser of two evils. You may have actually asked "Who, among the standard villains, would be the best ruler?". In that case, I'd pick either Skamperoo again (knowing that Chalk would be his adviser) or maybe Jinjur. This is based on my earlier assumption that under her rule, Oz would see a massive decentralization, since I do not believe that she could exert much power beyond the Emerald City. Meet the Press: Gehan's poll question: I'd like to meet the GWN (all of them), the Wizard, Glinda and Jinjur. I'd also like to meet Polychrome, but (ahem) in a rather different situation. :-) Christopher Straugh: There is no indication that multiple languages were spoken in _Rinkitink in Oz_. They may have had a unique written language, and spoken the same basic language that everybody else does in Baumgea. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: "Bea & Herschel Premack" Subject: Fw: for the Ozzy Digest Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:13:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 Dave Sent this message the other day and not sure you received it so sending it on again. Thanks, Bea ---------- > From: Bea & Herschel Premack > To: DaveH47@mindspring.com > Subject: for the Ozzy Digest > Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 12:12 AM > > Greetings...We have been away from South Dakota on and off for almost 3 > months and I am just catching up with past Digests. In the next week or so > I will begin to fill you in with details of next summer's L Frank Baum Oz > Festival, the Dakota Heritage. Plans are progressing well but there are a > lot of details that need confirmation. > Anyway, in December we were in Israel and the first bookstore we went into > had WOZ in Hebrew. Of course, I had to buy it. Does anyone know where I > might find copies in any other languages? Are there any current > publications? Any suggestions? > Thanks, > Bea Premack ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:32:04 -0500 Subject: More Oz From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Gehan: >If Ozma gave you the chance to meet just a few Oz characters, who would >they be? I don't know exactly how many "a few" is, but here's my top ten, more or less in order: Ozma, Dorothy, Glinda, Trot, Cap'n Bill, Scarecrow, Tin Woodman, Tiktok, Cowardly Lion, the Woozy. RPG: I did receive the RPG rules and regulations around 8 o'clock Sunday night, so my whining was premature. For some reason, though, it took about 12 hours from confirming my subscription to receiving that message. I don't know if that's usual or not. Anyway, all's well now. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 May 99 09:43:58 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: Wizardry in Oz Jeremy Steadman, J. L. Bell, Lisa Mastroberte: Interesting, what a variety of eggless cake possibilities you turned up. Enjoyed John's riff on airline food for nomes. J.L. Bell: You're right that characters can be made to travel, and the choice has more to do with the attractiveness of the character than the plot problems. What I was thinking of as plotting problems (difficulty of imagining something for Ozana to do that would happen outside her garden, for instance) is probably another aspect of the character's attractiveness (Ozana's garden is maybe more interesting than Ozana herself?). SeraMary/Lisa 22: As Robin Olderman and Tyler Jones were saying, the title of "Royal Historian of Oz" basically ended with the closing of Reilly & Lee. (Of the authors published by the IWOC Club, RPT, Cosgrove, and the McGraws already held the title, and Dick Martin probably gets included as an extension of being already the "Royal Artist of Oz" to illustrate the McGraws' R&L work -- although he objected when an article he wrote for the "Baum Bugle" about the process of writing his "Ozmapolitan of Oz" was headed "Notes by a Royal Historian," because he didn't feel the title appropriate for him. None of the various authors published by Emerald City, Buckethead, etc., have been generally referred to as RHs of Oz. The IWOC is going to publish a book by Gina Warwick, and it remains to be seen if she will be generally referred to as RH, but I suspect not.) It may be unfair to use a casual email letter as a sample of what you would write formally -- but it looks from this note as if you would probably need to spend a lot of time working on straight grammar and spelling. Are you in school? Have you talked to a teacher about wanting to write and asked for advice? David Godwin: Thanks for the shot-by-shot listing. LionCoward [Chris Dulabone?]: I'm sorry that you felt the discussion of possible cover art mocked you. I think you over-reacted to humorous tones of some comments, though. It doesn't seem to me that any of the humor was mocking -- rather, the people were seriously discussing what makes up good cover art. (Whether the general comments being made would be helpful to the specific situation is another question, but the different reactions might perhaps at least help you and Dave in clarifying where you disagree over the cover and in looking for ways to come to agreement.) Christopher Straughn: The reference to a Pingarese language does make it sound as if Baum was thinking in terms of a different language spoken there (perhaps a leftover from the original ms., written before he decided to make it an Oz book). Still, it might be taken as a description of a non-Roman alphabet being used to spell English (assuming English to be the language commonly spoken in Oz and the surrounding countries -- RPT's books say "Ozish" is the same as English; Baum's do not specify, except, of course, that Dorothy&compatriots have no trouble understanding Ozites). Or perhaps at one time Pingaree used a language different from the language of the continent, and the book is in that language. Or perhaps they all actually speak different languages (English, Ozish, Pingarese, Evese, etc.), but magic keeps anyone from noticing the fact -- but this "explanation" seems unreasonably complicated! March Laumer: Kaliko last appears in "Lucky Bucky," when Bucky and his whale swim through Nome territory. Ruggedo last appears in "Handy Mandy," when he is turned into a jug, although he plays a part in "Lucky Bucky" and "Magical Mimics" because of things done in the past. He is referred to briefly in "Shaggy Man" and "Merry-Go-Round" (also "Forbidden Fountain"), but does not take part in events in those. An additional "Kabumpo" comment -- there seems to be a continuity gap when Ruggedo walks off with the castle. Everyone is worried, except the Wizard, who is serene and seems to have some kind of a plan. When the narrative cuts back to the castle, the Wizard is not mentioned again. I wonder if RPT meant to have him do something later in the story and forgot about it, or if the single sentence was inserted by editorial request to keep this popular character in view and make sense of the handsome full-page portrait of the Wizard Neill had supplied. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:36:15 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 04-22 thru 05-01-99 Vacation has left me with three Digests to respond to. So let's get started... 4/22: Nathan: >In _Purple Prince_, Kabumpo runs from Jinnicky's domain to the desert >(presumably staying in Ev the whole time), and then crosses the desert >into the Winkie Country. I couldn't remember whether that desert crossing ended up in the Winkie Country or the Gillikin; I know they got to the latter rather quickly. J.L.: > Since the original Oz books' heyday, children's book cover art has become >much more dynamic, especially on paperbacks. A "posed" image, such as the >picture of Glinda, Dorothy, and Ozma on GLINDA, wouldn't cut it anymore. That cover style was pretty typical of Neill; most of his covers were similarly "posed." About the only ones that weren't were the original for _Emerald City_ , maybe _Magic_, _Giant Horse_, _Pirates_, _Speedy_, _Captain Salt_, and _Scalawagons_. (I haven't seen the cover of _Cowardly Lion_ lately, so I'm not sure about that one, though as I recall it was a posed shot of Notta, Bob Up, and the lion.) The ones I mention are the only ones where the characters on the cover are actually doing something other than mugging for the "camera." Even some of those - _Magic_, _Speedy_, and _Scalawagons_ - illustrate something that never happened in the book. Gehan: >Instead, I'll simply swallow one of Oscar's >wishinh pills and wish to be the greatest sorcerer in all Oz. Thats a >million times easier! There's a big question in my mind as to whether that would work. How could a pill invented by one magic-worker act to make someone else a better magic-worker than the one who invented the pill? It doesn't compute. Besides, the fun is to a great extent in the learning; I doubt if I'd want to actually _do_ that much magic. >I still prefer to beleive that the events in -Magical >Mimics- took place before Thompson's books, but someone said that that would >be impossible, since Edgar Pole invented the lost pine boy in -Story Blossom >Mountain- in the 1930's. That's Edgar Bergen, not Pole. Of course, if you consider that the America of the Oz books is also in a parallel world that has a different history from ours, then you can arrange the chronology of the books pretty much to suit yourself. >If one of the Ozzy conquerors had to finally conquer Oz and rule Oz atleast >for a few months, who would you like it to be? I'd say Jinjur, Queen Ann, or Skamperoo, none of whom was particularly nasty. Most of the others (Ruggedo, Wutz, Mombi, Strut, the chocolate general, etc.) would have oppressed the ordinary Ozites as well as removing the rulers. Mogodore is a marginal case; he's worse than Jinjur or Ann or Skamperoo, but not as bad as the others I've mentioned. I wouldn't count Coo-ee-oh as an "Ozzy conqueror"; she doesn't seem to have had any ambition to extend her rule beyond the Skeezer country, though within her domain she was one of the nastier rulers. Same would go for other local villains like the Su-dic, Mooj, Blinkie, Krewl, Mustafa, Glegg, Faleero, etc. Jeannine: Welcome to the Digest! Hope to hear more from you soon. David G.: >As for learning magic, remember that "With great power there must also come >great responsibilty" (Spiderman). In the case of Glinda's other pupil, the >Wizard, he is always dashing off to ride half the length of Oz in a great >hurry on the Sawhorse (ouch!) to fetch his black bag or to tell Glinda >about a crisis. I don't think that maybe three times in 40-some years is "always." He does the round trip twice on the Sawhorse in _Lost Princess_, but when else does he dash off anywhere in a great hurry, other than by magical means? I think I could live with that... Danny: >Did you get Kalidah (kalEEdah or kalEYEdah) and Lurline (lurLEEN or lurLINE) ? I've never heard "kalEEdah"; the variants I've heard have been KALidah and kaliDAH. (I say kalEYEdah myself, because if it was supposed to be KALidah I think Baum would have spelled it "kallidah," and "kaliDAH" sounds to me as if the plural ought to be "kalidot." :-)) Gehan again: McGraw certainly respected Thompson, but I don't see any evidence in her books that this implied any rejection of Baum. _Merry-Go-Round_ doesn't use any Thompson characters at all, aside from peripheral mentions, and _Forbidden Fountain_ only uses Kabumpo. Both use Baum characters centrally: Dorothy and the Cowardly Lion in MGR; Ozma in FF. As others have told you, the Little Wizard Stories were written for a younger audience than Baum's other Oz books (which is one reason why they aren't in the FF). They're certainly slight, though I rather enjoy "Little Dorothy and Toto," "The Cowardly Lion and the Hungry Tiger," and "Tik-Tok and the Nome King." I don't care much for the other three. Dave: Egg Beaters includes egg whites, I believe. I expect that either Ruggedo's cakes were the eggless kind or as some have speculated, cooking takes the curse off eggs for Nomes. Though in the latter case either the cook isn't a Nome or he/she wears gloves to handle the eggs - and given the terror the mere sight of an egg seems to inspire in Nomes, I think the latter is unlikely. 4/29: Jeremy: >Perhaps the Kalidah? Yes, it must be, because the giant spider came >during the journey to Glinda's palace. The Tin Woodman didn't ever kill a kalidah directly with his axe (he cut the tree bridge they were crossing and they fell to their deaths in an abyss), or for that matter the giant spider at all (the lion knocked its head off). Robin: At least I've seen most of the movies you rate in your Top Ten. (Exceptions were "Romeo and Juliet" and "Rebecca.") I agree that all I've seen are excellent movies, though I'd only put "Singin' in the Rain" and "Fantasia" in my own top ten, with "The Quiet Man" and "Meet Me in St. Louis" making my top 25 or so. ("Shakespeare in Love" has to age a bit before I'd rate it on an all-time basis; I loved the movie, but I've only seen it once and need more perspective.) I got the 1999 _Oziana_ a few days ago and found it excellent. The lead story, of course, is superb! :-) (For those of you who don't have it yet, that's my story...) Is there anyone represented in it who isn't a regular contributor to the Ozzy Digest? (Artists aside; maybe even those, though I haven't checked for their identities.) Gehan: Best Oz books? I rate the following as A's, with little distinction among them: Ozma, Patchwork Girl, Rinkitink, Lost Princess, Speedy, Wishing Horse, Merry-Go-Round. Worst (of the FF, I assume you mean; there are a lot of really terrible non-FF books out there): Wonder City and Scalawagons, about equally bad and substantially worse than any others. Baum's weakest is Road by a fair margin; Thompson's are Cowardly Lion and Ozoplaning. Hidden Valley and Shaggy Man are also not very good. Ruth: My friend Bruce Coville has complained bitterly about the cover of the paperback version of _Jennifer Murdley's Toad_, which shows Jennifer as a pretty little blonde - when a major point in the story is that Jennifer is homely as a mud pie. Lisa 22 from Long Island: I believe that the WWE came back to life in one of March Laumer's books - or maybe it was that her spirit animated Aunt Em? I haven't read the book, just a review of it. In any case, go for it - neither witch ever returned in an "official" book, so your version is as valid as anyone else's. Gehan again: Now, I think _Forbidden Fountain_ is a lot of fun - better than a significant number of the FF. I'd rate it somewhere between a C+ and a B-, on a par with, say, _Tik-Tok_ or _Kabumpo_ or _Jack Pumpkinhead_. What did you find so terrible about it? Ruth: Since you're the first to start discussing _Kabumpo_ I'll start my comments on it here. I haven't had a chance to reread it recently (though I'll try to get to that in the next two or three days), so my comments here are more general in nature. This is a book that always has seemed to me better in prospect than in actual reading. When I was a child it was my least favorite of all the Oz books I owned - which means that I even preferred _Ozoplaning_ and _Lucky Bucky_. As an adult I think it's better than either of those, but it's still somehow vaguely unsatisfying compared with many of the other Oz books. Part of it may be that some of the IEs are so very irrelevant (notably Rith Metic and the Illumi Nation) that they get in the way of the story. Also, even as a child I found Pompa's saying, "They remind me of something disagreeable. Why, they're _books_, Kabumpo..." as singularly inappropriate for the protagonist of a book. It's true that he goes on, "...great big arithmetic books," which may be intended to imply that only arithmetic books are disagreeable - but unfortunately the edition I have (and I think all R&L editions would be the same) has that continuation overleaf, so the association of books with something disagreeable is maintained for at least the time it takes to turn the page. And then the box of mixed magic keeps opening and closing at just the right times to work the plot - even more of a deus ex machina than we get in most Oz books. It seemed artificial to me when I was a kid and seems just as artificial now. Still, I do like Wag and Peg and Kabumpo, and Ruggedo seems more fun than he was in any of Baum's books. His history on eight rocks is quite amusing, and his tantrums with Wag are reminiscent of his personality in _Emerald City_ while being much more innocuous. It's a better book than Thompson's first, or than her next two, but it's not as good as most of Baum. Dave: I agree with your father's pronounciation of "Aslan." 5/1: Jeremy: >Ah--but perhaps we do: radio waves at a frequency we can't catch... It doesn't even have to be at a frequency we can't catch; if the modulation method isn't one that our receivers are designed to detect, it could be at a frequency we could receive but don't. Without the proper detection method it would just come in as noise. Gehan: Which Oz characters would I like to meet? Far too many to rate as a "few." Ozma, Glinda, Dorothy, Trot, Cap'n Bill, the Glass Cat, Eureka, Professor Woggle-bug, Reera, Azarine, Jellia, Scraps...those come to mind quite quickly, and I'd hate to leave any of them out. If restricted to four I guess I'd take Ozma, Dorothy, the Glass Cat, and Reera. Chris: Since Inga is able to converse with Dorothy without a translator, and as far as we know Dorothy only knows English/Ozish, the reference to the "Pingarese language" is either a reference to a writing method that's unique to Pingaree (as, say, Serbian and Croatian are essentially the same language but written with different alphabets), or the people of Pingaree have their own language that's used locally, but all speak fluent Ozish as well (like the shellbacks in _Pirates_). We had some discussion of this back when _Rinkitink_ was the BCF, as I recall. David G.: >Mirror: >Who writes the lead story in the Emerald City Mirror every issue? Has this >person written any Oz books? If not, they should. The stuff I'm reading here >is a lot better than some of the FF - very readable, entertaining, and well >put together. One thing I particularly like is that the author makes an >effort to reconcile past contradictions in the FF rather than blithely >creating new ones as so many of the Royal Historians did. Thank you. Yes, this person has written one published Oz book, yclept _The Glass Cat of Oz_, and a couple of others that haven't been accepted. This applies to the last two stories - the invasion of the Jabberwocks and the undersea adventure; before that they were written by the late Gilbert Sprague, who also wrote two or three books for ECP. Dave: The only ones of your favorite/least favorite choices that I take strong exception to is _Ojo_, which I consider one of the better books in the series (Ojo isn't written out of the series; he's just as potentially useful in Seebania as he was in the EC, where he wasn't used in any significant way anyhow though he's mentioned a few times), and _Ozoplaning_, which despite Jellia's major role (which I quite enjoy) is really a pretty bad book overall. I like _Yellow Knight_ more than you do and _Tin Woodman_ less, but those differences are within the bounds of taste. David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Wayne A. Hayden" Subject: More ruby slipper sitings Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:23:12 -0000 I am writing to you because you seem to be as interested in the slippers as I have recently become. My fascination began when a group of drunken kids from my hometown of Richmond, Virginia stole the ruby slippers! Let me explain: The children's theater here, Theater IV of Virginia, was staging a performance of "The Wizard of Oz" and they constructed, or had constructed, a pair of styrofoam ruby slippers that were to serve as an advertisement for the production. They were 5 feet high, yes that's right, 5 feet! They were displayed proudly on the marquee of the theater for everyone to enjoy when one night a group of drunken fools decided to scale the marquee and steal the slippers. And steal them they did! The police were led right to the culprits by simply following the trail of glitter that had fallen off the slipers as they were being drug to their new home by the fools. 4 people were arrested and cahrged with larceny and destruction of public property. The slippers were torn to shreds by the time they were recovered and were feared to be irrepairable. Repairs for the slippers were donated by a local artist and successfully completed this past week. The new and improved 5 foot ruby slippers are once again proudly displayed atop the marquee of Theater IV for all to see. I think this is a great story because it really shows that the slippers have an effect on people. So far they are facing up to 4 yrs. jail time a piece because the advertisement value of the slippers was placed in aprice range that made their charges become felony charges. I will keep you abreast of the details. Smiles for the slippers, Yvonne ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:16:25 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-01-99 Chris: It may be that Pingarese is written with different characters, but is the same language, as Yiddish is a dialect of German written in Hebrew, and Serbian and Croatian are essentially the same language, but one uses the Roman alphabet and the other, the Cyrillic, since we know Ozish is an English dialect from _Pirates_. ========================================= Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Love is not a positive emotion that begins in us and ends in the positive response of someone else. Love is divine energy that comes from God and has no end." --Eric Butterworth ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 06 May 99 13:34:23 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things POLL: If I could meet a few Ozites, it would be: Ozma, Jellia, the Good Witch of the North, and the Adepts. RUGGEDO: The last he's seen in the Canon is _Handy Mandy_, where he's turned into a cactus, and it's the view of many that any new story about Rug should revert him to a cactus at the end so as not to inadvertantly contradict other non-Canonical books... This is the biggest bit of advice about my writing of _Locasta_ that I haven't taken. :) Actually, I have reason to believe that Ruggedo escaped, changed his identity, and is now teaching my Windows Programming class, where if you dare to mention Java he turns you into an ornament. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 7, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Submission address: OzDigest@mindspring.com Contact the moderator: DaveH47@mindspring.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:25:47 EDT Subject: Oz Gehan: Dorothy goes through a lot of incarnations, while Alice stays pretty much the same. ALice seems to be more intelligent than Dorothy, but of course, Dorothy has much more stage time in all of the books put together, so she is more present in my mind. On ages: Well, Gehan, you seem to be drifting over to the Chris Dulabone camp, where everyone in Oz is a very young child. Your ages seem to be a little low. I don't get the sense at all that Trot, Dot and Bet(sy) are 7, 8 and 9. THat is, IMHO, far too young especially given the time out of Oz that Dorothy spent before she moved there permanently. Also, Trot had two adventures before moving to Oz, and she must have aged some as well. Your chronology would seem reasonable if you only include the FF. SInce I include other books, there is no way that I can squeeze all of those into so short a time frame. You may be over-estimating GLinda's power. It is a truism in literature (especially children's) that good always wins over evil, but Glinda may simply not have been powerful enough to steamroller over all four Wicked Witches, even with Locasta's help. It is possible that the best she could manage was a relatively uneasy truce, a balance of power, until Dorothy arrived. Also, it is my opinion that Glinda is an agent of Lurline sent by her to prepare Oz for Ozma's arrival. She may have sacrificed certain events in the short term for the overall goal of Ozma. Remember that the Great Book of Records does not always give full details of events that you and I would consider important. The intense magic of the creatures involved may have rendered their effort opaque to the Book. At best, it may have said the Nome King really "digs" his guests. :-) As for the events in _Scarecrow_ and _Glinda_, I can't give an answer. She does appear to have dropped the ball on this one. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 14:51:17 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Hidden Valley of Oz: David (Hulan) and Sean said that it is a very weak. I disagree. I think its a well-written,nice story. Rachel Cosgrove is one of the best FF authors. She has also written her stories in simple language and her stories are not complicated in the least. The plot in -Hidden Valley- is somewhat simmilar to -Wizard-. Jam gets off his crate and meets three Gillikens with trimmed bells in their hats,just like Dorothy met the three munchkins in -Wizard-. He will do anything to get back home, the same way Dorothy acted in -Wizard-. Terp has conquered and forces the Gillikens to work hard the same way the WWW conquered the Winkies and held them in bondage. Overall,I think it was a very good book. (Not to mention,I read it on a very miserable,rainy day and so the book cheered me Ruggedo: It appears as if the effects of the Truth Pond and the Forbidden Fountain ware off pretty quickly through the evidence in -Shaggy Man-,-Tiktok-,-Sky Island-,-Kabumpo-e.t.c David Hulan and David Godwin: One of you said that Ruggedo appears in -Magical Mimics-. But he doesnt! I dont think that the Ozites speak in different languages. Jellia says so in -Land-. Maybe other tribes like the Loons,Horners,Hoppers,Tottenhots sepak in different languages but the Magic of Oz enables us to understand them. Oz Polls: Each of you seem to prefer to m,eet your own favorite Oz Charfacters. While waiting for the resulsts of my last poll,heres this weeks poll: Which version of -Wizard- was better,the MGm Movie or the Book? The book ofcourse. Untill next time! See ya! --Gehan ============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:52:31 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Okay, first off, a request: Dave, if you are not going to forward any mail from the daveh47 address to the digest, then will you kindly put the "ozdigest" address in the reply-to:field, or at least not every now and again what the right address is in the header or trailer of the digest? I ad a computer crash necessitating a new computer a few months ago, and have not been able to post a letter since, until Ruth told me the new address. so I am going to forward here a couple of old messages I sent which never appeared: Jan 25: (sorry, can't remember your other address, as I will explain:) As to how Eureka got back to Oz: I dunno. I'm always reading documented stories of cats (and dogs) who travel thousands of miles across the country to be with their owners who have left them behind. Why couldn't Eureka have done that? How she did it may be doomed to remain a mystery. Re: names going in and out of fashion: I was in the process of compiling a list (as I have done before) of names and when people had them to verify the contention of whomever it was about whatever names (Joshua??) they were not being heard of (or at least common) before 1950. I do this by compiling first names from several of my company's clients, cross-indexed by date of birth (some 10,000 names or so). This was how, for example I saw a great spike in the name "Dorothy" in popularity starting in 1939. "Samantha" had a similar spike in the 1960s when "Bewitched" was popular. The last time I compiled the list (probably about 10 years ago), the "youngest" name on it was "Justin" which averaged about 4.5 years old. You can also use it to compare Richard vs. Dick vs. Dickie vs. Rich vs. Rick. vs. Ricky, etc. Unfortunately, before I could do this, my computer melted down, a casualty of the ice storm and subsequent blackout that Baltimore was hit with last week. I have a new computer, but of course, much data was lost. (I also had to do things like saw a 30 foot branch off my tree with a hand saw and cut it into 18" lengths). But I will eventually get back to this project.... --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky Feb 4: D. Hulan: > Incidentally, there's one > statement in _Handy Mandy_ that does appear to imply that Thompson thought > Oz was much bigger - she says Keretaria was a hundred leagues north of the > Sapphire City. Since a league, though not well-defined, is usually taken as > about 3 miles, I looked it up and you were right re: the definition of league. Does this mean that Jules Verne's (/Disney's) "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" could be renamed "7 Earth Diameters Under the Sea"? Quelle dommage! --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky Feb 7th: > TO LISA: > Sorry, I forgot to answer your question yesterday! As Tyler said, > the Ozzy Digest is sort of the descendant of Nate Barlow's _Ozian Times_ > and Chris Heer's short-lived Oz mailing list. The "charter members" > of the Ozzy Digest are largely people who were on those lists: Me, Nate, > Tyler, Eric G., Peter Hanff, Robin O., David Hulan, Jim Vander Noot, > and a few others. (Don't forget me. I was one of the ones the Eric Gjovaag contacted upon the demise of Nate's list) --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky Today: Well, people already wrote back with the Pingarese to Serbocroatian analogy, goshdarn it! (BTW, what language do they speak/write in Slovenia? Macedonia (FYROM)?), so I will merely be reduced to pointing out the anti-example of Chinese, where the written language is common to many languages and dialects, even thought te spoken languages differ greatly. Gehan: I pronounce Roquat to rhyme with loquat, of course (RO-kwat)! David Godwin: Remember that Gehan lives in Sri Lanka, so the time difference is probably due to his sleeping! David Hulan: Well, *I* had always pronounced it KalEEdah until the discussion in the digest years ago made it clear that Baum probably meant to be evocative of kaleidoscope, so changed my pronounciation accordingly. YOU are the author of those wonderful serials in the Mirror??? WOW! I guess I GOTTA go out and buy GLASS CAT now! --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky (sorry for the length of this post, but ya know, 7 months of catching up to do!) ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:14:57 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Gehan >*.Who do you like more:Alice from -Alice in Wonderland- and -Through the >Looking Glass- or Dorothy? Dorothy, by a large margin. This may not be very fair to Alice, though; she appeared in only two books, whereas Dorothy was a central character in ten and a major character in five or six more. (I'm not counting Philip Jose Farmer's heretical use of both characters.) If I had only the first two "Dorothy" books (_Wiz_ and _Ozma_) I might well opt for Alice, but by the time you factor in Dorothy's roles in (particularly) _Emerald City_, _Lost Princess_, _Wishing Horse_, and _Merry-Go-Round_, she comes out well ahead. >*Who is the best out of the three:Dorothy,Betsy or Trot? I prefer Trot. If you count only Oz books, Dorothy is again better developed because of her far greater number of appearances. If you add in _Sea Fairies_ and _Sky Island_, then it's very close and I might go either way on a given day. Trot is a more central character in the two non-Oz books and _Scarecrow_ than Dorothy is in any books but _Wizard_, _Ozma_, and _Wishing Horse_ You of course have the privilege of believing the children in Oz are any age you choose, and Chris D would probably applaud your opinion on this, since he thinks Ozma is only 8. But to me, Dorothy doesn't act like a 7-year-old in _Ozma_ or _DotWiz_, or an 8-year-old in _Road_ or _Emerald City_ or later. I read to 4th graders, who are typically about 9, and none of them are as mature as Dorothy is in any of the books except _Wizard_. Also, Baum is very explicit that Ozma appears to be 14 or 15; while he says Dorothy is "much younger," it's doubtful that he means as much younger as 8. Do you know any 14-year-olds who have kids in the the 7-9 range as best friends? Even 10-12 is pushing it some, but at least it's thinkable. Regarding Jack's heads, you're assuming that none of his heads lasted as much as a year. While, as it happens, I agree that they probably didn't, so the first six books are compressed in time compared to the time between publications, you can't take it as proof. My chronology, as I've said before, is: Wizard: 1899 (probably June) - Dorothy is 8 Land: 1900 - Dorothy is 9; Jack's first head is made in June (we have to assume pumpkins ripen year-round in Oz) Ozma: September 1901 - Dorothy is 10; Jack's second head was made in January and his third next month DotWiz: June 1902 - Dorothy is 10 or 11; Jack's fourth head was made in April Road: August 1902 - Dorothy is 11 EC: November 1902 - Dorothy is 11; Jack is still on his fourth head Except that we know _Road_ happens in August, the months are guesswork, but there are indications: June is the worst month for tornadoes; the worst storms at sea are usually around the equinoxes, and since after Dorothy was in Oz "several happy weeks" she saw the hands in the harvest fields in Kansas, the autumnal equinox is indicated; Eureka is still a "kitten" when she comes to Oz permanently, most likely at the time of _Road_, so _DotWiz_ can't happen much before _Road_; the bank would most likely foreclose on Uncle Henry right after the harvest, when it could see there was no prospect of getting paid for at least another year. I have a great deal of difficulty in believing that Dorothy is as young as 5 in _Wizard_. We know that she can read quite well because she can understand the instructions in the Golden Cap. While it's quite possible for a 5-year-old to read that well - I read the whole book, including those instructions, at that age - it seems highly unlikely that Dorothy's home environment was one that would have emphasized reading to that extent. I think it's almost certain that she'd had a year or two of school by the time she went to Oz. There isn't much evidence that Glinda feels it her duty to solve all the ills of Oz (much less anywhere else). She seems to step in only when all else fails, or when some unknown disaster seems to have happened to Ozma. The rest of the time she seems to step in only on whim, and then mostly via agents (like the Scarecrow in his eponymous book) rather than personally. She didn't, incidentally "send Ozma and Dorothy to stop" the Flathead-Skeezer war; in fact, she tried to talk Ozma into ignoring it. Ozma, however, is a very strong-willed young lady. >BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I prononounce it as Rookart. I pronounce it ROH-kwaht. (I'm not quite sure how your system of phonetic transcription works, so I don't know how you'd pronounce something you spell "Rookart." To me that would be "rook," as in the bird or chess piece, rhyming with "book," followed by "art," like the complement of science, and I wouldn't pronounce "Roquat" anything close to that.) Sean: I agree with all your assessments except your favorites, which to me include two B-grade Baums and a C- Thompson. I still think the first two Neills are even worse than _Hidden Valley_ and _Shaggy Man_, but you're right that they're livelier and have more interesting ideas. If Neill could have written as well as he thought up ideas his books could have been among the best. Tyler: >That, my friend, is the whole point, at least from a member of the radical >right :-) I believe that when the lead "gummint" figure is lazy and >do-nothing, the people prosper. :-) So your list of the greatest American presidents includes the two Harrisons, Tyler, Taylor, Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan, Hayes, Harding, and Coolidge? Most people don't remember the Panic of 1893 as a time when the people prospered much, but whatever turns you on... >I'd also like to meet Polychrome, but (ahem) in a rather different situation. >:-) Polychrome isn't a resident of Oz, either; meeting her would be a coincidence, not something that could easily be arranged. Dave: >Actually, I have reason to believe that Ruggedo escaped, changed his >identity, and is now teaching my Windows Programming class, where if you >dare to mention Java he turns you into an ornament. No, he was transformed into this nerdy-looking guy who founded a software company in Redmond... David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 18:03:59 -0500 Subject: Oz From: "David Frank Godwin" X-Priority: 3 Gehan wrote: >BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I prononounce it as Rookart. I've always pronounced it "Roe-kwaht," but now that I think about it, Baum may have intended "Rock-what," because of the pun with "rock," a natural enough name for a Nome. In answer to the poll this week, I prefer Dorothy to Alice anytime. Alice seems almost entirely passive, wandering around and letting things happen to her. She is merely a point of view, a confused little kid concerned more with proper rules of behavior than with the pragmatics of the situation at hand, and is not so much a real character. IMHO, Dorothy's character is much more developed than Alice's. As for the Oz girls, again it's Dorothy by a narrow margin. Trot's got a lot going for her, too, though, especially if you read _Sky Island_. And, BTW, I think you've got all these girls way too young. I'll go with the 10-11-12 ages that seemed to reach general agreement previously. Most of the time, they act pretty much like adults and are not overly helpless and dependent the way most younger kids seem to be. But again, I'm judging by 1990s America, which may not apply. The Size of Oz: Dave's FAQ has for some time now given the size of Oz at about 70 x 90 miles. ISTR that he was going to revise that as a result of some later discussion, but he never seems to have gotten around to it. What confuses me is that I've been looking back through the archives and have found that, back in 1996, Dave was advocating the idea that Oz is about the size of Colorado (104,091 square miles). I just wonder why the change, and why so radical. Someone else said at some point that it ought to be about twice the 70 x 90 size, and I tended to agree with that, but now I find myself willing to compromise on David Hulan's 90 x 120, about the size of Belgium. Sex in Oz: I assume that we are all mature adults, or reasonable facsimiles thereof, so it seems that it might be worthwhile to consider seriously the weighty question of whether sex as we know it exists in Oz at all. Robert Heinlein - oddly enough, given his adolescent obsessions about sex even in his 80s - asserted in _The Number of the Beast_ that there is not. I tend to agree with that, though perhaps not for the same reasons. He extended it to the point where, he said, babies are not even born in Oz. Of course we all know from the FF that this is not so. OTOH, Philip Jose Farmer seemed to want to turn Oz into a sexual playground (in _Barnstormer_). From the Oz-as-Literature POV, Oz was created for children and continues to this day to be focused on that audience. In Baum's day, sex education was awfully primitive, I think. This was the tail end of the Victorian era, after all, which in some respects lasted until the 1950s in this country. Most children were told that babies were brought to married couples by the stork. None of this "mommy's tummy" nonsense - it was the stork, I tell you. So my hypothesis is that babies are in fact born in Oz - brought by the stork from the Valley of Babies in Merryland just on the other side of the desert - but that sex as such just does not exist. Could this be because Oz is truly a children's world where sex is unknown? I think I would almost prefer it that way, because there's always a downside to things. If sex exists in Oz, then what about rape? Child molesters? (Oz would be a gold mine for one of these freaks.) Do we have seedy looking Nomes peddling porn photos in the darker corners of the Emerald City? And what about the book with the "funny pictures" in it that Dorothy looked at in WWiz? Even without aberrations, shouldn't women in a place like Oz be spared the consequences of original sin (according to Genesis); viz., menstruation and childbirth? Looks very much to me as if, although romance may be in, sex in Oz is out. Or is it? One might suppose that sex exists in Oz without the downside. There, you might say, it is always a pure and ideal expression of love in which "the heartaches and nightmares are left out." If that is so, however, why do so many people seem to avoid it? There are a lot of children in Oz who are more than 100 years old but have chosen to stop aging at a point that might suggest that they prefer to avoid the traumas of puberty and sexual relationships. Most everyone in every other part of the world seems to think it is worth it, but not in Oz. That hardly points to any idealized state of affairs with regard to sex. What's the opinion on this? Do lovers in Oz hold hands and kiss and that's it? Or is Oz suitable for mature adults only? - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 07 May 99 17:55:25 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things DIGEST ADDRESS: Michael Turniansky wrote: >Okay, first off, a request: Dave, if you are not going to forward any mail >from the daveh47 address to the digest... I do whenever I see a message in my regular mailbox that's clearly for the Digest, but sometimes I slip... > ... then will you kindly put the "ozdigest" address in the reply-to:field... Unfortunately, Eudora Light offers no way to do this for the Digest only. >... or at least not every now and again what the right >address is in the header or trailer of the digest? *That* I can do... "...AND KANSAS SHE SAYS IS THE NAME OF THE STAR.": For my unbirthday the other day my dad gave me a tape of the _Wizard of Oz_ soundtrack (the short version with the yellowish cover). Nice to listen to all the songs in the car, and to her the outtakes "The Jitterbug" and the Winkie/Emerald City reprise of "Ding-Dong the Witch is Dead". My only disappointment was the omission of my favorite part of the score, the music when Dorothy first emerges into Oz before Glinda arrives. "NO SEX PLEASE, WE'RE OZITES": David Godwin wrote: >What's the opinion on this? Do lovers in Oz hold hands and kiss and that's >it? Or is Oz suitable for mature adults only? Well, of course there are some Oz scholars who would begrudge Ozites even a kiss or held hands. One can make a googolplex arguments against sex in Oz: "Oz is for *kids*", "Oz is an obvious product of Victorian puritanism", etc., etc. On the other hand, there are many who might think sex with true love is something good not evil and therefore argue that Oz is meant to be ideal utopia, and that any place that's sexually repressed cannot be utopian. Or there might be some *real* heretics who would point out that Oz is a work of fantasy literature and is open to individual interpretation, and that the sweet, innocent Oz *can* be reconciled with a more sexy (but *not* pornographic!) side to the American Fairyland. So where do *I* stand...? Well, Jellia is at this moment whispering in my ear that if I state a definite, frank opinion she refuses to be held responsible for any death threats I may receive, so I'd better just refer everyone to _Red Dwarf in Oz_ on my web page in which I state my view very succinctly. And BTW, just a fair warning: If this debate turns vicious, I will be very quick in terminating it. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 8 - 11, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] WARNING: Some messages in today's Digest contain material that may be deemed unsuitable for pre-teen audiences. Reader discretion is advised. ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Ozzy Matters Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 20:08:30 PDT Gehan: >Actually,Scraps refused to be Queen in _Gnome King_ and not _Grampa_. >She isn't even mentioned there.... Actually, Dorothy mentions Scraps to Percy Vere. I don't think the Patchwork Girl actually appears on stage in _Grampa_, though. >Even though Trot says that she's 10 in -Giant Horse- I think she's >really >about 7. Maybe she preffered to stay 10 once she came to Oz but I >think >that >she's 7. In -Through the Looking Glass- Alice tells Humpty Dumpty >that >she's >7 years and six months and she has lots of scense for a year old. I don't really think it's fair to base theories such as these on how a character in an unrelated series acts. I have always that Alice was often more sensible (or more knowledgeable, at least) than your average seven-year-old. This might just mean that Baum can write a more convincing child than Carroll can. >While waiting for my:"If You could meet an Oz Character" Poll >Results,heres this weeks poll: >*.Who do you like more:Alice from -Alice in Wonderland- and -Through >the >Looking Glass- or Dorothy? I think I prefer Dorothy. As much as I like the Alice books, I'm not sure that Alice is all that strong a character in her own right. I also think I'd rather meet Dorothy than Alice, since Dorothy has a personality that is both stronger and more pleasant than Alice's. David Godwin: >I had always assumed (in the various books) that the effects of the >Waters of Oblivion wore off after a few years. That was the explanation that Thompson gave in _Kabumpo_. Baum never gave any indication that the effects were only temporary; I think that his explanation of Roquat/Ruggedo re-learning his wickedness involved the fact that he returned to the Nome Kingdom, not that the water wore off. David Hulan: >I couldn't remember whether that desert crossing [in _Purple >Prince_] >ended up in the Winkie >Country or the Gillikin; I know they got to the latter rather >quickly. True, but they had to travel through Double Up, which was located in the Winkie Country. >I've never heard "kalEEdah"; the variants I've heard have been >KALidah and >kaliDAH. (I say kalEYEdah myself, because if it was supposed to be >KALidah >I think Baum would have spelled it "kallidah," and "kaliDAH" sounds >to me >as if the plural ought to be "kalidot." :-)) In _Who's Who_, Snow suggests that "kalidah" may have been derived from "kaleidoscope," giving added weight to the kalEYEdah pronunciation (whcih is the one that I used even before reading _Who's Who_). Some thoughts on _Kabumpo_: I haven't actually gotten around to re-reading the book yet, but I can remember it pretty well, and one thing that always struck me about it was Ruggedo's height. I don't think Baum ever addressed this issue, but it was never hinted that the Nome was all that much shorter than the average human character. In _Kabumpo_, however, Ruggedo is only one foot tall (until he uses the Expanding Extract, of course). I'm assuming that Thompson was inspired by the gnomes of folklore, who often were no taller than that. Did Ruggedo shrink due to exposure to sunlight? Did Ozma shrink Ruggedo so that he couldn't cause as much trouble? Is this just a goof on the part of the Royal Historian? Notice that, when Ruggedo appears in _Gnome King_, Peter observes that the Nome is "no bigger than me" (not "several feet shorter than me"), and _Pirates_ gives his height as four feet, which seems to make sense; he's tall enough that people can communicate with him without bending down all that much, but short enough to be noticed as short. Speaking of Ruggedo, I think his cave is fairly sparsely furnished in _Kabumpo_, and the furniture that is there is small enough to comfortably accomodate the foot-high Nome and his rabbit steward. When Matiah visits the cavern in _Wishing Horse_, however, it contains a full-sized table and chairs (and possibly some other furniture; I can't quite remember). Is it possible that someone used the cave in between _Kabumpo_ and _Wishing Horse_? I suppose it could have even been Ruggedo himself, in the period between _Gnome King_ and _Pirates_. Nathan _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 23:36:53 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 Ruth Berman: <> That always bothered me as a kid. I settled it in my own mind by telling myself that it was a plan RPT meant to use originally as the solution to the problem, but that she changed her mind later and simply forgot to delete the line from her old version. That's fairly easy to do, and fairly difficult for a casual editor to catch. David Hulan: <> The word is punnier as "kalEYEdah," isn't it. Clumsy, klutzy kalidahs colliding.... <> Um, David, if you've gotten the '99 _Oziana_, I wish you'd tell me all about it. I'm still working on that issue. :) Yes, it's loaded with _Ozzy Digesters_. Talented group of people here! I've seen "Shakespeare in Love" only twice. I can't wait to see it again. I hardly ever pay to see a movie twice. I've never before been eager to get my hands on a video, but the moment that one comes out, I'll be right there to shell out my money for it. Tom Stoppard is marvelous. The cleverest Shakespeare thing I've ever seen was his "Fifteen Minute Hamlet." The man is a brilliant writer, and he knows and respects Shakespeare's work. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 12:16:28 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 Oz Polls: Well,I still prefer Alice to Dorothy. Coming to the poll relusts,I was the only one who prefered Alice and so Dorothy wins. Most of you also choose Dorothy out of Trot and Betsy. So she wins it all! This weeks poll: Which is better,the MGM Movie or RTOZ? IMHO:I think both are great! David Hulan: > But to me, Dorothy doesn't act like a >7-year-old in _Ozma_ or _DotWiz_, or an 8-year-old in _Road_ or _Emerald >City_ or later. I read to 4th graders, who are typically about 9, and none >of them are as mature as Dorothy is in any of the books except _Wizard_. >Also, Baum is very explicit that Ozma appears to be 14 or 15; while he says >Dorothy is "much younger," it's doubtful that he means as much younger as >8. Do you know any 14-year-olds who have kids in the the 7-9 range as best >friends? Even 10-12 is pushing it some, but at least it's thinkable. Well,in that case,Alice says that she's seven and a half in -Through the Looking Glass-. This means that she should have been atleast 7 or younger in -Alice in Wonderland-. She acted extremely well for a seven year old and so I dont see why Dorothy couldnt either. As for Dorothy's good English and her reading ability,I dont see why a seven year old cant read? After all,Aunt Em and Uncle Henry may have tought her and she also says that she HAS gone to school in -Ozma- and -DotWiz-. I dont beleive that Ozma is 8. I think she's about 16 even though Baum says that she's 14. >Wizard: 1899 (probably June) - Dorothy is 8 That cant be so since Baum began his Dorothy-Oz Tales in 1898. I dont agree that Dorothy was 5 during -Wizard- either. Someone said that Coo-ee-oh never intended to conquer Oz. Well,she tells Ozma: "I have one hundred and one citizens on my island and the two of you shall extend it to one hundred and three. And by ruling you Ozma, I shall also rule the thousands you say you rule!" Its pretty much like being Queen of all Oz... Tyler: Well,I usually take info. from the FF books and the Quasi-FF only and so my Ozzy Timeline may really fit in. I accept a few more Oz books outside the FF and the Quasi FF ,but those books have adventures which occured after Dorothy came to Oz. Trot: Well,since Trot had 2 adventures before -Scarecrow-,and we assume that she was 7 at the time of -Scarecrow-,she may have been about 6+ during her first adventure and that seems to fit in quite well..... Untill next time! --Gehan ============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== From: "Bob Collinge" Subject: Sex in Oz Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 08:27:13 -0400 David Godwin wrote: >I assume that we are all mature adults, or reasonable facsimiles thereof, so it seems that it might be worthwhile to consider seriously the weighty question of whether sex as we know it exists in Oz at all.< Personally, I don't think that we can assume that. I beleive that there are some teenagers on the digest, and other youngsters who may browse with their parents. FWIW, I have not read all of the FF, so do not know of different occasions when babies are mentioned. I would like to believe that a perfect place like Oz would indeed be a place where sex is accepted. Weekly Poll: I grew up on the movie, and love it, and did not read Baum's first book until about 7 years ago. I now think that the book is told much better. Bob C. ====================================================================== From: "Doug Torrance" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 09:37:40 PDT Hi. To start off with, this is the first time I've posted to the Ozzy Digest, but I've been a huge Oz fan ever since I discovered my dad's old Oz books in the corner of my room when I was in third grade. Now I'm a senior in high school, and I still enjoy reading them. Some people have been talking about whether or not the effects of the Truth Pond wear off over time or not. There was a really interesting Eric Shanower story in the 1990 Oziana called "The Final Fate of the Frogman" in which it states that the effects do not, in fact, wear off. Shaggy Man and Button-Bright get away with it thanks to Shaggy's experience dealing with others as well as the Love Magnet, and Button-Bright simply because he's a child and his unwelcome truths are considered cute. The Frogman, however, left EC and, now back on all fours like a normal frog, guards the Truth Pond to warn potential bathers. My theory on the pre-Ozma history of Oz: In _Dorothy and the Wizard_, Ozma talks about how all the previous rulers of Oz were named Oz or Ozma. Well, as far as actual rulers we know about, we have Pastoria and, non-canonically, Ozroar; no Ozzes or Ozmas. It can be assumed that all Ozian rulers named their firstborn sons Oz and their firstborn daughters Ozma. I think that Pastoria was the younger brother of a Prince Oz, perhaps also enchanted by Mombi, died (depending on when Oz became a fairyland), or just lost interest in ruling. When the Wizard came to Oz, the people saw the "O. Z." on his balloon, and they assumed he was Pastoria's older brother, Oz. This same explanation could be used to explain Ozroar's name. One more thing: no one seems to like Neill's books from what I've read. Despite continuity errors (which can easily be corrected using some imagination), I thought they were great. Especially, they were lots of fun. So many hilarious things are happening all the time. _Wonder City_ is one of my favorite books of the series. That's just my two cents. Doug Torrance _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 11:57:31 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-06-99 DAVID HULAN: >I got the 1999 _Oziana_ a few days ago and found it excellent. The lead >story, of course, is superb! :-) (For those of you who don't have it yet, >that's my story...) Is there anyone represented in it who isn't a regular >contributor to the Ozzy Digest? (Artists aside; maybe even those, though I >haven't checked for their identities.) (You mean 1998, of course....) All the writers are certainly Digest contributors. As for the artists, well, IIRC Neill hasn't posted anything here in a while. The cover artist and the artist who created the picture on page 30 are unknown to me. I agree that it was an impressive issue. SEX IN OZ: Well, this came out of left field. But, since it was brought up, hey, I'll play along. Here are some thoughts to add to the discussion's perspective.* --Of COURSE Nomes are child molesters. Especially the gay ones. (See The Psychozlogy Review, Vol. 69, Num. 2.) --Who's kinkier: Dorothy, Betsy, or Trot? --Who thinks Ozma freebases to heighten sexual ecstasy? (Remember, she's always wearing those poppies. It's not a big stretch.) --Has anyone ever seen nude pictures of Polychrome on the Internet? If so, please forward them to me. In the meantime, I'll check with those porn-peddling Nomes. --The Wizard has to be Glinda's paramour. A man and woman just can't spend all that time alone studying together without, well, you know... --The Yellow Knight: boxers or briefs? * The residents of the Quadling kingdom of Sarcasmia have contributed to this list. Atticus * * * "She reads at such a pace," she complained, "and when I asked her *where* she had learnt to read so quickly she replied, 'On the screens at Cinemas.'" Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 22:26:16 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte To: The Digest Subject: Re: THE OZZY DIGEST, OF MAY 7, l999 Heighty-Ho Digesters! >BTW:How do you guys pronounce Roquat? I pronounce it as Rookart. I pronounce it Ro-KAT. Sex in Oz: <> My humble opinion on it is while it may be okay for adults to have it, it is *not* mentioned in any of the Oz books for obvious reasons. I mean, most children in the Victorian era did not know about sex, and parents/other adults were in no hurry to mention it. It may happen "just for fun." Crucify me. David: <8. Do you know any 14-year-olds who have kids in the the 7-9 range as best friends? Even 10-12 is pushing it some, but at least it's thinkable.>> MOPPET is that Ozma is around 14, while Dorothy herself is around 11. Around the time of WWiz, she was about 8. And it's not unusual for her to be rather mature, especially if she was on a farm, where she had to help out, et cetera. So Betsy is 12, and Trot is 10. Sound good enough? -%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*-%*- And out of the three girls, I prefer Betsy. Somebody once said that _nobody_ can prefer Betsy since she's only a cheap copy of Dorothy, while I entirely disagree. She has a rather strong character, seemingly more mature than Dorothy and esp. Trot. When you read the books, you find that she uses no childish lisps and seems less afraid. Her life history will appear in my fanfic in progress, _The Silver Crown of Oz_, narrated by Ms. Bobbin herself. I'm sick of typing right now. Goodnight. -Lisa ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 22:40:26 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: KABUMPO and other weighty things Mike Turniansky wrote: <> Not until I read an ANNOTATED 20,000 LEAGUES did I fathom that the title measurement referred to the total distance the NAUTILUS traveled under the sea, not its distance below sea level. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> It's not really a Cockney accent, but an all-purpose American rural dialect. Jes' as Baum firs' uses baby-talk for Dor'thy in OZMA, so Aunt Em and Uncle Henry arrive by their accents late in the series. It's part of making them slightly more rounded characters, as well as more comic ones. Incidentally, I wonder if the way you've been rendering pronunciation of names reflects how you speak, especially the understated R of British English. We Americans might read your renderings of Langwidere and Roquat aloud quite differently from how you do. Mike Turniansky wrote: <> A Nonestic Ocean and a Deadly Desert? Yes, I know I might be underestimating the power of a determined cat. David Hulan wrote of using the Wizard's wishing pill to wish oneself a wizard: <> I think of the Wizard's pills as less powerful than the older magic of the Magic Belt, Magic Picture, Great Book of Records, emerald necklaces, and so on. Even in the last case, they were able to divert some of Chalk's spell over Oz, but not to ward it off or reverse it. David Godwin wrote: <> It seems clear that Thompson's boys have private parts. Speedy wraps a sheet around his waist when he jumps out of bed after sleeping nude in SPEEDY, and David checks himself in a mirror before dressing to see if anything's shrunk in ENCHANTED ISLAND. Furthermore, Thompson's books are most clear that heroes (not merely adjunct young people like Gloria and Pon) can fall in love, marry, and have children. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that there's more evidence for sex in Thompson's Oz than in Baum's. She started writing books in the Jazz Age, after all; he started in the Victorian Age. Some argue that if there were sex in Oz, the country should be a lot more populated than it is. This assumes that Ozian psychology and sociobiology is just like our own, which I don't think is definite. Sometimes we have sex to relieve tension, grab a little pleasure, prove something to ourselves--would such actions be so common in a more contented, less driven society? We have procreative sex to produce children because they're our species' only hope for maintaining itself, and individually our surest taste of immortality. But Ozians are immortal, so would they value children for those reasons? Sean Duffley wrote: <> I agree. Even OZMA's plot is resolved in a slightly cheating manner, with Roquat breaking supervillain rule #4: Never explain your entire scheme out loud to someone who already knows it. But MAGIC has three plots, all kept up in the air at once and all resolved fairly and adeptly. Those characters *deserve* a party at the end! Sean Duffley wrote: <> But on this I disagree. As I grew up with the series, I too came back to WIZARD late and seldom, and thought it slightly overrated. But on rereading it as an adult, I began to appreciate it on a more mythic level. Unlike Baum's other Oz books, we know this one started as an oral tale, and it retains some of that antique rhythm and power, as well as showing some of the faults of the genre when transfixed in prose. WIZARD's writing is indeed at a more basic level, with lots of repetitions or formulas, as when all three of Dorothy's companions speak in turn. The characters of the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman (and Lion, after drinking his courage) aren't as complex as they grow to be. All secondary characters introduced between Boq and Mr. Joker are types with labels instead of names--the "pretty girl," the "farmer," the "Wicked Witch," the "tall soldier." The plot is a linear quest, without the twists of LAND and MAGIC and other books. But when I make those criticisms, I feel like I'm condemning the ODYSSEY for saying "wine-dark sea" too often and building too much tension before Odysseus slays the suitors. WIZARD is as much myth as novel, and therefore doesn't measure up on a yardstick for novels anymore than PATCHWORK GIRL measures up on a yardstick for myths. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> It's *very* similar to WIZARD. Indeed, by the end of HIDDEN VALLEY, when Cosgrove has Jam and his animal buddies traveling with Dorothy and the Scarecrow *and* the Tin Woodman **and** the Cowardly Lion ***and*** the Hungry Tiger, it seems clear that she's trying hard to replicate what every child would want in an Oz book. "Wouldn't I love to travel to the Emerald City with all my favorites?" But if an author gives us exactly what we want, there's not much originality or much surprise. Dave Hardenbrook wrote as a fault in KABUMPO: <> Why do we need one? We already know he regained his memory after EMERALD CITY, and the mechanism there is not much clearer. We also know that a repeated dose of drugs can have diminishing effects on someone. David Hulan wrote: <> I agree with your criticism of Rith Metic, and especially Pompa's unfortunate remark about books (though it may not be uncharacteristic--he doesn't seem to be the bookworm Inga was). But I think Illumi Nation plays a crucial role in the plot of KABUMPO because that's where Pompa's hair is singed off. Thompson alludes to this accident many times in the following pages, though Neill undercuts the effect by illustrating it only once [169]. Pompadore's sudden whiffle cut is significant in two ways: 1) The physical deprivation and loss both he and Kabumpo go through make their quest into a heroic journey, not simply a diplomatic mission. Pompa is used to luxury, but the "once fastidious Prince of Pumperdink" [161] must endure suffering much like Peg Amy in her torn frock. Compare also the feast for Pompa at the start [23] to how famished and grateful he feels to discover the Soup Sea [163]. 2) In losing his "once luxuriant pompadour," Pompa Dore symbolically loses his identity. "No one will want to marry me now," he sighs [152-3]. Like a mythic hero, Pompa must come back from nothing, rebuild himself stronger than before. Yvonne (Hayden?) wrote: <> Delightful. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:26:39 EDT Subject: Oz David Godwin: ISTR that the change in Dave's perception of the size of Oz had to do with an analysis of Dorothy's journey in _Wizard_ combined with estimates of how far a young girl of 5 or 6 could walk in one day. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:49:07 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 >Remember that the Great Book of Records does not always give full details of >events that you and I would consider important. The intense magic of the >creatures involved may have rendered their effort opaque to the Book. At >best, it may have said the Nome King really "digs" his guests. :-) That particular locution is improbable, since "dig" in its current slang sense only dates to the Forties, and even then it was only popular in jazz circles. Mad Comics popularized it among the general public in the early Fifties. (And yeah, I know you were only kidding...) Gehan: It's good to know somebody likes _Hidden Valley_, since from what I've heard Rachel Cosgrove Payes was a very nice lady. But I don't like it. Granted, I didn't read it till I was thirtysomething, but I don't think that was the problem; I didn't read _Merry-Go-Round_ until I was thirtysomething, either, and didn't read _Handy Mandy_ tilll I was past 40, and I like both of those very much. (Others I didn't read till I was past thirty are _Captain Salt_, which I think is OK but isn't a favorite, and the first two Neills, both of which I think are awful.) >David Hulan and David Godwin: >One of you said that Ruggedo appears in -Magical Mimics-. But he doesnt! I didn't say anything on the subject one way or the other. Someone - who may have been David G. - said that Ruggedo was _mentioned_ in _Magical Mimics_; I don't recall anyone saying he actually appeared in that book, and of course he doesn't. >I dont think that the Ozites speak in different languages. Jellia says so in >-Land-. I don't think anyone suggested that more than one language is spoken within Oz; the question was whether different languages might be spoken in the other countries of Nonestica. (There does seem to have been an Old Ozish language that may survive in some backwaters, but we know from _Yellow Knight_ that some form of English has been spoken in Oz for at least 700 years.) >Each of you seem to prefer to m,eet your own favorite Oz Charfacters. Well of course! Why would we want to meet a character we found dull and uninteresting? Mike: Condolences on the loss of your computer. I highly recommend an Uninterruptible Power Supply, which keeps your computer working and gives you time for an orderly shutdown in case of a sudden power failure. Your name project sounds interesting; if you re-create it I'd be interested in your results. >Does this >mean that Jules Verne's (/Disney's) "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" could be >renamed "7 Earth Diameters Under the Sea"? Quelle dommage! If you'd read the book you'd know that "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" doesn't refer to a depth, but to the length of the voyage the narrator and his companions took in the _Nautilus_. >(BTW, what language do they speak/write in Slovenia? Macedonia >(FYROM)?) I believe that Slovenian is a language in its own right. I'm not sure whether there's a Slavic language called "Macedonian" or whether Macedonia is a polyglot state including speakers of Albanian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Maybe someone else knows. David G.: Interesting discussion on sex in Oz. I think it's an exaggeration to say that Farmer "seemed to want to turn Oz into a sexual playground" in _Barnstormer_, but he does acknowledge that sex exists in Oz and has his protagonist engage in some of it. My personal view is that sex does exist in Oz, but I rather agree with you that it probably doesn't result in conception - that babies, when they are desired (and we only know of one instance in the FF), are brought over from Merryland by storks. But it's understandable that there's no evidence for or against the existence of sexual activity in Oz in the FF. I don't think the fact that a lot of children in Oz have chosen to stop aging before puberty tells us much about whether those who have aged beyond that point have an interest in sex. I know when I was 10-12 years old most kids my age regarded the idea of romance in general, including sex to the extent we knew anything about it, as rather repugnant. And in Oz, where the other restrictions on children that make them want to get older don't seem to exist (they seem to be able to go off traveling independently at whim, for instance), it seems likely to me that a child who saw that people who got older started getting into all that "mushy" stuff would regard that as a significant reason to stop aging. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:30:16 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky X-Accept-Language: en Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-07-99 > >From the Oz-as-Literature POV, Oz was created for children and continues to > this day to be focused on that audience. In Baum's day, sex education was > awfully primitive, I think. This was the tail end of the Victorian era, > after all, which in some respects lasted until the 1950s in this country. > Most children were told that babies were brought to married couples by the > stork. None of this "mommy's tummy" nonsense - it was the stork, I tell you. A non-Ozzy digression: the other day I was watching Dumbo with my 4.5 year old. At the beginning scene with the delivery of the circus babies, I remarked to my son, "you know of course that the stork doesn't bring babies, right?" (he has a younger brother) "Right." "So where do they come from?" "From the Mommy's tummy, or the baby store" (the last *we* surely never taught him). But this got me to wondering: even if one _accepts_ the stork story, where do the STORKS get them? (the baby store? which in turn gets them from the baby warehouse, whither they are delivered by the baby wholesaler who gets them from.....? God?) Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:52:20 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Things David Hulan: You said that my wish about being the most powerful wizard in Oz wont work,because my magic cant be stronger than the person who invented the wishing pills. Well,a wish a wish,no matter what! Ozzy Witches: It would be nice to see a beautiful,yet wicked witch in Oz. All the Ozzy Witches are old ugly hags. The Wicked witch of the South could have easily been a beautiful witch,but Rachel Payes made her another old hag. We cant point out Queen Coo-ee-oh because she's not exactly beautiful....Are there any non FF books with wicked,beautiful witches? Illustrations: Some of the John R.Neill character drawings are not so nice. *.Dorothy: She could have been more chubbier with thicker hair. Shanower's Dorothy is iedial! *.Ozma: I hate her hair in Neill's drawings. Her face isnt so nice either. Dick Martin and Eric Shanower drew Ozma exeptionally well. *.Jinjur: She looks like the baker's-wife or something.I've always imagined her with longer hair and not so chubby. Her face could be more pretty too. *.Coo-ee-oh: She looks like a lazy lizard-woman. I know she's supposed to be thin and pale,but I didnt imagine her as thin as she is in the book,and her hair could have been longer. Baum says that her hair was black and it isnt in _Glinda_. Aunt Em and Miss.Gulch: Aunt Em tells Ms.Gulch:"For 23 years I've been dying to tell you what I've thought of you. And now.....well,being a christian woman I cant say it!". What was she so desparate to say? New Oz Story: I just had this great iedia for a new Oz story a few days ago. Tell me if its a good one. Here is the story plot: As you all know,Snow-White's wicked stepmother(the evil queen)died because she was so angry that her stepdaughter was prettier than she was. Her nerves burst in rage and she collapsed. If a certain fairy,witch,sorceress or wizard dies,he/she goes to the Land of the Dead before going to hell/heaven. If the fairy/wizard was wicked,he will suffer for a long period of time. Well,the wicked queen,who is also a powerful sorceress finds a loophole in the Land of the Dead and manages to escape and comes back to life. She returns to her castle(which is located in a fairy kingdom)and she consults her magic mirror once more. The mirror tells her that Snow-White died long ago and the fairest woman of all is a princess called Ozma,Queen of all Oz. The Queen is determined to kill Ozma and so she goes to Oz to destroy her and try and conquer Oz,since everyone in her own kingdom left ever since she "died". Anyone will think that its childs-play to capture her and enchant her or something but trouble is...she is immune to all magic powers and so magic powers wont affect her,not even the Forbidden Fountain. The only way to get rid of her,is to murder her without any magic of any sort but the Ozites are too kind to do such a thing....but there are other enemies who will be willing to. Please tell me what you think of my iedia is on the coming Digest...Does it sound stupidor farfetched? --Gehan ============================================================= "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 99 09:51:09 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: fathoming leagues in Oz Bea Premack: I don't know what's currently in print in the way of Oz translations, but ozmama@aol.com and hermbieber@aol.com (Robin Olderman and Herman Bieber) in their bookdealing doings might be able to supply you with some new or, for that matter, some old. Some of the Japanese and Italian translations have had strikingly attractive illos. Michael Turniansky: I don't think the stories about pets finding their owners (at least, not the well documented examples) involve finding the owners in a new location. Usually, the story is about a pet finding its way home from far away. How Eureka got back to Oz is doomed to be a mystery in terms of getting an answer from inside the R&L Oz books, but not in terms of holding opinions about probable answers. David Hulan's answer, that Eureka snuck along in "Road" is one plausible solution. Another possibility might be that Dorothy visited Ozma (signaling to come visit as at end of "Dorothy and the Wizard") in between the two books, and Eureka came along with her (either by stealth, or by managing to communicate to Dorothy that she wanted to be able to talk again). Or -- getting kind of implausible, but still possible -- if she found her own way as far as the Deadly Desert (maybe by finding a little residual magic in a pocket around the Butterfield crossing?), she might have managed to contact an Animal Fairy (King of the Fairy Beavers from "John Dough," maybe, or someone in Burzee Forest?) who could help her to Oz. David Hulan and Michael Turniansky: Looks as if Verne must have meant "fathoms" ("brasses") rather than "leagues" ("lieues"). I wonder if the popularity of his "20,000 Lieues" might have led to a general confusion over just what kind of length a "league" implied. (RPT can't very well have been thinking of "leagues" as being the same as "fathoms" -- 600 feet between Sapphire City and Keretaria is much too short. But she might have been thinking of a league as something vaguely intermediate.) David Godwin: I don't think it's quite correct to say that most people think growing up is worth the pains -- most people don't have a choice in the matter. When a choice is assumed for a story, it's fairly common to suppose that a substantial number might want to avoid growing up (besides Oz, Barrie's "Neverland," and the "Littles" in George MacDonald's "Lilith"). RPT wrote an interesting story, "The Princess of Cozytown" (the title story in her early collection of her short work, and I reprinted the story as a "Dunkitown" pamphlet recently), in which the abandoned toys object to losing their princess to adult life. // Sex in Oz -- well, if having babies is not definite evidence of sexual relations, then there can't very well be much evidence in the books, but that isn't in itself evidence of whether there could be sex going on where the kids don't get to see it. The Nome King's desire to have Polychrome as his wife or sister or any relation ("Tik-Tok") might indicate that Nomes at least don't quite know what sex is. But both the gallant Ree-alla-bad ("Ojo") and the brutish Mogodore ("Jack Pumpkinhead") seem too "grown-up" to be content with a sexless marriage. The question of whether there could be sexual crimes in Oz and, if so, what to do about them is a subset of the question of whether there could be crimes at all and what to do about them. There are, after all, procedures already available in Oz for punishing crimes and trying to prevent more of the same (going to Tollydiggle's gentle jail, drinking the waters of oblivion, getting exiled, getting exploded or otherwise destroyed). Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 99 14:11:23 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things NEW BAUM BIO?: Has anyone seen a book called _Oz and Beyond: The Fantasy World of L. Frank Baum_ by Michael O. Riley? I saw it at Border's. but couldn't browse through it because it was wrapped up in "celephant". :) Another reason to like Border's: They carry Dick Martin's _Cut and Assemble the Emerald City_! "THE ORKS AND THE JITTERBUGS": Bob C. wrote: >Personally, I don't think that we can assume that. I beleive that there >are some teenagers on the digest, and other youngsters who may browse with >their parents. Point taken, hence my "warning" at the start of today's Digest (and any others in which this "sex" debate continues...) This may be the sort of angle to the World of Oz that warrants a separate discussion group... :) RUGGEDO: J.L. Bell wrote: ><> >Why do we need one? We already know he regained his memory after EMERALD >CITY, and the mechanism there is not much clearer. Didn't he re-learn evil ways from other Nomes, which is why the second time around Ozma thought it would be safer to keep him in the Emerald City? GEHAN: >*.Dorothy: She could have been more chubbier with thicker hair. Shanower's >Dorothy is [ideal]! I agree -- Shorts and all! >*.Ozma: I hate her hair in Neill's drawings. Her face isnt so nice either. >Dick Martin and Eric Shanower drew Ozma exeptionally well. I like some of Neill's Ozma portraits, esp. in _Tin W._ and _Kabumpo_, but his "action shots" of Ozma are not too good. Also, I don't like the way Ozma looks arrogant in many of Neill's pics. I like Dick Martin's Ozma best. >*.Coo-ee-oh: She looks like a lazy lizard-woman. I know she's supposed to be >thin and pale,but I didnt imagine her as thin as she is in the book,and her >hair could have been longer. Baum says that her hair was black and it isnt >in _Glinda_. It *is* black but Neill hides most of it under that outlandish helmet whatsis. >Aunt Em tells Ms.Gulch:"For 23 years I've been dying to tell you what I've >thought of you. And now.....well,being a christian woman I cant say it!". >What was she so desparate to say? "You hippikaloric old woman!"??? :) >New Oz Story: [outline omitted] Well, my opinion is that if Perry Mason can come to Oz*, anyone can! :) MGM EC: Does anyone besides me dislike the MGM depiction of the Emerald City? Those tall, rodlike things are presumably skyscrapers and I just can't believe Oz would have any. -- Dave * In _The Case of the Framed Fairy of Oz_ by Gil S. Joel, published by Chris Dulabone ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 12 - 16, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] WARNING: Some messages in today's Digest contain material that may be deemed unsuitable for persons who think that the Stork brought them. Reader discretion is advised. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:51:40 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: oz digest Nathan DeHoff: Ruggedo is about one foot tall in "Kabumpo"? I think your memory is misleading you. There isn't any direct statement to that effect. Perhaps you got that impression from his being able to sit in a "doll's rocker" -- but dolls come in many sizes. It can't even be assumed that the doll-size involved would be the same as Peg's (Peg and Wag seem to be about that same size, which might make her 1-2 feet tall pre-expansion), because Peg was Trot's doll, and the rocker was Betsy Bobbin's. A rocker for a 3-foot doll might well accommodate a 4-foot Nome. Atticus Gannaway: Enjoyed the Sarcasmian comments. J.L. Bell & David Hulan: Thanks for the reminder that Verne's 20,000 Leagues were mostly in directions other than straight down. (Maybe it's time I should re-read it -- and maybe get around to reading the sequel, too.) David Hulan: I looked in an Almanack, and found both Slovenian and Macedonian mentioned as Slavic languages. Most people in Macedonia speak Macedonian, although there are also some speakers of Albanian, etc. (The Almanack also said that the people in Bosnia-Herzgovina speak Serbo-Croatian, which I suppose means that both the Serbian dialect and alphabet and the Croatian dialect and alphabet are in use there. It didn't say what they speak in Montenegro, but I'd guess some mixture of Serbo-Croatian and the rest.) // Interesting discussion of mix of motives in aging/not-aging. Dave Hardenbrook: Michael O. Riley's "Oz and Beyond" isn't a biography of Baum, but a nice discussion of how Baum's exploration of his magic kingdoms developed over time. Yes, it's well worth getting. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:03:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Ozzy Digest Doug: > My theory on the pre-Ozma history of Oz: In _Dorothy and the >Wizard_, > Ozma talks about how all the previous rulers of Oz were named Oz or > >Ozma. Well, as far as actual rulers we know about, we have Pastoria >and, non-canonically, Ozroar; no Ozzes or Ozmas. It can be assumed > >that all Ozian rulers named their firstborn sons Oz and their >firstborn >daughters Ozma. I think that Pastoria was the younger >brother of a Prince >Oz, >perhaps > also enchanted by Mombi, died (depending on when Oz became a > >fairyland), or just lost interest in ruling. When the Wizard came to >Oz, the >people saw the "O. Z." on his balloon, and they assumed he was >Pastoria's >older brother, Oz. This same explanation could be used to >explain >Ozroar's >name. Perhaps "Oz" and "Ozma" were not the only names for the rulers. Rulers often tend to have many names, and Pastoria's full name, for instance, could have included both "Pastoria" and "Oz." Incidentally, in _Wonder City_, Professor Wogglebug refers to Ozma as "Ozma the Great." Since "oz" means "great and good," isn't this title a bit redundant? Atticus: > --The Yellow Knight: boxers or briefs? I would suppose that he stil uses whatever kind of undergarments were worn in the thirteenth century, unless Corumbia has modernized since the disenchantment (perhaps with some help from Jenny Jump). Actually, this question isn't quite as far from the books as your others, since Randy does pack a change of underwear before making his journey in _Silver Princess_. > * The residents of the Quadling kingdom of Sarcasmia have >contributed >to this list. Isn't that where theSar Chasm, one of the most famous gorges in Oz, is located? J. L. Bell: > Some argue that if there were sex in Oz, the country should be >a lot > more populated than it is. Well, in _Captain Salt_, the title character did suggest that Oz was becoming overcrowded. I'm not sure this is really all that likely, though, considering all of the uninhabited space through which the characters travel in nearly every Oz book. David Hulan: > That particular locution is improbable, since "dig" in its >current >slang sense only dates to the Forties, and even then it was only > >popular in jazz circles. Mad Comics popularized it among the general >public in >the early Fifties. (And yeah, I know you were only >kidding...) Well, maybe Oz is ahead of the rest of the world in terms of slang expressions. Speaking of slang, does anyone else find the Scarecrow's shout of "Yo, Wiz!" (in _Ozoplaning_) to be a bit out of character? Where would he have picked up that kind of speech? On the mean back streets of the Emerald City? > (There does seem to have been an Old Ozish language that may survive >in some backwaters, but we know from >_Yellow Knight_ that some form of >English has been spoken in Oz for at >least 700 years.) Unless the speech of the disenchanted Corumbians and Corabians was translated by the land's magic. Gehan: > You said that my wish about being the most powerful wizard in Oz >wont > work,because my magic cant be stronger than the person who >invented the > wishing pills. Well,a wish a wish,no matter what! Yes, a wish is a wish, but that doesn't mean the wishing pills will grant it. Dave Hardenbrook: > Does anyone besides me dislike the MGM depiction of the Emerald >City? > Those tall, rodlike things are presumably skyscrapers and I just >can't > believe Oz would have any. I never really thought about it before, but you have a good point. I'm not sure if it was ever explicitly stated in the books, but I'm pretty sure the palace is the tallest building in the city. As far as I can recall, the only tower mentioned in the books that is in the city but not part of the castle is the ivory tower at the top of the public library. Where does all of the ivory in Oz come from, anyway? I doubt there are all that many poachers in the country (especially since the elephants cannot die), and I don't think that a live elephant would want its tusks used for decorative purposes. I suppose there is probably some magical source for the material, which does seem to be fairly common in Oz. Nathan _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:37:13 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Ozzy Digest, 02-11-99]] X-Accept-Language: en (that explains why my mail kept bouncing!) Michael Turniansky wrote: > I found a few more old posts that never made it to the digest: > > Michael Turniansky wrote: > > [2/11] > > > D. Godwin: > > > > > > > > BTW, the introduction of a knight in armor and of beasts common to Asia and > > > the Middle East would seem to me to argue in favor of the hypothesis that > > > RPT tried to "Europeanize," or at least de-Americanize, LFB's vision of Oz, > > > but it seems doubtful that everyone will ever agree on that one. > > > > > > > Seems to me that lions, Cowardly or otherwise, and tigers, hungry or > > otherwise, ain't exactly common fare in American forests..... > > > > Book of Previous Focus: > > > > My son and I just finished reading Patchwork Girl, which he took out of his > > school library (Del Rey edition. And they have others, too! Yay, for > > progressive Orthodox Jewish day schools! :-) It's been a while since I read it > > (maybe 20 years?). The following points popped up at me: > > > > Dorothy uses the expression "mad as hops". Can I assume this is a precursor > > of "hopping mad"? And what is so mad about hops anyway (unless perhaps when they > > ferment?) > > > > For you "how big is Oz" folks, I note that on the YBR, it takes a day's > > journey to get from the Munchkin border of the green country to Emerald City > > proper. > > > > When the phonograph first comes to life, it refers to Dr. Pipt by name, > > without having heard it. This suggests that inanimate objects have some form of > > life already, or at least can hear things? > > > > I did not find the "Coal Black Lulu" song offensive in any but aesthetic > > ways. What was the BOW version? > > > > Can Bungle say, "you can see 'em work" just ONE more time?!?! I sure can't > > get enough it. Apparently, that's all her brains are used for, is repeating that > > single phrase.... > > > > > > [3/26] > > > > > Dave Godwin: > > > > > > > > I don't recall any statement like that, but in _Ozma_, Dorothy has a ham > > > sandwich from a lunchbox that is growing on a tree. Not only it is not > > > vegetarian, it isn't even kosher! > > > > Sure they are, if they grow on trees. Just like the vegetarian near-meats I > > wolf down all the time (well, except during Passover). > > > > My son took out ROAD from the school library. Interesting that Dorothy avers > > that a "funnygraf" wouldn't exist ina fairyland (when the meet the Musicker), but > > lo and behold, the Crooked Magician has one in Patchwork Girl! > > --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky, wondering where all his > > outgoing digest mail has wound up???? > > > > > > ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:00:17 -0700 From: "Peter E. Hanff" Subject: Re: Seems like old times... Dear Ozzy Digesters: Just a last minute reminder that any of you who are planning to attend the 1999 Winkie Convention at Asilomar Conference Grounds should let me know right away. I am obliged by contract to release rooms not reserved at 90 days, 60 days, and 30 days, or I pay for those not used. I had to release a number of rooms this past Saturday, but would happily add a few back to our block if I know you are committed to attending. Hope to see many of you in July! Best, Peter Hanff Winkie Convention Registrar ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:20:39 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: KABUMPO OF OZ never forgets Ruth Berman wrote about KABUMPO: <> At first I agreed with Robin Olderman that this could only be a path which Thompson laid out for herself, but decided not to take. But then I noticed some curious things around two other full-page portraits of our Ozzy favorites: * page 199 shows Jack Pumpkinhead, directly across from one paragraph about him. * page 209 shows Nick Chopper, two pages after a sentence about him. Why is it odd for these gents to be pictured and described? KABUMPO is an Oz book, after all. I'm suspicious because those sentences are, I believe, the *only* mentions of the Wizard, Jack, and Nick in the entire castle journey. The Wizard doesn't turn out to affect the action, as Ruth noted. Jack doesn't worry about losing his head, even though the Scarecrow does [191]. The Tin Woodman does practically nothing, even as Thompson makes a big deal of Sir Hokus and Tik-Tok clanging together [189]. It's very easy to imagine Reilly & Lee telling Thompson, "It's all very well that you've written these scenes with Scraps, the Scarecrow, Tik-Tok, and that knight of yours, but the children are going to miss their other favorites. We asked Johnny Neill to draw big pictures of them, and would you insert a few words about each?" The actions the Wizard, Jack, and the tin man take are quite in character for them, but they don't advance the plot or action--so much so, in fact, that they make a reader as sharp as Ruth wonder why not. Additional remarks on the KABUMPO art: * This is the only canonical Oz book with *two* characters on its spine. * The frontispiece is said to show page 18, but actually depicts page 48. * R&L has abandoned the two-page chapter openers it used in GLINDA and ROYAL BOOK. The design is back to what seems to have the previous standard, with text drawings in three set sizes: full page, chapter opener, and about half a page horizontally. That would have made laying out the text easier. * I quite like the color plates opposite pages 105 (Omby Amby on the Sawhorse) and 249 (Ruggedo sleep-walking). * On page 243, Neill makes a common mistake among right-handed artists by drawing the Scarecrow with two left hands. * The plate opposite page 288 gives Neill yet another chance to draw a pretty girl's face inside a blossom, just as in Baum's books. Mike Turniansky wrote: <> When DUMBO was first released in 1941, my grandmother dutifully took my father, then aged five, to see it. She was a nurse, and didn't believe in feeding her son myths about storks or cabbage leaves. On screen, the storks started flying, dropping bundles of baby into various cages. Little Jerry Bell turned to the boy sitting next to him, who had been brought by *his* mother, and remarked, "That's not how babies come." ZZZIP, the other child was gone. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> Being a Christian man, would you be able to hear it? Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> For reviews of this book, see the Nov 1997 and Mar 1998 Ozzy Digests. Gehan Cooray wrote: <> But is it a good wish, or a bad wish? J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:35:40 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozzy Matters John Bell: Well,ofcourse my word pronounciation and spellings are different to Americans. Words like plant,class,cant and aunty are pronounced differently in both SriLanka and America.For instance,colour is color in the states and something like favourite is spelled as favorite. I dont know which should be correct though Sex in Oz: Before talking about this,we need to know wheather there are any small under 10 children on the Digest. Are there any teens on the Digest or am I the only one? My POV on Kabumpo in Oz: I think this book should have been called the Elegant Elephant of Oz or Prince Poma of Oz. The name Kabumpo doesnt sound at all attractive. I wondered what on earth the story was about before reading the synopsis. The story is real fun and very-well written. Only problem is,Ruggedo's character could have been better ever since he grew into a giant. He was as silent as a graveyard ever since he grew. I expected him to cause more havoc being a giant. He was real fun,but only before growing. Wag the Rabbit and Peg Amy are two of the best FF characters,and so are Prince Pompa and Kabumpo. We never see any elephants in Baum's Oz and so we can also see Thompson's wide imagination. I'm sure she got the iedia of Peg Amy from Pinnochio,but the iedia is still terrific. The story plot is very good too. Imagine a prince going in search for a princess,especially to save his own kingdom from dissapearance. The story also takes a grand twist when their plans are thwarted by Ruggedo who carries away Ozma,the supposed proper princess on his head,along with her castle. I also think that Glegg could have been a more frequant villain in the story,with atleast two or three chapters with him(atleast plotting by himself).My MOPPET on the Wizard's plan is that he had soughted out an ingenius plan to save Ozma and the Emerald City,but by the time he had everything set,Ozma and the City were already saved. The Soup Sea,The Illumni Nation,The Currious Cottabus and (I forget the name of the other kingdom which had something to do with numbers)were very imaginative too and overall,I think the book is one of the best out of the FF and it shows Ruth Plumly Thompson at the peak of her powers too.... Tyler: Have you changed your email address? You seem to no longer use tyler@apprentice.com and tnj@compuserve.com Lisa: Is _Silver Crown of Oz_ a long story to fill a whole book or just a short fanfic story? By the way,how are you getting along with _Currious Wogglebug of Oz_. I'm waiting to read the second chapter. The first chapter was great! Oz Poll: Hey! I didnt receive any responses for my last poll:"Which version of Wizard of Oz is better the movie or the book? Did you guys miss it? There was only one vote..... C'ya later! --Gehan ============================================================================ ==== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:13:08 -0400 From: Jill Moore Subject: Oz Sale of the Century X-Accept-Language: en Hi Dave & All. Due to serious financial difficulty, I am selling off my collection of Wizard of Oz memorabilia and collectibles, which spans 25 years. I'm trying to make life a little easier for all of us and take the guess work out of all of this mess I've created!! I have a few of my better collectible items listed with ebay (sellers search for jillsoff2oz) and have created a webpage with a good portion of my items on it. Over the next few weeks I will be adding to it very regularly, but there are 16 pages of descriptions, prices, and picture links at the moment that you can view. Go to http://www.ameritech.net/users/jdobrock/off2ozsale.htm and if you find anything you're interested in, just let me know. Thanks again. Your friend, Jill PS: You know that giving up my Oz collection is like giving up a piece of my heart and soul, but drastic situations sadly call for drastic measures. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:08:36 -0500 From: David Frank Godwin Subject: Oz etc. X-Priority: 3 [208.16.89.39] claimed to be [208.16.89.39] Dave: Sorry to hear about Mindspring's abruptness. I admit I was worried. A similar thing happened to my mother with regard to supplementary health insurance. She is 95, and she forgets things. She made out a check to Blue Cross for a quarterly payment and then forgot to mail it. The next thing she knew, she had been canceled - after something like 30 years of regular payments into the Blue Cross coffers. No phone calls or anything. So she applied to Prudential through AARP. Blue Cross's attitude seemed to be: "You missed a payment. We don't need you. Get lost." In a way, this Mindspring episode could be a good thing. It's an ill wind, etc. I wrote a posting for the Digest and somehow contrived to lose it after it failed to go through. So I now have to rewrite it and in doing so produce a more coherent document (I hope). Gehan's poll: I hate to admit it, but the MGM film is way better than RTOz. Okay, I know that the Garland film does not portray the "real Oz" and that people in Oz or anywhere else do not ordinarily sing and dance their way through life the way they did in MGM musicals. I also realize that RTOz tried to be much more faithful to the books. You could say the MGM film was ruined by making it all a dream, but what really ruined RTOz for me was the complete transformation of the Nome King from a comic villain into an obnoxious, condescending, pipe-smoking shrink. Okay. so MGM combined Glinda and the GWN; well, RTOz combined Mombi and Langwidere, which is worse. If you can forget about the book and look at the film as a film in its own right, the MGM movie is vastly entertaining as well as quite an artistic achievement. Even now, I am picking up on new things in the movie. For example, I didn't notice until quite recently that the circular, spiral motion of the cyclone is echoed in the circular, spiral beginning of the Yellow Brick Road. I have to regard RTOz as a magnificent try, but ultimately a failure at what it tried to do. We can probably thank the Garland movie, begrudgingly or otherwise, for the current popularity of Oz. Gehan wrote: >>David Hulan and David Godwin: >>One of you said that Ruggedo appears in -Magical Mimics-. But he doesnt! And David Hulan replied that it wasn't him, but it might have been me. Nope. I think it was Ruth Berman. J. L. Bell: Very perceptive comments about producing offspring in Oz. David Hulan wrote: >And in Oz, where the >other restrictions on children that make them want to get older don't seem >to exist (they seem to be able to go off traveling independently at whim, >for instance), it seems likely to me that a child who saw that people who >got older started getting into all that "mushy" stuff would regard that as >a significant reason to stop aging. Good comment. I also think we ought to consider the fact that most of the Oz children from the USA were raised in late Victorian times, so some of that repressive attitude may have lodged in their subconscious minds, at least. For example, the notion that the human body is a thing of shame to be kept well draped at all times, and sex, insofar as it's acknowledged at all, is completely beyond the pale. There were some couples at this period who prided themselves on having a sexless marriage, thinking it somehow made them more spiritually advanced. The immigrant children must have carried quite a bit of mental baggage with them when they first came to Oz, and doubtless had many ideas and opinions that they found untenable when faced with the reality of Oz. For one minor example, Cap'n Bill was forced to revise his superstituous prejudice against mermaids as a result of his adventures in _The Sea Fairies_. I suppose it is possible, but it seems unlikely that a girl from early-20th-century Oklahoma would be entirely free from a certain amount of prejudice against Native Americans in particular and blacks in general. An intelligent and perceptive young lady such as Betsy would soon have seen the folly of these views after arriving in Oz and not being constantly brainwashed by people in her environment. With sex - or "mush" - it would take longer because apparently the subject is not discussed with children in Oz any more than it used to be elsewhere. There's really no need for a "birds and bees" lecture to prepare a child who doesn't intend to grow up anyway. Hence residual Victorian attitudes might also influence an American child's decision to stop aging, even if not consciously. Irony: It strikes me as heavily ironic that Jack Snow did not use any of RPT's characters out of choice, whereas people writing now are mostly _prohibited_ from doing so by the copyright laws! We are all Jack Snow under the law. Boy heroes: The boy hero of the forties and fifties, Rick Brant, has been mentioned here before. The adventures were written by someone calling himself "John Blaine." I suppose it's not impossible that that was his real name. But it is interesting to me that Rick lived with his famous scientist father on Sprindrift Island on the coast of New Jersey, whereas Speedy lived with his famous scientist uncle on Long Island on the coast of New York. Was this a common theme in the boys' fiction of the time, or could Blaine have been influenced by Thompson? Gehan wrote: >Ozzy Witches: >It would be nice to see a beautiful,yet wicked witch in Oz. As I'm sure you're aware, Glinda states as a fact of life in the MGM movie that wicked witches are ugly and good witches are beautiful. Folklore (e.g., the Arthurian legends) doesn't necessarily agree, however. Dave wrote: >So where do *I* stand...? Well, Jellia is at this moment whispering in >my ear that if I state a definite, frank opinion she refuses to be held >responsible for any death threats I may receive, so I'd better just refer >everyone to _Red Dwarf in Oz_ on my web page in which I state my view very >succinctly. You know the Digesters better than I do, but I cannot imagine that your views as expressed in RDOz would provoke any death threats, flaming, or excessive indignation. Dinosaurs in Oz are an entirely different matter, however! ;) >NEW BAUM BIO?: >Has anyone seen a book called _Oz and Beyond: The Fantasy World of >L. Frank Baum_ by Michael O. Riley? I saw it at Border's. but couldn't >browse through it because it was wrapped up in "celephant". :) It is excellent. Buy it at once. It is more literary criticism than biography, but it describes most of LFB's children's fiction and explains how he gradually came to tie it all together with Oz. There are plot synopses of most of these books, as well as the Baum Oz books, and he describes the way Oz evolved in Baum's imagination. Maybe someone more expert than I could find holes in it, but I couldn't. >MGM EC: >Does anyone besides me dislike the MGM depiction of the Emerald City? >Those tall, rodlike things are presumably skyscrapers and I just can't >believe Oz would have any. I had supposed that they were towers of the royal palace(s) rather than office buildings. Nevertheless, they're a little too art deco for my taste. I think RTOz had the right idea with the Chicago World's Fair (which we know inspired LFB), although we didn't get to see much of it after its restoration. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:19:26 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-99 Nathan: I hadn't noticed that Thompson gave Ruggedo's height as only one foot in _Kabumpo_. One thing about his size that is incongruous in the illustrations, though, is the picture at the heading of Chapter 18, which shows Ruggedo's foot, heel to toe, being about the same length as Wag's height. Yet his head is big enough that the entire royal palace of Oz sits on it. Since most people's feet are longer heel to toe than the length of their skull front to back, this would imply a Very Small royal palace... Actually, of course, Neill just got the scale of the foot wrong in that drawing. Interesting speculation that some person or persons unknown might have lived in Rug's cave between _Kabumpo_ and _Wishing Horse_. Sounds like the basis for a story... Robin: >Um, David, if you've gotten the '99 _Oziana_, I wish you'd tell me all >about it. I'm still working on that issue. :) Yes, it's loaded with _Ozzy >Digesters_. Talented group of people here! Oops. I meant the 1998, of course - but since it arrived in 1999, it's sorta the 1999 Oziana even if the date on it is 1998... Gehan: Personally, I think RTOz has more of the spirit of the books than the MGM movie does, but it's less successful as a stand-alone movie. People who know nothing else about Oz are still charmed by the MGM movie; it seems to me that only fans of the Oz books really like RTOz. (Not strictly true, since my wife loved RTOz and the only Oz book she likes is _Glass Cat_. :-) But that movie seems to be much better liked by fans of the Oz books than by the general public, whereas if anything the reverse is true of the MGM movie.) >Well,in that case,Alice says that she's seven and a half in -Through the >Looking Glass-. This means that she should have been atleast 7 or younger in >-Alice in Wonderland-. She acted extremely well for a seven year old and so >I dont see why Dorothy couldnt either. I have no quarrel with believing Dorothy was 7 in _Wizard_, though I'd prefer 8. Your original argument was that she was only 5, and I was taking issue with that. I'm sure that by the time Dorothy was 7 she could read well, since she was a bright kid, but I doubt if Uncle Henry or Aunt Em had the time, even if they had the inclination, to teach her to read before she started school. >I dont agree >that Dorothy was 5 during -Wizard- either. I quote you from the Digest of 5/6: >Here's my new Dorothy's aging theory: >1st Year(1897):The Year in which -Wizard- occured. Dorothy is 5. >2nd year(1898):The Year in which -Land- took place. Dorothy is 6 >3rd year(1899):The Year in which -Ozma- and -DotWiz- took place. Dorothy is 7 >4th Year(1900):The Year in which -Emerald City- occured. Dorothy is 8 Does this mean you've changed your mind since then? As to what year _Wizard_ took place, I'm flexible, as long as it isn't _too_ early. We know that _Scarecrow_ happens no more than about 5 years after _Road_ because of Button-Bright's age, and that Baum was communicating with Oz by wireless some time before that, so we can put a _terminus a quo_ of around 1892 or so for _Wizard_. Shift all my dates back by a year or two if you like. >Someone said that Coo-ee-oh never intended to conquer Oz. Well,she tells Ozma: >"I have one hundred and one citizens on my island and the two of you shall >extend it to one hundred and three. And by ruling you Ozma, I shall also >rule the thousands you say you rule!" >Its pretty much like being Queen of all Oz... But she wasn't doing, or planning to do, anything active to exercise rulership over Oz, so I don't think that counts as "conquering" Oz. Kidnapping the ruler and conquering the country are very different things. Bob C.: >I beleive that there >are some teenagers on the digest, and other youngsters who may browse with >their parents. I'm sure there are teenagers, but I don't think a highly abstract discussion of whether or not sex exists in Oz is something that could be harmful to teenagers. Or for that matter to pre-teens, though I can believe that they might find it uninteresting. >FWIW, I have not read all of the FF, so do not know of different occasions >when babies are mentioned. I would like to believe that a perfect place >like Oz would indeed be a place where sex is accepted. ****Slight spoilers for_Kabumpo_, _Purple Prince_ and _Ojo_****** To the best of my recollection there are only two references to babies being born during the time of the FF - in _Purple Prince_ Princess Pajonia has been born to Pompadore and Peg Amy after their marriage at the end of _Kabumpo_, and in _Ojo_ there's a reference to Ojo's birth after Ozma ascended the throne (which would tend to imply that, _pace_ Baum's statement in _Tin Woodman_, babies do not remain babies forever). I may be forgetting some other reference, though - but there aren't many, and I think they're all in Thompson. ************End spoilers*********************** Doug: Welcome to the digest, and presumably you're one of the teenagers referenced in the last comment. >Some people have been talking about whether or not the effects of the Truth >Pond wear off over time or not. There was a really interesting Eric >Shanower story in the 1990 Oziana called "The Final Fate of the Frogman" in >which it states that the effects do not, in fact, wear off. Shaggy Man and >Button-Bright get away with it thanks to Shaggy's experience dealing with >others as well as the Love Magnet, and Button-Bright simply because he's a >child and his unwelcome truths are considered cute. The Frogman, however, >left EC and, now back on all fours like a normal frog, guards the Truth Pond >to warn potential bathers. You may not have read _Sky Island_, since it's strictly speaking not an Oz book. But Button-Bright definitely tells lies in it, after he'd bathed in the Truth Pond, so apparently its effects do wear off. Shanower is an excellent writer, but his stories often contradict things that the FF says about Oz. >My theory on the pre-Ozma history of Oz: In _Dorothy and the Wizard_, Ozma >talks about how all the previous rulers of Oz were named Oz or Ozma. Well, >as far as actual rulers we know about, we have Pastoria and, >non-canonically, Ozroar; no Ozzes or Ozmas. It can be assumed that all >Ozian rulers named their firstborn sons Oz and their firstborn daughters >Ozma. I think that Pastoria was the younger brother of a Prince Oz, perhaps >also enchanted by Mombi, died (depending on when Oz became a fairyland), or >just lost interest in ruling. When the Wizard came to Oz, the people saw >the "O. Z." on his balloon, and they assumed he was Pastoria's older >brother, Oz. This same explanation could be used to explain Ozroar's name. I'll have to admit that I've never liked the name "Ozroar" for some pre-Pastoria king of Oz, and there's no FF justification for it. But I like your idea as to why there was a King Pastoria despite Ozma's statement that all the previous rulers were named Oz or Ozma. Atticus >As for the artists, well, IIRC Neill hasn't posted anything >here in a while. Well, yeah, I meant original artists as opposed to the use of PD illustrations from the books. But I wasn't clear enough. >--Has anyone ever seen nude pictures of Polychrome on the Internet? If so, >please forward them to me. Actually, it might not be too difficult to produce such with a scanner and a good art program; some of Neill's illustrations would only require getting rid of some gauzy draperies and adding a few obvious details. Not that I'd think of doing such a thing, but I wouldn't be too surprised if someone did. ;-) Lisa: >And out of the three girls, I prefer Betsy. Somebody once said that _nobody_ >can prefer Betsy since she's only a cheap copy of Dorothy, while I entirely >disagree. She has a rather strong character, seemingly more mature >than Dorothy and esp. Trot. When you read the books, you find that she >uses no childish lisps and seems less afraid. She's supposed to be a bit older and therefore it's logical that she might be more mature. But she also seems much more passive than either of the others, especially Dorothy. In the two books where she plays a significant role (_Tik-Tok_ and _Hungry Tiger_) she does very little other than serve as a point of view while others take on the active parts. Dorothy is similarly passive in some of the books (e.g. _Ozma_, _DotWiz_, _Road_, _Magic_), but in others she's definitely driving the plot (e.g. _Wizard_, _Lost Princess_, _Glinda_, _Wishing Horse_). Of course, this may just be because Dot has so many more adventures than Betsy that she has more chances to do something active. J.L.: ><havent have in -Wizard- and -Ozma-.>> > >It's not really a Cockney accent, but an all-purpose American rural >dialect. Jes' as Baum firs' uses baby-talk for Dor'thy in OZMA, so Aunt Em >and Uncle Henry arrive by their accents late in the series. Also, Aunt Em and Uncle Henry have a grand total of two lines each in _Wizard_ and _Ozma_ combined, which isn't enough to establish much about their accents. In fact, as far as I recall, they don't have any lines in all the rest of Baum outside of _Emerald City_, though I wouldn't swear that Uncle Henry doesn't say something in the counselors' meeting in _Glinda_. And I don't think Thompson gives them any lines, either. They do have some conversation in _Scalawagons_; I'm not sure if they do in _Wonder City_ or _Magical Mimics_, though they might. > But I think Illumi Nation plays a crucial role in the plot of KABUMPO >because that's where Pompa's hair is singed off. I suppose you're right that this makes it relevant, but I still didn't like the episode much when I first read it and it hasn't improved with age. I think it would have been possible for Thompson to have achieved the same results in a more interesting way. (This is Oz-as-literature, of course; from Oz-as-history POV, the episode is there because that's how it happened.) Mike: >But this got me to >wondering: even if one _accepts_ the stork story, where do the STORKS get >them? >(the baby store? which in turn gets them from the baby warehouse, whither >they >are delivered by the baby wholesaler who gets them from.....? God?) In Baum's mythos, the storks get them in the Valley of Babies in Merryland. And the babies get to the valley in baby-blossoms that drop down from the sky. How they get into the baby-blossoms is a mystery; God is as good an answer as any, I suppose. (Or the Supreme Master, if you stick with Baum's mythos. If there's a difference between the Supreme Master and God, rather than just a variation in nomenclature.) Gehan again: >It would be nice to see a beautiful,yet wicked witch in Oz. All the Ozzy >Witches are old ugly hags. The Wicked witch of the South could have easily >been a beautiful witch,but Rachel Payes made her another old hag. We cant >point out Queen Coo-ee-oh because she's not exactly beautiful....Are there >any non FF books with wicked,beautiful witches? Probably, though I don't recall any. However, there are several beautiful yet wicked characters in the FF. Mrs. Yoop is something of a witch and described as being at least nice-looking, if not strictly beautiful (and as Neill drew her I think "beautiful" is accurate enough). Delva in _Purple Prince_ is beautiful and nasty. And Wutz, while male, is about as wicked a wizard as they come, and is also described as very handsome. Ruth: >(RPT can't >very well have been thinking of "leagues" as being the same as >"fathoms" -- 600 feet between Sapphire City and Keretaria is much too >short. But she might have been thinking of a league as something >vaguely intermediate.) My theory is that Thompson confused a league and a furlong - another rather archaic measure of distance, though it's still used in measuring horse races. A furlong is 1/8 of a mile, and 12 1/2 miles between Sapphire City and Keretaria works out about right when you put my scale onto the Haff-Martin map. Dave: >Has anyone seen a book called _Oz and Beyond: The Fantasy World of >L. Frank Baum_ by Michael O. Riley? I saw it at Border's. but couldn't >browse through it because it was wrapped up in "celephant". :) Yes, in fact it was discussed on the Digest when it first appeared in the fall of 1997. It's quite good; it's less a bio of Baum than an anaysis of how his vision of Oz and the surrounding countries developed over the course of his writing career. He devotes considerable ink to the other books Baum wrote that connect with Oz as well as the Oz books themselves. I highly recommend it to you and to anyone else who enjoys the kind of discussions that dominate the Digest. >Didn't he re-learn evil ways from other Nomes, which is why the second >time around Ozma thought it would be safer to keep him in the Emerald >City? That's what Ozma says in _Magic_, but it's possible that that's just speculation on her part. From other evidence it seems as if Ruggedo remembers what happened before his first dose of the water of oblivion, in _Tik-Tok_, _Magic_, and _Kabumpo_. >MGM EC: >Does anyone besides me dislike the MGM depiction of the Emerald City? >Those tall, rodlike things are presumably skyscrapers and I just can't >believe Oz would have any. I like the MGM depiction as an image, but agree that it doesn't faintly resemble my own mental picture of the Emerald City. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:11:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Tigerbooks@aol.com Subject: Ozzy Digest note Dear Everyone, Check out the latest issue of the comic book Astro City #17. It won't be difficult to spot the Oz references. It's nice to see an Oz comic done well. The artist, Brent Anderson, told me about this a couple months ago when he was drawing it. I told him that I could supply reference if he needed it, but he was already in touch with someone who had plenty of Oz books. I think Astro City #17 shipped last week, so it should be on the stands for a couple more weeks yet. Best bet for locating a copy is your local comic store, call 1-888-COMIC-BOOK toll free for the location of the comic store nearest you. (Oh, and if you happen to check out my current comic book series Age of Bronze while you're there, I certainly won't mind.) Best, Eric Shanower ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:59:08 -0500 From: Bea & Herschel Premack Subject: Ozzy Digest: Oz and Beyond X-Priority: 3 Dave...I have read and enjoyed Riley's Oz and Beyond. The inside jacket says: "Oz and Beyond provides the first comprehensive analysis of all of Baum's fantasy creations and his evolution as a fantasy writer, demonstrating that Baum had a more consistent and disciplined imagination than is generally recognized." It is worth adding to your library, or at least read from the public library. Obtain through Univ Press of Kansas 2501 West 15th St Lawrence Ks. 66049 Also suggest reading Wisdom of Oz by Gita Morena (Baum's great grand daughter) You can check it over www.ozlovers.com These books are particularly important for our Aberdeen Oz Festival as they look at Baum's life as well as his writings and this is what we are doing, too. Bea Premack Bea Premack ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 May 99 14:38:09 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook (Temporarily) Subject: Ozzy Things OZ AND BEYOND: Thanks for all the comments/reviews. DAVID G.: >X-Authentication-warning: Host dialup-pm1-29.minn.net >[208.16.89.39] claimed to be [208.16.89.39] Jellia: This is the thin end of the wedge! Next thing you know Ruggedo will be running around claiming to be Ruggedo! :) >Dave: >Sorry to hear about Mindspring's abruptness. I admit I was worried. Thanks... It's good to know some people care what happens to me... :) Hopefully my Mindspring account will be reinstated by the time the next Digest comes out. I apologize for the inconveniance, and also for the long list of Digest subscribers showing up at the start of the Digest (Delphi doesn't support Blind-Carbon-Copy)... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave DaveH47@mindspring.com, http://www.mindspring.net/~daveh47/ Take the time to taste the honey on a summer breeze, Touch the love song every bird has learned to sing. Feel the sunlight as it warms you on the coolest day, And you'll feel a part of what we're gathering -- The senses of our world." -- The Bugaloos, "The Senses of Our World" ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 17 - 21, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:06:54 -0400 (EDT) From: CruentiDei@cs.com Subject: Oz SOme of this post is recycled from yesterday, or as much as I can remember. Nathan: There are probably ivory mines all over Oz. I'd bet they're evenly distributed throughout Oz, since they do not readily fit into the color scheme. Atty: Your comments from Sarcasmia were quite clever. Nevertheless, some people have given serious consideration to the theory that the Wizard and Glinda are more than friends. 20,000 leagues under the Deadly Desert: It's been a while since I read the thing. Does anybody remember if the Nautilus went under what will become the Suez Canal in some underwater tunnel? Gehan: My e-mail has undergone some changes. tnj@compuserve.com is gone. I am noe at CruentiDei@cs.com. tyler@apprentice.com is no longer alive. We changed some things and now I am tylerj@apprentice.com. However, tyler@apprentice.com should be an alias in our e-mail server. We had to take the e-mail server down over the weekend while we played musical offices/cubicles. Using any of CruentiDei@cs.com tyler@apprentice.com or tylerj@apprentice.com should now work fine. Rugeedo and Mimics: It was Ruth Berman who first made this comment, in the May 2-6 Digest. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:43:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16-99 John Bell: ell that you've written these scenes with Scraps, the Scarecrow, Tik-Tok, and that knight of yours, but the children are going to miss their other favorites. We asked Johnny Neill to draw big pictures of them, and would you insert a few words about each?" The actions the Wizard, Jack, and the tin man take are quite in character for them, but they don't advance the plot or action--so much so, in fact, that they make a reader as sharp as Ruth wonder why not.>> That's possible,John, especially since RPT was eager to please R&L early on in her stint with them. What bothers me is why she'd throw in the red herring about the Wizard. That doesn't feel like her. I mean, why not some other less intriguing dialogue and/or description? His lines aren't non-leading, they're mis-leading. That's why I think that, whatever her motivations were for including the Wizard, she had something in mind for him that she simply didn't develop later for one reason or another. Surely, btw, Ruth and I weren't the only kids intrigued and even irritated by the Wizard's "plan." ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:28:58 +0300 From: ltharris Subject: digest entry As I reread Kabumpo, I have to admit that rereading Baums books are much more enjoyable than rereading Thompsons books. Gehan: Face it, the types of Baum and other FF purists on the digest find it difficult to admit that the movie was great, possibly better than the book. Tzvi Harris Talmon, Israel ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:00:06 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16-99 Betsy Bobbin: Lisa is right! Betsy is by no way a cheap rip off of Dorothy. She has a totally different character and a different spirit. She acts more mature than Dorothy in -Tiktok-. However,she was very "Betsyish" in -Hungry Tiger-. Nathan: >Yes, a wish is a wish, but that doesn't mean the wishing pills will grant >it. Well,then what are wishing pills for it they cant do what they're made to do? John Bell: >Being a Christian man, would you be able to hear it? Well,I'm not the one who's telling it and neither am I the one whom it is being told to. I just want to know _what_ she was going to say.... David(Godwin): >Gehan wrote: >>Ozzy Witches: >>It would be nice to see a beautiful,yet wicked witch in Oz. > >As I'm sure you're aware, Glinda states as a fact of life in the MGM movie >that wicked witches are ugly and good witches are beautiful. Oh no she doesnt. She jus tells Dorothy:"Only bad witches are ugly" and she doesnt say;"only good witches are beautiful!". There are lots of beautiful yet wicked witches in non-Oz stories.. David(Hulan): Sorry,I was so confused at that time with lots of things at the back of my mind that I didnt know what I was saying when I said that Dorothy wasn't 5 at the time of _wizard_. Well,we can forget the Ozzy Time_line after the events of Emerald City because Dorothy has already settled in Oz and she will always remain the same age. _Scarecrow_ could have even taken place 10 years after _EC_ for all we know. When Baum says that Betsy is one year older than Dorothy,I think that its only by her chronological age. I beleive that Dorothy would have been much older than Betsy,had she not come to live in Oz. Well,Coo-ee-oh never wanted to kidnap Ozma either. She didnt want a ransom and so it cant be called kidnapping either. She just wanted to be high-and-mighty I guess,to think that she rules the Queen of all Oz. Latest Oz News: I heard on Lisa's RTOZ Mailing List that Drew Barrymore was acting in a new Oz Movie in which Dorothy's great granddaughter goes to Oz to deal with the Witch of the West's great granddaughter. It sounds quite original and quite fun. --Gehan ============================================================================ ==== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:26:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Mulac DeHoff Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16-99 Ruth: >Nathan DeHoff: Ruggedo is about one foot tall in "Kabumpo"? I think >your memory is misleading you. There isn't any direct statement to >that effect. Perhaps you got that impression from his being able to >sit >in a "doll's rocker" -- but dolls come in many sizes. It can't even >be >assumed that the doll-size involved would be the same as Peg's (Peg >and Wag seem to be about that same size, which might make her 1-2 >feet tall pre-expansion), because Peg was Trot's doll, and the rocker >was Betsy Bobbin's. A rocker for a 3-foot doll might well >accommodate a 4-foot Nome. After Ruggedo uses the Expanding Extract on Peg Amy, Thompson gives her height as four feet, and later mentions that she is about four times Rug's size. I think that both these mentions occur in the book, anyway. Shaggy: > > > Seems to me that lions, Cowardly or otherwise, and tigers, > > > >hungry or > > > otherwise, ain't exactly common fare in American forests..... Well, lions aren't really common fare in ANY forests, since they're creatures of the plains. Ozian animals seem to be more adaptive to odd climates than animals in the Outside World. > > > I did not find the "Coal Black Lulu" song offensive in any > > > >but aesthetic ways. What was the BOW version? The BoW versions changes "coal-black" to "cross-eyed," presumably because of the racism implied in referring to a woman as "coal-black." Gehan: >I think this book should have been called the Elegant Elephant of Oz >or >Prince Poma of Oz. The name Kabumpo doesnt sound at all attractive. I >wondered what on earth the story was about before reading the >synopsis. Well, this could be said about many Oz books, even if the title character is immediately recognizable. For instance, it's obvious that the Hungry Tiger is going to be an important character in _The Hungry Tiger of Oz_, but the title gives no hint as to what the Tiger actually does in the story. I do find it a bit odd that the title is _Kabumpo IN Oz_, even though Kabumpo lives in Oz. >We never see any elephants in Baum's Oz and so we can also see >Thompson's >wide imagination. Baum does give some precedent for elephants in Oz, since the Cowardly Lion mentions them as some of the animals that he scared with his roar (in _Wizard_). Thompson clearly had a love for elephants (or knew that her child readers had a love for elephants), however. David Hulan: ****Slight spoilers for_Kabumpo_, _Purple Prince_, _Wonder City_, and _Ojo_****** > >To the best of my recollection there are only two references to >babies >being born during the time of the FF - in _Purple Prince_ Princess >Pajonia >has been born to Pompadore and Peg Amy after their marriage at the >end of >_Kabumpo_, and in _Ojo_ there's a reference to Ojo's birth after Ozma >ascended the throne (which would tend to imply that, _pace_ Baum's >statement in _Tin Woodman_, babies do not remain babies forever). I >may be >forgetting some other reference, though - but there aren't many, and >I >think they're all in Thompson. In _Wonder City_, it is stated that Number Fourteen (Number Nine's brother) had not yet reached the "stop-growing age" of twelve, implying that he is less than twelve years old. This probably would have meant that he was born during Ozma's reign. ************End spoilers*********************** >Also, Aunt Em and Uncle Henry have a grand total of two lines each in >_Wizard_ and _Ozma_ combined, which isn't enough to establish much >about >their accents. In fact, as far as I recall, they don't have any lines >in >all the rest of Baum outside of _Emerald City_, though I wouldn't >swear >that Uncle Henry doesn't say something in the counselors' meeting in >_Glinda_. And I don't think Thompson gives them any lines, either. >They do >have some conversation in _Scalawagons_; I'm not sure if they do in > >_Wonder City_ or _Magical Mimics_, though they might. In _Wonder City_, Aunt Em and Uncle Henry show up several times (at the Wogglebug's meeting in the ivory tower and on the palace porch when Jenny returns from the chocolate star, for instance), and they speak during many (if not all) of these appearances. I think Em and Henry mention that Dorothy had not visited them in some time during the course of _Magical Mimics_. Nathan _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:25:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "W. H. Baldwin" Subject: Oz Digest Cc: Editor Dave X-Priority: 3 For those who might be interested, a bit of an update on the Corel Print House (TM) Magic "The Wizard of Oz (TM)" Edition. I have an advert with a little more info on it. As with the earlier report, it says you can "create birthday cards, party themes, invitations, signs and banners, calendars, finger puppets, Color Me projects, masks and more." It also says ". . . Include your favorite images and classic phrases from the movie, or add your own personal touches to create magical projects. . . ." The advert also adds "georgeous photos and backgrounds right from the movie" and illustrates three examples: (1)full-color scene of Dorothy and Scarecrow sitting or kneeling on the ground talking or whatever while an enlarged facial shot of WWW/Gulch skulks offstage right; (2)full-color scene of, I think, Glinda managing Dorothy's send-off at the end of the movie (the illo is small and details hard to make out); (3)a sepia-toned composite of Dorothy in three-quarter frontal half-torso shot gazing at something stage left, a shot of the Terrible Tornado in the middle distance, the infamous Gulch on her bicycle (earthbound), and the title of the movie in presumably period typography. As a sweetener, you are offered a FREE bean-filled toy "after rebate," although this mysterious rebate is nowhere described in the advert! It also says valid 5/15/99-6/30/99, toy shipped based on availability, a nice "out" if I ever read one. But the toys are illustrated, and they are cute! They're gonna be collectibles! Dorothy, Tin Man, Scarecrow, Lion, but I don't know if you get a choice. The cutest are Scarecrow and Lion. Picture Bert Lahr as a Muppet, and you've got it! The bad news: (1)The price is still $39.99. (2)It's listed for Win95/NT 4.0. I assume Win98, but not stated. Apparently if all you've got is clunky old Win3.1 or you have a Mac, you're out of luck. The good news: You may be able to find out more at www.tigerdirect.com; if you just can't wait, you can order at 1-800-848-9530. The item number is C130-1338P. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:50:15 -0500 From: jwkenne@ibm.net Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16-99 Christopher Straughn wrote: >This is getting more than slightly off subject, but I thought you might find >it interesting that "Aslan" is a Turkish word meaning "lion". The correct >pronunciation in Turkish is "uss-LUNN". I believe Lewis intended to mean "Lion", but his reference, as I understand it, was to Persian, not Turkish. (I don't know if he knew either language, but I know he was a great admirer of Firdausi.) Dave wrote: >Does anyone besides me dislike the MGM depiction of the Emerald City? >Those tall, rodlike things are presumably skyscrapers and I just can't >believe Oz would have any. Well, the entire look of the EC, inside and out, is _way_ too Art Deco from one viewpoint. On the other hand, is there anyone born in this century so curmugeonly as not to like Art Deco? But as to "skyscrapers", well, what's a fairy palace without a tower or two? Ruth Berman wrote: >It didn't say what they speak in >Montenegro, but I'd guess some mixture of Serbo-Croatian and the >rest. The Montenegrans speak Serbo-Croatian, I believe; I know that they regard themselves as Serbs, but distinguished from the main body by the fact that they were never under effective Turkish rule. (That makes current US-Montenegran relations _extremely_ touchy.) Gehan Cooray wrote: >For instance,colour is color in the states and >something like favourite is spelled as favorite. I dont know which >should be correct though In the early days of the USA, Noah Webster, the first important American compiler of dictionaries, engaged in a deliberate campaign to create an "American", as opposed to an "English" spelling. Nearly all his changes, in fact, involved changing French spellings ("cheque", "colour", "theatre", "baptise") to spellings that were either more natural English ("check", "theater"), or better corresponding to a word's Latin original ("color") or Greek ("baptize"). * * * I know we haven't had anything to say for a while. Last year we did a LOT of traveling, and it's taken a while to catch up. But I do have a bit of Ozzy news. This year, as last year, Eleanor and I are in the cast of the New Jersey Renaissance Kingdom, as "Queen Duella of Cameliard" and "Fr. Martin", most of the day, but also as "Ursula" and "Pantalone" in "Framing Isabella" and as "Regan" and "Gloucester" in "King Lear". The NJRK is adding a new children's section this year, and Meinhardt Raabe (the 1939 Munchkin Coronor) is scheduled to make a guest appearence on Father's Day. See http://www.NJKingdom.com. We open Saturday, and are running for six weekends, including Memorial Day Monday. // John W Kennedy ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:47:04 -0500 From: Bea & Herschel Premack Subject: Ozzy Digest: Aberdeen Festival For everyone: I have been waiting to send out information about our Aberdeen festival until everything was booked and firm but I had best get at least this out to you...the program is almost complete. The festival dates are Aug 7 and 8, 1999 again to be held at our Wylie Park Storybook Land grounds. Activities in the HERITAGE TENT include: (I will send exact speakers' topics and bios when they are firm) Clifford Canku: Native American story teller relating historical tales Eric Newton: Director of Newseum with the Freedom Foundation speaking on the history of newspapers particularly relating to the history and type of paper that Baum published in Aberdeen Tim Giago: former publisher of Indian Country Today will look at Baum's "editorials", Indian history of Baum's time Barbara Johnson will speak on Baum's newspaper and his published articles relating to Native Americans and other relevant subjects... There will be time for Q and A with speakers. (With this line up of speakers, we are working with the local Northern State University on having a for credit course available) Rod Evans will present Baum (he does Baum's character) Tiospa Zina Dance and Drum Club from Sisseton SD will perform Stephanie Red Elk and Curt Brewer: Native American dancers Lakota Historical Society: relate Lakota history and customs Barbershop Chorus: musical performance....period music Aberdeen City Band: musical performance...period music PERFORMANCE TENT Markie Schulz: puppetier: Road to Oz Tik Tok of Oz: Based on the book, an original script written and produced locally with high school and university students as performers Preservations: musicians doing primarilly Victorian waltzes, etc Storybook Land Theater: children's play Bertsch and Borgesen: Gay nineties musical performance STORYTELLING TENT Meinhardt Raabe: Munchkin Mayor: tells about his performance in the MGM movie Margie Coxwell: tells Baum children's stories, including from Mother Goose in Prose Oz Writing Competition winners: local competition winners reading their work Rod Evans: presents the character of the scarecrow Clifford Canku: Native American children's stories DISPLAY TENT Museum historical display Statewide Art Competition display Arts purchase award display (from 1997 and 98 festivals) Book sales, festival shirts, 1998 and 99 festival prints, etc Memorabelia sales Meinhard Raabe autographs YOUTH HERITAGE ARTS FESTIVAL (sponsored by the city Parks and Rec Dep't, Scouts, Boys and Girls Club, Museum, Library) large tent filled with hands on art, craft and historical activities for children including: candle making, dreamcatchers, weaving, wool dying, games, lots of crafts, etc. etc. ROVING ENTERTAINMENT Musician Magician Clown 13 Oz Characters visit with children and adults and sign autographs Watermelon feed and autograph party There will be a small variety of crafts booths and of course food vendors. Also new this year, done jointly through the Oz festival and youth heritage arts festival will be a rendezvous....a campsite including the Lakota Heritage Society, Muzzeloaders and Infantry group...all in costume and displaying historical gear, etc. More about this later. This just gives you a quick idea of what will be going on. If you have specific questions, please contact me...we hope some of you can come to Aberdeen this summer. When I have written bios and more specifics, I will fill you in....this is pretty sketchy information. Bea Premack ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:34:23 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte Subject: Oz Relay Chat and other rantings What does everyone think of an Oz channel (#ozma) on IRC? (Chatnet server) I need 8 supporters (actually, since Dave already said okay, down to seven) to sign it up. Email me if you are interested in being a supporter. Gehan: <> I used to say RTOZ all the way ... but now all I can say they are two entirely different movies and cannot be compared. Think about it: Fairuza Balk was only 9/10 when she filmed, and Judy Garland was 16/17. There's no competing and they both have to be loved for what they are. Gehan's new Oz story: Frankly, it sounds far-fetched and crappy. No offense. :) Doug T.: <> Regardless of the fact the only Neill book I've read is _Scalawagens_ (correct my spelling if I'm wrong), I personally like his work. His drawings aren't the best, but hey, the story is what *really* matters. Peace!! ~*Lisa*~ ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:54:12 -0400 From: Lisa M Mastroberte Subject: More Oz! ~*/~*/*~ What did Aunt Em want to say to Miss Gulch? Well, if she had the chance she would in all probability say "You (add colorful metaphors, as Mr. Spock would say) little b----! To treat my nieces dog like that!" While hippikaloric old woman is better, Auntie Em wouldn't even *know* the word. ;-) There's a copy of _A Wrinkle in Time_ itching to be opened by me. Enough computer, give me BOOKS! Peace!! ~*Lisa*~ =========================================== _ _ Lisa, ozma.rules@cheerful.com or 4liberty@bigfoot.com .-. | | | |M|_|A|N| "Books wind into the heart...We read them when young, |A|a|.|.|<\ remember them when old. We read there of what has happened |T|r| | | \\ to ourselves... Books let us into the souls of men, and lay |H|t|M|Z| \\ open to us the secrets of our own. They are the first and | |!| | | \> the most home-felt of all our enjoyments." *Wm. Hazlitt* """""""""""""""""" ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:20:18 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-99 John Bell and David Hulan: Thanks very much for the info regarding Vernes' 20,000 Leagues --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:03:53 -0500 Subject: PGOz From: "David Frank Godwin" Curiouser and curiouser. This time I received the Digest twice. Michael Turniansky wrote (concerning PGOz): > I did not find the "Coal Black Lulu" song offensive in any but aesthetic > ways. What was the BOW version? BOW substituted "cross-eyed" for "coal-black," as well as deleting the phrase "Their skins were dusky" with reference to the Tottenhots (not to mention excising Neill's drawing of a Tottenhot from _Rinkitink_). The whole thing was discussed at great length in the Digest in January of 1996, which can be downloaded from Tyler's website. Mr. Glassman's position was that leaving in the racial slurs (if "coal-black Lulu" be taken as such) would prevent black children from enjoying the Oz books, and he wants to spread the happiness/Oziness as widely as possible. - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 20:48:30 -0500 Subject: Oz creatures From: "David Frank Godwin" The Sawhorse: Does anyone else think, as I do, that the Sawhorse is often portrayed as a disagreeable, hot-tempered, violent (and dangerous) creature? He is always giving a vicious kick to creatures who just happen to irritate him a little, such as Hank or the Woozy. The Ozites seem to like him well enough, but woe to the animal who gets under his bark. I canıt think offhand of any instances in which heıs kicked human beings, though. The Woozy: Are the Woozyıs post-FF adventures related anywhere except in one or two books by March Laumer? Do Laumerıs books contain any startling revelations or developments, or are they just straight adventures? Iım always had a certain fondness for the Woozy, so I feel moved to inquire after his welfare. I'd hate to think of his getting "disenchanted" and becoming a poodle. As for ordering any of Laumerıs books, I am not too sure how to go about it. Does he have some system for taking and filling orders when he is not in the U.S.? How much if anything does he charge for postage and handling? - David G. ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:25:20 EDT Subject: Oz Test Dave (and olthers): This is a test message to the Ozzy Digest, using Dave's traditional Ozzy Digest Address: OzDigest@mindspring.com Hopefully, it has arisen from the dead. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:53:47 -0700 Non-Ozzy Tech support: Does anybody know the answer to these questions: Is there any way to switch back and forth between different screen names in AOL without logging off and then logging back on again? If so, how? Thanks, Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:23:10 -0700 From: "Peter E. Hanff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-99 Dear Ozzy Digesters: Just a last minute reminder that any of you who are planning to attend the 1999 Winkie Convention at Asilomar Conference Grounds should let me know right away. I am obliged by contract to release rooms not reserved at 90 days, 60 days, and 30 days, or I pay for those not used. I had to release a number of rooms this past Saturday, but would happily add a few back to our block if I know you are committed to attending. Hope to see many of you in July! Best, Peter Hanff Winkie Convention Registrar ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:04:57 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-11-99 Nathan: In _Pirates_, RPT tells us that Ruggedo is 4' tall. He drew himself up to his full four feet, she says. (Close paraphrase) Could he have grown since _Kabumpo_? If so, how? There's a story there for someone to tell. Another story to tell is suggested by your << When Matiah visits the cavern in _Wishing Horse_, however, it contains a full-sized table and chairs (and possibly some other furniture; I can't quite remember). Is it possible that someone used the cave in between _Kabumpo_ and _Wishing Horse_? I suppose it could have even been Ruggedo himself, in the period between _Gnome King_ and _Pirates_.>> Someone write the stories, please! :o) Doug Torrance: <> I like Neill's imagination. His books are fun. By the time he wrote _Lucky Bucky_, he was even learning how to plot a book! His first two Oz books are undisciplined writings, but they're still fun. John Bell: << WIZARD is as much myth as novel, and therefore doesn't measure up on a yardstick for novels anymore than PATCHWORK GIRL measures up on a yardstick for myths. >> Super analysis! Impressive, sir. Mike T.: << even if one _accepts_ the stork story, where do the STORKS get them?>> Isn't there something in _Dot and Tot_ about this? Or is my memory faulty? Bea: Sorry, but I don't know anything about currently available translations of Oz. Try Herm. Dave Hardenbrook: <> Michael's book is not a Baum bio, but it's a dandy book all the same. It deals with all of Baum's fantasy worlds, not just Oz. It's a terrific overview of Nonestica. MGM Emerald City: It's the epitome of Art Deco. I hated it as a kid, since it didn't look at all like Neill, but I've learned to kinda like it. It's campy. Kitsch. (But it's not the "real" E. City, is it...). --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 May 99 17:05:04 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things My account appears to be reinstated, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say, go ahead and go back to sending Digests posts to OzDigest@mindspring.com If I have any further problems I'll let you know. -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 21 - 23, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== From: "Weisberg, Larry" Subject: RE: New Posting Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:32:49 -0700 Is anyone familiar with the hardcover version of "Magical Monach of Mo" published by Peter Smith? Full illustrations? Color Plates (if there were any)? On the same note, will Books of Wonder be tackling this title? If so... Peter... will they be commissioning new illustrations or restoring the old (I'd prefer the originals). Ozzily yours... Larry Weisberg ldweisberg@geocities.com )|( (o o) --------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------------------------- "Welcome to Oz" http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/2525 Also consider visiting "WEISBERG on the WEB" http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6188 ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 May 99 16:02:21 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: hops in Oz (I think I sent this before, but it wasn't in May 21 digest, so it may not have reached Dave, or I may have misremembered sending. Anyhow:) Nathan DeHoff: Oz ivory -- aren't there some kinds of woods that are close to ivory in color and texture? And it's possible to make plastics that substitute pretty well for ivory (although I believe some pianists complain that plastic keys just don't give the control of touch that the ivories did). Then again, plastics in Oz don't sound very appropriate, either. Maybe, as you say, it grows magically. Michael Turniansky: Dorothy's expression "mad as hops" -- I see in a dictionary ("Webster's Collegiate") that "hop" (the plant, Middle English hoppe, akin to Old High German hopfo and Old English sceaf/sheaf) means not just the stuff used to flavor beer, but, as slang, any narcotic drug, especially opium, and the related verb means to drug or stimulate with drugs, and so to rouse or excite. It looks as if these meanings may be separate from the origin of "hopping" from "to hop" (Middle English verb hoppen, from OE hoppian, akin to OE hype/hip) in the sense of "extremely, violently -- used adverbially in the phrase hopping mad" or the related adjective meaning "intensely active" or "extremely angry." If they're separate in origin, the similar meanings of "mad as hops" (anyone recall running across this usage in any other context?) and "hopping mad" might be entirely coincidental, or might represent a coinage made by someone (Baum?) who assumed that the two must be related. You wouldn't think Baum would deliberately use a phrase that he knew meant high on drugs (see the Digest's previous discussion of Neill's illo of Inga's dope), but he might not have realized the connection. // I sometimes tell my cat I can see her little pink brains work when her thoughts are conspicuously obvious ("Out!" "In!" "Feed me!"). I don't know if she appreciate the reference, though. J.L. Bell: Yes, the Jack Pumpkinhead and Tin Woodman brief mention/big illo combinations do seem to fit in with the Wizard mention/illo, and maybe strengthen the likelihood that the mentions were late additions put in by editorial request. Gehan Cooray: I seem to recall that "The Elegant Elephant of Oz" was one of the titles considered for it. Unattractiveness of name "Kabumpo" -- keep in mind that James Fenimore Cooper's Deerstalker series, with a hero named Natty Bumpo, remained popular for a long time. (I'm not sure if it actually went on being popular after Mark Twain's essay on the absurdity of the stories came out, late 19th century, but they went on being considered important and automatically assigned as high school reading for a long time. Dropped out of the curriculum maybe around WWII?) Jill Moore: Sorry to hear you have to liquidate the collection. It's hard to have to do -- but perhaps there's some consolation in knowing that people who love them will probably be the ones taking them on. David Godwin: I don't know of specific examples of other boy-heroes (besides Speedy and Rick Brant) living with scientist guardians on east-coast islands, but there were so many boy-hero serieses that I suspect that there are earlier ones. // Appearance of Ruggedo in "Mimics" -- no one said he appeared there. (But, yes, I was the one who said he was mentioned there.) Dave Hardenbrook: Long list of Digest-members -- it wouldn't be interesting on a regular basis, but it's kind of fun to see every once in a while how the list has grown. Noticing people calling themselves Spockoz and nimoyfan, I'll comment that I'm a long-time "Star Trek" fan and used to put out a STzine, "T-Negative," and have kept its back issues available. If interested, contact me privately with a post-mail address, and I could send information on my ST-publications. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-99 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:09:56 PDT Gehan: >Nathan: > >Yes, a wish is a wish, but that doesn't mean the wishing pills will grant > >it. > Well,then what are wishing pills for it they cant do what they're made to >do? They do grant wishes, but not ANY wishes. Otherwise, we wouldn't have much in the way of stories, would we? >I heard on Lisa's RTOZ Mailing List that Drew Barrymore was acting in a new >Oz Movie in which Dorothy's great granddaughter goes to Oz to deal with the >Witch of the West's great granddaughter. It sounds quite original and quite >fun. No, actually, it sounds like the recent Tedrow book _Dorothy: Return to Oz_, which was said to have been very poor. >Regardless of the fact the only Neill book I've read is _Scalawagens_ >(correct my spelling if I'm wrong), I personally like his work. Okay. The correct spelling is "Scalawagons." David Godwin: >Are the Woozyıs post-FF adventures related anywhere except in one or two >books by March Laumer? Do Laumerıs books contain any startling revelations >or developments, or are they just straight adventures? Iım always had a >certain fondness for the Woozy, so I feel moved to inquire after his >welfare. I'd hate to think of his getting "disenchanted" and becoming a >poodle. I believe that Aaron Adelman was working on a book about the Woozy, which would reveal that he was a creation of Hiergargo the Magician (from _Tik-Tok_). I don't know if he's still working on it or not. Tyler: >Is there any way to switch back and forth between different screen names in >AOL without logging off and then logging back on again? If so, how? Which version of AOL are you using? In Version 4.0, the option "Switch Screen Name" can be found under "Sign Off." Dave: Could you please stop sending the Digest to Haldehoff@aol.com? That's an address that I used to use, but I don't anymore, and the Digests are just taking up space. (Please continue to send the Digest to my regular address, though.) Nathan _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:05:24 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: back to KABUMPO David Godwin wrote: <> Obviously, you hadn't ain't seen nothin' yet. Probably a last symptom of the changeover back to digests from Mindspring. Congratulations, Dave Hardenbrook, on re-establishing yourself. John W. Kennedy wrote: <> Interesting point about Webster. He was a New England Federalist, and that party went swiftly from opposing England to much preferring it over Revolutionary France. So his "Americanization" of English may well have had an anti-French bias. Welcome back to the conversation, padre. My best to your queen. David Godwin wrote: <> Having fictional inventions available helps an author plot these sorts of adventures: a machine can carry someone away more swiftly than known devices (YELLOW KNIGHT, MAGIC KEY), have conveniently advanced powers (SHAGGY MAN, BOY FORTUNE HUNTERS IN THE YUCATAN), be targets for spies or rivals (not in Baum's books or the Oz series as I can recall), and so on. Living with a famous scientist in the nation's largest metropolitan area (and publishing center) might thus have been a common motif. Where did Tom Swift originally live? I recall he had a wonderful flying machine--was his father or other mentor an inventor? More thoughts on KABUMPO: At the start of our conversation I wrote, "one quality of Thompson's little monarchies is that everyone (author, reader, characters) seems to know how small kingdoms in fairy tales are *supposed* to be." Some remarks from the book to back that up: * "[Pompus, Pozy Pink, and Pompa] looked exactly as a good old-fashioned royal family should." [18] * "Peg, being made of wood, did not feel the bumps and Pompa, being a Prince, pretended not to." [217] * "'The Prince always rescues the Princess he intends to marry,' said Kabumpo [to Ozma] wearily. 'I should think you'd know that.'" [257] As Ruth Berman wrote, most of Kabumpo's assumptions about how his prince's life should be turn out to be wrong, and the Proper Princess being a wooden doll seems to undercut the whole notion of propriety and princesshood. But then Glegg's spell over Peg Amy is dispelled, and everything is restored to how fairyland kingdoms are supposed to work: beautiful princess, handsome prince, sumptuous palaces. The marriage would have been much more novel and therefore subversive if Peg had remained a wooden doll, but Thompson (and perhaps we) wouldn't have accepted that. Both this story and ROYAL BOOK tell of people [royalty, of course] who were alive in the flesh, then turned magically into plants. Each person's spirit then entered into an artificial anthropoid, retaining a few foggy memories of the original life. Peg Amy's arrival on the scene gives Thompson a chance to play with a motif Baum used often, the dawning of a character's consciousness. But Peg's memories give her a head start over the Scarecrow, Jack Pumpkinhead, Scraps, and others. She also rather swiftly seems to take the mantle of protagonist in the book. She immediately tackles Ruggedo [127--"I could pick him up with one hand!"]. When she joins Pompa and Kabumpo, her adjustment to life is simply more interesting than their adjustment to not living privileged lives. We see scenes through her eyes [e.g., 220]. Almost everyone quickly comes to love her: Wag, Pompa and Kabumpo, the Runaway Country. Peg has a significantly different attitude toward being alive from those of preceding characters, though. Except for the Gump, they accept their animation happily and matter-of-factly. They don't question it as Peg does: "I haven't even any right to be alive." The Scarecrow wanted to better himself with brains, but she desires only to justify her present state. Peg also seems to have received the servile attitudes that Ojo didn't give Scraps. She expresses her affection for Kabumpo and Pompa by cleaning and pinning up their robes. She thinks, "Perhaps I can help Pompa and maybe that's why I was brought to life" [220]. Am I wrong to see a parallel between this approach to finding a purpose in life and how young ladies were told they should find young men to serve? Miscellaneous bumps in KABUMPO: * The capitalization in the chapter list on page 13 isn't consistent with either standard rules or the way those titles appear later. Reilly & Lee was maintaining its usual copyediting standards. * A doorknob magically appears on page 36. In what other Oz book do enchanted doorknobs play a role? Is there any other book in the known universe besides these two that sees so much magic in doorknobs? * Ruggedo's treatment of Peg as a doll [85-6] resembles how a brother in a naughty mood might play with his sister's doll: acting out his aggressions while still speaking of the doll as a person. * Thompson makes the first Emerald City character to speak be her own Sir Hokus, firming up his place in the capital [95]. * Things not to do in Oz: "tip-toeing" up behind Glinda [168]. * The heroes' connection of "Glegg" to "J.G." is astonishingly poor logic [218], yet--as in LOST PRINCESS--this assumption turns out to be true. * Pompa and Peg are said to set up house on Sun Top Mountain, though we next see them in PURPLE PRINCE at Pumperdink [291]. Finally, I think Thompson's notion of a Runaway Country is terrific all around: in its physical description and workings, in its behavior, and in how it fits well into the plot. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> There are also elephants in Gugu's forest in MAGIC. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> Number Nine's family does seem to be the clearest example of parental fecundity in Oz. It's not surprising that Neill's novels also present the most crowded image of the Emerald City. Tyler Jones wrote about the MGM movie: <> You might enjoy Salman Rushdie's little book on the musical. He too talks about the geometric contrasts between images of Kansas and Munchkinland, with the cyclone swirling things up. Bea Premack wrote: <> Raabe played the Munchkin Coroner. The mayor, Raabe told us recently at Bob Collinge's New England Oz Fiesta, was played by a German immigrant selected for his impressive political belly. Raabe himself has excellent marketing skills, both as a young man and today; I was quite impressed by his drive. David Godwin wrote: <> See Martin Gardner's VISITORS for a most disagreeable portrait of the Sawhorse. I think the wooden steed is best described as abrupt, both in how he speaks to people and how he lashes out at creatures he doesn't like. But the Sawhorse actually does rather little damage with his heels, as I recall. The Woozy's thick hide is immune. The horse backs up against Hank but never lashes out. I don't recall him having a problem with Merry-Go-Round, who would most offend his sense of uniqueness. So the only folks who really suffer from his sharp reactions are Nomes. Nathan DeHoff wrote: <> I checked this out in an Ozian chat room, and the following comment came through in highly magnified type: "And I suppose Mr. DeHoff has been thoroughly educated in court protocol? I suppose *he* has written the book on the royalty of Oz? (Which has, incidentally, received excellent reviews--see the spring 1923 installment of QTLY. JOUR. COLL. ATH., available at pharmacies everywhere!)" I'm guessing QTLY. JOUR. COLL. ATH. is professorial jargon for QUARTERLY JOURNAL OF THE COLLEGE OF ATHLETICS, but I didn't bother to ask. This chatter seemed so very conceited that I didn't want to associate with him. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== From: jwkenne@ibm.net Date: Fri, 21 May 99 22:50:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-21-99 CruentiDei@cs.com wrote: >It's been a while since I read the thing. Does anybody remember if the >Nautilus went under what will become the Suez Canal in some underwater tunnel? Yes, the "Arabian Tunnel", which Captain Nemo discovered and named. (It does not, alas, exist in the real world.) // John W Kennedy ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:56:59 EDT Subject: Oz Tzvi wrote: > Face it, the types of Baum and other FF purists on the digest find it > difficult to admit that the movie was great, possibly better than the > book. As a major book purist, I freely admit that the movie was great. As for the second part, you're assuming that the movie really is better than the book. If I felt so, I would probably not be a book purist. In some cases, the movie is superior. It flows faster and some of the dialog is very funny. Overall, though, I truly believe that the book is superior. It goes into more detail about Oz, there are no interrupting songs, and Glinda is a much better character, although she appears less in the book. Gehan and the three wishes: Yes, a wish is a wish, but there is a gap in your reasoning. The wish magic may not always be powerful enough to do whatever you want. In other words, the wishing pills do what they're made to do, but like all magic, they cannot defeat more powerful magic. Suppose that a novice magician made some very low-grade wishing pills. You might be able to use them to wish yourself up a nice meal or to transport yourself to the Emerald City, but if someone has been enchanted by a much more powerful, then your pill may just not have the oomph to pull it off. if..then...else...: Glinda's statement in the MGM movie implies that all ugly witches are bad. Therefore, all good witches are beautiful as well as some of the bad ones. David Godwin: I can't remember any post-FF Woozy stories offhand. Aaron Adelman is working on _The Woozy of Oz_. He's bene writing it for a couple of years, though, so I don't know how much longer you'll have to wait. Whenever I've ordered books from March Laumer, I've always just writen a cehck from my US Bank Account and it's always been okay. Administrative Notes: For the first time in history, I edited an edition of the Ozzy Digest before putting it into cold storage. This was because many posts were duplicated multiple times. I erased the copies. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:09:53 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: BCF Now that _Kabumpo_ discussions seem to have ended how about starting on _Cowardly Lion_? Dont you think the next Digest would be a good time to start? --Gehan =============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:59:15 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Ozma Here is another one of my famous "Ozma's past" stories:An iedia on stuff like her mother,wheather she is Pastoria's biological daughter e.t.c King Pastoria married a fairy princess called Ozette from Lurline's band of fairies. Ozette gave brith to a fairy princess soon after:and this fairy was supposed to be Queen of Oz after Pastoria died. Later,Mombi,Singra and the other two witches conquered Oz and enslaved the people. Mombi kidnapped King Pastoria and his parents but failed to kidnap Queen Ozette. Ozette managed to hide from Mombi. Ozma was already a young princess(about 16 or 17)and Ozette used her powers to de-age her back to a baby just to protect her. She had no food or shelter and soon,she became exteremly ill. The Wizard found her in a secret tower in Morrow when he first came to Oz and she left Ozma in his care since she was too ill to look after her and soon,Ozette passed away. You know the rest of the story. Please comment on my story on the next Digest. I think that Ozma really WAS Pastoria's biological daughter but she still was a fairy because her mother was one. This also solves the mystery on her mother and it doesnt sound too far-fetched either..... See ya! --Gehan BTW Dave: Your Oz Picture Gallery doesnt have any pictures,only the picture titles. Why? ============================================================== "In all the world there's no place like home.......execpt Oz!" ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:20:59 -0700 From: Steve Teller Subject: Ozzy Matters I have not been absent since you last heard from me, I have just been finishing up a semester. I hope this message makes it to the digest. From: "David Frank Godwin" The Woozy: Are the Woozyıs post-FF adventures related anywhere except in one or two books by March Laumer? Do Laumerıs books contain any startling revelations or developments, or are they just straight adventures? Iım always had a certain fondness for the Woozy, so I feel moved to inquire after his welfare. I'd hate to think of his getting "disenchanted" and becoming a poodle. In the story about the Woozy's sticky beginning (which was included in IN OTHER LANDS THAN OZ AND also printed in an early OZIANA) we learn how the Woozy came into existence, as a result of a fairy riddle contest. As for ordering any of Laumerıs books, I am not too sure how to go about it. Does he have some system for taking and filling orders when he is not in the U.S.? How much if anything does he charge for postage and handling? - David G. March is rather idiosyncratic (that is he does things his own way. He spends part of the year in Lund, Sweden and part of the year in Florida. I will try to find you his Lund address in a future digest. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 May 99 14:53:40 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things GEHAN: >Please comment on my story on the next Digest. I think that Ozma really WAS >Pastoria's biological daughter but she still was a fairy because her mother >was one. This also solves the mystery on her mother and it doesnt sound too >far-fetched either..... Melody Grandy and I are in accord with your theory, at least as far as Ozma being the biological offspring of Pastoria and the fairy Ozette. >BTW Dave: Your Oz Picture Gallery doesnt have any pictures,only the picture >titles. Why? Because I was going to get a scanner and scan some of my drawings onto my page, but I decided I couldn't afford a scanner at the moment. I should take the page down but I'm still hoping to work something out because I can see how a scanner could come in handy for other things too... Like touching up my illios for _Locasta_... :) MARCH LAUMER: Steve T. wrote: >He spends part of the year in Lund, Sweden and part of the year in >Florida. I will try to find you his Lund address in a future digest. I E-mailed David his address privately... -- Dave ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 24 - 26, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] "AWOL" Digest Members: If anyone on the Digest knows how to contact these members, please notify them that their server is bouncing the Digest and not delivering it to them. If the bounces continue, they will be removed from my mailing list. ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:08:51 EDT Subject: Oz Gehan: _Kabumpo_ discussion is winding down, but I'm not sure that we're completely finished yet. In any case, it's not a good idea to start the next book immediately after wrapping up the old one. It's been a tradition here to wait a week or two so that people can re-read it and ponder it for a while before jumping in. And while we're on the subject. I liked the idea of Ruggedo as a revisionist historian: Writing his history in rocks, yet leaving out all of the unpleasant parts (sort of an Anti-Baum here), and painting himself as the good guy, and painting the Oz folk as prejudiced against the vertically challenged. This was the first RPT book I ever read, since my mother had a copy when I was much younger. I found myself wondering who this Hokus guy was, and assumed (correctly) that Dorothy found him while wandering Oz in the as yet un-read _Royal Book_. I found myself drawnn to RPT's style of language and dialog, and while I gripe about her overuse of IE's, she remains my favorite FF author. One thing I disapproved of, however, was the fact that the Emerald City people seemed to completely fall apart when the Palace vanished. Granted, there would have been shock, but RPT made it seem like the people were completely unable to function without Ozma around. Your recent Ozma history story is really a good one. Others on the digest have toyed with the de-aging of Ozma, since it does not make sense that she would have remained a baby for over 50 years, even in Oz. I also like the idea of Ozma's mother being a member of Lurline's band. That can tie up a lot of loose ends, and it's very clever. Good job on that one. I award you the "Silver Shoe" for excellence in creative thinking, although you may have to share it with Dave and Melody :-) Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:26:13 -0500 Subject: Ozbiquity From: "David F. Godwin" Itıs everywhere! Itıs everywhere! The closing theme that runs during the credits on the motion picture _Meet Joe Black_ is ³Over the Rainbow.² The table card advertising desserts at the Ground Round restaurants in the Twin Cities is headed ³Brownies and Ice Cream and Pies! Oh my!² - David G. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 May 99 12:12:51 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: knobs and cubes in Oz Tyler Jones: I said that Ruggedo was mentioned in "Mimics," but no one said that he appears as a character there. Robin Olderman: As to why RPT would mention the Wizard in a way that sounds as if there'll be a follow-up and then leave out the follow- up: Perhaps RPT (or whoever formed the sentence -- the wording could have been a specific suggestion by the R&L editor to match up with the artwork) didn't notice that saying that the Wizard was serene and smiling would sound to readers as if he had a special reason (like a plan of action) for his serenity. The passage could have been meant to suggest that the Wizard was trying to look serene in the panic to try to reassure the others. // I wasn't actually irritated by the gap in continuity as a child -- I don't think I noticed it as a gap until re- reading "Kabumpo" this time around. Nathan DeHoff: I took another look at the 4'/4 times his size passage, and I think you could be right in taking it to mean that Ruggedo was only foot high. (Actually, he'd have to be a little more than that, as Peg doesn't start from zero when she shoots up 4'. If she's a 12" or 18" doll, she winds up 5' or 5-1/2' expanded.) But two other possible meanings for the passage occur to me. One is that "size" in this kind of context might mean 3-dimensional size rather than height, and if she's 4 times bigger in cubic dimensions, his height might work out to around 3'. The other possibility is that when the narrative says "four times" it reflects Ruggedo's (emotional) estimate rather than am accurate measurement. Considering that she has Ruggedo at what sounds like 3' or 4' in "Gnome King" (as you mentioned), my guess would be that she was thinking of emotional (or maybe cubic) measurement here in "Kabumpo," and didn't really intend a 1'+ Ruggedo, even though interpreting "size" as "height" alone is certainly a possible reading. Michael Turniansky: The problem with "mah coal-black Lulu" is (as Nathan DeHoff and David Godwin commented) partly in describing a human as like a thing, and so making "Lulu" sound less than human (after all, the skin of a Black is really a dark brown, not a coal-black -- well, not an anthracite coal-black, although maybe a bituminous coal- black might come close). But there's also a rather larger problem in the dialect, which is not simply a (sort of) accurate transcription of the US southern dialect, but is also meant to imply an uneducated and/or stupid speaker, who speaks "incorrect" English, and the song thus implies that it takes somebody ignorant or stupid to love a Black woman. I think it was Joyce Odell, last time this topic came up, who commented that changing "coal-black" to "cross-eyed" doesn't really improve matters much, because the dialect is still there, with the implication that it takes somebody ignorant to love a woman with a physical defect. She suggested that a more purely nonsensical phrase, such as "mah true-blue Lulu," would have been funnier and also a better way of getting rid of the implicit group sneer. More on "mad as hops" -- I tried looking in the OED to see if there would be more there on this phrase, and there was. The OED thinks it was a jocular coinage, taking the meaning of "hopping mad" and re- doing it in the structure of the (much older) phrase, "thick as hops" -- which describes how the plant grows. Their citation of "mad as hops" is from 1884, so it was probably a popular usage when Baum was young. J.L. Bell: Interesting comment on Peg's overly servile approach to finding meaning in her life. Other magic doorknobs -- RPT used talking doorknobs in the Kingdom of Doorways in "Cowardly Lion," and Neill had the enchanted doorknobs that turn into flying gabooches in "Lucky Bucky." I can't think offhand of a well-known non-Oz book with magic doorknobs, but there are humans taking the form of doorknockers in Thackeray's "Rose and the Ring" and Dickens's "Christmas Carol" and Mary Norton's bedknob in "Bedknob and Broomsticks." A little known children's story is -- um, I don't remember title/author. I'll try to remember to look it up to add in a ps. A pleasant story about a girl who finds a magic castle. The castle had been over-run with goblins, and the goblins had been controlled by being turned into doorknobs, but as a result, getting doors open in the castle is a trifle difficult. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== From: "Doug Torrance" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-99 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:43:43 PDT Regarding Ozma's parentage: Does it ever say in the FF that Ozma is Pastoria's biological daughter? Or that she was given to (or taken by) Mombi as a baby? (I seem to recall that the latter was stated in a book, possibly _Land_ or _Dorothy/Wizard_) If neither of these notions are based on any other passages, it would seem like Snow's description in _Magical Mimics_ about Lurline's band dropping her off would be quite sufficient in explaining her life pre-Tip. Doug Torrance _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:45:37 -0500 Subject: Book about Oz From: "David F. Godwin" A few months ago, I briefly reviewed _The Wisdom of Oz_ and _The Zen of Oz_ in the Digest. Someone remarked that these were probably ³self-help² books. Actually, I have not found any books at all about Oz that I would call ³self-help.² If there were such a book, it would probably have forms to fill out, exercises to do, and so on. For example, it might advise you to meditate and assume the persona of the Tin Woodman, kind hearted, an expert carpenter, impervious to bees, etc. The books mentioned above and hereinafter are not that type of book. Instead, they look at Oz from a psychological and/or spiritual perspective. As an aside, I have to point out that, since Carl Jung, many, many people have tended to regard ³spiritual² and ³psychological² as synonymous. Freud tried to reduce spirituality to mere psychology, whereas Jung tried to elevate psychology to the status of spiritual experience. IMHO, however, they are not at all the same thing , despite the fact that there is a plethora of New Age books that equate the two. Anyway, here is a list of such books that I have stumbled upon in the past several months, along with capsule reviews. I believe all of them are available from amazon.com, and probably barnesandnoble.com as well, in case anyone is interested. Bousky, Samuel. _The Wizard of Oz Revealed_. Weed, Calif.: Writers Consortium, 1995. This book demonstrates nothing quite so well as the fact that (self-proclaimed) spiritual wisdom does not confer grammatical competence. Green, Joey. _The Zen of Oz: Ten Spiritual Lessons from Over the Rainbow._ Los Angeles: Renaissance Books, 1998. Glinda as Zen master. Morena, Gita Dorothy. _The Wisdom of Oz._ San Diego: Inner Connections Press, 1998. Honor your inner Munchkin. Nathanson, Paul. _Over the Rainbow: The Wizard of Oz as a Secular Myth of America._ Albany: State University of New York Press, 1991. The most scholarly of the books mentioned here - also the longest, dullest, and least readable. Concerns the film only. Stewart, Jesse. _Secrets of the Yellow Brick Road: A Map for the Modern Spiritual Journey._ Hygiene, Colo.: SunShine Press Publications, 1997. A Jungian tract: spiritual realization = ³individuation of the psyche.² In summary and conclusion, I have to cast a jaundiced eye on this whole collection. No doubt WWiz represents some sort of spiritual and/or psychological journey, but any attempt to analyze it from a particular viewpoint results mainly in farce. Incidentally, I have also heard that the book and film promote atheism; i.e., God is a humbug. "No one has ever seen the Wizard." "Then how do you know there is one?" OTOH, I suppose "Surrender, Dorothy" is an admonition to become a Muslim. - David G. ====================================================================== From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-23-99 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:48:19 PDT Ruth: >Gehan Cooray: I seem to recall that "The Elegant Elephant of Oz" was >one of the titles considered for it. I believe that _The Elegant Elephant of Oz_ was a proposed title for _Silver Princess_. Of course, it might have also been a proposed title for _Kabumpo_. Thompson could easily have suggested that title for every Kabumpo book, and had it rejected by Reilly and Lee every time. J. L. Bell: >David Godwin wrote: ><Curiouser and curiouser. This time I received the Digest twice.>> > >Obviously, you hadn't ain't seen nothin' yet. Probably a last symptom of >the changeover back to digests from Mindspring. I sent my comments to both Delphi and Mindspring, so that Dave would be sure to get them, and I think they ended up in the Digest about four times. >The marriage would >have been much more novel and therefore subversive if Peg had remained a >wooden doll, but Thompson (and perhaps we) wouldn't have accepted that. Perhaps this could bring us back to the "sex in Oz" discussion. If such a thing does exist, a wooden doll wouldn't be able to engage in it (especially since Cap'n Bill certainly didn't carve Peg to be entirely anatomically correct). Pajonia might never have been born if Peg had remained a doll. Then again, we can't really be sure of this, since the wooden Mr. and Mrs. Hi-Lo had a son. On a different note, however, an important theme throughout the Oz books is that one's natural form is the best. While there are exceptions (the Tin Woodman being one of the most famous examples), most of the protagonists in the series have been returned to their "proper" shapes, and Thompson might have wanted to continue this trend with Peg. >* A doorknob magically appears on page 36. In what other Oz book do >enchanted doorknobs play a role? Is there any other book in the known >universe besides these two that sees so much magic in doorknobs? The other book is, of course, _Lucky Bucky_. I'm not sure about other books seeing doorknobs as magical (_Cowardly Lion_'s Doorways contained plenty of doorknobs, but I don't think any of them were magical), but plenty of books have magical doors. >* Pompa and Peg are said to set up house on Sun Top Mountain, though we >next see them in PURPLE PRINCE at Pumperdink [291]. I was thinking of bringing up that same point, but you already did so. Perhaps their stay on the mountain wasn't as long as they had originally planned. Someone might be able to write a story around this. Note that Wag does not appear as a resident of Pumperdink in _Purple Prince_, so he might well have remained on the mountain. That's where _Who's Who_ places him, and where he begins his adventures in an unfinished manuscript of mine. (Maybe I should start working on that story again. I probably still have it around somewhere.) -- May the light shine upon thee, Nathan DinnerBell@tmbg.org http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5447/ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 May 99 08:30:09 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: with knobs on in Oz The book I was trying to remember is "Shadow Castle" by Marian Cockrell, ill. Olive Bailey, published 1945. I don't know of any other work by either the author or the artist. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 10:54:54 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-16 thru 23-99 I've had a writing deadline that's kept me from responding to non-urgent e-mail for the last week plus, but it's shipped off now and so I'm attacking the three Digests that have piled up in the interim. 5/16: Nathan: >Incidentally, in _Wonder City_, Professor Wogglebug refers to Ozma as "Ozma >the Great." Since "oz" means "great and good," isn't this title a bit >redundant? Technically it's redundant, but when two different languages are involved that sort of thing is fairly common; haven't you heard "the hoi polloi" ("hoi" being Greek for "the") or "shrimp scampi" ("scampi" being Italian for "shrimp"). >Speaking of slang, does anyone else find the Scarecrow's shout of "Yo, Wiz!" >(in _Ozoplaning_) to be a bit out of character? Where would he have picked >up that kind of speech? On the mean back streets of the Emerald City? Probably not; "yo" was in common use in small-town middle America in the Forties and Fifties, I know from personal experience, and stretching that back to '39 when _Ozoplaning_ was written doesn't seem improbable. It seems to have gone out of use sometime around the Sixties except in the ghetto; I'm not sure why. >> (There does seem to have been an Old Ozish language that may survive >>in some backwaters, but we know from >_Yellow Knight_ that some form of >>English has been spoken in Oz for at >least 700 years.) > >Unless the speech of the disenchanted Corumbians and Corabians was >translated by the land's magic. Well, yes, but that's true of Ozish in general; maybe the speech of everyone in Oz is translated by the land's magic, and no two people speak the same language. But if "language" means anything in Oz, then the disenchanted Corumbians and Corabians are speaking a slightly archaic version of English (though not, apparently, a form that was ever spoken by real Englishmen - certainly not English of 700 years ago, since that puts you back to a time when English was in transition from Anglo-Saxon to Middle English, and that English would be completely unintelligible to a speaker of modern English). Mike: >For you "how big is Oz" folks, I note that on the YBR, it takes a day's >journey to get from the Munchkin border of the green country to Emerald City >proper. Either Dorothy and her companions walked very slowly in _Wizard_ or the green area extends much farther east of the EC than it does north; it's only after he sees a sign saying "Nine miles to the Emerald City" that Tip notices the colors changing from purple to green. Nine miles from the EC to the Gillikin border is about right by the scale I've put on the Haff-Martin map. >I did not find the "Coal Black Lulu" song offensive in any but aesthetic >ways. What was the BOW version? As others said, "coal black" was changed to "cross-eyed." Personally, I think "corn-fed" would have been a better replacement, but nobody asked me... Gehan: >Well,ofcourse my word pronounciation and spellings are different to >Americans. Words like plant,class,cant and aunty are pronounced differently >in both SriLanka and America.For instance,colour is color in the states and >something like favourite is spelled as favorite. I dont know which should be >correct though Both are correct, in the sense that one is correct in the US and the other in the UK and its former possessions. Spelling is a matter of convention (especially in English, in which spelling and pronunciation aren't as closely related as in most languages), and any convention that is accepted by a large number of people is "correct" for that group. >Oz Poll: >Hey! I didnt receive any responses for my last poll:"Which version of Wizard >of Oz is better the movie or the book? Did you guys miss it? There was only >one vote..... That's a little like asking which way of traveling is better, a Lexus or a 747? If I'm traveling to London, the 747 is the obvious choice; if I'm traveling to downtown Chicago, a Lexus is equally obvious. The movie is a great movie; the book is a great book. Because I'm a lot more interested in books than movies, I prefer the book, but that doesn't mean it's "better." David G.: >Boy heroes: >The boy hero of the forties and fifties, Rick Brant, has been mentioned here >before. The adventures were written by someone calling himself "John >Blaine." I suppose it's not impossible that that was his real name. No, the author's real name was Hal Goodwin. I found this out courtesy of Ken Shepherd, who used to be a fairly active contributor to the Digest but who hasn't contributed anything in over a year, as far as I recall. I don't know if he's still receiving the Digest or not. Goodwin died in 1991. 5/21: Gehan: >Lisa is right! Betsy is by no way a cheap rip off of Dorothy. She has a >totally different character and a different spirit. She acts more mature >than Dorothy in -Tiktok-. Well, she should; she's presumably 2-3 years older in _Tik-Tok_ than Dorothy was in _Ozma_, and those are years of very rapid social development in kids. On the other hand, she doesn't have nearly as strong a personality as Dorothy. Dorothy is a natural leader; Betsy is a follower. Which is probably why there are a lot more books in which Dorothy is a main character. >_Scarecrow_ could have even taken place 10 years after _EC_ for all we know. No, it couldn't. Button-Bright is at least 4 in _Road_, and he's no more than 9 in _Scarecrow_, so there are no more than 5 years between those books. It could be argued that he spent some years knocking about the rest of Nonestica between _Sky Island_ and _Scarecrow_, but in that case Trot would have gotten older, and it seems in both books that Button-Bright is only a year or so younger than Trot. >Well,Coo-ee-oh never wanted to kidnap Ozma either. She didnt want a ransom >and so it cant be called kidnapping either. I think if you look into the legal definition of kidnapping you'll find that ransom isn't part of it. That's a common reason for kidnapping, but far from the only one. I think the legal definition is illegally detaining someone against their will; there may be more to it than that, but that's the core of it. And by that definition Coo-ee-oh definitely kidnapped Ozma and Dorothy. Of course, she would argue that since she was a sovereign ruler her detention of them wasn't illegal, therefore not kidnapping any more than it was kidnapping for Ojo to be jailed in PG. From Ozma's standpoint, though, she was kidnapped, because she didn't regard Coo-ee-oh as sovereign. Nathan: >After Ruggedo uses the Expanding Extract on Peg Amy, Thompson gives her >height as four feet, and later mentions that she is about four times Rug's >size. I think that both these mentions occur in the book, anyway. Four times Rug's size doesn't necessarily mean four times his height, though. Maybe it meant four times his volume, which would mean Rug was about 2.5 feet high - still small, but more reasonable. And since their proportions are different he might be even taller. >I do find it a bit odd that the title is _Kabumpo IN Oz_, even though >Kabumpo lives in Oz. Thompson's usual practice was to use "in" when the title doesn't lead with "The" and "of" when it doesn't. Thus we get Kabumpo, Grampa, Pirates, Ojo, Speedy, Captain Salt, and Handy Mandy in Oz, and "The" Royal Book, Cowardly Lion, Lost King, Hungry Tiger, Gnome King, Giant Horse, Yellow Knight, Purple Prince, and Wishing Horse of Oz. The two exceptions are Jack Pumpkinhead of Oz and The Silver Princess in Oz. (Ozoplaning is complicated; it doesn't start with "the," but it has a "the" before the noun "of Oz" modifies, so I think it follows the rule.) Note that Captain Salt never enters Oz in "Captain Salt in Oz," and the pirates and Speedy are each in Oz only briefly in their books. Conversely, "The Gnome King of Oz" sounds as if Rug has become king of Oz somehow, though he doesn't. John K.: >>This is getting more than slightly off subject, but I thought you might find >>it interesting that "Aslan" is a Turkish word meaning "lion". The correct >>pronunciation in Turkish is "uss-LUNN". >I believe Lewis intended to mean "Lion", but his reference, as I understand >it, was to Persian, not Turkish. (I don't know if he knew either language, >but I know he was a great admirer of Firdausi.) If Persian and Turkish, which are totally unrelated languages, use the same word for "lion," is it possible that both borrowed it from Arabic? Otherwise, I'd guess that Turkish might have borrowed it from Persian, since that was the older literate culture. David G.: >Does anyone else think, as I do, that the Sawhorse is often portrayed as a >disagreeable, hot-tempered, violent (and dangerous) creature? He is always >giving a vicious kick to creatures who just happen to irritate him a little, >such as Hank or the Woozy. The Ozites seem to like him well enough, but woe >to the animal who gets under his bark. I can't think offhand of any >instances in which he's kicked human beings, though. Apparently the Sawhorse's kicks aren't very painful; when the party is discussing how to deal with Ugu at one point in _Lost Princess_ Trot says, "Ugu's magic couldn't hurt the Sawhorse," and he replies, "And the Sawhorse couldn't hurt the Magician." Lots of duplicated and even triplicated posts in this Digest... 5/23: Larry: MMMo did have color plates in the original, which are available in the Dover edition if it's still in print. (They're all gathered in the center rather than occurring throughout the text, though.) I really like Frank VerBeck's illustrations; they're more like Denslow than Neill, and rather more grotesque even than Denslow in some cases, but they have a lot of charm. I have no idea whether BoW contemplates reprinting it, but I'd guess that if they haven't by now they probably don't intend to. Ruth: The use of "hop" to mean any kind of drug is probably the source of the phrase "hopped up" for "under the influence of a drug." As for "mad as hops," it's a phrase I've heard all my life, though I have no idea what its origin is. "Hopping mad" seems likely to derive from "hop" in the sense of jumping along on one foot, as in being so angry one feels like jumping up and down to show it. And "mad as hops" may be an extension of that. Wasn't Cooper's hero's last name spelled "Bumppo"? It's been a long time since I read those books, but that's how I remember it. They weren't required reading when I was in high school, but they were titles in the "Authors" deck. (Anybody else remember "Authors"? Do kids still play it?) J.L.: > Living with a famous scientist in the nation's largest metropolitan area >(and publishing center) might thus have been a common motif. Where did Tom >Swift originally live? I recall he had a wonderful flying machine--was his >father or other mentor an inventor? It's been a long time, but my recollection is that Tom Swift and his father (who was also an inventor) lived near Buffalo, or maybe Rochester - anyhow, on an estate near a fair-sized city in New York state on one of the Great Lakes. >Peg also seems to have received the servile attitudes that Ojo didn't give >Scraps. She expresses her affection for Kabumpo and Pompa by cleaning and >pinning up their robes. She thinks, "Perhaps I can help Pompa and maybe >that's why I was brought to life" [220]. Am I wrong to see a parallel >between this approach to finding a purpose in life and how young ladies >were told they should find young men to serve? I think you're exactly right. Peg is doing "women's work." Baum never has his female characters thus stereotyped as far as I recall (other than jokingly, when in EC the Wizard charges Dorothy with "cooking dinner"), and Thompson doesn't do it often - but she does with Peg, and she does with Mandy. >* A doorknob magically appears on page 36. In what other Oz book do >enchanted doorknobs play a role? Is there any other book in the known >universe besides these two that sees so much magic in doorknobs? The other Oz book with enchanted doorknobs is _Lucky Bucky_. As for another book, maybe not "so much" magic, but "Lewis Padgett"'s _The Fairy Chessmen_ opens with the line, "The doorknob opened a blue eye and winked at him." (At least, I think that's the book - one of the Kuttner/Moore "Padgett" books, anyhow. I could look it up if anyone cares.) >* Pompa and Peg are said to set up house on Sun Top Mountain, though we >next see them in PURPLE PRINCE at Pumperdink [291]. It's more logical that they live on Sun Top Mountain, since Peg is the ruler there and Pompa just the heir apparent in Pumperdink (and "heir apparent" in Oz can be a -very- long-term position). Maybe they were just visiting at the beginning of _Purple Prince_, though it's not explicit. Gehan: I don't think the _Kabumpo_ discussion has dwindled that much; people were still discussing it in some detail in the last Digest. Let's give it another couple of weeks. How about June 14 to start on _Cowardly Lion_? I find it hard to imagine why anyone would consider de-aging Ozma back to a baby would protect her. The only way I could think of it might help would be as a disguise, and it's clear that Mombi at least wasn't fooled. A teen-ager would surely have a better chance of evading enemies than an infant. I believe Ozma was born naturally to a fairy mother, but I believe she was born to an imprisoned mother not too long before Dorothy came to Oz. David Hulan ====================================================================== From: "Scott Olsen" Subject: Help defend Oz!! Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:41:03 -0700 Does anyone on the digest care to join the discussion to defend Baum and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz on the rec.arts.books.childrens newsgroup? I feel I'm all alone out here..... Thanks! Scott Olsen ====================================================================== From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:34:45 -0700 All, Our office is finally creating a firewall, and this will temporarily shut down access to my web page. After we get everything else up, we'll adjust my computer (probably with IIS 4) to once again allow you to peer into my head. This may take a few days. Thanks for your patience. Also, the address may change. We'll see. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, MAY 27 - 28, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] "AWOL" Digest Members: If anyone on the Digest knows how to contact these members, please notify them that their server is bouncing the Digest and not delivering it to them. If the bounces continue, they will be removed from my mailing list. ====================================================================== From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:35:42 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-26-99 Ruth: <> Boy, I was. I wanted the Wizard to figure something out, I guess, and was peeved when he washed out. LOL! Nathan: <> The flipside of that is used a lot throughout the series. Think how many ie's are based on the concept of people trying to make the wandering protagonists conform to local appearances and/or behavior: Dunkiton, Foxville, Torpedo Town, IllmiNation, etc., etc. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:07:45 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-26-99 As long as the "hopping mad/mad as hops" discussion is still burning, here is what Michael Quinion of "World Wide Words" has to say on the matter: > > I saw in "Patchwork Girl of Oz" (L. Frank Baum, 1913), the > > expression "mad as hops". Is that the forerunner of "hopping > > mad"? And what is so mad about hops (unless it is formented)? > > Can you shed any light these two expressions? > > It seems that there were a number of very old expressions using > the word "hops" in its sense of the plant. One was "as thick as > hops", referring to the dense mats of creeper you can get when > hops grows wild and unchecked, and "as fast as hops", because > the plant grows very fast each year. These were both known at > least by 1630. The expression "hopping mad" also dates from the > seventeenth century, and uses another sense of "hop", of jumping > up and down on one foot, in other words of being so angry that > one literally seems to be dancing. It seems that sometime in the > nineteenth century in the US somebody punned on these phrases to > create "as mad as hops", using "hops" in its other sense. The > expression is first recorded in _Harper's Magazine_ of 1884, but > is probably older. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael B Quinion Thornbury, Bristol, UK > World Wide Words: > Magic doorknobs: Both the cartoon versions of "Alice in Wonderland" (Disney) and "A Christmas Carol" (not the Mr. Magoo one) have talking doorknobs... Aslan, Turkish or Persian: According to http://www.aslanyouth.org/news/98_move.html "ASLAN is a real word in the Persian or Turkish language which means lion.", but since there are more than 3000 pages on the WWW which have both "Aslan" and "Turkish" and less than 300 that have "Aslan" with "Persian", "Iranian" or "Farsi", It seems to be closer linked with the former (at least in the world of WWW). It also appears to be a relatively common surname in that part of the world. It DEFINITELY is Turkish. see http://www.hazar.com/dictionary.html I cannot confirm or deny yet whether it is also Farsi. I have some native speakers in my son's preschool's staff. I shall ask them. --Mike "Korkak Aslan" Turniansky ====================================================================== From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 01:07:45 EDT Subject: Oz Doug T: No. It is never stated for a fact that Ozma is the biological daughter of Pastoria, but it seems likely from the hints in and around the FF, except for Snow's account, which is completely different from all other evidence. Mike and David Hulan: I refer you to the Ozzy Digest of Sep. 22, 1996, wherein Ken Shepherd noted that the party entered the green area on day 5 and EC on day 6. Davids Hulan and Goodwin: From the department of repetitive redundancy department... Ken Shepherd's last post to the Ozzy Digest was on Feb. 28, 1998. He used to do chronology's of the various Oz books. It's a shame that he never finished. David Hulan wrote: > I believe Ozma was born naturally to a fairy mother, > but I believe she was born to an imprisoned mother > not too long before Dorothy came to Oz. Ozma may have been born before the Wizard came to Oz, since her father was no longer in contact with anybody. Unless, of course, Ozma's mother carried her much longer than normal humans. WIth Ozma's comments in _Lost King_, she must have been active and about for many years before the Wizard arrived. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:02:12 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-26-99 Tyler: Thanks for your wonderful comments on my new Ozma theory. Its good to know that there ARE Digesters who like it. Doug Torrance: Well,its never really stated that she is Pastoria's BIOLOGICAL daughter. Jack Snow does say that Lurline let Pastoria adopt her but perhaps he said so to show the reason as to why Ozma was a fairy,yet her father wasn't. Nathan: _Silver Princess_ is a good title. But I dont think _Kabumpo_ sounds very nice,unless the reader knows who the title reffers to. Maybe Ruggedo sat on a rather giant doll chair in _Kabumpo_ or maybe he found a bit of magic to increase its size so that he could sit on it. He cant be just one foot tall anyway..... David(Hulan): >On the other hand, she doesn't have nearly as strong a personality >as Dorothy. Dorothy is a natural leader; Betsy is a follower. Which is >probably why there are a lot more books in which Dorothy is a main >character. I agree > > >_Scarecrow_ could have even taken place 10 years after _EC_ for all we know. > >No, it couldn't Well,I guess we have to look through the time events upto _Scarecrow_ to the point in which all four children come to live in Oz. We dont to bother from then on since theirs no difference in their aging process. However,we'll have to see through timelines between _Yellow Knight_ to _Speedy_(to see Speedy's age) and _Gnome King_ to _Pirates_(to see Peter's age). Speaking of Peter and Speedy,we also see that Thompson prefers boy heroes to girl heroes. She also favours her male characters more than the females. Actually,we cant say that Coo-ee-oh "kidnapped" Ozma,she just impriossoned her against her will. By the way,Ozma couldnt have been born while her mother was imprissoned by Mombi because she has faint memories of her life in Morrow and remembers the castle there in _Lost King_. The queen would have de-aged Ozma because Mombi will be looking for a teenager and not a baby princess. You do have a point though. Untill next time! --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:02:35 +1000 From: Gehan Cooray Subject: Oz Chat Room Hey Dave! Why dont we have a chatroom for the Ozzy Digest and have a scheduled chat atleast once aor twice a week? I'm sure it will be fun! What do you say? --Gehan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 May 99 10:14:53 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: The Beast in Oz David Godwin: You seem to have been using a lot of "special characters" in your recent quotes (curly close-quotes, open-quotes, and apostrophes, and something after your middle initial that translates to =7F). If convenient, it would be nice if you'd avoid using these characters, as several of us have machines that not only translate the special characters into =xx signs, but also translate a lot of what otherwise comes through as normal characters into = signs, and it makes the Digest a little difficult to read. // People who worry that having the Wizard turn out to be a humbug promotes atheism -- Hmmm. What it really promotes, of course, is scepticism and a habit of questioning claims to authority. Worrying that the story promotes atheism sounds rather like a way of trying to stifle questioners. J.L. Bell and Nathan DeHoff: The transformation of Peg into a "real" princess -- you've discussed the meanings of beauty as a (prejudiced) pre-requisite to marriage and as a preference for "natural" form. There's another meaning, too, though, which to some extent contradicts or at least undercuts the beauty-as-prerequisite meaning. Peg becomes beautiful, in terms of the literal narrative, because she gets disenchanted. But she becomes beautiful, also, because she is perceived as beautiful. The people one loves are beautiful, regardless of their physical appearance, and Peg's disenchantment is a sex-reversed version of such stories as "Beauty and the Beast" and "Riquet with the Tuft," with Pompadore as the Beauty and Peg as the Beast/Riquet. David Hulan: My favorite example of different-language-redundancy is Torpenhow Hill (Hillhillhill Hill). And the late Dean Warner Dickensheet used to enjoy translating his name to (Watchman Watchman Dike- Watchman). // I think you're right that the Deerstalker's name had two p's, as I've recently seen it spelled that way in other contexts. My memory insists that it was one p -- which I assume means simply that I spent a lot of time re-reading Oz books. (I did read "The Last of the Mohicans" in high school, but I think it was on a list of books to choose from, and was not a course requirement. I never re-read it or read any other Cooper.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:20:05 +0100 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 05-26-99 Ruth: >Nathan DeHoff: I took another look at the 4'/4 times his size passage, >and I think you could be right in taking it to mean that Ruggedo was >only foot high. (Actually, he'd have to be a little more than that, as >Peg doesn't start from zero when she shoots up 4'. If she's a 12" or >18" doll, she winds up 5' or 5-1/2' expanded.) Actually, now that I checked the passage myself, Thompson is explicit that Peg started as 10 inches high and shot up four feet, meaning that she was 4' 10" at the time she was four times Rug's size. If we take that as volume then we need Rug to be the cube root of 1/4 x 4'10" tall... or just over 3 feet. Doug: >Does it ever say in the FF that Ozma is Pastoria's biological daughter? Or >that she was given to (or taken by) Mombi as a baby? In _Land_ it's stated that the Wizard gave the baby Ozma to Mombi. I don't think it's ever explicit that Ozma is Pastoria's biological daughter; to say so would be to acknowledge sex in Oz, which isn't ever explicitly done as far as I can recall. It is stated that Ozma was born of a long line of fairy queens (in _Scarecrow_), which would seem to contradict Snow's statement that Lurline gave Pastoria a baby. On the other hand, Baum implies in _Magic_ that Ozma has been around since the beginning of time. MOPPeT is that the spirit of a member of Lurline's band - possibly her #2 - was infused into the child of Pastoria and his wife while she was in the womb, and that Pastoria's wife (Ozette or whoever; I don't like that name any more than I do Ozroar for Pastoria's father) was herself of part-fairy descent - though since full-blooded fairies are immortal, and the queen has never turned up (nor has her absence been remarked, oddly enough), she's probably not full-blooded. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:28:01 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: More on OZlan.... As promised, I check with the Persian speakers this morning. Lion in Farsi is (as near as I can transcribe it "Sheeh" The "SH" is "flat-tongued" sh of Krishna or the "X" in Chinese "Deng Xiao Ping" and the vowel is somewhere between that in "sheep" and "ship". "Aslan" is not meaningful in Farsi. --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:53:11 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: revising Oz charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks to Ruth Berman and David Hulan for responding to my question, "Is there any other book in the known universe besides these two [KABUMPO and LUCKY BUCKY] that sees so much magic in doorknobs?" I was impressed by how they could latch onto that opening and, with a bolt of inspiration, turn up other stories that hinge on knobs. Tyler Jones wrote: <> This remark unfortunately triggered one of my pet peeves. All history is revisionist! If a historian doesn't put together new evidence or interpretation that makes us see the past in new ways, she's not doing her job. "Revisionist history" has become a convenient catch phrase for folks who don't like what others reveal about our past. Rather than refute historians with actual evidence or argument, they try to dismiss them out of hand. By using the phrase "revisionist history," however, they reveal the weakness of their own historiographical understanding. Ruggedo's history in rocks isn't especially revisionist history; it's just bad history! Even Wag knows it's incomplete. Okay, I feel better now. Speaking of Ruggedo, Peg Amy's remark on first seeing him after she's been made Trot-size and brought to life looks like another clue to how big Thompson pictured him: "I could pick him up with one hand!" [127]. Tyler Jones wrote: <> One of the pitfalls of Ozma's concentrating power at the top--no one else is prepared to exercise it. [Wouldn't have happened if Jenny Jump were in town.] David Godwin wrote: <> If you want this type of self-help, narrowly defined, you need Vernon Crawford's FROM CONFUCIUS TO OZ (New York: Donald I. Fine, 1988). It has self-administered worksheets for grading oneself on wisdom, benevolence, and courage. Unfortunately, aside from the title and a few epigraphs, there are few explicit connections to Oz in the book. You might also look for the "Everything I Need to Know I Learned from THE WIZARD OF OZ" poster, quoting various homilies (from the movie only), if you really want Oz-based self-help. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 May 99 18:03:59 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZ CHRONOS: Tyler wrote: >Ken Shepherd's last post to the Ozzy Digest was on Feb. 28, 1998. He >used to do chronology's of the various Oz books. It's a shame that >he never finished. At least he did all of the Baum 14. "THAT CERTAIN AIR OF 'SAV-OR FAIRE' IN THE MERRY OLD LAND OF OZ": Does anyone have a citation for the later Reilly and Lee reprint of _Ozma of Oz_... The one featuring the infamous "Slinky Ozma" on the cover? -- Dave ======================================================================