] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 1 - 3, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== = From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:41:54 EDT Subject: Oz David: As someone else said (It was probably either Robin Olderman or Ruth Berman), the single largest source of disagreement on HACC chronology comes from the decision whether or not to accept non-FF books, and further whether those books can justify altering dates of occurence of the FF. For the most part, though, this tends only to affect the first 9 of the Baum 14. Center of the Center (or maybe not): ISTR the statement that EC is in the exact center of Oz several times. Of course, this does not mean that the green zone is necessarily centered in Oz as well. If Warren's research is correct (and it pretty much is), then the evidence from _Wizard_ is that the green is off-centered to the east a tad, placing EC in the western part of the green zone. For the most part, though, it's generally assumed that both are centered geometrically. Eric Shanower: Glad to hear that Oz Story 5 is out. What's your address? Tyler Jones ===================================================================== = From: "Jim Vander Noot" Subject: Ozzy Digest Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:05:02 -0400 charset="iso-8859-1" Importance: Normal Dave, I had written the Ozzy Digest a week or so ago to ask if anyone had an e-mail address for Marc Berezin. Checking the last couple digests, I didn't see my question posted, so I'm submitting it again. Thanks in advance! Jim Vander Noot Campbell Soup Company 856-342-6177 jim_vander_noot@campbellsoup.com or jvandernoot@home.com ===================================================================== = Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 08:56:22 -0500 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-30-99 > > ===================================================================== = > From: Pribis Steve > Subject: black and white? > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:00:26 -0400 > > We have a bet in our office. I say that the original version of Oz was black > and white in its entirety. Others in the office say that the Oz portion has > always been in color. Who wins? (We need an unbiased party to resolve the > bet.) Thanks for responding. Actually no-one wins. In fact, none of the original 1939 movie THE WIZARD OF OZ was in black and white. The Kansas scenes were in sepia color (that is shades of brown, earth tomes) and the scenes in Oz were in technicolor. I remember this from when I saw the movie in 1949--I was expecting a color film, and when it started it was all in browns. It was television that first changed the entire film into black and white, because there wasn't much color television when it was first shown on TV. Then, when, color TV was more available they showed the OZ scenes in color, but didn't return the Kansas scenes to sepia, because that would have been more expensive to broadcast. Of course, eventually all TV broadcasting became color, but the copies with black and white rather than sepia were available. It was not until the 50th anniversary of the movie in 1989 that the original sepia tone film became once more available. > This reminds me of a cartoon of chemists writing out the equations for > synthesizing a wonderful new product, with the middle step being: "THEN A > MIRACLE OCCURS." > I would point out that in 40-odd canonical Oz books there's no time > travel mentioned, but then I note Hungry Tiger Press has announced an Oz > novel by Edward Einhorn that depends on time travel. That book at least has > the honesty to include a Paradox. (It seems to be part parrot, part ox.) > THE COLORFUL KITTEN OF OZ, by Chris Dulabone contains time travel, and discusses Eureka's color changes, is still available from Chris. (BEOO19.) Illustrated by Melody Grandy. $10.00). 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop, Belen, NM Steve T. ===================================================================== = From: Tigerbooks@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:23:43 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-30-99 Dave Hulan wrote: Well, I was hired to edit the book to make it "of a magnitude better done than Neill showed any evidence of being capable of." So I guess I succeeded at the job, at least as far as you're concerned. The plot of the published book is essentially what Neill wrote, though I did a few nips and tucks (pun intended) in places to make it more unified. I retained as much of Neill's actual language as I could, although his prose style is nothing to write home about. I was far more concerned with retaining Neill's substance It was not my intention to change any of Neill's ideas or characters, but to make the book more readable. The one major change I made was to expand Jenny Jump's part in order to do what I could to restore the character to Neill's conception of her in his original Wonder City ms from the lobotomized hash the R&L editors made of her. The Ma of Ozma commented on her comparison of what she believes to be the original Runaway ms with the published version. I suspect that her "original" is the Fred Meyer/Robert Pattrick rewrite that had very limited distribution (it was later further rewritten by--I believe--Marcus Mebes and redistributed). I first read the Meyer/Pattrick version after I had completed work on Runaway. My reaction was mixed. I thought they solved some of the problems with the manuscript more cleverly than I had, but I was shocked to find that they'd cut off the second half of the ms and substituted something completely of their own devising. I also couldn't understand why they'd changed some of the new characters' names and genders, conflated other characters, and made changes seemingly only for the point of changing things--such as changing Gillikin to Quadling at one point. But one of the reasons I wondered what exactly you meant by your original statement of Runaway being more my book was that, given that, I wondered who you consider to be responsible for Wonder City. I did a quick comparison of it once with the WC ms and you have to get to chapter six or seven (it's been a while since I did the comparison) before you begin to read words that Neill actually wrote (concerning Jenny's discovery of the turnstyle--from chapter two, I think, of the ms), and even after that it's catch as catch can. The original ms of Wonder City is no great shakes, and I can see why R&L thought it needed work, but their editors seem not to have cared one whit for Neill's intentions (or for Oz as Baum and Thompson had established it) and the published book is no better than the ms and arguably a good deal worse. Yes, yes, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I was in effect hired to do the same thing to Runaway that R&L did to Wonder City--and I suppose someone might accuse me of destroying Runaway as much as they destroyed Wonder City. That's a risk I took with the job. But the claim I make for being better than R&L is that one of my major concerns was to preserve Neill's intentions in Runaway. I believe I succeeded, so I don't consider Runaway to be more my book than Neill's. Eric Shanower ===================================================================== = Received: from du53026.str.ptd.net (HELO cheerful.com) (204.186.53.26) by mail.ptd.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 1999 19:32:46 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:32:23 -0400 From: "Lisa M. Mastroberte" Subject: Replies "Pribis Steve" wrote: <> Hate to burst your bubble cutie, but you're going to lose that bet. The Kansas portion(s) have always been in black and white, or more adequately, sepia-tone, while the Oz portions have always been in color because they wanted to 1) show off Technicolor, and 2) also because they wanted to show the "glamor" of Oz, like it's described in the books. <> No, actually, I believe it wasn't very "beautiful", so to speak, in the first place before Lurline came. After all ... if it's a wasteland and Lurline is a fairy, she can really make the wasteland into a beautiful country. Peace! ~*Lisa*~ -- "Every man is the painter and sculptor of his own life." - S. John Chrysostom (+407) ===================================================================== = From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:47:56 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-30-99 Paved roads: Yes, they're easier to travel--but also more slippery. (Which is easier to travel in another sense, I suppose) Until next time, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/kivel99/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ===================================================================== = Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:12:22 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Ragbad RFD charset=ISO-8859-1 A hearty welcome back to David Hulan after his journey on: <> One of the great disappearing metaphors of the late 20th century! Another decade, and its origin may be as forgotten as that of "the whole nine yards." David Hulan wrote: <> I looked this up in LITERARY TERMS: A DICTIONARY, by Beckson and Ganz, to be sure I was thinking of it the right way. Their definition: picaresque narrative: an episodic depiction of the adventures of a picaro (Spanish: "rogue") or in English a "picaroon," whose knavery implicates him in imbroglios which take him from one social class to another. . . . A vehicle for satire, the picaresque narrative, generally presented in the first person, consists of unconnected episodes held together by the presence of the central character. It seems many Oz books share qualities of the picaresque story line--the unconnected episodes following a hero into different forms of society--without using the picaro narrator. Kiki Aru's adventures in the early chapters of MAGIC show a picaro in training, however. About the treatment of *pyrzqxgl* in GLASS CAT, David Hulan wrote: <> A good point, and always worth remembering in literary interpretation. [See remarks on Grampa and Ozian geography below.] I usually put more faith in statements by characters whom authors depict as knowledgeable, like this genie. But even there I don't necessarily assume they tell all the truth they know, as in my suspicions about Glinda. In this case, the underlying question was whether we can rely on Baum's warning not to say *pyrzqxgl* the right way as evidence that the word would work in our world. My doubt was based on this logical chain-- If Baum knew he wasn't giving readers the real magic word, whether or not he knew that word himself, then his warning in MAGIC is a joke. Thus, it has no value as a clue about whether *pyrzqxgl* would really work in the Outside World. If Baum knew he was giving readers a real magic word, his warning would both make logical sense and hint that *pyrzqxgl* truly can work in the Outside World. But the learned author of GLASS CAT seems to have written out that possibility, perhaps after inferring that Baum wouldn't really reveal such powerful magic to masses of children. Thus, Baum's warning makes sense only if he thought he was giving readers a real magic word but wasn't--and that would only occur if his information from folks in the Emerald City was wrong. There might have been transmission problems, and I don't put it past the Wizard to keep the word as Oz's "state secret." But in either case, whatever Baum wrote about the power of *pyrzqxgl* in the Outside World is dubious. He was working with incomplete or unreliable information. He obviously hadn't tested the word by transforming anything, even a pebble. I can imagine several scenarios in which "the word formerly known as *pyrzqxgl*" does work in the Outside World. I just don't think Baum's MAGIC remarks are enough to confirm that. Before he went all the way back to WIZARD, Warren Baldwin stated some cartographic concerns about GRAMPA. I paid extra attention to those lines while reading the book, and saw a couple of interesting patterns. First, Grampa pretty consistently uses cardinal directions even when Thompson makes clear his true destination lies at another compass point. Thus, the book places Ragbad near Jinxland [1/5], which Thompson knew from her TIK-TOK map is in a corner of Quadlingland, yet Grampa directs his party to march "to the North" to reach the Emerald City [3/23]. The ocean lies "far to the Northwest" of Oz [11/117], but Grampa has Bill lead the party back "East" [13/143]. Clearly, this is a case where we can't accept what a character says as reflecting the author's understanding. Second, and this is more speculative, I came to wonder if Thompson took a second look at her TIK-TOK map and reversed herself in the middle of writing GRAMPA. Ruth Berman pointed out that the first part of the book is mighty consistent: <> When Tatters's party hits the Nonestic, though, Thompson says that's "to the Northwest" of Oz, which is indeed where it appears on the TIK-TOK map (though it's in the upper right corner). When the crows cross the Deadly Desert going east, the first country they reach is the Winkies' [15/158], which is consistent with those directions but not the book's earlier description of Oz. GRAMPA is the first book in which Thompson made a firm statement that the Winkies are in the east of Oz, the Munchkins in the west. As David Hulan, <>. In COWARDLY LION the situation is ambiguous. Its capsule description of Oz is correct (Winkies in west), but its placement of Mudge in Munchkinland's southwest corner implies that Thompson had started off the wrong way. Perhaps she made the same reversal while writing GRAMPA. GRAMPA is the first novel Thompson starts in the south of Oz, and I wonder if she was influenced by literary depictions of the American South. In CAVALIER AND YANKEE, Prof. William R. Taylor traces a cliche picture of Southern plantations in American novels, going back a century before GRAMPA. Among the repeated themes of this tradition: * "the ruin of a once prosperous and respected family," as George Tucker wrote in VALLEY OF THE SHENANDOAH (1824). Taylor states, "Scarcely a single novel omits the opportunity of describing a ruined plantation house and the desolation which surrounds it." * agricultural depression. Taylor says, "To a very considerable extent their [the first generation of Virginian novelists'] works reflect the results of the prolonged rural depression which struck the eastern counties soon after 1800 and continued to wear away at their prosperity for close to thirty years." Later books in the tradition blamed overplanting or the Civil War/Reconstruction, as in the 20th century's most famous example, GONE WITH THE WIND. In the 1920s, when Thompson was writing, the villain in Southern agriculture was the boll weevil eating the cotton crops. * the flawed plantation master. "If the planter is not a spendthrift, a gambler or a dueler," Taylor reports, "he is often the dupe of his overseer or the victim of a confidence scheme. . . . Often he has died before the story opens and exists only as a memory." * the noble plantation mistress. "The real focus of fictional plantation life was not the planter but his wife," writes Taylor. In SOCIAL LIFE IN OLD VIRGINIA BEFORE THE WAR (1897) Thomas Nelson Page claimed the planter's wife was "the most important personage about the home, the presence which pervaded the mansion, the centre of all that life, the queen of that realm. . . . mistress, manager, doctor, nurse, counsellor, seamstress." * satirical parallels to European aristocracy. John Pendleton Kennedy's SWALLOW BARN (1834) contains chapters titled "Knight Errantry," "A Joust at Utterance," and "The Last Minstrel," for example. I see all these reflected in how Thompson pictures Ragbad in chapter 1 of GRAMPA. "At one time, all the dress goods in Oz had been grown in the gardens of Ragbad," but "affairs in the kingdom had gone from bad to worse." The castle has a cracked window, a hole in the roof, and a frayed bell cord. Ragbad's crops are failing: "The cotton fields and calico bushes, the chintz and tapis trees,...ran perfectly wild and yielded--instead of fine bolts of material--nothing but shreds, tatters, and rags." Except for one mention of linen, all the cloths Thompson mentions--chintz, gingham, lawn, calico--are forms of cotton. The only other familiar agricultural product mentioned in this chapter is also a Southern staple: "a tobacco leaf." The root of this planting problem? "When Fumbo came to the throne, he began to spend so much time reading and so much money for books and tobacco that he soon emptied the treasury." All he's saved for a rainy day is an umbrella. Soon the spendthrift monarch loses his head, a symbolic death. Queen Sew-and-Sew has been holding the realm together by becoming a full-time seamstress: "with all her sewing she had barely been able to keep the kingdom from falling to pieces." Finally, though Ragbad maintains most of the terminology of a kingdom (as in Kennedy's satire), in fact it's shrunk to be more like a plantation. The population outside the castle is only "the Redsmith, the Miller, the Baker and twenty-four rustic laborers" with their wives and children. In KABUMPO Thompson started off in Pumperdink, the setting for "a good old-fashioned royal family." The little southern realm at the start of GRAMPA doesn't fit that trope. Instead, she seems to have a different familiar setting in mind. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ===================================================================== = Date: Sun, 03 Oct 99 13:34:48 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Question: Whenever _Wizard of Oz_ is shown on TV, the instant before Dorothy opens the door into Oz, everything looks brownish and there is detectable color in Dorothy's dress. Since I was a tot my dad has said this was because when it is shown on TV they have to use a color filter so that the effect is spoiled, but that on the big screen it looks like a very smooth and spectacular transition from sepia to technicolor. For those who have seen _Wizard_ in the theatre, is this true? There seems to still be a lot of steam in the _Grampa_ discussions still, but you all might want to start thinking about getting hold of _Lost King_ pretty soon... Still waiting for someone to offer help/feedback on the "Oz on the Internet" panel discussion... -- Dave ===================================================================== = To: Dave Hardenbrook From: Ozzy Digest Subject: Ozzy Digest, 10-06-99 Cc: Bcc: Ozzy_Digest_Members X-Attachments: In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991006122230.024cc650@pop.mindspring.com> X-Persona: ===================================================================== = ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 4 - 6, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== = From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:50:32 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-03-99 In a message dated 10/3/99 8:26:05 PM Central Daylight Time, OzDigest@mindspring.com writes: << From Eric Shanower: The Ma of Ozma commented on her comparison of what she believes to be the original Runaway ms with the published version. I suspect that her "original" is the Fred Meyer/Robert Pattrick rewrite that had very limited distribution >> Yes, I've read that, but I've also read the Neil original. I wasn't really impressed with either version. --Robin ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:36:22 -0500 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Digest From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Question: Whenever _Wizard of Oz_ is shown on TV, the instant before Dorothy opens the door into Oz, everything looks brownish and there is detectable color in Dorothy's dress. Since I was a tot my dad has said this was because when it is shown on TV they have to use a color filter so that the effect is spoiled, but that on the big screen it looks like a very smooth and spectacular transition from sepia to technicolor. For those who have seen _Wizard_ in the theatre, is this true? Having the good fortune to have seen the Movie in 1949, I will agree that there was no such disjunction in the original movie. The problem began when the Kansas scenes were shown in black and white. The moment when Dorothy opems the door into Munchkinland is the only spot in the version shown in television in which the original sepia tones can be seen. The newer video releases of the movie show the Kansas scenes in sepia which restores the original wonder of the door opening shot. Steve T. ===================================================================== = From: "Weisberg, Larry" Subject: RE: Dirk Gringhuis Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:53:37 -0700 Return-Receipt-To: "Weisberg, Larry" charset="windows-1252" Please run this submission in the next Ozzy Digest: Hey gang! I received this request and was wondering if anyone out there might be able to shed some light on it: I inherited a set of 4 framed hand colored prints (11" x 13") by Dirk Gringhuis. They appear to be the illustrated history of "private uniforms" worn by the army at Fort Michilimackinac. 1763 (Fort Michilimackinac) Private British 60th Regiment of Foot/ Royal Americans 1775 (Fort Michilimackinac) Private British 8th Regiment of Foot/King's 8th 1796 (Fort Mackinac) Private of Infantry 1st Sublegion, Wayne's Legion 1812 (Fort Mackinac) Private American 1st Regiment of Artillery I hope you can shed some light on these nicely colored prints. All appear to be "dress uniforms". Did he illustrate any text books? Or maybe Fort Mackinac or the "army" was a hobby? If anyone has any info on these or on Dirk Gringhuis, please let me know. Thanks in advance for all of your help! Ozzily yours... Larry Weisberg ldweisberg@geocities.com )|( (o o) --------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------------------- ------- "Welcome to Oz" http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/2525 Also consider visiting "WEISBERG on the WEB" http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6188 ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 4 Oct 99 11:21:01 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: b&w in oz David Hulan: Baum wasn't entirely consistent in his east/westness of Oz. Besides the snarked maps you mention, Michael Riley (in "Oz and Beyond") discusses a couple of east-Winkie references in "Road" and "Emerald City." He thinks that Baum had been thinking originally of Oz as somewhere in the Great American Desert, and east as the "near" side, and when he moved from Chicago to California the change in the "near" side maybe confused his sense of which was "east." // Another benefit to paving roads is that during the rainy season a paved road won't develop potholes big enough to drown the unwary horse and rider, as medieval English roads occasionally did. Steve Pribis: Your bet on whether the original version of Oz was black and white in its entirety or whether the Oz portion had always been in color -- well, if the bet specified the 1939 MGM "Wizard of Oz," then the Oz portion of the movie was indeed always in color. There were a couple of movie versions of the book that came out before color film was available, and they were all-b&w, of course. The best known is one with Oliver Hardy (of Laurel and Hardy fame) as the Tin Woodman and Larry Semon as the Scarecrow. This is available in a videotape version. L. Frank Baum (the author of "The Wizard of Oz") himself filmed a version, titled "The Scarecrow of Oz," and also wrote a new Oz book titled "The Scarecrow of Oz" based on the movie. // Incidentally, for a gorgeous original color version, take a look at the book "The Wizard of Oz." Baum and his illustrator W.W. Denslow worked closely together to integrate text and color in the first edition, and a facsimile edition (published by William Morrow/Books of Wonder) came out a few years ago -- a bookstore could order it for you. J. L. Bell: Yes, the verses of "Forgetful Poet" as a character in RPT's "For Boys and Girls" page were presented as puzzles for readers to solve. The reason why Percy never considers aspiring to win the princess himself -- your "too little like a prince" suggestion seems the most likely in terms of the plot. But "too old" or "implicitly gay" seem like possibilities, too. // Ragbad as a "decayed southern estate" -- does sound like a possible influence. Ruth Berman ===================================================================== = From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:44:59 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-03-99 <> Speaking of which, what is the origin of "the whole nine yards"? GLASS CAT: One of the most commonly-heard expressions among lice is that "Creatures that live on glass cats shouldn't throw stones." Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/kivel99/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ===================================================================== = Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:07:14 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24 thru 10-3-99 Three more Digests to respond to - no good reason, just that I got out of the habit of prompt response while on vacation. 9/24: Warren: > Chapter 11. Day 6. The group starts off at sunup, still walking west >presumably, and "soon" sees the glow of the E.C. Must be a pretty powerful >glow that they can see it in broad daylight, even with the sun at their >backs. I would assume that the "glow" was the light reflecting from the emeralds that are found throughout the city, in which case the daylight would enhance it rather than drowning it out. >Using relative >units corresponding to a day's travel on foot, the distance from the E.C. >to the southern border is 3. Well, maybe. Remember that a portion of the journey was done via Winged Monkey Express, which we know is far faster than walking. (They carried Dorothy and company back to the EC in a few hours, covering a distance that had taken them several days to walk.) The book says only that the monkeys took them "over the hill," but it might easily have been the equivalent of a day's walk. For that reason I don't think you can get an accurate estimate of the aspect ratio of Oz from the available information in _Wizard_. But I appreciate the work you've put into analyzing travel times. >For aesthetic reasons and >reasons of orthodoxy, we will further assume that it is a rectangle, >although it could just as well be circular or elliptical. In _Wizard_ it could be, but later books frequently refer to Oz as "oblong," or rectangular; it's not just "orthodoxy." Nathan: > >Later in the FF, there will a green mountain in the Quadling Country. > >The Wizard (I think) clearly states that the mountain was decorated with >vegetation from the Emerald City territory, though. True, but then Monday Mountain might have been decorated with vegetation from the Munchkin Country as well. J.L.: >* The main villain doesn't come from nowhere, either. Glegg doesn't exactly come from nowhere. It's true that unlike Gorba/Abrog, he doesn't appear on stage until almost the end, but we don't (officially) know that Gorba and Abrog are the same person until the end, either, and Glegg's Box of Mixed Magic is essentially the same kind of _deus ex machina_ in _Kabumpo_ that Gorba's magic potion is in _Grampa_. << The only >important thing that happened during those two days was that Tatters and >Urtha fell in love.>> > >Which, we must admit, is a very important thing in a romance. Yes, but my point was that they'd presumably have done that even if they'd just been walking along the Yellow Brick Road, as opposed to falling into fire country, riding a volcano, killing a dragon, floating on an ice floe, and turning into crows. None of those adventures were relevant to the main line of the story - though I'll admit that I hadn't thought of Rich's analysis that made Tatters' meetings with princesses of fire and water significant. I admire your poetic prophecy later on in the Digest, by the way! Robin: >To David Hulan: "You're thinking too modestly--try for all three prizes >in a calendar year!" Hmmmmmm. David? Wanna go for it? I'll try >for it if you will! :o) Sure, sounds like fun to me! Do you think you can make all three regionals in 2001? (I didn't want to compete again in the Ozmopolitan if I'd be competing only against people who'd never won, but if you - and any others who might care to - would compete as well, then sure.) Eric K.: >What became the Tin Man's "name"? Not sure what you mean - the movie never gave it, but then I don't believe the book of _Wizard_ did either. I think "Nick Chopper" was introduced in the stage play and then used in _Land_ and subsequent books, though it might just have been introduced in _Land_. 9/30: David M.: >And if you haven't ordered yet, what are you waiting for? You might give ordering information for the benefit of those Digest subscribers who don't have it already. (I do, but there may be others who'd be interested and don't.) Tyler: I concur with your ideas about Lurline's spell and its effects. Regarding Dorothy's referring to the green area as "The Land of Oz," it's also interesting to note that in _Land_ the references to the Wizard, the Scarecrow, Pastoria, and Ozma all refer to their ruling "the Emerald City," and not "the Land of Oz." There seems to be a definite implication that the Tin Woodman and Glinda are independent rulers of the Winkies and Quadlings respectively, and in no way subordinate to the Scarecrow. It's only in _Ozma_ that Ozma appears to have become the supreme ruler of the whole area encompassed by the Deadly Desert. Bill in Ozlo: I believe that Baum lived at several addresses in Chicago, moving to more comfortable quarters as his literary success grew. But I don't know any of them. Ruth: I haven't gone through all 40 Oz books in detail on travel times, but it's something that I've kept an eye on as I've reread the books repeatedly. To put it mildly, there are serious inconsistencies, although the majority of the journeys are reasonably consistent with the 90 x 120 mile dimensions that fit with Thompson's numerical example in _Wishing Horse_ (if you assume a 4x3 aspect ratio). But both _Ozma_ and _Road_ seem to imply a much smaller Oz, as do all of Neill's books. J.L.: Several of the Buckethead Oz books include time travel - including, if I recall aright, one of Jeremy's. I didn't find Bill annoying, but I did Percy. (Pick one - I didn't care for the other Ozian Percy, the rat of _Hidden Valley_, either.) Tatters and Urtha aren't among Thompson's best original juvenile characters, but they're better than most in her early books. Peg Amy is an exception, but otherwise I don't like most of her juveniles much until Speedy and Marygolden come along in _Yellow Knight_. 10/3: Eric S.: As I said in my last post, I probably overstated what I meant when I said _Runaway_ was "much more [your] book than Neill's." I meant that the aspects of it that made it the best "Neill" book were attributable to you rather than to Neill. You're a much better prose stylist than whoever was responsible for the final prose in the Neill books, which makes _Runaway_ the most readable of the four, but the plot is more episodic and less integrated than _Lucky Bucky_'s. (As always, IMHO.) Lisa: As to whether Oz was always beautiful, I suppose it depends on how much credence you give Snow. Baum did say in _Tin Woodman_ that before Lurline's enchantment Oz was "much like other lands," but Snow says in _Magical Mimics_ that it was "remarkably beautiful" even before the enchantment, and that in fact that was what led Lurline to enchant it in the first place. There may be other references to that aspect of Ozian prehistory in other books; Tyler is probably more expert on that than I am. (I know that's a particular interest of his.) J.L.: Interesting parallels between Ragbad and a Southern plantation. I rather doubt that Thompson has any such idea in mind consciously, but it might well have been a subconscious influence. David Hulan ===================================================================== = Date: Wed, 6 Oct 99 09:00:53 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: oz in chicago Bill Wright asked where the Baums lived in Chicago. According to "To Please a Child," in 1891 they bought a house (no longer there) at 34 Campbell Park (now 2233); in 1895 they moved to 120 Flournoy Street (now 2149); a few years later (1898?) to 68 Humboldt (now 1667); in 1903 to 3726 Forest Ave (now Giles Ave); and in 1907 to an apartment at 5243 South Michigan Ave. By then they were wintering in California, and in 1910 they moved to California. Ruth Berman ===================================================================== = To: Dave Hardenbrook From: Ozzy Digest Subject: Ozzy Digest, 10-11-99 Cc: Bcc: Ozzy_Digest_Members X-Attachments: In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991011171840.02b4af00@pop.mindspring.com> X-Persona: ===================================================================== = ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 7 - 11, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Yes, there is a Digest today, even though it's a bank holiday. ( No banks in Oz. :) ) ===================================================================== = From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:34:17 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-06-99 In a message dated 10/6/99 2:33:01 PM Central Daylight Time, OzDigest@mindspring.com writes: David Hulan, Re: Oz quizzing << Sure, sounds like fun to me! Do you think you can make all three regionals in 2001? (I didn't want to compete again in the Ozmopolitan if I'd be competing only against people who'd never won, but if you - and any others who might care to - would compete as well, then sure.)>> Euwww! Three? Nasty thought, but I guess I could. They could always go into the next _Oz Game Book_, if we ever get 'round to doing one. ===================================================================== = From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-06-99 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:52:37 PDT Ruth: >L. Frank Baum (the author of "The Wizard >of Oz") himself filmed a version, titled "The Scarecrow of Oz," and also >wrote a new Oz book titled "The Scarecrow of Oz" based on the movie. I think the film originally known as "His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz" was billed as "The New Wizard of Oz," or something like that. This movie was the source of much of the plot for _Scarecrow_ (the book), but it was different from the original "Wizard of Oz" movie made by Baum. David Hulan: >Eric K.: > >What became the Tin Man's "name"? > >Not sure what you mean - the movie never gave it, but then I don't believe >the book of _Wizard_ did either. I think "Nick Chopper" was introduced in >the stage play and then used in _Land_ and subsequent books, though it >might just have been introduced in _Land_. I'm pretty sure it was used in the play, and that (in the play, at least) "Nick" was short for "Niccolo." There was a song in the production called "Niccolo's Piccolo." Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ===================================================================== = From: Rhettlion@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:05:47 EDT Subject: Ozzy Digest Hello all, I wanted to start off by letting all the regular posters know that I have enjoyed "lurking" for the last year or so. I find that I do not normally have any new or interesting thoughts to share with the group so I lurk mostly for my own fun. I know that there were some comments made recently about why more people do not share their thoughts and I can only speak for myself. I do not feel myself a part of the "out" group. I just find that the regular posters have much more knowledge than I do and take Oz much more seriously. So, I read quietly and learn from all of you. I just wish the Wogglebug would ship me a bottle of his pills on Oz history:). I do have a couple of questions that I was hoping someone could answer for me. There are several RPT books that have been issued by Books of Wonder that I can only find in softback editions. One example would be "The Silver Princess of Oz". Are there any plans for these books to be issued in the beautiful hard back editions that Mr Glassman is responsible for producing? Secondly, I was wondering if anyone has purchased the new "100 Years of Oz" book that John Fricke helped to create. If someone could comment on the merits of the book and the extent of the individual collection highlighted versus other collections I would find that very interesting. Third, and lastly, I was wondering if anyone in the Philadelphia area has ever done a "house tour" of RPT's homes. I was curious if it could be accomplished in a day and if any of the original structures still stand. It would be fascinating to see if her environment influenced her vision of Oz as realized by her choices for homes. I just moved to Philly so I am considering doing this for fun. Hope all is well with you. Yours, Glen Cleveland ===================================================================== = From: Tigerbooks@aol.com Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:42:59 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-06-99 Larry Weisberg writes > I hope you can shed some light on these nicely colored prints. All > appear to be "dress uniforms". Did he illustrate any text books? Or > maybe Fort Mackinac or the "army" was a hobby? These drawings seem likely to have been for the book THE BIG DIG--A FRONTIER FORT COMES TO LIFE by Dirk Gringhuis. I don't have a copy of that book, just an ad for it in another of Dirk's books. The ad copy says: "The detective work necessary to reconstruct the fort (Michilimackinac) as it had originally appeared makes stimulating reading..." --The New York Times The publisher was Dial Junior Books. The pub date of the book containing the ad is 1963, so THE BIG DIG would probably have been published sometime within 1960-63. Dirk illustrated many different kinds of books. From what I can tell, HIDDEN VALLEY was uncharacteristic for him. He did a lot of non-fiction--animals and military uniforms seem to have been popular with him. Dave Hulan wrote to Eric K.: I think "Nick Chopper" was introduced in the stage play and then used in _Land_ and subsequent books, though it might just have been introduced in _Land_. Nick's name in the 1903 WIZARD musical was Niccolo Chopper--sometimes called Nic. Baum finalized it as Nick Chopper in LAND. Dave Hulan also wrote regarding OZ-STORY 5: You might give ordering information for the benefit of those Digest subscribers who don't have it already. (I do, but there may be others who'd be interested and don't.) Well, we didn't want to post an advertisement to the Ozzy Digest since I recall some trouble about that in the past. I figured that anyone interested could e-mail for further info since the e-mail address is on the posting. But, since you ask, here's the info: OZ-STORY 5 is available for $14.95 plus shipping and handling in USA of $3.50 for first book, $1.00 for each additional book (outside USA $5.50 for first book, $1.00 each additional). Make check or money order out to Hungry Tiger Press, 1516 Cypress Ave., San Diego, CA 92103. CA residents add 7.75% sales tax. If you'd like more info, e-mail us at Tigerbooks@aol.com and ask either for our e-mail catalog or real mail catalog. Eric Shanower ===================================================================== = Received: from [134.84.45.28] by amethyst.tc.umn.edu for ozdigest@mindspring.com; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:23:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 99 08:16:05 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: mackinack in oz Larry Weisberg: I don't know that specific set of prints, but Kirk Gringuis did a lot of work for Fort Michilmackinac. If you drop a note to the Mackinack Island State Park Commission (Mackinack Island, MI), they might be able to tell you what project was represented by your prints. Probably not a text book, but more likely something offered for sale by the State Park or by the Fort as a souvenir. Ruth Berman ===================================================================== = Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:37:26 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: GRAMPA is smokin'! charset=ISO-8859-1 Fans of the 1902 WIZARD OF OZ musical know that it replaced Dorothy's little dog Toto with Imogene the Cow, who was easier to portray. A canine Toto had appeared on the New York stage three years earlier, however. The burlesque HELTER-SKELTER, produced by and starring the comedy team of Weber & Fields, included a big role for Toto, an oversized French poodle played by Richard Garnella. Could this spring 1899 show have given Baum the idea for Toto's name? Probably not, despite his stage-struck ways. Weber & Fields didn't send their company to Chicago until 1902. The two Totos probably had a common source in earlier pop culture. Weber & Fields did have a vital influence on Baum's career, however, and vice versa. Their director of dance numbers and spectacles, Julian Mitchell, stayed in Chicago in the summer of 1902 and ended up staging WIZARD. When it became a hit, Mitchell wanted to bring the show to New York, where Weber & Fields had him under exclusive contract. Joe Weber refused to bend that agreement. Lew Fields was more amenable. In December, Mitchell walked out on the partners and commissioned BABES IN TOYLAND from Victor Herbert. Weber & Fields had been famously friendly, but the time from this first disagreement to the end of their business partnership was less than two years. [The source for all this is Armond & L. Marc Fields, FROM THE BOWERY TO BROADWAY: LEW FIELDS AND THE ROOTS OF AMERICAN POPULAR THEATER (NY: Oxford UP, 1993). The book has a terrible index, so here are the relevant pages: 134, 149, 184, 192, 522.] Also from my reading on influential late-19th-century comedy teams [don't ask] is this description of a comic army in Charles Hoyt's play A MILK WHITE FLAG: "wholly made up of officers, except for a solitary enlisted man who was the janitor of the regiment's armory." Sound familiar? Hoyt flourished in New York in the 1870s and 1880s, about the time of Baum's dramatic ventures. His musical farce A TRIP TO CHINATOWN was also the last show Julian Mitchell directed before Weber & Fields hired him. [The army description comes from E. J. Kahn, Jr., THE MERRY PARTNERS: THE AGE AND STAGE OF HARRIGAN AND HART (NY: Random House, 1955). No index at all! Page 84.] Jeremy Steadman asked: <> It's forgotten. Folklorists argue over various possible sources: football, cement mixers, coal bins. Ruth Berman wrote: <> Silent-movie scholars would insist the prints were tinted different colors to indicate the scenes' moods, time of day, etc. And on to this message's GRAMPA thoughts. First, thanks to Ruth Berman for the news about Percy the puzzler. A long while back, Gehan Cooray wrote: <> I'm hoping to understand your criteria for Ozziness, and how you're drawing a line between the story and the plot lines. David Hulan wrote: <> No, but we do have the clues of their names and the wizard's false whiskers. Those aren't giveaways, but when we look back we can see how GRAMPA's twists do fit together. They don't seem as arbitrary as in KABUMPO's. In that book the heroes have the dumb luck to be right in assuming that J.G. and Glegg are the same person; Trot has the dumb luck to give her doll the same name it had as a princess; a wizard manages to hide his magic right under Ozma's palace, though he's in love with a princess in the Winkie Country; and on and on. Has it been mentioned how Peg Amy's and Urtha's enchantments resemble each other? In both books an evil magic-worker tries to turn a princess into something natural but mute, only to be foiled when she takes human shape and is then brought to life. One interesting theme of GRAMPA is anti-tobacco. As I quoted earlier, Fumbo's two expenses driving Ragbad into ruin are books and tobacco [1/4]. The bandits use tobacco to keep people captive [4/39, 15/160-1]. But the character most obviously addicted to nicotine is Grampa. Thompson explicitly says taking snuff is one of his two bad habits [3/24], and even introduces him "trembling like a tobacco leaf" [1/4]. He owns 75 pipes, "and deciding which of these to carry with him took longer than all of his other preparations" [2/18]. Grampa doesn't just smoke tobacco. He *needs* to smoke. When the house plant berry has enchanted him, all he can think of is, "Give me my pipe"--which makes fumes come out his chimney [7/65-6]. Having finally lulled the bandits to sleep, he nevertheless pauses to steal Vaga's tobacco, though he must do it "very carefully" [4/37]. On miraculously getting back to Oz, Grampa still has reason to complain: "The mischief, boys! I've lost my pipe!" [15/160] For the rest of the book he's on a quest for "a couple of new pipes" [15/170], even trying a bubble pipe [18/194], which he seems to ruin [19/207]. Grampa's "happiness was complete" only after Peer Haps has given him a pipe he can really smoke [21/221]. Contrast Thompson's portrait to how Baum showed Trot taking comfort in Cap'n Bill's smoking in SCARECROW and other books. If Grampa was indeed based on Thompson's "Uncle Billy," I wonder if she'd seen the old man's grumpier side when he couldn't smoke. Smoking of a sort does produce the nicest metaphor in the book. While Grampa has pipes on his mind, he says, "I wouldn't trust a prophet as far as I could swing a chimney by the smoke" [17/184]. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ===================================================================== = Received: by pm1s29.plvwtelco.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BF133C.327BC180@pm1s29.plvwtelco.net>; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:26:25 -0500 From: "Warren H. Baldwin" Subject: Responses Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:24:17 -0500 Gosh, I don't know what started this recent renaissance on the Digest, but whatever it was, the results are worth it. It does make it somewhat difficult to respond in a timely manner, though, so some of these comments are going to be badly dated. C'est la vie. 9/18 Shaggy Darn it, Shaggy, you beat me to it. I was going to bring this up later. Actually, it's my secret conviction that Oz is a Moebius monarchy situated on a Klein continent. The deadly desert itself is a Moebius strip whose two-dimensional surface twists into the third dimension at the edges. The third dimension is necessary, of course, in order to make the plane endless. This is why no one can reach Oz by land over the desert (except by magic). Even if one blunders onto the sands at the point where the twist begins, you can never get off again. All those supposedly destroyed people who have disappeared are still there; they're just wandering around endlessly. This is what happened to Amelia Earhart. Must be quite a community there by now. They're bound to meet one another occasionally, and I imagine it would be fascinating to eavesdrop on a round-table between Amelia, Judge Crater, and the man who walked around the horses. Oh, yeah, that's also why you see a shimmer when you look out over the sands: it's not the heat, it's the infinity. 9/24 Robin: No, the first problem for me was the analysis of _Grampa_. _Then_, when I looked at the map, the problem was compounded no end. Since Geozify and Geozify2, I've discovered that the reversed Winkie/Munchkin scheme is used in several Thompson books. I can well believe that Haff and Martin had problems in geographical placement. In fact, in order to make things fit in some logical scheme I'd think one would have to make so many slithy assumptions that it would cast serious doubt on _any_ conclusions. I'm wondering whether the best solution to the dichotomy isn't also the easiest and the most direct: to simply acknowledge that the two views are different and exclusive. In other words, _we just have two maps_: The Oz of L. Frank Baum and The Oz of Ruth Plumly Thompson. As an Oz fan of long standing (and long sitting -- and the "long" I'll admit is only as long as a piece of string) I would find no quarrel with this at all; both worlds are enjoyable to me. Enough of this War of the Worlds, I say. Let us have peace for all time, merrily, a piece of each. Huzzah! 9/30 D. Hulan A possibility. I prefer evidence to speculation. On the other hand, I'm literarily athletic: a great conclusion-jumper. And it _is_ explicitly stated in one of the Thompson books, and perhaps in others as well, that the four countries are triangle-shaped and meet at the E.C. zone. This view is absolutely irreconcilable with the earliest Baum writing and must have given Haff and Martin fits. Their map does not conform to this view entirely, so they must have gone through some compromise process. See my comment to Robin above. Tyler: I'm guessing that AFAIK=As Far As I Know. You're correct on the green zone being 1/3 day to the west, 1 day to the east. But to the north and south it's still up for grabs; not enough information in _Wizard_. All we know is that the green zone _is_ all around the E.C. My 2:1 ratio for Oz-as-a-whole may be a bit long, but possible. The 10:6 ratio is perhaps more probable, and corresponds to 1.76:1. The 1.3:1 ratio you mention is not, I suppose, out of bounds, but does seem a bit "blocky." I'm behind on getting to _Land_, but I _will_ get there. You could say I suffer from analysis paralysis at the present time. J. Bell: Your mini-essays are masterful, as usual. It's with regret that I can only compliment and not complement. 10/6 D. Hulan: Um, yes, that's why I defined, or rather confined, the "units" to a day's travel _on foot_. Transport by air or magic is definitely out unless it can be in some way equated. Since these modes play greater roles in later books, I wanted to fix general dimensions as soon as possible, and I suspect succeeding tomes may only be useful for refining borders, etc. "Hill" is ambiguous, but I interpreted it as merely a gentle rise in the local landscape which would not have been an obstacle except for its inimical occupants. And young Dorothy was at that time unsophisticated in the use of magical tools. Instead of getting the monkeys to take her directly to Glinda, she just has them carry her "over the hill," so I doubt it was any great distance. Besides, I'm over the hill, too, and know that nothing mysterious resides there; the other side of the hill merely amounts to a reduced distance to the final destination. Ah, but that's the point. What does _Wizard alone_ say, and where does it begin to diverge? W. Baldwin ===================================================================== = From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:46:41 EDT Subject: Oz From the color archives: In _Wizard_, There are three references to green grass outside of the EC (and outside of the green zone), as well as one reference to yellow grain outside of the Winkie Country. David Hulan: To further back up your statements regarding _Land_, I recall Mombi specifically telling Junjur that a certain course of action would cost her "The Throne of the Emerald City". It seems that with the fall of Pastoria and the disappearance of Ozma, that Oz reverted to local control throughout most of it's area. David and Lisa: Thanks for noting my particular interest in Oz (prehistory). I can't recall may references to the specific ecological or climatic conditions of Oz prior to Lurline's visit, but the few that there are, in and out of the FF, seem to support an Oz that has always been beautiful at least to the eye. I have a hard time imagining Oz as a rocky, poisonous wasteland, unless we picture the Deadly Desert as once covering the entire continent. Much of Fairyland is a pleasant place to be, and I can't imagine all of that as having come from Lurline alone. Now, as to whether it was beautiful in the political or social sense, that's another can of Nomes altogether... Tyler Jones ===================================================================== = From: Ozisus@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:38:04 EDT Subject: Fwd: Ozma Baum Mantele Just passing along the sad news to those Oz fans in my address book who did not appear to be included in Bill's original distribution. Ozma was a fine lady who will be dearly missed. Jane From: TheBBugle@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:17:17 EDT Subject: Ozma Baum Mantele I regret being the bearer of sorrowful news, for those of you who may not already know; Ozma Baum passed away from an apparent stroke over the weekend. She was eighty-three years old (although she appeared ageless), a tireless advocate for Oz and our Club, and one of my personal all-time favorite people. Ozma was passionate about preserving her family history in a respectful and accurate manner. (She recently sent me a brief article for the centennial Bugle adamantly denouncing the Littlefield/Populist theory!) She will be missed by all who had the pleasure of knowing her. Her daughter Gita is presently handling her affairs. (Gita and Michael Hearn are expected to pen tributes to Ozma for the Winter 1999 Bugle.) If anyone has any more information to share to update us, please do so. Best, Bill ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 11 Oct 99 17:02:54 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things OZMA: Very sorry to hear about Ozma Baum Mantele. I would have liked to have met her. I never met Bob Pattrick either, although my dad says he was a wonderful person. "IN THE BEGINNING...": Tyler wrote: >Thanks for noting my particular interest in Oz (prehistory). I can't recall >may references to the specific ecological or climatic conditions of Oz prior >to Lurline's visit, but the few that there are, in and out of the FF, seem to >support an Oz that has always been beautiful at least to the eye. > >I have a hard time imagining Oz as a rocky, poisonous wasteland, unless we >picture the Deadly Desert as once covering the entire continent. > >Much of Fairyland is a pleasant place to be, and I can't imagine all of that >as having come from Lurline alone. Melody's theory is that Lurline flew over Oz and saw how beautiful it was, and then "went to Ak with the idea of creating a fairyland where mortals can enjoy eternal happiness, too--in order to put to shame the Real World." -- Dave ===================================================================== = To: Dave Hardenbrook From: Ozzy Digest Subject: Ozzy Digest, 10-15-99 Cc: Bcc: Ozzy_Digest_Members X-Attachments: In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991015135509.025850d0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Persona: ===================================================================== = ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 12 - 15, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== = From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:27:55 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-11-99 Glen Cleveland asked: << Secondly, I was wondering if anyone has purchased the new "100 Years of Oz" book that John Fricke helped to create. If someone could comment on the merits of the book and the extent of the individual collection highlighted versus other collections I would find that very interesting. >> It's a beautiful book. It helps put the sequence of Oz events into a sharper focus than it probably was for most of us before the book. The photos of Willard Carroll's extraordinary collection are lavish and well-chosen. The extent of the collection highlighted? It'd take more than one or two such books to photograph all of Willard's collection. His may be the most complete collection extant, nowadays, at least as far as books and MGM artifacts, although it's not limited to just those. Willard's collection is mind-boggling. John Fricke's text is, as usual, lucid and entertaining. It's a "must have" book for many of us.--Robin ===================================================================== = From: Orange5193@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:39:35 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-11-99 In a message dated 10/11/99 8:00:55 PM Central Daylight Time, OzDigest@mindspring.com writes: > > I think the film originally known as "His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz" was > billed as "The New Wizard of Oz," or something like that. This movie was > the source of much of the plot for _Scarecrow_ (the book), but it was > different from the original "Wizard of Oz" movie made by Baum. > His Majesty, the Scarecrow of Oz was completed at about the time the Oz Film Manufacturing Company started to slowly disintegrate due to a number of factors including audience resistance to feature-length children's fare and the power of the monopoly which virtually ruled the film industry in its early days. In the search for a distributor, the film was retitled "The New Wizard of Oz" and later simply "The Wizard of Oz", this last version with a publicity campaign which suggested that it was a film version of the stage success. This ruse was helped along by the fact that Violet Macmillan (Dorothy) had played Dorothy in one of the later road companies of the show, not to mention the costumes, which are all pretty much the same as worn in the extravaganza. Baum's book The Scarecrow of Oz was expanded from the film scenario- which centered on the Gloria/ Pon subplot. James Doyle ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:49:38 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-99 (1) Rich: _Nikidik in Oz_, which I have yet to write down in any siginificant length, has the velozciraptor Alu tell Tip that his mom was really a waitress (a reference to the Trixe Tryfle/Pastoria thing). Scott ===================================================================== =========== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Love is not a positive emotion that begins in us and ends in the positive response of someone else. Love is divine energy that comes from God and has no end." --Eric Butterworth ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:20:50 -0500 (EST) From: cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-18-99 > > "OZ KIDS" UNIVERSE: > Okay, some questions: > > -- Who is Dorothy's hubby? (Tommy Kwikstep? That would keep it > Laumer-consistant.) It's Zeb. Neddie says so. > > -- Who is the Wizard's wife? > > -- Who is the Tin Man's wife? (Nimee Amee???) > > -- Is Andrea (who I gather is the show's "Ozma" character) really > an insufferable prat? Andrea just has her own way of thinking of things. Based on what the e-mail a character thing says, she takes her look from Ozma, and we would learn more about Ozma further on in the series. Scott ===================================================================== = Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:38:39 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Oz going soft charset=ISO-8859-1 Glen Cleveland asked: <> Books of Wonder originally published these books in hardcover, so some copies may still be in stock. The Int'l Wizard of Oz Club also issued several of the late Thompson titles in hardcover with essays by Fred Meyer and other scholars. Despite those luminaries, however, most of these books will never be so iridescently beautiful as BoW's Baum reissues because they never had color plates to begin with. Reilly & Lee had cut back on its costs by that time. Once a title goes into paperback, it's very hard to convince booksellers to stock the more expensive hardcover edition again. In stores, therefore, we'll probably continue to see only Books of Wonder soft editions. (I don't recall whether any of those softcovers are hardcovers cut down and rebound; that process produces a sturdy but less than graceful paperback, and a small inventory of hardcovers.) For myself, I wish the Books of Wonder editions of SEA FAIRIES and SKY ISLAND included Neill's color plates in color, rather than black and white. But without the Oz name, I know, those books were already harder to sell. Warren Baldwin wrote: <> Alas, not all of Thompson's books would follow "her" map: ROYAL BOOK and KABUMPO fit the Baum map, and so does GIANT HORSE, implying she went back to WIZARD and LAND as she prepared that book (which makes sense, given the roles that the Good Witch of the North and Mombi played in it). But other books in between and after those don't. Neill's books would fit Thompson's map--if they can be fit onto any. Snow's probably fit Baum's map better than Baum's, as do all subsequent titles. That group includes, I believe, Thompson's two books for the Club and Neill's RUNAWAY--after Eric Shanower's massaging. Warren Baldwin wrote: <> Masterful. Turning to GRAMPA, Warren Baldwin wrote: <> Grampa drops a hint about these battles when he says, "In my youth, young lads served in the armies of strange kings, slew monsters, and were rewarded with half the kingdom and the Princess' hand" [12/123]. So most of Grampa's army career may have been rather like Sir Hokus's one-man quests. Baum usually drew on 19th-century military detail for his soldiers, and Thompson seems to do the same for Grampa; with his gun, drum, and checkered pants, he appears to fit better in the Grand Army of the Republic than in a troop of armored knights. But in his youth battles might have been very different. Back in February, Dave Godwin wrote about the storm in ROYAL BOOK: <> GRAMPA begins with a bad storm, Bill gets caught in another (or is it the same?), and Polychrome and her father travel with the rain. In this part of Oz, at least, Fumbo seems wise to provide his heir with a big umbrella. And Thompson seems more willing than Baum to use bad weather as a convenient device (which needs no explanation) to shake up her plot. On the other hand, she assures us it never snows in Oz, though Fumbo's books mention such a phenomenon elsewhere [11/120]. Thompson contradicted Baum in GRAMPA in several other minor ways that are nevertheless interesting as clues to how she went about telling her story. For instance, she says that Ragbad's army marched off to Jinxland [1/5]. Obviously, she'd forgotten the bottomless gulf between that kingdom and the rest of Quadlingland in SCARECROW, and was simply looking at the TIK-TOK map. Grampa tells Bill, "there are no live wires in Oz" [3/28]. Baum wrote that Ozma's palace had electric lights, with the implication that they indeed had electric currents flowing through them. Both Fumbo [17/183] and Peer Haps [9/90] have detailed and recent histories of Oz, so Grampa should presumably have known about Ozma's castle. Instead, Thompson seems to be accelerating the process of making Oz more quaint than the contemporary American countryside. Thompson states that Ozma made the Tin Woodman emperor of the Winkies [9/86], but in WIZARD it's clear that he was the Winkies' own choice. I see this as reflecting Thompson's top-down view of authority, in contrast to Baum's bottom-up preference. There also seems to be a shift of perspective when Tatters asks Dorothy if she's "The Dorothy who discovered Oz?" [17/182] As I write on Columbus Day, it seems especially apt to note that a native like Tatters would know that Oz needed no discovering. That line discloses Thompson's US-centered view of the world; Dorothy "discovered" Oz for us, not for them. There are also some small differences in how Thompson depicts Dorothy and her family. On Monday Mountain, Dorothy asks Percy, "Can you fight?" [14/152] It's ambiguous whether she's asking him (as a male) to fight for her, or whether she's preparing to wade in herself (as she did with the Cowardly Lion and the Tottenhots). In any event, Thompson doesn't actually dare to show her heroine physically resisting. I do prefer how Thompson shows Toto in this book barking except when necessary [9/84, 14/154]. Is this the first book that sets Uncle Henry and Aunt Em in "a comfortable little farm just outside of the Emerald City" [9/87]? One feature that Thompson shared with Baum: a wish to allow characters to hear what people in Magic Picture are saying. In EMERALD CITY, as I recall, Ozma and her friends merely had to be *very quiet* to hear the Nomes and their allies quarreling. In TIK-TOK she had a radio hook-up to the Shaggy Man. Here the Wizard creates "a powerful radio" [22/223]--picking up what signals? At the end of OZMAPOLITAN, Dick Martin shows the Wizard performing another temporary spell that created the same effect. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ===================================================================== = Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 09:22:52 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: houses in oz Glen Cleveland: "Silver Princess" was published by the IWOC rather than by Books of Wonder, and in paperback only, I believe. (But they're full-size editions, not pocket-size, and do well by the artwork.) // As I commented to you off the list, doing a tour of RPT's houses sounds like an interesting project. Maybe you could take along a camera with b&w film, and write a short article out of the material to offer to the IWOC's "Baum Bugle" or "Oz Observer." J. L. Bell: I think "Toto" was a standard dog-name (like Fido or Rex) at the time, especially standard as a name for poodles. But I don't know why. (Tolly, in the Green Knowe books by L. M. Boston, dislikes his stepmother because she calls him Toto, as if he were a dog. Written mid-century, but probably not inspired by Baum -- or Weber & Fields -- as few English readers seem to have known about "Wizard" until rather later. // The book on Fields sounds interesting. ===================================================================== = From: jwkenne@attglobal.net Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 17:09:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-99 J. L. Bell wrote: >I had some of the same questions when I heard about this series. And >similar ones arose about Goofy's son Max on GOOF TROOP. Why, of all popular >Disney characters, would *he* be the first to reproduce? "Gorsh!" During the post-war years, there were a number of shorts featuring Goofy as an Everyman type; in some of those, where the material required it, he was presented living in suburbia with a wife and kids. None of them were ever particularized, as far as I know, before "Goof Troop", but it gave something of a precedent, just as Barks' comicbooks served as a precedent (and sometimes a source) for "Duck Tales". But I'm sure the Oz kids were inspired by the success of the Muppet Babies and the Tiny Toons. // John W Kennedy ===================================================================== = Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 14:12:36 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things THOMPSON: J.L. Bell wrote: >Grampa tells Bill, "there are no live wires in Oz" [3/28]. Baum wrote >that Ozma's palace had electric lights, with the implication that they >indeed had electric currents flowing through them. I always thought that on whatever grounds Neill's books are open to criticism it was wrong to criticize them in _The Oz Scrapbook_ for bringing contemporary technology to Oz because Baum did it in several places. Thompson was the one who wanted Oz to be more like a *conventional fairyland*. (Yawn.) That's not meant as a criticism of Thompson -- I just feel she was not as imaginative as Baum. I think we had to wait until Sid Krofft to find another man with nearly as wild an imagination as Baum. >Thompson states that Ozma made the Tin Woodman emperor of the Winkies >[9/86], but in WIZARD it's clear that he was the Winkies' own choice. The T.W. was already emperor when he met *Tip*, so it couldn't have been *Ozma* who appointed him!!! >In any event, Thompson doesn't actually >dare to show her heroine physically resisting. I find it "a most ingenious paradox" how Oz's females assume more frequently passive roles when RPT (a female) was Historian. Face it, there are so many places Thompson flatly contradicts Baum that I can't see how any statement she made can be taken as Holy Scripture. ( And you guys all know what statement in particular I'm referring to. :) ) TOTOS: Ruth wrote: >I think "Toto" was a standard dog-name (like Fido or Rex) at >the time, especially standard as a name for poodles. Do you know of any other literary Totos? I only know of one: In Louisa May Alcott's _Rose in Bloom_, Rose's snooty friend Emma has a pug named Toto. >Tolly, in the Green Knowe books by L. M. Boston, dislikes his >stepmother because she calls him Toto, as if he were a dog. One human Toto on the silver screen: Mary Astor's pigeon-English-speaking go-fer in the movie _Palm Beach Story_. OVER THE RAINBOW: Has anyone ever made up a list of the number of singers who have done covers of _Over The Rainbow_ and how many films the melody has been played in? THE IX-FILES?: On Eric Gjovaag's sister list to this one, there has been discussion about Oz being a dream in the MGM film. Based on some of the comments made, it seems to me that the studio probably made it a dream because in the age of the Hayes Office and the Dais Committee they were nervous about implying that there could anywhere (except in dreams) be a place more idyllic than the Land of E Pluberus Unum. So I wonder -- Is it possible that Oz *is* real, but that there is a conspiracy of all the Nations of the Earth to keep it a secret? :) MOTHER: "...And the people of Oz lived happily ever after. The End." BOY: Mommy, is the Land of Oz a real place? MOTHER: That is on a "Need to Know" basis only, my son. -- Dave ===================================================================== = To: Dave Hardenbrook From: Ozzy Digest Subject: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-99 Cc: Bcc: Ozzy_Digest_Members X-Attachments: In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991021022907.00f04a40@pop.mindspring.com> X-Persona: ===================================================================== = ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 15 - 21, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== = From: Sduffley@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:21:25 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-15-99 In response to a post by Glen Cleveland, Ruth Berman wrote: <> This set off some minor bells and whistles for me ... after some quick digging, I located a short piece by Fred Meyer entitled "Return to Farragut Terrace", which appeared in the Autumn 1991 Bugle (an RPT tribute issue). The short (1/2 page) article describes a dinner Fred and Dorothy Curtiss Marott (Thompson's niece) attended at the invitation of the house's then-occupant, one Florence Weller. No photo of the house is provided, but from Fred's description of 254 South Farragut Terrace, its physical layout resembles that of many a Victorian rowhouse in West Philadelphia -- long and narrow, with one room set behind another. As an undergrad at the University of Pennsylvania a few years back, I lived in such a West Philadelphia rowhouse not far from RPT's ... I've often regreted not strolling out of my way to locate it. ... Be advised, Glen, if you care to take a gander: West Philly these days is not for the faint of heart. Good luck, Sean Duffley ===================================================================== = Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:18:52 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-11-99 Glen Cleveland asked: > Secondly, I was wondering if anyone has purchased the new "100 Years of > Oz" book that John Fricke helped to create. If someone could comment on the > merits of the book and the extent of the individual collection highlighted > versus other collections I would find that very interesting. I was recently given the chance to review the book, and will be posting a review on my site in the next few days. Since, I received the book from them a few days ago, I have not gotten a chance to read it. I also do not have much knowledge of Oz collections. However, from what I have seen of the book, it is excellent, its pages being filled with photographs of items. It is organized by years, and from what I have read, it is excellently written. I would recommend it already, especially if you are interested in seeing pictures of the many items. Personally, I have never studied the history of how Oz has been received throughout the 20th century, but from what I have seen, the book should enlighten me on the history of Oz as it was seen around the world. If you want to see an excerpt from the book, as well as the cover, you may want to go to http://www.fsbassociates.com/stc/oz.htm Just my initial comments. -- David Levitan E-mail: Web Page: david@emeraldcityofoz.com The Emerald City of Oz dbl@bestweb.net http://www.emeraldcityofoz.com ===================================================================== = From: "sprichards" Subject: Oz Digest Stuff Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:01:50 -0700 SILVER PRINCESS IN OZ EDITIONS: I don't know wheter Books of Wonder ever did make a hardcover. They could of in the past, but now they only have it in paperback. The IWOC has it in both cloth and paperback now. The paperback is 8 or 9 dollars, but in fact, just yesterday I got my Order Recipt and I HAVE ordered the Silver Princess in Oz in the cloth edition. It is 17.00 and I think it has the endpapers and the dustjacket, although I am not sure. They list it in the Order Booklet that they give out every year showing what you can order through the club. And maybe on www.ozclub.org, click "PUBLIFICATIONS" and see if it shows the description of Silver Princess in Oz Cloth. But I have ordered it along with YANKEE IN OZ cloth and it took almost two months and a half to get the recipt! So I'm eagerly awaiting the books. And on www.booksofwonder.com, you can probably E-Mail them to see if they used to carry it in cloth and ask if they have some copies. I thought the hardcovers of SKY ISLAND and THE SEA FAIRIES had color plates. Oh well. I have paperbacks of both and they should be published with the plates. Of course, my Sea Fairies is a Dover Paperback and Sky Island is a BoW paperback. Will Books of Wonder have 100 YEARS OF OZ in their fall Oz Collector? Sounds interesting, so I'll have to check it out. Was it Baum or Thompson who stated "Oz has always been a peaceful and prosperus country without any fighting or wars?" For the Hoppers and Horners have had lots of wars, both in PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ and THE ROYAL BOOK OF OZ. Liked the comments on GRAMPA IN OZ. I think it is one of Ruth's best, but like a few other Oz books has its good points and it's bad. COWARDLY LION was quite dark in a few ways, but the only part I liked was the Fiddlestick Forest or whatever it is. But in Grampa, the whole story is neat, but after a while Bill certanly gets more annoying than Percy Vere. I wish Thompson put the end to Percy's rhymes, for I didn't bother to make up an ending. I'll have to re-read it. Last time I read it was around February 1999. I have a pretty good memory though! Anyone know if Books of Wonder plan to release any new books either by Emerald City Press or what? I wish they could talk the owner of the Thompson Copyrights into letting them publish Thompson's books. They would be beautiful with the color plates and all. They got John R. Neil's done and MERRY-GO-ROUND IN OZ published all right. GLINDA OF OZ is the last one to be published I hear. Wonder what they will do after that. Perhaps they will pubish AUNT JANE'S NEICES or something like that. Well, gotta go! Oz Ever, Justin Richards P.S. Does anyone with a First Edition of GRAMPA IN OZ knows if there was ever a front color plate? Mine doesn't have one, but has all 12 in different parts of the book, but not in front. Perhaps a later First Edition would have it. Thank you! ===================================================================== = From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-15-99 Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:01:59 PDT J. L. Bell: >On the other >hand, she assures us it never snows in Oz, though Fumbo's books mention >such a phenomenon elsewhere [11/120]. Actually, I think that the statement was along the lines of "there is no snow in Oz," although she mentions in _Ojo_ that Oz has a Snow Mountain. This doesn't necessarily mean that snow falls from the sky there, but the substance is presumably there, or that name most likely wouldn't have been used. There's soap snow in _Gnome King_ and talcum powder snow in Neill's _Lucky Bucky_, but neither of these really count. It did, however, snow in Icetown (from _Hidden Valley_) and at the Link (in _Merry Go Round_), but these were probably just localized occurrences. > Grampa tells Bill, "there are no live wires in Oz" [3/28]. Baum wrote >that Ozma's palace had electric lights, with the implication that they >indeed had electric currents flowing through them. After the palace sinks in _Lost King_, Dorothy uses a "radio button" to turn on the lights. I don't really know what this means, but it could be suggesting that the lights are powered with the use of electrical wires. >Is this the first book that sets Uncle Henry and Aunt Em in "a comfortable >little farm just outside of the Emerald City" [9/87]? I'm not sure. Uncle Henry and Aunt Em's home seems to vary from one book to another. They're given a suite in the palace in _Emerald City_, but I think Baum places in a house in a later book (I'm not sure about this, though). Thompson, as you mentioned, has them live outside the city, but I think Neill returns them to the palace. I think _Magical Mimics_ places them outside the castle again; I haven't read that book in several years, but I seem to recall either Em or Henry saying that Dorothy would come to visit them every day. (I suppose this statement could still be true if they lived in the palace, though.) They're definitely living in the palace in Dick Martin's _Ozmapolitan_. > One feature that Thompson shared with Baum: a wish to allow characters >to >hear what people in Magic Picture are saying. In EMERALD CITY, as I recall, >Ozma and her friends merely had to be *very quiet* to hear the Nomes and >their allies quarreling. In TIK-TOK she had a radio hook-up to the Shaggy >Man. Here the Wizard creates "a powerful radio" [22/223]--picking up what >signals? At the end of OZMAPOLITAN, Dick Martin shows the Wizard performing >another temporary spell that created the same effect. Good point about the signals. Perhaps Thompson just used "radio" because that term would give a good indication to the readers as to what the device looked and acted like, even if it did not really use radio waves. The magic radio (or a very similar device) was also used in _Royal Book_ and _Merry Go Round_, and _Scalawagons_ had Ozma and company listening to the people in the Magic Picture with no explanation as to how. Dave Hardenbrook: >I always thought that on whatever grounds Neill's books are open to >criticism >it was wrong to criticize them in _The Oz Scrapbook_ for bringing >contemporary >technology to Oz because Baum did it in several places. Thompson was the >one >who wanted Oz to be more like a *conventional fairyland*. While Thompson did introduce a lot of medieval-type elements into Oz, she did not completely abandon technology in her books. Sir Hokus states that Ozma's palace has electric burglar alarms (in _Yellow Knight_), the Wizard invents Ozoplanes and other mechanical devices, and Tik-Tok makes a mechanical handcar in _Wishing Horse_. Those are just three examples that I thought of on the spur of the moment; there are probably others. > >Thompson states that Ozma made the Tin Woodman emperor of the Winkies > >[9/86], but in WIZARD it's clear that he was the Winkies' own choice. > >The T.W. was already emperor when he met *Tip*, so it couldn't have been >*Ozma* who appointed him!!! You're right, although I would assume that Ozma would have been called upon to approve Nick's rule after taking control over all of Oz. Still, that doesn't really constitute "making" Nick Emperor of the Winkies. Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ===================================================================== = Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:57:09 +1000 From: Gehan Subject: Hi! Could someone tell me a way to order books published by TOTCLEF/BUCKETHEAD? Thanks, -Gehan- ========================= Climb Ev'ry Mountain Cross Ev'ry Stream Follow Ev'ry Rainbow 'Till you find you're dream --Mother Abbes (The Sound of Music) There's no place like home --Dorothy Gale (The Wizard of Oz) A bat in the hand is worth two in the belfry --The Joker (The Batman Adventures:"Mad Love") ===================================================================== = Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:59:40 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Rana Haugen Here's what Rana Haugen (Jellia Jamb (1981)) is up to: http://centerstagela.com/page4.html ===================================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Love is not a positive emotion that begins in us and ends in the positive response of someone else. Love is divine energy that comes from God and has no end." --Eric Butterworth ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:29:57 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: *Ozma* making Nick emperor? > > >Thompson states that Ozma made the Tin Woodman emperor of the Winkies > >[9/86], but in WIZARD it's clear that he was the Winkies' own choice. > > The T.W. was already emperor when he met *Tip*, so it couldn't have been > *Ozma* who appointed him!!! > Perhaps Thompson meant to imply Ozma merely ratified the already-existing situation, especially since the government tends to become more republican as opposed to confederated as time goes on. Just as she allows some benign magic workers to continue their (theretically extrajudicial) practice. After all, if she runs the entire uber-empire, does any population have the right to democratically self-determine their leadership? --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ===================================================================== = From: CruentiDei@cs.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:59:56 EDT Subject: Oz The whole nine yards: ISTR an Urban Legend that in World War II, ammunition belts were nine yards long for the big guns on ships and/or planes. Therefore, to really sock it to the enemy, you would give them "the whole nine yards". Warren Baldwin wrote: > Even if one blunders onto the sands at the point where the > twist begins, you can never get off again. All those > supposedly destroyed people who have disappeared are still > there; they're just wandering around endlessly. Very Laumeresque, except that he attirbuted this to the spell of invisibility. John Bell: To continue your analysis of the Magic Picture, in _Royal Book_, they could not hear what was being said in the picture until the Wizard boosted it with a magic item. It is not recorded whether this spell was permanent or temporary. Tyler Jones ===================================================================== = From: "W. H. Baldwin" Subject: This 'n' That Date: Tue, 19 Oct 99 01:24:38 PDT 10/15: J.L. Bell-- < Masterful.> Thank you. (modest, deprecatory cough) You are obviously a man of discernment and taste. This week's trivia question: Who is William J. Harmstead, and what does he have to do with Oz? W. Baldwin ===================================================================== = Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:07:54 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-99 > strong (not to mention that it keeps shifting focus from one character to > another). All of Neill's books are full of ideas, but weak on plot. Shifting focus from one character to another is not necessarily a weakness! > > Zeb. Since her relation to him seems to be quite indirect, I don't thinnk > this counts as incest (and the characters' relationship probably isn't even > mentioned in the films). He does appear briefly, though. > I was going to grumble that Tip may not have been well-traveled or educated > enough to say for certain that all in Gilikinland was purple, yet hw knows a > fair amount of geography and history, even to the fact that Dorothy journeyed > to Glinda and got sent home. You have to wonder how much of the colorization was related to various magic-workers, since Ozma hadn't banned them. I don't think Ted Turner invented the idea. > Mombi was able to recongize Tip's carving style on Jack's head. > Tip was described as being small and delicate. Foreshadowing of Ozma? He was also described as "strong" and "brown." > FRANK: > Nathan wrote: > > Frank (the Wizard's son)... > > Was this meant as homage to Frank Morgan? I think it was Baum, particularly since in the earlier episodes the credits read "Frank Jr.," the jr. apparently deleted when they realized that the Wizard's name is Oscar. Scott ===================================================================== = Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:32:01 -0500 (EST) From: cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-06-99 > Eric K.: > >What became the Tin Man's "name"? > > Not sure what you mean - the movie never gave it, but then I don't believe > the book of _Wizard_ did either. I think "Nick Chopper" was introduced in > the stage play and then used in _Land_ and subsequent books, though it > might just have been introduced in _Land_. Nick was short for "Niccolo" in the stage play, since he played the piccolo. In _Oz Squad_ they called him "Nicholas," but in that version he was also having an affair with Rebecca Eastwitch to get to Nimmie Amee (though I think they changed her name to "Amy"). Scott ===================================================================== = Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:48:13 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-11 & 15-99 I've been to Virginia for a nephew's wedding and to California for the wedding reception thrown by my daughter and new son-in-law for those of their friends who couldn't make it to Italy since my last response. Busy times. But I don't anticipate traveling again until well into next year (unless as has been rumored my wife gets an assignment in Columbus, OH, and in that case I'll make arrangements to get my e-mail there). 10/11: Robin: > Euwww! Three? Nasty thought, but I guess I could. They could >always go into the next _Oz Game Book_, if we ever get 'round to >doing one. Well, the only way to go for the Grand Slam in one year is to attend all three conventions and take the quizzes... J.L.: > Could this spring 1899 show have given Baum the idea for Toto's name? >Probably not, despite his stage-struck ways. Weber & Fields didn't send >their company to Chicago until 1902. The two Totos probably had a common >source in earlier pop culture. I've run across the nickname "Toto" more than once for French (human male) characters in books from the '20s and '30s, and I doubt if there's any connection with Baum. I suspect it's a nickname for some fairly common given name (Thomas, maybe?) in France, probably goes back to the 19th century, and was picked up as a dog's name, likely originally for a poodle (as lots of female poodles are named Mimi and Fifi and Lulu and the like), in America. Why Dorothy would have chosen that name for a terrier is more questionable, but it could be that when Baum first wrote of Toto he didn't have a terrier in mind; all he says is that he's small, black, and has long silky hair. That's obviously not a poodle, but could be some kind of spaniel that Dorothy (or her guardians) associated with France. This is, of course, all wild speculation. >One interesting theme of GRAMPA is anti-tobacco. As I quoted earlier, >Fumbo's two expenses driving Ragbad into ruin are books and tobacco [1/4]. It's difficult to imagine how paying for books and tobacco could bankrupt a kingdom - even a very small one - unless the books in question were comparable in value to a Gutenberg Bible, and Fumbo only smoked exceedingly rare tobaccos. Clearly Grampa can afford his tobacco habit, so it's not that tobacco in general is terribly expensive in Oz. Warren: >In other words, _we just have two maps_: The Oz of L. Frank Baum >and The Oz of Ruth Plumly Thompson. I think it's rather more complicated than that. Neither Baum nor Thompson is particularly consistent internally in their geozify. Thompson has the Munchkin/Winkie directions reversed in some books and not in others. Baum has Ev opposite the Munchkin country in _Ozma_ and to the north and west in _Magic_. Etc. > D. Hulan because that way he could . . . have an easier trek> A possibility. I >prefer evidence to speculation. So do I, but where there is no evidence (which is very often the case, as it is in this one), speculation is all we have left. > And it _is_ explicitly stated in one of the >Thompson books, and perhaps in others as well, that the four countries are >triangle-shaped and meet at the E.C. zone. This view is absolutely >irreconcilable with the earliest Baum writing and must have given Haff and >Martin fits. I don't think it's "absolutely irreconcilable." You've made a good point about the description of the Quadling Country in _Wizard_. It certainly appears that at the time of Dorothy's first trip to Oz, the Quadling Country was a more or less rectangular strip along the southern edge of the country. But this doesn't preclude Ozma from having "donated" the wilderness zone between the central QC and the green country to Glinda sometime between _Wizard_ and _Emerald City_ (at which point the QC appears to come quite close to the EC). The two maps would only be "absolutely irreconcilable" if you postulate that there were no political changes in Oz, except for the change of supreme ruler, after _Wizard_. We're not, after all, talking about immutable physical geography here, but regional boundaries. Cf. the change of British shires for administrative districts around 1970. For instance, Sussexshire became two separate districts, whereas Herefordshire and Worcestershire were combined into one. IIRC, parts of Warwickshire and Staffordshire were combined into a new "West Midlands," and the rest of them were attached to other districts. I'm going by memory here on specifics, but I've looked at the two maps and they're very different - even though Great Britain didn't change its physical geography at all. Jane: Sad to hear of Ozma Baum Mantele's death. I'll put a brief obit in the _Observer_. (Brief because at this point it's overloaded already.) 10/15: J.L.: >Warren Baldwin wrote: <> >Masterful. I thought it was masterly, myself. :-) Thompson uses storms quite often - in _Royal Book_, _Cowardly Lion_, _Grampa_, and _Silver Princess_, for sure, and there may be others that I've forgotten in a quick run-through. (For that matter, I used a couple in _Glass Cat_...) I suppose it would be possible for the Ragbad army to march off to Jinxland despite the bottomless gulf. If Ozma decided to keep a serious eye on that kingdom after it came to her attention in _Scarecrow_, it's quite plausible that she'd install (or have the Wizard or Glinda install) a bridge over the gulf so it would communicate with the rest of the kingdom. The gulf doesn't seem to have been all that wide; after all, a spider web could span it. I don't see this as a serious contradiction. (Though a few years ago I also hypothesized that "marched off to Jinxland" might just be a metaphor comparable to "took off for Timbuktu," not to be taken literally but just meaning" heading out for parts unknown.") > Grampa tells Bill, "there are no live wires in Oz" [3/28]. Baum wrote >that Ozma's palace had electric lights, with the implication that they >indeed had electric currents flowing through them. Two possibilities here, if we want to preserve the appearances: Grampa may not have known about the electricity in Ozma's palace (he'd never been there, after all, and even if Fumbo had an up-to-date encyclopedia Grampa may not have read that part of it), or by "live wire" he may have been meaning a wire exposed to the outside world, which might not have been the case regarding the electrification of Ozma's palace. (Maybe the generator was in the basement and so there were no wires outside the palace.) Speculation, yes, but in the absence of concrete evidence, as I said to Warren... The Tin Woodman was certainly Emperor of the Winkies before Ozma took the throne; perhaps what Thompson meant was that Ozma had confirmed him in his position. Ruth: I think both the IWOC and BoW published editions of _Silver Princess_. As of several of the other PD Thompsons. Dave: Eric Gjovaag has a "sister list" to the Digest? I'll have to look it up... David Hulan ===================================================================== = From: "W. H. Baldwin" Subject: Geozify 3 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 99 22:33:02 PDT Hello, time for your Geozify lesson again. This week we extend our knowledge by an examination of clues available in the second volume of the Oz series, _Land_. Unfortunately, _Land_ doesn't have very many of these hints, but there are a few -- and along the way a couple of other interesting things worthy of comment. First, a summary of what was gleaned from _Wizard_: Oz is a rectangular (probably, but not specifically stated) country with a east/west to north/south ratio of about 2:1 or 10:6 relative units. It is surrounded on all sides by a great desert. In the exact center lies the Emerald City, encompassed by an irregular zone under its direct influence; the prevailing color of this zone is green. To the east, this zone is about 1 relative unit in extent, to the west about 1/3 unit. In the west lies the Winkie country with a prevailing color of yellow, to the east the blue Munchkin country, in the north the purple Gillikin country, and to the south bordering the desert is the red Quadling country. Glinda's castle is at the desert's edge in this country, directly south from the EC. The Quadling country is a long, narrow country with a depth of about 1/2 relative unit in its center, about 1 unit at its western end, unknown in the east. _Wizard_ does not specify the shape, size, borders or other extent of any of these countries. They are as unknown as the western U.S. at the time of the Purchase. Let's see what _Land_ can add: ****************SPOILER FOR _THE LAND OF OZ_*************** Chapter 1. Tip, the story's main character, is described as living in the country of the Gillikins as sort of an involuntary ward of Mombi, an old woman/witch. Chapter 2. They live in the mountains. A valley "below the farmhouse" is specifically mentioned. Just where east/west they live is not described. Chapter 3. After a prank and a set-to with Mombi which results in bringing Jack Pumpkinhead to life, J and T run away in the middle of the night to escape punishment; this starts day 1. After it's light, they stop for breakfast; Tip says he believes that they're headed south. (And here occurs one of those interesting non-geozgraphical statements. It is categorically stated that everything in the Gillikin country is purple: grass, trees, even the mud in the road! And that everything in the east is blue, in the south red, and in the west yellow. This appears to be a curious departure from _Wizard_, where one gets the impression merely that the _prevailing_ color of the respective countries is of a particular kind.) Chapter 4. Still day 1. They encounter the Sawhorse, which Tip brings to life with a magic powder. Chapter 5. Still day 1. Just at dark, they find a sign which states "Emerald City 9 miles." This is the only place I can think of offhand in the entire famous 45 where a distance is described with such unequivocal definity. It ought to be very important, especially being in such an early work. Contrast this with the information given in the last part of _Speedy_, which, if accepted without question, would result in a north/south axis for Oz of -- are you ready for this? -- 3,200 miles! Wowee-wow-wow. *** But I digress. Chapter 6. It's now day 2. Tip says they ought to reach the EC by noon. They start out, presumably south, and after 2 miles the purple of the Gillikin country fades to EC green. This gives us three facts for our notes: (1)the northern extent of the EC green zone is precisely 7 miles; (2)the Gillikin country borders the EC zone in the north as does the Winkie country in the west and the Munchkin land in the east. This doesn't necessarily make them triangular; their shapes are still amorphous, but it's more than we knew before; (3)Considering they started in the middle of the night, it's only about a 2-day walk from where Tip and Mombi lived to the EC. That's not very far! And since they lived in the mountains, there must be quite a view from the EC off to the north. Purple mountains' majesty indeed. *** Now they come to a river. They swim the river, but become separated. J and the S reach the EC without Tip. Chapter 7. Byplay. Chapter 8. Still day 2. Tip walks half of the remaining distance to the EC (about 3.5 miles). He meets Jinjur and her army. They walk to the EC and invade it. It's now about, say, noon. Chapter 9. Tip, Scarecrow and J escape the EC on the SH along the "road to the west." This is interesting because in _Wizard_ there was no road to the west, remember? The WWW lived there and nobody wanted to go that way. It means that sometime between _Wizard_ and _Land_ a road has been put in. No hint as to how far west it goes; is it a cowpath or an intrastate? "Presently" they plunge into another wide river! I don't remember this from _Wizard_! Could this be the same river as the one Tip met in the northern part of the green zone? Maybe it's cut a new channel since _Wizard_. Chapter 10. Still day 2. They rescue J's head, dry out the S, continue the trip. S points out the sites of the bee attack, the wolf attack, and the monkey attack that occurred in _Wizard_. This checks out pretty well; it also means that they haven't gone very far during the afternoon. S says that the monkeys are slaves of Glinda, but this isn't true because at the end of _Wizard_ Glinda promised to set the monkeys free, and Glinda wouldn't lie. Guess the Wiz's brains aren't working very well for the S. Finally, night falls, and they stop. Chapter 11. Day 3. After breakfast, an hour's ride on the SH brings them within sight of "the city of the Winkies" and the Emperor's palace. This is interesting because they are following the route of Dorothy in Wizard. How much would you like to bet that the Winkie settlement around the castle of the old WWW has developed into a city and that the Emperor's new clothes -- er, residence -- is on the site of the old castle, or close by? Sounds pretty good to me. In any event, they all consider strategy overnight, then "bright and early the next day" set out for the EC. Chapter 12. Day 1 of the second phase. Jinjur teams with Mombi, who learns our A-team is on the way. She tries several illusions to misdirect them, but fails. 13-14. They meet the Wogglebug, get his history, overcome some more of Mombi's tricks. Chapter 15. They reach the EC, but are captured. Through a mouse power play they drive the girl army out of the palace and barricade themselves inside. Bad move. 16-17. Still day 1, phase 2! They construct the Gump, bring it to life. Chapter 18. It's evening of day 1, and they all fly the coop -- the palace, that is -- in the Gump, heading south to ask Glinda for help. They fly all night. On the morning of day 2, they're apparently clear out of Oz and over strange territory, and the S admits "we are lost." Remember this. He also says that they "must be" over the "terrible outside world that Dorothy told us about." However, all the text says about this is that the country was "unfamiliar" to them, so I think in view of his first admission that he's just guessing. We from our position of superior knowledge from later books can say definitely that Oz is only one country on an entire unknown planet in the fairy dimension. Thus, the "unfamiliar" countries are only and merely that and not the "terrible outside world"; not to say that they couldn't be _a_ terrible outside world. ** Anyhow, they try to land on a mountain ledge to reorient themselves, but crack up and are dumped into a jackdaws' nest. Chapter 19. They fight off the jackdaws. The S loses his stuffing in the process and replaces it with paper money. They mend the damaged Gump with a wishing pill, then lose the rest of 'em. Oi weh! Chapter 20. It's the end of day 2. They spend the night in the nest. In the morning of day 3 they fly out "due north" in the "Scarecrow's opinion." Considering his record thus far, I'm not putting too much stock in this. But flying somewhere in the general direction of north they traverse the desert and before noon they are over "the country of the Munchkins"! Now whoa there, podner! What happened to the Quadling country? If you're a triangle advocate, this is a flat-out no-no; it would be impossible to enter Oz from the south without going over at least a smidgin of the Quadling country. What to do? Fortunately, as we're starting from scratch with _Wizard_, we've got some leeway here, but even so it's going to be controversial. First, let's go on: S says the Gump is "probably" carrying them in the wrong direction. He doesn't sound very confident to me. The G flies on, and "suddenly" they are over the Quadling country. The Tin W recognizes some familiar landmarks, "altered slightly" the flight of the G, and they reach Glinda's palace, tell their story and ask for help. (Aside: in a tone analagous to that of _Wizard_, Glinda here talks of the EC as though it were a separate country; she refers to "the throne of the Emerald City.") They spend the night in the palace. Day 3 they mull things over and decide to march to the EC. ------Geozify break: The journey of the Gump is impossible if you accept the Thompson universe of perfectly triangular subdivisions. It's difficult but just feasible with the Haff/Martin map, which depicts the Quadling country as not extending all the way to the desert in the east. I think this is correct, but we have to amend the schematic somewhat. To meet the conditions of the text, there has to be a little projection of the Munchkin country undercutting the Quadling country along the desert to the south and all can be explained. Countries often are bordered by a common river, and I think this is the case here. In the east, the Quadling country does not extend all the way to the desert. On the east end, a meandering river divides it from the Munchkin country in such a manner that a projection of the blue land is interposed between the desert and the red land. At first I was averse to this theory because I found it hard to posit a river so close to the desert, but I realized I was visualizing primarily a desert like the Sahara. There are other deserts. Consider the Nile, which runs through a desert. In our own desert southwest, there are rivers, or at least riverbeds which flood during the infrequent rainy seasons. It's not impossible, or even unlikely. So this is my story, and I'm sticking to it: When they fled the EC and flew south during the night, they got off course and drifted to the east. After all, it was the G's first solo flight, and if you've ever sweated out your first cross-country you know what a pain crosswinds can be. The S himself admitted they were "lost." Everything from that point on was merely inspired guesswork. When they left the jackdaw nest to retrace their journey, they pretty much got the north part right, but they were far off to the east of where they thought they were. Just past the desert, they hit the undercutting projection of the Munchkin country first, passed over it rather quickly (in the book this doesn't occupy much time) and hit the Quadling country. The TW recognizes his landmarks (since _Wizard_ he's had time to get around a bit), adjusts the flight of the G _more_ than "slightly," and everything is kool! -------End break Chapter 21. Day 4, phase 2. The expedition leaves Glinda's at daybreak, and they reach the EC zone late the same night! This is a little out of phase with Dorothy's journey in _Wizard_, which took around 3 days. However, Dorothy was a little kid, whereas Glinda's army is characterized as being pretty darn efficient militarily. I mean, they have no green whiskers, and the description of their preparations for the journey bears the earmarks of readying for a forced march. I can see them easily covering twice the distance of D in any given amount of time, and by including half the night it's within the realm of possibility that they could traverse D's 3-day trek in what is effectively a day-and-a-half. BTAIM (Be That As It May), they surround the palace. Now it's day 5. Mombi tricks Glinda. (Aside: Mombi, too, here speaks of the "throne of the Emerald City." It appears that the vision of Oz as a complete, unified country has not yet quite jelled.) Chapter 22. Day 6. Mombi is unmasked, but escapes, followed by Glinda on the SH, and the rest of the principals in the G. S says "the land of Oz is of small extent" so they shouldn't have much trouble following. Quite a departure from the vision of Thompson in _Speedy_ mentioned above! Chapter 23. Mombi is run to ground, and what's interesting about this is that she's run to ground on the desert! Both in _Wizard_ and in _Land_ the deserts are mentioned, but nowhere is it stated that they are especially "deadly." It would appear that this characteristic was not uniformly applied until later in the series. ** Tip is transformed into Ozma. Chapter 24. The EC is besieged, Jinjur is captured, and AWTEW (All's Well That Ends Well). ********************END SPOILER***************************** As you can see, _Land_ has not been exactly a gold-mine of geozgraphical information, but our examination has not been a total loss. We have found nothing which contradicts irreparably the conclusions we reached in the analysis of _Wizard_. Some facts have clashed, but these were not geozify facts except for the instance of coloration of the Oz countries, and this was a matter of degree and not a point of departure. And yet we've learned a few new things: GENERAL -- We can now say that all Oz countries except the Quadling country impinge directly upon the green zone around the Emerald City. This fact lends itself to a model in which these countries have the overall shape of a triangle, but this particular claim is nowhere made in _Wizard_ or _Land_. We have deduced that in the east the Quadling country does not reach the eastern desert, a portion of the Munchkin country instead interposing itself there. It's possible that this interposition is the result of a river demarking the border between the two subdivisions, but this is only speculation. No knowledge has been gained about the extent of the Quadling country in the west, or of the shape and extent of the other three states except that the Munchkin country must necessarily have at least some contact with the southern desert as well as with that in the east. There is a mountain or a mountainous area quite close to the green zone in the north. It should be visible from the EC. In addition, an unnamed river runs through the northern portion of the green zone. There is also a watercourse in or close to the western reach of the green zone (probably outside of the zone; _Wizard_ tells us it's pretty narrow on this side, about 1/3 unit.) This could be the northern river swinging southwest, or perhaps a tributary thereof. There is a Winkie city at or near to the site of the old WWW's castle, and it hosts or is near to the Emperor's residence. It's possible that the E's residence is actually on the site of the old witch's castle, but the location is not specifically given. Also present is a road to the site(s) which was not there in _Wizard_. We are told neither how elaborate this road is nor its extent; i.e., whether or not it extends beyond the Winkie city. The Winkie city, being near the old WWW site, is only about one relative unit from the EC. Must be kind of like the Bosnywash complex in that vicinity! South of Oz, on the other side of the desert, there are other countries, strange and "unfamiliar" countries. Oz is not alone! But we're not told the nature of or, indeed, anything else about them. For now, they are a mystery. SPECIFIC: Perhaps the "hardest" evidence so far encountered in _Wizard_ or _Land_ is the utterly unambiguous calculation of the northern extent of the EC green zone: precisely 7 miles. All that is necessary for confirmation is that the sign encountered by Tip and J be correct, and we haven't the slightest reason to suspect that it is not. I rest my case. W. Baldwin (Be on the lookout for Geozify 4 for a dismantling of _Ozma_, but probably not any time _very_ soon.) ===================================================================== = Date: Thu, 21 Oct 99 11:32:43 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things PUBLISHERS: Gehan wrote: >Could someone tell me a way to order books published by TOTCLEF/BUCKETHEAD? (From the Ozzy Digest FAQ): Tails of the Cowardly Lion and Friends (formerly Buckethead Enterprises of Oz) 1606 Arnold Palmer Loop Belen, NM 87002-7063 (505) 864-4690 mailto:LionCoward@aol.com http://members.aol.com/LionCoward/home.html (For a printed catalog, send a SASE and a check for $1.00) "JELLIA": Scott wrote: >Here's what Rana Haugen (Jellia Jamb (1981)) is up to: >http://centerstagela.com/page4.html Thanks... It's good to know she's still around... Looking at the photo, she looks more like Jellia than ever! MAGIC PICTURE: Tyler wrote: >To continue your analysis of the Magic Picture, in _Royal Book_, they could >not hear what was being said in the picture until the Wizard boosted it with >a magic item. It is not recorded whether this spell was permanent or >temporary. Jellia reports to me that the Wizard is using MP3 compression to ease the difficulties of bringing sound to the Magic Picture. Also the picture quality is much improved, so it's now the "remastered" Magic Picture. :) THE OTHER LIST: David H. wrote: >Eric Gjovaag has a "sister list" to the Digest? I'll have to look it up... Well, not exactly a "sister list" (I doubt Eric would condone that label)... I just feel his list nicely complements mine because his is more aimed at pure fans (especially of the movies) whereas here is where we delve into deep and sometimes controversial issues like Ozian technology, the inner workings of Oz Magic, the BCF discussions, how far can an Oz book be from "Baum's vision" before it becomes "blasphemous", etc. _YELLOW SUBMARINE_ AND OZ: Has anyone seen the new "remastered" video of _Yellow Submarine_? Seeing it again after so many years got me thinking about parallels with Oz ( whatever it is, it always comes down to parallels with Oz for me :) )... There's the obvious resemblance between the Honcho Blue Meanie and Ruggedo (with music filling the "egg" niche). I also see echoes of the Wogglebug in Jeremy the Nowhere Man -- Bad puns along with being "Thouroughly Educated". (Has the Wogglebug composed a "hole" book??) And Pepperland itself so much resembles Oz in its utopian peace, love and beauty. ( But the aged Mayor makes me think it's fortunate that Oz has in Ozma a "new generation of leadership". :) ) -- Dave ===================================================================== = To: Dave Hardenbrook From: Ozzy Digest Subject: Ozzy Digest, 10-26-99 Cc: Bcc: Ozzy_Digest_Members X-Attachments: In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19991026172651.00e974d0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Persona: ===================================================================== = ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, OCTOBER 22 - 26, 1999 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ===================================================================== = Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:31:51 -0500 (EST) From: cc: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-30-99 > let Ozma know she was alive, or she might _really_ be liquidated the next > time. (After all, water wouldn't have destroyed the rest of Mombi's clothes > any more than her shoes.) That's not how it appears in illos for Wizard, and the text implies everything melted but the shoes. Scott ===================================================================== = Can anyone help this person? Please E-mail her privately... -- Dave ---- Forwarded message ---- From: Susan Ungaro To: "'DaveH47@mindspring.com'" Subject: ruby slippers Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:16:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Dave, I'm currently working on a show about the Ruby Slippers from the Wizard of Oz for E! Entertainment. I came across your website and you seem to be quite the Oz afficiando so I was hoping you would be able to help with a certain project. I'm trying to find references to the Ruby Slippers in Pop Culture, i.e. In David Lynch's "Wild at Heart" Laura Dern's character is wearing red shoes and taps her heels together in a "There's no place like home" fashion. Please let me know if I can give you a call. My number is 323-954-2947 and my email address is sungaro@eentertainment.com Hope to hear from you. Susan ===================================================================== = Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-15-99 Human Tots: There was an Italian movie star known as Toto, which is what I believe inspired the film _Toto the Hero_ http://us.imdb.com/Name?Tot%F2 There are other Totos in the IMDb as well. Scott ============================== Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! "Love is not a positive emotion that begins in us and ends in the positive response of someone else. Love is divine energy that comes from God and has no end." --Eric Butterworth ===================================================================== = From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" Subject: Ozzy Thoughts for the Day Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:25:53 PDT W. Baldwin: >This week's trivia question: > Who is William J. Harmstead, and what does he have to do with Oz? William J. Harmstead is the full name of Speedy's Uncle Billy, as given in _Speedy_. He is named after Thompson's own "Uncle Billy" (not really her uncle, IIRC), whose full name was William J. Hammer. David Hulan: >I suppose it would be possible for the Ragbad army to march off to Jinxland >despite the bottomless gulf. If Ozma decided to keep a serious eye on that >kingdom after it came to her attention in _Scarecrow_, it's quite plausible >that she'd install (or have the Wizard or Glinda install) a bridge over the >gulf so it would communicate with the rest of the kingdom. The gulf doesn't >seem to have been all that wide; after all, a spider web could span it. I >don't see this as a serious contradiction. (Though a few years ago I also >hypothesized that "marched off to Jinxland" might just be a metaphor >comparable to "took off for Timbuktu," not to be taken literally but just >meaning" heading out for parts unknown.") ******************SPOILERS FOR _GARDENER'S BOY_********************** In Phyllis Ann Karr's _Gardener's Boy_ (which, admittedly, is not part of the FF), there is a spell on the Great Gulf that stops bridges from being built across it. At the end of the book, this spell is lifted. The book seems to take place at a later date than _Grampa_, though. **************************END SPOILER******************************** Warren Baldwin again, referring to _Wizard_: >In the west lies the Winkie >country with a prevailing color of yellow, to the east the blue Munchkin >country, in the north the purple Gillikin country Actually, the Gillikin Country is never mentioned in _Wizard_. The only character who mentions the land of the north is the King of the Winged Monkeys, who says that Gayelette had a ruby palace there. This may be implying that Baum originally thought of the northern country as another red land, but we don't know this for sure. >Just at dark, they find a sign which states >"Emerald City 9 miles." This is the only place I can think of offhand in >the entire famous 45 where a distance is described with such unequivocal >definity. In _Gnome King_, Piecer and Scrapper see a sign that gives the distance to the Emerald City. I think it's around thirty-some miles, and this is after they pass the Tin Woodman's castle, IIRC. >Contrast this with the information given in the last part of >_Speedy_, which, if accepted without question, would result in a >north/south axis for Oz of -- are you ready for this? -- 3,200 miles! Only if Umbrella Island takes the straighest possible route from Big Enough Mountain to the Emerald City, that is. Thompson certainly never made Oz that big in any books involving land travel there; journeys from remote areas of the country to the Emerald City usually only took two or three days. >How much would you like to bet that the Winkie settlement around the castle >of >the old WWW has developed into a city and that the Emperor's new clothes -- >er, residence -- is on the site of the old castle, or close by? Sounds >pretty good to me. I figured that this castle was the same as the Wicked Witch's castle, although I don't know if Baum ever actually stated this. If he did, it was in _Road_. In an Oz manuscript on which I had been working, and may go back to someday when I have the time, the Scarecrow and some other characters pay a visit to the old castle and Winkie village, which were abandoned when the Emperor moved to his tin castle. For my last comment and question of the evening, my English history textbook, _The Making of England_, was written by someone named C. Warren Hollister. Wasn't there a member of the Oz Club by this name? He wrote that "Oz and the Fifth Dimension" essay, right? Nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ===================================================================== = From: "W. H. Baldwin" Subject: Geozify 3 Correction Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 00:34:31 PDT I just noticed a minor error in Geozify 3: At the end of the synopsis of Chapter 20, after they spend the night in the palace, it should say that they spend _Day 4_ in considering what course of action to follow, _not_ Day 3. This means that each day following this point should have 1 added to it. As we're concerned with geozify here, this is not a major fault, but insofar as possible I guess it's better to have the narrative right than wrong. W. Baldwin ===================================================================== = From: Ozmama@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:20:33 EDT Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-99 Justin R.: << P.S. Does anyone with a First Edition of GRAMPA IN OZ knows if there was ever a front color plate? Mine doesn't have one, but has all 12 in different parts of the book, but not in front. Perhaps a later First Edition would have it>> Nope! Justin, you're old enough, smart enough, and deeply enough into Oz to get a copy of _Bibliographia Oziana_. It has all kinds of info in it like the fact that _Grampa_ never had a frontispiece. It's well having. Order it from IWOC. W. Baldwin<> Uncle Bill/Billy is Speedy's uncle. His name is suspiciously close to that of R.P.T.'s Uncle Billy, a.k.a. William Harmstead. --Robin ===================================================================== = From: "Jeremy Steadman" Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:51:14 EST Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-99 RPT's and LFB's Oz: Perhaps these are two parallel universes--parallel Ozzes, wherein each is pretty similar to the other (and didn't really differ until the events of Royal Book). Just an idea, flame me if you will. Until a later Digest, Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/kivel99/ ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ===================================================================== = Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:29:31 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: old pictures of GRAMPA charset=ISO-8859-1 Tackling "the whole nine yards," Tyler Jones wrote: <> A theory new to me. MORE OF THE STRAIGHT DOPE by "Cecil Adams" catalogs proposed origins for the phrase in football; coal and cement trucks; burial plots; cloth for men's suits, women's gowns, and burial shrouds; and ships' sails. None came with much evidence. Indeed, the date of the phrase is misty. David Hulan wrote: <> I was reluctant to let go of my allusions. Finishing up GRAMPA, David Hulan wrote: <> Not a serious one, I agree, but a significant one if we're seeking clues to how Thompson probably went about composing GRAMPA. We can indeed come up with plausible ways to reconcile the two authors, but that just underscores the differences between them. In the same spirit, we can see the influence of KABUMPO when Thompson briefly writes Percy as Wag: "Don't you be so migh and highty" [17/179]. As for how Thompson might have gone about *reporting* GRAMPA as a historian, it seems significant that she twice uses the phrase, "As Dorothy told Ozma afterwards" [14/153, 18/193]. That implies that her information came through Ozma, or somehow from Ozma and Dorothy's conversations. In commenting on GRAMPA's art, I'm handicapped by not having a Reilly & Lee edition, though I understand one is on its way to me. I'll try to identify illustrations by means other than page numbers. On the "This Book Belongs To" page, the Woozy makes yet another appearance in the frontmatter of a book in which he plays little role. His shape must have made him easy and fun for Neill to draw. Thompson's text says Fumbo has a red beard [1/3], but Neill chose to draw his head clean-shaven in chapters 15 and 17. Of course, Thompson also says his body had only "stockinged feet" [1/6], and in chapter 1 Neill twice depicted it shod. Thompson says Bill is a "large reddish fowl" [3/26]. I always thought of him as black because he's cast-iron, but Neill's line drawings mostly show him in outline. What color is he in the book's color plates? Neill's ice princess at the start of chapter 13 seems prettier than Thompson described her. Finally, in the full-page line art in chapter 19, in which Grampa stands with a shovel, who are the men standing behind Grampa? The one in the foreground was identified by Jack Snow in WHO'S WHO as Gorba. So why does Grampa seem friendly to him? Why is the old soldier carrying a shovel? Where has his leg reappeared from? And who's the man behind them? (One possibility is the Lord High Humpus, whose best moment comes when "The wig of the Chief Justice rose in the air and turned around three times" [19/205-6].) For the last word on those mysteries, however, I return to chapter 3: "What do you mean, flying through this forest deceiving hungry travellers?" "I don't know what I mean," replied the weather cock calmly, "for I've only been alive since last night. What do you mean yourself, pray? Must everyone have a meaning like a riddle?" J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ===================================================================== = Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:28:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: the oz witch project THE OZ WITCH PROJECT (1999, 9 minutes, color and black and white video, Monkeys in Silk Productions, Directed by Michael Rotman) http://www.ozwitch.com A fun and inventive spoof of the oh-so popular Blair Witch Project, The Oz Witch Project follows the beloved characters from the Wizard of Oz and their quest to document the mystery of the Wicked Witch of the West. "In October of 1994, four friends disappeared in the woods near Emerald City while shooting a documentary called 'The Oz Witch Project.' A Year Later their footage was found." Dorothy, Tin Man, the Cowardly Lion and Scarecrow set off with cameras in hand to get to the bottom of the mystery of the Wicked Witch of the West. After the brainless Scarecrow looses the map to the yellow brick road, the group gets lost in the woods. In a hilarious sequence, in fighting begins with various profanities shouted at one another including much of the group ganging up on Scarecrow for screwing up. A frustrated Dorothy shouts out, "where the fuck is the yellow brick road?" What follows are parody scenes directly lifted from the Blair Witch Project, as the four wander the woods, finding strange cult-like signs. Tin Man and the Lion disappear apparently attacked by some evil munchkins while in their tent. Dorothy and Scarecrow set out, searching aimlessly for their missing friends. Distraught and scared, Dorothy sits on a rock and begins to sing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," only to be interrupted by Scarecrow who shouts, "Don't even fucking start." As expected, our four friends never find the yellow brick road or their way out of the woods. Using the now infamous camera movements and intensity of Blair Witch along with the costumes and personalities of the OZ characters, The Oz Witch Project manages to parody two films at the same time. A combination that delivers more laughs in 9 minutes than many so called "comedy" features. - Brian Bertoldo Read the more reviews on the site: http://www.filmthreat..com/Dailies-Today.htm ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 25 Oct 99 09:39:22 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: color in oz Justin Richards: Others will probably comment, but -- "Grampa" never had a color frontispiece. It had a b&w frontispiece drawing of Grampa, and 12 color plates scattered through the book. The IWOC's "Oz Bibliographica" book by Greene, Hanff, et al, is very useful to get if you're interested in such questions. (Peter, it's still available from the IWOC, isn't it?) Nathan DeHoff and J.L. Bell: RPT's "There is no snow in Oz" is probably similar to Baum's statements about the lack of horses (Sawhorse excepted) or chickens (Billina and offspring excepted). The "narrative voice" usually claims to be reporting information provided by communication with Ozites or Oz visitors, and can be as forgetful and otherwise unreliable as they are. "No" claims should perhaps always be translated as "None, so far as I know/remember, and certainly not many." Jeremy Steadman, J.L. Bell, and Tyler Jones: Like J.L., I remember reading that the origin of "the whole nine yards" is unknown. Possibilities such as the "ammunition belt" one Tyler mentions haven't been provable. In the line of "possible but unprovable," I'm fond of Manly Wade Wellman's "John the Ballad-singer" stories based on Appalachian folklore. In one of them, the villain sings, "And I'll weave nine yards of other cloth/ To make a robe for John," and John interprets that as a shroud. Ruth Berman ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:41:34 -0500 From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 10-21-99 Justin: >Was it Baum or Thompson who stated "Oz has always been a peaceful and >prosperus country without any fighting or wars?" For the Hoppers and Horners >have had lots of wars, both in PATCHWORK GIRL OF OZ and THE ROYAL BOOK OF >OZ. I'm not sure if either of them said that in so many words. Clearly it's not true; besides the Hoppers and Horners there were the Flatheads and Skeezers in _Glinda_, there was a fair bit of fighting in _Wizard_ (though probably one wouldn't describe Dorothy's expedition against the WWW as a "war"), there was Jinjur's revolution in _Land_, the Mudgers raided their neighbors until Glinda restricted them to their own country, Grampa fought 900-odd battles, Mogodore appears to have fought the other barons, and there are lots of soldiers mentioned in other Thompson books who presumably wouldn't have been needed if there weren't at least the possibility of fighting. >Anyone know if Books of Wonder plan to release any new books either by >Emerald City Press or what? I don't know if BoW has any new ECP books currently in preparation, but I'm fairly sure that they're still willing to consider new MSS. However, the MS needs to satisfy Peter Glassman, which isn't all that easy, so it's hard to guess when or whether a new one will appear. Warren: Excellent analysis of the geozifical data in _Land_. A few additional comments: > Chapter 5. Still day 1. Just at dark, they find a sign which states >"Emerald City 9 miles." This is the only place I can think of offhand in >the entire famous 45 where a distance is described with such unequivocal >definity. In _Handy Mandy_ Keretaria is described as being "a hundred leagues north of the Sapphire City." This is pretty specific, but is, as I've mentioned before, almost certainly an error, since it would make the Munchkin country (and therefore Oz) at least 300 miles north-south, and probably considerably more. My personal opinion is that Thompson (or an editor at R&L) confused "leagues" with "furlongs," which would be a much better fit for the Haff-Martin map and keep travel times plausible. Another useful point one can derive from this item is a reasonable estimate of what Baum thought was the distance a child on foot could cover in a given time. Tip awakens at daybreak; we don't know the latitude of Oz or the season of the year, but since pumpkins were ripe it's probably not far from the autumnal equinox and so daybreak is probably near enough 6 AM. If Tip thinks they can cover nine miles by noon (and in fact he does, though Jack and the Sawhorse go much faster) then that gives a rough rate for a boy walking for an extended tim of 1.5 mph. This is probably a bit faster than Dorothy could go in _Wizard_, but should be in the right general ballpark. > it's only about a 2-day walk from where Tip and Mombi lived to >the EC. That's not very far! Not by modern standards with automobiles, etc., but it appears that Tip was walking a total of about 24 hours - maybe 22, subtracting the stops for breakfast and to animate the Sawhorse, and probably for lunch though it's not mentioned - so at 1.5 mph we're looking at about 33 miles. Because at first he took various paths to make it difficult for Mombi to follow him, he probably didn't go straight toward the EC, so as the crow flies the distance is more likely in the 25-30 mile range. And it's pretty consistent with your estimates from _Wizard_; if the EC is at the exact center of Oz, then the desert is presumably about a 3-day walk from the EC in the north. Mombi's place is probably not due north of the EC, so it might be about halfway from the latitude of the EC to the desert. >And since they lived in the mountains, there >must be quite a view from the EC off to the north. Purple mountains' >majesty indeed. Depends on the mountains, surely. If they're like the Rockies or Cascades or Alps, then sure, the view of the mountains from 25-30 miles away would be spectacular. But "mountain" is a term that's used pretty loosely. For instance, near my ancestral home town in Tennessee there's a rather rugged hill that's called "Horse Mountain" - but its peak is only a little over 1000 feet above sea level, and rather less than that above the surrounding valleys. At the time he wrote _Land_ I don't think Baum had ever seen the western mountains; he was probably thinking of mountains more like those of central New York and northwest Pennsylvania, which are typically only a couple of thousand feet above the surrounding countryside. Mountains that size wouldn't be much more than irregularities on the horizon from 25-30 miles away. Judging from the fact that a view of mountains to the north from the EC is never mentioned anywhere in the books, it seems more likely that such relatively low mountains are intended. The problem with the flight of the Gump from the jackdaws' nest to Glinda's palace is much easier to reconcile if one assumes that (a) during the night the Gump curved around until he was flying east-southeast, or even east by south, rather than due south, and that (b) when the Scarecrow thought they were flying north they were really flying west-northwest or west by north. (If the sun had been visible at the time they would all have known roughly which way was north, so it probably was overcast. The Scarecrow was therefore probably just reversing the direction they'd come based on landmarks; since he thought they'd been flying south through the night he'd think they were flying north as they retraced their path.) This would place the jackdaws' nest east of the desert opposite the southeast corner of the Munchkin country; when they crossed the desert they would thus end up over the Munchkin country, but would then fairly quickly cross into the Quadling country. And if they were flying west-northwest at the time then to get to Glinda's palace they'd only need to alter their course from west-northwest to west-southwest - about 45 degrees, which wouldn't be inconsistent with "altered slightly." (If they were flying west by north and altered to west by south it would only be 22.5 degrees - two compass points, which fits "slightly" even better.) > The journey of the Gump is impossible if you accept the Thompson universe >of perfectly triangular subdivisions. I don't think Thompson ever says the subdivisions of Oz are "perfectly triangular," just that they are "triangular." According to a guidebook I had for my last European trip, the French often refer to their country as "the hexagon," although obviously its borders aren't straight lines. I expect the Oz "triangles," and the "oblong" nature of the entire country, are similarly irregular along their borders, but overall the country and the subdivisions have the general shape described. On the other hand, your analysis certainly could equally well be right. It depends on how much faith you put in the Scarecrow's opinion that they're flying due north out of the nest. The fact that Baum says specifically "at least, that was the Scarecrow's opinion" seems to me to be a reason to believe that it's not likely to be true, and a course alteration of more than 90 degrees from due north to at least west by south, if not west-southwest, doesn't really fit with "altered slightly," but it's arguable either way. >In our own desert southwest, there are rivers, or at least >riverbeds which flood during the infrequent rainy seasons. There are major rivers, for that matter - the Gila and the Colorado, for two. > South of Oz, on the other side of the desert, there are other countries, >strange and "unfamiliar" countries. Oz is not alone! But we're not told the >nature of or, indeed, anything else about them. Except that at least one of them uses dollars for currency. (Jackdaws may fly longish distances in migrating - I don't know about them specifically, but many closely related birds do - but they're unlikely to carry paper money with them for long distances, so presumably those bills came from places fairly near the nest.) As I said at the beginning, I think your analysis was excellent. Most of my comments consist of suggesting alternate possibilities because it would be boring to quote long passages of your post and say "I agree." I think everything you said makes good sense and may well be right; I just think that some of your conclusions aren't the only possibilities. David Hulan ===================================================================== = Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:25:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: (fwd) Chuck Jones OZ animations on DVD! (fwd) I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but I was just going through the new "Wizard of OZ" DVD and found it included 9 Chuck Jones animated links from the 1967 ABC "Off to See the Wizard" series! ===================================================================== = Date: Tue, 26 Oct 99 08:40:49 CST From: "Ruth Berman" Subject: harry potter in oz There was a fine essay by Judy Blume, headed "Is Harry Potter Evil?" in the October 22 NY "Times." She comments that it's ironic that zealots keep trying to ban her books, in which "it's reality that's seen as corrupting. With Harry Potter, the perceived danger is fantasy," and wonders "where does that leave the kids?" Another quote: "My husband and I like to reminisce about how, when we were 9, we read straight through L. Frank Baum's Oz series, books filled with wizards and witches. And you know what those subversive tales taught us? That we loved to read! In those days I used to dream of flying. I may have been small and powerless in real life, but in my imagination I was able to soar." She also points out that these ridiculous attacks on books should not be laughed off -- ridiculous though they may be, they present a serious danger to trying to offer books to kids that will show that reading can be both enlightening and fun. Ruth Berman ===================================================================== = Date: Tue, 26 Oct 99 14:17:42 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things WITCHES: Scott wrote: >That's not how it appears in illos for Wizard, and the text implies >everything melted but the shoes. I think the clothes not melting is an MGM thing... (In fairness, I note that many editions don't have Denslow's illo of the Witch melting... My edition when I was a kid didn't have any illos of either the WWW or the GWN *at all*, even though it claimed to be "unabridged"!) Nathan wrote: >Actually, the Gillikin Country is never mentioned in _Wizard_. The only >character who mentions the land of the north is the King of the Winged >Monkeys, who says that Gayelette had a ruby palace there. Doesn't the GWN mention to Dorothy that she "rules in the North"? "DIMENSION JUMP": Jeremy write: >Perhaps these are two parallel universes--parallel Ozzes, wherein >each is pretty similar to the other (and didn't really differ until >the events of Royal Book). Just an idea, flame me if you will. I think there are many parallel Oz universes... That's why I think there's too much fuss made about "heretical" Oz books. There's an LFB Oz, RPT Oz, March Laumer Oz, Dave Hardenbrook Oz... I even think there's a Gregory Macguire Oz universe, though I wouldn't want to live there. (The _Wicked_ universe is probably a bit like Red Dwarf's "mirror universe" in which Rimmer is a nice guy and Kochanski is a dumb blonde...) "NINE YARDS": I guess there are as many conflicting stories as to the origin of this as of "Mind your P's and Q's"... BANNING HARRY POTTER: There seem to be many who are very frightened of fantasy... The Montessori Method (at least the version of it that I was exposed to in kindergarten) is staunchly opposed to children using their imaginations, lest it warp their minds. REQUEST: Does anyone know where I can find L. Sprauge DeCamp's _Sir Harold and the Nome King_? REPORT ON SOUTH WINKIE: We had the South Winkie Convention Saturday and it was great as always! In fact it was better than I expected, since it was slated as a celebration of 60 years of the film, so I was expecting it to be a 99% MGM day. But I was pleasantly suprised. Gita Dorothy Morena (Daughter of the late Ozma Baum Mantele) gave a talk about her mother, who seems like she was a wonderful person. Then we had lunch. I sat at the same table with Langly Brandt, whose company I always enjoy. After lunch I showed my Fly-Thru computer animation of the Ozian continent. Everyone liked it, and some suggested that I offer it for sale. Then Kurt Steinruck and Jenny Cariker performed a few scenes from the _Wizard of Oz_ play (Jenny is Dorothy and Kurt is the best WWW since Margaret Hamilton herself!), and Jenny sang "Over the Rainbow" _a cappela_. After that we had the Oz auction, where I finally secured a copy of _Queen Zixi of Ix_ and then we went for dinner. In all I had a good time as always. -- Dave ===================================================================== =